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Wednesday, November 26, 2008
Michael Medved :: Townhall.com Columnist
Big Lies that Poison Thanksgiving and Subvert Our Sense of Honor
by Michael Medved
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For some of Barack Obama's most ardent supporters, his resounding victory represented the first sign of redemption for a wretched, guilty nation with a 400-year history of oppression.

Filmmaker Michael Moore, for instance, considered election night "a stunning, whopping landslide of hope in a time of deep despair. In a nation that was founded on genocide and then built on the backs of slaves, it was an unexpected moment, shocking in its simplicity."

Actually, Mr. Moore's summary of America's origins is a wholly expected distortion, shocking in its mendacity.

Like so many other revered figures in the worlds of entertainment and academia, the portly provocateur thoughtlessly recycles the darkest assumptions about the generous nation that provides his privileged, prosperous life.

My new book, "The 10 Big Lies About America," represents an aggressive effort to correct the ugly smears that play an increasingly prominent (and often unchallenged) role in our public discourse.

Big Lie No. 1, for instance, concerns the ubiquitous notion that the nation's founders and builders followed a policy of "genocide" toward Native Americans.

In truth, disease caused 95% of the deaths that ravaged native populations of North America following European contact. Despite lurid (but historically baseless) claims of massive infection brought about by "smallpox blankets," even the deadliest germs displayed no consciously hostile agenda.

In fact, intermarriage (including frequent intermarriage with African-Americans, slaves and free) and assimilation caused more Indian "losses" than all occasional massacres by governmental and irregular forces — incidents invariably condemned by federal authorities, never sponsored by them.

My book's Lie No. 2 precisely anticipates Moore's claim that America was "built on the backs of slaves," suggesting that our wealth and prosperity came chiefly through the stolen labor of kidnapped Africans.

While slavery represented an undeniable horror in our nation's early history, the slave population never exceeded 20% of the national total (amounting to 12% at the time of the Civil War). This means that at least 80% of the work force remained free laborers.

The claim that our forefathers built America "on the backs of slaves" rests on the idiotic idea that involuntary servitude proved vastly more productive than free labor. In fact, the states dominated by the slave economy counted as the poorest, least developed in the union — providing the North with crushing economic superiority that brought victory in the War Between the States.

Of more than 20 million Africans taken from their homes in chains, at most 3% ever made their way to the territory of the United States (or the British colonies preceding our nation). Americans played no part in establishing the once-universal institution of slavery but played a leading, outsize role in bringing about its abolition.

Other lies about America's past badly distort current debates over public policy. It's not true, for instance, that governmental activism provides a necessary remedy for periodic economic downturns (Big Lie No. 6).

In fact, leaders who courageously resisted the temptation of major federal initiatives at times of crisis presided over shorter, less painful recessions, while the ambitious innovations of Hoover and FDR worsened and prolonged the Great Depression. (Even liberal historians admit that the New Deal never worked as "a recovery program.")

Meanwhile, the popular assumption that our founders determined to create a secular, not a Christian, nation (Big Lie No. 3) has produced widespread hysteria over the program of "the Christian right."

In fact, the constitutional framers insisted on a combination of a secular government and a deeply Christian society. Even Jefferson, an unconventional religious thinker, believed that fervent faith represented a necessary element in the security and growth of the republic; he personally attended and authorized weekly Christian services in the Capitol building itself.

Secular militants, not Christian conservatives, currently strive to transform America in a way our founders would neither recognize nor approve.

Unfortunately, some of the same religious conservatives who get it right about the place of organized faith in the American fabric get it terribly wrong by signing on to Big Lie No. 10: that the United States has entered into a steep — and irreversible — moral decline.

In fact, a wealth of statistics concerning marriage, teenage sexuality, drug addiction, crime, alcohol abuse and other signs of social breakdown show a recent, decisive turnaround that may represent one of the nation's periodic "awakenings." Moralists have proclaimed permanent ethical collapse ever since 1645, yet no one could claim that our path has been straight downhill for 350 years.

The big lies about America all work to undermine the sense of honor and gratitude that ought to inspire every citizen, particularly in this Thanksgiving season. They also destroy the essential sense of perspective required in significant debates as a new government comes to power in Washington, D.C.

While Sen. Obama's supporters rightly rejoice at his election to the nation's highest office, they will disorient his presidency and damage society if they embrace destructive distortions about our past, and view his elevation as a rare (or exclusive) basis for pride.

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About The Author
Michael Medved's daily syndicated radio talk show reaches one of the largest national audiences every weekday between 3 and 6 PM, Eastern Time. Michael Medved is the author of eleven books, including the bestsellers What Really Happened to the Class of '65?, Hollywood vs. America, Right Turns and, most recently, The Ten Big Lies About America.
 
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Get your TherapyHERE/Part II
Some more things to check for before posting:
Yes, there is help for these disorders !
Get it Here:

Anger against those who are able to make some money with couter-arguments.
Example: Mr. Medved is a terrible person because his book is selling ! And it's biased towards the positive in American History He is not Godlike and not perfect like you are. He should shut up and not write books.

Remedy: Try to write a book yourself that does not have a completely skewed personal agenda.This could be tough, as if you are citical of M.M., you are probably very biased already. Have someone neutral edit it.(Search the Planet to find them).Have them punch holes in all your arguments. Then, throw out your book. Get philosophical. Have a drink.Burn all your books.Plant a tree to replace the one lost printing your book.

Distorted perception: Example: Louis Farrakhan is just a nice guy around the corner.
Remedy: Watch YouTube of Farrakhan. Then try to picture him helping sick people, listening to Mozart, or saying nice things about Rennaissance paintings, esp. the beautiful portraits of white people. Easy, huh ! Then do these things yourself. Enjoy it !! Read some New Testament, take a yoga class,call all your really nice black friends and thank them for not hating you, (seriously), then proceed as with "white Guilt"(see Part I of "Therapy" on this thread) throw up , suck on a mint, and recover.

Condemnation of entire groups: Example Whites are responsable for all and eternally to be excoriated for all world wide intitutionalized slavery since the Cave Days.They deserve to die as a race. Kill'em or intermarry them into extinction. Then Peace and Love will reign.

Remedy: This one is easy; just get the facts. But you have to read them, and this is the hard part;accept them. Develop a backbone. Then go back to your day job , you wage slave :)


Get Therapy HerePart I
I have some healing rituals for you all.Before you post, check for the following:

Use of the word "hate".Example: the Right Wingbots support anyone who "hates" love, light, life, and other color people.Remedy: Say 100 times:They do not hate, they do not hate, they do not hate....
Then repeat with : I do not hate, I do not hate, etc. You get the picture.

They did it, so we did it, so they did it, you were worse, no they were, etc.etc..
This is the grown ups version of NA, na na na na. Example: giving statistics or citing incidents solely order to prove others evil.
Remedy: Run and pray and focus on creative ideas, make a pot holder. Take a course in Logic and Debate, or better yet read up these things yourself.Practice! Then repeat: I may be wrong, I may be wrong, 250 times. Get Ice Cream. Enjoy forgiving yourself for being wrong.

Toxic "white guilt" and self righteousness: Insisting that present day whites and even immigrants have some kind of obligation to non whites or are inferior morally (dosn't this sound like the Black Liberation "Theology" of the Rev. Cone ?".
Remedy: Read Cones work and throw up, throw up again,then recover. Read about Wilberforce, Dickens,Jacob Riis, get re-acquainted with your race.Look at pretty pictures of nice white people. Repeat: I am special several times then get a body rub. Enjoy your white skin.


