Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Wednesday, January 07, 2009
Jonah Goldberg :: Townhall.com Columnist
Who Are the Real Nazis?
by Jonah Goldberg
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Do you feel the leaked information from a global warming alarmist organization is meaningful?



"Go back to the oven! You need a big oven, that's what you need!"

This is what one young woman thought passed for acceptable discourse during an anti-Israel rally last week in, of all places, Fort Lauderdale, Fla. Other chants were similarly unlovely. You can watch it on YouTube if you like.

But why bother? The Fort Lauderdale outburst is just one window on the upside-down world of Israel hatred. Across the Islamic world, and in too many points West, it is still considered a penetrating and poignant insight to call Zionists the "new Nazis." For instance, in Sunday's Gulf News, Mohammad Abdullah al Mutawa, a sociology professor at United Arab Emirates University, penned an essay titled "Zionists are the new Nazis." He began: "Today, the whole world stands as a witness to the fact that the Nazi Holocaust was a mere lie, which was devised by the Zionists to blackmail humanity."

At a Saturday protest in New York against Israel's military assault on Gaza, some carried signs that read: "Israel: The Fourth Reich," "Holocaust by Holocaust Survivors," "Stop Israel's Holocaust," "Holocaust in Gaza" and "Stop the Zionist Genocide in Gaza."

Type "Israel" and "Nazi" into any news search engine and you'll be rewarded, or punished, with a bounty of such statements from just the last week or so. Gaza is the new Auschwitz, the Israeli Defense Forces are SS troops ... I find myself tempted to simply write "et cetera" because it's all so familiar by now. But to do that is to dismiss, and therefore accept, such grotesqueries as trivialities, when in fact such charges are deeply revealing -- just not about Israel.

First, let us note that if supposedly all-powerful Israel is dedicated to exterminating the Palestinian people, it is doing a bad job. The Palestinian population has only grown since 1948. There are more Arab citizens living in Israel proper today than there were in all of Palestine the year Israel was founded.

Perhaps one reason Israel fails at genocide is that it isn't interested in genocide? That would explain why Israel warned thousands of Gazans by cell phone to leave homes near Hamas rocket stockpiles. It would clarify why, even amid all-out war, it offers aid to enemy civilians. It would even illuminate the otherwise mysterious clamor from Israelis for a viable "peace partner."

But no. For millions of Israel haters, the more plausible explanation is that the "defiant" Palestinians have miraculously survived Israel's determination to wipe them out.

Meanwhile, calls for the complete extermination of Israel are routine. The Hamas charter, invoking the fraudulent "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" as justification, demands the destruction of Israel. Hamas exists solely because it is dedicated to the complete obliteration of the "Zionist entity." Remove that "principle" and Hamas is meaningless.

A sick mixture of Holocaust envy and Holocaust denial is the defining spirit of Hamas. Indeed, Holocaust denial passes for a scholarly pursuit not just in Gaza but throughout much of the Arab and Muslim world.

The head of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, literally earned a doctorate in it. His doctoral thesis became a book, "The Other Side: the Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism," in which he denounces "the Zionist fantasy, the fantastic lie that 6 million Jews were killed." In Hamas' eyes, Abbas is an incorrigible moderate.

It's Palestinian Islamists who have ideological and political ties to Nazism stretching back to the days of "Hitler's Mufti," Haj Amin al-Husseini, a happy warrior for the Nazi cause.

So why the obsession with casting the Israelis as the new Hitlerites? One answer is surely that critics know such charges are painful to a country largely born of the Holocaust and marked by its scars. It also grabs attention, galvanizes radicals, vents legitimate frustrations and anger, and helps demonize the enemy and, hence, justify the murder of "Zionists everywhere," as Hamas often declares in its communiques.

But I think the desire to cast the Israelis as Nazis is fueled, deep down, by the haters' need to see their own hatreds and ambitions mirrored in their enemy's actions. Hamas has an avowedly Hitlerite agenda. The only way to make such an agenda defensible is to convince yourself and others that the Israelis deserve it. Hence, Hamas and its allies insist that when they aim rockets at grade schools and playgrounds, they are resisting the "new Nazis." It brings to mind Huey Long's reported prophecy that if fascism ever came to America, it would be called anti-fascism. Well, with Hamas, Hitlerism comes to the Middle East wearing the mask of anti-Hitlerism.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
Jonah Goldberg is editor-at-large of National Review Online.
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Be the first to read Jonah Goldberg's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.
The contrast is clear

Conservatives support Israel, a Democracy.

Liberals support Hamas, the facists.

....................
----The fascist American ruling war criminal corpotocracy is comparable to the Hitler-like Hamas; except that America commits mass murder on Hitler levels!----

I hope this is parody. I'd like to think people this stupid are incapable of using a computer.

From a link I found on TH [hat tip Dave Perkins].....

"May God exterminate Hamas!" screamed the woman in crystal-clear understanding that the terrorist band's reckless, inhuman actions had brought death to her child."

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2009/01/06/2009-01-06_f rom_her_lips_to_gods_ear_the_fury_of_a_.html


emptyrius
And were does America do this, have you been to a war zone, have you actually seen what you refer to.

I think not so why don’t you take your high morals and join the Military, or just grow up.

More Loathing of America
and our allies brought on by the MSM.
CNN reported in a radio report Monday that Israel had rammed a ship that was trying to run the blockade in an attack that was totally unprovoked.
What?
Until the liberals and their propagandist media get their stories straight and stop twisting them to suit their purpose our country will have useful idiots who swallow this drivel for years to come.....and they vote.

Hamas are similar to Nazis
If the shoe was on the other foot and it was Israel who went to bed and woke every morning with nothing but the destruction of Hamas on their minds, then the protesters and the professors could make a case. Until that happens, Hamas is stuck with being closer to the Nazis then Israeli's are. Don't take anyone's words for it. The actions of Hamas are proof of it. Where's the growth of the Palestinians under Hamas and Fatah. There are none. Tunnels don't account for growth unless you talking about increasing your firepower in which to attack Israel. It's too difficult to think about building roads, colleges, schools, hospitals, and things in general the people would use when your thinking about nothing but war. Instead Hamas uses the people and their homes to stash weapons and the death of civilians as a means to get the United Nations and the world to condemn Israel. Israel's a free society. Think what a prize it would be if Israel fell due to the deaths and destruction caused by Hamas missiles. If anyone thinks Hamas would be happy if there were no Israeli's left think again. Hamas is a terrorist organization, their life is death and destruction. Hamas would just find someone else who needs killing even if their weren't Jew's which the protesters and the professors would justify.

Well HansFury
"And were [sic] does America do this?"

Just going by what the American government, and their major media outlet buddies tell us. Invading Afghanistan, Iraq, (bombing them back into the stone age, men, women, and children, and then sending in ground troops and private contractors to do the cleaning up and arming and training of the sell-outs), arming Somali warlords, and assorted "right-wing" "freedom-fighters" the world over . . .

Unless you are saying the American government and Fox news lies to us!

And we know a government of lawyers funded by Wall Street, and assorted lobbyists, would never lie to us . . .

Yeah.

With due respect...
... Jews have been building memorials & museums to the Holocaust for several decades, rallying around the cry 'Never forget!' They have made it the center-piece of their peoplehood & almost sacrosanct. It should not be surprising then that the enemies of Israel try to tarnish & turn it against them.
As for Palestinians, my first question is 'Why not a campaign of non-violence?' Apparently they are incapable of so much as consideration of that tactic. The only conclusion I can draw is that they are barbarous, murderous and deserve no place in the civilized order.

why did Obama
say that he would let the current president handle this problem, but was all voiced in the economy and Mumbai?

Obama- once your president you can't just shrug off something.

Jeffersonian Constitutionalist
"CONSERVATIVES SUPPORT ISRAEL, A DEMOCRACY. LIBERALS SUPPORT HAMAS, THE FACISTS.

Well said and true! Hamas and Liberalism have such a great deal in common. Perhaps the greatest is their abhorance of human progress rooted in a morality based upon the ideal that all life is a gift from God.

America: Where is the Outrage?
Under our own noses, the most evident demonstration of anti-Semitism, bigotry, racism and hatred carried on by radical Muslims is being fostered and protected by our authorities without any concern for the security of America.

Radical and activist Muslims in America are nothing different than the beasts killing children and Jews in Palestine. Under different Muslim umbrellas, radical Muslims are disseminating pure hatred and disgusting bigotry against Jewish and Americans in general.

These Muslim parasites can do this because only in America freedom of speech is so sacred that they use it for the advancement of their diabolical agenda. In the Muslim world there is not such thing as freedom of speech, religion and press.

They are so cultural retarded that cannot differentiate between civilization and barbarism. Why? Because of the ideology of Islam. I am not making any mistake, Islam is not a religion; Islam is a political ideology that surpasses Stalinism, Nazism, Maoism, and Pol Pot.

Why American society tolerates a religion that fosters the most crude bigotry and hatred against non-Muslims, particularly Israel?

One of the reasons rests on the years of continuing brainwashing in our Universities by “liberal” professors who praised communism, tyrants, totalitarian regimes and anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism.

Muslims know this and with an irrational hatred they are, without any apology, to declare the destruction of a whole nation, a whole race, the state of Israel. And all of this is happening in America. They are calling for genocide and our authorities are doing nothing.

Where is the outrage?

Imagine if neo-Nazis planned a rally shouting the physical destruction of African Americans?

Radical Muslims and bloodthirsty Palestinians are carrying on the “final solution” that Hitler could not accomplish. America NEEDS to wake up and rally in support for Israel and shout louder than the Palestinian haters.

empyrius
Obviously you have never been here in Afghanistan or Iraq. Some days I think it would be easier here if we "would" have done what you said we did. Maybe They would not be using such sofisticated equipment to kill and mame soldiers and thier own people.
When you get involved with the fix to the problem then join in. Either side, I don't care. But until you do, keep your uneducated references to yourself.
Just like a little selfish child to whine and cry but don't try to fix it yourself.

No need to focus on America
This war is on-going, all over the world. It has been going on ever since Haman decided to destroy all the Jews in ancient Persia. It continues to this day, and isn't merely a Muslim project.
Read some of the posters here.
Until we realize what the real war is, we will never be able to fight the real enemy. There is a real war being fought, and it is global.
The enemy's greatest weapon is ignorance, the ignorance of people who will not believe. In this modern age, though, few will accept the reality. You can bet your bottom dollar that the enemy is real, and his plans are real, and we (all of us) are his targets.
The Jew first, and then the Gentile.
Satan is the name with which you are most familiar. He will destroy us all, if we give him a chance. It is our doom if we fail to recognize this fact.
Don't believe in demonic possession? Just look at the pictures of "Palestinians" in the streets. Open your inner-man's eyes, and you will recognize the true enemy behind them, using these people as weapons.
This is a spiritual war, being manifested by those who give themselves over to that spirit of murderous hatred. The Muslims are the focal point, but there are many others in this world besides them who have given themselves over to it, willingly and unwittingly.
That is to say, they are willing, but they're unaware of that to which they've really submitted themselves.
I've told you, and not many will believe. A watchman is only as valuable as the level of credibility given to him by those he warns. They may never believe, but that does not excuse the watchman to neglect to warn them.
Believe it. Satan is behind all this, and we had better get into battle-position: On our knees.

CONTEXT . . . is that difficult?

