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Sunday, March 02, 2008
Kevin McCullough :: Townhall.com Columnist
Obama: America's first Gay President?
by Kevin McCullough
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If William Jefferson Clinton was America's first "black" president, could it be that Barack Obama is positioning himself to be the nation's first "gay" president?

His supporters have argued vehemently for months that Barack Obama does not represent the interest of the radical homosexual activists. Chicago "South-side" radio talk show hosts declare with confidence that Senator Obama has said he would oppose the redefining of marriage to include unions that only the imagination could cook up. Obama has blindsided black clergy across America with the con-game that they should not worry about his views on homosexuality.

He has uttered a "Praise the Lord" at the side of Gospel uber-star Rev. Donnie McClurkin, who himself was sexually abused by a homosexual and thusly forced to struggle with the issue in his own life at times. Obama has gone from church rally to church rally making vague references to God's power, and God's purposes - while never defining one ounce of what any of it means.

Yet as someone who has followed his career since long before he was a national stage player, I have warned that his aggressive support for the radical homosexual activist agenda in America is a part of the overall picture of who he is.

In this way he may be more "gay" than Clinton was "black" - and by a wide margin at that.

For all the shell game that Obama was able to juggle in the run for President to date on the issue of his real, underlying views on the radical homosexual agenda - this week he removed all doubts.

In an alarmingly pointed written statement Obama signed his named to the personal promise of greater advance against the institution of marriage of any candidate to ever run for the highest office.

Pointedly so he gave his full pledge to overturn, or repeal, the federal Defense of Marriage Act.

"I also believe that the federal government should not stand in the way of states that want to decide on their own how best to pursue equality for gay and lesbian couples — whether that means a domestic partnership, a civil union, or a civil marriage. Unlike Senator Clinton, I support the complete repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) – a position I have held since before arriving in the U.S. Senate. While some say we should repeal only part of the law, I believe we should get rid of that statute altogether."

This act was signed by the last liberal President in office William Jefferson Clinton. In pledging to do so Barack Obama has now staked out turf that threatens the viability of the next generation of children that could subject them to an operative norm that would contribute to the de-constructing of families as to however one could imagine in one state - and then forcing recognition of that sexual union by its neighboring state regardless of what the citizens of that state say.

In pledging to overturn DOMA Obama seeks to remove state's rights, violate the principles of federalism, violate a major tenant of all traditional religious systems observed in America, and subject children to a quite non-healthy home-life. Studies of which have confirmed would have a detrimental effect on said children's scholastic, emotional, intellectual and physical health.

Yet the overturning of DOMA is merely the beginning of Obama's radical homosexual activist agenda.

For months supporters of Obama have written to me asking for evidence that he would do anything to advance or at the very least not stand in the way of the redefining of marriage. See at least Ted Kennedy and John McCain both made the argument in not supporting the Constitutional Amendment to Protect Marriage that it was unnecessary on the grounds that DOMA would prevent the cancerous spread of Massachusetts' Judicial Activism from roaming state to state. But for Obama this is merely too little activism, and it proceeds far too slowly for his own desire.

Thus in his written statement this week he argues publicly that states should be allowed to redefine the marriage laws in their state regardless of what research norms, the will of the people, or the common sense of healthy tradition have to say about it.

In doing so Obama displays a reckless commitment to play games with the future sexual formation of families and puts himself so firmly planted in the camp of anti-biblical views of truth, sex, and family that we have never seen its comparison in all years previous.

Make no mistake, committed Obama supporters share his uber-libertine leanings to homosexual behavior, and want to encourage more relaxation of traditional moral sexual barriers in society. And with academics like Dr. Judith Levine arguing in her book, and endorsed by Clinton Surgeon General Joyclin Elders, arguing that sex between adults and children is not harmful to the child - one can easily imagine what such relaxation of rules would lead to.

I was the first pundit in America to predict that Barack Obama would be president in 2009. A prediction, I admitted at the time, pained me greatly. Nothing that has happened in the nomination process of either party has caused my five underlying conditions for his victory to be erased. With John McCain as the GOP nominee it appears my prediction is perfectly on track.

Yet I will not allow my prediction to come true without speaking the transparent truth that Obama is not a man of traditional values, nor is he a friend to families.

He may aspire to be many things.

Hey may also aspire to be labeled America's first gay president. He would without question be more deserving than "Clinton as 'black'" under even the kindest of comparisons.

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About The Author
Kevin McCullough is the nationally syndicated host of "'Xtreme' Radio and columnist based in New York. He blogs at www.muscleheadrevolution.com. His second book "The Kind Of MAN Every Man SHOULD Be" is in stores now.

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Classic Kevin McCullough
Another classic Kevin McCullough column, making the entire right look like uneducated, backwards, bigoted theocrats.

And reading all the William F. Buckley retrospectives this week makes the Kevin McCullough's of the world even more like amateur hacks. Just sad.

It doesn't matter
'Americans' not only have white guilt, but gay guilt too. Those who practice the 'gay' lifestyle are victims too. Oh to be a victim....

Separation of church and state!!!
Obama states, "I also believe that the federal government should not stand in the way of states."

McCullough states, "In pledging to overturn DOMA Obama seeks to remove state's rights."

In spite of McCullough's illogical slippery slope, the fact is that Congress has no business interfering in the business of people pursuing their happiness, as long as no others are physically endangered by their actions.

Should we not now make a constitutional amendment that adulterers are stoned to death also?!? Should we make a constitutional amendment outlawing Jewish bankers from charging interest of their Jewish clients?!?

If two people want to be recognized by the government for monetary purposes, wherefore is even the need of a priest?!?

. . .

It is not explicitly stated in either the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence that this nation was founded upon the New Testament nor the Old Testament. Period. In fact the Constitution makes no specific reference to what marriage is at all . . .

In trying to legislate your religious belief, you then become no better than theocratic governments that we daily rail against.

pax vobiscum

Kevin,
your column is obviously a testament to your OWN fears & bigotries regarding your gay brothers & sisters.

Obama will be the Gay President, the Black President. the Hispanic President, the Senior Citizen President, the Middle Class President, a president that unites the red & the blue states.

