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Friday, May 15, 2009
Ken Blackwell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Obama and Crimes Against Humanity
by Ken Blackwell
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Editor’s Note: Mr. Blackwell served as the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Human Rights Commission from 1991 - 1993.

This is a tale of two worldviews. It begins not unlike the opening paragraph of Dickens’ immortal work, A Tale of Two Cities. Schoolchildren once memorized these famous opening lines, back when schoolchildren memorized anything.

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair…

President Obama at his Hundred Day White House séance proclaimed waterboarding to be torture. His was a clear, unambiguous, declarative statement. In making that statement, he opened up former President Bush and former Vice President Cheney to criminal prosecutions, here and before an international criminal court. And not just these men, but possibly hundreds of others, including members of Congress from his own party.

Cliff May, of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, takes a different approach to the question of whether waterboarding is torture or not. May was badgered by The Daily Show’s Jon Stewart. May’s answer is not as yes/no, as on/off as President Obama’s. May said it depends. May’s answer was more nuanced. Liberals used to like nuance, but that was when John Kerry was nuancing. Here’s how it went:

Jon Stewart: But answer my question: Is waterboarding torture? Yes or no?

Cliff May: Defining torture is not easy. A simple legal definition is that it “shocks the conscience.” Cutting off Daniel Pearl’s head on videotape — that shocks my conscience. Sending a child out as a suicide bomber — that shocks my conscience. People jumping off the World Trade Towers because they’d rather die that way than by burning — that shocks my conscience. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, mastermind of the 9/11 atrocities, gagging for a few minutes and, as a result, providing information that saves lives, then going back to his cell for dinner and a movie — no, my conscience is not shocked by that.

Are our consciences shocked by subjecting KSM to waterboarding? Apparently, this enhanced interrogation technique didn’t shock the consciences of members of Congress who were briefed on its planned use. Some of us need to re-play those tapes of cell phone calls by people trapped in the World Trade Towers.

The question keeps coming back to whether we extend all the rights of American citizens to captured terrorists. And the question also comes back to whether the terrorists are to be accorded all the protections of the Geneva Conventions.

Increasingly, our courts are saying terrorists are to be given constitutional protections, here, in Afghanistan, and at Gitmo. Geneva is another matter. This treaty binds nations to humane treatment of prisoners of war. In order to be counted as a prisoner of war, you must be in uniform (John McCain was, Nathan Hale was not), you must be subject to military discipline, and you must be taking part in a war conducted by competent authority.

The Geneva Convention also governs respect for medical treatment of prisoners and wounded soldiers. Take Al Qaeda in Iraq, for example. When one of their IEDs went off in 2003 near Baghdad and killed and wounded a number of American soldiers, a U.S. Army medical HUMVEE raced to the scene. Waiting for the medics to arrive, the terrorists set off a second IED. It had been planted there specifically to target the medical help. Inside the HUMVEE, an American female nurse was burned beyond recognition.

The purpose of the Geneva Convention was to give warring nations a strong, positive incentive to behave according to international norms and not to engage in conduct that “shocks the conscience.” When we give Al Qaeda or Taliban terrorists prisoner of war status and Geneva Convention coverage—without demanding anything of them in return—we abandon one of the great achievements of the Geneva Convention.

Of course, some humans are not accorded human rights. Our courts have seen to that. President Obama named Justice Stephen Breyer as his ideal jurist. In 2000, Justice Breyer wrote the majority opinion in Carhart v. Stenberg. That was the case in which the U.S. Supreme Court struck down as unconstitutional Nebraska’s law against partial-birth abortion. Justice Breyer’s opinion is worth quoting at length. He described various techniques of late-term abortion that do not shock his conscience. Nor do these techniques--unlike waterboarding, unlike slapping, unlike sleep deprivation--shock President Obama’s conscience, or the consciences of our liberal rulers.

During a pregnancy’s second trimester (12 to 24 weeks), the most common abortion procedure is “dilation and evacuation” (D&E), which involves dilation of the cervix, removal of at least some fetal tissue using nonvacuum surgical instruments, and (after the 15th week) the potential need for instrumental dismemberment of the fetus or the collapse of fetal parts to facilitate evacuation from the uterus. When such dismemberment is necessary, it typically occurs as the doctor pulls a portion of the fetus through the cervix into the birth canal. The risks of mortality and complication that accompany D&E are significantly lower than those accompanying induced labor procedures (the next safest mid-second-trimester procedures). A variation of D&E, known as “intact D&E,” is used after 16 weeks. It involves removing the fetus from the uterus through the cervix “intact,” i.e., in one pass rather than several passes. The intact D&E proceeds in one of two ways, depending on whether the fetus presents head first or feet first. The feet-first method is known as “dilation and extraction” (D&X). D&X is ordinarily associated with the term “partial birth abortion.”

A little translation may be required: “at least some fetal tissue” translates to the unborn child’s arm, a leg, or maybe her head. “Dismemberment of the fetus with nonvaccuum surgical instruments” means cutting off her arms or legs with razor-sharp implements while the child, still alive, is capable of feeling excruciating pain.

Rest assured, this is not torture. It doesn’t meet the legal definition of torture because under the rule of Roe v. Wade, the unborn child does not meet the legal definition of a person.

Terrorists were once defined—like pirates and slave traders—as hostis humani generis, enemies of all mankind. As such, they received no due process rights. They had no right to counsel. They received no protections under international agreements. When seized on the high seas by the Royal Navy, they could be promptly hanged upon determination that they were engaged in the proscribed activities.

It would have shocked the consciences of our ancestors, however, to dismember even such low characters as pirates, to cut off their arms and legs, and to let them bleed profusely to death. The most inhuman of humans in the nineteenth century could not have been treated as the least of humans are treated in our enlightened United States, by order of the U.S. Supreme Court.

Our new president abhors torture, unless it is the torture of the unborn. In that case, it is not torture at all, but simply inducing fetal demise. This great international uproar over what is and is not torture has been generated because of the treatment of three known mass murderers. The slaughter of innocents in their thousands elicits no international outrage. This is part of what Justice Breyer sees as evolving international standards of decency.

In my opinion, the Obama Administration’s abortion agenda is indeed a crime against humanity. 

This weekend, President Obama will receive an honorary Doctor of Laws from the University of Notre Dame. There, he will be honored, among other things, for his brave stand against torture. He has appointed Kathleen Sebelius to head our nation’s health system. She is a disciple of the most notorious late-term abortionist in the county, a dismemberer, by his own count, of 60,000 fetuses. The President and Secretary Sebelius want to force us all to pay for abortion-on-demand. They want to force doctors and nurses to take part in killing unborn children. They will doubtless tell us our consciences should not be shocked. They’re only inducing fetal demise. Heaven help us all. And Heaven help Notre Dame.

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About The Author
Mr. Blackwell, a contributing editor at Townhall.com, is a senior fellow at the Family Research Council and American Civil Rights Union.
 
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How about Tony Blair
Will Congress ask to have Tony Blair brought up on charges or any other state leaders who supported the U.S. in Iraq?

Can't have it both ways
Proponents of abortion argue the embryo is not life or significant ,but when it comes to stem cell research they argue the embryo is significant because it is life. Also, everyone cheered when Pres. Obama ordered the killing of young pirates to save the life of one american but Pres. Bush is lambasted when he uses a technique that isn't life threatening to save thousands or more americans. This controversy over 'torture' is simply stupid! I haven't heard ONE argument that makes ANY common sense.

Ralph
You were born. Isn't that a huge crime against humanity.

Iraq War not illegal
The fact that no one is pursuing a case about it speaks for itself. The reason is that saddam violated on a continual basis for a dozen years the terms of the armistice from the 1991 Gulf War which had full UN authorization. For the same reason that clinton needed no authorization for his bombing campaign in 1998, which would otherwise have also been an act of aggression and war crime, yet none on the left would ever say so because it's all politics.

Besides, to complain about it reveals a preference for the fascistic baathists and the genocidal hussein dynasty to have continued their horrific grip on the Iraqi people. Moreover, the price of our own freedoms has been higher still. The world became more free with the defeat of the taliban and saddam.

To Ralph in FL
You said:
"Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died in an illegal war initiated by George Bush and the neocons"

Absolutely right. Section 8 of our Constituion grants Congress exclusive authority to declare war or its likeness and the 1974 War Powers Act specifically reaffirms that right and power of Congress alone: From Sections 8 of our Constitution:
"To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever...etc. "


The Iraq war was and is an illegal imperial exercise of military adventurism and has done nothing except jeopordize America's security, embarrass our nation, strengthen Al Quada, ransack the public treasury, and squander our military while allowing the Taliban to slip away and OBL to escape.

Ralph
I'm hoping that you are being sarcastic, if not, you would make the perfect poster boy for abortion.

Talking to people like Ralph
is a total waste of time. He has convicted America as being no better than the Taliban in his mind. It is unfortunate that people like Ralph are living in this country and enjoying the rights that better Americans died to secure for him.

People of his ilk will increase in numbers as long as the radical left is allowed to control America's educational systems. Please note that this control has remained intact regardless of which political Party has been in power.

Waterboarding...
...is just the beginning!

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/02/09/mohamed-torture-uk-us/

Don't let the mainstream media trap you into a tiny box, thinking waterboarding is the only form of torture carried out in our name.

It is not. We, the American people, are responsible for some great atrocities committed by the alphabet agencies in our name.

Time to clean up the act.

First:
Gee, you lefties love to dust off your constitution and trot it out when it suits you! Congress DID authorize the Iraq war and later claimed "WE WERE DECEIVED!" (liars!!!) As far as international law, we were enforcing the provisions from Gulf War 1, which Iraq repeatedly violated. Bush simply executed the policy of regime change formulated under President Clinton. Speaking of, where were you when Clinton sent our troops over to the Balkans to engage in a war that had even less to do with our national interests? And please, learn the definition of "imperialism" before you go mouthing off. You know and I know we haven't and never will add Iraq to our "empire". Nor will we ever see a drop of Iraqi oil without having to pay for it.

Oh, Red White and Blue....
...how naive and old-fashioned you are!

You wrote "You know and I know we haven't and never will add Iraq to our "empire". Nor will we ever see a drop of Iraqi oil without having to pay for it. "

But you don't understand how the era of multi-national corporations works, do you?

The US doesn't own Iraq or it's oil... but Halliburton does!

We lowly citizens will never profit from the war, but the contractors already have.

Anyway, what a red herring.

The real issue is that we, the USA, made a promise to the world not to torture and yet we do it with aplomb.

Did you read about the fella who had his genitals cut? Currently a resident of Guantanamo.

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/02/09/mohamed-torture-uk-us/

That's a real problem and it will have real ramifications. It's like that Edgar Allan Poe story of the tell-tale heart. We're going to drive ourselves mad if we continue with this immoral behavior.

I'm so sick of the left
whining about "torture". Aren't they the same people that support killing/dismembering innocent children? Their phony "concern" about human rights is sickening. In fact, I seem to remember several leftys showing up in Nam to pose for Commie holy pictures, thus supporting a regime that did much worse to our soldiers. Isn't that right Jane "I'll sit on this AA gun & pretend shooting down our pilots" Fonda"?

