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Wednesday, February 27, 2008
Michael Medved :: Townhall.com Columnist
Is Islam Itself the Enemy?
by Michael Medved
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  Is America’s “war on terror” in reality a war on Islam itself?

   Most Muslim radicals insist that it is – as do many patriotic conservatives in this country who believe that any attempts to woo Islamic moderates, or to whitewash the violent and menacing essence of the Koran, distort the true nature of the current conflict.

  Some of those who see Islam in all of its manifestations as our ultimate, implacable foe took me to task (in e-mail and phone calls to my radio show) for my recent support for U.S. recognition of the newly independent Muslim-majority state of Kosovo.

  To these zealots, it hardly matters that the leading European powers (Britain, France, Germany) strongly support Kosovo’s separation from Serbia, or that the most outspoken opposition to Kosovar independence comes from the increasingly anti-American Putin regime in Russia. To some observers, it’s also irrelevant that ethnic Albanians (mostly non-religious, secularized Muslims) comprise more than 90% of Kosovo’s population and this overwhelming majority ardently desires its own democratic nation state. Though Orthodox Christian Serbs make up only 5% of the populace in Kosovo, critics of Bush administration Balkan policy insist that this embattled minority deserves U.S. protection and support. They discount fervent Kosovar promises that the new nation will guarantee the rights and security of its Christian residents; skeptics believe that such assurances mean nothing when provided by Muslim leaders, no matter how secular or pro-American.

  “You of all people should recognize that there is no such thing as a ‘moderate Muslim,’” one correspondent scolded me. “Moderation and Islam contradict one another. Anyone who denies that contradiction is either a fool or a dupe. The tragedy in Kosovo represents just the latest example of state department mistakes based on the consistent denial that Islam, wherever it exists, is the eternal enemy of democratic values and Western Civilization.”

   This increasingly popular absolutist position – whatever its historical, theological or anthropological basis – represents a threat to our short-term security and our long-term success in the very real battle against Islamism. If we accept, let alone embrace, the proposition that Islam itself is our enemy, then all of the world’s 1.3 billion Muslims become enemies of the United States, and doom us to unending and un-winnable conflict.

   It’s true that some serious scholars both inside and outside the Muslim world (or “Umma”) have pointed to Koranic passages and interpretations that seem to command perpetual jihad against non-believers, but other authorities (again, including Muslims and outsiders alike) emphasize more tolerant, less bloodthirsty strains in the teachings of Mohammed. The defenders of Islam point to a few peaceful and surprisingly diverse Muslim societies (Medieval Spain, or al-Andaluz, represents perhaps the most celebrated example) that contrast with the aggressive, convert-or-die approach that appears repeatedly in Islamic history. Islamic apologists point to similar contradictions in Christian history, with literally millions of heathens forcibly converted, enslaved or put to death, not to mention the appalling blood-letting between Catholics and Protestants who slaughtered one another for centuries despite their similar proclamations of loyalty to Jesus.

  For Christianity, however, the worst excesses of violent fanaticism in the name of faith occurred four hundred years ago while for Islam they took place yesterday – with suicide bombings, riots, mutilations and tyrannical theocracies in every corner of the globe. No fair-minded person can look at the role played by Muslim faith in contemporary politics, economics, culture, or human rights without questioning the frequently dysfunctional nature of Islamic ideas.

   Nevertheless, any public proclamation of overall enmity toward Islam would harm America’s cause in the world at large and undermine our security at home. This approach damages our interest in five ways--

1)      It confirms the anti-American propaganda of terrorist leaders. Osama bin Laden, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and their associates have argued for years that the United States, “the Great Satan,” is the leader of a global conspiracy to destroy Islam and oppress Muslims. Any statement of hostility to Muslim faith would confirm the claims of our most dangerous enemies, enhancing their prestige and credibility. We also harm ourselves greatly if we declare that the idea of a “moderate Muslim” is a contradiction in terms: this echoes the al-Qaeda line almost precisely, as we agree with our deadliest enemies that anyone who chooses to help us or to oppose terrorism is somehow inauthentic in his Koranic commitment.

2)      It alienates our allies. Most Islamic societies fall far short of democratic norms or even civilized standards, but several of them provide crucial assistance in the war against radicalism. Jordan, Turkey, Egypt, Pakistan, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia and other Muslim nations may be far from perfect as allies, but they would each be profoundly dangerous as adversaries. Our economic and military interests around the world depend to a great extent on some cooperation with Muslim nations and official condemnation of the faith they cherish would make such cooperation vastly more difficult if not altogether impossible. No one’s entirely comfortable with the idea of more than sixty nuclear warheads in the hands of President Musharraf of Pakistan, but imagine those nukes controlled by Islamist leaders of the future with reason to believe that the U.S. wanted to wipe out Muslim belief.

