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Tuesday, June 16, 2009
Michael Barone :: Townhall.com Columnist
When Detainees Get Rights They Don't Deserve
by Michael Barone
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It shouldn't come as a complete surprise that, as Stephen Hayes reported in The Weekly Standard, detainees in Afghanistan are now being advised of their Miranda rights by American interrogators -- that they have a right to be silent, a right to a lawyer, a right to have that lawyer paid for, etc. This is, after all, a logical extension of Bush administration critics' insistence that such detainees -- though unlawful combatants under the Geneva Conventions -- must be given every jot and tittle of the rights civilian Americans enjoy on American soil.

*** Special Offer ***

It's nonetheless news, if only because Barack Obama on the campaign trail said that "of course" they would not get Miranda warnings. Now, "of course" seems to have been subordinated to the higher principle of "yes, we can."

This is in line with the Obama administration's "global justice initiative," which elevates the role of the FBI and the Justice Department in global anti-terrorism operations. In its pursuit of the future, the administration is going back to 1990s policies of treating terrorism as a matter of solely criminal law and not seeking to go on the offensive against those who hate our civilization and want to do us great harm.

But this is not just a matter of one administration changing the policies of its predecessor. The extension of Miranda rights is also a symptom of two larger maladies that threaten to harm the body public.

The first of these resides in the culture of military law. Hayes' story is based on the eyewitness testimony of Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Mich., a former FBI agent and a member of the House Intelligence Committee, who actually saw Miranda rights being administered in Afghanistan. But Rogers has said he witnessed this as early as last July, when George W. Bush was still president, though the practice seems far more widespread now. We can't blame it all on Obama.

Some of the blame belongs to our plethora of military lawyers. Jack Goldsmith, in his book "The Terror Presidency," which was marketed as a critique of the Bush administration in which Goldsmith served, also lamented our "over-lawyered war."

"Never in the history of the United States," he wrote, "had lawyers had such extraordinary influence over war policy as they did after 9-11." There are, he pointed out, 10,000 lawyers in the Pentagon. That's probably not something Franklin Roosevelt had in mind when he ordered it built in 1942.

From what I can gather, military lawyers are less inclined to tell our military personnel what they can do than to tell them what they can't. Even routine military initiatives must be approved by lawyers. And they seem inclined, as one can gather from the attitudes of Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., who is a longtime military lawyer reservist, to a maximalist interpretation of detainee rights. This was a problem before Obama's liberals entered the Justice Department, and it will be one after they leave.

The other problem is what I call the sloppy over-generosity of the American people. Except when aroused and alert, we have a tendency to be fat, dumb and happy, and to want to spread that happiness around. So, hey, let's give these detainees more rights than they're entitled to under the Geneva Conventions. It'll make us feel generous, and maybe it will make them like us.

The problem with such an attitude, which is not limited to the left end of the political spectrum, is that the Geneva Conventions are not strengthened but rather are undermined by extending their protections to people who are not entitled to them. Geneva treats unlawful combatants -- those not in uniform or in an organized military force -- worse than it does uniformed soldiers because it seeks to establish a clear dividing line between soldiers and civilians, to give limited rights to the former and to protect the latter. If you shield unlawful combatants from interrogation, you create an incentive for others to fight unlawfully and so are creating greater risks for civilians.

Of course, as Obama said, it is ridiculous to administer Miranda warnings to unlawful combatant detainees in Afghanistan. And it seems obvious that if we revert to treating terrorism as a matter for primarily criminal law, we risk opening ourselves to another Sept. 11-type attack, or worse. But the problem is not just in the Obama administration -- it is in our military establishment and ourselves.

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About The Author
Michael Barone is a Fox News Channel contributor and co-author of The Almanac of American Politics. He is Senior Political Analyst for the Washington Examiner and a Resident Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, a Fox News Channel contributor and co-author of The Almanac of American Politics.
 
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Michael Barone
Time to give this topic a rest.

What we do know.

We do know Obama would rather spend Billions on Closing Gitmo while paying millions to other countries to take them, millions on lawyers defending them in U.S. Courts.

While at the same time only giving loans to U.S. Citizens who want to go to college.

No Constitutional Rights


A foreigner on foreign soil does NOT have nor can he be granted Constitutional rights. The difference between the first WTC attack and those behind the second is that the perpetrators of the 1993 bombing were apprehended on American soil. As far as we know, Osama bin Laden and the majority of AQ & the Taliban have NEVER even stepped foot in the United States.