A Common Sense Thanksgiving
While there is no "defense" for the acts of injustice or cruelty that are committed during wars or conquest, the history of humankind is an uninterrupted sequence of injustic and cruelty, if one chooses to look at these things alone, or out of context.

Mr. Medved is courageously leading the battle to put Political Correctness to rest for once and for all.
To do so means to agree to focus on the positives in history and to refrain from "taking sides" in every single discussion or interaction that can be related in some way to past historical events.

We have gotten this far as civilized people because we have agreed not to be bound by past mistakes. We also need to agree to let grievance and entitlement go. Underlying these toxic psychological states is the raw urge for tribal power that "Balkanizes" us as a nation.
Distinct groups will naturally keep company and cherish their heritage and this is right and natural. But if we want to maintain the fragile and paradoxical balance of power between groups that is our single most distinctive feature, we have to agree to focus on the positive and celebrate Thanksgiving in a non judgemental spirit.
I remember making a "Thanksgiving" book with my mother, to thank all those whom we felt deserved remembrance for their kindness or innovative ideas.
While mention was made at the dinner table of the conquest of Native Americans and the negatives both towards them and between them, the focus was on thankfulness for their contributions. And while I knew that white men were not always just, I was proud of the courage, determination, and intelligence of those first Euro-Americans and celebrated their positive acts and ideas.
And we had Indian, Pilgrims, Turkeys, and food galore, and of course, the Macy's Parade in the spirit of fun and gratitude. Gratitude for our common sense and goodwill.
That's how we had a real Thanksgiving, not a Politically Correct one.

There are plenty of lies to go around.
It's hard to imagine what purpose Mr. Medved thinks that playing a shell game with the truth serves. It would be easy enough to take his responses to the "10 Big Lies" about America, and form a case that they are themselves 10 Big Lies. Each one involves some distraction or distortion themselves - exactly a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I wouldn't seek to learn history from Michael Medved any more than I would from Michael Moore. However, the latter makes more sense.

I happen to be part Cherokee. Medved makes a point that the majority of Native Americans that died during the time period he referenced did so as a result of disease and not explicitly at the hands of whites. This is nominally true, but distorts the truth as much or more than Michael Moore ever did. 4000 Cherokees dies on the Trail of Tears - from exposure, from starvation, and from disease. Their deaths were a direct result of their forced relocation.

I dont belittle or distort the deaths of your ancestors, Michael. Please don't distort the cause of my ancestors deaths.

Christmas is coming!
I've already asked Santa for the book!

Thanks Roy for again proving
the value of public education. First you claim there was a Manifest Destiny document signed. Then when called on that you claim you just mis-stated that the document was really the Monroe Doctrine. Clearly you have never read the Monroe Doctrine which stated any attempt by a European nation to oppress or control any nation in the western hemisphere would be seen as an act of aggression and the United States would intervene. It had nothing to do with American Indians except to help protect them from European colonization.

Maybe you can take a couple of course in adult education to help you learn a little a very little about the country you live in. Doubt it would help but at least it would show you have some desire to be more than the average ignorant liberal.

Slavery
The Black Africans are the ones who captured other blacks & staked them out on the beaches. Where's the outrage towards them???????? Only 600,000 blacks reached the South....where did the rest of the 20m go to????????

Where is the outrage towards bamarot's Arab Slave Trader Ancestors, they were commissioned by Queen Victoria to capture blacks as slaves?

Where is the outrage towards radical muslim blacks currently practicing genocide on their own people & anyone who is not a radical muslim.

Where is the outrage towards Obama's first cousin, Raila Odinga in Kenya who massacred thousands of Kenyan's, last time I looked he is black???????????

Where is the outrage towards blacks who were the Buffalo soldiers whose sole purpose was to destroy any buffalo in sight in order to destroy Native Americans??????? do not the descendants of these Buffalo soldiers owe reparation to the descendants of the Native Americans who were wiped out by the actions of these black soldiers?????????




Shalom
If America is a Christian nation, where does that leave you? Should we just tolerate your people as a sort of dhimmis?

Anne: Jefferson's bible eliminates any reference to Jesus' divinity. That was the corruption he spoke of.

Left angle: Lief Ericsson discovered America.

Karen
"Just talking to an old friend of mine the other day per telephone. He's a very bright, rough and ready sort of fellow. He actually said to me, "I truly believe Obama was sent to us as a GIFT FROM GOD!" He said this when I told him I'd voted for McCain! I hope God is watching out for us cause the Obamites are so far gone, they're in another world altogether! Maybe another galaxy! Signed, Still Stupified in Cajunland"

YOU WON'T BELiEVE THiS!

I was watching the governor of Alaska the other day per television. She's...okay, I can't mimic your sentence with regards to her, so I'll just move on. She actually said to a whole bunch of people that the Iraq war was "a TASK FROM GOD!" I hope God is watching out for us 'cause the conservatives are so far gone, they're in another world altogether! Maybe another galaxy!

YOU WON'T BELIEVE THIS!
Just talking to an old friend of mine the other day per telephone. He's a very bright, rough and ready sort of fellow. He actually said to me, "I truly believe Obama was sent to us as a GIFT FROM GOD!" He said this when I told him I'd voted for McCain! I hope God is watching out for us cause the Obamites are so far gone, they're in another world altogether! Maybe another galaxy! Signed, Still Stupified in Cajunland

Asian-American History Month
Thanx for the thoughtful essay. Will someone please help me get the word out that Asian-Americans are worthy of praise? They feed us in hundreds of thousands of Asian restaurants. Their children excel in school and go on to college where they learn what's needed to contribute greatly in science, technology, medicine, engineering, etc. They never complain, make demands, protest, etc. Yet, they also suffered prejudice and slave conditions in our history. Chinese coolies helped build our railroads and mines. Yet they remain almost absent from movies (except martial arts movies) and TV anchor shows.

Observing Thanksgiving
Michael:

Mahalo for the history lessons!

I've got to pick up your book and read it.

I consider myself, first, a Child of God and second, an American who happens to be Hawaiian.

The history of the interactions of the Native Hawaiians and the haoles (foreigners) are somewhat similar to the Native Americans. Our population was decimated by the diseases brought by haoles and our monarchy was overthrown. Some reparations have been made and there are groups that want sovereignty.

I'm hoping you're as well versed in Hawaiian history as you are in American history.

The point is that even though I know the Hawaiians were wronged, I will not and cannot hold this against the American people today.

I believe that this is the greatest country that has ever existed and that it is truly blessed by God.

I am thankful for that fact and for the gospel of Jesus Christ which gives me not only consolaton but clarity of thought.

We, as a nation, should give thanks everyday for all that we have.

Have a Happy One!

The left leads with lies
it's all they know. The lies touted by the left about this country aren't just irresponsible they are dangerous and have caused people to lose their lives.

There isn't a nation on the face of the earth that has gone to the lengths that we go to do the right thing. It's disgusting how far the left want to tear it down.

When it comes to slavery I too think the moveon moron's should follow their own words move on.

Thanksgiving - 4 years from now...
I have a lot to be grateful for, but Obaby as President is NOT one of them.

Reagan killed with the line "Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago", but I wonder if the US and the Kook-Aids will be better off in 4 years.

I for one
am not going to beat myself, or anyone else up for something that happened in the past. The slave owners are long since dead. I believe our nation has learned from the past, we have come a long way, and we have a long way to go. No excuses, drive on, it's our way.

THANK YOU, JUDITH!
Very thoughtful post. God bless you all!

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!

