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Friday, July 03, 2009
Carrie Lukas :: Townhall.com Columnist
Government Growth Challenging Liberty this July 4th
by Carrie Lukas
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Millions of American women are busy with July 4th preparations. They are dusting off picnic blankets, preparing potato salad, and making arrangements with friends and family for firework displays. Few have time to thinking about the meaning of our country's founding and how events today may change our country in important ways.

As any school child could tell you, our founders rebelled because they wanted to escape a too-intrusive government. Since then, we have allowed government to expand in ways the founders never contemplated. Presently, our government is expanding once again. American women should consider what that means for their families and our basic rights and liberties.

Federal spending has soared this past year. While it's justified as necessary to stimulate a flagging economy, it's worth asking why our government grew so big even before the banking and housing crisis hit. For decades, the federal government has spent nearly one of every five dollars in the economy. This year, it will climb to about one in four. To support this spending, the government is issuing trillions of dollars of new debt. They claim it's necessary to solve today's problems. But what about tomorrow's?

We are constrained today because our government is already so large and over-extended. That problem will only get worse. Due to promises the government has already made—most specifically spending on Social Security and Medicare—the share of the economy that government will demand is going to continue to balloon.

This isn't just a matter of dollars and cents. This means that your children and grandchildren will have less control over the money they earn and their property because they will have to pay off liabilities accrued this year. That generation will have less to meet global challenges and each family will have less to meet personal ones.

Government is also taking over important aspects of what was once considered private life. Today Congress debates how to reconfigure the healthcare system. We should all ask why we should expect, or want, government to be so involved in this critical aspect of society.

Government health programs are sold as providing access to medical care, but they also restrict access. The rules that govern Medicare discourage doctors from taking on elderly patients. Government health programs guide doctors away from some treatments, and steer them toward others. And, we know from other countries with government-run health systems, that if we go the route of a “public option” for health insurance, such rationing will get worse.

Many have applauded the new law that gives government more leeway to regulate cigarettes. Most mothers instinctively celebrate anything that promises to help keep their children from smoking. Economists and policymakers will debate if efforts to restrict access to cigarettes actually results in more healthy behavior: will kids really smoke less or will it encourage a black market, introducing kids to more dangerous people and products? That empirical question is important, but there's something more fundamental: Isn't it really our jobs, as parents, to discourage our children from smoking? Where does the role of government as parent end?

Such government action is often justified as necessary to promote good health and protect taxpayers since government picks up so much of the health care tab. Thus one expansion of government leads to another.

Once we accept that logic, why should government stop there? There are numerous behaviors that create public health costs, from eating fattening foods and drinking sugary drinks, to driving, hang gliding, playing football, sunbathing and having sex outside of marriage. Should government discourage these behaviors? Many will look at the list and find one that they think justifies government action and then shake their heads that it's absurd for government to be involved in the others.

But our heads shake at different things. The founders knew that. That's why they sought to limit government and leave the vast majority of decisions to individuals. Individuals were supposed to keep nearly all of their property so that they could provide for their own healthcare and houses, take care of their children, and pursue their idea of happiness free of government interference. That faith in the individual is the core of our country. It's worth celebrating—and preserving—today.

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About The Author

Carrie Lukas is the vice president for policy and economics at the Independent Women’s Forum and author of The Politically Incorrect Guide to Women, Sex, and Feminism.

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Time for another declaration
This fourth of July is a good opportunity for Americans to get together and say NO. With TEAparties going on all over the land, it's time we decided carry our protest to the state capitols, to our elected representatives offices and if need be, to Washington.

We need to tell those in our state governments that we insist that they invoke the ninth and tenth amendments and tell Washington that we have had enough, and if they don't stop, we will refuse to recognize their illegal powers.

We need to not just talk Constitution, we need to read and understand that document.

There are enough of us freedom loving Americans to make a difference if we pull together.

The theme in this weekend's TEAparties should be "It's time to take action". It is time for the people to rise up and demand that the government return to its proper role under the Constitution, and if they refuse, we can exercise our rights as individual states to secede from the central government. What we have now is a far shot from what the founders envisioned, and its well past time that we, the people, put our collective foot down. Our elected "representatives" sure as hell aren't doing it!

health care, another nail in the coffin
of our economic freedoms. Regarding the governments take over of health care,currently proposed, if you do not accept some form of health insurance you will be fined a grand. I've not had health insurance for over 5 years, didn't need it, and saved a ton of money. Thats the rub though. I should have been paying, even though needed it not, so someone else can enjoy the free ride. I shouln't have been so greedy with my own money, right? Wrong. I owe no man either a living or a free ride to the clinic because they stubbed their toe.

A fine example of the problem we face in America today. The problem is that no one person living in the United States of America lives in a country that our founding fathers intended for us. That is the legacy and the shame of the progressive movement of the last 100 years. A cancer that has rotted us from within. Yet we continue to feed this cancer with more powerhungry and corrupt politicians.
Our greatest failure as a people was to make politician a career choice.

This 4th of July, when we cook out and blow wads of money on fireworks, perhaps instead of thinking how proud we are as Americans, perhaps we should somberly reflect on how we threw away our freedoms for some form of government hand out.

Ho-Hum
Carrie Lukas states initially in her article, “As any school child could tell you, our founders rebelled because they wanted to escape a too-intrusive government.” What she fails to mention is that it was a 'foreign' government—which makes all the difference in the world. (A difference that conservative fail to realize when they're appealing to the Founding Fathers Argument.)

But there's one thing she's to which she alluded is correct, that the Founding Fathers 'never contemplated' many things. But to suggest as to what and what not they—as a group—may have agreed, based on our own predilections, is truly Simpletonian.

Exit Plan

The government has taken unprecedented actions over the past 15 months to stabilize the economy, including taking direct ownership stakes in private companies. This creates a dangerous conflict of interest between the federal government and the private sector. The government shouldn’t be an owner of companies it regulates in the private marketplace.

http://www.johnthune.com/exitplan

Not so!
Tad in FL contends that the Founders wanted to escape a foreign government. Not so. What became the founding states of the US were British colonies, dependant on the British government for defense and other government services. This is why the Brits referred to our founders as rebels.

The British citizens in North America were quite happy with their status until the British government got carried away with taxing the colonies for expenses incurred in defending those colonies. Had the colonies been allowed suitable representation on Parliment, there probably wouldn't have been a rebellion. Unfortunately, Lord North's government was short-sighted and arrogant.

As for the gist of this article, the author is correct. Our unconstitutional government is too involved in our private lives.

It's not government growth that . . .
. . . challenges our freedom today and tomorrow.

Ihe root cause is, among other things, complacency, illiteracy and ignorance of the public.

What's helping manifest the result of all that is the very present cultish, intolerant, fear-driven and entitlement mentality of those who helped install, through whatever means they could employ, the neo-Marxist, anti-American, citizen-of-what-country?, apparent closet-Muslim in the White House.

Aiding and abetting him in his attempt to overthrow America and break its financial and cultural backs are the Marxists/socialists/call-them-what-you-will Democrats and their allies in Congress, as well as the in-the-tank-for-Obama advocacy/adversary "news" media.

None of them seem to have an inkling of what freedom means or costs.

But they may find that, having initiated the Second American Revolution now through their arrogance and anti-Americanism, there are still lots of Americans that do.

And those Americans, who outnumber those who wish to destroy out country, may not and will not rollover as neatly and obediently as the neo-Marxists want.

Tad
Your grip on history is tentative at best. The British government that the founders rebelled against wasn't foreign. It was the government that ruled over them, The Fact that the center of power of the British empire was in England didn't change the fact that we at the time were Subjects of the British Crown.
And yes we do know how they would have felt about this government, that was made very clear in the writings and their documents.
Read the Declaration of Independence.. It says "When any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the peoples right, their duty to throw off such government...Key Word Being ANY..

Heres what we do know.
Inserted into the Cap & Trade Bill is a provision that will require Homeowners to get their house approved by the Federal Government before they are permitted to sell it.

Liberals support the Cap & Trade Bill.


CEO of Chrysler: Obama
Using Bill Press (Obama puppet CEO as frontman)
Closes Fenton, Mo. Dodge Ram plant.
Workers told to pack up their tools for shipment to Mexico. All this with your taxpayer bailout money.

Change you can believe in.

Tad - on The Founders ..

The strawman argument Statists always trot out starts with "The Founders never anticipated ...", from which they leap to the conclusion that The Founders, The Declaration of Independence, and The Constitution are irrelevant should be summarily ignored as quaint antiques. Most of our political class cynically ignores this legacy and their oaths, save for superficial mention when it is politically advantageous to do so.

This reveals an egregious misrepresentation (perhaps intentional) of what The Founders were about. The Founders basic subject matter was *human nature*, something which we can treat as relatively invariant over time. If that were not the case, Shakespeare, the Bible, the Torah, and the ancient history of various cultures would be indecipherable to we alleged "moderns".

The Founders great intellectual gift to all of us came in two parts: (1) their distillation of Natural Law as it applies to human beings in the timeless, powerful, easily understood formulation found in the Declaration of Independence, followed by (2) the specification for an architecture of government that overtly recognizes human nature and Natural Law, captured in The Constitution.

That insight, folks, is timeless, and is true whether one lives in an agrarian or urban setting, uses steam locomotives and telegraphs or hypersonic aircraft and wireless networks. Similarly, it is true whether one enjoys minuets, rap, or country music.

That legacy cannot be lost without a fight - refreshing the Tree of Liberty is costly, but well worth the price.

And you expected different?
We started this government with a bit of paper purportedly limiting government. That paper was signed by nobody, and contains no enforcement mechanism for those who violate its tenants. The ones who pass the laws under this arrangement cannot be held legally responsible for what they do in Congress. The same Congress approves the very justices that are supposed to interpret the Constitution. And there is no provision anywhere for the states or the people to object or withdraw their consent from this form of government.
Yet, you're SURPRISED this resulted in an out of control behemoth of a government hell bent on stealing all it can and gaining as much power as possible. In the words of Lysander Spooner, "either the Constitution authorized such a government as we now have, or was powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
Constitutions don't work. They never have They never will. Stop trying. It's embarrassing.

Leftards HATE growth!!!!!!!!!!!
REAL growth (the Eighties under Reagan) creates REAL jobs for REAL people in the PRIVATE SECTOR! They want to kill millions of current jobs and replace a portion with government MAKE WORK sinecure positions.

Think toll takers, meter maids, sanitation inspectors, DMV mooks and other leeches. These goons canvass nabes, stuff envelopes AND ballot boxes and rig elections. THEN their grateful masters reward these oxygen thieves with largesse in the form of non-essential government jobs.

Notice what whenever a state gets into trouble and the people scream "no new taxes!!" the response is "We'll have to cut services." and the implication is cops, firemen, sanitation and other essential services. This is to SCARE us into bending over and letting them have their way with the taxpayers again.

For ONCE why don't they cut the 42 layers of redundant and unnecessary civil service LEECHES that infest the bloated bureaucracy?

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!!

And we don't need their rotten
socialists medicine because:

Statistics on the uninsured and why vast medical reform is NOT Needed"

c. 46,000,000 lack health insurance (Bureau of the Census) :**

1) 70% of the uninsured are between ins.’s and do not lack coverage for a year (Census).
2) 20% are illegals (Kaiser Family Foundation)**
3) 10% are chronically unemployable** or homeless,** or otherwise MIA socially (Kaiser Family Foundation);

Of the above:
33% live in households earning over at least $50,000 a year and elect not to buy ins./21% live in households making over $75,000 annually (Census).
25% are between 18 and 35 and deliberately do not cover themselves. Their med. exp. average c. $1000 a year out of pocket (National Institute of Health).
34% are children eligible for Medicaid or SCHIPS, but are not registered. They can be treated for small or greater med. problems at any emergency room, which is what the uninsured usually elect to do (Families USA Wed).

