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Wednesday, July 01, 2009
Michael Gerson :: Townhall.com Columnist
Cap-and-Traitors
by Michael Gerson
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WASHINGTON -- With the cap-and-trade bill passing the House of Representatives last week by seven votes, the eight Republicans who supported it were bound to feel some rapid, political warming. Conservative Internet and radio accused them of single-handedly passing President Obama's "cap-and-tax" legislation, which is a myth; Speaker Nancy Pelosi likely would have forced the requisite number of Democratic votes in the absence of Republican backing. But these eight Republicans were still termed "traitorous."

It is typical that we praise independent judgment and political nerve in our elected officials -- until they actually show those qualities.

Admittedly, this was not the best time to display conspicuous Republican environmental conscience. Obama's ideological overreach on issues from the fiscal stimulus to health care nationalization has put conservatives in a scrappy mood. The recession has brought the public's economic anxiety into sharp focus, while moving environmental concerns -- droughts in the Sahel or floods in Bangladesh -- into the hazy distance. And the House cap-and-trade bill itself was a riot of loopholes, concessions and offsets -- legislative sausage-making with an excess of offal.

But none of these political considerations change an underlying reality. A serious concern about global climate disruption remains the broad (not unanimous but predominant) view of the scientific community, including the National Academy of Sciences. Global warming since the 19th century is undeniable -- a trend not disproved by year-to-year variations. These changes are closely correlated with increases in the atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide since the Industrial Revolution. Climate disruption has become so rapid in some places that it is overwhelming the natural process of adjustment, reducing crop yields and leading to the extinction of species. Meanwhile, global carbon emissions are increasing faster than expected. Some scientists warn of possible "tipping points" -- the rapid disintegration of the ice sheets, the sudden release of methane from warming northern soils -- that could turn a challenge into a catastrophe of lethal heat waves and rising sea levels.

Is this scientific viewpoint certain or guaranteed? Not when the scientific models concern a system as complex as the Earth's climate. Neither is it guaranteed that an Iranian nuclear weapon would be used against that country's enemies. But the realistic possibility of disaster, in both cases, would recommend a serious response.

The range of serious responses is limited. The federal government might spend directly on new technologies that produce energy without emitting carbon. But government's record in picking technological winners and losers is poor.

Others propose a carbon tax -- a cost per ton emitted, with no special exemptions. This system would be simple to implement and difficult to game. But it would also disproportionately punish some energy-intensive American industries -- cement, glass, steel and paper -- that face intense international competition.

The final alternative is a cap-and-trade system, which sets an overall limit on carbon emissions while directing relief to specific industries through rebates and offsets. Cap-and-trade has been used with dramatic success to reduce acid rain -- but it has never been employed on the massive scale that the regulation of carbon requires.

Critics argue that carbon restrictions, even if fully implemented, would only reduce global temperatures by minor amounts, which is true. We are not going to regulate our way out of global climate disruption. The only eventual solution is technological -- the ability to produce affordable, clean power on a large scale.

But conservatives seem strangely intent on ignoring the power of markets to encourage such innovation. Right now, the emission of carbon is essentially cost-free. Putting a price on carbon would make the development of cleaner energy technologies more profitable. New technologies could be employed, not only by America, but also by China, India and the rest of the developing, polluting world. And it is an added (but not minor) benefit that American resources would no longer be transferred to Saudi princes, Russian autocrats and Venezuelan dictators.

It is perfectly legitimate to argue that the House cap-and-trade system is flawed beyond redemption -- so complex and confusing that it only benefits regulators and the lobbyists who outwit them -- and that Congress should start over with a carbon tax.

It is also legitimate to contend that, while the cap-and-trade system is flawed, it is better than inaction and necessary to spur innovation. And for eight House Republicans who took this stand at great political risk, it is not only legitimate; it is admirable.

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About The Author
Michael Gerson writes a twice-weekly column for The Post on issues that include politics, global health, development, religion and foreign policy. Michael Gerson is the author of the book "Heroic Conservatism" and a contributor to Newsweek magazine.
 
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Go write for Huffington!
Gerson,
You are a true idiot. Those eight Congressmen need to be given primary opponents to teach them a lesson. As far as driving innovation, I work in the electrical industry so I know a thing or two about this. Wind is a pipe dream and anyone who thinks solar can work is smoking crack. The one source that could work reliably is nuclear and our Demo-crap friends won't let us build plants. Until someone comes up with a real plan that includes PRACTICAL solutions, don't waste our time by apologizing for eight cowards who would rather be popular than protect the interests of American families and businesses.

There is no Climate Crisis

According to the article at this link: http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/press/proved_no_climate_ crisis.html

.....there is no climate crisis.

It says the sun has been more active in the past 70 years. It also says other planets such as Pluto are warming.

Perhaps, it is time for all good Plutonians to drive hybrid cars, install flourescent lamps, and paint their roofs white.


Another sucker for Global Warming
Michael, somehow you bought the lie that CO2 is causing warming, that climate scientists are convinced man is causing the earth to heat up, that crops are being destroyed, hurricanes are upon us, the oceans are rising, the polar bears are being destroyed, man is doooomed because we drive cars and use factories to make things.

How can you buy ANY of this nonsense? Don't you have any curiousity to read what the THOUSANDS of scientists are saying about Al Gore and how he is a fraud? Or do you always bite on scams designed to take our money and freedom from us?

Go write someplace else. Guys like you are killing our party.

Corporate polluting
... is like a company dumping their garbage in the city park. They do it because it's easier and cheaper than paying to have it properly taken away.
But when the people who live in the city finally wake up and say "Enough! Pay someone to take your trash to the dump like everybody else. We're tired of looking at it, breathing it and getting sick from it."

All of a sudden as responsible Americans, we're being mean to the big bad corporations. So it's going to eat into their profits to be responsible world citizens! Boo Hoo!
They've had all last century to pollute as much as they want for free. Now it's time to do the right thing and pay for what they pollute like all the rest of us.


Beaumandy
Since there are "thousands" of scientists saying that Gore is a fraud, why don't you show us how smart you are by naming, say... 3 dozen names?

You can't. The guys wearing white coats during the commercials on FOX are ACTORS, not scientists. Come to think of it, the scientists on Fox are actors too.

You're the sucker.

Recall your Senator
I am tired of sending e-mails to my Congressional representatives in Washington. They laugh at us. They have the power and we have nothing. I believe that we should change the balance of power. We can (in some states) do a recall on our Senators. Here is a link: http://www.ehow.com/how_2096900_recall-us-senator.html

I hope a grassroots advocate can give it a start. Tea Parties are no good without Action. That action must be recalls in the 18 states that allow them.

If anyone knows of any other way to get their attention, start blogging it. We the People must start somewhere.

Ramiro
If the Democrats are standing in the way of Nuclear power, why didn't the republicans use their complete dominance from 2000 to 2006 and get Yucca Mountain up and running?

That would be an easy first step to opening the door to more nuclear power. I guess the big tough majority republicans were afraid of the tiny coward minority democrats?

Oh yeah... and if republicans can save the world with NUCLEAR power, why is it that so many of them can't even say the WORD correctly?


To 'Ramiro' . . .
. . . about your comment: "Wind is a pipe dream and anyone who thinks solar can work is smoking crack" . . . I'm reminded of one other thing: the countless crazy, hairbrained "get-rich-quick" schemes spun every week by Ralph Kramden on "The Honeymooners" - including the most famous of all (surprise I haven't heard the eco-maniacs float around this one): glow-in-the-dark wallpaper. (Plus his no-cal pizza scheme, which would fit in with Obama's health care three-card monte.)

wes
William Gray, the guy who predicts hurricanes every year, says that global warming is a scam. Bob Carter says that ice core samples shows that 1000s of years ago the Earth was 5 degrees warmer than it is today. Also, that the warming of the Earth is followed by an increase in carbon dioxide by about 100 years. Carbon dioxide increases does not cause warming. Here is the link of a 4 part video where he talks about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOLkze-9GcI

Gerson - You can look at the video too to learn something about the Global Warming, oops - Climate Change - hoax.

The Politics of Hysteria
If what you say is true, and "Global warming since the 19th century is undeniable", then why was James Hansen of NASA (Gore's Guru) warning of the coming Ice Age in the early 1970's?

And exactly what kind of 'independent judgment and political nerve' does it take to vote for a 1500 page bill that one could not possibly read before the vote?

This legislation has absolutely nothing to do with saving the planet, and has everything to do with the centralization of political power in D.C. We are entering the era of soft tyranny in this country, and the world looks on in shocked amazement.

I'm so disappointed
in you, Mr. Gerson. Until now I thought of you as a fairly reasonable person. Not any more.

Number One: Members of congress did not even read the bill -- for all they knew they could have been voting to make ALL home sales in the U.S. subject to an energy audit and sales of new homes subject to CA building codes.

[Oops -- sorry; that's what THEY DID DO!]

Number Two: The carbon tax will make it more profitable for oil and gas suppliers to import foreign supplies -- this makes us MORE dependent on other nations for our energy needs, not less, and therefore weakens us geo-politically.

Number Three: You fail entirely to recognize or acknowledge the power grab that this bill effects. You fail to see that so-called man-made global warming and its cap and trade fix is a pretext for undermining our freedoms that are now daily under assault.

As for the eight republican congressmen and woman, I can assure you that I DO NOT ADMIRE THEM.

Someone has got to say enough is enough; they had their chance and they blew it. If these eight can't see the agenda of the left for what it is, then they need to switch sides or get out of Dodge.

And one more thing: Even my eleven-year-old granddaughter knows about sun-spots, solar activity and how it affects our climate.

Moreover, even you concede that while the prevailing opinion among scientists is that GW is man-made, MANY do not hold that view. THIS IS REASON ENOUGH NOT TO IMPOSE DRACONIAN MEASURES ON THIS COUNTRY, MEASURES THAT ERODE OUR FREEDOM, BLOAT AN ALREADY TOO-POWERFUL FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, AND WEAKEN US ECONOMICALLY.

Yes, very disappointed in you, indeed.

...
We need more nukes ASAP! Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, West Texas and West Colorado need to be covered with solar powerplants in a sensible fashion, but covered nonetheless. Expand Yucca Mountain depository and finally activate it. Expand space-based solar power generation research to a Manhattan project size.
When America sets its mind on something there is no stopping us.

I like to be thoughtful
Michael Gerson, I would like to be able to find something worth complimenting in your article. However, I can't. It was total drivel.

If you were anyone else, I would just say...you are a complete idiot! But, in the interest of civility, I will hold my piece.

This is my last Gerson article
I'll pass by you the way I pass by the other liberal posing as a friend to the conservative, Kathleen parker. How do you live with your self?

Cap & Tax
The science on Global Warming is anything but conclusive, indeed a recent supressed suggests that there is Global COOLING. Just why did the administration act to do this at the 11th hour?

However let us ignore all this for a moment and look at what is going to happen. President Obama PROMISED that energy costs "WOULD NECESSARILY SKY ROCKET", well that is one campaign promise he has kept with this legislation. However one thing which I haven't heard anyone address is the regressive nature of this legislation. The hardest hit will be the poor and low paid who struggle to pay their bills now, how in the name of all that is wonderful are they supposed to cope with huge cost increases. Unless there is a welfare component in this bill come winter a lot of poor seniors and very young children will die in winter. If there is a welfare component then all it will do is foster even more a European Socialistic Welfare dependent society - but perhaps that is what the Democrats want.

Ten Traitors 9 repubs and you
What a bunch of crap.

There is no global warming. The polar bears supposedly at risk on an ice flow were frolicking. They swim, you know. The woman who took it said they were in no danger - she liked the pose.

How coud the US cutting CO2 help when the rest of the world is having a high old time expelling it. Besides - the whole idea of carbon being dangerous is fraud.

This whole thing is for the profit of the congressmen who have invested in the companies planning to get the profits. GE - do you work for GE? Sounds like it. They will be the richest of all - along wioth Al Gore.

You know better - shame on you.

Cap & Tax
A further thought on this matter.

From the time of the Industrial Revolution to the era of the Clean Air Act in the UK British factories were belching out huge volumes of smoke and other atmospheric polutents. I remember the smogs of the 50's when London buses would follow a man walking with a flare so that the driver knew where he was and where he was going. It was so bad that they had to set up a Hospital Beds Register because respiratory problems were so great.