This does not include you, Kevin (in fact, it does not include many on Townhall). A significant number of Townhall columnists & posters are not "mainstream"-idea americans. They tend to be ideolistic & extremists. The average american is neither baffled nor afraid of gay people. This is a stage of cultural evolution that many here at TH have yet to pass through.

Readers will note that Kevin McCullough's title: "Obama, America's First Gay President?" is somehow (in his mind) "adroitly" playing a fear tactic. The equivalent of calling the folks who want the troops to return back home from Iraq "cut and runners", an equivalent of the "Blame America Firsters" sloganeering.

If the conservative party is to continue as a feasible functioning entity, I'd suggest that these bumper sticker scare politics are no longer enough to sustain the movement....the jig is up. "Cut & run" no longer yields much political capital. Yelling "Socialist!" (or "Socialized medicine!") no longer works it's magic of yesterday. Gay-baiting hit its peak (in the form of gay marriage) 4 years ago. All the polls show that americans favor SOME form of gay union (lumping gay marriage, civil unions & domestic partnerships all into the same basket).

In other words, your specific fear-mongering is so 4 years ago.

And I would suggest you didn't try to whip up fear against black-and-white marriage either, Kevin. It's accepted. It's yesterday. It's a non-starter. Most people don't care.

Gentle readers,
Please note Robert E. Lee's impassioned prose to us: "Since you lefty losers are no longer capable of understanding the need for moral virtue and the need to preserve traditional marriage, the decision is going to be made for you; there WILL be (repeat WILL be and repeat again WILL be) a Christian republic built upon..."


Listen to the longing, the wishful incantation in that sentence. You can practically hear (it's practically audible!) Robert E. Lee's palpable desperation for the american public to adhere to his version of "moral virtue". It is a bald & desperate plea.

"...there WILL be (repeat WILL be, and repeat again WILL be)..."

Monsieur Lee then admonishes me for exhibiting "pure wishful thinkng" in my comment. Now THAT is pure wishful thinking on YOUR part Bob Lee. Repeat to yourself: The homosexuals WILL BE, WILL BE, WILL BE defeated. Come on now, LOUDER Robert Lee!

Confederate soldier (Lee)
"your inability to practice sexual self-control."

You do not even know me brother; and your presupposed judgment is WRONG. I am straight, as in heterosexual, and actually, I am rather "straight-laced," so to speak; meaning I don't go to Hooter bars or sleep around. Actually, I am still very much in love with my Linda, but uhhh, well anyway . . .

Christian nation? As you judge people you do not even know . . .

peace Christian brother

Obama: America's first Gay President?
These hateful right-wingers have no decency.
They will say/write what ever to win.
What a bunch of bigots.

Wow
The only responses to the article coming from left wing crazies it would appear. I'm willing to bet that Will, empyrius and Tomlibertarian are Obamamaniacs.

So now I must ask how long we have left before final melt-down. Probably until October of next year, 2009. That will give enough time for Obama's policies to start affecting America. Economically, all of our remaining industries and banks will jump ship, moving overseas to escape Obama's taxes that he will have to levy to implement his health care and other programs.

Every last hospital will be broken and co-opted by the government. The effects of this will not be felt for another year or so, but by then, you will be waiting in line for 5-10 hours to get your broken arm mended, and God help you if you have something more serious. Cancer patients, kiss it goodbye unless you have high ranking political connections. Yet some will get head-of-the-line service, namely homosexuals, especially those suffering from AIDS.

Our military will be raped, in more ways than one, as funding is cut to find money for social programs. The "don't ask, don't tell" faux policy will be removed and special committees will be set up to insure the rapid advancement of gays and lesbians in our new paper military.

Our tax rates will skyrocket, as Obama seeks to redistribute wealth to the poor, while siphoning off another 1-3% of our GDP for the United Nations on top of all the foreign aid we already provide.

One money saving area will be our aid to Israel, as that will dry up real quick, lickety split. Most likely, one or two years into his Presidency, the council of muslim nations will be given the green light to erase Israel. In an odd turn-about, their last supporter will most likely be the Russians, who for their first 40 years helped those trying to destroy them.

Wow (cont)
Another tax drain, Reperations. Not sure were he will go with this, but can't see, Jessie, Ale, Farrakhan and the rest of the reperations crowd sitting idly by with the first black president in office, but most likely he will save this one for his second term, so we have some time before this happens.

As for Freedom of Speech, gone. Not all at once, but slowly. First the Fairness Doctrine for Talk Radio, then expansion of the Fairness Doctrine to eliminate websites like Townhall, etc. The conservative voice will be stamped out within the confines of the USA by the end of his first term. In the background while this is going on, various unions, such as those that educate our children and run our libraries will be busily tossing whats left of our history down the memory hole, all for the greater good of the children of course. First, authors such as Pat Buchanan, W.F. Buckley, Ann Coulter and others will disappear from the shelves. Then The Federalist Papers, On America, etc. Till we have only PC dregs of literature available.

Gun rights? Ha, your kidding, right? Hope you didn't register your gun, you will the first ones they come after. Most likely it will start as some sort of license you have to pay for each year to have a gun. Each year it will get more expensive, until no one can afford it unless you are a millionaire or better by the end of his first term. Then they will say that no private ownership is allowed should he get elected for a 2nd term.

Alex
Don't let hate, fear, and greed dictate your life.

empyrius
Regarding your observation that the Constitution & Declaration of Independence were not founded on the New & Old Testaments.

Two quotes from Thomas Jefferson, a founding father:

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was part of the common law".....Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, Feb. 10, 1814


"The whole history of these books, the Gospels, is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it; and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine".....Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, Jan. 24, 1814


Jefferson was a true child of the Enightenment, both in mind & spirit. A philosopher. A product of the Age of Reason & the Age of Science. He obviously was not a religious man. We are all forever in his debt that the evangelicals can never transform his vision of democracy into a theocracy (not while maintaining our Constitution at any rate).