Thanks for the invite, Jim's Jab...
but my point was that Medved is basically saying that there were free Blacks, so we can excuse the "few" who were made slaves. Again, the condoning of the practice is supposed to be sufficient. Native Americans have not recovered from their treatment, neither have Blacks. What's worse, is to read posts stating that all should be grateful to be here. We are one people, but we haven't all had the same experiences. From three-fifths of a person to "literacy tests" to redlining to "white flight", it has not been the most genial of treatment. I'm grateful to have what I have and be where I am, but it does not wipe out the ignorance of what America has been to many here...good as well as bad.

Responsibility
The fact that slavery existed and that American Indians were displaced from their land and homes cannot be disputed. It happened. It is an ugly part of our history and if nothing else, we should learn from it.

I can also understand that with the woeful ignorance of Americans becoming abundantly clear in this election, that some Americans might want to pull up stakes and live elsewhere. The problem with that solution is that you bring your baggage with you if you haven't already sorted it out and being in a different environment or country won't do that for you.

I believe, however, that when dealing with the issues we have to today, particularly when rearing children, it is not the responsibility of the neighbors near you to carry some sort of guilt load on their back to correct past wrongs. Their duty is to be honest and forth right, keep an honor their families, and care enough about America to stand strong and help her to be the best that she can be.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Pause
It would give me pause if slavery still existed. It does not, so I give thanks. Welcome to the 21st century Greg.

UNBELIEVABLE!
I have never, ever seen anyone excuse slavery and the slaughter of Native Americans. So it was okay for the passage of the so-called Indian Removal Act. You fail to mention, Mr. Medved, that many Natives died of disease and famine because they were forcibly removed from their own land and made to walk from the east to Oklahoma. Natives were supposed to keep that land forever, but, of course, the government reneged on that "deal" as well. You write your article as if Natives should "give thanks" for all that's been done to them.

Slavery is the worst atrocity committed by this country and its government. The White House, the most ubiquitous symbol of U.S. democracy, was built on the backs of Blacks. That government was complicit in the slave business should give you pause. But it doesn't.

wwsword
First of all, there is significantly more evidence to support the genocide of jews undertaken by the third reich. As for the genocide of native Americans, one wonders, with nobody trying to stop it, why it failed to succeed. By every account there are more people of native American extraction living now, than there were when white settlers first got here.

It seems that the point of Medved's article was completely missed. His argument has never been that slavery was not a horrible crime, or that mistreatment of native Americans was just. But this idea that the white man was bent on the utter extermination of "indians" is patently and demonstrably false.

Congratulations
It is nice to hear a voice of reason crying out in the wilderness. I just want you to know that you have a soul brother out here.

Jack King
Irvine, CA

Hunter
So you agree with Medved then.

Alaska...
JO in AK Wrote:
I for one am tired of this ridderick! ...
with people coming into our country illigally...We do not have the ecomonic ability to handle the mounting populace of illigal people in our country. I don't want to hear anyone complain about...
OMG WE shore du half too make shore that thos gosh dang illigals lern themselfs the inglish language...shore du!
You betcha!
OMFG
Thanks!

What is Medved's point?
What is the point of revision BS like this? Like it or not, our country has done some lousy things over the years. Why should we deny that? As the saying goes, "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

Does it make us responsible today for every act committed by our forefathers? Does it somehow diminish us as a country? Of course not on both counts.

Facts remain - "we" were responsible for the deaths of many Native Americans. Medved says 95% of the Native deaths were dues to disease. I don't know about that, but if so, the other 5% were killed by our campaigns to destroy the buffalo. We took away the Indian's main food, clothing and shelter source and, volia, they quit being a "problem". Why does Medved fail to mention this?

As for the country being "built upon the backs of slaves"...nobody has ever said that slaves did all the work. But if even a percentage of the workers were slaves, then the above statement is true.

Get a clue, Medved. And get your head out of the sand.

Blame their tribes Leaders
The whiteman didn't start it they were sold out by their own kind. It is a petty that people can't get on with life. We had nothing to do with all that. It is done and over and has been for many years. Myself and my children had nothing to do with the Slaves. People want money and they will say an do anything to get it.
I for one am tired of this ridderick! My family came through the rightful doors from the old county. They had to learn the lanauage they had to have sponsoship they had to have a jobs. And they did all of it to become Americans. Which I'm very proud of them for doing so. I know that I jumped from one problem that people have to another, but in some ways there is a link. We can not sustain the freedoms that we are so blessed with, with people coming into our country illigally. We do not have the ecomonic ability to handle the mounting populace of illigal people in our country. I don't want to hear anyone complain about economics if they voted to Mr Obama. I did not so I will complain! If I don't see the rightful things being done.

I take issue with Number Ten
I haven't read your book Michael, so i'm sure I don't have all the information I need on your "Big Lie Number 10". You say in the article however that you see a steady decline in teen pregnancies and drug abuse, etc. I do see our country in a moral decline due to its penchant for liberty. A real Catch 22. I love liberty but see the relative freedom we have as Americans to do whatever we want driving us downward. A steady decline in some numbers of problem areas of society doesn't neccessarily mean we are turning the country around. Only when our country experienced massive downfalls and tragedies did we have a true swing to the conservative (moral, christian, ethical) side. Whenever a war was won, a disease was conquered or a 911 pulled us together as a nation, we had a revival of sorts as a people and swung right. I dont see any big event on the horizon with the exception of the collapse of our world money system and right now I don't think people are really that worried about it. When the people who voted for Obama said it was because of the economy what they really wanted was their own personal bailout. They're getting it thanks to pressure from an out of control congress and an president who wants to save some face with the people before heading off into the sunset.
I'll keep going to church and praying for our country, but the decline in society at large is still going to happen as long as we turn a blind eye and don't take advantage of significant moments in history to right ourselves.

I'm sorry but who are selling this garbage to...
WTf men read a history book . I'm history major medved,please go and sell your crap to the morons.The bad thing about history is the fact that a lot of other stuff were left out...

Medved you're a moron..

wwsword
What genocide? The Holocaust and slavery share absolutely no similarities.

Holocaust Denial
There's no difference between what Medved is doing and what Nazis do when they deny the Holocaust. He's an apologist for genocide and slavery.

Cochise?
Merle.
I'm not sure but I think that Crazy Horse won that battle. A proud warrior. At least get your racism right.
Thanks.

easy money
Whoa! Hold on Cochise, put down the bow and arrows, the wars over, you got Custer, you won.
Settle down, go back in your casino and have a few drinks.
No point in getting too excited about this.

JAG CA, Chuck
I wonder, if the activists in CA get their way once again, subverting the will of the majority, and science finds that homosexuality is genetic, will they become an ally against abortion rights? Do the activists understand why prop 8 passed? Do they understand that it was pro abortion Democrats that voted for Obama who pushed yes on 8 into the win column? What a picture it would be seeing Gay activists standing hand in hand with Pro Life Conservatives to protect the life of the unborn, regardless of their genetics. Just food for thought;o)

Right on Booker. Don Juan's Sledgehammer
The sledgehammer of government is what the left in this country uses best. Pass proposition 8 defining marriage as man/woman and you are labelled a hater, bigot and homophobe. If you gave money to pass prop 8 you will be hunted down and fired from your job. Witness the head of the LA Film Festival.

Where same sex marriage is allowed it will be closely followed by making criminal any speech that denigrates homosexual behavior. Outlawing any church which would dare not preform a homosexual "marriage." Banning Boy Scouts from any public facility if they forbid homosexual scout leaders. Yes all must agree with the left or the government will make you agree.

