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Wednesday, April 02, 2008
Michael Medved :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Wright Questions For Obama
by Michael Medved
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Barack Obama continues to face controversy over his association with Rev. Jeremiah Wright because his comments about the provocative pastor have been contradictory, evasive, misleading and unsatisfying. The issue will begin to dissipate only when the Senator gives better answers to better questions.

Here are some of the Wright (and right) questions for Obama to address:

1. You’ve recently suggested that Pastor Wright has already acknowledged that he spoke inappropriately from the pulpit, and this acknowledgment allowed you to continue as a member of his church. On ABC’s “The View” (March 28, 2008) you commented: “Had the Reverend not retired, and had he not acknowledged that what he had said had deeply offended people, and were inappropriate, and mischaracterized what I believe is the greatness of this country, for all its flaws, then I wouldn’t have felt comfortable staying at the church.” Since Wright’s made no public statements of apology or regret concerning his controversial sermons and articles, does your comment indicate that he’s apologized privately to you? Would you urge him to make a public apology or correction or clarification? If not, is it because you believe his misstatements weren’t serious enough to demand it?

2. You’ve repeatedly spoken of Wright’s “outrageous” or “offensive” remarks, but never specified which specific comments you had in mind. Where, precisely, did Wright go wrong?

3. Do you agree with Pastor Wright (and with many other leaders in the African-American community) that black people suffer disproportionately from drugs and AIDS because of a government conspiracy? If not the government, who is responsible for the vastly higher rates of HIV and serious drug abuse in the black community? Does it help empower the Black community to blame the government for self-destructive choices and behavior?

4. For at least ten years during your membership at Trinity United Church of Christ, official church policy emphasized a “Black Value System.” The Church website declared: “These Black Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered.” As the child of a bi-racial couple, and a candidate who promises to unify the country, did you ever feel uncomfortable by the insistent and prominent emphasis on “Black Values” and “Black Ethics” – rather than values and ethics that were American, universal, or even Christian? How would you characterize “black ethics” as different from the ethics that your white neighbors follow? What aspect of “black values” did you receive in your entirely white upbringing – raised by your WASP mother and grandparents? Would you feel at all uncomfortable if a potential running mate affiliated with a church that pledged undying loyalty to “white values”?

5. In the teaching of Reverend Wright and his adult education classes, as well as the Sunday school of his church, there’s a major emphasis on the Black identity of Jesus Christ. The stained glass windows at the church identify Jesus with the dark skin tone of sub-Saharan Africa. To your church, the racial identity of Jesus matters a great deal. Does it matter to you? Do you personally believe that Jesus was black?

6. If you don’t think he was black, have you done anything to correct the misimpression your little girls would have received in church?

7. If you think it’s true that Jesus was black, then you obviously believe that most Jews of First Century Judea also looked like today’s Africans. If that’s true, do you agree with Minister Farrakhan that Twenty-First Century Jews and Israelis are imposters and interlopers with no ancestral connection to the Holy Land, and that black Africans represent the true Israelites and Chosen People? Do you believe that your many Jewish supporters would feel comfortable with this religious vision?

8. You have commented elsewhere that you consider Hamas a terrorist organization (as does our government) and wouldn’t negotiate with these Islamic thugs and killers. In this context, are you comfortable with Reverend Wright featuring a pro-Hamas manifesto on “The Pastor’s Page” of the church newsletter (July 22,2007)? This anti-Israel diatribe was written by Hamas official Mousa Abu Marzook, an indicted terrorist conspirator currently believed to be a fugitive in Syria. Do you agree with Reverend Wright’s positive labeling of Marzook’s column as “A Fresh View of the Palestinian Struggle”? Do you also agree with Dr. Wright’s practice in the church bulletin (July 8, 2007) of using quotation marks to identify “the ‘state’ of Israel”?

9. Given your recognition that some of the statements and positions of Reverend Wright count as “offensive” and “outrageous,” aren’t you surprised that none of your fellow church members alerted you to those explosive declarations until recently? If you heard nothing about discomfort and indignation over Wright’s extremist views doesn’t it suggest that the entire church – not just its former pastor – is actually on the political and religious fringe?

10. When did you first become aware of the radical and anti-American views of your pastor? If you knew nothing about them, then why did you cancel plans for Wright to participate in your announcement of candidacy more than a year ago – in January, 2007?

11. On “The View” you suggested that people have received the wrong idea about Pastor Wright. “What you have seen is a snippet of a man,” you said. “Imagine if somebody compiled the five stupidest things you ever said and put them in a 30 second loop that was played every day for two weeks.” Obviously, Pastor Wright doesn’t agree that the now notorious sound bites are among the “five stupidest things he ever said” – otherwise, he wouldn’t have proudly sold DVD’s of such comments, and he would have promptly apologized for them. Have you explored your obvious divergence in viewpoint with Pastor Wright – explaining why you consider his remarks “stupid” and inquiring why he won’t acknowledge them as such?

12. You have said repeatedly that you are a “devout Christian,” and pray every day. How has your faith evolved – particularly regarding the Black Liberation Theology endorsed by Trinity – since you joined the church two decades ago? As President, would you continue to worship at Afro-Centric churches which promote this theology, and would you invite your pastor to participate in the Inauguration and other state occasions?

Questions like those listed above could help Obama come to terms with the core of the controversy he continues to face. The dispute involves far more than a few random, out-of-context by an eccentric clergyman. It centers, rather, on questions of world-view, of philosophy, of core values. The American people have a right to wonder whether the world-view and “black ethics” of a flamboyantly radical church reflect the personal philosophy of a potential president.

If not, then the long-term association of that candidate with the church in question raises profoundly disturbing questions about his authenticity and character.

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About The Author
Michael Medved's daily syndicated radio talk show reaches one of the largest national audiences every weekday between 3 and 6 PM, Eastern Time. Michael Medved is the author of eleven books, including the bestsellers What Really Happened to the Class of '65?, Hollywood vs. America, Right Turns and, most recently, The Ten Big Lies About America.
 
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WRIGHT CHURCH CROWD ENJOY BASHING WHITES
OBAMA FAILED THE LEADERSHIP TEST WHEN HE DID NOTHING TO INFLUENCE/CHANGE REV.,WRIGHTS ANTI-AMERICA, ANTI-WHITE HOSTILE PREACHNG. INSTEAD THE OBAMAS WITH DAUGHTERS, SAT IN SILENCE AB-SORBING HIS DIVISIVE, RADICAL RHETORIC. WHAT KIND OF JUDGMENT AND DISCRETION DOES THAT RE-VEAL ABOUT THE NEWCOMER WHO WANTS TO BE IN CHARGE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT JOB IN THE FREE WORLD?! SCARY, YES INDEED, EVEN MORE SCARY IS HIS BEGUILED FOLLOWERS DON'T CARE! WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THE STANDARDS WE EXPECT IN A PRESIDENT?. ITS OK FOR AN INEXPERIENCED, MYSTERY MAN TO "TALK" HIS WAY INTO OBTAINING OUR VOTES, MAY THE BEST PERSONALITY AND GIFT OF GAB WIN OVER REAL SUBSTANCE ETC., GOD HELP AMERICA. OBAMA, MAY I SUGGEST IF YOU HAVE TROUBLE SLEEPING YOU CAN GO BACK TO THE CHURCH YOU MUST HAVE BEEN "ASLEEP IN FOR 20 YEARS", SINCE YOU DIDN'T HEAR OR KNOW ANY BETTER! PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

BHO===The hits just keep on coming.
BHO is seriously damaged. He has Bitter-Gate, Arugala-Gate, Pastor-Gate, Tony Resko-Gate and Ahers-Gate to contend with. There's enough gates there to put him out to pasture and keep him there.

But there's more coming. Much more.

In October, Reverend Wrong has a book coming out.

October.

Less than a month before the election.

But despite all this, I am voting for Obama----just as soon as he walks on water.

deathstar
"'Conservative' means 'to conserve,' it means being against change. This seems to include being for anything that was in existence in 1955, and against anything that came after."

-- In the context of running the govt it means to preserve the institutions and concepts that work, and to be against change for the sake of change. Just as it is foolish to presume that preserving the status quo will solve all problems, it is EQUALLY foolish to presume that wide sweeping changes will solve all problems. Luckily for us there are plenty of politicians who come down on the side of preserving what works and only changing the things that prove to be truly unworkable.

The definition of 'conserve' is: to keep from being damaged, lost, or wasted. In the political arena this can mean keeping our republic a capitalist, free market, rule of law, non-socialist democracy. A noble endeavor, to be sure.

Regarding your stereotyping of conservative ideals (lost in the 50's): 1) It simply is not true; 2) It is intellectually dishonest to go on the assumption that all (or most) new and different ideas are going to be good ones. This is the same kind of thinking behind those who embrace independent films and music; but, just because they're trying new things doesn't mean that it all results in artistic greatness. Some of it is good and some of it sucks.

In 2000+ years of civilization we HAVE figured out a few things that, in the public arena where we interact with our fellow man, DO work ... and will continue to work. Some aspects of life change over time; some remain essentially the same.