It is simply a mark of infantile emotionalism to make dogmatic categorical attacks and massive generalizations against specific policies . . . like the American attack against al-Qaida and the Taliban in Afghanistan, or the removal of the Baathist regime in Iraq . . . without taking into account a MULTITUDE of circumstances which make up the CONTEXT of WHY those decisions were made. Any responsible historian understands the importance of DETAILS, and the necessity of being attentive to contradictions, subtleties and nuances in human behavior . . . especially the behavior of those who bear the responsibility for exercising political and military authority. It is just as childish and myopic to demonize the entire American government . . . and to attribute a CONSTANT stream of diabolical conspiracies to everyone in its political and military establishments . . . as it is naive and myopic to believe that conspiracies can NEVER exist.
As a former member of the radical Left myself, I know, from personal experience, that "liberals" and Leftists have JUST AS MUCH of a silly knee-jerk habit of accusing anyone even SLIGHTLY more conservative than themselves of being "fascist" . . . as Joe McCarthy had of accusing people of being "communist". And, statistically, I would be willing to bet that McCarthy, in doing so, was correct MORE OFTEN than the Leftist "fascist"-branders are now.

Myk says
"And, statistically, I would be willing to bet that McCarthy, in doing so, was correct MORE OFTEN than the Leftist "fascist"-branders are now."

How would you prove that? With a discussion in your own mind?

Or did you use one of Ann Coulter's books as your source?




Heinous, contemptible ignorance
The "protesters," and a good many of those posting their hate-filled comments here, do not even know what the word "Holocaust" means. They also do not know the true nature of Hitler, Nazi Germany, or Mussolini's fascism. They do not know, because all they know is what they read in newspapers, the Ineternet "news" sites, and 90% of television "news," all of which do not even report true news, to wit, accurate facts. None of them have ever done any meaningful research themselves. God forbid! That would mean serious study, something that the masses have never desired, despite the modern mania for everyone going to college.

Of course, the second greatest reason for their ignorant hatred is that it is not, at root, based on their ignorance, but their common wont to hate, period. Hatred of a nation, society, or ethnicity is merely the phenomenon of, elevating one's self by putting all those around them down, taken to its furthest extreme.

Keep it coming, Jonah, and your words do actually do some good, despite the mean, little detracters commenting before me--and of course after me.

Strange....
In the '50s I thought it had to be in the drinking water along both coast (above Richmond on the east coast?) with, maybe, a physical attractant for certain physical types---a DNA malfunction? It wasn't the water....just dumb susceptible people.

One big problem for Israel
is that until THE COWARDS OF HAMAS stop hiding among innocent civilians, and we know they do it deliberately so that WHEN, not if, Israel tries to do anything about it, innocent civilians WILL DIE.
Then the cowards have exactly the propaganda they wannt and can(and will) exploit that by showing the dead children on their mdia as well as our clearly anti-Israel Mainstream Media.

I haven't seen anyone mention the fact that while Isral is seeking out known and suspected members of Hamas, instead of fighting back against the Israeli military, THE COWARDS OF HAMAS ARE STILL FIRING ONLY AT ISRAELI CIVILIANS.

Israel is holding back to try to keep the collateral damage to the innocent to a munimum, but to not even attempt to do anything about Hamas is out of the question because they'll continue to fire missles at Israeli civilians whether the IDF is coming after them or not.

That's what cowards and bullies do.

Well Mike
Obviously "they" must not have "weaponry" that is too sophisticated, since you are still alive over there in Afghanistan; how is that pipeline going . . .

To pb
Jews build holocaust memorials and museums for the same reason we're building them after 9/11, to honor both the victims and the heroes. We also build them to preserve evidence of the atrocities as the voices of the deniers grow louder and more prevalent.

We rally around the cry "never again" to remind ourselves that most of the world is antisemitic. There's another article posted today commenting on increasing attacks against jews around the world. Ostentatiously in response to the Gaza war but Jew haters will use any reason to attack us. We can "never again" delude ourselves otherwise and placidly march into the ovens.

Taking over
The Zionists are taking over the world.

As a conservative Christian, I don't have a problem with that.

wrightsrong52

Listen, smart a$$,

I never said I could PROVE it, statistically. If you had your mind open, it would have been clear that I was simply stating a personal BELIEF. I understand the analytical distinction between subjective belief and objective fact. However, I do BELIEVE it . . . based on my own PERSONAL experience as a FORMER long-time member of the radical (Trotskyist) Left, and, my personal study of the McCarthy era. I finally managed to rid myself of my Marxist delusions, but I know the MIND-SET of those people as well as I know the back of my own hand.
And NO, I did not use Ann Coulter as a source. I don't even like Ann Coulter, even though, in the libertarian sense, I am a conservative.
May I suggest "Blacklisted by History", by M. Stanton Evans? It is a worthy read.
And before you jump to conclusions . . . NO, it is not the only book I've read on the subject. I have a degree in history (Mediterranean and Ottoman Empire), and I read many books from all sides of the political spectrum.

to emprically empty headed
If there was a Nobel prize for being stupid beyond belief, you would win it, hands down.

The islamists are not without their technolocially advanced weapons, and even if they were, they aren't having any trouble killing not only our troops, but as many civilians as they can find an opportunity to target. And THEY do that deliberately.

Show me ONE instance of our troops in either country DELIBERATELY AND KNOWINGLY targeting civilians.

Until you can do that, S.T.F.U!!!!

NO COMPARISON
Because Israel has the capability, IF Israels leaders were Hitler-like, Palestinians in Israel would already be incarcerated, and those in surrounding areas would have already been rounded up as well and put in camps or 'exterminated'.
Why is Right and Wrong so difficult to comprehend?
WRONG--Bombing a neighbor
RIGHT--Stopping the neighbor from bombing
WRONG--Ideology of 'wiping a Country off the map' and total extermination of its people.
RIGHT--Ideology of peace and defending the ideology of peace, its Country and its people.
WRONG--Incapable to co-exist with any other society with a different ideoloy or religion.
RIGHT--Peaceful co-existence world wide.
WRONG--Evil
RIGHT--GOOD

Comparing America and Israel
To the Nazi's is so unbelievably ignorant. Historically ignorant, emotionally childlike, and more than likely a consumer of the Daily Kook. I bet those folks get their news from the Comedy Channel. More evidence our public education system has been completely subverted by the loons.

By the way to those who think this way - if so why aren't you in a concentration camp waiting your turn at the ovens?

Manuel
You ask "Why does America tolerate" mindless ravings? Because, up to now at least, it works. Its a pity that anybody so lost in lunacy as to shout "Back to the ovens" to a Jew, gets so much visibility. Its the lunatic fringe who gets the ink and Bandwidth. Most of the democratic voters i know are nothing like the idiotic trolls who post here. The reason allowing these remarks works is because they illustrate just how mindless most of their ravings are.

what do you expect
the only friends israel has are christians, yet 70 percent of jews continue to vote for the people who hate them, promote hate against them, and wish for their demise.

Pistol
Good Morning. Good to be with you.

Speaking of "mindless ravings", we've got a real winner over on the Medved thread. "Joseph" from Illinois, aka "Joseph Goebbels From Illinois", has been on a rant about the Holocaust. Yep. You guessed it. According to Joseph it never happened.

The lunatic fringe! They're out in full force at TOWNHALL today.


What is to Come
Christians, Israelis, and Conservatives avoid the unpleasant reality that eventually they will be forced to make a choice: elimination or enslavement. Their hands are still stuck in the sand. They hope they can make the boogey man go away by closing their eyes and pulling their security blankets over their heads.

They've tried the appeasement thing and we know how that's been going. Conservatives reached across the aisle. McCain supported his political opponent, betrayed his party and performed tricks on late night TV to gain the favor of those that hated him.

Christians have been turning their checks, at both ends. Israel used the American No-Win strategy in its last war 2 years ago.

How did all this nice guy stuff work out?

Feeling good about our liberties with the government we've elected? Any signs that Muslim extremists are mellowing? Considering giving up your guns?

The Nazis were collectivists. Many of Hitler's insiders were former communists who realized the goals of the two parties were identical: consolidation of power by the state and a ban on individual freedoms. Such is the case with the democratic party and their Islamic allies overseas.

Both will have to be defeated with total war. We delude ourselves thinking our domestic Nazis will somehow embrace the notion of individual freedoms, or that Islamists will adopt a moderate approach. Both groups will have to be killed off lie any disease that threatens humanity.

When the communists have totally wrecked out economy so that suburban Americans loose their big TVs, American Idol, over abundance of food, cheap beer, and their jobs, they will be more receptive to reality and the need to go on the offense.

We're not there yet, but we will be, Allah be praised.

Well
In times of war there are no civilians! Anyways “collateral” casualties are apart of war. Yet as far as Kassam missiles, suicide bombers, or IEDs are concerned, I will take our "technolocially [sic] advanced weapons" over “the Islamists” every day of the week!

I never said our troops deliberately and knowingly targeted civilians. And I never even said the American air force has deliberately bombed weddings or schoolhouses, accidents happen, that is war.

Charlie
Osama bin laden was the brains behind 9/11, and since he was associated with the Taliban government, perhaps we were justified in invading Afghanistan to go after him. He certainly was not going to flee to Iraq b/c Saddam would have handed his head to us on a platter, yet the powers that be in Washington D.C. had other designs, and we became embroiled in a war of choice in Iraq, whose proportionality blows any redefining of “just war theory” away, and has also severely hampered our capabilities in bringing Osama to justice, and now in all probability Osama is simply kicking back in Pakistan plotting yet another attack. Now Pakistan has to endure American airstrikes and special ops in their territory, and eventually they shall tire of our forays into their sovereign nation . . .

And all the while we simply needed to bring Osama and his associates to justice.

So now we have a three-front war, that is economically bleeding us to death, and Russia and China are doing what?!? Waiting . . .

WOW!
Some real and pure stupidity, hatred and bigotry posted here.

Liberals supporting Hamas is akin to their support of murderers on death row. They need a cause, a reason to bleed...THEY NEED AN UNDERDOG! The trouble is their support lacks logic or morality. It is a prime example of feeling too much and thinking too little.

I find it hilarious and blatantly stupid that these idiots first deny the Holocaust, but then go onto compare the Israelis to the Nazi's. If the Holocaust never happened then there should be no comparison. They over played their hand with their mob mentality.

It seems Hamas would rather live like sewer rats and die, which is more stupidity. They don't deserve a country. With all of the money spent on weapons they could have a brand new home, brand new business, and streets paved with gold. Wonder when they will wake up to the fact that they are nothing more than pawns of the Middle East?

TC
And a happy good morning to you. I read a couple of Joseph's posts. If its of any import to anyone, my older cousins were in on the liberation of some of those camps. They wouldn't talk about it, except to say the films of the horrors could not convey the half of it.

I am a Pittsburgh product, happy here in Florida, but i go back every year for buck season.


Jonah
Thank you again for a insightful collume. I find it very sad to see my fellow country men acting so. It must be a sign of the times.
Kirk

empyrius
What part of "harboring an enemy makes you an enemy" is it that you don't understand?

Your moral relativism is amazing.

Are Arab Men Cowards?
As for the cunnard of a "Palestinian" race, there is none; all Arabs in the region are of the same heritage. Given that Arab men (most of the terrorists) use children as human shields and hide under their women's skirts we must really question their qualities as men. Until their neighbors turn on these cowards they will continue to be subject to real men and real women, the IDF, coming in to do the dirty work for them.

