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Sunday, November 30, 2008
Paul Jacob :: Townhall.com Columnist
In open contests, voters beat politicians
by Paul Jacob
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Well, it’s all over but the inauguration. With the political season finished, the ephemeral divisions of society can be downplayed long enough to view the enduring conflict, the real war. It’s not Republican versus Democrat or conservative versus liberal. It’s the political class versus the citizenry.

That is, it’s us, the people, versus them, the politicians . . . and their hired functionaries.

The Democratic and Republican parties are merely two clubs that serve up confusion so that we don’t realize the nature of our true enemies — or the lack of any meaningful choice.

Now, before we get too hasty, we should all remind ourselves that politicians are almost certainly necessary. A few will even prove themselves good and virtuous. But power tempts, power corrupts, and politicians are in the power biz. Follow the logic.

This logic leads to the requirements of limited government, to prevent politicians from doing things that they would otherwise, sans limits, be inclined to do.

The Constitution was designed as a set of limits. Alas, most of its limits have fallen by the wayside. So that’s why one type of limit provides such a good marker for the beginning of the people’s campaign to take control of government: term limits.

Term limits serve to shorten the time elected citizens must endure near the sulphurous pits of power, allowing a citizen to stay “citizen legislator” and not morph into a professional politician. Term limits do not ensure this — they merely give us a better chance. Evidence suggests that, without term limits, we have little or no chance at all.

So, the last election has brought us united governments under the Democrats. We’ll see where that gets us.

Meanwhile, the last election also showed us something about the larger perspective, the war between citizens and politicians. It showed us that, in open contests, the voters beat the politicians. When voters actually get to cast their ballots directly for or against the policy of term limits, they tend to choose term limits.

In most places where term limits were being attacked, or terms extended, and where voters had the responsibility and the opportunity to make the choice, term limits won.

True, in New York City, term limits suffered a setback this November . . . but not because of anything voters did at the ballot box. It was a loophole-exploiting power grab by Mayor Bloomberg and the city council members. Eager to serve extra terms, they unilaterally weakened the city’s term limits law. Regular New Yorkers were not consulted.

But turn your attention, instead, to South Dakota, where career politicians posted a measure, Referendum J, to repeal state legislative term limits. (Oh, how politicians hate term limits!) Here, voters were actually consulted about whether they wanted to keep the law they had passed in 1992.

And yes, they did want to keep it. Back in ’92, the law passed with a 64 percent majority. An even bigger majority, 76 percent, said No to repealing the limits this year. A South Dakota group called Don’t Touch Term Limits had gotten the anti-repeal message out with a simple slogan: NO WAY! VOTE NO ON J!

South Dakota was not the sole victory, either. Term limits were at issue in the state of Louisiana and various cities and counties in California, Colorado, Florida, Pennsylvania, and Texas. In almost every case, the supporters of term limits won the day.

One setback for term limits, however, occurred in San Antonio, where after previous failed attempts, the mayor and city council convinced voters in a relatively fair election to loosen the limit from two two-year terms (that is, four years), to four two-year terms (eight years).

But most contests defended existing limits, or expanded new limits. In Louisiana, for instance, voters passed new limits on the terms of statewide boards and commissions.

Many local referendums to weaken or chuck term limits were soundly defeated. As Steve Moore explained in the Wall Streeet Journal’s online diary, “In localities ranging from State College, Pennsylvania to Tracy, California and Memphis, Tennessee, voters approved term limits by two-to-one margins. Eight of the ten largest U.S. cities now have term limits.”

Long live term limits! Short live, terms.

Term limitation is a very important reform, though it certainly won’t by itself provide all the discipline governments require. What the issue does accomplish, with its near universal popularity, is a clear demonstration of the degree to which voters are in charge.

When voters get to decide the issue directly, and aren’t mugged by people like Mayor Bloomberg, voters choose term limits. Where there are no such limits — in Congress and most state legislatures — those in power can simply trump the people.

Term limits provide a much-needed political barometer.

Now back to your regularly scheduled salute to President-Elect Barack Obama.

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About The Author
Paul Jacob is President of Citizens in Charge. His daily Common Sense commentary appears on the Web, via e-mail, and on radio stations across America.
 
