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Wednesday, May 20, 2009
John Stossel :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Medicare Ponzi Scheme
by John Stossel
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Isn't it high time America did less for the elderly? A politically incorrect question for sure. But Medicare has an astounding $34-trillion unfunded liability. And because of rising unemployment, its hospital-stay program will go broke two years earlier than previously predicted.

For my recent ABC special "You Can't Even Talk About It", I spoke with residents of La Posada, a development in Florida that made Forbes's list of top 10 "ritzy" retirement communities. These folks are well off. And they get a bonus: You pay for most of their health care under Medicare.

The retirees love it. Everyone likes getting free stuff. And Medicare often makes going to the doctor just about free.

Why is this a good thing?

"What about those young people [who pick up the tab]? What kind of legacy are we leaving for them?" asks Harvard Business School Professor Regina Herzlinger. "We're really stealing from them."

Some high-school students are alarmed about the scam. "20/20" interviewed a group that is willing to help needy seniors -- they volunteer at a food bank -- but they are angry that Medicare forces them to pay for even wealthy seniors.

"This program, Medicare, is essentially ripping my generation off," Zach Hadaway said.

Policy experts say the kids are right.

"The government spends around $6 on seniors for every dollar it spends on children, and yet the poverty rate among children is far higher," said Andrew Biggs of the American Enterprise Institute (www.aei.org).

The federal government stiffs the young in favor of the old.

So I told the La Posada seniors that the kids called them "greedy geezers." They said, "We've paid our dues." Money was taken from every paycheck they earned.

But, in fact, the average Medicare beneficiary today collects two to three times more money than he paid in.

"I would argue that this is not only unfair, it's downright immoral," says billionaire Pete Peterson.

Peterson is a rarity: a senior who decided he cannot in good conscience accept Medicare. He and his foundation (www.pgpf.org) worry about the looming fiscal disaster. When Medicare began in 1965, six working-aged people paid for each Medicare recipient. Now the figure is four. It will get worse as baby boomers like me retire.

Medicare is unsustainable.

"There is $34 trillion sitting off the balance sheet, waiting for future generations to pay," Herzlinger said.

That's how much more Medicare money government has promised than it has budgeted. It's the price of about 30 Iraq Wars.

We locked up Bernie Madoff for running a Ponzi scheme. Medicare is a bigger one. Seniors think the money deducted from their paychecks was stored in a trust fund. But, in fact, it was spent immediately. The "trust fund" is an accounting gimmick.

The giant seniors' lobbying group, AARP (www.aarp.org), rarely talks about Medicare's coming bankruptcy, and it rejects reforms like means-testing or raising the eligibility age, claiming most problems can be solved simply by lowering health-care costs.

"Do things like make better use of health information technology," David Certner, AARP's director of legislative policy, told me.

The Congressional Budget Office says such reforms won't save much money.

"Well, they're going to have to," Certner said.

That sounds like wishful thinking -- not unusual among powerful lobbies that ignore basic economics. When something is free for one group, demand runs wild, pushing up prices for those who must pay for themselves and the subsidized group.

On top of that, the demographic problem Peterson emphasizes won't go away, no matter how cleverly the "fix health care" argument tries to bury it. Fewer workers per retiree means shrinking Medicare tax revenues -- period -- even if health-care costs are flat.

"Ultimately, somebody's going to have to give up some medical treatment they'd been getting," Peterson says.

Our group of seniors had second thoughts after we spoke. "I hear what the kids are saying," a man said, "When they get to be our age, there may not be any Medicare."

"Tell them to change the law," one said. "If the kids can get the votes, then they can get it done."

Fat chance. The elderly vote on Medicare.

Most young people don't even know they're getting ripped off.

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About The Author
John Stossel blogs at http://blogs.abcnews.com/johnstossel/ is an award-winning news correspondent and author of Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity: Get Out the Shovel--Why Everything You Know is Wrong.
 
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Good Article
Like higher education, everyone complains escalating medical costs without laying the blame on the real culprit: government. By virtue of its presence in the market, the government increases demand thus increasing prices. Without free insurance, seniors would not monopolize valuable doctors appointments with their ulcers and aches.

"I paid my dues" is not accurate. The Medicare withholding is appropriately name the Medicare "Tax." It is not a contribution into some trust fund; it is merely a tax redistributing wealth from the productive to the unproductive. "I paid my dues" is another way of saying "I'm entitled."

The Greatest Generation became the Welfare Generation.

Thanks LBJ!!
Way back in '65 we had that Texas hack, setting up the ponzi scheme. Why not? It worked so well for FDR with Social Security? (Didn't FDR call it something else,.... Insurance, something?)

It's all about redistribution of wealth, boys and girls! And freedom from responsibility! The problem is, who's gonna pay????

Greedy Geezers? True. But they are just one group of MANY that are greedy in our society today. Greed isn't the right word. Thief is the right word. Irresponsible childish self centered leeches is more accurate.

Formula for Fascist Success
Stunned:

"Way back in '65 we had that Texas hack, setting up the ponzi scheme. Why not? It worked so well for FDR with Social Security? (Didn't FDR call it something else,.... Insurance, something?)"

Absolutely. If at first you don't succeed...

What do you suppose this Obambi fascist puppet is doing with his mountain of spending? Would you guess hastening the collapse? No? You still insist on living in denial?

Ask yourself - does a temporary free market correction justify the monumental future debt obligations these fascists are piling on the younger generations right now? Consider the seizure of free industries, the massive unemployment created by destroyed industries, entities that WERE supporting the US debt and entitlement obligations - but are NO LONGER.

Does 'saving the planet' BS mean more to you than your own welfare? Is Russia, Red China, India, Saudi Arabia, Iran, buying - or even trying to sell this hoax?

You've already elected an Islamic fascist as president out of guilt - will surrender your standard of living and defense of your freedoms to the same flimflammery you go back to 19th century standard of living.

Formula for Fascist Success cont'd


The US financial system will sink as surely as the HMS Titanic. Even before the Obama fascists seized control, the unfunded liabilities of the so called 'entitlements' (SS, SSI, Medicare, Medicaid, Drug, etc.) were impossible to meet due to demographics.

Add to this pending collapse the current financing of the Turrd world invasion particularly the Islamics who are almost literally breeding like rats - sustained in this Jihadi activity by the social welfare system.

The rationing is coming and the suckers who paid into this ponzi system won't be anymore 'entitled' to a preferred place in line let alone to any benefit claim - the fascists will determine the distribution system i.e. THE WINNERS AND LOSERS.

It's all there to see as John has pointed out. Only the willfully blind will refuse to see.

And the oldsters - the ones who thought they were voting themselves a free lunch. To you, death will be generously served.

Formula for Fascist Success (correction)
You've already elected an Islamic fascist as president out of guilt.

Will the surrender of your standard of living and loss of your freedoms to the same flimflammery continue to make you feel warm and self satisfied when other nations have taken advantage of your stupidity, improved their standard of living at your expense and found amusement in your naivete?

Here we go again - more deception
" "There is $34 trillion sitting off the balance sheet, waiting for future generations to pay," Herzlinger said. "
-------
That 34 trillion is 75 years into the future total outlays. Let's examine the scary numbers, instead of the 50 million abortions (likely 200 million by 75 years from now) that kill off the new paying supporters into the system.
Currently the federal government collects about 3 trillion a year in all it's money suctions, and spends far more. It doubles it's collection amount every ten years because of the growing populace economy and inflation.
For example, Bill Clintons first budget was 1.2 trillion not 3.8 trillion.
So BY 75 years of America passing, the "unfunded promises" to the babies going into the system now are 34 trillion dollars total. Let's have a look at what the FEDERA: GOVERMENT will have collected in taxes by then.
NOW 3T, and thru 75 tears, doubling every ten years: 6T,12T,24T,48T,96T,192T,384T - THOSE ARE JUST THE DECADE NUMBERS, OMITTING THE 9 YEARS OF COLLECTIONS IN BETWEEN - 7 COLLECTIONS OF 75.
.
Those seven collections add up to= 662TRILLION
Now let's add in the other 68 years of collections, an amount for each year, in rough estimation - we'll take the 5th year in each decade and multiply by 9 for the average of each 9 year period prior omitted.
4.5x9=38, 9x9=91, 18x9=162, 36x9=224, 72x9=648, 134x9=1,306, 288x9=2,592 -we'll leave the last 4 biggest years off...adding...
662 trillion plus the rest..
.
EQAULS FIVE THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED TWENTY THREE TRILLION DOLLARS COLLECTED IN TAXES IN 75 YEARS.
5,723 TRILLION
you think maybe 34 trillion extra is in there somewhere ?
34 trillion sounds like a lot, until you calculate they will have collected 5,723 trillion in taxes to "somehow cover 34 trillion in shortfall".
Better stick with old people and no young people working.
SCREW your 34 trillion.

Uhh, the government isn't the big blame
More bullcrap - the government is the big one to blame for rising healthcare costs..
BULLCRAP.
The thing to blame is : MEDICAL PROCEDURES ARE NOW WORLDS AWAY FROM WHAT THEY WERE IN 1965.
Today, there are pills, and cancer treatments, heart replacements, hip replacements, muliti-million dollar MRI machines, and it will just keep going up up up and away from here.
Soon, multi million dollar genetic tratments, massively expensive micro lasers for removing moles, to recarving eyeball lenses, to million dollar water tanks that redirect watered "sound waves" to blast apart tiny gallbladder rocks.
From what one of my service buddies tells me, at the base in Italy, they gave him a muscle relaxant and bloated him with water, and he had to pass his stone the old fashioned way, like Kramer of Seinfeld -screaming in the circus bathroom - water and a valium costs about 2 bucks.
A super tank computer directed wave-sound water pressure directional stone imploder is MILLIONS.
You can do a million "Kramer stones" before you can pay for one "supertank" method.
How much were carved wooden legs in 1965 ? 50 bucks ? A little tree rubber and a strap or two.
Now specialized appendages for those guarding our safety or recovering from car accidents or the like are how much ? Thousands upon thousands of dollars each.
As medicine gets better, costs skyrocket.
Wasn't too long ago x-rays were unheard of - the doc felt yer broken appendage while you chewed a wooden dowel in half and he set it. Too bad if there were multifractures - no operation and no screwing it together straight.
You limped for life and it cost a good 20 bucks. Now, it's costs 20 grand. You don't limp, after a while.
In 75 years we probably cannot even imagine now what treatments will even be, or what they may cost.

A Bigger Scam than Oil for Food
Think about what he's saying - there is no trust fund. They literally spend the money earmarked for the trust account and replace it with an i.o.u. or t-note. When the t-note is due, they pay it off with another t-note. Eventually they just print more money to pay off the accumulated t-notes - because they're out of money. It's like a laundering scheme because they stealing cash and disguising it as a trust fund.

Carlos' Reply
Carolos, you hit it the nail right on the head!

Dag
"More bullcrap - the government is the big one to blame for rising healthcare costs.. BULLCRAP."

Actually, it's you who's full of it.

Twain was right: There are lies, dam lies and those like you that lie using statistics.

Throw in some supposed case proving anecdotal and your ready to add a QED.

I'm particularly attracted to to your 75 year projection - boy, you libs are sure seers of seers. Everyone of you seem to have some way of seeing the future to suit your purposes - it's either totally disasterous or rosy depending on what line of BS your selling.

75 years ago, a major portion of the population was starving and the fascist in charge, FDR, didn't do mush to improve on that situation with all his spending and sucking the private capital out of the marketplace.

Forty years ago, your average kid would have predicted that man would be on Mars and maybe even further into space. And then came liberal fascism and all it's good intentioned massively expensive failures. It's no coincidence that we are little further along than we were then.

America created most of the scientific and technological breakthroughs of recent centuries that have benefited all mankind - and none of it was due to anything proposed and implemented by liberal fascists and their failed social welfare schemes all meant to satisfy their need and greed for power.

Admit it Mr. Dag - you have a stake it maintaining the big lie.

Carlos
I agree with Linda - it's Weimar Germany all over again. See, that's how you make the currency worthless - keep spending what you don't have. In that way, they've stolen your pension without ever having seized a thing.

The next step is to tax you into poverty. They've already reduced us to serfdom and well past medieval peasantry (they only paid a third of their produce and got land and the manor's defense in return).

The last step is denying all the social obligations that you were forced to 'contribute' to.

It never changes...
1....As a social Security recipient and as a Social Security payer for 40 years of my working life,I have a monetary interest in this argument.Us geezers don't mind if SS is eliminated IF we could have our SS payments we made returned from the government with interest!