Flagging
I used only to flag posts which contained personal abuse for other posters. Given the outrageous, lying posts in this thread, I will now flag every post I see that has flagrant lies and misrepresentations in it.

I'm simply sick of the lying and I'm not going to take it anymore.

This is dumb
Torture is bad. There is laws against it. Why has it become a defining conservative principle?


This is a no-brainer, folks
Obama's actions are not surprising at all when you realize one thing --
We've got a fox in the hen house.

paranoid:
Your name says it all. I'm not naive but I'm also not idiotic enough to believe that the Democrats, the libs in the news media and the intelligence community, not to mention other "evil' corporations who are also competitive, and the allies who supported us would have allowed us to invade Iraq just to enrich the coffers of Haliburton. This goes back to the first Gulf War, remember? I guess Haliburton caused Sadam Hussein to invade Kuwait too! And it was Bill Clinton who first created the US policy of regime change. What did he have to do with Haliburton? These same omnipotent corporations are now lying at the feet of Obama, giving into virtually everything he demands. What power they wield! Moron!

Tyler, Thy Name Is Dumb

There is no law against waterboarding.

The Demolibs had a chance to include torture in 2006, but passed.

Queen Pelosi lied and the CIA has the documents to prove it.

The Geneva Commission does not apply to those without a country, flag, and uniform.

The Human Rights Commission does not cover homosexuals, women, religion (except for Islam), etc.

When it comes to dumb, you take the cake.

Tyler:
It's simple. Some conservatives have surrendered the ability to think rationally on some subjects. Because intellectual defeat stalks them on their most precious issues, they clutch at straws on any foolish issue that puts them at odds with the opposition. Their intention is to bury liberals under ever deeper piles of the evacuation product of bovine males.

Abortions
Late term abortions and partial birth abortions- murder. Anyone who participates in these horrific procedures is inhuman. Trying to force medical practionists to perform these awful procedures is a violation of their rights to live with their beliefs. I am sickened by the descriptions of these procedures.

No Insight

You and Tyler are partners in a dumb marriage.

Insighting Truth @ 7:45

". . . evacuation product . . . ."

WONDERFUL!!! I must remember that one!

Truth, you corrupt the word
Cons. and Reps. stand for personal responsibility, fiscal conservatism, free trade, strong foreign policy, and Const. law.

Those are the same ideals enshrined in the Const. and Bill of Rights and have made the US the country that people all over the world would rather be in.

Anyone who thinks that the last election ended those tenets can't think.

62,000,000 did not vote for Obama.

20 states did not vote for O.

85% of all counties did not vote for O--but he had ACORN and the cities.

The worm always turns.

St. Denis:
I was just answering Tyler's question. We have no partnership.

Gretchen:
Thanks.

Waterboarding as Torture? NO!
It is incomprhensible to me, in light of 911, which seems to be all but forgotten by the left, and the war that we are still engaged in with Islamic terrorists, that the Obama admisnistration would engage in this vitriolic campaign.

Condemning our troops and the CIA for "torture" as they are dealing with those caught in jihadist training camps, or on the battle field, intent on our destruction, is insane, suicidal and it is all for political expediency and hatred of the Bush administration.

This nation is in trouble when politics trumps our national safety. Not only does it send a message to our enemies that we are weak, it also informs them that if captured, they will be treated with kid gloves and all the amenities of a summer camp.

These terrorists routinely torture, main, suicide bomb and behead innocent people whom they even suspect of collaborating with the enemy. They behead, torture and desecrate the bodies of our troops, dragging them through the streets as trophies. Do they follow the Geneva Convention? Or even basic rules of human decency? NO!

If we are to win this war...and we are at war with a formidable and vicious enemy, we must have the option to use enhanced interrogation techniques. We don't, kill or main, or chop off limbs. And if our own Special Forces troops can go through waterboarding as part of their training....It ain't torture.


OBAMA IS OUT OF CONTROL
AND IT'S TIME WE LET HIM KNOW IT IN A WAY HE CAN'T IGNORE.

SINCE WHEN does the president of the United States, or ANYONE in his administration have the Constitutional Authority to tell private sector owned businesses
WHO their Corporate officers will be?

WHO they will and won't employ?

WHO they have to merge with to stay in business?

HOW MANY of their divisions and sales outlets(Dealerships) can remain in business?

HOW MUCH they can pay their employees?

HOW MUCH they can spend for advertising?

OBAMA IS DOING ALL OF THESE THINGS THROUGH HIS "AUTOMOBILE TASK FORCE."

HE TOLD THEM TO TELL THE AUTO COMPANIES THAT THEY MUST CLOSE DOWN DEALERSHIPS THAT SELL A LOT OF THE VEHICLS THAT HE(OBAMA) DOESN'T WANT US TO OWN.

HE DOES NOT HAVE THE CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY TO DO ANY OF THIS!

STAND UP AMERICA, THIS MAN IS MAKING HIMSELF A DICTATOR.
IT'S TIME TO STORM THE WHITE HOUSE AND REMOVE HIM.

renny:
Please point to any untruth I have ever uttered.

I doubt very much that you support The Constitution as it is written. I, on the other hand, always defend the ideals upon which this country was founded. By and large self-described conservatives do not.

If you support The U.S. Constitution you must oppose California's Prop 8. Do you?

If you support The ideals laid out in the D of I then you know government does not have the authority to impose restrictions on the actions of individuals unless those actions deprive themselves or another individual of an inalienable right. Do you understand that precept?

The truth is that nobody voted for Obama; they voted for electors, who voted for Obama. And we are not a democracy, so it does not matter a whit what the majority votes for, if the result is the violation of an inalienable right.

TORTURE & THE HIGHER LAW OF PATRIOTISM
Dr. Krauthammer's article in today's TH "The Torture Debate, Continued" is a praisworthy excerise in situtation ethics where moral principles against torture, which he and most every American share, are cast aside in a national emergency; when love of country requires us to become Jack Bauers doing unsavory things like torturing human beings for the greater good of national security and saving American lives. Patriotism (love of country) is the ultimate national law overruling what is written; the "Higher Law" of Martin Luther King who broke the written Jim Crow Laws to end racial discrimination and advance national morality and American ideals of justice and equal rights. If Bush and Cheney broke the law with the application of waterboarding to al-Qaida terrorists-whether or not it saved lives-then it puts them in league with men like Martin Luther King and like him deserve the highest praise for their actions.

Sometimes I can't wait
until the muslims take out the liberals. The beauty of it is that after the liberals are hiding back in the holes they should never have slithered out of, we will be left with a strong nation that will then stand up to the muslims.

Liberals - remember not to torture the muslim children that come down your hole wearing bombs on their vest. Just be quiet & explode with dignity. Perhaps while shouting "America sucks" at the top of your lungs.

Too bad we can't have a film reel of bloopers showing you screwing it up. How many of you will only get to say "Oh crap!" & never get the "America sucks" part out in time.

Joel:
You are correct. Like you, I argue against abortion. I also argue against torture. I also argue against the death penalty.

Unlike you, I am consistent. I argue against any violation of the U.S. Constitution.

The problem with your position on abortion is your failure to respect the limitations that The Constitution puts on the government's use of force. You as an individual cannot initiate force to prevent someone from obtaining an abortion. It follows therefore that you cannot empower an agent(government) to initiate force on your behalf. It is a simple concept. Think about it a little.

Speaking of crimes against humanity
I'd like to see a little more coverage of BO's decision to dismantle recovery plans for a biological attack on America. Why is he even interesed in this?

Education is Needed!
Thank you, Mr. Blackwell. I think if all Americans knew the definition of partial-birth abortion and were aware of the various techniques used in abortions, they would be horrified and their conscience would be shocked.

Insighting Falsehoods
Prop eight was not unconstitutional. Marriage falls under the perview of the 10th ammendment. The state has full authority over marriage.

And we conservatives are agaisnt torture also. That is why no one was tortured.

"The problem with your position on abortion is your failure to respect the limitations that The Constitution puts on the government's use of force. You as an individual cannot initiate force to prevent someone from obtaining an abortion. It follows therefore that you cannot empower an agent(government) to initiate force on your behalf. It is a simple concept. Think about it a little."

Really? No one can use force to prevent a murder? Looks like alot of police officers are going to prison. It is a simple concept, think about it a little.

Mr or Ms Insighting ....
I'll take your challenge. Let’s see…
1. “If you support the Constitution, you must oppose California’s Prop 8.” Perhaps under your paradigm of defining federalism based upon your particular view of shared “ideals”, there arises a relationship between the Constitution and Prop 8. Otherwise, I fail to see one. The Constitutional approach is: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” So, it’s not a federal issue; it’s a state issue. Hence, if you live in California, you can argue all you want about “ideals” and whether Prop. 8 is in accord with them. Hold forth, my friend! But, what does that have to do with the rest of us?
2. “If you support The ideals laid out in the D of I then you know government does not have the authority to impose restrictions on the actions of individuals unless those actions deprive themselves or another individual of an inalienable right. Do you understand that precept? Yeah… I think I’ve got a pretty comfortable “grasp” of it (after teaching it for many years). How about you? You might want to look more closely at the “D of I” to which you refer. I share your fondness for it; but, it’s not law, nor was it intended as such.
3. The truth is that nobody voted for Obama; they voted for electors, who voted for Obama. And we are not a democracy, so it does not matter a whit what the majority votes for, if the result is the violation of an inalienable right. Hey! We agree on something! Tally Ho, and all that rot…But, help me with where you were going with this “inalienable rights” thingy. To what rights do you refer?

Mr. Blackwell...
you have written a masterpiece. I will take parts of this writing and post it in my homeschool classroom for my children to read.

It is powerful and poignant and absolutely accurate. Thanks you.

And God help us all, indeed.

Sincerely,
loquacious?
Vicksburg, Ms

Marines Dad
You are right! It is time to storm the White House. When will we do that? We must before it is too late! That is why they put the military on the "watch Out for them" list. We must must must hurry before he gets his "Security Forces" (July 2nd, 02) stronger than our military! Who is going to get us stormin' the place. It is imperative. Time is of the essence!

EXCELLENT ARTICLE!
Ken, you did an outstanding job on this... you got right to the core "reality" of Obama and crew's mindless "fairy-tale world" or rather "nightmarish world" that they live in.

It's amazing how they think- to dismember a fetus (a living baby- not some inhuman piece of flesh like that discarded by a snake, but a living human baby with arms, legs and a heart) is NOT considered gruesome, morbid or illegal, YET slapping around terrorists that refuse to live by the standards set by decent humans, and who instead kill others by intentionally breaking these civil rules, do deserve our respect and full legal rights???? Insane!

Cliff May's response to airhead Jon Stewart is also classic...May summed it up!

Again, great article!

tA tour de force
Mr. Blackwell may be joining atop the Thomas Sowell pedestal for brilliant and insightful commentators who are right and incisive just about 100% of the time.

Crimes against Humanity

Water boarding is not a crime against Humanity.

Witholding heathcare from a new born bady is.

Liberals support Obama's decision to withold healthcare from new born babies.

