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Friday, March 13, 2009
Paul  Edwards :: Townhall.com Columnist
How I'm Praying for the President
by Paul Edwards
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We should certainly pray for the president. We should pray for wisdom for him, for strength for him, for protection for him and his family. But where his plans clearly oppose righteousness, we should pray they fail. Where his plans clearly are intended to do harm to the people he leads, contrary to the oath he swore before God, God’s people should pray that those plans do not succeed.

Reasonable men are now beginning to question whether or not Barack Obama is intentionally acting to harm the interests of the American people. (See the American Enterprise Institute’s Kevin Hassett, and mainstream media pundit Howard Fineman). Can God’s people stand idle and allow their elected leader to undermine righteousness? To do so is to be complicit in the unrighteous deeds of our elected leader. We have an obligation to hold him to account, and Barack Obama is ultimately accountable to the Judge of all the earth.

During his first 50 days in office, President Obama has clearly acted in opposition to righteousness by lifting the ban on federal funding of embryonic stem cell research, reversing the Mexico City Policy which forces the use of your tax dollars to fund abortions at overseas abortion facilities, and by acting to rescind the “conscience clause” which protects doctors, nurses, pharmacists, and other medical personnel from participating in abortions against their personal, private convictions.

He has elevated science above God by appealing to science rather than to morality in deciding to sacrifice the lives of future generations of unborn children for the false promise of “cures” for the present generation.

His economic policy, which has been touted as a ‘stimulus,’ puts an unfair burden on future generations as they assume the responsibility for repaying the debt he is amassing, and unfairly takes the income from those who have worked hard to earn it and gives it, in some cases, to the slothful, a vice the word of God clearly says should not be rewarded.

His planned closure of the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay places the security of every American in jeopardy, as does his announced plans to negotiate with terrorist actors like Hamas and terror-sponsoring states like Iran.

His call for government-run day care for children as young as two years old removes children from the care and nurture of their parents and turns them over to the state, undermining parental authority, which is given by God.

We could go on (we haven’t even touched on Obama’s plans to destroy the institution of marriage and the family through his legitimizing homosexual practice, the lobbyists he has appointed to his administration after promising not to do so, the corruption of some of his cabinet members who knowingly evaded paying their taxes, and on and on).

Based on the policy positions alone, there is solid evidence that Barack Obama has made himself an enemy of God and the enemy of God’s people. God enjoins us to pray for our enemies, therefore we should pray for Barack Obama—but not that his plans succeed, but rather that they fail.

There is scriptural precedent for praying that the ungodly plans of God’s appointed leader fail. David repeatedly prayed that King Saul’s plans against him would fail. 

Because President Obama has so clearly revealed an agenda that de-values the cause of life and has provided abundant evidence that his policies do not serve the cause of righteousness, I am encouraging all God-fearing followers of Jesus Christ to begin praying that God in his sovereign grace would hinder him and the agenda he has sought to advance with such breathtaking speed.

Will you join me?

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About The Author

Paul Edwards is the host of The Paul Edward Program and a pastor. His program is heard daily on WLQV in Detroit and on godandculture.com

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Prayer for Obama
As disgusted as I was with the election of Mr. Obama, the first thing I did was get down on my knees and pray for him, for his wife and his two beautiful girls. I also prayed for wisdom and God's leading Obama's heart to follow God's ways, not the ways of sinful man.

But, as we have seen, and as Mr. Edwards so clearly states, Mr. Obama has chosen to follow his own heart, and not te heart of God. How sad for him, and how disastrous for us as a nation...all beleivers of all stripes need to "pray continually" (1Thes 5:17) that Mr. Obama will have a change of heart, and try to lead in a more Godly way.

Remember
Obama sees himself as the great talker. The master of the art of the deal. The great compromiser who can verbally untie any knot. But let us remember that when good compromises with evil, evil wins.

PRAY FOR THE CONGRESS ALSO
WE MUST PRAY THAT THEY OPEN THEIR EYES AND HEARTS. OUR COUNTRY DEPENDS ON IT, IT MAY DIVIDE, OR IT WILL DISSOLVE INTO MEXICO NORTH.

God forgive me
For not praying for this sooner. While we pray, we must also act. Don't be afraid to voice your opinion. Get out and vote against this evil. We have to not only pray, but hold our public "servants" accountable for their actions.

Great idea
I will pray with you. Very nice piece.

You Pray For HIm, Paul.
I will pray that we have what it takes to withstand what he and his masters have in store for us. We will need help from above to undo the damage done down here. I would only pray for a change of heart of our leaders.

I will pray that I can make others understand that we cannot depend on our leaders to do what is right. They only do what it takes to attain power and control over us. Then we will be at their mercy. Power is their god.

Pray for him? I don't think so.

Is this guy stupid?
How does government subsidized day care take away parental authority? It means parents who choose to use day care, will be able to do so at a reduced cost. This guy is really reaching.

Pray For His Salvation
The most important thing we need to pray for Barack Obama is that he has a Damascus road experience with the Lord Jesus himself just like the apostle Paul and so many others throughout the history of the Christian church. Then we can pray that whatever policies he and an ungodly congress would institute to the detriment of the United States fail.

Kimberly Daniels published an excellent prayer for Barack Obama that can be used as a model, as the Holy Spirit leads, for each one of us.

"Father, we ask You to reveal Your Son Jesus to our new president as the only way to God. We ask You to cause him to have a Saul-to-Paul experience. Release the pricks and goads upon his heart at an accelerated pace so that his heart will turn to the righteousness of Jesus Christ. Deliver him and let him experience a genuine new birth in his spirit. God, deal with our president about the innocent bloodshed of the unborn and the sanctity of marriage."

"Open doors for true prophets to speak to Obama in the White House. We bind the ministry of psychics, the teaching of black liberation theology, and every New Age and secular humanist doctrine away from the White House."

http://www.charismamag.com/index.php/prophetic-insight/1825 0-a-prayer-for-barack-obama

Idiot Article
"His planned closure of the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay places the security of every American in jeopardy, as does his announced plans to negotiate with terrorist actors like Hamas and terror-sponsoring states like Iran."

Does this guy really beleive this crap he's writing?, or, is it that he just likes to see his words in print?

Somewhere I read the rules and regulations that were agreed upon at the Geneva Convention. During that meeting,the parties involved clearly agreed that torture would not be allowed for those captured by their enimies during war time.
GITMO was not only a detriment to the American people but, it gave other countries the idealogy that torture was an all right thing to do in order to gather information from captured soldiers.
It is evident this guy has never served in the military. If he had, he would know that the mass majority of military personel agreed with the closure of GITMO.
As far as Obama talking to Hamas, I would rather Obama talk to our enimies than just do nothing.
Just doing nothing is what we have already done and what did that get us? A war that has lasted almost 7 years. Go Figure

This is just one man's opinion

Excellent Article
I totally agree. But Obama does make it really hard to though.

Dray, it is obvious you have never served in the Military. Or studied the Geneva Conventions.

We have not tortured anyone. Water boarding is not torture. And the Geneva conventions do not protect terrorists from anything. And in my eight years in the Marine Corps, I never met anyone who had a problem with Gitmo, other than the fact that those terrorists are still alive.

William OH
Well said, and I believe God is putting that Damascus Road prayer in a lot of hearts, that was my husbands first thought and is how we pray for him. And yes it's not easy, right now he is our enemy but God has commanded that we pray for our enemies, and it's not how we feel but the obedience of our hearts, even if at first it's through gritted teeth. And yes I do pray that his policies will fail; and I also pray that if he, like Pharoah hardens his heart then that God remove him and all others who have rebelled and are enemies of the Cross and our Country be removed and more worthy men and women take their place.
and her last paragraph of her prayer should include Congress after the opening prayer that
occurred for the first time in our history to
gods not THE GOD ALMIGHTY on July 12, 2007 at Harry Reid's invitation.

Tea Party
You are right, this isn't easy.

But, I would say those who are the hardest to pray for probably need it the most.

I'll Pray
Obama’s decision to issue an executive order to close Guantanamo Bay by the end of next year was a political decision, and not one based on security or the so-called torture/treatment of the prisoners. Obama is appeasing the hardcore left, who will be satisfied with this decision.

I do not believe he will close Gitmo. We have a war going on and he is leaving all options available to him, the same options as President Bush. Therefore, at the end of the day, it is a win- win for him politically. He tells his liberal supporters he is closing Gitmo, yet he still is leaving all options available to him.

As one poster wrote the majority of the military wanted the closing of Gitmo? I am not aware of the majority of the military wanting the closure of Gitmo, if that was the case, the military would have closed it a long time ago had they felt in wasn’t of any use to them.

However, the mainstream media’s negative reporting, and I might add treasonous, they have, along with many liberal congressional representatives and let us not leave out the Hollywood liberals; they all have managed to leave a very damaging image of the US worldwide.

I will join this journalist’s call to prayer and I will pray that Obama will be able to keep us safe as Bush did during his years in office.

I pray that Obama will stand up to the terrorists, take the fight to them, and not forsake our troops on the battlefield. Obama just wants to debate these dictators to death, or have fireside chats. He needs to heed the words of Ronald Reagan….Peace Through Strength.

In the end, if and when Gitmo does close, we can be rest assured Murtha wants them in his backyard.

Odd
No one calling use right wing nut jobs or stupid or irrational or anything like that for praying for the president.

Very Odd.

Figured there would be someone by now.

Why do the people plot a vain thing?

Welcome back Mr. Edwards. We have missed your perspective. Your article reminds me of the question in Psalm 2. ‘Why do the nations rage, and the people plot a vain thing?’ The answer is that ‘we will not have this Man reign over us’ [Luke 19:14].

All you say of Obama is true. He has made himself an enemy of the cross while professing to be a man of faith. But how do we deal with the fact that the American people elected him and his ilk to power? We who had a birthright of liberty have sold it for a mess of pottage. We have become the heathen nation that rages against the Almighty and His Anointed.

