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Wednesday, July 08, 2009
Jonah Goldberg :: Townhall.com Columnist
Spread Freedom? Not So Much
by Jonah Goldberg
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The Obama Doctrine is finally coming into focus.

It's been hard to glean its form because for so long it seemed the president's most obvious guiding principle was "not Bush," particularly when it came to the Iraq war. Indeed, his anti-Bush stance has led him to stubbornly refuse to say the war has been won or to admit that he was wrong to oppose the surge. In the past, this unthinking reflex has caused Obama to take some truly repugnant positions. In July of 2007, Obama said that he would order U.S. forces out of Iraq as quickly as possible, even if he knew it would lead to an Iraqi genocide. This makes Obama the first president in modern memory to have suggested that causing a genocide would be in America's national interest.

Obama himself insists that he's guided by nothing other than a cool-headed pragmatism. Indeed, Obama has a grating habit of describing any position not his own as "ideological," as if his is the only sober, practical understanding of the problems we face. Just days before he was inaugurated, he gave a speech in Baltimore in which he proclaimed, "What is required is a new declaration of independence, not just in our nation, but in our own lives -- from ideology and small thinking, prejudice and bigotry -- an appeal not to our easy instincts but to our better angels."

So ideologues -- i.e. millions of Americans who disagree with his policies on principle -- belong in a list along with bigots and dim bulbs. At home, this attitude has allowed him to dismiss opponents of socialized medicine and the government takeover of various industries as "ideologues," and critics of trillions in debt-fueled spending as small-minded cranks.

Joshua Muravchik, a scholar at Johns Hopkins University and a leading advocate of democracy promotion around the globe, demonstrates in the current issue of Commentary magazine that Obama has a similar attitude toward those who say America should advance the cause of liberty and democracy worldwide. Again and again, the administration has made it clear that spreading freedom is so much ideological foolishness. Before the inauguration, he told The Washington Post that he was concerned with "actually delivering a better life for people on the ground and less obsessed with form, more concerned with substance." There's merit to this view in principle, though Obama seems to be thinking about "economic justice" more than a free society. But in practice, when American presidents say they don't care about democracy, tyrants rejoice.

In April, at a news conference following a meeting of the Organization of American States, Obama proclaimed, "What we showed here is that we can make progress when we're willing to break free from some of the stale debates and old ideologies that have dominated and distorted the debate in this hemisphere for far too long." Hillary Clinton was more pithy: "Let's put ideology aside," the secretary of state said. "That is so yesterday." It's worth recalling that those old ideological debates often involved America championing democracy against those who pushed for socialism. One wonders which ideological stance Obama thinks is stale.

Obama supporter and Washington Post columnist E.J. Dionne writes that the Obama Doctrine involves restoring America's alliances and working with the international community so we can all do great things together. That's why Obama and Hillary Clinton have been so eager to apologize for America around the globe. One problem with such an approach is that it -- so far at least -- buys us nothing save the appearance of weakness. Another problem is that quite often, the international community is wrong.

Hence, according to the Obama administration, it's foolishly ideological to resist the United Nation's accommodation of tyrants and fanatics, while it is "pragmatic" to placate human rights abusers. It is ideological to show disdain for Venezuela's would-be dictator Hugo Chavez; it is "pragmatic" to stamp as "democratic" his effort to overthrow term limits. It is ideological to sustain sanctions against Burma and Sudan; it's pragmatic to revisit them, even if it disheartens human rights activists across the ideological spectrum. American exceptionalism is ideological, while seeing America as just another nation is realistic.

The past four weeks show how ideological Obama's un-ideological view really is. In response to the revolutionary protests in Iran, Obama initially favored stability and preserving the fantasy of negotiations with the Iranian clerical junta. Not "meddling" was his top priority. Over time, the rhetoric improved, but the policy remained just as cynical.

Then, events in Honduras revealed that Obama really has no problem with meddling when a left-wing agenda is advanced. Manuel Zelaya, the president of Honduras and a Hugo Chavez wannabe, illegally defied the Honduran Congress, the Supreme Court and the Constitution in an attempt to repeal term limits (which help sustain democracy in Central America by preventing presidents-for-life). The Supreme Court ordered the military to remove Zelaya from office and expel him from the country. A member of Zelaya's own party replaced him, and elections were announced. But suddenly, Obama -- taking much the same position as Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez -- thought America should join the coalition of the meddlers demanding Zelaya's return to power. In Iran, Obama was terrified to do anything that might lead to a coup to bring about democracy. In Honduras, Obama was chagrined to let stand a coup that preserved democracy.

It sure seems like Obama has an ideological problem with democracy.