When your only religion is secular humanism you can do no wrong and any who do not agree will have to go to the guillotine. Witness the French Revolution.



for all the bad
if the USA is such a bad country then why in all it's history has the entire world tried to get in? As a country we have made mistakes but we are the best place to live (period). I vote and try to live a clean Christain moral live. Although Iam not perfect, I still know what is moral and what is not, I do fall short. But the thing for all to remember here is there is hope for the person (or country) who has sinned, but none for the ones who think it is not a sin. Example: active gays, pro-abortion etc.

Roll Tide!
Thanksgiving is about football, specifically NCAA football, even more specifically about the Alabama (11-0) v. Auburn (may the fleas of 1,000 camels infest their armpits) game on Saturday.

As a person who has a large banner somewhere in storage reading BEAR BRYANT FOR PRESIDENT and who knows the answer to the question as to what Auburn does during half-time (puts their cheerleaders out to graze), I say that if the lefties concentrate on maligning things from history that they do not know about or understand, and leave NCAA football alone, we will get along just fine.

And in conclusion:

ROLL TIDE!

Medved lies again (what a surprise)
The government "invariably" condemned Indian massacres, says Medved. Oh really? So when generals Sheridan and Sherman subdued the tribes of the west, regularly ordering that every person in a village is to be killed, including the women and children, this was condemned? Invariably? No exception?

Gimme a break. The subjugation and extermination of resisting tribes (and even non-resisting ones) was official national policy.

The "heroic" (ironic quotes) Sherman, who uttered the famous claim that the "only good Indian is a dead Indian," is celebrated by having modern tanks and national monuments named after him.

His spirit lives on at Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib.

Everyone's an expert . . . ?

In this land of the often freely manipulated, and the home of the bravely opinionated, everyone and their second cousin is free to "speak their mind" . . . even if their particular mind has no serious academic or professional qualifications which can serve as a sound foundation on which to voice an opinion about the issue in question.
It is a pretty safe bet that most of those posting comments . . .about what Jefferson, Madison, Franklin or Adams "believed" about religion . . . have probably read little or none of those gentlemen's ORIGINAL work in detail. It is more likely that most of those posters have simply read quotes attributed to those gentlemen, then cherry-picked the ones they liked. The objective truth is very rarely as dogmatically "black and white" as the partisans of any ideological extreme would like us to believe. I have a very large personal library of the writings of Jefferson, Madison, Thomas Paine, etc., and the documentation and debates of the Constitutional Convention. For years, I have been trying to wade through it all. However, it is manifestly evident that all of these gentlemen, in one degree or another, had doubts about their own positions on issues. They were introspective, and often torn by ambivalence.
Everyone would do well to refrain from the childish attempt to accuse others of "ignorance" . . . simply because they disagree over conclusions about evidence which is often opaque.

Medved
Medved's attempt to "whitewash" (pun intended) history is laughable. No amount of right-wing revisionist history can efface the past. By the way, thanks to the right-wingers for Obama's victory. Keep up your hateful rants. I, as a liberal, do NOT want the fairness doctrine re-enacted. We don't want to shut you up! Keep talking!

ML Bushman
If you really believe what you wrote, and you stay to watch the country fall. How will you explain your lack of courage to your daughter? There are many countries that would have you, quit looking for excuses.

Medved
I like living in Medved land. It is all so simple and non-gay. A shiny happy place. Shiny happy white people living hand in hand. What a very strange person. I like this walk into right wing world. I will tell my friends.
By BYE ML Bushman. I feel sorry for your child.
Shame on you.
THANKS!!

I'd be laughing if
this weren't so serious.

Someone said way back in this thread, "You don't see Americans running to some other country..." or words to that effect.

Let me tell you something. Take a look at yourselves, your ridiculous back and forth here, your lack of intolerance toward one another, your staunch defenses of your position against another, your total ignorance of the fact that Medved here is promoting his book, standard marketing 101.

If some of you here think you represent the best your particular flavor of religion or politics has to offer, I feel for your cause.

I would take my child and leave this country tomorrow, if the country where I would choose to hide out and watch America's fall from afar would have us, but alas, they have a rigorous set of requirements that I have yet to undertake. Oh, but don't ever doubt that I want to see my daughter safe and free--elsewhere. Just step back and look at yourselves. The reasons should be abundantly clear, starting with the overwhelming ignorance.

ARTICLE
WOW... MEDVED'S words ring true... I am so SICK of hearing about how "bad" America is and what an "awful" history we have. The liberal poisons have truly infected our society. It's not surprising that, if a lie is told long enough,it will be eventually be held as truth. But then again... there are alot of brainless idiots out there who WANT to believe these lies JUST to "prove" their stupid liberal ways of thinking... MEDVED needs to have these truths of his broadcast on television and taught in schools. We need to counter-act and dispel the CRAP (I'd like to use another word!).
GOD BLESS, KEEP, AND PROTECT AMERICA 4EVER!!!

Tolerance?
Don Juan, what do you mean by tolerance? What is your source of information for this principle of tolerance?

Force? Who is forcing their religion on to someone? And if they are, how is it wrong? What authority do you get that from? If you don't believe in Christianity, then what is your basis for it's legality?

State sponsored suicide
What is it about all this running down the country? It's like, if we are depressed enough, we will kill ourselves and morph into some kind of institution like Europe or South America has. Most families cheapen down the skeletons in their closets and enhance the relatives of past and present to give the kids a sense of pride.

God Bless and Protect - American Warrior
The American Warrior is someone who is walking the hero's path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness for Duty, Honor and Country.

The American Warrior is someone who frightens many people because they live in denial of reality, the American Warrior reminds those people that violence exists in the world.

The American Warrior has the capacity for violence towards those who threaten America and the American way of life.

The American Warrior is a constant reminder that there are terrorists in the land and those that wish to destroy America are already here on American soil.

The American Warrior on September 11, 2001, rushed towards the danger instead of fleeing from it, intent on defending and helping those American citizens in danger. Many American Warriors gave their lives that day and many more were willing to give the ultimate sacrifice for America and its citizens.

Most Americans are glad that they were not on the planes that crashed into the WTC and the Pentagon - the American Warrior wished they had been on those planes because they might have made a difference.

American Warriors were on United Airlines Flight 93 and defended unto death America and its citizens with the cry "lets roll".

The American Warrior waits for the day that they have lived for and trained for their entire life - to defend until death, America and its citizens.

"There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men." - Edmund Burke

This Thanksgiving, I salute the American Warrior, both living and dead. Men and women who serve in the Armed Forces, Police Forces, Fire Departments and ordinary civilians who rush forward to our defense instead of running from danger.

The American Warrior - God Bless and Protect You!

Yes, but . . . .
As a center-right historian and a Christian I hate to disagree with Mr. Medved. But we must be careful not to do what Mr.Moore does.

The Founding Fathers would not be found in anything like a modern evangelical church. Their theology ranged from what we might think of as a liberal Christianity to Deism. For example, none emphasized the issue of personal salvation or supported missionary work. Only Benjamin Rush, friend to Adams and Jefferson, cold be considered an evangelical. And Rush is a relatively minor figure. Jefferson rewrote the New Teatament, leaving out all of the miracles.

The founders believed that religion was necessary for a free people becasue it promoted civic virtue. But "religion" could embrace many different beliefs. The founders were creatures of the Englightenment, who were highly skeptical of anything that went against human reason. Yes, probably most believed in the existence of God, but they embraced the Divine Being more as a mystery than with any certitude set down in Scripture.

Christian evangelicals today can take heat that during the time of the American Revolution, the most radical and patriotic strongholds tended to be Calvinist Christian. Most elites were not evengelical but many ordinary people were. It is also interesting to note that evangelical Christianity undermined slavery in places like Virginia, where one could actually find - for a time - masters and slaves worshipping shoulder to shoulder.