The costs for 2008 for emergency room care for the uninsured was $1658 a person or $86 billion (Psychiatric News, September 19, 2008). BUT THAT’S A LOT CHEAPER THAN THE $1.6 TRILLION PROPOSED BY KING ELECT O AND MINIONS.

The Office of the Budget predicts BEST CASE $1.6 trillion, but John McCain says that cost will be minimally $3 TRILLION.

(CBO estimation that says O's numbers for med. *reform* are well under evaluated.)
Regardless, with the $1 TRILLION stimulus and $1.6 TRILLION deficit, there is no money.
Overall it would be cheaper, less invasive of privacy, less crippling of America medical services just to give tax credits of $1600 to each uninsured for the usually one year they are uninsured.

** Census estimate, but MIT says the 46,000,000 number is actually bogus, as the 7-30,000,000 illegals (however many) will not be covered by any plan, and the homeless number is very high as it has never come in above 3 million in any real count.)

I'm going to a tea party in Jackson, NJ
you can join one: teapartypatriots.org.

Take back the streets and the country.

Atlanta Tea Party
If you are in the Atlanta area, come on out to the Tea Party at the Georgia State Capitol starting at 4 p.m. if you can.

The dirty rotten scoundrels of the Georgia GOP have been trying to tell people that there is no event in Atlanta in order to get them to come to a GOP barbecue fundraiser that is going on at the same time. A lot of people then call the Tea Party organizer, he sets the record straight, and they usually decide to come to the Tea Party.

But it is crap like that which just solidifies the disillusionment people have with the GOP. Unfortunately, since national Republican leadership comes from locales, these good ole boy types are the reservoir of candidates for the national level.

Dead on Bud!!!!
The LOVE to claim "The Founders never anticipated AK-47 rifles so we can ban them." The Founders also never anticipated instant communication over any distance greater than 100 feet either so we can regulate the electronic media to death, right?

The idea of going back to the Founders when it suits THEM is an old and sickening libtard trick.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Government grows while mid class suffers

Spending by the US government has grown this year by 19%... FY 2009 year-to-date compared with same period of FY 2008.

Revenues of the US government have declined 18% comparing the same periods.

Meanwhile, millions of middle class workers have lost their jobs.

What in the world do the Democrats think they are doing? There will be nothing left of the middle class becasue of their wreckless spending.



Government, the only growth industry
In America.
Here's proof.

Government agencies, offices, commissions, bureaus, foundations, divisions, directorates, departments, bureaus, institutes, administrations and "services", and now Czars.


http://www.akdart.com/gov1.html
Executive Branch

Executive Offices
White House Offices
The President of the United States
Assistant to the President and Chief of Staff
Deputy Assistant to the President and Secretary to the Cabinet
Assistant to the President and Chief of Staff to the Vice President
Assistant to the President for Legislative Affairs
Assistant to the President for Economic Policy
...and Director of the National Economic Council
Assistant to the President for Presidential Personnel
...and Deputy to the Chief of Staff
Assistant to the President and White House Press Secretary
Assistant to the President and Staff Secretary
Assistant to the President for Domestic Policy
Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs
Assistants to the President and Deputy Chiefs of Staff
Assistant to the President and Deputy National Security Advisor
Counsel to the President (White House Counsel)
Senior Advisor to the President
Deputy Assistant to the President and Deputy Cabinet Secretary
Deputy Assistant to the President and Chief of Staff to the First Lady
Deputy Assistant to the President and Deputy Counsel to the President
Deputy Assistant to the President and Deputy to the Counselor, Communications
Deputy Assistant to the President and Director,

======================

The above is about .05% of all the different Government agencies, offices, commissions, bureaus, foundations, divisions, directorates, departments, bureaus, institutes, administrations and "services", and now Czars found here:

http://www.akdart.com/gov1.html

SILENCE IS NOT ENOUGH
First: Paul - Ariz:

"Constitutions don't work. They never have They never will. Stop trying. It's embarrassing."

No human institution is perfect. Our republic is the best in the world. Or would you rather have dictators, as we have now?

=========
Our problem right now is that the conservatives do not speak out. They go to Washington and hide their faces.These comments in Townhall are good for us to realize that we are not alone, that there are enough of us to do something - but what?

We could lose our country between now and 1010.

These comments on a conservative blog aren't seen by the right people.

I used to be an artist and arranged shows for my groups - advertising was the key to our success or not. Small restaurants, small businesses (not Macy's) would let us put signs in their windows. It is the small businesses that the poor, the workers, the immigrants will patronize because they are neighborhood places - easy to get to and comfortable.

I suppose that is not as "in" as face book, but it hits a good market and is in front of your face.

I would think it would be cheaper and more effective than television. Television is sort of one-shot. The RNC could print some up - they probably have the equipment. I'd carry some in my car and try to pass them out. Or neighborhoods could gather.

Any comments?


THE GREAT DEPRESSOR
Irony of ironies, the man who would be the next FDR saving the US economy from the "sins" and "excesses" of capitalism is evolving into a new Herbert Hoover turning a recession into the next Great Depression.

Click my name and read my piece: Barack Obama: The Great Depressor

July 4, 2009 Remember American Soldiers

History will record that the American Soldier and those American Soldiers who have fallen, rank in the greatest humans who have ever lived on this planet.

The American Soldier has set free millions in bondage and defended the freedom of America with willingness of the ultimate sacrifice.

The Fallen American Soldier is someone who walked the hero's path. Someone who walked into the heart of darkness for Duty, Honor and Country.

The American Soldier waits for the day that they have lived for and trained for their entire life - to defend until death, their families and America, its citizens and freedom.

The American soldier is the fiercest Warrior ever in history, because their mission is the defense of family, neighbors, America and freedom.

The families of the American Soldier, while their faces beamed with pride, their hearts were filled with anxiety and tears as they watched their American Soldier leave to defend them and this Great Country.

Families and neighbors look with horror as the military vehicle stops in front of the home of the American Soldier, to inform them of the ultimate sacrifice of their hero.

No honor can be too great; every tribute is too small for the Fallen American Soldier and their families.

God Bless the American Soldier and their families!

God have mercy on every American Soldier in our History who has made the ultimate Sacrifice in defense of this 'Great Nation' and setting Humans free all over the World.

Renny
Please be sure to tell us your teabagging experience on July 5th or 6th. Particularly, I want to hear about the thousands and thousands of people who show up.

Simple Detector for spotting Liberals

When someone consistently avoids responsibility - you have spotted a Liberal.

When someone blames his or her own actions on others - you have spotted a Liberal.

When someone chooses convenience over life - you have spotted a Liberal.

When someone thinks consequences are for others - you have spotted a Liberal.

When someone refuses to take care of their own life - you have spotted a Liberal.

When someone looks like an adult and acts like a child - you have spotted a Liberal.

When someone rewards failure and punishes success - you have spotted a Liberal.

When someone thinks stealing is righteous - you have spotted a Liberal.

When someone believes freedom is being controlled - you have spotted a Liberal.

When someone will not accept truth over lies - you have spotted a Liberal.

When someone believes there is a 'Silver Bullet' for every problem - you have spotted a Liberal.

When someone wants truth to be impressed by credentials - you have spotted a Liberal.

When someone thinks facts are feelings and feelings are facts - you have spotted a Liberal.

When someone feels over indulgence produces moderation - you have spotted a Liberal.

When someone thinks more government will decrease bureaucracy - you have spotted a Liberal.

When someone believes more taxes produces incentive - you have spotted a Liberal.

When someone believes not drilling for oil increases supply - you have spotted a Liberal.

When someone believes Barack Obama is not a Marxist - you have spotted a Liberal.

New Department
The Department of Financial Planning to protect Americans from complicated contracts with Financial institutions. I say start with the IRS! http://www.theblacksphere.net

To Pat
I don't see much that's new on this thread---most of this was here yesterday. Same old-same old.

To Pat: Definitely, I think you must carry out your suggestion that conservative thought should be disseminated throughout the land by means of flyers. Let everyone know that you believe Obama is a Communist, an enemy alien, a Muslim, a Black Militant, and somehow both an incompetent fool and a diabolically clever manipulator. Don't leave out the part about how he is sending his Black Militant Thugs Corps to take away your guns and your food (both announced on townhall.com). Warn folks that Obama has set up concentration camps where he is incarcerating all who disagree with him, and a Hitler Youth Corps into which he is seducing our young. And don't forget his gulags, where the elderly are being sent to die without medical care.

Make it clear that the real purpose of government is to enslave the people and destroy the nation. Get your message across that government as we now know it must be ended once and for all. Only then will conservatives be free to install their own government (as one townhall regular has explained, this will begin by taking over Washington, setting up military tribunals, trying for treason all politicians and government employees, and then executing them; this will be freedom's finest hour).

Publish your beliefs far and wide. Then everyone will know how stunningly crazy you are.

lilly the senile commie
look at it from out point of view, you show up daily to spew your hateful comments about amercia and tell of your your sexual fantasies for the fraud posing as president.

Alas you are just that stupid that you think all of this country years for the socialism that you and other haters demand

Earth to lilly, socialism fails everywhere it is forced on the people. And your messiah is both that stupid and vain to think he will make it work.

But as we know the massive deficits run up by your love object mean nothing to you. Why would you care, your are far too old to ever have to assume paying for any deficits your love god runs up.

But it is your fellow socialists/commies in the dimorat party that talk of stifling any criticism. And we have seen the boy president gets angry when criticized.

But it seems just like flap ears, the lilly's of the world only understand more gov't is needed, no matter what the cost or no matter how many freedoms are trashed

Do us a favor, go take your dirt nap and leave running the country to people who want to save it, not destroy it like b hussein obamarxist and his fellow demonrat socialists/commies in the congress led by piglosi and corrupt land deal reid

The Greatest Depression

To continue the discussion of what is coming up in America, many of you have already become aware of Gerald Celente, and for those who have not, you should. Celente's forecast for 2009 is pretty dim - read that dismal and foreboding - but if we are prepared, we can survive "The Greatest Depression." The video on the link below is 9 minutes long - watch it, and learn from it.

Be prepared, my friends - there appear to be very tough times ahead if Celente is accurate in this forecast also (he has a pretty good forecast record in years past).

http://www.trendsresearch.com/forecast.html

Word on the street is that people are already reigning in their spending habits, and that the tea parties are just the beginning of a tax rebellion.

Plan for tough times and if the forecasts are wrong - you end up being a winner. And that's a good thing.

Social Security
I am tired of having the Social Security check I received as an "entitlement." First -- I am a "notch baby" meaning that because of the year of my birth, my check is lower than those born in a different year. Second -- I paid into Social Security all my working life, which was supposed to be an an investment. This money was supposed to be in a "lock box" and was to have earned interest over the years. Instead the money was put into a "General Fund" which the government has been raiding for years. As for Medicare -- this is not free. In addition to my monthly health plan costs, government takes $95.00 a month from my check for Medicare. For those of you expecting Social Security to fulfill its promises -- Good luck.

HAPPY BANANA REPUBLIC DEPENDENCE DAY

.....RUSH LIMBAUGH, always on the cutting edge of societal evolution, has posited that a majority of Americans now prefer dependence on Government rather than independence and freedom ...ergo the election of Obama ...

.....THIS IS THE NEW NATIONAL ANTHEM OF THE BANANA REPUBLIC OF AMERICA...