Keep in mind that my age group,as an age group,VOTES in very large numbers.Young people don't.In addition,I'll let you in on a very little secret:Children and grandchildren DON'T want SS to end for THEIR elderly because that would mean THEY have to support them and their medical care as we did in the old days.If it is a Ponzi scheme,who wants to be first to drop out?


Who drops out?
The man they take to jail a la Bernie Madoff

Blah, Blah, Blah.
Whatever any of you say, there is no solution. Health care, and who pays for health care, is no problem.

The fact that y'all want to live forever, is the problem.

Like Aaron Sorkin wrote, "You can't handle the truth!"

At the age of 60, virtually all Americans get stupid. They'll vote for anyone promising life everlasting.

Stossel writes....
"But, in fact, the average Medicare beneficiary today collects two to three times more money than he paid in."

This is a false statement because it doesn't adjust for inflation -- the dollars that seniors paid-in over their lifetime were worth 2-3 times more than today's dollars. Also, if the geezers had been allowed to put that money into a compounded interest-bearing account rather than the government's black hole, they'd have more than enough money to purchase top notch medical insurance from the private sector. There's no question that the kids are getting ripped off, but we shouldn't be trying to put the geezers on a guilt trip... they had nothing to do with it.

All right, here goes..1st up,,Dag
Dag, you coolaid drinking fool. My wages didn't double in the last 10 years. They are taking a bigger % of our GDP every year. When our obligations reach 14 to 15 trillion (taxes); that will be every thing we make. Don't you get that?
Nam 65 66. Everyone must be responsible for their own welfare. Baby, if you have the gov't paying you and housing you and WICing you, and free med you; that ends. YOu better find your boyfriend and have him start paying for your brood, cause we are done. Illegal alien, no more free healthcare, or welfare and if you do work, you are not getting a refund check. Artists, no more gov't checks. Enviro whackos, no more saving some snails at the expense of Atlanta water supply. We drill for oil and we drill here, the hell with some endangered species; cause the real endangered species is US! Nam, our generation is the most spoiled self seeking bunch to come down the pike. OUr great hero president John Freaking KEnnedy, got us into a war and gave us LBJ. Thanks alot John! and what did we do? burn our draft cards, protest, hide in school or left the country. OUr politicians wouldn't let us win, just left us out to dry. Now we've got this clown making up the rules as he goes along, casting himself as some kind of genius.

I like what Rush said the other day. These people are junkies for power. And just like the heroine addict that will destroy his own life for a fix; these politicians will destroy us and themselves in the quest to keep more power. And they suck all the losers in with them. Pathetic. Stop with the equal opportunity. Let the market decide. If some girl can't pass the fireman's test, don't lower the test; tell her to quit trying to play lumberjack when she can't handle her end of the log!
If you Kos queers want a European society...Move to Europe! Let this be the land of the free, home of the brave. Nuff said.

Sorry
Mr. Stossel but I have a hard time blaming my fellow seniors for the mess we are in with Medicare, Social Security, et al.

How can you blame seniors when they have been forced to contribute all these years? It would seem to be more logical to blame the politicians that have squandered the vast amount that has been paid into SS coffers and would still be there if not for their manipulation.

Just about any problem facing the U.S. taxpayer today can be placed at the feet of the 'serial' politician. They lie and bleed us dry - all the while feathering their own nest for the good life and the ultimate retirement package.

Anyone with half a brain realizes that ANY program should be 'means tested', and most of the seniors I know agree with me. I for example do not use the SSA drug program because I planned ahead and don't need it. But it is there if I wanted to use it.

It is only common sense that Bill Gates, Donald Trump, etc. should not be considered eligible for SSA benefits - yet they contribute just like everyone else. Say again - COMMON SENSE.

Also, I keep hearing about all the SSA/Medicare fraud - if they know about all this fraud, why do I not hear about all the prison time that is being handed out for this crime?

Why did you not address the huge drag being made on our economy for illegal alien's medical and education well being - are they more legitimate recipients than our seniors?

There is a lot of blame to go around for the financial mess we are in Mr. Stossel, but I submit that the root of this mess can be found in its usual place - with our corrupt federal government!

The Big Lie
Yes, Medicare and SS are pyramid schemes. However, they are SPECIFICALLY promoted as programs that are NOT means-tested. Why should someone who works hard and saves get less benefits that someone who did not?! Why reward a surviving spouse who put very little time into the work force? These programs are NOT a proper role of government. They are symptomatic of the bigger problem: people using government to engage in behavior it would be a sin for individuals to engage in on their own.

Healthcare used to be affordable.

I can remember when healthcare was very affordable in the United States.

For almost 200 years we had community hospitals that would treat the poor for free.

For almost 200 years Doctors knew the people in their community and knew who could pay and who could not.

Insurance companies worried about providing benefits and not cutting costs.

That was before the government decided to get involved.

Just another example of how Liberals have hurt our society.

Who signs up for Medicare?
YOU WILL!
Under today's government regulations you are required to sign up for Medicare when you reach 65, even if still working.
If you don't, you will have reduced benefits when you finally retire and need to sign up.
Maybe many of these wealthy are not so rich they can afford to be without coverage at all so the only option is an extremely expensive private policy or Medicare.
In this case I do not believe anyone here would opt to forgo the cheaper option.
Of course we all know the government knows best so get ready for nationalized healthcare to go with Medicare & social Security.
AH - Social Security.
That program the government robbed of trillions and now tells you that seniors are using to rob the young.

Fixing Things For Dummies!
Hey stupid politicians: fix what is broken and keep what is not broken! This is not a radical concept to understand! Except radicals (er.... politicians in Washingtonville) need to read and follow the nice little Yellow book: "Fixing Things for Dummies"!

Nam65-66 - I'll drop out
I've paid into Social Security and Medicare for 36 years. I'm a little more than a decade from the point where I can begin collecting on these things. I have some investments set aside to support myself in my old age, but not enough. Despite that, I'll be happy if the government ends Social Security and Medicare today. My children will start saving for their retirements far earlier than I did and not have the burden of trying to support all us old guys while struggling to start a family.

So, yeah, I'll drop out because I remember just how tough it was to be young and just starting out. I'll drop out because the younger generation doesn't owe me a living. I'll drop out because it's the only just thing to do. Who's with me?

Interesting, Medicare comments

Before Medicare, families and churches took care of the elderly, most of which lived their final years at home.

Now most of our elderly die far away from their families and churches in 'nursing homes' (places where our senior's remaining monies are taken and where they are neglected until they die a lonely death).

In our culture, long supported by our increasingly socialized government, our youth are glamorized and our elderly are cast aside and dishonored. This is in sharp contrast to other cultures that honor and respect their elders.

Obama has no use for the elderly - they are not productive and merely drain the resources of an otherwise overburdened populace.

In our current socialist state, the elderly will be among the first thrown under the bus by Obama.

Nationalized 'anything' is a huge, cruel joke on the American people and will merely destroy the remains of our once great country.

But, what can we do for our own elderly when we ourselves are becoming increasingly strapped for money by an increasingly onerous and unlawful government?

We begin by taking care of our own families and by forcing our government to obey the law in ALL of its actions. When government lives within its lawful purposes, it will shrink, our taxes will decrease, and we will have more of our own monies to help our own families.

The government has NO business dealing in any social programs, and this ponzi scheme called 'Medicare' has to end before we can proceed further down the road toward our own self determination.

I am within the age of retirement and I realize my comments, if implemented, would effect me also. It's OK. I understand how bad all socialism is for our country, and I’m willing to forego any entitlements due me. I want our country to thrive and prosper, and I understand it can't do so under an unlawful and socialistic government.

We must return to our Founder's limited government - only then will these problems get resolved.

Stunned-Nv...
...I am NOT of your generation!I am of the one that came just before yours.We have always held your 60's generation in contempt!

Looks like a big mess..
to me! How about they just give me back exactly what they stole out of my income. I'll put it in trust for my heirs and die younger than I would have if the whole ugly thing had never been started in the first place.

I have no health insurance now and it looks like I won't have any through Medicare whether they "fix" it or not.

This will become government's reason to extend abortion rights to children of elderly parents who become inconvenient.

More class warfare designed to insulate
pols from any responsibilty.
The retired military folks better get together real quick because the magic one will be looking to screw us out of our bennies first because ours come from DC.

We always got short-changed, when I joined the Navy over 50 years ago, a CPO made $175 a month in retirement, most people make that in a day now. They paid us chump change for risking our necks punching holes in the ocean and promised world class health care after retirement. After many years of fighting for it, we finally got it in the Tri-care system....8 to 5 that'll be first on the chopping block when this clown gets rolling, any bets?


Too little, too late!
When private citizens create a Ponzi scheme they go to jail. When Congress creates one, they get reelected. Both depend upon the greed and stupidity of the masses. By ignoring fiscal responsibilities this current administration is creating a Ponzi government of monumental proportions, greatly speeding up the timetable for our societal collapse. Americans through greed and stupidity have elected a politician who promised the impossible! Like a snake oil salesman, Obama has captured their imagination. But unlike the snake oil salesman's harmless elixir, Obama's manipulations will kill the country.

Highlandder Juan
What you describe is the lot for the elderly who were fortunate enough to have a family or a church in the area that could afford to provide for them. A lot of elderly simply lived on cat food or had to work or beg until they were too sick to do so and then they died.

So what is Stossel's point that Medicare should be means tested. There is certainly some logic to that, but what would Rush and Hannity and the wingnut community say about that, spreading the wealth. Stossel's truthful though incomplete look at medicare looks pretty indepensable, so why dosent't he call for a means test? The next logical thing is to ask why the wealth should get social security and then why should there be a cap.

When speaking about tax cuts the right loves to point out how it will effect small business. You would never hear a stossel example where they talked about the effect on the mega rich. Same thing here. John why don't you do you next column on poor elderly people who did not have the fortune to work in a union job and what benefits they get and how their life would change if these programs were eliminated.

Any of you who are in favor of a means test for medicare and social security and elimating the cap please say so.

If you just want to get rid of these things cause their are SOCIALIST just say so.

Government is a Fat-Fingered Lummox
Medicare is an excellent example of government's ability to singlemindedly achieve a specific goal while clumsily fumbling tradeoffs.

The simple goal is free medicine for seniors. To achieve that, just have the doctor bill the government. But the tradeoff is that when doctors know they'll get paid, they don't control costs. So costs spiral out of control.

One other note: technology is not magic. Some scientific and engineering problems will never be solved; no starship captain will ever be beamed from one location to another. Remember that when someone proposes technology as a salvation.

Seawolf
But seawolf it your Republican friends that are the first to screw you. They may love you as a symbol when you are wearing the uniform, but once you retire they just see you are another group looking for an entitlement. (which in private Republican Parlance means a handout)

Whould anyone in their right mind want to trust the VA to Republicans? Remeber how many Republicans opposed the New GI bill put up by a real friend of Vets Jim Webb.

Time and time again Republicans have shown that they are more interested in protecting the rights of trust fund babies than vets.

This is just one of the reasons that Jim Webb is a Democrat. Maybe its time for you to change your voter card to the party who really takes care of its vets.

Walt:
Anyone with half a brain realizes that the programs shouldn't be.

What about the Medical Practices?
One thing not mentioned is that the government requires medical practices to not charge the patient higher than the Maximal Allowable charge for Medicare recipients. And doctors are not allowed to take a charitable tax writeoff between the amount that Medicare pays and the usual and customary charge. So, for example, Donald Trump turns 65. He sees a doctor - the usual charge for other patients (such as the young, who are early in their wage earnings)would be $100. Medicare pays the doctor $30, the patient pays $5, and the practice forgoes $65 worth of reimbursement - and the practice is forbidden by law from billing Mr Trump for the other $65. Not to mention that the elderly typically have more complicated health problems and are on more meds than the young. So doctors limit the number of Medicare patients in their practice, making longer waits for appts, and more elderly getting their care in the Emergency Dept. The government should get rid of the billing cap - it is Ok for the gov't to say this is how much we will reimburse, but the practice should either be allowed to balance bill or claim the difference as a charitable tax writeoff.

hvogel
You know you don't have to apply for your benefits. How much you wanna bet when you get to the day you will take the check.

picking up the tab
What about those that actually work, pay taxes and pick up the tab for medicaid?

The Power of Compound Interest
Stossel writes that Medicare is failing because seniors today are taking between 2 and 3 times out what they "paid" into the "fund."

Compounding level payments annually for 40 years at 5% produces over 3 times the amount invested.

Assuming Stossel's numbers are correct, IF the money had actually been invested by the government in any reasonable way there would be no shortfall.