Baradiel:
Of course we can use can use force to prevent murder. What we cannot use force to accomplish is the sacrifice of one person for the sake of another.

We can, if we freely chose to do so, sacrifice all or part of our own life for the sake of another. But, we cannot order someone else to sacrifice their life, or part of it, for the sake of a third party. Think about is a little.

InsightingTruth
"Of course we can use can use force to prevent murder. What we cannot use force to accomplish is the sacrifice of one person for the sake of another.

We can, if we freely chose to do so, sacrifice all or part of our own life for the sake of another. But, we cannot order someone else to sacrifice their life, or part of it, for the sake of a third party. Think about is a little."

If you are referring to abortion in the case of rpeventing imidiate harm to the mother, then you would know that most conservatives aren't opposed to it. It is akin to deciding which conjoined twin is saved and which one dies. I personally would hope that a mother would sacrifice her own life for that of her child.

You do understand that most abortions are cases of conveniance for the mother, not to save her life, right? That is nothing more than murder int he first degree. Think about it a little.

oneyedman:
I'm glad we agree on something. I bet we agree on a great deal more than you think.

Prop 8 violates the equal protection clause of the U.S. Constitution, and I believe the of the California Constitution as well. States do have powers, more than they generally exercise, but they do not possess the authority to violate the rights of their citizens.

I know that the D of I is not law, and I am glad that you recognize that as well. That alone puts you beyond the intellectual reach of most of those that post here.

The D of I set out a formula for a just government. The U.S. Constitution attempts to codify the ideals expressed in the D of I. It does so imperfectly. It contains compromises that were necessary to obtain ratification. Some of those have been worked out of it, some have not. Whenever possible I argue for the ideal. It may be that attainment of the ideal will remain forever beyond our reach, Americans should never stop trying to reach the promise of the framers vision.

Obama Is Succeeding
at dividing this nation...father against son, brother against brother. Sound familiar??? Ever wonder about Obamas obsession with our Civil War President, Abraham Lincoln?

I HAVE THE ANSWER
Since Obama and his bleeding heart lefties have opened up for the whole world to see, our means of torturing (Waterboarding! Oh horrors of all horrors!) known terrorists intent on killing Americans, and since our enemies now know we can't use these so called methods of torture and they have nothing to fear from us (I can hear them laughing now), we need to come up with some kind of alternative to protect ourselves.

On the outside chance that, during this administration, we will ever again even try to "extract" information from a known terrorist in order to save innocent American lives, we are faced with a dilemma. These individuals now know they have nothing to fear from being tortured.

Hmm! What to do? Oh, I know! Let's just soothe their fears and tell them we're not going to treat them like prisoners, guilty of who knows what. We're going to treat them like true innocents, as pure and innocent as...as, oh, you know, an innocent little baby not even yet born into this world. Then we show them videos of what we do to these innocent babies and how we "extract" them. Tell them not to worry, because these methods are perfectly approved of by Obama and the liberals, so it can't hurt them. They won't even feel it!

Morality
Most of you posters confuse morality with politics.

Abortion is a moral decision made by the mother. Obama's stance on abortion is to placate his supporters on the left (that's political). If Obama's leftists stood firmly on the side of "pro-life", then Obama, too, would stand there.

Any questions?

New Gallup Poll!
Shows that 51 percent of American's are pro life, while 42 are pro abortion.

You're losing lefties. Obama and company will only hurt your cause even more.

Conservative and Proud of it
Don't worry, our Military won't bother to take anyone alive anymore.

Baradiel:
Most mothers are willing to sacrifice for their unborn babies. Some do in fact sacrifice their lives. But they cannot be forced to do so.

When "conservatives" argue for legal proscriptions they are arguing for the application of force against another human being; that's what enforcement is. If your daughter was determined to get an abortion for her "convenience", what level of force would you apply to prevent her from doing so?

InsightingTruth
"Of course we can use can use force to prevent murder. What we cannot use force to accomplish is the sacrifice of one person for the sake of another."
You wrote:
We can, if we freely chose to do so, sacrifice all or part of our own life for the sake of another. But, we cannot order someone else to sacrifice their life, or part of it, for the sake of a third party. Think about is a little.

What is there to think about. You are talking about killing and this issue is about torture.

Big difference between the two. No you can't kill someone to elicit information. But you sure as heck can kill someone who breaks into your home or car

Which leaves us with torture to get info. Nothing the US did ended in death, not even water boarding. So what the heck are you talking about?

You write as if you've taken lessons from Obamass.

How does this sound lefties?
If we refered to inhanced interogation as "very late term abortion" would that work for you?

TERRRISTS
Aterrerist is a non-human that will cut off your head, dismember you and drag you thru the streets, all to the joy of the muslims.

A terrerist will strap explosive to themselves, woman and children, all to kill you for the muslim faith.

A terrerist (several of them) killed approximently 3000 Americans at the twin towers.

Do you honestly think they should be treated as human beings?

Oboma, you are one sick person who thinks that muslims are good people. Although you seem to be one of them by your actions and you do have a following of idiots like pelosie the liar,barny the dumbo,your very poor chice for VP and many others of the Chicago gang, you will be caught up with by The Supreme Being.

May God help us all

Insighting "truth"
"Most mothers are willing to sacrifice for their unborn babies. Some do in fact sacrifice their lives. But they cannot be forced to do so."

Again, see my statement. I am against elective abortion. I never said an innocent person should be forced to die. I said quite the opposite.

"When "conservatives" argue for legal proscriptions they are arguing for the application of force against another human being; that's what enforcement is."

Abortion is murder. Plain and simple. There is nothing unconservative about using the force of government to stop that.

"If your daughter was determined to get an abortion for her "convenience", what level of force would you apply to prevent her from doing so?"

I would do everything I could to convince her what she is doing is wrong in everyway. I would raise her to respect innocent life. However, if she actually did it, I would disown her for murdering my grandchild. Using "force" against her would be pointless, as she can legally murder her child. But she would not be welcome in my home, any more than she would be had she given birth to the child, then drowned him/her.


Oops
"If we refered to -inhanced- interogation as "very late term abortion" would that work for you?"

Enhanced, sorry.

BARADIEL
You wrote: If we referred to enhanced interrogation as "very late term abortion" would that work for you?

I don't know about the lefties, but it sure works for me!

Judith:
You have taken some of my comments out of context. I do not think you did so intentionally. My comments on torture are earlier in the thread. The comment you read was made in conversation with another poster, and was off the topic of this article.

In...
Prop 8 violates the equal protection clause of the U.S. Constitution...

Prop 8 violates the equal protection clause of the U.S. Constitution...

As you well know, the 14th Amendment (to which you refer when referencing the "Equal Protection Clause") was adopted in 1868 after we experienced a “slightly differing view” on issues related to state’s rights. Without the 14th, the "B of A" would be applicable only to the federal government, not the states.

So, all that’s a very interesting recitation (snooze)... But, what’s that have to do with Prop. 8? Where’s the Constitution need for protection?

Congratulations, Mr. Blackwell
The best piece on these two subjects I've read in a long time. I'm saving this.

It's Simple
All of you BHO supporters own abortion, the murder of children. You voted for a monster who supports throwing live babies into a closet to die, this is your legacy, deal with it.

You also won the election and you have ended the war on terror. The next time the USA is hit, you own it. It's just that simple.

Baradiel:
You and I both oppose abortion. Initially you and I have the same response to the termination of our grandchildren. I too would do everything I could to discourage my daughter from aborting her child.

It is to your credit that you would stop short of force to achieve your goal. What you leave unsaid is why. Why would you stop short of using force against your daughter, when you advocate using the force of government against others?

Incidentally, while I would be equally disappointed if my daughter chose to have an abortion, I would not banish her from my life. I would continue to try to be a positive influence in her life.

B.O.'s Crimes Against Humanity
Excellent article. Another example of the "Alice in Wonderland" world we live in and the total lack of decency and conscience in the majority to even condone such evil.

Taxpayer funded abortions overseas

We do know Obama favors U.S. taxpayers funding abortions overseas.

Someday those nations may sue the United States for "Crimes Against Humanity". They will claim the U.S. funded the destruction of an entire generation of possible leaders, scientists, doctors, educators.

Liberals support U.S. Taxpayers funding abortions overseas.

oneyedman:
It's simple. The concept of equal protection under the law proscribes government, not just the federal government, from bestowing privilege upon one segment of society at the expense of another.

The government is not empowered to define anything but weights and measures. None of this argument is necessary if government is properly limited to its enumerated powers.

The States are constrained because inalienable rights are inviolable. Any legislation that violates any inalienable human right is null and void on its face and has no force of law.

InsightingTruth
"It is to your credit that you would stop short of force to achieve your goal. What you leave unsaid is why. Why would you stop short of using force against your daughter, when you advocate using the force of government against others?"

Because I couldn't stop her. She would do it anyway. In regards to the government, you are intentionally being obtuse. It is murder, and it should be treated like murder. Abortion "doctors" are guilty of multiple counts of premeditated murder, and should be treated appropriately. Women who have had abortions are guilty of accessory. That is why the government can use force. That is what you don't seem to get. Abortion is murder, that is why the government not only has the right, but the duty to use force to stop it.

"Incidentally, while I would be equally disappointed if my daughter chose to have an abortion, I would not banish her from my life. I would continue to try to be a positive influence in her life."

She murdered her child, end of story. I don't care if it was inside or outside of her womb, she murdered her child. If she repents of performing such a barbaric act, she would be forgiven. Until she realises just what she did, and repents, she would not be welcome in my house, just like any other unrepentant murderer.

Useful Idiots:
Funding abortion over seas, or here for that matter, exceeds the authority of our government. All thinking humans oppose that practice. But consistency requires that we oppose not just the funding of abortions, but all foreign aid, and all government funded abortions, and the tax exempt status of churches. Are you with me on all that?

Excellent Article!
Obama is nothing more than a Liberal-by-the-numbers desciple. His hyperbolic stance on waterboarding as torture is just political positioning to raise his star by diminishing others. No one is for torture and waterboarding as practiced in the USA on its troops and unsuspecting villans is not torture.

Obama's position on waterboarding is just partisan demagogy, nothing more. For Notre Dame to reward Obama for playing to his vengefull, political partisanship, it is truly a shame.

Baradiel:
You ARE empowered to use force to stop murder. We are all empowered to use force to stop murder, even deadly force if necessary.

Abortion is not defined as murder. That is why you stopped short of applying force to prevent your daughter from obtaining an abortion. The law is not on your side, and you know it.

Your cries of murder are mere hyperbole and you know that as well. When you engage in such exaggeration, you undermine the efforts of those of us that want to reduce abortions to the lowest possible level. If people who pretend that abortion equals murder would give up that intransigent stance, we could all join forces an pursue a moral resolution to the abortion impasse.

Baradiel:
You ARE empowered to prevent murder. We are all empowered to prevent murder, even with deadly force if necessary.

The reason you stop short of using force is because abortion is not murder, and you know it. The law is not on your side, and you know that as well.