But, it is very wong to say that the USA was founded as a Christian nation. Instead, we need to understand that the founders believed in the importance of relgion for a free people.

Obama not a NATURAL BORN US Citizen!
Hey folks, don't you think it's a little presumptuous to argue about Obama's appointments and policies, when he's not even a natural born US citizen? Ergo, he doesn't meet one of the three basic qualifications for the presidency? HE WAS BORN IN KENYA, AND ALL HE HAS OFFERED SO FAR IS A FAKE BIRTH CERTIFICATE?

DEMAND OBAMA PROVE HE'S A NATURAL U.S. BORN CITIZEN - SIGN THE PETITION

http://moniquemonicat.wordpress.com/2008/11/09/%E2%80%A2-si gn-obama-petition/

Medved right on the money
Liberals have "de-constructed" American History and maligned this great nation to set themselves up as the only ones capable of righting the manufactured wrongs.

I challenge anyone to go to the Thomas Jefferson memorial in Washington DC, read Jefferson's own words on its walls, and come away still believing that this nation wasn't founded by deeply religious men, whose personal philosophies were influenced by an abiding reverance for the Almighty.

Nice downer, Medved . . .
For all the complaining that Medved and his ilk do about the trashing of America and patriotism by "leftists", he himself takes it one step further. Now, he bemoans that Thanksgiving itself is "poisoned" a passing mention that some persistent flaws in America make the election of a member of a one-oppressed race all the more sweeter. Who cares if someone overstates the historical back story a little to make their point? Why does Medved hate America so much that others' appreciation of the election denigrates the penultimate American holiday of faith and hope. What a freakin' poor loser! Or maybe he's just trying to sell a book. But he clearly has no understanding of what Thansgiving ought to be about -- nay, needs to be about -- right now.

To Anne
Yeah, Tim from Texas really sort of owned you there. Cherry-picking quotes ain't the way to win this argument. But it's really the only way you can, at least when it comes to the "important" founders. They had a belief in the divine, but most of them were smart enough to realize that if a god did exist, it'd be far beyond the realm of human comprehension to figure out his master plan. Thus, they didn't worry about it. Humanists, deists...call 'em what you want. As long as it ain't evangelicals, 'cause that they most certainly were not.

You know, the funny thing is, most atheists don't have much of a problem with the tenets of Christianity. We certainly despise the way you pick and choose amongst them, though. You can't throw out half the dogma and keep the stuff you like and expect it to be treated as anything but intellectually - and theologically - dishonest.

In other words, show me where Jesus spoke out in favor of preemptive wars designed to secure American democracy, and we'll talk. Or the passage where he endorses every conservative candidate for office.

Also, seriously...do a little analysis, a little critical thinking. Jefferson's phrase, "I am a real Christian..." what does that suggest to you? Why was there the need to put "real" in that sentence? I'll give you a hint: your side does it a lot with their, "I'm a real American," or, "Here in real America," garbage. It implies the others ain't so much. Yeah, he was taking a potshot at you folks who treat Christian doctrine like a buffet, taking what you want and leaving the rest.

????

The lady doth protest too much...


USA
If it is so bad, why do so many people spend so much money,take so much time, expend so much effort and dare such danger just to get into the USA. Is the phenomenon of the same magnitude in any other country. The USA has its flaws, but it has done more good for more people than has any other.
There are those who want to make it a coercive Utopia such as was tried in Russia, China, North Korea and Cuba as well as in Vietnam and Cambodia. Note how well those have turned out and also note that the ones who have rid themselves of some (not all yet) of Marxist ways are doing much better than those who continue the Marxist model.

Meved is Woefully Misinformed
Michael must get his "knowledge" of history from such "scholars" as David Barton. Either that, or he just makes it up as he goes along. His assertions about Jefferson are simply ludicrous. You folks have ruined this country in the past eight years. Yet, you have the temerity to suggest that you have a monopoly on wisdom and have cornered the market on patriotism.

David Hart
http://www.tips-Q.com

the next line
Quotes should show the whole thing, not just the part you like.

"But the greatest of all the reformers of the depraved religion of his own country, was Jesus of Nazareth. Abstracting what is really his from the rubbish in which it is buried, easily distinguished by its lustre from the dross of his biographers, and as separable from that as the diamond from the dunghill,..." Thomas Jefferson, Letter to William Short, October 31, 1819

and

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites" –Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782.

Roy: Well said!

When my husband, children and I were about to embark on what was supposed to be a four year assignment in Europe, all I wanted to be sure of was when we'd be coming HOME to the US.

And, isn't it interesting that so many people wait in line, sometimes for years, to immigrate to the US? And that doesn't even take into account the people who are willing to break the law to make the US their home as well.

Yeah, GO FIGURE!! :-)

Liberals and History
One must be ignorant of our nation's history to believe most of the "facts" liberals, such as Michael Moore, espouse. Our nation's founders believed in a Supreme Being, a faith sadly lacking in too many of our nation's liberals.

Fine tune it
Anne,
No sane person would deny that the vast majority of the founders were Christians to some degree, some, like Adams, passionately so.

However, when it came to putting pen to paper, the consensus was that there would be no establishment of religion or religious tests, the evidence is clear, that religious freedom would be the law of the land.

As to why is grounds for a lively debate. My personal opinion is that the European religious wars and conflicts between Catholics and Protestants were fresh in the minds of the founders, even though most of these conflicts had occurred decades and centuries prior. But look at us. We're discussing events over two centuries old. The founders were learned men - men of letters and history as well as men of religion. It isn't beyond reason to conclude that the founders decided government(and society) should be divinely guided, with the divinity generic.

Zero % Satisfaction with America???
After having lived in the USA for close to 70 Years without being lynched, starved or otherwise severely mistreated I've always wondered if I have been exceptionally lucky or AM I JUST TOO STUPID TO KNOW ANY BETTER???
I know many 1st/2nd generations of Immigrantsand ALL I know are genuinely happy to continue living in this OPPRESSIVE COUNTRY!!!
I REALLY MUST BE STUPID OR TOTALLY UNINFORMED!
Come to think about it, I've lived in FOUR (4) other Countries in that time, BUT CAME HOME!!??
GO FIGURE!!

I would like to know
how what the American government did to the Aboriginals was necessarily any worse than what those same aboriginals did to EACH OTHER. They practiced slavery, made war against each other, and didn't advance their civilizations one inch for all the centuries of their existence; some tribes even practiced human sacrifice. They in fact were not the noble savages of liberal fantasy-land. Much of Africa is what America used to be before conquest and settlement: tribal-and brutal. Who would argue that Africa is a wonderful place to live?

Those who scream that Darwinism is science are strangely reluctant to apply that same standard to the natural ebb and flow of nations, tribes and cultures. Why is this-is there some need for these people to feel precious and this is how it's played out?

Who Cares
Michael is right, but who cares?

The lies he seems to debunk are alive and well. And they are the kinds of "big lies: that can have the day.

So while I praise Michael for his debunking, I offer little hope for America.

scooternyc: And how about this......

Thomas Jefferson.....

http://www.faithofourfathers.net/jefferson.html

"Written in the front of his personal Bible, he wrote:

"'I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our creator.'

"In 1803, at the request of President Thomas Jefferson, the United States Congress allocated federal funds for the salary of a preacher and the construction of his church. That same year, Congress, again at Jefferson’s request, ratified a treaty with the Kaskaskia Indians. Congress recognized that most of the members of the tribe had been converted to Christianity, and Congress gave a subsidy of $100.00 a year for seven years for the support of a priest so that he could 'instruct as many ... children as possible.'