Pelosi and Reid are
to Congress what Uday and Kusay (Sp) were to Iraq at the behest of our dear leader, raping and pillaging their own people.

Why people cannot look at the debacle of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid and not see the train wreck coming when they add ALL the uninsured into national healthcare is beyond me.

This administration is doing so much so fast it is difficult to keep up, much less do anything about it.

If you read Alinsky's Rules for Radicals and the Communist Manifesto you will begin to get the picture of our future.

JMO51
You say that Jim Webb is a Democrat. I've studied Jim Webb and read most of his books. I like him a lot... I like the way he thinks. But he is a Democrat because there was an easy-to-win Democrat slot open for a Virginia senate seat. Webb was (and still is) a center-right conservative. So don't kid yourself -- had the easy slot been Republican, he'd be a Republican senator. He was a Republican during the Reagan and Bush #1 administrations.

JMO51 8:14AM
"......Maybe its time for you to change your voter card to the party who really takes care of its vets."

Hmmm...wasn't it a DEMOCRATIC administration that recently considered a proposal that veterans ought to pay for their service related health problems with their own private insurance? Let me look for just a minute...why, here it is! From CNN March 10, 2009:
Quote
Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki confirmed Tuesday that the Obama administration is considering a controversial plan to make veterans pay for treatment of service-related injuries with private insurance.
End quote

Yep...really taking care of the veterans, this hope-n-change Obama administration!

on the dole
If you are on government assistance of ANY kind you should not get to vote in National elections.

Its funny that judges must recluse themselves if they or a family member have a personal stake in the case, but people living off SS/Mediscare can vote themselves more goodies ad infinitum.

boo
THat was a news story. What happened in the end. The veterans groups expressed a concern and the Admininstration dropped the proposal. Thats the kind of leadership that I want. One that listens to Vet groups and can change its plan. You where I learned that on MSNBC so I will stick to my party, buts lets get back to that New GI bill. Which Republicans actually VOTED against it. Good for us that they were in the minority.


JMO51 NY May 20, 2009 - 8:05 AM EST

You said:
If you just want to get rid of these things cause their are SOCIALIST just say so.

=========

I assume your comments are directed to other posters, because I was pretty clear in my comments regarding having our government abide by the Constitution and ridding our country of ALL socialist programs. Including Medicare and Social Security.

Medicare Debate
Yes, John, go to Florida and talk to the rich old people there, and you get a different story. I am 73, still working after graduating from college 51 years ago, and acquiring two additional advanced degrees. I work because I need the extra income in today's economy. Therefore, I continue to pay taxes, and pay into Social Security, and Medicare just like younger workers. It's the younger workers today who think they're "entitled" to have...whatever they want. They'll have to work for their retirement benefits, just as the rest of us have. Because of my years of working in health care, I am a firm believer in universal health care coverage, and I don't care if it's private, public, or a public-private partnership, but it must be affordable for every citizen. Unfortunately, health care in the USA is a privilege, not a right. (By the way, why are we required by law to have auto insurance?)

GraceNotes

SS & Medicare
Preamble: My wife & I are in our late 70's. I started working like a man at 13. Started paying taxes & SS at 15; entered military (AAF) in '46 at 17, retired from military (USAF) in ’67 at 38 with pension & civilian job at 65 with no pension in '94, went on SS; then Tricare-for-Life in 2002 when government passed the legislation (I was promised this when I first enlisted but it didn’t happen until ‘02). I am a veteran of WW2, Korea, & Vietnam; served honorably 21+ years; am Life Member of American Legion & DAV. I paid taxes all my working life & Medicare premiums.
My wife & I married in ’50; she never worked much so she paid hardly anything into SS or Medicare; she started SS in '94 at age 62, then Medicare at age 65, then Tricare as dependent spouse in ‘02. We raised 4 children, pay our taxes & mortgages, pay our debts on time, carry no credit card balances, never a credit risk. We do not consider ourselves a burden on U.S. taxpayers. We contribute a greater percentage of our yearly income to charitable causes than Obama or Biden from they reported. (continued)

SS & Medicare (conclusion)
The liberals in government set up these ‘welfare’ programs starting with FDR & LBJ. I would have been content to have provided for my own retirement on my own, but I wasn’t given a choice. (The military pension & Tricare came with my military career so I feel I am entitled to that.)
Now we pay medicare premiums, & pay income taxes on our SS even though officially we are in the poverty class. We have a modest retirement portfolio that allows us to own a modest house & enjoy a modest lifestyle. We don’t have much life insurance but we do have long-term care insurance so as not to burden our children or society. We are careful not to abuse Medicare or Tricare.
Why doesn’t the government institute means testing for SS & Medicare regardless of past contributions? Let it be like life insurance: if not needed, then do not recoup premiums. I would not have any problem paying into the system but not collecting later if I had the financial resources to pay my own way. (Not so sure about Medicare; it is health insurance to be used if necessary regardless of means.)
I would favor SS being phased out & let people provide for their own retirement. Let current SS recipients remain in the system until they die, including spousal entitlement & dependent/disabled children.
Reform Medicare to eliminate fraud & waste. Reform the entire welfare system. Make it more like it was before Medicare when States and local governments provided for those unable to care for themselves. It wasn’t perfect, but at least no one suffered hardships. Phase out Medicare and let people provide for their own health care.
We have to stop relying on a bloated Federal government and oppressive taxes to support a socialist society. The system has to be changed so that the States (and the people) are the checks and balances against the Federal system, just like our Constitution was originally intended.

michigander
I agree that Webb is no liberal. Just more proof that the Dems are the big tent party. And with Webbs opposition to the war in Iraq, I doubt that he could have survived a Republican Primary. I am sure that Webb would be the first one to agree with you that there was a lot of reasons why he felt aligned with the old Republican Party before it got taken over by the wingnuts. So if you are a Jim Webb type conservative I think you should come on over to the Democrat's side. By the way Webb is not alone there are other conservatives in the Democratic Caucus and they are gonna get a lot more powerful as their votes are needed to reach 60 in the Senate.

So Seawolf if you care about Vets come join the party that walks the walk.


H Juan
Yes, to other posters but espectially in response to Stossel who uses wealthy people getting medical care as a bait and switch.

Medicare Ponzi Scheme
Mr. Stossel I didn't see it mentioned in your article that Medicare isn't free. My husband and I pay close to $100 each every month for Medicare. We also have our own private supplement that we pay $1500 a year for. We are playing this game by the governments rules, and they are getting ready to change the name of the game. Soon we all will be getting their brand of health care. Everything will be equal and fair. Happy Now?

Private Business & Unions
My take on this is that if a business goes bust, the union goes bust, too. The union contributed to the company's success and also its failure, so let it share both the success and the failure. Government has no business bailing anyone out: no business is 'too big to fail.' If company AND union management make wrong decisions, or their products and/or services do not sell, then they have to be allowed to fail. They can resort to appropriate bankruptcy procedures just like anybody else.
We have to keep government out of private enterprize.

Amazing what politicians do for Votes
Since their inceptions every one of the "Take care of Every Man" programs has dragged down our government. That's how I know "Universal Healthcare" will hurt the strength of our nation. I'm one of those X-ers

In high school, we followed th WSJ so we would know how to invest so that when SS and Medicare were gone we couldn't say,"Nobody told me." The criticism made when my generation was labled (by a Baby Boomer)was that my generation was resentful of the obligations that come with being "Born!"

Ha-ha! I was raised better than that. C-mon. Baloney.

What is happening, and pro-life peeps like me argue, is that people rely on government to take care of EVERYONE now. Obligation for family eroded when the discussion of "Value of Life," or let me put it another way..

When you get back to the abortion issue and the death penalty issue and you put those out there, the real moral question is "Where do we stop?"

No one says Euthanasia is a good idea now.. but if the free thinkers from the seventies were too poor and too young to raise children and decided they were going to abort, even if they regret it later, by the rules of "An eye for an eye," if their children are too poor to care for elderly parents, couldn't the same rules apply?

That's what Boomers should fear because abortion and any human life issue relate to humanity and THAT is "Divinely inspired."

I really like that there is awareness of these issues but I agree with many who watch politics to see what policy changes to expect and to see if we lose something or gain something from policy. It would be suicide for politicians to do anything about this. Bottom line-elderly people vote.

Politicians
Face it,it was pols that messed this up.LBJ and the dems that controlled congress are the main culprits.They couldn't keep their greedy paws off all that money to spend on their socialist programs.As a retiree both the wife and I work part time to supplement our income.We still pay into SS and medicare,as does any person on SS

MEDICARE
I have a mother and mother-in-law. One is 92 and the other is 89. Both my father and father in law are deceased. Between the four of them, our government has paid for three open heart surgeries, a hip replacement,and three rerouting of veins because of diabetes. My mother in law is in a nursing home and sees a doctor at least once a week - maybe more. They think nothing of putting her in the hospital for tests. Medicare is unsustainable with the length of time people are living. I cannot count all the women I know who are pushing 90.

There are no easy answers. I thank God for Medicare because all of them would be bankrupted if not for Medicare. There is no insurance company who will take people past 65 so what is a senior to do? I tell my kids that I am doing them a favor by smoking!

J. DC May 20, 2009 - 8:59 AM EST

You said:
(By the way, why are we required by law to have auto insurance?)

===============

The answer to your question is wrapped up in admiralty law and its evolution onto the land. The first insurance was for seagoing vessels and their loads, and as they plied their way up rivers, started the process of moving on to the land. Next we had trucks carrying the previously insured shiploads of products on the land and having accidents with automobiles which, at the time, did not require driver's licenses or insurance.

Since the last thing an insurance company wants is to pay out claims, the insurance companies had to get control of the automobiles. That's when traveling by automobile became a state delegated ‘privilege,’ instead of the Magna Carta gained freedom and right of travel by whatever means available.

Along with the control of the newly privileged 'driver's came the requirement for automobile insurance by way of the state’s ‘vehicle code’ laws.

If you want to have some fun with your auto insurance company, call them up and tell them you want to change your policy to cover only yourself, much like your homeowner’s policy, and you do not want to cover other drivers.

After they tell you they can't do that, and after you ask them why, they will tell you it's against the law. Ha ha.

So now you have two handicaps.

1. You're now considered a legislatively controlled driver, just like a limo driver, or a truck driver, even though you are NOT carrying people or property for a fee (Bouvier’s classic legal definition of a driver).

2. You now have a contractual obligation to carry your state's driver's license with you at all times, and are forced, by your signature, to obey all of the state's 'driver's' rules, including the insurance laws, etc.

So, you’re screwed until you regain your freedom to travel as a matter right, rather than as a state granted privilege.

I hope this is helpful.

Yesteryear vs Today
I grew up learning values of self-reliance, personal responsibility & accountability for one's own actions, including thrift, frugality, the 10 commandments and golden rule, capitalism & free enterprise.
Recent generations (from WW2 forward) were not taught these values; on the contrary, they grew up expecting everything NOW. Play now, pay later. Enjoy all the luxuries today, pay for it on credit regardless of the consequences. No personal responsibility, no accountability for one's own actions. Vote for the candidate who promises something or anything for nothing; don't bother to learn what governments should be all about or what candidates really stand for.
No wonder we are in deep doo-doo. We have a Federal Reserve system that is actually a Ponzi scheme, and currency that isn't worth the paper it's printed on. We have politicians promising anything and legislating anything that will keep them in power and continue lining their pockets.
Why should we expect anything else?

Michigander, Webb is spineless and
has no principles whatsoever. He fits in perfectly with the Dems. He is not conservative in the least, he flows with the polls and the polls are rigged. He and Murtha are the only 2 "EX-marines" that I have ever heard of.

Pyramid
The top is in sight.

JMO51
Jim Webb is a lot like Arlen Specter: Political party and idealogy has very little to do with their ambitions -- they just want to be senators. The crucial test for me will be whether Webb will vote for the left-wing supreme court choice that Obama will surely nominate.

WHEN IS IT TIME TO DIE?

.....With artificial help medical science can keep people alive well past their expiration date ...they are literally zombies ...the walking dead ...

.....Maybe LOGAN'S RUN had the answer ...

.....JOKE: ...Doctor tells his patient that he can live ten years longer if he gives up cigars, whiskey and women ...the patient replies, "If I have to give up all that why would I want to live another ten years"? .....COLOSSUS

What is fair?
From Rusty:
"Mr. Stossel I didn't see it mentioned in your article that Medicare isn't free. My husband and I pay close to $100 each every month for Medicare. We also have our own private supplement that we pay $1500 a year for. We are playing this game by the governments rules, and they are getting ready to change the name of the game. Soon we all will be getting their brand of health care. Everything will be equal and fair. Happy Now?"