Hey Palestinians,
If you want the Israelis to leave you alone, then STOP FIRING ROCKETS AT THEM!!!

I mean really, Hamas is like the career criminal who whines & moans about how unfair life is because he's always getting arrested.

Enemies Of Israel Will Be Destroyed
It wasn't me that said enemies of Israel will be destroyed , it was God.

God says that Israel is the apple of his eye.

Go ahead...Poke God in his eye. He will destroy those that will go against Iseael in the "Valley Of Decision", Some call it "Armegeddon."

Don't the jews call it Hutzpah?
The gall of islamic terrorists (and their knee-jerk american fellow travellers)...who constantly call for the elimination of Israel and (by inference) extermination of jews...to refer to the Israelis as nazis! Pure gall! The pot calling the kettle black.

Fact is, the terms "nazi" and "fascist" have become nothing more than generic pejoratives as used by the anti-american Left. Most of these people don't really even know what the words mean (Roseann Barr for example recently referred to Israel as a "nazi state"). It's the Left that is intolerant, agressive bordering on violent, and willing to trash constitutional projections in order to achieve their utopian dreams.

If fascism ever comes to america it will come from the Left.

ANTI-ISRAEL, ANTI-AMERICA
Dear Blind Ones,

Do you not believe that a country has the right to defend itself?

Do you not believe that people have the right to respond to agression?

Do you not believe that the "weak" is not always the "right"?

WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE?

YOU BELIEVE THE LEFT-WING PERVERT PRESS.

YOU BELIEVE THAT HAMAS ARE DECENT PEOPLE JUST TRYING TO MAKE A LIVING.

YOU BELIEVE THE WORLD TRADE CENTER WAS BOMBED BY GEORGE BUSH.

THEREFORE, YOU HAVE NO BELIEFS.

YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE.

YOU HAVE NO INTEGRITY.

YOU HAVE NO MIND.

READ A BOOK.

ROWDY BOOTS

Wait A Minute!
Didn't Palestinians dance in the streets after 9/11?

And now they are victims ? Come on! When you agitate people by constantly sending rockets and "killing" their people , sooner or later they will fight back unless they are weak, useless Liberals that still blame the US for 9/11.

Question:
Of all the violence going on in the world at the moment, why does an action by Israel against crazies in the Gaza area gain so much outraged writing and whining by conservative columnists?
The fact must be pointed out again and again -- support or lack thereof for Israel has NOTHING to do with conservatism.



Liberals are victims to, so be sensitive
The victimization mentality is a typical Liberal mindset regardless of where Liberals reside.
For reasons only known to Liberals they have a penchant for championing, murderous dictators, thugs, rapists, murders, crack dealers, child molesters, and various assorted perverts as victims of they're surroundings and or upbringing.
Saddam Hussein feeds thousands of hapless Iraqi citizens into commercial wood chippers, and major media celebrates his birthday as a newsworthy event.
Hammas fires rocket after rocket into Israel and hits a unoccupied Kindergarten school and Israel gets painted as the evil aggressor.
The only reason that I can come up with for this convoluted rational by Liberals is, it gives Liberals a reason to exist, and thrive. But we must remember, Liberals don't have to take any responsibility for this way of thinking because after all.. it's not their fault, Liberals are just victims of society and a traumatic upbringing.

Israel Should Destroy Gaza
before Obama is inaugurated. They will get no support from his administration. Hamas is illegitimate - it staged a coup in Gaza and has been terrorizing Jews since. Since Fatah rightfully won the election but can do nothing to stop Hamas, in fact, Hamas has sought out and killed Fatah members, Israel is the only way to stop them. Israel should never sign any peace treaty acknowledging Hamas as legitimate.

Hamas is sponsored by Iran. It is a terrorist organization. I hope Israelis kill all of them.

I would also say that Europe - read this Mr. Sarkhozy - has its hands full of debut terrorists if you read today's news. Look at the terrorism being commited by Muslims against Jews, bombing synagogues. When is Europe going to grow a spine or a set and start defending itself and its culture? As per usual, it will wait for Americans to come to its rescue.

The Horrors We Would Have Been Spared!
At the expense of seeming totally inhuman and barbaric (such as Hamas and the suicide-bombing Israel-hating Palestinians, perhaps?), I have to callously stress the fact, that had Israel long ago indeed wiped the Palestinians off the face of the planet (even as the Palestinians vehemently wish to do to the Israelites!) the world would have been spared much grief, needless bloodshed, and carnage!

Had Israel wiped these vermins off the face of the earth, there would have never been a massacre of innocent athletes in 1972 in Munich or hijacking of airplanes, Lebanon would not have been ripped asunder by civil war and strife and would still be today the once proud and independent cosmopolitan "Paris" of the Levant, Jordan would have never had to struggle for its very existence through "Black September" (with the very selfsame ingrate Palestinians it had welcomed and offered refuge and sanctuary to in brotherhood!), the attacks on our Embassies in Africa, on the USS Cole, and 9/11 would have never been, there would be no War On Terror, and we would not be now fighting these Islamist rabid dogs sons of bitches in Afghanistan and Iraq... even now!

You may even say Israel has done the world wrong, with its "scruples," in not having extirpated this Palestinian cancer that is slowly consuming the world from the face of the earth...once for all!

If it were all the Palestinians - every man, woman, and child - who were now but ashes in the ovens they so desire for the Jews, the world would be a much more peaceful and happier place!

Amen!


This essentially is a war.........

against the Hebrew God Himself......little people like the woman in Ft. Lauderdale will face this fact someday.....

""Go back to the oven! You need a big oven, that's what you need!"

hateful spew indeed..........


RW
You are right there is nothing fundamental about Conservative Principles that automatically makes you pro-israel and not all conservatives are. But what makes this an issue of how the far left behaves.

The far left which is so anti american cannot seem to be able to place any blame on anyone who they see as an ethnic minority. While Israel is certainly not perfect, it has in the last few decades been willing to go further than any nation in brokering a Peace Deal.

Here in the West the left talks about peace and the plight of the Palistinians, but that is not what goes on in the middle east. In the middle east it is death to Israel, Death to the US.

Nearly 60 years later the Muslims are replaying the old agenda that caused this mess in the first place. This is not about land or even the plight of Palistinians. If that were the case they would have been resettled a long time ago on the vast arab lands. And as to Suffering, it seems that Araba often suffer at the hands of other arabs with little reaction from the arab street.

No this is about a sick code of honor. The very existence of Israel is an insult to arabs and the Palistinians are simply the created poster child for that anger. Pawns if you will in a struggle between East and West.

By electing Hamas after the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza was a clear sign the people of Gaza were not ready to end their suffering if it meant giving up the dream of ultimate conquest.


FLAWED ARGUMENTS
I pray that Israel takes out these war criminals and can live without having rockets rained on them with impunity. Israel, according to much of the world, should tolerate missile attacks against civilians and just suck it up. I believe the concept is that this is the way that it should be because they are Jews. Good Jews take beatings, not. I was listening to Pat Buchanan (alleged conservative) who, in my opinion, is a Jew hater. He was using the proportionate response theory commenting that the Jews are responding disproportionately because of the number of civilians getting killed. He completely evaded the fact that this street fight is over terrorist using lethal missiles against civlians. If Canada fired one missile into the US and only hit a building would we tolerate that? If we would not why should the Jews (Israelis)? We need understand that if the Muslim whackos are successful at beating the Israelis they will attempt to exteriminate them. Then comes the rest of Jewry. Some may say that this cannot happen but some would have said 9/11 was not possible. Keep in mind that we Americans are on the favorite hit list of the terrorists and the terrorists are not amongst us. When the first true American born suicide murderer takes out a target that will really identify the problem.

Please

Lets not use Nazi terminology when discussing the Palestinians. Hitler and Himmler often used the words "vermin" to describe the Jews.

".. We had the moral right, we had the duty to our people, to destroy this people which wanted to destroy us."

"We, Germans, who are the only people in the world who have a decent attitude towards animals, will also assume a decent attitude towards these human animals."

Hinrich Himmler

Just appalling!


Former McCain-Palin campaign spokesman and current Weekly Standard editor Michael Goldfarb notes that Israel, a couple of days ago, dropped a 2,000-pound bomb on a Gazan home which killed a top Hamas leader . . . in addition to 18 others, including his four wives and nine of his children. About the killing of those innocent civilians, Goldfarb writes


"The fight against Islamic radicals always seems to come around to whether or not they can, in fact, be deterred, because it's not clear that they are rational, at least not like us. But to wipe out a man's entire family, it's hard to imagine that doesn't give his colleagues at least a moment's pause. Perhaps it will make the leadership of Hamas rethink the wisdom of sparking an open confrontation with Israel under the current conditions.

Peace will not come soon
Peace will not come soon. Israel will continue to have to live with periodic rocket attacks every so often and the Palistinains will continue to live like dirt, breeding more children and more hatred.

This is not about Israel and the Palistians it is about a struggle between East and West. If Isreal did not exist the same struggle would have been about spain which the muslims would claim had been illegally occupied since 1492.

You can write just about any vile thing in an Arab Newspaper except to suggest that Israel in anyway has a right to exist or that the road to peace is co-existence. This will get your killed. Arabs killing arabs is not even news on the middle east, it happens so often or hornor killings no big deal. But let some cartoon appear in a Danish Newspaper and you get riots.

Muslins believe that their religion is the word of the true god and yet the reality is that will all that oil money their sociaties are stangnant. Arabs with oil money invest in the west, not in the middle east because who would want to build a factory in a place that might get blown up over some tribal dispute.

With all of the great history and culture in the region there are very few tourists. Who wants to die on vacation. There will be no peace with Israel or the West until the arab countries enter the 21st century. GWB believed that power of democracy would make that happen. He was wrong what you need first is a rule of law and respect for minorities. (Political, Ethinic, and Religious.

Until you have that they will continue to be backward and violent. No peace, no Prosperity.


JM
"GWB believed that power of democracy would make that happen. "

Do you have any facts to prove this? It sounds nice but belies reality. Here are his opening words on Israel and Palistinians.

"The Bush White House holds its first National Security Council meeting. "..That’s why we’re in trouble. If the two sides don’t want peace, there’s no way we can force them. I don’t see much we can do over there at this point. I think it’s time to pull out of the situation.… We’re going to correct the imbalance of the previous administration on the Mideast conflict. We’re going to tilt it back towards Israel.” His view is that the Israeli government, currently headed by Ariel Sharon, should be left alone to deal as it sees fit with the Palestinians. “I’m not going to go by past reputations when it comes to Sharon. I’m going to take him at face value. We’ll work on a relationship based on how things go.” Justifying his position, he recalls a recent trip he took to Israel with the Republican Jewish Coalition. “We flew over the Palestinian camps. Looked real bad down there.… I don’t see much we can do over there at this point.” Secretary of State Colin Powell, surprised by Bush’s intended policy towards the 50-year old Israeli-Palestinian conflict, objects.

According to Secretary of the Treasury Paul O’Neil, Powell “stresse[s] that a pullback by the United States would unleash Sharon and the Israeli army When Powell warns the president that the “consequences of that [policy] could be dire, especially for the Palestinians,”

Bush shrugs. “Sometimes a show of strength by one side can really clarify things,”

Hey Taft
Why was that coward Hamas leader hiding behind his family?

Richard #38
Well said and AMEN! Our most effective weapon is on our knees and we had better start practicing because God is going to take U.S. to the woodshed..2 Chronicles 7:14..we cannot afford to not pray for U.S. and Israel.

