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Wednesday, March 11, 2009
John Stossel :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Fatal Conceit
by John Stossel
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We've been rolled again.

Sure, the economy is in bad shape -- though the late '70s and early '80s were worse in many ways, but is it true that every economist agrees that massive "stimulus" is the solution?

"A failure to act, and act now, will turn a crisis into a catastrophe," President Obama said.

If someone expresses skepticism, Obama and other political leaders suggest that economists are unanimous in believing that government spending is the only answer.

"We have a consensus that we need a big stimulus package that will jolt the economy back into shape," Obama said.

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer agreed: "Every economist from right to left, Republican, Democrat, advises that it has to be a very substantial package."

It's a lie. There was no consensus. (Anyway, a consensus doesn't mean something is true.) Finding an economist who opposed government spending as a way to fix the economy was easy. More than 350 signed a opposing the bill. You can hear some of them on "20/20" this Friday at 10 p.m.

"How is it the government is going to be able to spend a dollar in such a way that it generates a dollar or more in value?" asked George Mason University economist Peter Leeson. "A more likely possibility is that a dollar that government takes out of the private sector is a dollar the private sector doesn't have to spend."

Leeson is referring to the "broken-window" fallacy, which comes from Frederic Bastiat's story about a boy who throws a rock through a shop window. Since the shopkeeper has to buy a new window, some believe the mischief will actually stimulate the local economy. The fallacy lies in overlooking that the shopkeeper would have spent the money some other way if he didn't have to replace the window.

Every penny the government spends will first have to be borrowed from someone in the economy. So where's the stimulus?

It's also quite a conceit to believe that a few men in power are smart enough to know precisely how to spend trillions of your dollars.

"They're exploiting a minor correction in the economy. ... Markets go through corrections all the time," Lydia Ortega of San Jose State University told me.

I pointed out that people say this correction is worse -- maybe like the Depression.

"But markets need to go through this correction," she said. "What's happening now, what's making it worse, is that people don't know what's going to happen. There's so much uncertainty generated by the government spending."

The more the government does, the more private investors wait.

"Part of the reason that people aren't spending is they don't know what these characters in Washington are going to do," says Howard Baetjer of Towson University.

"Japan tried six spending packages in the early 1990s. The result? A decade of lost growth," points out Ben Powell of Suffolk University. "It's the government's own policies that contributed to the bubble. The government's not the answer to it."

I wanted to ask the bailout's big boosters about that. Two agreed to talk, Maxine Waters of the House Finance Committee and Majority Leader Hoyer.

Hoyer conceded that he "overstated the case" when he said every economist endorsed government action.

Wasn't the bubble caused by too much debt? I asked.

"No doubt about it."

So the answer is more debt?

"Most economists believe that's the case."

This stimulus spending is this going to work?

"I hope so."

Might it cause hyperinflation?

"We hope it doesn't. "

Well, that's comforting.

"Government can't sit and just twiddle its fingers," Rep. Waters told me. "We have got to interject money into these banks and these systems that help this economy work."

How are you going to pay for it?

"We have borrowed money before. We continue to borrow money, but we pay it back."

She left a few things out. Debt means interest payments and higher taxes in the future. It also means inflation when the Fed prints money to reduce the real value of the debt.

But the politicians are confident that they can wisely spend trillions of your dollars. The arrogance of the political class is stunning.

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About The Author
John Stossel blogs at http://blogs.abcnews.com/johnstossel/ is an award-winning news correspondent and author of Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity: Get Out the Shovel--Why Everything You Know is Wrong.
 
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©Creators Syndicate
Consensus
Your right again John!! Scientists and politicians have a consensus that we are all brain dead. The same type use consensus as a tool of facism. Ruling by WHO's consensus is the question.

Arrogance Is Right

Unfortunately, I'm not stunned. I had all of them pegged long ago. As I have always said, you should never fall in love with or worship a politician because you will get your heart broken. Lord, love a duck and please let all Obama voters rue the day that this conceited bast@rd ever got elected.

Clowns
I wouldn't trust these clowns to run a lemonade stand. It was government intervention that got us here in the first place. I know the Libs will try to deny it but so be it. Yes GW started the intervention and I totally disagreed with it. Maxine Waters really takes the cake though. Isn't she the one that was telling the oil companies that the government was going to take over their business? Well, gas prices are down now so I guess it dosen't do her any good to rail against the oil companies now. What an opportunist.

First rule of today's politics
is: "If they get a check from us, they vote for us."
Obama & co. don't give a damn about the economy; they only care about their power position. As long as they can arrange for the Democrats to be the permanent majority, the rest of us can starve.

Not to say the GOP is necessarily any different, just not as good at it, and they don't have the MSM in their pocket.

Google "nomenklatura". That is what it is all about.,

Delusion
The point being missed is that there IS NO PLAN that will bring us back to the days of unsustainable hyper-consumption based on massive consumer debt and fantasy 'profit' off of tricky 'financial instruments'.

Nor should there be.

Obama and crew (and Bush and crew before him) are measuring economic 'recovery' against a standard that was never sustainable in the first place.

Oh well
I've got to crawl out of the rabbit hole, and have a dose of 90 proof therapy.

Perpetual Gov't Spending?
If there is so much consensus that government spending will jolt the economy back to prosperity, then why haven't we been doing this all the time?

And I guess all of us will be building roads, bridges, and water lines as these appear to be the jobs that will be available.