.....BANANA BOAT SONG - HARRY BELAFONTE

Day-o, Day-ay-ay-o
Daylight come and me wan' go home
Day, me say day, me say day, me say day
Me say day, me say day-ay-ay-o
Daylight come and me wan' go home
Work all night on a drink a' rum
Daylight come and me wan' go home
Stack banana till the mornin' come
Daylight come and me wan' go home
Come, Mister tally man, tally me banana
Daylight come and me wan' go home
Come, Mister tally man, tally me banana
Daylight come and me wan' go home
It's six foot, seven foot, eight foot BUNCH!
Daylight come and me wan' go home
Six foot, seven foot, eight foot BUNCH!
Daylight come and me wan' go home
Day, me say day-ay-ay-o
Daylight come and me wan' go home
Day, me say day, me say day, me say day...
Daylight come and me wan' go home ...

.....COLOSSUS

A Word About Social Security
Used to be "SSI", right? Social Security Insurance. It's a cautionary tale for generations removed from the 30's and the heinous legacy of FDR. Most people never qualified for SSI, because it was intended to be a safety net for the poorest - not a retirement scheme for all. Well, now everyone thinks that magically they pay into a government program where some kind of account is established for them and somehow accrues interest. It does not work that way and we all know that. The joke is we jailed Bernie Madoff for stealing a paltry $60b. The government, through SS, is running a $53 trillion Ponzi scheme! Who is going to jail them?

Government doesn't invest your money. It forcibly takes your money to give to others...now. Social Security is not an investment account. That was why I thought Bush might succeed in reforming that program. He tried to explain that the current system isn't what people think it is which is why it's going broke at a rapidly increasing rate. Get ready for the day when FICA rate of tax is increased on payrolls but you receive NOTHING. Get ready for people making more than $75K to receive no Social Security check. I believe that day is coming sooner than we think.

Obama is Much More Than a Socialist
I agree with Rush Limbaugh on this one. From what I see, Obama wants to be a dictator. Look at his response to the Honduran constitutional crisis. He is siding with a man who, though elected democratically, is being removed (through constitutional process established there) for trying to extraconstitutionally usurp another branch's authority. I believe Obama is a megalomaniac who sees everything he does as a means to an end. Unfortunately the end is establishing his unending power. We should never entrust anyone with power to "run" the country. This is the big problem with an overarching executive branch which has grown steadily over the past 40 years.

The president doesn't "run" the country, OK? When did everyone forget that there are 3 co-equal branches: executive, legislative and judicial. That was 6th grade civics which we no longer teach and why the ignorant youth of this country think Obama runs the country. Soon, he really will!

Bud

Bud writes, "The strawman argument Statists always trot out starts with "The Founders never anticipated ...", from which they leap to the conclusion that The Founders, The Declaration of Independence, and The Constitution are irrelevant should be summarily ignored as quaint antiques."

You hit the nail squarely on this one. Notice Tad The Lad's condescending "Ho Hum" post title, undoubtedly to cover up his monumental ignorance. I doubt the little one has read even the Declaration and Constitution, never mind the founders writings.

TIME TO RE-VISIT ORIGINAL DECLARATION
…..When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another …

…..We hold these truths to be SELF-EVIDENT, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Government are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…

…..That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it …

…..COLOSSUS

lilly

Lilly posts, "Publish your beliefs far and wide. Then everyone will know how stunningly crazy you are."

And you just keep on posting here on TownHall and reminding all of us how stunningly stupid you and your idiot lib friends are.

liberty isn't threatened
by fixing the mess George Bush and company created.

and the Declaration of Independence has no legal impact on the present USA--on 1776 Great Britain, you betcha.

Lonny from bankrupt California

Lonny from California quips, "liberty isn't threatened by fixing the mess George Bush and company created."

Fixing? Yeah, Barry's making a lot of progress "fixing" Bush's mess.

By the way, how're those free-spending, high-taxing, big-borrowing policies wotking out for you in California?



Lonny
Liberty is threatened when the government takes over private industry because it's "too big to fail". The insurance, banking and auto industries have all been deeply intruded by the federal government illegaly skirting bankruptcy laws.
The health care industry is next. Our children and grandchildren will effectively be serfs to the almight federal government.
But this new feudalism seems to be exactly what you leftist/statists want from Lord Obama.

America the Beautiful

Too bad conservatives want her economic and military policies to fail. Oh well, they still have their greed to hold onto.

A Simple Choice
We have a simple choice to make. Do we want to preserve as much of our freedoms, or are we willing to lose some of our freedoms for what we believe is more safety. It seems to me that answer is clear. Many of us, if not most of us, are willing to sacrifice our freedoms for what we believe is a little more safety.

Glenn
I guess we can hold on to our "greed" but not our wallets, cause Obama picked mine.

Carrie
"Due to promises the government has already made—most specifically spending on Social Security and Medicare."

We could have used your insightful article back in 2003 when the Republicans added yet another layer to Medicare spending that the Heritage Foundation said will cost $800 billion over its first 10 years. All of it paid for with a tax cut.

Lonny
Yes, the Republican party created this mess.

We conservatives completely missed the boat the previous eight years. The Republican party oversaw a larger increase in goob-mint than when Bubba Clinton was president.

The Republicans doubled the size of the Department of Education. - No Tea Party.

The Republicans mandated ethanol subsidies. - No Tea Party.

The Republicans increased pork barrel spending from 3000 to 14,000 annual projects. - No Tea Party.

The Republicans added another entitlement spending program. - No Tea Party.

The Republicans embarked on a 100 year social engineering project in Iraq. - No Tea Party.

Last fall, the Republicans needed $700 billion 'quick and clean' as just a start to bail out Wall Street. - No Tea Party.

Now, after an eight year slumber are we conservatives going to be tricked into supporting Republican sponsored Tea Parties? I think not.

Happy 4th
An outstanding, yet very plain way of saying, "Government, get the hell out of my life!" This article should be required reading for all those knuckleheads in Washington and every state house in the land, regardless of party affiliation. Both Democrats and Republicans are to blame.

Shor memory, DB?
Glenn
I guess we can hold on to our "greed" but not our wallets, cause Obama picked mine.

REPLY:

My IRA was halved before Obama even took office. Thanks, neocons, for the war, corruption, and incompetence. Would you like to govern some more?

zap
with all due respect, it is never too late for the concept of the Tea Party.

Big Government Conservatives
Thanks to the Bush administration, government is BIGGER than ever.With full support of Conservatives Bush ballooned the size of government 60% in just 8 years.

Bush also squandered the huge Clinton surplus and wasted another $2.2 Trillion on the Iraq fiasco throwing our nation into debt and receivership to China.

Additionally, Bush's tax cuts fleeced low and middle class U.S. taxpayers while reallocating money to a small group of wealthy elites who promptly offshored the gift and parked close to a trillion dollars in Switzerland's tax-free UBS bank. Thanks to Swiss bank secrecy laws, money in secret accounts is not subject to identification or taxation.

All of these Conservative policies will inevitably end up either bankrupting our nation or increasing taxes.

While Conservatives talk the talk of small government, fiscal responsibility, and low taxes, we have seen that their policies are in direct opposition to their stated goals.

Is it naivete' fraud or stupidity by the GOP? Perhaps a mixture of all three?

What we have learned as an invariable truth of the Republican Party is that it cannot govern, cannot manage the economy, and routinely elects candidates who claim "family values" "honesty and integrity" yet won't even keep their fly zipped (Larry Craig, David Vitter, Sen Ensign and Mark Sanborn) or simply quit when the going gets tough (Sarah Palin).

And now they want to lecture to Americans? On what moral grounds? On what basis of success, accountability and integrity? There is none. Conservatism is a dead end and politically unworkable fantasy of what never really was or can be.

Big And Good Government
The Republican cry for smaller government is misleading. Big and bad government has been biggest and baddest under the Bush administration. The present government continues being interested only in the needs of lobbyists, disregarding the needs of small businesses and the individual. Big and good government would meet the needs of 90% of the American people. Let us not throw out the baby with the bath water.

There is no big and good government
Conservatives did not support Bush's expansion of government. That is exactly what put the Republican party into its current state. Both Bush's attempted to liberalize the Republican party and set the stage both times for Democrat resurgence.
The leftist arguments that Bush did it, so quadrupling it must be great is BS.
Big Government is bad because Reagan was RIGHT. Government is not the solution, it's the problem.

Reply to Scott in WA
You said:
"An outstanding, yet very plain way of saying, "Government, get the hell out of my life!" This article should be required reading for all those knuckleheads in Washington and every state house in the land, regardless of party affiliation. Both Democrats and Republicans are to blame. "

Thanks to Bush with his "Patriot Act", and serial Constitution breaking wire tapping scheme against innocent Americans, suspension of habeas corpus and torture to silence critics, deny fair trials and violate basic human rights, and illegal war in Iraq, Americans live in a morally and fiscally impoverished nation that where government elites are above the law and won't be prosecuted. Some Democrats are also guilty of signing the Patriot Act which allows the Commander in chief to have sole authority to decide and imprison indefinately anyone he personally believes might pose a threat to our nation.
Critics and Constitution lovers of every stripe are in danger if they speak out too harshly against the government, for although free speech is still protected, your personal freedom is in jeopardy and you can legally be locked away in a dungeon without rights or councel if you chose to cross the line.
This is Bush's legacy and (now) Obama's power.

The Failure of GW Bush is to Blame
What did GW Bush do about the recession? He left it for President Obama to fix. What did GW Bush and the republicans do about health care, crumbling schools, a corrupt and greedy Wall Street and their bad foreign policy? They left it all for President Obama to fix!

Quit complaining and DO SOMETHING to help this country. GW Bush left it in a huge mess.

Really??

America – You’re screwed! The primary responsibility of a government is to its citizens and to its culture - otherwise a government isn’t legitimate. Today, American government isn’t looking out for your best interests, and you know it.

Your immigration policies are not being enforced and your American culture is being destroyed by open borders. You have a money system that is insolvent. Your government is largely controlled by the international financial community (think of the Fed for a moment), and not by you. Your president is a trained Marxist, and he’s ramming your country down the road to communism just as fast as he can do it. Your congress doesn’t consider the constraints imposed by your nation’s constitution - ever. Your elections are fraught with government sponsored voter fraud (Acorn). Your government has killed your manufacturing sector, and is now buying up huge businesses like GM. Your medical systems are about to be taken over by an ever onerous and destructive government. Your environment is the cleanest and best in the world, but you are told you are bad and that you must lower your lifestyle to stop destroying the world. Your president tells the rest of the world America is bad. You will soon become disarmed, and your taxes have become the highest in the world. Etc., etc., etc.

Summary: Government is NOT your friend. No-one in government is protecting you, your American heritage, or your parent’s way of life. You will be passing down a totalitarian state and communist regime to your own children. Alternatively, your wonderful, God and freedom loving American republic will be divided into several city states, no longer a powerful force in the world. Is that what you intended? Get used to it – this is your future.

Sound harsh? If you and your neighbors don’t do anything to control your own government, this is what will continue to happen. This is real.

Sheep no more?
So conservatives opposed Bush's policies? They sure kept it to themselves.

Government as abstraction
Conservatives repeatedly make a logical error in separating things that are not separate. Government is one of these things.

Our government today is in no way separated from history or from all the people in the United States. Conservatives like to demean "bureaucrats" as bad people. But bureaucrats are human beings and American citizens, who may also be leaders in their churches, in family and community activities, as volunteers, etc. To separate an individual by one characteristic, i.e., working for the government, is nonsensical. It's bad thinking.

The United States government has been inseparable from all the activities in our history and has evolved because of the ideas, the discussions, the wrangling of all the people who have lived in the United States until now.

Saying that government is separate from life is simply bad thinking.

A Difficult day for Barack and Michelle

July 4th must be the most difficult day of the year for Barack and Michelle Obama.

IF they believe in a Hell? This must be what they think it will be like.

People celebrating the Birth of the Nation they hate so much.

All of the Flags and celebration of American Patriots, must make them nauseous and their skin crawl and the worst part, they must 'Act' like they agree.

