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Thursday, October 16, 2008
Larry Elder :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Case Against Barack Obama, Part 1
by Larry Elder
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Democratic presidential contender Barack Obama promises to "cut taxes for 95 percent of American workers." That's not possible.

Why? More than 30 percent pay nothing in federal income taxes. Obama comes up with this number by calling tax credits "tax cuts." One can debate whether these things are good or bad, but they are not tax cuts. McCain offers refundable tax credits for health care, as well as other credits, but he doesn't insult the intelligence of the American people by calling them "tax cuts." When Obama's credits go to people who pay no federal income taxes or who pay less than the value of the credit, they are not "tax cuts." They are transfers of money from one pocket to another, or redistributions of wealth, but they are not tax cuts.

Republican candidate John McCain should tell people in real, human terms how hiking taxes on the so-called rich affects us all. My friend Nina is a self-employed interior decorator. She just met a prospective married client, whose husband works in the entertainment industry. The client may pull the job because of Obama's impending tax cuts. Nina makes well under $250,000, lives in an apartment, has no maid, and drives a midsize non-luxury car.

But the couple she hopes to get the job from face a tax rate of 39.5 percent plus increased Social Security taxes, on top of higher taxes for capital gains and dividends.

In promoting his tax cuts, President Kennedy said, "The soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the (tax) rates now." When Kennedy says it, it's Camelot. When Reagan says it, it's trickledown. By the way, Kennedy cut taxes by 22 percent (reducing the top marginal rate from 90 percent to 70 percent), and Reagan by 60 percent (top marginal rate from 70 percent to 28 percent). The "unfair, pro-rich" Bush tax cuts that are set to expire? A reduction in the top marginal rate of approximately 7.5 percent. A recent headline in Agence France-Presse says it all: "Sweden Announces Income Tax Cuts to Boost Jobs."

On spending, Obama now says -- as with taxes -- he may defer some of it because of a poor economy. But didn't he consider the spending "investments" that are "fully paid for"? If they are investments that "don't cost" anything, why put them off because of a bad economy? If Obama's been telling the truth, the ideal time to spend and to raise taxes is precisely when things are bad, unless they a) are not paid for and b) are not investments that will "jump-start our economy."

McCain mistakenly put off-limits going after Obama for his 20-year relationship with his former pastor, Jeremiah Wright. But Obama's relationship with his "spiritual adviser" serves as a window into Obama's character. During the primary season, Obama even called this a "legitimate" issue, but insisted he knew nothing about many of Wright's radical views. Really?

In "Dreams from My Father," Obama talks of attending the "Audacity of Hope Sermon" (pages 292-293). There is an audio book in Obama's own voice reading this passage. Obama hears Wright speak of Hiroshima and Sharpeville as examples of acts of injustice. A personal aside: My dad, a former Marine, served as a cook in a segregated unit and was stationed on the island of Guam in anticipation of the invasion of Japan. The invasion never occurred because of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which military historians believe saved at least 1 million lives.

What is Sharpeville? In 1960, the South African apartheid government shot down unarmed protestors, killing 69 black men, women and children. Most of the dead were shot in the back, and nearly 200 more were wounded.

Obama felt no sense of outrage to hear Hiroshima and Sharpeville mentioned in the same breath. Indeed, he was so inspired by the sermon that he uses the sermon's title -- "Audacity of Hope" -- for his second book, and as the theme of his campaign!

In "Dreams," Obama tells of how he met Wright. Obama made an appointment at Wright's church to meet the pastor. Wright was late. While waiting, Obama spoke with Wright's assistant, a single mom whose husband had just died. She told Obama that she intended to leave Chicago and move to the suburbs to escape the violence. She also wanted her son to attend a better school. Her son, she said, wanted to join a band, and his school didn't have one. His future school had a band and free uniforms (pages 280-284). "'He's always wanted to be in a band,' she said softly" (page 281). When Obama told Wright of his assistant's plans, Wright said he tried to talk her out of it. Why? Wright argued that the boy "won't have a clue about where, or who, he is"?! Obama joined the church.

Next week, more about Obama, including Bill Ayers, Iraq, ACORN and the financial crisis.

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About The Author
Larry Elder is a syndicated radio talk show host and best-selling author. His latest book, "What's Race Got to Do with It?" is available now.
 
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Interesting
I have noted before the odd habit of being offended by Obama's claim that he will cut taxes for 95% of Americans while ignoring McCain's claim that he will cut taxes for 100% of Americans. Elder has gone a different route, he has denied that McCain would say what he has said repeatedly.

But I do think Elder is onto something in making the case be that we should keep tax rates tilted towards the rich because this not only benefits the rich, it benefits the people who do their business with the rich. Obviously they are more important than the much larger percentage of people who do their business with the middle class. But then Elder gets his money from rich people, so he presumably can attest to the importance of such people.

Certainly if Obama wants Elders vote he should try to explain to people how the rich are more important than the middle class.

You have tried valiantly, Larry, to
shill for your candidate.

But McCain has lost this election. He lost fair and square. There was no "conspiracy" that you disgruntled conservatives always seem to scout for when the american people reject your vision.

John McCain goes out looking petty and negative. Obama has risen above the muck of McCain's sometimes slimy, mostly erratic campaign, to appear steady and calm and in control, an anchor, a reasoned, reasonable man.

I think Sarah Palin was soundly rejected by the more thoughtful conservatives out there. She's been hoisted on her own petard. It was a very interesting campaign, all said.

Interesting
Not offended, take issue with. Taking issue with the fact that you can not "cut" a tax which does not exist. If a person pays nothing, you can not cut his tax. As such, taxes are "tilted" towards the rich because that's who pays the taxes.

You may be "doing business with the middle class" but the middle class does business for the rich. Nobody gets paid 50g by someone who doesn't do at least 500g in business.

"More important" is a loaded term, but certainly the rich hire the middle class and if you want to create jobs, you don't take away the capital to do it. See Europe's unemployment.

CNN, Fox and MSNBC
all had independent-voter "focus" groups.

All three focus groups (including the Frank Luntz group on Fox) disliked any mention of Ayers. Every single one of them considered him a petty issue, a distraction from the problems facing the country, "not focusing on the Big Picture", as some participant put it. All these people didn't like political partisanship (the kind of issues that go over big on Townhall and Kos).

Oh. And two of the focus groups gave the Joe the Plumber questions a big thumbs down (the third group wasn't asked). One woman rolled her eyes.

Obama is an anchor
and he will drown us all as he pulls the U.S. to the bottom. As far as losing the election fair and square that is if you count each Acorn-Democratic voter 2, 3, 4, or even a dozen times.

Lon: What's the problem?
What's the problem with a Democrat claiming to cut income taxes for 95% of the population? Beware of Democrats proclaiming tax cuts (Clinton). My condolences to Democrats proclaiming tax increases (Dukakis). Barak "Free Lunch" Obama is doing both.

Do YOU believe that if implemented, Obama's tax increases will stop at 5%, as promised?

Obama's entire proposition is unbelievable and preposterous.

This is much different from a tax cut plan that reduces rates across the board (100%).

Do you seriously believe that hurting business will not hurt employees and consumers? Or do you believe that its only fair, and whatever happens, happens regardless of the results?

I want to get the government out of EVERYONE'S business.

Tax cut or vote buying?
If Robert Mugabe promised a check to 30~40% of the electorate for giving him their votes, we'd called it vote buying, but when the candidate is the media darling and the "one", then it is just a tax cut for the "middle" class.

OBAMA & AYERS TIES (& Lies) EXPOSED!
10 Obama - Ayers Connections all spelled out with great clarity:

http://www.redstate.com/diaries/newmilleniummilitia/2008/oc t/15/barack-obamas-ties-and-lies/

Read all about their close association and relationship and connect the dots for yourself. They weren't just associates, they share the same worldview, the same ideas and the same agenda. Please share that link with as many people as you can.

Obama candidacy promoted Muslim Kenya

Part 1 of 2

Thank you, Mr. Elder, for your concise writing about Barack Obama’s shady associations.

The major media has suppressed the connection between Barack Obama and his said Kenyan cousin who intends to make Kenya a Muslim nation. It was Barack Obama’s presidential candidacy that encouraged America to give money to Kenya in the recent chaos following its December presidential election of incumbent President Mwai Kibaki vs Muslim Raila Odinga. Obama requested Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice’s help in the matter.

I believe in the years ahead if Kenya becomes a Muslim nation, we’ll have Barack Obama’s influence in the 2007 Kenya presidential election matter to blame for that. If Obama hadn’t been running for president, it’s doubtful that America would have intervened so strongly in the matter, allowing Odinga to share power as Kenya’s prime minister.

Obama’s first cousin Raila Odinga is a self-declared Muslim and a Luo. He claims to be the son of Barack Obama’s father’s sister. Obama met with Odinga during a 2006 African trip and appeared in a photo supporting him during some rallies for Odinga despite Obama’s US government funding for the trip.

However, Raila Odinga has a signed Memorandum of Understanding with a Muslim group to turn Kenya into an Islamic nation if he won Kenya’s presidential election. The MOU calls for shari’a courts, Islamic education in primary schools, no Christian public religious meetings, creation of a Muslim province. After the Kenya presidential election several months ago, it was Muslim Odinga’s disgruntled supporters, Luo tribal members, who generated the murderous mob violence rampaging Kenya hacking people to death with machetes and burning down a church in Eldoret with Christians inside.

The MOU for an Islamic Kenya with Sheik Abdullahi Abdi is no longer posted on the Internet but I’m sure it has been saved by those interested.

--Part 2 of 2 continued in next post--


Obama candidacy promoted Muslim Kenya

----Part 2 of 2 continued--

I'm glad I was able to go on a photographic safari of Kenya long ago before the increase in strident Islamists in Kenya.

Four years ago Kenya’s Christian ministers had to bring a lawsuit when they discovered Muslims had surreptitiously inserted shari’a law for Islamic courts into Kenya’s draft secular constitution.

Now that Odinga has been declared Kenya’s prime minister in the recent power-sharing agreement with President Kibaki, one wonders what direction Kenya will take regarding Odinga’s Islamic intention. There will undoubtedly be further difficulty ahead for Kenya, a nation 80% Christian and 10% Muslim.

Newsweek has written erroneously that Raila Odinga is a Christian. Other sources call him an Anglican. It is clear to anyone reading the linked MOU that Odinga states he is a Muslim. Some questioned the veracity of the MOU but it has been confirmed it is a legal document signed by Odinga himself. Regardless of what Odinga once may have been, I believe he’s a Muslim, as are so many other Luos and those of Obama’s family in Africa. Ex-Muslim writer Aayan Hirsi Ali refers to Luos as such too.