Gestell
Gestell writes: Thursday, April, 03, 2008 10:19 AM
reply to Con4Fred
To say that there are NO racist conservatives is impossible; you couldn't possibly know this. It's lke saying there are NO religious liberals; you couldn't possibly know that either.
---------------------------------------

I never said that there are NO racist Conservatives. What I said was... that in my 51 years I have never met or known a racist Conservative.

A true Conservative cannot be racist if he/she truly believes in statements like "...all men are created equal."

And as far as my comment about Dems being racist, I have personally seen this throughout my life. I'm not sure if this translates over to liberals, but I know that liberal policies have hurt minorities while claiming to be helping them.


dmac wrote
"Intead, what we get is merely baiting from deathstar:
"And those Iraqis are SOOOOOOOO grateful!
Why, they invited us right in! Enjoying those flowers and candies, Con4fred?"


Gee, d, my comment was a response to a previous post by NY guy that said:

"And those Iraqis are SOOOOOOOO grateful!
Why, they invited us right in! Enjoying those flowers and candies, Con4fred? And the best part is, the war will pay for itself!

So it seems the conversation about Iraq was already going on and I was doing a take on another poster's comment.

They were so identical, I thought that anybody reading mine would be able to make the connection without my having to spell it out.

It's an experience known as "overestimating your adversaries".



How is it possible
to believe that Obama is an ardent Muslim and an ardent Christian? How dumb to you have to be to even say that?

Gestell is right - "Conservative" means "to conserve," it means being against change. This seems to include being for anything that was in existence in 1955, and against anything that came after.

The arguments against stem cells, global warming, African American presidents, Gay rights, etc., are the currency of TH. True, they are argued in rhetorical terms that don't confront the underlying ideologies of holding fast to the (usually romanticized, sentimentalized) past, but one can always predict what the conservative reaction to any issue will be just by asking, "How did people feel in 1950?"




Obama
Has anyone asked the question: Senatp, after you became aware of the incendiary comments by Rev. Wright, which you have said occurred when you began your campaign, why did you put Rev. Wright on an importatnt campaign committee and allow him to remain on such committee until ABC broke the story?

reply to Con4Fred
To say that there are NO racist conservatives is impossible; you couldn't possibly know this. It's lke saying there are NO religious liberals; you couldn't possibly know that either.

Just read lots of TH posts daily and you'll find some racist conservatives, just like you'll find Jew-hating conservatives. The practical question is: how many of these people are there?

I'll maake a quick case for the necessity of racism in conservatism. Conservatism is supposed to be about maintaining traditions and traditional values. These traditions and traditional values have to be about something; they have to have some substantive identity or they are mere fictions. Among the traditions of American society we may certainly identify racism. A consistent conservative should want to preserve at least some part of the traditional racism many (not all) Americans possessed in the past. This racism was reflection in both laws and customs until the legal basis for racial discrimination was removed. While powerful social pressures against racism as a matter of custom developed over time, this sort of racism has not disappeared. A conservative should want to conserve at least some aspects of racism.

How do you like that?

Questions for Obams
Revelations says Jesus feet were like burnt coals and his hair lambs wool. Sounds like he was a dark Jew.

Jim Carey and his Girl friend are haveing a March on Washington June 4, 08 for Autistic Parents and Grandparents to be heard.

Their Son became Autistic after he was vaccinated. She was on a panel with several doctors who were saying their is no proof that Vaccine causes autism. She was outraged, she cut them off, became dismissive when they spoke. She said they disrespected parents when the parents asked questions, disdained them on many occasions, saying don't you trust me. How can they trust you she raised the volume of her voice.

Parents think there is a conspiracy because drug companies make money off of vaccines, Dr. call them anti-vaccine. Dah, you've ruined my child's life.

What struck me about this show was the similarity in behavior of persons who are alienated, excluded, disrespected and told it is their fault, that they are crazy that there is no connection.

You may be criticizing the Rev for having a normal reaction to his circumstances.

Evil has no color-even animals know this
Dear “Reverend,”

If animals had a religion, the devil would look like a HUMAN (of any color).

The "sanctuary" of a church is supposed to be sanctified, set apart; holy. And "holy" means spiritually perfect or pure; untainted by evil or sin; sinless; saintly. Certainly not a place to yell God damn anyone. We are forbidden to curse another; and a curse sent forth underserved only comes back and rests on the head of the one that sent the curse. And the title "Reverend?" hmnnn...the bible says Jesus' followers are "slaves of Christ," and servants of the most High God. God doesn’t consider you or any other man or woman “reverend,” He said all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and that man's righteousness is but filthy rags to God, as in a menstrual rag. No man is "reverend."

Racial division based on color of skin is anti-survival. A house divided cannot stand, and swimming in a cesspool of memories of yesterday of crimes committed by ignorant white people in the South and in England won't get anyone anywhere.

Heck, even animals know this.

"Ask the animals and they will teach you"
-Job 12:7-9

Understanding Understanding
Do you go to a Synagogue? Do they promote Jewish religion, Jewish values and Jewish culture? Do they continually promote Christianity? Are there many non-Jews in attendance? Would the Jews consider themselves a separate group, both religiously and ethinically? Is anger or dissatisfaction ever expressed among Jews regarding anti-Semitism?

I would think of all people you might be able to understand Barrack's predicament. Granted, the case is more extreme than a religion and ethnicity that tries hard to protect itself from "established" America, but some of the feelings of anger and persecution exist in large doses in the Jewish culture.

mia
You might take your cue from Obama. We'll never get to understand each other if folks continue to presume to know the other side's "real reasons".

I don't think you will find too many conservatives that would be bold enough to assert that racism no longer exists. But where the divide is is how much does it contribute to social problems now. Conservatives do not see it as pervasive on either a personal or institutional level. They see the root of problems elsewhere. We're all for change, just not what the Sharpton's, Jackson's envision. We don't know what kind of change Obama envisions. hence our interest in his relationship with Wright.

Obama's positions on issues and policy that we do know about are so far left that conservatives would be focusing on those more, as well as his lack of experience, if the Wright issue did not exist. The middle name issue will die once the Clintons finally concede the nomination and stop putting it out there. That has been a democrat generated thing, as well as this Wright stuff, not conservatives (although it is kind of fun to watch the Clintons do their Dem opponents what they always accused Reps of doing).

Bryce
I believe you are right in that any division along racial lines will benefit McCain.

Howsomever;
Although we do have black people today who are qualified and probably would make a good President to lead the American people, Obama is not one of them.
MSM did not give us any good candidates to vote for.
They are all so bad it is hard to even pick one to vote against!

The Iraqi front of the war with Radical Islam?
This war was not of our choosing. It was forced upon us and surrender is not an option.
No peace treaty is possible.
We must fight it until we win or our people and culture will perish.
When will it end?
How will we know when it is over?
I doubt either of us will live long enough to see the answers to those questions.
I don't like this situation and I don't think you do either but our likes or dislikes won't change it much.

bryce
I would accept what you say if deathstar had interjected Iraq into the discussion on that basis. Intead, what we get is merely baiting from deathstar:
"And those Iraqis are SOOOOOOOO grateful!
Why, they invited us right in! Enjoying those flowers and candies, Con4fred?"

You, on the other hand, have raised it legitimately. But I think your conclusions are wrong. What Basra revealed is certainly open for interpretation. And Iraq as a civil war is hardly the only way to view the situation, and I think it is the least accurate. Since I do not see the situation in your light, and since there is plenty of discussion on the situation and appropriate approach to Iraq, I reject your conclusion that the Obama/Wright scrutiny is merely a distraction.

Obama & Pastor Wright
I think the real reason why this is even an issue is because people 1)don't want to acknowledge that racism still exists, because it means more change 2)Obama's church does not pass some people's litmus test of how a church should conduct itself 3)if the Wright issue did not exist, conservatives would still be talking about his middle name.

Con4fred...why Iraq?
Because events of the last couple of weeks change everything. Basra revealed the fantasy of the surge and its' supposed success. Iraq as the War On Terror is central to McCain's campaign. Whatever it may have been, Iraq is now a civil war, and the US is taking sides. On top of all that, the ultimate winners in Iraq are the Iranians.

Iraq matters in this discussion because it also reveals the Obama/Wright bruhaha for what it really is, a distraction, and a pretty desperate one at that.

deathstar?
If some part of your 10:39 post was intended for me, you were not coherent enough for me to see it.

Obama for America's President?
What has he done to make you think he is worthy?
This?
http://capwiz.com/sicminc/issues/alert/?alertid=11014611&ty pe=CO

The guy is another stupid dupe who thinks he is a World Citizen!

Other than being a black racist, what qualifies him to be our President?
His total disregard for American Sovereignty?
He does not have enough executive experience to run a lemonade stand!
(And Neither do Hillary or McCain!)

dmac
I understand your response to deathstar, but for the life of me I can't understand deathstar. Here we are arguing about Obama using the race card and deathstar talks about Iraq. Silly libs, they can't even stick to the subject at hand. No wonder they would make terrible leaders!

deathstar
The same intelligent people who invaded Afghanistan then turned their eyes to Iraq. We didn't deviate from the original purpose, we took the next logical step. Afghanistan was about the immediate threat, Iraq about preventing the next threat. Debating whether Iraq was the correct or necessary next step is certainly warranted, but "go figure" is even more certainly disingenuous.