To DB in TN
You said:
"Big Government is bad because Reagan was RIGHT. Government is not the solution, it's the problem."

If Reagan WAS right, than he had no business running for office or governing because his role was fundamentally dismantlive and essentially destructive fo basic institutions to serve the public.

Those who fundamentally dislike government should not then pursue office only to ruin it. We saw Bush II do his utmost and almost succeed in ruining our nation through out of control spending, worshipping wealthy elites, relaxing consumer safety laws to injure the public, shielding banks from prosecution from loan sharking, losing 2 wars, smashing our Constitution, and even beating out Reagan in terms of total corruption, immorality and incompetence.

Government is a necessary part of civilization and must be transparent and held accountable for its actions, spendin, and policy.
No secrets should ever be allowed if public money is being used.The "national security" argument is merely a facade to hide out of control spending and fraud. If the government is of, byand for the people, there is no legitimate room for secrecy.

Government is necessary to regulate industry and limit the wealth of greedy elites as well as provide basic law and order. Electing more Republican "government haters" to office only insures that government will run even worse than it has in the past.

Since government is the only viable choice over anarchy, and the Republican Party is riddled with "government haters" it is therefore philosophically unprepared to lead this nation to any positive future.

Addrea
Do you have ANY CLUE how tired/old and just plain wrong your ongoing case of BDS is.Even if it was a mess when the messiah came into office, he and his buddies have done the almost impossible and made it WORSE.

Proud Liberal CO Jul 4, 2009 - 12:35 PM

Let's say for a moment, that conservatives are law abiding citizens and their government has decided, on its own, and without agreement with the laws of the land or approval of the citizens, to practice lawless activities within the government.

This would support the finding that the government has separated itself from the people - not vice versa.

It is exactly the government, by its own lawlessness, that has declared war on the people.

Go read the Declaration of Independence and then come back and tell us all there are no similarities between the 1790s and the 2000's.

If you listen closely to what conservatives are saying, and without left wing partisanship clouding your thinking, you will find the people just want government to obey the law.

It's that simple.

To Andrea in FL
You said:
"The Failure of GW Bush is to Blame
What did GW Bush do about the recession? He left it for President Obama to fix. What did GW Bush and the republicans do about health care, crumbling schools, a corrupt and greedy Wall Street and their bad foreign policy? They left it all for President Obama to fix!

Quit complaining and DO SOMETHING to help this country. GW Bush left it in a huge mess. "

Bush has never cared about our nation or our citizens. That's why he lead the nation in awarding the death penalty as govenor and even sentencing to death a born again Christian women who had repented for her sins. Bush then went on as President and callously left the people of New Orleans to die after Hurricane Katrina and refusing free medical help and care and doctors from Castro. For Bush, American citizens were expendable pawns for his agenda of personal family greed and power at any price.
Bush also dimissed 51 terror warnings in the Summer of 2001 leading to 9/11 and then started the Iraq war which squandered our military, wasted trillions in taxpayer money and condoned the S&M torture of POW's without any official held responsible.

Many Conservatives have still not yet even realized that Bush is utterly different than the image he created using PR props (chainsaw cutting and buying a ranch in 1999 and other stunts to look like an everyday cowboy) when in reality he was an elite in cowboy clothing.

What Obama Truly Inherited

HAPPY FOURTH EVERYONE PLEASE WATCH THIS VIDEO:

"What Obama Truly Inherited"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZWE553meoE

FIRST (to be a) ZERO
FIRST ---

You have a disjointed, shotgun 'attach
k-mentality' going on today.

Let's work with one thing at this point in time = discussing Liberty v. Tyranny.

Can you describe, in your own thoughts and prose, what each of these principles means to you?

Let the readers here understand what the HELL you stand for ... or, if you so chose, just go blend another beverage and slip quietly into a coma, sitting somewhere in America, taking in each of your breaths provided for you by the brave men and women sacrificing themselves over 200+ years in service to their country, so you could be free and exercise your liberty.

[if you have a problem with my 'read' of your missives, then please set me straight ....]

To First in MA
You're right. Thank you for bringing me to my senses. I don't know what I was thinking.

Government is the answer. Obama and his super majorities are AMAZING. I can't wait until they decide what health care options I'm going to get from their genorisity. I'm sure I'm going to love my government motors car.

God bless you First. I'm seeing clearly for the first time. Obama is wise, Obama is good. Only people who truly love and worship government should be in it and running our lives.

April22
What George Bush inherited and hath wrought.

1.) Under Bubba Clinton the DJIA tripled. Under George W. Bush the DJIA lost 20% over his eight year 'Reign of Error.'

2.) Alan Greenspan said in his book 'Age of Turbulence' that in 2001 there were 'surplus's as far as the eye could see.' Now, guess what, we have deficits as far as the eye can see. (my words)

3.) In January 2001 it took 78 cents to obtain one Euro. After the 'Reign of Error' it took 140 cents.

4.) When the two oil men stumbled into the White House on January 21, 2001 the price of a barrel of oil was $22. Last summer it was a disgraceful $140 a barrel.

Let's face it the Republican party has done a better job at bringing America to its knees than Al Queda.

Liberals didn't Like first Creation

In the beginning God created the Universe and created a man and woman.

This made Liberals very angry and they considered God's creation a 'Mistake'.

Man and woman found that little on the Earth was suited for their survival and they had to work hard to meet their needs.

This made Liberals even angrier, because everything wasn't given to them.

God told the man and woman to procreate and have children.

Liberals began calling children 'Mistakes', because they didn't like responsibilities and more work, so this made Liberals even angrier and they began exterminating as many babies as possible to soothe their anger.

The man and woman found they were 'Different', in their roles and sexuality, this made Liberals even angrier and they began exchanging roles and called themselves 'Metrosexual' and 'Feminist' instead of man and woman.

God told the man and the woman to bond together and become 'One in Marriage' forsaking all others.

This angered Liberals even more and they began choosing to become Homosexuals and not procreate, so that they wouldn't have the little 'Mistakes' and they exchanged 'Love' for 'Lust'.

Liberals began calling this exchange 'Normal Behavior' and God's plan for men and women 'Abnormal'.

God created mankind equal, with 'Inalienable Rights' and this made Liberals insane with rage.

Liberals began sorting out humans and placing them in classes and categories where some classes of humans were more 'Equal than Others' and determined they would decide 'Rights'.

Liberals began 'Stealing' from the producers and those who worked hard, made good decisions and lived by God's directives and giving those 'Stolen Goods' to the indolent and those who refused to work and make good decisions.

Liberals began calling this stealing for 'Equal Outcomes', Patriotic, and a 'Sacrifice for the Common Good'.

Liberals then looked at what they had created and called it 'Social Justice'.

Change from Independence to Indentured

An indentured servant is a form of debt bondage worker.

Historically 'Indentured Servants' were required to work a specific number of years, usually (3 to 7), but the 'Hope' Obama brings with his 'Change', is that the 'Indentured Servants' will only serve from April 15 of one year to April 15 of the next.

The 'Indentured Servitude' class or 'Collective' that Barack Obama is creating, will only be a segment of the American Citizens, comprised of those who willingly work in an attempt to provide for themselves and their families - all others are exempt.

The children of the 'Indentured Servant Class' automatically inherit the 'Debt Bondage' of their parents.

Barack Obama hails this 'Indentured Collective' as Patriotic and a 'Sacrifice for the Common Good'.

This 'Collective' is quite similar to 'Share Cropping', where the worker is allowed to keep a small portion of their labor for personal use.

Barack Obama is NOW destroying the American farmer and food supply, by with holding water to 100,000 square miles of the most fertile land on Earth in California.

The control of the 'Food Supply' is necessary to Barack Obama, so that he can ration enough food for the 'Indentured Servants' to remain alive and work.

Those who are NOT in the 'Indentured Servant Collective' will become the owners and operators, of the 'Indentured Servitude Collective'.

This is but one small aspect of the 'Hope and Change' Barack Obama is bringing to America.

It's Not ABout Bush It
It is not about Bush it is about 2012.

Zapoodat, the other Trolls, Obama and all his administration blaming Bush will not move our country forward one inch.

We must face the fact that that is all our current POTUS is capable of and that he is clueless without his teleprompter.

See him in action without it for yourself
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omHUsRTYFAU

The Recession
Anyone saying portraying GWB’s fiscal policies as “failed” simply does not know what he is talking about. We had the fourth longest economic expansion under GWB. The Tax Relief Act of 2003 stimulated economic activity, increased jobs, increased incomes, and increased tax revenues.

The complaints of deficit spending under GWB ignore an important fact. The largest growth of spending (measured in dollars) has been for social and entitlement programs mandated by older laws. Such spending automatically increases with the population and with inflation.

The current recession is not the result of GWB’s fiscal policies. The history of this recession began with the Federal Reserve Board’s efforts to control risks of inflation prior to 2008. The Fed anticipated a “soft landing” meaning GDP growth would be close to zero without entering into recession. It appeared they were close to achieving that objective through mid 2008 according to data available to the Fed.

However, there were some significant other factors outside the realm of monetary and fiscal policies. One was the energy price bubble. We can all recall gasoline prices in excess of $4.00 per gallon at this time last year. The high price of fuel offset the impacts of the stimulus legislation of early 2008.

When the energy price bubble burst, there was genuine cause for optimism about the economy. Unfortunately, few people were aware of the looming credit crisis and the magnitude of that crisis. By the end of summer in 2008, major banks and financial institutions were collapsing.

The GSE’s (Fannie and Freddie) played a significant role. The GWB Administration sought regulations of the GSE’s to prevent this crisis. Democrats were able to block such legislation.

In early 2009, we needed another Tax Relief 2003. The “Spendulus” legislation is not what we needed. Now we are at risk of entering a second phase of a double dip recession.

A New Way
As long as Americans continue to believe that their success or failure lies with Washington, they will continue to waste their time. How long will it take for us to accept the unpleasant truth that our ruling aristocracy no longer cares, fears, or respects us? There’s no need for them to. They are in office for life because regardless of how they mistreat us, we reelect them. Abusive spouses have no respect for compliant mates.

There are ways to shield ourselves from our ruling kleptocrats (thieves) and their parasitic constituencies and without having to get approval.

States that wish also to free themselves of central planning can adopt ways to attract and keep productive citizens and rid themselves of the two-legged tapeworms that feed of their hosts. To the extent legally possible, states can give incentives for businesses and the gainfully employed, and employable, to immigrate.

For example, state safety nets can be either eliminated, or reduced to the minimum allowable to dissuade democrat freeloading. Creative tax structures can be enacted to reward effort and success and punish liberalism: tax deductions and credits for those who work and tax penalties for idleness and for safety net recipients. And in response to any Federal attempts to trump states’ actions, those states can simply enact more laws that mitigate them. There are infinite creative ways that these can be legislated.

States can aggressively enforce residency and voting requirements to protect against the blatant fraud encouraged by our Federal government.

States that rigorously discourage and disrupt the agenda of our ruling elites will find their budgets and economies sound and dramatic reductions of social pathologies that come with democrat party governance. They will see the numbers of the best citizens increase, and the democrat voters decrease.

Geek

It's a maturity thing. Only adults want to be free and unfettered by government.

Children are afraid to leave home and need to have someone make decisions for them.


However. . . .
However, if legal ways of fostering growth and discouraging liberalism that I just posted are somehow outlawed by the Feds, then the way to cleanse a state of democrat liberalism is to use the methods we saw in the Balkans 15 years ago: physical cleansing. Just remove democrat loafers and parasites at the point of a gun.

Personally, I like this way best. It would be more fun.

Happy 4th, everyone.

D G
"The largest growth of spending (measured in dollars) has been for social and entitlement programs mandated by older laws."