3)      It puts the societies of Western Europe at profound risk.  With growing and powerful Muslim populations in France, the United Kingdom, Germany and most other European powers, an American declaration of hostility to Islam would force those societies into an impossible choice: either disassociate yourself completely from your necessary American ally, or prepare to suppress the well-established Islamic communities in your midst. Of course, it would be better for our European friends if their Muslim millions simply packed up and went home, but since there’s no chance they will do so any attempt to officially disparage Islam, or even to force instantaneous assimilation and secularization, becomes dangerous and destabilizing.

4)      It destroys our tradition of religious pluralism. If we proclaim Islam (or any other religion) as an “enemy of the state,” then we’ve clearly abandoned our cherished First Amendment tradition of neutrality among religious faiths. Constitutional scholars may argue as to whether government may encourage a generalized sense of religiosity or reverence, but no student of the First Amendment suggests that government may select one specific faith for either promotion or persecution. Studies suggest that American Muslims represent a mostly prosperous and assimilated segment of the population, but public hostility to Islam would encourage a disturbing tend toward radicalization already apparent among some young Muslims. If Islam is our enemy, should Homeland Security start closing down mosques? The very idea represents an obvious violation of the First Amendment’s “free exercise” clause.

5)      It pushes us toward a never-ending war with no exit strategy. Even those of us who have always supported the Iraq and Afghanistan wars wish that the government had learned one of the key lessons of Vietnam which once comprised a key element of the “Powell Doctrine”: never go to war without a clear, practical plan for victory and a reliable exit strategy. If we define Islam as our enemy, then what, exactly, is our feasible strategy for wiping out a resilient religious faith that’s proven disturbingly durable for more than 1,400 years? Even if we succeed in reducing the numbers and influence of the world’s Muslims we’ll still face at the very least, say, ten-percent of the current population: or more than 130 million believers. If that formidable Islamic remnant sees America as responsible for the elimination (either physically or spiritually) of most of their brothers and sisters in faith, the terrorist threat we face may actually intensify, rather than recede.

In all areas of human conflict or competition, the divide-and-conquer strategy works. In warfare, politics, international relations, business or all other contests, you win by uniting those on your side of the battle lines and dividing your adversaries.

Pushing the idea that Islam is our enemy does exactly the opposite: dividing the United States from allied states, and dividing those states at home, while instantly uniting our enemies.

Recognizing that we simply can’t succeed in “a war against Islam” isn’t to say that the followers of Mohammed have built “a religion of peace,” or even that Islam deserves identical respect to other great religions. In truth, even fair-minded Muslims must recognize that Islam today inspires unique concern with its well-documented propensity toward violence, radicalism and authoritarianism. We should encourage any and all Muslim voices against such extremism, rather than insisting that they don’t exist or can’t exist.

The statement that “Islam itself is the enemy” may deliver thrills and satisfaction with its tough, uncompromising, provocative ring, but the advance of that that idea among American conservatives and others constitutes a far more dire threat to U.S. interests than to the power or influence of the terrorists.  

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About The Author
Michael Medved's daily syndicated radio talk show reaches one of the largest national audiences every weekday between 3 and 6 PM, Eastern Time. Michael Medved is the author of eleven books, including the bestsellers What Really Happened to the Class of '65?, Hollywood vs. America, Right Turns and, most recently, The Ten Big Lies About America.
 
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BBC's Muslim rewriting history

Islam the enemy
Medved and all the other commentators who refused to acknowlage that Islam is the true enemy are playing into the hands of the enemy. They are refusing to see what needs to be done. Islam needs to be outlawed in the Western world and all muslims sent back to their muslim countries. The whole world needs to isolate them.

Michael's Mic Needs Viagra
Islam has been a militant act of piracy since its inception. It was created by a lying, thieving, murderer and its credo not a religious text but a War Manifesto.

The aggressive Muslims, those who rise to power with the Koran in one hand and a sword in the other, will always be the enemy to world peace.

Medved has also gone mentally flaccid concerning Kosovo, or the Serbs versus the KLA. Over ten years, there was no Serbian genocide of Kosovoans. In fact, there are 100,000 Serbs missing in Kosovo . . . and the Clinton/Clark/NATO air strikes on Serbian citizens and civilian targets were worthy of war crime trials, not the fate of Milosevich, who died in prison defending himself, never successfully convicted in the Hague.