Intolerance of Christianity is increasingly seen in public policy, because the progressives see us as the suppressors of human rights. Reputations and businesses of anyone who supported California’s Proposition 8 are being sought after with malicious intent. Western society is failing from inward corruption, and those who are supposed to be salt and light are seen as the enemies.

A healthy, thriving church is a blessing to any nation, but a nation in love with itself and at war with God does not deserve the blessing of a sound church. What we are seeing today with the perversion of marriage and the exaltation of deviancy is not what will bring the wrath of God; it is the wrath of God. [James White]

[To be continued on the blog]

Pray for Ivan
While you are at it, and people like him.

My favorite line.
"wretched, dishonest cur" little over dramatic, no?

God Uses Us
God "used" many: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob/Israel...even Pontius Pilate. Saul was zealously devoted to his beliefs and role as a Pharisee and probably would have stoned Jesus if He was in Damascus. But, God knocked Paul off a horse and blinded him before accepting God's will that Paul be a great Apostle to the gentiles.

I'm praying that God "uses" one of the Obamas, especially the President, to inspire our nation to return to the principles and values the Founding Fathers regarded so highly when forming our Republic as One Nation under God.

Ivan
People like you are those filled with hate and have nothing to do but curse and rant. You talk about rationality and reason and common sense, yet you somehow think that everyone who is rich either magically got so or screwed others over to get it. That would mean that Obama, Biden, Kerry, Gore, Clinton, the Kennedys, etc also fall into that catagory as well.

Buy the way, you might want to check over your own post real quickly before you go commenting on other people's grammer.

How Dramatic
"Barack Obama has made himself an enemy of God and the enemy of God’s people..."

Shouldn't you be out on a ledge somewhere? O for the love of peace! How much drama. This is ridiculous. I'm embarrassed. I mean come on. How much more petty can we get?

Dave
Well, he is the most radical infanticidal President yet, so, I would say Mr. Edwards was on the mark.

I didn't know pointing out the murder of innocent children was petty.

Amen
In the closing days of World War II, the Adenauer family of Cologne, Germany, used to close the blinds, check the premises for Gestapo types, and pray for defeat. That was the only way their country could be delivered from a monstrous evil.

Praying for Obama to fail is in the same
vein. Circumstances are not (yet) as dire as those faced by the Adenauers, and I pray they will not get that way. If that means Brack Obama has to fall flat on his face, the prospect does not disturb me.

Thank you, Paul Edwards for clarifying this matter.


Me too!
I'm praying for the same, Mr. Edwards!

I Pray
I pray I wake up tomorrow and see the country that I grew up knowing and loving. I pray that my son sees the same. I pray I get the chance to teach him all of the things that I love and learned about this country when I was young. I pray that the rouge nations do not devolope a weapon that could wipe all of this out while I sleep during the night. I pray that I will not have to decide if my neighbor is my enemy. I pray that this country and the world can survive the current crisis we face.
I pray....

"Ivan Kills Boris's Goat...
Story at Eleven!"

You have your Messiah Ivan. The one who proclaimed he would "Change the World". And instead of Bliss, this Ivan-child beats his fists on Mommy because she hasn't bought him the latest toy.

Pathetic Child.

Pray For Ivan
With a good dose of Divine Intervention,
Ivan Ivanovitch might stop being "nyee kultornee". And that would be a miracle to behold.

Amen
and amen

Yeah.. I'll pray for
him. The same way his Pastor cursed America!

Prayer!
I have been praying this since his first act of saying one thing and doing another. He is the worst hypocrite we have ever had as president. I will continue praying. Let's all pray the truth of who this man is will be brought into the light.

For his conversion
I have been praying that St. Michael will go to war against the satanic forces that surround Obama and that he will hound them back to Hell from whence they came to keep an eye on their investment. I pray that Obama will have a Damascus Road conversion, and that he will renounce the devil, his pomps and vanities, his empty promises and that agreement he made with Satan on the mountaintop in exchange, he thought, for the rulership of the world.

And I have been praying and continue to pray that Obama will realize that he cannot load a huge debt on a future generation that he is busy directing be slaughtered...and that his proposal that even advocates the murder of his own grandchildren, should they be conceived out of wedlock, will fill him with the horror Oedipus felt that caused him to put out his own eyes.

These crimes and sins he is committing whether he is directing others to do or whether he does them himself are mortal sins and one day he will be called to account for them. This is what I pray for.

SALVADOR "THE SAVIOR" ALLENDE & OBAMA
Salvador (the savior) Allende, like messiah Obama is doing now, rushed his revolutionary program to socialize Chile's economy trying to do too much too fast: nationalizing the banking and copper industries, getting control of the healthcare and educational systems and redistributing income and property to Chile's poor on a massive scale. Obama is very much an echo of the hasty, rash, precipitous Marxist Allende. Allende exacerbated an already divided and polarized country and his programs made a shambles of Chile's economy causing soaring inflation, deficits and negative GDP growth. There is no better analogy to the socialist Barack Obama than the mad, impatient, ruthless progressive Salvador Allende.

Click my name and read the rest of the piece: The Man with the Middle Name Hussein, or Barack Hussein Allende

Obama
In lieu of what you have mentioned, it seems that we need to remember that Obama has by birth and formative years been indoctrinated by the Muslim teachings and law. He sees the world from a different lens than the average American who grew up with the Godly principles of the Christian faith. We are a sum total of all our experiences in life, and his were mixed with two religions and philosophies, so why are we surprised at his actions now? We pray that our nation will stand as we have for these two hundred years, under God, and with freedom for all!

Apollo Repeats
Couldnt we have a SPAM button for those like Apollo who cut and paste their same rant on every single thread, whether or not it applies?

OBAMA IS AN AGENT OF PROVIDENCE
for the destruction of the secular progressive left. I will be exploring this subject in my upcoming work: The Rise and Fall of Barack Obama: the End of New Deal Liberalism and the Counter-Culture Sixties and the Resurgence of the Reagan Republican Right

I will pray
I will pray that all men come to see how their pride and fear is exposed through their own self-righteousness. I will pray for you, the vast majority of writers and readers at townhall.com, and all the regressive progressives out likewise pollute politics with their anger at someone and something, while failing to see themselves.

To love one man and hate another (Hamas, etc) means you are divided, and lost.

Fear and pride explain 99% of everything. 1% is the imbalanced math.

http://www.behappyandfree.com

obama and evil

obama is Nicolae Carpathia is many ways. He submits to those who have no moral base and his behind the scene actions show such.
Does obama have any moral standards ???

Prayer, the key!
One of the commenters, said to pray for Obama's salvation. I agree! But for his socialistic ideas and unconstitutional executive orders I will pray for defeat. and to another comment -that Obama will have a change of heart --- my dear fellow American that's what it's going to take to change his view. His heart needs to change and likewise the hearts of Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Barney Frank and well almost the entire Congress.
America as a whole, needs a change of heart and that is back toward God. Nationally we are not a Christian nation anymore, individually there are many Christians, but unfortunately, there are not enough in the latter category who are willing to stand up and say so.
Obamas' pastor made a derogatoy statement when he said, "May God D--- America" I certainly don't want that, but maybe because we have sinned, it just possibly could be that God has--- and is doing it through the likes of Obama and the liberal crowd.

CHANGE OF HEART IS COMING
after a period of national tribulation caused by the ruinous policies of the Three Blind Mice: Obama, Pelosi and Reid God's instruments for awakening America from national forgetfulness. I will be covering this subject and much more in The Rise and Fall of Barack Obama.

Pray for Obama
I just pray that the guy gets his head on straight-and soon.

OBAMA
The president claims to be a Christian. Pray that he allows God the position of Master in his life.

Pray For Failure
Pray not only that Obama fails; but that his Life in Office is shorter than that of JFK whom the Marxist Democrats and Ted and Caroline Kennedy portray him to be a JFK protege.

The Mafia did not tolerate JFK and RFK's trysts with Marilyn Monroe.

Americans should not tolerate the trysts Obama is having with your 401K and Retirement Money, and your Children's and Grandchildrens Money.

I am sure he and all Marxists and Anarchists are laughing at the lack of response to the systematic Robbery and the destruction of the United States of America by those praying that Obama succeeds.


Obama - Christian????
Only GOD knows Obama's heart, but actions speak volumes. Just think, if Christians had voted their Christian beliefs, we would have a different President. The DEVIL is extremely happy with every Christian that voted for Obama. Obama indicated his thought process and so-called beliefs by staying 20 years in a church building (definitely not a place of Christian worship)listening to the spewings of Wright (REV for hate and bigotery). Obama can get away with offending and making fools of so-called Christians, but Obama and the Christians who voted for the continued murder of the unborn and the promotion of the homosexual agenda will be dealt with by our GOD. Judgement is coming!!!

To: AnnRKey
I have a question.
Does anyone have any evidence that prayer actually works?

Try reading a Bible, if you have one, and answer your own question.

Ivan
Thanks for proving my point.

How I'm Praying for the President
I amn pryaing that Obama will have an experience like Saul of Tarsus and many prominent Muslims are having. That is that God Himself appears to him (Obama) and shows him who He Is. Once Obama really knows what it means to be a Christian and is led by the Holy Spirit, he will then be qualified to be President.

Closing Gitmo violates God's law?
If he had lived in 30 AD, Edwards would have put Jesus in Gitmo, especially since Jesus preached dangerous anti-militaristic doctrines that the Empire of day didn't like so much:

"Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy...

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God."

You can either support Jesus, or you can support a militaristic America. You can't do both!