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About The Author
Jonah Goldberg is editor-at-large of National Review Online.
 
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About Iraq troop withdrawl
I read a somewhat disturbing piece today that talks, in part, about what Obama's plans are for some of the troops he is bringing home from Iraq are.

http://silverbearcafe.com/private/04.09/pandemonium.html

It's worth the read and discloses some of Obama's plans for America.




If obama is not a full-fledged

communist, he is incredibly foolish and stupid.

meaning
Even closer to home lies the current sitaution in Honduras. Not only does the administration discount the liberty of Iraq (or Iran for that matter) but takes the impending dictator's side in Honduras. Here is a man who attempted to install himself for life, was outsed by his Supreme Court and laws with the army acting under the government orders and our President prefers him. Does this hold meaning for tyrants around the world? Certainly this administration is pandering to them all. The world travels of the President have mostly been visits to Dictators and in fact anti-American leaders. Should Americans beware of such signs?

AuHunter
http://silverbearcafe.com/private/04.09/pandemonium.html

Excellent, DRAMA QUEENS of the World, Unite!

President Obama's vision
has nothing to do with Democracy, either for or against. His agenda is big government. If it is right wing facism as in Iran, or left wing socialism as in Venezuela, it is ok with him.
It appears that his preference is Euro-style Socialism, as it gives the government cover.

Europe is a democratic continent, so therefore the big government socialism/utopianism suits his style. Such a government can claim that it rules according to the will of the people.

He, and the die hard left wing in America, hate this nation's independence. They despise the "cowboy ethic" that they attribute to Reagan and Bush, they hate the fierce independent streak that Americans possess in abundance and that has given this temporal world a more secure existence. They want America brought into a New World Order/One World Government.

This is Obama's vision: only big government can deliver a better life for people, not the independent struggle for life, the self reliance that builds strength and character.

We shall soon see whether or not the majority of Americans actually want this "change". If the Dems maintain their stranglehold on government in 2010, we will have to conclude that the people have bought into this lie. Then, we will have a real problem on our hands.

Where do those who love freedom go? America was and is the last best hope for mankind. I imagine that those who love that freedom will be forced to fight for it. Get ready!

The Anti-Reagan
Obama really is the polar opposite of Ronald Reagan. Obama is indifferent to the billions of people yearning for freedom.

Tragic.

Anti-ideology - synonymous with
* inconsistency
* 'nuance' - a euphemism for inconsistency

The Obama Doctrine
Not Bush ---
just bush-league.


Mr. Goldberg
The "one" has always thinking he was smarter, and better then everyone else. This man is a smiley fase tyrant. 2010 is coming, we need to vote, and suport anyone opposed to the "one", or Honduras could happen here. Look to history, Hint WW1 and Willsons polices.
Kirk

Sorry
Should read "smiley face"
Kirk

Kirk
"Hint WW1 and Wilsons polices"

Liberation and freedom for the world, that's George Bush, the neo-cons and the Republican party, my friend.

zap
And your point?
Kirk

The Worst Kind of Lynch Mob

“The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows that 33% of the nation's voters now Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Thirty-six percent (36%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of –3. Those figures reflect the highest level of strong disapproval measured to date and the lowest level recorded for the overall Approval Index.

Overall, 52% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President's performance so far. That, too, is a new low for the President. Forty-seen percent (47%) now disapprove.”

As "The Michael Jackson Diversion" fades out with his finally being laid to rest, the media will eventually have to move on to the next great diversionary tactic to avoid the fate that awaits them and that is increasingly nipping at their heals.

The disaster waiting in the wings is one resulting from their collusion in the fairy tale elevation of another icon whose rise to fame and glory is destined to result in an equally tragic and ignominious fall from grace: the disastrous and damaging presidency of Barack Hussein Obama; a man who, much in the manner of Michael Jackson, is an empty shell...a caricature...and as President, a man who is equally bereft of any sense of reality.

The worst and most dangerous kind of lynch mob is the one made up of those whose adulation and idolatry of an individual, turns to hatred and hurt feelings at being taken in by him before having their dreams and fantasies dashed upon finding out the truth that he is neither their hero nor is he honorable in his having deceived them.

The media has a stake in creating diversions...they will be seen as equally corrupt for having participated in that deception.

And the mob of liberals, once they decide to take up their pitchforks and torches, will likely be coming for them too.


So Happy to See...
I am so happy to see ideology in retreat. It as led to so many mistakes in foreign policy and is, in so many ways, just like religion.

Not everyone will like Obama's approach but he is a realist. Searching for what will work as opposed to what fits the ideology.