Wow (cont)
Our borders? What borders? We don't need no stinking borders! To curry favor with whats left of the neocons, he will continue G.W. policy of a greater North American Union. He's said that he will pull out of NAFTA in public, I know, but has sent his reps to Canada and Mexico saying that this is all political B.S. Obama will aggressively pursue a policy of integration with Canada and Mexico.

Global Warming; Obama will continue and expand this charade and will most likely use it as cover for the frequent brown-outs and even black-outs we will start experiencing. Have you ever sold a house, now just imagine the real-estate agent or inspector saying "you've got the wrong light bulb and outlets. were going to have to report you and you will be fined $xxx dollars unless you change them by next week".

Most likely it will be in the range of several thousand or tens of thousands of dollars. The good thing is that it will be the equivalent of about $100 in todays dollars. Inflation in America will give Zimbabwe a run for it's money as Obama starts printing money pell-mell to pay for his social programs.

Good news, on the international front, we wont have to worry about war with China. Why? Because they will be able to buy us wholesale. What they don't buy, the Saudi's will. As more and more people are employed by the federal government, don't be surprised if your employer changes names to something like "Dubai Teachers Conglomerate" or "Zinghow Road Maintenance". Shortly after that you will find that if you wanted to quit for some reason, you can't. It seems your new contract does not allow you to quit, but you can be fired for any reason the company sees fit. In an ironic sense, this will be the ultimate payback to the corrupt unions who have sold America to the Dem's.

Wow (cont)
On the social level, addressing more directly the substance of this article, the last vestiges of support for marriage will disappear. It will be reduced to a legal contract between any number of people or even animals and inanimate objects. Tax incentives to support marriage will disappear, as the institution is ever expanded. As the institution becomes ever more ambiguous and flimsy, the Bar of Family Law Lawyers will see there source of wealth dry up, after they have spent all these years fighting for gay marriage (another ironic plus to the story), at least on the federal level.

On the local level, marriage will become much more serious I think. Within certain communities, Muslim at first and then Jewish and Christian as they are forced underground, the weight of the community opinion will start to have much more impact. Sharia courts will have already carved out their place within the legal system, as they are already on their way to doing now, but I'm willing to bet that Jewish courts will begin popping up as well as Christian courts. probably not approved, but their never the less. Amongst the larger community, this will be practically invisible at first, but as the weight of taxes in the quest for equality pushes all communities into poverty, I'm betting that religion has a resurgence in it's authority.

First Was Massachusetts
The comments, I'm reading, suggest that it's not PC to talk about the "gay" agenda even by conservatives.

It's real. First was Massachusetts. It will take awhile, but "change" will becoming to a neighborhood near you.

Wow (cont)
And last. Obama in my opinion is the gateway to a new dark ages at best. A fracturing and tribalising of the United States is the best thing that he could bring about. At worst, and if he is smart, he will usher in the final stage of soft totalitarianism, similar to a cross between George Orwell's 1984 and Huxley's Brave New World.

If anyone is going to lead us into these dark ages, I would think that the charismatic Obama would be the one. He is a demagogue of the first order, with his vacuous promises of change from the evil America we have been and are today.

empty suit
Obama is an empty suit promising that the word "gullible" is not in the dictionary. If he obtains the White House, will it be because God sent a strong delusion upon our Country?

Will no one profit from Obama
Of course not. Some groups will benefit greatly from an Obama presidency. Gays will become the gate-keepers of the Federal Government, much as they were in Germany under Frederick the Great, William II and Hitler, in the Ottoman Courts prior and during it's decline, and various other monarchies immediately prior to their disappearance. Gays will become the new "clappers" to borrow a term from Gulliver's Travels.

American's with black skin will also profit, however briefly, with the passing of any reparations schemes, but that will only last at most a couple of years and they will most likely find that the dollars given them are worthless by the time it gets to them.

Muslims will gain a huge increase in power being the most organized and aggressive of the many tribes and having a sympathetic ear with Obama if not an all out co-religionists. However, they are a very small minority , and cant stand gays, so will be limited in their power grab. But with time and the backing of petrol dollars they should be able to carve out a significant Dar al Islam in America that will steadily increase in size.

Will no one profit from Obama (cont)
Hispanics will suffer from the larger economic trends, with huge inflation and increased taxes, especially if they are legalized. However, with the inevitable rise of tribalism that will accompany the disintegration of the United States, they may be able to tear the US Southwest off and create their own nation, whether in geographic reality or defacto. Being as they are generally a hard working and productive people, this might become a future power in the region, and they might prove more successful at dealing with gang and drug violence depending on which factions rises to the top (MS13 might find dealing with La Raza more difficult than dealing with soft liberal gringos). However, if the gangs rise to the top, it could turn the region into an ugly wasteland, inviting encroachment by the Islamist or whole-sale annexation by Mexico, which would put them right back were they started from. This time they would have to swim across the Mississippi to get better jobs.

Taliban man
Robert E Lee: "Since you lefty losers are no longer capable of understanding the need for moral virtue and the need to maintain traditional marriage, the decision is going to be made for you: there WILL be (repeat WILL be and repeat again, WILL be) a Christian republic built upon this portion of the North American continent. We true conservatives sincerely hope you get used to the idea."

Bobby, why don't you try reading the Constitution.

Nutty Neocons
You didn't scare off the voters with the "ooh he's a Muslim" crap, so now you are trying the "ooh, he's a gay" crap. As if anyone would even briefly believe that.

The only people you will convince is those of your own tribe, who despise anyone who is gay or a Muslim.

Fear
Kevin reminds me of the John Birchers of the 1960s, finding a commie under every stone. His excessive fear of homosexuality is ridiculous.

When I first became interested in politics in the mid 1970s, I can recall Reagan talking about limited government, a strong national defense, low taxes, and less regulation of business. This has morphed regrettably into big government conservatism where the state wants to peer into people's private lives. Conservatism should be about letting every American live their life without interference from government, unless one's actions harm another. Period.

Regarding the presidency...
...there is such a thing as the US Congress.In fact,the Congress is much more closely reflective of the will of the people,and I assure you that they will not permit radical change from a president such as Obama.That has always been America's saving grace,and it is not going to change.