Divine Mercy 3 o'clock Prayer
You died, Jesus, but the source of life flowed out for souls and the ocean of mercy opened up for the whole world.
O fountain of life, immeasurable Divine Mercy, cover the whole world and empty Yourself out upon us.
O blood and water, which flowed out from the heart of Jesus as a fountain of mercy for us, I trust in you.
Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us and the whole world. Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us and the whole world. Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us and the whole world. Amen.
Jesus, King of Mercy, I trust in you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FUrkNEniUc


PRAYING
yes, I,m praying for the president, I'm praying for him to drop dead before the damage he does to the Constitution and this great country becomes irreversible.

How I'm Praying for the President
A well written commentary that is Biblically sound, and is helpful to all praying Christians. Thank you, Paul Edwards, for your wisdom and insight.

Ivan
Why do you hate believers so much? Why are you so arrogant? I thought liberals were tolerant. I have flagged every one of your posts as offensive.

Oh and M, you need to re-read the bible.

Whosebone
That isn't how Christians do things. If you want to act so full of hate, go hang out with Ivan or move to Iran. We pray he sees the light and realises the error of his ways, just as we do with Pelosi, Reid, Biden, Frank, etc.

OBAMA, JESUS AND THE WILL OF GOD
Barack Obama is a Christian and a believer in Jesus. In fact, his success in politics is rooted in the Trinity United Church (see my "Obama Mahara Ji: the Secret of Obama's Hypnotic Powers").

But the Jesus of Obama's religious imagination is the socialist savior of Liberation Theology not the spiritual savior of faith whose "kingdom
is not of this world." In restructuring and
socializing our economy Obama believes with the conviction of absolute faith that he is doing the work and will of God.


Another point
"And since he admits to praying that the president fails -- meaning that the country won't get out of the current mess it's in and millions of people will lose their jobs and children will go hungry -- Edwards is a traitor and an enemy of America. A religio-terrorist. We should all pray that the Lord takes him home soon to discuss this with him."

Religio-terrorist? You mean like the creatures at Gitmo who will kill if let go? And he isn't praying for the nation to fail, he is praying, like myself, that he fails in instituting policies that will lead to further destruction of our nation.

"We should all pray that the Lord takes him home soon to discuss this with him" You jumped on M for her comments about Obama and JFK, but you make a comment like that. You insult beleivers, then invoke the Lords name. You are nothing more than an intolerant liberal hippocrate. And again, if you want to insult others, you had better make sure your own postings are perfect, which they aren't. Is my spelling perfect, no, but I am not insulting others or calling them illiterate.

AnnRKey
My second time in Iraq, my church had given me enough Psalm 91 bandanas to give to my whole platoon. While sweeping along the Euphraties, we were ambushed. We did no suffer a single casualty.

My third time, my church supplied me with enough for the whole company. My company was the only company in the batallion that suffered no losses or serious injuries.

baradumb
kiss my backside, this illegal alien marxist clown if left unattended will destroy whatever GOD-GIVEN rights I have. I will continue to pray for his early demise, for the good of this country and for the good of this planet. Go peddle your sanctimonious drivel someplace else.

Ahab III
Should we pray for Ahab? Willy Jeff was #2 (that is, Ahab #2) and his wife was...well, she still is.

This Ahab's wife isn't the innocent sweetie being flung about as a fashion model. No, she's a hard-core pro-abortionist - probably the incentive for President Infanticide to push his post-birth baby-killing agenda.

I pray that God deals with them in His own way, and that we repent and stop deserving such leaders. Did you hear that? Pray that we stop deserving what we're getting?

If you hunger for righteousness, look for it sincerely - but don't blame the results on your leaders if you don't square up so well yourself.

Whosebone
Read the bible son. Our nation is strong. We can survive four years of him. And since our rights are God Given, as you said, he can't destroy them. If it does come down to him actually destroying the constitution, there will be a revolt, and I will be a part of it, and most of the Military will be as well.

But until that time, we pray for him to come to his senses, not an early grave. We pray the SCOTUS does the right thing, and reveal if he truely is legally POTUS or not. We pray that if he and his cronies have committed crimes (and I beleive they have) that the face legal justice. If it comes to the point that we have to revolt, then I pray for a swift end to the conflict.

You, whosebone, give more ammo to the likes of Ivan and his ilk.

Ivan
Son, I have not been brainwashed by anyone. I spent a few years rejecting any kind of organized religion. It was my own life experiances that brought me to God, not anything being forced on me. I love how you imediately jump to a conclusion as to why I beleive. I don't know why you don't, and I am not going to try to even guess. I simply pray you have a revealing moment or moments like I did. Well, maybe not EXACTLY like I did, mine were in the midst of combat and life threatening situations, I don't wish those situations on you.

I love this line, "You are confusing self-confidence with arrogance. That's because you can't deal with a self-confident person who doesn't believe exactly as you do. And that's because you are uncertain about what you actually believe, and therefore panic at the possibility of doubt." Project much?

And this self contradicting line, "I'm extremely tolerant, in obvious contrast to you crazed rightoids, who post poison, praying that the president of the United States dies and that the country sinks into chaos and despair."

You prayed for the columnist's death. You claim to be tolerant, but then turn around and insult others with different views as you.

baradump
just where in the hell do you get this notion that this egotistic marxist cant destroy my rights? Im sure many were praying for adolph hitler to "come to his senses" and stop gassing jews, gypsies and the weak but it took ammunition and the blood of patriots to put an end to him and his agenda. Tell ya what "son", you keep praying for this muslim clown to mend his ways and ill keep praying he drops dead before he destroys this countries freedoms with his UN mandates, law of the sea treaties, and world court rule, then we will have it covered from both ends.

prewashed
just wondering baradude, if one is brainwashed, would they realize it?

Thank you Paul Edwards,
that was great!
Yes, prayer does work. but not always in the way we want it to. We ultimately pray for God's will. Maybe it is those who do not believe in God or prayer that are brainwashed?
Some of the greatest scientists that ever lived were Christians and our greatest colleges were founded by Christians and they all prayed.Look it up. Mocking God also,will definitely get you an answer.
You can support Jesus and a militaristic America. In the Bible, many times, God condones war, and Jesus is son of God/God. "There is a time for war, there is a time for Peace." Jesus says,"I will come back with a Sword in my mouth." He says families will turn against/hate each other for His sake.
I will pray for our pres. that he "see's the lite,"literally, as Saul. I will pray 4 Ivan( he is one unhappy, angry, hate-fulled, liberal,isn't he?) and Bill Maher(they may be bro's.
It is perfectly ok to pray 4 our pres. policies to fail if we fear they may hurt our people/ country. In the Bible, David,a man after God's own heart, prayed 4 his leader to fail. The leader failed. God uses us for his purpose.

Obama says he's a Christian, but saying it does not make it so. He says he's not sure if Jesus is the only way. Jesus said,"I am the way, the truth and the life, and the only way to the father is thru me." He didn't stutter or read a teleprompter.
The fake moral outrage coming from people that "prayed" for the failure of pres. Bush is a amazing, isn't it? I used to be liberal.It ain't all it's cracked up to be.the left wing of this party is full of hate. they can't debate, they just call you names.I also love all the ridicule that happens when you talk about God or prayer. So much for the party of compassion/tolerance. That party is dead.




Whosebone
You obviously missed what I am saying. If it comes to that, we will fight him. Americans are not European cattle. Right now, I am praying just as Mr. Edwards is. As of now, it hasn't gotten to the point of Hitler, and if it looks like it will, Americans will revolt, I have no doubt. I actually believe that our Military will stop him before it comes to that.

People like you and M weaken our possition against people like Ivan. He is just going to go back to the daily Kos and talk about how all the neocons are praying for Obama to die. You are playing into their hands. We have to be smarter than them. They have all the advantages right now, control of the Congress, White House, soon the SCOTUS and of course, the Media. We can't be giving them any more ammo.

And on the question of brainwashing, read my post to Ivan.

Linda
Spot on. The problem with liberals is the idea that the President IS America. He only holds the office for four years at a time to a max of two times. Even if he was President for life, America still would outlive him.

The whole purpose of what our founding fathers envisioned was what the people of the country decided their own individual fate, not a king or government or President. That is why the constitution's whole set up is to limit government. People are putting to much faith in one man. There is only one man I put absolute faith in, and that isn't Obama.

I Pray for him to RESIGN
The only way this enslaver of America can possibly help us is to resign. But people trying to enslave there fellow men rarely do that. Obama chars nothing for America or Americans. His only goal is to herd us into a group of Brainless Soulless Robots without choice or reward. One neck ready for one leash. Just another Stalin, Hitler, Mao.


Thanks Ivan
Thank you again for proving my point.

And it was not panic or fear. I have never felt either in combat. I knew every time that the situation was in God's hands. I was always calm and collected.

Behold everyone. Liberal hippocracy and intolorance. Personal attacks and insults are all he can do.

And go ahead and flag my posts as offensive. I highly doubt the moderators will see them as such. Yours on the other hand, so filled with vitriol and personal attacks, that will be another story. By the way, I have also flagged the likes of M and Whosebone as well.

You Bet
I'll join you, Paul, and have already. Nightly, I pray for God to send President Obama wise counsel and that he will heed that counsel and his heart will be changed.

I have also been wondering if he could be doing all of this with an agenda or purpose, to destroy our way of life and bring the country to its knees. It's all too weird. How can any one person do so many evil things all at once, and ignore what does need to be done? Why does he seem to be Hell-bent to destroy all safeguards against atrocities such as terrorism, abortion, militant homosexuality?

Now we find out terrorists won't be referred to as "enemy combatants". Oh what, we're supposed to refer to them as "naughty boys"? Slap their little hands, do we?

He's an intelligent man but appears to be devoid of any spiritual discernment whatsoever. I pray that those evangelical pastors who were so foolish as to support and vote for him will now pray for him and give him some Godly advice. Before he takes us all down the tube.