However, weak minds like Medved continue to hide from the truth of Islamic history and the millions slaughtered.

Instead, he calls forth that of Christians from 400 years ago. Well, it is true that the French succeeded in wiping out France's jewery. But that was out of nationalism and abuse of religious control by the government, not of Christ's teachings.

The abuses of Spain in the inquisition were the same. And the genocide in the Americas were more out of previous Islamic domination and influence than biblical or religious edict. The first Spaniards were after gold and family influence.

Are the Irish the enemy
O'bama is a good Irish name, so is McCain.

Independece of Kosovo
Mr. Medved, Thogh you have written a well reasoned article, you have missed the over riding point of this issue. Namely, whenever a populatin reaches critical mass size, it will justify seperation and independence from a particular nation state. By that logic we should be supporting independence for then Muslims in South Thailand, French speakiing Quebec, The Moros in The Phillipines, The Basques in northern Spain,The Waloons in Belgium, The Cathlics in Southern Germany,etc. and in short order the soon to be Spanish majority in The Southwest!! Your support of what amounts to a return to tribalism. Not a good idea.

Ms. aDNA.
Keep Wondering. There is work to do.




Junks
Actually, go jump off a bridge! :)

Why do you like TH? Wouldn't Moveon be more to your taste? I have wondered for a while.

Ah ha what?
A fine how do you do to you too.

Oh.
ah ha! Well how do you do too. :D

Fair enough Ms. aDNA
You ask your loaded question. I ask mine.
As far as barbs and insults go, come on. It's actually polite in some areas of the country to say "ehh bite me". It's a formal greeting sort of like "Aloha", "Shalom" or even "Y'all come back now, ya hear". At this site the formal greeting is "Welcome, You Liberal Muslim Commie Elitist Scumbag" so no whining about the insult wagon that rolls in every night.
Yeah, nice talking to you too.

@ Junkyard Dawg
Junks,

First, I am most gratified to learn that you will be voting for Ralph Nader.

Second, concerning your question, "Will you set aside your bias when Obama is elected?" I must admit to being a little hurt. While I have had my share of barbs from you--Confederate, frauline, coming from an "obese clan," and then there was shaver, whatever that means--this "bias" comment is over the transom even for you.

No, I will not set aside my bias against Obama's race, because I do not have any such thing! But also insinuated in your question is the idea that I would set aside my convictions to get a President who is black. No matter which way you look at it--up, down, sideways--Obama promises an unmitigated social, economic, foreign-policy, and judicial catastrophe for the US. Did you really think I would set aside my beliefs so lightly for fashionable reasons?

At any rate, see you around Townhall sometime.

Ms. aDNA have a little faith.
Sin based laws are more litigious. Sin is subjective to each individual faith. The state/government has a big enough bureacracy without the hierarchal doctrines of each individual religion. Rather than parse the definition of each sin, the government throws the notion of it out. It keeps things simpler.
For example many people believe in Karma and think we need more Karma in government. If they all get up and vote to enforce Karmic Law the government would be forced to assign a "Department of Karma" which would be subject to review by a bi-partisan "Karma Subcommitee", but ultimately held accountable by the Law of Karma(which is a non-government law). Feel free to substitute the words Karma for any denomination and its pillars, commandments, or laws.
Mam you live in a country where you are free to go to church 24/7. You can express your faith where and whenever you please with the backing of the government. They protect your rights too.
Oh and mam, try to take a look at the dollar bill you donate to your church. It turns out that god doesn't care whose religion is pictured on their money, god'll take it, as long as it is backed up by the government that prints it. The government gets God's money back when God messes with the government. (In the most litigious of ways the non-confomists are tricked into giving up God's money.)
Hey wait a minute, you didn't even try to answer my question.

Pseudo Bible scholars...
To Sophie the immoral...

You, in particular have a pechant for attempting to interpret Biblical verse to suit your own sophomoric arguments. Catholic school trained (nothing more frustrating than an "EX" Catholic)?
Well dear, you forgot one of the most relevent passages in your anti-Christian diatribes:

2 Peter, Chapter 1- "Understanding this first: That no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation."

But to the main theme--
Of course Islam is the enemy, the most recent Koranic verses are the most militant and Islamic scholars have time and time again advised that the more recent, the more accurate. Without Islam, founded by a pedophile, the world would be a safer place (the battles of Kosovo, Lepanto, and others would have never occurred). While conflicts will always occur between nations and peoples and with all the misery that has occurred in the misguided interpretations of faiths for centuries, nothing compares with the threat of Islam...to peace, freedom, science, and above all individual liberty.

