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Wednesday, January 07, 2009
Jonah Goldberg :: Townhall.com Columnist
Who Are the Real Nazis?
by Jonah Goldberg
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"Go back to the oven! You need a big oven, that's what you need!"

This is what one young woman thought passed for acceptable discourse during an anti-Israel rally last week in, of all places, Fort Lauderdale, Fla. Other chants were similarly unlovely. You can watch it on YouTube if you like.

But why bother? The Fort Lauderdale outburst is just one window on the upside-down world of Israel hatred. Across the Islamic world, and in too many points West, it is still considered a penetrating and poignant insight to call Zionists the "new Nazis." For instance, in Sunday's Gulf News, Mohammad Abdullah al Mutawa, a sociology professor at United Arab Emirates University, penned an essay titled "Zionists are the new Nazis." He began: "Today, the whole world stands as a witness to the fact that the Nazi Holocaust was a mere lie, which was devised by the Zionists to blackmail humanity."

At a Saturday protest in New York against Israel's military assault on Gaza, some carried signs that read: "Israel: The Fourth Reich," "Holocaust by Holocaust Survivors," "Stop Israel's Holocaust," "Holocaust in Gaza" and "Stop the Zionist Genocide in Gaza."

Type "Israel" and "Nazi" into any news search engine and you'll be rewarded, or punished, with a bounty of such statements from just the last week or so. Gaza is the new Auschwitz, the Israeli Defense Forces are SS troops ... I find myself tempted to simply write "et cetera" because it's all so familiar by now. But to do that is to dismiss, and therefore accept, such grotesqueries as trivialities, when in fact such charges are deeply revealing -- just not about Israel.

First, let us note that if supposedly all-powerful Israel is dedicated to exterminating the Palestinian people, it is doing a bad job. The Palestinian population has only grown since 1948. There are more Arab citizens living in Israel proper today than there were in all of Palestine the year Israel was founded.

Perhaps one reason Israel fails at genocide is that it isn't interested in genocide? That would explain why Israel warned thousands of Gazans by cell phone to leave homes near Hamas rocket stockpiles. It would clarify why, even amid all-out war, it offers aid to enemy civilians. It would even illuminate the otherwise mysterious clamor from Israelis for a viable "peace partner."

But no. For millions of Israel haters, the more plausible explanation is that the "defiant" Palestinians have miraculously survived Israel's determination to wipe them out. Continued...
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About The Author
Jonah Goldberg is editor-at-large of National Review Online.
 
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(233 comments so Far)
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Reply # 1
Date: Jan 8, 2009 - 4:02 PM EST
Akaqi: Birth Certificate.
That is one reason the tribe in Rodesia "revolted" by arming itself. Your words justified it. It happened about twenty years ago. I don't remember the tribal names but it is common. Check Congo now for instance. The Rebels belong to one tribe while the government belongs to another one. Africa seldom has the homogenity that we do here in taking sides. Like the Muslims, their divisions follow tribal or family lines. If you read what I said, I agree with the rebels that they have the right to defend themselves!!

So does Israel. As for driving the Palestinians off their lands, when Israel first was founded (by the UN on British territory) the Israelis didn't run off the Arabs. The Arabs left on their own so they wouldn't be in the way when the Jews were wiped out - which didn't happen. A large number of Arabs remained and their families are a part of Israel today. No "driving off" was done by the Israelis. They just didn't allow the ones who left to come back. Why should they? The ones who left were shooting at them! The refugee camps were set up by the various surrounding countries because they wanted the sympathy of square-heads who wouldn't bother to see what was going on. They needed the camps and the people there to generate that sympathy. And they refuse to allow those "Palestinians" to gain membership of their own countries because if they did, the cause would go away.

Palestine and Palestinians also did not exist then, regardless of what they might say now. That country was created at the same time Israel was. So Israel did not drive them off the land nor did they attack Palestine. Read some history books that actually tell what really happened. Modern ones tend to shade the truth, particularly those that are trying to be PC. You won't find them in most modern libraries, though, and will have to hunt for the books. They aren't easy to find.