Gee wiz, why did the Republicans add another layer of it financed with tax cuts?

It was the George W. Bush administration and the Republican-controlled Congress who added the $50 billion a year Medicare Prescription, Part D program, while absurdly claiming it would only cost $40 billion a year.

When someone in the Congressional Budget Office wanted to inform Congress that the program would really cost $50 billion a year, the Republicans fired him.

This additional spending program was a handout to the pharmaceutical companies, on the backs of the American taxpayer.

A year later, President Bush campaigned about the looming crisis in entitlement spending. What a joke, this just after the Republicans had tacked on yet another entitlement spending program, paid by dumping the entire cost onto the national credit card.

Do you think an American should be able to shop for drugs in Canada or Mexico if that's what they want to do? The Republican party says that is criminal behavior. Talk about nanny-staters!

April22 thanks

For that link.

Barack Obama is so confused without the Teleprompter - WOW!

liberty
the only way the govt can give something to someone is if they take it from someone else since the govt doesnt produce any goods,we are in a mess with so many people feeling they are entitled to the fruits of someone else labor,i see no other way out of the mess we are in except for the military to stage a coup arrest congress and the president and then start over again we wouldnt be in any worse shape than we are in now,i forget which of the founding fathers said it but its something like from time to time the tree of liberty needs to be refreshed by the blood of patriots

Zapdoodat and First Make More Sense...
They make more sense than Rush, O'Reilly, Beck and Hannity combined. Y'all need a show!

Is Obama Helpless without TOTUS?

Barack Obama enters his White House restroom.

TOTUS: Approach the Urinal and begin peeing.

TOTUS: Unzip pants.

TOTUS: Shake it.

TOTUS: Zip pants.


White House Secret Service Agent: 'We have a problem. We need an emergency mop up in the Presidents restroom and fresh trousers and panties'.

Did POTUS upset TOTUS?

ZAP

Part D in FY 2008 was $43 billion. That was part of the spending by Department of Health and Human Services. The total spending by H&HS was over $700 billion in FY 2008. Therefore spending by H&HS for "old stuff" was over $657 billion.

Again, the greatest increase in federal spending measured in dollars over the current decade is for social and entitlement programs in effect prior to 2001.

As for Part D, the AARP lobbyed for it and Congress and the Adminstration went along with it. It was the practice of the AARP to "represent" its members without contacting the members for their opinions.

Zap...
GWB's approval rating was about 20% when he left office. The country overwhelmingly threw the Republican Party out of power. One of the major reasons for this was because these guys were spending and driving up the deficit and national debt.

So...

Why do you criticize Republicans but give Obama and the Democrats in Congress a pass?

The last administration was awful. The current administration is 4 times worse.

Out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Glenn
SEZ GLENN:
"Sheep no more?
So conservatives opposed Bush's policies? They sure kept it to themselves. "

SEZ ME:
No, you just didn't hear it. It's called seelctive listening.

But you're in luck. We have examples...

Harriet Meiers...defeated by conservatives

Amnesty for Illegals...defeated by conservatives

GWB approval rating of about 20%...who approved of him? Not the libs. They hated him for breathing. Not the conservatives. His approval was from the moderate Republicans.

There were many other instances as well. You just weren't interested in hearing them.

D G
"Again, the greatest increase in federal spending measured in dollars over the current decade is for social and entitlement programs in effect prior to 2001."

Your Drama does not add up. How many Tea Parties did you attend from 2001-2007?

When the Republicans were spending like drunken sailors and simultaneously tax-cuttin, then there is by definition no fiscal crisis.

The Republicans even had enough money to blow $400 million on a bridge to an island with 50 people on it.

You showed nothing but appeasement when it came to profligate Republican spending and now after eight years of slumber like 'Sleeping Beuaty' you wake up and yammer for some Tea Parties.

It just seems to me like your a 'cryer' for the Republican party.

Notice...
Zap...First...Andrea...Glenn...

You seem to be pretty good at pointing out the faults of the GOP and GWB, etc.

But none of them are in charge right now.

Can you defend the $2 trillion and growing deficit of Obama? Can you defend the nationalization of GM, the health care industry, and the tobacco industry?

Everything you criticize the GOP for, the Democrats are now 4 times worse.

You guys are not part of the solution. You are part of the problem.

kbTexan
"Amnesty for Illegals...defeated by conservatives."

Is this a sick joke?

It was the conservative sponsored Republican-Bolshevik party that led to the dramatic increase of illegals into this country under Jorge Bush.

kbTexan
"the Democrats are now 4 times worse."

Is this just a made up number?

Has no one told you we already have a single payer healthcare system?

A heard an elderly lady say in the grocery store the other day, "Please do no let Obama and the Democrat party get their hands on Medicare."

Let's have a real conversation.

Founders Thoughts:

The suppression of unnecessary offices, of useless establishments and expenses, enabled us to discontinue our internal taxes. These covering our land with officers, and opening our doors to their intrusions, had already begun that process of domiciliary vexation which, once entered, is scarcely to be restrained from reaching successively every article of produce and property.

Thomas Jefferson
March 4, 1805

http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?docume nt=665

More Or Less
On this Fourth of July, can you say we have more fredoms, or do we have less freedoms?

Huh?
Obama "cleans up Bush's mess" by increasing the speed of destruction...

I guess that only makes sense to a lliberal.

Zap
What can I say. You're an idiot.


America exchanged Statesman for a Punk

America was founded by believers in Freedom, many gave their lives, fortunes and all they had or possessed.

America in sacrilege has dishonored these men who gave everything and chosen a 'Chicago Punk' who takes everything.

Barack Obama's only business experience was as a 'Failed' door to door salesman for the New York Times.

Now our leader was a 'Community Organizer' for the Communist party, advocating bondage instead of freedom.

Obama's only 'Sacrifice' was giving up illegal drugs (we hope) and trying to quit smoking.

What a 'Change' Barack Obama has brought to America.

Zap
"Is this just a made up number?"

GWB's last deficit - $500 billion

BHO's deficit - $2 tillion

$500 bill x 4 = $2 trill

Help any?

THE 56 MEN WHO GAVE US FREEDOM
Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence ?
Five signers were captured by the British as traitors, and tortured before they died.
Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned.
Two lost their sons, another had two sons captured. Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds of the Revolutionary War.
They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor.

What kind of men were they?
Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists.
Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and plantation owners; they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were captured. Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and trader, saw his ships swept away by the British Navy. He sold his home and properties to pay his debts, and died in rags.
Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British
that he was forced to move his family almost constantly. He served in the Congress without pay, and his family was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him, and poverty was his reward.
Vandals or soldiers looted the properties of Dillery, Hall, Clymer, Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge, and Middleton.
At the battle of Yorktown , Thomas Nelson, Jr., noted that the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson home for his headquarters. He quietly urged General
George Washington to open fire. The home was destroyed, and Nelson died bankrupt.
Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few months.
John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying. Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his gristmill
were laid to waste. For more than a year he lived in forests and caves, returning home to find his wife dead and his children vanished.

So, take a few minutes while enjoying your 4th of July holiday and silently thank these patriots. Remember: freedom is never free!

ZAP

Zap. I suggest you do some basic research before you comment. Data are available from the US Treasury website, and that would be the place to do your work.

If you look at the spending by departments and so on, you can verify my remarks. For example, you can find presciption drugs spendling in FY 2008 amounted to $43 billion. It is a line item under H&HS.

Again, the greatest growth in spending is for social and entitlement programs in effect prior to 2001. These programs grow automatically with the population and with inflation. This is mandatory spending.

Sunset-

to provide for the permanent elimination, de-funding, or repeal of a federal program, agency, or department at a date certain.

http://rsc.tomprice.house.gov/UploadedFiles/RSC_Sunset_Cauc us_Two-Pager.pdf

“No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth.” – President Ronald Reagan

Zap
SEZ ZAP:
"A heard an elderly lady say in the grocery store the other day, 'Please do no let Obama and the Democrat party get their hands on Medicare.' "

SEZ ME:
And the point is?

You won't catch me defending Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, the Patriot Act, illegal immigration, outrageous spending, GWB, the GOP, etc.

I am not a Republican, and I am not a "conservative." I'm an independent classical liberal in the tradition of Locke, Jefferson, Adam Smith, etc.

You talk about how awful the Bush administration was. Fine. They made many mistakes and created a lot of problems. They are no longer in charge.

Now Obama and the Democrats are compounding the problems, while at the same time grabbing more power and leaving the American people with less liberty.

While it may be fun to sit around and talk about how bad Bush was, it produces nothing positive.

What we should be discussing is how to keep the federal government from destroying the country, and how to return the power to the individual where it belongs. That's a much more profitable conversation.

Genuine cactushead (and others)
It is a fact(?) that communism/socialism never works.
Well, no. I am a conservative independent and I have found a fdew examples of how and where socialism DOES work. Look at the kibbutzim in Israel. They are socialistic communes.
The important thing to recognize is that they are SMALL (200-300 people). Socialism works, but ONLY on the micro scale. Multiply a kibbutz by 1Million, and the natural greed of man takes over.
Communism in the micro is (or can be) good.
Communism in the macro NEVER works.

Raj
That was Jefferson.
The tree of liberty must be watered occaisionally with the blood of patriots.
Its not an exact quote, but its close.

D G
"Again, the greatest growth in spending is for social and entitlement programs in effect prior to 2001. These programs grow automatically with the population and with inflation. This is mandatory spending."

er....NO! Congress and the President can reduce the growth by adding a year onto the age of retirement or using a lower COLA for social security. The Republicans had no stomach for this. Their fiscal goal is to get their constituents mouth onto the teat of the government sow; and they were very successful.

What case did they make about the need to curtail rising entitlement costs when they ADDED yet another whole program?

By definition, if the country has money to build a $400 million bridge to an island with 50 people on it, then that country has NO fiscal problems.

By definition, if a country can see a rise in pork barrel spending from 3,000 to 14,000 annual pork barrel projects, then that country has NO fiscal problems.

7% - I
This is something we should all read daily.

Written By Regina Brett, 90 years old, of The Plain Dealer, Cleveland , Ohio

"To celebrate growing older, I once wrote the 45 lessons life taught me... It is the most-requested column I've ever written.

My odometer rolled over to 90 in August, so here is the column once more:

1. Life isn't fair, but it's still good.

2. When in doubt, just take the next small step.

3. Life is too short to waste time hating anyone.

4. Your job won't take care of you when you are sick. Your friends and parents will. Stay in touch.

5. Pay off your credit cards every month or just purchase precious metals.

6. You don't have to win every argument. Agree to disagree except where unconstitutional and despicable.

7. Cry with someone. It's more healing than crying alone.

8. It's OK to get angry with God. He can take it.

9. Save for retirement starting with your first paycheck.

10. When it comes to chocolate, resistance is futile.

11. Make peace with your past so it won't screw up the present.

12. It's OK to let your children see you cry.

13. Don't compare your life to others. You have no idea what their journey is all about, honey.

14. If a relationship has to be a secret, you shouldn't be in it.

15. Everything can change in the blink of an eye. But don't worry; God never blinks. A tree never blinks either.

16. Take a deep breath. It calms the mind.

17. Get rid of anything that isn't useful, beautiful or joyful.

18. Whatever doesn't kill you really does make you stronger.

19. It's never too late to have a happy childhood. But the second one is up to you and no one else.

20. When it comes to going after what you love in life, don't take "no" for an answer except where unconstitutional and despicalble.

21. Burn the candles, use the nice sheets, wear the fancy lingerie. Don't save it for a special occasion. Everyday is special.

Scrap Iron
There were dozens if not hundreds of socialist communities in the United States in the 19th century. Each was a collection of like minded individuals who wanted to live according to a socialist ideal. You could join them, or leave them. They all failed.