John, the next time you have a leading Democrat on 20/20 ask them why they don't support the data that shows tax cuts actually increase tax revenue to the treasury via increased economic activity.

2006 Article
by Thomas Sowell was more intuitive than we could have known at the time.

Here is the link:

http://townhall.com/columnists/ThomasSowell/2006/09/06/the_ new_nomenklatura?page=full&comments=true


John in CA:
Mad Maxine and others are not yelling and screaming about oil companies at the moment.

But if the new budget goes through like they want it to, every independent explorer/producer/innovator will be forced out of business.

I do believe the word "conspiracy" is appropriate at this time.

The "government" will save us?!
The government, meaning those elected individuals in Washington is/are a joke! When I listen to the likes of Maxine Waters, I laugh until I almost get sick to my stomach! These people project an image of being so "intelligent" and above and beyond our level(s) of intelligence, that they all think we must be absolutely stupid to the "nth degree"!

Those who voted for Obama to bring "change that we can believe in" to Washington, hopefully are beginning to see the "light". We all need to act in whatever way we can at the grass-roots level to get these "comedians" out of Washington!

Obama doesn't seem to know what he's saying half the time. Now he's talking about "rewarding" those teachers who bring "excellence" to the classroom, and are doing a "good job". To begin with, WHO is to evaluate what a "good job" is?! How will one MEASURE that level of "excellence"?! What will the standard be? What are the "benchmarks"? Obama is in over his head!

If you haven't yet heard his recorded conversation with the NY Times regarding whether he's a socialist or not, be sure to track it down and listen to it! It's entertaining if, for no other reason, he's speaking without a teleprompter! He's not and eloquent speaker...he's not a great orator! Far from it! At best, he's an average "reader" of speeches he hasn't written!

No, this "government" in Washington will not save us! It could even destroy our way of life as we know it...let's hope and pray that will not be the case!

Lorianne in HI @ #5
Bingo!

Abysmal Obama
Consensus has been reached! Obama is abysmal and will be gone in 4 years!
Republicans will regain the House and Senate in 2012..with NEW FACES!
Term limits will be written into law and Obama will be found guilty of some crime involving concealing his real birth place!

Economists Disagree

Your statement on the issue of economy that "Every Economist are in agreement that Massive Stimulus is the Solution" is a flat out lie. Only the Keysanoian Economists believe this. The Austrian Economists believe in just the opposite.The Austrian School Economists believe that the markets will clean itself out and no government intervention is necessary. Congressman Ron Paul has studied Economics for many years. He has advocated switching to Austrian Economics to our Congresspeople.They ignored him. Congressman Ron Paul has also predicted the economic downfall because of the bailouts of the industries by the government for the past several years, nobody wanted to believe him. Now we are finding out that he was right. And Alan Greenspan and Ben Bernake were wrong about our economy.
But do you think our government would do the smart thing and stop feeding the bubbles and start allowing these business to fail that made bad investments. No, we are going to follow the same path that we have always followed and allow our nation to go bankrupt even more. Why? Following the Keysonian theory of bailing out every business is simply another way to bankrupt our nation and our taxpayers.

The Austrian Economics isn't taught in very many schools here in the U.S. because the government run schools don't want it taught. The government believes they are always right, and that arrogance that our government has is why this country is in so much financial trouble.

Insanity is using the same system over and over again and expecting different results. We need to switch to the Austrian Economics and let the market weed out failed businesses.

No bailouts for any businesses. Banks, Automobile, Wall Street Investers, Housing, all businesses would be on their own,if they can't run their business in a successful and profitable manner without making bad investment decisions they deserve to fail.

Enough is Enough.
You all need to support the Tea Parties in your state and county.

http://givemeliberty.org/

The Youth Vote....
Inexperience and conceit was the hallmark of this election. Obama's cynicism was evident in his dependence on the "youth vote." Why? Those of us who lived through the last attempt at liberalism (Jimmah Carter), remember quite well, the high interest rates, the unemployment, inflation and fear. Bill Clinton knew better, as his tenure was too close to the memory of Carter, and the fact that the Republican party and Newt kept him "triangulating." Half hearted attempts at social engineering, were presented with the understanding that they would never get off the ground: Don't ask, don't tell "Hillary Care, etc,.....Now it's a 'perfect storm,' as Obama runs hard to the left, with young know-nothing voters, products of public schools, cheering him on in their ignorance. We do, however, have the blessing of the off-year elections looming on the horizon. Our only chance to "save the republic" is to regain the Congress and stop Obama in his bloody tracks. If Nancy and Harry are not stripped of their dangerous ambition, it may take decades to correct and pay for, the mistakes that this economic idiot of a president is making. Pray that God is not the Author of this mess and that He is allowing us to once and for all, learn that abortion, big government, "climate change" and political correctness is not what He had in mind when He inspired our Founders to create the greatest country in the history of thew world.

Another Small Thing.
Lorianne is correct, of course. But more.

Up until 1945, since the time of ancient Egypt, what successful nations did, to keep their rising standard of living rising, was merely go take the riches of a weaker nation.

Since 1945, some of the world's governments have sort of tried to outlaw that time-old way, and the world has been in some confusion. And, of course, many in the world don't really subscribe to this new thing -- of not getting their riches from weaker nations.

If I were president, I'd try to get Russia to be our closest ally. This Putin seems to know history, whatever his politics.

All the rest is pie-in-the-sky talk.

