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Friday, April 18, 2008
John Hawkins :: Townhall.com Columnist
Seven Uncomfortable Truths For Liberals
by John Hawkins
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The biggest problem with liberalism is that much of it is based on incorrect assumptions about human nature, the government, and how the world works. That's why liberal policies that seem so well-intentioned often have such disastrous results over the long-term. Until liberals start to understand these truths, their ideas will continue to be damaging to their country and the world.

Human beings are born selfish and badly behaved: You, me, your father, Mother Theresa, the Pope -- we were all savage, self-centered little animals when we were born and it was only through the socialization process that we became fit for other humans to live with. That's why people do need religion, rules, and social pressure to be convinced to behave. It's also why projects like communism, which assume that people can be brainwashed to completely disregard their own nature and love their fellow citizens every bit as much as they love themselves, are always doomed to fail.

Change is often a bad thing: It goes without saying that sometimes laws, traditions, and moral practices should be changed, but it shouldn't need to be said that change for its own sake is not a plus either.

Unfortunately, there are far too many people who treat massive changes, changes that have the potential to permanently impact our society in a negative way, very cavalierly. Sure, we'll change the definition of marriage, legalize drugs, weaken the Christian church, allow countless numbers of illegal aliens from a neighboring country to become citizens, etc., etc., etc. -- what could go wrong? A lot, actually.

In fact, if you look back through our history, for every positive change on a large scale, getting rid of slavery for example, you can find multiple significant changes for the worse: like killing children by the millions via abortion and massive increases in illegitimate births because of welfare. That doesn't mean we should avoid change. Let me repeat that: that doesn't mean we should avoid change. However, we should take great care before making massive changes to the way our society works.

People are different: This would seem to be a rather obvious point, but it's one liberals seem to have a great deal of difficulty digesting. In their mind, women and men should be treated as if they have exactly the same predilections and abilities. Different races should perform identically well, in precisely equal percentages, in every activity, and any difference between people must be explained by some sort of unfair societal constraint placed upon the less successful.

However, you must take the uniqueness of the person and the group he's a part of into account. People don't have the same backgrounds, interests, talents, or cultural experiences. Because of that, nothing could be more foolish than to treat every person as if he's an interchangeable widget that should fall into some statistical category to make a bunch of bean counters in D.C. happy.

Most nations are interested in what's good for them: The only thing liberals love better than big government is even bigger government. So, yes, they love using the power of the federal government, but they're even more in love with the idea of building up the United Nations or some other form of world government.

Setting aside the fact that the bigger government gets, the less efficient it becomes, there's another huge problem with the United Nations: it's comprised of individual nations that view the organization as little more than a way to further their own interests, which may oftentimes be in conflict with those of other nations.

The truth is that most people and most nations are primarily interested in taking care of Number One. Moreover, those that don't think that way and feel strongly enough about it to take action beyond a few platitudes or token contributions are few and far between. So since that is the case, any nation that doesn't have strong safeguards for its own national interests in any sort of deal it enters into with other nations or groups of nations, is extremely foolish indeed.

Most of the world operates by the law of the jungle except when they fear the consequences of doing so: Ann Coulter once said that, "the natural state of the world is Darfur. The freakish aberration is America and the rest of the Anglo-Saxon world." Throughout much of history, the idea that most of the world operated by the law of the jungle was so self-evident, that few people doubted it.

However, because the world's only Super Power is a benevolent force that has worked very hard to keep global conflicts to a minimum despite getting very little credit for its actions, many people allow themselves to believe that the world is a relatively ordered and civilized place. That's not so. The prosperous and democratic nations of the world may not have any designs upon their neighbors, but most nations are neither prosperous nor democratic, and the only thing stopping them from taking what they want by force is their inability to do so.

The federal government is by its very nature, slow, stupid, expensive, and inefficient: There are always politicians promising to "reform government" or "make government work," but the federal government always has been and always will be a poor, misshapen tool compared to the free market.

That's because their money isn't on the line and they don't go out of business when they fail. So, the more we keep the functions handled by the federal government at an absolute minimum, the better off we will tend to be as a nation.

Every problem is not fixable: The poor? They are always going to be with us. War? It's always going to exist. Inconveniences and annoyances? We're never going to live in Utopia -- not on this earth anyway.

That's not to say government should never try to help the poor, avoid war, or make a more perfect society. Again, let me repeat that: that's not to say government should never try to help the poor, avoid war, or make a more perfect society. However, there is also something to be said for letting sleeping dogs lie and just accepting that the government cannot and should not try to fix every problem.

That's because not only is it impossible to fix every problem, but because the government's efforts are usually ineffective and often as not, over time, it simply ends up creating a new set of problems to be solved.

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John Hawkins is a professional blogger who runs Right Wing News, Linkiest, and Viral Footage.
 
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No real argument
I have tried to plumb the liberal mind and discovered a difference between them and me. When I consider a question of politics or social interaction, I try to look for precedent in common law, Biblical teaching or the Constitution among other sources. I try to apply the wisdom of forebears to the current situation. I am willing to accept that I may not have the brilliance to alter the current mores in a way that will work for society as a whole foe eternity. Further, I am willing to accept that what I want today may interfere with another's rights or serenity and cede the point.

It is my belief that liberals support their demands for change in the way society works with one phrase. If they demand abortion 'rights', hate speech laws, 'gay' marriage, unisex facilities, college courses in black, women's or gay studies or the elimination of religion from the public square as some examples.