@ Junks
Junks,

There is the small matter of a thing called "doctrine," which must come up in any discussion of church and state.

The doctrine across the board for Protestant, Catholic and Jewish religions is that there is such a thing called "sin." (Homosexuality is among them.)

The gospel according to the church is that sin is deadly, but the one who repents and believes can and will be saved from it.

The gospel according to the state is that there is no sin, and that the one who says so can and will be sued for it.

You do favor the establishment of a religion, Junkyard Dawg, along with very large, litigious consequences for nonconformance to the doctrine of the State.

Good grief! Doesn't Medved
know how Serbian Orthodox shrines have been desecrated? Doesn't he know that the Albanian leadership is involved with heroine trafficking? What planet is he living in? We should call the conflict "Clinton's War" because that is what it was and is. Bush should have stayed out of this.

That's a loaded question Ms. aDNA
Religion has plenty of freedom. No taxes and freedom to believe god is a gourd is the right of any church. Many common values of most religions are imbedded in the Constitution. I suppose if a majority of people, states, and politicians voted to make a particular denomination the official religion and ratified the Constitution it'd be ok with me, but that'll will never happen. The left's defense mechanisms will kick in and they are more powerful than any god. I believe that we are and will always be a Christian nation. Yet that faith was not spread by the government and it's not the government's job to promote any specific faith. I think you and I could agree that the government wouldn't do a very good job at that. According to most Conservatives the government doesn't do a good job at pretty much anything. Proving me wrong would be quite a quandry for the bad government argument.
Now I have a question for you. Will you set aside your bias when Obama is elected? I've never seen anything like this political phenom. The utter annihilation of racism is an American thing so he gets my vote in the primary. The weird thing is a few of my good friends are consumate Dittoheads and they actually said they'd vote for Obama over McCain but would never vote for Hillary.
I'm beside myself about Ron Paul. He's too Conservative for people that trumpet their Conservative ideology!? I must be missing something. Ron Paul was your dark horse and you folks shut him down hard. I have "Lefty" friends that love him.
I'll probably be that one guy who votes for Nader.
Oh and no I don't think there should be a religious litmus test when running for office. I'd like to the first Shintoist president, but that's just wishful thinking again.

Yo! Crawfish.
Yup... AMD and AIMD. Mostly West Coast.

What is this, Junks?
Junks, will you keep the church from voting, to keep the true purity of the State?

Should there be a religious test for running for office?

wuv, aDNA

Being right makes toes tap.

I commented that some Muslims are a bit overbearing with their beliefs as are any religious zealots. I was just letting folks know we believe in keeping them in check too with that crazy ole "separation of church and state" riggamoroll.
Oddly there are a lot of Muslim citizens. They are learning that religious fanatism doesn't get very far in this country. Ask anyone in Waco. There is no enforced Sharia Law on the books and there never will be.
May they all drink Kool-Aid the next time Hail Bop comes around.

Junks
Now you already know I do not have a single Confederate bone in my body. Pure 100% Union aDNA here.

So tell me about yourself, Junkyard Dawg. I want you to know I can work out a nice reconstruction deal for you, you big lib.

What makes your toe tap these days?

reply to soulsamurai
I notice that you've become a convert to the latest silly expression among conservativs--"liberal fascism."

My father, who served in, and was permanently disabled by wounds he suffered in, WWII had no idea, alas, that he was really fighting to protect "liberal fascism" (aka, the government of the United States) from what I guess has to be called "fascist fascism," or maybe, since he was active from D-Day to VE Day, would have to be called "Nazi fascism."

So many fascisms, so little time. The "liberal fascism" label is offensive to any WWII vet, as it should be to anyone who has served our country. If you conservatives are correct, the US has been under the "liberal fascists" for many years, which means vets from Korea, Vietnam, and the Middle East have all been fighting for the "fascist" cause. Do any of you red-blooded, manly right-wingers find this as disgusting as I do? Probably not, or you wouldn't be right-wingers, now would you?

I have a suggestion: conservative historical revisionists should start calling WWII the "Great Intra-Fascist War of 1938-1945." Happy now?

aDNA
You do have a sense of humor. That's not very Confederate of you.

I think the real war is...
With the Left here in this country.

Islamic Fascism is a serious threat - but we will never be defeated by Islamic terrorists directly.

We can, however defeat ourselves, and that is why conservatives number 1 focus should be on strengthening America first.