AnnRKey-YES, I have lots of evidence
Several years ago, my pastor, a fellow member I`ll call J and I visited J`s friend; she had asked for a visit. After we had talked awhile, the pastor asked J`s friend if there was anything he could ask God to do expressly for her to prove He is real. She said she would like to be able to just sit down and talk with her husband; "they had not talked in ages". The next day J`s friend called to tell her that her husband had come home from work, just a little while after we had left, and these were his exact words, "can we just sit down and talk, we haven`t talked in ages?" Want more? I have many more.

Note To Ivan #73
I'm sorry, Ivan, but it is you who are brainwashed.

If a person is in imminent danger and calls out to God, that person is "saved" as in trusting Christ as his savior. His eternal soul is no longer "lost". And many, if not most, times God answers their prayer of the moment and saves their life so that they can continue to live, tell others about Him, and grow stronger and wiser. Stories abound of miraculous occurrences for which there is no explanation, outside of the existence and the help of Almighty God.

But if God chooses to let that person's earthly life end, that's what ends. Their temporary, earthly life. Real life, for them, has just begun. God never fails. He can't. But He may not answer the way we think He should.

You'll never convince those of us who have experienced God that He does not exist. You may as well save your hateful rhetoric. You are wasting your time.

It is possible to know God. And I pray that some day you'll come to understand that.


Baradiel
Thank you for your service and I too can attest to Psalm 91 and God's protection. I pray that every night for my son and grandson and I know
that God protected my son from a direct hit from a mortar. We pray for all our military and that God's Warrior Angels surround them and protect them.

And AnnRKey, I've had personal incidents where I know my prayers were answered..I should have died 30 years ago in childbirth and it was prayer that brought me through an emergency that even surprised the Doctors. And there's a lady at my church who was diagnosed with Parkinsons and was slowly deteriorating. I saw her one Sunday with her face frozen from the disease, the next Sunday..she was well. The change, during Bible Study my pastor felt moved to lay hands on her and pray and she instantly stopped shaking. Her legs were shaking uncontrollably up til that point..that was 5 years ago and she's still glowing with health.

Ivan..don't knock it if you havent tried it.
I don't think you have the courage to ask God
to show you He's Alive.

Kenneth 9:24 post I agree, we are no different than ancient Isreal in our rebellion and we need another Great Awakening. Are you aware of
this movement? http://www.awakeningamerica.us
And also David Wilkerson has some very sobering
news about our immediate future. Peter Marshall Jr.'s site is another good one

Ivan #52
There is so much evidence that God answers prayer, I could not begin to list it here.

I'll give you just one.

I am alive. And if is was not for God, I would not be. I would have died in 1993.

And that-is a fact.

I can't imagine what it must be like to be so filled with hatred as you are. I will be praying for you.

Ivan
It sounds like Ivan needs a Road to Damascus moment as well. If I recall correctly, Saul was a real S.O.B. before his conversion.

Just a thought.

Jim

AnnRKey-YES, I have lots of evidence
Several years ago, my pastor, a fellow member I`ll call J and I visited J`s friend; she had asked for a visit. After we had talked awhile, the pastor asked J`s friend if there was anything he could ask God to do expressly for her to prove He is real. She said she would like to be able to just sit down and talk with her husband; "they had not talked in ages". The next day J`s friend called to tell her that her husband had come home from work, just a little while after we had left, and these were his exact words, "can we just sit down and talk, we haven`t talked in ages?" Want more? I have many more.

wise what the hell
oh pulleeze victoria, praying for this committed muslim marxist illegsl alien to receive "wise counsel" from a God he doesnt even acknowledge unless its while his mentor is screaming "God damm America" is a form of whistling past the cemetery. Born and raised a muslim, this empty suit said, to paraphrase, when the going gets tough, i will stand with islam.

No one seems to be understanding of the grave threat this adolph hitler clone poses to the future of this country and the freedoms we enjoy because of the blood shed by
countless millions in the on-going struggle between good and evil.

You feel free to pray that this clown somehow sees the light while hes signing executive orders to force us to pay for the worldwide murder of unborn innocents, you pray for him while he releases these animals from their cages in cuba to wreak more havoc on innocent Americans, you pray for his redemption. I will pray a true patriot finds the strength to do what is necessary to stop this tyrant the same way hitler was stopped, with overwhelming force.


As to ideological morons
Now, who do you think would author and state publicly his hatred and contempt for his fellow citizens?

Which libtard that posts here would author something so vile as this excerpt?:


We the people" have proven yourselves a stupid, stubborn, ignorant, arrogant
gang of thugs, thieves, murderers, torturers and self-righteous religious
fundamentalist hypocrites…And don't think for a minute that its all going to change
magically in 2009.

The "Great Experiment" has failed. You Americans have proven the fallacy of
Democracy; to wit: "We the people" are indeed just too stupid to govern
yourselves. I just can't think of any other explanation.


Koolmuse, stand up and take a bow! Indeed we have a winner in the best hatred of America class! Marx would be proud of you, and comrade Lenin would award you the order of the grand useful idiot.

Ivan the ideological hate monger
Ivan should quit posting once his Paxil wears off. I think this sums up Ivan nicely

On God and atheists and on elivers like ivan/koolmuse:


"If you don't believe something exists, why would you pour such rage and hatred into it? I don't believe in Santa Claus, but I have no agenda to go around and yell about how he's fake and mean and doesn't give all the kids toys, etc. Why? Because he's fake! I know that. The passion that these "atheists" bring in their conversation betrays the fact that they actually DO believe in God...they just hate Him"

So Ivan why do you hate God? Been a bad boy, and afraid God is watching?

Here is an explanation
Prayers may not be answered. But to dumb it down enough for the libtards here to understand,a simple explanation:


"A lot of folks spend a lot of time trying to "prove" that God does or does not exist - you cannot. God has been consistent in refusing to participate in our experiments. If there were "proof," there would be no need for faith, one of the central tenets of religion; which is interesting, because atheists, especially, seem to have faith aplenty in their belief"




As to ivan/koolmuse
Thank you both for so eloquently illustrating the biblical lesson for the day:

"Do not cast your pearls before swine, for they will turn and trample them, etc., and cast not holy things before dogs--




set the record for koolaidmuse
as typical, kool just ignores facts, i paraphrased obamas remarks, here is the quote ... I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.” Here he is referring to his muslim brothers, which was backed up by khadaffi, who referred to barak huessein obama as a "brother in islam"

what else did this fool kool refer to?.....oh yes,,,,"marxists are atheists" kool, marxism is a POLITICAL term, atheism is a religious term, you can be both.

Now, as far as my clone remark, I was obviously referring to the political ideology of the persons, not the color of their skin, but leave it to a liberal to inject race into every discussion.


My statement about the struggle between good and evil is countered by kools wish to exterminate all religious people.. ..I dont feel any need to comment on that. kools "tolerance" is clearly on display.

Ivan
Keep proving me right. Thanks alot.

As to calling me a "censorious fascist". Do you have any idea of what you are talking about? This is a privately run web site. The moderators of this site can remove whatever posts they want. If I advocated the Government censoring your posts, that would make me a facist. Try posting anything pro conservative or anti Obama on a site like the Daily Kos. You will be banned. Don't worry son, in the months to come, there will be plenty of facism from this administration. But, I wonder, to borrow one of your favorite words, will you be too brainwashed to realise it.

So I am not the best at spelling. That gives you good reason to insult me. Good for you. Again, keep proving my point that all you and your fellow liberals can do is throw out insults at people who have a different point of view than you.

And you have some nerve insulting my service to this country and my experiance in combat, especially if you haven't served, or will ever serve. I am not saying I am Rambo or anything of the like. I am saying that by placing my burdens in God's hands, I had nothing to fear.

we need Obama healthy and safe

I'm praying for Obama to be safe and healthy, for imagine what sort of left-wing programs would be enacted were anything to happen to him. It would make the Great Society, created by LBJ invoking the name of John F. Kennedy, look like an exercise in fiscal, social, and moral prudence.

We Should All Pray
Of course, we should all pray for every President, whatever his (or her) party.

Ivan der ho!
?? ??? ???? ??? ????????????? ???? ????????? ???????????? ?????? ?????!
?? ????????? ? ????????????????? ?????????. Premier ????? ????????? ???!

Prayers?
The only prayers I have is for this piece of EVIL to fail, not just his policies but him as well.
I pray for him to return to Chicago and his liberal, leftist, socialist friends in ruin and disgrace for the destruction that he and Pelosi, Reid and all the rest of the Demoncrats and the RINOs have done to this country.
and I pray for their failure as well.
Talking about "Change".
What a change it's been.
This Son of Evil has only been in office for 5 weeks and the Demoncrats have been in the majority since 2006 but it's sad the ruin that they have all committed.
I only pray that we recover.

God Gave us 'our' king - sorry!
I agree with all your analysis - except, that God will hinder Obama. Why? Christians who fully understood what Obama's abortion plans included decided to vote for him because 'he gave them hope' for their wallets. Christian leaders like T D jakes endorsed a man who favors civil unions and abortion, both contrary to biblical teaching.

God has started his judgement on america. When the prodigal son asked for his share and left home - God let him go with everything he was expected to inherit. It was not until, the son lost his mind and everything else that he had inherited that he remembered 'his father's house and his father's household servants were living under better conditions than he was'.

Cursed is a man who puts his trust on another man. When christians a.k.a values voters decided to overwhelmingly vote for Obama, placing their hope in him - God let them have their king. When they are done, they will have lost everything and then they will remember.......to

PUT THEIR HOPE IN GOD.

It's simple. God has begun judging americans and the judgement begins in the church first. It's going to be a long road from the pig sty back to restoration.

Pray for a remnant that will keep God's mercy alive. The land of Hope and Change was an abomination to the Lord. And, american christians will soon remember where their HOPE should lie.




Ivan der ho!
To bad the server couldn't handle Russian language. I had given you a nice compliment.