Mike Thank you for your service, know that our prayers are with you. Psalm 91 is the one I pray daily for my son and grandson. And one more thing, scripture says something about throwing pearls before swine..Empyrius is a nincompoop who is too cowardly to do anything but slam you and all the others giving him the
right to slobber his lies, something he would deny others. He can slam the military for
"killing" civilian women and children with bombs but is very silent on the American holocaust..the murder of 50 million and counting innocent unborn babies and surviving
abortion victims. He's not worth your time.

aggie

I'm not for Hamas.

Jeffersonian Constitutionalist
Some conservatives don't support Israel--Pat Buchanan ring a bell? And might I remind you that the Republic of South Africa was a democracy too--for the whites. Not very democratic in the occupied territories, at least not for the Palestinians.

I wonder. Do you support Israel's sale of the PALECON Radar system to China? Or helping it develop the J10 which would upgrade the PLAAF's fighter force from the equivalent of the F4 to a early F16. How about sharing information on the Patriot system? Helping China's cruise missile program? Selling the Python IIIs?

Some "conservatives" see Israel in its true light.


Growth
"Where's the growth of the Palestinians under Hamas and Fatah."

In a country the size of DC and packed in as the 6th most dense country on earth, crushing poverty and restrictions of movements and the like by Israel that is not dissimilar to the pass laws in old South Africa, let's see how well you'd do under such conditions.

Who are the real Nazis?
The shouts and signs you mentioned are nothing compared to those used in San Francisco by the Palestinians who were demonstrating against the Israeli-Hamas conflict.

Here are some of the Arabic slogans which were written on signs carried by the San Francisco demonstrators:

"Itbach al Yahud" (slaughter he Jews), "Falastin balad'na w'al Yahud qalab'na" (Palestine is our land and the Jews are our dogs), "ba ruh, ba dam, nafdeek ya Falastin" (with our soul, with our blood, we will cleanse you oh Palestine), "al mawt al Yahud" (death to the Jews).

How is them apples?

PB
"Why not a campaign of non-violence?" Some have. But if your family was driven off land your family had been on for generations and forced into refugee camps in the West Bank in 1948, I doubt many of you would want to take the Gandhi option.

Jeffersonian Constitutionalist
Well said Jeffersonian ... it always boils down to whoever the conservatives support, the liberals support the opposite. Is it out of spite or pure stupidity? What are you liberals thinking?

Islam's ties with Nazism
(*) In 1936, Haj-amin Husseini (who had been amnestied for his incitement of Nabi Musa Riots of 1929, and then appointed as Mufti of Jerusalem) signed a blood-covenant with Adolf Hitler. During WW2, Husseini actively recruited Muslims (largely Albanians, Kosovars and Bosnians) for the SS; post-WW2, he returned to Jerusalem (after a failure of communications between Yugoslavia and France allowed him to escape from jail) and vowed to "complete Hitler's unfinished job". Fatah and Hamas both still hold this view as sacred.
(*) Alois Brunner, a Nazi war-criminal, hid in Syria and Egypt post-WW2

And (coincidental) similarity with Nazis of post-WW2 Islamic governments is their propensity towards democide/genocide, even of co-religionists:
(*) 1971 "Operation Searchlight" where 3.5 million (then) East Pakistani Bengalis (including over 2.3 million Muslims--a two-thirds proportion) were murdered by Punjabis and mohajirs of Pakistan's army as well as Bihari (identical to mohajir, but migrated to East--instead of West--Pakistan at Partition) goonda-militias
(*) Current situation (started 2003, ongoing) in Darfur, where over 450,000 African Muslims (Fur, Daza, Zaghawa, ...) have been murdered by Khartoum's "Arab" army troops and goonda-militias ("Janjaweed")
(*) 11-year goondacracy of Pakistan's Zia ul-Haq, an unremorseful 1971-war-criminal--according to MRD ("Movement for Restoration of Democracy"--rather quaint, since Pakistan had never experienced democracy since 1951/10/16) leader Ghulam Jatoi, over half-million (almost cent-percent Muslim) Pakistanis murdered by army troops
(*) Hafiz al-Assad's operations against non-Alevis in Syria
(*) Saddam Hussein's operations against Kurds (Halabja a known example) and Marsh Arabs
(*) Khomeini regime's 1988 massacre of over 20,000 political prisoners

svpallava
I'm on way to work but wanted to say one thing. Yes, the Nazis propagandized and recruited many Muslims. But so did our allies; we had muslims fighting for us, and the Nazis were pretty scared of them.

Also, it was only in some regions the Nazis sent their propagandists.


Conservativeman wrote:
"Hammas fires rocket after rocket into Israel and hits a unoccupied Kindergarten school and Israel gets painted as the evil aggressor."

And it's not as though Hamas "knew" the kindergarten school was unoccupied and thus fair game for a rocket attack. They probably figured it was fully occuppied and that is why they aimed for it. The most likely reason for the school being empty was probably because of the rocket attacks which had been escalating over the past few weeks.

If Saddam was still around, do you think his government would be working with Hamas to provide "ballistic missiles" which would be more accurate at finding their intended targets? How deeply is Iran involved in this escapade? Did Hamas (and Iran) time this to coincide with Barack taking office soon and Bush being a lame duck President? Do they assume that Obama will be more sympathetic to their cause and that this will benefit them in their struggle to wipe out Israel?

Holocaust revision/Muslim terrorists
At the Ft. Lauderdale Islamic incursion, a young Muslim woman spouting hate speech made a mistake: She actually acknowledged the Holocaust by ranting "Go back to the ovens, you need a bigger oven!" The terrorists have long asserted that we Jews have made the whole thing up.
Some much for believing their own lies....

What if Hamas/Hezbollah were to win
Israel faces a dual threat right now with Hezbollah to its North and Gaza on its doorstep. Both Hamas and Hezbollah are armed with sophisticated Iranian weapons capable of doing serious damage to Israel should they choose to attack Israel simultaneously.

So what would happen if Hamas and Hezbollah were successful in doing such damage to Israel that it could not recover? Would the world rejoice? Would there finally be peace and prosperity in Palestine and Gaza? Would Egypt graciously open its borders and welcome Palestinians with open arms?

Or ... would the once prosperous region that was Israel become the next base of operations for a militant Islam intent on destroying western civilization. You can argue the academic points of that question if you must but a quick study of the track record of every Middle Eastern region to be under strict Islamic control speaks for itself.

But then, even the facts don't seem to hold much sway over the apologist mentality that permeates the liberal mind.

All you need to know.
Here is all you need to know about the Israel/Hamas conflict:

When Israel lauches a rocket, and the result is innocent people are killed, the Israelis call that "collateral damage".

When Hamas launches a rocket, and the result is innocent people are killed, Hamas calls that "direct hit".

Nuff said.

Akagi wrote:
"'Why not a campaign of non-violence?' Some have. But if your family was driven off land your family had been on for generations and forced into refugee camps in the West Bank in 1948, I doubt many of you would want to take the Gandhi option."

History is full of struggles where people were driven of their land and forced into refugee camps, reservations, or other lands. Take our own native Americans. I haven't seen a rocket fired out of a reservation and into a nearby town or city for some time. In fact, what they have done is to build casinos and "legally" take away the white man's money. This has proven to be far more effective for them than had they been launching rocket attacks at the pale faces settlements.

Besides, the Palestinians were not the original owners of said property either. They did happen to be the current residents when Israel was formed, that much is true.

I wonder what would happen to Gaza if Hamas declared: We are changing course and accepting Israel as a legitimate nation. Since Hamas' charter was the destruction of Israel, Hamas no longer has a reason to exist and will be disbanded. This will put an end to terrorist attacks conducted from Gaza towards Israel. We hope this bold move will entice Israel to supply Gaza with some aid and allow free trade across our borders. Any Palestinian who is caught planning, attempting, or carrying out, terrorist activities agains Israel will be dealt with swiftly and severely."

Do you think the Israelis would be a little more willing to help out the people in Gaza? Maybe not, but I think they would be.

Howie
Howie
Location: TX
Reply # 8
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 10:39 AM EST Who are the real Nazis?

Howie......all protests from within the US....

Gee....we are a great country aren't we??

I dont quite understand
the point of this article. I've never heard the comparison of the Israelis to the Nazis, but I don't doubt that it is used. I do wonder why you would give them the credibility of penning a column in response. Anybody with a lick of common sense or a very shallow history of WWII knows that its a crock. Do you really feel you need to explain to conservatives that Israel is not committing genocide? You must have some very stupid and/or ignorant readers to have to explain the obvious to them.

I'm so sacred
"It wasn't me that said enemies of Israel will be destroyed , it was God.

God says that Israel is the apple of his eye.

Go ahead...Poke God in his eye. He will destroy those that will go against Iseael in the "Valley Of Decision", Some call it "Armegeddon."

Blah blah blah. So you say and your god. See Rome lasted what some 400 years after it "destroyed" Israel and about nearly 1000 years after that in the east. Yes, Rome (the empire) was destroyed, but 1300 years after it took out Israel--God sure takes his time doesn't he? Of course everything ends sooner or later with ot without some god's help, the US wouldn't even be considered an especially long dynasty in China. You expect the US to last forever? As a student of history, I don't. It may, but the odds are against it and it will fall quite nicely without any help from any supernatural beings.


Jeffersonian Constitutionalist
Conservatives support Israel, a Democracy.

Liberals support Hamas, the facists.


OR

Conservatives want to understand the whole story and will dig for both sides of the argument.
Liberals read liberal newspapers, watch the old 3 media outlets....then form their own opinions as fact.......

OR
Liberals are always in it for the "poor, unfortunate, victims of circumstance"

OR
you get the picture.............

wrongsrong52 #14: re McCarthy was correc

MORE OFTEN....

wrong's response, "Or did you use one of Ann Coulter's books as your source?"

Actually, not a bad diversionary attempt. But yes, as a matter of fact... Try "Treason" where Coulter has 46 PAGES of notes and annotations of sources and FACTS.

You might want to try reading some actual FACT BASED and RESEARCHED material, now and then. No telling what you'll LEARN! :-)

Unless, of course, you prefer to run around with your hands over your ears, shouting, "La la la la.... I can't hear you. "La la la la.... I can't hear you. "La la la la.... I can't hear you. "

svpallava
The Nazis also supported Zionism too, does that make the Israelis Nazis as well?

Looks like you missed a keyword Taft
I did specify the word "coincidental" similarity between Islamic rule and Nazism.

Also, you stated " Yes, the Nazis propagandized and recruited many Muslims. But so did our allies; we had muslims fighting for us, and the Nazis were pretty scared of them."

Note that there was little propagandisation required here, as most of the Allied Muslims were from South Asia as British-Indian Army troops and officers (albeit few promoted above Major prior to 1945).

More notes:
(*) "Operation Searchlight" was ordered by one of these Allied Muslims, Yahya Khan (graduated class-of-37 from Dehra Dun) and implemented by three others (Tikka Khan, class-of-40; Amir Abdullah Khan Niazi, class-of-38; Rao Farman Ali, class-of-42)
(*) Zia graduated class-of-45 from Dehra Dun

sdf
Man....you are batting a thousand at missing the point.

Go tend to your sheep.......

One more factoid for Taft
Guess where the idea for Hitler's "yellow star" ID'ing of Jews came from--Haj-amin Husseini!