Both Odinga and Obama, as Luos, have issues stemming from their strong desire to continue the legacy of their fathers. This matter has been strongly suppressed by the media regarding Kenya and Obama. He was far more involved with these issues than the press has indicated.

Now Jerome Corsi of World Net Daily has just returned from a trip ordeal in Kenya and reports that Barack Obama gave Raila Odinga $1 million for his campaign.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId= 78035

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78132

Can Obama Put a Chicken In Every Pot
Can we as a nation believe that Obama is going to give every American the same health care that he has. What A red face lie!

That kind of healthcare would bankrupt the government overnight regardless of how much he taxes the wealthy.

He exspects us to believe that he has already negotiated this great deal with the insurance companies.

Tax Cuts for dummys (pt1)
I did not write this. I wish I had. The source is T. Davies, Professor of Accounting at the University Of South Dakota School Of Business, who got it from a student. So, the real author remains unknown. Here’s the article:

“Let’s put [income] tax cuts in terms everyone can understand. Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

“The first four men—the poorest—would pay nothing; the fifth would pay $1, the sixth would pay $3, the seventh $7, the eighth $12, the ninth $18 and the tenth man—the richest—would pay $59. That’s what they decided to do. The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day the owner threw them a curve (in tax language, a tax cut).

‘Since you are all such good customers,’ he said, ‘I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20.’ So now dinner for the ten only cost $80. “The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes, so the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But what about the other six—the paying customers? How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share?’ The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. If they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would end up being paid to eat their meals.

“So the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. The fifth man now paid nothing, the sixth paid $2, the seventh paid $5, the eight paid $9, the ninth paid $12, leaving the tenth man with a bill of $52 instead of his earlier $59. Each of the six was better off than before, and the first four continued to eat for free."

Tax Cuts for dummys (pt2)
“However, once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. ‘I only got a dollar out of the $20!’ declared the sixth man, pointing to the tenth. ‘But he got $7!’

‘Yeah, that’s right!’ exclaimed the fifth man. ‘I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got seven times more than me!’ ‘That’s true!’ shouted the seventh man, ‘Why should he get $7 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!’ ‘Wait a minute,’ yelled the first four men in unison. ‘We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!’

“The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night he didn’t show up for dinner (or, in the real world, he took his business out of the country), so the nine sat down and ate without him. When it came time to pay the bill, they discovered, a little late, what was very important. They were $52 short of paying the bill. Imagine that!

“…And that, boys and girls, journalists and college instructors, is how the tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much or attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table anymore. Where would that leave the rest? Unfortunately, most taxing authorities anywhere cannot seem to grasp this rather straightforward logic!” The end!


Larry, I miss you
It has now been years since I lived in LA and listened to you on KABC radio on my way home from work.

Regardless of the socialist Larry Elder hater's comments, you really are still 'The Sage' and I appreciate you views because they are always filled with common sense (which does not seem so common anymore).

Good job, Larry.

Sidney
What's the white "cause"? Furthmore, what in God's name is wrong with wanting to make inroads into the already destroyed (by liberalism) black communities? I do this for a living! Have you not noticed the deterioration in the black community is directly related to the growth of great society ideology? Freedom from victimhood, venality, and dependence is not a white thing- its the American thing.

Care to join us?

Lon
Who are "the rich"? Who constitute 'the middle class"? I have only even known middle income people- I myself am a lower middle income person ($52,000.000)- and Obama's plan definitely hurts me and those in my social circle.

I have the healthcare O promises:
Medicare.

I hadn't been to a dr. in a year, but I went to my family MD for an annual checkup last month and had a full panel of blood work and the usual exam.

This checkup has never been at any specific time, but usually in the late summer. Evidently, last year I went 10 days later, say September 25 instead of this year, when I went September 15--I don't remember the exact numbers.

Medicare's *take* is I had my *annual* blood work TOO SOON--it had not been a full year yet, so it was an unnecessary duplicate of work I had already had, ALTHOUGH IT THE LAST EXAM WAS 355 DAYS BEFORE. My dr. and I are protesting.

Welcome to Obama health nationally for everyone.

And if the nation elects a filibuster-proof Cong. with the Great O, you'll also see again acts like

Freddie Mac--FDR, 1938
Fannie Mae--Johnson, 1968
Comm. RA--Carter, 1977, Carter
Comm RA. Redux--1992, 95, 99, Clinton

People who are somehow convinced the Dems. can fix anything except create more problems are delusional. All the above are still in place and functioning even as the market tailspins and banks are desperate for capital, while DEMOCRATIC LAW IS STILL TAKING AWAY FROM THEM.

oldsocialworker
I see you are up early. Good morning. Its always instructive to read your posts, being as you are in the trenches as it were. Your information is informative to most of us. It is wasted on the trolls, but most information is. I have never seen one change their mind and almost never even admit any conservative might be telling the truth. Fortunately, TH trolls are not representitive of most of the well-meang decentg people who vote Dem. Its a pity these useful idiots are so dangerous, but at least there is hope they can learn.

Thank you, Larry-
Another great article- This candidate seems to ready to sell us down the Socialism road and escape criticism of media who will not cover these facts- I just wish McCain could do this more effectively...

Sidney
I feel sorry for you. You need to educate youself as to what is going on.

Mr. Elder has chosen to educate himself as to what is good for America. Is that wrong?

Every H Obama supporter iv'e talked to have no concept of any issues/problems that face this country. They cannot or choose not to get informed.

Obama's color is not a reason to vote for him.
Beef up your knowledge on socialism & its death threat to America or any other nation.

I believe you can do it!!

My Bro Sidney
I guess you have to be miserable and in poverty to be accepted in your community - or you believe that Larry should have given his money to everyone in your community so that y'all could benefit from his labor. Apparently, you didn't get the memo about the blessings of individual freedom. You sound like someone who invites themself to a party, eats all the food, drinks all the drinks and then complains about the catering service. If your only contribution to society is criticism then you're not really participating. Yours is a Marxist mindset. Your being played by people who don't have your best interest at heart.

Sidney, are you for real?
If you really are Larry's brother, why would you buy into the perpetual victimhood of black people, or any people for that matter? You seem to offer all of the old excuses for failure, which is the most gutless attitude to have. I guess it will always be somebody else's (whites) fault, won't it? Just about every motivational speaker will tell you that 'Attitude is everything'. Perhaps maturity will accompany your advancing years...

Joe "the plumber" Wurzelbacher chimes in
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdLPWfTczM4

"Obama's Proposal Scares Me Because It's Just One More Step Towards Socialism"

...sorta says it all, don't it...?!!?

Obama's plan will...
not save the poor, will break the backs and the will of the folks in the middle and will drive those that have enough wealth to stay in business or start new ones to either quit and close their doors or leave America and go to a more friendly business for profit environment.

Obama wants the top 5% to pay for his new spending, estimated to cost upwards of $1Trillion. I don't think there are enough rich folks for that and even if there are they are going to everything they can to protect what they have earned.

Anyone who is enjoying Bush's 10% tax bracket can kiss it goodbye.

Joe the Plumber will be SOL if Obama is elected.

It is always interesting and informative
to hear ignorant fools like LeRoi post and denigrate their more prosporus and obviously more intelligent bretheren.

The blacks who have succeeded have embraced the same American culture that all other groups have, yet the cry-babies cannot see that they are kept poor and ignorant by the race pimps like wright, jackson etal and the democrat party. The dems need to keep them stupid in order to stay in power. The LeRois of the world rail against republicans and whites in general and produce nothing but more of their ilk and wonder why many whites don't respect them.

To be respected as a man, you take care of your family, work and contribute to society, you learn that from your father, if he didn't do it,you won't either and you only produce another generation of losers.
The dems love folks like you, bambi loves you too because you buy his snake oil.

Addressing silly notions
It is valid to argue that neither candidate's tax plans add up (though Obama's is farther from reality by several orders of magnitude).

That said there have been some truly absurd characterizations that should be highlighted:

The notion that tax rates are "tilted towards the rich" is so blatantly at odds with reality as to be either clueless or dishonest. The taxes in this country are overwhelmingly paid by the "rich" even when ALL taxes (payroll, consumption, property, etc.) are included.

The notion that higher tax rates on the "rich" yield ANY economic benefit has long been discredited as economic drivel. The "rich" do not merely emply people such as the one mentioned by Mr. Elder for consumtive activities. Of much more consequence are the investment activities of these individuals that create far MORE jobs. Givernment is incapable of spending money in such a way that it can create more jobs than are destroyed by removing the funds from these productive activities.

The end result of such economic classism that is the "soak the rich" mentality is that it demonstrably harms not just the "rich" but the middle class and the poor as well. Alas, those who are so eager to point out how much better off the "rich" are doing apparently can't be bothered to investigate basic economic principles that refute their arguments.

Case against BO!!!
Mr. Elder is correct in this article. After watching the so called debates it is very obvious to me that Obama is a very articulate gas bag that has no intention of living up to his campaign promises as his Marxist handlers would not allow it as they have their own REAL agenda to cram down the American peoples throat.
Think before you jump on the Obama 09 band wagon as it is headed in a direction of no return for our beloved country.

Senator Obama and Raila Odinga
How come the MSM is ignoring Obama's ties to Raila Odinga, the Kenyan thug prime minister? This story is huge, and provides a window into the character of Obama.

Why is the MSM ignoring Obama's huge fundraising ($950,000) for Odinga, (as well as that of Qaddafi's son?)

Why is the MSM ignoring Michelle Obama's call to African Press International?
"When API asked Mrs. Obama to comment on why Dr. Corsi was arrested by the Kenyan government and whether she thought Kenya's prime minister, Mr. Raila Odinga, was involved in Dr. Corsi's arrest, she got irritated and simply told API not to dig [into] that which will support evil people who are out to stop her husband from getting the presidency," the publication reported.
(WorldNetDaily 10/14/08 reporting from African Press International)

"Mrs. Obama asked API to write a good story about her husband and that will earn API an invitation to the inauguration ceremony when, as she put it, her husband will be installed as the next President of the United States of America next year," the report said. (WND 10/14/08)

Michelle Obama had one other point to make – regarding the endorsement of her husband by Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan, which she deemed "unfortunate." (WND 10/14/08)

She reportedly told AFI that it was unfortunate that the highly controversial Farrakhan made his support known before the election. (WND 10/14/08)

WHY IS HIS NOT ON THE DRUDGE REPORT AND ALL OVER THE MEDIA?


Obama, part one
Mr. Larry Elder;
Thank you for your continued effot to bring forth the truth about one of the biggest schams in the US history.
It is Journalist such as your self that keep me coming back to this publication.