"On April 21, 1803, Jefferson wrote this to Dr. Benjamin Rush (also a signer of the Declaration of Independence):

“'My views...are the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, and very different from the anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others.'

"In that same letter, he wrote,

“'To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others.'

"In a letter to William Short on October 31, 1819, he wrote:

“'But the greatest of all the reformers of the depraved religion of His own country, was Jesus of Nazareth.'”

scooternyc: As usual, you're WRONG!

Take a look at this... if you dare!

http://www.faithofourfathers.net/

How about this for starters?

John Adams:
"On April 18, 1775, a British soldier ordered him, John Hancock, and others to disperse in the name of George the Sovereign King of England. Adams responded to him:

“We recognize no sovereign but God, and no king but Jesus!”

"In an October 13, 1789 address to the military, he said:

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

And there's plenty more....


Quibbling over genocide
This article had lots of facts and figures and I'll resist the urge to issue a thorough critique.
I'll be generous and concede that what the US government did to Indians wasn't "genocide". So what? Does that make events like the "Trail of Tears" right because they were something atrocious and yet not quite genocidal.
Why someone would want to whitewash these issues is beyond me?
Does that mean America is irretrievabely damned? No. But we should not ignore our sins either.

Obama's lies poison America
OBAMA MUST STAND UP NOW OR STEP DOWN
By Dr. Edwin Vieira, Jr., Ph.D., J.D.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Vieira/edwin84.htm

SIGN THE PETITION TO FORCE BARACK OBAMA TO PROVE HIS NATURAL BORN CITIZENSHIP
AS REQUIRED BY THE U.S. CONSTITUTION
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId= 81550

Am. is a blessed and superior place
and has freed nearly 2 billion people since its founding.

1st, the colonoists freed themselves of colonial rule: 2.5 million (1776)

2nd, Lincoln freed 3.94 million slaves (1863)

3rd, in winning the Spn-Am War, the US freed 12-13,000,000 slaves in S. Af. alone, and freed all other slaves of ghe Spanish Empire (1898)

4th, Am. liberated Europe twice in the 20th C.: 368,000,000 in 1918 and 738,000,000 in 1945 (1918, 1945)

5th, the US liberated Japan's 72,000,000 from totalitarian theocracy to democratic capitalism (1945-1954)

6th, Am. with he UN saved 3,430,000 S. Koreans from Northern communism (1952)

7th, the US freed the entire communist Eastern bloc and the USSR; 300,000,000 the Eastern bloc (Poland to Albania); USSR was 287,000,000 (1989)

8th, in the Middle East, the US freed 22,000,000 Kuwaitis (1991) and 20,000,000+ Afghanistanis (2003) and 24,000,000 Iraqis (2003)

When the Indonesia tsunami struck all of the aid and medical supplies were delivered by US military ships and servicemen, at our cost.

The Bush initiative in Africa for AIDS has helped millions and is never mentioned anywhere.

Those people who denigrate the US because their own self esteem is nonexistent or they are just haters can never any other nation in world history that has done so much in the name of freedom for the world at large. The Brit. Empire was previously close, but the English seized property and colonialized where it *liberated.* For all the lefty blather about *imperialist* America, we have been the least imperialistic country that has ever existed.

The statistics tell the story. Our only failure was Indochina which the left forced us to abandon and there upwards of 5,000,000 died because of our withdrawal and defeat.

Ownership
The only reason someone would "claim" that the Founders were christian or that they didn't intend or want a secular nation is to TAKE OWNERSHIP OF THE NATION THROUGH RELIGION.

The illogic of this is that the First Amendment clearly states, Freedom of Religion.

Nothing more.

Nothing less.

Freedom of religion, not freedom from religion as long as it's your religion.

Freedom of religion is freedom from religion.

Freedom to practice whatever religion you personally choose.

Freedom from the government establishing any one particular religion.

I hope the religious keep up this rhetoric until enough people get so sick and tired of it that they start a massive backlash and drive these idiots out of the public square once and for all.

As an American I uphold, defend and endorse ANY AMERICAN having his or her own belief system or religion.

But it's not enough.

It's never enough for these idiots!

It's not ever enough until, like liberal loons, they take over and impose their ideology.

They will not be satisfied, until like liberal loons, they force it on everyone through government legislation and the courts.

Conservatives are so like Liberals!

It's so pathetic.

They hate libs with all their regulations, controls and lack of freedom, yet, THEY DO THE VERY SAME THING WITH RELIGION.

What hypocrites!

alert!! Right Wing Circle Jerkers
Is it his ridiculous porn star mustache that qualifies this nut to rewrite history? One gets the sense that if he were a "proud patriotic member" of a conservative german nationalist party he would be "putting into perspective" the holocaust and you morons would sit around kissing his a** and saying "mmm tastes so intelligent"

Just leave us alone
Medved asserts that "the popular assumption that our founders determined to create a secular, not a Christian, nation....has produced widespread hysteria over the program of 'the Christian right.'"

Most Americans---historical ignoramuses for the most part--- probably don't know or care about the intentions of the founding fathers when it came to religion. But a lot of them are firmly convinced that "the Christian right" is wrong in attempting to impose its particular values on everyone else.

Kyle cont'd
As mentioned before, the Federal Reserve is the problem and far from the caregiver. There role actually began in 1913 and played a huge part in causing the great depression. It was the Fed's notion of fractional reserve banking that made "easy credit" that pushed the risky, hubris inflation of stocks and other products. Once Nixon took us off the gold standard and allowed for a pure fiat system is when the debt started to skyrocket.

Like a typical epigone recite what others tell you to think. If you want the truth go to http://www.mises.org and start reading the writers who actually predict all of this and can explain it or continue lapping the liberal-aid.

Kyle
Kyle,

Wow, you have really bought into the Keynesian/Marxism notion of economics. I guess it is not your fault; lies are all that are taught in school.

Laissez Faire economics is the only way to go. All others thing are a manipulation of economics through the initiation of force, often best described as theft and is un-ethical

True market regulation would allow for market manipulation, but the answer is not to give the government a monopoly on such force. The governments role is only to ensure the initiation of force is not used. To believe that the government should come in and tell the banks they must lend to the risky, then purchase the debt through a GSE, have the government insure the assets and sell them to investment banks as a low risk product and push the whole system through an inflationary fiat money system is hardly a sign of a free market. Besides, do you know what a derivative even is. Here is a clue, it has a lot to do with insurance products and actuary tables and really nothing to do with government. However, it often works quite well for managing risk. By the way a Central Bank using Fiat money is the source of all bubbles. Please refer to Mises or Hayek's Business Cycle theory.

I hope we can say bye bye to green technology. First Global warming is a sham. Go and look at the actual science. Not the science that politicians push. Both parties do it. Furthermore, if green technology was so promising, you would not have to force business to engage in it. Do you really think you have to force businesses to make a profit?

Earth to Kyle
Wake up son, you have not studied History, you buy into almost anything. Show me successful total government control anywhere in the world or in history. Have you personally ever created a JOB? What entity actually created the housing bubble? If you could, in an instant, have the perfect world, what would that world look like?

scrub-a-dub
You real Americans are really at it this year, aren't you? You have so much invested in equating national blamelessness with personal honor and I can't help wondering why. Why not acknowledge that there is no depth to which humankind will not sink. America is populated by humans; therefore it reeks of our bad behavior. So what if smallpox was not intentionally distributed to Native Americans? What was done to them was bad enough without that. There is no reason to the illusion that the United States is some blessed and superior place. It's not. You don't have to take that personally. Or do you? And if so, why?

