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Monday, May 18, 2009
Mike Adams :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Nature of Conservatism
by Mike Adams
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The terms “liberal” and “conservative” are bandied about by many who fail to understand the crucial difference between them. Many believe the difference lies in the liberal’s willingness to support government spending. But that explanation falls short. Conservatives are always willing to spend more on defense. Liberals would rather spend money on social programs.

Others believe the liberal is the one who supports “change” while the conservative supports the “status quo.” That explanation also falls short. Ronald Reagan was a conservative. When he came to Washington in 1981 he shook the establishment and brought about change the liberals could not believe in.

If there is one thing that separates the conservative from the liberal it is his view of human nature. The conservative sees man as born in a broken state. This tragic view of human nature sees man as selfish and hedonistic by design. Given his nature, it is no wonder a man chooses crime. It is a wonder he ever chooses conformity.

This tragic view of human nature also explains why conservatives often speak of religion and family values. Given his selfish nature, man must internalize some reason to behave in pro-social ways. That fact that he falls short of these values does not mean he is a hypocrite. The one who does not even believe what he says is the hypocrite. The one who believes what he says and falls short is merely human.

The conservative knows in advance that he (and others) will fall short of what religion expects of him. But his solution is not to give up on religion. His solution is to implement a back-up plan. In the context of crime, that back-up plan takes the form of a criminal justice system focused on punishment.

According to the conservative, effective punishment is that which produces fear of transgression. Fear of transgression occurs when the punishment is swift, certain, and severe. In sum, the conservative believes we should first try to love people into conformity. If that does not work, we should scare people into conformity. But the liberal sees things differently. Everyone is born “good” with a blank slate. To the extent that people become “bad” it is because “society” corrupted them. Nowhere does the liberal explain how combining many good people makes a bad society.

But this is what the liberal thinks. And it is why he sees the criminal justice system as one which should focus on rehabilitation. If people were taught to be bad then, surely, they may be taught to be good again. There are two victims for every crime: The victim of the crime and the criminal himself.

These competing views of human nature produce very different views on how a nation should conduct foreign policy. The liberal, of course, sees the United Nations as a valuable tool. Since people are fundamentally good, war is often a product of misunderstanding. The UN provides a place where we can sit down and talk out these misunderstandings in order to preserve peace.

But the conservative sees the UN as a waste of prime real estate in Manhattan. We don’t misunderstand each other at all. For example, Ronald Reagan understood that the communists sought total world domination. The communists understood that we didn’t want that. And they understood exactly what we were saying when we built up our defenses and actively sought the means to shoot their missiles out of the sky.

The conservative Ronald Reagan understood what the liberal Barack Obama does not: When it comes to foreign policy, it is better to be feared than to be loved.

Barack Obama’s incorrect assessment of human nature renders unnecessary any wishes that he will fail in his plans to move America towards a socialist economy. Regardless of whether we want him to fail or just want his policies to fail both will. Human nature demands it.

I tried to illustrate the wrongfulness of Obama’s economic policies a few weeks ago when I penned the satirical column “My New Spread the Wealth Grading Policy.” First, I stated that I would take ten points from all students making “A” grades and give them to students with “F” grades. This would make a more equal grade distribution – one with only three grades of “B,” “C,” and “D.”

The next part of my satirical policy was the total leveling of the grade distribution. Students with a grade of “B” would be forced to give ten points to students with a grade of “D.” Thus, everyone would wind up with an average grade of “C.”

This was to show that a system designed to promote equality will inevitably destroy the work product. No one will put forth his best effort if his outcome (mediocrity) has been determined in advance.

The point, for those who missed it, is two-fold: 1) My Spread the Wealth Grading Policy would inevitably produce a lower standard of academic achievement. 2) Obama’s Spread the Wealth Economic Policy will inevitably produce a lower standard of living.

Human nature dictates that I am right. People have an inborn desire to compete. When deprived of the chance to compete they simply quit trying. I challenge my liberal readers to convince me that I’m wrong.

For Further Reading: The Vision of the Anointed: Self-Congratulation as a Basis for Public Policy, by Thomas Sowell.

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About The Author
Mike Adams is a criminology professor at the University of North Carolina Wilmington and author of Feminists Say the Darndest Things: A Politically Incorrect Professor Confronts "Womyn" On Campus.
 
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Right On, Right On!
"The conservative Ronald Reagan understood what the liberal Barack Obama does not: When it comes to foreign policy, it is better to be feared than to be loved."

You can't be clearer, Mike. It's sickening to read that sentence and then try to understand why in the world Obama wants other countries to love the USA.

Innocent Will
Oh to be as innocent as Will from CA. Or is it ignorant of life all around him? I'll pray for you Will.

Welcome To Obamanation!
With:

A $787bn stimulus.

A several hundred billion dollar budget for signed in March.

A $3.6tn budget.

A national debt of $23.9tn dollar in 10 years.

Annual debt service of $1tn starting in 2019.

Continuing unemployment increases and home fallings that have fallen.

Gas prices of $3 gallon this summer.

Higher energy costs because of the recision of offshore leases in the Gulf on Mexico and Alaska that are dated beginning 01.01.07. Plus, a coal industry that Obama is going to go after with solar and wind only making up 1% of the nation's energy supply.

Inflation going to 3% shortly and much higher because of the Federal Reserve's printing trillions and massive spending.

Food prices increasing.

Stock portfolios decimated.

China cutting up our credit cards.

Russia, China, and France cautioning Obama's spending.

A $2tn national healthcare bill.

Yep, welcome to Obamanation.



Getting to the Root of It
This is the Biblical doctrine. This is foundational to the Judaeo/Christian ethic. We need a redeemer. We need a saviour from our totally depraved nature that sins and actually likes to sin.

The grace of God is the difference between liberal camps and conservative ones. Those who receive grace to believe in Jesus Christ are given a new and different nature... one fashioned like Christ by the Spirit of God...while those not born again by His grace... are not.

These completely different types of people have totally opposing beliefs of truth and reality. These differences are described by Jesus as comparing sheep and goats, wheat and tares(weeds), seeing and blind, hearing and deaf, wise and foolish, lovers of God vs. lovers of self, the principled vs. the pragmatist, etc.

There is always contention between the people that belong to God and those who don't. The focus of that antagonism is the need of a saviour provided by God the Father in His Son Jesus Christ.

RE: Will
I'm 20 years old, so I don't really know anything, but I just think about how some unfortunate men in particular grow up with no one in their lives who can give them the attention and validation they deserve. I think about them and I wonder, wow, those are the guys who end up getting jailed for trafficking drugs or abusing women or other crimes or who generally can't take care of themselves and their families as well as they might like to.

From this perspective, it makes more sense that people are born into sin and, unaided by parents or mentors, end up poor or in prison. A gross generalization, but I think there's truth in it.

My take:
Conservatives make a mistake, say they are sorry AND REPENT.

A liberal assumes saying, "I'm sorry" is all that is necessary.

Sounds like a tot whining when caught in the cookie jar: "I'll be good."

Like heck. You'll do it again, if not punished enough to cause repentance.

Again, a non-hateful column
Adams has again written a decent, non-hateful, even educational column for his readers.

Although his psychology is all wrong, this "different views of human nature" is a legitimate (if dated) view of the difference between liberals and conservatives.

But unfortunately, Adams' psychology is really shoddy. Research indicates that it's motivational processes that are fundamental in differentiating liberals and conservatives. For example, conservatives tend to be less agreeable than liberals, and more concerned with dominance than liberals. These motivational differences give rise to many cognitive differences. For example, conservatives' concern with social dominance leads them to view people as unequal, with their particular group as being dominant to others. So it's not that "human nature is broken", but rather, "every one who is not like me (minorities, etc). is broken". Being motivated to think in this way leads to greater prejudice, intolerance, and bigotry in conservatives, but at the same time, it leads to greater in-group loyalty in conservatives.

Adams makes numerous other mistakes, such as his reliance on competition. Most psychologists believe although competition is important in human nature, cooperation is even more important. And his "spread the wealth grading system" is absurd because in the real world of acquired resources (wealth) there is no upper limit as there is with grades, which brings very different motives and incentives into play. But still, Adams should be applauded for not bashing minorities.

If you would like to actually learn something about the difference between liberals and conservatives, something based on modern psychological research rather than 19th century philosophy, then two books would be worth reading: Robert Altemeyer (2006) The Authoritarian Personality and F. Pratto & J. Sidanius (1994) Social Dominance Orientation.

What a fantastic article.
Very insightful and profound.

As a liberal, I find his generalization essentially true - I consider humans to be good at their core, and believe they are twisted into evil deeds by institutions (or individuals) which usurp and hoard resources.

Those resources may be emotional, in the case of many troubled teens in our society who nonetheless have food to eat and clothing to wear.

But on a larger scale, the unequal distribution of resources to the point of endless gluttony for the extreme minority in the face of simultaneous poverty for the vast majority has led to violent and criminal outcomes.

To this I would add that the basic belief espoused here of original sin is to blame for some of the deepest and realest psychotic and self-destructive behavior on the part of all fundamentalists: christian and muslim alike.

IMHO, the myth of original sin functioned to bind populations to the religious orders that offered the only palliative: often a ticket to heaven purchased at the price of sacrificing the body to the army of god.

In short, I believe this myth itself, the belief that all men are evil and must be treated as such first and foremost, is in fact the CAUSE of the evil behavior.

If you kick a dog as you pass, he will surely bite you. Is it fair to say that is an evil dog?

Will, why do you react so strongly?
Will, of course you have to chime in on everything, but I wonder why you react so strongly to the doctrine of original sin? Will, don't you know that the path to salvation begins by admitting your guilt and shame and unworthiness - meaning NOT to proclaim your inherent "goodness" - so that you can invite Jesus Christ into your life? Mike has a point here, and I hope you will meditate on it: it could change your life.

Great job, Mike
I read every column you write, and while you tend to go back to central themes and echo previous columns, I still keep reading. But what you wrote in this column about how conservatives and liberals view society and themselves is something I don't think I've ever heard before, and I think it's truly insightful.

Understanding human nature
Great reading Dr Adams.

No one can explain this like the Apostle Paul did in the book of Romans.

We are two people, all humans are.

There is the public or the outward man, and there is the inner private man.

Inwardly our thoughts and desires are hidden from the public view, and its impossible for the public to know another's inner desires or thoughts unless that person tells what they are.

To be true to those inner emotions or desires and live a good clean life is why honesty is respected and liars are not.

The liar never tells what his true thoughts are but plays games with words to create a public image.

That explains all one ever needs to know about the obama,and liberals.

Never met a one who was not a hypocrite about some part of their lives.

I do not apologize for seeing that either, its the world as I know it to be.

There is the body's needs and lusts and there is the souls (inner desires) needs and goals.
If those desires are based in a good work, he gains for both his body and soul.
On the other hand, if those desires are for something that is not good, he gains misery for himself and his victims.



So far, spot on column:
Great column Dr. Adams. The two liberal man crush trolls, will, and Douglas, continue to illustrate the points of your column to the reader.