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Reply # 2
Date: Jan 8, 2009 - 3:44 PM EST
When are people going to learn...
...that short of changing your DNA to be that of a descendant of Muhammad, dying, converting to Islam, or paying the Muslim tax, that you will never please these losers. You will always be Nazis to them.

If these human debris are going to use their women and children as human shields, what difference does it make what collateral damage they sustain. You will always be anathema to them regardless of what you actually do. So why worry? Ignore 'em.

Take care of business, Israel. Don't let anybody tell you when you need to cease fire. You should be done only when you think you are done. You don't owe them anything. Don't finish until the remnant of Hamas dogs whimper off of the battlefield with a severe limp.
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Reply # 3
Date: Jan 8, 2009 - 1:49 PM EST
Alecto
"Gaza is controlled by an illegitimate Hamas led thugocracy."

Really? I didn't know parties that win fair and open elections are illegitimate. I guess you support elections (I don't confuse elections with democracy)when you agree with the outcome, but don't when they go against you. How quiant.

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Reply # 4
Date: Jan 8, 2009 - 1:22 PM EST
Akagi
Writing the UN intervenes in conflicts worldwide is no controversial statement. By the terms of its very charter, the UN seeks to intervene in such matters, and has specifically condemned Israel on a number of occasions.

Last year Condi Rice (with public support from Dubya) made peace between Israel and Palestine a centerpiece of the Bush Administration's foreign relations agenda and the remaining Bush term. US interference in Israel/Palestinian relations goes back decades. Remember Carter's Nobel prize for his efforts there? Even now, Rice and the French are attempting to negotiate a cease-fire. I call that intervention. What term would you apply to the diplomatic core of several nations applying pressure to stop you from defending your own nation in any manner you see fit? Of course the US vetos resolutions brought by the UNSC. It would be a joke not to do so.

Gaza is controlled by an illegitimate Hamas led thugocracy. If for no other reason, Israel's actions challenge this illegitimate regime under which Palestinians suffer but do nothing. There can be no pacifying of Hamas - only total and complete destruction. The US must recognize that the situation cannot be managed, it's war, and it must be won by the Israelis without our interference.

Hamas is more than willing to use Palestinian children to blow up innocent Israelis - why the sudden concern in the world about a few dead Palestinians?
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Reply # 5
Date: Jan 8, 2009 - 11:27 AM EST
45
And if you are driven off your land, pushed into refugee camps and basically living in a South African-type situation, they should just sit and take it? You might note that in South Africa not all the anti-Apartied groups were non-violent (e.g. Pan Africanist Congress). Rhodesia? Care to give us the exact dates and tribes of this incident? Do you mean Rwanda and the Tutsi and Hutu?
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Reply # 6
Date: Jan 8, 2009 - 11:13 AM EST
Alecto
"The problem is an interventionist and radicalized UN."

How has the UN intervened in the conflict. The UN is far from interventionist (which is actually probably a good thing). It did nothing in Rwanada, and was incompetent in Somalia and the Balkins. Its "trip wire" on the Israeli-Lebanon border was routinely brushed aside by both Israel and Hezbollah--unable to stop either from attacking the other.

And how isn't the US letting Israel do what it wants to do? It vetos any UNSC resolution calling on Israel to use restraint and continues to prop up Israel at the tune of 3 billion dollars which doesn't include the military assistance such as joint development of weapons (which Israel then turns around and sells to China) and direct sells of advance weapons. Israel is one of only three countries that have been sold the F15. I don't doubt it'll sell the F22 in years to come and the PLAAF win then soon have stealth technology or at least how to defeat it once Israel reverse engineers it and sells the info to China which is what it did in regards to the Patriot systems).