Defeat the liberals & progressives who are leading us down the path of socialism. Liberal fascism poses a greater threat to America than Islamic Fascism. If the Liberals win the war here, then you can be sure that the Islamo-Fascists will become a much more dangerous threat - and will become even more difficult to defeat, because we will have already weakened ourselves to the point that we cannot take an effective or offensive position against them, because we failed to stand when we had the chance, and we chose the path of weakness and appeasement instead.

Make a stand now - don't go with the crowd - The Liberals and John McCain can advocate for each other - The NYT is posting phony, factless attack ads that don't really hurt McCain because they like McCain they always have. They'll pretend to hate him now that he's the Republican front-runner, but ask yourself who do they really fear? Who do they really hate? Who is still in the race the MSM won't even hardly mention or acknowledge? Who will not apologize for being conservative? Who will put the focus back where it belongs?

Voter Independence Day is Coming!

http://www.mikehuckabee.com/?FuseAction=Blogs.View&Blog_id= 1526

Historian
"The real reason that you are afraid to tell the truth is because you fear that Islam may kill you if you say the truth."

What, Medved is worried that Muslims will track him down and kill him? If he was that paranoid, why would he write about Islam at all?

Taft
As far as "Islamic" denunciations go, we're mostly talking about anecdotal evidence anyway. The few, broad denunciations I've seen are thin and contain sketchy and (what one could consider) duplicitous language. Again, this is not surprising give the existence of taqiyya.

Re: Jesus. First, He didn't have a "philosophy." And reducing it to only a few sentences is to circumscribe the un-containable. The Faith is simple, but not, at the same time. To water it down to a few, humanistic platitudes is a bit iffy, at best.

the sinner,

Charles

Is Islam the Enemy
Mihael Medved you were wrong to approve of the formation of another Islamic state torn from the Heart of Christian Serbia.
Your opposition to stating openly that Sharia Islam, not Terrorism, is the enemy, because saying the truth will make many people upset, does obviate the fact that Islam IS the enemy. If we do not tell our people who the enemy is, Islam will defeat us.
The real reason that you are afraid to tell the truth is because you fear that Islam may kill you if you say the truth.

And besides, I know
you are madly in love with Ann Coulter.

Hey junks.
You are right, and I shall try to be good, in fact on my best behaviour, because you deserve it, in the future.

But I cannot claim to understand all you said. Junks, you are a treasure!

Skip a silver dollar.
Across a river and tell me where it lands. Did you ever remember why December twentyfifth seventeen seventy six was where Christmas was born as a legend?
It wasn't the October Revolution or the Boleshevik Revolution. It was the Revolution of Sinter Klause.
Gesunteight mein haus frau. We know when you are sleeping and we know when you're awake, we know if you've been bad or good. So be good for goodness sake.....

Junks
Yes, those bad ol Hessians were fighting us.

Some of them converted and fought for us though. So should you, Junks.

Hope you are doing well, wherever you are!

aDNA
AP Headline 12/25/1776: Guy on Dollar Bill Slaughters Christians on Christmas Day!
Did he conclude that Christians were the problem?

A knowledge upgrade for Svirk, pt. 2
Here’s some more, and I can get many more after that. It’s absurd that you, if your are a Muslim, claim a lack of familiarity with these concepts.

From another Islamic website, the definition given to “Dar al-Harb”

“Dar al-Harb (Domain of War) refers to the territory under the hegemony of unbelievers, which is on terms of active or potential belligerency with the Domain of Islam, and presumably hostile to the Muslims living in its domain.”

http://www.islam101.com/theology/index.htm

Next, a good discussion in “First Things”

“Jihad and Just War”
by James Turner Johnson
First Things (June/July 2002).


http://www.firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=2034


Finally, I hope you’ll accept as an authority on Islam, Dr. Mustafa Ceric, the Reis-ul-Ulema (President of the Council of Ulema” in Bosnia-Herzsgovina. “Ulema” (also “Ulama”) refers to the legal scholars who defend Islam. In an interview, Dr. Ceric explains:

“As far as Islam is concerned, all countries belong to one of the following categories: Dar al-Islam, Dar al-Harb or Dar as-Sulh . Each and every Muslim should know the difference between the three groupings and decide which one they are resident in.

In the first category, Islam must be implemented to the furthest extent. Islam can never be implemented perfectly, but in dar al-Islam the government ought to try their best and continue trying; Islam is an ideal that people in nations in this category must strive for.

In a dar al-Harb state, non-Muslims form the majority of the population and Islam is not recognised by the legislature. Hence it cannot be implemented to any degree. This category applies to most Western states.