What drives Dr. Douglas and will is two factors that also identify a majority of liberals, will is an obvious atheist, and both trolls have a "hate America" mentality.

Truly, both are perfectly willing to sink America for their own ideology.

Neither one has any respect for those outside their ideological guardrails.

As an example both refuse to address Dr. Adams by his proper title. A deliberate lack of respect. Another sign of a true liberal.

Thanks for the warning,Dr Dugass...
...I'll be sure to stay away from those two books.I don't want to waste my time.

The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.
Let's see, after many centuries of a Christian Europe, my forefathers couldn't wait to get out of there, and come here.

Now, y'all seem to be making great effort to make America that Europe of bygone days, regardless the postions y'all take.

I don't get it.

Dr Doogie

Spare us your pseudoscience pschobabble. You don't, in fact, know what you're talking about. Gross generalities are just that; generalities and are about as scientific as vomit from a drunk.

Dr Dougie, why don't you just...
.
...get your own d*mn column instead of wetting your collegiate diapers here in fromt of the world.

Most of us who read and comment here know about your "diaper-rash" irritation regarding Mr. Adams.

Liberals Think We Need Them
Because they feel they are the elite.

But Alex, you will meet lots of ne'er-do-wells who had all the parental and home advantages, and plenty of child-neglected men who still make a go of life. It all comes down to free will.

Dr. Douglas
The problem with your assertions about modern psychological research is that almost all psychological theory begins with a neutral or positive view of human goodness, making it heavily biased towards liberal-leaning explanations of human behavior. I would argue (and don't need to work hard to prove) that anti-religious left-wing political movements are far more controlling, intolerant of "others" and dissent, since almost every totalitarian movement, including Nazism (often mistakenly called "right-wing") in the 20th century is a product secular liberalism. The previously thousand years of "Christian" monarchies and religious wars can't hold a candle to the destruction wrought upon the human soul by political and philosophical theories after Nietzsche. Armchair political opiners quickly forget that everything from public eduction to the abolition of slavery and the emancipation of women all started out as religious drives to improve the human condition.

Adams is certainly right: one does not need to wish and hope liberalism to fail - it will fail on it own regardless. All political theories based upon a faulty theory of human nature, will necessarily fail. Human nature is like a weed that eventually pokes it's way through the cracks in concrete of any aesthetic laid on top of it. The only thing required is time. The reason people don't like that is because it's not very flattering to the Ego. If human beings are evil by nature and there is no God, well, there's only three possible responses: hedonism, suicide, or, what most people do: denial. And, isn't denial always the strategy of a damaged psyche? Most psychological theory says so.

My favorite comparison
Of course Will & "Dr." Douglas focus on the religious aspects of Dr. Adams column, liberals don't like religion. Let's make it simple for them. If you leave small children playing together unsupervised, sooner or later, an altercation will ensue. One child will take a toy from another, one might strike another ... in any event, tears are SURE to flow. It IS "human nature". And it is undeniable. You guys ever read "Lord Of The Flies"?
Liberals believe their struggle is with the outside world, that society is making them a victim and denying them their "fair share".
Conservatives believe their struggle is with themselves, and their natural tendency towards being lazy, gluttonous, greedy etc. This concept does not necessarily come from religious teachings - it can be arrived at by observation as well.
My favorite comparison between liberals and conservatives this:
A man picks up a rock and throws it through a store window. The liberal, supports the man's right to express himself, although wants to set up a support group to find out what happened in the man's upbringing, or what affect society had to cause him to express himself in such an anti-social manner. Perhaps an investigation of the store owner would be appropriate as well, with the insistence that he pay for the man's "treatment".
The conservative, would expect the man to pay for the window.

Douglas
Do you actually believe the tripe you post here?

“Cooperation is more important to the human psyche than competition?” Really? You perfectly illustrate why socialism/communism/liberalism has always failed and will always fail.

But please keep posting....it’s good for us all to be occasionally reminded of the twisted and bizarre views produced by the liberal thought process. You’re a classic!

I wonder
How many liberals have ever visited a prison. Or went to see a guy in a hospital who tried to kill himself but succeeded only in shooting his face off. Or watched a kid dying of leukemia bring his whole family to Christ by the the manner of his passing.

It's only a partially-formed observation, but the visitors I encounter in such venues do not seem liberal to me. Could that be our problem?

re: My Favorite Comparison
I would add that the liberal would enter the store through the broken window to reap his "share" of the fortutitous bounty from the rich, corrupt store owner.

Dr. Douglas and Neil/CA @6:23am
Neil/Ca's diagnosis of 'Dr.' Douglas was spot on. Even without looking at them, you know the studies the 'doc' cited had liberal bias at their roots, so of course they turn out with leftish results. I would sooner go to Neil for any ailment than 'the Quack.' Has anyone ever checked out what 'Close cover before striking' junior college Dr. D. bought, i mean earned his sheepskin?

As Mike Adams constantly points out, there is no place so undemocratic and illiberal as your typical university faculty brie eating chablis sipping 'people's porsche driving' lounge.

For me, the fundamental difference between liberals and conservatives is that conservatives, is that conservatives agree with the old adage that 'we are only 'little people'[=current PC term]standing on the shoulders of giants (e.g., Moses, Jesus, St. Paul, Plato, Aristotle, yes, Augustine, US Founders); whereas libs think 'we [e.g., Pelosi, Madonna, Dennis Rodman, Ted Kennedy, Barney Frank etc.) are the giants, standing on the shoulders of 'little people.'

In summary...
The entire article can be summed up as follows:

The difference between conservatism is:

Conservatism works.
Liberalism doesn't.

It's really that simple.

Will
I don't know what Jews today believe, but since a good bit of the early part of the Old Testament was taken up with describing how to make sacrifices for sin and atonement, I would say the early Jews certainly acknowledged the sinfulness of man. Then there's the Book of Judges with its theme, "Every man did what was right in his own sight..." and the account of all the sin that led to.

I have always wanted to ask people who believe children are born with a clean slate, inherently good, then when did you start teaching your kid to disobey you, and be defiant, and lie. Because it started pretty early with my kids. I didn't have time to teach them to be naughty because I was too busy dealing with the naughtiness (a.k.a. sin) which they exhibited with no help from me whatsoever.

Dr. Douglass-Robert Altemeyer
Because i obviously have too much time on my hands, I googled this Altemeyer and his books. First of all, though he was originally a US citizen, he has been teaching in Canada for 40 years-2 strikes against him already.

Dr. doug cites "the Authoritian personality." But its predessor book was titled more honestly: "Enemies of Freedom: Understanding Right Wing Authoritarianism." Gee, that sounds so open-minded, so liberal as to the possible outcome of the research. That word "enemies" sounds so hateful, so mean-spirited, it couldn't have been written by a card carrying self-proclaimed compassionate lib?

He also wrote a book called "Atheists: a Groudbreaking study on America's non-believers." Gee, "groundbreaking" in the title? Kind of pompous, no? don't you usually wait for the reviewers to call it that?

Recent update on authoritarianism "The Authoritarian Specter [Arlen?], published by that right wing bastion, harvard univ press.

Dr. douglas, altemeyer finis
"Product Description

The bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City, the emergence of militias and skinheads, the rise of the religious right, the attacks on Planned Parenthood clinics, the backlash against equal rights movements, the increase in poverty...these, according to Bob Altemeyer, are all versions of one story--the authoritarian personality in action. But aren't authoritarians Nazi types, kooks, the Klan? These are just the extreme examples, he argues. The Authoritarian Specter shows that many ordinary people today are psychologically disposed to embrace antidemocratic, fascist policies."

This is the publisher's own product description of the 1996 Authoritarian Specter, which shows harvard's 'neutral' mindset. Notice all the 6 'examples' the paragraph starts with are all from the conservative side, so there is not even a pretense of fairness, of finding and describing authoritarian lib moves, which are so many as to be uncountable. And of course, all good conservatives condemn Timothy mcVeigh and abortion doctor killngs, so including them is guilt by association illogic.

So Dr. Douglas, who i guess has gone back to bed, this tripe is what you call scholarly research? LMAO

I am still torn between wondering whether these patent leftie-biases are intentional, or they really are so blind that they can't see how they stereotype the right, and how much 'iron fist in velvet glove' authoritarianism is on the left.

Obama a Cunning Narcissist

I do not believe that Barack Obama has a high IQ.

I do believe that Barack Obama is an extremely 'Cunning' individual.

Cunning = dexterous or crafty in the use of special resources (as skill or knowledge) or in attaining an end, characterized by wiliness and trickery, has great skill in subtlety (as in inventing, devising, or executing).

Obama the 'Narcissist' has detailed his lack of identity, self-worth and self-esteem in his books and interviews.

Obama the 'Narcissist' feeds his 'Needs' from the feedback of his followers and anyone who will listen to him and praise him.

Obama finds his 'self induced' visions of grandeur hard to maintain. Obama does NOT like any challenge to 'His Reality'. Obama is NEVER himself but identifies with the image of his 'Reality'.

Obama believes any challenge that would ask him to account for his actions, decisions or positions, is 'Unacceptable' and does NOT give him the 'Reverence' he so justly deserves.

Obama wants everyone to look at him with admiration, gratefulness and awe, to feed his insatiable appetite to feed his inner lack of self-worth and self-esteem.

Obama will sacrifice anything and everyone that does NOT contribute to his self-image.

Obama will become 'Ruthless' towards anyone or anything that does NOT acknowledge that Obama is 'The One'.

Obama will NEVER be satisfied with just Americans proclaiming 'Obama is the ONE', he seeks the acknowledgment of the 'Entire World'.

Barack Obama should NOT be underestimated - he is very cunning and manipulative.


Liberals do not know their brethren.
Similar to Dr. Douglas, I am an instructor, albeit one who did not buy into the goodness of most humans. This goodness was most absent in the uberliberals who attempted, and often succeeded in humiliating students with opposing opinions.

To Dr. Douglas, and the liberal posters a major question. According to Marx, a trashperson with eight children will receive a larger share of the wealth than a single physician, or business owner. Then there is the artist who produces lousy "art" in twenty-four hours receiving the same amount of the wealth as an artist of Michaelangelo Bonarati receives for twenty-four hours of labor? This makes no sense.

JMartin
Thanks for the background on those books!

Paranoidmystic re: 2:25am post
An interesting choice of words, “… the unequal distribution of resources….” To use the term “distribution” seemingly implies a distributor. I’m curious as to who that distributor might be in your estimation. In my experience, it’s not the equality of any supposed “distribution”, but how the resources are manipulated by the receiver that makes the difference. Sort of like the account of the grasshopper and the ant.

All assemblers on a line are paid at the same rate (union rules). Assembler A does his job and receives his pay, as does assembler B. Assembler A saves diligently and invests wisely and plans for his own retirement, while assembler B spends diligently and invests in the bar owner’s plan for retirement. Assembler A soon retires with a small fortune while assembler B winds up penniless and with massive debt. Was it the “unequal distribution of resources” that led to these vastly different outcomes, or the management of the equally “distributed resources” that led to the resulting disparity?