All of the socialists of my acquaintance have a very simple message. As soon as we fool 51% of the population into voting for this perfect world, we'll send the government minions after you with guns to take your property, your freedom and if necessary your life. Forget about whatever you want, it is all for the greater good as your betters see it.

I have no problem with the first type of socialism, though I would never join. The second kind is no different from the ideals of Hitler and Stalin. I regard all socialists as no better than the mafia, the Madoffs, and other street punks.

7% - II
22. Over prepare, then go with the flow, except where despicable.

23. Be eccentric now. Don't wait for old age to wear purple.

24. The most important sex organ is the brain.
25. No one is in charge of your happiness but you.

26. Frame every so-called disaster with these words: 'In five years, will this matter?'

27. Always choose life, but kill the Federal Reserve and most of the politicians in DC.

28. Forgive everyone everything. Kill my friends, family, etc., and I will kill you.

29. What other people think of you is none of your business, but for Mrs. Kravitz and those that love Amerika.

30. Time heals almost everything. Give time, time.

31. However good or bad a situation is, it will change. You can count on that.

32. Don't take yourself so seriously. No one else does.

33. Believe in miracles. They do happen.

34. God loves you because of whom God is, not because of anything you did or didn't do.

35. Don't audit life. Show up and make the most of it now.

36. Growing old beats the alternative -- dying young.

37. Your children get only one childhood, so some adults should stop acting like children.

38. All that truly matters in the end is that you loved.

39. Get outside every day. Miracles are waiting everywhere. (I have witnessed at least two).

40. If we all threw our problems in a pile and saw everyone else's, we'd grab ours back.

41. Envy is a waste of time. You already have all you need.

42. The best is yet to come.

43. No matter how you feel, get up, dress up and show up.

44. Yield, but NEVER give up to tyrants or other 'isms minus Capitalism.

45. Life isn't tied with a bow, but it's still a gift."


Friends are the family that we choose for ourselves.


It is estimated 93% won't forward this. If you are one of the 7% who will, forward this with the title '7%'.

I'm in the 7%. Are YOU? Okay, I ALWAYS wear black.


Zap.......... Please pay attention....

Zap. You can verify my remarks with data from the US Treasury.

Go to their website. Better yet, google "monthly treasury statement", and then find the report for the period you wish to review. That will get your started.

My comment on the greatest growth in the current decade is based on reports after FY 2000.

Also, look at H&HS for FY 2008 and FY 1998. You will see its spending doubled in just ten years.

D G
"My comment on the greatest growth in the current decade is based on reports after FY 2000."

Because the Speaker of the House was a Republican from January, 1995 through January, 2007.

Republicans added yet another layer of entitlement spending in 2003 while dumping the entire cost onto the national credit card.

The Republican party is all about handing out the cookies and ice cream and NEVER administering the medicine. Hence, their motto of 'cut taxes and spend and spend.'

To curtail entitlement spending is going to take some tough medicine.


moveture

All of the socialist communities have failed. You can track back socialism in the Colonies.

With $99tn in unfunded mandates, you can count on failure.

The UK is buying its own debt and now the Federal Reserve and Treasury is doing the same.

Basically, it is the equivalent of cutting off your foot, so as to fill your stomach.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/411973.stm

Say "Hello" as we are in Weimar and Mugabe' Zimbabwe territory.

St. Denis In Obama's Red America
"All of the socialist communities have failed."

You mean like that man from Nazareth and his band of disciples?

Quick, who said "The man with two tunics should share with him who has none, and the one who has food should do the same?"

Zap

Is NOT a "Party" thing. It is a fiscal thing.

Zap

Your knowledge of the Bible is laughable.

Jesus was NOT a Socialist.

Teach a man to fish and he can fish forever.

Zapdoodat
You mean like that man from Nazareth and his band of disciples?

Quick, who said "The man with two tunics should share with him who has none, and the one who has food should do the same?"

******************************************

The key thing being that Jesus called for man to voluntarily follow him.

Obama and any other socialists call for mandatory "sharing or spreading the wealth around".

Huge difference.

Even the Simplest of Minds

Even the Simplest of Minds, should be able to tell something is wrong about Barack Obama.

Obama is either the most Ignorant and Naive person ever elected to be POTUS or he potentially has the most destructive agenda in American History.

Anyone who will think for 30 seconds, about the Obama plan of reducing debt by borrowing and spending, should have a clue - something is NOT Correct about Obama.

Regardless of who one voted for, or whether they are Democrat or Republican, or what ever the Ideology, should recognize - There is a problem.

I Agree With Zap Wad
I’m with Zap on this share-the-wealth thing. It’s a great idea.

I think all the socialist billionaires who supported Obama should give up all that money. What does one man need a $billion for anyway? Does it seem fair for one man to have so much wealth while millions of people all over the world starve?

I think Al Gore has too much money. How did he get it anyway? He’s never made, sold, produced, manufactured, invented or created anything. Yet, since he’s been pushing for this global warming hoax, he’s amassed over $100 million. How many polar bears could he rescue? This, too, doesn’t seem fair.

All the Hollywood elites need to share all their money with the poor, rather than spend it on coke, big houses and big cars. What do they need all that stuff for? Why do they get paid so much for simply playing pretend? Are paid mimics really worth that much?

Our leaders in D.C are all multi-millionaires. How does this happen on their salary? Why do they need it? Think of all the starving Americans they could feed with it. Like Brother Barack said, we need to spread the wealth so that everyone is treated fairly.

All of these groups tell us we have too much and that they need to share it with others. Doesn’t that seem a bit hypocritical? Shouldn’t democrat voters be wondering why their rich leaders keep all that money all the while telling their stupid followers to sacrifice? One could almost make the argument that democrats are phucking morons for their blind obedience to phony messiahs and prophets because they can’t see the contradiction.

Scriptures Clear about work to eat

"But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever" (1 Timothy 5:16)

10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."
2 Thessalonians 3:10 (New International Version)

Christians are commanded to NOT give food to those who refuse to work, compassion to share food is only for those who work.

ZAP

Zap......... What in the world are you talking about? What entitlement spending in 2003?

Can you explain? Do you know the definition of entitlement spending?

Also, I suggested you confirm my comments with data from the US Treasury, and told you how to find it. Have you done that.

One more time. The greatest increase in dollars of spending is for social and entitlement programs in effect prior to 2001.


If only
You understood where the money comes from.
======================

zappy writes:

By definition, if a country can see a rise in pork barrel spending from 3,000 to 14,000 annual pork barrel projects, then that country has NO fiscal problems.
=======================

I would not have any fiscal problem if I could print my own money as Congress does.

Then charge it all off to a nation of workers and their children.

John Adams, letter to
Thomas Jefferson

"All the perplexities, confusion and distresses in America arise not from defects in the constitution or confederation, nor from want of honor or virtue, as much from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation."

More from the scriptures
Luke 19

12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

............

26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.

Gov't care
Ms. Lukas asks "Where does the role of government as parent end"? The better question is where does the role of government as parent begin? It takes a village to raise a village idiot. Children need a mother and a father, not a mother 'wannabe' and a father or just the mother. When men love their wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it, then women are secure in their role as women and mothers. They don't need to have their "feet in the street". When women care for their children and bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, those children will take care of their mother in her old age. When men provide for their families, their children will provide for them in their old age. But when men and women agree to murder their unborn children in the womb, the survivors of that generation lose all respect for life. In the not too distant past abortion was considered a sin and an evil. Those who kept their children and raised them (without government "help") were cared for in their old age by their children. Casting aside the virtues of the Holy Scriptures has gotten us death and dishonor. This was a land where being born poor did not condemn you to dying poor. With the encroachment of government that condemnation is becoming fact. There are many of you who desire to exist without any knowledge of the Living God. You are having it your way and will die as you have lived. By not choosing Life, you choose death and destruction. You need not blame God or anyone, but yourself.

Obama and the good Samaritan???
Christ's parable of the good Samaritan was all about a man rescuing a victim of highway robbery by using the his own resources and not seeking any worldly praise for his actions.

Obama's same tale would require organizing the community to petition the Roman government to set up patrols to help any who fell among thieves. Ideally having Rome appoint Barack as head of Operation Rescue the Victims. Actually doing something directly to help the poor and afflicted is something that is entirely foreign to Obama and Biden as seen by their niggardly giving to charity.

The adulation and power that accrues to those proposing vast government solutions is easily seen as their primary goal. Any help for the victim is only an incidental by product.

Obama and the good Samaritan have no kinship whatsoever. One had compassion for the downtrodden while the other sees the poor and afflicted his ticket to absolute power. Tyrants see themselves as the very paragons of virtue while they enslave and debase their subjects.



Sarah Palin
There's a nice piece by Pamela Geller on the resignation of Sarah Palin. It's a nice read.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=103019

D G
"Zap......... What in the world are you talking about? What entitlement spending in 2003?

Medicare, Prescription Part D, The Heritage Foundation announced it would cost $800 billion in its first 10 years of implementation. When it was passed George Bush(R) was president, Denny Hastert(R) was Speaker of the House and Bill Frist(R) was Senate Majority Leader. It was the Republican party's gift to the American people. The entire cost, though, was simply dumped onto the nation's credit card.

Once again, if the Republican party can add one more entitlement spending program, then by definition, there can be no fiscal or looming entitlement spending problems.

JAG CA
JAG CA Location: CA
Reply # 113
Date: Jul 4, 2009 - 7:22 PM EST
Obama and the good Samaritan???
Christ's parable of the good Samaritan was all about a man rescuing a victim of highway robbery by using the his own resources and not seeking any worldly praise for his actions.

Obama's same tale would require organizing the community to petition the Roman government to set up patrols to help any who fell among thieves. Ideally having Rome appoint Barack as head of Operation Rescue the Victims. Actually doing something directly to help the poor and afflicted is something that is entirely foreign to Obama and Biden as seen by their niggardly giving to charity.

The adulation and power that accrues to those proposing vast government solutions is easily seen as their primary goal. Any help for the victim is only an incidental by product.

Obama and the good Samaritan have no kinship whatsoever. One had compassion for the downtrodden while the other sees the poor and afflicted his ticket to absolute power. Tyrants see themselves as the very paragons of virtue while they enslave and debase their subjects.

===============================================

Don't forget the good Samaritan spent his own money to help the victim. Obama spends other people's money. He doesn't even spend his own money to help his own family. Aunt on welfare and brother living on $1.00 a day.

Americas Constitution
should not be able to be changed by a President to fit his personallity but his personallity to fit the constitution.

08hayabusa good point
Obama does not even seem to have compassion for his own kin if it would require spending his own funds.

DB
"Obama and any other socialists call for mandatory "sharing or spreading the wealth around. -- Huge difference."

Not to the person in need of the tunic or the food.

D G
"One more time. The greatest increase in dollars of spending is for social and entitlement programs in effect prior to 2001."

Yep, and the case needs to be made that these programs need to be trimmed. Republicans were and ARE still complete failures at this.


Happy Birthday Baracky!
Would you like to send Barack Obama a birthday message this year?

Now's your chance.

Though he has never released a long-form birth certificate, Obama claims to have been born Aug. 4, 1961, in an unnamed Honolulu hospital that has yet to take credit for the historic birth of the baby who would become America's first black president.

WND's SuperStore has designed and printed postcards for the occasion. The front of the card raises the question: "Where's the birth certificate?" The back is open for your personalized greetings.

"I'm encouraging Americans to send these postcards in plenty of time for Barack Obama's birthday," said Joseph Farah, editor and chief executive officer of WND and someone who has made it his personal mission to find that missing birth certificate. "This is an opportunity to anyone to send two messages at once to Obama – one concerning the search for truth about his constitutional eligibility for office and the second your own personalized note."

Farah points out the postcards can be used to send notes to anyone – not just Barack Obama.