Now we never have smog, domestic consumption of coal is almost non existent, indeed I cannot remember the last time I saw smoke rise from a chimney. I recognise that there a lot more vehicles on the roads but most have catalytic converters and are much cleaner. I recall reading recently that the biggest single source of Green House Gases is Bovine Flatulence, so unless the Administration intends to tax cows or their owners this is really pointless.

Gore Cultists: Losing Their Minds
This column is absolute tripe! The consensus is actually changing about AGW. More and more scientists are questioning the "science" of AGW. Gerson seems to be a columnist who woke up one morning and just mailed in a bunch of warmed over bromides.

The best theory I have read is that, hello, it's the sun that has caused the earth to heat up. The sun at its peak blocked cosmic rays from space from creating clouds and the earth caught the full brunt of the sun's fury. Now that sun spots have disappeared and the sun is in remission cosmic rays are not blocked and, ergo, clouds are created and the earth cools down. We in the Northeast, especially, golfers can testify to this effect this spring and summer.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste and Gerson and Gore alcolytes seems to be living proof of that old adage: Use it or lose it.

Frank makes a good point
Enormous progress has been made since the 50s, but that is rarely acknowledged.

Those who use constant crises as tools to wrest control will NEVER be satisfied with how far we've come because we will NEVER be close enough to their definitions of utopia.

(Psst, Frank: they do want to tax American cows.)



nonsense
This article was pitiful. Even when most 'scientists' did seem to follow the global warming mantra, I didn't believe it. Now that more and more scientists are speaking up against it I feel vindicated. A lot of faulty methods and models were used to bring about a global warming frenzy. All the big money for research was only given to those who were trying to prove the validity of global warming. You know the old saying, "follow the money"? I remember very well the scare that the earth is cooling and we're 'all gonna die' back in the 70s. As the earth then started to have warmer temps the environmental nuts just swung around and started screaming that the earth was going to boil and we were all going to die.

I believe in God and I know that God would not create a world for his children that is too fragile to handle them. This earth is large and complex and we are ridiculous to think that we can effect its climate. We do have a responsibility to protect the environment from pollution and trash, but we can't change the climate.

AN OPEN LETTER
Dear X Generation Children of Baby-Boomers,

A 'valuable' word of advice. Better make sure your aging parents spend what would have been your inheritance to 'upgrade' their homes with energy efficient NEW everything, insulation, windows, roofs, furnances, air conditioners, lighting, hot water heaters, ALL appliances, toilets (or septic systems, if necessary) etc.
Cap and Trade-can't sell a house that doesn't meet government standards.
Also make sure your aging parents have their funerals pre-paid and let you know where all their important 'papers' are kept, for they WILL NOT be living as long as you thought they would. Government health care--Mom and Pop's death taxes are much more important to government than keeping them alive with health care.
Please be aware that your aging parents, after spending all of their money (which would have been left to you) will undoubtedly go into debt to make sure you inherit a GREEN house with the hope you can sell it to 'pay off' their creditors.
Rest assurred, however, the government will make you, the children of 'passed away' parents, liable and responsible for your deceased parents debts and due taxes.
Sincerely Yours,
'A typical aging baby boomer taxpayer'

P.S. Some mistakes, you our children made, CANNOT BE CHANGED and YOU will PAY the PRICE.


Idiot
Stupidity is hereditary, ignorance is a choice. Self inflicted in your case Mr. Gerson.

Please name an animal that has gone extinct because the environment has become too warm.

You are a fool. Don't let a peice of chicken little's sky hit you on the head.

Mike Johnston
SFC USA (RET)

See solar warming all the planets
under cosmology on Google: millions of hits.

So, the real science of astronomy has been looking at solar influences on our planetary for decades while the climatologists--who can't predict weather either for the future or the past--has d*cked around with bad computer models and Marxists politics.

Supposed new EPA report, suppressed by Pelosi, verifies global cooling for the last decade. There is an *In Search Of* with Leonard Nemoy as host from 1978 wandering around the channels that predicts another ice age with glaciers down to NJ again and mass migrations of Canadians to Costa Rico.

Global cooling would be worse, as growing seasons would shorten, much more fuel would be needed for long cold periods, and half of the European and American continents would disappear.

The last ice age (a mini one of a few thousand years) elimated the North Sea, English Channel, Thames River, Bering Straits, Manhattan Island, and left a glacier lake as far south as Morristown, NJ (the Great Swamp).

But National Geographic, the Weather Channel, and Smithsonian have bought into the MGW krap so that daily the WC goes berserk over 102 degrees in AZ and ignores the coldest wettest summer in the NE and Mid-Atlantic states since 1992 which was the last coldest wettest since 1907-1908. Isn't it always 102 in AZ--what is the fascination? It is to PROVE MGW is happening, when New Yorkers know they are still wearing jackets to work in July.

Bork the traitor 8
Mary Bono Mack R-CA 202-235-5330
Mike Castle R-DE 202-255-4165
Mark Steven Kirk R-IL 202-255-4835
Leonard Lance R-NJ 202-255-5361/425 North Avenue East, Westfield, NJ 07890
Frank LoBiondo R-NJ 202-255-6572/5914 Main Street, Mays Landing, 08330
John McHugh R-NY 202-255-4611
David Reichert R-WA 202-225-7761
Chris Smith R-NJ 202-255-3765/1540 Kuser Rd, Hamilton, NJ 08619-3828

Chris Smith said the leg. wouldn't affect NJ much. I asked if he wanted to end what's left of our refineries in N. Jersey and raise prices on all items in a state with the highest property taxes and highest insurance rates of all states, but he had no answer.

Tea parties; teapartypatriots.org. Take back the streets on the 4th.


Americans ignore history's lessons
Anyone with any common sense at all knows that overwhelming dependence on others for your survival is the road to failure. Americans are on that road and have been on that road ever since we decided that oil refineries would be better built in Japan than here; that steel should be imported instead of being made here; that the majority of our food should be imported instead of produced here; that foreign-made cars imported or made here made more sense. I'm sure there are other good examples of how we are cutting our own throats.

When we depend on government to provide us with insurance against our own failures, then we are destined to be slaves to that government, its controlling politicians and its bumbling bureacracy.

As long as we accept monopoly money as our currency, we are doomed to failure. As long as we spend now and expect to pay later, we are in a hopeless quagmire of our own making.

Goodbye, America ... Hello, Amerika!

Absolute Nonsense,
This article is absolute nonsense.

Yes, in broad, geologic time scale terms, the earth is warming. We're still emerging from the most recent ice age. We have been for past 12,000 years or so and it is likely to continue for the foreseeable future.

Climate fluctuation within these broad cycles is natural. It has been warmer in the historical past -- during the Medieval Warm Period Greenland was indeed green and Vinland did indeed bear grapes in abundance. It has been colder in the historic past -- during the Little Ice Age of the mid-1800s the Thames would freeze solid to the point where bonfires could be built on the ice.

Mankind thrived under both sets of conditions -- because we are an adaptable and ingenious species.

There is no "ideal" climate and to suppose that, if there were, mankind's actions could overcome the forces of nature to freeze the planet into climate stasis is utterly absurd.

"Global Warming"
Come on now - it is not called "global warming" anymore. It is called "anthrpogenic global climate change". If you are going to write about a subject, at least call it by its correct name. That way, maybe more people will take you seriously. And besides, they had to change the name because the globe has stopped warming. They wanted to change it "global cooling" but that term was used in 1970s. Thus, "climate change" it is, that way no matter what happens - warming, cooling, no change at all - it can all fit under that omnipotent rubric.

Praise for independent judgment is only warranted when such judgment is correct. The eight republicans who voted for this bill were just plain wrong (as were the 208 democrats). Besides the dubious science on which the bill is based, not a single member of congress could have read the entire bill. Thus, they voted for something they did not even understand and did not have full knowledge of. Independent judgment my butt.

The Global Warming Fraud
Global warming is the scapegoat that anticapitalists are using to scare the masses towards socialism.

How CO2, a gas that is critical to the cycle of life, can be foisted upon us as a POLLUTANT is beyond me. Do they teach kids about photosynthesis in school anymore?

Like all political meddling in the markets, cap & trade will make things worse than the "problem" it claims to address, & in ways we cannot imagine.

Already the eco-shysters have our politicians convinced that light bulbs filled with MERCURY VAPOR are safer than the tried & true incandescent light bulb. By 2012 a broken light bulb will require a Haz-Mat team instead of a broom & dust pan. You can't make this stuff up. Its ridiculous.

Oh Dear Michael
"...It is also legitimate to contend that, while the cap-and-trade system is flawed, it is better than inaction and necessary to spur innovation. And for eight House Republicans who took this stand at great political risk, it is not only legitimate; it is admirable."

Now the reactionaries lurking at TH will come and attack you as a RINO, anti-American, traitor, accuse you personally for flaws in their own personal character. But you highlight the very reason the failed Bush Regime was unable and unfit to govern: inability to compromise. This is a good piece concerning exactly how the American government is designed to function. Now, I hope that you enjoy the extremists here giving you back every talking point the ignorant limbawl preaches on global warming.

Traitors
We have very different expectations of our representatives it seems.

Even if one assumes arguendo that the Cap & Tax legislation will have beneficial impact on the environment, these Republican traitors have voted on a bill they have not read, which will have an economic impact they cannot know, and at a cost they have never discussed.

Have our expectations of our Congress critters dropped so low that we no long expect them to have even a cursory understanding of what it is upon which they are voting? Of its impact on the country, our freedoms, and our economy?

What became of debating freely on the floor of the House? Allowing the public to see in real numbers what the costs to the taxpayer will be?

Even if you look at these traitors in the most favorable light possible, what they did flies in the face of reasoned debate, and transparency of government.

McCain and Palin
also supported cap and trade during the campaign. I'd like to hear Palin renounce her position on this bad legislation .With people like McCain,Gerson and the cap and traitors in our party, recovery doesn't stand a chance.

Renny NJ
I called them all Renny.
I called my two senators, Mindless Mikulski and Clueless Cardin, and my congressman, Do Nothing Dutch.
I also called Malevolent Menendez and Laughable Lautenberg in your state..

Yes....,TEA party on the fourth.


Trust?
Just how would we, the public, know that "serious concern about global climate disruption" is actually predominant in the scientific community when it has been proven that the mainstream media leans left, when our politicians lie to us daily, when we read that global warming detractors get fired, don't receive grants etc.? I assume that most of us have figured out that pretty much everything revolves around money and there's plenty of money that has been and will continue to be made on global warming. Why should we believe anything at this point, that we can't prove ourselves?

Gerson
INDEPENDENT THINKERS? That implies they have the capacity to engage in higher thinking skills.

No, they're traitors who did not even read the bill.

Global Warming?
The scientific community overwhelmingly says global climate change is a naturally occuring climate event - and history proves it. The panels and groups, including the government sponsored one, were all muzzled and their strong majority opinion (opposing man-made global warming) was ignored in favor of the Administration's bigger plan. And someone keeps forgetting to note that the USA only contributes a fraction of a percent of "greenhouse gasses". People need to investigate the "Inconvenient Truths" and the falsehoods propagated by the likes of Al Gore.

Wes IL.
I read both of your posts.Who's the sucker Wes?

You still have that Barry Bonnet tied tightly to your head don't you?

LC
"Date: Jul 1, 2009 - 8:08 AM EST
Renny NJ...Yes....,TEA party on the fourth."

please tell me where the largest group of tesbaggers will be and how many will there LMAO

The Solution Is Available Now
We just need Cold Fusion to be implemented more widely. It flies in the face of scientific support but so does global warming. If you can buy global warming you can buy cold fusion as real science. You don't need to kill the economy to stop CO2 emissions, just ask the local Wiccans to cast spells to stop it.

Who knows maybe flatulent producing cattle and pigs will fly by the time the spells solve the problem.

Mildest June since 1913
Here in Tucson, our spring and early summer has been wonderful - 80's to 90's (far below average) during the day and 60's at night. Last year was below average also. Two years ago was very hot, with triple digits (as hot as 112-114) beginning in mid May and running through to Sept. It has been in the 102-104 range for the last few days, but with the Monsoons getting cranked up, we might crowd 100 degrees before our nice afternoon thunderstorms cool off the desert.

Old timers tell me this year would be typical for S. AZ "in the old days."

Take you Glo-bull Warming baloney and blow it out your rear!!! No one can accurately predict the weather for the next 5 days, and they're telling us they know what's going to happen 10, 20 even 50 years from now? Just how stupid do they think we are, anyway? You can't ignore or deny FACT just because they don't support your "religion," and that is exactly what the proponents of this huge scam and ripoff has become.