To translate, I said..Thank you my friend for setting these stupid American pigs straight!
You do honor to the Communist state. Premier Putin is proud of you!

Ivan - Jesus Love You:)
While we were yet sinners, he died for us so that we may have eternal life, having paid for our debt in calvary.

Ivan - there is no doubt or insult you can give to Christ that has not already been covered in his death and ressurection. He loves you and I pray his book of life never closes until you know him and the power of his ressurection.

About healing. I grew up in Africa where people had only one hope - calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ - and they were healed from AIDS, Poisonous snake bites, and other diseases that science can't heal. It is stated that a cobra's poison would kill in 5 minutes. Africans had less than that to call on Jesus and see him heal them. For us, there were not emergency services.

Just because your 'scientific study' had a hypothesis manufactured in the lab does not mean it's findings can be generalized. For that study to be valid, at the 99% level of confidence, the sample would have had to be stratified to include villagers where I grew up. Around there, we don't need scientific research because we know the guy who called the atom into existence.

When the scientists say 'matter can neither be create nor destroyed' God says 'let there be light....'. The scientist would have nothing to study if God did not give him or her some variables to develop a hypothesis. FYI - have scientists figured out if pluto is a planet or not yet? Never mind!

Goshawk - living in a pig sty - are you?
It's a wonder, you the russian, migrated to live among pigs. Our constitution that gives you the right to insult americans without being imprisoned is derived from this truth we hold to be self evident - all men are CREATED equal. Thank God for men who know that humans are created not evolved from apes. Otherwise, americans would be migrating to Russia to live among the _______ (fill in the blank).

Welcome to america and enjoy our GOD GIVEN freedoms.

Steve
Health, Safe and far away from the whitehouse. I think his kids and wife need him back because he is clearly losing his religion:)

I read Michelle's comments in Vogue (and intelligent women do read vogue) that her daughter says 'daddy's job is thorny'. And I realized, our policies are developed at the dinner table with 6 year olds saying how bad it is for the american president.

It's no wonder, rookie in chief is now saying 'we need to be more positive'. His kid heard him and believed him. Even he now gets it that it's not beneficial to be an alarmist in the whitehouse:)

HEALTHY, SAFE AND OUT OF THE WHITEHOUSE.

koolmuse - story for you
A guy built a ship that had not been experienced before. He said 'this ship is so safe that God himself could not sink it'.

The titanic hit the iceburg and you know the rest of the story.

It's one thing to doubt the existence of God, for God himself expresses the right for individuals to have 'free choice'. It is another thing to INSULT GOD. For God himself finds it unacceptable that you should insult him and let you continue in your arrogance without a response.

I wonder what God's response to your insults will be like, and what you will learn when God decides to respond to your insults.


To AnnRKey

who asked, "does anyone have evidence prayer works?" Yes, it is evidenced in a changed life when someone kneels at the Cross of Jesus Christ, who confesses they are a sinner in need of forgiveness because they have transgressed God’s perfect law, asks God for His cleansing power of forgiveness, and by faith accepts the atoning sacrifice of Christ’s shed blood as payment in full for their sin. Prayer answered that that loved one of mine, of a friend, or a neighbor, or a stranger has now been born again, has received a new heart and a new mind, and that the Holy Spirit, our wonderful counselor and helper, resides in him/her, enabling them to live their life In Christ, not by their own power but by His Spirit. That is answered prayer, prayer that results in healed minds and healed brokenness, healed families, and healed relationships. Yes, prayer really works because God is true to His Word. John 3:16.

Sandra
First, thanks for being a Patriot. But I feel that I owe you an explanation. My comment to Ivan was meant to be sarcastic. Pointing out how he and many other Liberals posting on TH. Are little more than traitors to our country as they seek to undermine our Free Republic.

In other words, if they are not in fact Communists they may as well be! As "Useful Idiots" they are doing a great job for them.

Praying for Obama
If as the Jewish and Christian Religions teach that Marriage is instituted by God, How is it possible that whatever actions the world takes that the institution can be destroyed. Do we honor our marriage commitments only so long as the world recognizes them or do we honor our commitments because it is the right thing to do before God.
In the New Testament Jesus commands us to keep our words and The Psalms (Psm 15) says to keep our word even to our own hurt.
As to the remainder of the article I agree

GWB
"I will join this journalist’s call to prayer and I will pray that Obama will be able to keep us safe as Bush did during his years in office."
George was on vacation during 9/11?

Just Look At Obama's Evil Face
Look at the picture of Obama smiling in the picture at the top of the page. Creepy smile, looks evil.

Test Subjects In America?
The American people must pray for the failure of any evil doers who conspire to enslave a great nation by controlling them by laws; computers; martial law and so forth. There are people who would trample on the U.S. constitution and our civil rights. There are those who believe in killing American babies by the millions each year; order people to stand in long lines at health clinics and wait until they decide if each citizen can or can't get an operation 12 months down the road; euganize the elderly and sick; use people as guinea pigs for government experiments as they do in communist China; manufacture the death mobiles like they do in China for those found guilty after court; stand in lines for a loaf of bread; have your doors knocked down in at any time; labor camps and so forth implemented. Well, anything is possible if the American people allow God to be kicked out of the country; prayer to be outlawed; pastors and churches to be threatened with jail for talking about the Bible; the Hate Crimes Bill used against everyone and anyone other than militant gays if others say or write anything they don't like; and on and on which has occurred throughout history because of power, control, greed, and evil deeds by evil doers who hide in the dark. Pray that the light shines on the darkness and reveals the truth and that justice prevails in the end and stand up for America and for God.

George W. and his hero Jesus
Did George W. ever speak and act with the full approval of his hero? Yes, the man that said that he prays and studies Scripture daily?

Besides, why is it that Ron Paul, is not now the Commander in Chief? Yes, he truly most certainly spoke and acted more like George W's hero!

I voted for Ron Paul, simply because he spoke within the true spirit that of the Founding Fathers.

As a legal immigrant of 53 years and having joined the Republican Party shortly after and yes and again in full compliance of the than still enforcerd laws.

I soon fell fully for what all the Founding Fathers were all about, and it is, that I chose to vote for Ron Paul.

Very sadly I find such ignorance amongst born Americans as to why God Almighty inspired young Godly man to give birth to this nation.

Yes, to forever do away with Imperialism! Yes, if Imperialism had ever done well, America would not now exist.

Question: Is America not now fully acting like an Empire? Its most inhumane and horrendouse war machinery is now circling the globe, plus its borders really do not truly exist anymore, which are the two ingredients that make up an Empire.

Does Prayer Work?
I believe prayer works. However, when we pray for a change of heart in our "enemy", we need to realize that those same changes must take place in our own hearts and we must be willing to do the hard work it will take for that to happen. We can't pray with pride that allows us to think we know best. We need to pray with humility, admitting our own shortcomings should we desire God to hear our prayers. Jesus, the Most Humble Servant of God gave us the Lord's Prayer. Listen to the words. Request the Holy Spirit come into your own life that breathing out the Spirit will touch all with whom you speak and will truly help those for whom you pray.

True, but a hard thing you ask
as we have all seen I would imagine. I am now into a book of Christian Martyrs-both old and new.It shames me that I can be so hard when these great people can pray for their enemies.

Yes his, Obama's, plans clearly oppose righteousness and we must oppose them but we are to pray that his heart be changed. I do not know this god Obama claims to love but I do pray that my God will touch his heart. If President Obama chooses otherwise let it be on him.

We are to pray for our oppressors but not with them--remember that. I believe President Bush deeply offended God when he prayed with the non-believers after 9/11.If would have been better had he stayed away.

Ivan-and his fools paradise
Not hardly. Lets start at that point.

An Ivanism of sorts:

"It's not "faith," it's confidence. And it's because all the available evidence is on our side. The absence of evidence is, after all, evidence of absence."

Ivan conveniently forgets:

There is NO proof or evidence God does not exist. Since there is no such proof of the non- existence of God, atheism is in fact a religion by definition. Believing in something without proof. Therefore Ivan believes in the religion of atheism.

Because Ivan says different does not make it so.Ivan is confused. Ivan posts about God here for a good reason. He needs to validate what he has no evidence to validate, by demeaning others who do believe.

Ivanism#2:

"Why is faith better than proof? Me? I'll take proof every time. Faith is for children and fools who *want* to believe in things that don't exist."

Exactly right. Describes atheism down to the last detail. A fools deception, based on a perceived pseudo intellectual superiority by children who have no evidence God does not exist themselves, but demean those who do have faith God exists. All without proof, evidence and despite evidence to the contrary.

Too bad Ivan. If you have been setting us straight for years all you have done is play the fool very well. I grant you that.

Ben Franklin poster children-Ivan/koolm
Ivan doodles that he has been setting us straight for years.

That is nothing more than narcisstic pontification, by a self proclaimed internet potenate.

A nice quote by Ben Franklin on Ivan and ilk to remember:

"We are all born ignorant, it takes a lot of work to remain stupid"

Ben Franklin

Ivan thank you for working so hard to illustrate Franklin's quote. Between you and koolmuse you are poster children for the quote.


A comparative baseline
Stephen King is a well known author. But a realist about his works. He describes himself thus:

"I am the literary equivalent of a Big Mac and fries.

When perusing the posts by the self proclaimed potentate of atheism Ivan, substitute the word "intellectual" for literary, and ;

Presto, you have a ready made description of the post contents of Ivan and koolmuse.

Baradiel
Where have you been living under a rock?

WASHINGTON -- The U.S. Army has sent a message out to its leaders reminding them that waterboarding is banned in the U.S. military.

It came a week after Congress approved a new attorney general who refused to describe waterboarding as torture.