Your cries of murder are hyperbole. When you, and others, employ such exaggerated claims, you undermine the efforts of those of us who want to see abortions reduced to the lowest possible level. Why not give up the unproductive rhetoric, and work toward a rational, real world solution to the abortion issue?

Thank you, Mr. Blackwell:
I have been trying to make this same point in several responses to op/eds in Townhall in recent days, but you have a far larger readership than I do.

InsightingTruth
Abortion is murder. Plain and simple. There no pretending at all. Whether the current law defines it as such is irrelevant.

"undermine the efforts of those of us that want to reduce abortions to the lowest possible level"

That is nonsense. That is like saying theft shouldn't be illegal, but we should improve the economic conditions so that people don't resort to theft. Not only that, if it were the case, if you all truely wanted to "keep it rare but safe", then you would support women being directed to adoption agencies first.

There is no exageration. At the moment of conception, a completely unique set of human DNA is created, and thus a new human being. By having an abortion, a human life is ended.

"we could all join forces an pursue a moral resolution to the abortion impasse."

There is only one moral resolution, not murdering children.

Sorry for the nearly duplicate posts.
My penultimate post appeared in the thread momentarily, then disappeared. That caused me to retype my reply.

Excellent insight, Mr. Blackwell!
This is a keeper.

In....
"It's simple. The concept of equal protection under the law proscribes government, not just the federal government, from bestowing privilege upon one segment of society at the expense of another."

Well, maybe it's not so simple. Me thinks perhaps you're failing to distinguish "rights" from "privileges".

You and I have inalienable rights that come from our creator. You and I delegated the protection of those rights to the federal government when we adopted the Constitution. It then became the government's job to protect these rights through its enforcement powers. [Ohhh and what a great job they do, don't they? How's that protection of the right to private property working out? But, I digress...] Bottom line is that the governemnt does not create "rights", except as further explained below.

Privileges are not rights; they are government created "privileges" for those that meet the qualifications set by the government for its own purposes. A great example is a driver's. Driving is a privilege, not a right. Marriage is just one more example. There's not inherent "right" here.

Having said that, once you meet the government's qualifications and the "privilege" is conferred, you have a "right" to the privilege. Hence, the government can only take away your "privilege" after due process of law.

So, still think this is simple???

Personally, I think California should allow gay marriage, but for only one reason: Why shouldn't the gay community have to suffer along with the rest of us?

We need to stay STRONG!
The left has no honor, decency or self-respect. They have no reverence for life whatso-ever and have been overcome with lust and licentiousness. They sneer at virtue, their consciences seared and calloused. All spiritual desire is extinguished, and gross materialism and fleshly lusts have become their gods. The left have become totally shockproof, so that the vilest, bloodiest crimes are accepted as normal behavior. Those of us that have not been possesed need to stay strong in the Lord!

These are our darkest days.
God help us.

WOODEN HORSE
Folks --

Extermination of the undesireable is a red herring distraction.

We are enamored with the wooden horse in the courtyard.

Heaven help us -- please!

-- Twinkletoes

Baradiel
I am so sorry. I'll pray for you and your daughter. Your heart must be broken.

Baradiel:
Please, let's not run off on a tangent. Theft does not fit into this discussion.

Legitimate law is not irrelevant. Law is essential to civil society.

I do support adoption. What made you think otherwise?

I make no arguments regarding the life in the womb, anymore than I would argue that a person in need of a kidney is not alive. Life, in of itself, bestows no positive rights.

The need of another puts no obligation on me to provide for their need. I may choose to help, but no one has legitimate authority to compel me to help.

oneyedman:
Without intent to cause offense, let me say that your last post is a bit confusing. Perhaps I am just not smart enough to correctly interpret your syntax, but I think we are in fundamental agreement.

In order to clarify you meaning please answer one question:

What is the source of government power?

Insighting Truth
You have a very skewed "interpretation" of the Constitution and Declaration of Independence. Instead of interpreting them, look at the words. It is quite clear.

What part of "right to life," escapes you?

Scientist, across the political spector (spelling on purpose), have agreed that human life begins at conception.

Many of your liberal congress or senate persons, like John Kerry, have stated that life begins at conception. Yet they have a perfect record for abortion. That makes them hyprocrites as well as accessories to murder.

Yet we believe that a womens complete right is to abort on demand. How freaking selfish is that!!!

Prove me wrong. Use facts for a change.

Joycey:
I don't know if Baradiel even has a daughter. Our discussion was hypothetical.

Joycey
Thanks, but it was a hypothetical question Insighting "Truth" posed to me. I appreciate your concern anyway. Won't turn down the prayers though, can't have too many of those!

Insighting"Truth"
"Please, let's not run off on a tangent. Theft does not fit into this discussion."

There was no tangent. Abortion is murder. Those who support the legalization of abortion support murder.

"Legitimate law is not irrelevant. Law is essential to civil society."

Slavery was once a legitimate law, as was segregation (both things democrats supported, I might add). There were even legitimate laws on the books that made it legal for men to beat their wives.

"I do support adoption. What made you think otherwise?"

I didn't say you don't support adoption. Reread my post.

"I make no arguments regarding the life in the womb, anymore than I would argue that a person in need of a kidney is not alive."

You make no arguments about life in the womb, but then claim abortion isn't murder. Guess what, you did make an argument about life in the womb.

"Life, in of itself, bestows no positive rights."

Really? You might want to reread a couple very important documents from our history.

"The need of another puts no obligation on me to provide for their need. I may choose to help, but no one has legitimate authority to compel me to help."

That has nothing to do with this. Now who is going on a tangent?

The US freed over 50,000,000
by deposing Saddam Hussein and the Taliban.

Since Lincoln freed the slaves (3,900,000), the US has freed 12,000,000 slaves by winning the Span-Am. War in 1898, 368,000,000 in Europe in 1918, 638,000,000 in Europe in 1945, 72,000,000 Japanese in 1945, and 3,000,000+ S. Koreans in 1952. No other nation in history can make such claims, and we did not establish perm. colonial or imperial gov't's anywhere.

Our only terrible loss, due to libs. anti-war-ism, is Vietnam and Cambodia, where 2,000,000 were killed in *re-education camps* after the fall of Saigon and escapees took to boats to get away from the N. Vietnamese, and another 2,000,000 in Cambodia, called the killing fields.

they can not see
the left will never see the truth, we can talk untill we are blue in the face;
satan is alive and well in these people. They need to abort the evil spirit that is infesting their souls and blinding them to the truth. All we can do is pray for them that think a new life is more dangerous to them than the evil they allow to reside in them.

Insightful Truth

I agree with you. Liberals, like Obama, who support U.S. taxpayers funding abortions overseas are not thinking people.

I disagree about Tax exempt status of churches. To tax a church would amount to double taxation. Once when the members of that church earn the money. Twice when they donate their earnings to the church.

I also agree about cutting off foreign aid with one exception. When Italy, Mexico, or Turkey suffer from earth quakes, volcanos, floods etc etc., we can provide aid during those times of emergency. U.S. Taxpayers have the authority to support that kind of aid and since its their money and does not conflict with the U.S. Constitution, it should be done.

Only Liberals support using foreign aid for social enginering abroad. That is one of the reasons terrorist claim they attack us.

They don't attack us because we are free. They don't attack us because we buy their oil. They don't attack us because we sell them food. They don't attack us because we trade goods and services.

They attack us because Liberals are always trying to impose their Liberal values on other cultures.

Don:
I do not think that the Constitution needs interpretation. I think it means what it says, but one must actually know what the words mean.

When the framers used the term life, they were not talking about the pre-born. If you can cite an instance where they specifically said that they were, I'd like to know about it.

I have not the least doubt that life begins at conception. I have not the least doubt that a foetus is a baby is a human being. When have I said otherwise.

The above beliefs notwithstanding I haven't the power to force another living human being to endure a pregnancy. I also do not have any right to hire a thug to enforce my will on their person. If you have such a right please tell where you got it?

gitmo/terrorist
well written article

non uniformed comabatents should be executed
just like both sides did during wwII.

no trials once interrogated, executed immediatly

if abortion was
not to protected and readily available; I personally know some women that would not have killed their children. It is just too easy!

I meant
"so protected"

Baradiel:
I am running a little short on time so I'll be brief. I have very much enjoyed our discussion today, even though it was off topic regarding this article.

Neither slavery nor segregation were ever legitimate law. They were legislation posing as law. Legislation does not equal law.

The rights that the framers spoke of were all negative rights. Such rights put no burden on anyone else. The framers found no positive rights in nature. There is information available regarding positive versus negative rights, check it out.

Useful Idiots:
Church is a business. It should be taxed just the same as any other business, neither more nor less.

The purpose of the foreign aid is irrelevant. The Constitution does not authorize the feds to spend our money on such things.

Terrorists say they attack us because we interfere in their internal affairs. There may be other unspoken reasons as well, but the right place to start addressing the problem of terrorism is with what they tell us directly. Then we can get into the subtleties of their motivations.

InsightingTruth
I thank you for being halfway rational. However, we did not get off topic from the article. It specifically mentions the torture and dismemberment of children that is legal in this country.

"Neither slavery nor segregation were ever legitimate law. They were legislation posing as law. Legislation does not equal law."

They were the law of the land, were they not? Then by your on definition, abortion is not a legitimate law.

"The rights that the framers spoke of were all negative rights. Such rights put no burden on anyone else. The framers found no positive rights in nature. There is information available regarding positive versus negative rights, check it out."

Now you are channelling Obama. The term negative rights doesn't even make sense.

gitmo/terrorist
I think that is what the troops are thinking as well.

Shocked
Iam shocked by knowing that 50 million healthy children have been tortured and murdered in the United States of America for no other reason than { I didn't want the child now }
I asked a liberal friend of mine the other day what he would do if some thugs kidnap his family and was going to kill them, and that he had captured one of the gang who knew where his family was and how they were going to be killed.
My friend said that why he would do whatever it took to get the information out of the thug. I would him that he could not do that because then he would be tortureing, he said screw that he was saving his family...I just smiled and said now you know what our CIA and other are doing for other families, and a little water never hurt anyone...

Insightful Truth

Well you may believe churches are a business and their is a lot of evidence to support that claim for some churches. But not all churches.

Since the American taxpayer, after a fair and honest debate over the years has decided to support providing an exemption, you have an uphill climb advancing your cause.

What many people who watch MSNBC don't know is that according to the U.S. Supreme Court, International treaties trump the U.S. Constitution. So if we enter into a mutual aid treaty with another nation, we are not violating the U.S. Constitution.

I happen to disagree with this interpretation but you know how Liberal Judges are. They don't care what the U.S. Constitution says.

You are correct, terrorist do say we interfer with their internal affairs. They really resent U.S. Liberals telling them how to treat criminals, Women, children and many other human rights issues in their societies. They believe their society evolved differently than ours and our Liberals should respect the diveristy of cultures on the planet. Since our Liberals insisit on imposing their values on others, we get attacked.

They also really resent the U.S. exporting Hollywood values around the world. From their standpoint, Hollywood Liberals are polluting their society.


Baradiel:
Please do not associate me with Obama, we have virtually nothing in common.