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How about long term-limits?
Why don't we enact term limits of 30 years in the House and 30 years in the Senate? That would still leave room for "career politicians" to gain seniority while at the same time prevent them from being forever "part of the building".

Amen and Hallelujah
Our citizen representatives were supposed to make a living in the private sector working alongside their constituents and sacrifice for the good of the country by spending a few months each of a few years in Congress or state legislatures. Limited government made that possible.

I support meaningful term limits that not only limit the number of terms a citizen can serve in an office, but also demand that that citizen spend some time making money in the private sector away from government before taking another elected office. That means, no lobbying jobs, government contract jobs, or lawyering.

Call me a dreamer...

http://freedomistheanswer.blogspot.com/

TERM LIMITS
TERM LIMITS IS WHAT ALL OFFICE HOLDERS NEED FOR GETTING THEM OUT OF THE PEOPLES BUSINESS. TWELVE YEARS IN CONGRESS(TERM IN THE SENATE AFTER SERVING 3 HOUSE TERMS) THE BEGINNING OF THE FOURTH HOUSE TERM WOULD MAKE MEMBER INELIGIBLE TO BE ELECTED TO A TERM IN THE SENATE.THIS WOULD SAVE ON THE COMPENSATION PACKAGES THEY HAVE TO A REASONABLE SALARY.

DavidMac:
Actually, lawyers are need in legislation so that they can arrange loopholes so their firm can get rich getting people off before everyone else learns it is there.

The laymen have a tendency to write laws that are too simply for the average person. I.e., they would write something like, "Thou shalt not kill." The lawyer, thinking of his pocket book, would continue to write, "... except when ..."

Which is the best for office.

OBAMA WILL TALK TO PRESS
OBAMA WILL TALK TO THE PRESS BECAUSE HE HAVE TO HEAR HIMSELF TALK.

Charles from AK has it right:
"Term limits also needed for the exempt employees. Buraucrats, like the ones in Dept of State, tend to end up running their departments to suit themselves."

I totally agree: Term limits for everyone in government. No more than 12 years suckling at the public teat, and then it's back to the productive world for you (or back to school for you, if you've forgotten--or never knew--how to do anything productive). And nobody can become a lobbyist within ten years of leaving Congress. These actions would also solve the dilemma stated by Sheldon in #7 above.

The idea should be that people get experience in the real world, share that experience in a government post (if they so desire) for a short time, and then return to the real world again. (And no, elections don't equal term limits. It's not that people are too stupid to vote the bad guys out, but it's more like the reason that someone stated above: "Congress as a whole is awful, but my guy is just fine." Get enough people across the country voting for "their guy" and you'll end up with exactly what we have now.)

Davidmac ...
yup ... just what is needed. More abundant and obscure codification engineered for the guys who write it to weedle their clients through. Yup! Lawyers are undoubtedly the finest specimans of humanity on the planet. You've got to love a guy who can argue either side of a child molestation case and figure himself above the silly rubes who harbor old fashioned prejudices.
Somehow, more laws just aren't too appealing to all those little people that you appear to denigrate as does the Lord Messiah Obama.

Bet you don't have calloused hands.

No$
wish that I had said that. Totally clear and to the point. "We" are the problem as "we" are adolescents. Adult development doesn't even appear to be a concious goal anymore.

The Real Story
Term limits works for some of the people some of the time. However...within the story is the mention of : "That is it is us the people, versus them, the politicians - and their hired functionaries." WE the people cannot agree on the day of the week. THEM have been empowered by the impotent WE to simplify the argument.
Ok now we have a topic. The democratic republic barely works to the satisfaction of its constituents. Conservative values apply in the continuous natural selection and winnowing toward the elite group we call representatives. All of the candidates have something that most of us dont. Most of all they want to do the job. The main problem is that there are too few people willing or qualified (vetting is like the dunking stool) to run for office.
Along the way most of THEM have discovered that they dont need WE for most of the term in office. WE have discovered that THEM are self serving and have survival instincts like veryone else. Question: who is willing to vote for an average guy for National Office? Someone who works as a County school superintendant. A hair dresser? An engineer? A teacher? Regular people. WE the people are the problem. WE think so much of our own posterior that we are not willing to elect someone to the club that WE could not get into. Why elevate that guy -who is he -what did he ever do?
What he didnt do is aspire to become ELITE, that very thing that Jefferson warned against, that Eisenhower warned against. If WE the people are to ever have a government that is like us then we have to elect some of US. That or shut the hell up and follow the ones that are elected.
Any thoughts on: Proportional representation may help encourage better candidates to emerge and stay interested in serving for the public good.