The Army said the message is aimed at eliminating "any confusion that may have arisen" during the public discussion of the issue.
At his Senate confirmation hearings last month, Michael Mukasey repeatedly refused to say whether he considers the interrogation technique, which simulates drowning, to be a form of torture.

A coalition of military officials, doctors, and human rights groups has concluded that it is, in fact, torture.

Ivan knows nada, nothing
My, my my, the little Ivan pontificates in glee. Too bad he blew it on that Franklin quote, never was attributed to Franklin, but here is one anyone can reference:


Ben Franklin Quotes

Posted Saturday, March 16, 2002. — View & Post Comments »

"You desire to know something of my religion. It is the first time I have been questioned upon it. But I cannot take your curiosity amiss, and shall endeavour in a few words to gratify it. Here is my creed. I believe in one God, Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His providence. That He ought to be worshipped. That the most acceptable service we render Him is doing good to His other children. That the soul of man is immortal, and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental principles of all sound religion, and I regard them as you do in whatever sect I meet with them.
"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the World ever saw or is likely to see

Ben Franklin.


So Ivan, who owns who now? Care to apologize? Ot would you like to continue sticking your feet in your chops and chewing as hard as you can?

Slug? Look in the mirror! Too funny!

Baradiel
Come on now, it would make for a much better read if you did a little fact checking.

On Jan. 21, 1968, The Washington Post published a front-page photograph of a U.S. soldier supervising the questioning of a captured North Vietnamese soldier who is being held down as water was poured on his face while his nose and mouth were covered by a cloth. The picture, taken four days earlier near Da Nang, had a caption that said the technique induced "a flooding sense of suffocation and drowning, meant to make him talk."

The article said the practice was "fairly common" in part because "those who practice it say it combines the advantages of being unpleasant enough to make people talk while still not causing permanent injury."

The picture reportedly led to an Army investigation.

Twenty-one years earlier, in 1947, the United States charged a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for carrying out another form of waterboarding on a U.S. civilian. The subject was strapped on a stretcher that was tilted so that his feet were in the air and head near the floor, and small amounts of water were poured over his face, leaving him gasping for air until he agreed to talk.

"Asano was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor," Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) told his colleagues last Thursday during the debate on military commissions legislation. "We punished people with 15 years of hard labor when waterboarding was used against Americans in World War II," he said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/1 0/04/AR2006100402005.html


Piling on to Ivan
Normally it is not necessary to pile on to stupid, but in the case of Ivan, it is too hard to resist. More Ben Franklin on God:

God helps them that help themselves.
Benjamin Franklin
Source:Poor Richard's Almanack

Ya see Ivan, Franklin believed in God, he had disdain for organized religion, but that is understandable considering the time. Franklin did not like symbols and the stupidity o men who did not practice what they preached, but he was a believer in God.


"I cannot conceive otherwise than that He, the Infinite Father, expects or requires no worship or praise from us, but that He is even infinitely above it."

[Benjamin Franklin from "Articles of Belief and Acts of Religion", Nov. 20, 1728]"

Need more proof of Franklins faith in God?

Are you incapable of discerning between religion and faith?

Personally I dont think you have a clue what the difference is.

Really piling on to Ivan
Here is more for ya Ivan,

"I shall only add, respecting myself, that, having experienced the goodness of that Being in conducting me prosperously through a long life, I have no doubt of its continuance in the next, without the smallest conceit of meriting it... I confide that you will not expose me to criticism and censure by publishing any part of this communication to you. I have ever let others enjoy their religious sentiments, without reflecting on them for those that appeared to me unsupportable and even absurd. All sects here, and we have a great variety, have experienced my good will in assisting them with subscriptions for building their new places of worship; and, as I never opposed any of their doctrines, I hope to go out of the world in peace with them all."


[Benjamin Franklin, letter to Ezra Stiles, President of Yale, shortly before his death; from "Benjamin Franklin" by Carl Van Doren, the October, 1938 Viking Press edition pages 777-778 Also see Alice J. Hall, "Philosopher of Dissent: Benj. Franklin," National Geographic, Vol. 148, No. 1, July, 1975, p. 94]

See what happens when you post out of context, one off quotes that do not accurately reflect the thoughts of someone.

You become the laughingstock!!!!!.

Hey, Ivan, did you learn the difference between faith and religion yet? Too funny !

Ivan and koolmuse defined
It was all so easy to identify:

"Fool: also called jester, a comic entertainer whose madness or imbecility, real or pretended, made him a source of amusement.
Encyclopedia Brittanica, 1995 ed.

Thanks Ivan, keep up the posts. Entertainment like you cant be bought.


I pray
What is done in secret will be shouted from the housetops and the truth will be known.
Can we pray for our him when we don't even know if he is litgitimately our President?

Ivan demands, so I respond
Ivan huffs, puffs and scribbles this;

"You're very welcome. I've been toiling to set these stupid American pigs straight for decades".

Then Ivan pontificates on his role:

I'm gratified that the election of President Barack Hussein Obama -- possibly the most intelligent, liberal, good-hearted man to ever occupy the White House (with the exception of Jimmy Carter) -- indicates that I may, in some small way, have succeeded.

I am humbled by your praise. Thanks again.

Definition of potentate:

one who possesses great sway or influence, esp. one that dominates or leads a group
www21.brinkster.com/infoway02/dictionary.asp

A narcisstic, petty potentate. Ivan defines himself with his own words, and then demands to know where the definition came from.

Look in the mirror Ivan.

Donna
Perhaps this quote will help:

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
Vladimir Lenin

My thought is the saying that God has a plan and works in mysterious ways.

Yes! Ivan did it, I knew it!
He did not read my posts, nor does he understand the difference between faith, and religion, or for that matter a sect of religion.

What a Maroon!

Here it is once more, then tell mw who own what!

Ben Franklin Quotes

Posted Saturday, March 16, 2002. — View & Post Comments »

"You desire to know something of my religion. It is the first time I have been questioned upon it. But I cannot take your curiosity amiss, and shall endeavour in a few words to gratify it. Here is my creed. I believe in one God, Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His providence. That He ought to be worshipped. That the most acceptable service we render Him is doing good to His other children. That the soul of man is immortal, and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental principles of all sound religion, and I regard them as you do in whatever sect I meet with them.
"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the World ever saw or is likely to see

Ben Franklin.


This is on the same site for wx-Christians Ivan pulls his quotes from! Too funny!

What a maroon!

Ivan takes the bait
"narcisstic" was deliberately misspelled for you.

Ivan cannot refute, debate, or counter any legitimate point, so he deflects to something he can point out to try and diminish the strength of a post.

This is how he tries to help himself out. If you allow Ivan to point to something irrelevant, he jumps right on it.

Thanks Ivan!

You know what I meant little guy:

Narcissistic.

What a maroon, no answers, just attempts at cheap insuts.


Summation of an atheist (Ivan)
Atheist can’t see any evidence of God.
Evidence of God is presented.
All evidence of God is immediately rejected.
Atheist can’t see any evidence of God.

Ivan sees no evidence Jesus ever existed or that God exists. Perhaps that is due to a medical condition. Blindness due to rectal cranial inversion syndrome.

For your information Ivan someone owns you, and totally. God. Get used to it.

Pray and pray often
Ivan,
'Remember, man, you are dust and to dust you will return.' (Genesis 3:19)
Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on Ivan, Barack, us and the whole world.
That's how I pray for President Barack and your conversion to Jesus Christ.

Church Folks Have Been Bamboozled!
When you look back at the inauguration, none of this should be a surprise. Barack Obama chose Gene Robinson, an openly gay bishop, to do the invocation for the opening ceremonies on the Sunday prior to him taking office. On inauguration day, Rick Warren prayed in the name of Isa, who is the Muslim version of Jesus. That was an insult because Isa is not the Jesus of the Bible. In the Muslim view, Isa is a prophet and not the Son of the living God. And when you take into account the the U.S. News & World Report article that explaining how the Obama camp always vets prayers given at his public appearances, it's clear that he's not a true believer in Christ. Sad to say, but the church has been bamboozled!

Obama is anti-American
He sat in Rev. Wright's church for 20 years. If anyone doesn't think he doesn't subscribe to the smut that came out of that man's mouth, they are mistaken.

Obama's policies are meant to weaken America. Any pro-American needs to pray for America to survive in spite of this current president. The man has no honor.

Ivan is owned.
Ivan is all miffed that Diane dared to criticize the chosen one.

You have to wonder about the mindles ideological rhetoric of people like Ivan.

Ivan is so far out in left field he is past the warning track. Thankfully people like him are marginalized, even by his messiah Obama. Even Obama knows how far left whack jobs like Ivan turn the stomachs of normal people.

In order to read Ivans posts you need hip waders to make sure you dont step in the layers of manure. Geez, the guy is so creepy it makes you want to run in and take as shower just seeing his handle.

Some facts for this ignorant Ivan:


"The early church leaders were unanimous in holding that the Book of Matthew was written the same matthew who walked with Jesus. It was written approximately 50 A.D. (or ~25 after Jesus).

The Book of John is thought to have been written as early as 50 A.D. and not later thatn 70 A.D. (putting its writing 20-40 years after Jesus). John was a 1st cousin of Jesus as his mother was a sister of Mary.

The latest book (Revelation) was also written by John either during Nero's reign (54 A.D.-68 A.D.) or Domitian's reign (81 A.D.-96 A.D.). It is thought by early church leaders that it was written while John was imprisoned on Patmos. BTW, John was the only diciple who died of old age. All the others were put to death for their preaching"

God owns Ivan. Totally.

More for Ivan
ivan says there is no record of Jesus, Really?

(1) Dead sea Scrolls

(2) Eyewitness testimony:

townhall.com/columnists/Column2.aspx?UrlTitle=s...
"First off, we don't actually have eye witness accounts of Jesus of Nazareth."

We don't? Matthew, Mark, John, Peter.

Got that Ivan? Try googling them.

