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Sunday, February 17, 2008
Phil Harris :: Townhall.com Columnist
Delusional Democrats: The Warm Fuzzies of Infanticide
by Phil Harris
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What would you rather watch?

To vomit, or not to vomit: That is the question: Whether ‘tis nobler in the mind to dispose of one’s supper, or to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous equivocation, and take arms against a sea of fellows and colleagues, and by writing in opposition, reveal thoughts conceived in fraudulence.

Perhaps that sounds like so much gobbledygook to you, and no doubt, Shakespeare is flopping about in his coffin like a grounded catfish. Therefore, you may have some sense of my pent-up irritation, having endured as a witness to the systematic programming of my fellow citizens.

Conscientious, moral people have been played like a gypsy’s violin. You have been trained by repetitious exercise, like so many carpet-wetting puppies that now, without hesitation, spew the script that was written for you by power-lusting, left-wing democrats. I have watched this unfold from the beginning, unwilling to acknowledge a likelihood that these political whores could actually seduce the common-sense out of people I love and respect.

Yet here we are, in the midst of caucus mania. I now wear my naiveté like a loin cloth, embarrassed by my blind faith and horrified to contemplate the consequences this nation may endure. God help me, for my will to crawl under a rock and hide grows stronger each day.

Yes, common sense and reasoned thinking has been replaced by a simple mantra, practiced on the internet by multitudes of liberal, if not outright anarchistic malcontents; each given to an orgasmic desire to use the “F” word often and with malice.

Whether you say it precisely this way or not, the following is what you have purchased, in essence, as the wisdom of enlightened thinking: “F…” Bush, the “moron who lied” and now the “soldiers have died”, and “he did it for the oil to make his rich oil buddies even richer” and “he did it because Saddam tried to kill his father.”

So, despite the unified resolve we all felt and thought on that infamous September day, just seven years ago, the truth of the matter reveals that a large number of America’s people haven’t the intestinal fortitude to stand for anything. The fatigue of having our sons, daughters, nephews, nieces, mothers, fathers, co-workers, friends, and neighbors engaged in a very real war has a great many hollering uncle.

May I say that such a turn of thinking is just plain ignorant? Does that make you angry, that I might challenge your lack of stamina and scold you for it?

What follows is the truth, and if you have any sense left, you will consider what I have to say with your hackles down and your nostrils keenly sensitized to the odor that surrounds the lying, envious, power-lusting democrats who have had their way with you. Yes, you should indeed feel as if you have been drugged and sodomized, because that is not far off the mark from what they have done to this nation.

Truth #1: There has never been a war that “feels right.” War is hell, and the day we find ourselves in a war that we “want” to be in, is a day I never want to see.

Truth #2: There has never been a war that has not required sons, daughters, nephews, nieces, mothers, fathers, co-workers, friends, and neighbors to be in danger of dying or being horribly wounded. The fact that we all know someone who has been to Iraq once or twice or three times is not a reason to say that we should not be there, or that we should never have gone in the first place.

Truth #3: President Bush did not invent war. America has engaged in twelve conflicts since 1775 that could be recognized by the average citizen as a “war.” In that time, America has lost 656,041 military personnel in battle. Another 15,267 have died in-theater, but due to circumstances other than battle. Some 525,930 died while serving, but not in-theater. There have been 1,498,930 military personnel that have suffered non-mortal wounds. As painful and heartbreaking as it is, the Iraq/Afghanistan actions have been undertaken with an astoundingly low number of casualties, both dead and wounded.

Truth #4: Our actions in Iraq have caused a severe disruption to Osama bin-Laden’s al-Qaeda terror network, and their ability to organize and carry out more attacks on the United States and Israel. The war on terror cannot be fought and/or won in Afghanistan. Killing Osama bin-Laden would be gratifying, but would have little effect on ending the threat of continued terrorism aimed at Americans.

Are you enamored by the thought of a President Obama, or a President Hillary Clinton? Have you considered that both are committed to unencumbered abortion on demand? Have you been listening to the conversations, regarding the realities of abortion?

The Supreme Court upheld some state decisions to curtail the practice of partial birth abortion procedures. You know, of course, that in this procedure a baby is completely delivered (feet first) except for his or her head. Then the doctor places the point of his scissors at the base of the baby’s skull, and stabs a hole into the child’s skull. Finally, the suction tube is used to remove the baby’s brain, causing the head to “deflate.”

Barack had this to say (found on Obama’s campaign website) following the Supreme Court’s decision: “I strongly disagree with today’s Supreme Court ruling, which dramatically departs from previous precedents safeguarding the health of pregnant women. As Justice Ginsburg emphasized in her dissenting opinion, this ruling signals an alarming willingness on the part of the conservative majority to disregard its prior rulings respecting a woman’s medical concerns and the very personal decisions between a doctor and patient. I am extremely concerned that this ruling will embolden state legislatures to enact further measures to restrict a woman's right to choose, and that the conservative Supreme Court justices will look for other opportunities to erode Roe v. Wade, which is established federal law and a matter of equal rights for women.”

Did you know that Hillary Clinton believes that Barack Obama is not “pro-abortion” enough, and that if Barack Obama is elected, abortion will be at risk in America? Does this settle okay with you, in your gut, as you visualize a perfectly formed baby, lying in ragged pieces on a stainless steel tray? You understand, don’t you, that this happens at the Planned Parenthood clinic down the street from your home, several times a day. Indeed, many early abortions result in bloody blobs of tissue in a jar, but until the moment they were vacuumed out of their mother’s womb, they were boys and girls.

As you curse the “F……” President Bush for making soldiers die in Iraq, and as you caucus in glee for Obama or Clinton because they will “end the suffering”, please note the following important numbers: Since the Revolutionary War through September of 2006, (about 230 years) a total of 2,693,128 American military men and women have been killed or have been non-mortally wounded. Since the Roe v. Wade decision in 1973, (about 33 years) there have been more than 48,000,000 children killed by legal abortion procedures in the United States.

Let me spell that out for you, just to make sure the warm fuzzies you have for Obama and Clinton get a firm grip on your guts. That was Forty-eight Million children that have been killed in the last 33 years. Many of them were fully formed and felt the agony of dismemberment (claims of no pain are not factual, and in fact, pain may actually be heightened due to the immature nervous systems).

Those terminated by partial birth procedures, medically known as: intact dilation and extraction (also referred to as IDX and intrauterine cranial decompression) and dilation and evacuation (D&E), had the sensation on their little feet of a Doctor’s tender touch, just prior to the jolt of having a surgical instrument jammed into the back of their little heads.