I feel "Bush lied", "distorted intelligence", "Iraqi oil", "Haliburton" coming on...

My Opine
"They were a part of John F. Kennedy's 1961 Inaugural Address."

Oh, Yeah, Kennedy was the other candidate who people said didn't have enough foreign policy experience and was too young, too naive, to hold the office.

Glad you quoted him. In another ten years you'll be quoting Obama.


some NY Guy and MYOpine
And those Iraqis are SOOOOOOOO grateful!
Why, they invited us right in! Enjoying those flowers and candies, Con4fred? And the best part is, the war will pay for itself!"

Yes, and the part about dancing in the streets? Actually, those were bodies being blown off the pavement from the force of explosions - they just looked like they were dancing.


Another question:
If BHO is the great hope who will save America, how come in the last 20 years he hasn't done much except listen to his pastor rant and rave about white America? He has done nothing as an activist, a lawyer or a senator to protect the black community from itself. Since this past September alone, over 20 black kids have been shot coming to/going from/around school in Chicago. Homes in the black community have a horrendous boardup and teardown rate for the last 50 years which gets worse every year. If BHO, along with Wright, Jesse, Louis, and Father Pfleger haven't been able to stop the killing HERE, convince the kids that they need to put as much effort in their educations as they do in reproducing, how in the hell will he accomplish anything on a national scale?

Gestell
"...what I wanted to do, which was to let TH readers have a chance to learn about Cone's views, whatever they may conclude about them."

It's pretty hard to get people to accept information that contradicts their closely held prejudices - unfortunately. Also, I think if TH is about nothing else it is about defending one's prejudices and views, no matter how narrow.

Cone's work is all new to me; in fact, the entire concept of Black theology was new to me until recently. But it's interesting, and I plan to do some research on Cone, thanks to you.

Con4fred
"why not put the blame where it belongs.... the scumbag terrorists that started this war!"

That's what intelligent people started out to do; that's why we invaded Afghanistan.

Then, for some reason, we deviated from the original purpose (blaming the scumbag terrorists that started this war) and invaded Iraq!

Go figure.

dmac
I think our best option is to try to limit whatever harm one of these incompetent Leftist Presidents can do.
(AND it probably will be McCain!)

Do what you can to help these guys!
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/03/iraq_vets_for_congre ss.html

OH NO -- Hagee and McCain
I don't know that much about Hagee, but I looked at what was on wikipedia about him. From what I can tell there, my views are substantially in line with his. While Hagee's influence on McCain may give you pause, it is his likely lack of influence that gives me pause. McCain knows he needs to make nice with the social conservatives, particularly evangelicals, given his past harsh words towards them and his general discomfort with associating with them. This is a play for votes, not a signal that he is energized by a common agenda or that he desires their input.

However, perhaps I delude myself thinking that Obama is equally ambivalent to his pastor's teaching. The kind of stuff that black liberation theology espouses has pretty direct political application and lends itself to fulfillment in govt policy. The scary thing would be Wright as the fiery energizer and Obama as the cool, unoffensive, stealthy implementer.

SomeNYGuy
Like I said, YOU are making a fool of yourself.

Do these words sound familiar?
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty."
They were a part of John F. Kennedy's 1961 Inaugural Address.

From your posts you seem to think you can just pack up the troops and go home and the war will end like a high school football game.

Iraq is one battlefield in a LONG war.
Radical Islam is certain Americans lack the courage to fight a long war.
People like YOU give them that impression!

WOW
I think Barack should appoint Rev. Wright as his VP. Whta do you guys think?

Barack naive
Barack lies when he say he was unaware of Wright's ideology. You are not able to be mentored by a person for 20 years and not get the idea that the mentor is radical. HOWEVER, I do believe him when he say he do not share the beliefs. Barack is just another liberal who wants the poor to raise up the income steps. Then when the poor get into the higher tax bracket, they will run back!

somenyguy
Actually, they did invite us in.

Do you remember when some peace activists went to Iraq to show support for Saddams regime? A few of the taxi cab drivers secretly told the activists that Saddam was a tyrant and wished the USA would take him out. Remember?


Goodnight, wingnuts.
"They may guide you so you don't make another fool of yourself!"

Yes, the last thing TownHall needs is another fool. I hope you're enjoying your lunacy, because our beloved country is paying a terrible price for it.

And those Iraqis are SOOOOOOOO grateful!
Why, they invited us right in! Enjoying those flowers and candies, Con4fred? And the best part is, the war will pay for itself!

SomeNYGuy
This is the vote authorizing war with Iraq.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-2. html

This is where the WMD went.
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/1/29/133526.sht ml

!!This is "Bush lied"
http://www.mrc.org/realitycheck/2006/fax20060413.asp

Read these links.
They may guide you so you don't make another fool of yourself!

somenyguy
"When did Iraq attack -- or even threaten to attack -- the U.S. before we invaded their country?

Thanks for playing, but you lose again."

You are confused. We LIBERATED Iraq.

Sorry, you lose!

reply to deathstar
Thanks. You're correct; there's no nice bumper sticker phrase that fits what I wanted to do, which was to let TH readers have a chance to learn about Cone's views, whatever they may conclude about them.

FYI, I studied black theology with Cone, and have included his books--along with traditional Christian writings (Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Calvin), other present-day Christian writings across the spectrum, and Jewish and Islamic writings in various courses I teach.

The Other Alan writes:
Patriots indeed
How many of these characters at the top of this page actually served in the military like Jeremiah Wright did?


Did you?

Hey Con4Fred...
How many of the 9/11 terrorist were Iraqis?

When did Iraq attack -- or even threaten to attack -- the U.S. before we invaded their country?

Thanks for playing, but you lose again.

deathstar 2
"I guess there must be a secret blog somewhere in a parallel universe where conservatives go to post."

Please feel free to post ones that you find from other blogs. Include the name of the blog (a link is helpful), the subject of the comment, and the complete comment. Let's see if you can find racist conservatives.

deathstar
If you are upset that some innocent people get caught up in the war on terror, why not put the blame where it belongs.... the scumbag terrorists that started this war!

Con4fred
"There may be a few Republicans that have said it, but I don't ever recall a Conservative making those statements"

I guess there must be a secret blog somewhere in a parallel universe where conservatives go to post.

Who profits from it?
Who would profit the most right now by provoking a bunch of stupid black racists into insulting all people of other races?

Or white bigots insulting black people?

Or is thinking forbidden while your mind is clouded by anger?

Just who would gain the most by a racial split in our population prior to an election?

Does anyone who has been the victim of their own emotions feel a little USED right now!

AG
Descent? Dissent? Desent? Decent? Decsent? Deesent?

Help!!

impeachbush
"No, the only condition is that they keep their mouths shut and loyally follow their white leaders like Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell, Elaine Chou and Condoleezza Rice have all done!"

If you truly believe that, then it is you that is the racist.

Hi, GG-AZ
"You don't seriously think that President Bush is going to refuse to leave the White House next January, do you?"

Not if he can find a way to issue another executive override.

Actually, I have seen quite a bit of footage from one on one interviews with WOO, mostly on Frontline. The problem is that when such rationale is isolated within a particular frame of reference it always sounds reasonable. That's how the Supreme Court voted to imprison American Citizens of Japanese desent. (sp?) It wasn't until Bush that I really understood how that could have happened, by the way.

Also, not every person who was held in solitary confinement without trial or legal counsel was arrested with a gun in his hands, in Iraq. Remember Mahir Arar, the Canadian who was sent to Syria to be tortured but who had never done anything except being walking around while being ofmiddle eastern heritage? Even Jose Padilla, who may have had bad intentions, was held for over three years without any kind of legal recourse, clearly against the constitution. To this day I'm not sure if he hasn't been sentenced based on presumed intent.

To call up Lincoln is a perfect example of the dangers of breaching the constitution in a way that suggest following presidents can do the same, and even widen those breaches. It's as if we found out that a former President committed murder, and used that as a reason to say murder was within the rights of anybody in the oval office. (Maybe murder isn't a good example, but you get my point).

The imprisonment of Americans during WWII is considered a travesty, should we be able to repeat it? I think that what you are saying implies that we can rationalize a form of judicial and moral entropy in the hopes it won't go to far. History doesn't support that, unfortunately.

impeachbush
Obama can't win anyway. The racist Dems will be voting for the old white guy.

deathstar
"How many conservatives have said that the only reason anyone would vote for Obama is because he is black?"

None that I know of.

There may be a few Republicans that have said it, but I don't ever recall a Conservative making those statements.

While I'm at it
It's been my experience that conservatives welcome minorities with open arms.

The only condition being...
they understand that there are NO conditions. Your success, or failure, is totally up to you, just like anyone/everyone else.

Con4
You have never known a conservative racist? Are you in a coma?

All you need to do is look through various threads on TH - watch fro posts by "Otis" - they're always a sure thing.

How many conservatives have said that the only reason anyone would vote for Obama is because he is black? How racist is that? If I said that the only reason cons would vote for McCain is that he is white, would that sound racist to you?

Are you on drugs?

Not long ago
When I lived in SC we had a Democrat org called the KKKK based in our town. They called themselves the Kristian Ku Klux Klan. They would actively campaign for almost any Dem candidate that they liked. And they would do it while marching n local parades.