Save Your Energy
Alex,

I enjoyed your posts.

It doesn’t matter how logical or strong your arguments are. I’ve learned that it’s pointless trying to engage in any reasonable dialogue with the far left.

They will not listen or try to understand any point of view but their own. It’s group think and collective denial on a grand scale. Furthermore, any social ill that befalls us will most certainly be someone else’s fault…regardless of who’s in the white house. It is the victim mindset.

They have perfected the art of demonization…the Bush haters. They scream the loudest and spit the furthest. They don’t tout virtues because they believe they’re unimportant. In fact they ridicule those who espouse such concepts like integrity, honor, valor, and the like.

I’ve stop trying to debate with them…or even to understand what motivates their ideology of hatred. Now I just ignore and accept their rants as I would an unknowing child’s tantrum.

They are an unhappy lot. I take some satisfaction in the truth of the age old axiom: what comes around goes around.

SCARY!
reading some of these comments is giving me a serious case of the chills. This has become an election about semantics..part two of "It depends on what your definition of "is" is." The real issue may be whether Obama uses the word "mainstream" as a verb or a noun. It seems to me that he will use the word as a verb-as in "to mainstream"..to pull ideas from the fringe and make them the new "standard". In doing so, what was once considered the standard in this country (marriage btw a man and a woman, Christianity, free speech, the right to bear arms) will be pushed out to the fringe. These coming times will very much test the soul of this country, and our willingness to stand up for what we believe in.

Kevin
"... the transparent truth that Obama is not a man of traditional values, nor is he a friend to families."

Ahhh see Kevin yes he is. Your values of intolerance, hate, forced conformity and psuedo Christianity never were America's "traditional values". America's traditional values are in the Declaration of Independence and our over 200 year journey to build cooperation and tolerance. Go back to your bunker now...

Obama homosexual suasion
The lesbian and gay civil rights movement has pushed homosexuality out of the artistic and commercial world and into the political and social sphere.

This is guaranteed to create a backlash. While that backlash may be inevitable and is necessary, it can be tamped down or fanned by political forces. Obama's liberal stance embraces the homosexual agenda and is another reason why his election will divide not unite the nation!

I have no problem with leaving it
to the states, since in referendum after referendum, the states have rejected granting homosexual behavior the same status as marriage.

The problem arises when activist judges subvert the will of the people to favor a politically powerful special interest minority.

Bobby Lee - ''moral virtue'' @ gunpoint?
--
If government's got to ram a particular brand of "moral virtue" down folks' throats - utilizing its functional monopoly on the lawful employment of violent force - what the hell happens to "freeom of conscience," hm?







------------------
"Politically, if religious faith dominates, freedom will not be permitted. If the basic political goal is the secular one of defending individual rights, then each person has sovereignty over his life and is left free by the state to think for himself and to pursue his own values. But if the basic goal is to implement the will of some unfathomable deity, then the citizen cannot be allowed to exercise his own judgment and to challenge divine authority. The religionist believes there is no difference between the crime of, say, murder and the 'crime' of uttering some religious heresy - both acts defy God's commandments and so must be punished. The demand for blind faith does not acknowledge the inviolability of man's rational mind."

-- Peter Schwartz

Alex
Don't forget that Hitler & the leaders closest to him (in Germany) were indeed "Bear" homosexuals.

EVERY lib-lunatic post adds credibility

To Dr. Rossiter’s findings: liberal “ ideology motivating them is actually a mental disorder.”

"Based on strikingly irrational beliefs and emotions, modern liberals relentlessly undermine the most important principles on which our freedoms were founded. Like spoiled, angry children, they rebel against the normal responsibilities of adulthood and demand that a parental government meet their needs from cradle to grave."


Otis
"...This is guaranteed to create a backlash. While that backlash may be inevitable and is necessary, it can be tamped down or fanned by political forces."

You don't get it do you? There was a backlash The past 10 years of the conservative agenda of god, guns and gays. It is over. Few Americans care what you do with your adult partner in your bedroom...

"Obama's liberal stance embraces the homosexual agenda and is another reason why his election will divide not unite the nation! "

LMAO, LMAO get real! No matter how hard he tried he never could divide the nation as much as the Bush Regime and your ilk has

DOMA
Is a violation of state's rights. Kevin, can you please tell me where in the Constitution the federal government is given the power to regulate marriage?

Also
There are already hundreds of thousands of children being raised in homosexual homes (and contrary to KMC's lie, most studies have shown no ill effects).

For some reason, conservatives think that taking legal protections away from these children (it is more difficult to get health coverage, since they can only be covered under one of their parent's group plans; they are not entitled a parent's SS benefits; in all ways, conservatives have worked to make their homes less stable).

Why do conservatives believe that making life more difficult for the children raised by gays is in any way helpful to anyone? How can you pretend you care, when you have actively pursued policies that harm these children?


less government intrusion
I am conservative to the bone. I do not like being around "flaming" homosexuals, I know homosexuals and I am social with them, I do not mind them. I do not push my ideas about sexuality upon society; I do not use the government and NEA to go into schools and brainwash children into believing as I do; the gay interests do.
States and communities should be the entities deciding the issue of gay marriage. As long as one community or state is not able to impose its recognition on other entities; as long as the collective citizenry does not have to support these decisions either financially or morally, government closest to the people govern best. This type of governance allows differing lifestyles to live together. The same respect needs to be given me; I need a state that allows me to not recognize the homosexual lifestyle; I need the same rights they are seeking. By demanding universal recognition, the same rights they are seeking are being stripped from me.
It seems to me the reason our Constitution is laid out as it is, is to allow those with different views to author their own destinies with the maximum amount of freedom. If my views are not represented where I live, I have the right to either apply political pressure on my local elected officials or I can move to an area that more closely represents my views.
The less our federal government intrudes into our lives, the better our lives will be.

Many thanks
It is apparent that you hit a bullseye judging by the vitriol and volume of activist's comments. When you shed the light in dark corners all sort of unsavory creatures will dash out.

Many thanks!

Viri Christi: EXCELLENT POINT!