Think it through again… won’t you please?

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About The Author

Phil Harris is a software engineer, author of Cry for the Shadows and blogs at Citizen Phil.

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THE LIBERALS HAVE NO PROBLEM
killing their own children.
That's why they want more control of the school curriculim so they can indoctrinate the remaining children into their own perverse values.
I can't wait for the whining, poopy libs to show up to decry this article.

It's amazing
how the libs have convinced themselves that the opposite of "pro-life" is "pro-choice".

Wrong.

The opposite of life is death. Period.

In war, one must kill in order to preserve the larger order. Grateful thanks to all who have served or are currently serving.

There is no excuse for abortion; who actually needs to defend him/herself from a helpless infant?

Please do not tell me that being chemically burned to death or torn to pieces before birth is better than possibly being treated badly afterwards.

Standtall-I don't think the libs have a clue that their values will eventually result in nobody being left. Then what?




ALIVE IN HIM
Then we'll have the liberal utopia where everyone can have a windmill and till the soil for their daily sustanance.
All the trees will be safe. All the whales will be safe. The ozone layer will be secure.
No more pain in the a@# humans to screw everything up.
Great liberal tee shirt:
'48 million dead and all I got was this tee shirt.'

Mr. Harris
Your articles are refreshingly honest, blunt, and put things in perspective marvelously. They are a delight for conservatives, and evoke the utmost vitriol from liberals. And yet, when there exist calls for "unity," it is stressing precisely these fundamental differences in moral conviction that reveal what is at stake in every election: that unity is a shallow value to prize if it comes at the expense of human rights and basic moral principle. Again, I thank you for the contrast you are able to so starkly provide.

PRO LIFE???? LMAO
Come talk to me when you care for the weak, sick and young until then your obcessing about potential people is just a sick joke

"Top psychiatrist concludes liberals are

clinically nuts!
Makes case ideology is mental disorder."

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56494

Which, OF COURSE, explains this:

"Barak Obama. Senator Obama actually voted no on a bill that would require health care professionals to provide medical attention to babies born during a botched abortion. In other words, if a child miraculously survives an abortion, doctors (according to Senator Obama) should simply watch as the child dies. How can we trust a man like this to protect any right that isn’t politically expedient? And how will he vote on other moral issues with a clear right and wrong?"

http://www.deoomnisgloria.com/archives/2008/01/2008_preside ntial_candidates_o.html


And this is the man who wants to be our president?



Anne
I told you talk to me when you are really pro life not just pro fetus. You folks could care less what happens once born. You deadbeat hypocrits are so sad. What next rage against terrorists excuting who they call criminals but wanting to execute those we tortured? Yup Anne next you will try and claim to be a Christian LMAO

HalD
OK I'll bite.

It was the Christians who ended slavery in the Western world. It was a Christian worldview that gave you the legal right to your unbelief without fear of persecution. It is the God of the Bible Who deems your life so valuable that were someone to murder you the only proper justice would be to take the murderer's life. It is that same God Who insists that you shall not take that which belongs to another, nor shall he steal from you your property; the inherent right to own your stuff, including your life whether or not you are cognizant. Yet I know of nobody who is looking to institute a theocracy, and if it were tried I'd be right out there in front doing all I could to prevent it.

It was and is the Christian Church who cares for the poor.
Or at least it used to until the Socialists decided they knew better how to "help" the poor, the widowed and the weak by taking away the right to choose from the taxpayer. That same government, by the way, also supports the legal killing of weak and all too REAL unborn children.

What did YOU put in the offering plate at church today to help toward its mission of mercy? Or did you just make change?

Hal Donahue
"Come talk to me when you care for the weak, sick and young"

I currently have a daughter with cerebral palsy and two foster children. Does that "qualify" me to obsess, or should I have voted for the government to take care of them using other people's tax money instead of getting a job so I could afford health insurance and their other needs? Your way sure sounds a lot easier.

Walk in my shoes for a week. See the most undeserving of parents receive free counseling, health care, financial assistance, transportation, legal advice, and more to try to reunite them with their kids, then come talk to me and tell me the government doesn't do enough. For crying out loud.

Well Hal
If you don't want to talk to us pro-lifers, go back into the basement from whence you came!

AliveInHim
"It was the Christians who ended slavery in the Western world."

And it was the Christians that justified it and segragation. Heck Pat Robertson even supported Aparthid and Falwell was pro sergration. This isn't about religion it is about basicly ignoring the living for political reasons. Here is how I really feel:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hal-donahue/values-voters-mak ing-pha_b_69718.html


"It was a Christian worldview that gave you the legal right to your unbelief without fear of persecution. "

And it is the Christian religion that would have burned me at the stake following torture

"It is the God of the Bible Who deems your life so valuable that were someone to murder you the only proper justice would be to take the murderer's life."

So capital punishment is OK with your Christian god? What happened to you without sin....

"..Yet I know of nobody who is looking to institute a theocracy, and if it were tried I'd be right out there in front doing all I could to prevent it. "

That I do not believe for one second.

"It was and is the Christian Church who cares for the poor.
Or at least it used to until the Socialists decided they knew better how to "help" the poor, the widowed and the weak by taking away the right to choose from the taxpayer. That same government, by the way, also supports the legal killing of weak and all too REAL unborn children."

read the above real slowly and tell me again what you are trying to say

"What did YOU put in the offering plate at church today to help toward its mission of mercy? Or did you just make change? "

I gave up on organised religion long ago

Anne
Right on! Of course we have all known that Liberals are truly insane. So many show up on these columns displaying their sickness for all to see. Like Donahue, talking as if what he says means something. Wow! the arrogance of a sick mind. He doesn't even know that no one wants to talk to a blithering nut-case. Trying to talk with these Liberals is worse than dealing with a falling down drunk!

Karl B.
"I currently have a daughter with cerebral palsy and two foster children. Does that "qualify" me to obsess, or should I have voted for the government to take care of them using other people's tax money instead of getting a job so I could afford health insurance and their other needs? Your way sure sounds a lot easier."

It is called social justice and caring for each other

"Walk in my shoes for a week. See the most undeserving of parents receive free counseling, health care, financial assistance, transportation, legal advice, and more to try to reunite them with their kids, then come talk to me and tell me the government doesn't do enough. For crying out loud. "

Ahhhh what qualifies them for undeserving? You are the judge? Halliburton and KBR are far more underserving. You sound bitter and I can understand why.