The sheer madness behind conferring Constitutional rights and the reading of Miranda rights to enemy combatants in Afghanistan grants expands our Constitution beyond anything originally intended by our Founding Fathers.

The next thing that we will hear is that Obama is conferring Constitutional rights on the subjects of and visitors in the UK so that a madman cleric and Michael Savage both can have the right of Freedom of Speech.

Perhaps, the President of the United States should uphold his Oath of Office where he swore to uphold the Constitution, not to abrogate contraccts so as to redistribute wealth or give foreigners in foreign lands rights. It is the citizens of the United States who are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, not some Muhammed in Afghanistan, Pakistan or Iraq.

Idiotic.

Tammy

Maybe, you can ask Obama to put you up in a deluxe resort in Bermuda overlooking the Atlantic Ocean and give you an allowance.

Whose side are you on?
St. Denis In Obama's Red America
Location: LA
Reply # 1
Date: Jun 16, 2009 - 12:54 AM EST Tammy

Maybe, you can ask Obama to put you up in a deluxe resort in Bermuda overlooking the Atlantic Ocean and give you an allowance.


>And exactly whose side are you on ... you would rather send them back to China? Here all this time I figured you for one of those anti-communist supporter of freedom fighters ... who woulda thunk?<

Foreign Office fury over settlement of Guantánamo Uighurs in Bermuda:

The 17 were part of a group of 22 Uighurs allegedly captured by Pakistani bounty hunters in Afghanistan after the US-led invasion in October 2001 and taken to Guantanamo Bay the following year.

US authorities ruled four years ago that they were not involved in extremism and had gone to Afghanistan to escape persecution in China. Five of them were resettled in Albania but attempts to rehouse the others in the United States ran foul of public opinion.

For the past four years, the Uighurs have been held at Camp Iguana, a low-security facility in Guantanamo Bay, with views of the Caribbean and pizza deliveries.


“Growing up under communism, we always dreamed of living in peace and working in free society like this one,” Abdul Nasser, one of the four, said in a statement released through his lawyers. “Today you have let freedom ring."

Flip-Flopping Double-Standards
Now combat troops have a second reason to not take prisoners, the first being the closing of Gitmo only to see terrorists (Man-caused Disaters, er...Causers) released like game fish back into circulation.

The whole idea of capturing a prisoner is to extract information from him, even if all you have available as a guide is the Army Field Manual, so why would any soldier or marine be inclined to do anything other than shoot these people dead on the spot, even if they raise their hands and surrender?

It's obvious to me that the Obama adminstration is just waiting for the opportunity to prosecute some sorry soldier who reaches this same conclusion and shoots a terrorists rather than take him prisoner, then court-martial him in a public trial to appease the Muslims....what a policy!

Reminds me of 'Breaker Morant'.

Anybody know the capture vs. killed rates lately?

This should be really interesting considering that 10,000 US Marines (not lawyers) are about to go on the offensive to burn out the Opium Crop in Helmond Province this week to deny them finances and take out as many Taliban as they can.

I wonder if Katie Couric, Matt Lauer, and Tom Brokaw will be following the grunts around with a TV camera and helpling the Obama adminitration in it's quest?

I guess if any of them actually do get captured and read their Miranda rights and then come to the US for trial, the Holder Justice Department could always just drop the charges on them like they did the Black Panthers in Philadelphia....what a joke.

THE ANTI LIBERAL ZONE
Check out today's issue of the Anti Liberal Zone by clicking on my handle.

First Kill All the Lawyers
Shakespeare had it right. Unfortunately, attorneys have had a grossly disproportionate role in the legislative functioning of America from its conception and inception and as a result it's seeped into every nook and cranny of America. Take a look at Congress today. I'd be willing to bet that the majority trained as attorneys. Attorneys rarely create or contribute productively; most of their energy is devoted to making a buck by extortion. Exhibit 1, Chuck Schumer--a cultural parasite, if there ever was one.

Upside-down world
When we give rights to these sorts it ties the hands of the front-line combat soldiers. With this mentality we would have lost WWII.

re: Clownbama!!!
The biggest joke of the entire Admin. is where in Afgan. the Miranda rights are being read to war combatants and the worst joke of all is that these chinise terrorist are now in the Bahamas and living the good life off the Americans dime!!!! YOU PEOPLE BETTER WAKE UP!!!

Tammy and Jim
Tammy; maybe he will if you liberats do the same! I won't hold my breath though.

Jim in CO; maybe we could send them to live with you? After all, you liberats are so tolerant, compassionate and want to spread the wealth so much, I'm sure that you wouldn't object to paying their freight!