More for Ivan the radical left wing atheist:

"A lot of folks spend a lot of time trying to "prove" that God does or does not exist - you cannot. God has been consistent in refusing to participate in our experiments. If there were "proof," there would be no need for faith, one of the central tenets of religion; which is interesting, because atheists, especially, seem to have faith aplenty in their belief" (Dsouza)

Even Dawkins agrees with that.

This is what Ivan believes in:
Peter Singer is an atheist who writes books, teams with experts on ethics, and debates Christians in venues everywhere.

Has anyone ever read what is behind his beliefs? To read them is to know exactly who and what Ivan really is:

“Some of my conclusions have been found shocking, and not only in respect of animals. In Germany, my advocacy of active euthanasia for severely disabled newborn infants has generated heated controversy. I first discussed this in Practical Ethics; later, as co-author, with Helga Kuhse, in Should the Baby Live?, 1985; and most recently in Rethinking Life and Death, 1995. Perhaps it is only to be expected, though, that there should be heated opposition to an ethic that challenges the hitherto generally accepted ethical superiority of human beings, and the traditional view of the sanctity of human life.”

Peter Singer

Speaks volumes about wat Ivan believes.


Ivan owned once again
Poor Ivan, flames out and crashes.

The beliefs of Ivan are so far out there, that the most influential atheist leaders contradict what Ivan says. And I might add, the ones with brains.

Here is an excerpt:

Why Richard Dawkins is Wrong About Religion." Wilson is the author of several books including the acclaimed study Darwin's Cathedral in which he examines the evolutionary basis for religion.

Wilson begins, "Richard Dawkins and I share much in common. We are both biologists by training who have written widely about evolutionary theory." Moreover, "We are both atheists in our personal convictions

Comment :Add labels

Dinesh D'Souza : Desecrating Darwin's Cathedral - Townhall.com
townhall.com/columnists/DineshDSouza/2008/01/21...
Wilson examines Dawkins' central claim that religion is an obvious "delusion." On the contrary, Wilson writes, religion is in general more adaptive for human communities than atheism. "On average, religious believers are more prosocial than non-believers, feel better about themselves, use their time more constructively, and engage in long-term planning, rather than gratifying their impulsive desires...They report being more happy, active, sociable, involved and excited

And on Dawkins:

The issue now is simply whether a natural intelligence (ET) or a supernatural intelligence (God) created life. Dawkins can't bear the supernatural explanation and so he opts for ET.

Ivans opts for left wing ideology instead of truth.

Ivan and left wing lemmings.
Ivan is in a trap. He cant back up anything he states with facts, so he simply denies any facts that are posted. Ivan has nothing but his own version of a delusion wrapped up in ideology.

Some thoughts on left wing lemmings and the Ivan rants about religion:

townhall.com/columnists/FrankTurek/2009/03/0

"You believe that creation by a divine being is mythology. I believe the theory of evolution is creation mythology for atheists"

Sums up Ivan and his rants nicely, and this thought:

"After all, a skeptic of one set of beliefs is actually a true believer in another set of beliefs"

Bottom line Ivan has the arrogance of the ignorant, by demeaning believers without evidence. Disagree? No problem. But to post the hate and vitrol Ivan does, is to suggest intellectual vapidity.

Ivan without a doubt is the beneficiary of a public school education.

Founding fathers and prayer
Our founding fathers and prayers:

"The philosophy of Jesus is the most sublime and benevolent code of morals ever offered to man. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen." Thomas Jefferson.

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

President John Adams


The empty mind of Ivan
Cassius, later Longinus, was the name of the Roman centurion who pierced the side of Christ while on the cross.

Pretty solid evidence Christ existed, and was crucified, considering you have the testimony of the Roman centurion who finished the job.

Interesting that the wife of Pontius Pilate became a Christian afterwards, and tried to tell her husband not to crucify Jesus.

What type of small, immature mind would demand a birth certificate showing Jesus was born as Ivan has? Does he not know that there was no such thing as a "birth certificate" at the time of Christ?

I have seen left wing lemmings like Ivan persist in simply making up facts, but Ivan devolves to a new low.

Ivan is to pitied. Thankfully God owns Ivan, perhaps he will see the light in his time.


Some thoughts on our liberal Ivan
Ivan is a liberal atheist. Here are some examples of liberal atheist group think:


Modern Liberal thinking tainted

Modern Liberal thinking is 'Tainted' by Marxist precepts.

"The Nazis (National Socialist Party) are well remembered for murdering well over 11 million people in the implementation of their slogan, 'The public good before the private good,'

the Chinese Communists for murdering 62 million people in the implementation of theirs, 'Serve the people,'

and the Soviet Communists for murdering more than 60 million people in the implementation of Karl Marx's slogan, 'from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.'

Anyone who defends any of these, or any variation of them, on the grounds of their 'good intentions' is an immoral (NOT 'amoral') enabler of the ACTUAL (not just the proverbial) road to hell." -- Rick Gaber


Liberal vs. Conservative. Collectivism vs. individualism.

Every historical figure mentioned was an atheist, and a liberal.

There definitely is prayer needed today.

Those that are so blind
Ivan, if you are too ignorant to seek out the truth of what I say, that is a problem for you. I am not here to offer history lessons to the ignorant,that would be you.

What I have learned is that no matter what is presented, here is what happens;

Atheist can’t see any evidence of God.
Evidence of God is presented.
All evidence of God is immediately rejected.
Atheist can’t see any evidence of God.

This is all Ivan does. He calls religion a mythology, but can not offer a shred of factual evidence to back up what he says. His hatred of God is irrational, usually people like Ivan practice behaviors forbidden by the word of God, so they demean God instead of changing their behaviors.

Even Darwinists know better:

Dr. William Provine of Cornell University explained his and Darwin’s shared atheistic beliefs in this way: “Let me summarize my views on what modern evolutionary biology tells us loud and clear -- and these are basically Darwin’s views. There are no gods, no purposes, and no goal -- directed forces of any kind. There is no life after death. When I die, I am absolutely certain that I am going to be dead. That’s the end of me. There is no ultimate foundation for ethics, no ultimate meaning in life, and no free will for humans, either. What an unintelligible idea.”

Speaks directly to Ivan.

Ivan the fool
Ivan is a ember of the cult of the believers of nothing. Ivan says the world evolved form something. There is no God according to Ivan.

Ivan has no clue. The second law of thermodynamics states that matter devolves over time, not evolves.

Ivan ignores challenges because he has nothing. Ivan will ignore this because he has no answers. Watch how the little fella squirms and weasels:

Piling on to Ivan
Deny this with science answers:

"Firstly, the second law of thermodynamics makes clear the fact that the universe is running out of usable energy; and since what is running down must have been wound up, the universe couldn't be eternal. Secondly, if time stretches infinitely into the past, then we never would have arrived at this moment today. For to reach this moment today, we would have had to pass through an infinite series, which is impossible."

Refute it. Go ahead, by all means, and unlike all of your other reponses, answer it directly.




Realism for Ivan
Ivan probably has a calendar age that is three times that of his emotional age. Even though Ivan is the product of a public school education, with any luck at all he heard of Einstein somewhere along the way.

Ya see Ivan, Einstein was an atheist unti later in life. In fact there are a whole host of scientific ex-atheists. perhaps when you grow up little guy, you can add yourself to the list;

Start with Einstein;

"What is the meaning of human life, or, for that matter, of the life of any creature? To know an answer to this question means to be religious. You ask: Does it make any sense, then, to pose this question? I answer: The man who regards his own life and that of his fellow creatures as meaningless is not merely unhappy but hardly fit for life.”

Albert Einstein [ex-Atheist}, Mein Weltbilt, Amsterdam: Querido Verlag, 1934. From “Ideas and Opinions:

Literary atheists also grow up:


"All that we call human history--money, poverty, ambition, war, prostitution, classes, empires, slavery--[is] the long terrible story of man trying to find something other than God which will make him happy."

C.S. Lewis [ex-Atheist]

And another:

It has been said that when human beings stop believing in God they believe in nothing. The truth is much worse: they believe in anything.
Malcolm Muggeridge [Ex-Atheist]

See Ivan, you are owned by God. Get used to it. Learn to accept the truth of it.

Bzzt. Ivan loses again. No doubt he plans on continuing to embarass himself.


Can Ivan defend his messiah?
Here is another reason to offer prayers for Obama. The messiah whose sycophant Ivan the unearned, is collecting some rather bad news.

Denise from LA, thank you!

Senator Barack Obama received a $101,332 bonus from American International Group in the form of political contributions according to Opensecrets.org. The two biggest Congressional recipients of bonuses from the A.I.G. are - Senators Chris Dodd and Senator Barack Obama.

http://www.opensecrets.org/index.php

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/toprecips.php?id=D000000123

The A.I.G. Financial Products affiliate of A.I.G. gave out $136,928, the most of any AIG affiliate, in the 2008 cycle. I would note that A.I.G.’s financial products division is the unit that wrote trillions of dollars’ worth of credit-default swaps and “misjudged” the risk.

The Washington Post reports a “mob effect” at A.I.G financial products division:

A tidal wave of public outrage over bonus payments swamped American International Group yesterday. Hired guards stood watch outside the suburban Connecticut offices of AIG Financial Products, the division whose exotic derivatives brought the insurance giant to the brink of collapse last year. Inside, death threats and angry letters flooded e-mail inboxes. Irate callers lit up the phone lines. Senior managers submitted their resignations. Some employees didn’t show up at all.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/0 3/16/AR2009031602961.html

Ivan and his onanism
Did you read the rest if the Einstein stuff? The parts where he writes kids about religion? Of course not, it does not fit anything you want it to. Remember, ex-atheist is the key word.

Grow up Ivan, you are desperate.

He changed his mind. His quote speaks for itself, I don't, so you are calling Einstein a liar eh?