All their demands can backed up by that time honored rationalization........."cuz I wanna!" That's it, thatis all they have, cuz I wanna.

Diversity may be preached by liberals
quote:

People are different: This would seem to be a rather obvious point, but it's one liberals seem to have a great deal of difficulty digesting. In their mind, women and men should be treated as if they have exactly the same predilections and abilities. Different races should perform identically well, in precisely equal percentages, in every activity, and any difference between people must be explained by some sort of unfair societal constraint placed upon the less successful.
--------
But the last thing on this earth a liberal will tolerate is differences and diversity.
And hypocritically worship the words
Real differences is what they hat with passion.

Intolerance is what they are all about, for any differences.
They do not tolerate conservative opinion, or the Christian faith.
Full of the devil is what they are.

Example
Of which there is an ocean of them like this for how intolerant they are of difference if they are real differences like male and female.

An amazing story in how did this sort of warped idiocy ever get into a court house?
Court must be a crazy as this story shows a lesbian is.

LAW OF THE LAND
Lesbian demands custody of Christian mom's 6-year-old
Ex-partner argues in court faith 'is harmful to children'
Janet Jenkins, has alleged that because of Miller's Christian parenting practices, she no longer is a fit mother. She's seeking full custody of the child.

The Vermont Supreme Court already has granted parental rights and visitation to Jenkins. But Miller and her daughter live in Virginia, and Miller has gone to the state's highest court defending her right to custody and to raise her own daughter according to Christian parenting principles.

"This hearing will determine whether a lesbian woman who is Lisa Miller's former partner will share custody of Isabella, Lisa's daughter," wrote Matt Barber, policy director for cultural issues at Concerned Women for America. "The woman is neither an adoptive parent nor is she biologically related to Isabella. In fact, she's a total stranger to the little girl.
http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=61875
----------

Everyone see this?
""The woman is neither an adoptive parent nor is she biologically related to Isabella. In fact, she's a total stranger to the little girl."

incomplete list
you missed a couple of biggies...
1 Liberals believe that all academicians and scientists
are happy, peaceful, and well intentioned. They believe
that their work is for no reason other that the benefit of mankind and is directed toward the development of a
happy "one world order" just like the the liberals have planned. (never mind those working for rouge state or terrorists who are creating biological/nuclear weapons)

2 We dont need a military or any weapons if liberals are in charge. they believe that they are so much smarter than everyone else that once they "negotiate and use diplomacy"
anyone listening will immediatly see how brilliant they are and will have to agree with them.

Incomplete List (continued)
Liberals absolutely know what is best for everyone. They are obsessed with requiring everyone to do what they know is best for the world - i.e., they are obsessed with controlling us - from before our births until after deaths.*

So instead of unfettering citizens natural right to life and liberty (including carrying handguns to defend their own lives) - which is the best defense against violence - they want to pass laws designed to disarm citizens and make them "subjects" because (____): (enter today's rationale, such as, "guns are bad" or "only the military and police should have guns."

* But the liberal elitists are above having to follow the rules meant for controlling the rest of us. Guess it depends on how you define what "is" means, or how the Queen of Hearts feels today ("Words mean what I want them to mean").

Even more Inconvenient Truths
Absolute Truth. It isn't so much that they are offended by the religious aspects of the 10 commandments that causes liberals to fight to get them out of our courtrooms. It is the fact that they are absolutes. Liberals cannot grow and reproduce in a world where there are absolute values and truths. After all, how can they be all things to all people when some people are just wrong?

problems with daddy.....
I am convinced that if you scratch a liberal, you will find a person who had problem with their father. Their fathers were either absent, disapproving, or indifferent. Liberals then spend the rest of their lives trying to 'repair' that relationship by substituting the government for their father, and expecting it to do everything the ole man didn't.

Few things a liberal hates more than being ignored.

Being critical
Liberals and leftists think it's important to be critical ... except of themselves.

PT
My opinion is that the problems with Daddy the average liberal has are just the reverse: when Liberal Larry wanted to go to Disney World, to pull down his pants in public, to eat worms or to steal toys from Target, Daddy stopped him. And in spite of hours of kicking, screaming and flailing, Daddy stood firm.

Larry and Linda Liberal spend their entire lives once they leave home (if they ever do) proving that Daddy is Not The Boss of Them. An old definition of Maturity is *the ability to do the right thing EVEN IF IT WOULD MAKE YOUR PARENTS HAPPY.

Incidentally, that is why Larry and Linda hate Pope Benedict XVI, too. Because no matter how they kick and scream, His Holiness stands firm.

Liberals are children who
grew up to be...children.
Age has nothing to do with being an adult and these are folks who could not compete as children so they needed the teacher to protect them and now as bigger children, they need the nanny state.

Liberals have to denigrate the military because they realize deep down that these folks are their betters, doing heroic things that liberals cannot do.

Liberals want cradle to grave protection because that keeps them in their comfort zone, they never grew up and want it for the rest of us because they feel guilty about it.

Then they can say "look what we did for you, now we are as good as you are".


7UncmfrtablTruths-perversion of language
As noted by George Orwell in essays and the novel '1984', successful perversion of the language forces everyone (in particular your enemies and would-be dissidents) to use your language, with its built-in assumptions and biases. So, the key to breaking it is to insist on starting conversations and debates with cutting-edge phrases like "It all depends on what you mean by...(social housing, social justice, social security, etc)
OR, "I don't believe in 'human rights' - I think it just means 'Who shall we favouritize today? (And don't mention who will pick up the tab...)'. So, what do YOU mean by 'human rights'? The main work of 'liberals' propaganda machine (we call them socialists in the Great Britain) is capture of the language. If you can ONLY debate in their terms, you are almost always going to lose. Change the terms, get back to reality. Reality is right wing.