Rusty let me point something out. You are paying $225 a month for a benefit that if you bought on the free market (if such a thing existing in the real world of insurance) would cost would cost many times that amount. Most likely over $1,000 per month. Basically you can consider Medicare free.

One thing that John Stossel did not address is the unfairness of not providing the same thing for everyone. If I plan well for my old age medical care then I pay out of my paycheck for many years the 'tax' and the savings (my plan). So I do without so that i can have health insurance/pay for medical care in old age. My neighbor does not and then the armed might of government takes away from me to care for him/her. Talk about not fair. How about the US Constitution does not provide the Federal Government the power to do this at all and we leave it at that.

That is my plan. I will take care of myself and others through charity and the government provides nothing with health care.

Few here understand an unfunded liabilit
Here comes the professional auditor to the rescue.

An unfunded liability is what you have to pay out TODAY in an interest bearing account to be able to fund all the future expenditures promised. This $34 trillion number isn't the total cost from today through 2080, it is how much we have to scrape together, TODAY, and put into a NON-Government interest bearing account (market account) to be able to keep the entire thing from falling apart with the current amount of taxes we're putting into the system. This means, to avoid a massive increase in the Medicare witholding, we need to get $34 trillion immediately.

The US GDP is $13 trillion. We need to tax all earnings at 100% for the next three years and spend money nowhere else just to be able to keep Medicare from falling apart, and this is assuming we get an actual trust fund and not $34 trillion in Treasury bills.

And yes, this is the fault of the elderly. It was their generation that supported this mess, it should be their generation to sacrifice to fix it.

Wait a minute
Social securtiy and Medicare are not entitlement programs! Havent you noticed they have been billing us everytime we recieve a paycheck? It doesnt matter how much you make you have been forced to pay in so why in the hell shouldnt you be allowed to collect? What needs to happen is that our thieving leaders who fleeced the social security funds years ago need to find that money and return it to its proper place! I pay in and I want my money back plain and simple!

Simple
12 year olds can't vote

Simplifying a complicated situation
The price of Stossel's argument doesn't hold a lot of water for me. Be it Medicare or SS, we made an investment. In my case as an employer I not only paid for me, but matched the cost of each of my employees. But as Stossel points out it was a Ponzi scheme from the beginning. It was neither a trust or paid to a trust-worthy entity, the government. Had the money been invested, it would not have run out. If there is an ounce of conservative thought in anyone's bones, then it needs to be looked at as everyone being equal with equal rights to Medicare and SS. It is not reasonable to say to people who have contributed their lifetime that you are not now eligible to receive benefits, because we have to give them to someone else. I own the benefits not the congress and not the man in the White House. They have no right to redistribution.Yes it was a Ponzi scheme, no we did not have an option to opt out.

Are we going to make the system solvent by spending trillion on bailouts? I don't think so. If government was so careless with mandated SS and Medicare, what makes anyone think they will be able to run auto companies and banks? General Motors and Chrysler are gone, Government Motors is not going to save them. If Obama can walk on water, let him save the system without putting his hands in my pockets.

The big problem
Is the sweet deal given to insurance companies. I am 73 and pay the same rate for my BC/BS as I would if I were working, however Medicare is the primary payer and the insurance company only pays 20% of what medicare authorizes. I really did not want to sign up for Medicare since I could continue to pay the deductibles on BC/BS, the government promised to penalize me if I didn't sign up at once and I could not get a firm answer from BC/BS if they would pay as they always had or would only pay what they would have to with Medicare even if I chose not to sign up for Medicare.
Once things are under the control of politicians they will get screwed up. Now we want the whole country covered.
Don't forget how much is poured out to cover those on SSKI.

By the way
I remember when the Dems were intent on pushing thru Medicare to buy votes that doctors and others with some common sense tried to tell them that we would eventually face exactly what is happening.

HOW TO SAVE YOUR ESTATE

.....AND DIE WITH DIGNITY ...

.....When your quality of life becomes burdensome do not go to see a doctor ...

.....Break out the good wine, pop your favorite movie in the DVD, take a few pills and go to sleep ...

.....ALTERNATE PLAN: Let your doctor schedule expensive operations and drugs to help you cling to life ...then when you become totally disabled and indigent let the government put you into a nursing home with others who are waiting to die (in Vietnam the medics called this the "dying room") ...then finish out your life in a stupor drooling over yourself in a bed that reeks of urine .....COLOSSUS

Frederick
Spot On! No way no how am I willing to give up the money Ive paid in! If any politician even hints at doing away with social security and medicare, Ill be picketing in the streets! The thugs in DC can find trillions for everything: foreign aide to those that hate us, funding abortions, supporting illegal aliens, Wall Street Bankers, Automakers, lucrative gov't contracts for their cronnies, etc. etc. I want my benefits that I have been paying for all my life!!!!!

Re: Yesteryear vs Today
Ernest, I respectfully disagree. Those values are taught to children within families and I assure you, I was raised with those same values that you espouse.

I love my parents and miss my grandmothers. I do not believe in having others care for those who raised me to become the adult that I am. They are mine and I am theirs.

As far as frugality, my husband and I have managed somewhat ably, primarily on his income, as a Marine for the past thirteen years. I manage to PTO a little and volunteer at my childrens' school.We currently are living below our means so that by next year we can be debt free (except our debt to the government).

I have a cousin who is a career politician. I don't like that he is a democrat but his position is at the state level and as I believe in States Rights over Federal Rights, I can vote for who I like. He is a nice guy.

I think I can agree with you though about the Fed Reserve. It may worknow but that will only go so far. Once again gov't too big for its britches!

Well
Why can't we blame the seniors? Aren't they the ones who raised the thieving bashtards that are currently in charge? Aren't they the ones who raised children who would rather have more stuff than more children? Aren't they the ones who raised the children who started the greatest slaughter of innocents in the history of mankind? Some seniors did a lot of good, but too many raised children too like themselves. If we will have anything for our old age, we had better be about getting it squirreled away now because the seniors are spending their childrens' inheritance now and laughing about it.

A Bargain
Here is a proposed Grand Bargain:

The productive members of society will continue to pay the Medicare tax to continue to support the unproductive, hence worthless and pointless, existence of retirees. In return, as the leeches die off, the tax is phased out.

Is this a bill everyone could get behind?


florida
Understand what you're saying. I'm only 31- I'll give up my benefits, and pay out (only what people have payed in plus a small adjustment for cost of inflation) to those older than me. Then, we can end an unjust system where wealth is involuntarily redistributed from one group to another. The gubmint should've never gotten involved in such things to begin with. It discourages responsible behavior- taking care of your health, saving for retirement, etc. and is none of their business!

By the way, they 'found' these trillions through borrowing until even the Chinese don't want to lend to us anymore, and probably through printing money. Say bye, bye, savings!!!

Horse whippings
You and Peterson are typical govermental types that promise workers a contractual deal and when the time becomes tough it's convienent to beat up on the elderly who already did the job. I watched it with my Tricare which I served 22 years in the United States Army(444 days as a POW) go from free medical care for you and your family if you did a minimum of 20 years to now rearranging Social Security/Medicare for the benifit of the congresses benifits and the cheating of we that worked in the pits for 50+ years believing in our government to be honest and truthful. I teach my children,grandchildren,and great grandchildren to NEVER trust the government or politician!!!! Donald R Hohman CWO(Ret)USA POW

Who’s to blame?
As one of those greedy seniors, I would like to comment on Medicare. First seniors don’t have a choice. When I reached age 65 my private insurance co. (Blue Cross) dropped my policy and attempted to get me to sign up with them for their Medicare (extra)coverage.

Second, it’s not FREE. I personally pay $250.00 a month for my coverage, after I was FORCED to pay for into the SS/Medicare fund for 50 years. I am 70 years old and have accrued about $500.00 in Medicare paid bills over the past 5 years. Yet I keep hearing that I am stealing from taxpayers. I didn’t ask for this situation, it was forced on me by Congress. Not any President. It is Congress that passes these laws. Only Congress can fix it.

It was and is Congress that sets the tax rates to fund these INSURANCE premiums. Actually over charges, as these are supposed to be a pay-as-you-go plans, yet since the beginning they have overcharged to create a TRUST FUND that they steal from every year. It’s Congress that decided to provide SSI funds to all sorts of folks that have never paid in and may be illegal. The sick the lame and the lazy, all get to draw from the fund.

The young have reason to complain, but complain to those responsible, CONGRESS. Maybe they will have enough sense to stop sending these crooks back to Washington every 2 years. Imagine how the SS system would change if Congress was forced to use it as their golden parachute.

Healthcare
And now we think that Big Government can run a single payer health care system and do it better than Medicare? Really!

Government never runs anything well, period dot , next case.

I don't think anyone is laughing
Socialized healthcare IS what is going to happen. You aren't going to get seniors or politicians who count on those votes to "Say" they it's good to reduce benefits. It is a fact that it is going to happen.

The "Nice face" that Pres. Obama is trying to put on Universal Healthcare shows he knows where Medicare/aid and Social Security are. The problem is, you can't run these programs together. We can't afford it.

It doesn't have to do with individual values. It doesn't have to do with political affiliation.It has to do with votes. If Democrats continue to attempt this they will lose seats.

They shouldn't have them to begin with for the most part. Who is represented by N Pelosi flying to the Bay several times a month? It's sick.

No worries though. I can't imagine what she's going to answer for if she lies about a visit with Pope Benedict XVI.

Stolen Money
Congress (mostly democrats) created this mess. If the "trust fund" balances had not been stolen from us and if the benefits of social security had not been provided to others (for political vote buying purposes) then both social security and medicare would have more than likely fully funded. If my ss/medicare tax and my employer's matching taxes had truely been held for us (as in invested like a 401k fund)rather than spent for general fund purposes, then not only would I probably be receiving at least twice as much monthly but I would also be able to leave a balance for my beneficiaries. Not only that, but congress (mostly democrats) caused the current financial meltdown with irresponsible social engineering projects.... resulting in my small 401k being severly assaulted.... all for the purpose of buying votes for themselves. WE NEED TO ELIMINATE CAREER POLITICIANS.... TERM LIMITS ARE A MUST.

Ah Baseball Doc...
you're just an unrequited pollyanna, sunny optimist at heart, you old softie.

Your Alternate Plan is sure to be a classic.

Medicare Oversight
It appears that there might have to be a "graduated table of standards" which determine the extent to which seniors may have to contribute to the upkeep of medicare. It should probably be connected to the "poverty level" which would determine a minimum (or zero) contribution, and graduated upwards as the senior's level of affluence increases. In absolutely NO WAY should the amount or quality of care provided be decreased, nor should the concept of "triage" be insinuated into this proposal.

JMO51
I'm not sure but I believe you have to joing medicare at a certain age -- it's not like SS.

Does any senior on here know.

I remember my children's great-grandma
complain about the high property taxes ($1200.00 on a $300,000 home) that she had to pay to fund schools. Shouldn't the parents have to pay for their own children? she asked. When I pointed out that these same children would be paying for her Medicare, she got mad, but she didn't say anything else.

Now age warfare
When are you so called jounalist going to stop driving a wedge between groups of Americans such as gays and straights, religious and non- believers, liberals and conservatives, African-Americans and Whites. I believe peaceful unity would not make any money for folks like Mr. Stossel. Google Mr. Stossel and read that he is a libertarian that dislikes most government programs. He has been often criticised in the past for only taking one side of an issue. I am sure that Mr. Stossel also is very well off financially.

For full disclosure,I am a senior on Social Security. I have paid in all of my 42 years of work. Not to mention that my employer also paid in to the fund. It is not the seniors fault that these funds were robbed by the federal government for other purposes. Most of my friends would be agreeable to means testing.
However it will not go down well if this program is eliminated entirely.

Mr. Stossel has a right to his opinion, as do I. As readers and citizens, we also have a right to disclosure. The only why you will ever get it is by doing a little research on the so called experts.

End the deception it now...
If you are under the age of 35, you will no longer pay the payroll taxes: either FICA or Medicare. However, you will be required to take care of yourselves when you are retired or disabled.

If you do not have health insurance at work, purchase a major medical policy. When you hit 60, purchase a long-term care policy.

You have just solved the looming health insurance crisis completely by using the private sector.

Open a Roth or IRA account and contribute the maximum to your 401K or equivalent account at work, purchase a long-term disability policy, and, if you are married, purchase term insurance up to 10 times your annual income.

You have just solved the looming social security crisis completely by using the private sector.