Gotta love those color blind Democrats. NOT!

somenyguy
"But you know as well as I do you're lying anyway."

I am not lying.

I have known some Republicans that were racist.

I have known many Democrats that were racist.

I have never met a Conservative that was racist. NEVER!

Here's a recent incident (last week)...

The racism I see is coming from the Dems, and I'm seeing it up close and personal..... I talked recently to our County Democrat Chairman about Obamas chances in the general election. Here's his take on it... "the organization I belong to is doing everything possible to make sure that "blank" never sits in the White House". When I asked how big the organization was he said... "it's a big enough percentage to make sure that "blank" does not win."

I then asked what they had in mind, and he basically said they were going to tell their people to vote for the old white guy. He also said that it was an easy sell because McCain seems more like a Democrat.

If what he says is true, southern Dems, and Dems that live outside of metropolitan areas will NOT be voting for Obama because of his color.


deathstar
I read the John Yoo (not Woo) memo, and it is a thoughtful and well-researched presentation of the issues presented.

For instance, he concludes -- rightly -- that the Fifth Amendment Due Process Clause (that no person "shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law") does not apply to the President's actions in conducting a war. This is obvious, as otherwise it would prohibit killing or capturing the enemy in wartime, which is pretty much what war is all about.

There are many who object to the Bush administration's view of the breadth of the President's power as Commander-in-Chief in wartime. Remember that it was under this power that President Lincoln concluded that he had Constitutional power to free millions of black slaves with the Emancipation Proclamation. Legally, this was a massive seizure of property without compensation.

Likewise, those who object to detention of US citizens who have taken up arms for Al Qaeda should compare the situation to the Civil War, in which the Confederate soldiers were all US citizens, many of whom were killed, maimed, or captured and detained by the military under the authority of the President acting as Commander in Chief.

This is not a dictatorship. It is the way that the US Constitution allocates power between the branches of government in time of war.

And the Constitutional checks are obvious: (1) Congress has the power of the purse; (2) the President needs to be reelected; and (3) the President is limited to two terms (plus up to 2 add'l years for a VP who becomes POTUS).

You don't seriously think that President Bush is going to refuse to leave the White House next January, do you?

Criticize Obama?
Just because he wants to give the United Nations Authority to TAX AMERICAN CITIZENS and distribute the money to 3rd World Dictators?

http://capwiz.com/sicminc/issues/alert/?alertid=11014611&ty pe=CO

Or maybe because he thinks the American President is also Commander In Chief of Australian & Canadian Armed Services!

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/02/interventionism_obam astyle.html


Whether or not he is a bigot, he certainly would be a pathetic excuse for a President.

Con4fred, meet Pat Buchanan!
And if you like him, we can fix you up with thousands more just like him -- or worse!

But you know as well as I do you're lying anyway.

the other allen
"How many of these characters at the top of this page actually served in the military like Jeremiah Wright did?"

Who the hell cares???

Just a personal note
I am 51 years of age. I have met a few Republicans that were racist. I have met many Democrats that are racist. I have never met a Conservative that was racist, NEVER!

Patriots indeed
How many of these characters at the top of this page actually served in the military like Jeremiah Wright did?

Mike Gallagher| Mary Katharine Ham| Hugh Hewitt| Michael Medved| Michael Barone| Bruce Bartlett| Tony Blankley| Kevin McCullough| Dennis Prager|

Gestell
Your post was terrific. Unfortunately, if you can't address a complex issue with a catch-phrase or bumper sticker, I suspect nobody will read all the way through.

As for me, I'm going to print it out. I have a few friends I want to show it to.

Just on principle
I never read or listen to anybody who uses the following terms: "golly gee", "kookie", "Daddy-O", "passion pit" or "Libtards".

sorry.

Obama's Answers
These are good questions - incl the additional ones by RAND and others.

Does anyong rally believe Barack HUSSIEN Obama will honestly answer them? Did any of you actually listen to his "racial" speech?

BHO will ignore any such questions until they can no longer be ignored. Then, just as he did in his racial speech, he may start by saying something like, "I understand some people might be concerned about these things." Then he will apply the glib, convoluted rationalizations (& outright lies) that served him well thus far.

The halo is tarnished...
All the polishing in the world by the libtards in the media and on forums like this will not be able to return the shine to B. Hussein Messiah's halo. The string broke too and we can see him trying to hold it up over his head all the while trying to lull the indies and libs back into their comas with his silken voice. Sure, it didn't take the libtards long to get glassy eyed again, but the Good Reverend Wright's comments have awakened alot of indies and they aren't going to buy the messiah bit anymore. So, go ahead libtards, keep spinning and trying to push your moral equivalence arguments. Nobody here is falling for it and alot of the indies are going to vote for McCain now instead of your racist false messiah. Your protestations are weak and pitiful and you're just making yourselves look rediculous. As usual.

deathstar writes:
LeRoy
I have heard the incident about Rove's whisper campaing against Richard many times, both on the radio, TV and the internet. I suspect if you type up "Rove" or "Rove/Anne Richards" on your search finder you will find alot of stuff. What you make of it is up to you.

that's funny because I live in Texas and did in 1994, and never heard rumor one about Grannie Annie. GWB beat her on the issues, and libs do not like to admit that. Conspiracy is a better explanation than the truth.

Death
"1. I apologize for saying that you never present an idea. That's not true. I seldom agree with them, but unlike some posters here you really do not only present ideas and opinions but elaborate on them with examples."

Um, thanks, but you're not the one who said it???


"2. The president claims an inherent power to imprison American citizens without obtaining a warrant, letting them hear the charges against them, or following other safeguards against wrongful punishment guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. Under his administration, the government has engaged in inhumane treatment of prisoners —("

I think, but don't know for sure, that this is an exaggeration. If you are referring to Gitmo, those aren't American citizens.

I will give you this - a president assuming power which is later also used by a future president is bad news. As an example (see, you were right:)), the democrats in congress invented the Independent Counsel statute to bring down Nixon, but later wanted it repealed, or allowed to expire, when their boy was in the WH. Not the best example because it's not the executive branch, but the law of unintended consequences remains the same...

James Cone part 2
More from the site:

http://www.nathanielturner.com/dialogueonblacktheology.htm

“In the divine-human encounter, the particular experience of oppression and liberation, as disclosed in black-skinned people, is affirmed as God’s own experience; and through that divine affirmation, I encounter the universal meaning of oppression and liberation that is not limited by skin color. The same is true for the literal and symbolic meaning of whiteness, which has the opposite meaning of blackness. “

“The assertion that “the gospel is liberation” is not an arbitrary statement. It is an assertion of faith based on God’s revelation in history as made known in the Exodus and the appearance of Jesus Christ. Therefore, it is a distortion of the gospel and heretical if it is said that Christians should place liberation high on the list of goals. The concept of liberation is not one among many themes in the biblical tradition; it is rather the essence of God’s revelation in history, and other emphases should be interpreted in light of liberation. “

“God does not will that people should be oppressed, and that was why he came in Jesus and why he is present as Holy Spirit today. God’s stand against oppression is his affirmation that all men have a common humanity in freedom.
“This means that I cannot be free until all men are free. And if in some distant future I am no longer oppressed because of blackness, then I must take upon myself whatever form of human oppression exists in the society, affirming my identity with the victims. The identity must be made with the victims not because of sympathy, but because my own humanity is involved in my brother’s degradation.”




James Cone part 1
I’m not trying to convince any TH reader of anything; I simply want any discussion about black theology and its most influential writer, James Cone, to be based on Cone’s actual views.
To listen to Cone, including some of his comments on the Wright/Obama controversy, check out NPR at:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=892361 16
From the Wikipedia article on Cone:
“The black theologian must reject any conception of God which stifles black self-determination by picturing God as a God of all peoples. Either God is identified with the oppressed to the point that their experience becomes God's experience, or God is a God of racism...The blackness of God means that God has made the oppressed condition God's own condition. This is the essence of the Biblical revelation. By electing Israelite slaves as the people of God and by becoming the Oppressed One in Jesus Christ, the human race is made to understand that God is known where human beings experience humiliation and suffering...Liberation is not an afterthought, but the very essence of divine activity. “(A Black Theology of Liberation, pp. 63-64)

“Being black in America has little to do with skin color. Being black means that your heart, your soul, your mind, and your body are where the dispossessed are." (Black Theology and Black Power, p. 1)

The following originally appeared in “The Christian Century,” 9/15/71. Here is some of the interview with Cone at:

http://www.nathanielturner.com/dialogueonblacktheology.htm

“When I begin to investigate the particular experience of blackness and whiteness in America, I begin to see beyond it. Through my particular experience of blackness, I encounter the symbolic significance of black existence and how that existence is related to God’s revelation in Jesus Christ.”


A few questions for Mr. Medved:
1. How many extremist Likudnik rabbis right here in the U.S. who preach the genocide of the Palestinians have you denounced?
2. The Rev. Billy Graham was a spiritual advisor to several U.S. presidents including George W. Bush and the most famous preacher in America. Do you excuse his virulent anti-semitism because he tried (unsuccessfully in the long run) to keep it a secret?
3. Do you believe Jesus Christ was a full-blooded middle eastern Jew and therefore probably a great deal swarthier than the fair-haired, light-skinned European type depicted in many Christian churches? As an observant Jew, do you believe Christ was the Messiah and the son of God?
4. Why would you assume that the Christian Sen. Obama shares the beliefs of a Muslim (Rev. Farrakhan)? Do you actually believe all black people think and feel the same way?
5. Does it bother you that you're a Jew who increasingly sounds like a Nazi, and do you enjoy being the object of widespread public ridicule (richly deserved)?