Time for Israel to get rid of Gaza
This is the reason why General Dwight D. Eisenhower,United States Army ETO Commander ordered our US Army photographers to photograph all the murderous acts by the Nazis for history because in his own words " some SOB will say it never happened"
Thank you, President Eisenhower.


Birds of a feather
I'm with the other reader from Alabama - Why is it neccessary to explain the obvious - Most half way intelligent people realize that Hamas and the Arabic biased news media are trying to peddle a load of crap!

Joel
"History is full of struggles where people were driven of their land and forced into refugee camps, reservations, or other lands. Take our own native Americans. I haven't seen a rocket fired out of a reservation and into a nearby town or city for some time. In fact, what they have done is to build casinos and "legally" take away the white man's money. This has proven to be far more effective for them than had they been launching rocket attacks at the pale faces settlements.

Besides, the Palestinians were not the original owners of said property either. They did happen to be the current residents when Israel was formed, that much is true."

Like me to remind you the many many Indian Wars the US fought from say 1800 until the 1890s?

And many of the Indians were not the original "owners" either--e.g. the Apaches, the Navajo, the Sioux in much of Nebraska, etc.


Ignorant Masses
Part of the problem is a lack of interest in and knowledge of history. Most people these days appear to get their education in history from Hollywood and teachers who have a political axe to grind. How many of our young voters know what actually happened in WW2? How many of them know what a Nazi or a fascist is? As shown in the last Presidential election many do not even seem to know what socialism and communism are.

They have grown up hearing conservatives called Nazis and fascists and hearing anyone who opposes socialism or communism being treated as ignorant liars, rednecks and bigots. For those with weak minds the conclusion is obvious; conservatives are a continuation of fascism, while socialism and communism are fine. We desperately need to teach the coming generations how to evaluate what they are being told and how to check the facts for themselves.

Also
It wasn't Hitler who recruited Husseini, but Husseini who approached Hitler to help him in ambition to be Sultan (he wasn't satisfied with Mufti--for which many Arabs in Egypt and Syria considered him unfit due to lack of scholarship--to which the British had appointed him).

This is so reprehensible, it's beyond...

description.

Those reprehensible arab/muslims should be sent home...out of the USA. Make them take their irrational hatred home, wherever their "home" is, because it should no longer be the USA.

Visa? Too bad! Visa revoked!
Green Card? Too bad! Green Card revoked!
Citizen? Too bad! Citizenship revoked!


OF COURSE, this will NEVER HAPPEN since we have a pres-elect who is all for "open borders," let everybody and anybody in, and who has stated that he will "stand with the muslims...."

Tom Trento's video:
http://beltwayblips.dailyradar.com/video/pro_hamas_demonstr ation/

As of Jan. 20, 2009, we will be officially "sca-roood!

sdf #77: Oh puh-lease!

Are you just an intellectually limited liberal, or insufferably stupid, or certifiably crazy?

You actually think for a split second that al franken... I repeat, al franken, can be taken with any seriousness at all?

You mean, al franken who claims to have won the MI Senate seat with MORE votes than they had registered voters, and MORE votes than were actually cast? THAT al franken?

If you do, there is no question, the answer to my question, are you intellectually limited liberal, or insufferably stupid, or certifiably crazy? is, "ALL of the above!"

NAZI'S:
Right now, these are the real nazi's: http://nfpa.typepad.com/firesafecigarettes/

but there's some thing that may be able to be done about it:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/repeal-fire-safe-cigarette -laws

Please help. Thank you,
Thad Bouchelle

sdf
Too funny dear sheepherder..........

Quoting a franken book to dispute Coulter......

You do realize that he is the goofiest card in the deck, don't you?? No...you don't..


what no holocaust
And if not that, how about this is just a little self defense after all they have been getting attacked by hamas rockets and other weapons for how many years?
For those of you that don’t believe in the fact that the holocaust happened then you should talk to (while you still can) some of the few remaining WWII veterans of the war in Europe that took part in the liberating of the POW’s and other prisoners from the camps like (Auschwitz, Dachau, Buchenwald, Ohrdruf forced labor camp). These places were nothing but death camps, where you could be worked to death due to bad medical treatment or just plain lack of food. Then of course you could just be led to the gas chambers or marched into a ditch and shot. But please don’t take my word for it ask a veteran that was there. My father has told us about it and shown us pictures of what it looked like. So you believe what you choose, but I’m going to believe the men that I have had the pleasure of knowing that where there.
Israel on the other hand is just saying enough is enough and doing what is necessary to defend its country and its people.
PS: Dad was in the 3rd Army and was awarded the bronze star with clusters among other medals.

Anne in PA
That would be the MN senate seat.

A MI senate seat would mean that (since I just moved to MI) that Franken would be a Michigan Senator.......which would mean that 2 months from now.......Franken would have an unfortunate hunting accident while he was hunting with Ted Nugent......

Viva la Ted!!!

Anne
"Visa? Too bad! Visa revoked!
Green Card? Too bad! Green Card revoked!
Citizen? Too bad! Citizenship revoked!"

What a fool you are. First, citizenship. Read Afroyim v. Rusk (1967) some time. The key part of the ruling is US citizenship can not be taken away without consent. Taking away citizenship based on ones religion or protesting would be unconstitutional. Read the 1st Amendment some time. Free exercise thereof, redress of grievances...

Permanent residents--what grounds would you revoke their status? Their religion...protesting. The First Amendment protects them as well.

Non-permanent residents, but holding a valid visa. Revoke visas due to their religion? Again, it would be unconstitutional. As the courts have ruled over and over, the US constitution applies to aliens as well.

And people call me UnAmerican.

sdf
The problem with your and Al Franken's specious argument is there are times when Ann Coulter will act as a satirist and make a derogatory comment about someone (reporter or otherwise) using humor. These types of things don't need to be based soley in fact because they represent her opinion of someone based on her experience.

Then there are the times when she is making an actual assertion about the person that needs to be backed up by facts. That is where she uses the 40 pages of reference to back up the point.

Have read Al Franken's book it is also riddled with lies or exaggerations, which is fine since he is also acting in the capacity of a satirist. The difference I find is that while the media celebrate Franken as a brilliant satirist, they condemn Coulter as mean spirited based soley on the fact that the media agrees with Franken. If you have read anything by Al Franken you would at the very least realize he is AT least as mean spirited as Ann Coulter.

Now, as to the substance, the historical facts back up Israel. Hamas is a terrorist organization.

Anne
"Are you just an intellectually limited liberal, or insufferably stupid, or certifiably crazy?"

Pretty much blows up your "I don't engage in personal attacks unless attacked first" theory out of the water don't you think? But of course to you there are no such thing as personal attacks against those you aren't in bed with--ideologically speaking.

ulrich s.
The fact that the liberal media gives credence to the Islamofacist leaders by broadcasting and printing their obvious idiotic statements is one of the reasons why articles like this have to be printed.

Give it another 10 years or so, and when the WWII vets and actual holocaust survivors have all passed away, the Liberal / Islamofacist denier machine will kick into high gear.


"Terrorists"
"Now, as to the substance, the historical facts back up Israel. Hamas is a terrorist organization."

So were the Zionists in pre-1948 Palestine.

Money quote for the day:
The distinction goes to our very own Lolo1:

"I find it hilarious and blatantly stupid that these idiots first deny the Holocaust, but then go onto compare the Israelis to the Nazi's. If the Holocaust never happened then there should be no comparison. They over played their hand with their mob mentality."

Talk about Ka-BLAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

;)

Akagi wrote:
"Like me to remind you the many many Indian Wars the US fought from say 1800 until the 1890s?

And many of the Indians were not the original "owners" either--e.g. the Apaches, the Navajo, the Sioux in much of Nebraska, etc."

As to paragraph #1, I am well aware of the Indian wars that the US fought. The Arabs have also fought several wars over the past 60 years trying to drive Israel out of the Middle East. They lost everyone of them. It's time to accept that Israel is not going away and for the Palestinians so get on with leading productive lives, and let go of the hatred and violent acts fueled by such hatred. That was my point. The Indians fought hard, yes. They lost, yes. They quit reacting with violence and have become part of the civilized world. I'm sure it wasn't easy.

As to paragraph #2, who is the original owner of any land on earth? It would be very hard to discern that. My point is that continued violent acts over decades based upon the idea that your ancestors used to occupy or own some piece of land is to doom yourself to destruction eventually. Why won't the the Palestinians make peace with the Israelis? Haven't they struggled long enough under the false assumption that they'll be able to drive the jews into the sea?

YLG et al
Some deny the Holocaust and others don't. Some make claims like Hilter didn't go far enough. And in any event, no one knows the opinion of the Holocaust the woman who said "Go back to the oven! You need a big oven, that's what you need!"

Also saying the Holocaust was a "big lie" doesn't make the statement that the Israelis are the new Nazis" illogical (not saying I agree with either). You can accept the Nazis were anti-Jewish and did nasty things to them like pushing them into ghettos (which I guess is what many claim Gaza is) and still claim there was no Holocaust. For it to be illogical, you'd have to claim the Nazis were pro-Jewish and then call the Israelis the New Nazis.

Akagi
What is your point? That is like saying Christians used to wage holy wars in the crusades. Are you suggesting that Zionists stole Israel for the jews?

Agendists Spin This Foreigners Fight !

My Dad came across one of those camps and cut out some men and supplies to aid them ,but kept his column rollin',since he was chasing down enemy forces.

Agendists on both sides are attempting to rewrite history and spin their agendas.

Those Nazi camps were incidental to U.S. Operations in The ETO.Those camps had as many Non-Jewish victims as Jewish victims.

Beyond that,this Palestinian/Israeli Fight is a Foreigner Fight and The United States needs to be a reappraise how it weighs on The National Interests of The United States in The ME Region.

Joel
I agree in part, but it is not just the Palestinians, but the Israelis as well--there are nut cases and hawks on both sides. The best solution would be a multi-ethnic, multi-religious state--call it the Federation of Israel and Palestine (or visa versa--flip a coin to see who is first or play a soccer match, rock, paper, scissors--who cares)--have the flag with three stripes (black white and green and a white canton with a blue Star of David). But the Israelis want a Jewish only state and the Arabs want to see the Jews in the sea--so this is not going to be solved for a long time. In the long run though, demographics may end this as the Israeli Arabs will not too far in the distant future be the majority in Israel and soon after the political power that follows unless Israel wants to create a South Africa and deny the majority their democratic rights--and if they do that it won't end well.


..............
--------MYK: "And, statistically, I would be willing to bet that McCarthy, in doing so, was correct MORE OFTEN than the Leftist "fascist"-branders are now."

wrightsrong52: “How would you prove that? With a discussion in your own mind?”-------


wrightsrong52, considering you’re an intellectual ignoramus let me tell you wher you can find your answer of proof: Venona Papers.

..............
-----"Now, as to the substance, the historical facts back up Israel. Hamas is a terrorist organization."

Akagi: "So were the Zionists in pre-1948 Palestine."-------

No fool, the Zionists were not terrorists. They attacked British military and military installations. They did not indiscriminately murder and maim random arabs, unlike the arab pogroms towards the Jews.