Hey Anne
How about instead of making fun of me and for once debate me on issues.

For example you still haven't answered why laissez faire economcis is the only way to go.

Well maybe i should just anwer why it isn't the way to go.

First of all zero regulation means market manipulation, low wages, overspeculation, hubris in the market that allows people to have access to derivatives, and debt tools, that allows them to take the riskiest of risks and create insurmountable debt, and an unstable bubble ridden market (because there would be no spending base known as the MIDDLE CLASS, and if they were to spend they would have to burrow loose credit, which is also available under a zero regulation economy).

Second it means bye bye to forcing green technology into the market, which we're going to need if we want to meet the deadline for lowering fuel emmisions, and by the way if we don't then say hello to global warming and the hundreds of billions of dollars it's going to require to repair the collateral damage caused by it.

And finally it would mean bye bye to the federal reserve acting as the caregiver to the financial sector, keeping it from going under,(this began in the late 70's and escalated into the 80's under OMG Reagan). And it would mean adios to te government giving out crappy market statstics(this escalated in the 90's,and it happened under OMG Gingrich, and it ranges from a crappy interpretation of the consumer price index to just giving out data on inflationary rates that makes it seems lower than it actually is, hence if we were using the ones that we were using before Clinton then the inflation rates for 2007, the so called good old days, would probably of ranged from 6-7%).


richard
i know there was no actual document that had manifest destiny at the top of it.i was refering to the monroe doctrine.oh and i'd stack up my public education against anyones.especially yours lol.

ClearCommentary: Just IGNORE kyle...

His only purpose here is to harass, and then he gets foul mouthed and will start throwing yet another temper tantrum...

He's a socialist, and doesn't even know it, and he's out of his league here... and doesn't even know it. LOL

ClearCommentary.com
First of all the whole thing about "corrosive liberalism we've been subjected to in recent years" is in your head. Since 2006 there's been nothing but paralysis. And guess what, Bush is more than Reagan, Bush is not a liberal either.

ANd yes i'm aware that your going to say that he made the government bigger, but in actuallity he made it more tyrannical through the Iraq war, torture, wire taps, and increasing the military( all the things that you conservatives usually say are the only neccesary things in government). While at the same time he crippled regulatory branches in the government(by appointing hacks), hence making the government under Bush in several other aspects smaller. So if you say we need a true conservative then maybe you mean somebody to the LEFT of the guy we have already because that's as far right as it's going to get.

define fullblown conservatism: something America tried in the first few years of the 21st century.

A few more things:
Does anyone actually think the Founders would've wanted to empower a massive bureaucracy in which UNELECTED and UNACCOUNTABLE nebbishes concoct policy and then ram it down our throats? Look at toilets and light bulbs.

I have no problem with CFL lighting IF it's a choice. The industry could not GIVE these turds away so they got some Congress critter to alter environmental law so that some dweeb in a cubicle somewhere could mandate that we HAVE to buy them. I wonder HOW MUCH Lights of America, Phillips and God knows who else paid these stooges?

They even frakked up our toilets. We used to have 3.5 gallon or larger tanks and one flush did the job. Now you have 1.4 gallons and you flush THREE times. That equals 4.2 gallons so WHERE are we "saving water"?

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Suuuuuuure
"Even Jefferson, an unconventional religious thinker..."

El oh el. That's one way of putting it. That'd be a bit like calling Bush, "An unconventional intellectual."

Donald
“Take your bag of Cheetos and go to the Daily Kook site with the rest of the kiddies”
That’s it? That’s your comeback to my saying you are being childish? Yes, you certainly showed me and everyone else that you can debate issues man to man.
It’s comments like this that make me wonder if you’re not some liberal trying to make conservatives look like idiots by masquerading as a cliché.

Let me 'splain!
FoolMouse,

The Founders NEVER wanted all power concentrated in one little mosquito swamp on the Potomac. The Fed was created BY the States as a clearing house for functions specifically enumerated in the CONUS.

They always intended for the STATE governments to have more influence over people's lives since "one size fits all" plans and programs usually fit VERY FEW in fact.

The state and county level was SUPPOSED to be the heart of government. At that level the government can be much more responsive to the needs of the people and tailored to their local eccentricities. In other words, much more "in touch" with the people than those who pontificate from on high in Foggy Bottom.

Get it? Good!!

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

The use and abuse of history
Mr. Medved:

It's axiomatic that those who write history control it, which is why the left's version of American history, despite its transparently frabricated content, continues to be accepted as truth.

Our public education system is rife with activist liberals bent upon shaping the malleable minds of our youth, inculcating with the myths that are the stuff of the hard left.

If what you say is true, that there is some kind of conservative revolt afoot, a return to traditional values, it would certainly be a welcome relief from the corrosive liberalism we've been subjected to in recent years.

But I fear an Obama administration that seeks to undermine our security abroad, raise taxes, advance the culture of death with the Freedom of Choice Act, inhibit law-abiding citizens' access to guns, and drown us in a plethora of new regulations.

It's difficult to cut through the gauze of misinformation, but your piece was just the antidote we needed.

Sincerely,

Phil Mella
http://www.clearcommentary.com



Kyle: Here it is.. Now go away!
Anne
Location: PA
Reply # 560
Date: Nov 25, 2008 - 7:02 PM EST Tim/PA: Of course they wouldn't mention

"The Credit Crisis."

They've been wiped out on that a few times. LO

I doubt they understand the "problems with liquidity and capitalization."

Both kiddie Kyle and jerky jeramy are on thin ice here on TH, so it's probably best to just ignore them. :-)



I've got nothing else to say to you!

Anne
"intellectually limited lunatic leftists" now call me crazy Anne but that sounds alot like an insult and it came from you.

Mr. Medved is a great historian....
Yay America! Considering these new historical discoveries by Mr. Medved, I can finally be glad to understand that:
A. The death of Native American people was mostly due to disease (Wow, what an interesting discovery!),
B. Slavery isn't a better economic system than free labor (but never mind what "free labor" meant in the mid-eighteenth century, thats not important),
C. Government isn't a magic genie (wait, do liberals even think that?), and
D. Obama = Moore - I mean, that was your whole point right, liberals are crazy whacks?
What is the point of your book anyway? "Lies My Teacher Told Me" was already written by a true historian who does real research that a Google search engine can't do. Nice plug for your new book, I hope its a critical disaster.

Kyle: I NEVER said that you were on thin

ice because that you were "on thin ice because i wasn't talking about capitalization or liquidity,"

I said you were (and you are) on thin ice because of your temper, anger, and name calling etc.

That's a LARGE PART OF YOUR PROBLEM... you can't read properly, and your reading comprehension is really lacking... a lot...

JAG CA: Left "racist" Angle says....

"They all do it...."

Hmmm. How about the next time Left "racist" Angle shows his ugly leftist face on TH, someone suggest that "they all jump off a bridge?"

With a little luck, he'll take off for the nearest bridge! :-)


Anne
now i just want to get this off my chest. last night I had to get off this forum because a friend of mine called and said that he got this new game called wotlk and out of politeness I went over to his place to check it out. When i got back i found a post made, by you Anne, that said that i was on thin ice because i wasn't talking about capitalization or liquidity, but all i was saying was that you guys shouldn't be critisizing Obama for not believing in laissez faire economics. But in the end you said that i was on thin ice for not referring to capitalization and liquidity or how it relates to the housing crises we're in now, even though i wasn't talking about it.

So instead answer the question i asked. Why is laissez faire economics the only way to go.

T.C.: Yes, I've been watching it on FOX.