"These postcards are not pre-addressed to the White House," he said. "They are postcards that can be used to send to your friends, your member of Congress, your relatives. It's just another way of keeping the issue of eligibility on the front burner – right up through 2012 if necessary."

Purchasers of the postcards will receive mailing addresses for the White House and Congress should they choose to use them for those purposes.

It's just the latest effort by Farah to raise the visibility of an issue he says was ignored by his colleagues in the media and most of the nation's elected officials, including Republicans.

Go here for more info on sending Baracky a B-Day greeting he won't forget:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId= 102900

WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE?

USPatriot56


If programs are to be trimmed.......

If social and entitlement programs are to be trimmed as "Zap" says, why are the Administation and Congress actively seeking to add more such programs at the present time?

zap the fool
ZapZero always brings up the Medicare Part D prescription plan passed by the Republicans. However, he ignores that Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security all were passed by Democratic Presidents and a Democratic Congress. These 3 programs along with the Federal debt now total $135 trillion in the hole. All of these program were put, as Zap says, on the national credit card with no way to pay for them. You complain the Republicans never cut any of these programs. This is true. However, has any Democrat proposed a cut to these programs?

Zap explain this - Debt piled up when one party has complete control of Congress:
Republicans - $3 trillion
Democrats - $7 trillion
split $1 trillion

Zap
One more point. When Bush proposed to cut SS out of the federal government and have it run as a private enterprise who cried the loudest?

Bush Ran Up Deficits...
Look, quit complaining rethugs and get your memory back.

The previous president was a big government guy and also ran up the deficit.

We do not call you wing-nuts for nothing.

h20shier
"Zap explain this - Debt piled up when one party has complete control of Congress:
Republicans - $3 trillion
Democrats - $7 trillion
split $1 trillion"

Please stop-a-pimpin for the Republican party.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/hist debt_histo5.htm

This one page shows that George W. Bush accumulated at least $4.3 trillion. You'll notice it does not include the $700 billion Bush-Bolshevik bottom-to-up wealth redistribution scheme.

h20shier
"However, he ignores that Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security all were passed by Democratic Presidents and a Democratic Congress."

So true, brother! The Demoncraps know that these programs cost money. They need to be funded. Life is not all about eating 'cake and ice cream' (entitlements) and not having to take your medicine (taxes). Life is about both my friend.

Republicans are clueless or maybe, perhaps, they want to destroy our country. They are poor stewards of the government and the economy. For them it's all about handing the spending programs (cake) and then getting excited about an assortment of tax cuts. (no medicine for you!)

To give just two examples:

(1) Medicare Prescription, Part D. (the cost is $800 billion over first 10 years)

(2) Spending $10 billion a month for the past seven years and for the next 100 years (if need be) on their social-engineering project in Iraq.

All the increased spending paid for with tax cuts, and getting Americans addicted to more government than they are willing to pay for, and at the end of it all....they organize some Tea Parties.

Zap and Andrea
The last two years of the Bush adminstration the Democrats controlled Congress. In the first 6 years of Bush's presidency with a Republican congress they added $2.6 trillion to the national debt. In the next 2 years with a Democratic Congress $2.4 trillion was added to the debt. Zip as you point out in a number of your post Congress is the one that passes all spending. Obama and the Democrats health care reform to cover 15 million Americans will cost from $1 trillion to $1.6 trillion and as you point out Zap the estimates are always low. I have seen estimates as high as $3.5 trillion. Where have the Democrats funded these programs so that they are solvent? Right now those programs have $135 trillion in debt. How are you gone to pay for these Zap? You blame Bush entirely for the $700 billion bailout. Bush shares some blame for proposing that solution but look at the votes in Congress that actually passed that bill. The majority of Democrats voted for it and the majority of Republicans voted against it. If the Democrats are in control of Congress and the majority of them vote for a bill shouldn't they take at least some of the blame? Without them Bush could propose anything he wants but it wouldn't pass. The Democrats have been in charge for 2.5 years. When do you start blaming them for the problems we are facing?

Prove Your Point h20skier
h20skier,

Can you provide references or links to back up your claims?

Carrie Lukas -- Know Your Role
You do not speak for all women. Thank you very much.

Zap
I find you familiar and fascinating..
I have a relative that is a socialist-communist.
A cultist, who lives in California.
Part of her cultic behavior- taught- is dismissiveness and shunning.

She could easily be diagnosed as passive-aggressive or Bi-Polar..Manic -Depressive.

Your comments/"approach" are rife with her symptoms..are you in need of psycho help ??

Many,of Liberal persuasions are afforded the idea that they are "americans" but are in all actuality not worthy of the title except for a GPS location and a "mouth" ...and that mouth earned by the blood of REAL Americans.

h20shier
"The last two years of the Bush administration the Democrats controlled Congress."

Who signs the bill and makes it the law of the land, my friend!

Now isn't it the Republican-controlled Congress of the 1990's that made those steep defense cuts that put this country in danger on the eve of 9/11?

h20shier
You're still a-pimpin for the Republican party.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/hist debt.htm

09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/1994 4,692,749,910,013.32

h20shier
"Right now those programs have $135 trillion in debt."

Over how long a time period? Actually, as of NOW, they have surpluses.

Has no one ever told you that the Iraq War could cost $213 trillion?


Andrea I am glad you asked.
Here you are

Medicare has $85 trillion in un-funded liablity. http://www.aei.org/outlook/27825

National Debt : http://www.savingsbonds.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histd ebt_histo5.htm
and here
http://www.savingsbonds.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histde bt_histo4.htm

Control of Congress:
http://uspolitics.about.com/od/usgovernment/l/bl_party_divi sion_2.htm

Now, just add the deficits in each year provided in the first two links with the control of Congress in the second and add the numbers for yourself. The first two links come directly from the Department of Treasury. It includes all money on and off the books. If you notice there has not been a balanced budget passed by Congress in 52 years. The Clinton years never had a balanced budget.

The $135 trillion figure comes from adding the national debt $11 trillion before the melt down, $11 trillion in S.S. (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2269595/posts Note: this link shows more than $11 trillion but it will do.) $89 trillion in Medicare from the link above, Medicade has $24 trillion in un-funded liability. Add all this up and you get $135 trillion.

Any more questions?

zap
Here are your numbers:
Current 11,489,560,999,310.74
09/30/2008 10,024,724,896,912.49
09/30/2007 9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16
09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86
09/30/1999 5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998 5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 4,692,749,910,013.32

Notice Zap that from 2008, a year after Democrats was in control of Congress, to now $1.4 trillion has been added to the debt. So, Bush is solely responsible for this debt and the majority of Democrats voting for and passing the budget bear no responsiblity?

Andrea
"Medicare has $85 trillion in un-funded liability."

What h20shier will not tell you is that this liability is from 2008 through 2508. The next 500 years.

Over the same period of time the Iraq war's cost will be $213 trillion.


Zap
You do know the difference between un-funded liability and your make believe number? Let me refresh your memory. Lets say you promise people if you give them money (S.S.) that when they retire you will pay them $1000 a month for life. Now, where is that money going to come from? Hopefully, you invested that money so that when the people needed it it was there for them to start withdrawing it. However, our government borrowed that money and issued an I.O.U. in its place. That Trust Fund has no money in it. Where is the money that is going to pay all of these people when they retire?
The average life expectancy in the U.S. is 77.6 years. The retirement age is between 65 and 67 depending on when you were born. Lets take the larger number of 67 years. So, you will need to provide that person with 12,000 per year for 10.6 years or $127,200. If you have only enough money from current people paying in for $50,000 then the un-funded liability for that one person is $77,200. That is a real value not a made up one like you did with Iraq.

Andrea
"Medicare has $85 trillion in un-funded liability."

What h20shier will also not tell is that George Bush(R), Denny Hastert(R) (Speaker of the House) and Bill Frist(R) (Senate Majority Leader) were so concerned about this number that they added a whole other program to Medicare, called Prescription Part D in 2003.

George W. Bush declared "it's a gift to the American people from the Republican party."

Of course, they had a tax cut to pay for this gift.

h20shier
"When Bush proposed to cut SS out of the federal government and have it run as a private enterprise...."

You mean have Wall Street run it?

He did propose to allow young people to opt-out and then have their own private account instead. This exacerbates the looming entitlement problem.

zapdohimer
Yes, Bush and the Republicans passed the Medicare Part D prescription drug plan. The Democrats passed Social Security, Medicare, and Medicade. They also started the war on poverty and the welfare program. How are all of those programs doing? Admit it, Social Security is a great Ponzi scheme just like Madoff.

h20shier
"So, Bush is solely responsible for this debt and the majority of Democrats voting for and passing the budget bear no responsibility?"

When a bill is passed by Congress and signed into law by the President it seems they both are participants.

What do you think of Republicans yammering about 'Clinton Administration defense cuts' when the Republican party controlled both wings of Congress during Bubba's last six years of office?

With all the spending (stimulus and bailouts of the past year alone, you have to take a look at what got us to our financial knees. Bush was president from 2001-2009 and the Speaker of the House was a Republican from 1995-2007.



h20shier
"the Democrats passed Social Security, Medicare, and Medicade."

And they passed taxes to pay for them. Hasn't social security been running a surplus since Ronald Reagan passed a law that jacked up the social security tax?

zap
So, you finally admit that the Democrats in Congress are responsible for the debt. Thanks.

S.S. currently has a surplus but with the current taxation and the promised payouts they are $11 trillion in the hole. The Trust Fund is empty. Every penny has been borrowed by Congress and spent. When all of the baby boomers start retiring there is no money to pay them. The program will start paying out more than it brings in as soon as 2012. Where is the extra money going to come from? This will result in a double hit. First, Congress will not be able to borrow the surplus so the deficit will grow even more and second the deficit will grow because they will have to borrow more or raise the tax rates even more than they are.

That is why I advocate to re-elect no one. Both parties have put us in this mess and both need to be kicked out. Until you and everyone else realize that we will continue down this destructive path.

Zap
In 2001 and 2002 the Democrats controlled the Senate leading to a split Congress.

Heres what we do know.

Each year Bush was in office the Liberals in Congress wanted to spend more including Obama.

So for everyone who is complaining about Bush spending, you are really complaining about the Liberals in Congress.

h20skier
In 2001 and 2002 the Democrats controlled the Senate. The Republican party's dirty deeds were done with Lott and Frist.

TRENT LOTT (R)
21st United States Senate Majority Leader
January 20, 2001 – June 6, 2001

BILL FRIST (R)
23rd United States Senate Majority Leader
January 7, 2003 – January 3, 2007

h20skier
"Where is the extra money going to come from?"

Do you support the Republican 100 year social engineering project in the middle east which could cost $213 trillion over its lifetime?

Liberty in the U.S.A. Is Gone
With the U.S. Constitution totally trashed by Obama, a great example of that among many being more czars than the Soviet Union/Russia or any other country has ever had in all of history, liberty in the U.S.A. is gone.
The czars report direct to and work only for Obama. They cannot even be compelled to appear before Congress, our elected, once representatives.
Obama took us immediately to anarchy, chaos and third world, despotic, evil dictator status.
I ran across this simple explanation recently and it is so true on this July 4th that I weep:

“Why did the founders of our nation give us the Bill of Rights? The answer is easy. They knew Congress could not be trusted with our God-given rights. Think about it.”

(Please click on my name above to see an analysis of Obama and what we must do to get him out of office before it is too late, if not too late already.)

Sarah Palin for America

Sarah Palin for America -
Independence Day

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4j_weCAMaI

FACT

GWB's fiscal policies REDUCED deficits.

Following Tax Relief 2003....... The economy was stimulated, jobs increased, incomes increased, tax revenues increased, and deficits decreased.