In this country, all have incredible opportunities. It is the choices we make that deliver the varying results we see in society. Some choose productivity and a strong work ethic, while others choose the welfare state and its associated entitlement mentality. It’s simply a matter of the choices we make in life that determine the results.

Will....
talking about imorality is like a whore talking about tricking. It's what he knows about because he practices it. He wants to wean Christians away from their religion to validate his own empty soul.

And the self proclaimed doktor Doug.... What a waste of what could be productive time.

Paranoidmystic opines, "But on a larger scale, the unequal distribution of resources to the point of endless gluttony for the extreme minority in the face of simultaneous poverty for the vast majority has led to violent and criminal outcomes." Typical liberal dogma which is demonstratably untrue. Prior to WW II, the Black population in the south was really poor. Not the relatively posh life the urban punks now call poor, with their bling, color TVs, Michael Jordan shoes, all day and all night slothfulness. And the crime rate among those pre-WW II Blacks was extremely low compared to the urban Blacks now. And illegitimate births were orders of magnitude lower. Mystic, you need to go back to, say, the fourth grade and start again. You are truly ignorant.

Conservativism
I can't agree with your premise on Conservative beliefs. I am the most conservative person you will ever find and I believe one is born innocent--neither good or bad.

That fact alone, I believe, is why we find ourselves where we are now...half the country a bunch of brainwashed idiots due to incompetent teachers or intentional indoctrination.

What we do know is...

What we do know as we look across the United States is wherever there is a high concentration of Liberals, we see high crime, bad schools, dirty streets, run down parks, poverty, desparation, and dispare.

In conservative communities we see low crime rates, safer streets, a more civil tone, respect for other people's property, clean streets, good schools, and a sense of community.

I prefer to live among conservatives.

Simplify It
Liberals are lazy, they want someone else to do all the work for them. Usually the government. It's give me, give me some more, and give me even more. Then I'll complain that I am not receiving enough.

hogrider
Great post.
If it were somehow possible, we could equally divide all the wealth and knowledge in the world among every living adult and erase all personal memories of influential/powerful "contacts"....and in less than a year (couple of months?) we would have a poverty class, a middle class and a wealthy class. Libs can never grasp this fact.

New idea
I like the idea that the belief regarding the nature of man at birth directs how he interacts and affects society; that is to say his thinking , speech and every point of his conservative vs liberal behavior.
What I like most about it, is that it may genuinely allow for a new direction. A direction that gets at 'a real' or even 'the real' premise of mans existence. If we were to determine that or perhaps even invent a new one, what effect would it have on ideology and social behavior? Would man fall or thrive? Are we perhaps intended to engage in lifelong folly as an form of species self imprisonment?

Dr Douglas Part 1
Dr D speaks of Dr. Altemeyer and says of Dr Adam's column, "But unfortunately, Adams' psychology is really shoddy." I contend that all psychology can fall into that category as no two people are 100% alike. Look at Altemeyer's research:

Robert Altemeyer is a University of Manitoba psychologist. Altemeyer has spent a career administering a questionnaire he calls the “Right Wing Authoritarianism Survey,” in which he asks subjects to agree or disagree with statements such as “the old-fashioned ways and old-fashioned values still show the best way to live” or “there is nothing wrong with premarital sexual intercourse.” After collecting the results, Altemeyer goes on to find that those who score high on the “RWA” scale also tend to be political conservatives. Well, yeah: the questions themselves do little more than elicit conservative or liberal attitudes in the first place. The RWA scale shows only that conservative beliefs correlate well with . . . other conservative beliefs.


Conservative vs. Liberal
I believe this column is way too simplistic. To begin with this are varying views within the ranks of what we would call conservative. You have liberatian conservatives, Social Conservatives, Economic conservatives and Neo-cons. There are probably more conservatives then I mentioned. On some issues these conservatives find common ground, but on others issues they are worlds apart. The fact that so many of them find themselves on the same side is more of a reaction to the other side. Then there are also degrees. Some are moderate like Retired supreme court justice Jutice O'Connor, some are far right like Hannity and there are people even more to the right of him.

The problem with this analysis is based upon it, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Nixon, and Bush Senior are liberals.

Liberals are not so simply defined either and it is unreasonable to lump all liberals into the same classification as the far left.

I believe that the vast majority of americans are moderates and yet the far right just refuses to acknowledge their existence.

Dr Douglas Part II
Altermeyer;

Furthermore, to the extent that the RWA survey measures anything at all, it measures nothing close to what Altemeyer thinks it does. Is it true, for example, that “Our country desperately needs a mighty leader who will do what has to be done to destroy the radical new ways and sinfulness that are ruining us”? Maybe Altemeyer thinks that anyone who answers “yes” pines for a charismatic nationalist leader a la—who else?—Adolf Hitler. But, in fact, any effective political leader could fit the description. In the civil-rights era, for example, did not our country “desperately need” (to rectify injustice) a “mighty leader” (he certainly had a large following) such as the sainted Martin Luther King Jr. who was willing to “do what it takes” (organize marches and boycotts) to “stamp out” (end) “sinfulness” (segregation) and “radical new ways” (racist backlash)? Logical consistency would compel nearly everyone to agree with the statement, no matter how provocatively phrased. If it turns out that only conservatives say that they agree, this shows only that conservatives understand the meaning of words.

Dr Douglas Part III
Altemeyer;

The RWA survey teems with other such statements, many of almost irredeemable silliness. Take, for example, “God’s laws about abortion, pornography and marriage must be strictly followed.” Well, who could disagree with that? If God’s laws are by definition perfectly good, then by modus ponens one should follow them whether God exists or not. The statement is as self-evidently true as “All unicorns are horses.” Curiously, however, Altemeyer finds that left-wingers tend to disagree with the statement. One may conclude, therefore, that leftist ideology tends to incapacitate logic—an important result, perhaps worthy of further research, but not the one Altemeyer was going for.

Meanwhile, the RWA survey seems specifically calculated to avoid identifying authoritarian attitudes on the Left. Altemeyer claims to have looked for left-wing authoritarians but failed to find them. If so, this does not speak well of his scientific imagination. One could probably find left-wing authoritarians in an afternoon by asking subjects if they agree that “those with intolerant or bigoted views shouldn’t be allowed to express them in public” or “God condemns anyone who is judgmental or intolerant of people who have different religions or lifestyles.” Instead, the “left-wing” statements on the RWA survey—e.g., “there’s nothing wrong with nudist camps”—merely afford subjects an opportunity to show how free-thinking they are. Not once does the RWA survey attempt to draw out the myriad conventions and prejudices that characterize left-wing ideologies.

Dr Douglas Part IV
You see that if you approach research from an ideological perspective to prove your ideology is the best, then your results will naturally be flawed. Altemeyer has been discredited in his research by numerous other researchers using less pointed and directive questionaires.

His research has been picked apart by independents and conservatives but nice try Dr Douglas.

Great Column
It can be summed up in one sentance, When it comes t oforeign policy, it is better to be feared then loved. What libs don't get is we are already hated by those who seek to destroy us. When we try to make peace with them they not only hate us they are disgusted by us because they know obambi wont stand up for anything. They will NEVER love us because they believe wewill destroy what they believe in and they will neverletthat happen and are willing to fight for it. Sadly they know obambi nor any lib wont fight for anything.

JMartin
Thank you for the report on the author, I figured as much. Touche!

There's something even more basic
Conservatism DOES require the concept that human beings have evil tendencies at their core, and therefore need laws to teach them the limits of evil behaviors and fear of punishment to motivate them not to choose such evil behaviors. But this leaves the arbiters and administrators of such laws curiously unexplained. If human nature is primarily evil, then why should anyone trust a democratic process to produce a government capable of justice in applying laws?

I think the principle of freedom is even more basic to the core of conservative thought. Despite our tendencies to evil, somehow, as if by magic, it ends up being contrary to most experience that a majority of people will choose evil leaders. This is NOT to say that everyone will agree with the leaders that are chosen, but rather that people in the aggregate are disposed to making morally right judgments despite their individual penchants for evil.

Maybe what I'm trying to develop here doesn't disagree with Michael so much after all. He ISN'T saying that people ARE evil, but that human nature has evil TENDENCIES. Given freedom of choice, then, our equal tendencies to better ourselves, to better each other (yes, often through competition!) make it possible for human beings to choose RIGHT even more than they choose wrong. That we all choose wrong at some point or another should be quite plain to any fair observer, but a society may make morally right choices as a group because individuals choose more good than evil on the whole.

This is a developing thought...Input anyone?

JMO
A lot of what you said makes some sense but the one person you did not mention was obambi who is far far left with no one that I can see, besides Stalin who is on his left

Dr Douglas Part V
Sorry, my qoute line fell off. Credit this research to Austin Bramwell who wrote an analysis of Altemeyer's prejudiced research in 2006.

Base line conservatism
JMO51 wrote
Location: NY
Reply # 1
Date: May 18, 2009 - 8:35 AM EST Conservative vs. Liberal
"I believe this column is way too simplistic. To begin with this are varying views within the ranks of what we would call conservative. You have liberatian conservatives, Social Conservatives, Economic conservatives and Neo-cons."

The real, true, foundational conservative is what you call the "social," that is, the religion based. What is a conservative? S/he is one who wants to conserve what is good about our culture/civilization. What is good about our civilization? It is that it is founded on the Judaeo-Christian ethic, along with Greco-Roman philosophy.

Now, later on came the so-called enlightenment [endarkenment], which borrowed/stole truths from the J-C ethic such as love, compassion etc. and turned them into liberty, equality, fraternity, life, pursuit of happiness, which are at the base of modern political philosophy. Along with Adam Smith's captialism, at the time all this was called liberalism, yet we want to conserve the best features of both, since the US Constitution recognized how corrupt humans especially politicians could be, hence the myriad checks and balances.

The problem comes when libertarians and so-called [merely] economic conservatives either downplay or deny religious/social conservativism, they fail to see that it was and is the Judaeo-Christian ethic which gave the energy and vitality to modern liberalism, and our culture has been living off that inherited moral wealth, but the account is just about over drawn, we're running on fumes.

Born Innocent
I believe that we are born innocent, but that we are also born with free agency. As we progress through life some will make poor, bad, or outright evil choices. Many will commit crimes.

As I see it, the most noble and idealistic liberal will believe that with the proper and communal societal arrangement, everyone will naturally want to live in peace and harmony and take care of each other's needs. Unfortunately, the human existence has shown that this will not work. After all, some pigs are more equal than others. If everyone was completely moral, it wouldn't matter what societal structure we lived in.

I agree that conservatism, and capitalism, takes into account the notion that we are born with free agency to choose good or evil. I believe that conservatism, rule of law, capitalism, and living in a Repulic, and a belief in God form the best coalition of philosophy to enhance the human existence.

Dr. Dipsh!t's column appraisal
As we have come to know, DD has made it his personal mission, as self appointed arbiter of the social worthiness of Prof Mike Adams' weekly syndicated column, to plague this board with his usually sneering but always condescending verbiage.