Complaint FIled Re Obama's Home Loan
Judicial Watch has launched a complaint with the U.S. Senate Ethics Committee and Federal Election Committee against Barack Obama who allegedly "received a home loan of $1.32 million at a rate of 5.625% although the average going rate on that day according to 2 different surveys was between 5.93 & 6%. Unlike, what was reportedly available to the home consumers, a special below market 'super jumbo' loan was secured without a origination fee or discount points from Northern Trust resulting in a 'illicit gift which adds a value of almost $125,000 in interest savings. It appears that that due to his position as a U.S. Senator, he received improper special treatment (questions about his mortgage were first raised by the Washington Post." So, if you think he gives a hoot about the middle class people while he's allegedly committing unethical acts at taxpayers expense for his own personal gain then think again. CHANGE - it will be change for the country as the wealth appears to be distributed to himself and his anti-American friends, such as Ayres who he helped fund through one of his "community" groups under investigation.

Why the rich are important
They have capital, the money it takes to start new ventures, which create jobs for the middle class. And, I never got a job from a poor man. That's why, in a capitalist system, the rich are so important. The middle class is important because they have a stake in the system and therefore contribute to the stability of our government. Every country without a strong middle class had spiraled into revolution and anarchy. By telling the middle and underclass that they can't make it in America without the help of the government which is taking money from the rich is the same kind of rhetoric and income distribution that the Marxists engaged in in Soviet Russia in October 1917. The rich fled the country or had their businesses and goods confiscated. Soon there was no one to steal from. The citizens who worked in the factories had poor craftsmanship and poor productivity because they couldn't be fired, and they spent all of their off time becoming drunks. The Soviets had a tremendous problem with wide spread alcholism, which I think is a symbol of national malaise and hopelessness. At one point the Soviets even had to redesign the hydraulic system on one of their fighter bombers because the mechanics were draining and drinking the hydraulic fluid. But Obama's talk about "spreading the wealth around" appealed to the poor people in the Soviet Union until they realized that there was no more wealth belonging to other people, and they had no wealth and no chance of getting any unless they joined the Party, the Communist Party, and participated in the graft that the Party members were privy to. This is not a good model for our country, but the mole Marxists in every walk of our country have been working towards this for years. They are about to hit the jackpot with Obama. Voters, beware.

Here's my plan if BHO is elected

I've got over a million bucks in the account in cash, stocks, bonds, gold and silver. My house and cars are paid for. I'm 73. My interest income is 100 grand plus. I guess I'm considered rich, but I don't live like it and I'm not bragging about it.

Rather than pay taxes into a program that redistributes the wealth based on "economic justice", I'm going to liquidate everything that produces income and live off the principal. That's 50 g's per year for twenty plus years...more than I need and longer than I will last. Also I will leave no estate for him to confiscate.

My only declarable income will be my Social Security. At that point I will become a recipient of BHO's "refundable tax credit".

Multiply me by how many there are like me and see how taxing the rich to give to the poor produces higher tax revenue. We all just become poorer.



Trickle Down Economics Always Works
Trickle down economics always works because it's part of the free market. The question is, "What do you want to have trickling down?" If you lower taxes, benefits trickles down. If you raise taxes, misery trickles down. Obama's program of increased capital gains taxes and increased taxes on businesses and corporations will cause misery to trickle down in the form of reduced wages and benefits, lost jobs and a decrease in economic activity. One of the worst things to tax is capital because it is the engine of economic activity. By taxing it you dampen investment, restrict capital formation and remove a portion of it from the economy with every tax. Windfall profits taxes trickle down misery in another way. A special new tax on oil companies directly removes capital assets from companies in which pensions, 401K's and IRA's are invested. Seniors on fixed income are slammed and stolen from by liberal windfall taxes.

Obama's "trickle up theory of economics" is just naive nonsense.

We wouldn't be in this
mess if people across this country would stop electing democrats. We on this board understand that, which is why most of us have been successful.

Dems cater to the lazy and the stupid, they listen to guys like Biden who has spent 36 years warming a seat in the Senate. Can anyone explain how he can afford a nearly 4 million dollar compound on a Senators salary?

Nice work if you can get it..fly around on the taxpayers dime visiting countries to gain "foreign policy experience"...BS, that's a free vacation folks.

The framers could do the people's work in a few weeks and go back to a real job, it's time to get back to basics...a "career" in politics is a disgraceful way to make a living, throw these lazy liars the hell out and start over in NOv.

creating wealth
I once met a guy who worked with Vietnamese immigrants to help them get settled here. We talked about how they were able to become successful within ten years, many owning their own businesses. Even without speaking English when they arrived, they succeeded. I asked how they were able to do this. He pondered that for a while. Then he told me that the Vietnamese tended to live very frugally, and put their surplus into starting businesses. In addition they tended to band together as a group, and successful businesses loaned money to start new businesses. The success of immigrants is noteworthy in comparison to natural born citizens who never rise out of poverty.
Most wealthy in the US are self made. Cindy McCain's parents had to sell their family car to start their business. No matter where you are on the economic ladder, if you save some money and reinvest it in something that will either help you save more, or will help you earn more, you will rise economically. That's how wealth is created.
Generally speaking, the poor stay poor because whatever little money they have left over is spent on something that will provide short-term gratification, instead of invested. Even a surplus $5 can be spent on a used sewing machine, versus $5 of soda. So if you take money from someone with an investor/wealth mentality and give it to someone with a non-investor/poor mentality the poor generally will not use that money to create wealth. That's why they stay poor, and why socialism fails.
BTW, there are many middle-class people with a poor mentality... they spend everything they have, and save and invest little.

Puzzles
Puzzles are funny things. Just a box full of intricately cut pieces. Pretend the picture is not on the box. Pour them out and they make no sense at all. As they are joined together,the picture becomes clear.

Thus is the life and times of Barack Hussein Obama. Some of the pieces of his life have become clear,still others have not been joined together. Each time a new truth of the man is uncovered,another piece of the puzzle fits.

The pundits say he is sure to be elected. I hope the puzzle which is his life,is completed before November . We all need to know if the final picture depicts a calming scene or a dark scene from he!l itself.

"What John McCain should do ...
... to convince us to vote against Obama." Add Larry's name to the list of members of the media advising the McCain campaign.

If John McCain can't convince the public why they should vote against Obama, he loses the election under our system. Damn few conservatives will vote FOR McCain so he must convince them to vote AGAINST Obama.

So far, Mac is learning that gentlemen finish 2nd in Presidential politics. A last minute "straight talk" TV special might turn the tide, but more of last night will make McCain a sure runner-up.


Obama's Tax Plan
Plumber: Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn’t it?

Obama: It’s not that I want to punish your success, I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they’ve got the chance at success too … I think when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody.

Obama seems to have told The Plumber he would raise taxes, distribute wealth (which is socialism) and Tax small Businesses.... That is how I read it!

http://www.youtube.com/v/wNuqV7N_bj0&hl=en&fs=1"


Moderates CARE about B.O and New Party!
The socialist agenda is actually so well documented YET SO unreported. At this point it is up to US to share the facts! It has now been proven that Barack Obama was a member of the DSA's New Party (which he denied). Click or copy to your browswer:
http://web.archive.org/web/20010306031216/www.newparty.org/ up9610.html
Search Google's history archives yourself:
http://www.google.com/search2001.html
http://wellspringposts.blogspot.com

We need to reach moderate and independent voters NOW and intelligently and respectfully edify them of the facts that will and do matter to fiscal minded voters. PLEASE join me in this effort now as time is of the essence. See this post http://wellspringposts.blogspot.com that addresses the facts that moderates need to know and email the post to your friends and family and ask them to share truth with others FAST. We have turned votes with this already!



Will's Thoughts on Sarah
Will of CA says: "I think Sarah Palin was soundly rejected by the more thoughtful conservatives out there. She's been hoisted on her own petard."
Really?
Not here in slack-jaw, jerk-water PA.
But then, maybe we're not the "more thoughtful" types, like those in your fine state.
Steve

TRUTHMEISTER
Great Post.

Here is some additional info:

"The democratic socialist vision does not rest upon one sole tradition; it draws upon Marxism, religious and ethical socialism, feminism, and other theories that critique human domination." - from the parent Democratic Socialist website of BO's New Party:
http://www.chicagodsa.org/democraticsocialism.html

Obama is not telling the truth
If Obama would come out and tell us his real plans, the only people who would be happy is the people on welfare that have raised their children and grandchildren to do the same. I'm sure they will get a big chunk of change in Chicago. Oh, let's not forget the leaders in Pakistan and Iran that were told by Obama himself, "When I'm elected I'll take care of the war". Really? What does he mean by that comment? As far as spreading the wealth...where is it going and to whom and who might be paying for that??? Yea, BO, let's spread it around to make you look like the male version of Oprah...only he will do it with our hard-earned money.

Protest the Media event Oct. 21st
We need to demand the truth from the MSM!

Join our "Protest the Media" Event on Oct. 21.

Check it out: http://www.protestthemedia.com

Help by spreading the word.

The Intellectually Bankrupt Response
...to reporting about Obama's now well-documented long term and decidedly NON-casual relationship with a known domestic terrorist is to pretend that there is some moral equivalency to John McCain...

...being forced to engage in certain behaviors by his captors in Vietnam

...tenuous and periferal interactions with certain individuals in the course of campaigning or performing the duties of his elected office

...and campaign contributors

Or, no less intellectually bankrupt, compare the "connection" between McCain and ACORN with the direct training and funding operations Obama engaged in on ACORN's behalf and the current scandal surrounding that organization.

Sure, it's easy to play the "yeah, but what about game, but no one with an IQ above that of pulverized corporolite (fossilized dinosaur feces) can even PRETEND that there is anything even approaching equivalency.

One wonders why anyone would even attempt to much such an obviously specious argument.

How tax the rich really works
Here's an example of how taxing the rich really works. It goes back to the 1990's when they decided to put a tax on luxury items. Guess what tax revenue went down and not up as expected. Who would have thought that?