Those favorable trends continued through 2007. Next, we had the recession. The three main causes of the recession are not attributed to fiscal policies.

The recssion causes were as follows. The Fed was slowing growth with monetary policies prior to 2008 to control inflation risks. The energy price bubble impacted the economy. The credit crisis was severe, and resulted in negative GDP growth.

None of those three causes of the recession is due to GWB's fiscal policies.


I'm not nearly so pessimistic...
Carrie, you should have joined Gov. Rick Perry, Congressman Ralph Hall, Michelle Maulkin, my wife and I at some of the 1300 tea parties across the nation yesterday.

You might be a bit less pessimistic.

There were all kinds of folks at the parties my wife, kids, grandkids, and I attended, but there was one solidly unifying thread: We all loved our nation as built and plan on keeping it that way.

One of my proudest moments was sitting close enough to overhear a bunch of teenagers talking about how they are being screwed over by this current gang -Crapheads in DC and how prepared they are to step up in 2012 and change things.

This same bunch of teenagers would stand and cheer any time one of the speakers made some comment about something like the DumboCraphead Party being the home of America's Baby Slaughtering Houses etc.

Irony

Independence Day 2009

The President is striving to make people dependent.

New Agencies Taking our Money!
Gov't growth is out of control!

Check out this blogger, and you will be HOOKED. http://www.theblacksphere.net He is refreshing, and his book is AWESOME! Talk about changing the conservative and Republican landscape!

zap
Thanks for verifying that the Democrats were in control in 2001 and 2002.

TRENT LOTT (R)
21st United States Senate Majority Leader
January 20, 2001 – June 6, 2001

BILL FRIST (R)
23rd United States Senate Majority Leader
January 7, 2003 – January 3, 2007

June 2001 to January 2003 who was in charge of the Senate?

As far as your 100 year fantasy remember that Obama is in charge of that for the next 4 years. He promised to end the Iraq war by the end of this year. Also, he has increased the number of troops in Afgan. So, Bush will be responsible for the first 6 years of the war and the next 94 after he has left office. Wow, for being so dumb he sure has far reaching power.

Heres what we do know.

Thanks to the Liberal Colin Powell, and his doctrine of "You broke it, you fix it.", the U.S. is spending billions securing Iraq.

Conservatives oppose the spending saying its not our responsibilty. Iraq was "broken" before we got there.

We do know at the fall of Saddam's Government, less than 400 americans had lost their lives.

Then Liberals started calling our troops murderers, occupiers, torturers and every other dis-repectful name toward our troops.

These irresponsible statements soon appeared on Islamic websites and enabled the Terrorist to recruit fighters and begin killing american soldiers.

The death of the first 400 American Troops clearly rests on the Commander and Chief who sent them there.

The death of the remaining 2800 troops rest on the Liberals who help recruit more terrorist.

h20shier
"that Obama is in charge of that for the next 4 years."

Here's yet another example of your Republican hypocrisy. When the Republican party gained total control of power in DC they not only acquiesced to all the government that had been put in place before them they put a lot of more government on top of all the government that was already there. (yet, you co blame the (Democraps)

You like to pass out the cake and ice cream but will whine when it comes to taking the medicine.

It was Republicans (2001-2007) who spent more than the previous set of Democrats . They increased pork barrel spending from 3,000 to 14,000 projects a year, billed to the national credit card.

They have engaged in a seven year social engineering project in the Middle East that costs $120 billion a year and may well last another 100 years, billed to the national credit card.

They have added another layer of entitlement spending that costs $50 billion a year called Medicare Prescription, billed to the national credit card.

Mandated $4 billion a year in ethanol subsidies, as well as drastically increased cotton, sugar, soybean, corn, wheat handouts, billed to the national credit card.

Doubled the size of the Department of Education, billed to the national credit card.

How would you have paid for all this spending?

How about a gas tax to pay for the 100 year presence in Iraq?

How about a gas tax to pay for our unending naval presence in the Gulf of Hormuz?

Useless Idiot
"The death of the remaining 2800 troops rest on the Liberals who help recruit more terrorist."

First, relearn your third grade math lessons. Your number should be 3800.

Second, on this Fourth of July holiday weekend you have proven yourself to be yet another card-carrying member of the Republican party who uses the sacrifice of our nation's soldiers for your own political agenda.

It was the failures of the Bush administration to adequately do any post invasion planning that led to the insurgency growing and then turning into a wildfire.

I suspect your willingness for war is only suffused by your desire to put the entire cost of the 'War on Terror' onto the nation's credit card.

I wish we had had a gas tax to pay for the $10 billion a month social engineering project in Iraq for the past seven years. Had this been so, then when John McCain, a Republican, cavalierly said we could be in Iraq for 100 years more, people may have paused, reflected, and wondered if they really cared paying for the Iraq War for that long period of time.

I suspect many Iraq War supporters would have been 'cutting and running' faster than Cindy Sheehan had they actually been paying for the Iraq war from the get-go. But so long as that cost continues to get dumped onto the national credit card they are willing to soldier on forever.

You're just another Republican who believes in a huge expansion of government, you just can't be bothered to pay for it.

zap
Yes the Republicans overspent like the Democrats always do. We complained they were spending too much and they got kicked out in 2006. Again, the Democrats were in charge of spending in 2007, 2008, and 2009. If Bush and the Republicans were so irresponsible (I agree they were) and the Democrats are responsible shouldn't they be cutting spending to all of those programs that Bush pushed through? Obama and the Democrats will have $2 trillion in spending put on the nation's credit card this year alone. When are you going to get on them for all of this irresponsible spending? Obama has taken over the auto industry while awarding his union buddies ahead of secured creditors. Do you support that? Obama and Kennedy have proposed "universal" (15 million people) health care for a mere $1 trillion to be put on the nation's credit card. Do you support that? Obama fired the CEO of GM. Do you support that? Obama has taken over the financial sector. Do you support that?

I bet you $1 million that the Democrats will not cut spending in the next 2 years. Want to take the bet?

zap
In the last 2 years have earmarks been eliminated? No matter how much you complain about Bush he has no control over earmarks unless he vetoed all bills. Even Obama put earmarks in many bills. Obama pledged to end earmarks then signed a bill with 9000 in them. Yes, many of them were Republican's but the rest were Democrats. Why did he sign the bill after pledging there would be no earmarks in his administration? I guess the same reason he said there would be no lobbyist in his administration and then hires over a dozen. Do you support all of the tax cheats that Obama hired in his administration?

Trolls do accomplish their goal.
Yes, hats off to Zapoodat and his ilk. Their typical impenetrable and crazy-making cognitive dissonance costs the rest of us a lot.

But that same cognitive problem also continues to expose what obstacle America must become to keep itself free.

When will we realize their locked minds willfully remain that, and that logic and reason do not exist in their dictionaries?

BTW: "To curtail entitlement spending is going to take some tough medicine." Indeed, Zapoodat.

But expecting Obama and his fellow ideologues in Congress to understand that is like expecting the current president to be non-partisan, pro-American and courageous--and transparent.

Truly, Sno-Cones will be served in hell before the Obama, Democrats, liberals and leftists truly understand that less spending, hence less taxes, is the fiscal direction in which to go..

In their defense, though, the Republicans' record in the past few years has been pretty abysmal.

Nonetheless,. the donkeys have been the majority in Congress for a few years now.

BTW: With Colin Powell voicing his concern about Obama's spending orgy, perhaps others in his camp will take notice?

I'm quite certain Obama won't. He's fully expecting a second term. Wouldn't be surprised if he and the Democrats try to suspend or modify the Constitution so he can become, as I expect he really desires to be, dictator-for-life.

Big oops.
Meant to say what "obstacle America must overcome . . ."

zapdoodat
Well I don't know about all that.
I do know when Saddam's Goverment fell there was less than 400 U.S. Troops who were killed.
People were in the streets dancing, they hugged and kissed U.S. servicemen, they celebrated the removal of Saddame.

Then Liberals started calling our troops murderers, war criminals, tortureres, occupiers. Next thing you know Sen. Durban, Murtha, Sen. Kerry, and Barack Obama's words condeming our troops started showing up on Islamic Websites asking for recruits to help with the Jihad. From all over the region they came to Iraq to kill American troops. Many Liberals admitted, the terrorist were not in Iraq before we removed Saddam but came afterwards.

Educated people know every war has mistakes. Are you suggesting Wilson made mistakes because in the one year we were engaged in WWI, more U.S. troops died than in the Korean War and Viet Nam combined? Are you suggesting FDR failed to plan because we went into WW2 to Free Europe but after the WW2 half of Europe was enslaved by the Soviet Union?

I really don't think that was Wilson or FDR's plan but you are free to condem Presidents if you like.

What we do know is President Clinton & the Liberals in Congress weakened the effectiveness of the CIA & FBI. Why they actually passed a law making it a crime for the CIA & FBI to share information.

And we do know Bill Clinton reduced the size of our military by 350,000 troops. That means there were less military police available, less bomb disposal units, less patrol units, combat engineers available for Bush to Deploy.

Bush inherited a weakened military and intelligence services from Bill Clinton.

Educated people will be very understanding of what Bush had to deal with.

Zapdodat

If you really object to rebuilding Iraq. You need to blame the guy responsible for that policy. The "Liberal" Colin Powell. Remember his doctrine, "If you break it, you fix it."

Off course Colin never understood that Iraq was broken before we got there.

Overspending? Heres what we know.

Each year Bush was in Office the Liberals in Congress wanted to spend more than Bush.

So actually Bush reduced Spending over what it would have been if the Liberals were in control.

We see the Proof of this now that Obama is President.

So anyone with an once of integrity who is truely concerned about Government Spending will now voice their objections to Obama.

To do otherwise would indicate a serious lack of personal honor, integrity, and character.

Useless Idiot
"If you really object to rebuilding Iraq. You need to blame the guy responsible for that policy. The "Liberal" Colin Powell. Remember his doctrine,"

You show you are clueless about how government works. The Secretary of State works at the pleasure of the President.

Your buck always stops at the most convenient liberal to blame. Keep up the solid Republican analysis.

What powers does the Constitution give the Secretary of State? You must have a very 'liberal' reading of that document.

Zapdoodat

Actually I am very well educated about Government.

For example Cabinet Secretaries used to submit their budgets directly to the Congress for funding without any Presidential review.

Thats alot of power given them by the Constituition.

Remeber Bush was a uniter not a divider. He frequently would listen to others not of the same political mindset as his own.

That is why he spent more on Education because of "a Liberal" Ted Kennedy.

That is why he spent more on the Farm Bill because he listened to another Liberal Tom Daschel, He also spent more to create the Homeland security Department because he listened to Liberals in congress and did not get rid of the current Security screeners at Airports.

He father did a similar thing. Bush 41 pledged not to raise taxes but then the Liberals in congress urged him to do so. They reached an agreement where Bush would agree to a tax increase written by the Liberals If they pledge to keep all new spending revenue nuetral. That lasted one year before the Liberals in congress wanted to spend more than what was coming in in Revenue.

So once again we see when Presidents listen to Liberals, bad things happen.

Useless Idiot
"So once again we see when Presidents listen to Liberals, bad things happen."

Gee wiz, I guess George Bush(R) was a victim as President from 2001-2009.

Denny Hastert(R) was a victim from 2001-2007 as Speaker of the House.

Trent Lott(R) was a victim as Senate Majority Leader from 1995-2001.

Bill Frist(R) was a victim as Senate Majority Leader from 2003-2007.

One wonders why Republicans even run for office?


Government Intervenes on Life
If you look at your list of things that government is looking to control it looks more like a list from the Koran. Eating certain foods, smoking and extra marital sex, all things listed in the Koran as sins. Make you wonder if the POTUS really is a Muslim and intends to convert the rest of us either by Sharia or congressional law.
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