Michael JR Jose
UK

PT
"I am convinced that if you scratch a liberal, you will find a person who had problem with their father."

Ha!!! I find that hilarious as well as stupid. Also, hasn't that same argument ben made about gay men or promiscous women? Not enough lap time right? So, you have no real credible sources or scientific facts to back up your assertion do you? By your own thesis, shouldn't George W Bush be a liberal then?

As a liberal, let me give you my personal story. I love my father very much. I talk to him everyday. I make sure we go out to dinner at least once every 10 days or so, just he and I. Ever ince his near fatal bout with prostate cancer, I've even become his personal trainer/ health coach since then. I've helped him stop drinking and have implored him to cut back on his smoking. For a father/son relationship, ours is pretty strong. Of course we have problems, but name me one parent/sibling relationship that doesn't have issues at times? Hell, I'll even go broader for you; Name me one perfect human relationship that never has any sort of problem, big or tiny?

It all revolves around...
personal responsibility. Liberals can't take responsibility for anything and they won't allow anyone else to either.

Watch a liberal challenged on an obvious mistake and they'll immediately point to someone else who made a mistake. Either that, or they'll begin ranting uncoherntly about something unrelated to the subject. It's the same mentality driving big government ideology (you're not capable to caring for yourself, so let government solve all your problems).

Every one of John's truths is manifested by that one concept.

Here's one more profound truth for John's list...A liberal will NEVER acknowledge a mistake without making an excuse for it and will not allow a fellow liberal to either.

another inconvenient truth
- Belief that everyone everywhere acts just like they do, and that *no matter what laws are passed* they will continue to act in the same manner.

A good example is welfare/Medicaid. When it was first implemented the illegitimacy rate in the Black community was around 30 percent, today it is 70 percent. When you pay people to be unmarried mothers thats exactly what they do.

Another good one is capital gains taxes. In the debates Obama was informed that *each time* capital gains taxes have been lowered revenues from it have gone UP not down. Obama stubbornly ignored this fact and still wants to raise capital gains taxes.

When you punish people for investing THEY DO IT LESS.

Superb Article
Hawkins nails this one. I'm waiting for at least one lib to make an effort to debate any of these truths.

We all have our illusions...
...and wouldn't want it any other way.

But here I agree with Hawkins' rather insightful article.

Since man by definition is imperfect, flawed, I think it a bit presumptuous to imply conservatives are immune from viewing the world thru a faulty lens. Beliefs and ideologies are manmade...and man is...flawed...ergo so are his beliefs.

But even as I admit conservatism also is imperfect, I think Hawkins makes a great point on the belief by the left that man is inherently good.

In fact, as Hawkins observes, communism is based on the false assumption that man's supposed goodness will manifest itself in a utopian desire to contribute to the benefit of all, rather than his personal aggrandizement.

What was it Marx said: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"?.

And since man is not evil, but rather inherently good, how could man's institutions(government)be evil?

Which is why the left has this regrettable tendency to be associated with the oppressive power of tyrannical government, for unlike conservatives, the left views government, and its power, as benign.

How could it not?

Definition of Terms
I fully agree with your criticism of liberalism, with one exception. What you are criticizing is not liberalism, it is socialism or fascism. Yes, I know that our contemporary media always use the word “liberal” to describe leftists, socialists, and fascists in order to confuse us. Let us not be confused. The beginning of wisdom is the definition of terms.
Liberalism is the philosophy of freedom. I agree with Ludwig von Mises that the advocates of the freedom philosophy should reclaim the term “liberal” from the leftists who have stolen it because there is simply no other term available to signify the great political and intellectual movement that fosters the free market economy, limited government, and individual freedom.
If you have not read The Road to Serfdom, by Friedrich Hayek, run – don’t walk – to your nearest bookstore and get a copy!

Great RE
So we have one liberal who didn't have daddy problems. Don't you know when statements like PT's are made it obviously isn't about every single liberal lol. I happen to agree with his statement. Ive seen it all around me where I live.

And to be frank, GW has turned more and more liberal. When he took on global warming, that was it.


orlandocajun: you are completely and utterly correct! Ive said that too many times to remember.

Great article
The simplicity of this article is actually its strength. Yet, I fear, the vast majority of liberals cannot comprehend that which goes against what they are fed daily by the main stream media. Like some automaton, they will sit there and repeat, "This does not compute."

#1 Says it All
Left-liberals refuse to acknowledge that barbarism rather than niceness is the natural state of mankind.

That is the primary reason their good intentions always turn into bad results.

Well Said!
Well put and far kinder than I generally say it. Liberals live in a bizarre fantasy world

it's more than 7
Find common ground.
Find what you have in common and build upon it. If you focus on the differences than the differences begin to matter MORE than the commonality and fractions and break-ups occur.

Learn to live in tolerance.
Not everything is vile, evil, or done to perversely disturb you or attack you. Tolerate the teen's next-door loud music while he works on his car, or the loud party of celebration on the next block. The "Family" event at work is not rubbing your status as a (fill in here) in your face. Or even the fact your "beloved" sleeps best on their side away from you.

Too many petty annoyances become full fledged wars.

Two more
Leftists'(they're not actually "liberal") basic argument isn't with conservatism, it's with reality.