Just as you said, "When you shed the light in dark corners all sort of unsavory creatures will dash out."

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the libs monitor TH, and immediately send out their trolls when any truthful column is posted.

Notice the first several posts...starting with Sunday, March, 02, 2008 12:22 AM

Very typical.



billg64
"..I do not push my ideas about sexuality upon society; I do not use the government and NEA to go into schools and brainwash children into believing as I do; the gay interests do."

Is asking acknowledgement that they exist pushing?

"States and communities should be the entities deciding the issue of gay marriage. ...... This type of governance allows differing lifestyles to live together. "

Look if everything you said was true, the South and many red states would be the wealthiest, best educated and happiest states in the Union. Hmmm why isn't that the case?

"The same respect needs to be given me; I need a state that allows me to not recognize the homosexual lifestyle; I need the same rights they are seeking. By demanding universal recognition, the same rights they are seeking are being stripped from me."

This is the argument the the southerners used to retain segragation... It is as valid now as it was in the 60s


Quoting Jefferson out of context
What is a lie but the skin of truth wrapped around a falsehood, when Jefferson wrote: "Christianity neither is, nor ever was part of the common law".....Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, Feb. 10, 1814, he was referring to English common law and to assert that he was not a "reigious man" is to re-write history (a common ploy) he struggled with his faith as many do but in the end he remains more Christian than not, here are his words: He considered Jesus the teacher of a sublime and flawless ethic. Writing in 1803 to the Universalist physician Benjamin Rush, Jefferson wrote, "To the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence, and believing he never claimed any other."

So beware of false prophets of secularism!




MARRIAGE IS A RELIGIOUS RITE

.....Which when sanctioned by the State becomes a legal contract between two parties, traditionally a man and a woman ...

.....The State has co-opted the word "marriage" to describe the contract but legally it is simply a contract between consenting adults and thus a "civil" union ...

.....Marriage in the church is a religious experience where a man and a woman vow to God to be faithful to each other under the bonds of marriage with the blessings of the Church ...

....."Marriage" by a civil servant is no more than a contract between two parties in accordance with the laws of the State ...

.....Therefore I see no justification for a Constitutional Amendment defining what a marriage is, or should be ...civil contracts only need to be legal in accordance with the laws of that State ...and that should reflect the will of the people ...

.....This is a Classic Separation of Church and States issue and should be left to the States to decide no matter how much this galls someones own personal religious beliefs ...this is simple logic and it is too bad that some politicians are using this issue to pander to the base emotions of the voters .....COLOSSUS

tempest in a tea pot
one writer gives his view and immediately the left goes into a case of the vapors. The left continually cries that conservs want to know what is going on in others bedrooms. But this is just a phoney issue to gin up support for various positions advocated by the left. I accept the issue of marriage as something determioned by the citizens in any staqte. If those advocating for one position present a better argument for any issue and can convince their fellow citizens to support that at the ballot box the issue is essentially decided. But for a handful of judges to impliment choices on a state that do not represent the wishes of the electorate are even more worrisome. To date the gay community has yet to advance a winning argument that society should bend to their wishes. The left continually cries about hav ing every vote count, that being the case let them trust the voters. Or does the left only rely on their other tried and true tactic, that when the voters don't give them what they wantthey turn to leftist judges to get their way

DOMA and state versions
I understand the vitriol expressed by the homosexual acitivists in regard to this column. In nearly every state where the definition of marriage has become an issue the traditional, and correct definition has stood up. What many gays don't realize is that their chosen behavior has very few friends. While liberals publicly profess support of the behavior, privately they express complete revulsion. I have personally witnessed this many times in private conversations. It follows that in the privacy of the voting booth, this behavior garners little support.

Even those who do not support any religion or religious convictions can't bring themselves to vote for the dissolution of the traditional family. In my opinion western civilization should not cater to the tiny minority whose cultural identity is based on abberant sexual practices.

That the homosexual community is taken in by Obamas supposed support of their agenda is simply lunacy on their part. Politicians are by profession liars. If the vast majority of the population gets the idea that Obama supports the homosexual agenda he will lose, end of story.

Hi Hal
If the agenda we are speaking of only asked for acknowledgement of existence that would not be considered "pushing one's lifestyle". First of all sexuality needs not be discussed in early years of school, that is pushing not matter who is doing it. Stating that that lifestyle is not a moral issue is "pushing". Teaching "fisting", the need for homosexual experimentation, equivalence with a traditional family is "pushing". So I argue your premise that simple acknowledgement is the only agenda.
I have a news flash; Most people segregate themselves from most of society. If one truly wants to segregate themselves, they should have the right, if I want to associate with people with opposing views -I believe my horizons expand as I do- that is also my right. But do not be deceived, everyone segregates themselves on some line.

Thanx Bill

EMPYRIUS 12:40 AM

.....I did not read your post before I posted my own but you have made the case clearly and logically ...I could not have stated it better ...

.....It is difficult, if not impossible for some to think objectivly when religion is concerned .....COLOSSUS

Missing the point
If local communities could make their own decisions about how to live, or indeed, even States, I'd tell the Federal Government to stay out of it. I'm very much a Federalist.

However, the will of the people is being thwarted by activist judges, legislating from the bench. That's what the DOMA was all about.

Parenting was meant to be done by a mother and father. They are very distinct and the mix brings with it the proper balance in raising children. Gays cannot provide that balance.

Further, the gay lifestyle is certainly a health risk.

Homosexuality is nothing new, it's been going on for centuries. What's new is the push to normalize it, calling that which is unhealthy - healthy. Calling that which is a perversion - normal.

I DO NOT have anything against homosexuals, what they choose to do in their own homes is entirely up to them.

I just don't like them attempting to shove their behavior down our throats and the throats of our kids.

I just don't like them ignoring the vote of the majority and heading to an ACLU judge.

I just don't like them attempting to throw guilt on me, or call me deragory names because I do not accept their lifestyle and/or behavior.

Marriage has been around for centuries as well. It has ALWAYS been defined as a man and a woman. Because only a man and a woman can concieve a child. Now, when the day comes when two women or two men can concieve a child on their own, I'll be all for gay marriage.