But, of course, we would not have it any other way for we know there is a personal psychosis involved and such posting addresses an acute need for therapy.

To confer this charlatan with the role, is to demean the attention one spends on more worthy posts.

Re: New Idea #39
Yo Buddy,
I have been working on just such a "new idea" myself. Here it is: The purpose of mankind's existence is to appreciate creation on behalf of the creator. Stand anyone from anywhere in front of one of the most majestic creations, (The Grand Canyon, Niagara Falls etc.), and no one will look away. The awe of nature is universally appreciated by the human spirit. And one doesn't have to look hard to find that same majesty in blades of grass, trees, birds, blue sky and clouds all around us every day. And don't mistake this for a notion that the planet reigns supreme (green religion). Man reigns supreme, because only man can fill the prime directive: To appreciate and begin to understand what the creator hath wrought. Man himself as creator is capable of inspiring awe - witness the Great Pyramids,the Aswan Dam, Eiffel Tower etc. That is because man is the ultimate creation, the top of the heap, and therefore more important than the plight of the one-eyed stickle fish population.
I would hasten to point out that all the Judeao-Christian philosophies and principles are supported by this position, i.e., it is wrong to mess with your fellow humans because they too, are here to fulfill the prime directive.

Reply # 7.
"A liberal assumes saying, "I'm sorry" is all that is necessary."

Actually, a liberal assumes that saying "An apology may be indicated ((due)) to those who took offense to that which they misconstrued or misunderstood".
No aplology there, along with the slam at "their" intelligence.

A different view
I see it as differing levels of mental disorder, Autism = Conservative and Bi-Polar = Liberal. It's that simple.

JMartin
Well stated

Why Dr. Adams is right...
... and the Left is wrong.

If we were born good, we would need no incentive to continue to be good. There would be no need for law, religion, social order, or anything like that. If good was in our nature, and we had to work to be bad, we would not be bad, because there's no advantage to it.

Having been born evil, we must work to be good. There are incentives to being good, both spiritual and temporal. Being good fosters friendly relationships with other people, safety for you and your loved ones, keeps you out of prison, and, of course, helps you getting into heaven. When these incentives to be good (or disincentives to be bad) are taken away, people will tend to believe that being bad is OK, because it comes more naturally.

Neil in CA
"Adams is certainly right: one does not need to wish and hope liberalism to fail - it will fail on it own regardless. All political theories based upon a faulty theory of human nature, will necessarily fail. Human nature is like a weed that eventually pokes it's way through the cracks in concrete of any aesthetic laid on top of it. The only thing required is time. The reason people don't like that is because it's not very flattering to the Ego. If human beings are evil by nature and there is no God, well, there's only three possible responses: hedonism, suicide, or, what most people do: denial. And, isn't denial always the strategy of a damaged psyche? Most psychological theory says so."

Very well said - your words are worth repeating. Have you ever seen the feral child - the one raised with no bounds?

This is the kind the trendy libs raise - and they are awful to be around.

And if I am reading you correctly, religion, at least a belief in God, is the basis of morality - not the situational, nature based gibberish the libs like to refer to.

Doctor Dingleberry
In order to elevate his status to that of Dr. Adams, the Dingleberry has made it his task to evaluate, correct and scold each and every column written by Dr. Adams. Dingleberry has hitched his star to Adams in hopes that it will rise, but alas it will continue to be unnoticed, overcome by the brilliance of the real Doctor.

Will
Stick to things of which you know.

Son of the Morning, Bearer of Light
My religion, Mormon, teaches a doctrine of a pre-existence that influences my beliefs on conservatism as well.

We are taught that Lucifer was a cherished son of our Heavenly Father who presented his plan for life on earth. We would not be given free agency, we would therefore all be born good, live righteous lives on earth and return to live with our Heavenly Father and all the credit would go to Lucifer for devising and arranging such a plan. Sounds good to me! I'm good and saved no questions asked.

Then why did we choose the other plan presented? We would be given free-agency, we would come to earth and suffer, be tested, and some of us would fail. But others would succeed, prosper, grow in spiritual insight and depth and then return to our Heavenly Father with a better spirit. Since we would be free to make these choices, we would also need to repent, and we would need a Savior to mediate on our behalf through the atonement. This was the plan of Jesus Christ and he offered himself to be our Savior.

I see the most noble liberals trying to turn the existence we have on earth into the plan Lucifer set forth. Unfortunately, it is not consistent with what was decided in heaven before we came to earth. Man needs the freedom to choose for himself.

1960Republican
Your analogy has it exactly backwards.

What we see happening today is the Secular Europeanization of this country with the resulting diminishing of both personal liberties and economic security.

Remember, it wasn't secular progressives who emigrated from Europe and turned this country into the most desirable place on the planet to live in.

Although he does not explicitly state it, Dr. Adams has it exactly right when he delineates the division between those who are influenced by a worldview that draws its pedigree from a Biblical perspective and those who are not.


Religious Liberals
I know some people of great faith who also have liberal tendencies. They understand they are to care for their fellow man as Christ commanded. They are to love one another. But the flaw I see in their approach is that a government should be the tool used to accomplish this goal. When we are taxed in order to provide social care for others, we are not doing this out of free will, we are being forced into compassion. The "giver," i.e. tax-payer, does not gain spiritually nor does the recipient feels blessed by the generosity freely given but begins to think they are entitled to help.

When we are compassionate and charitable towards our fellow man because we freely choose to help as we honor Jesus Christ by obeying this commandment, we grow. Those we help in an intimate, neighborly way, feel of our love and can be blessed as well.

Dr. Douglas @ 2:11am
I must respectfully disagree with “your” assessment of the differences between the liberal and conservative natures.

Observations made today indicate that the reverse is the case. Conservatives would let the banks and auto companies rise or fall on their own merit, while liberals are meddling where they do not belong in order to dominate or otherwise control these fields.

If memory serves, it was during a liberal administration that the Community Reinvestment Act was made law and then expanded under another liberal administration. Obama himself took direct part in dictating who the banks were to loan money to in the well known Citibank case. Does this not indicate a desire for dominance over the banking industry? Conservatives would have trusted the banks to do what was in their own interest and not loan money to those without the means to repay, thus avoiding the whole mortgage meltdown in the first place.

Evidence shows that, in many cases, today’s liberal college professors do not allow for the opinions of their conservative students. Does this reveal a more or less agreeable attitude? The absence of opposing ideas in the classroom have resulted in an increased belief in government as god and the entitlement mentality that runs so rampant in today’s society. Lost is the instruction in critical thinking which was readily available just two short generations ago.

Adams reliance on competition is not mistaken. It is the reliance on cooperation that has led to the decline of excellence in the United States allowing foreign competition to transcend us in matters of quality and productivity in many areas; manufacturing comes to mind. Competition breeds excellence. It is the belief that none should excel beyond the mean which has resulted in our ever increasing third world status. Stifling competition is a sure road to the self-destruction of these United States; an innate desire of those who hold to a liberal ideology.



n
Other than for the purpose of whining about the president, you can't really believe he is that far to the left. In fact the left is kinda pissed at Obama.

Here are just some of the things that they don't like. The bailouts to the banks. The left is angry that Obama has choose to escalate the war in afganistan by sending more troops. The left has been clamoring for a truth comission Obama clearly does not want that and said so. Obama included tax cuts in the stimulas something the left opposed.

He has just recently reversed his campaign position on Military Tribunals because as Obama promised he would listen to his generals. The same is true for the new pictures that have surfaced.

The far left has painted itself into a corner with its over the top rhetoric about Obama. Is Obama more left leaning then the Republicans, of course he is. Is he a threat to the conservative movement, you bet ya. He is smart, pragmatic, and cannot be swift boated. But is he a far left radical? Of course, not and that is exact why he is a threat.


Frankenstein Verses Dr. Jekyll
Great article Dr. Adams!
To plumb the depths of this discussion I recommend the book "THE DEADLIEST MONSTER;An Introduction to Worldviews" by J.F. Baldwin.

He contrasts and compares Frankenstein with Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. To quote: "Every thinking person in the world believes firmly that either the story of Frankenstein or the story of Jekyll and Hyde is true. It's just that we can't agree about which one it is...What's more, it matters who is right and who is wrong...[People] believe one of the stories is of themselves and Everyman."

They believe the monster Frankenstein speaks for them when he says, "I was benevolent & good; misery made me a fiend. Make me happy, & I shall again be virtuous."
Or they believe Jekyll speaks for them, "It was the curse of mankind that these incongruous personalities--the good & the bad were thus bound together...polar twins should be continuously struggling."

May God open the eyes of all, especially Christians who've bought Satan's lie of Frankenstein.

"It's no use saying that any worldview is as good as any other worldview. Christianity differs dramatically from every other worldview, and as a result it demands dramatically different behavior from its adherents. When a person is asked to choose, it seems wise for that person to side with the worldview that leads to heroism instead of chaos."

Keep up the fight, Dr. Adams--we need heroism not chaos!

Getting Back to Basics for Conservatives
Mike Adams is right in his definition of conservatism. Moderates try to blur everything into shades of grey because they have no core believe system. They just go with what they perceive as being politically popular. Liberal don like this definition of consrevative because it show how intellectutally banckrupt their ideology is and why when you try to debate them on the issues they immediately go for the personal attacks.

For conservative to win in 2010 they must simply be true to their convictions.

Imagine a World

Imagine a World, where an 'Individual' can own private property that will NOT be taken from them.

Imagine a World, where an 'Individual' can work to provide for their own family and NOT have the results of their hard work and 'Good' decisions, stolen from them and given to those who refuse to do the same.

Imagine a World, where Individuals are NOT 'Punished' for working hard and those who refuse to 'Work Hard' are rewarded.

Imagine a World, where everyone has equal 'Rights and Protections' under the U. S. Constitution and Bill of Rights - instead of 'Special Rights' and 'Protections' for some, but NOT others.

Imagine a World, where a man and a woman can join together as 'One' and fulfill the design of the Creator to procreate, without being attacked, vilified and declared abnormal.

Imagine a World, where children are taught in Schools skills that will help them 'Survive' in a hostile world, instead of learning how to place a 'Condom on a Zucchni'.

Imagine a World, where an Individual is 'Judged by their Character', instead of being heralded for their 'Lack of Character'.

Imagine a World, where defenseless little babies who have survived an abortion and are separated from their"mothers" and struggling to live, are given aid instead of being set aside to die of thirst or starvation in excruciating pain alone and crying in terror - because the most powerful man in the World - Barack Obama - believes that when a woman 'Contracts' for a dead baby - they deserve a dead baby.

State of Nature
Mike,

Your column is great. Without specifically saying so, you've reproduced the social contract debates of the 17th and 18th centuries.

Rousseau thought people were naturally good and that society corrupted them. He was a radical democrat and a force behind the French Revolution. Eventually it failed.

Thomas Hobbes thought people were naturally bad and government was necessary to keep order and protect the people. Life with no government would be "nasty, brutish, and short." His ideas and those of John Locke produced the Glorious Revolution in England and the American Revolution here. So far, it's worked.