MacWell (NJ)
The reason there are lawyers in the legislatures is that they need to be able to write laws. To do that task, they must know what the law is.

I defy you to show me a truck driver or shoe salesman who could sit down and write a cogent piece of legislation involving corporate finance or FCC licenses.

Even a smart layman would have such a steep learning curve that nothing would be accomplished. He'd spend all his time learning the law and studying the previously passed laws.

Don't mistake political ideology for ability.

Term limits
I live in California and have seen the results of term limits (I voted for them, to my embarrasement). They are not pretty. There has probably been a drop in IQ of 10 points and a huge decrease in understanding the complex problems facing the state. Lobbiests have even more power, because there is so much less in house knowledge. What I have concluded is that term limits do not compensate for the stupipidity of the voters that elect these dreges to office.

Only Term Limits Will Save America!
Now that politicians grant themselves huge salaries, the best free medical care in the world, and fat retirement packages, they will do anything including becoming common street criminals and traitors to remain in office.

If term limits are not imposed upon these thugs, we the people will be forced to take up arms and remove them with bullets.

Term limits also needed
for the exempt employees. Buraucrats, like the ones in Dept of State, tend to end up running their departments to suit themselves.

Two Things
Legislator transparency and legislator consequences. We need to work for transparency in all federal legislator behavior and make it abundantly clear to them that we will throw them into the streets when they behave contrary to the interests of their constituents. The best example of this recently was the 2007 grassroots democratic (small d intended) uprising when the senate attempted to pass the amnesty bill. This should be the model for the future in fighting the Fairness Doctrine, Union Card Check and any renewed amnesty efforts.

Term Limits...
would be automatic if we no longer supported these criminals by supplying them with life-long perks such as huge retirements, health benefits that none of us will ever have, pay raises whenever they feel the need to enact them, lavish travel benefits on our dime. Let them work for a set salary like most of us do.

The 50 states and term limits
The people you know the taxpayers in this country should have the inalienable right as set forth in the Bill of Rights to change term limits for all levels of government. There would be no computerized voting machines unless there is a printing device to record all votes accurately for a ballot recount if necessary. An armored guard of two persons with machine guns to kill on contact to guard the person inside the locked room and to protect our right to vote. The guards would be automatically be free from arrest but, if they're contacted prior to this person entering the area to provide supplies and food then they will be subject to arrest and they will be killed if they are not acquitted by a jury of their peers. Absentee ballots will only be accepted in person with an a state approved identification. ACORN or its other out to get the vote organizations would need to bus all of their prospective voters to the County Board of Elections and the same state identification rules would apply. Dead people wouldn't be eligible to vote nor would illegal aliens either. Provisional Ballot would be allowed with a state approved form of identification.

term limits are a very good thing - - -
Lord Acton said it best. "Power corrupts". 'emport' (#20) said it next best, we need improved institutions to protect our freedoms and liberties from our own power hungry human nature. Term limits is one of those protections.

Eliminating gerrymandered districts, designed to keep pols perpetually in office is another. The law should insist on the compactness of districts; such as legally limiting the ratio of the length of the perimeter of a district to its area.

And then there are the anticonstitutional restrictions on political speech and funding, that give office-holders and advantage over chanllengers.

We are in danger of losing our precious democracy and freedom; to a band of new wannabe aristocracy. Cheers.


term limits
Twelve years is enough time for them to make a mess of things and then blame anyone they can. I am so sick of them thinking they are stars with their dyed hair and make-up and who can hog the camera. Why can't people see that they are not there for us but for the power they get. Term limits for everyone.

Term Limits for KKKByrd

I am absolutely in favor of term limits for everyone.

I don’t want a politician who knows how to get a law passed.