The US also has never stopped Israel from the continued building and expansion of settlements in the occupied territories--Israel doing there exactly what China is doing in Tibet--creating facts on the ground. The Hanification of Tibet will kill any drive for Tibetian independence and the settelments will make it virtually impossible for a viable Palestinian state to exist or if it does it will be in name only with the country criss-crossed by Israeli checkpoints to "protect" the settlements and its inhabitants.
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Reply # 7
Date: Jan 8, 2009 - 10:57 AM EST
Israel and Rodesia
Some years ago, there was a revolt in Rodesia. The people of one tribe (a majority of the citizens) were being exterminated by the army (the people of another tribe who's chief had gotten into power).

One American thought that all guns should be destroyed because the tribe being exterminated managed to get their hands on some guns and were fighting back. His argument was that the government was always right. If the army wanted to exterminate the other tribe, they should be safely allowed to do so.

I couldn't understand his argument then any more than I can understand the argument of people now who insist that the Israelis should never shoot back at the Palestinians who want to kill them.

Personnally, if someone is out to kill me and my family then I consider it okay to defend myself. And I will grant that same independece to anyone else. Why do people insist that no one should have the right or ability to defend themselves?
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Reply # 8
Date: Jan 8, 2009 - 10:57 AM EST
Geek
"NAZI stands for the 'National Socialist Party'."

And The D in the DPRK stands for Democratic (Minjujuui in Korean and similar to the Chinese of Minzhu Zhuyi), does that mean it is a democracy?

Socialists in Germany ended up where the Jews did.
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Reply # 9
Date: Jan 8, 2009 - 10:51 AM EST
There Can Be No Peace Without Victory
We've witnessed the ineffectiveness of so-called peace treaties in the Middle East. Someone will have to win, and someone will have to lose. Alternatively, we will continue to read about suicide bombers, missiles launched and innocent civilians dying from time to time.

The problem is an interventionist and radicalized UN. In addition the U.S. isn't helping and ought to let Israel, provoked to its limits, defend itself.

Hamas must be stopped.
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Reply # 10
Date: Jan 8, 2009 - 10:43 AM EST
svpallava
In modern context the term used was Palestinian Arabs and Palestinian Jews. So? You going to take the Jewish take that since there was never a "Palestinian state" in the history of the world, a desire for such a state by the "Palestinians" is invalid?

There has never been a state called Taiwan either and the term "Taiwanese" is a fairly modern construct. Taiwan wasn't a seperate entity under Qing rule until 1885 (before it was a prefecture of Fujian) and under Japanese rule it was divided into 8 different prefectures. So, should it follow that there is no such thing as Taiwanese? (A claim some Chinese make.) Was there ever a Filipino state before 1946? How about something called an Indonesian? As far as that goes a Kuwaiti or an Iraqi. These are all very modern constructs and in no way undermines the legitimate desire for self-determination of the inhabitants of these areas had and have. There hadn't been a independent Jewish state for 1900 years--pretty flimsy to base a claim in the 20th century on something that hadn't existed in 19 centuries. I suppose we should restore the Roman Empire and the Han dynasty too.

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Reply # 11
Date: Jan 8, 2009 - 9:49 AM EST
Akagi you are confused
Romans did use the term "Palestine" after AD 70, a reference to the then-long-defunct Philistines, to refer to the AREA. But the term "Palestinian" was NEVER used by the Romans, who considered the area as a subset of Syria Province.

But "Palestinian" as used to refer specifically to Arabs? Unquestionably invented by viperous Mufti Husseini!
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Reply # 12
Date: Jan 8, 2009 - 9:45 AM EST
svpallava
Wrong as usual. The term pre-dates the Arabs. Was used by the Romans to refer to the former area known as Judea. Like me to provide you with some Roman maps that show the term in use? It even pre-dates the Romans going back to the Greeks.