Number one, they hate the idea of self-responsibility and personal accountability. That's why they favor the nanny state, gun control, unions, quotas etc., and hate the free market and flat taxes.

Ever note how they flock to occupations where you don't have to bear the consequences of your bad decisions? Government bureaucracies, tenured academia, the media (where ratings, not truth matters), the entertainment industry (an almost complete make-believe world. They can repeatedly fail and still be rewarded.

Number two, they hate free will. How else to explain a platform that treats the abortion of innocents as a right while hysterically opposing the death penalty for child rapists, serial killers, mass murderers, etc.?

FIVE STARS

.....HAWKINS ...

.....You nailed it this time! ...

.....Liberals deny the biological side of human nature ...they believe humans can be conditioned like Pavlov's dogs or programmed like Stepford wives and that all the problems in the world can be solved like a Rubiks Cube if you are smart enough to twist it the right way ...

.....Human behavior can best be understood by studying the underlying biological instincts that are programmed into the genes ...we are just one educated generation removed from the jungle .....COLOSSUS

Another truth
Not all ideas will work. Whenever one of their ideas fails, liberals never find fault their theory; it’s always blamed on poor implementation (“Socialism has never failed because it’s never really been tried.”).

liberalism
Another great accomplishment of liberalism,is zero tolerance in the school system.They can find a six year old guilty of sexual harrassment,simply because the principle is too stupid to mete out the right punishment.

Great Article
"The degree of modern liberalism’s irrationality far exceeds any misunderstanding that can be attributed to faulty fact gathering or logical error. Indeed, under careful scrutiny, liberalism’s distortions of the normal ability to reason can only be understood as the product of psychopathology. So extravagant are the patterns of thinking, emoting, behaving and relating that characterize the liberal mind that its relentless protests and demands become understandable only as disorders of the psyche. The modern liberal mind, its distorted perceptions and its destructive agenda are the product of disturbed personalities."
Lyle H. Rossiter, Jr, MD

PT:

I agree that it’s their “problem with daddy,” but I don’t see them “trying to 'repair' that relationship” so much as to DEFY the father and all father figures. A good article on this is “The True Liberal, The Modern Liberal, and the Environmental Liberal” by Elsworth Baker, M.D. http://www.orgonomy.org/article_terrorism_trueliberal.html .

The amazing thing is it was written in 1965!

Kieth:
Another good book is Jonah Goldberg's "Liberal Fascism."

Ralph Ellison wrote:
"By your own thesis, shouldn't George W Bush be a liberal then?"

Ralphie, old buddy, you just blew your own argument. "W" IS a liberal.



A few more truths liberals need to know.
1) In the words of Thomas Sowell: "Minimizing the consequences of folly maximizes the amount of folly."

If you make screwing up something that is not painful, lazy humans won't bother to work not to screw up. We'll collectively take the "easy way" because of the lack of consequences. This is, of course, why every time liberals grant more free stuff for stupid people, the number of stupid people increases. This is why every time the penalties for breaking a given law are reduced, more of those laws are broken.

2) Diversity for diversity's sake is almost NEVER a good thing.

I live in Worcester, MA, and about 10 years ago Worcester won an award for being the most "diverse" city of its size in the US. Sure, Worcester touts people from practically every culture on Earth. The problem is, as is human nature, each of these cultures simply segregate themselves for each other. Look accross Worcester, and you see "the Jewish community", "the Vietnamese community", "the Brazilian community", "the black community", "the Spanish/Mexican community", etc, all segregated from one another, all pretty much suspicious and hostile of one another.

This is called "Balkanization". Google it, and you'll find out why this is a BAD thing.

really?
So if the nature of people is to be purely selfish are you supporting brainwashing people to change their natures or not?

In reality, human nature is neither purely selfish nor purely altruistic, and as every liberal knows how you raise a child makes a big difference.

But couldn't you make it through your first point without self-contradictory nonsense?

This whole strategy of trying to make people of your political persuasion feel good by caracaturing the views of your opponents is puerile nonsense anyway. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't have any standards.

LON

.....Read or watch the movie "The Lord of the Flies" .....COLOSSUS

I am sure you cons
have noticed just how much conservatives are thoughtful and insightfull and give relevant details. While the libs use vague language and ad-hominem attacks; rarely addressing the issue itself. At least not in a convincing manner.

Really one only has to read the posts to see that most of the brains are on the conservative side.

Ra Ra team!

trughes, you hateful little troll
Modern liberalism is socialism/communism. Modern conservatism is a celebration of American exceptionalism, individual achievement and its rewards, and the liberty that makes it all possible.

I would prefer that liberals leave this country and go to Europe rather than try to re-make this great country in Europe's image.

Oh and trughes
Wha?????

Dude disengage the emotion-

Beowulf
I grew up in s MA, 10 mi from Providence. It was
referred as Little Englnd because of the number of British immigrants who came over to work in textile mills in Bristol CTY, my family among them. There fish 'n chips and pork pies everywhere. It's called LITTLE Portugal now, with their good food everywhere. The early
immigrants English, Portuguese, Fr Canadian, Irish, Italians did keep together culturally, having their own clubs (my folks hosted B ritish
sailors through the local club when they came into Boston to protect lend lease convoys) BUT
the differnce between then and now is they assimilated and became proud citizens via legal
means not amnesty. you are so right about balkanization, what better way to bring a proud nation to her knees to change her?

Keith and trughes
Keith, you're right on about the original definition of liberalism.

"Liberalism used to mean liberating the individual from the tyranny of the state. Now it means liberality with other people's money."