I don’t want a doctor who has spent the past 6 years practicing medicine, and now that he knows what he needs to know, he must stop practicing. After a football player has practiced, that’s when you want him to play, but not a doctor, right?

Make sure that the mechanic who works on my car has only been in the business for a few months.

Well, let’s get serious. I want Term Limits for any politician I do not agree with. I suppose you want the same, and that’s where the problem is.

For every KKKByrd that we want out, there’s ‘ol what’s his name, who we want to stay.


TERM LIMITS 4EVER SO 2 SPEAK
Let's apply some common sense here...you are wise to judge an issue by the group(s) strongest against it...in the case of term limits its our 9% approval congress.

Tell us that the founders wanted these thieves in their becoming millionaires over 20-50 year careers, tell us they deserve the best retirement system in the country, tell us so we can laugh in your face.
When the secular socialists (modern democrats) sue and fight term limits I know where I am by default. As God, I would impose 12 year terms in Congress total service.

Those arguing for the "experience" make me laugh. Experience in overspending, vote-buying and stealing all you can before you lose-retire to become a lobbyist at 3 times your congressional salary.

Twelve years and go home. Just go home, you have done all the damage we can stand by then.

The rest is fog and baloney. We are not fools.

Change Needed
American's have been duped long enough. I say it is time for Term Limits in Washington. These Power Hungry Idiots are the ones that are ruining America. When are We The People going to step up and make our Politicians responsible for their duty to We The People and not the Lobby and Special Interest Groups. This has to stop or we will get flushed down the toilet by these Power Hungry Idots. I say America it is time for We The People to take back our Gov't and put Men and Women in office that care about We The People.

term limits
Power corrupts! That is a fact. In my area we voted county commission term limits. It took about 12 years for it to implememted. Now we have reduced the size of the commision and they are threatening to sue in court. They do not give up easily. When you are in power, it seems to be a fact that it belongs to the person in power and you had better not try to take it away. Poweer corrupts absolute pwoer corrupts absolutely. Heard that somewhere. Why do Senators not have to step down to run for president? I bet fewer would run if this were ever the case.

Term limits
A President can serve only two terms. Of course, Bill Clinton thought it would be a good idea if, after two terms, he could be out of office and return at another time. No reason for legislators to serve 30-40 years -- they become too powerful. Surely there are a lot of people who could serve without their egos being fed by years and years of re-election. A lot of voters keep them in office because they can count on pork and hand-outs.

Can democracy survive?
I interpret almost everything involving politics and economics through the prizm of human behavior. Historically, human nature predictably influenced much of what is perceived as negative to mankind. In a pure democracy, over time, voters will milk the system to their own advantage. This behavior rewards immediate gratification but eventually destroys the very system that allowed them to behave accordingly. The genius of those who struggled to put together the ideas and structure of the constitution was an understanding of the behavioral weaknesses of human nature. They put in place barriers in order to prevent human nature from destroying itself. However, with the ratification of the 17th amendment in April of 1913, a major barrier was eliminated. The impetus behind this amendment was an ideological thought process which was a manifestation of the progressive movement of the late 1800s and the early 1900s. However, ideology is simply an emotional thought process as opposed to a rational cognitive thought process and the results of such thinking are invariably negative. Now we have immense government debt, career politicians, lobbiests coming out of our ears and a political system sinking faster than a rock dropped in a lake. Maybe we just need to forego ideological purity concerning democracy and repeal the 17th amendment. At least that way we can reestablish some form of discipline over human behavior.

Voter Education also needed
Besides term limits a much greater voter education is needed. For example how many voters really understand the well proven fact that Less Taxes means Greater Government Revenue; or how many understand the Government hand-outs go against the saying "There is no such thing as a Free-Lunch". For that matter how many really have a basic knowledge of the constitution and the government. and on and on I could write up at least 100 items on which a majority of the voters are totally ignorant and that ignorance is exploited by the Political Class with the help of the Down Stream (Sludge & Sewage filled) Media (DSM which is commonly referred to as MSM)

For more information on Civic Literacy see: http://www.americancivicliteracy.org/

Voters Can't Decide...
Thanks to the dumbing down of the educational systems across the country. Politicians and the MSM have seen to that.
Insight, I like your idea of one Congress critter for every 30,000 people. It would be a lot harder for lobbiests to 'grease the wheels' of government. Congressmen would have to be more responsive to the people who elected them, just as long as we ban lawyers from holding office, lobbying or consulting any part of the Federal government.