And you cant by choice refute the challenges I placed because you have no answers.

So you resort to personal attacks and juvenile bwaha, as if that means something to anyone other than yourself.

Without a doubt you are one poor intellectual excuse for a liberal.

Ivan the Baghdad Bob of TH
Lets see what Ivan writes:

Ivan: No such "testimony" exists, and the entire story can't be proven to be anything other than a fable.

Me: Not only does testimony exist, it comes from the Roman side, and multiple other sources, all testifying as well. Ivan refuses to accept any testimony, or admit there is evidence. That is the mark of a pathological liar.

Ivan: When you decide to provide credible evidence of what you claimed about that Centurion's "testimony" we can talk.

If you don't, you're clearly acknowledging that you're a liar, and we're done.

Me: Ivan is well aware of evidence everywhere. He can find multiple sources anywhere he chooses. Instead he uses an invalid form of arguement commonly used by propagandists to demand I show him proof. Since I have pointed Ivan to the proof, and it is so far voluminous that it can not be posted here, Ivan is simply a pathological liar in the extreme.

Here is what I posted about Ivan several times, it holds more true now:

Atheist can’t see any evidence of God.
Evidence of God is presented.
All evidence of God is immediately rejected.
Atheist can’t see any evidence of God.

Ivan can not stand it when the light is shined on him. Look how he flails, hisss, and spits at the truth.

So much for Ivans evidence he claims he has. I posted brief excerpts multiple times.

What did Ivan post? Nothing.




Game, set, match ? II
On Ivan on slandering Jefferson, the boy took the bait, again. How easy, ludicruously easy. And there is sooooo much more. Ivan pulled his quotes from an atheist revisionist site. Game, set, match? Yep. Ivan bit it, the big L for Ivan

Here ya Go Ivan, more Jefferson

ME 14:283 "One of the amendments to the Constitution... expressly declares that 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press,' thereby guarding in the same sentence and under the same words, the freedom of religion, of speech, and of the press; insomuch that whatever violates either throws down the sanctuary which covers the others." --Thomas Jefferson: Draft Kentucky Resolutions, 1798.

ME 17:382 "The rights [to religious freedom] are of the natural rights of mankind, and... if any act shall be... passed to repeal [an act granting those rights] or to narrow its operation, such act will be an infringement of natural right." --Thomas Jefferson: Statute for Religious Freedom, 1779. (*)

ME 2:303, Papers 2:546 The Private Nature of Religion "I have ever thought religion a concern purely between our God and our consciences, for which we were accountable to Him, and not to the priests." --Thomas Jefferson to Mrs. M. Harrison Smith, 1816.

ME 15:60 "From the dissensions among Sects themselves arise necessarily a right of choosing and necessity of deliberating to which we will conform. But if we choose for ourselves, we must allow others to choose also, and so reciprocally, this establishes religious liberty." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Religion, 1776. Papers 1:545
CommentAdd labels



Ivan wears the scarlet L (Loooser)
More Jefferson for Ivan, and there i sooo much more.

The constitutional freedom of religion [is] the most inalienable and sacred of all human rights." --Thomas Jefferson: Virginia Board of Visitors Minutes, 1819.

ME 19:416 "Among the most inestimable of our blessings, also, is that... of liberty to worship our Creator in the way we think most agreeable to His will; a liberty deemed in other countries incompatible with good government and yet proved by our experience to be its best support." --Thomas Jefferson: Reply to John Thomas et al., 1807.

ME 16:291 "In our early struggles for liberty, religious freedom could not fail to become a primary object." --Thomas Jefferson to Baltimore Baptists, 1808.

ME 16:317 "Religion, as well as reason, confirms the soundness of those principles on which our government has been founded and its rights asserted." --Thomas Jefferson to P. H. Wendover, 1815.

Now who slandered Jefferson? Game, set, match?

ONLY for Ivan ! Wow, how much easier can it get!

Ivan on history revision
Ivan and his band of merry atheists have set up history revision sites where quotes are taken out of context to mean something very different to support their views. Ivan tried that with Jefferson.

Always beware of what intellectual Looosers like Ivan write as a quote.

When you are intellectually lazy as Ivan is, relying on out of context quotes and atheist web sites for your information brands you as nothing more than a useful idiot.

This guy has nothing but bluster and personal attacks. The boy cannot stand it when his baloney is challenged.

Ivan and history revision
Ivan and his band of merry atheists have set up history revision sites where quotes are taken out of context to mean something very different to support their views. Ivan tried that with Jefferson.

Always beware of what intellectual Looosers like Ivan write as a quote.

When you are intellectually lazy as Ivan is, relying on out of context quotes and atheist web sites for your information brands you as nothing more than a useful idiot.

This guy has nothing but bluster and personal attacks. The boy cannot stand it when his baloney is challenged.

Are facts irrelevant?
He has elevated science above God by appealing to science rather than to morality in deciding to sacrifice the lives of future generations of unborn children for the false promise of “cures” for the present generation.

>>>
Recent research in Japan, the US and Canada is now enabling stem cells to be created from skin cells, essentially
reverting them to a 'blank slate' state. This takes any perceived morality qualms completely out of the debate.
--------------------------------------

His planned closure of the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay places the security of every American in jeopardy, as does his announced plans to negotiate with terrorist actors like Hamas and terror-sponsoring states like Iran.

>>>
Hyperbole much? The Bush administration has already admitted the innocence of many detainees. It's clear the situation at Guantamano is a blight on a nation and should be rectified. There need to be formal trials (even military if that's all they can get) to ascertain who should be incarcerated and who shouldn't. This is basic morality, not crazy pinko stuff.
----------------------

His call for government-run day care for children as young as two years old removes children from the care and nurture of their parents and turns them over to the state, undermining parental authority, which is given by God.

>>>
I don't believe this will be mandatory, will it?
------------------------------------

Are facts irrelevant? (2)

Obama’s plans to destroy the institution of marriage and the family through his legitimizing homosexual practice

>>>
Again, this a basic morality issue. You can't give some rights to some people and different ones to others and say that America is a land of equal opportunity with a straight face.
-------------------------

Based on the policy positions alone, there is solid evidence that Barack Obama has made himself an enemy of God and the enemy of God’s people. God enjoins us to pray for our enemies, therefore we should pray for Barack Obama—but not that his plans succeed, but rather that they fail.

There is scriptural precedent for praying that the ungodly plans of God’s appointed leader fail. David repeatedly prayed that King Saul’s plans against him would fail.

Because President Obama has so clearly revealed an agenda that de-values the cause of life and has provided abundant evidence that his policies do not serve the cause of righteousness, I am encouraging all God-fearing followers of Jesus Christ to begin praying that God in his sovereign grace would hinder him and the agenda he has sought to advance with such breathtaking speed.

Will you join me?
----------------------
>>>>
Separation of Church and State. Religious beliefs should not come into the running of a country that has purposely set out to avoid a theocracy.

I was quoting the article Ivan
You're correct that it is barking mad though.

Why don't we meet in private then Iain?
maybe a date and movie?

Ivan is so easy
This boy is way too easy. He claims his quotes are all authentic, and then sets himself up for the big fall. The second Jeffereson quote is in his post. What a laugher. Ivan must like the taste of fruitcake.

"Sir, no nation has ever yet existed or been governed without religion. Nor can be. The Christian religion is the best religion that has been given to man, and I as chief magistrate of this nation am bound to give it the sanction of my example."

This quote appeared in Historical Sketch of Washington Parish, Washington City, 1794-1857, by Reverend Ethan Allen (1796-1897).

And to the supposed quote Jefferson made that has no authenticity that Ivan and atheists have concocted:

"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition [Christianity] one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology."

As with many spurious Jefferson quotes, it is frequently seen on various Internet sites. Many sites do not cite a source, but a good number of those that do attribute this quote to a letter from TJ to a "Dr. Wood." As far as we know, TJ never wrote to an individual calling him/herself Dr. Wood. Another suspicious element is the statement that he does not find in Christianity "one redeeming feature." One presumes that Jefferson did, in fact, find some redeeming features in Christianity, otherwise he would not have taken the time to paste together his own versions of the Bible.

Ivan is owned, lock, stock and barrel once more.

Piling on to Ivan- Eaaasssy
Here is some more on Jefferson to ponder on religion. Part II in the lessons to Ivan. Or, how to expose fools:

Thomas Jefferson

“The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”
“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus." [Letter to Benjamin Rush April 21, 1803]

“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” [Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781]

“It [the Bible] is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."
[Jan 9, 1816 Letter to Charles Thomson]

No need to thank me Ivan, happy to show you the light little fella.

Gee, I never knew
Owning a far left atheist like Ivan could be so easy or so much fun. The boy is like some beta program, designed by Bill Ayers for an old Commodore, and so out of date and obsolete no one will buy it.

Here is an Ivanism, well articulated by another poster David S on another thread:

"We say that the Transcendent and Supreme is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God Who became incarnate in Jesus Christ. He and no one else.

You say that you yourself are the transcendent and supreme. You certainly say this, because you have already decided that there is no God. Thus, in order to know this, you have to be, in fact, yourself God.

But I simply see no valid reason to dethrone Him and enthrone you".

So Ivan where are all of those facts and evidence you say disproves Christianity, God, etc. ??? Still waiting Ivan.

Where are they Ivan? You have been challenged Ivan, c'mon little fella, spew them out for us!

Or are you afraid of being publicly humiliated again?

Poor Ivan
Started the debate, made all sorts of personal attacks on many of his posts, Ivan now finds himself discredited, humiliated, and his post content laughable.

And he slinks off, tail between legs, pouting.

For Ivan:

Atheist can’t see any evidence of God.
Evidence of God is presented.
All evidence of God is immediately rejected.
Atheist can’t see any evidence of God.

And the next line for Ivan:

Atheist slinks off.
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