I remember reading this about 15-20 years ago, but but I can't for the life of me remember where.

Trughes, I don't really get the point of your post. This country was emphatically not founded on modern "liberal" principles, but on the conservative "classic liberal" principles implied by the quote above. If you were trying to suggest that the founders were Marxist-secularist-leftist-socialists (called "liberals" today), then you're just plain wrong.

Your second point wholly fails to understand conservatism. We understand -- as did the founders -- that mankind is inherently bad. The founders recognized a twofold solution to this: (1) traditional Judeo-Christian morality, as the goal; and (2) limited government with a system of checks and balances, to prevent concentrations of power that will inevitably be used for bad purposes.

Finally, conservatives obviously don't believe in privatizing "everything" and living in a state of nature according to the law of the jungle. We believe that there should be simple, easily understood and consistently enforced rules against private violence, theft, extortion, and fraud, and in the enforcement of private contracts.


Change is often a bad thing
And sometimes change is a good thing. Like not spending any more money on humans in outer space, the final frontier. Sure, we may have learned a few things by sending Neil Armstrong to the moon.

The space shuttle, moon colonies and a return trip to Mars is a BIG waste on money. Anyone who thinks this is the best way to spend our R&D money on a BIG government program, that does the same thing over and over and over (space shuttle) should hang out at Huff Post.

Let's face it, when it comes to the space program, all the low hanging fruit has been taken!

I'd rather be in Alaska---
Don't you mean Africa?

Remake this country? Have you heard about Thomas Jefferson. Have you heard that the constitution of this country begins with the words: "We the People.." It doesn't say...in fact I cannot even provide a caricature of what an "individualist" constitution would sound like, because the conservative principles are antithetical to a constitution!

I will become less emotional, when you cons and your propaganda machine, these hundreds of syndicated, well paid, propagandists stop lying.

Admit, one of you, that this country was founded on Liberal principles, extending out of the Enlightenment, where it became the common belief, as expressed in the workes of John Locke, that humans, given safe living conditions, are good and do want the common good.

Remember that one reason the Rennaissance was thought to have started in Italy, is becuase Italians saw first hand the corruption of religion. They broke out of the COMMUNISM of the catholic church and upheld the ideals of individualism. The Rennaissance was all about individualism, as was the following foundation of the the greatest system of government ever devised, American Republicanism. But it was founded on Liberal ideals that men were "created equal" and freedom from want leads to freedom of individuals.

If you can't simply admit to that fact, then you have a real problem with history.

If you dodge that question, then you are, of course, cowards, and no better than your medieval counterparts in the Inquistion, who also believed people evil.

Go ahead, knock yourselves out.

zapdoodat: Cradle
NASA is a major de facto R&D arm of the US government- nearly every hi-tech item supporting out current Info tech-based economy (microprocessors, lithium battery technology, telecommunications technology, etc.) all came about because of NASA-related research & development. You are probably wearing a watch containing a microprocessor that can be traced back to NASA R&D.

There is an ongoing debate about the value of continued “manned space flight” vice relatively low cost robot probes that are competing for the same small bucket of NASA funding, but I haven’t the time to do so. Suffice it to say that Earth is a closed “cradle” and if humanity cannot extend itself elsewhere, it will eventually succumb to the same “extraterrestrial events” that have caused at least four mass extinctions (the K-T, 65 million years ago, was the smallest) over this 4.5 billion year history.

zapdoodat: Cradle
NASA is a major de facto an R&D arm of the US government- nearly every hi-tech item supporting out current Info tech-based economy (microprocessors, lithium battery technology, telecommunications technology, etc.) all came about because of NASA-related research & development. You are probably wearing a watch containing a microprocessor that can be traced back to NASA R&D.

There is an ongoing debate about the value of continued “manned space flight” vice relatively low cost robot probes that are competing for the same small bucket of NASA funding, but I haven’t the time to do so. Suffice it to say that Earth is a closed “cradle” and if humanity cannot extend itself elsewhere, it will eventually succumb to the same “extraterrestrial events” that have caused at least four mass extinctions (the K-T, 65 million years ago, was the smallest) over this 4.5 billion year history.

Tacitus: almost right but....
Ratings may mean more in TV land, but look at the slew of eco-flicks going back to Ferngully and Rainman. EVERY ONE was a gigantic box office mega-bomb and they KEPT cranking them out.

Look at all the scare everyone to death "prophetic" anti-nuke flicks like "Project X", Wargames and "Manhattan Project". At to that "Threads" and "The Day After". They were cobbled together because the newsies had convinced all of Hollyweird that Reagan was going to end the world.

Now it's the anti-military and anti-War on Terrorism detritus littering the screens of your average sticky floor multiplex theater. I had SOME hopes for "Home of the Brave" but that turned into a libfest in about 20 minutes. Some snotty kid makes a comment about "flushing a few more Korans down a toilet" and NOBODY bothers to tell the little doofus that it NEVER happened except when a prisoner tore up HIS OWN Koran and flushed it down.

-Ray

trughes
I've seen some outlandish and ridiculous claims on these pages.....but claiming our Founding Fathers were secular socialists is definitely the most ignorant opinion I've ever seen on these pages.

I could post literally thousands of direct quotes that would completely shatter your argument, but what's the point.

Demosthenes
Hi-tech progress happened due to the dreaded private sector. (ie selling one billion transistir radios)

We may have learned a few things during the Apollo program, but still not a good bang for the buck. The private sector is always a better ROI than giving the money to the government.