For everyone over 35, you have the option of cashing out of social security and Medicare, but you will be forced to invest the distributions into private insurance and IRA style investments, unless you can prove financial independence.

For everyone, if you think you might fall through the cracks, start being a servant to your families, friends, neighbors, private social organizations, and churches. You will find that the cracks will disappear. If you extend a hand to those in need, they will extend a hand to you.

For those who choose to remain in government healthcare and retirement programs, payroll taxes will continue. For all, income taxes will increase to cover the deficit between payroll tax revenues and social security and Medicare expenditures, at least until the institution a fair tax or flat tax system. There will be no more income tax shell games.

Tomorrow, we will solve the welfare problem.

It is all about following the pea...../.
Tell the kids that I, as a senior, feel ripped off by them not bothering to get an education. Without the kids putting out the effort in math and science they won't be able to find a job better than "Mickey D's"!

Unseen Consequences
Another consequence of higher insurance costs & deductibles—many young adults to middle-agers put off preventative care and check-ups because they cannot afford them.
The long-term effect will be a generation of people with health problems that could have been averted had they been caught earlier.
Also, I know many people who are trying holistic remedies because they feel that traditional medicine is no longer available to them because of costs & restrictions.
If as a result of inadequate medical care, these coming generations have so many health problems that they are unable to work earlier than predicted, this whole "ponzi" scheme will fall apart as those who should be paying in to support it will be unable to do so,

Stossel, please
No one in government is concerned about Medicare -- they're not planning for it to be there much longer.

It's irrelevant as to what has been budgeted or appropriated for what -- the entire medical industry is about to be torn down and restructured. It's already begun and when it's finished, it will matter not as to who doesn't have what access to this treatment or the other, or who is otherwise -- left out in the cold.

The entire "Health Care" debate isn't and never has been, about the health care of the American people. The Left wants socialized medicine as as means of regulating and controlling the activities of the American people. Once they have it, they will dictate what you can eat, drink, smoke, drive, wear, have in your home and everything else from A to Z. And they will get away with it by claiming that all the regulations are made to: "Save taxpayers money on Health Care costs."

The "Health Care" scam is about controlling the lives of the American people -- they couldn't give a rat's behind about any real "health care". And they are not interested in the least about Medicare and what will happen to it.

Terry
You are right.To the left it is all about power.If you want to see what the libs want to do with health care,look at what they are doing to the american automobile companies.They are going to force you to drive certain cars,You can bet your bippy,that they won't drive them.They will still have their limos

stupid promises
if you actually looked at the debate over social security in the 1930's it was not a slam dunk.

they worried about the moral hazard and the ponzi nature of the whole thing.

FDR was not a hero. He was an economic idiot!!

Lib healthcare
There will be alot of truly ticked off fat Liberals once Obama's plan goes thru.

SS & the 2-cent Dollar
RodT:

I had the same experience; once you are eligible for Medicare the private insurance companies will not (or is it cannot) even talk to you.

When I went to the SS office to apply for SS I was the only person (out of an estimated 40 or so) that had grey hair. My best estimate is that most were under the age of 25 so don't be quick the equate SS and elderly. What's worse is if any of the other 39 spoke any English they keep it a secret.

Being as stupid as I was when the REAL MONEY THAT WAS BACKED BY GOLD was being confiscated, I believed that SS would be something that could be relied on. Does anyone else remember the fight that Roosevelt had with those that, with an R after their name, opposed the original SS legislation? FDR was ask, "How do you expect to fund SS?" His answer was, "With the 10 cent Dollar." Part of our problem is we now have a 2 or 3-cent Dollar.

I've been drawing SS benefits for about 16 years but remain active in a small business. The interesting part is that for at least 10 of those years I've paid more in SS taxes than the benefits. Like Reagan said, "Government is not the solution, government is the problem."

Which would you choose...???

This country was founded by self-sufficient visionaries that knew one could better take care of oneself and family, if left alone by a big intrusive government. They knew the responsibilities of government were to make sure they had the opportunities to do so without interfering with their abilities to do just that.

Yet; where have all these self-sufficient visionaries gone. I cannot find one at any level of government and government at all levels gets bigger and more expensive with each passing day. How do I know this...Governments continue to get bigger and more expensive; and limits my ability to choose...

Bigger and Expensive...yes! Look at the size and cost of governments now verse just 50 years ago; and total up all the taxes you pay...locale, city, state, federal, and fees/taxes charged by commercial enterprises. I did and found that 47% of all my income goes to paying these taxes. Taxes are way too high and totally out of the control of "We The People".

Making choices consists of the mental process of thinking involved with the process of judging the merits of multiple options and selecting one of them for action.

Most people regard having choices as a good thing, though a severely limited or artificially restricted choice can lead to discomfort with choosing and possibly, an unsatisfactory outcome. In contrast, unlimited choice may lead to confusion, regret of the alternatives not taken, and indifference in an intrusive and unstructured existence.

Which would you choose...???

http://incongress.blogtownhall.com/

Your Daughter's College Trust
Let's say that the Mother and Daughter herself have primarily funded the Trust. Now imagine the Father spending the Trust on a yacht and throwing in an i.o.u. for what he took. That's what they've been doing. The Feds are that sleazy.

Medicare as a Ponzi Scheme
Mr. Stossel,

As one of those on Soc.Sec./Medicare, I want to PROTEST!!! We paid into that fund all of our working lives. That fund was guzzled (Stolen)by the Congress of the USA to the tune of over a TRILLION dollars for their pet pork projects. They left a bunch of IOUs and went merrily on their way -- After all, they didn't have to pay into Soc. Sec. because they have their own HIGH paying jobs (for which they can raise their COLAs each year) and their own HIGH paying pensions for life, PLUS their own private paid insurance, no matter how long they are in Congress.

Use some of THEIR money to pay back the IOUs they have taken from the Soc. Sec./Medicare fund. Maybe some of the million/billionaires can live without SS funds, but Believe me, we older folk, who had been paying for 50+ years, during low wage years, cannot make it without SS/Medicare. Besides, We 80+ folk are dropping off quite fast. We set it up for you young whippersnappers to live high on the hog!! Some of us are STILL living frugally to get by!! YOU are the ones who want to SPEND trillions!!!

Mutteringly, Phazed

Phyllis - don't shoot the messenger
Now you know how Jack Madoff's Clients' feel. Unfortunately, you and I got had by Uncle Sam. The difference is that you'll still get paid.

I woud buy the first ticket

There should be a thousand Kevorkian Rooms in this country, open 24/7 to all comers.

I propose to start the Kevorkian Airline, an airline that will fly a mile high, push the needle, fly 100 miles over the ocean, then kick open the door, jump over the side, and sadistic fools would not be able to stop it. I would sell a million tickets in the first five minutes.

How about the Kevorkian Cruise Line, with one-way tickets, good for 500 miles out in the ocean?

Some say "Let God take you." and I say "Let God keep you alive" not a bunch of fools with a bunch of pills, wires, and tubes.

What gives you the right to tell me that I can't fly Kevorkian Airline?


Boomsday
By Christopher Buckley.

Pay the Boomers $1M to off themselves before reaching retirement. Make the payment tax-deductible so they can will it to their heirs.

Solves five problems:
1. Social Security
2. Medicare
3. Gets the Boomers off the planet - the 2nd-WORST generation in the history of the known universe.
4. Fixes the economic mess - Boomers will stop screwing the world, and they'll doubtless spend the money immediately since they never were taught to save or care about anyone other than themselves, including their kids (a trait they learned form their parents - the WORST generation, as evidenced by these wealthy folks refusing means testing their intergenerational handouts, as well as the fact that they raised the Boomers).
5. Gets the Boomers out of government - they've done more than enough damage and it's time for them to go. Starting with the most famous, final Boomer, Obama (b. 1963 - Boomers through 1964.)

It Is Not Only Medicare
The problem of cost is a growing problem not only in Medicare, but everywhere else. It is really a simple problem. There is no effective way to control prices when the user of the service is not the one paying for the service. Because when someone else pays for what you want or need, you no longer have to make the rationing decision, but that third party sure as heck will make that rationing decision for you. And when someone else pays for what you think you want or need, you don't really care how much it cost to get what you want or need, and therein lies the basic problem. The user of the service does not care how much it cost, and therefore, costs MUST rise. As cost rises, the person paying the bill has to figure out how to pay for that increase, or resort to some form of forced rationing. But forced rationing like price controls do not work, over a long period of time.

All Government Programs
are Ponzi Schemes. Every one takes money from one citizen to buy off another citizen in a preferred group.
To Phylis: Sorry but like all those who invested with Madof, you LOST your investment. The bigger offense, however, is that the criminals in Congress dating back to the 1930s when all these schemes started are going scott-free with life-time pensions and health care paid for by tax-payers.

Interesting comments
Some of the commenters here, particlarly those already on SS, who complain they "paid into it their entire lives" just don't get it.

My kids' generation will be paying into their entire lives, too - but not for themselves, rather to fund old folks who have already overspent whatever they put into it. ANd when they retire? It will be bankrupt.

You voted for it, you supported it, you take the consequences of your actions: Pay more or get less. Tough luck.

Besides, most older folks supporting SS voted Demo most of their lives. Well guess who was running Congress when that august body of idiots decided to open SS to the general fund and use receipts into SS to fund whatever other socialist nonsense they wanted? Right - Democrats.

For any of you thinking that the Democrats are not all about power, all about stealing everything they can but dumbing down America so Americans don't realize what's been taken from them and what's going to be taken from their kids, wake up!

And for anyone commenting that Demcorats are concerned with the future, too, get your head out! Look at Blue State demographics - DEMOCRATS DON'T HAVE KIDS! They couldn't care LESS about who pays for this crap - they won't have to and that's all they care about.

Why any sane nation would entrust its vote and its lawmakers and executives to a party that doesn't even believe in the future enough to have children is something historians will have to consider when researching The Fall of Western Civilization.

But the only way to change where we are (in a ditch) and where we're going (off a cliff) is to kick out all of them, outlaw teacher unions, actually educate future voters, and deny childess people any vote at all. Voting is about the future; if you haven't a stake in that future, I don't care about your opinion.

Here we go again!
If I understand Stossel correctly, he complains that the "rich" shouldn't get Medicare because they don't "need" it. Could it be that Obama's socialist pronouncements are having an impact on conservative writers like Stossel? We pay into Medicare what we are required to pay. Don't gripe or blame us if it isn't enough. Medicare was intended to help people over 65 meet their medical expenses, but as another writer correctly pointed out it has been misused. However, again, the argument is over the wrong issues. Medical treatment is expensive and instead of attacking the source of this expense, we spend all our time worrying about how to pay for medical services. Here are four factors that contribute to high health care.
American Medical Association: Why do we allow the AMA to control the number of positions in medical school? Every year thousands of highly qualified students are turned away from medical school while the ones who make it through school will complete their internship exhausted from over work and mired in mind numbing debt.
Health insurers: Why do they continue to reward individuals who continue to practice a high risk life style? It is time to allow health insurance companies to introduce risk factors into the premium calculation process. Auto, fire and life insurance have practiced risk management for years. If your premiums are high, you know why, don’t you? What would be the harm of requiring individuals who practice high risk behaviors to pay their own way?
Pharmaceutical Companies: Why can I buy prescription drugs in Mexico cheaper than in the US? Many of the drugs that are dispensed in the US are manufactured in Mexico and sold here at an almost criminal markup.
Trial Lawyers: Did you ever wonder how much a 6 million dollar settlement costs you in increased premiums? At 33% (modest estimate) the law firm nets out nearly 2 million.

well said, Think
re:
Some of the commenters here, particlarly those already on SS, who complain they "paid into it their entire lives" just don't get it.

My kids' generation will be paying into their entire lives, too - but not for themselves, rather to fund old folks who have already overspent whatever they put into it. ANd when they retire? It will be bankrupt.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

the truth about S.S. and Medicare is that recipients are mostly NOT spending $ they paid in... and it is an OUTRAGE that they are not means tested.

I saw my rich uncle's 2nd wife get get Medicare to pay for some of his elder care, though as a retired doctor he got free treatment and had MILLIONS in investments.

Today's retirees are the wealthiest in history-- the first generation EVER to routinely leave inheritances. Stossel correctly questions how long we can keep doing things like Rx Care for Seniors-- which 905 of them had no real need for, and is fast becoming another giant sucking sound from guvment.

The Left never met a problem that it did not want guvment to pretend to solve... for it is from guvment control and wealth redistribution that the left gets its hegemony.