The inalienable rights that we are endowed with at birth are all negative rights. Please, just look it up. I don't have time to explain it to you, I must leave momentarily.

To understand a little more about law please read "The Law" by Frederic Bastiat. It is short, clear, and a very easy read.

If you think that the only thing it takes to create a legitimate law is the power to enforce it, you are at odds with the founders. Might does not make right.

Thank you for conceding that I am at least somewhat rational.

Check it Out - Black Conservative

http://theblacksphere.blogspot.com


Yes
Let's call this lesson " The western method of soft core terrorism - abortion "

InsightingTruth
"Please do not associate me with Obama, we have virtually nothing in common."

You do have one glaring thing in common with him. Devaluing of human life.

"If you think that the only thing it takes to create a legitimate law is the power to enforce it, you are at odds with the founders. Might does not make right"

Then by that logic, legalized infanticide is not a legitimate law. It is in the same category as slavery, segregation, etc. They are all equally dehumanizing.

Again, negative rights make no sense. Those are the rights that we, as living human beings have, that we were given by our creater.

Insighting truth 12:30
So do I have the responsibility to stop someone from committing murder? If I don't, aren't I committing a crime? Seems that if you believe human life starts in the womb you have the responsibility to be against their murdering their unborn child. Otherwise, you're an accessory.

I'm curious what you believe the framers of the Constitution would say about abortion. I'm absolutely sure that they would invoke the term "right to life" to include an unborn child.

Also, explain to me why, if a person shoots and kills a pregnant woman, it's considered murdering two people. But if a woman actively kills her child, through abortion, it's not. Seems the law is paranoid. It also bends to the will of the selfish.

Two Stages of Involvement
I am compelled to intervene to prevent abortion and work for its banning because I have a duty to my neighbor, in this case the unborn child, to prevent his death.
Let's just say for the sake of argument that while I believe abortion to be a moral and social wrong (which it surely is) that it is not my business, but the business of the woman involved alone. This becomes an entirely invalid argument when public money is involved to promote or pay for abortion, as Obama has done with his lifting of the ban on using tax dollars for foreign abortions. If I have to pay for it, it is definitely my business.
The pro-abortion forces want me to PAY for abortions as well as allow them, and thus invalidate their own argument.

Blackwell
Best article I've read this year. Excellent.

Not sure how those people do it.

Socialized Healthcare and abortion
I'm guessing that means we will be paying for everyone's abortions.

obama, the fraud and imposter, supports

the torture and murder of millions of innocent pre-born human beings. He is so avid about this that he is using taxpayers' monies to advance his torture agenda.

How do Americans stand there and allow this man who was not even born in the U.S.A. lead this horrible agenda of torture and murder.

obama, the fraud and imposter, is a spy for some foreign power. He should be brought to justice.

obama, the fraud and imposter, is the

perfect example of why the founders restricted the office of POTUS to citizens born in the U.S.A.

obama, the fraud and imposter, was born in Kenya just as his paternal grandmother says.

Wolves in sheep's clothing
Tony Campolo and Jim Wallis-- These men are not obedient to the Word of God. "Sojourners" and "Common Gooders" and "Social Justice followers" are believers in Communist/Humanist doctrine. They support abortion and sexual immorality. They are not followers of Jesus Christ. Because they are not obedient to His doctrine. Titus 1:16 They profess to know God but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient, and worthless for any good deed.

Their doctrine is based on communism and their good deeds reflect their communist doctrine.


True believers.
First comes Faith in sound doctrine.
Then comes Grace(divine influence upon the heart, and it's reflection in the life)
Then come "good deeds" based on sound doctrine and grace.

"In..."
"Without intent to cause offense, let me say that your last post is a bit confusing. Perhaps I am just not smart enough to correctly interpret your syntax, but I think we are in fundamental agreement.

In order to clarify you meaning please answer one question:

What is the source of government power? "

After all the battles I've weathered, I've left things like "personal offense" behind long, long ago. I mean, let's face it - does anyone really give a rat's rump if I am offended? Ahhh, no. That's just a liberal "pay attention to me!!, pay attention to me!!! gambit. Nonetheless, thanks for your consideration.

Anyway, thanks for the question. It works like this: God created us and through His creation and by His grace He endowed us with certain inalienable rights. Among these are life, liberty and private property (I prefer the original language (i.e. property) here, rather than the later compromise amendment "pursuit of happiness" nonsense.)

Man, in turn, gathers together in communities and forms "government" for the common good (yes, I know, I know... what "common good" is there in private property confiscation. Hey, I'm talking "theory" here, OK?).

Hence, the "government" thus formed has no independent power; it derives its power solely and directly from the consent (meaning agreement, or stated differently, constitution) of the governed.

Rights, therefore, flow from God to Man to government; not from God to government to man (or, as the left would prefer, from them to us). Man can have no more rights than those given by God, and government can have no more rights than those given by man.

Savy?

Do the neo-fascist...
...democrats/Obamunists who post on here (on orders from Moveon.org and other Georgie Boy Soros-funded puppetmaster organizations) believe they will end up being the slaveholders of humanity or just another beast of burden in the herd of slaves that the Obamafia is dividing us in to?

In his world view there are the rulers and there are the ruled. Freedom has no place in his totalitarian dictatorship. If Dimwit Douglas and the other toadies of fascism expound upon the merits of socialism, do they hope to be included in those spared the hades America will be when freedom and prosperity are crushed?

Do they hope to be compensated for their party line adherence as happened and happens in every totalitarian dictatorship from Russia to Cuba to Venezuela?

Take No Prisioners
To eliminate this dog and pony show, establish a policy whereby we take no prisioners. Make and all who wage war against us know that we take no prisioners. Without prisioners, we will have no interrogation problems especially since our glorious leaders cannot agree on what to do with them. It would cut our budget, eliminate furnishing a world of religious materials from every corner of the world, terminate our need for a battery of interpreters and dieticians to make sure the diet is compatable with their delicate systems and save on toilet paper, which I doubt many had ever seen before. If we are not careful, we may be headed into another 1950-1954 McCarthy purge which ruined a great many innocent people, took up a great deal of Congress' time and resulted in nothing. Senator McCarthy, Republican senator from Wisconsin, died in obscurity and the government went back to work, finally! I was an adult at the time and knew it would fizzle, and said so. That time, McCarthy was going after Communists, this time, the Liberals are going after the Bush administration. History does indeed repeat itself, unfortunately!

Not Me, Joycey

'Socialized Healthcare and abortion...
I'm guessing that means we will be paying for everyone's abortions." Not me. I'll be hiring Timothy Geithner as my tax lawyer, so I won't have to pay anything.

insightful at 12:30
Your statement concerning whether the framers considered life to begin at conception or birth actually can be answered. In the same way that one would look to the usage of the word commerce at the time the Constitution was crafted, both among the framers and in newspapers or other sources, one can also look for what the concept of life was at that time.
I also would have hoped this would be unnecessary to point out, but frankly abortion was not something under discussion during the federal convention, remember, the purpose of the convention was the discussion of how to have a stronger government on behalf of the states, not the people. In almost every state ratification debate, convention attendees were emphatic to assure the delegates that the Constitution would not allow the federal government to reach into the affairs of the states, and that would include defining murder.

The History of Abortion
Abortion goes back in history to prehistoric times. However, one thing becomes apparent when you study this history. The techniques used for abortion were very dangerous, far more dangerous than pregnancy itself. Early Greek and Roman medical texts refer to abortion as necessary when the fetus has already died but not been expelled, and they also recognized entropic pregnancies as possibly necessitating abortion. Basic abortion surgery existed two thousand years ago, but was considered very dangerous, a last-ditch solution. Abortificants, such as tansy and pennyroyal, are often poisonous in the levels necessary to induce abortion, as are some of the other popular herbs. In the early 20th century, about one abortion in six resulted in the death of the mother, and many more resulted in sterilization or serious illness.
The point is that abortion was not considered to be a viable medical treatment, but dangerous quackery except in the most extreme cases.

Inviting the UNTruth
Another liberal homosexual here to bring us to enlightenment, what a load of crap, you should be waterboarded until you are dead, Cheers

PS. Tyler you are a living piece of crap also, Cheers

sounds about right
to simplify this article..

the left would like to protect the rights of mass murderers and those who wish death upon thousands of innocent US civilians

and...

slaughter in massess the innocent children who don't have a chance at life

makes a lot of sense... if ur a complete moron

Their Consciences are Seared
Obama's support for partial birth abortion and his fight against the Born Alive Act were the first (and sufficient by themselves) reasons I rejected this man as a Presidential candidate. Such inhumanity is monstrous and indefensible. BO has gone on to prove a hundred-fold that he is not worthy to be adulated as he is. How blind and without conscience are many Americans. Truly sickening.

Joel
What about people that vote for politicians that are pro-abortion? If OBAMA selects a pro-abortion justice isn't there blood on the hands of every American that voted for him. What happens when they push socialized healthcare on us and abortions are paid for by us all. We will all be guilty of murder.

Joel
Am I now quilty because our tax dollars are being sent around the world to pay for abortions?

14th amendment and abortion
One of the sophistries employed by unqualified SCOTUS members was to find the right to privacy, which "right" somehow also conferred the right to commit murder, in the 14th amendment.
First, the 14th amendment was never truly ratified, but forced upon the states. OK, lets say that it holds. The 39th congress in discussing this never touched on privacy or abortion. They touched on exactly what the amendment says, no Bill of Rights inclusion despite the present day assertions. They only sought to do one thing and that was to ensure that the freed slaves woud be truly free. Life, liberty and property.
No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
Guess what? Not once has there arisen a case where Congress in response to a state specifically committing a violation of the first section of the 14th actually passed legislation.

Censorship?
So you guys removed my post and then you complain about the Left stifling freedom of speech?

How absurd.

Especially when you allow inanities like "r729" posting "Ralph, You were born. Isn't that a huge crime against humanity".

Of course if we traced r729's genealogy we'd probably end up at some jelly-like amoeba substance.

Or you allow Alex who says "Ralph, I'm hoping that you are being sarcastic, if not, you would make the perfect poster boy for abortion."

Of course I won't reply that Alex is the product of a partial abortion!

As for Skip ... maybe we'll skip that one because he doesn't know his history. Like President Obama said "these guys take pride in their ignorance!"

Skip talks about "enjoying the rights that better Americans died to secure for him."

You mean like Black soldiers who fought in Vietnam for their country only to return as SECOND CLASS citizens of the United States of America?

All of you yahoos better head on down to Reverend Wright's church for a lesson in America's history.

since it came up
Another tortured finding in the 14th is that of gay rights. Specificaly gay marriage. Marriage is not a right. Rights are these; freedom of liberty, freedom of life, and freedom of property. It would be wrong if we laws were enacted that prevented one's freedom of movement, that put one's life in jeopardy, or prevented one from owning property or conducting business, and making use of the legal system. Marriage is a sanctioning of the union between two people, not sex acts, or friendships. Thus society, the people that compose it always reserve the right to determine what they will sanction, or approve. It is not a one's right to force me or anyone else to sanction a perverse union. Does one freedom to move about hindered become impinged upon? NO. Is one still free to own property? Yes. Is one's right to work or conduct business, and keep the fruit of one's labors restricted? NO. Anyway I hope this posting does take away from the discussion.