It's time to discredit these so-called liberals yet again.

Dr Douglas ignoring the obvious
The delusional Dr Douglas makes statements such as "conservatives tend to be less agreeable than liberals". Let's consider the atmosphere found in perhaps the purest liberal domain in our nation, academia. Nearly every college campus is dominated by liberal individuals and their policies. Do we find those campuses to be places where agreeable liberals co-exist well with conservatives ? Of course not. What we find instead is determined attempts by controlling liberals to stamp out conservative thought and expression. All across the nation liberals attempt, and sadly sometimes succeed, in preventing conservative guests from speaking. Conservative groups NEVER attempt to prevent liberals from expressing themselves on campus. Academia is supposedly Dr Douglas' domain, yet he seemingly overlooks how his 'agreeable' liberal colleagues continue to stifle conservatives.

If we can't accept biblical sourcing, then let's turn to Lord Acton's observation that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. This is a statement made purely about human nature from a secular perspective, yet it fits remarkably well with the conservative/Christian worldview. I don't think Dr Douglas' views fit observed reality in any way.

Joel
I really wasn't even thinking of those plays. I honestly don't think what I was saying is even close to the philosophy presented there. I was getting my inspiration elsewhere. I also believe that I wasn't clear about the points you made. Heavenly Father is the progenitor of the beliefs of free agency and as such let these decisions about life on earth be debated. Of course Lucifer rebelled and I am glad you pointed this out. There is nothing like wrath of someone who is evil when they are rejected. Don't we see that kind of attack every day against those of faith who have fallen a little short and then keep trying to move forward as Mike Adams pointed out?

Unfortunately, I wonder if the point I was trying to make wasn't clear. I see liberalism, the taking of people choice's away from them, as a direct descendent of Lucifer's plan. Looks good on paper. I would love to guarantee that all my children turn out good, but unfortunately I cannot. They have choices. They also have the opportunity to make a life for themselves that is better than anything that could be imagined in a society that prohibits those opportunities.



Douglas
I hope you are being sarcastic/ironic. Quit trying to prove the liberals point by posting this way. A conservative welcomes people of all genders and races.

Two good perspectives
ADAMS: "The one who does not even believe what he says is the hypocrite." The hypocrite must be a liar. The one who falls short of his stated ideals is knows and says what is right, but is 'a sinner.'

ADAMS: "No one will put forth his best effort if his outcome (mediocrity) has been determined in advance." This is the first time I've ever seen this written this particular way. I've always been just a bit stumped in how to argue this point. People on the left often argue that the talented/driven person will keep working hard, even if most of his earning are taken from him by the tax code, etc. because achievement and accolades are still available. But, as society increasingly demonizes the successful and the productive, and as we try to level outcomes via the left's ideals of radical egalitarianism, fewer motivations will remain.

Well written but chilling, Dr. Adams.

JM051
But is he a far left radical? Of course, not and that is exact why he is a threat. JM051

======================================

Wrong Obama is a far left social radical that has been forced to the middle because reality has required it.

Proving once again Bush was right all along, on many issues such as tax cuts, troop surges, wire taps, and not tearing down America with "truth commissions" which are nothing more than witch hunts.


BTW -- the stimulus was something most on the left and right opposed. First with Bush then with Obama. This topic alone is what united reasonable democrats and republicans, at the TEA parties.

You made one mistake...
with your "spreading the grades around" analogy. Obama will not be so tranparent by showong that the higher grades need to be lowered. He would simply re-define the definition of what it takes to get an A so that more people can recive an A. The reasoning will be that the current defninition isn't "inclusive" enough and thus needs to be changed to be "fair." Now, the people getting an F, D, and C will get A's. People with B's won't get help because they are already doing well enough and don't need help and the people with A's will be demonized and punished with C's. Thus, more people will get A's so liberals can congratulate themselves for improving the standards of education!

Although the method will be slightly different than what you described, the end result of lowering the overall quality of work will be the same. I think its important to illustrate how the liberal tactic of changing the definition of words is used to soften the public's perception/awareness of how wrong thier ideas are and the disasterous results that will follow.

Liberal more agreeable-Reality Check
Liberal are tolerant and agreeable, welcome to fantasy island. Liberals are only happy when they are imposing their will on others.

Does Peris Hilton look happy?
Does Al Gore look happy?


the one thing uniting all conservatives
is the smallest possible government, especially the fed gov. Back to the Constitution as written, with amendments. Judges need to preserve the original meaning (not intent, which is too subjective.) Don't like it? Amend it, as we did with blacks and women. This includes abortion, which was wrongfully stolen from the states by dictator authoriarian )to go back to 'dr.' Douglas) scotus. =liberal "we know better than you."

Ultra conservatives like me are not thrilled with capitalism, except for the fact that it is better than any other system tried.

Neo-cons are just 60 liberals, who got mugged by reality, saw the decay of our culture since then.

Regarding the military, true conservatives (social/religious) are for a strong defense, especially against the murderous jihadist who are certainly out to get us--read their words. But we are not for a strong offense, like many empire building neo-cons.

Most of the time, I agree with Mike
But here I gotta quibble a little with this point:

"This tragic view of human nature sees man as selfish and hedonistic by design."

The Christian view of human nature is that man was created in the image of God. The Adam who walked the garden of Eden was perfect in every way and was without sin. Adam was not just good He fell. He fell and became depraved.

So the Christian view of human nature is that human beings are inclined to sin, much as Mike says, but there is a remnant of the nature of God in them that tells them what is right and what is wrong. The Law of God is written on their hearts and the human conscience will be used either to accuse or excuse the person. There is not a human being alive that does not compare his thoughts, words, and deeds to those around him as being better or worse than them.

While tragically marred, we are each not as evil as we could be, but we have become sinners by nature and in need of a redeemer.

Here's the other question. How do redeemed people treat others who are still in their sins? Surely, there is a necessity for justice and punishment. But there is just as surely room for discretion, grace and mercy when dealing with others who like us, are fallen sinners.

paranoid...
"What a fantastic article.
Very insightful and profound.

As a liberal, I find his generalization essentially true - I consider humans to be good at their core, and believe they are twisted into evil deeds by institutions (or individuals) which usurp and hoard resources."

Nice to see a lib give someone they disagree with credit. However, you then shift gears abruptly and move into the M.O. of a card-carrying lib - the wont to blame it's actions on other people/events. So someone decides to commit a crime and automatically it's society's fault, in every case? Why?

"But on a larger scale, the unequal distribution of resources to the point of endless gluttony for the extreme minority in the face of simultaneous poverty for the vast majority has led to violent and criminal outcomes."

More lib excuses. This so-called "distribution" files in the face of our core values as a nation, and simply isn't how it works in the real world. There's no magical "wizard" who just distributes resources as he/she sees fit. Many wealthy have worked VERY HARD, and many still started from nothing. Their "luck", as you would call it, is for the most part, the residue of design. Are there those out there who lucked-into wealth and endless resources? Absolutely...but by and large, if you follow the bloodlines of that luck, you will find someone along the line who struggled and sacrificed and worked hard to make that wealth available.

(cont'd)

paranoid pt. 2...
(cont'd)
You bring to light yet another classic lib complaint - and a major difference between libs and cons that Mike doesn't cite: cons realize that they're not going to be simply handed the pot of gold...there's no free lunch, and you have to earn your way. Libs expect everything to be handed to them, so it's all "fair". They also believe that everyone who owns resources simply hoardes them and doesn't deserve them. BULL. Many have EARNED said wealth. And you think they should just willy-nilly, start redistributing it all over the place? Again - classic - yet tragic.

"IMHO, the myth of original sin functioned to bind populations to the religious orders that offered the only palliative: often a ticket to heaven purchased at the price of sacrificing the body to the army of god."

Once again - there's no free lunch. Yes, you must believe and follow God in order to realize his kingdom...your problem with this would be???

"In short, I believe this myth itself, the belief that all men are evil and must be treated as such first and foremost, is in fact the CAUSE of the evil behavior."

I think you are grossly missing the point. It's not that all men are to be TREATED as evil first and foremost, it's the recognition that we have this basic imperfection from day one, and you have a choice - how will you move on from there? What kind of person will you be? Will you allow your original sin to define your existance, or will you choose a different path altogether?

Yet again, it's the liberal's mantra - it's always someone ELSE'S fault, never EVER your own.

paranoid pt. 3...
(damn 2000 character limit!...)

"If you kick a dog as you pass, he will surely bite you. Is it fair to say that is an evil dog?"

Straw-man argument at best, a simply bad analogy at worst. You are speaking of self-defense. Of COURSE if someone strikes you, you will defend yourself. However, to strike at someone because you believe they've done you wrong (but there's no concrete evidence to back this up, just your lame perceptions), is an immature mindset.

Conflict of Visions
Mike's artical is a great summary of that book written by Thomas Sowell. It presents the fundamental contrasts of ideas between left and right. It's an academic read but well worth the time.

Adams thinks he know the difference
This felow is as full of bologna as can be! He still does not see, that because of so little difference if any between the two, it is, that George W. and he, Admas', with all his cronies ended up handing to Obama the worts womit ever!

Lets bring on board the Founding Fathers and see what they have to say to this stupidity written by a one who calls himself a conservative!

George Washington: "Overgrown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty and are to be regarded as particularly hostitle to Republican liberty".

George Washington: "No pecuniary consideration is more urgent than the regular redemption and discharge of the public debt; on none can delay be more injurious or an economy of time more valuable".

James Madison: "Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none".

James Madison: "The principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, in the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale".

Of a more recent veture: "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, from those who are cold and not clothed". By General and Dwight D. Eisenhower

Yes, if the Founding Fathers were to rise and within Admas' conclusion as to the defference between liberals and conservatives, and as present America is now also a fullyfledged Empire, whihc Adams supports, they would be arrested immediatly and send to Guantanamo!

Yes, I voted for Ron Paul as a legal immigrant of 53+ and truly seeing the difference between liberals and conservatives.

Remember when?

Remember when, America had Presidents that would NOT 'Bow and Scrape' to the Enemies of America?

Remember when, America had Presidents that thought America was a 'Great Nation' and did NOT apologize to the World and our Enemies for being a 'Great Nation'?

Remember when, America had Presidents that were willing to do whatever it took to protect our Military and save Soldiers lives - like Harry Truman, who stopped a War with Nuclear Weapons, instead of placing Soldiers in jeopardy by exposing their methods to the Enemy?

Remember when, America had Presidents that demanded that our enemies NOT arm Cuba with missiles, instead of sending $90 million to the enemies of America like HAMAS?

Remember when, America had Presidents that Demanded to our enemies, 'Mr Gorbachev Tear Down that Wall', instead of arming Lebanon with tanks and arms?

Remember when, America had Presidents that put their lives and fortunes at risk for the Freedom of Citizens, instead of putting the Citizens lives and fortunes at risk, in order to implement the 'Bondage of Socialism?

Remember when, America had Presidents that were Statesmen, instead of a 'Punk'?