All HAIL Mother Earth and her Savior - Algore!

Poppycock and balderdash!

Darrel, the oh so poor victim
"Date: Jul 1, 2009 - 8:27 AM EST
Global Warming?...The panels and groups, including the government sponsored one, were all muzzled and their strong majority opinion (opposing man-made global warming) was ignored in favor of the Administration's bigger plan. ,,,"

Look it is not just this administration. If I recall at the end, even the failed Bush Regime acknowledged the reality. You can listen to the uneducated or the barely educated and cry prejudice all you like but the rest of us are doing something, an alien concept to extreme conservatives. Here is reality and from a conservative:

"...But none of these political considerations change an underlying reality. A serious concern about global climate disruption remains the broad (not unanimous but predominant) view of the scientific community, including the National Academy of Sciences."

Michael, were the continents under water
Michael, were the continents under water from the 1000's to the 1300's, the so called medieval warming period?
Were there a lot of cars on the road?
Were there a lot of smokestack industries during that time? A lot of electrical use and power generation?
Scientists say the temperatures were significantly warmer even than the warmest modern period of the 1930's. England was growing grapes and sheep were grazing on Greenland during the 1000's to the 1300's.
By the way that was known as the "Medieval Climate Optimum". Optimum. Do you get it.
What an idiot tool you are.

James - thanks
"Date: Jul 1, 2009 - 8:35 AM EST
The Solution Is Available Now
We just need Cold Fusion to be implemented more widely. It flies in the face of scientific support but so does global warming. If you can buy global warming you can buy cold fusion as real science. You don't need to kill the economy to stop CO2 emissions, just ask the local Wiccans to cast spells to stop it.

Who knows maybe flatulent producing cattle and pigs will fly by the time the spells solve the problem."

Perfect examples of reactionary conservatism underlying thought and philosophy LMAO

Gerson, you Drank the Coolade
from Al Gore's cup. You have lost your ability to reason. More and more scientists are now disbelieving global warming. My nephew pointed out that "whoever controls the language controls the politics." Everytime we use the word Global Warming we confirm that it is happening. Global Climate Change...that is now a synonym.

The US will accellerate its decline, power and influence over activities in the world by passing the Crap & Tax bill. We become more and more dependent on foreign nations who now have our manufacturing jobs. Without wealth, we have no influence or power.

It was well said by one of our past presidents that "You can't make the weak strong by making the strong weak." Our strong producers are becoming weak and it weakens us all.

Wes, wise up......
In your reply #5, you challenge Beaumandy to name 36 scientists who dispute the theory of anthropogenic global warming. That's no challenge at all. There really are thousands of scientists in climate related disciplines who don't accept the theory. In fact, as time passes, more and more former believers are coming out of the closet and joining the "denier" camp. Here's a WSJ article on the subject.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124597505076157449.html

Why this is happening is really quite simple. Global mean temperatures have declined since the peak hot year of 1998. Over the intervening years, CO2 has continued to accumulate in the atmosphere. If the theory were true, temps should have continued to increase every year. They haven't.

What IS different about the last 10 years is a decline in solar activity. Solar cycles appear to be the main climate driver. There is a clear correlation between global climate and solar cycles going back for centuries.

The theory was on shaky ground from the beginning. It really is preposterous to posit that a trace gas in the atmosphere is the main climate driver. Atmospheric CO2 currently stands at about 385 parts per million (PPM). To put it another way, that's just .000385%. Furthermore, the human contribution to atmospheric CO2 is insignificant compared to natural sources.

Human caused Global Warming/Climate Change has always been about politics and control, not true science. it's time we realize it and put a stop to this headlong rush to give leftist politicians power over power. If we don't, we'll regret it forever.

Time Mag. June, 1974 Part I
As they review the bizarre and unpredictable weather pattern of the past several years, a growing number of scientists are beginning to suspect that many seemingly contradictory meteorological fluctuations are actually part of a global climatic upheaval. However widely the weather varies from place to place and time to time, when meteorologists take an average of temperatures around the globe they find that the atmosphere has been growing gradually cooler for the past three decades. The trend shows no indication of reversing. Climatological Cassandras are becoming increasingly apprehensive, for the weather aberrations they are studying may be the harbinger of another ice age.

Telltale signs are everywhere —from the unexpected persistence and thickness of pack ice in the waters around Iceland to the southward migration of a warmth-loving creature like the armadillo from the Midwest.Since the 1940s the mean global temperature has dropped about 2.7° F. Although that figure is at best an estimate, it is supported by other convincing data. When Climatologist George J. Kukla of Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory and his wife Helena analyzed satellite weather data for the Northern Hemisphere, they found that the area of the ice and snow cover had suddenly increased by 12% in 1971 and the increase has persisted ever since. Areas of Baffin Island in the Canadian Arctic, for example, were once totally free of any snow in summer; now they are covered year round.


Time Mag. June, 1974 Part II

Scientists have found other indications of global cooling. For one thing there has been a noticeable expansion of the great belt of dry, high-altitude polar winds —the so-called circumpolar vortex—that sweep from west to east around the top and bottom of the world. Indeed it is the widening of this cap of cold air that is the immediate cause of Africa's drought. By blocking moisture-bearing equatorial winds and preventing them from bringing rainfall to the parched sub-Sahara region, as well as other drought-ridden areas stretching all the way from Central America to the Middle East and India, the polar winds have in effect caused the Sahara and other deserts to reach farther to the south. Paradoxically, the same vortex has created quite different weather quirks in the U.S. and other temperate zones. As the winds swirl around the globe, their southerly portions undulate like the bottom of a skirt. Cold air is pulled down across the Western U.S. and warm air is swept up to the Northeast. The collision of air masses of widely differing temperatures and humidity can create violent storms—the Midwest's recent rash of disastrous tornadoes, for example.

More From The "Genuises"
Earth Day 1970 provoked a torrent of apocalyptic predictions. "We have about five more years at the outside to do something," ecologist Kenneth Watt declared to a Swarthmore College audience on April 19, 1970. Harvard biologist George Wald estimated that "civilization will end within 15 or 30 years unless immediate action is taken against problems facing mankind." "We are in an environmental crisis which threatens the survival of this nation, and of the world as a suitable place of human habitation," wrote Washington University biologist Barry Commoner in the Earth Day issue of the scholarly journal Environment. The day after Earth Day, even the staid New York Times editorial page warned, "Man must stop pollution and conserve his resources, not merely to enhance existence but to save the race from intolerable deterioration and possible extinction."

And More Predictions
From Paul Ehrlich, author of The Population Bomb, in a statement celebrating the first Earth Day, 1970, April 22, (the 100th anniversary of the birth of Vladimir Lenin).

"Between 1980 and 1984 four billion people around the world, including 65 million Americans, will starve to death."


politics
Don't chastise the eight Republicans. Our Democratic Congresswoman voted no on cap and trade. I believe South Dakotans opposed it in great numbers, but the Democrats knew they had enough votes so she was allowed to remain in the good graces of her constitutents. Gerson, I'd like to see some equality of income in your case, so you can send me money to help pay the increased costs for food, heating my home, and gas. I don't normally grade commentaries, but in your case I'll make an exception. Too bad I can't give you a big minus rating.

Bringing up what McCain
said about MGW in the campaign has nothing to do with the *science* of MGW.

I'm amazed at the trolls who trot out something a Rep. once did or said 20 years ago when they never paid any attention to it in the first place and continue to elect gnomes like Lautenberg and Menendez in NJ.

When the Dems. threw out Torricelli because polls told them he could not win re-election and resurrected Lautenberg who had retired due to his age, an ENTIRE TERM BEFORE, 90% of a poll of Dem. voters revealed THEY NEVER KNEW L. HAD RETIRED. He could've been dead for all they knew. They would have elected him anyway. And as far as his voting record, he appears to be comatose.

In Hoboken in 1968, a ward leader who was in prison for loan sharking and then transferred to a hospital in a coma from a stroke was re-relected (unopposed) by 100% of the voters. Does that make MGW 100% verifiable?

The earth has been warmer almost all of its 5 billion years. It has rarely had polar ice caps. Their presence shows we're STILL in an ice age. N. Am. has mostly been a hot, arid desert. Its deciduous forests are merely a couple 1000 years old.

Cooling, not cold, is better for the N. Am. continent as the West has no water (see Cadillac Desert) and cooling brings more snow to the mts. for snowmelt to feed what rivers and aquifers exist.

Halitosis, tea bagging, I believe, is a homosexual fetish. Are your revealing your innermost sexual depravities? Typical lib. twit. Sex first last and always. I wonder if dlimate change alters homosexual preferences?

LMAO
Michael, the reactionaries are out with their ignorance, pitchforks and limbawl's nonsense talking points as promised. What next? the earth is less than 10,000 years old???? LOL

Hal (Murtha's buddy) PA.
Just like Wes I see that your Barry Bonnet is tied tightly in place.

I would not think that you had any interest in TEA parties Hal. Are you feeling a tad of patriotism as the Fourth looms near?

CARBON DIOXIDE IS NOT A POLLUTANT
Some inconvenient facts for Gerson:

_ Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant.

_ Computer climate models do not output facts.

_ Computer climate models do not output data.

_ Climate 'tipping points' have never been found in nature.

_ There have been several warm periods since the end of the ice age. Human civilization flourished in each, but the cold spell brought plagues, famines and dark ages.

Shouldn't you be at Huffingbluf, Gerson?
Apparently you haven't read "State of Fear", by Michael Crichton.

If you had, you'ld know this "climate change hysteria" is a media hyped phenomena aimed at cowering all we unwashed to handing over more tax money to be saved.

You dope!

Me thinks I smell.........
Mike,

As I read your stirring words, my bulls..t detector started beeping like crazy! Up until now, it only went off whenever Al Gore opened his mouth.

Get a grip on yourself and stop drinking the coolade. It may look green, but it's chock-full of crappy science.

By the way, I have it on good authority that Sarah Palin is the cause of global warming. You and Kathleen may want to look into this.

SOME SKEPTICAL SCIENTISTS
“I am a skeptic…Global warming has become a new religion.” - Nobel Prize Winner for Physics, Ivar Giaever.

“Since I am no longer affiliated with any organization nor receiving any funding, I canspeak quite frankly….As a scientist I remain skeptical...The main basis of the claim that man’s release of greenhouse gases is the cause of the warming is based almost entirely upon climate models. We all know the frailty of models concerning the air-surface system.” - Atmospheric Scientist Dr. Joanne Simpson, the first woman in the world to receive a PhD in meteorology, and formerly of NASA, who has authored more than 190 studies and has been called “among the most preeminent scientists of the last 100 years.”

Warming fears are the “worst scientific scandal in the history…When people come to know what the truth is, they will feel deceived by science and scientists.” - UN IPCC Japanese Scientist Dr. Kiminori Itoh, an award-winning PhD environmental physical chemist.

CAP & TRADE
ALL those in House who voted for Cap and Traitorous should be made aware that true Americans will do all they can, campaign wise, to make certain the 'traitors' do NOT get re-elected.

MORE SKEPTICAL SCIENTISTS
“The IPCC has actually become a closed circuit; it doesn’t listen to others. It doesn’t have open minds… I am really amazed that the Nobel Peace Prize has been given on scientifically incorrect conclusions by people who are not geologists.” - Indian geologist Dr. Arun D. Ahluwalia at Punjab University and a board member of the UN-supported International Year of the Planet.

“So far, real measurements give no ground for concern about a catastrophic future warming.” - Scientist Dr. Jarl R. Ahlbeck, a chemical engineer at Abo Akademi University in Finland, author of 200 scientific publications and former Greenpeace member.

“Anyone who claims that the debate is over and the conclusions are firm has a fundamentally unscientific approach to one of the most momentous issues of our time.” - Solar physicist Dr. Pal Brekke, senior advisor to the Norwegian Space Centre in Oslo. Brekke has published more than 40 peer-reviewed scientific articles on the sun and solar interaction with the Earth.

“The models and forecasts of the UN IPCC "are incorrect because they only are based on mathematical models and presented results at scenarios that do not include, for example, solar activity.” - Victor Manuel Velasco Herrera, a researcher at the Institute of Geophysics of the National Autonomous University of Mexico

“It is a blatant lie put forth in the media that makes it seem there is only a fringe of scientists who don’t buy into anthropogenic global warming.” - U.S Government Atmospheric Scientist Stanley B. Goldenberg of the Hurricane Research Division of NOAA.