In the third, intermediary category, Sulh, the situation is such that Islam or the shariah cannot be implemented fully, but the government should endeavour to put it into practice as much as possible.”

http://www.angelfire.com/hi/nazam/Aceric.html

Charles the Hammer
I've got many denunciations by Islamic leaders as well. I think we're crossing our wires here on the Bible thing. Really, fundamentally, Jesus' philosophy could be narrowed down to just a few sentences, that all the gospels agree on.

Taft
The problem is that your link is hardly proof of "nearly all" Muslims condemning 9/11. There were some, but very few came from actual organizations or leaders within Islam. And often, when they did, they were tempered with specific language (like the attempt of various clerics to "condemn" terrorism by condemning actions that were not "sanctioned" by Islam).

I also have much doubt due to taqiyya.

Oh, there are thousands upon thousands of interpretations of the Bible, if not millions. Doesn't mean they are all right. Of course there is only one *completely* correct understanding of the Faith, of which the Bible is part (and the main authority).

Though, I'd like to know what "one true meaning" shines through? After all, there are many who see a lot of different meanings shining through.

the sinner,

Charles

AKAQI
There is nothing we can do about the Muslim immigrants who are already here.

We cannot do anything about the converts except shame and belittle them for loving a man who had sex with a child.

Christians are taught that King David SINNED horribly, was punished severely, and shouldn't be emulated. Muslims, on the other hand, are taught to admire AND emulate Mohammed's many sins.

Muslims need to be treated like we treat American Nazi sympathizers: with contempt.

The point is not to let any more into the country. Muslims are the main cause for the government molesting of citizens at our airports and the police-state apparatus being built by REPUBLICANS (who should know better, but appear to be too damn stupid to see it).

Intead of the doing the obvious: banning Muslim immigration and watching American Muslims like hawks, we create a totalitarian police-state against the other 99.5 percent of non-Muslim Americans.



TAFT (this reply is for you)

Talk is cheap. I'm not impressed with a Muslim's denunciations of 9/11 unless it includes the statement "I am no longer a Muslim".

History is my guide as to what to expect from Muslims. Islam did not spread across the CHRISTIAN middle east becase Christians were attacking Islamic peoples and they in turn had to defend themselves from it. Quite the opposite. The Muslim killers and thieves (following in the footsteps of Mohammed) flooded the outside territories, and violently and ruthlessly took them IN THE NAME OF ALLAH.




Charles the Hammer
You picked Palestinians. Hers proof of my contention.
http://rememberruss.blogspot.com/

I don't agree that there are many interpretation's of the Gospels. One meaning shines through perfectly. I purposely don't get into specifics and claim no personal know it all interpretation. If you are a believer, your blessed. Thanks. Oh, Iranian were very upset by 9/11 too.

AndyR
I do love many aspects of Western culture. However, I think think that there are fundamental flaws in ways that Japanese culture has never seen, and vice versa. I blame the West's great issues on the egocentrism and worship of man that originated, though just, in the introduction of scholasticism in the West by the church in Rome and made worse by the Enlightenment, the Reformation, the Renaissance, etc. It has been a long, slow march into self-worship that started as that small seed in the late 9th and early to mid-10th century in the West.

I agree in disagreeing with cultural relativism, but I also think that there are serious issues with all cultures.

the sinner,

Charles

Taft
Which interpretation of the Bible? Your own? Which, of course, means whichever pieces of others' traditions you've borrowed from that most precisely fit your own predilections? Which translation? After all, each translation is, in truth, an interpretation.

As I stated to Buck, this is a discussion for a different venue and a different time, but we can go back and forth all day with quotes from the Bible to support our own positions and be diametrically opposed. This, of course, is just the result of the Reformation - every man a pope unto himself, and the errors of the church in Rome made that much worse by being spread to everyone, individually.

I would also say that your claim that nearly every Muslim in the world went out of his or her way to denounce 9/11 is beyond inaccurate and delves into the insanely fictitious. Those dancing in the streets of cities in so-called "Palestine" were definitely not doing any condemning of the actions. Those murals that popped up all over the world in celebration of the attack were not apologizing.

As I have said, repeatedly, there are those Muslims who don't want to follow the tenets of Islam and engage in jihad - I have no problem with them. I will still fight said form of Islam, but with love and prayer. However, those who would attack non-Muslims physically, through acts of terror and war, I believe should be fought in like manner.

the sinner,

Charles

Charles the Hammer
I can see your point Charles. The nearest USA gets to it is Barely Legal, and certain mother's eagerness to dress their six-year olds up as working girls.