Anyhow, the space shuttle has been a big waste of money. I remember seeing the first shuttle land back in 1984. Today, 25 years later, we still hold our breath, hoping everything goes ok whenever the shuttle takes off or lands.

It's time to give up the dream of planting a US flag on some extra-terrestrial orb and spending trillions of tax dollars doing so.


Trughes said,
"Admit, one of you, that this country was founded on Liberal principles, extending out of the Enlightenment, where it became the common belief, as expressed in the workes of John Locke, that humans, given safe living conditions, are good and do want the common good." (12:11 PM).

Wasn't there an early Puritan spelling primer that was quite popular? It taught that, "In Adam's fall, we sinned all."

Uncomfortable Truth For Conservatives
The GOP candidate is a liberal.

Carbon taxes, closing Gitmo, and amnesty await us regardless who wins.

zapdootdat: Actually, No...
“Hi-tech progress happened due to the dreaded private sector. (ie selling one billion transistir radios)”

Actually, no, e.g., the initail micro-processor/ transistor miniaturization effort can be traced to the space program. I love debating technical issues w/ non-technical, soft-science people. It's like arguing w/ an "invincible idiot."

“It's time to give up the dream of planting a US flag on some extra-terrestrial orb and spending trillions of tax dollars doing so.

Spoken like a true advocate of the insular “welfare industrial complex”. The People Republic of China thinks differently- they have a national goal of establishing a lunar colony by 2020. If you were intelligent enough (e.g., a degree w/ the word “Science” actually printed on ) , I could explain to you the facets of a “self-sustaining” lunar colony.

You obviously don’t understand the significance of my “extraterrestrial events” comment.

trughes: Delusional
“But it was founded on Liberal ideals that men were "created equal" and freedom from want leads to freedom of individuals.”

How delusional. You forgot that the “individual” concept is based upon traditional Judeo-Christian Dogma. You forgot the influence of Thomas Hobbes as a check for the influence of Locke by the founding fathers- his negative view of the “nature of man” was derived from conventional Judeo-Christian dogma, e.g., the sinful nature of man. Lastly, you mischaracterize today’s “LIBERALS”, i.e., Progressives, as being capable of open or “liberal” thought or tolerating other viewpoints: do Neo-Marxist campus “hate speech codes” & the “fairness doctrine” ring a bell? Speaking as a Libertarian, Libertarians are the closest thing to a John S. Mill “Liberal”.

Read William F. Buckley’s “God & Man at Yale” sometime.


Tacitus X
So many good, thoughtful posts today, but your post is what I believe truly summerizes the issue. Liberals DO NOT do reality and loathe accountability. That's why they react so irrationally when called out on something.

A friend of mine has several children. The lone liberal of the group grieves his parents who are wonderful, supportive, successful individuals. They discussed their disappointment about their liberal child with me and summed it up as gross immaturity and irresponsibilty. All of their other children take responsibilty, accept consequences and succeed...you know, mature, level headed, responsible young adults.

The lefty, who is the eldest, defaults on loans and credit cards, gets things he can't afford, blames EVERYONE for his failures, has zero problem with others paying the cost of his actions, etc. Heck of a nice guy, but typical truth rejecting, responsibility deflecting, accountability objecting liberal.

Ralph Ellison: Actually...
“Ralph Ellison writes: Friday, April, 18, 2008 8:14 AM
PT
"I am convinced that if you scratch a liberal, you will find a person who had problem with their father."

Ha!!! I find that hilarious as well as stupid.”

Actually, you fall under that other progressive group: self-serving, black progressives, i.e., 80% of all hyphenated-Americans who refuse to leave the "Plantation of Entitlement" that is the Democrat party.

By the way, I'm waiting for 1st "affirmative action", Mr. Obama, to have the Democrat Presidential candidacy stolen from him by Ms. Clinton via the DNC Super delegate voter block. What will the hyphenated-American voting block’s reaction be when their “Masters” in the DNC? Will Douglas Wilder lead a 1968-esque riot? Will Denver burn?

Aren’t “group-identity” politics wonderful?


Ralph Ellison: Actually..
“Ralph Ellison writes: Friday, April, 18, 2008 8:14 AM
PT
"I am convinced that if you scratch a liberal, you will find a person who had problem with their father."

Ha!!! I find that hilarious as well as stupid.”

Actually, you fall under that other progressive group: self-serving, black progressives, i.e., 80% of all hyphenated-Americans who refuse to leave the "Plantation of Entitlement" that is the Democrat party.

By the way, I'm waiting for 1st "affirmative action", Mr. Obama, to have the Democrat Presidential candidacy stolen from him by Ms. Clinton via the DNC Super delegate voter block. What will the hyphenated-American voting block’s reaction be when their “Masters” in the DNC? Will Douglas Wilder lead a 1968-esque riot? Will Denver burn?

Aren’t “group-identity” politics wonderful?


Correct: typing too fast....
“Ralph Ellison writes: Friday, April, 18, 2008 8:14 AM
PT
"I am convinced that if you scratch a liberal, you will find a person who had problem with their father."

Ha!!! I find that hilarious as well as stupid.”

Actually, you fall under that other progressive group: self-serving, black progressives, i.e., 80% of all hyphenated-Americans who refuse to leave the "Plantation of Entitlement" that is the Democrat party.