STILL MORE SKEPTICAL SCIENTISTS
“Even doubling or tripling the amount of carbon dioxide will virtually have little impact, as water vapour and water condensed on particles as clouds dominate the worldwide scene and always will.” – . Geoffrey G. Duffy, a professor in the Department of Chemical and Materials Engineering of the University of Auckland, NZ.

“After reading [UN IPCC chairman] Pachauri's asinine comment [comparing skeptics to] Flat Earthers, it's hard to remain quiet.” - Climate statistician Dr. William M. Briggs, who specializes in the statistics of forecast evaluation, serves on the American Meteorological Society's Probability and Statistics Committee and is an Associate Editor of Monthly Weather Review.

“The Kyoto theorists have put the cart before the horse. It is global warming that triggers higher levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, not the other way round…A large number of critical documents submitted at the 1995 U.N. conference in Madrid vanished without a trace. As a result, the discussion was one-sided and heavily biased, and the U.N. declared global warming to be a scientific fact,” Andrei Kapitsa, a Russian geographer and Antarctic ice core researcher.

AND SOME MORE
“CO2 emissions make absolutely no difference one way or another….Every scientist knows this, but it doesn’t pay to say so…Global warming, as a political vehicle, keeps Europeans in the driver’s seat and developing nations walking barefoot.” - Dr. Takeda Kunihiko, vice-chancellor of the Institute of Science and Technology Research at Chubu University in Japan.

“The [global warming] scaremongering has its justification in the fact that it is something that generates funds.” - Award-winning Paleontologist Dr. Eduardo Tonni, of the Committee for Scientific Research in Buenos Aires and head of the Paleontology Department at the University of La Plata.

“Whatever the weather, it's not being caused by global warming. If anything, the climate may be starting into a cooling period.” Atmospheric scientist Dr. Art V. Douglas, former Chair of the Atmospheric Sciences Department at Creighton University in Omaha, Nebraska, and is the author of numerous papers for peer-reviewed publications.

“But there is no falsifiable scientific basis whatever to assert this warming is caused by human-produced greenhouse gasses because current physical theory is too grossly inadequate to establish any cause at all.” - Chemist Dr. Patrick Frank, who has authored more than 50 peer-reviewed articles.

“The ‘global warming scare’ is being used as a political tool to increase government control over American lives, incomes and decision making. It has no place in the Society's activities.” - Award-Winning NASA Astronaut/Geologist and Moonwalker Jack Schmitt who flew on the Apollo 17 mission and formerly of the Norwegian Geological Survey and for the U.S. Geological Survey.

Beaumandy -- many scientist who disagree

Retired senior NASA atmospheric scientist Dr. John S. Theon, the former supervisor of James Hansen

Princeton University Physicist Dr. Will Happer,

Dr Kusano, Dr Akasofu and Tokyo Institute of Technology geology professor Shigenori Maruyama are highly critical of the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's acceptance that hazardous global warming results mainly from man-made gas emissions.



Retired Award Winning NASA Atmospheric Scientist Dr. William W. Vaughan, recipient of the NASA Exceptional Service Medal,

Geology Professor Uberto Crescenti
This is a political movement that ignore peer review and all desent.

Too much kool-aid
Michael Gerson:Please step away from the kool-aid bowl.

Cap & Trade just a 'framework'
What I believe that most do not understand is that the 'cap & trade' legislation is just a framework. This passage accomplished two things. It set the stage for a policy change, and will give the POTUS a bone to bring to Copenhagen.

This bill allows President Obama to go to Copenhagen in December and tell the UN Council on Climate Change that the US is ready to capitulate to the rest of the world.

He'll use language that says the US is ready to join with the rest of the world in combating climate change. What he'll really be saying is that now that he's practically emptied the Treasury; he's willing to open the doors and let the rest of the planet loot the leftovers.

This cap & trade legislation will become the framework of a new UN treaty under which industrialized countries will be required to 'purchase' carbon offsets from 3rd world countries.

Countries such as Zimbabwe, Zambia, Somalia, and others who mostly have in common the fact that their populations live in mud huts and crap in the streets; will be given hundreds of billions in carbon credits yearly. Since it will be impossible for them to utilize all those credits being as it's hard to create much of a carbon footprint when your major source of power generation is a dung fire; these credits will be sold to industrialized countries. The US will be forced to transfer trillions of dollars to these countries in order to keep operating its own electrical generators.

You think we have issues now? $56 trillion in unfunded mandates, an estimated $14 trillion in deficit spending predicted over the next decade, just wait until Obama sells the idea of global cap & trade to the Congress.

After that we'll be transferring about half of our GNP to 3rd world countries each year. You think economic hard times were part & parcel of the Bush Administration? Believe me; ya'll ain't seen nothin' yet! Happy Independence Day; or is that Happy Interdependence Day


Liers and Fools
Gerson certainly is both a lier and a fool.

Anyone with a shred of intelligence knows that "man-made global-warming is a SCAM."

It's too bad Gerson couldn't have been aborted; but, back when he was born, America was still a moral country.



Disappointment
Essentially Gerson acknowledges that there's flawed research backing the conclusion, that there is no scientific consensus, that the cap and trade legislation is also deeply flawed, and Gerson extols those who voted for the bill, and speaks of the necessity of doing something about the problem, even if the action may be the wrong action, at least it's something.

Mr. Gearson, you should be deeply embarrassed that you have publicly revealed the extent of your lemming-like foolishness and failure to think.

It's always good to know, however, where folks stand on the issues, and why.

Amazing
Every night on any of the several science, learning, or other similar cable TV stations, there is at least one program on some dig for ancient life.

In every one of these shows, the chief scientist points to bones, fossils and other things uncovered and to the soil levels of the dig, and then mentions the various global cooling and heating cycles over the many millions of years.

It's amazing that SUVs and incandescent light bulbs have been around for millions of years. If only prehistoric man had a cap and trade system they might not have had to migrate all over the planet in response to the heating and cooling eras.


a Koolaide drinker
"It is also legitimate to contend that, while the cap-and-trade system is flawed, it is better than inaction"

A great basis for policy making -- do something even if it is wrong. I wonder if Mr. Gerson is up to date on his dues with the Flat Earthers? He certainly has no concept of scientific methods.
ronnie

JefferyP
Thanks for all the quotes. I see Hal has ignored my citation of a credible scientist saying global warming is bull and he will ignore yours too. I bet there are a lot more quotes out there that scientist say GW is nonsense.

Courage of their convictions?
"Global warming since the 19th century is undeniable -- a trend not disproved by year-to-year variations. These changes are closely correlated with increases in the atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide since the Industrial Revolution."

It's obvious that you are so indoctrinated by the CO2/climate change connection that you've closed your mind to any contrary views as is the case with all those concerned about the "impending global catastrophe" that, like lemmings, got in line and voted for this bill.

While you and they might feel courageous and righteous for "doing the right thing" in reality you are dupes of the fear mongering alarmists who expect to profit immensely from passage of this useless legislation.

And just in passing, rising CO2 levels FOLLOW rising global temperature levels by about 800 years, not the other way around. This from analysis of the same ice core data that the IPCC and Al Gore used to generate his infamous "hockey stick graph" the latter now removed from the latest IPCC report after being soundly and convincingly refuted due to mathematical and data discrepancies.

Anthropogenic global warming is not anywhere near the "done deal" its proponents claim.

Global warming and cooling are very real but overwhelmingly more dependent on natural not human factors.

Just dropped by to read the newer posts.
LC, I'm not sure what a "Barry Bonnet" is, but I'm sure that it's really clever and funny. Good job. You conservatives make me laugh consistently what with your funny names for people and things like that such as.


HAL in PA
You have nothing to add to the conversation beyond name-calling and insults. Considering how much time you spend LYAO, perhaps a fitting moniker for you would be - NO A LEFT!

For Russ in Mi. : Part 1

Your post was surprisingly intelligent for this website, are you sure you're not a liberal?
In any case, I hope you're right that what we're seeing today is no big deal.
However, from an economic standpoint, I fail to see why so-called conservatives are so up in arms about creating a whole new economy based on new technology. Why would capitalists not jump through hoops to create products from which every person on the planet would benefit?
It took our country DECADES to adopt every citizen to electricity. It took a couple of decades to get people interested in cable TV even. Wouldn't our economy be better off if conservatives and progressives worked together to make America a PRODUCER of these products and not just consumers of them?

Why would Capitalists not see the huge potential for our economy in changing every household in America over to new forms of energy? Changing every car on the road to hydrogen, electric or other types of fuel that will push gasoline out the back door of history?

For Russ in Mi. : Part 2

It's said that by the year 2025, there will be as many cars on the road in China as there are today in the entire world. That's 1.6 BILLION more cars. If we worked together to fund research and manufacturing of these cars every child in America would be able to get a free college education because our country would be rich from making and selling things instead of poor from outsourcing our work force and importing most of everything we buy.

SO. Do we argue over what may or may not be climate change, or do we use this opportunity to make America''s economy great again?
Do we call people who don't agree with us "Traitors", or will we put stupid stuff aside and start investing (Publicly, not privately since most of the companies involved are not American owned.) in R&D so that WE build the batteries, solar panels, hydrogen drive systems etc. that WILL BECOME THE STATE OF THE ART?
It's going to happen with us, or without us. As a patriotic American, I hope that AMERICA leads the way into the future and not someone else, while we argue about whether it's getting cooler or hotter.


WES IL
How can you NOT know what you're wearing on your head?

Loosen the ties Wes. Get some oxygen to that brain of yours.

Gerson
If global warming is undeniable, then why did its proponents have to change its name to "climate change?"

What is undeniable is that the climate models do not work. Their predictions have proven to be spectacularly wrong in recent years. In every other field of science, this would be grounds for invalidation and rejection of the theory. But not for the global warming/climate change religion, which is about feelings, not reality. It gives its followers pseudo-self-esteem, the pretense of moral superiority.

For the past year and a half that I have been on Townhall, you have written column after column of ideas which can only be described as pretexts for how to exert control and extract sacrifices from the American population in some way. That is the one thing they all have in common, when you strip away all the phony language about higher callings and compassion for the needy.

You are a malicious little man. Despite all your talk about wanting a higher good, the truth is that you hate Americans for being successful, happy, and wealthy without your permission and without your help. You feel a profound sense of alienation from a culture that rejects your impotent, psychotic philosophy of self-wrist-slitting, and a hidden part of you wants revenge. It is little wonder that you rush to defend your fellow traitors--yes, traitors, in the moral sense of the word--when they share in your orgy of America smashing.

At least you make a convenient foil.

Cap & trade bill 1200 pages....
I have started a petition on the size and content of Bills presented to Congress for vote. Please view and sign it at:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/bill_size/index.html

Heres what we do know.

June 2009. 8th coldest June on record.

Liberals are willing to raise the cost of energy hurting people on fix income.

Liberals are willing to put people out of work.

Liberals are willing to send more manufacturing jobs to China.

Liberals are willing to disrupt the economy for a political agenda.

Anyone who believes Liberals are "good people", I have some swamp land I would like to sell you.

How the system should work?
Hal Donahue posts, commenting on Michael Gerson's column praising Republicans who corssed party lines to vote for the Democratic "global warming" bill:
"This is a good piece concerning exactly how the American government is designed to function. "

Funny, and here I thought "how the American govt. is designed to function" included a strong element of vigorous opposition, lively debate, and "a choice, not an echo". It's other types of government systems that are based on everyone marching in lockstep behind the Great Leader and dissent being demonized and silenced. What happened to "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism," that mantra of leftists during what Donahue calls the "Bush Regime"? I guess it doesn't apply now that we have moved on to the "Obama Regime".

I am somewhat skeptical of "global warming" as a problem, and much more skeptical of the current cap-trade-and-tax bill, or any form of top-down government manipulation of the economy, as the solution. I would like to have a voice in government for my point of view. I won't go so far as to call the Republicans who voted for the bill "traitors". I'll leave it to the global warming fanatics to brand dissent from their beliefs "treason". But still, I think it would be healthier for the country if the cap-trade-and-tax bill ended up passing (if it passes at all) without a single Republican vote. Let the two parties represent clearly different points of view, rather than "bipartisan" mush, and let them be held accountable for the result.(And why would Democrats be afraid of this, if they really seriously believe that their bill will save the world while not costing anybody very much?)