OncealwaysaMarine -- I Half Agree
"The worst and most dangerous kind of lynch mob is the one made up of those whose adulation and idolatry of an individual, turns to hatred and hurt feelings at being taken in by him before having their dreams and fantasies dashed upon finding out the truth that he is neither their hero nor is he honorable in his having deceived them."

My unscientific assessment of the Obama voter is not typically someone "whose adulation and idolatry" is capable of turning to hatred. The herd of brainless cattle I found myself standing among last Nov. 4 stuck me as being more in the nature of someone who will simply want to turn the channel if they don't like what they are watching.

"The media has a stake in creating diversions...they will be seen as equally corrupt for having participated in that deception."

You're dead right on this one. And it can't happen soon enough.

Even the bovine-type Obama voters who showed up last election at the prompting of our national media will not do so again in anywhere near the same numbers. Too much effort. Too little interest in the process to compete with the next episode of Judge Judy.


Obama
Just another petty big spending tyrant with a god complex. Hold on to your wallets cause it is going to be a bumpy ride.

David
"Hold on to your wallets cause it is going to be a bumpy ride."

We are going to have to pay for our commitment to Iraq and Afghanistan sometime, don't we?

And the extra entitlement spending program the Republicans passed in 2003.

Zap

David
"Hold on to your wallets cause it is going to be a bumpy ride."

We are going to have to pay for our commitment to Iraq and Afghanistan sometime, don't we?

And the extra entitlement spending program the Republicans passed in 2003.
_________________________________________________
Zap I know that Reps can't do it as well as Dems cause our little dab of spending is pocket change compared to the unfunded mandates of SS, Medicare and Medicaid, all BTW Democrat BS. That Bill BTW is approaching 100 Trillion!!!!!!!!

Eddie Willers
"the herd of brainless cattle."

Quite frankly, I consider the Tea Party attendees the brainless cattle.

In 2001, Alan Greenspan said the Fed and the CBO had come to the conclusion there were 'budget surpluses as far as the eye could see.'

George Bush and the Republican party inextractably changed America's fiscal course.

They ramped up pork barrel spending, started ethanol mandates, started a war in Afghanistan, started a war in Iraq, added another layer of entitlement spending, doubled the size of the Department of Education and increased the domestic side of government to a bigger degree than Bubba Clinton.

All this paid for with tax cuts.

They have gotten Americans addicted to a larger government than the American people are willing to pay for. The fiscal trajectory was quite different eight years ago.

Where were the Tea Party's from 2001-2007?




Folks
don't argue with zap, as he is much to smart and witty for us.
Kirk

Paying up
We are going to have to pay for our commitment to Iraq and Afghanistan sometime, don't we?

And the extra entitlement spending program the Republicans passed in 2003.

Once again, the "hate Bush" sentiments come out. I cannot exonerate either side of the aisle for their role in digging this grave, but when Obama signs into law in the first 60 days commitments for twice as much money as the Iraq War cost us in 6 years (the porkulus and the earmark-ibus total around $1.2 trillion) your argument of "at least he's not Bush" doesn't help make you or him look intelligent.

Kirk
Zap is a smart fellow but he is completely a partisan, he has a few pat answers and does not deviate much from them, certainly he is unwilling to concede the damage done fiscally by both parties.

All of this deficit spending is largely un-constitutional and completely ill advised to foster a vibrant economy.

Kirk
"don't argue with zap, as he is much to smart and witty for us."

Be afraid, be very afraid.

Daved in TX
I agree. The rep. party is not all conservitive. Here in MN I voted for Norm Colmen, a good man, but not a strict conservitive. But soooo much beter then the @#$%^&*(!@#$$ we did vote in that I can't speak of it. Pres. Bush was no Reagan, was sooo much beter then the other guys, what were we to do. I don't buy the I wont vote for anyone idea, as this is how we got the "one".
Kirk

Joshua
"We are going to have to pay for our commitment to Iraq and Afghanistan sometime, don't we? And the extra entitlement spending program the Republicans passed in 2003.

Once again, the "hate Bush" sentiments come out."

How, is pointing out the obvious, that if you spend, at sometime in the future, you need to pay for it, hate?

Kirk

Location: MN
Reply # 20
Date: Jul 8, 2009 - 5:05 PM EST Folks
don't argue with zap, as he is much to smart and witty for us.
Kirk
______________________________________________

"An hypocrite with his mouth destroyeth his neighbor: but through knowledge shall the just be delivered"--Proverbs 11:9

Zap
Most conservatives, including myself believe that Bush spent way too much....this however does not mean that Obama now has a license to do what Bush did x 4.

For liberals that believe this (that because of Bush it's now OK for Obama to do whatever he wants regarding spending), the hypocrisy is stunning.