By the way, I'm waiting for the 1st "affirmative action" Presidential Candidate, Mr. Obama, to have the Democrat Presidential candidacy stolen from him by Ms. Clinton via the DNC Super delegate voter block. What will the hyphenated-American voting block’s reaction be WRT addressing their “Masters” in the DNC? Will Douglas Wilder lead a 1968-esque riot? Will Denver burn?

Aren’t “group-identity” politics wonderful?


Demosthenes
If you think the best way to compete in the 21st century in the manufacturing and hi-tech industries is to spend trillion of dollars on a BIG government project, then you are a lunar-tic and a socialist.


trughes
Please go read Federalist #10. http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa10.htm

And Washington's farewell address.
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/washing.htm

Both discuss the danger of faction and of natural human vice leading to injustice and bad government.

Washington also states that religion ad morality are the "indispensable supports" of our system of government.

I have some more "analysis"...
...for you simpletons.

1) Liberals are dumb.

2) Liberals are anti-American.

3) Liberals are socialists/communists/appeasers.

4) If something goes wrong, it's a liberal's fault.

5) If a conservative does something wrong, it's a liberal's fault.

6) If the world dislikes America, it's a liberal's fault.

7) If the world likes America, it's a liberal's fault.

8) If someone thinks I'm a simpleton, it's a liberal's fault.

Geez, with this type of "analysis," I too should have my own TownHall column.

Demosthenes
"The People Republic of China thinks differently- they have a national goal of establishing a lunar colony by 2020."

We are supposed to follow the lead of Chairman Mao and his little red book now?

in God's image?
seems like humans are not created in God's image. Humans are evil and stupid, not liberals. Being a nurse and having seen both birth and death, humans are just animals, and there are many more species that are better and more dignified than ourselves.

Virginia Patriot
"Uncomfortable Truth For Conservatives
The GOP candidate is a liberal."

"Carbon taxes, closing Gitmo, and amnesty await us regardless who wins."
-------------------------
Can't argue with you. McCain and both Dems PROMISED to do all of the above mentioned. If we aren't afraid of McCain, then we have no reason to fear Hillary either. Their only difference is in what they 'say' regarding Iraq.



it's not ALL liberals fault
Great patriot - you make humorous points with your sarcasm (1:11 post)but alas I disagree on some.

1 - a lot aren't dumb, just naive and misguided
2 - Actually, I'd say leftists are anti-american
3 - They do support some or many aspects, mainly out of an ignorance of history - Most liberals seem to think history began in January 2001
4 - most of the time but not always
5 - nope
6 & 7 - the world doesn't hate or dislike america, the left does (see italy, France and Germany's pro-american leadership)
7- if someone thinks you are a simpleton, it's likely your fault though possibly not true.

Liberals and their fathers
For those who think PT's comment in his 6:55 am post that a liberal is a person who had problems with his father is outrageous, well, judging by an observation a former pastor of mine made years ago, I say he's not so far off the mark as many might think. That former pastor used to say that whenever he met a man who told him he was an atheist, the first thing my pastor would say to the man was to ask him what kind of a relationship he had with his father. And almost without exception, it would turn out that the atheist had a very poor to non-existent relationship with his own father. What was the connection, said my pastor? That a person who has not been able to experience a loving and caring EARTHLY father is going to have a hard time believing that he has a loving and caring HEAVENLY father. While admittedly my pastor was talking only about atheists, not about liberals per se, the leap from atheists to liberals in general regarding their relationship with their father and how it caused them to develope the worldview they did is not a bridge too far in my mind, given that the vast majority of atheists I've heard about, heard from, and met are very definitely hard-core liberals (I'd certainly say that's true, in reading their posts to this website, of the vast majority of confessed atheists who post to TownHall). I say PT is on to something more true than a lot of those who ridicule his statement know.

trughes
"But it was founded on Liberal ideals that men were 'created equal' and freedom from want leads to freedom of individuals."

You got the part about men being created equal right, but where did you get this business about freedom from want leading to freedom of the individual? It's not in the Declaration of Independence nor in our Constitution, so how could our country be founded on such a principle?

A quick search of the Internet led me to FDR, who is definitely NOT a founding father. If you've got a founding father in mind who said this, let's see who it is.

Demosthenes-Thank you for agreeing.
"You forgot the influence of Thomas Hobbes as a check for the influence of Locke by the founding fathers- his negative view of the “nature of man” was derived from conventional Judeo-Christian dogma,..."

You mention George Washington, who while a trustworthly leader, was not a shining light of intellect (as he misspelled constantly). And you mention Federalist papers. Yes, our founders did believe in the free play of ideas and there were many achievements in contributing to our government from both Hobbsians and Lockians. But for this foul propagandist to state that the liberal ideas of John Locke are wrong and misguided, is 100% un-patriotic and he should rather leave this country.

What idiot said I suggested our founders were socialists. The term hadn't been invented. But they did provide pensions to the wife's of Revolutionary soldiers who had died. That's pretty socialistic.

Or do you cons believe that only the military can operate as a purely Socialist organization, providing for cradle to grave safety net for anyone who has served their twenty years. How many of you cons are sucking off that teat, right now?

And you think that providing a stable money supply is not a socialist ideal. "Speaking as a Libertarian", you, of course, avoid the use of roads and that dirty monopoly of state power, Money, I am sure.

Tell me you use money and I will tell you, you are a hypocrite. Your ideas don't work. They cannot work, because you are dreamers and precisely because some of what this quack journalist says is true (and our founders knew it) giving humans free license will allow the one with the biggest stick to be king.

But, once law is established, they believed that men can be free. You Libertarians, unfortunately are out of the argument, completely.