Correlation is nonsense
Since 1940, when man-made CO2 emissions started increasing, temperature and CO2 have only moved in the same direction for 20 years(roughly 1978 to 1998). The correlation has been negative in all the other periods. So out of the 7 decades since 1940, 2 have shown warming while 5 have shown cooling.

Why would any sane person think this shows a positive correlation between CO2 leading to increases in temperature.

And Gerson's claim about the majority of the scientific community supporting this is an urban legend. The heads of the various scientific associations have been taken over by left-leaning political hacks who make scientific pronouncements representing their respective association without any polling or actual agreement and support from their members.

This is a complete lie and scam and Gerson should be ashamed for perpetuating this falsehood. Any one who challenges this assessment, provide proof of any survey or statement showing the so-called majority, and what is the actual statement being signed on to. Good luck, it doesn't exist.

LC
Another really good post. Very relevant to the discussion. Good for you.

Alarmist
This article is a joke. Doom and gloom scenarios that have no scientific backing.

He claims " Climate disruption has become so rapid in some places that it is overwhelming the natural process of adjustment, reducing crop yields and leading to the extinction of species." but he doesn't cite any proof that MGW is causing any of this.

Fraudulent and dishonest computer software (models) have become a joke.

He fails to mention that Co2 follows Temp. rise, not the other way around and that Co2 has risen when the earths temp. dropped in the past.
He also doesn't tell you that satellite data shows that the mean global temperature is the same that it was in 1979, the extent of global sea ice is also unchanged from 1979 and hurricane and typhoon activity is at a record low.

The Earth has been cooling for 10 years - a trend that “was not predicted by the alarmists computer models.

Use full Idiot:
Jesus was a liberal.

Use full idiot.
Sorry I shouldn't have stopped with the Jesus comment.

The people that sent jobs to China are the owners and management of the companies that did so. I'll bet you dollars to donuts that those people are more conservative than you.

If you hate the people that are closing our factories here and opening them up in china, malaysia, india etc. I'm right there with you. But the sad truth is that those people are the same ones who argue against import tariffs that would level the playing field for manufacturers in America. They argue against the type of health care system that would lift the huge burden off our manufacturers and allow them to compete with other countries who have better systems than we do.

If you hate the people that disrupted the economy for political purposes, then we again hate the same people.
Less oversight of banking and lending and exchange practices has led us to where we are today. The people responsible for that are both Democrats and Republicans.

Allowing Banks to trade commodities and buy and sell mortgage backed securities opened them up to huge profits and HUGER risks. They make the profits and as we've seen, we, the taxpayers take the risk.

You don't hate liberals. I'm a liberal and I agree with you because I'm as mad as you are.

We're mad at Politicians of all stripes that have wrecked our country while making themselves richer that we could ever imagine.

Esp. you, Aposematic
"It is typical that we praise independent judgment and political nerve in our elected officials -- until they actually show those qualities"

You all appear to be making Mr. Gerson's point perfectly, with ideological logic and debunked arguments.

JoQQeb nails it on the head
You are exactly right about what this whole charade really is about.

This is the mother of all wealth redistribution scams. We will pay all of these 3rd world quagmires for the right to use their carbon credits to keep our economy from collapsing. Meanwhile, the poor people living in poverty we can't even imagine will continue to do so while the Muggabe's and other tinhorn dictators in charge will put billions into their Swiss bank accounts.

A final looting of our treasury is exactly what this will be. But our Leftis Loons like Wes will be happy because we're saving the planet. Along with that bonnet, I bet he wears a cape that has a crest for Captain Planet on it.

Wealth distribution ???

There will be no wealth to distribute after Cap & Trade is enacted.

Perhaps, we will to go back to 1800 and start over.

Wes
"We're mad at Politicians of all stripes that have wrecked our country while making themselves richer that we could ever imagine."

Hmm..Is that why you keep voting for them time after time?

wes

Well I really don't know much about Jesus. I am not a Christian.

I do beleive Jesus advocated charity from the heart.

Liberals on the other hand advocate forced charity.

I think Jesus got it right.

Reply to Wendy in WA....
WOW...I like the way you think.....get out the can of "whoop-a$$" on Gerson....lol...

If by chance you're pro-gun, I'll melt right in my shoes.....lol...

This is
a piece of crap. Global Warming is a monumental hoax. Gerson is just one more hack who I won't be reading on Townhall in the future.

Wes IL.
Capitalists DO see the potential of GREEN energy. Al Gore (his fingers are crossed),may become the first GREEN billionaire. Nancy Pelosi will do nicely too. Let's not forget Geoff Immelt, CEO of General Electric, he has a lot of money riding on this Capn'trade horse.

All this information is out there for you. Do some investigating instead making idle queries here at T.H..

Your arguments here are based on false logic and hyperbole! You've not read the Capn'Trade bill.NO ONE in Congress read it either!

Please do not be naive.

Those eight Republicans who were stupid enough to vote for it are traitors not because they were altruistic enough to want clean air, they voted YES for political reasons.

Where's the debate Wes? Where are the scientists who disagree? They're out there.

What is happening in D.C. is dirty and wrong.

I have read some serious tripe
before but this takes the prize.

And those Republicans that voted for this, especially those from California, need to get the boot. Forget about any economic recovery if this passes the Senate. Your cost of living will sky rocket and your standard of living will decrease exponentially.

As to GW, there isn't any, along with all the other so called science based crack pot ideas from the left.

Even if
Even if we were to buy into the entirety of the man-made global warming narrative (which is by no means a slam-dunk case), this bill was a hideous affront to taxpaying Americans. If passed by the Senate as written, it would bring a certainty of dire economic consequences, and yet negligible benefits vis a vis global warming.

As for showing "leadership" to the world, I doubt that India and China will be able to contain their mirth as they watch their economic competition destroy itself. They are likelier to see this bill as an example of exactly what -not- to do in their own countries.

China, India
China and India have to be loving this. Knowing that this scam will end up creating millions of jobs to their economies that will end up leaving here. China should not only be celebrating future jobs but the billions of dollars that were promised in earmarks to buy the votes for this treasonous bill which the Chinese basically financed.

C'mon folks--
What would you expect from a member of the Congress on Foreign Relations, the Washington Post and a globalist????

I made a mistake and read the article. For this, I,
"who took this stand at great political risk, it is not only legitimate; it is admirable."

mij61, Reply # 81
He also doesn't tell you that satellite data shows that the mean global temperature is the same that it was in 1979
-------------------------------------------------------
Since both RSS and UAH satellite data show a .5°C increase since 1979, I really have to wonder where you are getting your satellite data.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Satellite_Temperatures.pn g

Climate Changes
I read an article in the paper by a climatologist a couple of years ago that caught my attention. He had been studying climates and climate changes for over sixty years.

His comment was that the ability we have had to foretell weather from one year to the next was actually NOT the custom for the world. It was an aberation that had lasted about seventy years or so. The "Natural" weather of the world was droughts and flooding. You wouldn't know for one week to the next what the weather could be like - certainly not from one year to another.

The real reason for his comments was that our agriculture (food supply) depends at present on foretelling the weather for a year in advance. He was warning all nations to plan on losing up to 1/2 their crops every year - to NATURAL weather patterns.

So why the concern now that we are going back to natural weather patterns? It certainly isn't man's fault! Mankind just isn't that powerful, despite what some people would like to believe.

PV, Reply # 79
Why would any sane person think this shows a positive correlation between CO2 leading to increases in temperature.
------------------------------------------------------
Maybe because there is a positive correlation between CO2 leading and increases in global mean temperature. Here is a link that explains how you can determine this for yourself.

http://tinyurl.com/l48ezd

Global environmentalism
Ever stop to think about global changes? The U.S. have 3% of the world's population. China, India, and several other countries produce more pollution than we do every year. But WE are the ones who are supposed to cut back enough to off-set all the pollution in the world.

Sounds like an EPA thing in El Paso a couple of years ago. The EPA was trying to get El Paso to cut back on pollutants to a point where they considered it "safe". El Paso produced evidence that if they shut down everything, the pollution coming across the border from Mexico would still result in exceeding the EPA standards for clean air.

Even more amusing to me? One of our Congressmen, when this was pointed out to them, made the statement that the border would stop the pollutants in the air.

45caliber, Reply # 97
I read an article in the paper by a climatologist a couple of years ago that caught my attention. He had been studying climates and climate changes for over sixty years.

His comment was that the ability we have had to foretell weather from one year to the next was actually NOT the custom for the world. It was an aberation that had lasted about seventy years or so. The "Natural" weather of the world was droughts and flooding. You wouldn't know for one week to the next what the weather could be like - certainly not from one year to another.
-----------------------------------------------------
This makes me wonder if your source understands the difference between "weather" and "climate".

Even the best supercomputer would have trouble predicting the path of a ball dropped into a pachinko machine, but anyone can tell you that it will end up at the bottom.

How many know what cap and trade is??
The title - cap and trade - is bandied about quite a bit but I've not seen anyone try to explain it in terms anyone can understand. MY reading of it is: All companies (and people) would have their energy use capped at the existing level of use - or even at reduced levels. If you use more, you must pay massive amounts of money for extra energy. You can trade these "carbon credits" (carbon being produced in the creation of energy) to others so they can have more and you have even less.

The energy use would limit growth. A company could not expand and hire more people unless they can acquire these carbon credits from someone else ... which would mean someone else must cut back and lay off people. Carbon credits would be very expensive - which would encourage companies to do all their growth over seas in countries where this does not occur - and hire people there instead of here.

But don't worry! The government has a solution for that too. They will add an energy tax to the creation of energy - and to all the items imported for our use. So we would pay more for what we have and use - quite a bit more. That gives the government more money to spend to remain in power and cuts sharply into what we can afford to buy.

So instead of one car large enough for your family, you have to buy a smaller one - which requires two trips to get the family from one place to another. Or, of course, you can have only one child instead of two or three. All costs of all things go up so the companies can cover their expenses - energy taxes. So you can afford less for yourselves and your children. No more large houses (higher energy costs), no large amount of toys for your kids, no vacations, no extra clothes, no going to a restaurant, no anything except going to work and buying necessities for life.

And the people who doesn't want to understand this cheerfully call for us to do it.

camanintx:
But the weather isn't dropping every minute, is it? Climate study is the study of weather over millinia, not from day to day. Do you realize the difference? The climate expert is saying that the weather patterns are changing BACK to what is the norm - which is not predictable weather patterns. The weather temperatures go up and down every day - almost every minute.

Here on the Texas coast we used to expect about 72" of rain a year. Now we may get half that - or twice that amount. That is climate, not weather.

Therefore your simile was meaningless.

Climate change
When the climate changed hundreds and thousands of times in this
globe's future, I wonder who the dinosaurs blamed? It's amazing how the human race thinks we are so important in the scheme of
our universe. When the next piece of outer space comes hurtling at us we'll just wave our wands and it will disappear. How naive we are.
It's time we got off our 'high horses' and got down on our knees.
That's the ONLY solution.
By the way, Janet Napolitano, I am a right wing extremist, who loves this country with a passion. God Bless America, when He gets through with it.

Global Supposed Warming
I never thought Mike Gerson would offer such an idiotic opinion about anthropogenic global warming. Science is decidedly not on his side. Even if he is correct what about the third world nations that will out compete our industries that are disadvantage by this ineffective "solution"?

Why pay a theif to hold your wallets
Cap-and-Traitors

Well the house Traitors without any understanding for the Bill, rubber stamp voted the Cap and Trade bill. This is by far the most arrogant and irresponsible act of politicians who have by there own action have become lame ducks. To this reality we must work to replace the Congressmen and Senators who are selling out on this and other plans to special interest groups and lobbyists with people who represent our interests. We all say that they work for us but by this action it has flipped.

This is going to be a tax that will hit us all. It comes under the “you can pay me now or later” but don’t forget it, we will pay. Why pay a thief to hold our wallets?

We talk about it more than act but the next election will be the time we vote to KO all who support Captains Traitor

CamaninTX
Here is a video that shows CO2 elevation follows temperature rise by about 100 years. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOLkze-9GcI

It also explains that the Earth was once 5 degrees warmer than it is today.

Gerson missed the real alternative
"The final alternative is a cap and trade system" ?? My, what a myopic statement. If we want large amounts of carbon-free energy, the government needs to take the shackles off the nulear energy producers. Why is this not an alternative? The nuclear energy marketplace will work remarkably well to supply this countries energy needs. If you let it.

Silver Lion
Oh, I am definitely pro-gun. I am actually a radical as far as gun rights goes. I don't tolerate any compromise or appeasement with the handgun banners, either.