Collision Course
The lies and fantasies and arrogance of our political 'leaders' is about to--has already begun to--collide with reality. As in the movie 'US Marshal' when overlooking the train wreck scene, the line was, and shall be: 'What a mess, what a mess!'
Why do we let them get away with it? The patients are truly running the asylum. Some of the country's most dedicated imbeciles are in charge.

Criminals
The people "running" the country at all levels are criminals and traitors. They have sworn to uphold the Constitution and what they have all done is rip the Constitution to shreds.

The Constitution was adopted as a means of limiting the reach of government. The Founders saw the role of government as being a force to secure the benefits of liberty. Government is now destructive of liberty and a force with unlimited power.

This bunch of little Stalins is working overtime to strip us our God given rights. Free people have the right to deal with tyrants. Anyone supporting the destruction of the Constitution is a traitor to America and should be treated as such.

Sic Semper Tyrranis

The arrogance of ignorance
It's the arrogance of ignorance. They (Pelosi, Reid, Obama, etc.) are abysmally ignorant. They "make up" for their ignorance with colossal arrogance. It's a perfect match.

R

WHAT HAVE WE LEARNED IN TWO MILLENNIA?

"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled,
public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should
be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands
Should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again
learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."
--Cicero, 55 BC



AND WE ALL KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO ROME!



Tell it like it is, Stossel
You're never one for muddling the truth, John. And this is no exception. I was watching Real Time with Bill Maher last week and they were echoing the same rhetoric. Spend now, don't worry about the consequences later. Does no one understand basic economic principles anymore? Keep doing what you do, John! You've got an ally in me!

someone in the republican party
better strap a set on and connect the dots with this situation before it's too late.
This guy is on his way to turning this country into a communist one, there will be no unwinding the damage he will do.

The damfools who fell for his line of BS better wake up.

At best he is woefully incompetant, at worst he is a communist puppet and his mentors are pulling his strings to destroy this nation. This level of attacks on the way we did business for over 200 years is no accident.

WE who?
You state that *WE* have been rolled again. As Tonto said to the Lone Ranger, *We who?*

Most of us already knew (through our Depression baby parents) that debt is not cleared up by more debt any more than a big gambling loss is repaired by gambling even more money, or embezzlement is ever repaired by embezzling even more (as people do to buy lotto tickets around here). If you are in a deep hole, the way to get out is not to keep digging.

Daddy was a milk inspector who travelled regularly to farms in the days when the younger farmers were being urged to mortgage their property and buy huge expensive machinery with pennies down. He used to come home and tell us about this over dinner, adding always what a bad idea this was because there would always be a down for every up and if they could not pay,they would lose the machinery and they might lose their farms as well.

Optimism is a good thing, but not when you are shooting craps with the future.

WE were not fooled. Only those who really believe they are going to win the Lotto were fooled.

Maxine Waters
Interject money into the economy?? Is this ebonics at the highest level of government?? How aobut inject instead? Here is the best way to change the economy:
Letter from the Boss,

As the CFO of this business that employees 32 people, I have resigned myself to the fact that Barrack Obama is our President, and that our taxes and government fees will increase in a BIG way. To compensate for these increases, I figure that the Clients will have to see an increase in our fees to them of about 8%. Since we cannot increase our fees right now due to the dismal state of our economy, we will have to lay off three of our employees instead. This has really been eating at me for a while, as we believe we are family here and I didn't know how to choose who will have to go.

So, this is what I did: I strolled thru our parking garage and found 3 Obama bumper stickers on our employees' cars and have decided these folks will be the first to be laid off. I can't think of a more fair way to approach this problem. These folks wanted change; I gave it to them. If you have a better idea, let me know.

Sincerely,
The Boss

GO GO GO!!!
I said it before. I hope the Obama/Reid/Pelosi/DailyKossacks/MovemorOn.org/DemonRat/LibTards get everything they want. HAHAHAHA!

wake up
Who is John Galt.

socialism
Maxine waters is a socialist

Bumper Sticker Bernie
Look out for these ones too: "Visualize World Peace." and "Perform Random Acts of Kindness." These simpletons should be jettisonned even in a robust economy.

Ronald Reagan
Said, "The most terrifying words in the english language are, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Hay and fodder for the masses
Line up for your gubmint dictated daily ration of hay and fodder.

Maxine Waters is an IDIOT!
The only congressperson who is dumber than she is, is the black woman from Houston who wondered if the Mars Rover could trundle over to where the astronauts planted the flag, and take a picture of it. Duh!

I was in and out of Watts a few times several years ago, and talking to the people there, Waters is an embarrassment, but has so corrupted her district, no one else can get a foot in the door.

YOU ARE NOT ALONE!
......groups are forming all over the US in every city.

1. View this video

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6732659166933078950

2. Then get this book (Amazon maybe) and read "THE 5000 YEAR LEAP" ...(it is in short supply) and you will begin to understand what we are about to lose.

3. Then join one of Glenn Beck's "WE SURROUND THEM" groups ( forming up all over the country) and help us save our Republic before it is too late.

Follow these links to understand how this works............ you can start a group in your area or town to view the unveiling of Glenn's program this Friday or record it (Tivo- DVR) and watch it later. This may be our last chance to save America from Socialism and save our Republic.....PLEASE GET INVOLVED BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE.

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/21018 /

http://wesurroundthemmap.com/

http://www.meetup.com/We-Surround-Them-in-Fort-Worth/



4. And then for a little light reading......Ayn Rand's "ATLAS SHRUGGED" and learn who John Galt is (you will be hearing more about him).