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/will102899.asp

I didn't remember the Patrick ("Patches as we affectionately call him up here") Kennedy solution of actually giving tax credits based on the size of a yacht.

taxes for the rich
Hey, here's a novel thought for the less than intelligent Democrats to ponder. If Barack Obama raises taxes on the Oil Companies.......DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT THE OIL COMPANIES WILL NOT RAISE THE PRICE OF GAS TO COVER THE HIGHER TAX? If he raised taxes on Maytag....DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE MAYTAG WON'T RAISE THE PRICE OF A WASHER AND DRYER TO COVER THE HIGHER COST FOR TAXES? All corporations in this country that gets a higher tax bill WILL RAISE THE PRICE OF THEIR GOODS TO COVER HIGHER COSTS.......Just who do you think this will hurt??????? It won't hurt the rich...they can afford to pay higher prices...all these higher prices will only hurt the middle and poor...so get ready..If Barack raises taxes..get ready to pay higher prices...Do you really think the trucking industry will not raise the price of every product that's delivered by truck to cover the higher diesel cost because the Oil Companies raise their prices for diesel to cover their new tax bill they get from Obama???? Wake up America....

obama's tax
Hey, here's a novel thought for the less than intelligent Democrats to ponder. If Barack Obama raises taxes on the Oil Companies.......DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT THE OIL COMPANIES WILL NOT RAISE THE PRICE OF GAS TO COVER THE HIGHER TAX? If he raised taxes on Maytag....DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE MAYTAG WON'T RAISE THE PRICE OF A WASHER AND DRYER TO COVER THE HIGHER COST FOR TAXES? All corporations in this country that gets a higher tax bill WILL RAISE THE PRICE OF THEIR GOODS TO COVER HIGHER COSTS.......Just who do you think this will hurt??????? It won't hurt the rich...they can afford to pay higher prices...all these higher prices will only hurt the middle and poor...so get ready..If Barack raises taxes..get ready to pay higher prices...Do you really think the trucking industry will not raise the price of every product that's delivered by truck to cover the higher diesel cost because the Oil Companies raise their prices for diesel to cover their new tax bill they get from Obama???? Wake up America....

The people's intelligence
"McCain offers refundable tax credits for health care, as well as other credits, but he doesn't insult the intelligence of the American people by calling them "tax cuts.""

One problem with this statement...the people aren't very intelligent. In fact, I believe many to be ignorant.

glenda
Do you think the huge tax cuts Bush gave the rich, all 3, helping along the worst national debt in history is patriotic in a time when all of us should, considering we're sending our youth off to die and be maimed, sacrifice something? Bush was asked this once, and, you know what he said? They do sacrifice, when they see such terrible sights on the t.v. from the war. that's all he could come up with. Exxon made record profits these Bush years. Do you think that is patriotic?

Only A Socialist Sees Profits As Problem
Taft asks, "Exxon made record profits these Bush years. Do you think that is patriotic?"

The sad part is that you think profits have anything to do with partiotism.

The problem with such nutty thinking is that you somehow assume wealth is a finite number. So, in your limited vision, if someone else gets a lot, that must mean less for you. How stupid!

Wealth is infinite. Every year, the world's wealth grows robustly. Heck, in the 1930's the NYSE was at less than 100. Today, we have multiple exchanges competing against the NYSE, yet it is over 7,000! Wealth is infinite.

Instead of being envious of other's wealth and demanding that they surrender it to you, why not go out and get your own? Of course, that requires hard work and risk. For Socialists, like you, it is much easier to take by fiat than earn. And, people like Obama, banking on your green and ignorance will buy your vote by promising to steal other people's wealth and give to you.

Sad.

The Taft factual inaccuracy festival
Common liberal canards abound.

"Do you think the huge tax cuts Bush gave the rich..."

The cuts passed during the Bush administration reduced taxes for ALL taxpayers. In their wake (as has happened in the past) the percentage of the tax burden paid by the rish INCREASED.

"...helping along the worst national debt in history..."

Even if it WERE the worst national debt in history (debt levels are properly examined as a percentage of GDP), it was not inadequate tax revenues that drove the debt but out-of-control spending. WHile that is a legitimate complaint with the current administration, it is the one aspect of Bush's economic plan that Obama has COMPLETELY embraced and would expand upon.

"...is patriotic in a time when all of us should, considering we're sending our youth off to die..."

This is a popular liberal non sequitur. It is based on the imbecilic notion that some benefit is gained for our young men put in harm's way by engaging in policies (tax increases) that harm the economy. Placing the concept in terms of "scarifice" doesn't make the proposal any less economically stupid. In fact, while Bush's initial comments about "sacrificing peace of mind" were stupid as well, his follow up explanation, that the strength of the economy is a huge benefit to this cuntry particularly in times of struggle was completely correct.

"Exxon made record profits these Bush years. Do you think that is patriotic?"

Actually, only in raw dollars (which is useless for assessing actual performance). Actually Exxon was LESS profitable becasue their margins shrank. Margins in the oil industry are actually thinner than in most other industries. Is success in busines that increases American prosperity and creates jobs patriotic? Hell, yes!

Obama has
47 TRILLION DOLLARS IN NEW TAXES written in bills waiting to be passed.

McCain has received a tax reform plan which repeals all existing taxes, removing them from the cost of everything: food, clothing, health care, education, electricity, telephone service, government, gasoline, heating oil, etc. The hundreds of hidden indirect taxes (which we the people pay) would be replaced by ONE PROPER TAX. Eliminating all those taxes would reduce the price of everything - including government - by one-third (1/3).
Wouldn't we all be better off?

Who needs the rich?
Let's get rid of the rich. We don't need their investment capital. We don't need their employment opportunities. All we need is our dear government. They'll take care of us!
This is change we can believe in! ...Oh wait, hasn't this been tried before? Nah! Not if messiah O came up with this idea!

Only To The Ignorant Is Wealth Finite
Barack Obama's stated mission is to redistribute the wealth: Rob Peter (5% of America) and pay Paul (95% of America) -- an old political trick practiced by Democrats that depends on Consumer greed and ignorance.

Instead of urging Americans to go get their own wealth, Obama recommends just taking it from others. How nice. Remember trickle-down-economics? It is not a science, but an observation, like Karma, or what-goes-around-comes-around. Taking from others has a pay-back.

Trust me, those at the top are not going to take a pay cut. Like all good Socialists, the Obama team is hoping that citizenry aren't smart enough to figure out that as you tax the producers of goods, services and jobs, they will simply pass it back to the citizenry with higher prices and lost jobs.

It is amazing the power that greed does to a voter -- ignore consequences, ignore logic, ignore country, go for immediate self gratification. Think "ME"! Vote Obama! He is betting on your greed / ignorance.

Obama is a lot like the Lotto: neither deliver like the promise; And, just like the Lotto, betting on Obama is a tax on ignorance.

F1
Slick but no cigar. One of Reagan's most trusted and wise financial experts was asked to join the Bush team in 2000, Paul O'Neill. The exchange that took place the day a third tax cut for the rich came up, is a must read.

Bush balked, he thought maybe a third one was going too far, and O'Neill basically quit after that.

" For instance, pertaining to the second [sic] huge tax cut embraced by the White House, O'Neill stated that Bush initially expressed surprise, saying that he thought the "rich people" had received enough support through the initial tax cut. Cheney reportedly pressed the point for a second tax cut, indicating that it was important to grab the mantle and press the point further."

I guess though, your answer to my question is, No the rich shouldn't have to sacrifice, making huge profits during two wars is patriotic.

Joe the Plumber
That little piece of Obama - is Obama.
I'll raise your taxes so that you can "spread the wealth around" - you know so that those who live on the dole (some have for generations) can have more freebies - let the government continue to support them. Well, a lesson for the ignorant, keep taxing people who work, even those who are rich, and the welfare money will be reduced. It is time RIGHT NOW AND PASS IT ON: WE TAXPAYERS HAVE PAID OUT OVER $349 BILLION DOLLARS IN WELFARE TO ILLEGAL ALIENS - MORE THAN WHAT WE HAVE SPENT IN IRAQ! IT IS TIME TO CUT OFF THAT SUPPLY (GO ALONG WAY IN REDUCING THE BAILOUT BILL) AND CLOSE OUR BORDERS. IT IS TIME TO MAKE CERTAIN ONLY THOSE CITIZENS IN DIRE NEED, IE.DISABLED OR THE ELDERLY QUALIFY FOR WELFARE. WE HAVE (ACCORDING TO VARIOUS STATS) OVE 30 MILLION ILLEGALS IN THIS COUNTRY TAKING CIZITENS JOBS - WHAT WILL IT BE IN TEN YEARS? - 50 million?

Stop the socialism now
Giving to the exploitors of the needy and the poor, whether it's loans that can not be afforded or the new social program of the month.The legacy of President Bush will be spend big and created the biggest governmaent in United States history, civil servants and social programs of waste. First thing this country need is a federal hiring freeze, and then the downsizing of all cabinet departments,and the elimination of the department of education. Put the education business back in the state hands. Remove all union chiefs,education evaluators,and anyone not in the loop to educate society. Remove the professional educator from all school boards. Requiring all persons with school age childern that must be attending public shools to be eligible for positions on school boards. Limit the size of administration positions so public financing is not just spent on salaries of administrators and others that are not in the classroom.

Sen Government doesn't hide socialism
Sen Government doesn't hide his socialism he embraces it.

When during the debates he is hit up on class warfare and wealth redistribution he doesn't try to deny or cover up he says what great things there are.

When asked about health care he says it is a RIGHT just like freedom of speech.

when Fighter Pilot McCain zaps him with a bomb about sen Obama wanting to take Joes Money so Obama can redistribute it, instead of eltting Joe keep it, Obama does not deny. he says it is the fair thing to do.

Most people in America today understand EXACTLY the points that are raised about Sen Obama and his marxism. The amazing thing to me is they just don't care, they actually LIKE the idea.
tinsldr2@yahoo.com

Al
No one ever advocated not having rich people, it works, and its basically the American way. Do you think Warren Buffett would back Obama if that were true? However, we need to be fair and to help out the mom and pops of America. Fact:

"In the meantime, the top 1 percent has multiplied its wealth many times over and now takes home 20% of the national income, owning some 45 percent of the privately held wealth in the US. "

Fact;

"The average wage of the average worker is lower now than in 1973 and has been lower or flat for the past 35 years. That's the condition of the 300 million or so Americans. "

Right on about Obama's taxes...
Finally, an intelligent response to Obama's flawed tax plan... If only, Americans would wake up ... they would realize their taxes will not be lower under his plan. He merely wants to redistribute their wealth.

Questions for taft
Taft what percentage of the money you earn do you think you should be able to keep.

What percentage of the income should someone who makes twice what you make keep and what percentage should someone who makes ten times what you make keep?

And if you don't mind what is your current income bracket and age? I ask this one because I would like to know if you dream of you or your children reaching the twice or ten times what you make rate.

Secondly, assuming you had more disposable income, would you prefer to give it direct to charity yourself or through a government intermediary.

I am off to lunch but would love to debate the issue with you when I get back.

Tinsldr2@yahoo.com

Obama's Joe Backfired
Hey, Joe, he's from my home town here in Toledo. We are proud of Joe. He had the guts to question Obama, who I might add, whimped out. He was caught off-guard. He probably thought that Joe was a supporter of his. HA! It didn't seem so and BO seemed to be without words, stumbling all over himself, as I feel he did last night with McCain. He is a liar about his past he even talks about the Rev. Wright in one of his books. You go Joe!! I hear he will be on the national news shows. I love it.