Mexifornia's fiscal calamity is a harbinger of the fiscal irresponsibility we can expect everywhere as guvment keeps sucking more of the marrow from our already frail bones. The feds can print $, but there is no free lunch-- and that includes bennies for the elderly.

One reason I'll never join AARP
is that they were screwing the baby boom generation by pressing for more and more benefits for "seniors" regardless of the long term effect on the economy or the unsustainable deficits the programs would eventually have.

Now, as I approach "Medicare age" I'm faced with the horror of dealing with a government bureaucracy for my health care.

The tax spending giveaway politicians just love Ponzi schemes hiding behind the title "insurance." Any politician who supported these programs ought to spend the rest of their days in jail -- and get medicare health coverage instead of the fat, tax payer paid, deluxe health care system "retired" congressmembers get.

gangs vs. government
If a group of people get together and talk about going out and robbing some people for their benefit and act on it we have theft. Get a large enough group of people to decide to take other peoples money by force and we have our current government.
The main purpose of government(there will also be minor things such as roads or such to benefit all) is to protect life, liberty and property and to have a legal system that people can engage in when these rights are violated. When government violates this understanding and begins confiscating property/money for the purpose of benefitting others, it is no longer government, no matter how many want it.
This becomes a form of slavery, whereby an individual is forced to give of the fruits of his labor to provide for another. While I am accountable to God to do good, and if I have truly seen Him for who He is and thus desire to emulate and manifest His love then that is part of my relationship with Him. Government however may never force one to good. This is the problem in pushing laws designed to do good, one is no longer simply restrained from doing harm, but is now coerced into doing good. This is where man loses freedom as he is no longer free to choose his conduct, but is put into service for others. Man now owns man. Note that again, MAN NOW OWNS MAN.
Just as the Bill of Rights are considered negative rights,i.e. those things which may not be taken away so too are to be the laws of government. Life, liberty and property may not be taken except through due process. This was the understanding in which our forefathers crafted the Constitution, the idea of crafting laws designed to do otherwise would have been anethema to them. It is truly a battle of those who love liberty vs. those who love tyranny.

Social Security and Medicare

Just another Modern Day problem caused by Liberals.

I am really
tired of these expensive social engineering government programs, brought to us by those that insist on evolution, and yet refuse to let evolution take place.

You greed meisters that insist you paid into it, not only did not pay nearly as much as you get, you are flat out stealing from your progeny. furthermore, the very least you could do is pay a little more at the doctor's office etc. so that maybe future generations stand a fighting chance. Instead you just steal then tell everyone 'you earned it'. You didn't earn it, you stole it.

The worst of it is, if everyone took that same money and put it in the safest investments on the planet, they would have way more money than any of the government ponzi schemes. So you are being lied to, and you are also lying to yourself as well.

Upbeats vs Dead Beats
We are now becoming forced to live in a world where those who achieve are forced to care for those who cannot or will chew gum and walk. Charity is not from the heart but mandated by a government agency and the word moral is a curse to those who wish to under achieve and spend their lives in search of the unlocked door where the path will always be easy.

If the government would stick to regulation for standard and get itself out of the medical business, the market would seek the level at which it could operate. Medical could be provided more capably if the mooches and leeches were controlled and stop the graft and fraud they cause by corrupting the government help they are provided with. The government has little incentive to stop the graft because it gives them more say so and allows them to intrude instead of enforcing the laws, this is what makes medicare so expensive.

One other thing....
folks, remember these entitlements never took into account two things. A longer life span. A smaller generation being born.


The irony is the boomers aborted themselves into the poor house.

Typical Republican Flip-Off
What rot. Stossel and his ilk worship at the feet of the private health insurers and pharmaceutical companies. Medicare would be fine if the Republicans hadn't inserted that nasty little law that prohibits negotiating the prices on drugs - gotta keep those big profits for Big Pharm. Health insurers are profit-motivated first-and-foremost - they don't give a damn about the individual.. Remember some of those wonderful "managed care" HMO's - POW's got better medical treatment than those poor HMO participants. Health care is a right - and the right wing elitists and doctrinaire libertarians better get used to the idea. A single payor system will work and save billions. Look at the French and German models - and those countries are not going broke taking care of their elderly. If Stossel and his ilk are so anti-over 65, how about he and his cronies volunteering to be the first to be voluntarily put down so they won't burden the rest of use? Pigs would fly first.

The real irony
Lolo1 wrote:

"The irony is the boomers aborted themselves into the poor house."


The REAL irony is that the Far Right doesn't want to let Liberals CONTINUE aborting themselves out of the gene pool - and the voting booth. Every liberal abortion means at least one less liberal vote. This is a BAD THING?

Go read this (http://inthisdimension.com/2008/10/30/the-conservative-case-for-abortion/) and this (http://inthisdimension.com/2008/05/28/democrats-and-the-gop-on-abortion-the-opposite-of-their-demands/) for the numbers... then decide if our future is more or less important than arguing about abortion.

Look at who???
Look at Germany and France? Give me a break. If you want to pronounce liberal thought, I don't mind, but find me a better model for health care. Which part of the Constitution gives you a "right to health care" anyway?

the dangled carrot of health care
Medicare is a scam... the most corrupt and badly managed social program. So some want MORE guvment in health care?!


Canadians now spend almost 60% of ALL income tax revenues on their national health care, yet it is seriously rationed and unpopular. When it really matters, they come down here and pay for it-- if they can. But it is the model some in Congress now cite!

Which begs a key question-- where we WE go after our health care is rationed?!

The ObaMessiah/Chosen One is already speaking of the need to ration health care, especially for older citizens.

And don't ya' think ILLEGALS will find automatic health care that they STILL won't pay for even MORE attractive?!

National Health Care has NOT succeeded elsewhere, and some of the smaller countries are mostly white and homogeneous, whereas we have HUGE health problems among our 25% minorities.

Guvment provided health care is fools' gold-- the dangled carrot before the guvment's meaty hand grabs us by the privates and squeezes to generously support still more bureaucrats and crooked pols.

Hey Wolfgang
You are a funny guy. Maybe satire is your calling.

guvment provided medicine is
... already the most corrupt, expensive, and poorest delivered.

Our health care DOES cost TWICE as much per capita as any other country, BUT guvment/single payer is NOT the answer. Medicare/Caid is already the most corrupt social program and dreadfully inefficient... so the left wants guvment to take it ALL over?!?!

Show me the successful model ANWHERE elsewhere-- New Zealand? England? Canada? NOT! Hell, the Canadians all come here for surgery when it counts.

Our cost structure is too high because the powers that be (including M. Deities) have been killing the Golden Goose with feeding frenzy greed. Litigation costs is surely an issue-- simply watch the myriad ads on national TV urging suits about Mesothelioma, harmful drugs, etc.

Not my fault

For those who say I didn't pay enough into SS, just remember, I am not responsible for the high costs and high taxes that your generation caused.

If not for inflation, my payments would cover my receipts.

healthcare is a right?
Wolfgang nothing that must come from someone else is a right. I will say that again, NOTHING THAT MUST COME FROM SOMEONE ELSE IS A RGIHT.You have no right to force anyone to provide anything. You own no one. Rights are those which belong to man, life, liberty and property.
I challenge you show me by what authority one may demand of another to provide for him. Please try.

AARP is VERY dangerous/insidious
re:
One reason I'll never join AARP
is that they were screwing the baby boom generation by pressing for more and more benefits for "seniors" regardless of the long term effect on the economy or the unsustainable deficits the programs would eventually have.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

AARP is the single most powerful lobbying group per a study by college scholars-- second are the collective Jewish lobbies (AIPAC, AEI. JINSA, JDL, etc.).

AARP has become a DANGEROUS force because it rouses the old people to demand things like Rx care for Seniors-- which 90% of seniors had no need for, but which become HUGE, ever-growing blood-sucking guvment boondoggles.

Libertus...
I guess the same part of the Constitution that allows the President to fire a private-sector company president, give my money to failing companies, steal a private company from its investors and give it to its unions, set CAFE standards without bothering with legislation, and do everything else these bastards in DC now are doing....all of which is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

Curiosity of the century thus far: Why is no one suing the Feds for violating the Constitution? Why are those states smart enough to pass 10th-Amendment legislation still sending tax dollars to DC to pay for stuff prohibited to the Federal Government by that same 10th Amendment?

Maybe the Congress ought to sit down and write a new budget based on the rule of law, the Constitution and personal responsibility? Instead they are spending trillions on failed social engineering. Everything they do in social engineering has always failed. Can liberals just not learn?

The Debt was about $450B in 1972 when Boomer began holding office. We had paid for the Revolutionary War, the Louisiana Purchase, the War of 1812, the Mexican War, The Civil War, Alaska, the expansion of the West, the Spanish-American War, WW1, the Depression, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, landing a man on the moon.

Now the debt is about $10T, and we have paid for (or not, depending on your view) a whole bunch of failed social engineering programs, bankrupted the future, raised a couple of generations of babies with no personal responsibility, self discipline or thought of un-selfish behavior.

And now we are going to triple the debt with this idiot president and Congressional leaders who can't even lie convincingly.

a total misunderstanding
re;
For those who say I didn't pay enough into SS, just remember, I am not responsible for the high costs and high taxes that your generation caused.

If not for inflation, my payments would cover my receipts.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

the great shell game

Once they began spending S.S. extractions on anything other than S.S. recipients, the original commitment of guvment became a fraud-- that shell game began 40 years ago.

Today, S.S. is a major dunning/income tax to pay mainly for profligate big guvment... only a small portion represents true S.S. support payments as originally intended and promised.

The "trust fund" is simply part of the shell game/fraud... for the payers, it is simply a scam I.O.U.-- THERE IS NO TRUST FUND!!!

(please see more to follow)

demythologizing S.S.

re:
"Do you still want part of social security privatized?"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Well yes, actually!

The pro-guvment ilk loves to bray of late about the recent stock market crash-- ironically CAUSED by the guvment demanding that banks make sub-prime mortgages, and aggravated by the quasi-guvment Fannie Mae, which was bankrupted by the crooked Clinton appointee Franklin Raines, who paid himself millons while cooking its books.

Both left AND right in guvment deserve censure for deregulating financial institutions... repeal of Glass-Stegall under Slick Willie Clinton was a mistake... and we should always regulate those loaning other peoples' money. Some further bray that the market dive proves that it would be "too risky" to allow people to retain and invest part of their own S.S. extractions.

Several cogent points--

Current S.S extractions are HUGE (over 14% of every paycheck, counting the employer match-- which also dissuades the hiring of Americans and encourages outsourcing or even hiring ILLEGAL alens) and are simply spent as general tax revenues-- they are lumped together with IRS revenues as "the common fund." NOTHING whatoever is invested or saved by the guvment for future SS payouts!

Ergo, ANYTHING which resulted from privatization savings and investments would be an improvement!

Second, notwithstanding the recent market correction, the markets have returned 9-12%+ over the long-term-- versus NOTHING from S.S., which is simply a transfer payment to current recipients-- or, effectively, welfare!

Third, all federal workers and members of Congress have privatized retirement plans--THEY do not want to have to rely on S.S., which THEY are spending in Iraq, on welfare, on the bridge to nowhere, etc.

Why should Middle America not get the same opportunity that federal workers get to invest THEIR retirement funds?!

Illuminating Light
Needs of the needy and prospective needy;
Supplanted by
Greed of the Greedy of eyes beady.

And just who may be the Greedy?

IV-mainlining,
Truly, a dark, disgusting, decrepit and debilitating disease.

Help us bring IV-mainliners to further light.

dated but interesting analysis

...about the myth of S.S. (written 10 years ago)

http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/1999/0599frank.html

excerpt:
Many people, when discussing the Trust Fund, apparently have in mind a great heap of money stacked high in some underground vault. As more boomers retire, the SSA opens the vault, dusts off the cobwebs and doles out the cash.

But there is NO SUCH PILE OF MONEY. When excess payroll taxes come into the SSA, the cash is turned over to the Treasury which, in turn, issues interest-bearing bonds to the SSA. The Treasury then spends the cash on welfare, roads, weapons, tax cuts.

Today, nearly one-third of federal revenues derive from the payroll tax, perhaps the most regressive of all federal taxes. Of this money, about one-fifth is not needed to pay current Social Security benefits. It is credited to the Trust Fund, but is destined, in fact, for general government spending.

Conservative economists understand all too clearly that the Trust Fund bonds are nothing more than a promise that society will one day be asked to keep.

an even bigger Ponzi than you think


re:
If FDR really wanted a
Social Security program that worked, he would have set up something that was privatized in the first place.