Kirk
Amen, GWB was certainly no conservative!

I believe we are going to see a groundswell of conservatism, indeed the polls already show that self identifying conservatives outnumber liberals just 8 months after the election. The coming catastrophic economy that is coming due in large part to all of this stimulus and TARP spending will continue to drive down Obamas numbers. This country is different than any in the world and I think we will come out from under the liberal fugue.

Zap
How, is pointing out the obvious, that if you spend, at sometime in the future, you need to pay for it, hate?
__________________________________________________

Exactly, so how bout those unfunded liabilities of SS, Medicare and Medicaid, those bills are coming due.

Joshua
"Obama signs into law in the first 60 days commitments for twice as much money as the Iraq War cost us in 6 years (the porkulus and the earmark-ibus total around $1.2 trillion)"

Where do these numbers come from?

Here's how I see it.

Let's compare spending between President Obama and George Bush.

Please feel free to let me now of any omissions!

Bush in his last year of spending.
Obama in his first year of spending.

All numbers in Billions of dollars.

------------Bush------Obambi----
Budget---3100------3500
Stimulus---------------499
Tarp--------700
AIG---------120

David
"Exactly, so how bout those unfunded liabilities of SS, Medicare."

As of this moment, is not Social Security and Medicare overly funded? I mean are they not running surpluses?

What is paying for the Iraq War now?

Zap
We wont know until October, but probably you will have to add close to a trillion dollars to the numbers you posted as a result of the shortfall of revenue due to the continued job losses and bad economy. Stands at 260 billion through 2nd quarter but rising rapidly.

Ken
"Obama now has a license to do what Bush did x 4."

Can you back this drama up?

Zap

David
"Exactly, so how bout those unfunded liabilities of SS, Medicare."

As of this moment, is not Social Security and Medicare overly funded? I mean are they not running surpluses?

What is paying for the Iraq War now?
___________________________________________________

Yes, although their board of Govenors statement says they will be out of money before 2016 and then there is the the Baby Boomers retiring in mass in next 2 years.

But for you its okay to point out the very small amount of money by comparison (3 trillion to 100 trillion) and ignore the coming tsunami of debt coming due. You are dishonest!

Zap
I would rather pay for spreading democracy then dumping money down the toilet like Obama has. Bush stopped Saddam from killing thousands of innocents in terrible ways. Obama voted against that. So tell me again who has the moral authority to tell us how to spend money?

To all of those...
who are clamoring for a revolution, all you are going to continue to do is clamor, you aren't going to do anything. If anything, you are just going to keep posting on websites like this.

For those of you who actually go out and seek change, good for you. I'm happy for you.

But for others (and by that, I mean most of you), you aren't going to do anything. Not because you cannot, but because you do not have the will to do what is necessary.

What? Are you just going to sit back and b!7ch until someone does something just so you will shut up?

Shawn
"Bush stopped Saddam from killing thousands of innocents in terrible ways."

Then have the guts to pass a higher gas tax to pay for our seven year $10 billion a month military operation. Someday our grandchildren will have to pay for it because we can not be bothered to.

When the Democrats add a government program they come up with a funding mechanism. (more taxes)

When the Republicans added Medicare Prescription, Part D, it was, like the Iraq war, simply dumped onto the national credit card.

Republicans are all about handing out the cake and ice cream and never about dishing out the medicine.

Zap
BTW SS is off Budget, the funds that come in are put in the SS trust fund, they are then borrowed by Congress and used in the general fund. SS is currently running a surplus but everyone knows that with the BB retirements that will change. There is nothing in the trust fund but IOU's. How are we going to pay those IOU's Zap? The national Credit Card I guess. So you see paying for those wars and Medicare drugs is chicken feed, comparatively at least. Oh yea Democrats came up with those ponzi schemes, even told us that they would be safe and would save money. Boy did they holler when GWB tried to fix the system. Just like Barney told us there was no crisis at Fannie and Freddie. See a pattern?

David
"Yes, although their board of Govenors statement says they will be out of money before 2016 and then there is the the Baby Boomers retiring in mass in next 2 years."

Yes, some bad medicine will have to be dished out to the American people. The Republicans had that chance eight years ago. Instead of cranking up pork barrel from 3,000 to 14,000 projects a year, they could have sent that number to zero.

They could have educated the American elderly and asked them to accept a 'freeze' in social security payments' In fact, they added Medicare Prescription, Part D.

To say that we face future financial Armageddon while spending like drunken sailors.....now that's dishonest.

Zap
I understand why you would ignore me, you have no answers. So I will ask you a question.