Having said all that, I AM for civil unions. I believe ANY couple should have a right to visit one another in the hospital, share a bank account and the like. Our laws have not been set up for gay relationships, and I think that's not fair and we should be accomodating.

Just don't try to call it marriage, that's reserved for one man and one woman.

Homosexual behavior is always a choice
So why do we need to treat it as if is a something with no choice?

Marriage is not just a matter of religion. Those who claim it is just want to marginalize the debate into nothingness. Marriage has always been defined in every language as a unity of people of the opposite sex - usually one man and one woman, although there are societies that have polygamous relations. It has NEVER been conceived as a relationship between members of the same sex. You can call a dandelion a rose but it is still a dandelion. Calling homosexual partnerships a marriage doesn't change the fact that they are weeds in the garden.

Homosexual relationships do nothing to foster society. They are based on sexual relations that are deviant and unnatural; biology 101, people.

One does not need to have sexual relationships to survive. Homosexual behavior is always chosen. We should not be building special rights for people whose sole call to their position is their sexual behavior. We need a Federal DOMA to prevent the activist judges in individual states from corrupting the institution of marriage by their radical agendas.

Everything the homosexuals want from "marriage" can be secured through other legal means with contracts, powers of attorney, etc. But what they really want is to destroy the institution itself so as to justify what they know is deviant, perverse and immoral behavior.

Once you redefine marriage, then polygamy will become legal in the U.S. (the Mormons will be happy with that), people can marry their brothers or sisters, they can have two men and two women, they can have a person and a goat or any other permutation that justifies whatever sexual abberation one participates in.

I agree with Gay Conservative...
...limited government,a strong national defense, low taxes, and less regulation of business.
But gays need to realize that they are denied the same thing I am; I cannot "marry" another man. I can, as can a gay man, marry a woman. There is only one choice for either of us. That's pretty fair.

How it all began...
Humans existed as members of small bands of nomadic hunter/gatherers. They lived on deer in the mountains during the summer & would go to the
coast and live on fish and lobster in winter.

The 2 most important events in all of history were the invention of beer and the invention of the wheel. The wheel was invented to get man to the beer.

These were the foundations of modern civilization and together were the catalyst for the splitting of humanity into 2 distinct subgroups:

Liberals and Conservatives

Once beer was discovered it required grain and that was the beginning of agriculture. Neither the glass bottle nor aluminum can were invented
yet, so while our early human ancestors were sitting around waiting for them to be invented, they just stayed close to the brewery. That's how villages were formed.

Some men spent their days tracking and killing animals to B-B-Q at night while they were drinking beer. This was the beginning of what is known as "the Conservative movement."

Other men who were weaker and less skilled at hunting learned to live off the conservatives by showing up for the nightly B-B-Q's and doing the
sewing, fetching and hair dressing. This was the beginning of the The Liberal movement.

Some of these liberal men eventually evolved into women. The rest became known as girliemen. Some noteworthy liberal achievements include the
domestication of cats, the invention of group therapy and group hugs and the concept of Democratic voting to decide how to divide the meat and beer that conservatives provided.

Cont`d

Cont`d
Over the years conservatives came to be symbolized by the largest, most powerful land animal on earth, the elephant. Liberals are symbolized by the jackass.

Modern liberals like imported beer (with lime added), but most prefer white wine or imported bottled water. They eat raw fish but like their
beef well done. Sushi, tofu, and French food are standard liberal fare.

Another interesting revolutionary side note: most of their women have higher testosterone levels than their men. Most social workers, personal
injury attorneys, journalists, dreamers in Hollywood and group therapists are liberals. Liberals invented the designated hitter rule
because it wasn't "fair" to make the pitcher also bat.

Conservatives drink domestic beer. They eat red meat and still provide for their women. Conservatives are big-game hunters, rodeo cowboys,lumberjacks, construction workers, firemen, medical doctors, police officers, corporate executives, Marines, athletes and generally anyone who works productively. Conservatives who own companies hire other
conservatives who want to work for a living.

Liberals produce little or nothing. They like to "govern" the producers and decide what to do with the production. Liberals believe Europeans
are more enlightened than Americans. That is why most of the Liberals remained in Europe when conservatives were coming to America. They crept
in after the Wild West was tame and created a business of trying to get MORE for nothing.

Here ends today's lesson in world history:


Big Daddy
I think the government should get out of the marriage business and allow everyone to get a civil union. But permit this on a state by state basis. And keep marriage as a RELIGIOUS institution which the government cannot regulate. So if a church won't recognize a gay marriage, fine, go to a more liberal church.

Frankly, marriage is not important to me, but ending the Don't Ask Don't Tell is more imperative an issue in our war on terror. We need all the people necessary in the military, and firing the gays and lesbians has hurt us, primarily in Arab language specialists.

Salty
"Modern liberals like imported beer (with lime added), but most prefer white wine or imported bottled water. They eat raw fish but like their
beef well done. Sushi, tofu, and French food are standard liberal fare."

What a pile of absured ad hominems. Many liberals spurn bottled water due to its detrimental affect on the environment. As for the rest, what difference would it make if these stereotypical dietary preferances were correct? Why not act like a proper conservative and mind your own business as to what others want to drink?

Big Daddy
"...gays need to realize that they are denied the same thing I am; I cannot "marry" another man. I can, as can a gay man, marry a woman. There is only one choice for either of us."

Possibly the most disengenuous post so far. Gays marrying women used to happen a lot when people used to think it was a choice, rather than something you are (which is what science now pretty much supports). This older viewpoint led to broken marriages, and also frauds like Ted Haggard.

I'm straight - turning gay would certainly never be a 'choice' for me.

Until gays start asking straight people to be FORCED to marry their own gender, then it's nonsense to talk of them pushing a 'radical agenda', and even more nonsense to say Obama is pursuing the same. Another sign of the increased far right desperation as they sense Obama's momentum growing.