Very, very sad, and frightening.

I did hear one short interview with an Indian gentleman who said that when the terrorists came into the restaurant, they asked specifically who was American and British.

Great, huh?

Oh, you mean BSMBC? Yup! Go figure. And that's not to mention some of the leftist lunatic sites on the internet.


And yes, I do thank God Pres. Bush is still in the White House at this moment.

But all too soon I'm afraid Obama will be in OUR White House, and IMO, if you've never believed anything else that Bozo Biden has said, I did (and do) believe him when he said that "Mark my words...." Obama will be tested in the first six months...

THAT'S what I fear since we'll be WITHOUT any real leadership.



They all do it!!!!!
Left Angle, you state that a lot of black churches claim America is a racist hellhole with ole whitey out to kill and imprison blacks on the basis of their skin color.


What a intellectual and reasoned basis for holding something is true. They all do it!!!!

unbelieveable
You can't put to much credence in what some of these people say because they're natural born liars and full of crap up to their eyebrows and above that is hot air.

heyjude writes:"Medved tries to minimize

the effects of slavery and the displacement of native Americans. What absolute B.S.."

GET OVER IT, heyjude!

Medved was NOT TRYING TO MINIMIZE anything, but rather put it all into PERSPECTIVE!


MADNESS IN INDIA!

The terrorists hit upscale hotels and targeted Brits and Americans.

On going as we speak with FOX and CNN providing wall to wall coverage for over two hours.

Anne, if you can imagine it, if you can believe it, until about 30-minutes ago, MSNBC, the favorite cable news station of terroirsts everywhere, the favorite news station of every left-wing, liberal in America, ignored the story!!!! I kid you not!!!!

The luxury hotels catering to Western business men and women were hit by shooter teams. Hostages taken. Explosions have occurred. Over 80 dead.

Chaos on the domestic and the foreign fronts for America on this Thanksgiving Eve.

Tell me Anne, do you, as I do right at this moment, Thank God Obama is not in the White House and President Bush IS?!!


80 people Killed - Americans Held
It's difficult to believe that the American people don't take radical militant religious groups seriously and don't understand how dangerous and threatening they are to our country and our citizens - The news reported that 80 people have been killed in India and are holding Americans hostage - attacking hotels and train stations - and part of America is embracing and giving into their demands in America by using our laws just like 911 and going to our schools to plot against us - Other news stories have been reporting for more than one month that Christians are under serious attack in India by militant religious groups - And, Homeland Security news stories are on line reporting that the subways in New York on alert - Wake up, America - no amount of money is worth worrying about when these militant groups are forcing their way into countries under life threatening conditions around the world - I hope you'll pray for everyone who has been injured or placed in harm's way and pray for the safety of our country and citizens. Investigate and read the stories on line and inform other American citizens of these stories so people will wake up and know that Bush was right and we need to protect our country.

JAG CA: So, Left "racist" Angle claims

he's attended black churches....

How about be prove it! Dates, times, and places!

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA


The Left are interesting folks.
One communistic's technics is the big lie, just like the Left. Makes me wonder if many of the "Left" are communist and either will not admit it, or are so dumb they do not realize they are communists! Will we ever know?

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!

Face the Facts
Medved tries to minimize the effects of slavery and the displacement of native Americans. What absolute B.S.. We Americans have a lot to be proud of, it's true, but we have to look a history--the good and the bad--and not just paint a rosy picture of our origins. The great thing about America is that we truly have tried to correct some of the injustices of the past and there's no point in sugar-coating them.

obama and idiotic liberals like moore
Mr.Medved could have stopped after "idiotic idea" because every idea of that panty waste moore is idiotic.

Russian ships going to Venezuela and bombings across India. Have not heard a word from obama and his foreign policy expertise.

Real easy isn't it, Jesus?

Donald
I totally agree with your last line...impeachment. That's a nice thought. Maybe his Birth Cert. will show up mysteriously on the web. That would be great for a laugh. He is very cocky and acts as though he is the answer for everyone--except, as I said I didn't vote for the guy because of his lack of moral fibers--which is a big fat "0". I reject his pro-choice views. I don't understand why any Catholic or Chrisitan who believes that God created that life in the womb should be destroyed, would vote for an idiot like that. That is one of my biggest pet-peeves about those idiots that voted this retard in office.

Kathy: This is the way it ALWAYS ends

with Left "the racist" Angle...

Eventually, he can't keep up with anyone because he's just too stupid and closed minded... and finally he leaves..

Left "racist" Angle is obviously NOT VERY BRIGHT.

Actually, I think he's an embarrassment to all bright and enlightened black people everywhere!!!

But, just like the herpes, he always comes back to be a real annoyance and a pain.


Anne
"LA has a long and sordid history as am intellectually limited leftist and bigoted poster on TH."

I agree, that clown has major problems.


Where are all the radicals?
Great Michael you've become another Dick Morris yammering about your book all day.

Anyway Volcker, Bob Gates, Larry Summers, Gen Jim Jones, Tim Geithner, Romer.. where are all the radical loons that Obama was supposed to appoint? What the heck is Sean Hannity going to talk about?

Oh yeah all the loons are the columnists for TH.

How is your jaw crazy Ann Coultier?

Left Angle
"IM OUTTA HERE!!"

Good, don't come back.

Ann
You did it....Lefty can't take the heat. BRAVO!
GOOD GOING AND GOOD BYE TO THAT OBAMINATION!!
Have a great Thanksgiving.

ANOTHER DUMB DEM in DENIAL post!!!

Okay, so Bozo Obama got 50%+ of the popular vote..

Hardly a mandate! HA HA HA

More like the skin of his teeth!!!!

However, that is avoiding the ISSUE and what this whole "discussion" was about!

Of that 50%+ who voted for Bozo Obama voted for him because he appears black rather than because he was qualified or had the experience or even knew anything about him?

Probably only 5%, and they were probably on drugs or paid to vote for Boso Obama....

Bet the libbies are so proud!

HA HA HA HA HA HA

Yeah, he may be in office until 2013, but he'll be TOSSED OUT ON HIS EARS after 4yrs.! LOL

Left Angle
"Prez-elect Barack Obama will take the office of POTUS."

Aren't you a genius. And we will all be worse off because of it. While you are beating your chest, tell the megalomaniac to take that silly "The Office of the President Elect" sign off of the podium. That is an embarrassment to this nation. There is no such thing as an office of the president elect. This supports the conclusion that this jerk's ego is way out of control and this will ultimately backfire on him.

"he is currently in the process for assembling his cabinet and staff."

Duh, that is his job and he is off to a poor start. So where is the change? A bunch of Clinton retreads.

He will serve for the next 4 years thru 2013.

There is no guarantee of that. This man's ego and ineptitude is unprecedented. Impeachment is a real possibility with him.

Anne On last thing...
In post #190 please take note of the last sentence..It applies to YOU also..lmao

MikeR
"Frankly, I don’t see how we can discuss things man to man when you refuse to act like one."

Take your bag of Cheetos and go to the Daily Kook site with the rest of the kiddies.

Donald: LA has a long and sordid history

as am intellectually limited leftist and bigoted poster on TH.

He's obviously convinced that whites are bigoted, and he's the ONLY one who is right... because he's black. Blah blah blah....

I don't know why I even bothered with him, or thought that he was capable of anything close to a reasonable or rational debate or discussion with him....




Anne: You are pathetic...
I really feel sorry for you....

for a reality check..read my post at #190

THOSE ARE THE FACTS JACK...DEAL WITH IT!!!


HAVE A GREAT THANKS GIVING..IM OUTTA HERE!!