Myth: Palestinians being "forced" out
I have to respond to the reference to residents of Palestine being forced out of their land. Take a history lesson, please: When Israel declared statehood, the surrounding Arab nations told their brethren in Palestine to get out because they were preparing to destroy the fledgling nation; afterwards, they could return as victors. After the defeat of the invading Arab nations, Israel offered to negotiate for the return of these former residents who had voluntarily left. Not one Arab nation was willing to negotiate with Israel as a political entity, because they refused to recognize its existence. Rather than absorb these poor people, the Arabs have let them languish as pawns in appalling conditions. While Israel extends a welcome to any Jew, anywhere in the world, not one Arab country will accept their fellow Arabs. It is also worth noting that those Arabs who have chosen to remain in Israel have full rights as citizens and probably live a better quality of life than they ever could in an Arab country.

JMind
"That is like saying Christians used to wage holy wars in the crusades."

What exactly is it that I said is like saying that?

And as for stealing, depends where you sit doesn't it? Bunch of Europeans flood your country and you are soon in a refugee camp driven off the land your family has been on for generations--yes, you can make a case for that. If the Mexicans retake the Mexican Cession. If Mexicans (as many of your claim) continue to poor into the old Mexican Cession and then manage to rip it from the US driving Anglos off the land they have had for generations, think you or they wouldn't claim it was stealing.

Yes. The Jews were on that land in the first century and the Mongols were in Poland in the 13th--should Poland become part of Mongolia? The Palestinians have no less a valid claim for the land than they do.


Akagi
I am not sure why you posted that to me, or what you wrote, since it's very convoluted.

I do not care for the opinion of anyone who wants to send people into a big oven. I simply seconded Lolo1's post. As to the rest of your post, from what I can make out, it seems rather relativistic. I would counsel you to stick to Pan-Asian history.

Akagi
I just fundamentally disagree with that assertion. The United Nations formed Israel in 1948. It occured in the same manner that most land grabs occur --- as a result of conflict (World War 2). Given your claim ("valid claims to land"), we should give all land back to the indians, all land (including Texas) back to Mexico etc etc etc all down throughout history.

The actions of the Palistinians RIGHT NOW are what I take issue with. They (meaning Hamas) purposely target civilians. Israel is not PURPOSELY targeting civilians. That is not to say collateral damage is not occuring. Also Hamas is purposely placing missle installations in residential areas to use their own citizens as human shields.

You are essentially undertaking an "intellectual exercise" to prove Hamas/Palistinians have a "right" to that land.

Shoshana
"Rather than absorb these poor people, the Arabs have let them languish as pawns in appalling conditions."

The reason why is because they don't want to aid in Israel creating facts on the ground. If they accepted them--the country that was usually suggested was Jordan--then Israel would turn around and say there is already a home for the Palestinians--Jordan. The Arabs were unwilling to enable Israel in this way and many Palestinians don't want to live in Jordan or Egypt or Syria either. If NJ became part of Mexico, would you want to live in Canada--after all, Canadians, Americans--what is the difference, you all look the same anyway? Talk the same, Just would mean Canada would get another NBA team and Hockey team and I guess the Giants and Jets would end up in the CFL (hint, there is no 4th down). On the plus side, you get much better beer.

Tim:

We agree. Funny that.

Why The Wait?
Israel should recruit all to their side and launch an all-out ASAP. Let the chips fall where they may. No more insane than what's been going on forever. There is no Palestine!!

Shoshana & Akagi
Shoshana, what you say is true and easily found in a good history book, or even on Encarta. I know an Israeli Arab who lives here in the States and he reports that he and his family (who still live there) have always been treated well and had good jobs in Israel. Most Israelis, he claims, have no problem with Arabs. They have problems with militants. There is a difference.

The solution, Akagi, is for both Hamas and Israel to stop lobbing rockets at one another, but as Hamas has lobbed about 8000 rockets into southern Israel in the last three years, it seems they are not able to keep up their end of a cease-fire. It seems rather unfair to ask Israel to put up with that sort of daily attack without retaliating while we do nothing to Hamas for their continued aggression. Yes, yes, closed borders and all that! Israel has a right to protect itself from aggression. If Gaza wants a return to normality with the ability to work in Israel and acquire goods, get rid of Hamas and stop the rocket rain. Then if Israel attacks Gaza, it' their fault, but not until the rocket attacks coming from Gaza have stopped. That's the solution! BOTH sides accept a cease-fire and actually abide by it. I don't think Hamas can do that.

Satan
Then I guess those that attacked the Cole and the Pentagon weren't either--there were military targets, correct? Glad we got that sorted out. Next time someone blows up the Pentagon, I'd expect you not to complain--it is a military target--fair game. Note also that the Zionist "terrorism" also killed innocent civilians so I guess those on board flight AA flight 77 could be seen in the same light--"Collateral damage." Can't have it both ways.

Shoshana's 13:10 post on-the-nail!
The one similar case to "Palestinians", AFAIK, is that of Biharis in Bangladesh. They left India for newly-created East Pakistan at Partition, and benefitted greatly from the declaration of Urdu (spoken as native language by Biharis and mohajirs who then constituted about 10% of entire population--as against Bengalis 55% and Punjabis 25%) as Pakistan's national language. In 1971, the Biharis willingly joined the pro-government razakars (goonda-militias) against their Bengali (somewhat reduced by then, to 53% of total Pakistan population) neighbours, who naturally wanted them to leave newly-independent Bangladesh. Initially (1972-1976), Biharis were accepted by Pakistan, but acceptance was halted in 1976 (don't know the reason, but perhaps Biharis in truncated Pakistan had really high crime-rates? After all, they did originally come from India's crimepit state) never to be resumed (even under Muzaffarpur-ancestored Musharraf) in manner analogous to Arab refusal to resettle "Palestinians".

jmind
with regard to akagi the non US citizen, sometimes his North Korean handlers give him too much info to regurgitate coherently. He doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. Just spewing forth any and all info supplied to him.

Akagi - Rules of War
If you attack another country and lose, you don't get to dictate the terms of your surrender. The Arab of Palestine had already sold about 40% of the Mandate to Zionists before WW2, when Hilter and the Mufti confiscated Zionist property and gave it back to the Arabs. The Arabs acted all shocked when they were told by the Britist they'd have to give it back. The partitioning of the Mandate was easier for the Brits than sorting out the titles since most of Hitler's records concerning Jewish property were in disarray. All-told, considering that they'd sold them the land for a fair market value, the Arab Palestinians were treated fairly in the Mandate partition. In fact, the Zionists had bought the much-better land of the West Bank, but ended up with the more difficult land. They made it flourish. When the Palestinians participated in the multiple wars against Israel, they also lost and had their land taken. Last I looked at a map, they've been given a great deal of that back, but Israel was under no obligation to give it to them. The Palestinians and their allies started the wars. Israel won. Rules of war say Israel gets to dictate the terms. They've been generous under the circumstances. If the Palestinians would stop lobby rockets at Israel, I think they'd find Israel isn't a bad neighbor.

Granite Eagle #87: Ooops! You're right..

Sorry for the typo... :-(

SOCK IT TO HAMAS NOW! AND IRAN ALSO!
HAMAS got all of Gaza--in good condition, without Israelis. They could have decided to live in peace, run the farms and country for their people's benefit. They could have used the international aid to build "Club Med" resorts, hotels, and casinos on their 25 mile long beach and prospered.
***
They elected to keep doing Nazi Germany type attacks on innocent neighbors since they couldn't win against the Israeli military. They train their children in jihad and hate--like Hitler did. There are not many "innocent" people left there--only terrorists and their enablers, and supporters.
***
The U.N. and Egypt allowed HAMAS to import their rockets, AK-47's, RPG's, explosives, and bullets through the 5 mile long Gaza / Egypt border. No decrying of the daily rocket attacks on innocent Israelis was heard.
***
Fight on to victory--peace follows victory--it does not precede it. Then take over the place and re-educate the people like the USA did after WW2 in Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. War worked well then.
***
Take the war to Iran--oil embargo after the USA achieves energy independence--if we ever do. Remove the source of the cancers spreading throughout the Mideast.
***
Shut down all Madrassahs--a 10 year prison sentence for teaching Islamic hate. Then take away U.S. citizenship and ship HAMAS supporters back to their benighted third (or fourth) world S**THOLES--we don't need them in any civilized country.
***
Rocketman

Uh Oh ! Akagi Are Agreeing !

Gotta give That Little Devil, Akagi his due !

Irgun were as much terrorists as Hamas are.

Here's a few of their operations:
June 12, 1939 A post office in Jerusalem was bombed, killing a British bomb expert trying to defuse the bombs. -
June 16, 1939 6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Jerusalem. -
June 19, 1939 20 Arabs were killed by explosives mounted on a donkey at a marketplace in Haifa. -
June 29, 1939 13 Arabs were killed in multiple shootings during one-hour period. -
June 30, 1939 An Arab was killed at a marketplace in Jerusalem. -
On the same day 2 Arabs were shot and killed in Lifta. -
July 3, 1939 An Arab was killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa. -
July 4, 1939 2 Arabs were killed in two attacks in Jerusalem. -
July 20, 1939 An Arab was killed at a train station in Jaffa. -
On the same day 6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Tel-Aviv. -
On the same day 3 Arabs were killed in Rehovot. -
August 27, 1939 2 British officers were killed by a mine in Jerusalem. -
September 27, 1944 ~150 Irgun members attacked four British police stations; unknown number of casualties [11] -
September 29, 1944 senior British police officer of the Criminal Intelligence Department assassinated in Jerusalem [11] -
July 22, 1946 King David Hotel Bombing; 91 fatalities, most civilians -- 41 Arabs, 17 Jews, and 15 British [12]

One man's Terrorist is another man's Freedom Fighter !

Akagi:
If the nutcases in Israel and Gaza were really equivalent, there would be no Palestinians left. They would have been exterminated or driven into the sea. The Israelis have plenty of power to do so, yet they pulled back from their settlements in Gaza and on the West Bank to allow the Palestinians to have some land with no Israelis living there.

If the Arabs are destined to eventually take over Israel through a political majority, what in the H-E double hockey sticks are they doing shooting rockets into Israel now and provoking more deaths on their own side? That seems really stupid. I agree with you that some of them are just pure nutcases.

Akagi #88: Can you read? Can you even

comprehend? Are you sane? Are you worried that that would INCLUDE YOU? (Now that I think about it, it wouldn't be such a bad idea!)

Can you ascertain when someone is being facetious?

But don't be so damn smug you little twit!
Check out, United States v. Reimer, 02-6286

"U.S. Citizenship Revoked for Former Nazi
Tom Perrotta" New York Law Journal, February 2, 2004

"A federal appeals court has revoked the citizenship of an 84-year-old New York resident who admitted he was a member of a Nazi firing squad in Poland that killed Jews during World War II."



Okay, okay, okay... I'll accept your apology AGAIN! But this IS getting a bit tiresome.

For aurorawatcher
Also another comparison: the Israeli Arab can be considered akin to the Indian Muslim--basically, the two groups both enjoy peace and democracy (a misquoted stat is that Muslims have a higher poverty-rate than Hindus, but when "state-adjusted" this difference disappears entirely)--in contrast to repression/oppression in Muslim/Arab countries.

High posts achieved by these minoritys:
(*) every Indian federal cabinet has included Muslims; the country's first Education Minister (not a token post) was A.K. Azad.
(*) A Telenganese Muslim, Idris Latif, was Indian Air Force Chief of Staff 1978-1981
(*) India has had three (technically four, but one was a short interim term by a VP) Muslim Presidents (while the post is largely ceremonial, Indian President can dissolve Parliament or dismiss PM)
(*) In Israel, Nazareth Christian Arab Azmi Bishara ran for PM in 1999.
(*) Raleb Majadele, Israel's CURRENT Sports/Science/Culture Minister

For UncleB @ 13:38
Shukria--you've explained nicely why Akagi posted essays recently about WW2 (Pearl Harbour, Midway, ...) where no non-groat could see any relevance thereof.