SS is a PONZI scheme, it might have worked longer if the GD dems under LBJ had not put the money into general revenues to fund his lousy "great society". They stole the money and continue to do so today.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

When they set up S.S., it was NOT really intended to be voluntary, nor did it become so. Further, there was a HUGE shell game-- they set up the retirement age of 65 which was the average life expectancy then.

In other words, the guvment on average would simply have a HUGE source for dunning the taxpayers. Today, S.S. is EASILY the most burdensome payroll tax the lower half pays, since they pay no income tax.

The rich on Medicare"
Why are the rich on Medicare? That's just disgraceful. Talk about wasteful spending. If Obama really wanted to save money, he would kick the rich off Medicare.

Medicare
As a healthy 80-year old, I would be only too happy to get out of the Medicare mess - if I could find an insurance company - NOT AARP - who provides catastrophic insurance for the ancient. I pay most of my own health-care costs anyway, since I mostly use homeopathic meds and nutritional supplements and try to stay far away from the medical professionals.

A Few Points
At its roots, the debate is not about providing health care, it's about paying for it. Like any gubmint program, SS/Medicare is established and administered to achieve political goals, not economic ones. To expect fiscal efficiency is absolutely unrealistic.
The next time a lib says we need to invest more money in "x", ask him/her to name a single gubmint "investment" that had a positive ROI.

Think
I agree with your posts. The two people working to pay for one retiree, hmmm, doesn't that kinda sound like another bunch of legal ponzi schemes, I mean, organizations, LABOR UNIONS!

Leah; God bless you young lady for keeping the home fires burning for your Marine. While I was in Viet Nam, I had a very special young lady like you back home that kept me going. That relationship didn't last, but we remained friends, so even today, when I see her in public, I say "thanks!" I am ashamed and appalled that our brave young men and women that represent the message of freedom all over the world, do not get paid better! If I had my way, all of those losers in congress would be giving up their sweetheart healthcare benefits and channel that money into raises.

JM051; you are an idiot. Let me give you a little history lesson, you punk. More US fighting men and women have died under the bumblings of dumbocrud controlled government than under all republican controlled versions, combined! Yup! your party is the party of veterans. So, just quit spewing your liberat robotic rhetoric, robot boy!

War Party?
Bruce: Some facts to support your correct statement about which party sends our military to war - and gets them killed.

Here's a post with the facts and links: http://inthisdimension.com/2008/04/21/which-really-is-the- war-party/

Bottom line?
Fact: (D) Presidents kill American military at the rate of 2,037/mo; (R) at 36/mo, so (D) presidents kill American warriors 56 times faster than (R).

Fact: Less than 1% of American KIA were killed in a war entered into by a Republican president.

Fact: Democrats unquestionably are the war party.

Fact - whether the Left likes it or not.

I believe it was Glenn Beck
who said it was known as "SSI"---the "I" for insurance. In other words, IF you needed these programs they were there. Would you expect that after 10 years with no accidents that your auto insurance company refund 100% of your premiums?
All welfare programs ought to be means tested. (Although ALL are unconstitutional, I don't see them just stopping overnight.)

Instead of the bureaucracy, gubmint could set up charity hospitals and clinics for means tested participants. They could be staffed by those still learning (RNs, PAs, interns, residents saving them tuition costs) but overseen and headed by the best physicians in the country. In lieu of taxes medical supplies could be donated including drugs and diagnostic equipment. Much like present day county or VA hospitals without all the paperwork, regulations, and blah, blah, blah. But, alas, that's too simple for the boobs in DC to get.

Or, if gubmint stopped grabbing all of our money, the churches could go back into doing the right thing which is charity. Today they focus on "mission" to convert new members. They have become corporations of the worst sort.

I'd rather eat dirt than take a SSI check or use medicare.

War Party comments...
Bruce: Some facts to support your correct statement about which party sends our military to war - and gets them killed.

Here's a post with the facts and links: http://inthisdimension.com/2008/04/21/which-really-is-the- war-party/

Bottom line?
Fact: (D) Presidents kill American military at the rate of 2,037/mo; (R) at 36/mo, so (D) presidents kill American warriors 56 times faster than (R).

Fact: Less than 1% of American KIA were killed in a war entered into by a Republican president.

Fact: Democrats unquestionably are the war party.

Fact - whether the Left likes it or not.

HOW TO SAVE YOUR ESTATE AND DIGNITY


.....When your quality of life becomes burdensome do not go to see a doctor ...

.....Break out the good wine, pop your favorite movie in the DVD, take a few pills and go to sleep ...

.....ALTERNATE PLAN: Let your doctor schedule expensive operations and drugs to help you cling to life ...then when you become totally disabled and indigent let the government put you into a nursing home with others who are waiting to die (in Vietnam the medics called this the "dying room") ...then finish out your life in a stupor drooling over yourself in a bed that reeks of urine .....COLOSSUS

HOW TO SAVE YOUR ESTATE AND DIGNITY 2

Give it away before you die.

Get real John
All the more reason to NOT have Universal Health Care. The government forced Medicare on the elderly. Just like social (in)security, instead of putting the money that is collected in an account for Medicare benefits the government decided to throw it in the general fund and probably used it to pay for "pork" programs. The elderly are paying for medicare with premiums and because of the crappy coverage they medicare provides they also pay for supplemental insurance to pick up the cost that Medicare will not.
I suspect that if the government were not involved and handled privately the funds would be solvent.
As far as reports that social security and Medicare will go broke if not fixed, we were all worried about this 25 or more years ago. The real perpetrators of the ponzy scheme is government. But wait, the young will be paying more if Universal (government) health care becomes law!!

baseballdoc - Why don't you do it?
If the money had been invested in the market as opposed to outright spent, we'd all be filthy rich in our later years and able to afford all the viagra needed.

Affording health insurance
A great number of seniors, (me included), were led to believe that Medacre was the way we could handle our health expenses when retired on a lower income. A nuymber of major corporations chamged their retirement palns and, basically, put thousands of retirees on the Medicare plan. This, after leading them tpo believe they could get their health insurance from the retirement plan.I was bounced from my insurance paln and forced ot go on Mediacre. Do any of you heartless young bastards have an answer for that?? I was willing to pay even when the payments got high. Then the retirement plan forced us to use Medicare as primary.

You bet your a-- I know how to fix that, but do you think our Congress wants to bang heads with the CEOs of the top couple of thousand corporations in America??

Well, you selfish, ungrateful whelps, I hope you get yours. (I am reasonably sure Obama will get you there.)I guess none of you care about your parents and elderly relatives.

PS I still pay for a private insurance plan that pays me after I spend $3500 out of my pocket for medical expenses only if they are approved by Medicare.I have paid (a close guess) about $13,200 over the years and never got a dime from them. I call it a bankruoptcy plan because it will pay approved costs and will cover me in the event of a catastrophic, expensive illness.

I also hope you get to learn to live on about $20,000 a year.

PS
Did any of you ever consider how big (or small) an issue this would be if we were not supporting 20 million illegals in our hospitals and schools???

Are you willing to support them and make Soylent Green out of your seniors?? Some of you just made a serious enemy out of this old man./

Bad cess to you , I say!!!!

Help me


baseballdoc Location: TX
Reply # 128
Date: May 20, 2009 - 2:48 PM EST


.....take a few pills and go to sleep ...
=========

What kind of pill, and how many?

My words are not worthy
They never got posted....

Just a thought...
As we all know, those of us who indulge in these blogathons are really just preaching to our choir. Good for spleen venting, so to speak.
The net effect of our commentaries, other than self-enlightenment, is about nil.
But just imagine what we could do if all this energy and good thinking could be concentrated on the culprits. Why, we could really matter.
Maybe those tea parties can be refocused.

We could do what the libs do here
Hell, maybe a few hundred thousand of us could hang out at the daily kos and the huffy post and flood them with the truth.

Patricia...
Trust me, I'm no fan of medicare... but to exclude the rich... Who do you think paid and continue to pay for medicare? It's taxpayers and people with jobs... the very people, who if they are prudent and lucky, become the rich elderly. That is the sad reality of progrssive taxation. It truly ends up being redistribution of wealth. There is nothing fair or moral about government coercively redistributing wealth of private, honest, thrifty individuals.

Think
Thanks for the back up. I was 99% sure that I was right on that, due to previous research.

I am also fairly certain that democruds have vetoed more pay increases for grades below Colonel than republicans, but I couldn't find the data on that part, so I didn't state it.

My service experiences formed my mistrust and probably hatred of the liberats. When I got out, I vowed to vote for Micky Mouse before I voted for another dumbocrud! We could have won that war and been out of there far sooner if LBJ and Humphrey would have had any guts! We can only guess how things would have progressed under JFK, but I suspect that we would have seen different results.

CARLOS & JIM CA

...CARLOS ...I never see doctors and I am in excellent health but if my health failed I would never allow the government and the doctors to rob my children of my estate just to allow me to live as a vegatable for a few more years ...my will is made out and my children have power of attorney if I slip into a coma ...they have my instructions ...

...JIM ...Any good sleeping pill will do ...five or more to go with the wine should be plenty .....

.....POSTSCRIPT ...I faced death many time when I was in Vietnam and I came to terms with the fact that I was not invincible and that my life could end at any time ...I would prefer that it be a time of my own choosing ...after Vietnam, every day of my life has been a bonus .....COLOSSUS

FeedFwd
Right on, bro!

It's amazing to me that liberats berate the rich as the root of all that is wrong with our great country, at every opportunity, but they fail to realize that most of today's wealthy people started with little more than an idea, then used their intelligence, hard work and personal sacrifice to bring that idea to fruition. That has always been the American Way. Everyone has the same opportunity to use their abilities for their betterment. Those that whine about their lot in life are usually the freeloaders that do not do so, then want something for nothing.

My great grandparents emigrated from Germany and Italy respectively. No one gave them any loans and there were no government hand outs, yet they built successful businesses, then taught their children the value of hard work and sound financial principles. These values were subsequently passed on to me. I started my own business and I don't need no stining bailout!

Think again
Normally I agree with 99% of the editorials on Townhall; not this time. Is there abuse of Medicare? Undoubtedly. Do the vast majority of senior Americans need it? Absolutely. A society is judged, in part, by how it treats its most vulnerable citizens - its very young and its very old. Abortion being what it is, we flunk the first part of the test. Are we really going to turn our backs on people who made this country what it is today, are in reduced circumstances and can least afford to pay for medical care? I am already terrified that Obama will, through the guise of universal health care, begin rationing health care to the elderly as the first item on his agenda. After all, they're old and won't live long, anyway. This is exactly how Hitler thought in 1933 - the elderly, infirm and mentally deficient were exterminated almost a decade before the Jews. After all, if you really want to save money, why keep all these people hanging around when they're too old to work, to infirm to support themselves. Please, let's not go down that path. Frankly, I believe it's coming, but I certainly hate to see a conservative web site publish ideas like this.

read it and weep for America
re:
Did any of you ever consider how big (or small) an issue this would be if we were not supporting 20 million illegals in our hospitals and schools???

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

ILLEGAL alien invasion and poverty...
As more poor Hispanics enter the country, poverty goes up. This is not complicated, but it is widely ignored. Hispanics have accounted for all of the net gain in poverty.

The standard story is that poverty is entrenched; only superficially do the statistics support that.

Here is proof from serious analysts... it is STAGGERING how truly expensive and enervating/detrimental ILLEGAL aliens are all-in... amnesty of 12 million would lead to costs of $2.6 TRILLION to taxpayers-- we sure need that now! And we would have 100 million new, mostly poor, largely ignorant here within 20 years.

The average poor, largely ignorant ILLEGAL alien family will use $1.4 MILLION more in services than it ever pays in any form of taxes over a lifetime. This is partly because we are now an advanced service economy, so upward mobility for them will be nil.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/SR14es.cfm

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1490.cfm

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm

importing poverty and social pathologies

Congress is quietly holding hearings to establish a path to scamnesty even though it has been rejected several times over the past couple of years despite HUGE lobbying by the Conspiracy Of Evil (see post to follow).

Find your Senators and Congressmen (and others)... BOOKMARK IT! :

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm

Tell them that you oppose any semblance of amnesty...that you support the SAVE Act... that there should be NO connection between working here ILLEGALLY and a path to citizenship...that it is CRIMINAL to speak of a path to citizenship even as 10% of Americans are unemployed...

And this is the WRONG type of immigrants (poor and ignorant... future social service dependents) for today's advanced service economy in America. We need SOME of the educated and skilled, BUT they should come here LEGALLY, and want to become Americans, not just milk the system for jobs and bennies!