Dave asked
"But where is Mrs. Obama lately? "

Gee, Dave, she was just shown on CNN giving a speech to a large, appreciative crowd in Pennsylvania.

LeRoy
I have heard the incident about Rove's whisper campaing against Richard many times, both on the radio, TV and the internet. I suspect if you type up "Rove" or "Rove/Anne Richards" on your search finder you will find alot of stuff. What you make of it is up to you.

I'm not from Texas, but I liked Richards for the same reasons you cited. She just seemed candid, real, and interesting. It seemed like she never invented catchphrases and I never heard her repeat herself.

I'm sorry she died.


Impeachbush
So Wright and Sen. Obama are telling us the "unadulterated TRUTH"?

The US government developing the AIDS virus to infect blacks is the truth?

The US government giving drugs to blacks is the truth?

If Wright was speaking the truth, why did Sen. Obama state that he "condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy."

If Wright was speaking the truth, why did Sen. Obama say that Wright's remarks "expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country."

These quotes are from Sen. Obama's speech of March 18.

If Wright and Sen. Obama disagree, they can't both be telling the "unadulterated TRUTH." So which one do you think is lying?

part 2
We just learned about the John Woo memo yesterday, saying that torture was OK) and when Congress passed legislation to ban such treatment, he declared he would simply interpret the law his own way. Although the Constitution says treaties are the "supreme law of the land," the president has abrogated them on his own. And, we now know, he ordered a secret program of electronic surveillance of Americans without court warrants.

Yesterday, it was revealed that the White house deliberately lied to the NY Times a year before they published this story, by telling them that their lawyers had vetted the surveillance practices. They now admit this was a lie.

The theory of inherent powers that Bush invokes to justify most of these actions is dangerous, and were justified by a meek congress and institutionalized of all, by a deferential Supreme Court that showed all the backbone of a 50 cent hooker.


The real danger today is the loaded weapon that Bush and his defenders are willing to put in the hands of all future presidents. Even members of his own party ought to be able to see that danger, and act to stop it.

The principles that Bush is has undermined were designed to protect us all. Our Constitution divides the president's authority with Congress and the courts so as to create a system of mandatory consultations. That requirement does not make injustice and misuse of power impossible, but it makes them less likely. To survive, the system chiefly requires that if those in power cannot remember our traditions, they can at least imagine themselves out of power in the future.

During the average presidency, Executive orders, which override congressional decisions in order to implement an alternative course, have seldom passed more than 5 in number. Bush has issued literally hundreds of them, and another order to mandate that they all be kept secret.

How is this different from a petty dictatorship, which is unconstitutional if nothing else?

AZPhil - 2 messages
1. I apologize for saying that you never present an idea. That's not true. I seldom agree with them, but unlike some posters here you really do not only present ideas and opinions but elaborate on them with examples.

2. The president claims an inherent power to imprison American citizens without obtaining a warrant, letting them hear the charges against them, or following other safeguards against wrongful punishment guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. Under his administration, the government has engaged in inhumane treatment of prisoners —(

OBAMA BAD FOR AMERICA

.....The Democrat Governor of Wyoming just promised to endorse Obama if Obama would agree to put Wyoming's oil fields off limits to exploration and development ...

.....Now that's the way to achieve energy independence ...what fools ...or I shoud say what fools vote for these guys? .....COLOSSUS

baseballdoc writes:
TRU ARNTSON

.....I would call you a wit ...but then I would only be half right .....COLOSSUS

Or he could be a nit

Attention Liberals
The Wright and Trinity Chucrh of christ story is not going away, nor is the Farrakhan angle and the Revko angle, the William Ayers angle, or the Michelle "I'm not proud----." angle.

Add those to the "Most liberal man in the Congress", the man who would not punsish his daughters with a baby, his plans to disable our military and cut and run from the War on Terror and you have a man who is not electable.

So, cry in your beer your beer.

Bubba

TRU ARNTSON

.....I would call you a wit ...but then I would only be half right .....COLOSSUS

deathstar writes:
Obama supporters are not America-haters -- we want to see America survive 8 years of hell.

And that's what you'll get, if he wins.

Deathstar
"Obama supporters just don't want to see any more destruction of the constitution"

Such as...???

Angle
"clinton was famous for a strategy called "triangulation" in which he would take the best of gingrich/republicans ideas sign them into law and get credit for them.. "

For once, we agree on something!

Tru Arse
"Do you just lie awake at night trying to think up insults or are you actually incapable of forming a genuine idea?"

Neither of the above. I've brought up facts about politicians' ages and W-L records. You have added gems like this: "Doesn't say much for the IQ level of the conservative right, does it?"
which it seems to me is meant as an insult.

tru Arntson
I haven't heard about Rove starting rumors about Anne being gay, not saying you fabricated this or even passed on a fabrication, just never heard it myself till now.

As far as "Grannie Annie", it was a term of endearment, not something said behind her back with a giggle. Most of us here in Texas really liked Miss Anne, may have disagreed with some of her politics, but we liked and respected her. She was tough, straight forward and you knew what was on her mind. I didn't have to agree with her on everything but I certainly could not help but respect her.

Medved conservative said
"voters that are naive and still audacious enough to hope that Obama is going to ride in on a white horse and save the country, Obama actually has viable candidacy. "

I don't know any Obama supporters who think he is going to "save the country" - so much damage has been done throughout the Bush years that it will take more than one president to even begin the repairs, if they are even still possible.

Obama supporters just don't want to see any more destruction of the constitution, the respect for America and the presidency, the national character, and a level of morality that goes deeper than simplistic uber-christian platitudes.

Any republican running will sell his soul to get nominated, we are already seeing it with McCain, who has flip-flopped on every issue that he once defended.

Obama supporters are not America-haters -- we want to see America survive 8 years of hell.

jr: clinton was famous for
a strategy called "triangilization" in which he would take the best of gingrich/republicans ideas sign them into law and get credit for them..

AZ Phil
Do you just lie awake at night trying to think up insults or are you actually incapable of forming a genuine idea?

TRU ARNTSON

.....Truth is truth no matter the century ...

.....Obama is a media rock star ...people will go to listen to him but if you are trying to tell me that true "Conservatives" would vote for someone who is ideologically 180 degrees out of phase with their values ...then you are coming from an alternate Universe and are under the spell of BIZARRO MAN ...

.....Beware of flying Klingons around Uranus .....COLOSSUS

I've never
seen so many lies told by Sociaist liberals as have been told today concerning this article.

Down right amazin'

Good article Michael!

Left Angle lost me
I got lost on BJ Clinton's credit for welfare reform. Didn't he veto it twice and the party went kicking and screaming about losing 60 percent of the people they pretend to care about? Thoug...h it was long ago and I didn't follow politics much.

False Arnston
"Doesn't say much for the IQ level of the conservative right, does it?"

I forgot - all Republicans are dumb in liberal world. We can't all be as intellectually gifted as Sean Penn; sorry for that.

False Arnston
No need to guess. Ann Richards was born 1 Sep 1933. John McCain was born 29 Aug 1936, so he is (or was) almost exactly three years younger.

AZ Phil
"He defeated an incumbent VP, then a Harvard-educated "war hero".

Doesn't say much for the IQ level of the conservative right, does it?


Lefty
Well, many have said Bush is the village idiot.

I think HRC resembles the wicked witch of the west myself - though not as green.

Lumberjack and LeRoy
"In Texas politics, Grannie Annie was the nickname given to Anne Richards. "

Well, let's see, since Anne Richards was the incumbent governor when Rove started the rumors (in writing) pretending that she was gay, I guess I just suspected that Texans meant her when they said "Grannie Annie". After all, Texans are known for their subtlety and cleverness, no?

If memory serves me right, she was younger than McCain at the time.

Go figure.



azphil: a response
I have never said bush is dumb even though he does have a uncanny resemblemce to MAD MAGAZINES
Alfred E. Neuman..lol

but after his last dismal 4 years in office, I dont even think Karl (the genius in his own mind) Rove could save him.

Angle
"GWB is good at playing hardball politics.
it worked for him at first"

At first? He ran twice, and won twice. He defeated an incumbent VP, then a Harvard-educated "war hero".

Angle
"he has done bigtime damage to the republican brand"

And you think HRC hasn't done damage to her party by stubbornness, vanity, and infleixbility?

"..in other words if he ran again there can be no doubt he would lose."

I guess we'll never know.

Left
All I'm saying is, conisdering the value you place on W-L records, and that GWB (aka the Dumbest Man in America) is 4-1 lifetime, and 4-0 since 1979, you must be breathing a sigh of relief that he can't run again.

AZPhil: a response
GWB is good at playing hardball politics.
it worked for him at first but his stubborness inflexibility, and ability to adjust are costing him and the republican party bigtime..he has done bitime damage to the republican brand..in other words if he ran again there can be no doubt he would lose.