AndyR- Sleight of Hand Straw Man
AndyR Sez: "Possibly the most disengenuous post so far... Until gays start asking straight people to be FORCED to marry their own gender, then it's nonsense to talk of them pushing a 'radical agenda'"
***********************************************

Thank you for describing your post for the rest of us. Yes, what you said WAS the most disengenuous post so far.

When you misquote a person's position in order to argue with him, that is dishonest.

Nowhere do we advocate that gays be FORCED to marry anyone. So you are a big fat liar.

If you want to have a civil discussion, it has to start with a sincere approach to the issues, not with deliberate distortions of the other person's side.

the real agenda
"What goes on in our bedrooms is our business".that has been the rallying cry from gay groups for years. Hey, I agree! But should my pastor be forced to marry two guys, or two girls, or one guy and two girls? All of this talk about privacy is a smoke screen for the real agenda which is to force every person in every sector of this country to openly profess their support of EVERY lifestyle..with the ultimate gold rings being the boy scouts, the schools and the church! (Did anyone see the video of the two guys IN FLAMBOYANT DRAG getting communion at some Catholic church in San Francisico? Ask yourself what the point of that mockery was!) The agenda here is to re-classify any and all religious convictions as intolerance. PS- I'm all for civil unions..but not marriage.

a beautiful day
Good stuff Will and baseballdoc, and well actually, good stuff from everybody!

It is very hard for all of us, myself being one of the worst but trying to get better, to stay thoroughly logical when we converse about "stuff" that we so wholeheartedly believe in (my first post on the "Would Christ carry a concealed weapon" was less than wholly positive); and I just want to say God bless us all, b/c by and large I think we all truly mean well . . .

And, imho, personal attacks just make us all look dumb . . .

NORM, is that you my brother from Intentblog?!?!?!

peace all

billg64
"..If the agenda we are speaking of only asked for acknowledgement of existence that would not be considered "pushing one's lifestyle". First of all sexuality needs not be discussed in early years of school, that is pushing not matter who is doing it."

What no stories about families like so and so has two mommies or the happy mom and dad? Lifestyle is all around you. Then it is ok for two guys to kiss good bye or hold hands at a mall? Subtle things like that are all around us and I guess why should it matter

"Stating that that lifestyle is not a moral issue is "pushing". Teaching "fisting", the need for homosexual experimentation, equivalence with a traditional family is "pushing"."

Hmmm now you are talking sex education and going to extremes. That said I understand the "fisting" is more heterosexual than homosexual although I cannot image who would do it or why.

"So I argue your premise that simple acknowledgement is the only agenda.
I have a news flash; Most people segregate themselves from most of society."

Really??? I don't see that unless you mean most Americans? Then living in a small city I still don't see that

"If one truly wants to segregate themselves, they should have the right...."

Ahh see here I disagree that was what the civil rights era was all about

Not all Fascists are Liberal
Oh how I miss the days when the GOP believed in small government and freedom.

Now the GOP is becoming the political wing of the Christian Church. What they call "moral values" is simply shredding the Bill of Rights and replacing it with biblical law. And that does not represent my "moral values."

By the way...only on Townhall would someone posting as "Robert E. Lee" lecture others on morality.

This is why I left the GOP for the Libertarians. Fewer bigots and theocrats.

Tom the lib wrote:
"Another classic Kevin McCullough column, making the entire right look like uneducated, backwards, bigoted theocrats. "

It's always predictable that the libs will come out of their sewer and attempt feeble criticisms without any basis in reality. This thread started with someone claiming that the this fact-filled column demonstrates a lack of education yet the self-same post has ZERO evidence to back up its absurd assertions. I looked in vain through the lib posts and found not a single refutation. Proving once again the vacuous nature of the liberal mind.

Tell us Tom, just exactly how does Kevin's column make us all look uneducated, backwards, bigoted theocrats?

The reader will notice that the very OPPOSITE of what Tom is claiming is actually the case. Note that Tom cannot address the following questions:

1. How does educating people by revealing BHO's positions, something that many people don't know about (i.e. they are ignorant) on DOMA and the gay agenda, make one "uneducated"?

2. How does promoting an ancient sexual aberration that almost always contributes to the destruction of the social fabric of once great civilizations be perceived as forward thinking?

3. How is it that protecting marriage, a foundational tradition of our civilization, "bigoted"?

4. Where, in Kevin's column, did he promote a theocracy?

5. Tom, do you even know what a theocrat is?

Based on your post, clearly not.

Obama: another Leftie Trojan Horse
The Left knows that they won't win the White House if they are honest about their long-term agenda, so they lie and misrepresent their positions

OR worse, they hijack conservative jargon and redefine it. Therefore, to a Leftie, family values means encouraging families that have two mommies or two daddies. To a Leftie, traditional American values means a return to the late 1960s when they were successfully pushing and shoving the country to the left.

And when a Leftie talks about bringing all people together, he means forcing is Leftist agenda down everyone else's throats and silencing all other voices.

And when a Leftie talks about civil discourse, he means that he can call you every vile name in the book, and you are required to only say nice things about him.

And when a Leftie talks about "reaching across the aisle," he means that he is reaching across to drag you over and tie you up so that only his side is presented.

When you hear Obama say his sweet nothings, don't forget to hear the real interpretation of his words, which are coming out of his harpy wife when she speaks.

Bluepiper
You are confusing the separate meanings of the word:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
mar·riage /'mær?d?/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mar-ij] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.
2. the state, condition, or relationship of being married; wedlock: a happy marriage.
3. the legal or religious ceremony that formalizes the decision of a man and woman to live as husband and wife, including the accompanying social festivities: to officiate at a marriage.
4. a relationship in which two people have pledged themselves to each other in the manner of a husband and wife, without legal sanction: trial marriage; homosexual marriage.
5. any close or intimate association or union: the marriage of words and music in a hit song.
6. a formal agreement between two companies or enterprises to combine operations, resources, etc., for mutual benefit; merger.
7. a blending or matching of different elements or components: The new lipstick is a beautiful marriage of fragrance and texture.
8. Cards. a meld of the king and queen of a suit, as in pinochle. Compare royal marriage.
9. a piece of antique furniture assembled from components of two or more authentic pieces.
10. Obsolete. the formal declaration or contract by which act a man and a woman join in wedlock.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1250–1300; ME mariage < OF, equiv. to mari(er) to marry1 + -age -age]

Hal Donahue
"Fisting?"