A Nation of Misguided Sheep
I agree with tinsldr2, the American people know who and what Obama is and they don't care! People are happy because they believe the very rich are going to get their "dues." They fail to see the source of their jobs and that they, too, will get their "dues!" My husband and I make over $40,000. a year in retirement WE EARNED. We will be hit with tax increases, and wonder if we will be able to keep our home.
I remember a book from the 50's entitled "A Nation of Sheep," which Americans have become!

The REAL case against B-Ho....

Alinsky, Ayres, ACORN and Obama are Radical Socialists,
Marxists, and communists, and want to tear down America.

They are at the root of many of the problems we face today,
much more than most of us know.

These roots run deep into the past, and what they fear most is the
truth coming out in the short time before this crucial election.

They WANT people to discuss details of empty campaign promises,
taxes, etc, as a distraction to keep the focus away from what it
should be in the remaining days:

WHO IS OBAMA, REALLY?? WHAT IS THE TRUTH??

Here is a MUST READ article which brings it all together in a way
you have probably never seen before- Voter Fraud, Govt. Spending,
Education, Economic Housing Crisis, and more:

"Barack Obama and the Strategy of Manufactured Crisis."


http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/barack_obama_and_the _strategy.html

Pass it on !

WE THE PEOPLE PAY ALL TAXES!!!
We the people pay all taxes, and we are the only ultimate source of all tax revenue. Regardless where government initially collects the money, all tax money ultimately comes from us, the people, even though business has to pay thousands or millions of dollars at one time, and get it back from us one dollar at a time.
Since we the people are the one and only source of all tax revenue:
There should be only one tax to collect all tax revenue.
It should be a single, simple, fair, direct, graduated, individual, full-income tax levied on living persons for each level of government: One Tax and Done.
The best thing that government can do to help the country, the people, and even government, is to repeal all of the many hundreds, or thousands of existing taxes, fees, and charges. These taxes are the federal deficit. These taxes are the high price of everything. These tax eliminations are spending cuts. Every tax that is eliminated is a tax that we the people no longer have to pay. These taxes are the difference between the price we pay for health care and everything else, and the price we would pay if these taxes were repealed. Eliminating these taxes will remove them from the price paid for everything by everyone, including government.
One Tax and Done will provide many benefits to all, even government:
One Tax and Done will reduce the price paid for everything by one-third.

Pat: The people DO NOT know....

Alinsky, Ayres, ACORN and Obama are Radical Socialists,
Marxists, and communists, and want to tear down America.

They are at the root of many of the problems we face today,
much more than most of us know.

These roots run deep into the past, and what they fear most is the
truth coming out in the short time before this crucial election.

They WANT people to discuss details of empty campaign promises,
taxes, etc, as a distraction to keep the focus away from what it
should be in the remaining days:

WHO IS OBAMA, REALLY?? WHAT IS THE TRUTH??

Here is a MUST READ article which brings it all together in a way
you have probably never seen before- Voter Fraud, Govt. Spending,
Education, Economic Housing Crisis, and more:

Barack Obama and the Strategy of Manufactured Crisis.


http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/barack_obama_and_the _strategy.html

Pass it on !

Need a smile?
Go to You Tube and type Sarahcuda Pins (or pin I forgot). That's the show where Gretchen showed off the "barracuda with lipstick" and "pitbull with lipstick" pins I sent her.

They're by George Harris Designs.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Go 'Cuda, GO!!!!

Taft's Public Education Is Showing
Taft offers, "I guess though, your answer to my question is, No the rich shouldn't have to sacrifice, making huge profits during two wars is patriotic."

Look, this is simple stuff: Profits are the fruit of delivering goods and services according to the good will of the buyer. Profits is a measure of performance.

If one fails, one does not get profits. The better the performance, the better the profits. And, since profits are taxed, the more profits, the more taxes.

Isn't that good enough for you?

Your public school education is showing.

THREE STRIKES AND YOU'RE OUT
I sure that sounds familiar to you Larry, since you are familiar with south central inner city. But the point, my friend is, its over...

Obama/Biden 2008 + Democratic Senate= Its Over

Don't you get it independent voters don't care about what happened when Obama was 8 years old and why isn't Mccain bringing up Rev Wright, Theory....he has something to hide that he doesn't want exposed, its not for the love of Obama.

God willing we are about to see an historical event in American History, you would think that Mr. Elders, would be able to appreciate how far his forefathers have brought him.

Pat and retirement income
Many non-rich people when they retire have money in investments. That means Capitol Gains!
Sen McCain wants to cut YOUR capitol Gains tax and Sen Obama wants to raise capital gains tax. That is a further tax on middle class.

as the wise man said, A penny saved is a penny earned. those capital gains are something we earned and it's not just the wealthy that save!


Nice try Taft
Slick but no cigar. Describing Paul O’Neill as “[o]ne of Reagan's most trusted and wise financial experts” is your first problem. He was NEVER ANY SUCH THING. But the REAL proble with your response is that the opinions of any particular individual is entirely irrelevant. It is an indisputable fact that the tax cuts reduced the tax rates for ALL taxpayers and that the percentage of taxes paid by the rich INCREASED.

Nor for that matter does it change the fact that calling for “sacrifice” is blatantly Unpatriotic when, in fact, the “sacrifice” being called for is detrimental to EVERYONE.

Your response not only doesn’t warrant a cigar, it shows a willingness to embrace inaccuracy and irrelevancy in order to make specious points.

Typical.

Still wrong, Taft
"No one ever advocated not having rich people, it works, and its basically the American way."

Would that that were so.

"Do you think Warren Buffett would back Obama if that were true?"

Considering that WB will benefit more than any other human being from this crisis and is interested in diverting the attacks related to such wealth...

"In the meantime, the top 1 percent has multiplied its wealth many times over and now takes home 20% of the national income, owning some 45 percent of the privately held wealth in the US."

The tax burden for that group is, however much greater than the percentage of income. So much for increasing taxes in the name of "fairness."

"The average wage of the average worker is lower now than in 1973 and has been lower or flat for the past 35 years. That's the condition of the 300 million or so Americans."

THAT is a liberal distortion. The REAL fact is that the nature of compensation has changed and people receive more in benefits (partly due to tax rules and partly due to greater demand for benefits). In ACTUAL FACT, total real compensation has consistently grown year after year and the pretense that people have been falling behind based on a disingenuous concentration on direct wages amounts to nothing less than a bald-faced lie.

But, hey, thanks for playing!

Lon
You just don't get it, do you? The middle class is the group that will benefit from not spreading the wealth around. I run a small business. If people don't have money they don't buy.

BHO is going after the rich to spread the wealth and turning us into a socialistic society. You want socialism...vote for BO.
You want to stay in the middle class, vote for a conservative.
You're sucha Troll, I shouldn't even try to spell it out for you. Troll away...

Eill
Ayers bombed buildings and killed 7 people. His past ifs NOT a petty issue.

Taft
I work for a family owned high line auto dealer. If my upper class employer is hit with higher tax rates, who do you think will make less money. They make the financial decisions and they are used to a certain income. If the big pot of money is cut back, my income will suffer.
Wealthy people have continued to purchase these high line cars, which in turn keeps my paycheck in tact. If we tax these people like BO wants to, they'll stop buying. If they stop buying, less sales tax is collected causing our government to tax us even more. That tax won't be on the wealthy any more, it'll be on me.
And just like I think libs are pretty arrogant when they are sure what the temperature of the globe should be, you are equally arrogant on what constitutes what class and what tax bracket Americans are in.

F1
"Paul H. O’Neill (b.1935) was appointed the 72nd Secretary of the Treasury Department in 2001 by President George W. Bush. O’Neill started his career in government service under President Nixon and continued working under Presidents Ford and Reagan."

So, what do you mean he wasn't a trusted Reagan republican?

I don't know about the real wage liberal myth you speak of, so I won't debate you there. One thing though, from personal experience, the benefits you speak of, probably is the ever and anon increasing health care costs, and I've read we Americans get not much bang for the buck in that situation. So, to be clear, I just wonder if that extra benefits you opine about are really increasing our lot over what it had been in the 1970's?

Lastly, its nice to debate civil ,intelligent people. Thanks

Re: Obamarxist!!
For all you folks out there that think this guy is going to do what he says, you are drinking COOL-ADE!! If this guy gets into office the tax cuts that are in place now will expire and that means that EVERTONE'S taxes are going up!! The 95% that are not going to be taxed is fair because the tax cuts in place will expire!!! And the below 50% don't even pay taxes, so Joe the plumber you will be a victim of the income redistribution that Obamarxist will not tell you, Pray, Pray very hard for the rightous man to win this election, I am not judging but I don't see people like Obamarxist and Socialist Joe who share their wealth (poverty stricken family in Kenya, and Socialist Joe's charity contributions of $900) as the rightous!

People That McCain Owes Allegiance To

I think John McCain’s being in bed with hundreds of lobbyists is worse them Barack Obama serving on a few committees with Ayres.

http://mccainsource.com/corruption?id=0006

soulsamurai Location: CO Reply # 73
Thanks for the link.

To all the Trolls in here, use the link to find out why the Ayers/Obama twins are OT playing penny ante.

Subject: soulsamurai Location: CO Reply

Thanks for the link.

To all the Trolls in here, use the link to find out why the Ayers/Obama twins are NOT playing penny ante.

TO L.J. FROM T.C.

Obama's an "articulate gas bag"!

Not too shabby L.J. Nice ring to it!

TO ROWLY, ROSE, KATHY, MANY OTHERS:

Obama, graduate of The School of Slick Willie, does not have this election locked-up. The Ayers thing IS helping McCain/Palin. Also, there's no doubt the polls are off several points as this election is unlike any other.

This has been the strangest election in U.S. history. And it ain't over!

Go to the 12:09pm post today!
Read the "American Thinker" website posted by Chord in Ohio. My God what a scary article about Sen. Obama!!!
God Save America!
tbrown

F1
Almost forgot. I think you wrong Buffett, he is an honorable man. He lives in Omaha, and keeps down to earth. Saying he would like to benefit from the misery of a great many people isn't a fair charge.

Al,

I don't get into economics much, I admit, I't my weakest area, but my origional question, whether the super wealthy should keep their 3 huge tax breaks and made by McCain permanent, is really the thing to do when we're at war, and now that we are at a crossroad in our economic history. I think all Americans should sacrifice something, and not just the brave troops that go and put their lives on the line. It was so revolting to read, for instance, after the bailout, how some executives from AIG, (I think) went to California and spent thousands of dollars on pampering themselves!