TRY CARING FOR SOMEONE WITH DEMENTIA
for almost five years like I did with my mother. Me and my sister had to hustle all over the place with Medicare to get her the care she was entitled to under the Medicare/Medicaid act.
In the last year of her life when she needed round the clock care,home health care and the like, the governments pickings were real slim
Like Karl B.says, see the most undeserving people get all the help they are not entitled to.
But I might as well be talking to the couch in my livingroom.
After all, the liberals want euthanasia,too.

STANDTALL
"...the governments pickings were real slim
Like Karl B.says, see the most undeserving people get all the help they are not entitled to.
But I might as well be talking to the couch in my livingroom."

Do you have any idea how it would have been in a civilised country like the UK or France? Perhaps you should

Hal D
So you "gave up" on "organized religion" some time ago. Aren't you smart. Did it ever occur to you that you get out of any organization exactly what you put in? Or haven't you grown up enough to realize that people do fail and disappoint us on an almost daily basis? How have YOU PERSONALLY sacrificed anything for anyone by contributing food to a food bank, diapers and baby clothes to a crisis pregnancy center, money to a Jewish or Shriner's hospital for children, second-hand clothes to Goodwill or the Salvation Army without expecting a politician to do it for you? Have you taught anyone to fish (that is, helped him learn to make his living with his own two hands instead of reaching into my pockets)lately? Or is it your thing to take one of my hard-earned fish, give it to another who *will not* work and then smugly say you've helped the cause of "social justice"

Karl B is right. When my father left my mother she had no work skills, three kids to support, never saw a dime of support so applied for gov't assistance so she could get her feet under her. Guess what? She was denied because of the child support (which I repeat she never received), but a trashy, unwashed couple of hippies were told right away that they could get all they needed. This is "social justice"?

Karl B our hats are off to you!


Folks
Good night. Perhaps instead of complaining what other people get you should really be asking you you don't. Be well

AliveInHim
"How have YOU PERSONALLY sacrificed anything for anyone by contributing food to a food bank, diapers and baby clothes to a crisis pregnancy center, money to a Jewish or Shriner's hospital for children, second-hand clothes to Goodwill or the Salvation Army without expecting a politician to do it for you?"

Yes all the above and more

"... but a trashy, unwashed couple of hippies were told right away that they could get all they needed. This is "social justice"?"

That is incompetence but you were better than the hippies huh? Sounds un Christian to me. read my piece and perhaps you should grow up a bit

HalD (again!)
In France and the UK you can only get treatment for certain conditions if "they" deem you to have a sufficient quality of life. You have no choice in the matter. If you are in your 70's you cannot get major heart surgery. This, in spite of longer lifespans and advanced medical knowledge, is "civilized"? Do you really want someone else making your medical decisions? Think it through.

When Government decides its proper role is that of dispensing medical care, look out. It never leads to anything but rationing-and eventually you will be the one rationed right out of it.

There you go again, Hal
My mother was in real need. Believe me, I lived through that and saw it all. The hippies were just lazy. And yes, you can tell the shiftless ones from the ones who simply need a jump start-and making that distinction doesn't mean there's malice behind it.

The Bible makes it very plain that those who WILL NOT work SHOULD NOT eat. NEVER is it implied that those who are truly needy should be neglected. Further, there isn't one word there about the Government being instituted to dispense charity. The first government after all was instituted at the gate in Eden-an angel with a flashing sword to show its negative intent (enforcement of the Curse) should Adam try to get back in. Note well, he did not hold a basket of goodies (got at someone else's expense).

What exactly is your issue with that?




Another warm fuzzie
48,000,000 children, not dead and gone, but at home in Heaven basking in the love and light of Sweet Jesus who loves them, and who each love being in each other's presence in Heaven.

While we don't blink an eye over putting going-to-Hell Muslims, (who weren't going to see or enjoy Jesus anyway), thru the agony of dismemberment and death by our precision weapons, or so yanking them from the love and community of their families.

To Hal D
"Come talk to me when you care for the weak, sick and young until then your obcessing about potential people is just a sick joke."

Go to Gentian Baptist Church in Columbus, GA. Go to Taylor's Valley Baptist Church in Belton, TX. Go to thousands of churches across the nation that run or support homeless shelters, shelters for battered women, that support individuals through donations, money and time.

You, sir, are a fool. And I do not say that lightly.

Let this cup pass
"Many of them were fully formed and felt the agony of dismemberment (claims of no pain are not factual, and in fact, pain may actually be heightened due to the immature nervous systems)."

Please, Phil Harris, provide some objective documentation and evidence for this claim. If possible including some reputable peer reviewed professional literature with an evaluable bibliography. Or first hand testimony.

In any case, would any of those 48,000,000 chose today, in retrospect, to exchange the current heavenly bliss within the warm loving light and embrace of Sweet Jesus which they now enjoy, and its certain pain-free status of the Saved, for a term birth, sans that the cup of pain, so they could live here on earth among mere mortals and amid so much other pain?

Second to Hal D
Okay, I apologize for calling you a fool. That doesn't change the fact that you are demonstrating folly.

You do not, cannot, know what the people here give to support others. You do not, cannot, know the total given in this nation to assist the unfortunates you mention. However, you judge all these people out of the depths of your ignorance.

That is not wisdom.

Shelama - Pain for your reading pleasure
Here is a small snippet from a recently published New York Times magazine article...

Read it all, if you really care. Somehow, you seem to have a penchant for sending people to Jesus according to your own prescription, so I doubt you care if pre-birth children feel excruciating pain or not.

((( But Anand was not through with making observations. As NICU technology improved, the preterm infants he cared for grew younger and younger — with gestational ages of 24 weeks, 23, 22 — and he noticed that even the most premature babies grimaced when pricked by a needle. “So I said to myself, Could it be that this pain system is developed and functional before the baby is born?” he told me in the fall. It was not an abstract question: fetuses as well as newborns may now go under the knife. Once highly experimental, fetal surgery — to remove lung tumors, clear blocked urinary tracts, repair malformed diaphragms — is a frequent occurrence at a half-dozen fetal treatment centers around the country, and could soon become standard care for some conditions diagnosed prenatally like spina bifida. Whether the fetus feels pain is a question that matters to the doctor wielding the scalpel. )))

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/10/magazine/10Fetal-t.html

Fetal Pain NYT article
Magazine
The First Ache
By ANNIE MURPHY PAUL
Published: February 10, 2008

When does the experience of pain begin? Anti-abortion activists aren’t the only ones to argue that it may be in the womb.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/10/magazine/10Fetal-t.html?e x=1360126800&en=3485067b91364d6d&ei=5124&partner=permalink& exprod=permalink

To Hal D
"And it was the Christians that justified it and segragation."