ObamaNation in ACTION!
Don't forget, this guy IS a lawyer AND a politician...oh, and a buffoon! So we should be very comfortable with hypocrisy at the end of his 4 years. Millions of $$ spent protecting people who tried (and will try again) to kill us. Such is the Obama way! http://www.theblacksphere.net is the best place to track these lunatics!

sad
What is missing from this article is any evidence that it is comparing apples and apples.

We are occupying Afghanistan. Not everybody we talk to there is an unlawful enemy combatant. Barone says the bad thing about this policy is that it does not make distinctions between types of prisoners. But the evidence for our not making such distinctions only comes about because Barone, in the column, doesn't make such distinctions.

It's a shame because Barone used to be a conservative who deserved to be taken seriously. But this column certainly doesn't as written.

Isn't it amazing
Bush was only in office a few months when 9/11 hit and the Left pounced on him for having not "connected the dots" to prevent the attack. They spent the 1990s building the wall between law enforcement and intelligence activities and agencies, ignoring the growing terrorism threat despite repeated attacks on US interests. This set us up for what happened.

Then they went apoplectic once Bush and Ashcroft put policies in place to try and capture the early intelligence that would enable us to prevent attacks.

Now, Tammy from IL, another mental midget tells Michael Barone to "give this topic a rest" as she and her fellow Leftists repeat all the insane stupidity of the 1990s again!!

It is said that those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. But who would think this could take place in less than two decades. The Left in this country, with Tammy and her other Illinois degenerates, are definitely mentally disordered.

We can laugh at them when they don't have power, but now that they do we are in unbelievable danger. Once the next attack hits, how long do you think it will take before they are trying to blame Bush and Cheney again?

PV
"she and her fellow Leftists repeat all the insane stupidity of the 1990s again!!

*****
You call me a mental midget while calling the
Clinton years insane stupidity. Wow. The
only insane thing in the 1990's was Ken Starr.

To all the naysayers
Why are you so fearful of the prisoners getting
their rights?

to St. Denis who must still be carrying her
head in her hand.

"Perhaps, the President of the United States should uphold his Oath of Office where he swore to uphold the Constitution, not to abrogate contraccts so as to redistribute wealth or give foreigners in foreign lands rights. It is the citizens of the United States who are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, not some Muhammed in Afghanistan, Pakistan or Iraq.

****
You are reading an awful lot into our
constitution.

But I love particularly this statement :it is
the citizens of the U.S. who are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.

I guess our Creator did not create people from
other lands, only us. How very interesting.
It has sort of been my assumption all of my
life that we treat people as we do because we
are Christians, not because we are Americans.

Could be wrong I guess, as a nation, but not
for myself.


First the Conviction, then the Trial
Conservative commentary on topics like this one always seem to carry the implicit assumption that if a person gets picked up, thrown in a cell, and labeled as an "unlawful combatant" he is in fact guilty of something. Apparently it never occurs to someone like Mr. Barone that at least a few of those people may very well be unjustly accused---perhaps turned over to authorities to get a bounty or settle an old score. But hey, why think about any of that. Let's just throw out all that "innocent until proven guilty" stuff and the other rules worked out over many centuries to assure just prosecution. If it's a swarthy, mean-looking Muslim, and he ended up in jail, that's all that should matter. Right?

Johninoregon
"Conservative commentary on topics like this one always seem to carry the implicit assumption that if a person gets picked up, thrown in a cell, and labeled as an "unlawful combatant" he is in fact guilty of something. "

Nice try. All of the detainees were either captured in the act, have a long documented history of terrorism, or were captured on the battlefield. None of them represented a nation, wore uniforms, or followed any rules. Just last Sunday, Yemeni police found the bodies of 7 dead German hospital workers including thier children. They were kidnapped, tortured and mutlilated. Yemeni police said it was the work of Al Qaida. The Al Qaida chief is a former Gtimo detainee who was released. The DOD was under pressure from the ACLU. DOD handed the man over to Saudi. Within a week he disappeared.

Yes, let's all go back to the Clinton-Gorelick days. That worked out so well.

rights that humans don't deserve?
hmm, who knew that god was posting at TH under various nicknames.

Good points
If we're in a foreign nation, what are we doing "prosecuting" people at all? What need do we have for Miranda rights?

If libs are suggesting we just take over these nations and then extend civil rights to those we now rule, that's one thing, but a war in progress is not the place for a courtroom.