Guilt
If you vote pro choice. If you send your money to pro choice candidates. If you refuse to vote for anyone or any policy that is pro life. If you think it doesn't matter if a candidate is pro choice. If you think it doesn't matter if a person is pro choice. If you think a woman has a right to choose and the law should not militate against abortion.(The womans body is not aborted, just the babys) You have the blood of innocents on your hands. Offenses must surely come, but woe unto them by whom they come. If you believe that abortion is evil(and it is) then do something about it. Give your time, money, abilities to fight against it. Offer the counsel of life to unwed mothers without criticism or rejection. Write your congressman until he knows you by your first name. Pray until God hears and answers.

Innocence
Adopt the baby. Adopt the unwed mother. Help her get a job, learn a skill, complete high school. And pray for her. Your opinion is negated by the opinion of abortionists. Give the words of life found in the Holy Scriptures.

Joycey
"What happens when they push socialized healthcare on us and abortions are paid for by us all. "

What happens when they require abortion because one has had her allotment of babies and "for the good of society" further childbearing must be discouraged and stopped?

The Political Abortion of Nancy Pelosi
http://jeannie-ology.com/?p=1793

RALPH Wiggam
"So you guys removed my post and then you complain about the Left stifling freedom of speech?"

Its a privately owned site. They can do whatever they want. When government does it, that is another story.

"Of course if we traced r729's genealogy we'd probably end up at some jelly-like amoeba substance."

I thought according to your dogma, we all come that.

"You mean like Black soldiers who fought in Vietnam for their country only to return as SECOND CLASS citizens of the United States of America?"

I seem to recall an ammendment was passed granting everyone the same rights.

"All of you yahoos better head on down to Reverend Wright's church for a lesson in America's history."

Don't forget the Necronomicon. Lots of good facts in there.

Talk of Torture!
Ken Blackwell, thanks from the bottom of my heart for your splendid
article of torture and conscience. The views that you have put forth
are the same ones I try to inject in my local large newspaper, but
the liberals have that sewed up. If I had the authority, I would make it mandatory that every citizen who votes in an election for people
that believe in abortion, should be made to see the graphic movies of these 'innocents' being slaughtered, not waterboarded. What in God's name is happening in our once blessed country. That's the word. Blessed! God in His infinite mercy once blessed this wonderful country when we turned toward Him, but in the past 20 to 40 years we have turned our backs on Him.
I firnly believe He was instrumental in electing the ersatz messiah and He will leave us to destroy this once beautiful country. If you want to know who is destroying our way of life, look in the mirror; the 52% that voted in the last election.
By the way, Janet Napolitano, I am a rightwing extremist, who loves this country with a passion. God Bless America, after He finishes with it.

Louis T
I believe your right. God does have things under control; so hold on were in for a ride, the left has got us into a mess, and I hate to say this but I can wait for them to see the true.

Americans Against Abortion
Today a Gallup poll was released that said 51% considered themselves pro-life and 42% pro choice. Last year's figures were 50% pro choice and 44% pro life. 76% said abortion should be banned in all or many cases, and 22 % said it should be always legal.
We're winning. http://news.yahoo.com/i/718

Simply stop abortion.
See what happens if it's not a choice.

A fellow I know in the blogosphere...
...has predicted that if there is a second civil war in the United States, one characteristic which will make it stand out among other conflicts of its kind will be the sheer number of assassinations, or attempts thereof, and how all of those who will find themselves marked for death in this way will come from all levels and sections of society... even some parts of society that few or none would think of.

Granted, the man is not advocating anything, merely predicting future behavior based on his accumulated knowledge of history and his own personal life experiences.

Germans in 1932
, , , weren't really that anti-Semitic in general, but were willing to vote for a candidate who was because so much else of his program was appealing to them that they were willing to overlook the little evil corner-- after all, anti-Semitism was strictly grandstanding for the rubes anyway. All of the German nation paid the price for their compromise.
No compromise with pro-abortion candidates. Like anti-Semitism, anti-Black, or anti-freedom attitudes, pro-abortion should make any candidate untouchable-- unless you want a share in the guilt, which will be rightfully yours.

First
According to you then the civil war illegal, The first world war was illegal, as well as world war two, the Korean conflict, the Vietnam war and so on.

I've got news for you pal, Congress did declare war on Iraq, and did approve money to fund it.

Hardly Unusual for the Left
Look at the monumental pile of human bodies accumulated by the brutal totalitarian regimes of the Left, whether Hitler's Germany or Stalin's Russia, or Mao, or the Khmer Rouge of Cambodia. According to the record, The Left has little general regard for persons at any state, born or unborn.

This is no contradiction.

Their opposition to capital punishment is, however, an odd one to rationalize. Maybe it has to do with the observation that people of the Left are more confused about things like cause-and-effect.

Speaking of "Crimes Against Humanity",
Has anyone of clout investigated this: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/repeal-fire-safe-cigarett e-laws

You may have to type this next link in, but this is VERY real and happening now; under the radar here in the U.S.. I did not serve in the Marine Corps for this government mandated fascism - especially when it involves secret genocide.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mTXZVCOM0Y

You may have to type this one in too, but here's one more. Please, please read:

http://www.topix.com/forum/business/tobacco/T2EIG851IPJGQ26 DU

Will somebody please do something about this?

Barry
For the life of me I cannot figure out why ND wants to give this guy an honorary degree. What has he done? (other than rack up debt, make our country less safe and kiss up to our enemies) As I responded to a post earlier, this is my view on life:
My son will be here in 4 weeks. Looking at the sonogram when our son was just 5 weeks changed my view forever. I have been conservative all of my life, but did not give much thought to the "life" issue. After watching Baby J moving around on that screen, I knew he was alive. It wasn't my "choice" to determine when Baby J was alive. He moved and moved and moved some more. He was alive and well. The thing with you liberals that I don't understand is if this were a dog or a cat that had puppies or kittens you would be up in arms if we killed them or harmed them in anyway.
Someone said:
DNA in of itself, doesn’t define a “human life”.
WOW! Did a light bulb go off in your head? DNA does define life. A plant, bacteria,etc. for the most part anything that has life has DNA. Life + Life = Life

roddrepub.townhall.com

RR

Re: BARADIEL Jim Crow?
"Its a privately owned site. They can do whatever they want"

You mean like stifle dissenting views?

"I thought according to your dogma, we all come that."

My post was about crimes against humanity like cluster bombs and white phosphorus but you wouldn't know that , would you because the post was censored.

"Don't forget the Necronomicon. Lots of good facts in there."

I'd better let you get back to Alice in Wonderland.

I am shocked
I am shocked, SHOCKED, to hear our beloved Pres. Obama has not proclaimed this "D&E" practice as torture!

End sarcasm. OTOH, I really AM puzzled why he wants to promote abortion around the globe. I mean, why would he do that if those aborted babies were not Americans? Does this mean he wants to destroy countries OTHER than ours?

Status
Mr. Blackwell, thank you for explaining why granting status to these unlawful combatants under the Geneva Convention or any other law of armed conflict undermines the purpose and intent of these protections. The lack of legal status is intended to discourage targeting civilians or using them for cover and concealment.

The Obamageddon jihad
There are two reasons Obama supports abortion and homosexuality...One reason is because he is like satan in determining what is good and what is evil... The second reason is for JIHAD... Murder American babies or allow homosexuals to marry and NOT PRODUCE American babies..This makes jihad much easier..
This video tells the story...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU&eurl=http%3A%2F% 2Fbipartreport%2Ecom%2F2009%2F05%2Fspreading%2Dfear%2Dabout %2Dthe%2Dfaith%2Dof%2Dislam%2Dwhos%2Dresponsible%2F&feature =player_embedded

Ruth..
...Seriously, wow.

As a liberal, I hang out on these forums to learn from folks I don't agree with.

But sometimes I come across a post as totally insane as yours and I wonder if communication and understanding is even possible.

Are there any conservatives out there that will vouch for how totally f'd up her POV is? Or is that kind of the consensus view on the right these days?

Thank you, Mr. Blackwell!
Thank you, Sir, for a great, great article. Wish I had the money to print it as a full page ad in lots of newspapers. My newspaper will not print a letter to the editor from me because I cite court decisions, laws, statistics, Scripture, etc. I try to write nothing but things that cannot be refuted by BS. The editor does not seem to like that (I am a conservative.) I am always polite and respectful, but I am blacklisted.

Please keep the Truth coming. Thanks, again.

paranoidmystic
Ruth is crazy and I'm a conservative. Unfortunately we can't keep these people off the site. Flag it, I did.

I can only hope we are not judged by the likes of her.

My guess is 99.9% of TH readers would agree she's bonkers.

Many times you'll find people posing as conservatives and saying crazy things to discredit, so keep an eye out for that too.

Level headed opposition is always welcome here so keep coming, but be prepared for some heated debate! lol.

Thank you!
Thank you Mr Blackwell! The slaughter of babies across the country is a national disgrace and a sin that God has taken nations out for. Sacrificing children on the altars of ido;s.

paranoidmystic
I just want to add, that abortion is probably the single issue that can make conservatives completely lose their minds at times.

You seem like a reasonable guy, so let me ask you something.

Imagine for a minute, this issue from the serious pro-lifer's point of view. Now, your the moral person you are and you truly believed, with all you know to be true, your heart and soul, that aborting an unborn child was actual murder. I know you don't, but imagine if you TRULY believed that was the case. Muse on that for a little while, I mean really try to make yourself believe it for a moment.

Knowing there were millions of abortions going on would that not get you incensed, to say the least. Could you imagine how thinking about that would be in fact, too much to think about?

Just an exercise on understanding the other point of view. I can tell you, right or wrong, that is what many pro-lifer's truly believe.

paranoidmystic Location: CA Reply # 2 D
Just for disclosure I have to say that I am one of those people. I truly find it morally repugnant for Obama to be speaking at Duke. I'm going to speak out against it and criticize it.

I find the nuanced argument in Roe vs. Wade and the, when does life begin debate, also morally disgusting. I think once you fertilize an egg, if one does not intervene to stop it, in a number of months you will be giving birth to a child whether its timing is good for you or not. So, how can it not be life at conception? If it wasn't life, if it wasn't a child, there would be nothing to abort. So, it enrages me too.

So, pro-abortion folks find this a difficult subject to debate on the same level as say, taxes, because of the sincere perceptions of the opposition. But, you would be wrong if you thought it was political...let Hillary Clinton come out as a pro-lifer and watch how many conservatives care who her husband is or who he slept with, it trumps almost everything. Hillary would have a whole new group of supporters.

Marlson
You should write an article for TH.

Thanks for preserving my respect for conservatives.

Thank you
Exposing the hypocrisy of liberalism in your article, refreshes my soul. We are devoid of media morality and fairness, respect for human life, giving credence to Obama on his far left Abortion crusade, and his penchant to be Mousalini or our nation, we either confront this huge threat, or follow history into irrelevance or destruction. Thank you for your beliefs and articulating them clearly.