Yet Christians changed their views on slavery and segregation based on an increased understanding of the implications of Christ's teachings.

"And it is the Christian religion that would have burned me at the stake following torture"

That concept (you had to go back two or three centuries to dredge it up, didn't you?) was never in accord with Christ's teachings. As the church and individual Christians came to recognize that fact, the Inquisition ended.

"So capital punishment is OK with your Christian god? What happened to you without sin...."

If you don't understand the bible, don't quote it. Christ's point was not that civic justice cannot be done; it was that the old covenant which delegated to humans the right to punish sin, had been replaced by a new one.
You see, in the OT, God had declared Israel 'his nation'. As part of that covenant, Israel was to root out and punish sin within itself. When Christ came, that covenant passed. Now judgement for sin (that is, adjudication of the Law, as opposed to simple recognition of right and wrong) is in God's hands. This has nothing to do with civic law at all.

"I gave up on organised religion long ago"

Is this the reason for your sour, cynical approach to so much in life?

Pain, Genetically unique
I have always maintained that fetal pain and the destruction of unique DNA argues against abortion. (Although Pol Pot, Stalin,Saddam Hussein, Bin Laden, Mao, Hitler, Torquemada, the Phelps, etc. were/are all genetically unique.)

And if fetal pain is established or reasonably suspected and pharmacologically eliminated as part of the process (of their pathway to Heaven and Sweet Jesus), then this particular issue and argument disappears.

Nevertheless, the question remains: ... How many of those 48,000,000 would chose today, in retrospect, to exchange the current warm fuzzie heavenly bliss of the warm loving Light and embrace of Sweet Jesus, which they now enjoy, and its certain pain-free status of the Saved, for a term birth, sans that the cup of painful (or painless) abortion? So they could live here on earth among mere mortals and amid so much other pain?

Y'all think they'd chose to live with you instead of Sweet "suffer little children to come unto me" Jesus?


To Shelama
I think that we don't have a God-given right to kill people in order to send them to heaven the quicker.
I wonder where you heard this philosophy voiced by Christians? Or is this a straw-man created out of your own antipathy?

I didn't say that we did...
I didn't say anything at all about "god-given rights to kill people in order to send them to Heaven." Quicker or otherwise. Didn't even imply it.

I merely asked where, given the fact of abortion, those babies were; whether they were enjoying their eternal Sweet Jesus warm fuzzy experience; and would they rather be there now with Jesus (with or without the pain of abortion); or would they rather have been delivered term and be here with you instead of there with Jesus?

I'm more than happy to leave the judgments and the punishments to god. Seens to me if god was all that upset about it that he would have put a stop to it by now. Maybe he likes the baby crowd, too, and keeping Jesus happy in the nursery?

Still, I'm not totally comfortable about destroying something genetically unique. Nor with fetal pain during abortion that is subject to anesthetic elimination.

Remember, the topic here is "Warm Fuzzies", and the thought of being with Sweet Jesus, from pre-born to Eternity, to me anyway, is warmer and fuzzier than the thought of being with you, or Phil Harris, or the Phelps.

And anyway, my Christian friends tell me that the pre-born are almost unique in going straight to Heaven and Jesus, no questions asked: Suffer little children to come unto me, etc. That cannot be said about killing just anyone. Most of whom would be going (do not pass GO) straight to Hell anyway. Including all those Muslims in Iraq or wherever else our precision weapons, 50 cals, (or mistakes) send them to their agonizing dismembering deaths. And leave their immediate families grief stricken with personal loss.

To Shelama
Wow, you are one seriously disturbing person.

In answer to your question: yes, the innocent go to God. Yes, heaven is a happy place. No, I doubt anyone would want to give up the joys of God's immediate presence to come to earth (though Christ made that very sacrifice, for our benefit).

As for Iraq: I hate war worse than most folks, as I've seen and participated in it (AM participating in it). Killing in warfare is awful -- but it is not the same as killing infants for personal convenience. Unless you profess complete pacifism and nonviolence?

If it bothers you so very much that Christians are killing Muslims, just cast about the internet for news of Muslims killing Christians; and Hindus; and each other; and gosh, lots of others to boot.

But...
...they're all going straight to Hell anyway, regardless of who kills them.

To Shelama
If they go to hell, that is God's judgement -- not mine. In the meantime, am I to accept that our nation has to refuse any recourse to military force?

Second to Shelama
But tell me -- what is the point you are trying to make with your statements about infants going to heaven, and Christians killing Muslims? Is there a point, or is this just irrelevant griping about a religion that you don't like?

Another to Shelama
Shelama means 'Peace' in Armaic, does it not?

I wonder how killing our own unborn children will help the cause of peace? I wonder how refusing to kill those Muslims who plot to kill us will help the cause of peace?

Indeed, I greatly desire to hear your grand strategy for attaining peace on earth. Have you one?

my 2 cents
1) Life begins at conception

2) Re. Hal - ignore him.

Tallil2long
"..Yet Christians changed their views on slavery and segregation based on an increased understanding of the implications of Christ's teachings."

Nonsense based on the force of law or at the tip of a sword. Next you will tell me the same thing about plural marriages among mormons? Look organised religion can be a terrible, deadly thing that what our wise founding fathers knew.

"And it is the Christian religion that would have burned me at the stake following torture"

"That concept (you had to go back two or three centuries to dredge it up, didn't you?) was never in accord with Christ's teachings. As the church and individual Christians came to recognize that fact, the Inquisition ended."

Oh really the "Christians" did a pretty good job against the Muslims in former Yugoslavia. That was not that long ago. 2 or 3 centuries allows you to ignore it? It was ion accord with Christ's teachings back then

"..If you don't understand the bible, don't quote it."

LMAO, wrong

" Christ's point was not that civic justice cannot be done;....This has nothing to do with civic law at all."

Christ said little about sex but he did say let he without sin cast the first stone - supposedly his very words. He said nothing about sex. Interesting

"..Is this the reason for your sour, cynical approach to so much in life? "

Actually I appy and comfortable thank you.

Late back to the discussion
and I've got class in a little while, but Shelama, if you want living proof of fetal distress during an abortion try watching The Silent Scream. Watch the child as he tries to dodge the abortionist's knife. See the blood that appears as he is dismembered.