One More Time...
Repubs/Cons: By Definition
"Beating A Dead Horse"

"You are beating a dead horse when you insist on talking about something that cannot be changed. Example: "I'd like to talk with you again about what happened." Reply: "Oh, come on. Let's not beat a dead horse."

"Beating a dead horse":

Is an action that has no purpose, because no matter how hard or how long you beat a dead horse, it is not going to get up and run.

Example: "Let's not talk about it any more. Okay?" Reply: "You're right. We're just beating a dead horse."

To repeatedly bring up a particular topic with no chance of affecting the outcome is "beating a dead horse."

Example: "Dad, are you sure we can't get a new computer for the upstairs?" Reply: "Son, we talked about this and the decision was 'no'. You are beating a dead horse."


Lefty
Yep, so to paraphrase you "GWB knows how to defeat democcrats and beat them at their own game..."

The Missing
The Rev. Wright is missing from the scene. But where is Mrs. Obama lately? Is she safely tucked away in the Teresa Heinz Kerry secret recovery center for foot-in-mouth wives?

Gayle
The problem is with Phlyo the Phuquing Idiot around, any thread would be "thick with ignorance." And Deathstar is just some 9-year-old who named himself after Darth Vader's ship.

azphil...it true...
overall I think the Clintons are something like
7-2 against the repubs...and the last four times they have run they have won. include with that
his victory over gingrich in the budget showdown, his aquittal in the senate over republican impeachment charges and credit for welfare reform etc...i could go on but...you get the idea.

the clintons know how to defeat republicans and beat them at their own game...

i would think you would rather face a novice like obama rather than the clintons. even repubs/cons give it up for bill clintons abilities as a master politician/strategist.

Let's simplify things
I analyze this the following way:

(1) Obama did not publicly denounce Wright's deplorable statements before they were exposed to the public. Question to Obama: Please explain the timing of your denouncement of Wright's publicized statements.

(2) Obama denounced Wright's publicized deplorable statements. Question to Obama: Please explain the principled basis for your denouncement of Wright's publicized statements.

(3) Obama did not denounce Wright's unpublicized deplorable statements. Question to Obama: To the best of your knowledge, has Wright offered further statements that were not publicized that you found deplorable on the same grounds you described in response to question (2) above? If so, what were they?

If Obama replies "no" to question (3) but further deplorable statements made by Wright come to light, then question (3) will show that Obama does not honestly deplore Wright's publicized statements.

Left Angle
I notice you are fond of saying this:

"you'd rather face Hillary & Bill Clinton in the general election than novice Obama?

If so then I'm all for it because the Clintons have a proven track record of defeating Repubs/Cons and kicking/handing them their arses...lol®"

So, let's review...

G. W. Bush: Lost House election to Kent Hance in 1978. Won Texas gubernatorial election in 1994 over favored incumbent Ann Richards. Won re-election to Austin by landslide in 1998. Won close election with 49% of popular vote over Owlgore in 2000, and re-elected over John Kerry in 2004 with 51% of the popular vote.

B. Clinton: Lost House bid to John Paul Hammerschmidt in 1974. Won Arkansas gubernatorial election in 1978, lost Arkansas gubernatorial election in 1980, won Arkansas gubernatorial election in 1982. Won 1992 presidential election with 43% of the vote. Won 1996 presidential election with 49% of the vote over a guy in Depends.

H. Rodham: Passed bar exam after multiple attempts. Presided in an unelected capacity over health care reform debacle. Made history as first First Lady ever to be subpoenaed. Cherry-picked New York for a Senate run in 2000 (despite barely having visited there); defeated placeholder, last-minute candidate Rick Lazio in one of the most liberal states in the Union. Became “born-again” Yankee fan in 1999 to add to illusion of being a New Yorker. Re-elected Senator in 2006 with no intention of completing her term.

Given this, I would say if anyone has a winning record, it's GWB - no losses since 1978. You all must be thanking whatever you worship that he can't run again, eh?

Jesus's color
Jesus was a Jew. Whatever color they are, that is the color he was. The Whites or the Blacks have no claim to his color. This just shows how immature Wright is. He has sure done a lot to alienate the races. I hope the stupid racist is satisfied. If Obama was dumb enough to think that no one would find out about the things that his church believes in, that along would make him not fit to be a President. I know some nice Black people and I can tell that they already believe what he is saying. My sister was all for him until she listened to what he was saying. He is not a rock star. People need to get off of this worshipping attitude that they have toward him.
The Conservatives also need to get someone that has better views than McCain. We do not need Liberals raising our taxes and messing the country up even more than it already is. I am beginning to think that the people that are running our country do not have as much sense as the average housewife.

Phylo
You think that the Wright issue ("Pastorgate") is of concern only to "racists and rabid right-wingers"?

Sen. Obama gave his Pastorgate speech on March 18. On March 28 he appeared on "The View" on ABC. ABC's Sunlen Miller described Pastorgate as "[t]he hot subject on the minds of the co-hosts and 'The View.'" See http://abc.go.com/daytime/theview/info?pn=news

So now Barbara Walters and Whoopi Goldberg are racists and/or rabid right-wingers?

The truth is that you, and other Obama supporters, want this story buried because it is terribly damaging to your candidate.

Phylo Se Fiser, wow to you to
you comment in your 1:36 post, "...this thread is thick with ignorance."
Is that the reason you keep reading it, because you feel so comfortable in the atmosphere of ignorance?
Why don't you go somewhere that will challenge your astounding intellect?

leroy writes:
Lumberjack
Will agree about Annes appetite for tax money (I've always said those "user fees" were just taxes), but when Perry started ramming this TTC fiasco down our throats for the benifit of his carpet-bagging foriegn friends, I mean that's just the last straw.

I punched the line next to Strahorn myself but would have welcomed Kinky.

Perry just about validates every Aggie Joke ever told.

Anthony Thomas
No. You never did say Wright was "wonderful" or America was "awful". You said worse.

You denigrated America once again by repeating Wright's hate filled message.

Nothing ever gets through to the America Haters! It's hopeless. Try telling them to imagine what the world would be like without America and they turn their backs. Try telling them America, as we speak, is at war with some of the most depraved, inhuman fiends on the face of the earth and they'll blame America. It's their Golden Rule. Blame America for everything!

Tell the American Haters that hundreds of thousands of Americans gave their lives just so they can defame America 24-7 and they could care less.

And there's some that even echo the words of creeps like Wright.






LJ7392-Leroy
Liberals have NO MORALS, so discussing MORALITY with them is like discussing Conservatism with The McAmnesty McMidget, THEY HAVE NO CLUE!

Lumberjack
Will agree about Annes appetite for tax money (I've always said those "user fees" were just taxes), but when Perry started ramming this TTC fiasco down our throats for the benifit of his carpet-bagging foriegn friends, I mean that's just the last straw.

I punched the line next to Strahorn myself but would have welcomed Kinky.

So left angle...
...have you spent 20 years attending KKK rallies? If not why, you say there is no guilt in associating with them.

Do you have a twety year history with neo-nazis? You say there is no guilt there.

Surely you have long time friendships with pedophiles. Don't tell me a person finds guilt in associating with them.

My cousin went to prison for car theift, had I gone that would have been guilt by association. Befriending Wright and buying into his warpped message is an indication of one's own character, having this as the chosen spiritual environment for your children is another.

Left Angle writes:
leroy:a response
what's pretty obvious to me is that you dont know what youre talking about. listening to someone talk for 20 years doesnt mean I agree with everything that person says, nor does it make me responsible for what he says.
this whole "guilt by association" thing you repubs/cons are trying to predicate is pure bs.

You lefties are pretty good at guilt by association as well. I suspect that if McCain was a member and associated with pastor of a church for twenty years, and that pastor had said the same things as Wright, we'd never hear the end of it from the left or the MSM.

leroy writes:
Lumberjack
Yes I know about Anne, I'm in south Texas myself. It was deadstar who I was questioning.

There were a number of things I liked about Miss Anne, and after putting up with that load from Perry these last few years she looks even better.

I agree with you about Perry. I was so disgusted by him, I voted for Kinky Friedman in 2006. Anne, however never met a tax, fee, or regulation that she did not like.

leroy:a response
what's pretty obvious to me is that you dont know what youre talking about. listening to someone talk for 20 years doesnt mean I agree with everything that person says, nor does it make me responsible for what he says.
this whole "guilt by association" thing you repubs/cons are trying to predicate is pure bs.

Lumberjack
Yes I know about Anne, I'm in south Texas myself. It was deadstar who I was questioning.

There were a number of things I liked about Miss Anne, and after putting up with that load from Perry these last few years she looks even better.

Stop being dishonest for political gain
Americans have a reputation as very honest people around the world. I grew up in Africa and we consider Americans that way. But after living here for a year and watching the political debates, I am so shock that many people on the right will twist a statement by someone for political gain. My wife and I are missionaries and donot agree with liberals on issue but we are shocked when their statements are twisted for political gain. I happened to have watched where the statement about being punished with a baby came from.
He was speaking in a town hall and a student asked what he thought of sex education in schools. He reponded by saying , first he would start by teaching abstinance but since he had two daughters and that he doesn't want that when they reach 16 and make a mistake, they can be punished with a baby or some sexually transmissable desease. The next day I watched as FOXNews twisted the words and decided I will never watch FOXNews again. You may not agree with them but do not twist their words or use them out of context for political gain.

leroy writes:
deathstar/leftangle
No the Ku Klux Knuts are not running for president but a man who sat for 20 years listening to Wright preach parallel drivel is. When your parents tell you to be careful who you associate with it would be wise to heed their advise.