How high would you have to raise taxes in order to pay for all of our debt, all of the forecast deficits and the unfunded liabilities. I am curious if you know that. I don't but I bet that there is not enough wealth in the USA to do it.

Zap Looking for Evidence
Post this to your browser:

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-d eficit-in-pictures/

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Zap
They could have educated the American elderly and asked them to accept a 'freeze' in social security payments' In fact, they added Medicare Prescription, Part D.
_______________________________________________

Laughable really,Democrats and AARP so demagogue this when he tried to fix the system by emulating systems in South America that produced great retirement wealth he was laughed off of the stage. So we are left with this broke system that will not be able to pay its obligations to the people it took the money from with a promise that it would be there when they retired.

A Democrat program with Democrat promises, Democrat obstruction (real party of no) when a Rep tried to fix their sick golden cow.

David
"How high would you have to raise taxes in order to pay for all of our debt, all of the forecast deficits and the unfunded liabilities."

The bigger part will be 'asking' Americans to accept smaller social security checks and to do with less from government. The Republicans failed miserably at this since they added a whole lot of more government ON TOP of all the other government that was already there. And they advertised themselves as the party of small government? How disingenuous! How dishonest

Republicans rightly mocked LBJ and social engineering here at home. And now, we are in the beginning of a 100 year social engineering project in Iraq with a weird culture and Islam as a religion. Whenever the Iraqis get around to standing up, then we can finally stand down. I'm not holding my breath.


"to pay for all of our debt", you mean all the debt extrapolated out to 500 years from now?

Zap
To say that we face future financial Armageddon while spending like drunken sailors.....now that's dishonest.
__________________________________________________

Who is spending like a drunk sailor Zap? Could it be Obama? It was certainly Bush in his terms but he is a piker by comparison to Obama. They are both bad, say it with me Zap deficits bad, cutting spending good.

I have a solution.
So, I'm just going to throw it out there:

How about we just get rid of money all together? Say screw it, and just get rid of it.

Zap
you could not be more fundamentaly wrong. did i slip into a wormhole where democrats suddenly are the ones fiscally responsible? Your magic eight ball says there is not a fat chance in hell. Democrats think they can tax and spend till there is no tomorrow then ten years down the road it is the repubs turn to clean up the mess. Umm, does Carter ring a bell, or did you have your head stuck somewhere during that time. You can go eat ice cream if you want. I live in the real world. By the way, I would still rather pay to oust Saddam then anything Mr. Obama has done since he came into office. What's the matter can't address the fact that Bush stopped a genocide and Obama wanted to do nothing. Chicken. Step up to the plate dude, you're still bunting.

David
"Laughable really,Democrats and AARP so demagogue this when he tried to fix the system by emulating systems in South America"

Bush's plan would have exacerbated the problem. It's more 'cake and ice cream' without the medicine.

Can you or someone explain to me how allowing some young people to opt-out of social security into their own private plan helps relieve the coming entitlement crisis?

Allowing young people to opt-out means that there is less money to pay people who are retired or are nearing retirement. This opt-out change doesn't help to relieve the social security spending burden until the young people who have paid into it, retire, like 40 years from now.

In the next 40 years, there is less money in the pay-out pool and considering tax increases are out the question, a 'realistic' way to put this opt-out proposal to the voters would be something like this;

1.) If we do nothing to fix social security, retirees will have a 20% cut in benefits.

2.) And if we allow some people to opt-out of social security then retirees will have a 30% cut in benefits for the next 40 years.

The baby-boomers are retiring now, and will be dead before young people with private social security aren't a burden on the government.


Zap
As I suspected you have no answers, My question was well written but I will expand. How high will taxes have to be in order to pay for the Debt (the money we owe now approx 10.5 trillion) the forecast deficits ( the debt added by year too the debt up to 2019 approx 9.7 trillion) and the unfunded liabilities ( debt we owe to individuals as a promise made in SS, Medicare and Medicaid approx 99 trilliion). My calculator just wont figure that high, I suspect you would have to confiscate all wealth.

You have to also figure that the economy will shrivel under that confiscatory tax. So very little tax revenue to count on from growth.Tax revenues usually go up each year from 4 to 6 %

Zap
Bush's plan would have exacerbated the problem. It's more 'cake and ice cream' without the medicine.
________________________________________________
Really how in the world could it have been worse than it is now? Stupid really

Shawn
"Bush stopped a genocide."

The genocide happened under Reagan (gassing the Kurds) and Bush I (mass murder of Kurds and Shias after telling them to rise up against Saddam)

Shawn
"Democrats think they can tax and spend till there is no tomorrow"

Here's what I do not get. Government was much smaller when FDR, Truman, JFK, LBJ, Carter and Bubba were US Presidents, than after George W. (bank bailout) Bush. Where were the Tea Parties?