All this should bring you up to speed and you can begin to help us save our country.

Wrong Approach
Stossel talked to Maxine Waters!! Stossel should have gone out in his front yard and talked to a rock; he would have gotten no less information. Maxine is without doubt the dumbest person ever to occupy a Democrat seat in Congress---divide her IQ by 2 and you will have a proper fraction.

Conceit is one way to put it....
....another is LIES! The Obamanation and Company know what they're doing...they are mortgaging America's future so they can have power now. Even if they KNOW there is no "concensus" that their stimuli will work, they will say so anyway, just to get what they want. And they're shoving it through so fast, so we don't have time to stop them. Who in their right mind votes for a bill that spends BILLIONS of dollars, without even reading it??? So many of us saw it coming...but couldn't do a darn thing about it. The mainstream media doesn't care any more than the government does. I pray that Glenn Beck's "We Surround Them" plan will work...because if we don't do something NOW to stop these fiends, it may be too late.

Be Afraid! Be very afraid!
Just had an interesting talk with a financial type. Banks in AZ are getting ready for the bailout by foreclosing on upside-down loans and selling the house cheap so the feds will pay them the difference.

This is driving down the value of all houses in the area, putting more homeowners at risk, homeowners who are making their payments, thank you very much.

He believes that the states with the largest problems in the home loan area (CA, AZ, etc.) are being victimized by the government's approach to this problem.

If left unchecked, this will kill middle America!

The arrogance is stunning?
The stupidity is stunning?
Why are we letting these people get away with it?

Our Economist Was Against It
Our economist was against Obama's election because of this sort of thing. He said that Recessions are a good thing in that they serve to clear up things that are not efficiently working in the system. So if you don't allow them to occur you perpetuate the problem. It is like the forest fire that burns the under growth around trees, and causes loblolly pines to germinate. If we stop a natural event from happening like that then the unwanted undergrowth florishes until the next fire completely destroys the forest.

Stupid Reasoning
If the government spends by taxing you more to do so that is non-stimulative. But if the government borrows to spend or borrows to give a targeted tax break that is stimulative.

While there may be a few far out economists who don't believe this, most mainstreat exconomists do.

waters and hoyer
I realize Mr Stossel may have presented incomplete statements of what those two "leaders" said. But... had i used similar arguments when writing papers for economics classes at fordham univ; they papers would have been returned with failing grades.

Would it not be outstanding to read the paper justifying the stimulus argument? In time, the market will grade the work of "waters and hoyer, et al."

James: our economist
reminds me of what Grandmother White used to say about hurricanes. "They are good. There is no growth unless something knocks down the dead wood."

Then she went on to talk about how one can prepare to manage a naturally occurring event.

You all have a good economist.

Are the people living in the suburbs
having any say about who gets sent to the Senate? How do we keep ending up with people like Maxine Waters?

Change Voting Laws
It makes complete sense to me that since only taxpayers are truly concerned with how their money is spent, maybe we should allow people that pay taxes the right to vote.

Change Voting Rights
It makes complete sense to me that since only taxpayers are truly concerned with how their money is spent, maybe we should allow people that pay taxes the right to vote.

John
I never knew you were an Economist. Why? Because you're not an Economist. The economics which you were taught,is no longer applicable. People like you,who are not even minimally trained in economics,just don't understand. I wish I could help but the task is too great. Maybe in the next life?

John Stossel is the reason I come here
In a world full of partisan hacks and RINOS, Stossel is consistent and clear. His positions are logical and positive. He is not merely against this theft for the moment but because it is clear that government is the problem and theft is theft and is immoral and not justified. Publish more Stossel.

Good Piece, John
Always good reporting when all the B...S... is washed away so the truth can easily be seen/determined. Waters, and others like her, always have a hard time explaining themselves and when they do never seem to realize their explanations are shallow and senseless...

Killer in GA:
? Did you miss the school bus this morning? If you hurry, I bet the Kindergarten teacher won't even realize your late...

I think your answer is an excellent example (and explanation) of how morons like Waters gets elected and then RE-ELECTED!! Joycey...does "Killer in GA" comments answer your question?

killer from georgia
are you serious? Are you talking about John Stossel?

If so: Please explain your reasoning. I AM an economist so go ahead and write at length!

Vincent
You have heard no doubt of the saying; "It is better to have a half loaf of bread, than no bread at all". Everything you have can be turned into "Nothing", in a matter of months. Only someone who harbors great ignorance, can follow your logic. No one is "Stealing" from you,because in the larger scheme of things. You don't have anything! What I have just stated is an economic query. I would like for to go inside this query and find your way around. Don't follow other "Idiots" who have a political agenda to fill!

Idiot politicians
Who elects these people?Only bigger idiots than the pols.

Joycey
The good news, such as it is, is that Maxine Waters is not a senator, she's a representative. By means of gerrymandering, states manage to group the MOST ignorant people into districts, so that it's possible that the more intelligent people in other districts MAY (or may not) elect representatives whose IQs MIGHT (or might not) offset the IQs of dimwits like Maxine. The problem is, however, that most of those who seek government office do so because they're too dumb and too lazy to hold a job in the productive (i.e. private) sector, making it very difficult to elect people with any ability to think. Still, as Maxine is just one member of the 435-member House of Representatives, the average IQ of all House members SHOULD be higher than Maxine's IQ.