I read that in the West the women try to LOOK as young as possible, whereas in Japan it's more the done thing for women to ACT young - the giggling, covering up mouth with hand etc.

And you're quite right, moralising either way doesn't help. Though I'm happy to make a case for Western culture being 'better' in a non-cultural relativist sense. I'd take a culture where people mis-use freedoms over one where those freedoms don't exist.

Buck
So, you speak from your own ego? (And I don't mean ego as in the colloquial "you're a jerk" definition, but I mean from yourself, outward. That is, the more archaic - these days - definition). You're a member of the church in Rome and don't look to the pope for your direction?

Of course I don't have a problem with the members of the church in Rome. I do refute the papal claims of authority and, needless to say, of infallibility. (Here, I cite two popes - Honorius, who was anathematized, rightly, as a monothelite, and St. Gregory the Great, who said that any bishop who called himself the bishop of bishops was the forerunner to the Antichrist).

In the *ecclesiastical* sense, I don't think members of the church in Rome OR Proddies are Christians. Members of Christian "sects," maybe, but not of the One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church as founded by Christ. That, however, is an entirely different discussion.

But, no - I don't think those commonly referred to as "catholics" are evil or lapdogs of the devil, as some really whacked-out Protestant groups have claimed.

the sinner,

Charles

AndyR
I do know that 80% of internet sites for child pornography originate in Japan, and approximately 80% of all child porn originates in Japan. I do know that Japan has a strange culture where "school girls" are considered the taste makers - because old men pay them for their "company," with the implicit acquiescence of the girls' families, giving the school girls massive amounts of disposable money. I have even read articles about college-age young ladies wishing they were school girls again because of all the money and attention they received from the old men.

This is more than just sickness, it is a cultural defect, in my view. The West has no such long-standing obsession, let alone a culturally acceptable version of, child pornography. Don't moralize either way regarding Japan being better or worse - every culture has its flaws. The West is in its egocentrism and worship of the human intellect - at least Japan understands knowing your place.

the sinner,

Charles

svirk
First, there is a problem in your methodology: you cannot equate the Psalms with the Koran to support your position, because you are then giving equal weight to the absolute veracity of both those texts when they cannot be so viewed. The Mohammed borrowed, liberally, from both the OT and certain Christians (though, according to St. John of Damascus, the latter borrowing was clearly through an Arian heretic)there is no way that you can honestly use Muslim sacred texts in combination with Psalms in order to justify your position without eliminating the claims to being the Truth in both. Basically, you reduce them to ideological tracts that are nothing more than yet another product of man and, thus, worthless in any sense of real "T"ruth.

Second, even your quotes from the Psalms can be disputed - 37:9 can be read "inherit the earth," not "land." This would be a real problem for your theory regarding "land" representing the Holy Land. Also, according to Holy Tradition, your theory does not fly, as Psalm 37 looks forward to judgment, not our current, temporal situation.

the sinner,

Charles

AFDoc
"the world's largest FALSE religion"

All religious people see other religions as false. There's no evidence for one over the other. And to atheists ALL religions are false.

ISLAM IS THE ENEMY
I am saddened to read Medved serve as an apologist for the world's largest FALSE religion, I usually cheer his opinions. This has been convered more thoroughly by previous posters like Charles the Hammer. Having been deployed to the middle-east twice, I can assure you that if Islam itself is not crushed, all of your grand or great-grandaughters will be wearing burkas or hajibs.

A knowledge upgrade for Svirk pt 1

While you are correct in saying that the phrases “dar al-Harb” and “dar al-Islam”do not appear in the Qu’ran, you are being quite disingenuous in implying that they have no importance in Islam. By analogy, the phrase “Holy Trinity” does not appear in the Christian New Testament, but this has not stopped Christians from formulating religious doctrines concerning it and finding texts supporting it in the Bible.

The concepts of “dar al-Harb” and “dar al-Islam” have been crucial in Islamic theology and legal theory for many centuries.

If you are a Muslim, you should know that this pair of concepts was formulated by Abu Hanifah (699-767), who founded the Sunni Hanafi school of Islamic jurisprudence (fiqh). He was one of the Tabi’een—the second generation of Muslims and is considered the greatest of the Four Great Imam.

I’ll have to cite some sources and authorities, so here we go.