Obama Administration, et.al. are Evil!!
Great Article Mr. Blackwell. You describe it so sublimely how corrupt and amoral Obama, Sebelius and the entire Liberal Establishment in this country are. And, these same Humane Liberals, will sit outside prisons and cry, chant, pray and moan over the impending death sentences of some who have tortured, raped and murdered children, but fully support the torture and dismemberment of unborn children without shedding a single tear for the fetus or for the would-be mother who has lost her soul, and in most cases, the taxpayers are forced to pay for these procedures that most civilzed people do not agree with.

God, help us all, if Obama and his diabolical schemes actually succeed. Obama and his entire administration and his cohorts in the U.S. Congress need to be exposed and removed from office. The only means that, We The People, have to do that is to Unite and Vote in Record numbers to replace these morally bankrupt individuals from office, and for the MSM and their talking heads such as Oprah Winfrey, The Nags on The View, and others, they need to be boycotted and their miserable shows that support and promote these Scoundrels and the Despicable Acts that they condone, will also disappear from the airwaves, and then Oprah and these other Immoral Feel Good performers can disappear into the dark shadows where they belong.

Ken Blackwell - Excellent Article!

The article was well thought out and very pertinent in today's worldwide cultural war of the conservative and traditionalists against the liberals, progressives, and socialists.

It is also interesting to note that the conservatives are always being criticized by the left as being mean spirited, when in reality it is the left that is mean, wicked, and terrible in spirit.

Before socialist usurper Obama shuts down Internet communications on Americans to prevent this kind of discourse, I hope to see many more well thought out articles like this one. This is how we learn and how we grow.

Maturity is when you call things by their right names.

Bravo Zulu, Ken Blackwell.

A point of FACT . . .
the military IS already on a "watch list". The military personnel that travel in uniform are AUTOMATICALLY subject to "special screening" by TSA personnel. They have been told that it is a normal part of their travel "procedures". The "government" already mistrusts the military to a certain degree.
It is time to make the "head muslim in charge" (obama) as impotent as possible by OPPOSING ALL powers that he and his lackeys are usurping. With luck, the "liberal (chicago) political machine" will implode starting with pelosi.

A Great Article
In response to MR.Blackwell and the last few statements about forcing us to pay for and or perform abortions. I believe the so-called "mystery passage" protects us this forced "belief" in this horrible torture technique called abortion. In the passage it basically states that one cannot be compelled by the state to alter their belief or be forced to believe in anothers interpretation of mystery of life or of existence. That would mean to abortion practitioners that they cannot be compelled to believe that is a life they are taking when cutting up a baby's body piece by piece, by the same token, people against abortion cannot be compelled to belive that it is not a life and can't be compelled to take the life of a child against his or her will nor to pay for it. By this standard no public funds can go to abortion clinics here or abroad. And no doctor or nurse can be forced to take part in this insidious act of murder and torture.

paranoidmystic
why does that video shock you? You know only the strong survive, and when you kill your own at the rate we have been, and the politically correct BS that we are forced to practice. This is the result! Wake up. There is evil out there, and it doesn't care about you and me!

Addendum
My point was to Mr. Blackwell and any lawyer out their(please respond). Why hasn't anyone or a group of council mounted a defense or opposition on behalf of those of us who do not believe in abortion and don't want to pay for it using the mystery passage of the appropriate Supreme Court case. My contention is that even though the case was to reaffirm a constitutional right to an abortion, that may be all it does. Our beliefs, as well as abortionists, cannot be formed under the compulsion of the state. Therefore we cannot be compelled to perform abortions or pay for them. To do so would be doing damage to our dignity and denying us our due liberty to " define one's own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and the mystery of human life."

Lawyers please respond.

The Abortionists On Torture
I have taught in classrooms in old school buildings where the temperature reaches the same levels as that which is called "torture" by the braying moonbats. Maybe I should charge my local school board with war crimes?

Blackwell's reference to Justice Breyer's defense of partial-birth abortion puts the Leftists' outrage over enhanced interrogation techniques into perspective. Innocent babies can be mutilated for being an inconvenience, but waterboarding three high-ranking Islamo-fascists and gaining life-saving information is a crime against humanity.

By the way, didn't former Illinois state senator Barack Vladimir Hussein Soweto Obama vote against the Born Alive Act that was intended to protect the lives of babies who survied botched abortions? Just stick 'em in a closet and let them die. Oh well, those 45 million babies who've been exterminated since Roe had it coming.

edgycater.blogspot.com

Terrorists are not human...
They deserve no more respect than a cockroach. If captured alive get out of one what you can and then put a bullet in his brain.

The "if it saves just one life" mantra of the Left is seldom heard in this debate because they know thousands of lives have been saved by the enhanced interrogation of terrorists.

They certainly don’t play the “if it saves just one child” card!

The folks who undertake the mission to keep us safe, whether through overt military action, or covert operations, have taken more abuse from the Left than anyone deserves... and it continues.

Today is Armed Forces Day. We should all be thankful for the men and women who do what we are unable or unwilling to do in defense of our nation. Sometimes it is ugly and violent work. So be it.

Thanks to God and to them and to their families for rendering service to the USA. Our armed forces deserve our support to the fullest. The pandering of the Left to the enemies of the USA by trumping up this torture campaign is insulting.


Ridiculous
Let me say this upfront--I don't believe in abortion. But, this argument is a waste of time. No LAW is going to STOP ABORTIONS. Only lack of demand will do so. To suggest otherwise is simply to reveal an overwhelming ignorance of human nature.

Abortions predate this country by a thousand years or more. And what fractional numbers of them you might reduce in banning abortion will be more than offset by the number of women dying from illegal abortions.

If you would all, on both sides of this issue, turn your energies to prevention, you could render this discussion and, indeed, any need for a law for or against abortion moot.

Speaking as a woman, I am more concerned with the loss of control over my own body than I am worried about whether or not I will have an abortion. I know I won't. If other women, however, do not choose to follow my example, I will not consign them to riskier methods that may result in their deaths for that, too, would make me complicit in their murder.

Lest we get bogged down with emotions here, I am not defending Obama--I am defending, however, a woman's right to do with her body that which she alone chooses to do. This is her inalienable right, whether I think it's the correct path or not. And I am also asking all of you to quit trying to legislate human nature--accept what it is, and work, work, work to prevent abortion from the demand side of this equation. It's the only equitable solution that respects not only human nature, but a woman's right to her own body.

Let me ask the men here if they believe the government should have the right to control their sperm? Or should we as a nation ignore human nature and ban the ejaculation of sperm into any womb solely in the interest of reducing the need for abortions? Perhaps we should give every God-given biological process of the body itself over to the government for its approval? Would that satisfy everyone?


Ridiculous? A question for M.L.B.
"Speaking as a woman, I am more concerned with the loss of control over my own body "

Then you and that unborn baby have something in common. He or she has no control over what someone does to his or her body either.

There IS NO HOPE for Notre Dame.
And NONE for anyone who would hurt a child.

Al Qaida is NOT governed by the Geneva Conventions and I can never understand anyone who argues for their protections under the GC.

And God save us from those who think we must 'set an example' or abide by a higher power law - what are you folks - crazy?

I think all of this is one reason our soldiers may "snap" - they are taught "KILL THE ENEMY" and we should just let them DO THAT. Worked fine in WWI, WWII. We saw the enemy and we shot him.

Spies wear civilian clothing. Spies are tortured and shot. End of story.

control of own body
Women that make the argument they don't want to lose control of their own bodies are not consistent. Inconsistency is a contradiction which is always wrong. What about control when you had sex? Any control there? How about Obama's plan to control every area of your life? How about the control over how much of your income is taxed? It's your body earning those wages isn't it? Stupid murdering hypocrites.

Mr. Blackwell
your description of the various means of abortion during the various stages of pregnancy was harsh and graphic as it should be. When presented to the most cold hearted individual who considers these alternatives it is hard to fathom their indifference.This article should be a must read for all including our Pres.Obama and his underlings. Maybe they'll take to heart "Thou shalt not kill." If they don't, our creator will attend to them eventually.

Bushman makes the point pt 1
If you're really against abortion and would like to see fewer (if not none) happen, you should know that prohibition is not the tool to reach that goal.

That's a big IF there. IF ending abortion is the real aim.

Just like with the drug war, I sniff no small amount of cynicism in the prohibition. In both cases we're talking about behavior as old as the hills, which will happen at some level. So really the question is do we prefer rampant and unsafe practice, or controlled and potentially lessened?

Truth is, political elites have used the issue as a means to attain control. It's easy to manipulate emotions regarding unborn infants. I'm not being sarcastic or anything else -- I would never under any circumstances allow my unborn child to be aborted, a position which has led to more than one past relationship ending.

But if you were to know and understand the problem truthfully, you would see that prohibition has failed. We need to educate, inform, and facilitate safe sexual hygiene for everyone.

Unfortunately, the church has laid claim to women's bodies and have painted themselves into a medieval corner as to what should or should not be allowed.

This whole discussion, in fact, is the last staggering grasp of the church on the personal lives of its congregation.

The church, and certainly the state, does not deserve this power (again, imho).

pt 2
As for conflating the issue of abortion with torture, I think it's truly distressing. These are two separate issues, and I find it confusing to discuss them simultaneously. I can already hear the jeers, but truthfully we're talking about birth control and women's rights as though it had anything to do with terrorists, and the two simply have no common ground.

Or, perhaps, I might suggest that if the terrorists do "win" (which is not even a remote possibility - for the terrorists a "win" is to become popular at home, not invade over here)... but just for the sake of the statement if the jihadists come and take over, it's a given that women's rights will be the first to go.

So if you were to be honest about your desire to end abortion, perhaps you should reach out to the fellow fundamentalists across the ocean?

That's childish and unfair, I know, but I can't help thinking that way as I read so many of these posts.

Do you even know what torture is?

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/02/09/mohamed-torture-uk-us/

We talk about waterboarding, and what Pelosi knew when, as though that mattered. It doesn't matter.

We have killed, maimed, disappeared, and disfigured so many... What is the matter with us? When are we going to realize that jihad is run on martyrs? We keep giving jihad exactly what it needs to survive.

interrogating terroist
Does anyone in their right mind believe terrorist will stop decapitating their prisoners if we reduce our interrogation methods to beating their ilk with a wet noddle. The terrorist still have all of their fingers and toes, oh yeah, and their heads. Sure they had a few scary minutes but they are alive and if they are released they will be more motivated to kill "the Great Satan". By the way how many of you whose hearts are bleeding for the poor mistreated terrorist support murdering unborn children by dismembering them or punching a sharp instrument into the base of their skulls? Would you please raise your hands?

Reply to Paranoidmystic
You got the first part of your handle right, you do seem to be a Paranoid individual. The Mystic part is in question.

You are not mystic. You are just a typical lame-brained Atheist, who believes that you can finesse others to accept your bliefs with your little disertations.


Ignore Serial Liars--AKA Lib Dems
Ignore Obama's Words!!!
Obama is a Radical and in the Radical Handbook that he follows, Lying is part of the Plan. That is why he presents to be a Serial Liar.