On the other hand, the Senate consists of only 100 members and California's two senators, Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer, chosen by the electorate statewide, would seem to indicate that Californians' average IQ...is a good reason to live elsewhere.

jax33
My guess: people like Killer elect people like Obama and Maxine Waters.

In other words, you're correct.

Killer
So...let me get this right....if someone steals 1/2 the belongings in my home, I should be happy about that because they did not steal everything? And I should just shut up and be happy about it?

Are you an idiot??

The arrogance is stunning
Not only is the arrogance stunning but so is the ignorance. Most of these politicians don't have a clue. I doubt many of them even had economics 101.

Common Sense Trumps All…
…And arrogant people always miss the point. Mr. Obama is arrogant, as are his entire team of lackey's. They will never be 'spot on' correct on any problem solution, because they lack common sense judgment and refuse to consider alternative ideas.

An arrogant (and incompetent) electorate chose the incompetent 'cool' speaking guy over the more capable 'proven' guy… and now we are damned with Barack Hussein Obama as president… a total misfit.

Killer
Your the reason us southerners are looked at as uneducated hillbilly's. Thanks for spreading the stereotype!

“free enterprise” sustainable?
*

Ironically, the “black” man does NOT recognize slavery because; President Obama is reinstituting that same condition on a macro-economic scale. The opposition are not cowards for fearing this assault.

Is entrepreneurial capitalistic “free enterprise” sustainable? Or, has the (233 year) experiment in individual property rights come to a failed conclusion? Is the human race returning (evolving) to a natural state, in which everyone is subservient to the state, totalitarianism?

Citizens’ personal and real estate property ownership; including use, distribution control, compensation for transfer, and relief from confiscatory taxes, must be recaptured from an ever expanding government if modern civilization is to be sustained. Prosperity for a large (as percentage) middle-class must be present for liberty to function as we have experienced.

continue at
http://lingensjo.blogtownhall.com

Comprehensive slavery is all about ownership; being property of the state as opposed to an individual.

Patriots are searching for some ACTION they can do personally! Many authors and media personalities promote broad-brush, macro-ideas, and general philosophy. Citizens want specific impact activity they can engage in; click the “pitch-fork posse” post for detailed instructions.

*

killer
As you stated, since nothing you have is actually yours, mind if I come over and take your car out for a spin, stay in your house a few weeks, eat your food, take a small withdraw from your bank account, and throw your wife/girlfriend down in the sack for a little romp?

After all, none of that stuff is yours...

Polly
Your state like mine has some common sense reps and senators even if they're Democrats, even though to go along with the dim leadership requires denying common sense. One of our North Texas reps is a doctor so I don't think Maxine Waters represents a large contingent but definitely a gerrymandering pattern. Like Chisolm before her and Eddie Bernice Williams from Dallas they refuse to face a lot of facts when they go against their dim agenda.

consensus
Consensus is the new "offensive" term by which to silence any opposition.

Get government out of the way and all will manage itself.

LET EACH CARE FOR SELF AND ALL WILL BE CARED FOR!

http://iconicfreedom.blogspot.com/


killer: I never knew YOU were

an Economist either. Why?

Because you're a NOT! And because you're killer! And pretty much an idiot to boot!


Stossel
There you go again, John. Confusing the issues with facts and logic.

Killer
This explains your ignorance about Stossel(and a whole lot more):

"Maybe in the next life?"

Perhaps maybe you read this and understand economics, especially since Stossel is part of CATO: http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10026

It's a great story about how free markets helped the Salvadorian people flourish in their economy.

Leslie
I have a home and business in Georgia. I could never "Live" here? Hillbillies don't use words like "Query". The word "Live" is an inference. It infers a connection. It's a business arrangement,no more,no less. But thanks for your concern!

JP
I asked,that you go inside the "Query". Please don't allow your ignorance, to serve as a barrier. Your illusion,while funny, was not what I had "Hoped" for. The "Unsophisticated" are Capitalism's greatest enemies.

"Stimulous"
"We got rolled again"? No, we allow it by electing career politicians whose only goal is to get reelected by any means. Republicans and Democrats. We need to retire most of Congress in 2010. If we don't, our country will be gone. Obama promised us CHANGE and is delivering CHAINS held by the Chinese Government. We are to blame.

periodictablet.com

JMO51

"Stupid Reasoning
If the government spends by taxing you more to do so that is non-stimulative. But if the government borrows to spend or borrows to give a targeted tax break that is stimulative.

While there may be a few far out economists who don't believe this, most mainstreat exconomists do."

You are correct, your reasoning is stupid. You cannot rob Paul to pay Peter continually. Sooner or later the piper has to be paid. How are you going to pay him? Borrow? Well that takes more money, since your debt becomes larger. That is a net negative to the economy because it is less money spent growing the economy. Raise taxes? Same effect. Net negative to the economy.

Wow Killer!
Man am I impressed! Did you look that word up in your thesaurus? I hope you didn't pee your panties when you stumbled upon that word? You know, I'll bet everyone here on TH is awestruck with your superior command of the English language.

Query? I know you didn't invite me inside your Query, but I would like to take the opportunity to decline your invitation for everyone here on TH. Well most of us anyway! I'm sure there are several of your like-minded liberal friends that would be happy to join you, while you wander around inside your little query! You see, we are already enlightened. We have already experienced our epiphany, so we don't need to wander around inside a query!