One former Klansman is in the Senate, and in fact is called "The Conscience of the Senate." He is Robert Byrd (DKKK WVA).

Wright comments haven't hurt Obama
The fact that the Wright comments not been more damaging to Obama than one would think really show how far left a lot of Democrats have gone. Between the crazy leftists that agree with Obama's pastor, the racists that will vote for Obama solely because he is black, and the disenchanted voters that are naive and still audacious enough to hope that Obama is going to ride in on a white horse and save the country, Obama actually has viable candidacy.

deathstar/leftangle
No the Ku Klux Knuts are not running for president but a man who sat for 20 years listening to Wright preach parallel drivel is. When your parents tell you to be careful who you associate with it would be wise to heed their advise.

leftangle, none of Wrights quotes would sound biggoted to you unless they were spoken from another perspective. Saying that their beliefs seem the same is not other words for lack of proof, it is merely stating the obvious.

leroy writes:
deadstar re Lumberjack and tru
You don't know who Grannie Annie was do you?

Thought not.

In Texas politics, Grannie Annie was the nickname given to Anne Richards.

leroy: a question
can you please quote me the exact statements that rev. wright said that were, as you charge bigoted/racist.

"evidently their beliefs are quite similar?"

so in other words you have no proof of what you charge? if so lets see it.

LeRoy
"Also, I am constantly amazed at the people who try and defend Wright by saying the statements were taken out of context, he really has a good message. Would the same people listen to a speech from a Ku Klux Knuts cross burning and try to put it into context to find some good points? Are they that ignorant?"

LeRoy, the KKK is not running for the White HOuse. Neither is Wright.

deadstar re Lumberjack and tru
You don't know who Grannie Annie was do you?

Thought not.

As to that family picture of the lynching you are so proud of, I once saw a picture of a black guy who was convicted of raping and murdering a couple of young white women. By your reasoning this would justify whites to harbor hatred of blacks, that's kind of a warpped way to view the world.

Mr. Obama will never...
...truely distance himself from Wright, their beliefs evidently are quite similar or this issue would never have been an issue. To keep expecting Obama to do anything further would be an invitation for him to simply lie.

Also, I am constantly amazed at the people who try and defend Wright by saying the statements were taken out of context, he really has a good message. Would the same people listen to a speech from a Ku Klux Knuts cross burning and try to put it into context to find some good points? Are they that ignorant?

Wright is a biggot and Mr. Obama seems to have no problem with that which makes me question his real views on the matter. Now, they can believe what they want to, I don't care, and they can be as biggoted as they want to also, I also don't care about that. But it is still racism and biggotry.

And no I don't give a plugged nickle what his web site says, if you believe everything on web sites then you really are ignorant.

wow
This thread is thick with ignorance.

To dmac: respect, for having an open mind.





uh,
I once saw a photo taken in the thirties when a relative witnessed the lynching of three young boys who were travelling through a small midwestern town with a circus.

I guess this would qualify as a "God damn America" moment, especially, if like Wright, they might have been relatives.

Oh, and
under the "laugh" part:

Listening to Medved pretend to be sincere

An admission
Here are moments when I thought to myself, "God Damn America"

Abu Ghraib
New Orleans
Rotting Vet Hospitals
4,000 young Americans dead in Iraq
Yoo's approval of torture memos (just released)
Bush's trample of the constitution



Here's when I thought to myself "only in America!"

The students who spend their vacations helping with New Orleans cleanup
Habitat for Humanity
American generosity (expressed in many ways, not on TH)
volunteerism at my local hospitals, schools, libraries and political events
American music; the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, the Met, the Seattle Ring Cycle

Here's when I have a great big laugh:

Reading Mike Adams
Watching Bush trying to be philosophical
Fox News
Feminist political theater

rob
“How can you say blacks for a white candidate at a higher rate???”

Historically blacks have supported white candidates more than whites have supported black candidates.How do you think many white Democrats have gotten elected? It’s quite obvious, they have had the loyal support of many black voters. Blacks help put Bill Clinton in office along with many others. However, until recently, whites (even in the Democratic party) have been less inclined to support black candidates.



Steve L: so tell me this...
you'd rather face Hillary & Bill Clinton in the general election than novice Obama?

If so then I'm all for it because the Clintons have a proven track record of defeating Repubs/Cons and kicking/handing them their arses...lol

be careful what you wish for.

Lumberjack to Tru
"Bush defeated Grannie Annie because he outpointed her on taxes, fees, educational and business policies. "

Yeah, and we all saw how well that's worked out for the country, haven't we?

T.C
“You're a beauty!

Hey! Do me a favor will you? Tell us again about the Wonderful Wright and Awful America. a Go ahead! Tell us about bad, bad America and that marvelous, charming guy, Wright. O.K.?”

I never said Wright was “wonderful” nor did I say America was “awful”. I simply said that Wright’s comments were based on facts in American history, and I listed these facts. Can you debunk any of the facts that I listed?

Anthony to SteveL
You said, "Your ignorant and oversimplification of the African American voting block is astounding. "

I was just about to post a similar sentiment but you have already said it better. I was shocked when I read SteveL's post, actually, although I don't know why I should have been.

It's true that the right-wing strategy of keeping Wright alive in the news will probably continue for quite a while as that is all they have. It's just that it's getting a little humorous. When I turned on the radio yesterday to hear Medved's outraged pleas to condemn Wright I was fairly astonished that he is still beating this horse, as Tru said, which died long ago.

The strategy is to make people think that Wright will be in the oval office if Obama is elected; to connect Obama's and Wright's name as much as possible so that less than intelleigent voters will think they are Siamese Twins. Transparent, and cheesy, and cynical, but pretty predictable with Medved.

Rob
“ McCain will get 45-60 percent max of the white vote. How can you say blacks for a white candidate at a higher rate???”

I’m talking about the votes that McCain has actually gotten in the primaries. Whites have overwhelmingly supported McCain in the primaries. This is obvious since Blacks, the Spanish, Asians, and Jews have all supported the Democratic Party. Who do you think has voted for McCain in all these primaries? It’s not blacks. It’s not the Spanish. It’s not Asians. It’s not even Jews. It has been primarily white men, and some white women. This is why I asked why blacks were overwhelmingly scrutinized for their support of Obama while whites have been absolved of any scrutiny for their overwhelming support for McCain. Say what you will about Democrats, but it is definitely a much more diverse voting block than Republican voting block.

that is why I never give up.....
dmac writes: Wednesday, April, 02, 2008 10:32 AM
+++++++++++++++

Thanks for being honest, this is the first real dialogue I have had on this forum, but I keep coming back. I can respect your viewpoint, at least it is even. You do admit that they excercise Freedom of Speech.

But since Sen Mccain is your candidate and you are very active in what a Preacher's influence may have on the candidates, I suggest you get more information about Pastor Hagee, because Sen Mccain seeked his endorsement.

I think that it is very relevant as to whether these forementioned Preachers served this country, especially when we talk about one's patriotism. The majority of folks who serve in the Military are rather patriotic but all do not agree in lock step with each other.

Obama No Empty Vessel
Much of the early criticism directed towards Obama was the "empty vessel" charge -- that the lighter-than-air platitudes repeated like mantras belied a man without any core substance. Now we are learning that Obama is not an empty vessel at all. He is chock full of ideas and beliefs, and it's turning out they are some of the most twisted and extreme ideologies one could find in this great land.

It is reported that his mother held extreme anti-American and anti-capitalist sentiments, so Obama was steeped in that at an early age. He cannot be blamed for his mother's flaws however, and should be given a pass for her views if he later rejected them. No one can help what family they are born into. The problem is that later in life he chose as his "church" Trinity United, which we are now learning teaches and celebrates some of the sickest and most divisive claptrap imaginable. It appears that his mother's anti-American and neo-Marxist ideology taught stuck to him like tar, after all.

At this point, we are only seeing glimpses of what Obama's vessel is filled with, but they are very disturbing glimpses to most rational people. Once his swooning media buddies start to do their job, we will learn much more about this man's questionable past and his extremist views. It will not be pretty.

Do we have a dog in this fight?
I find it amusing that Leftists like Left Angle and Tru Arnston and so on, are debating us about this Wright story, when it was the HILLARY camp that has been circulating it (and the Rezko story and anything else they can dig up) to stop Obama from getting the Dem nomination.

Technically, we don't have a dog in this fight. It's Obama vs. Hillary.

But we conservatives do have a good reason to give Hillary a hand. Anything we can do to keep the Democratic pot boiling is good for McCain.

And Hillary knows that. That's why she is working with right-wing media now, such as Fox News and the American Spectator, to spread her message.

Politics is a practical business.

Anthony Thomas
You're a beauty!

Hey! Do me a favor will you? Tell us again about the Wonderful Wright and Awful America. a Go ahead! Tell us about bad, bad America and that marvelous, charming guy, Wright. O.K.?