Then tell us again that since he went to Jesus anyway, it's all good.

HalD-Your "secularists" such as Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Pol Pot, Mao, Amin, Khomeini and Hussein have killed more people, believers and non-believers alike, in the past 100 years or so than the Christian Church ever put to death for whatever pi$$-poor reason over the past 2000 years.

Your point?

Hal D
I have read your commentary in this and other posts. You seem to be an angry person spoiling for a fight to prove your superiority.

You ridicule others who have strong beliefs that do not agree with your strong beliefs.

Ok we get it. You are a morally superior person of wisdom who is superior in intellect and habit to the rest of us mere mortals. If you cared us much as you claim I don't think that you would respond to others as you do.

Am I misjudging you ? Probably, but don't expect us to have a different opinion of you if you keep spouting off as you do.

I await your stellar intellectual reply.

Tibby





Ironic protesters
Funny how it's almost invariably the ones who have no personal stake in our soldiers that protest our involvement in Iraq the most "for the sake of our soldiers". In my involvement with MarineParents.com, I find parents almost universally support their sons/daughters courage, commitment, AND their mission. Cindy She-man is an aberration of the nth degree, though much celebrated by the media for her accordance with their agenda.

Obama and abortion
Check this out on Obama and his stance about babies born alive in late-term abortions:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18647
http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2008/01/to p-10-reasons.html

Obama believes parents and/or women should be able to give a "thumbs down" on the life of their babies after a live birth, as they sometimes are in induced-labor abortions. I wonder just how a kicking, screaming child on a table figures into the "its her body" argument libs hold FOR abortion?

The second reference is by Jill Stanek, who became a crusader for "born alive" infant rights after witnessing the killing of such a child as an operating room nurse. What could be more clearly an act of murder than zipping an infant in a plastic bag to die?

Is this the kind of "change" Obama holds for our nation?

Tibby
"I have read your commentary in this and other posts. You seem to be an angry person spoiling for a fight to prove your superiority. "

Wrong actually I am just another citizen who wants to repair their country

"You ridicule others who have strong beliefs that do not agree with your strong beliefs. "

No I question those strong beliefs and will point out that not everyone supports or agrees with them

"Am I misjudging you ? Probably, but don't expect us to have a different opinion of you if you keep spouting off as you do. I await your stellar intellectual reply."

Not certain about stellar but here it is. You have to create a "fake me" to attack me? I realise this is a standard extremist trick and so be it. The truth is I am one person with opinions no better or worse than most folks.




HalD
Thanks for the update. You make more sense in this post than many you have written. I may be creating a "fake you" to attack you, but since I don't know you i have to go by the words I read.

You don''t sound as reasoned in your other posts. All you seem to do is parse the words of others as you have with mine. Tell me why you believe you are right rather than pick apart the words of others and tell them why they are wrong.

I know more about what you are against rather than what you are for. Calling others extremists reflects more on you than it does others. It runs counter to stating that your opinions are no better or worse than others.

If I am considered an extremist by you for the words that I write then I will wear the mantle proudly. Thank You.

You seem passionate in your beliefs. Try to spend more time explaining your beliefs rather than ripping apart someone else's. You may find it more productive.

Tibby

Shalom
My 1st grand strategy for attaining peace on earth is waiting for Jesus to get off his frickin' lazy derelict butt and come to the rescue. Come Lord Jesus come, and slay before you all those who would not have you be their ruler over them.

My 2nd grand strategy is working for rational empathic secular humanism to ascend over authoritarianism, tribalism and religious triumphalism.

Which do you really, honestly suppose will happen first? Or at all, ever?

AliveInHim
First of all, I've never stated it's my belief that it's good. I merely queried the implications of Christian belief: ...those babies are not dead at all, but alive in Christ.

In any case, the person you should ask is the pre-born, who is now, and in all eternity, basking in the warm fuzzy glow of Life with Jesus, and ask him/her whether he/she would now have it any other way?

The question remains: ... How many of those 48,000,000 would chose today their current warm fuzzie heavenly bliss in the Light loving embrace of Sweet Jesus, which they now enjoy, and its certain pain-free status of the Saved? Or chose a term birth so they could be here with you instead?

If pain is the issue, and I have always maintained that it is one of at least two rational reasons against abortion, then eliminate the pain (see Paul's article).

Shelama
Maybe you're a female llama? That would explain it.

curious
What a bizarre column. The idea seems to be that the death in Iraq is justified because more people have died under other circumstances.

I suppose Jeffrey Dahmer could make a case for his being misunderstood along similar reasoning.

This all seems to be an attempt to avoid the actual arguments which might justify the invasion of Iraq or explain why people have different attitudes towards pre-emptive war and abortion. (Stating as a fact that the invasion of Iraq has been a plus in the war on terror when all evidence suggests otherwise does not count as an argument). I suppose it is possible that Harris simply understands that his best bet at convincing people to his side is to avoid serious argument. But why do people enjoy reading such non-arguments?

To Hal D
"Nonsense based on the force of law or at the tip of a sword. Next you will tell me the same thing about plural marriages among mormons? Look organised religion can be a terrible, deadly thing that what our wise founding fathers knew."

Force of law and tip of sword didn't change *attitudes* toward slavery.

"And it is the Christian religion that would have burned me at the stake following torture"

"Oh really the "Christians" did a pretty good job against the Muslims in former Yugoslavia. That was not that long ago."

Can't argue with that. The centuries-long bitter hatred of Muslims and Christians in the Balkans doesn't excuse such behavior.

"2 or 3 centuries allows you to ignore it?"

Nope. It just shows that increased understanding of Christ's teachings cause change. Unfortunately, due to the hardness of human hearts, that change can be slow.

"It was in accord with Christ's teachings back then"

No, it wasn't. Read Christ's teachings and tell me which of them justify or demand such things.

"LMAO, wrong"

What a full and intelligent argument!

"Christ said little about sex but he did say let he without sin cast the first stone - supposedly his very words. He said nothing about sex."

No? the woman was taken in adultery, and Christ -- after sending her would-be executors packing -- told her 'go and sin no more'. This is quite clearly a judgement on adultery as a sexual sin. Which strengthens my point: if you don't understand scripture, don't quote it.

A beautifully written article indeed
I count myself among the few "undecideds" on the abortion issue. It would be nice to have a civilized debate with both fronts in order to get the answers I desire.

Certainly if Hillary considers Obama too pro-life, then she must advocate 40th trimester abortions. All of this partial birth stuff is embarrassingly indefensible.