Arabs
Who cares, the Gazans deserve what they sow, they're reaping their crop. You can't kick the pit-bull without realizing it will eventually come for your throat. I have no sympathy for the residents of Gaza. You elect terrorists to govern you, you are complicit, you are NOT innocent.

What Is a Nazi?
Nazis believe that all people different from them should be exterminated or subjected as slaves.

Nazis would risk their lives to kill those they considered inferior.

Nazis would torture, rape, and kill for fun.

Nazis tested many of their toys, such as poisonous gas, on prisoners.

Nazis insisted that no one else should be allowed any part of the world.

Now take a look at the Israelis and the Hamas. Which group most closely fits the descriptions above? (And if you can say "the Israelis" with a straight face, then you have absolutely no idea of what the Muslims believe and do.)

its the same here
Its amazing that people who preach their racial superiority also complain about racism ( Loony Farrakan ). And those who complain that Jews are keeping, or have kept, them down are racially inferior. In my younger days I was bitten by the anti semitism snake and believed this crock too. It struck me one day that if jews were keeping me down then they must be superior to me and if I, scizophrenically argued, that they were controlling my life then I deserved to be led. Of course this led me out of the wood of stupidity and I started to realize that I was soley responsible for my own happiness and I have nobody else to blame. I can't blame jews, blacks, mexicans, tobacco comapnies, or evangelical christains for any bad decision I have ever made. God bless you all. Let Isreal do what it has to do to survive. They deserve it until they decide that they don't want fight anymore. I hope they they keep at it.

AW
"I think they'd find Israel isn't a bad neighbor."

Except for checkpoints throughout the occupied territories making a drive that should take 15 minutes into hours, closing the border at random times, enacting what is little better than South Africa's pass laws, Nazi-like collective punishments and on and on.

If I had a neighbor like that I'd think about moving--I suppose that is Israel's idea.

Uncle B:

The Akagi is a non-citizen routine is getting a little old, maybe you should get newer material.

John:

Perhaps you should investigate the condition of Gaza before Hamas, before Fatah. Basically Gaza is one large refugee camp--the size of DC and the 6th most densely packed country on earth. The per capita income is $600 a year ranking near the very bottom. Yeah, you could do much with that

"'Club Med' resorts, hotels, and casinos on their 25 mile long beach and prospered."

Yes. total aid for all of the PA is 200 million compared to Israel's 3 billion and much of this is just to carry on basic services. You are totally clueless about the conditions. Even if Hamas signed a non-aggression pact with Israel and lived up to it life wouldn't improve much for those living there--Gaza is basically a hell on earth.

Anne
Yes Anne. The reason why they can revoke is that former Nazis lied on their visa application (they ask you that question) and then ask you again when you apply for citizenship. He lied both times. If he had told the truth, he never would have been granted the visa or been approved for citizenship. Both the visa and citizenship were obtained by fraud and thus can be revoked.

However, you can't revoke a naturalized citizen's citizenship short of fraud which is the crux of Afroyim v. Rusk. And no, I can't tell when nutcases like you are being facetious.

svpallava:

Again, that was your pals Jim and Denise doing that. He brought it up, not me. What did Executive Order 9066 have to do with liberals being liars and cheats?


45caliber: Well said! Good points!

And what of those statements are common with the islamic mentality???

"Nazis believe that all people different from them should be exterminated or subjected as slaves."

islamics believe that all people different from them... ie "infidels" should DIE!

"Nazis would risk their lives to kill those they considered inferior."

Islamic terrorists! Suicide bombers!


"Nazis would torture, rape, and kill for fun."

islamics do the same, but added to that, they STONE rape victims.


"Nazis insisted that no one else should be allowed any part of the world."

The islamic goal is to convert the entire world to Islam.

Now take a look at the Israelis and the Hamas. Which group most closely fits the descriptions above? NOT THE ISRAELIS!


And if anyone can say "the Israelis" with or without a straight face, they're either a muslim OR a liberal.

I am no surprised ...
by the harpings of the hateful woman in Ft. Lauderdale. She is simply another example of those who only spew hate and have no real knowledge of the situation.

I am reminded of an incident that happened a few years ago when Shindler's List came out in the theatres. My husband took our son to see it. Behind them was a woman with a little girl who looked to be about 9 years old. This little girl constantly kicked my husband's seat all through the movie. Finally, my husband turned around and asked the mother to keep her child from kicking his seat and the mother was enraged.

Added to this event, everytime the "girl in the red coat" was shown on the screen, this little girl would vocalize "Die Jew, Die!"

When the movie ended, the mother poured all her Coke on my husband and stomped out with her child. The biggest problem we have with the haters in our country is that they continue to rant their hatred and breed.

For Anne @ 14:24
Indian history is replete with exactly such acts by Islamic rulers.

Another little factoid: in which other religion than Islam would propaganda be approved which states that "descendants of forced converts are heroes, while descendants of voluntary converts are cowards" (editted from ACTUAL pamphlets found on Pakistani 1971-POW's)--especially when the ethnic groups of the original forced converts have had "a historical tendency to bow before any invader", while those of the voluntary have a perennial history of rebellion and unruliness?

akagi = Arrogant twit!

"The reason why they can revoke is that former Nazis lied on their visa application..."

NOT EXACTLY! :-) Wrong again!

"Specifically, the government contends that, pursuant to section 13 of the DPA, Reimer was ineligible for a visa, because during the war he assisted the Nazis in persecution, or alternatively, because he was a member or participant in a movement hostile to the United States. See DPA § 13, 64 Stat. at 227."

Did you get that part??? Want me to repeat it?

"... because he was a member or participant in a movement hostile to the United States."



But, the POINT WAS (which you ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS MISS) is that it IS POSSIBLE! (Ooooh, perhaps YOU should start worrying! LOL)

"And no, I can't tell when nutcases like you are being facetious."

Ha ha ha ha... whose the "nutcase" now? :-)


Sorry Twit (that means you Anne)
"The court declared that Reimer's original visa, which he received under the Displaced Persons Act of 1948, was invalid. The act barred people who persecuted others because of their race, religion or national origin from receiving visas."

That is exactly what I said--he obtained his visa by fraud which meant the visa was invalid. If the visa was invalid so was his citizenship application and thus it could be revoked.

Now if you can get the Congress to bar Muslim immigration and a person who is a Muslim then lies on their visa application that they are a Muslim--then you can revoke their visas and citizenship. Good luck with that though.

Anne
Yes. I suppose the US could declare Islam a hostile force and the US could then bar entry into the US by such and those that lied on their applications could have their visas revoked and citizenship stripped, but what do you suppose the chance of that coming to pass?

Members of terrorists organizations such as Hamas are already barred and thus they could be stripped of visa status and/or citizenship for belonging to such an organization and then lying about it on your visa/citizenship applications. But you didn't say Hamas or terrorist organizations, you said Muslims.

And by the way, I could go through the streets carrying a Hamas flag chanting Al mout li Amreeka and I'd be perfectly free to so--protected by the First Amendment.

akagi blubbers:"Twit(that means you Ann)

What are you, 12yrs. old?

Let me repeat this for you ONCE AGAIN!

"... because he was a member or PARTICIPATION IN A MOVEMENT THAT WAS HOSTILE TO THE UNITED STATES."


And OF COURSE, you reacted (again inappropriately) before you read my entire post #82....

So, let me repeat THAT again for you.....

"OF COURSE, this will NEVER HAPPEN since we have a pres-elect who is all for "open borders," let everybody and anybody in, and who has stated that he will "stand with the muslims...."

As of Jan. 20, 2009, we will be officially "sca-roood!"


Now, I ask you, did you also flunk out of the Helen Thomas School of Charm?

Truth? Lies?
It amazes me how usually intelligent people would rather believe a lie and then pass it on than to recognize it for a lie. I've spoken to American soldiers who saw the camps first hand and know the grand- daughter of a survivor. Why would hundreds of thousands of people tatoo themselves with the designation of death? Why would these same people willingly lock themselves up in these camps with little food or anything else? Or why would people work themselves literally to death and accept beatings , unless they knew their lives were at stake?
If we of European decent denied the Crusades every Muslim in the world would be livid. Why then do sane men listen to the lies about the Holocaust? WWII wasn't so long ago that all the victims or the perpatrators have forgotten. The Holocaust deniers are calling everyone who liberated a camp , German records, survivors , and those who wittnessed the horror of those days liars who have conspired to dupe the world. The Muslims however, have somehow seen through these lies. How much garbage can one people swallow? As for Isreal being the "new Nazies" That's just a sick way of being as obnoxious as possible. How about a sign that says " Osama Bin Laden is a pig eating son of a Pig hearder " That's about as disgusting to a Muslim as you could get. It's also , nasty, untrue, hurtful, and inflammatory speach. Someone somewhere would believe it then the anger would spread everywhere. Like I said, even sane people will believe lies and then pass them on as truth.

No Anne
Being 12 would mean I was at least three times your mental age. The reason he was stripped of his citizenship was because HE LIED ON HIS VISA APPLICATION meaning his visa application was fradulent which in turn meant his visa was invalid as well as his citizenship application and thus his citizenship. The point that the Nazis were a movement hostile to America isn't all that Germane--it doesn't matter why the US government barred Nazis only that they were barred.

The chance that ANY president or congress would bar someone due to their membership in a mainstream religion from immigrating to the US is so remote as not to be worthy of dicussion. Better chance that Georgia will leave the Union over your mindless idea.

FYI: Check out Act 237 of the Immigration and Nationality Act--the phrase is "PARTICIPATED IN NAZI PERSECUTION, GENOCIDE, OR THE COMMISSION OF ANY ACT OF TORTURE OR EXTRAJUDICIAL KILLING. Act 237 also covers "terrorist" activities--so Hamas would be covered, Muslims would not.




Goldberg

Asks who the real Nazis are? Hamas is a bad entity but not equal to the Nazis, nor is the Hammas leadership like Germany's.

The disturbing trend that Neocons are buying into is the old Nazi tactic of killing in revenge, not just in kind but 10 fold. For every Nazi killed by the resistance, 10 innocnt people were lined up and shot, and if some big wig was killed, a whole town would pay. Here is one example;

"So at 11:30 on Saturday morning, according to both the Jerusalem Post and Ha'aretz, as well as the New York Times, 50 fighter jets and attack helicopters demolished some 40 to 50 sites in just about three minutes, maybe five. Message: do not f*ck with the Jews.

Remember, in the last 6 months, not one Jew had been harmed."

Dehumanization
The point here is that if you dehumanize anyone, even Nazis, the that same label might be put on you next.

Everyone is created in God's image, even Hitler.

Adolph was a baby once.

Anne
I think you have some sort of mental defect that keeps you from remembering what you write. Is calling me 12 a result of me calling you a twit? Do you recall this line you wrote to me some 39 minutes prior? "Subject: akagi = Arrogant twit!"

Left out author
of disgusting quote. Marty peretz

Some here have it right
Globug, Richard from FL, etc. This is THE AGES OLD WAR!!!