*OUCH*

More bilge from Tom
"Now the GOP is becoming the political wing of the Christian Church. What they call "moral values" is simply shredding the Bill of Rights and replacing it with biblical law. And that does not represent my "moral values.""

Do you have any actually EVIDENCE to support your childish assertions Tom or are just here to make libertarians look more kooky than they already do?

Answer these questions:

1. Exactly where has the GOP, a party that has totally abandoned social, fiscal, and security tenets, become the "political wing of the Christian Church"? Be specific.

2. Where is anyone calling for Biblical law? Ironically, since the Bill of Rights descends from the Magna Carta which, itself, is based on Biblical tradition, where is all this "shredding" you are talking about?

Your moral values are of no interest to me. Maintaining a a constitutional republic is. As others have well pointed out and which you completely ignore (and if you were a real libertarian you would be outraged about), ACLU pocketed judges routinely subvert the will of the people and thus, DOMA is ESSENTIAL to maintaining states rights. State after state have voted against gay "marriage", yet the gay agenda judges want to force said states to accept the gay agenda anyway. Why not defend the rights of states to keep traditional marriage Tom?

halD is parsing again! Losing another

argument?

What is this.... 6 - 8 in a row?




States Decide?
When the Leftie Losers like ObamaNation say they want the states to decide about the definition of marriage, what exactly do they mean?

Everywhere that the definition of marriage has been put to the voters, they ALWAYS vote to keep the definition as one man and one woman.

Yet, the Leftie courts, in their typical empirical power grab, are now deciding to go against the will of the people and forcing this redefinition of marriage on an unwilling population.

When o when are the American people going to stand up and overthrow these totalitarian elitists?

Hal
The civil rights era battles were over equal treatment and civil rights. Some southern states were battling to not recognize the negro as a human being. Do not be ridiculous,most churches are primarily segregated, different peoples can go to them, they choose to worship with like minded people. Young people generally segregate themselves by their age group. Elderly associate with elderly. Different ethnicities congregate with each other. To believe otherwise is naive .

The word segregation holds a prejudice against it. Oops there is another word; WE ARE all prejudiced and we all segregate (not just Americans), these are not bad traits,these are the traits that allow people to civilize. To discriminate or harm another based on these traits is the harm. To debase the civil rights movement by stating it was to end segregation is a folly.

I do not want my kids to have to see ANYONE sticking their tongue down another's throat, nor do they need to see open sexuality of any sort in places not intended for it. I am my children's parents, it is my right to ascribe morality to them as I see fit.


SALTY

.....Thanks for the History lesson ...

.....Maybe we could find a Conservative Politicial to push teaching this version in Public Schools? .....COLOSSUS

shed the words
that emphasise differences...

We are people.

Each with the same right... deserving of the same liberty,to love and be loved.


...with dignity and privacy.

Again, we complicate what God's creating dictates.

billg64
"The civil rights era battles were over equal treatment and civil rights. Some southern states were battling to not recognize the negro as a human being."

And a lot were just battling to treat them as sub human I see little difference with the gays in a lot of areas

"Do not be ridiculous,most churches are primarily segregated, different peoples can go to them, they choose to worship with like minded people. Young people generally segregate themselves by their age group. Elderly associate with elderly. Different ethnicities congregate with each other. To believe otherwise is naive ."

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This seg·re·gate (seg'ri-gat') Pronunciation Key
v. seg·re·gat·ed, seg·re·gat·ing, seg·re·gates

v. tr.

To separate or isolate from others or from a main body or group. See Synonyms at isolate.
To impose the separation of (a race or class) from the rest of society.


"...To debase the civil rights movement by stating it was to end segregation is a folly."

Isolate is the tell here.

"I do not want my kids to have to see ANYONE sticking their tongue down another's throat, nor do they need to see open sexuality of any sort in places not intended for it."

I did not say anything about tongue did I. I said a kiss goodbye of holding hands.

Nellie- How old are you?
You sound like a naive child.

The best way for people to live in peace together is to learn how to discuss our differences civilly, and then agree to disagree. Then after we have discussed our positions in the marketplace of ideas, we take a vote. These are called elections.

If we don't discuss the issues, how do you expect to vote intelligently? How do you expect to be informed on the issues? This is why young people vote based on emotion rather than intellect.

If we stop having differences, whose side should everyone have? If you are like most Lefties, you mean that everyong should agree with you.

And exactly how do you plan to make sure that everyone continues to follow YOUR plan of love and warm fuzzies? Most Lefties decide to enforce their cultural harmony at the point of a gun. Hence the French Revolution, the Russian Gulags and the Cambodian Killing Fields.

Obama Nation = Abomonation
If you think the Left has a stranglehold over the culture, just wait until the ObamaNation hubby & wife tag team get their Leftie hands on the Federal government.

Robert
I have no idea what you just said to me.

MT. Rose writes: "...just wait until

the ObamaNation hubby & wife tag team get their Leftie hands on the Federal government."

Well, according to halD, that will be a good thing because everyone will get health care....


OOOOOOPS, except for the overweight and old because "the health service cannot afford to provide free care to everyone."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/0 1/27/nhs127.xml



Mt. Rose: NOBODY ever has any idea

what wobbie says... EVER!

Last night I asked if anyone had seen a coherent post by wobbie..... Can't say that anyone stepped up and admitted they had...

Well, maybe halD might sometime, but he keeps getting slammed with FACT, and gets abusive, and goes away...



You wouldn't've said it if he was Jewish
If Barack Obama were Jewish, you wouldn't have said that he was gay! Is it he's just not 'wide stance' enough for you? I'll bet it's because he has been giving better speeches than your choice of candidates has been giving! (Obama's best trait seems to be giving inspiring speeches) Was that why you were calling him gay? Wonder what Michelle Obama would have to say about it if she heard that her husband was being called 'gay'? Did any 'gay supremacists' contribute to Obama's campaign?