To Lon from PA
McCain has not said he will cut taxes for 100% of Americans but rather that he opposes any increase in taxes on 100% of Americans. There is a difference.
I cringe every time I hear Obama say "middle class." He certainly is not middle class. He has lived a most privileged life since being shipped by his mother from Indonesia to HI to be raised after age 10 by his white grandparents, and he is an angry black man who wants to turn the U.S. upside down because of it.
Supported by a Muslim convert, Ayers, Rezko and other Muslim donors including Hamas Obama drugged his way through a couple of years at Occidential College, went to Columbia and Harvard, got into the IL legislature by lawyering out all opposition, only to vote "present" a record 130 times, was given a "job" as a community organizer and was a part time law lecturer who wrote no academic papers. He launched a run for the Presidency after 143 partial days in the U.S. Senate.
That is only the tip of the iceberg of the guy you argue is ready to be POTUS.

Bravo!
Good and truthful reporting Larry. I can hardly wait to read next week's column. We must keep pounding away at this guy until he is fully exposed as the liar and political opportunist that he is.

The Next Job Boom!!
Let's see...Larry Elder's multi-part takedown of Barack Obama follows a similar multi-part takedown from Thomas Sowell....Of course, no one would see a pattern here, right?...Only a "radical", "socialist", "extremist", "Marxist" and whatever-else "ist" would point out that the "Black Conservatives" are entering the political "surge" of a lifetime....Oh, I know...The Conservative Movement does not recognize identity politics. The identity politics crew is dominated by the left..Yes, we all know the talking points on race and politics...Still...It seems to me that the "Black Conservative Movement" will probably be elevated to unprecedented heights if Obama is elected POTUS...I know, the GOP demonstrated it's commitment to "racial diversity" by it's 2% representation by Blacks, at the convention in Minnesota....But, mark it down, those days will soon be a distant memory...The "also rans" on Townhall, which includes Elder, Steele, Blackwell, Walt Williams and others; will see their status elevated if BO wins in November. They will join "The One" (of Black Conservatives) Thomas Sowell..They will take on and take down that Bla..uh, President with fervor and righteous indignation..I say go get him!..The economic pundits warn that we're going to enter into hard times soon...Well there's certainly one career path that is sure to be lucrative...That of the Black Conservative pundit..I can't wait to see how much this group will grow and be admired and quoted on Townhall...Yes, "Change" is in the air!

Lone Idiote
Bertha Lewis, Acorn's chief organizer, said in a statement that came with the photo, “It has deeply saddened us to see Senator McCain abandon his historic support for ACORN and our efforts to support the goals of low-income Americans."

From one of your links. Doesn't look like this supports any relationship between McCain and ACORN nor do the others pan out.

Stick it where the sun don't shine.


Kinda says it All

“Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.” —Ayn Rand

Don't allow them to get away with it.

McCain/Pailin 08


Judith
McCain Supports ACORN Before he's Against It

http://www.futuremajority.com/node/3329

Pictures don't lie


Judith
The difference you fail to see is that....., McCain thought that ACORN was an up and up non profit organization.So did I. So did many Americans who live near cities such as Baltimore where ACORN is active.

Barry Dunham,on the other hand, knew full well the dirty dealings of ACORN. He represented them as a lawyer. He trained with them as a community activist.He had info. He sounded no alarms. He GAVE them money to keep up their "GOOD WORK".

So....,is that easy enogh for you to understand? It's much more sinister and ugly on Barry's part but I tried to keep it simle!


Thank you Mr. Elder
Keep up the good work Mr. Elder. There are many dipdots out there that cannot see the proverbial forest for the trees. I keep hoping that if wonderful people like you say it often enough they may finally see the sham that is Barry Dunham!

Maybe you and Dr. Sowell can hit the road with Joe the plumber to talk to people about the horrors of a Barry Dunham presidency!

Judith
Obama just recently gave ACORN over $800,000 of American tax payers money.
Obama was one of the creators of this thug group.

McCain(if he abandoned them), was because of their obvious voter fraud and thug like activity.

Yikes! Apologies to JUDITH!
My posting 93 was meant for LONE IDIOT.I typed your name by mistake! Mea culpa Judith, Mea Maximus Culpa!

Obama Part 1:
Where was he born? I was born in Chicago in 1934.
How did I get certified true copies of it?
By writing the county & asking for them.
WHY CAN'T OBAMA DO THE SAME?
Why did I need those certified true copies?
To go on a Carnival cruise; It was required.
THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES REQUIRES
LESS PROOF OF VALID CITIZENSHIP THAN A CRUISE?

Taft
How about taking all the money rich people have?
You could only do that one time, because most of their "money" is in stocks for reinvestments.
After you have taken their money, you and everyone else will be out of a job.
THAT'S the economics of it.
The stockmarket would be=00000000000!

Extensive article on Obama and ACORN
To get a great overview, just go to townhall.com for a complete look at Obama's camaraderie with ACORN.

Now who would've thought that Mr.Innocence would such a thing.


The Case Against Barack Obama, Part 1
Hey, great article! Thanks, Mr. Elder!! We need more people like out out there to expose the stnky left-wing idiots!!! With your permission, I'd like to forward your article to some friends, if I may.

LC
Thanks! It really is ok as everyone makes mistakes and I have done the same thing when stressed "under fire".

Have a good day.

Ciao,
Judy




OK Larry
BO is quoted as wanting to "Spread the wealth!"

That sounds like something very akin to "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need?"

Seems like whenever and wherever that social/economic theory has been tried ability is suddenly in very short supply while needs suddenly know no limits.

Of course with a messiah running the whole thing there will be a different outcome this time! No?????

Obama Part 1:
MY OPINIONS ONLY
FOR ME; PART ONE OF THE CASE OF OBAMA IS:
1. I was born in Chicago in 1934. I can prove
it with my birth certificate certified true
valid copy of it.

2. Where was Obama born? Why can't he also so
easily get a certified true (valid) copy
of HIS U.S. Birth Certificate. HE'S NEVER
SHOWN ONE TO DATE, so how can we KNOW?
A 'Certificate of Live Birth' issued by Hawaii doesn't necessarily prove the birth occurred IN Hawaii, as I understand it, but only that there was a live birth of a person. I stand to be corrected it wrong.

3. Why did I need my birth certificate?
The Carnival Cruise line required it.

4. Does the Presidency of the United States
REQUIRE LESS THAN A CRUISE LINE, TO SHOW
VALID CITIZENSHIP?
5. When a form to become an Illinois Attorney
had a space for whether the applicant had
ever used (or been known by?) another name,
Barach Hussein Obama, aka Barry Soetoro,
answer it with a "NO," as I've read reported
BUT..he was enrolled in a Catholic school as
Barry Soetoro, religion Islam. I believe he
went to that school for 3 years before going
to a Muslim school. By why was he not
enrolled as Barack Hussein Obama? He then
enrolled in a Muslim school, as I've read
reported, but don't know under which name.

6. My son adopted his nephew, and the boy then
legally became "John Doe" instead of "John
Smith. Hmmm. My other grand or great grand
children who had merely a "stepfather" did
NOT have their last name's changed. Hmmmm
COULD THAT INDICATE MR. SOETORO ADOPTED Barack
Hussein Obama, aka, Barry Soetoro? Would he
have not then lost his U.S. citizenship? Hmmm

THAT IS OBAMA PART I...a lot of the rest of
Part II, III, or whatever, needs these answers


b hussein and windfall taxes
since b hussein is a prime example of someone who should be paying higher windfall taxes based on his unreadable books that are viewed a something close to scripture by his acolytres'

But if you asked his I hate whites wife, she would probably believe that the two of them are entitled to keep every penny they earn as payment for america being such a hateful place that puts up barriers to keep black folks in their place.

But if the simple-minded need a ready example of socialism out of control they need look no further than belgium, a country being torn apart by those who work and pay the freight and those who think they are owed things because they are deadbeats and losers.

But this exactly who farrakhan's messiah is appealing to. When he talks of taking money from the earners to give to the losers he is telling america that he has the wisdom to decide who should be punished and who should be rewarded'

But in his vision of a socialist nirvana, the messiah seems to have concern for the great unwashed. But the reality is that he will rub shoulders with the rich white elitists ho all believe they know is best for the country.

America can do better than this false prophet, but the msm elitists are so much in love with him they can't see the danger he presents

Carolyn wrong on birth certificate
Sen Obama (and I am NOT an Obama fan , I am voting McCain)obtained the certified copy of his birth record from the state of HI in 2007. He applied and got what anyone that was born in HI and requested the certificate would get.

The cert was inspected by several organizations and passed including the election commission. A copy was scanned and posted on the internet and some people feel the scanned copy was faked.

For this to be a fraud however, would mean that either someone with power altered the HI records and there was a large conspiracy involving multiple people to back it up.

As much as i want Sen Obama to lose (cause he is a marxist and will combine the worst parts of a Bush presidency with a yellow streak)this Birth certificate stuff is nonsense.

Again he proved citizenship (with the HI birth documents) to the Election commision to get registered.

Class Warfare
John McCain would have us believe that Obama's "tax cuts" are class warfare.

Can someone explain to me how during the past eight years, the rich elite have prospered like none before them and received tax cuts?

How middle class incomes have decreased?

How deregulating Wall Steet, Banks, and the Oil Industry actually benefited America?

How the national debt and spending always increases in much larger proportions under Republican Presidents as well as the size of federal government?

How pursuing a war against a country where no terrorists that attacked the United States resided?

How trickle down economics work? You see, I'm still waiting for a drop of water.

The harder I work, the less I have been receiving. While many middle class Americans work harder and longer hours, under Republican leadership they get less and have more of a debt burden that one day must be paid off. Meanwhile the rich elite get wealthier, take longer vacations, and certainly don't work as hard as middle America.

Lastly, did anyone notice in the debate last night, when John McCain was asked by the moderator what federal programs he is going to cut, John never answered the question?

Republicans have lost their way. They are neither for limited government, nor for fiscal responsibility.




Ronald
McCain has said in response to Obama's claim that he would cut taxes on 95% of Americans that he would cut taxes on 100% of Americans. Of course there is a difference between that and saying one would not raise taxes on 100% of Americans. But either McCain doesn't know what that difference is, or he is putting himself on the side of the former (or both).

Judith
I don't know what your small business is, but if it is like most small businesses it will do better from more money going to the high percentage of people who earn less than $250,000 a year than it would to much larger amounts going to the comparatively fewer people who make more than 250,000.

Of course if your small business is to sell yachts then you can disregard this message as it does not apply to you.

glenda
If oil companies could make more money by raising the price of gas they would be doing so already. A tax on their profits will not suddenly make the price by which they maximize those profits go up.