Roe v. Wade, however, could use a good F-word free debate.

Tallil2long
"Which strengthens my point: if you don't understand scripture, don't quote it."

I disagree but you make some good points which I cannot answer now. I do want to make clear that I have no problem with Christianity I do have a rather great concern if not problem with organised religion. In my youth I thought more good than bad comes from organised religion after my granted unusual experiences I feel the opposite. But thank you

Maximilian
"Roe v. Wade, however, could use a good F-word free debate. "

Amen to that with the goal to find a reasonable solution

shelama
You're ignoring part of the equation.

A friend of mine is adamant that she should have the "right" to physician-assisted suicide.
For her, it's about dying. But for the physician, it's about killing. Ergo, she has a "right" to put blood on someone elses hands. And because we don't live in a world where God chooses to control our actions (which is a rather infantile view of God, btw) there are some who would willingly comply. The question is whether society should gives its blessing to that.

Similarly with abortion, for the baby it's about dying. For the mother (and physician), it's about killing.
So, you can offer the platitude that the killed baby ends up in heaven (although offered so sarcastically, it seems to be a cutesy way for you to take a jab at Christians more than anything). But IF we could take your argument at face value, you would be saying that because the baby ends up in heaven, that makes it ok. And you would be ignoring the other part of the equation.



SunThe1 - BINGO
"You're ignoring part of the equation. "

Yes we are and a great and valid point.

"A friend of mine is adamant that she should have the "right" to physician-assisted suicide.
For her, it's about dying. But for the physician, it's about killing. Ergo, she has a "right" to put blood on someone elses hands."

Most doctors I know feel like your friend or like a vet. There come a time to "go to sleep" in my mind but as you said what, why, when, where are very valid points

"...The question is whether society should gives its blessing to that."

What does everyone think? This is not religion for many this is life

"...But IF we could take your argument at face value, you would be saying that because the baby ends up in heaven, that makes it ok. And you would be ignoring the other part of the equation."

Not I, but if it works.... Seriously this is a big question and is being answered every day. It reminds me of when I was growing up before abortion was legal. My peers had D&C's for "irregular" periods; other kids had children or abortions


Hal
Thanks (I think).

Actually, one of the reasons (IMO) that it is so important to pro-choicers that abortion remain legal is precisely this: that disencumbers them from having to think about what they are doing and whether THEY are committing a wrong. No moral exploration needed.

Sun
You are welcome and well intended. Your mistake with us (pro-choicers) is that you fling moral around and it means different things to us. Do take end of life. My cat had irreversible cancer and could no longer walk or enjoy. I held her and the vet put her to sleep. To do otherwise to my mind is really immoral. I do ask the same treatment for me.

Hal
Ok, I can revise: No exploration needed.
('moral' deleted. intended meaning same)

I'm sorry about your cat. I have been in the same circumstance and know it is hard.
Just to ease your mind, end of life care is available to people in similar circumstances. It does not cause or hasten death, but is compassionate, relieves pain and anxiety, and they are often held by loved ones.

SunThe1,Equations & proofs
Whose equations? And where are the proofs? Instead of personal opinions and moralizations?

If *YOU* think it is killing/murder, then don't do it and vote your conscience/opinion. As will everybody who remains unpersuaded by your opinions/moralizations. (Paul's NYTimes article, btw, is not remotely an unqualified endorsement for Harris's piece nor your "equations", sorry)

Sorry again: in physician-assissted suicide the PATIENT performs the act, not the physician. And BRAVO! ...if that's the patient's free will choice and act. If you believe physician assisted suicide is wrong, don't do it, and vote your opinion. But at least make an honest attempt to get the equation right: the physician is kills nobody.

Re: abortion, YOU say it's about "dying" as if your opinion is an established equation, with proofs, that a human being sustantially equivalent to the already born person was killed/murdered. (Paul's article does not support that). The reality is that a unique genetic combination has, regrettably perhaps, been lost. Far and away most often without consciously perceived pain. And in all questionable cases, pain that can be anesthetized. If YOU believe it's morally wrong and killing/murder, then don't do it, and vote accordingly.

("Silent Scream" is a manipulation, viewable online: questionable narrative of fuzzy images of marked myometrial reflexive contractions, reacting to instrumentation, jostle the contained 12 week, 3-1/2 inch, 1.5 oz fetus, with no possible ability for pain perception, who YAWNS thru it, and MAYBE, POSSIBLY, show totally unconscious reflexive withdrawal movments. Admittedly the anatomy and embryology/pre-anatomy is exquisite, awesome, humbling, and developing per a totally unique genetic makeup.)

Principia Mathematica you're not.

aliveinhim
"There is no excuse for abortion; who actually needs to defend him/herself from a helpless infant?"

*****

It has apparently never occurred to you that
no one is attempting to defend themselves against a helpless infant. I am sure there are
many reasons why women have an abortion. Some
(maybe most) are extremely selfish. But most likely there are other less selfish reasons.
Some abort to "preserve the larger order" in their own families (what a choice phrase) from enraged parents, to enraged husbands (be it whether he doesn't want to raise any baby, another baby, or someone else's baby) to extreme lack of resources either monetary, physical, or mental.

Whatever the reason, I believe with all my heart
that the worst thing that can happen to a child
is to be brought into a family that does not
want him and/or cannot care for him. This is
worst than death. Sorry - worse than never having
experienced life.

We bring children into the world for many reasons, none of which include doing the child a
favor.

viruddh
((( We bring children into the world for many reasons, none of which include doing the child a
favor. )))

Which... presupposes, that it is "our" right to decide the disposition of the child's "life."

I, and most abortion-repulsed folk, believe that once the child has been granted his or her life, it is not ours to decide to take it away. It belongs to the child, and should be that child's God-given right to make what he or she can of it, regardless of the circumstances that awaits him or her in this world.

Each one of us reading today, have been given nothing less than that simple consideration. Some of us are happy and affluent. Some of us are abused and struggle daily. All of us have the ability to decide for ourseleves how we face the hands we were dealt.

.

sheama
You wrote: "Re: abortion, YOU say it's about "dying" as if your opinion is an established equation".

Oh, so no "dying" occurs during an abortion?
News to me.

That wasn't a "moralization" or an "opinion". It was a statement of fact: "death" occurs by any definition.

You'll have to do better than the typical redefine words (the meaning if IS).


virrudh
It is a shame that you are either so sheltered (that you only know people who were reared in priveleged situations) or so shallow (that you don't know from whence some people came) that you think people should not be born if they are to encounter any misery.
It's somewhat frightening to think of a mindset that sets out to be the judge of who should be allowed to start life. You would be that arbiter?
Yikes.