I do have a few questions though, you know because I have never been inside someone else's query. I would be curious to know if it is dark in there? I'll bet it's frightening huh? Do you guys bump into each other while wandering around inside your query? You and all your liberal buddies, I mean? Have you figured out who the master of the universe is yet? Is oblama in there too? Does he allow you to stand in his presence or must you remain on your knees? Do you think there's any chance you will ever escape from your query?

Gee I hope not!

Cheers!
Don C


Forgive JMO51
for I believe he is lost in killers query!

Don C

Maxine "Photo-Op" Waters
Like Obama, the number one thing on her list is herself. Yep, she's twiddling her fingers alright...until her next interview and the next chance she gets to promote herself.

Whose Fault?
When we believe what people feed us, which is not entriely true, which is essentially the point that Stossel is making, whose fault it that? Should we expect politicians, any politician, to tell us the truth? If we believe that something is true, when it is not, isn't the most likely reason we believe what is not true, because that is what we hear in the news?

The Great Joke
So, we invested in IRAs & 401K & 529s etc for our future & the wizards of Wall Street lost it all. Wall Street lost most of YOUR past wealth. To make ammends Wall Street went to Congress & cryed for a "bailout" to cover THEIR losses (not YOURS). So Congress caved and spent trillions of YOUR money on a bailout. The bailout is failing. The businesses receiving these funds are in no better shape now than they were 6 months ago. The situation will not improve with time. Most need more capital now & will require continuous injections of YOUR money to survive. Some will simply be allowed to fail. There will be no "gains" for the taxpayers in the long run or in the short run. So taxes must rise to cover the staggering costs. The future tax burdens will go towards covering the bailout of Wall Street to cover past losses. This means that Wall Street will not only cost you YOUR past wealth but YOUR future wealth as well. Congress goes merrily along smug in the knowledge that they helped Wall Street steal an entire nations wealth in a single bill. That's the Great Joke.

Injury and Insult
Foolish an exercise as it may seem, let us imagine that monies disbursed in the current fiscal orgy were targeted to programs that would actually be helpful to the economy.
An important question to consider -- one that seems to have escaped the notice of even the best critics -- is the percentage of each dollar (or millions, billions, trillions) that will be lost to government inefficiencies. Considering redundancies, bureaucratic overhead, excessive regulation, fraud and other factors (http://www.heritage.org/research/budget/bg1840.cfm), my guess is that about sixty cents of every dollar spent by federal government is lost. While other estimates are more generous (http://www.icrsurvey.com Study.aspx?f=ABC_taxdoll.html), it is certainly true that the amount of loss is appalling.
My point is this: the Obama-government-spending plan (even excluding corruption and incompetence) will indenture our grandchildren and beyond. Adding to the injury of crippling debt and the erosion of liberty is the insult on knowing that much, if not most, of the money was wasted.

We pay it back?
Maxine Waters outright lied when she said the government pays money back - how does she think the federal debt has grown to $10 trillion?

Stenny Hoyer, at least, echoes the Obama administration's platform - "hope". I would be a bit more comfortable if they could cite some actual data to support their plan, but that would not be Obama-like.

George
Which Bill? The economy lost 7 trillion dollars to the "Boys" on Wall Street. The theft started in 1974 with ERISA. Please be advised that 3.5 trillion dollars does not equal 7 trillion. If you and others had understood the legal ramifications of this act,maybe things would be different. Unsophistication in the area of economics, has cost this nation's citizens greatly. As it should! Ignorance is the most costly experience in life! SORRY... Yet, Americans still don't know how this economy WORKS..That is truly SADDDDDDDDD?

Hoyer LIED as they all do!
He did not "overstate the case". He flat out LIED. "Overstating the case" is nothing more than PC groupspeak trying to get groupthinkers on board. Say it like it is: Hoyer is a liar.

history
I know that politicans like to rewrite history to make them look good. History should be studied to learn from past mistakes.It might help Mizz Waters to understand that the stimulus bill is not going to help but actually extend the problem. Maybe they all should study what actually happen when Roosevelt tried to get the US out of the Great Depression,that after 8 years the unemployment was still double digit.That it was actually WW2 that brought us back.

Now I am sure that with all their knowledge and smarts they probably already know that. So what could actually be their motive in spending all that money? In getting the government into the middle of big business. To deamonize Wall Street? Make people envious of someone other wealth?Promise health care and education,from birth to death? Just maybe they don't want America to come out of this slump,just maybe this is going to be a way to get their hands on everything.

Thinking about this reminds one of that saying Mizz Hillary said it was the vast right wing conspiracey,only this time it is the vast left wing doing the dirty deed.

Can't wait until 2010,there just might be a reawaking.

Killer
You said you were from England. England is in trouble because of their socialism. Socialism is so sophisticated...right? And you try to convince us to do the same. We don't need your advice. I hope your country makes it.

killer
"The word "Live" is an inference. It infers a connection."

For someone who drones on and on about how others are "ignorant", I find it amusing that you are ignorant of the difference in the meanings of the words "infer" and "imply".

In short, before you start quacking about how you think others might be "ignorant", you might first want to LRN2INGRISH!

beowulfe
Please use your dictionary. It pathetic,when an individual attempts to correct what is beyond his comprehension. An opinion reached by reasoning of facts and observation. I stand by my statement "Idiot"!!!

beowulfe. Don't just inform, EDUCATE
I thought for a minute there that no one noticed killer's faux pas, that is, lecturing the readers about his massive intellectual capacity and mis-using a word as he does so. But YOU are assuming he might go to a dictionary, in search of that last bit of knowledge which will make him perfect. I do not so assume.