Remember When?

JO
NO one knows what is in Obama's heart. But we do know what he is doing as President and it is certainly not radical. Like Ronald Reagan, Omama is a pragmatist and that is why he will be successful.

As to GWB, of course, his policies were not as bad or evil as the far left presented them. But they were certainly not good and they have left Obama with some difficult choices including seeing somethings throught to the end bacause at this point given the mess that was left behind forward is the more prudent course. Obama is not an idelogue he is a thinker and is open to hearing suggestions from the right. Unlike Bush who lead with his gut. Omama does not feel threatened by ideas that conflict with his own prior views and he has shown that he can listen and adjust in response to new information.

That does not mean he is going to become a conservative, but it does mean he will listen to his generals and he will admit he is was wrong. That alone makes him a ten times better leader than GWB who say the world in simplistic black and white terms. His speech at Notre Dame was both brave and brilliant.

I cannot imagine GWB or Cheney ever being willing to even go into the lion's dens like that and to communicate a message that both acknowledges that on a matter like abortion the differences may be irreconcilable, but there is still room for some common ground.

Yes, Obama believes that government can be a force for good, he believes that what makes us alike is more important than what makes us different.

Original sin?
I'm a teacher, and in discussing this idea with my students, we agree that children never have to be taught to misbehave. They just DO. Children have to be taught to do right.

At our core, we are selfish creatures. We do everything, even seemingly selfless things, from a self-centered motives. Anybody want to argue that one?

To the Christian, a self-centered life is not a Christ-centered life, and is therefore sin. We are born with the desire to please self at all costs...that which places self above God is sin.

tiveJMartin
tActually not true. That is the Rhetoric but in reality conservatives are just as much about government as liberals. You see you cannot judge conservatives by what they say but only by what they do when the get into power. The record is clear, conservatives spend. They may not have the same spending pattern as liberals but they know how to spend just the same. And social conservatives are all about government involvement in your life. Nothing could be mroe intrusive than having schools select a pray based upon majority standards in the community. It is the height of government intrusion and influence on children. Seperation of church and state is the ultimate expression of limited government.

JMO
He is spending us into oblivion, he has confiscated control of GM and has apologized to people he hasnt even offended yet. The sad part is we have few REAL conservatives left. obambi is no free market president and he believes in government expansion the like of we we have never seen in our life times. He may be a threat but its because he's irratic in his decision making. He appears to be making decisions on the fly without any real plan.

JMO51 says:
"No one knows what is in Obama's heart"


You will know them by their fruits" - Jesus

Mike
I can't argue with any of your points. It is a great article and you summed up the differences in conservative and liberal views very well. It should be crystal clear to any one who reads your views which thought process makes complete sense. I guess I should end with CONSERVATIVE!

Republicans are not always conservatives
A poster criticized conservatives for spending like liberals. I don't think so. I think liberal and moderate Republicans spent like liberals, which is one reason a disenchanted conservative base didn't get behind their rather liberal candidate full strength. When Republicans run a Reagan, they win. When they run a McCain, they lose. Republicans richly deserved to lose the last election, not because they were so conservative, but because they weren't. I hope that is the lesson they learn.

LeishaC
We are certainly selfish and imperfect creatures. But we are also so capable of such selflessness and personal sacrifice in the cause of what is good and just. This is the paradox and perhaps the best arguement for the soul.

There does not seem to be any evolutionary advantage to caring for your fellow man. You know you can teach two children the same lessons and one will use the knowledge for good and the other for evil. Even two children raised by the same parents may take totally different paths in life.

Being good seems to be a combination of basic nature and circumstances. Lots of people rise above their awful circumstances and then their are those for which so much is given and they give nothing back in return.

Chuck
I totally agree with you. Obama will ultimately be judged by what he does or fails to do.

That is why you cannot judge Republicans by their talk about smaller government you have to look at their record when in power.

JO -Reality Check
Obama no affair of going into the lion's den? Then why did he affoid Fox News for most of the primmary?

Obama not a radical?

Government taking over the Auto and Bank Industry is not radical?

Cap and Trade not Radical?

Obama is putting government into every accept of our life.

What is radical about that?

More Science and Less Ideology Please
"The conservative sees man as born in a broken state. This tragic view of human nature sees man as selfish and hedonistic by design. Given his nature, it is no wonder a man chooses crime."

And so we see why Adams is a terrible criminologist. He did not pay attention in his sociology and anthropology classes. He has not read the scholarly work in the evolution of human society.

He substitutes for fact the Hobbesian myth of man in a state of nature. Hobbes didn't have social science. He was speculating. We don't have to. We know what happened.

Human beings emerged in democratic egalitarian societies. History and prehistory show that humans are not born selfish and hedonistic. They aren't born anything. They are socialized to be what they are. If they are socialized in a selfish social order, the type conservatives find praiseworthy (except, of course, in its excesses, which they cowardly blame on liberals) then they will be selfish and hedonistic. If they are on the other hand socialized in a society that operates on the basis of compassion and sympathy, then the individuals will be sharing and caring.

Humans don't need the fear of a god or gods or demons and devils to be good. They need a society that is focused on human needs and not on personal greed.

Human nature is an oxymoron because what is human is learned. Homo sapiens are not human outside of society. Adams needs to read more science and write less ideology.

Original Sin
Dr. Adams presents a good case in his contrast of liberal vs. conservative. Some of the posters have explanded on it very well. As usual some of the liberal posters have musunderstood or misrepresented human nature.

It is not a mistake to assume that people are born with a sinful, selfish, evil, human nature. This is not to say that everyone is or will perform acts as bad as an Adolf Hitler or a Timothy McVeigh. It just means that all have the possibility in them.

We Christians believe that mankind has this nature called original sin passed down from generation to generation and that Jesus Christ provided the solution. But even non-believers would be hard pressed to deny that young children don't need to be taught to do bad. It comes naturally.

Of course upbringing and environment count for a lot but the nature is still there. I can deny the obvious till Doomsday(oops, apologies to non-believers in such)but denial of truth gets you nowhere.

One of the posters commented that if human nature is evil and there is no God the result can be hedonism, suicide or denial. I will offer a fourth result: left-wing dictatorship.

"We won so shut up, sit down, and do as we say".

"We know our way didn't work before but that was only because WE weren't in charge. We'll get it right this time".

"Yes we control the White House and Congress but we want to operate in a spirit of bipartisanship". For how that works see quote #1 above.

This was Mike Adam's point. The liberals' way has been tried before and never works over the longhaul. Wishing all you want won't make it so.

Robert
The problem with your logic is that the conservative of conservative Republicans were the biggest spenders. Take Ted Stevens no one was redder and yet he was the worst pork barrel spender. The whole Alabama, Mississip, Lousiana deep south is awash in goverment programs, from Nasa to military contracts to road projects and the like.

Every one of these states takes more back in Federal money then then they send. You could call them the welfare recepients of the Federal Government.


Theory OUT-dated?
A 19th century theory, one pedantic commentator writes. It began with Augustine, the strident Will from CA wrote.

The theory (truth) about human nature is ancient wisdom, "The Lord saw... that every inclination of the thoughts of man's heart was only evil all the time."

To the Christian commentators, I too wish everyone knew the hope I have in Christ, but that's not germane to this discussion. Non-Christians make wonderful citizens and leaders, providing they are wise.

If more had Mike Adam's chutzba to look reality in the face and acknowledge the ancient wisdom that human nature is BY NATURE warped, we would have elected leaders who were wise enough to govern accordingly.

An insightful article touching the very kernel of the debate.

Barack Obama's God Given Talents

Barack Obama was born with the God given talents, to be a Great President in a World of Darkness.

Like all Humans, Barack Obama had a choice to make - use his talents for good and spread 'Light' amidst the darkness or help spread even more 'Darkness'.

Barack Obama 'Chose' the dark side of 'Socialism' and bondage of the 'Human Soul', instead of Light and the freedom of the 'Human Soul'.

What sadness that 'Choice Will Bring'.

JMO51
The chief reason why the southern red states get more government money is that they have a large concentration of military bases.

Responsibility is at core
The difference between the two is in their attitude toward personal responsibility-conservatives believe in it, liberals don't. Simple as that. Just look at any issue on which they disagree-abortion, death penalty, welfare, whatever-conservatives believe that we are each responsible for ourselves and for the consequences of our actions, liberals always want to make excuses and enact "safety nets" for the lazy the incompetent and the foolish. Religion, per se, doesn't have anything to do with it.

JMO51 says:
"That is why you cannot judge Republicans by their talk about smaller government you have to look at their record when in power."

True enough. Hypocrisy is the tribute vice pays to virtue.

However, what's the Democrats' excuse?

JMO51 says:
"... Obama will ultimately be judged by what he does or fails to do."

No, he's already demonstrated where his heart is at. Only those in denial or his accomplices would argue otherwise.

Progressives are upside down
They call good evil and evil good.
So where is OBAMA leading us? Or should I say where is the teleprompter leading us?

Unbelievers either
grope in the dark looking for Truth or they sneer when they here it. God is near and can be known at any given moment. It's a choice. Acts17.

Retired Geek
when a person provides for his own family that is greed. The World According to OBAMA.

The 5,000 year leap. Skousen
George Washington----There is a rank due to the United States among nations, which will be withheld, if not absolutely lost, by the reputation of weakness. If we desire to avoid insult, we must be able to repel it; if we desire to secure PEACE, one of the most powerful instruments of our rising prosperity, IT MUST BE KNOWN THAT WE ARE AT ALL TIMES READY FOR WAR.

Samuel Adams
It is the greatest absurdity to suppose it would be in the power of one, or any number of men, at the entering into society, to renounce their essential natural rights, or the means of preserving those rights; when the grand end of civil government, from the very nature of its institution, is for the support, protection, and defense of those every rights; the principal of which are life, liberty and property. If men, through fear, fraud, or mistake, should in terms renounce or give up any essential natural right, the the eternal law of reason and the grand end of society would absolutely vacate such renunciation. The right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of man to alienate this gift and voluntarily become a slave.

Exception to the Rule
I apologize if someone already mentioned this; I admit I have not read all of the comments.

In the summation of the conservative vs liberal stance on crime & punishment, I would like to point out the exception to the conservative's "punish the criminal" stance. Well, maybe not an exception so much as a footnote. Because of the conservative's emphasis on religion & morals, programs like Prison Fellowship Ministries' (www.pfm.org) InnerChange Freedom Initiative geared toward reducing recidivism rates THROUGH Christian conversion. At a glance, IFI might look like a social program to "treat" the "other victim" of the crime, aka "the criminal"; however, on closer evaluation, we see that IFI works because of those core conservative beliefs: we are all born into brokenness, and it is through religion/morals/reason that we can overcome that brokenness.

I just don't want the conservative belief in "punishing the criminal" to be seen as "lock 'em up for good." The punishment must suit the crime, and through a change of heart, the criminal can find redemption.


Ben Franklin
"There is much truth in the Italian saying make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you."

Our people certainly ought to do more for themselves. It is absurd, the pretending to be lovers of liberty while they grudge paying for the defense of it.