Dying
A FETUS dies. It is YOUR moral opinion that this is the death in all ways equivalent to the dying of an already born human being.

In any surgery in which tissue is removed (benign, malignant, diseased, or normal) something human DIES. Human cells die; human tissues die. But it is not the equivalent to the DEATH of an already born human.

If you believe that the loss/death of a fetus is the death/murder/killing of a human being, then don't do it, and vote appropriately when and where you can.

Shelama
I have yet to meet and shake hands with a piece of tissue, that was allowed to live. Never have I had the privilage of listening to a speech, delivered by a grown-up tumor.

A gestating child is not the same thing as human tissues, benign, malignant, diseased, or normal. The developing child contains the spark of life that inhabits his or her "tissues".

Ouch... Hey, enough of that.

I just stubbed my toe, and it called me a "#@*!%$". I will not tolerate such talk from my tissues. So long as they are living in my body, they will "live" by my rules!



.

sunthe1
It's somewhat frightening to think of a mindset that sets out to be the judge of who should be allowed to start life. You would be that arbiter?
Yikes.

***
No, not I because I am beyond the age. The
mother, yes. It does sound so very awful when
you say "who should be allowed to start life."
Back when I was a youngster, the idea of artifical birth control was anathema, because a person was deciding whether an egg was allowed
to develope into a life. And oh, how many
people were condemned to hell for that decision.

What I find incongruous is how very often
people who are so adamantly against abortion for
any reason are just as adamantly pro-capital
punishment (even now, when we KNOW that people
are mistakenly condemned as guilty), are adamantly pro-war (which is seen as being patriotic just because some idiot says we are at
war) without any consideration for finding other
ways of dealing with conflict, who are constantly
bellyaching about welfare payments to children
and their mothers who do not have sufficient
income to live decently.

I am not impressed with their "morality" any more
than they are with mine.



Amazing how
pro abortioners love to speak for the unborn child and know what is best for it. They've invented many an excuse to insulate them from reality of their deeds.

Shaking and listening
YellowGuy, you've also never shaken hands with nor listened to a speech from a 12 week fetus, and you never will.

And the normal nuclei from normal cells removed and killed cells in other surgical procedures all have the potential, if not at this moment then in the very near future, to become potential human beings.

The fact that some Christians who oppose abortions of convenience but support abortion in cases of rape, incest or danger to the mother proves that that all Christians do consider a fetus to be in all respects the equivalent to an already born human.

If your personal opinions and morality lead you to conclude a fetus is in all respects the equivalent of an already born person, you should neither have nor participate in abortion. And you should vote your opinion and your conscience where possible.

If abortion is murder and/or evil, and if it were possible for you to put an end to abortion but you chose not to, then you would be evil.

Likewise, if your god is capable of putting an end to abortion and does not, then your god is just as evil. And if your god is not capable of putting an end to abortion than he's a wimpy wuss of a god. In all cases I'm more than happy to leaves all actions and all judgments and all punishments on the matter up to your god. While 48,000,000 preborn bask in the warm fuzzy glow of Jesus in happy and Saved, alive in Christ, preferring to be with him rather than with you.

Meanwhile, I'm waiting for this same "come unto me" Jesus to get off his frickin' lazyass derelict butt and come to the rescue in general.

come lord Jesus come

NOT
< The fact that some Christians who oppose abortions of 'convenience' or 'birth control', but support abortion in cases of rape, incest or danger to the mother, proves that NOT all Christians hold the same opinion nor consider a fetus to be in all respects the equivalent to an already born human. >

Even within the anti-abortion camp the the rules, opinions and equations differ. Where are the "absolutes"? Whose opinion decides between absolute, conditional, opinion and moralizing? god? Then maybe god could post here his own personal opinion? Assuming he cares a ratsass.

Or is he out campaigning for Obama? Prepping Mitt for 2012? Raising his eyebrows at Huckabee. Yawning like the fetus in "Silent Scream"? What a wuss!


Shelama
((( YellowGuy, you've also never shaken hands with nor listened to a speech from a 12 week fetus, and you never will.)))

Oh come on now... you just made my point crystal clear for all to see. Of course I will never shake hands with a 12 week old (aborted) fetus, because he or she will have been killed. Duh.

But give that fetus another 12 weeks, and one day I may very well have the opportunity to shake hands with him or her one day.

But the point was... (whooosh through your hair) is that no matter how long you leave a tumor, or a chunk out of your leg, it will never be anything other than a tumor or a chunk out of your leg. It does not have "life" and no matter how long you leave it alone, it will not gain life.

A human zygot, embryo, fetus, infant, toddler, child, teenager, young adult.... has always possessed the life that was bestowed upon it from the beginning, and that life will continue until it dies of natural causes... or someone snuffs it out.

Honestly... such reasoning as you are displaying here, only gets me all the more fired up about ending abortion. It's almost as bad as cutting off your finger, because you might pick your nose with it and wipe it on me. How inconvenient that would be, and I shouldn't have to put up with it.



.

virrudh
It really shouldn't be so hard to understand how someone could be anti-abortion and yet pro death penalty.

One involves a innocent who cannot speak up for himself. The other should involve a guilty who not only could speak up for himself, but had legal representation to speak up for him s well. 12 of his peers have to agree, not just one. Nowhere else in life (in America anyway) can one person decide a death sentence legally. Nowhere else in life (in America anyway) is one denied a chance to speak, much less to live.

What's so hard to understand about that?

shelama
In case you hadn't noticed,God chose to give people free will. Not to intervene and stop bad things or make good things happen. That's a pretty infantile view of God.
With said free will, we can do much that is wrong.

But hey, you're the one who keeps injecting God into it. I certainly didn't. You also keep bringing up morality, which I didn't.
From my POV, the whole discussion could be had without religion,morality or God coming into it. Maybe you should do a little introspection and see why you keep coming back to that.
Hmm?

Infantile, tribal, idiotic, primitive
SunThe1, you're not the only one posting here, and a quick perusual will show I'm not the first or only, either by implication or more explicitly, to raise the issue, sorry. How did you get so narcissistic? But it's clear from your response that those concepts are the weak sandy foundation of your opinion.

In anycase, that's you opinion and your equation about the god in which you chose to invest.

The equation looks more like the Christian god is infantile, tribal, primitive and altogether unconvincing. Although I usually don't speak in such positive terms about it, is this case I make an exception

god can drop a ton of hydrazine on my head almost any now if he doesn't like it.