The size of government expanded faster and even more under Bush and the Republicans than under Bubba Clinton. Once again, where were the Tea Parties?

Zap
Can you or someone explain to me how allowing some young people to opt-out of social security into their own private plan helps relieve the coming entitlement crisis?

Allowing young people to opt-out means that there is less money to pay people who are retired or are nearing retirement. This opt-out change doesn't help to relieve the social security spending burden until the young people who have paid into it, retire, like 40 years from now.
_______________________________________________

That was not the plan, they could opt to take a small portion 3% to invest in the stock market or other approved investments. It was modeled after a system in Brazil I think, were they had bus drivers retiring with a million dollars in their retirement account.
So there would be more money to fix the system.

Zap
Does it matter? W. Bush is the only one with the stones to do anything. Your president voted No. Or was it present? Kind of like how you're responding to my posts..."present".

David
"Bush's plan would have exacerbated the problem. It's more 'cake and ice cream' without the medicine. --- Really how in the world could it have been worse than it is now? Stupid really."

There will be a shortfall in what 5-10 years in social security?

If there is less money being paid into the system (because young people are putting it into their own account) then there is a bigger shortfall.

Even more taxes, even less benefits until the young people retire and are not a burden to the government.

You have drunk the Republican Kool-Aid that there is an easy answer, there is not.

David
"Really how in the world could it have been worse than it is now?"

We have surpluses now.

Zap
Read a history book. FDR expanded government enormously. New Deal ring a bell? So are you saying you are against making government bigger? I sure am. Wait around, Obama will make Bush look like nothing in government expansion.

Shawn
"Does it matter? W. Bush is the only one with the stones to do anything."

Yeah...I know...and so long as you get to cling to your precious Bush tax cut you do not care how much money it costs to bring freedom and democracy over there.

Zap
Here what I don't understand, there has not been a balanced budget since 1952, they grow every year regardless of the party in charge. So why would you find Dems less culpable, they all say they don't want deficits but we have deficits. They are all bums, maybe your bums smell better to you, I don't know but to never find fault with your over spenders is dishonest.
I am a equal opportunity hater of POLS. They are spending our GG grand childrens money. Could you run your business for 57 years without making a profit and keep telling the investors you are working harder than ever?

Shawn
"Read a history book. FDR expanded government enormously. New Deal ring a bell?"

And George W. Bush and the Republican-controlled Congress added so much on top of all that government. And Republican mouth-pieces like to tell the masses they are for small government? What a joke!

Zap
That's right I don't. Because I believe that each person should have a chance at freedom and to escape persecution and genocide. Apparently that's not enough for you. Do you believe in anything?

Zap
Is there a point to any of your posts? Or do you just have talking points?

David
"So why would you find Dems less culpable, they all say they don't want deficits but we have deficits."

I read Alan Greenspan's autobiography 'Age of Turbulence' and in 2001 he thought there were 'surplus's as far as the eye could see.'

Now, I know 'Republicans' hate him now because he doesn't tow the Republican line. But he was Chairman of the Federal Reserve for 20 years and was appointed by Ronald Reagan. I think he knows something about economics.

The economy is so sick now that it's like giving chemo to a cancer patient. Generally speaking, if the economy is good then the government should be able to balance its budget (or close to) when times are tough that is a time for government deficits.

Shawn
"Do you believe in anything?"

I believe in shared sacrifice and paying my bills.

You send young men into harm's way, but on the American home front, you think a shared sacrifice is 'to go shopping.'

No thanks.

Shawn
"Because I believe that each person should have a chance at freedom and to escape persecution and genocide."

Did you believe in the Dayton Accords? Were you for Bubba launching an air assault on Serbia to force them to stop genocide?

Zap
You think that shared sacrifice is paying higher taxes so others can go in harms way. I think shared sacrifice is taking care of those soldiers when they come back and supporting them while they are there. I come from a military family. You have no idea what shared sacrifice is. Go tax yourself silly for all I care. Truth is you don't believe in anything. You don't believe there are moral absolutes, that's why you refused to say anything about Obama voting no to save thousands of butchered Iraqi's from Saddam's grasp. How does that stack up to "paying your bills". Iraqi's would kill to just have bills to worry about.

Zap
I'm all for stopping Genocide. As far as Serbia is concerned Clinton was throwing acorns at a knife fight, not to mention the welcome distraction from his problems on the home front. Monica barely had her kneepads off when the missiles hit the air.

Shawn
"Umm, does Carter ring a.."