Already have term limits
Paul, we already have term limits. It's called "the Vote".

When you call for term limits, what you are really saying is "the American voter is too stupid to understand who is the best person to put in office, so we'll mandate by law that the incumbent can only serve temporarily and then, WHETHER HE IS GOOD OR BAD, we'll fire him and hire a new unknown person."

Does that make sense, Paul? You admitted that "A few will even prove themselves good and virtuous." You would fire those good and virtuous people and take a chance on electing another Hitler?

Humans have a universal characteristic: they're human. They have faults. Some, like Clinton, deliberately commit felonious acts and try to cover it up for personal reasons. Others, like Obama, simply lack the courage to tell the public who they really are. They are both, like us all, flawed human beings.

We can't legislate perfection in government, but if you insist, let's give politicians 10 years. That will allow their true stripes to show through and allow for continuity of government (institutional memory is another thing you haven't thought about; it prevents legislatures from re-inventing the wheel).

Paul, the best law you can pass is one that requires politicians to actually read the bills they will vote on.

Voters Decide
Logically, the voters have the power to impose a term limit, especially if we had an educated electorate. Unfortunately, it seems, We, The People, are not as smart as we need to be. Elections are more a popularity contest than they are about the issues and can be greatly influenced by the dollar.


You guys are going about ....
this wrong. Most people are complacent or agenda driven. Class envy works. It is time to remind the electorate that in every way and every day, the elected are really not elected but are a class of rich guys who in the end; win, lose or draw; take care of their own regardless of what they say for the cameras.

Convince the public that their raises should be voted on. COnvince the public that it needs a speacial prosecutors office eternally in tact to investigate seeming inproprieties. Convince the public that the agencies and friends of the polticos should always be open to suspicion.
In effect good old fashioned, unapolegetic Stalinist tactics should always and at every minute be used against government agents.
Why? They in every way and every day are mounting the power to use them against the citizenry.

I don't know that it would be such a bad thing to hear the guillotine slide between its rails and the sudden stop of the block against the chocks as it removed Barny or Chucks head.
Insufferable liars and bores that they are the media would have to scramble for sound bites from other would be demagogues.

Fact is that few care and most can be bought for a bag of trifles.

term limits
Are not the problem.Ignorant voters are the problem.Case in point Ted Kennedy.

We need term limits
Why is it that term limits for the Presidency is constitutional, but for the congress it's unconstitutional? Doesn't make sense to me.

IMO the senate should be limited to two consecutive terms and the House to six consecutive terms. Then they take a term off. If they want to run again after that, it's OK. But they have to take a break.

In the military we rotated officers between jobs about once a year, and between duty stations (geographical locations) about every three years. There was a certain "reinventing of the wheel" involved, but that was more than offset by a fresh set of eyes, and renewed energy and vigor. IMO anyone in one job too long becomes complacent and if the job permits (like it does for pols), hubristic and corrupt.

In summary, continuity is much overrated.

now hold on a minute...
You know how hard it is to get a good man to run for office? Do you realize how few and far between they are?
Sorry to disagree with so many, but I have a pretty good bunch here in Texas District 8, and would hate to see them go because they were forced by law rather than removed by the will of the people they serve.
I agree with the earlier comment "Term Limits = Elections"
The problem there is an educated electorate, and that's where motivated voters come in....

roadmaster:
To say a 10,000 member Congress is unworkable is insufficient. Why is it unworkable?

The idea accomplishes the most essential element of republicanism. It diffuses power.

With many venues around the country that easily hold 50,000 plus people, and electronic voting processes already in place, I see no problem with such a large body.