I'll put the same question to the Obama administration that has been put to the previous administration -- what does victory look like? Why won't you let us win?

If we aren't allowed to win, when are we coming home?

johninoregon
"Conservative commentary on topics like this one always seem to carry the implicit assumption that if a person gets picked up, thrown in a cell, and labeled as an "unlawful combatant" he is in fact guilty of something. "

He is in fact guilty of something - he's an unlawful combatant. If he is shooting at you and isn't in a uniform that automatically makes him an unlawful combatant. It doesn't matter if there is a trial for it or not. The Geneva Convention does NOT require a court to prove the person is what he is - he's already proved it himself. The ones we have/had in Gitmo were certainly that type. While someone may turn in a person he doesn't like, we don't get those - Iraq does.

But this is too logical an argument for liberals, isn't it? It is like saying the sun can be hot in the summer. If liberals don't believe that, then no matter what evidence you provide they won't be convinced of it ... at least until they feel the heat themselves. But that also means they must get out of their tiny little world and enter the real one.

Johninoregan
Whereas liberal articles tend to assume the exact opposite -- that anyone the government picks up anywhere is likely innocent.

Tell me, exactly what rules of warfare have been violated? This is the same situation where people are shot with the full intention of killing them dead by simple soldiers with only the barest legal training so as to stay in the bounds of international expectations. It would be perfectly legal to just shoot them, but when they surrender or are handed over to us we need to read them their rights?

They don't recognize our government as having authority there. They could care less what rights we say they, or anyone else, should have.

In what conceivable reality is this supposed to be in any way unclear?

Get rid of the Usurper!
I will remember all he's done to this country come Nov 2010 and 2012!

Will Iran Get US Tax Dollars?
On Friday, the Senate passed a $108 billion blank check for IMF expansion, as part of the military supplemental, in response to a request from the administration in fulfillment of the U.S. commitment to global stimulus pledged at the G-20 meeting in April. Since this appropriation was not included in the House version of the bill, it is possible that the funding might be stripped, as Rep. Obey has stated is his preference, and Republicans have threatened to do. More likely, it provides an opportunity to include various key reforms, without which the funding will likely not achieve its intended impact of global stimulus and may actually do more harm than good.

http://blog.thehill.com/2009/05/26/new-funds-approved-for-i mf-would-worsen-global-economic-downturn/

There is an ongoing move by Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats to prevent Iran from receiving any money from the IMF, if such come from the US bailout.

Lilliputian
"to St. Denis who must still be carrying her
head in her hand."

Better than being a broken down, fat slob.

"Perhaps, the President of the United States should uphold his Oath of Office where he swore to uphold the Constitution, not to abrogate contraccts so as to redistribute wealth or give foreigners in foreign lands rights. It is the citizens of the United States who are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, not some Muhammed in Afghanistan, Pakistan or Iraq.

****
"You are reading an awful lot into our
constitution."

Really? Where did you go to Law School, genius?

"But I love particularly this statement :it is
the citizens of the U.S. who are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights."

CITIZENS of the US have unalienable rights, NOT enemy combatants captured on foreign lands.

"I guess our Creator did not create people from
other lands, only us."

The Constitution ONLY applies to US citizens OR foreigners apprehended on American soil.

"It has sort of been my assumption all of my
life that we treat people as we do because we
are Christians, not because we are Americans."

What does being a Christian have to do with the Constitution? Are only Christians protected by the US Constitution?

"Could be wrong I guess, as a nation, but not
for myself."

Yes, you are wrong when it comes to Constitutional protections for non-citizens.

Good grief! Does the Italian judicial system have to use US law when trying Amanda Knox for murder?

The Idiocy of HOPE, or, 1st, kill all
the Lawyers!! These Afgani TRIBESMEN are some of the most backward "people" on the Planet. Who the hell says you have to give Civil Rights, to a people who use their right hands for Toilet Tissue, to cleanse the shi-ite fron their behinds?? ONLY a group of IDIOT Lawyers would entertain such a concept! Oh, I forgot, the POTUS is a G.D. Liberal Freakin Lawyer "Who will Stand with his MOSLEM Brothers", in any courtroom full of Christian/Jewish "Infidels", wichever way the wind "BLOWS". Yeah, something "Blows" about this!! The Lawsuits generated by the Commie ACLU, on these "Wogs" [Brit. slang for Sand Monkeys] behalf alone, will Complete the Bankrupting of this Nation. Who sez the Prez don't have a Plan??? We'll All be Bowing to Mecca, by the time he's gone.