Yes, he does. He inherited an economic mess from Nixon and Ford. Nixon removed the USA from the gold standard and saw a huge ramp-up in the money supply.

I remember Nixon implemented socialistic wage and price controls in an attempt to control inflation.

I remember Gerald Ford whipped out a WIN 'Whip Inflation Now' button on a national TV appearance.

Jimmy Carter appointed Paul Volcker to be Chairman of the Federal Reserve System who used a tight monetary policy to wring out inflation.

Shawn
"As far as Serbia is concerned Clinton was throwing acorns at a knife fight,"

The genocide stopped and there is peace there now, isn't there. I traveled through Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia (Mostar and Sarajevo) and Serbia a few years ago. I know.

Zap
There is always someone else to blame isn't there. This line sounds oddly familiar,"he inherited". That's because it comes out of Obama's mouth every time he talks. Everyone inherits something (Bush inherited an early recession from Clinton just before he took office but you didn't hear him complain), it's what you do with it. Carter was pitiful, and history has rightly judged him harshly for it. Reagan cleaned up Carter's mess. Also, it wasn't until Greenspan came in that things started to look up. Appointed by none other than Ronald Reagan.

Shawn
"You think that shared sacrifice is paying higher taxes so others can go in harms way."

America's WWII generation was the Greatest generation, you are telling me that today's generation is the Least.

Zap
If that's what you want to believe I don't really care. It's not even close to what I'm saying. If this generation is the least then it's because it's riddled with ultra liberal socialists and Republican in name only enablers. I don't know where you stand and again I don't really care. However I will say that you should never count a generation out. There is always hope. For example, true the WWII generation was called the greatest generation, but they were also made up of a great number of people from post WWI, also known as the "lost generation". It was these individuals who rallied to America's defense in WWII. I still believe in American exceptionalism and I'm devastated to see our President degrade that every time he steps onto foreign soil and apologizes. I still believe in this generation and that hope will never die unless the people are corrupted by big government spending like Obama preaches and apologetic groveling to dictatorships, human rights abusers, and evildoers. I stand with my many brothers to say just wait till 2012. We are comin back baby! I'm out.

David
"when a Rep tried to fix their sick golden cow."

Bush was saying 'young people can opt out of social security and have their own private account.'

The other half of his sales pitch was to say 'and anyone retired or nearing retirement will not miss one penny that is owed them.' and 'no one will see their taxes go up either.'

John Sununu parroted this in his Senate debates with Jean Sheehan last year and is the Republican party line.

Allowing young people to opt out means there is less money to pay the people retired. Young people with private accounts will not be retiring for 40 years. In that time the problem is worse.

Got to go.

Zap
Once again, worse than what?

Obama's Level Playing Field.
We must have a level playing field if we are to be like every other country. We can't be richer than they are.

Obama evidently does not like wealth unless it's his. He will take everything he can from us and spread it around. Not only to the rest of the country,but to the rest of the world,also.

Democracy
Should it be the US goal to spread democracy throughout the world? And what costs?

Democracy if not for the military stepping in would have brought the FIS to power in Algeria, a radical Islamic party. Hamas won in Gaza, democracy in Iran is a fight between one anti-American, anti-Israeli hardliner and another, democracy in Egypt, Saudi Arabia and much of the Arab would would bring in anti-American, Islamic partys that support Al Qaeda. A democratic China would be more hardline on Tibet and Taiwan than the CCP is, it would be more nationalistic and more anti-American.

Democracy in Sudan would not be likely to bring in a liberal, pro-American democracy, but an anti-American, pro-Islamic regime. Is any of this in the US interest?

Be careful what you wish for.

Kirk
Zap who?


+++

Akagi, Ben had it right!!
"Democracy is two wolves and one sheep deciding on dinner. Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote."
(Ben Franklin)

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!!


PS-Check the Drew Estate Javas!!!

David
"Once again, worse than what?"

If young people are not paying into the social security system, then there is less money in the social security system for people who are already retired and/or nearing retirement (all the baby boomers)

The benefits to our country of allowing young people to contribute to their own private social security accounts does not come to fruition until those young people retire and are not a burden to the government (35 years from now)

In the entire meantime, there is less money to pay retirees. This means higher taxes and less benefits to people retired or nearing retirement.

Allowing young people to opt out of social security means it worsens the problem until all the baby boomers are dead and those young people with their own private accounts retire and are not expecting a government check. thirty to forty years from now.