The mindset difference:
Conservatives let their intellect develop their emotions. Liberals let their emotions dictate their intellect.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

The language and the people

I have talked to thousands of Conservatives and Liberals, and I believe the problem, as in most cases like this, is the language.

Words have meanings and different people think different things when they hear a word.

The bottom line, in my experience, most every one wants a country where people are happy, and have available of those things that make them happy. And remember, what makes one person happy, does not always supply happiness to the next person.

So I guess it is not only language, but people, who cause all the problems.

I have never heard of a want or need of people on both sides of the chasm, that all do not want made available. The difference is how it is obtained. Usually the question is, was the “need” given or worked for.

I have visited Sweden an Denmark, and can see those countries “work.” I have talked to hundreds while visiting there, and while the average man on the street or in the sauna wants some change in their Government, they are as happy as anyone I have met in the World, with how their country is run.

One day at lunch in the Grand Hotel in Stockholm, a wealthy looking man recognized us as tourists, and came to our table and said, ”In America you have Johnny Cash, Bob Hope, and President Reagan. In Sweden we have no cash, no hope, and Parliament.”


will's assertions at 12:45 AM
will,

contrary to your assertion regarding what the Jewish people believe regarding the human condition, one of their prophets (Jeremiah) made this statement:

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; who can know it?"

two other times in the Old Testament (written by Jews inspired by God Himself), state TWICE that "there is not one who does good, NO NOT ONE"

Mike, how can liberals prove u wrong?
There has never been a successful socialist society in the history of planet earth. Nor communist, fascist, etc etc for that matter. The closest thing to it is Sweden, which has the population of a rural American town.

good article.

Reason
One of the biggest reasons we do not have a decent government and have such schmuks in Washinton is that they have learned that they can vote themselvs raises, and that the rest of the county have become complacent.
If we were to inact strict term limits,
Limit the pay to just $1000.00 over what the indivegual income is for the state that they are from.
limit the health care to what the American tax payer has.
And do away with the life long pay chk. and automatic raises along with life long health care.
Limit the amount of donations.
Then we might stand a good chance of gettin people who realy care about this country and its people..

Chuck
Dems have a different view of government. They want one that is efficient and effective not necessarily smaller. They want to see good value for the tax dollars so they don't reflexively believe it is always best to lower taxes.

Whats more ethical. Tax and Spend or Spend and Borrow?

Leftist Authoritarians
Lenin
Stalin
Ho Chi Minh
Chaiman Mao
Pol Pot
Hitler
Khruschev
et al

Matt
The United States is a highly successful country and by wingnut standards it is already socialist. We have welfare, Farm Subsidies, Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, the VA, Funding for the arts, National Parks, etc. All of these things are considered socialist to hear the rants of Rush, Hannity and their fellow wingnuts and a majority of Americans want it that way.

So the answer is the good ole USA. Now getting rid of these things would be change but it is not the kind of change the vast majority of Americans want.

We have been a mixed economy since the New Deal and ironically the same period corresponds with the ascendence of American as a superpower.


JMO
Do you and the dems thing we currently get good value for our tax dollar? If yes, then why do we need to raise taxes and if no why would giving the government more money make them any more effective or efficient? Tell me why we need depts of agriculture, commerce, transportation, education or homeland security! How much would be availaible for other things if we eliminated just those depts?

reply to wwsword
It's not going to happen. Adams will n ever read those books and clearly learned little from his professional training. The reason for this is that for him conservatism absolutely requires religion. I happen to think that he's correct about this. Genuine conservatism is impossible apart from a belief in religion.

I think this connection is so strong that I doubt the possibility of a truly religious person being anything but a conservative. I know perfectly well that there are libertarians who think of themselves as conservative (at least to some extent) who are not religious, but they are in error about their conservatism.

Liberals, at bottom, cannot believe in religion, and conservatives must believe in it. I used to consider myself both a Christian and a liberal, but after having read TH for a couple of years I have realized that conservatism and religion are virtually synonymous, and that, however unhappy I might be with it, my liberalism makes me non-religious.

Paranoidmystic
Of course the dog is not evil, it's conservative. A liberal dog would never bite the one who kicks it, but instead say thank you and come back for more.

N
Let us not forget the Dept. of energy. inacted 30 some years ago to develop ways to curb Americas dependence upon forgin oil.
A yearly budget of 24.2 billion dollars and we are still importing oil... More than pst time for them to go.....

n
Actually, I think that some of the things the govern does are quite good and others are not as necessary. The problem is that my views might be quite different from someone else's views. Maybe Bobby Jindal thinks a valcano warning system is wasteful. But then again someone is North Dekota might just question why it should be a federal responsibility to have a hurricane warning system or to pay for fixing homes on the gulf coast when you know they are only gonna get destroyed again.

I think that NASA is worth every penny, someone else thinks we should spend that money building housing for the poor.

The old adage was guns vs. Butter. With Conservatives willing to spend anything on defense and Liberals wanting only social programs. That's way to simplistic. A liberal with a military contractor in his district instantly becomes a hawk. Same for conservatives when it come to things the people in their district want. Conservatives from Farm states are all about the keeping the aid and the special tax rules for farmers.

n
I noticed you didn't put FEMA on your list of useless departments. Maybe cause a floridan you are hopin they will save your sorry butt if a hurricane comes your way.


Mike Adams
Thank you for putting this on (online) paper!

JMO
I live in FL BUT not in a flood zone. I am almost 20 miles from the coast of the Gulf of Mexico BUT I have no problem dropping FEMA. Lets get rid of NASA. Dont confuse me with a lib who is inconsistent in their thinking. Dont build a house on the ocean and you wont have to worry about hurricanes. Your pursuing a bad path with that arguement JMO believe me!

The answer to where the money gets spent is in the Constitution. It is the PRIMARY function of the government to protect the citizenry not provide its citizenry with every necessity of life.


JMO
Back to FEMA for a minute. Someone lives in a city BELOW sea level and its kept dry by man made dams and levees and a cat 5 hurricane is coming with a storm surge higher then your city is underwater AND you are warned to get out of there but do not do it and suddenly its FEMA's fault or the governments fault you are flooded?????? Its a regional problem that should have been addressed by the people of louisianna and if the people of louisianna werent forced to support a federal system with funds they could have saved for their own recovery they could have more quickly and efficiently delt with the problem.

JMO51

I find it difficult to believe that thousands of federal programs spending billions of taxpayer funds on such things as "studies" on Chinese prostitutes and cowflaps or digital TV coupons,

Natural Law vs the Theoretical
As a conservative, I don't see myself or others of my ilk as "hedonistic" and "selfish". From the natural order of things, I am self-serving, yes, but also charitable and, in a healthy and ethical way, competitive and in unapologetically in pursuit of happiness for myself and my loved ones. I strive to see things as they really are and to deal with them fairly and objectively. I can't imagine living in any other way. Theory is interesting, but reality, though sometimes difficult to bear, is a world in which I find reason, comfort and purpose. I think America would be in a better place today were the majority to share this view.

DR. Adams
Great column. I agree, the lib will always need a victim. They will forever tell you how bad socity is, but always exscuess themselves. Take raceism. We are told by libs all the time how racist we are, but ask them if they are included, and you will get an ear full. The lib will always tell you how tolerent they are, untill it comes to your free speach. Look at collage campuses. Thanks again Dr. Adams, and keep up the good work.
Kirk

Dr. Douglas of Oregon
I don't know what you're a "Doctor" of, but someone needs to remind us all that half of all "Doctors" graduated in the lower 50% of their class. That's about as moronic a set of comments as I've read here. For what it's worth, "Dr. Douglas" is saying that conservatives are racist or "classist" and "disagreeable." Presumeably he also believes that liberals are "inclusive" and "agreeable." Both views are nonsense. Conservatives actually BELIEVE what the Constitution said when it was written and understand that the authoritarianism of the left is destructive human beings' yearning for liberty and to better themselves and their families. Those who self-identify as "liberals" are anything BUT the classic definition of liberalism. A liberal, in the classic sense, would be dismissive of authoritarianism, in favor of individuality and individual freedom and would believe in the precept that "all men are created equal." Instead, modern "liberals" seek to impose THEIR concept of "good" as "evil" and "evil" as "good" on everyone around them, display contempt for racial and ethnic minorities, while giving lip service only to "inclusiveness" and individuality. They seek to shut down ANY opposing point of view by any means available.

If you don't believe that humans are born selfish and acquisitive, try and take away the favorite toy of a 1-year-old baby sometime. You'll be able to DO it, of course, but your ears and nerves will pay a price for doing so.

Steven
Yes thanks. The dept of energy. When was the last time we heard anything from the dept of energy? Where are their plans for "green" power? You would think after30 yrs they would have come up with something, cars with windmills on them or solar powered bicycles.... S O M E T H I N G.

n
I never meant to suggest that you personally were inconsistent. And yes there are conservatives who talk the talk and walk the but walk. But a lot don't.

They talk about smaller government but when they get in trouble or have needs they turn quite liberal.

Like Rush trying every ACLU trick on the book when he was caught doctor shopping for his fix. Or Judge Bork suing the Yale Club for negligence when he tripped and fell walking up some stairs at a speaking event. No question that Judge Bork would have ruled against citizen Bork.

But Liberals are the same way like Kennedy fighting against a wind farm that would have been looked the the size of a finger nail from shore. Or limosine liberals who are all in favor of building homeless shelters until they want to build one in their back yard.


n
I go back to what I said before the gulf coast is in a net deficit with the Feds.

More money flows to the region than they pay in taxes. New Yorker on the other hand pays much more than it they get back.

Do you know which state gets the most money in relation to what they pay. Its Sara Palin land Alaska.


JMO51

I find it difficult to believe that thousands of federal programs spending billions of taxpayer funds on such things as "studies" on Chinese prostitutes, sexual habits of gays and transexuals and cowflap utilization, or paying for digital TV coupons, neighborhood "stabalization activities," or weatherization assistance programs is either constitutional or fiscally responsible.

The feds are now talking about bailing out California, Massachusetts, Michigan, New York and other liberal states, thus spending taxpayer money from one state to pay for the sins of another state. Where does it end?

When do we quit rewarding fiscal irresponsibility with taxpayer money?

JMO
So we agree that people seek out things for their own best interest. Thats not good or bad its just the way it is. The government therefore can not and will never please everyone all the time. So the government should be limited to the powers granted it by the Constitution. Individuals are in the BEST position to decide whats best for them, the government needs to get out of their way and let them do it.

JMO
Exactly the problem!!!! Lets states decide what they need to be prepared for. The fed should only provide protection necessary to allow the states to function, period!

JMO
Yes, we are capable of selfless acts, but even those have a core selfish motive...for glory, recognition, heroism, or perhaps to protect or serve. You can't deny that when we do seemingly selfless acts, we get something out of it for ourselves. I'm a teacher, don't make much money, and give the better portion of my life to building into my students. Some see that as selfless, but I can't deny the gratification I get from building lifelong relationships with them. It doesn't make it bad or wrong, but let's be honest about our motives.