If the tax on oil companies hurts the economy, and individual consumers (which it could) it will do so in a different way than how you describe it.

Still wrong, Taft
"So, what do you mean he wasn't a trusted Reagan republican?"

Imagine my suprise at finding the official bio at the treasury Dept. to be in accurate. In fact, O'Neill left public service to work at International Paper after the Ford Administration and did not re-enter public service until Bush tapped him for Treasury Secretary. At the time, Time magazine noted both a lack of experience in the Reagan administration (as a plus) and his general antipathy for tax cuts. So, no, he was not a "trusted Reagan Republican" and he REALLY wasn't "[o]ne of Reagan's most trusted and wise financial experts" as you claimed intially (which even the bio you found does not even come close to contending.

"I don't know about the real wage liberal myth you speak of, so I won't debate you there."

Smart move.

"One thing though, from personal experience, the benefits you speak of, probably is the ever and anon increasing health care costs, and I've read we Americans get not much bang for the buck in that situation. So, to be clear, I just wonder if that extra benefits you opine about are really increasing our lot over what it had been in the 1970's?"

Again, you have chosen a completely irrelevant point that in no way changes the results of analysis. Total compensation is used to pay for things including healthcare costs. The inflation adjustment to determine real compensation includes healthcare costs. This is why it is essential to use total compensation in the first place in order to look at it on an apples to apples basis. Total real compensation (and thus overal financial condition) has steadily improved.

Will
Do you sit and do nothing but talk to yourself all day?

A person who founded an organization that members were tried and convicted of murdering 3 police officers Seargant Brian McDonnell, Officer Waverly Brown and Seargant Edward O'Grady and an armored car driver ( so sorry I don't have his name ) that this insect ayers does not matter?

What a self absorbed ,hate filled parasite you are.

Why don't you pass your stupid comments on to the police organizations around the country and while you are at it pass your comments on to the Officers families. Preferably to their children.

Oh and coward ayers also contributes money to the cop killer mumia abu jamal's get off death row defense fund. Probably the missing chicago annenburg challenge millions that went missing.

Oh but excuse me will you little cowardly "man?"

That does not matter to whiny self absorbed libs, does it?

wjriii
I believe that whether the government uses more or less progressive tax brackets has nothing directly to do with how much the government is meddling in business. (By contrast buying up mortgages and taking shares in banks does directly affect how much meddling the government is doing).

I don't know exactly how the Obama tax plan will evolve when it hits the reality of governing, or the McCain plan for that matter either. But I do believe that something in the shape of the Obama plan would be better than something that is in the shape of the McCain plan, and so think the Obama plan is likely to be the better one for the country.

The difference between a 95% plan and a 100% plan of course effects the distribution of taxes. And which will have a better effect is a matter of whether given the tax code and economy as it is, whether the economy would be better primed with supply side economics or demand side economics.

Put another way, which does Judith's business need more, investors or customers. If it is customers, then she will likely do better under Obama's plan. If it is investors then she will do better under McCains. Obviously that oversimplifies things because the investors need not invest directly in her. She could benefit from the investors creating other jobs and so indirectly getting her customers. That is why there is nothing a priori about whether progressive or regressive tax moves would work better.

The only way that the 100% and the 95% differ essentially is if one is not concerned with the effect on the economy, but only about whether one personally gets a cut or not (and oddly not concerned about how much of a cut only the if). Then I suppose one could guarantee a cut with the 100% but that seems to be a bad system of judging.

oldsocialworker
I am not sure if you were joking and calling 52million dollars lower middle class, or writing 52 thousand in an odd way.

But the reality is that I don't care about the labels or divisions between rich and middle class. I have nothing against the rich.

I do care about what tax rates are best for getting the economy going during a time of heavy debt and threatening recession (or worse). And I do care about the degree to which people can get by under the tax system that is enacted.

On both of these grounds I think Obama's tax plan is preferable to McCain's. I would think this even if people who make 52 million dollars a year should be called middle class.

Perhaps under Obama's plan, we will be faced with the unpleasantness of hearing people who make 52 million dollars a year complain about how unfortunate they are. But I am ready to run that risk. And if the 90's are an indication the people who make 52 million a year will pay more in taxes, but they will make more due to a stronger economy, so they will not even have that complaint either. Not that that would necessarily stop them from whining.

Subcritical MA - "Trickle Down..."
We are farmers. In 2004 we sold our stateside properties and moved our farming operations to Brazil (Thank God!) We used to employ over 200 people in white collar activities and up to 4.000 at harvest time.
Excessive regulations and high taxes (even with so many "subsidies") eventually placed us into a corner, we wree simply not competitive in the world markets, it was either close down or move. So, we took our capital, know how and credibility to where we could grow again.


America has only a small handfull of industries actually producing tangible wealth.

Selling hamburgers to each other, promoting healthcare and financial services do not produce real wealth.

Real wealth tangibles, like autos, steel, appliances, clothing, shoes, machinery, TV sets, computers, cables etc.etc.,

Currently our major industry would be agriculture and it's trending in a scary downward spiral with excessive regulations and taxes.
Civil construction is dead in the water and might take 20 years to start functioning again.
Healthcare, (Not tangible wealth) is in dire straights with excessive legal domination by trial lawyers who have caused premiums to be out of reach both for business and individuals.
Financial Services - New York has lost credibility for many decades to come, these services, once entrusted to NY are no more, they are being diluted to multiple financial centers like London, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Zurich and even Sao Paulo.
The only way out of this mess is to eliminate capital gains taxes altogether, decrease business taxes by 50% or more (better yet, a flat tax on individuals only) and try to lure back the thousands of productive industries back to the USA, of course regulations would also have to be limited to essentials, not for the justification of ever growing bureaucracies.
A tax code of 16000+ pages is madness!

Taxes
When the discussion is about taxes, all I can think of are all the taxes we pay, for example; income taxes on our social security ( my husband and I are in our 70's), sales tax on anything purchased, gasoline taxes, utility taxes, personal property taxes. There isn't much that isn't taxed. While working as a temp for an accounting firm, during tax season, I was amazed at the people who filed for earned income credit, claimed the same child or children or filed bogus W-2's and swore the information was true. When the company reported to the IRS the fradulent W-2's, the answer from the IRS was that they don't persue it if it's under $5,000. I wonder what would happen if we all decide not to report our income or file a return. We need a fair or flat tax in this country. We are entitled to keep some of what we earn.

Judith
Thank you. I feel better now!

Citizenship
I thought the issue was citizenship and not birth certificate.

I think his mother gave up both their citizenships to move to Indonesia and show what a true rebel she was.

Supposedly obama did not go through proper channels to regain it . He seems to be able to do as he pleases and say as he pleases and it does not matter.

His friends and associates can condone murder and form groups to commit it. They can plunder our Treasury and drink from the tax payer trough and it does not matter.

They can call whites the blue eyed devils, god da3m America and even say they are not proud of America. We can let our babies die and scorn a decent woman who CHOSE to have an imperfect baby ( How dare she when she could have gotten rid of such a thing ). We can even print the most vulgar thing we can say about a woman like this on a shirt.

But thats ok to most? Americans? I don't believe that we are that lost.We shall see on election day.

The Communist party of America issued a statement today that their time has come.

Trust me libs you are dead wrong.

As for Buffet
"I think you wrong Buffett.... Saying he would like to benefit from the misery of a great many people isn't a fair charge."

I didn't say he would with certainty, but I CAN say that he deliberately distorted the issue of estate taxes (that he avoids by foundations) and that he deliberately distorted the issue of the recognition of stock options (because reporting in the manner he advocated is particularly beneficial to stockholders - which is what he is, primarily).

Whether he is honorable or not does not make the political leanings of anyone relevant to the issues at hand (or not subject to question in any circumstance where personal gain might be involved).

"I don't get into economics much..."

Obviously.

"[M]y origional question, whether the super wealthy should keep their 3 huge tax breaks and made by McCain permanent, is really the thing to do when we're at war...."

...remains a mischaracterization of the issue. Again, there is no justification for raising taxes on this group except envy. Whether or not taxes are increased has no bearing on this nation's foreign policy. Even your expansion of "why" they should sacrifice is without merit. As you concede, we have an entirely voluntary military. This is not a justification for their misuse, but the very fact that it IS voluntary obviates any perceived requirement of "sacrifice" from third parties when they are put in harms way.

Many of us give generously to the troops because we appreciate their service, but the notion that a confiscation of property by government is justified because the military is in use is logically untenable.

"It was so revolting to read, for instance, after the bailout, how some executives from AIG, (I think) went to California and spent thousands of dollars on pampering themselves!"

Regardless of the wisdom of the bailout, it still has absolutely nothing to do with tax policy or our troops.

Subcritical thinking
"Can someone explain to me how during the past eight years, the rich elite have prospered like none before them and received tax cuts?"

They haven't and everyone got cuts?

"How middle class incomes have decreased?"

They haven't. Total compensation continues to rise.

"How deregulating Wall Steet, Banks, and the Oil Industry actually benefited America?"

Deregulation had nothing to do with either the current financial crisis or the rise in oil prices.

"How the national debt and spending always increases in much larger proportions under Republican Presidents as well as the size of federal government?"

It doesn't always.

"How trickle down economics work? You see, I'm still waiting for a drop of water."

The "trickle down" slur does not alter the fundamental principles of economics that actually created the prosperity of the 80s AND 90s (things don't happen instantly).

In reality, compensation has grown for average Americans (in each quintile) and leisure time has increased. The arguments about more work for less pay are without merit. The complaint about goverment spending is legitimate, but there has never been a candidate more committed to spending than Barack Obama.

Yes, Republicans like McCain have lost their way. They are neither for limited government, nor for fiscal responsibility ... but then neither are Democrats (and raising taxes is not fiscal responsibility).

Lon needs econ course
"If oil companies could make more money by raising the price of gas they would be doing so already. A tax on their profits will not suddenly make the price by which they maximize those profits go up."

To the contrary, an increase in taxes operates exactly the same as any other increase in the costs of production. It alters the price at which the supplier is willing to offer a product to achieve an expected return and shifts the supply curve in such a way that the equilibrium rice rises and the consumer pays the great majority - perhaps even all - of the tax.

glenda's take on the impact of higher corporate taxes, unlike your own, is economically sound.

The Case Against Barack Obama
B.O.’s main and almost only talent is self-promotion. But that is not a desirable quality in anyone aspiring to the presidency. It’s all hot air rhetoric, smoke and mirrors, calculated to deceive. There’s no track record of honorable accomplishments that directly translates to the qualifications sought after in our chief executive of government and CIC of our military. Nobama is just an audacious pretender, a skillful opportunist but nothing more. If this ultra-lightweight gets elected I predict that he’ll make Woodrow Wilson or Jimmy Carter look like star performers. And if he gets elected, it shows just how easily duped voters can be; sheep waiting to be fleeced.