Also, be sure to tell us more about Wright and Hussein. Let's keep those names like white on paper. Let's keep Barack Hussein Obama and "preacher" Wright thisclose.

Let me ask you something. Hussein and Wright were in the same church for over 20 years, right? Yeah. That's what I thought.

Anyway, was Hussein among those standing and cheering every word from Wright? It's hard to tell because the video showed only the people behind Wright. I guess some in front were also cheering and standing. Maybe one of them was Barack Hussein Obama. Nah. Couldn't be. Then again.....


more questions
Sorry about the typos--trying to work while commenting

tru Arntson writes: Wednesday, April, 02
Don
For the last time, Obama did not make these statements, and man who did is not running for office.

Get used to it.

Thanks for the advice, but reviewing my comments, I don't think I ever claimed that oblama made the statements, so get your facts straight. Furthermore, I don't have to get used to anything that I don't like or disagree with.

oblama is a racist, plain an simple! He claims wright's sermions were taken out of context, when it is very clear to everyone but an idiot that wright meant what he said.

The proof is that there has been no effort on the part of wright to set the record straight. There has been no effort on the part of wright to apologize to anyone that might have been offended by his sermon. There was only a half-hearted speech by oblama that tells whitey that blacks have a right to be angry and they need to get used to it!

Personally, I am enjoying the spectacle of watching the party of self-righteous loons twist in the wind of their own hypocracy.

So you get used to it!

I'm lovin' it!

phil
“ I view all the "condemnations " you list as badges of honor- not worth defending to your ilk- if you can't understand Hiroshima -you're hopeless- bye bye”

I listed about 4 or 5 things, not one. Also, not everyone believed that the bombing of Japan “saved lives”. Only a sick mindset would rationalize the death of over 200,000 people from a nuclear bomb. Bye, bye.

more questions
---Resko, How did Obama purchase a house he could afford?
---As a potential President tell me more about your drug use as a teenager. How did you arrord expensive drugs?
---Tell me more about your immaculate conception.
---Tell me more about your fathers immaculate transportation.

dmac
The sermons in question can definately be defended, but considering he based his church on black theology is a completely different thing, something void of Christ.

I urge you, as a Christian, to consider that aspect as well.

Obama ???????
All you Pundits Just don't get it! Mr. Obama is riding the crest of the wave all the way to the White House with nothing to offer beyond Superb Oratory Skills, Tremendous Prose and Absolutely No Program or Plan of Action being presented.

Obama Sinking Further......
As a Kenyan-American, Obama should know that the Afrocentric fantasies and racist fairy tales expounded by Farrakhan, Rev. Wright and their semi-literate ilk are widely mocked and dismissed by African Christians.

Obama is running for President of the USA. He must be subjected to the same level of persistent scrutiny and unrelenting criticism as any other such candidate, regardless of one's skin color or genital shape.

Being black or being a woman offers no excuse and no rationale for double standards. get used to it ObamaRama fans.

anthony thomas
I view all the "condemnations " you list as badges of honor- not worth defending to your ilk- if you can't understand Hiroshima -you're hopeless- bye bye

SteveL
“Here's the issue in a nutshell: An awful lot of blacks in America are walking around believing that they are OWED endless compensation, perhaps even reparation, by White America.

And those blacks are voting for Obama specifically because they expect that as President, he will give them what they want--reparations from white America.”

Your ignorant and oversimplification of the African American voting block is astounding. So in a “nutshell” all blacks are voting for Obama to get reparations, how ridiculous. But I guess the 85-95 percent of whites who are voting for McCain are voting for him based purely on the issues with no ethnic prejudice, yea ok.

I love this scrutiny the black voting block has gotten for voting for Obama, while whites are absolved of this scrutiny for voting for McCain in overwhelming numbers, typical. The truth is blacks have voted for whites in elections at MUCH MUCH HIGHER rate than whites have voted for blacks in elections, yet blacks are scrutinized their motivations. Give me a break.

The great divider.

I agree, Michael... if you are running for President of the United States, questions like these MUST be answered.

Contrary to the wishes or the beliefs of some of our misguided posters, there is only one person who can end all of this.

And that is Obama himself.

But sadly, I believe that he will continue to evade and duck these kinds of questions. And in the end, he will be defeated for it. And he will only have himself to blame.

But in the process, Obama may indeed have set race relations back for more than a generation. And that is most tragic.

Simply put, most of Americans will in no way accept any candidate for POTUS who would refuse to repudiate and totally disassociate themselves from someone with these hateful views.

Even if that someone was a long-time mentor.




tru Arntson writes:
SteveL, Lumberjack
As for his governorship, look at the history. His new best friend Karl Rove put out rumors, most often in the form of brochures left under the windshield wipers of cars in church parking lots, the the incumbent governor was gay. After this happened, her ratings sank - call it the original swiftboat tactic.

but that begs the question: was it the kind of conservative judgement we see in Medved's column and on this thread that led to Bush's second win in '84?

Why would you think that independents and moderates would listen to you now, that your political "savvy" has left the country in shambles?

Do you happen to be from Texas? If not all you are doing is rehashing the same old discredited bullsh!t put out by the left. Bush defeated Grannie Annie because he outpointed her on taxes, fees, educational and business policies. Many of the Grannie Annie fees are still being paid. BTW, GWB first ran in 94 and was re-elected in a landslide in 98. Try to at least get some facts right.

Left Angle!
Go figure it out for yourself. It would be a waste of my time to try and convince you that all you believe is not true.

My only advice would be to search some place other than oblama's own website!

As if he is going to reveal information other than what he expects fools to swallow!

FIM!

Tru
Hmmm....

He was governor, of Texas, twice! I apologize, he had no experience...

phylo
I've read obama's books- well as much as I could of them.
He's a full blown socialist both in his views and voting record.
I need no more information to ignore him-
I haven't been "frightened by the preachings of his pastor- or the rampant agreement of his "flock"- I am however even more aware of what blacks in this country really think of "white America"- and so I'm making appropriate preparations

Don
For the last time, Obama did not make these statements, and man who did is not running for office.

Get used to it.

Rob
I can't speak for Left Angle, but I think what he has been saying is that as much as you try to push the idea that Wright is running for president, he isn't, and nobody cares what he thinks.

SteveL, Lumberjack
As for his governorship, look at the history. His new best friend Karl Rove put out rumors, most often in the form of brochures left under the windshield wipers of cars in church parking lots, the the incumbent governor was gay. After this happened, her ratings sank - call it the original swiftboat tactic.

but that begs the question: was it the kind of conservative judgement we see in Medved's column and on this thread that led to Bush's second win in '84?

Why would you think that independents and moderates would listen to you now, that your political "savvy" has left the country in shambles?

I'm sorry to disappoint
all the raving lunatic liberals on TH, but this issue will remain a topic of discussion everyday until November! As a God fearing patriotic Repub/Con I look forward to the next day's articles to see how successful the writer was in repackaging the obama/wright issue!

The reason you want it to stop is because it is a damning statement about who b.hussein oblama really is! You also know that it will be a bigger thorn in his side, if he successfully wins the demo nomination, better know as the biggest liars event!

So deal with it! You and the MSM can wish it under the carpet, but it will leave a big bump in the rug for all God fearing patriotic Americans, Repub/Con/Dems to trip over until November.

You're better candidate would be Ms. Sir Edmund Hillary! Even with all of her tall tales, at least she is not a racist and you don't have to make excuses for who she is!

Steve L: a response
first of all your supposition on black americans is absolutely ridiculous..

furthermore tell us exactly how Obama is going to accomplish this feat you propose...?

It'll Stick

The Dems are correct. The issue will fade into memory with the help of the biased MSM. However, the unanswered questions and Wright legacy will be foremost in the minds of Independent and mainstream voters in November. The McCain campaign will see to that.

agree with Phylo to a point
As a very conservative republican--socially, fiscally, and foreign policy-- and as a conservative Baptist, I lean more to Phylo's way of thinking on the fairness that Wright has been given. I have no doubt that his sermons have been cherry-picked for the most inflamatory statements (by Clinton operatives, and used opportunistically by conservatives), especially after seeing how Hewitt, et al did the same to Huckabee and everyone else to Romney. However, I believe it is as fair as any one has gotten from the Left. And I expect such behavior in the political arena.

But Obama has a golden opportunity to turn this to his own advantage if the situation truly is as Phylo says. He is only handling it slightly better than Romney did. I think he should be actively engaging Medved and putting his own positive spin in his answer to the questions. He had a good start with his speech, but seems to be shrinking like Romney rather than using it as a springboard to demonstrate his desire for unity and understanding.

I am only lukewarm on McCain. Obama could never get my vote by virtue of his policy stands, but he could go a long way to lulling me to sleep by vigorously addressing this Wright issue and assuring me he isn't a Sharpton or Jackson underneath his nonthreatening demeanor.

for impeachbush
impeachbush writes: "If you voted for the neocon criminal who has been running our country for the past 8 years, it is no wonder that you cannot vote for a decent man like Barack Obama."

According to the latest polls, Obama is getting clobbered among white DEMOCRATS in Pennsylvania. They're willing to hold their nose and vote for the liar, Hillary, rather than vote for the Obama-Wright ticket.

Go argue with them.

SteveL