First, Bernard Lewis, noted expert on Islam. In Bernard Lewis, "The Multiple Identities of the Middle East" Schocken Books, New York, 1998, pp.121-122. for Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb

Next, from an encyclopedia edited by prominent American sociologist of religion Robert Wuthnow, "Encyclopedia of Politics and Religion," ed. Robert Wuthnow. 2 vols. (Washington, D.C.: Congressional Quarterly, Inc., 1998), 425-426.

http://www.cqpress.com/context/articles/epr_jihad.html


Next, from a Muslim website. When you get there, click on “A Dictionary of Jihad” for entries on both expressions.
"The Disbelievers' Guide to Kafr,
Fitnah, and Fasad fil-Ardh"
http://www.geocities.com/ibniblis/ .

More to follow


Most not all.
Most terrorists do claim to be Muslim, but not all. The Tamil Tigers, FARC, the Shining Path, the Maoists in Nepal, etc.

Also a good many of the conflicts can't be boiled down to simply a religious nature, be like saying the Pacific War was between Shinto and Christians--that statement is mostly true, but the war had little to do with the fact that Japan was Shinto and the US was largely Christian .

Many of these have more to do with things like self-determination more so than religion (e.g. Xinjiang, Chechnya, Aceh). And in the case of Aceh, it is a conflict between a Muslim territory and a Muslim nation.

Understanding the Koran
The koran and Peace

"The fourth chapter of the Quran, "Women," addressed the early Muslim community in Medina during the 620s, at a time when they were being attacked by the powerful pagan Meccans, who were trying to wipe them out. The Quran repeatedly commands the Muslims to defend themselves from these Meccan infidels and polytheists, who worshipped star goddesses (think Venus) and refused to permit the new monotheistic teachings of Muhammad. The Quran objects on spiritual grounds to the Meccans' polytheism, but it was only when the Meccans tried to ethnically cleanse the Muslims that it commanded them to fight back."

Charles the Hammer
"Japan also has vending machines with used panties in it and bars where the drinks are poured from the sexual orifices of women. So, should that put the US to shame, too?"

America has by far the largest porn industry in the world, three times larger than Hollywood. So you can be rest assured that USA puts Japan to shame in that regard.

Dark Matter

"It is time that Muslims and Christians recognized just how similar they are — the fate of the world depends on it. That's the message being sent out today by 138 Muslim leaders and scholars in an open letter to their Christian counterparts saying that world peace hinges on greater understanding between the two faiths."

Just about every Muslim in the world went our of their way to denounce 9/11 and terrorism.

Muslims
"There should be a permanent ban on Muslim immigration and no visas offered to the Muslim people. "

And what about the millions of American muslims? Going to re-open Tula Lake and detain them and deport them to..oh I don't know...Nigeria? And how do you think Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Azerbaijan and Libya will react--these are the 2nd, 5th, 7th, 8th, 11th, 12th and 13th largest exporters of oil to the US. You want to pay $15 dollars a gallon when these seven states cut off all exports of oil to the US--get ready for oil shock III.

And how will you know who is a Muslim..you can ask, but people can lie, no? How will you know who is a Muslim from Malaysia, Indonesia, the Philippines, Thailand, Singapore, Kosovo, Bosnia, Albania, India, China, Russia, Suriname, Trinadad and Tabago and a host of other countries throughout the world? And what about those muslims from the visa exempt countries..going to ask people as they land..maybe add it to the I-94 form?

There is a single word for this suggestion...stupid.




God, Gods and Goddesses
"To those of you who do not believe in God, you can skip this post.

To those of you who believe that the Bible is the Word of God..."

But that is a false premise as not believing in the God of the Bible doesn't mean you don't believe in God (or a number of them). You don't have a monopoly on belief or piety.


Wrong as usual.
Islam IS the problem.

The devout Muslims are the Osamas of the world (just ask the people who protect him), and the apostate Muslims are the peaceniks.

How do I know? Because the Koran teaches explicitly that Muslims are to EMULATE Mohammed.

And what does that imply?

That implies, conquering, violence, slaughter, thievery, sexual slavery, and other less than appetizing sexual proclivities (in addition to the benign practices).

The reason for the development of additional Islamic sacred texts (the Hadith) came about in response to the Koranic command to emulate Mohammed. Without the Hadith, the people were unable to emulate him.

The Bukhari Hadith is considered the most reliable one and it speaks of a man past fifty who enjoyed a vigorous sex life with a nine year old child (Mohammed and his child bride).

Muslims love him for all of this and more.

Ask yourselves why Michael doesn't seem to mind all this.

There has to be something wrong with people who want to make nice with religious people who continue to this day to adore a man who was profoundly evil when he was alive.

There should be a permanent ban on Muslim immigration and no visas offered to the Muslim people.

Forever.