So, killer, read, study, absorb (perfect):

infer |in'f?r|
verb ( -ferred , -ferring ) [ trans. ]
deduce or conclude (information) from evidence and reasoning rather than from explicit statements : [with clause ] from these facts we can infer that crime has been increasing.

imply |im'pli|
verb ( -plies, -plied) [ trans. ]
strongly suggest the truth or existence of (something not expressly stated) : the salesmen who uses jargon to imply his superior knowledge | [with clause ] the report implies that two million jobs might be lost.

YOU may imply anything you wish as you pontificate. I/we may infer something quite different.


killer
"It pathetic"? What you mean?

The second rule of pontification: proofread, proofread, proofread.

Very Important - Computers Hacked

Very Important - Computers Hacked

If you have made any political donations to Conservative or Republican candidates or political organizations, please be advised that there is a whole lot of hacking going on. I just got off the phone with a reporter from a Minneapolis newspaper, who interviewed me in connection with a donation that my company made to the Coleman campaign. wikileaks.org has a database online with all the information of the donors, i.e., names, addresses, phone numbers, email addresses, credit card numbers, etc.

Please check the database and CANCEL YOUR CREDIT CARD, NOW!!!

The tenacles of the Anti-Prop 8 LibNazis are a'spreading.

Please pass this along and post in EVERYWHERE.

Thanks, denise

AIG started this mess......
Ask the fellow from CT who ran AIG's London office. He found a loophole in the financial regulations allowing him and his cronies to exploit the heck out of it. End result is what we have now. After he left AIG last year, they paid him $1,000,000 a MONTH for Consultaion Fees!!!
And you thought Bernie M. was a fraud...he's a upcake next to this fellow and AIG top exec's.

8 plus years ago.....
I always ask myself at the National Eelctions, am I better off today than I was 8 years ago?
Well, this last time I figured out that 8 years previously, I had a good paying job with bonus, my 401k was healthy, my home which I've paid for faithfully over 19 years was worth almost $500,000 and we actually still had remnants of the Constitution in place (somewhere). On Election Day, 2008, my situation is no job and no prospects in sight, my 401k is more like a 101k, my home is worth a little less than what I paid for it 19 years ago and GWB has all but wiped out the last remnants of the Constitution with his 900 plus Executive Orders. Yes, I voted for Obama. Will it be a mistake? Who knows? He inherited a real mess thanks to a lack-luster, no gut, pork-barrel, ego tripped congress. I do disagree with all those that say we should bail these giants of industry out....or if we do, clean house, at least. If I had run my departments the way they ran their companies I would have been fired in no time. Time will tell what all these jokers end up doing. Usually, big government usually means big and costly messes. What a legacy we leave...Why can't someone ever run for office and really try to clean this whole country up? Half of the politicians don't know what's really going on and the other half sit around complaining about the present situation. End result is nothing really gets done. It sounds like an old joke or sitcom.

Hmmm . . . .
Killer - you're in over your head; most folks here have no illusions about your allusion to intelligence. I can't quite figure how you found your way here.

I think one of the things that amazes me most about the approach(es) of our newest administration is how it's always "the old ways don't work anymore".
A great many of "the old ways" have quite a lot of proven history behind them that is ignored at peril. However, each new bunch of "saviors" will usually drop them when looking for a new "hook" to get elected.
Ivy League, Cato, Mensa, Rhoads - whatever - the people we elect are no smarter than we are at living life and making mistakes and being human.
Some, however, are pretty smart about manipulating the masses - which is easier than one-at-a-time - and promoting themselves.

One of the reasons I think professional politicians should be outlawed.

Dana
We hired someone to "fix" things; and he'll do as well as his predecessors - plus or minus a little.

Why do we expect "fixing" anyway, when all we do is vote the same sort in, nearly every time, and make the same complaints when they do the same things to us? Expecting something different from the same old actions is crazy.

On top of that, I'll betcha that home and job was growing pretty well over about 6 of those "awful" 8 years. Well - maybe not the job; I'm sure corporate management instituted some "strategic initiatives", including "performance indicators", that determined compensation (particularly bonuses)somewhere back around 8 years ago. These are the things that grew into the "CEO Bonus" issues of the day. At their level, it was almost like insider trading.

I think it unfortunate that our government (last one included) don't see fit to keep out and let the market punish these companies with oblivion.
The remaining companies that absorb the losers are more apt to learn a lesson that way.


They Do Work for US time they REMEMBER
The white house is nothing but smoke and mirrors with mis-direction that would make Copperfield proud. At least the Clinton's were funny, this guy is scary.

obama-nation, got those low income kids kicked out your daughter's school. Good going from a man for the poor and middle class. You are the gift that just never goes away.

Impeach obama-nation, reed, nancy, dodd, franks and rangle.

I have never demonstrated before, but, if a million American Patriot March on the mall was put together, we would be there in a flash. Will even bring the grand-kids, it is their money anyway.