Frey
"It is typical that we praise independent judgment and political nerve in our elected officials -- until they actually show those qualities."

One does not praise people for using these traits in the service of evil, even if we did believe that the cap-and-traitors were demonstrating these, which we do not. They have other motives. You wouldn't praise Hitler for showing perseverance and ingenuity.

Idiot alert
"floods in Bangladesh..."

Caused mostly by clear-cutting forests and not by so-called global warming.

"...in the Sahel"

Again caused mostly by practices in the Sahel and nothing to do with global warming just as you have in northern China.

"Global warming since the 19th century is undeniable..."

Oh no it is not. There have been cooling periods and warming periods, and this year Arizona had had the fewest 100+ days since 1913 (which was the last time sunspots were at the same minimum as they are in 2009).

"But the realistic possibility of disaster, in both cases, would recommend a serious response."

So tell us, AH, what should the ideal mean temp for the earth be? If you can't answer that you have no business trying to f with the thermostat.


My final advice to you is Diu Nie Lo Mo, in other words, go f yourself. Can TH please fire this fool, thank you.





Oh Bush
He worked for Bush, that explains much. The same clown that signed that f'ing light bulb bill.


Crap and Tripe
We need to study the Earth's reaction to our Sun cycles and our natural emissions way more than to our own limited cause of climate change. We also need to allow all studies (EPA,NASA) to surface and get published rather than to silence them for political or financial gain. If we allow the mass media to treat the sides of Environmental Change as we do the sides of Evolution then what can we expect but having to produce another movie like "Expelled" by Ben Stein.

h20skier
I wonder if this idiot Gerson has ever heard of the MWP, any SUVs then jerkweed? Recall Greenland was actually green and the vikings have sheep in pastures and had grape vines there? Recently mining tools were found in the Alps after glaciers melted to exposed them, left there during the MWP. I guess Gerson would rather have Chicago under a mile of ice?

-60 below zero in Siberia is much better for them than the usual -40 below.


Too bad
Too bad that there is no score lower than one.

"Global warming since the 19th century is undeniable"

Michael Gerson is an idiot. THAT is undeniable.

MARKET AS ENGINE OF INNOVATION
Mr. Gearson, artificial inflation of costs by the government has zero to do with "the market."

By the way, leaving aside other practical and moral problems with the bill, Congress does not actually have the power under the Constitution to legislate on the subject. See U.S. Const. Art. I, sec. 8 and Amend. X.

Tom
In Kungfu Panda, the Panda asked Shifu (means master) could he start at level zero, Shifu answer was there was no level zero, after the Panda's display, Shifu replied "there now is a level zero."

For this article I'd say there is now a check mark zero too.


MARKET AS ENGINE OF INNOVATION
Mr. Gearson, artificial inflation of costs by the government has zero to do with "the market."

By the way, leaving aside other practical and moral problems with the bill, Congress does not actually have the power under the Constitution to legislate on the subject. See U.S. Const. Art. I, sec. 8 and Amend. X.

Cap and Traitors
It is not "concensus" within the scientific community that global warming is anything other than just a cyclical phenomenon. Carbon dioxide in the amounts we currently have in the atmosphere are well under historical levels of the distant past when plant and animal life flourished.

The ability to wield a pen does not a scientist make. Gerson, you prove that fact by your article.

In case you missed it, 700 climate scientists just last month signed a statement that global warming is not caused by man and is probably just a recurrent event. Of course, the fact that global temperatures have flat-lined or gone down for the last decade goes without your comment.

Gore's famous "hockey-stick" graph showing the recent rise in global temperatures failed to account for the 1600 Siberian/Arctic reporting stations lost when the old Soviet Union Collapsed. But, that surely did make a convenient "untruth" for Gore to foment.

Remember, the 1970's when the next Ice Age was just around the corner? I will worry more about the environment when scientists weigh in whose research is not for sale to the highest "green" contributor. At last look, my meteorologist could not get his computer model to tell my whether I could expect to fly my plane with or without a headwind tomorrow for certain. So how can those same models predict global climate changes and their causes? They cannot.

EIGHT VOTES LOST TO THE CAP AND TRAITORS IS A REAL CAUSE FOR ECONOMIC CONCERN.

Cap and Trade
Might as well be called ration and sell. Or for the individual "Tax and double tax"

Global warming undeniable? Utter Rubbish -- CLIMATE change undeniable??

-- TRUE -- happens all the time.

This is bad regulation.

Just wondering if the world grows cooler do we make more gas guzzling SUVS to heat it back up??

Oh and BTW, WHO is warming Mars??

Ger-idiot
You might also note that the #1 country the US imports oil from are those awful, evil, dangerous, mayonnaise-eating, beer drinking, hockey-watching, Canucks.

If the US does as Gerson wants, I hope every American business that can pulls up stakes and leaves the country and let the US with 50% unemployment enjoy their pristine environment and all their green jobs.

Well, brother, you asked for it. (Extra points to point out that reference).


Jo
"Oh and BTW, WHO is warming Mars??"

And Pluto, the ex-planet.

Suvs on Pluto now?

how about the will of the people?
Independence is great but not when you are supposedly representing constituents and they are opposed. These folks aren't sent there to do what they choose, they are sent to do the will of the people they represent.


CamaninTx 1:55 pm
That was a pretty lame attempt at demonstrating a correlation showing increases in CO2 leading to increases in temperature. Actually, the opposite is what is indicated in both ice cores and in the graph you showed. The resolution is so poor in your graph I'm not sure how anything could be claimed from it.

When the Vostok ice cores were first examined researchers believed the correlation you are claiming was indicated. This is what really started the hysteria and to date, is really the only empirical data that could possibly be used to justify the hypothesis of CO2-driven warming. However, only a few years later resolution techniques had greatly improved and a reverse correlation was shown with CO2 increases actually being a lagging effect of temperature increases.

Is it really hard to understand that CO2 levels have risen since the end of the Little Ice Age approx 150 years ago? As the oceans have warmed, CO2 has been released into the atmosphere. The natural component dwarfs the meager human contribution.

During the last 10 years CO2 has continued to increase while all temperature metrics are showing cooling. The atmosphere, surface, and oceans are all cooling. This is impossible if CO2 is supposed to build up latent heat in the biosphere. Where is all that heat going? When are you Warmers going to confront reality and admit your hypothesis doesn't hold water?

That is a rhetorical question and I'm certainly not going to hold my CO2 waiting for the answer.

h20skier
"Date: Jul 1, 2009 - 11:19 AM EST
JefferyP
Thanks for all the quotes. I see Hal has ignored my citation of a credible scientist saying global warming is bull and he will ignore yours too. I bet there are a lot more quotes out there that scientist say GW is nonsense."

Come on If he is correct then that is what the journals and scientific method are for. I will be waiting to see their names on the Noble list

Tamyla
"Date: Jul 1, 2009 - 3:43 PM EST
how about the will of the people?
Independence is great but not when you are supposedly representing constituents and they are opposed. These folks aren't sent there to do what they choose, they are sent to do the will of the people they represent. "

and it would appear they are doing so

To Ramiro
Thanks for your superb reply to the wimpy article Gerson wrote.
I thought we should send the 8 Senator (RINO) a personalized body bag.

kentek
the States (at least for now)

Climate Change Ignorance
M. Gerson does not know what he is talking about on Climate Change. All the change we are seeing and have seen since recorded history is natural. C02 itself is such a tiny portion of the atmosphere with our C02 output a fraction of that. This correlation between C02 increase and global temp increase (over very long time periods) means nothing because the temp increases PRECEEDED the CO2 increases. See for yourself if you have the courage by reading the NIPCC (Non-governmental International Panel on Climate Change)report just out by heritage.org.

Michael Gerson the new zzar
when do you start your new position with the king of zzar's in what was called the white house!!!

doofuss is still delusional...

Obviously Obozo and Congress are NOT doing the will of the people.

"Support for the GOP rose two points over the past week, while support for Democrats dropped two points. This is only the fourth time the GOP has held a lead in over two years.

"The seesaw nature and closeness of these findings appear to reflect the public's generally low opinion of most members of Congress and their accomplishments. Just 18% of U.S. voters say Congress is doing a good or excellent job."


Hal
"What next? the earth is less than 10,000 years old????"

No, about 4.5 billion. So explain to us why in ice cores the CO2 goes up AFTER the temp rise, if CO2 causes temp changes, shouldn't C02 go up first?

If CO2 causes the earth to warm, why was the earth cooling from the 1930s until the 1970s when CO2 was increasing? Why did the earth warm during the MWP and then cool during the Little Ice Age? Why did the earth warm during the start of the Holocene 12,000 years ago? Why were there warm periods during the interglacials of the Pleistocene? Why did the earth warm rapridly during the Eocene...one of the greatest warmups in the history of the planet. I am unaware that Mesonyx was driving SUVs and cooking their food using electric power generated by fossil fuels 50 million years ago.

Why has Arizonia had the fewest 100+ days since 1913? Why when the earth wa warming did Mars and Pluto also get warmer? If global warming is real, why is the peak year for warming in the 1930s?

What is the optimum global mean temp? If you have no idea, then should you and Al Gore and Obama and the rest of these fools be f'ing with the planet thermostat and destroying the American economy along with it...should Chicago be under a mile of ice?

The Sentiment that brought us MTBE
Michael,

It is not that we do not care about the environment. It is that we do not favor destroying our economy to do something predicted even by its proponents to be almost totally ineffective to remedy a problem which may or may not even exist.



Akagi

"...Date: Jul 1, 2009 - 4:10 PM EST
Hal
"What next? the earth is less than 10,000 years old????"

No, about 4.5 billion. So explain to us why in ice cores the CO2 goes up AFTER the temp rise, if CO2 causes temp changes, shouldn't C02 go up first?...If CO2 causes the earth to warm, why was the earth cooling from the 1930s until the 1970s when CO2 was increasing? Why did the earth warm during the MWP and then cool during the Little Ice Age? Why did the earth ..."

LOL Not my lane. I am not the expert BUT if the scientific community is generally in agreement then I will rely on their judgment just like when they say the earth is about 4.5 billion years old. There is fame and fortune to prove them all wrong. Someone needs to actually do that. Right now most of what I see is bunk similar to creation science.

My energy concern is the national security issue of our reliance on foreign oil and money to support our habit. Here is one of the few areas where the failed Bush and I agreed - the US must break its energy addiction.

Rainforests
Much of the world's oxygen comes from the rain forest. You know how that works.

Trees take in CO2 and give us oxygen.

The rainforests are being destroyed by farmers and ranchers who cut down the trees for grazing their animals and planting their crops. Not good!

The United States cannot do anything about this. We cannot do anything about China or India either.

There are many facets to the issue of "Climate Change'. Yet Barry Dunham and the Chicken Little's in our Congress, locked in linear time, AND thinking, would try to have us believe that Capn'Trade would save the Earth. NONSENSE!

Yes the Earth is polluted. We need to do so many things to fix it. Cleaning up our vast oceans would be good. NO? We're still dumping raw sewage at sea, garbage too.This is just ONE problem.

Why is our Government ONLY focused on CO2?
Can you say Ka-ching?


So Hal
You believe the award winning Nobel Prize winner Al Gore and all of his scientific degrees and peer-reviewed papers but ignore Bob Carter with over 100 peer reviewed papers and William Gray, the hurricane predictor. Wow, that really makes sense.

Bork the Rep. traitors
Mary Bono Mack R-CA 202-235-5330
Mike Castle R-DE 202-255-4165
Mark Steven Kirk R-IL 202-255-4835
Leonard Lance R-NJ 202-255-5361/425 North Avenue East, Westfield, NJ 07890
Frank LoBiondo R-NJ 202-255-6572/5914 Main Street, Mays Landing, 08330
John McHugh R-NY 202-255-4611
David Reichert R-WA 202-225-7761
Chris Smith R-NJ 202-255-3765/1540 Kuser Rd, Hamilton, NJ 08619-3828

Find a tea party and take back the streets: teapartypatriots.org.

Common Sense
The author has not mentioned that the earth has been cooling for the last ten years. I need an explination as to how that can happen if he says we are in a global warming phase. I have read where the ice in Antarctica is growing hot shrinking. How can that be if it is getting warmer.
I just do not understand why the scientists that are saying man is not casusing climate change are totally dismissed.
People are trying to come up with alternative fuels and spending millions to do so but it is not as easy as Obama thinks. Just by wishing we can come up with an alternative to gas does not mean we can. Wind mills and solar are fine when the wind is blowing and ths sun is out but it will never help us get off oil.

doofuss claims:"My energy concern is the

national security issue of our reliance on foreign oil and money to support our habit. Here is one of the few areas where the failed Bush and I agreed - the US must break its energy addiction."