Ignore every word he reads from this teleprompter. His words mean nothing. What does matter is the Actions that he and This Congress are enacting. They are Passing 40 years of Radical Planning all at once, and everyone of his little so-called Press Conferences, Town Hall Meetings, etc. that the MSM is showing us 24-7 and all these debates over what he said or did not say are nothing more than distractions. While everybocy is pontificating what he said or did not say, this distracts people from the Radical Agenda that They are Enacting.

Stop Obama and this Radical Congress Now. I do not care if you are a Leftist or a Rightist, better unite and Stop this Obama Machine while you still have enough freedom and liberty left to do it. If you work for a living, pay rent, pay mortgages, pay for utilities, pay for food, pay for health care, pay property taxes, etc. you better Hope Obama and this Congress Fail, because it is going to be you, whether you are left or right, who will have to pay for it. Of course, deadbeats could care less how high taxes go, because Deadbeats pay no taxes. This is why Obama is Creating Hate and Class Envy. He knows he can depend on deadbeats to be part of his Radical Movement. The so called ACORN volunteers come to mind. ACORN is nothing but the militant arm of the Leftist Obama, who is using our tax money to Fund Their Volunteer Activities by paying them money to be a part of this corrupt organization.


Reply to Libs
Wake Up you Foolish and Childish Liberals. Most of you contribute nothing to society and when our government becomes Totalitarian which is where Socialism Always Leads, deadbeats and non-contributors are the first to go. They first put you in work camps, and if you do not work, you are disposed of. You Libs need to ignore the Liberal Politicians who are promising you a Utopian Existence.

In fact, here is Free Lesson for you and it is so simple, even you Libs can understand it.

"There is no such thing as a Free Lunch, and the Rent Always Comes Due." Obama and the Libs are financing their Spending Frenzy that has already taken us to a 1.8 trillion dollar deficit this year alone, 4 times the Bush Deficit, and they are doing it all by way of Borrowing From the Communist Chinese. Do you think the Communist Chinese will allow your Petty Little Protests and Malingering? Are any of you Libs out there old enough to remember Tiannenman Square. The Red Chinese deal with Protestors with Tanks and Machine Guns. Libs, you better wake up. Comrade Obama is in bed with the Chinese Communists as well as the Terrorists of the Middle East. These Folks are Our Enemies.

Waterboarding VS Castration:
Torture for a Muslim would be Castration or the Threat thereof. These Muslims actually believe that women have no rights, and in fact, they treat women as sub-human in this world. In their vision of Heaven, each devout Muslim Man, has a herd of Pastel Virgins to play around with. They have this belief based on the Teachings of their Founder, Mohammed, who was known to have hundreds of wives, Many of Which Were Little Children Girls as young as age 7. Their Spiritual Founder and Leader was a Child Molester.

Therefore, if you want to torture a Muslim Terrorist, Line Them Up, Castrate two or three of them, and the Rest will Sing Like Little Birds, as they would imagine that they Could Not Enjoy their Heaven if they were not equipped to Molest Little 7 or 8 year old virgins, like their Founder did in This World.

Many of the Muslim Sheiks, Princes and others, to this day, still practice Mohammed's Teachings, and many of the Little Girls Faces are on Milk Cartons all over the United States and other countries.

And, some of these terrorists are in the United States kidnapping little girls and boys right now as we speak. Wake up folks, these Muslim Terrorists have no soul and they are only loyal to their Masters. Waterboarding?? I think Not. Castrating them, yes. How else could you terrorize a terrorist who is willing to put on a bomb vest and blow himself up? They probably laugh at you idiots in this country who think Waterboarding is some form of torture. It is my hope that the CIA and military will continue to do whatever is necessary to get the truth out of these sub-human child molestors.

Excellent column
Well said. Looking for an attempt at intelligent liberal perspective, but that is impossible, not to mention an oxymoron.

truth is truth.

Cognitive Dissonance Liberals
They say one thing and mean another.
Pro-Choice = The right to terminate your pregnancy in the most brutal way and make the taxpayer pay for it.
Anti-Torture = When President Bush allowed for interrogation that was as forcefull as pouring water down a suspect's nose, that was brutal. When Clinton sent suspects to countries overseas that had no restrictions on torture, that was cool. http://theclosetconservative.com

Ken
"...Our new president abhors torture, unless it is the torture of the unborn..."\

Oh no you don't! You cause all these abortions. Nations like western Europe have far less pregnancies and abortions than the US. I hope you feel good about what you are doing to kill potential American citizens.

ROFLMAO
Fuzzy A+
" Sometimes I can't wait
until the muslims take out the liberals. The beauty of it is that after the liberals are hiding back in the holes they should never have slithered out of, we will be left with a strong nation that will then stand up to the muslims.

Liberals - remember not to torture the muslim children that come down your hole wearing bombs on their vest. Just be quiet & explode with dignity. Perhaps while shouting "America sucks" at the top of your lungs.

Too bad we can't have a film reel of bloopers showing you screwing it up. How many of you will only get to say "Oh crap!" & never get the "America sucks" part out in time. "
ROFLMAO !

RoddRepublican
Like I've said plenty here, the answer is simply THEY ARE INSANE.
Wether you ascribe it to the communist plot that spent 85% of their funds on "espionage" to pull a psychosocial mind mash on our popualce that makes mkultra look like a single piece of a tinkertoy, or the drugs from the 60's, or their hate the man I'm all love movement, who knows, and at this point, who but those desiring to reverse the gigantic problem, cares.
They are INSANE, and the defecting KGB agents tell us they bought and placed those in media, education, Hollywood, commmunity leaders, etc, and it TOOK OFF, and they had better results than their wildest dreams, and it began "feeding upon itself". DEMORALIZATION.
---
" The thing with you liberals that I don't understand is if this were a dog or a cat that had puppies or kittens you would be up in arms if we killed them or harmed them in anyway. "
---
It is inexplicable they are insane.

Please Note:

Liberals had no objection to waterboarding when it was done by the Clinton Administration.

THIS WILL NOT STAND--WE WILL BREAK THEM
These Cretins will not continue to govern the American People.

They will be paid the very wages of thier sins against our Basic Principles and against the lives of Unborn Citizens.

The end is already near--Pelosi is just an appetizer to the Main Meal: and that is the end of Democrat Perversions of Truth, Justice and the American Way.

We Will Break Them.

MARCH ON WASHINGTON THIS SUMMER AND SHOW THOSE CRETINS THAT AMERICA IS STILL THE LAND OF THE FREE AND THE HOME OF THE BRAVE.

WE PROTECT HUMANS MORE THAN ANY NATION IN HISTORY AND THEY CANNOT HIDE THAT FACT.

ROWDY BOOTS

Maybe they will
To the person who said that "sometimes I can't wait till muslims take out the liberals." I AGREE. TO all the liberals who do not wish to torture to save thousands of lives. I hope that someday (and yes I wish that to all of you), you will experience what it's like when you're family gets taken away from you by terrorists. I hope that that when there is ever a terrorist attack, someone you love very much will be a victim. THEN the person responsible for it gets caught (whether that person is involved directly/indirectly) and at some point you will have to sit accross from this person during a trial or intorregation. Tell me how you will feel about torture then. If you're interested of what I would do, watch the movie "THE PUNISHER" by John Travolta. It will make GW's administration a living Saint! If it's my family or MY COUNTRY on the line, You bet your a** I will do everything I can to save it even if that means taking a life. Unless of course you just happen to tell me you're a liberal then I'll probably leave you to rot!

Wah Wah Wah
You may as well say us and them. In the psycho world of the 200 posters, anyone who does not agree with you is a liberal. There is open talk of trying to overturn and put aside, by whatever means necessary, the results of the last election. A single election with a greater number of votes difference than BOTH previous elections combined. An election you have used so you can sit on the sidelines and say I told you so, 3 years from now.
So march on Washington, but do it legally, because 70 % of Americans have to do the work of 100%. and we are tired of your BS. My 100% doesn’t include the losers or the always have their hands out. Because that is the way they are. Anyone that turns from worker into sitter because of the party, whichever it is, is a flaming scumb*g. Whatever party or leanings we have are secondary to the fact we are Americans. The election is over but there will be another one in 3 years. Won’t you help for 2 of them? Besides, whose side do you think the military will be on when you have your little rebellion? Thank God they are real Americans who will use the elected government’s views on the Constitution, who will honor their oaths to defend the US from it’s enemies, external and internal, and who will make sure that your supposed “battles” will never be anyplace but the voting booth. The military may or may not like our elected officials, but they will obey them. It’s one of their greatest strengths.

No respect for Obama
Mr. Obama and his comrades opened this issue in order to do what they do best: make political gain. That he continues to trash his predecessor to make himself look good (and provide distaracting cover for his own foibles) is sickening. No other president has done that.
A small man indeed.

Of course he will not release photos. He's trying to back away from this (even tho he created it) because there was nothing illegal, because the photos probably don't amount to much that would shock anyone, and because some of said comrades would have to be on any hot seat they create.

As far as "transparency" goes, to Mr. Obama, that seems to mean throwing out suggestive allegations about other people, and letting them be tried in the media.

At some point, he is going to have to stand on his own and stop making his entire agenda about trashing Mr. Bush.

Abortion; another form of torture
History records primitive barbarians killing human beings as sacrifices to false gods. Now highly educated barbarians are killing human beings not as sacrificial offerings to false gods they had been taught to believe in but because they were not wanted, undesirables; being unborn is beside the point, they are human beings. Pro-abortionist have seared their conscience to the point that they will not accept the obvious but they cannot argue the fact that they are essentially killing a baby by removing tissue or the fetus as they like to perceive it. What will it take to shame them into admitting it is a human being they are killing. Maybe they should assist in an abortion, hand the doctor the sharp instrument that he will thrust into the base of the baby's skull and watch its body spasm or take detached arms, legs and heads and drop them into a garbage can or if it is “just a blob of tissue” for the sake of curiosity examine it under a microscope.
The Lord giveth and now man taketh away – can you be thankful for that??? Pro-abortionist have usurped the sovereignty of the almighty God; something that should be of concern to “Christian” pro-abortionist.

Abortion - what goes around comes around
Alas, the pro-abortion spin masters keep coming up with reasons for pregnancies beyond the woman's control therefore justifying abortion like the cycle or the protection failed or the sperm count was at fault. On the other hand maybe the woman caved and had consensual sex but she's not to blame because like Flip Wilson; “the Devil made me do it”.
The more the spin masters keep pumping out these lame excuses the more promiscuous sex, the more unwanted pregnancies and the more abortions; That is a proven fact. The right thing to do is encourage a woman to give birth to the baby. There are relatives, friends and agencies to help them. That message should be loud, clear and long. It is a disservice to God, the person, the baby and humanity to encourage the taking of an innocent life. Judges may have legalized it but it is still murder in the minds of now the majority of the people and more importantly, God's
A word of solemn warning; the Muslims are becoming the majority in many countries and increasing in this one bringing the day closer to the time they will be in control. Aborting babies that will be other than Muslims will hastens the reality of that day – THEY DON'T ABORT!!
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