Hey, Roy

Please do not kill me. Even though I am a lawyer, I detest most others.

Gitmo Detainees
Wouldn't it be absolutely wonderful for them to be housed at 1601 Pennsylvania Ave, Washington, DC??

Pray for it. He deserves it.... Happy Day !!

False Premise
This whole column is based upon rumor & exagerration. In 2008, while Bush was stil Pres, the FBI began reading certain detainees rights similar to Miranda warnings to help build cases against them that would stand up in court.

Also, why is anyone less deserving of rights? A few years ago in Washington State, a man invaded a home, murdered the parents and the teenagers, kidnapped two children under 10 years old, raped both of them and murdered the boy before being arrested with the little girl.

He was sentenced to the death penalty, but only after a constitutional trial with all the constitutuional protections. What makes this guy more deserving of ANYTHING than someone from Afganistan arrested because he kinda-sorta looks like a terrorist????

The Enemy Combatant
Your president does not want to unjustly treat his comrades from the Kenyan countryside and any from the Middle East. Remember, he and they want us down and out so that they can control us in the Islamic fashion or cut our heads off. The fool from Kenya will try to distroy My America and Yours and has done a pretty good job of it so far, but I do not think the Fat Lady has sung yet>>>>

Dan
"Also, why is anyone less deserving of rights? A few years ago in Washington State, a man invaded a home, murdered the parents and the teenagers, kidnapped two children under 10 years old, raped both of them and murdered the boy before being arrested with the little girl.

He was sentenced to the death penalty, but only after a constitutional trial with all the constitutuional protections. What makes this guy more deserving of ANYTHING than someone from Afganistan arrested because he kinda-sorta looks like a terrorist????"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Constitutional protections only extend to US citizens and non-citizens apprehended on American soil. If you recall, the 1993 WTC terrorists were tried in Federal court, but only because they were caught here.

miranda rights
OK ... give them their miranda rights and then

MAKE THEM SILENT ... THIS IS A WAR NOT A GAME !

They want to die a martyr and get their 72 virgins in the land of their PAGAN god ALLAH ?

Be a good CITIZEN OF THE WORLD and accommodate them. That is the least you can do !

By the way, those four terrorists that are vacationing in Paradise on our dollar, sure don't look chineese to me. They look ARABIC !

Deserving??? Dan??
GO to Afganistan, and LIVE with those Wonderful Simple Tribesmen, and if you Survive, you'll know the Answer to your Questions!! Oh, btw, I was a Corrections Officer,16+yrs.--We Don't NEED any more MOSLEMS preachin' "Kill the White[Devil Slavemaster] Boys", in our Prison System. And we certainly don't need to Import 'em!!!!

Obama the Grape
Thin skinned and bizarre, our President has terror trained laughing cows swimming off the coast of Bermuda while protesting Iranians are getting their rear ends kicked and killed. Where is David Letterman and his jokes when you need them?

This makes it
even more important that his eligibility be
established.. if he is as most of us believe, illegally and unconstitutionally installed in the presidency because he is not a Natural Born Citizen as the Constitution demands then these orders are illegal. And not only that, he's putting more of our military in harms way because they will hesitate out of fear they will be court martialed if they make the wrong split second decision. You know that somewhere
one of ours will shoot and kill an enemy and
one of his fellow thugs will yell that it was murder.

Whoops
wasn't too clear on who the thugs are ..I meant one of the surviving enemy will use this miranda garbage as an excuse to get even with our military.

Who's going to pay??
Ok so the detainees have the right to remain silent, etc....who is going to defend them. I am sure there are hotshot lawyers ready to defend but who is ultimately going to pay for defense..trial, etc. And then there are the public defenders...who pays them....just a thought

Denise...Joel..rights?
Denise- What Miranda rights do dead terrorists
have? Smile. I betcha there is going to be a lot less capturing of terrorists!
We will talk Palin another time and place.
MOVIN' ON.

Joel- go back to yesterdays Parker article: my
response to your response! Have a good evening
BROTHER. Smile.
Elvis

a maximalist interpretation
"...a maximalist interpretation of detainee rights."

The problem with this is that the more America does, the WORSE, not better, America appears.

funny
Ughigers wobble but they dont fall down. Those dudes are the fattest oppressed prisoners I have ever seen. They must of had lots Church's fried chicken at Gitmo. Dang, a few sit ups might have been in order in between episodes of One Life to Live. Now, it's gonna be heck for them to get back into killing shape.
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