Term limits and more
In days of old, people ran for office because they wanted to serve America, and it's interests, now, people run to have a career for themselves, big difference. America will never be as great as it once was until "we the people" return all of the lawyers back to private practice. Why do we elect lawyers who we know can't even answer yes or no in less than 3 paragraphs. We wonder why written explanations have to be 600 pages long, why the average person can't understand them? Simple, because 20 or more lawyers get together and write them. Not only do we need term limits for all national elected officials, but, lawyers need not apply. I defy anyone to explain to me why lawyers somehow make the best choice. They are trained to lie, or hide the truth. Wake up, "we the people" are asleep while America is being legislated out of existence.

Sheldon
I heard of what you speak before, and it's one of the reasons I don't support term limits.

We need to do something, but you are a witness that term limits don't work as intended.

Huh? Unintended consequences, imagine that...

You are correct, I-truth,
in that we already have term limits, but when politicians became a professional class, they devised ways to get around them, mainly buying as many votes as possible using our own tax dollars against us. Another successful strategy they've employed; make politics so slimy and sleazy, it'll turn off otherwise good citizens and they won't go to the polls.

People always vote for the known crook, rather than the unknown crook. They figure their guy is okay, but the rest of us need to get rid of our crook. Since most voters think this way, we keep getting the same jerks re-elected. We need to work harder to connect for them the gubmint they despise with the scum THEY KEEP VOTING FOR!!!

Voters are also convinced there is no difference between the parties. Guess what? In the last few years, there really wasn't a dime's worth of difference between the lib-lite repubs and full on lib dhimms.

Conservatives must push the repubs back to the right and stand for smaller gubmint, lower taxes and strong defense. When given a choice between a moderate (liberal) R or a conservative D, voters go with conservative almost every time. Obama beat McCain because he went to his right, which wasn't that hard to do.

I believe your suggestion for 1 rep per 30,000 would be unworkable - giving us 10,000 representatives in Congress. What a fiasco that would be!

I would have never believed that in my lifetime, the collective intelligence of my country would be so diminished that they would vote for the very same socialism which has failed miserably everywhere it's been tried. While Europe pulls back from their stupid policies of the last 50 years, we're lining up like a bunch of welfare queens.

Welcome to the USSA.

Term Limits
We've had them in LA and in California for years; they suck. Why? because we already had term limits, we just called them by a different name, "Elections".

I am a registered lobbyist in LA City, LA County and the State of California. I've been living and working with term limits for years. here's what I know:

"Term Limits" empower two types of folks, lobbyists and civil servants.

Lobbyists, because the electeds are always having to raise more money for the next office, and civil servants because they just wait them out and don't respond to duly elected representatives like they used to.

We no longer have statesmen (and stateswomen) we now have just politicians.

Nam65-66:
Your idea of limiting Supreme Court Justices' terms in office is interesting. I do not think I've ever heard that proposed before. It's seems worth thinking about.

On the other hand the Supreme Court is not really the main problem. The main problem is Congress. I think the only way to cure that is to remove some of the power from the office by returning to the original apportionment of about 30,000 citizens per legislator.


We already have term limits:
2 years for Congress, 6 years for the Senate, 4 years for POTUS.

It is not for lack of limited terms that our nation is failing!

The problem with term limits...
...The Supreme Court has ruled that,for the Federal government,term limits are unconstitutional.So the Constitution has to be amended.That requires that the House and Senate have to have super majorities to propose an amendment.It may have a good chance to be approved by the State legislatures,but not by the professional politicians in the House and Senate.

Forget about it!

I have long advocated...
...term limits for the Supreme Court justices.I recognize we need some continuity on the court,but lifetime is absurd in a democracy.

I think a ten year term for Supreme Court members would be sufficient,stagard so that a president can nominate one each year,as one retires each year.The legal profession can consider it a crowning achievement to a life dedicated to the law.

That way every president can nominate at least one member, very indirectly reflecting the will of the people.The Senate would still have to advise and consent.There have been presidents who have not nominated a Supreme Court justice.I believe (but not sure)that Jimmy Carter was the last president who did not nominate a Justice.

It is not a perfect system,but nothing touched by Man is perfect.

I can think of a few...
...reasons to have term limits. Kennedy, Biden, Byrd, McCain, and Specter to name just a few.

Term Limits would have saved us

Term limits would have saved us from the economic collasp caused by Rep. Barney Frank and Sen. Chris Dodd.
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