Sure, we have a soul, and any goodness therein is, as someone else said, the remnant of being made in God's image. However, sin entered the world, and all those born after are born in sin. Sure, different people choose different paths. But the heart of Christianity is not in how "good" a person we are. The point I make is that in the eyes of God, any elevation of self over God is sin. We fall short of that goal on a daily basis, or at least I do, but that only reminds me how desperately I need a Savior to do what I cannot -- be justified in the sight of God.

Punishment Vs Reward
While Adams is correct that fear of punishment is essential to deterring crime, he forgot to mention the importance of rewarding good behaviour.

Fear is a difficult emotion to maintain, whereas hope can survive for decades. In order to discourage crime, and enourage good behaviour, it is essential that people be able to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

Many turn to crime because they do not see any benefit to good behaviour, and see honest hard work as being for "suckers". The Left feeds that mentality by re-enforcing the notion that people get rich by exploiting others.

Some people look at a successful man and are inspired to emulate them. Others choose to envy them. Criminals wonder what time that person won't be home.

Chuck
You mentioned that Jesus said "you will know them by their fruits". In relation to Obama, was that a reference to Barney Frank?

Conservative dictators
Is it possible for a conservative dictatorship to occur, given that conservatism is about limting the power of government in order to safeguard liberty and prevent a dictatorship?

Bob_C
Its just another example of the leftist libs desire for Keynesian economics. They dont get that if you have spent yourself into debt you cant spend your way out of debt.

Here is what you have to believe if you think Keysenian economics will work. Deficits come from spending money you dont have, so you have to believe that on one day spending money puts you into debt but the next day spending money gets you out of debt. What happens that suddenly makes spending money a way of paying off debt that was created from spending too much?

LeishaC
I have pondered the question is any act really selfless. In a sense the person who does the selfless act is fullfilling a need to do the right thing through sacrifice so its selfish.

Giving to charity makes you feel good so you do it for your good feelings. I am not comfortable with that view.

To me selfless is knowing the right thing to do and choosing to do it even if it comes at the expense of our own needs.

The fact that there is a level of satisfaction in that does not take away from the selflessness of the act.

JM051
But we do know what he is doing as President and it is certainly not radical.JM051

============================

Better late than never. :)

Obama is most certainly radical on social issues and his pledge to "fundamentally change" America.

Taking over private industry, firing CEO's, dictating the types of cars that will be produced, lending to banks then refusing repayment, and squandering tax payer dollars are very radical moves, not pragmatic moves.
(Yes, I was against TARP.)

Now foreign policy is another topic - he is wisely embracing the Bush doctrine. With the exception of torture/Gitmo slight of hand. Which seems to be his clever way of distracting liberals from his Bush like surges and collateral damage losses in Pakistan.


n
The Framers saw the government from the position of competing interests and sought to steady those interests with the balance of power. Even the congress was designed to take into account one man, one vote in the house and equality between states in the Senate.

Less government is an option of the people. But it cuts both ways less means less. I think for a lot of people including many who call themselves conservatives less means less you but hey don't touch my goodies. That why conservative rhetoric is all about cutting government spending not services.

The honest politician would be saying we need to cut government services. If you are old and sick take care of yourself. If you build in a hurricane zone expect no help. Call the police and expect to get a bill. Want to send you kids to school find a private one you can afford and pay for it.

Right now Republicans have an approval rating of about 20%. Start to promote that agenda and you would be lucky to hit 10%.

Jo
Tarp was proposed by the Bush Administration with Bipartsan support so if Obama is a radical so was Bush and the Republican Leadership.


Sure
I believe that your analysis is correct for the most part: conservatives espouse a negative view of human nature for the most part, where cooperation is rarely the norm and might makes right (see the realist school in international politics). However, you are not correct in saying that liberals never explain how society "corrupts" the individuals. If conservative politics have an intellectual father in Hobbes, liberals are closer to Rousseau. I suggest you crack him open because he has some insights into human relationships that you obviously have not read.

That being said, the conservative mind in my opinion at least, has a tendency to oversimplify issues, see 8 years of GW's administration. I don't think that most liberals are suggesting that we should waive the white flag, surrender and hope to sing peace songs with rogue states and terrorist groups. No, far from it. Your rant on the UN is the typical conservative rubbish. Yes, the organization is flawed but it is so because it was purposely designed to be flawed. Moreover, you misunderstand its goal -- it provides a forum first and foremost. Liberals often lack a healthy dose of skepticism when it comes to human beings, I will give you that. But conseratives are on the other extreme of the spectrum. Either way, please try to inform yourself about the other side's belief system before you make blanket assertions such as "the liberals never fully explain this or that." Yes, we do, you just don't listen. You can disagree, but at least present the argument honestly and then counter it.

Corporate Bailouts as Radical
Jo says that Obama is a radical for bailout out the auto makers. but lets look at two famous corporate bailouts by the Federal Government Lockeed in 1971 (Nixon Administration) and Chrysler Bailouts (Nixon Administration)

One of the biggest advocates of the lockeed bailout was Republican John Tower of Texas, rather a conservative guy.

Then you have right after 911 the airlines coming forward asking for federal help that was the Bush Administration and the Republican Congress.

I am not waying I agree with every detail of Obama's plan to save Detroit Auto makers, but to call this radical is to admit that Nixon, Bush, John Tower, were all radical socialists.

Its time to stop swallowing the propaganda feed to you by Fox News and start reading a little history. Start with Lockeed and them look at what the Reagan Administration did with the S & L Crisis and then lets talk about what is and is not radical.




n

To put it in a nutcase shell, liberals fervently belive that you can spend your way out of deficits and borrow your way out of debt.

All other things being equal (which they won't with Obama holding the purse strings) within ten years, the interest alone on our debt will be over a trillion dollars a year.

Liberal/Conservative Differences
A conservative bases all his decisions on learned experience. I.e., if something didn't work last time, it won't work this time regardless of who tries it. You either try something else - or you keep what you have.

A liberal bases all his decisions on a abstract theory. I.e., this is usually a utopian idea that if everything is equal, everyone will live peacefully and be equal. Everyone is equal in all things. If something was tried once and didn't work, it was because of some failure of the person or persons trying it; it should work with the correct person in charge.

While there may be troubles with both ideas at times, I prefer the conservative way of thinking. It is safer.

JMO51
Jo was right; Obama is a radical for trying the bailouts - after they had already been tried and failed. The fact that he is doing the same thing the Republicans did does not mean he should do it; it means he should have checked to see if it worked (when it didn't) and should have tried something else.

Remember, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result.

Jam-O @ 12:53

Jam-O:
"Dems have a different view of government. They want one that is efficient and effective not necessarily smaller. They want to see good value for the tax dollars so they don't reflexively believe it is always best to lower taxes."

Hey Jam-O-
How's that no-fault
divorce from reality going?

JM051

Tarp was proposed by the Bush Administration with Bipartsan support so if Obama is a radical so was Bush and the Republican Leadership. JM051

--------------------

I agree - and I agree we shouldn't bailout airlines as well. It is not the job of government.

But let's be real, a POTUS dictating what kind of cars will be made, and who can pay back taxpayer dollars (or not), and has pledged to *fundamentally change America* is a tad radical by any political standard? Wouldn't you say?


JM051 @ 2:54pm
Some of us are opposed to government bailouts even when done by Republican presidents!

Just because an intervention seemed to work in the short run does not make it the right thing to do, or the effective one in the long run. Case in point: if Nixon fixed Chrysler, why is the company still going bankrupt? If Reagan fixed the banks, why are we having a financial crisis? (Lockheed is a defense contractor, so one could argue that it was legitimate for the government to help that company.) At best, these past government actions were delaying tactics; since the fundamental problems with these companies were not solved, the taxpayers' money was wasted just as it is being wasted on a massive scale under Chairman Obama.

On the silent wings.........
Hit the nail on the head! Children do NOT have to be "taught" or "abused" into selfishness; it is the very nature of the being. I have also NEVER seen a child who had to be taught how to lie; ask ANY 3 year old who broke the vase that used to be on the table and the answer will automatically be "not me". So we can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that all children are born selfish liars, and this is what liberals call good? No wonder Clinton and Obama were their choices for President! Two completely narcissistic, pathalogical liars. "Good" people according to libtards.

Libertarian angle
In the estimation of libertarians, the primary social evil is the initiation of force. In a civilized society, force may (in non-emergency situations) be used only in retaliation, and only against those who initiate its use. I've seen quibbles attack this formulation, but most seem easily handled.

All life is selfish at some level - every breath we take is selfish. There is obvious survival value in voluntary collective action and mutual aid, so such aid, especially emergency aid, is clearly in everyone's enlightened self-interest. It does not follow from this that aid should be coerced, especially as an ongoing, regular policy.

The debate about whether one is born good or bad seems pointless. The terms only have meaning when we are talking about volitional, rational beings. Newborns lack the rationality necessary for moral judgment. You might as well call the water in a pond good or evil depending on whether someone drinks it or drowns in it. Danger and evil are two different concepts.

Andrea
The Chrysler bailout was over thiry years ago and the government got back all its money with interest. The same with the S & L Crisis it worked out OK for the taxpayers. And Lockeed is still with us. The point is not whether these were wise decisions. I believe that Corporate bailouts are troubling and they are certainly not very popular with the far left either.

Only time will tell if these were sound decisions, you might be right about the bailouts being unwise. But that was not my point. These bailouts were used a evidence of Obama's Radical agenda. But if we look closely we find that he has been following the course taken by Republican President and not just any Republicans Nixon and Reagan. So if that makes you a radical then both Nixon and Reagan were Radicals and if want to really demogogue this "socialists".

Obama's actions in response to this economic crisis have been as mainstream as they come. Could it be that the right has shifted so far to the extreme right since Nixon and Reagan that their actions are seem as radical by this generation of conservatives. Something worth reflecting on before reflexively responding to my post.

Obama is a moderate mainstreamer more moderate than pelosi and much more in the middle than the far left green party types.


Jo
Actually, I don't think it is wise for the government to get involved in making internal decisions for Chryler or GM. One thing is for sure, if the banks were giving the money they would be dictating in much the same way as the Obama administation to protect their interests. But the government is not a bank so this is a troubling paradox. The banks who are in crisis won't lend, so the government to protect a vital industry steps in (with precident) and then acts to protect its interests which are intrusive. What a slippery and complex slope. The stuff worthy of debate in schools of management and government.

But radical - No.

Radical would be if the Obama administration attempted to take over a finacially sound company because it did not like its management philosophy. That would be radical.

Lets not forget that the auto makers came looking for handouts. and as I would say to any welfare queen, you take the check you follow the rules.

Still I think the Obama Administration overreached when it pushed the GM CEO out. But overreaching is not radical.

45caliber
Nixon did it - Not Radical
Reagan Did it Not Radical
Bush Did it with the airlines and the banks not Radical.

Obama did it after Bush did it. Proof of his radical socialist, marxist, Muslim, anti-americans, unamerican agenda.

DAH