I think
a lesson that the black voters, at the urging of their black pastors voted for the Obama change and hoped they'd be in the drivers seat.
They haven't a clue that they are still in the back of the bus, driven by one of their own. You'd think that having the worst schools in the worst of the worst neighborhoods, D.C. and having the voucher system taken from them when it's been proven to educate instead of wharehousing the kids in the inner city, they'd finally wake up and realize the DemonRAT party
is keeping them down, and uneducated and on the plantation. The DemonRATS fought for slavery,
fought against civil rights, instituted Jim Crow laws and now does a lucy/Charlie Brown trick on them..remove hope for the brightest kids, forcing them to go back into the sewers called schools in D.C. It's not only forced slavery because every tax payer pays regardless of whether they have kids or school age kids or live in D.C..it's a federal city..we all pay.
WE have infesting our Congress/government people who are intellectually stupid but
criminally intelligent.

Dana
Know how you feel. Had a good business for the last 15 years, since Set. 29th. 08 it is nearly gone. My home that is almost paid for is still worth a bit as it overlooks Zion National Park.

I am glad to hear from folks that vote for Obama, always ask why? Serious, what drew you to this man? No joke, really want to understand...

Lorianne from Hawaii
Post #5
You are so right it isn't funny.
Mahalo for stating the truth

Dana - 1
As Jim pointed out, the first six years of the Bush administration were kind to EVERYONE, business, labor, investors (401ks!), etc. Despite the constant drumbeat of the Democrats, "WE'RE IN A RECESSION!! WE'RE IN A RECESSION!!", the economy grew, year after year, at a rate of about 3% per year. Inflation was virtually nonexistent, unemployment was low, and the Dow rose steadily. At the end of Bush's first 6 years, gasoline sold for around $2.20/gal.

Then the Democrats took over Congress--and it's CONGRESS that does just about everything other than Executive Orders. Congress taxes, spends, and hires bureaucrats to regulate your behavior (so that the legislators don't have to take the blame). Even after the Democrats took control of Congress, the Dow climbed to over 14,000! But under the Democrats gasoline rose to over $4/gal. (remember how they promised "We have a plan to bring down gasoline prices!"?), and as THEY ran all the committees, including BANKING, the banks started to falter. A few extra pushes (like when Sen. Schumer, D-N.Y., published in the New York Times his letter to bank regulators warning that California's IndyMac was in trouble and likely to fail--causing a run on IndyMac and...FAILURE!), and soon the financial sector began to slide.

Well, lo and behold, gas prices HAVE come down; recession and unemployment reduces demand; supply and demand is working. And now we know the Democrats' "plan to bring down gasoline prices"!

I know you're proud of yourself, but maybe you should take a closer look at what you've accomplished.



Dana - 2
President Bush was leaving office this year anyway; you didn't fire him.

And you failed to fire the anti-business, anti-employment, anti-oil and/or gas (I'd say anti-American but that would be unkind and off-putting) Democrats in Congress. PLUS you hired a guy with their same philosophy to preside over them, President Obama. As his vice-president said of him during the campaign, "The presidency is no time for on-the-job training." He was right. Obama is having a hard time even filling necessary appointments; he doesn't seem to know many people who have actually PAID their taxes.

Good luck with that job thing. I hope you're a unionized construction worker; that's where the jobs are, for now. Later you can probably get a government job.

Obama Is An Idiot Demagogue!
Obama has got to be the first candidate and president that can say or do anything stupid or nonsensical and the press pretend as if nothing was said or done.

Imagine, months on top of months of him preaching how no lobbyists would be allowed in his cabinet. He continues to say that while he puts lobbyists in his cabinet. Bizarre!

Imagine months on top of months of him preaching how his Administration will be so ethical. He continues to say that as he brings on tax cheat after another. Bizarre!

Imagine months on top of months of him preaching how he will not allow "earmarks". He signed one of the biggest "earmark"d bill in history and repeated how that will not happen under his Administration. Bizarre!

Even with all of this slight of hand demogogery, his fans and the media continue to repeat his words as gospel and seem to ignore his actions. Bizaree!

Am I the only one that thinks this is Twi-light Zone material?

America has lost its mind!!!

Obama supporters
Every racist and hate mongering group in America posts in support of Obama on this site.
Check it out, this is where all the hate comes from, Obama and his supporters



http://www.theobamaforum.com/index.php

John writes:
"The arrogance of the political class is stunning."
===================
All thieves are arrogant.
Why any American is awed in learning that politicians are thieves is beyond understanding

Attention Demicans & Republocrats
Attention all Demicans & Republocrats! You are being hoodwinked by both parties. Where was the outcry when Bush tried to stimulate the economy by spending billions of dollars? Where was any real opposition to the Obama debacle? Republicans cry as they should about the waste of our grand-kids money, but what in the end do they do when it comes down to blows? Help the Democrats by putting in billions of their own earmarks in the recently passed "Porkulus" bill!
Perhaps when the republocrats wake up and act like conservatives things might begin to turn around but until then, the only difference between a leftist liberal and a incumbant republican is the rhetoric spewing from their mouths. STUPID IS AS STUPID VOTES! Collectively we voted these idiots in office and now we will pay....and pay.....and pay...

Classy
Dear Mr. Stossel:

Nice job of disagreeing with Reps. Waters and Hoyer without attacking the persons. I salute you!

The AIG coverup
Does anyone watch the foxnews channel? Glenn Beck at 5pm eastern time. He just explained today how that whole AIG thing started and of course it had to do with Barney Frank too. This week everyone try to catch it. He started the 9/12 project which is getting everyone together to have a voice about the way this whole country will soon be a socialist nation. Watch it or watch out. You can also go to the912project.com.
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