Seven truths
Yes, Dead on. Yell this from the mountain top!

trughes
You again demonstrate your ignorance. A salary or a benefit received for a performed service has nothing to do with "socialism". Comparing "pensions to the wife's of Revolutionary soldiers who had died" and earned military retirements to one of your typical liberal hand-out programs is simply retarded.


Trughes
:Classical liberalism" that is correct. And it did grow out of the enlightenment.
But classical liberalism is the opposite of today's liberalism.

I don't think anyone would disagree that all of the large scale injustice done throughout history has been done by rulers/govt.

Govt is necessary evil. less is better.

SO NOW WHAT?
Hawkins point regarding the effectiveness of the Federal Government and your support for the government doing “As little as possible” is offers nothing more than anecdotal fact and ambiguous desire.

Hawkins point is quite valid, in that the Federal Government, piloted by elected officials, has done a very poor job in many respects. However, as with so many persons who share his apparent ideological stance, he moves to characterize the intent of the supporting American populous and subsequently concludes, rather poorly concludes, that the Federal Governments efforts should not have been undertaken. The logic applied here is Federal Government Involvement=Bad and the supporting evidence offered is Inefficiency. You then rest on the age-old poorly defined desire to have smaller Federal Government, without offering Scope.

So, instead “meeting the challenge” of identifying something that the Federal Government does well”… although I could justifiably point to the Military-National Defense… I will instead challenge you and others to clearly specify your desired scope of Federal Government engagement. I would would further ask that you try to avoid the standard refrain of “Shut Down the Department of Education” etc…… instead… and again… please note the Scope ex:

* Education - Creation & Enforcement of National Standards,

* National Defense - Private, Hybrid or Federally Managed and Constructed Force,

* Health Care - Private, Hybrid or Federally Managed,

… you get the point.

Solutions. Clearly articulated solutions. The hubris of “Look what wrong I can find.” without a clear alternative is a waste of energy and space.


http://whatilearnedthisweek.wordpress.com/

What a perfect example this column is
of my contention that conservatives have nothing to say unless they are sliming liberals.

We must be so, so interesting - we're all you guys ever talk about!

does this column express even one original conservative idea - "original" is the operative word here,

Demon
"Actually, you fall under that other progressive group"

I am a progressive.

"self-serving"

Sounds like the basis of conservative ideology.

"black progressives, i.e., 80% of all hyphenated-Americans"

Ok. So I'm a "hypenated-American". However, African American does not have an actual hyphen in it. Again, who the hell are you to tell me or anyone what they should call themselves? Sorry Mr. Bossman, them days is over!!!

"who refuse to leave the "Plantation of Entitlement" that is the Democrat party."

Haha!!!! So I'm beholden to entitlements? Please show me what govt entitlement I receive? Oh wait, do $30 MetroCheck cards count? As for "plantation", why don't you leave the GOP Trailer Park of Bitterness and Ignorance? You know, there is such a thing as running water right?

"By the way, I'm waiting for the 1st "affirmative action" Presidential Candidate, Mr. Obama"

So Obama is an affirmative action case? Hah!!!

"to have the Democrat Presidential candidacy stolen from him by Ms. Clinton via the DNC Super delegate voter block."

That's notlikely to happen.

"What will the hyphenated-American voting block’s reaction be WRT addressing their “Masters” in the DNC?"

I don't know what African Americans, Asian Americans, Latino Americans, or European Americans will do? I don't speak for over 50 million people. Perhaps you do Demon?

"Will Douglas Wilder lead a 1968-esque riot?"

He's still alive????

"Will Denver burn?"

Why would it burn?

deathstar
Great post. I really think that these people realy don't know what to do with themselves unless there sliming us liberals. I actually find it quite amusing, especially the whole "plantation" comment or the whole "godless, fatherless liberals syndrome".

Again, these are cons. What can you really expect from some of them?

Humanity
leeann writes:

****in God's image?
seems like humans are not created in God's image. Humans are evil and stupid, not liberals. Being a nurse and having seen both birth and death, humans are just animals, and there are many more species that are better and more dignified than ourselves.****

YOur post saddens me.

Yes, we are created in God's image. However, we are not robots. We have the freedom of choice. We can ascend to great heights of nobility, or we can descend to the very basest of spirit. It's our choice.

We're not just animals. We are capable of wonderful things, with our imagination and intelligence. Sure, we are capable of horrific deeds as well, but that does not take away from the beauty we are capable of.

I truly feel sad for you, that you have allowed yourself to be blinded with hatred and disgust for humanity. I pray that God will open your eyes and help you to learn to see the good that's inherent in all people.

Standshisground
Interesting comments. As for athiests, that is your personal experience. I've had a distinctly different experience with athiests. They are some of the most compassionate human beings I have ever met. I remember when my dad had his prostate cancer operation at GW Hospital. My athiest neighbor/good friend worked on nearby K Street at the time. He made sure to visit my father (who he had met on just 2 prior occasions)every day from about 11:30 to about 1 o'clock at the hospital for about 10 days straight. He brought my father everything (sweets, magazines, books, even a CD player) to make sure he was comfortable. I mean, I was so shocked by this display of compassion from this man. I don't know about his father, but I can say my athiest friend has a wonderful, generous heart.

As for PT's comments, I think his/her fallacy was painting liberals with such a broad, wide brush. Again, I speak from personal experience only. I can't speak for the 1/3rd of America that describes themselves as liberals. I also think it is quite demeaning to somehow explain away their political ideology based on their relationship with their fathe