YellowGuy
Viruses & amoebas, like a 12 week human fetus, have life too.

You can't point to any specific 12 week fetus, among those 48M, for whom you specifically and personally mourn or miss human interactions that you might potentially had. The reason is precisely because it never was fully a human person. Not only that, it was NOT a life snuffed out anyway: it was, in the twinkling of an eye, alive in Christ Jesus in Heaven. You seem to think it was "snuffed out" because it didn't get a chance to interact with YOU personally.

It's a platform to strut your imagined higher morality. It is a matter of self-validation of your presumption of your own favorable standing with the tribal and primitive god you chose to embrace. You believe you are a righteous soldier doing the bidding of god in the army of god. And you give yourself 48M golden stars on your forehead every time you profess to mourn those 48M killed.

IF it's your morality and opinion that a 1 minute old conceptus, or a 12 week fetus, has all the attributes of human personhood of the already born, then don't have, support or enable abortion. Vote accordingly. Get all fired up, because of me or because of your inflamed hemorrhoids, and do all you can do end abortion. Who's stopping you? Why waste time here when you can be out lighting your fire?

Personally, I think the image of that huge warm fuzzy in the sky, of those 48M going instantly to Sweet Jesus, overshadows the noise, fury and smoke of you getting all fired up. But that's my opinion.

Are you one of those Christians who favor the availability of abortion in cases or rape, incest, or serious and dangerous maternal health issues?

One day you'll be able to speak and shake hands with a human being derived from a mature somatic cell nucleus. Bazillions of which normal living potential-rich human nuclei are killed every day. All that human livingness and potential, snuffed out dead! While you did nothing!


Perhaps, Shelama
from your typing...

(( god can drop a ton of hydrazine on my head almost any now if he doesn't like it. ))

...He may already have done so.

Why so much venom, for a concept you hold in such disregard? That often is a sign of a heart under heavy conviction and self-condemnation, lashing out at what is perceived to be the source of torment. In fact, the Word is but a mirror, and the torment comes from viewing our own reflections.

Really, Christ offers to take those burdens upon Himself, if you will only let go and allow the healing to begin.

.

Venom, Lashing & Burdens
You wish.

I'm enjoing a delicious fruit smoothie here; blood pressur 118/78; reading James Kugel's excellent book on reading the Bible; enjoying my niece & nephew; nearly finished writing my book; looking forward to tonight's lunar eclipse. Cancer surgery was successful and all but healed. Prognosis excellent: low grade, low stage, lymph nodes negative. The very worst that can happen is that I will eventually die of it. Nothing to worry or fear there. Life is good: family, friends, work, the food bank and the Hubble Space Telescope provide endless richness. Life is good.

Lemme see now ...hmmm ...burden? Ahhhh, yes!! ...I've not filled out my taxes yet! You're right.

Jesus, of course, died for the cynical, imperial, brutal arrogance and convenience of Rome. The resultant Christ Myth, a creation of breathtaking brilliance & seductive power, not only invented your imaginary "burdens", but then made you solipsistically subservient by offering you an "escape" from animaginary prison predicament, in which you have never really existed. Jesus would turn over in his grave if he ever found out what the Christ Myth and the "Cult of the Empty Tomb" did to him and his Jewish person, hope, message, scriptures and God.

Grieving 48M fetuses (dead? or alive in Christ?) is just another way or providing self-validation and worth for a person for whom, if Jesus did not really rise from the grave, hope (and life and all personal sense of existence, being, joy and personhood) are in vain. THAT is sad. That IS a burden.

Meanwhile, what are we going to do about all those bazillions of living somatic human nuclei, all brimming with the potential for human personhood, that are being killed every day?

shelama
or touj,,,
No need for labels and namecalling.
I see that indeed you didn't bring up God in your responses to me, but in posts to others, and I stand corrected.
I didn't understand most of the rest of your post, but that's ok. Probably best not to.

Shelama
Well gee... the beautiful thing about this "myth" of ours, is that in the end, it boils down to me and my God. It makes not a twiddle's difference to my destiny, whether you sizzle in self-imposed eternal damnation or not.

Liberals are so into "choice", but often ridicule the "mother of all choices" given to mankind... the free will to choose or reject God, and His offer of reconciliation.

You have made your choice, it would seem, with your eyes wide open, and the consequences will one day be known to you, whether you believe in those consequences or not.

There is an arrogance embedded, it seems, in the intellect we humans aspire to achieve. Such a vast Universe, yet many are comfortable with the nanoscopic sample of knowledge, and rest assured that they know all that is important to know.

I simply disagree with that contention, and submit that taking such comfort from so little is folly.

.

So little, not; so folly, not
Submit as you will, or as you must, according to the demands of whatever version of the Christ Myth which you embrace. And the degree of your fear of death and emptiness. Which Jesus seems to fill in not a few people who otherwise, sadly, find life so empty and without meaning.

I think it terribly sad that so many people see and experience life and themselves, in their depths, as so little and so pointless and purposeless absent a heaven or a Jesus. And who so terribly fear death and nothingness. For them, of course, be thankful for the Jesus of their faith.

The good thing about believing in the Christ Myth, what it REALLY boils down to, is that it matters not one whit that it's not true. What matters is that it improves the quality of and provides meaning to your life and that of your family and community. In some cases it provides, apparently, ALL meaning in an otherwise (sadly) meaningless existence.

It boils down to the warm fuzzy comfort of BELIEF where the universe and reality of life fails.

Fear of death and/or nothingness is indeed burdensome to many. Fear of death and the need to have answers is the impetus to both the creation and the embrace of religion. No folly there: just human is all.

Taking excitement and interest and endless fulfillment and numinous joy (or "comfort" if you will or need) from ALL the enormity of what is (of which I listed merely the smallest of drops) is neither "so little" nor folly. It is reality. It is life.

And good luck getting all fired up to put an end to the loss of potential human personhood. And don't miss the lunar exclipse ...oooops ....too late.

Shalom, and be well.


exclipse
eclipse

What debate is there with abortion?
Obama says abortion should be legal for the health of the mother, yet rarely is the mother's life in jeopardy since the invention of the C-section. All the excuses pro-abortioners spew have been easily deflated as either outright lies or ignorance. For Shelama, it is you who are empty. What have you to look forward to after your death? That might explain your gothic take on life. I have yet to begin to fathom what pleasure your kind derives from your love affair with nothingness.
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