In the meantime, since fewer people are paying into social security it make the system WORSE. (less money for the retirees)


democracy
I too, have an ideological problem with democracy. Democracy is nothing more than mob rule where a simple majority decides the course. As most people know, America is and has been a representative republic. America should never be in the position of advocating democracy anywhere in the world. Those in the media and in government have become increasingly fond of referring to democracy as though it is our form, and a desirable form,of government. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you think otherwise, consider this. The racial majority of America today is white. If democracy were the law of the land, whites could go to the ballot box and vote in favor of banning all other races from participating in politics. I'm white and this doesn't sound good or right to me. How about you?

Jeffersonite
"The racial majority of America today is white. If democracy were the law of the land, whites could go to the ballot box and vote in favor of banning all other races from participating in politics."

It would have to be an amendment to the Constitution, a hard thing to change. It also assumes all people of a certain color will vote 'lockstep.'

I'm proud to say that none of the New England states would vote for it. Let freedom ring!

Freedom is messy and disorderly ...
The Lord Obama, our Good Father .. requires obedience. Strong, decisive government that brings fairness is the goal.

Freedom is not a priority

Freedom is not a priority for Liberals.

They oppose the freedom to choose a good school for your kids.

They oppose the freedom to say a prayer where and when you want.

They oppose the freedom to purchase a handgun for the protection of yourself or your family.

They oppose the freedom to decide what retiremtn savings is best for you.

They oppose the freedom to purchase what automobile best fits your needs.

They oppose the freedom to receive all sides of an issue in college.

They oppose the freedom to keep what you earn.

They oppose the freedom for you to provide the best healthcare you can afford.

There is one time when Liberals do support Freedom of Choice. It involves the killing of innocent unborn babies. In fact, they support this concept so much they are willing to have the taxpayers fund it.

Not a coup at all
Goldberg remarks

"Obama was chagrined to let stand a coup that preserved democracy."

It wasn't a coup at all. A coup is an extra-legal usurpation of power, usually through military force. The change of power in Honduras was ordered by the Honduran Supreme Court in accordance with provisions of the Honduran constitution written precisely to prevent any elected official from trying to change the term limits clause of the constitution. The Honduran military, in carrying out the order, was performing its constitutional duty.

All of the foregoing makes the Obama administration's policy all the more repugnant. The United States of America now explicitly supports a would-be violator of the Honduran constitution whose goal was to subvert democracy. What a disgrace.

Apologies, NOthing Else
The Obama Doctrine is all about apologies. It's about being a nice country, apologizing for our horrible horrible mistakes, and trying to be friends with other countries. His Doctrine is based on groveling, not a strong confidence that we should justifiably harbor.

Obama's Doctrine is one built in complancency, the notion that America is strong, so let's focus on making friends instead of attempting to sustain our power. His vision reflects a great many liberals who seem to care more about social justice and other countries, than the stability of their own society.

I blog about similar issues. Here's a related blog post to the above:

http://onestdv.blogspot.com/2009/06/complancency-of-america n-liberals.html

Obama= Meddle on Honduras, but Not Iran
Well said Jonah. Here's an article that clearly articulates the honduras situation, and the botched US policy towards it: http://www.mindreign.com/en/mindshare/World-Politics-and-C urrent-Events/Democracy-2c-not-Ch-c3-a1vez-2c-in-Honduras/s l34045952bp297cpp10pn1.html

Obamaspeak
When he says "Let's put ideology aside", he means "Let's put YOUR ideology aside".

He's consistent:

When we said he'd get rid of lobbists, he didn't mean HIS lobbyists.

When he said we'd have to make sacrifices, he didn't mean HE'D be making any (he went on a $45,000 'date night' the day he told us sacrifice would be required.

When he said "we can't keep our thermostats where we want to", he didn't mean HIS. He meant OURS.

When he said kids should be in public schools, he didn't mean HIS kids. (And he actually took away the vouchers for underpriveledged kids that removed them from HIS kid's school.

His rules are always for OTHER people.
I have yet to see otherwise.

Excellent summary
Stealing an election (Iraq) and making yourself a dictator (Honduras). To Obama, these are good things.

Heres what we do know.

Using Obama's own words. Hes on the wrong side of History.

Failing to speak out against corrupt elections in Iran. This is understanable since his own election was corrupted by A.C.O.R.N.

Failing to speak out against a Honduras President defying Honduras Supreme Court.

Failing to speak out when China pollutes the enviorment. In fact his "Cap & Trade" legislation will actually increase pollution in China as our manufacturing jobs move to China.

Failing to speak out when terrorist around the world kill innocent people.

This President simply lacks a moral compass.


Is there a problem?
So Obama proclaimed "What is required is a new Declaration of Independence............."

Hmmm, I wonder which part of the original Declaration of Independence Obama has a problem with. Maybe it picked on King George III too much? Too ideological, perhaps?
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