The Conspiracy of Evil

The biggest challenge to stopping ILLEGAL aliens is that the money and organization (hence power) is mainly on the pro-ILLEGAL side. The pro-ILLEGAL forces include an unlikely, strange bedfellow alliance between groups which want to USE them in different ways--> the Conspiracy Of Evil.

Miscreant employers obviously simply want to exploit their labor-- never mind the myriad, egregious socio-economic problems they foist on America... hence, their all-in costs to society are immense and snowballing. Furthermore, the "savings" to miscreant employers are pocketed by them --> your hotel room or head of lettuce is NO cheaper to YOU.

The PC left wants to get ILLEGALS voting and seize permanent control for leftist "elites" via yet more inexorable big entitlement government... power flows to statist 'Crats/the left when YOUR tax $ flows to Washington. Try to find a liberal who does not really favor scamnesty, while feigning talk about enforcement first.

The scandal-plagued Catholic Church needs replacement bodies for the pews; and ILLEGALS can put more in the collection plates in America than in Mexico... the Church still has mega-millions to pay out for priest perversion (after deciding to forgive each priest one act of perversion-- Jesus!):

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jul/15/local/me-priests15

Ethnocentric Hispanic groups really do want an effective Reconquista, so they hide behind claims of racism and pleas for PC multiculturalism and one world, NWO kumbaya.

http://www.illegalaliens.us/aztlan.htm
http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/mexico_immigration/2007/09 /28/36496.html?s=al&promo_code=3A98-1
http://www.libertygunrights.com/NAUFactSheet.pdf

Finally, the remote elites, including the liberal MSM, do not see what all the fuss is about. Besides, they LIKE their cheap ILLEGAL maids and yard-workers, and THEIR children will not have to go to schools enervated by "those people."

Ignorance
The Government misappropriates 100% of the money paid into Medicare, by every worker in the country.

Calling Medicare free health care is ignorance. Every member of Medicare pays close to 100.00 per month for part B. Medicare pays 80% and the member pays the rest. If they have drug insurance, part D, they pay 35.00-90.00 per month. It's a long ways from free.

a germane current post here
...about problems with national health care conceptually-- (slight edit)

Murphdog Location: HI

Date: May 18, 2009 - 4:12 PM EST

I don't believe Congressional Democrats
will do the right thing.

The Swiss, for example, don't have a border-crashing wave of illegal immigrants crushing their health-care system. They don't have (illegal) "immigrant rights" groups squeezing their politicians with race-laden threats to give the milk away for free while the Swiss populace pays for it. Their emergency rooms aren't crowded with foreigners who pay $1 in taxes for every $3 in welfare they receive.

There are so many inter-connected problems that must be solved first, and lax immigration enforcement is THE biggest influence; second tort law; third is the demonization of insurance companies.

Only two things can happen in Universal single-payer system - you either get less for the same cost, or you pay more for the same service. And with an additional 100 million people, the system crashes.

[Editor's note-- amnestia for 12 million will indeed mean 100 million net new, mostly poor and ignorant over 20 years-- JUST what the Crats want!]

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm

mistermillo
What you fail to understand is that medical coverage is expensive BECAUSE of Medicare and Medicaid. Just track the annual cost of medicine. After Medicare and Medicaid passed, the cost of medicine took an upward swing. It swung up further with the HMO Act of 1974 which gave companies the tax incentives to provide health insurance but refused to allow individuals to provide them. Then it got more expensive after Bush passed Medicare Part D.

Without those programs, medical care wouldn't be burdened by cumbersome regulations, we wouldn't have to deal with the third party payer problem (someone else spending your money is always more expensive than you spending it yourself), and we wouldn't have to deal with having to cover the shortfall between what government pays and what something actually costs.

Just look up the Code of Federal Regulations and check out the health care chapter (chapter 48 I believe). It's a monster. That alone explains a huge portion of the costs of medicine today.

the ObaMessiah has already noted...
re:
I am already terrified that Obama will, through the guise of universal health care, begin rationing health care to the elderly as the first item on his agenda. After all, they're old and won't live long, anyway.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

...that rationing health care for the older Americans will be essential. ANY system of nationalized health care will lead to rationing-- you can take it to the bank!

Canada spends 60% of income taxes on health care-- and STILL rations it.

Is anyone here paying attn to Iran today
I just went on Yahoo to see what currently is going on. Seems Iran tested a missile today that can reach US military bases in the Middle East, Isreal, and Europe. This is after Pres Obama's olive branch approach to their president...the one who wants Isreal blasted off the map.

Anyone have more info? Or an inside track? My husband gets deployed sometime soon so...I really don't like this.

We're expecting #4. It's a boy!

Nevermind
I'm going to the newsrooms.

Envy
Patricia, envy is an ugly emotion. Made some bad choices in life have you?

Yes, John, yes.
I've got to put my "72 IS THE NEW 65" mantra on a t-shirt line.

As I type, I'm looking at qhoratius's post, and I must take exception to it. As Stossel pointed out, it's his generation, (which I just missed via 10-03-1945) the baby boomers/worst generation, (the older of whom came of age in LBJ's Great Society era, which might be clue) who are poised to break the bank.

For my money, Mr. Obama is our first president who represents the values of that generation. Bill Clinton and George W. Bush were the right age, but neither of them were into the "counter culture."

For me, it's all about expectations. Hip replacements and quadruple by-pass surgery, for two, ought to be very, very expensive.

This geezer can afford neither, but would prefer to keep more of his income, (and you, yours) as opposed to all of us sending more dough to Washington based on the premise that "everybody ought to have health insurance."

Selective presentation of Medicare
What is Medicare paying for?

As pointed out by commenters there's a lot more than meets the eye in this article. I would like to see Ann Coulter's take on it.

I paid my dues. I'm entitled.

Gee, I could have worked off the books for 23 years and let the system take care of me.

Fraud
If you think that Medicare and Medicaid are full of fraud just wait until we have universal health, this will be a con man's dream.

medicare
While medicare's finances deteriorate rapidly
because of a weakened economy; the alternative
to medicare was not set forward in John Stossel's program 20/20. What insurance company would
insure a lot of 80 year olds whose health issues
are too mumerous to elaborate on, unless you're
one of the fortunate ones? Pay the bills without insurance; surely you must be kidding.
Hopefully John your parents are alive and well.
ASk them if they believe it is in the national
interest to scrap Medicare? thank you, Sidney Soffer

grubby
lol- well that's funny, I'm certainly no lib, and if you thought that scenario was rosy you weren't thinking at all.
" I'm particularly attracted to to your 75 year projection - boy, you libs are sure seers of seers. Everyone of you seem to have some way of seeing the future to suit your purposes - it's either totally disasterous or rosy depending on what line of BS your selling."
BLAH BLAH BLAH.
The point is, the government always inflates and always collects more decade to decade.
Take a look at their take in 1939 - 6.3 billion.
Heck look at 1931 tothe present:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2005/sheets/hist01z1 .xls
.
I do believe if a proper argument is going to be made, it should be made properly.
The massively expanding costs of what are more and more normal procedures are what is going to hurt as much or more as baby boomers retiring and the endless slaughter of our pre-borns. (50 million gone so far).
So, get as mad as you like, but take a look at what has happened.
Government take 1980 -517 billion, government take 1990 - 1,031 billion.
2000 - 2,025 billion.
I'm just going forward with the insane inflation and trends.
I'll admit I really doubt it will keep doubling decade after decade, but so far...
Never said that's a reason to keep or expand medicare or medicaid, and never said anything about the government making healthcare more or less expensive other than the obvious fact that medical procedures and quality of procedures is what is skyrocketing.
I certainly don't want the government taking over healthcare - I don't even want any consolidation at all - just consolidation wrecks it - like it did here.
(now there's a big boss NETWORK here...it wrecked everything - every patient is now a commodity and unwanted.)
Sorry for the mix up , but whining about 34 trillion is a big mistake, especially not pointing out that's over 75 years, WHICH IS DECEPTIVE - that's Mr. Stossel pulling his lies. tsk tsk!

Medved
"Isn't it high time America did less for the elderly? A politically incorrect question for sure. But Medicare has an astounding $34-trillion unfunded liability. And because of rising unemployment, its hospital-stay program will go broke two years earlier than previously predicted. "

*****
Brilliant opening. Let's do away with the
unfunded liability. I realize that this year
is not the year to tackle that. But it has
to be tackled. End of discussion.

My suggestion. Get rid of State taxes.
Increase federal taxes. However the universal
health care is going to be handled and paid
for, figure it out and charge for it. NOW.

Throughout the US, people should be experiencing similar taxations. It is ridiculous that, for instance, Texas pays no
state tax while Illinois pays 6%+ while many
cities have up to another 1 1/2% tacked on.
Internet sales should be taxes at an even rate for everyone. Other countries manage to
do it. We can too. I'm sick of this
regionalism, I'm sick of the South dragging
the rest of us down with their lack of standards and their backwoods mentality.

Wolfgang
You fail to realize that health insurance companies are HEAVILY invested in pharmeceutical stocks.(10-20%, just like most mutual funds and 401k's)
When you keep dissing the pharms, you keep telling the USA to destroy it's bloated pig wall street machine that actually keeps Insurance Companies solvent, paying out for helthcare, and paying millions of employees - they do that by taking those premium dollars, and tossing them in the stock market.
They double em up every decade - now they have twice as much as what people paid in -
That's how they pay employees, the spiderweb worker network, and the $35,000 medical bill while whine and moan about your $7,500 yearly deductible.
If you wind up usaing healthcare insurance, especially if it is a broken limb or an operation, take a look at the bills total - it's probably more than you paid in the whole time.
Cancer treatments are several hundred thousand a year.
A gallbladder operation, 30,000.
If you pay 500 a month for 6 years, you've just covered one common operation.
How much is heart surgery ? Well, the multi million dollar machines that see inside arteries aren't cheap -
Did the baby clinic have a "tummy picture machine" in 1965 ? NO If they don't have one now - they suck, right ? YES
---
It's great to hate insurance companies and pharmeceuticals, but when you get rid of them watch the stock market really collapse. I bet it's 20% of the whole stock market.
-
Good luck there fool.
America has a gigantic economy because it has stupid things like insurance and pharm companies...
Third world and tiny economies don't.

Tammy the fascist
" My suggestion. Get rid of State taxes.
Increase federal taxes. "
There you have it- the centralized mindset of the communist.

Dag
"Good luck there fool. "

*****
Can you find no way to write to someone without
sounding like a 5th grader on an unsupervised
playground. Your post is not exactly brilliant
either. - by a long shot.

YOU WANT THE TRUTH?
I'm a physician.Read the chapter on health care in CAPITALISM AND FREEDOM by MILTON FRIEDMAN.This was all made possible by doctors who wanted to get the federal government to assist them in regulating away their competition.The solution lies in severing the ties between organized medicine and the federal govt.In other words, we need legislation that eliminates all federal ties to health care as it pertains to exchanges of money between parties.Federal research facilities could remain.The states would be left free under a federalist regime to deal with things as they see fit.The ensuing competition will make the cost of health care plummet. It would be affordable again. And rational, because the market would be real and undistorted by all of the interference.

How it's funded...
The real question is how social programs get funded. Assuming there was a way to fund universal health insurance without taxing anyone, would you be for it?

Because the method is really quite simple:
repeal the Federal Reserve Act, restore the money-power back to Congress (vs. a quasi-
governmental organization; hell just call it what it is, a private corp owned by European banker families.) Now that we can (hypothetically) print real US dollars again (not fraud reserve notes), just print enough
(interest-free) to pay for every government program "we the people" can agree on. That's the way it was supposed to work anyway, before the banks inserted themselves into the distribution channel vacuum, because the Constitution never articulated how money should reach the peoples' hands.

The only reason you're taxed, is because the government is broke and needs to be an indian-giver. The government is broke because it GIVES ALL the currency it prints to Federal Reserve banksters for cost of paper and ink! ...plus 3% interest, compounding annually! Can you think of a dumber deal Congress could cut with a private entity? That's what they charge US for "managing" our economy!!! And when they muff it, pay them more trillions!
Stossel: if you read any part of this blog, read this! It's also why they can't afford to fix the federal Hwy system. NO, selling it off to private corps who'll toll us to drive
our own roads, or track us by GPS to tax us by the mile, is NOT the answer!

Any Suggestions Liberals?

Democrats in Michigan have driven our unemployment to 12.6% (seasonally adjusted- otherwise it is over 15%). And it is expected to top out at 20% or better by next year.

Taxes have been hiked repeatedly by our government - and they want much much more.

Each time taxes have been raised, jobs leave.

So, what to do now? Everything Liberal has failed.