EXACTLY! So, why aren't we DRILLING, ON SHORE and OFF SHORE?????????



Hal
"LOL Not my lane. I am not the expert BUT if the scientific community is generally in agreement then I will rely on their judgment..."

The same ones that said 40 years ago about the coming ice age? And the scientific community isn't in general agreement and many that are aren't even climate scientists.

"My energy concern is the national security issue of our reliance on foreign oil and money to support our habit. Here is one of the few areas where the failed Bush and I agreed - the US must break its energy addiction."

Yes, how terrible to send money to those evil Canadians. God I hate them and their much better beer and what is it putting mayonnaise on everything????

Let me give you a newsflash. The Saudis, etc wouldn't lose a penny if the US stopped driving all its cars and went back to a 1861 economy. Why, because every drop of oil the US didn't use, China, India, Japan, you name it would instead. In 2008, the US used 1/2 million barrels of oil LESS a day than it did in 2007...$4 a gallon will do that but the world consumption stayed the same, why? China and India. The pipe dream (for the forseeable future) of energy independence is just that...an opium induced dream and Al Gore and Obama are the opium.

Tell me how much oil does Japan produce, they are really being held by the shorts aren't they? And Taiwan? Is China a net producer?

DG at 12:27
"There will be no wealth to distribute after Cap & Trade is enacted.

Perhaps, we will to go back to 1800 and start over"

Writer Paul Driessen has said the same thing -- and been wrong.

http://www.finepolitics.com/paul-coulter-driessen/

Wireless
Also back when I read Newsweek, George Will (their token conservative who ran every two weeks, the other week you had to suffer from the rantings of the mindless bimbo Anna Quindlen)had a column in which he pointed out it would be cheaper and more effective to simply mitigate the effects (if they happen at all). Since we have no idea what the optimum temps should be, no idea how to control them, or how fast we could do this or even if this is possible, mitigation (e.g. seawalls) makes more sense and will not lay waste to the economy.


I gave this one star
because I couldn't give it less...the scientific community is not unified on global warming as evidenced by the EPA hiding internal memos questioning its validity. This cap and trade bill is a joke on all Americans because it will have an effect on all of our pocketbooks. The eight Republicans who voted for this should be ashamed of their fiscal irresponsibility in the face of economic hardship for their constituents. This bill will not improve the lives of the people they represent. I doubt seriously whether any of these people really read this huge waste of paper anyway.

Not Bad
Congress is intent on regualtion and control maybe as part of cap and tax they should regulate the fizz (CO2) in soda.

What a moron
Gerson, you are a complete tool. The jury's still out on AGW.

Akagi 4:50PM
is exactly correct about mitigation.

If we continue to develop our economy more wealth will ensue. This will provide us with the resources to continue developing new technology that will enhance our energy efficiency as well as provide the means to be able to mitigate climate effects whatever they may be.

We have much, much, more to be concerned about from cooling than warming. We have been much warmer in the past and until the climate loons have worked so many, including the media, into a frenzy, climatologists and geologists always defined those warmer periods as Optimum.

The Renaissance occurred during one of these warm periods and is also called The Enlightenment.

We need to continue growing our economy and developing new resources that will enable us to meet whatever challenges come our way. Reverting back to a 19th century economy is certainly not the answer.

The satellite that crashed
on launch a couple of months ago was designed to study and record how CO2 cycles through the atmosphere.

The Warmists claim higher volumes and longer cycles times than any observation has provided. Their models use an annual growth rate of emissions of 1%. This is more than twice the .4% long-term average annual increase that has been observed. This also more than doubles the temperature increase that would be expected if their equation for CO2 sensitivity is correct (which it is not).

Scientists have been puzzled because their projected volumes of atmospheric CO2 are often double what is observed. They surmise that there is missing carbon sink that accounts for the missing CO2.

Studies have shown that just in the past couple of decades plant life on earth has increased by at least 6%. The US is also been described as being a net carbon sink, meaning we absorb more of our own CO2 than we produce. This fact is strangely been kept quiet in recent years.

The science is obviously not settled as more questions than answers still exist. It is a shame we lost the opportunity for understanding that would've come out of the lost satellite.

PV
"The US is also been described as being a net carbon sink, meaning we absorb more of our own CO2 than we produce"

That's only true of naturally emitted CO2. The national sink absorbs about a fourth of industrial CO2 emitted in the US. Not bad, but we're still pumping out a net amount of close to 5 billion tons of carbon dioxide per year.

Local Warning
Do any of you look at your electric bills? In ours on a separate page, they have the costs of different types of energy that make electricity. It is interesting to see that Coal is 3-cents per KWH, Wind is 15-cents per KWH, and Solar is 22-cents per KWH. Now that you have those figures you can figure out your bill using all coal, all wind, or all solar. Sample for those who flunked grade school math: 1000 KWH for Coal = $30, for Wind = $150, and for Solar = $220. Big difference. So now that you have those examples, we move on to "Cap and Trade." Coal is considered very very dirty so they will charge the coal generation plant a whole lot of money under the guise of carbon tax credits. This is to make it compatible with wind and solar. If you are living in an area where your electricity comes from coal, do not be surprised if your electric bill quadruples i.e. $30 to $120.

This is why I continue to say RECALL your Senators and/or Representatives. If you live in one of the 18 states that allow recall start the process NOW. We are out of time!

Other ideas: 1.call, send e-mails or letters to your Congressmen daily; 2.pick a group to watch i.e. The Tides Foundation or ACORN (splinter organizations (there are lots of these)) and publish on the internet.

Any more ideas, please let me know. (No guns please.)

Frey
"...but we're still pumping out a net amount of close to 5 billion tons of carbon dioxide per year."

Don't care, the US can double it for all I care and to help in this regard I heat my home mostly with firewood in the winter (wood burning stove) and drive a full-sized truck that gets at best 18 miles a gallon.

There used to be something called Carbon Belch Day...we should do that again. On that day you do as much as you can to put as much carbon into the air as possible--smoke a box of cigars, have a grill (cook red meat like beef), drive around in your most gas guzzling hog you can, make lots of trips and idle as much as possible, burn some brush, turn on all the lights in the house and run the A/C at full tilt until it almost begins to snow inside.

That's a start.




Enviromentalism
Is a cult. It truely is.

Man Made Climate Change is their End Times prophecy.

Plain and simple.

June 12
http://www.carbonbelchday.com/

This was 6/12/2008 I think, but still has some neat tools and suggestions to see how much you can belch into the air.

2012
Baradiel:

Isn't the world going to end on December 21, 2012 anyway? The Mayans and a host of others said so, so why bother?


Liberal propoganda
Gerson where do you get your stats and information from? Is it a publication put out by BHO perhaps. The US congress has been briefed on the fact that for the last 10 years the Earth has been cooling, not warming as you state from the liberal play book, cap and tax is not about reducing carbon but is about gaining power and wealth for the ruling party. Al Gore owns one of the businesses that you would have to buy carbon credits from, iwonder if this would have anything to do with his push for Cap and Tax ? Nah Al is out to help the country, right.

Americans are deprived of justice.
Over 31,400 Scientists say AGW is a hoax!
http://www.petitionproject.org/

Australia & Japan started this and even they have backed off!

Government by Bunko Scam has nothing to do with Environment.
The object of this hoax is power to micro-manage people's lives.
Cap & Trade is a massive tax on energy. (Gore's BTU Tax.)
YOU will pay MUCH more to drive your car, heat or cool your home and cook your food.
The cost of Manufacturing & transportation will skyrocket, thus sending many jobs overseas. (Maybe YOUR job!)
It will increase the cost of drilling & refining American oil, thus making us more dependent upon imported oil.
This will be accompanied by runaway inflation forcing retirees on fixed income and the working poor who live from paycheck to paycheck to accept the Government Dole the tax is intended to provide.
The intent is to create a permanent dependent class that can't be restored to their previous independent state because there is no way to roll back the inflation.
(A captive block of voters barely existing on Government Dole.)

These politicians are deliberately doing grievous harm to the American people as a political Scam disguised as an aid to the Environment.
Just voting them out of office will not restore the harm they have done by stealing people's independence and enslaving them to a Political Party.
These politicians should be stripped of Retirement & all assets and made to live under the conditions they have imposed upon others.
Same Government dole & same waiting list for health services.

Townhall not a place for liberal BiaS
In the interest of "fairness" are there also Judas's writing on behalf of right-wing positions over at Daily Komatose?

GTFO here with liberal lies (redundant term)

GTFO of here!
These half-o-crats disguised as conservatives are worse than the actual taxocrats. Almost.

Gullable Warming!
St. "O" and his Marxist handlers are not wanting to save the planet with this plan. It's all about Money and Power. After they get your money from $10.00+ gas and after you pay $5,000 to $10,000 per year to heat/cool your home, of which 90% will be hidden taxes, they will have the power to dictate what you can and cannot do on a daily basis. Al Gore and GE will make billions of dollars and sneer at the dumbmasses for being so stupid for letting this happen.Meanwhile everything we touch will double or triple in price because everything contains carbon in some form. Elections have consiquences and we are now starting to see them.

h20skier
"Date: Jul 1, 2009 - 4:23 PM EST
So Hal
You believe the award winning Nobel Prize winner Al Gore and all of his scientific degrees and peer-reviewed papers but ignore Bob Carter with over 100 peer reviewed papers and William Gray, the hurricane predictor. Wow, that really makes sense."

See here you go again. I said scientific community neither makes up that community

It is not admirable ...
Admirable? No, it is not admirable to go leaping to an expensive conclusion and expensive solution for a problem that probably doesn't exist and for which even if the problem does exist the large amount of money will be spent for a negligible effect. Oh, sorry, the effect on the climate will be negligible, the effect on our economy will be anything but negligible.

Akagi

"...Date: Jul 1, 2009 - 4:10 PM EST
Hal
"What next? the earth is less than 10,000 years old????"

No, about 4.5 billion. So explain to us why in ice cores the CO2 goes up AFTER the temp rise, if CO2 causes temp changes, shouldn't C02 go up first?...If CO2 causes the earth to warm, why was the earth cooling from the 1930s until the 1970s when CO2 was increasing? Why did the earth warm during the MWP and then cool during the Little Ice Age? Why did the earth ..."

LOL Not my lane. I am not the expert BUT if the scientific community is generally in agreement then I will rely on their judgment just like when they say the earth is about 4.5 billion years old. There is fame and fortune to prove them all wrong. Someone needs to actually do that. Right now most of what I see is bunk similar to creation science.

My energy concern is the national security issue of our reliance on foreign oil and money to support our habit. Here is one of the few areas where the failed Bush and I agreed - the US must break its energy addiction..."

Leave me give you a news flash. The US controls the price of oil. What happened when US gasoline hit $4 a gallon? Yup US consumption and the price of oil fell fast. I don't know if it is in the Georgia water but the same we cannot do it was coming from GA when JFK literally promised the moon. I am constantly amazed at how conservatives think little can be done about anything...

Hal
Bob Carter and William Gray not part of the scientific community? I guess they are part of the Tiddlywinks community?

Tree Hugging Hippie get out of my wallet
Fire up another doobie Gerson. That's why the GOP is in a shambles. No discipline. That bill was a stinker from the get go. It was a perfect issue for Republicans in the house to take a stand and define themselves. You are right about Pelosi she would have snapped enough Dems back in line to carry the vote. That's why they dominate the house right now. We need Newt back!

My electric bill is already outrageous. I can't afford another increase. You are writing that tree hugging check with my and every other middle class and poor taxpayers butt.

I'm all for conservation but not at the expense of paying my mortgage!

h20skier
"Date: Jul 1, 2009 - 10:45 PM EST
Hal
Bob Carter and William Gray not part of the scientific community? I guess they are part of the Tiddlywinks community?..."

I don't know about tiddlywinks but they are a very small part of the scientific community

Cap and Trade is another fraud
I liked the old point that economic factors would likely drive new innovations, but making people pay for carbon emissions in general would make American natural gas and coal just as economically challenged as Saudi, Russian and Venezuelan oil. An since the world economy is global, energy intensive industries would relocate to nations without carbon taxes, and take more American industrial capacity with them, as easily as they already have in the past.