You want a solution? He's coming back. You laugh and say "when?". He's coming back, just as surely as he came the first time, when no one suspected. 400 years of silence from God the first time, 2000 years or more this time, but He is coming back to judge the quick and the dead.

So the solution? Accept Christ as your Lord and Savior before it's too late. When is it too late? When you die or He come's back, which ever comes first. Laugh all you want. They lauged as he died on a cross. You won't be laughing as He throws you into the eternal lake of fire. Confess. Repent. The ONLY solution.

Who Are The Real Nazis??
Reply to comments by Akagi: Are you kidding me ?? G.W.(Go To War) BUSH who lied to the American people about WEAPONS OF MASS DECEPTION!! G.W.(Go To War) BUSH who is the American Dictator who has the nerve to call Chavez, Ahmedinijad, Castro, and Assad evil dictators when he is the one who single - handedly destroyed the CONSTITUTION AND THE BILL OF RIGHTS of EVERY AMERICAN CITIZEN WITH THAT STUPID UnPATRIOT ACT!!! How DUMB do you REPUBLICAN LEMMINGS HAVE TO BE?? G.W.(Go To War)BUSH who ALONG WITH THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS SPENT MORE ON THE WAR IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN THAN ALL THE PRESIDENTS IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES!!! FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE PARTY?? WHEN DONKEYS FLY!!! STALIN, KRUSCHEV, HITLER, KHADAFI AND EVERY OTHER TYRANT WOULD LOVE TO HAVE HAD THE DICTATORIAL POWERS (PLAYING GOD) THAT G.W.(Go To War) BUSH HAS EXERCISED, WITH THE APPROVAL OF THE REPUBLICAN PARROTS LIKE ANN COULTER. RAVAGIN' SAVAGE, SLUSH LIMBAUGH, SHAWN VANITY, MIKE GALLAGHER AND ALL THE REST OF THE SO - CALLED CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH TAKING ALL YOUR FREEDOM AWAY IN THE NAME OF FIGHTING FOR YOUR AND MY FREEDOM!!!! WHAT A BUNCH OF HYPOCRITES!!!

Me
Well I guess the Jews and Muslims blowing each other to bits doesn't matter. Maybe make it all easy--build a giant stadium someplace and give all the Israelis swords and all the Palestinians swords and have them go at it--last one not hacked into fishbait wins--maybe have it on pay-for-view.


Israel's Enemies
Anti-Israeli activities are a disguise for those who hate Jewish people. A simple tactic that can be effective.

HansFury
To what post is your post number 3 referring to?

Scared little rabbits!

Crazy Mike
Not sure why you directed that post at me--care to be clear on what issue you have with what I said exactly since your post is pretty confusing. You might think of taking the caps off too.

Me a Republican myrmidon? Ask Anne about that. Anne? Do you think I am a GOP myrmidon like yourself? No. Didn't think so.

Stalin and Hitler would have loved to have the powers Bush had? Might I inform you that Stalin and Hilter had unlimited power over the state and its organs--something Bush could only dream about in his most wildest dreams. Let's take a few examples--Hilter or Stalin didn't have to concern themselves with opposition parties--there were none. Nor worry about some court issuing opinions counter to their desires. Gitmo? Under Stalin and Hitler they wouldn't be in Gitmo--they'd have been killed as soon as they were seen as no longer needed. No worry about them appealing to some court to protect their rights. Spy on their citizens? This was SOP for the regime. Bush more power than Hitler...sure...but not in this universe.

akagi
It is your irritating presence and holier than thou you are all ignorant I know it all demeanor that is getting OLD. YOU should leave.

fc
Pure BS. So if you oppose Israel selling advance weapons to China, it means you hate Jews? Same idiotic claptrap that's been pushed by the Israel firsters for years and it is total tripe. So, if Japan does something you don't like and you vocally oppose it does that make you automatically are anti-Shinto?

As I said folks......
Akagi gets all of his information from his North Korean handlers

Holocaust Deniers - Come on Down!
I thought these Israel-haters didn't think that the Holocaust ever happened? According to Amadinejad and other Islamic fundamentalists the Nazis didn't exterminate the Jews of Europe. So why, according to them, should Zionists return to the ovens if they were never in them to begin with. This is top flight thinking and indicative of why Israel is now kicking Hamas from one end of Gaza to the other.

Holocaust Deniers and Lies
When General Eisenhower first saw one of the death camps, he ordered his men to take as many pictures as they could and to make careful records of everything. His reason? He said that sooner or later someone would insist it never happened - and he wanted to make sure there was plenty of evidence to refute them.

The pictures are there. And don't tell me that they deliberately starved themselves to death or close to it just so someone could take pictures. And while 6 million Jews were killed, so were about 7 million other people, including a huge number of Gypsies.

Destiny

The killing in Gaza has nothing to do with the holocaust, but the continued subjection of the Palestinians. Its as tho the Federals had never left the South.

UncleB
You aren't all ignorant--just many of you are. You for one.

45 caliber !

The problem is that Jewish Agendists have attempted to minimize the deaths of those Non-Jewish victims of The Nazi camps and have attempted to rewrite WWII around The Holocaust,cheapening History by using it as political argument tool.




Taft
"Its as tho the Federals had never left the South."

They haven't. McPherson Barracks named for one of Sherman's chief aides who was killed during the Battle of Atlanta (and why at one time a developer in Atlanta named many of the streets after Confederate Generals (now renamed after Civil Right leaders)then from 1885 onward Fort McPherson--it is going to be closed though--nearly 150 years after the fall of Atlanta.

Uh Oh, Akagi's Right Again !

Israel illegally sold U.S. Weapons Technology to The Red Chinese,jeopardizing Taiwan and Japan.

Tim from PA - Please grow up.
Your statement really shows your ignorance. Now I'm not Jewish ok, the Jewish people have been persecuted more than any other ethnic Group on Earth from the beginning of written History, so please give it a rest. The People of Israel have been going out of the way to get along, the Palestinians just cannot accept that Israel exists at all. Israel has every right to defend itself from attack.

I address this

to the libturd population of parasites who live off the Town Hall host.

I am prompted to do this by yet again another rant that Bush lied about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. They are jubilant about this unfact (like Gore winning FL in 2000) because they hate GWB with an unreasonable passion. They have only one reason to exult and that is out of hatred for Bush and our military.

Reasonable, patriotic, compassionate people were relieved there were no WMDs used against
our troops, as Saddam had employed against the Iranians and his fellow citizens, thereby sparing us the casualties and death of our troops which could have run into the tens of thousands.

I'm glad there were no WMDs for humanitarian reasons. The libs are only glad for selfish reasons.

Bush did not lie about WMDs. He believed Saddam had them just as the upper echelons of the Clinton democratic party who are caught on tape saying the same thing long before Bush came on the scene. To deny this is akin to denying the holocaust.

Oh Yeah Robert !

My Dad led troopers from Normandy ,to Paris,to The Bulge,to The Rhine To one of those camps,where he cut out troopers,a medical officer and medical supplies to aid them ,while he moved his Mech.Recon and Ranger Command forward to chase down German Forces.
More than 70 Million people died in WWII and My Dad and his Troopers weren't there just to serve the interests of cheap Agendists,who neglect the deaths of The Non-Jewish victims of those Nazi camps and The Greater Historical Significance of WWII.

Got It Bub,Get It !

Robert
"Jewish people have been persecuted more than any other ethnic..."

Really? I am betting some Africans, Chinese and various others will dispute this claim.

Tim:

Illegal is a bit strong but they did so without the US knowledge. The US didn't know about the Python III sales until the PLAA's J8s began to buzz the US EP-3 Orion flights in the South China Sea in January of 2001. It helped China develop the J10 which was based on the Lavi which the US helped Israel develop. Then there was the PHALCON. The problem is these were either jointly developed by US and Israel or developed by Israel itself and the US thus had no legal way to stop the exports unlike if it was say a Israel F15 sold to them by the US--the US could block those sales legally and if Israel went ahead and sold them that would be illegal, but technically the China sales were legal--they hurt Taiwan security (and US, Japan security), but they were legal.

the Holocaust-deniers come out
I'm delighted to see that conservative Holocaust-deniers have surfaced here. Just when many TH readers were congratulating themselves for their love of Isreal by expressing support for the current IDF action in Gaza, the real, hard-core, old-fashioned right-wingers come out to give voice to the anti-Jewish animus that has always been part of conservatism.

Back int eh great days of conservatism in the US (the golden age of Buckley, Kirk, et.al.), American conservatives had no problem vocing the traditional conservative disdain for Jews. Buckley even admitted it in his book on anti-Semitism. "National Review" despised Israel because Israel had been created by a group of left-wing European Jews. Eventually, Buckley and Co. covered their tracks and wouldn't let butter melt in their mouths about Israel and the Jews.

So every now and then, for old times' sake, I look forward to some conservatives who haven't shifted their hatreds with the times.

akagi: The PROBLEM IS, YOU CANNOT ADMIT

when you're WRONG! (In spite of the countless times you ARE WRONG!)

"The chance that ANY president or congress would bar someone due to their membership in a mainstream religion from immigrating to the US is so remote as not to be worthy of discussion."

BINGO! YEA! HORRAH! And isn't THAT EXACTLY what I posted (#82)?

Why yes, that IS precisely what I posted (#82) before you inserted your inane comments, so let me share that with you AGAIN, for at least the SECOND or THIRD TIME.....

And I QUOTE... (copy and paste #82!)

"OF COURSE, this will NEVER HAPPEN since we have a pres-elect who is all for "open borders," let everybody and anybody in, and who has stated that he will "stand with the muslims...."

And, you will notice that "NEVER HAPPEN" was in UPPER CASE for EMPHESIS!... ***** "NEVER HAPPEN." *****

I haven't a clue how to make that clearer, even for YOU.

Obviously, you have a HUGE problem “working and playing well with others!” It’s a “personality disorder!” You are one of the most arrogant, pompous, pretentious, insolent, boorish, uncultured posters on TH. And, if that’s “offense,” TOUGH! TOO BAD! DEAL WITH IT!

Try to imagine just how “offensive” you are to most of the posters on TH.

And, if you think I’m the only one who thinks that you're insufferably arrogant, pompous, pretentious, insolent, boorish, and uncultured , TRUST me, I AM NOT… NOT BY A VERY, VERY, VERY LONG SHOT!

Sometimes facing UP to the truth is painful.

But, I've spent far too much time bothering with the likes of you. So, if you need to believe you're right, yeah, yeah, yeah, ... have at it! :-)



Gestell
I have yet to see a single post here that has denied the Holocaust. I did see that unlike what many Jews like to put forth, a post that pointed out that they were not the ONLY victims of it.

Tim pointed out that the Hamas-Israel fight was a fight between two groups of foreigners and the US shouldn't be pushed by the "Israeli agendists" into something not in the US interest. Is that denying the Holocaust?


Akagi: And YOU criticize MOI? ha ha ha h

Location: GA
Reply # 148
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 4:44 PM EST UncleB

"You aren't all ignorant--just many of you are. You for one."


Now, that was nice... really nice, wasn't it? And of course, it was a necessary post?


Remember, you really NEED to work on trying NOT to be "insufferably arrogant, pompous, pretentious, insolent, boorish, and uncultured."


Anne
No Anne, the frail little flower who can dish it out but can't take it. From you those are compliments--what do they say, boos on the road are cheers?

akagi

Something I learned about debating with Anne a long time ago, as Ike once said about McCarthy, ""I will not get in the gutter with that guy."