Part of the problem
...is the belief that there actually is such a thing as "demand-side" economics. While, "supply side" economics is really a misnomer, all too many people believe that the economy is driven by consumers (or, in the discredited Keynesian phraseology "aggregate demand"). Nothing could be farther from the truth (and matters are further complicated when GDP measures are referenced that presume to show that GDP is 2/3 consumption driven because the production side is eliminated to prevent double-counting).

The economy is driven by the decisions to invest in anticipated demand (which are then judged by consumers as either correct or not) and it is these investments that drive job growth, productivity, etc.

Attempts to place more money in the hands of the poor, the middle class, the government or Miss Stillwell's third grade class by first taking them from someone else (the "rich") in the form of taxation must economically result in fewer opportunities, fewer jobs and a weaker economy. This is because it is economic efficiencies that create EVERY job and individuals in the marketplace always, by definition allocate resources more efficiently than does government.

I don't know exactly how either candidate's tax plan will evolve when it hits the reality of governing, but both higher taxes and higher spending are economically destructive. And one candidate has already promised to spend at a level that would make even the current administration blush. That such a plan could be economically beneficial is an impossibility.

So if one is legitimately "concerned with the effect on the economy", one cannot endorse Barack Obama's plan under any circumstances.

Wolf in Sheep's Clothing
I am continuously amazed as references to Obama's past come into the limelight and our media does nothing about these fantastic stories. Will the real Obama please stand up and quit smoozing us with his calmness and calculated responses. Who's puppet will he turn out be? Maybe the Chicago Machine? Does his birth certificate really show he is not an American citizen? Then what happens?

I am reminded that if Obama was a Republican and McCain was a Democrat how the media would be nitpicking every little thing about these unending stories and digging all the way to China for "clues" to the "truth."

I guess Dennis Prager was right, there are two Americas. One blue, one red. I wish it were different but we seem so close to the end that this all does make sense, sort of!

Will he show his true colors within the first 100 days or will it be in 2010 when all the sunset clauses take effect and tax revenues increase by 1 Trillion dollars?


Lon
Have you ever gotten a job from a poor person?
"Life's tough. Even tougher if you're stupid."
John Wayne

Which 95% is it?
Forgive me if this has already been touched on in earlier posts/threads. Early on in the debate last night, I noted that Obama said the following:

Obama: What I've said is I want to provide a tax cut for 95 percent of working Americans, 95 percent. If you make more -- if you make less than a quarter million dollars a year, then you will not see your income tax go up, your capital gains tax go up, your payroll tax. Not one dime. And 95 percent of working families, 95 percent of you out there, will get a tax cut. In fact, independent studies have looked at our respective plans and have concluded that I provide three times the amount of tax relief to middle-class families than Sen. McCain does...Now, the conversation I had with Joe the plumber...

McCain: You know, when Sen. Obama ended up his conversation with Joe the plumber -- we need to spread the wealth around. In other words, we're going to take Joe's money, give it to Sen. Obama, and let him spread the wealth around. I want Joe the plumber to spread that wealth around....

Obama: OK. Can I...

McCain: We're not going to do that in my administration.

Obama: If I can answer the question. Number one, I want to cut taxes for 95 percent of Americans.
---

Now, I noted Obama made some contradictions about who will be getting a tax cut:

95% of working Americans
95% of working families, and
95% of Americans

My question is which is it? Americans? Working Americans? or Working families (including illegal aliens?)...

95% of Americans would be approx 285,000,000.
95% of working Americans would be a subset of the entire population
95% of working families would also be a subset of the entire population.

Does anyone have statistics on working Americans and working families? And has anyone picked up on this in the MSM?


Any of you children planning on
an inheritance?

Barack will take 45% of it.

Old Social Worker
You don't stimulate the economy by taking money away from people. It has been tried in the past with negative results every single time.

Obama has no experience in this area (as well as voids in almost every other) and needs to get educated.

He won't do that because, in the end,he wants to spread the wealth around not because it will help the economy, but because it will help us on the road to socialism which is his goal.

subcritical
About trickle down, You wrote: "I'm still waiting for a drop of water."
Go get a job.

How many jobs
will those folks create with the 500 bucks they get from barack?

They are AFRAID of the Ayres story

Notice the succession of lies and evasions:

1.“He’s just a guy who lives in my neighborhood”
2."Well, yes, we did sit on a board together”
3.“Yes, I did have my first fundraiser at his house”
4.Well, yes, TWO boards, and some other things.
5.Actually, I met him 10 or 15 years ago.
Etc.

The story of B-Ho’s long term, close alliance with Ayres and
Wright is the Rosetta stone that will decipher the coded mystery
that is his radical, racist, Anti-American past and Socialist future.

That is why they are trying so hard to change the subject, call names
and attack anyone who dares discuss Ayres or explore the facts.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/barack_obama_and_the _strategy.html

Character is More Important
Aside from the issues, I judge the person by his/her character foremost. Someone I feel I can trust and able to mobilize our country to do good things. Barack is a question mark because I know nothing about his personal life before he became a politician. His grandparents are noticeably absent; no testimonials from his college friends and collegues. I find this strange for someone running for office. Aside from the controversial associations he has had, the turning point about his character occurred when he and McCain paid their respects at Ground Zero. When they arrive at the Memorial Fountain, McCain laid the wreath respectfully with both hands by the fountain; Barack threw the wreath into the pond with one hand revealing lack of reverence to the fallen. I noticed this difference immediately about the two people. These little things reveal more about the person than all the speeches and ideas they say in the campaign.

RE: tinsldr
MY OPINIONS ONLY
I am glad to meet another McCain voter..they
are so rare.

The ONLY thing that has been displayed on the
internet is a copy of a "Certificate of Live
Birth," via factcheck and/or Dailykos. Even
THAT some bloggers showed discrepancies with a
valid one...the bordering, placement of words,
etc.
That COLB is NOT the same as a Birth Certificate and is NOT a substitute for one.
Until I see it displayed, so bloggers can
dissect it...as they did Dan Rather's "genuine"
papers on Bush's service records... I will stay
with what HAS been shown.

Considering the publishing arm of the State Dept printed a 2009 calendar with beautiful pictures of Mosques for each month, "perfect
for outreach efforts.." and office give aways..
I don't have a penny's worth of confidence in
the integrity of our government.
Which is the BIG BIG reason I want McCain/
Palin in. I truly believe she will get inside
these Depts/Bureaus and do some kind of "Spring
Cleaning" on them! She did it in Alaska and
God willing she'll have 4 years in D.C. as a
"new broom that sweeps clean." She owes none of
them anything.
And you are aware, tinsldr, that Phillip Berg
has a suit against Obama which, as I see it, is
exactly for the purpose of MAKING OBAMA BRING
FORTH A VALID U.S. BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

The case against Barack Obama P1
Larry Elder.....
An educated mind, organizing life experience and morality into good advice for all.


Thank you for your efforts my friend.

in America since 1627

Reader's Digest
Dear Mr. Elder,

Obama may be worse than you imagine: on the cover of the November issue of Reader's Digest, there's a red cross underneath Obama's picture. It's clearly subliminal advertising, meaning:
"Obama is the christ."
It is far worse than you imagine.

sun the one
the $500 won't provide any jobs but will provide some additional monies for bottles of 40 oz adult beverages.

As we saw with the debit cards passed out after katrina much of the money ended up at liquor stores or adult entertainment.

Unfortunately many of those at the lower rungs of the economic scale understand even less about economics that the dimocrat nomineee.

Momentary pleasure is understood, delaying gratification or saving for a rainy day remains a foreign concept

Reply to Egon

Egon: I take your points and thank you for them. One thing that you may have over looked is American greed. I think that this may be part of the problem with many businesses (large) in the United States. We are driven by how much profit a company makes and we seem to deem the workforce (salaries) as a negative. CEO's and corporate execs drive for larger and larger profits at the expense of the workforce. There is nothing wrong with a company posting profits. There is something wrong when, in order to acheive profits, you must destroy your workforce. If corporations weren't so greedy, we may all be better off. Also I feel there is nothing wrong with salary disparity. But I feel we have taken it too far.


Republicans have lost their way. They are neither for limited government nor fiscal responsibility.

Reply to SunThe1
I think you are lost. When you come back with something other than your drivel, we can debate. I have worked since I was in high school and put myself through college. I have never received a dime of support from anyone but my immediate family, and that was sparse. I expect nothing from anyone, but what I can't stand is people that assume other people don't work hard and discount their life experiences. You have a lot to learn or are just ignorant and think what many in this country have been subjected to by recent modern Republican leadership, is funny.

Republicans have lost their way. They are neither for limited government nor fiscal responsibility.

Reply to F1etch
F1etch: You have some good points and they are valid in merit. But I think you are forgetting that the cost of living has far outweighed the measly increases that most workers receive in raises and therefore renders most of what you present moot. As I mentioned to Egon, in America its all about investor returns. Gone are the days of pensions, 8hr workdays that at one time had a paid lunch break, and other benefits. That money now goes to the elite few who grow fatter, wealthier, and work far less for their money. They sit around in endless meetings discussing how to bolster profits at the expense of providing a good place for their workforce. They care nothing for anyone but theirselves.And there is so much more. The middle class has been gutted and work compensation diminished as everything around us goes up and up. But if you are part of the corporate head, you've done quite well as you sell out on your workforce. Excessive greed is bad. I call corporate America the modern aritocrisy. Its bad news.

Republicans have lost their way. They are neither for limited government nor fiscal responsibility.

TruthHurts Offers Endless Nonsense
TruthHurts offers, "I can't wait to see how much this group will grow and be admired and quoted on Townhall...Yes, "Change" is in the air!"

Well, certainly your prose hurts. What on earth are you going on about?

subcritical
the idea that all repubs can be painted with the same brush is ludicrous.

That bush has been a major disappointment to the country is an understatement. Domestically he has been clueless and allowed repubs in congress to turn into big spenders.

That repubs are opposed to the entitlement plantation and fully expect all persons to take charge of their own lives and assume the responsibility for the choices they make.

However this is contrary to the message now being given by the dim nominee. His idea that he is now the one to decide how income should be redistributed is insulting to all.

There are rewards for working and making good choices but likewise there are consequences for not preparing for your own future and for making bad choices. It seems the louis farrakhan's new messiah thinks he should be the only to decide hoiw the govt should engage in social engineering'

But as we have seen in the past two years. The dims in congress under pelosi and reid have been total incompetants and the swamp of corruption they claimed they would drain, they only made worse with even more pork spending and no leadership in dealing with the problems facing the country