And if there's little oil, natural gas or coal in these new places, guess where their oil tankers and pipelines will be getting their oil from.

However, if oil were simply taxed in accordance with its cost to society, oil from the Middle East taxed to pay for much of our military presence there, and taxed for combating terrorist activities that are funded by Middle eastern petro dollars, oil from Venezuela were taxed for the security needs incurred by Venezuelan posturing, and all oil taxed for the cancers and birth defects it causes, and nuclear power taxed to pay for safe disposal of waste and restoration of lands affected by the nuclear industry, for effects of radiation exposure,
the establishment of an emergency fund should we have a Chernoble type accident here, INSTEAD OF FREELY SUBSIDIZING ALL OF THESE INDUSTRIES AS WE ARE CURRENTLY DOING BY NOT IMPOSING THESE TAXES, BUT PAYING FOR THESE COSTS OURSELVES AND WITH OUR TAX DOLLARS, then economic forces and a free market economy will indeed lead to development of sustainable, renewable power sources, better energy storage methods, and more energy efficient technologies.

Oh I Get It!!!
Kathleen Parker is Michael Gerson in drag!!! It makes sense now.

Global warming is a hoax.
H.R. 2454 is nonsense and the 8 RINOs that voted for that garbage should be tarred and feathered for not sticking to free market principles.
Not your best work Mr. Gerson.

Cap & Trade and the Size of bills
Pleas read my blog about the size of bills being passed, espcially since on one reads them and then votes yes. There is a link on my blog to sign my petition limiting the size of bills.
http://microace.blogtownhall.com/
Thanks

PV, Reply # 145
Scientists have been puzzled because their projected volumes of atmospheric CO2 are often double what is observed. They surmise that there is missing carbon sink that accounts for the missing CO2.
------------------------------------------------------
If you are going to make claims like this, you really need to back it up with a reference. Atmospheric CO2 concentration has been rising at an almost constant rate since they started measuring it in 1958, so projected volumes haven't been far off.

http://scrippsco2.ucsd.edu/

Please, don't buy it!
Forrest Gump might say "I may not be smart, but I know gullible and stupid when I see it".

Global warming is an out and out hoax perpetuated precisely for the purpose of enacting this kind of oppressive, free market suicide pact. While mankind is capable of polluting the air we breath and our water, we are not capable of affecting the climate and destroying the planet.

Liberals have succeeded in blurring this distinction. Thus, they impose unwarranted guilt on an unsuspecting populace to try to push their agenda. That agenda includes controlling, if not obliterating the private sector. The agenda is all about expanding government at the expense of individual freedom and liberty.

Cap and Trade is onerous in every way and is a tool to destroy the American dream. We must not allow ourselves to be fooled by this insidiousness masked as "good intentions".

We just cannot afford to be that gullible, nor that stupid!


CamaninTx
Go read the discussions pertaining to the satellite that was going to study the CO2 cycle. It talks all about the missing CO2 and the hopes of scientists that the satellite would help to identify where it was going.

You guys are really funny. You always fall back into form demanding that others post links to information proving this or that.

How about you providing any empirical evidence that CO2 has had any major role in driving climate. You don't have anything, and yet the entire world is supposed to destroy their economies because CamaninTx has a faith-based science that says so.

And don't give me the crap about Arrhenius. We all know CO2, in a vacuum, has certain heat absorption capabilities. But the real atmosphere, which is not infinite as required by Arrhenius' study, also contains massive volumes of water vapor that overlap on the same absorption bands as CO2 and overwhelm its ability to trap heat. Also, you Warmers love to quote Arrhenius, but you fail to mention that even he later realized he had dramatically overstated climate sensitivity to CO2 and downscaled his projections. For some reason, that is always ignored.

Please show some empirical evidence supporting your nonsensical claims. Computer models are not data or evidence, only 'what ifs' based on the particular scenarios baked into them.

And please, do some investigation on your own and try some new sources. You might learn something new outside of the warmist paradigm.

to wes from IL, Reply #5
"Since there are "thousands" of scientists saying that Gore is a fraud, why don't you show us how smart you are by naming, say... 3 dozen names?"

Here are about 10% of the scientists from the Heartland Institute's website that don't buy AGW:

Akasofu, Syun-Ichi
Founding Director
International Arctic Research Center

Archibald, David
Scientist

Armstrong, J. Scott
Professor
Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania

Avery, Dennis
Senior Fellow
The Heartland Institute


Baliunas, Sallie
Astrophysicist and Senior Scientist
George C. Marshall Institute

Ball, Timothy
Environmental Consultant and Former Climatology Professor
University of Winnipeg


Balling, Robert
Professor of Climatology
Arizona State University


Bast, Joseph
President and CEO
The Heartland Institute

Beisner, E. Calvin
National Spokesman
Cornwall Alliance for the Stewardship of Creation

Bellamy, David
Botanist
The Conservation Foundation

Boehmer-Christiansen, Sonja
Reader in Geography
University of Hull

Boudreaux , Donald
Chairman, Department of Economics
George Mason University

Bourne, Alexandra (Sandy)
Senior Fellow
The Heartland Institute

Bradley, Robert
President
Institute for Energy Research

Briggs, William
Statistical Consultant
New York Methodist Hospital

Burnett, H. Sterling
Senior Fellow
National Center for Policy Analysis

Carter , Robert
Marine Geologist
James Cook University

Cerveny, Randall
Associate Professor of Geography
Arizona State University

Charles, John
President and CEO
Cascade Policy Institute

Chesser, Paul
Director
Climate Strategies Watch


Gerson on Cap & Trade
Man - I have read Townhall for years and never have gone beyond the editorial itself. Am I glad I did on this one. After reading Gerson I thought I had just lost my mind. I thought this site was for intelligent writers. Just reading 20-30 of your posts dropped my blood pressure 80 points! Thank you.

More scientists against AGW
http://www.petitionproject.org/signers_by_last_name.php

Over 30,000 signers, over 9000 PHDs

I'm stunned that Gerson is supporting ANY member of a legislative branch who concurs with a law that they have not read. I'm beyond bewilderment wondering why this is an admirable thing to do. EVEN if you AGREE with the global climate change opinion - why would you blindly sign your name to something that you've not read, nor could possibly understand, nor know if it will help or what it will do?

I consider 100% of the politicians who vote for this and other bills like it, to be traitors - guilty of treason. We need less government, a lot less government, in order to be free and prosperous. This bill is a knife in the back, and the bloody hand of the politicians who votes for it, I hope, will not be forgotten at the next election...

Global baloney, pt. 1
This is one of the most asinine columns to have ever appeared on TownHall. Kevin Gerson is letting his ignorance hang out. The cap and trade bill is probably the greatest threat to our freedom and prosperity in our nation's history, a masochistic obamanation of all pain for no gain. This lunatic concern with minute fluctuations in global temperatures is an irrational reflection of "presentism," an inordinate preoccupation with what is happening now rather than a reflection of a healthy historical perspective. Average world temperatures, to the extent that one can assemble them from a combination of direct measurable observation and paleoclimatological proxies, have fallen within a range of about three degrees C over the past 3,000 years. From that perspective, the earth is currently just below the average and only about 0.8 C higher than 1850, which is considered the end of the Little Ice Age.

Temperatures were warmer in the Medieval Warm Period 800-1300 A.D.) than they are today and, naturally, without the effects of increased CO2. Though that moron Al Gore, who has unfortunately injected politics into the debate, tries to minimize the MWP, he cannot explain away the historical evidence of Vikings who farmed a Greenland which, today, is under a thick layer of permafrost. Current temperatures are about 1 degree C below the MWP.

3 simple questions
For anyone who is for the cap and trade bill (or a carbon tax) or any such thing, I'd like the answer to 3 simple questions.

1. What is the optimal mean temperature for the earth? If you don't know, how do you know whether you want the earth to be warmer or colder.

2. What ability does the US have to influence the optimal global temperature of the earth? In answering this, you need not defend AGW as a theory. For the purposes of this question, I accept it as truth. Simply explain the relationship between US CO2 emissions and the resulting temperature over whatever time period you choose.

3. What is the return on investment of the US making any particular investment at this time? It is certainly the case that cap and trade or any other such approach will raise the cost of carbon-based fuels and therefore fuels in total. What is the return on this investment?

Gerson's argument appears to be that he doesn't know the answers to any of the above but he still wants to make the investment. That's an argument I just simply cannot understand.

Independent Judgment???
Are you serious? Is this like the same Independent Judgment that President Obama had on his resume about Iraq for President of the U.S. I hate to be the one to tell you, but man can not control the temperture of the earth. Man can't even control the temperature in his house. Republicans who believe in Al Gore Global Warming or Climate Change are not Independent, they are Loosers, just ask Mr. Carlin before you write your next article. When the Republicans loose in 2010 and 2012, I think it will dawn on them that the bricks falling on them are really bricks. Republicans will see that Liberals and Progressives are the same People who are destroying Liberty, Happiness, and Freedom in America. "Happy Independence Day".

PV, Reply # 169
"Go read the discussions pertaining to the satellite that was going to study the CO2 cycle. It talks all about the missing CO2 and the hopes of scientists that the satellite would help to identify where it was going."
------------------------------------------------------
You need to work on your comprehension skills before you criticize others. While the satellite in question was to study where half of the carbon dioxide humans produce every year goes, that doesn't mean that climate models were not taking this into account in their projections of future atmospheric CO2 levels. In fact, atmospheric CO2 levels today are above most of the initial IPCC projections made just 10 years ago.

http://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/2007/2007_Rahmstorf_etal.pdf
======================================================
"How about you providing any empirical evidence that CO2 has had any major role in driving climate."
------------------------------------------------------
Empirical evidence of CO2's ability to drive climate change is out there if you just know where to look. For starters, you can try reading Annan & Hargreaves 2006.

http://www.jamstec.go.jp/frcgc/research/d5/jdannan/GRL_sens itivity.pdf

Cap & Trade
If this is such an emergent and dire issue why does the current political power have the time and inclination to include politics and all of its corrupting influences within the proposed legislation? One proposal, permanently removing the franchise of those who directly benefit from the adopted policy will clearly define what the legislation's intent is. It is the wholesale buying of votes by our politicians that is the "root cause" of our governments self created fiscal disasters. Let's cap Congress' term and salaries and Trade Obama!

Steve, Reply # 174
3 simple questions
For anyone who is for the cap and trade bill (or a carbon tax) or any such thing, I'd like the answer to 3 simple questions.

1. What is the optimal mean temperature for the earth? If you don't know, how do you know whether you want the earth to be warmer or colder.
-----------------------------------------------
Since Earth's mean temperature has been between 56 and 58 degrees Fahrenheit for the duration of human history, would you accept that this is the optimal temperature for human civilization?

Steve, Reply # 174
3 simple questions
For anyone who is for the cap and trade bill (or a carbon tax) or any such thing, I'd like the answer to 3 simple questions.

2. What ability does the US have to influence the optimal global temperature of the earth? In answering this, you need not defend AGW as a theory. For the purposes of this question, I accept it as truth. Simply explain the relationship between US CO2 emissions and the resulting temperature over whatever time period you choose.
-----------------------------------------------
Since the greenhouse effect raises Earth's mean temperature by 57 degrees F, and CO2 is responsible for about 12% of that increase, the 35% increase in atmospheric CO2 caused by human activities over the last 100 years would account for about 2 degrees of Earth's current mean temperature. With the US alone responsible for 30% of human CO2 emissions, our ability to influence Earth's mean temperature is sufficient.

Steve, Reply # 174
3 simple questions
For anyone who is for the cap and trade bill (or a carbon tax) or any such thing, I'd like the answer to 3 simple questions.

3. What is the return on investment of the US making any particular investment at this time? It is certainly the case that cap and trade or any other such approach will raise the cost of carbon-based fuels and therefore fuels in total. What is the return on this investment?
-----------------------------------------------
The answer to that depends on what value you place on human society as we currently know it.

Yea right

Do you really think the idiots in the District of Corruption are trying to fix the weather? You are loonier than they are if you do!

Cap-and-Tax
Gerson, you are deluded. Cap-and-trade will destroy the American economy, give China and India a free pass, and do NOTHING but enrich an oligarchy of power mongers, including Al Gore, Goldman Sachs and General Electric. This is all about power and if you think otherwise, all I can say is, you need to dig deeper in assessment of those who profess to "do good."

By the way, it will also hurt ALL Americans by driving up utility rates. Wake up or be a slave.
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