You can argue that the term as applied then to the people of the Aegean don't apply to people who are called Palestinian today. Okay, fine, but then the Jews of today are mostly from Europe and bear little resemblance to those who were living there in 70 ad. If you want to claim the Palestinians aren't really Palestinian--such as one local fool talk show host here who liked to refer to Arafat as an Egyptian (I guess then Ben-Gurion and Golda Meir were really Russian)--fine, but then use the same standard for the Israelis. Perhaps then Farrakhan is right--they are the so-called Jews. If the Palestinians are so-called, so are they.
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Reply # 13
Date: Jan 8, 2009 - 9:41 AM EST
HUH????
Keepontryon
Location: MI
Reply # 216
Date: Jan 8, 2009 - 8:16 AM EST When will it end?
With six billion human targets multiplying like rabbits, will we ever achieve a level of genocide that reduces the population?

Clarify, please? That is some blanket indictment of the human race (I think that you are a part of it, correct?)What is your point?
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Reply # 14
Date: Jan 8, 2009 - 9:31 AM EST
Akagi
Although I believe there is less moral equivalence in the current Israel situation than you do, thanks again for your well-sourced insights. Best of all, you've succeeded in letting Anne make even more of a noxious fool of herself than usual.

Retired Geek - And all of your clip-and-paste has... what to do with the current thread?

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Reply # 15
Date: Jan 8, 2009 - 9:25 AM EST
Rose
Guess what? Shouting "obscenities" (and gives us some examples--get back in to your ovens counts?--are generally protected. Encourage violence against Americans? Generally protected. If I go and shout death to America on the streets of the US, fully protected. If I say, I think all Israelis should be killed. Protected as well. Saying you hate the US, protected. Remember what Gregory Lee Johnson said when he torched the US flag at the GOP convention back in 1984? (which brought us Texas v. Johnson). "Red, White and Blue, we spit on you."

If anyone is subverting the Constitution, it is you.

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Reply # 16
Date: Jan 8, 2009 - 9:18 AM EST
Summers
And what would that talent be? Name calling and spreading paranoid delusions such as Obama was going to send the US military to round up people like her--sooner or later? If that is the talent you mean, yes she excels at that.



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Reply # 17
Date: Jan 8, 2009 - 8:54 AM EST
For Joycey @ 07:56
Answered that one earlier--the very concept of "Palestinian" was invented by power-mad Syrolevantine-origin Arab (Husseini) with obvious European mixture (shown by his "Viking-red" hair/beard/mush) and deeply-ingrained hatred of Jews (seen the hate many Pakistanis bear towards India? Magnify that by a factor of 1 lakh and you'll get close to a true picture of why "Palestinians", especially Hamas, hate Israel).

Anne @ 2009/01/07 20:23; you id yourself as "Brit and Scot"--did you mean "English and Scot"? Last-i-checked, Scotland's long been part-and-parcel of Great Britain.

Also for all non-groats, an insight on Islamist mindset as a whole can be gotten from the tangential link below:

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1152101
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Reply # 18
Date: Jan 8, 2009 - 8:16 AM EST
When will it end?
With six billion human targets multiplying like rabbits, will we ever achieve a level of genocide that reduces the population?
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Reply # 19
Date: Jan 8, 2009 - 7:56 AM EST
HAMAS
But why do they hate Israel?
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Reply # 20
Date: Jan 8, 2009 - 2:14 AM EST
Hate Crimes & Subverting Our Constitutio
Any immigrant who takes an oath to uphold our constitutional laws and pledges allegiance to America with the intent of infiltrating our country and forming groups that are violent and shout obscenities on our public streets and stir violence against American citizens regardless of race, ethnicity, or religion, like in Florida, should be arrested for hate crimes because they're threatening our citizens. People who espouse hatred for our citizens and country and say that they are here to subvert our U.S. constitutional laws and government need to be reported to law enforcement and should be deported back to their countries because that would be the same as a traitor. Foreign immigrants who state that their intent is to take over our government and force all Americans to accept their political agenda aka religion or else should be reported and deported. We The People who are U.S. natural born citizens don't want our country changed and we don't expect foreigners to bring their violence to our streets and against our American citizens. We don't need violent groups in our country and we don't need threats against our citizens since we already watched more than 3,000 Americans murdered on 911 and watched our soldiers and civilians beheaded and tortured nor do we need people walking around our street wearing masks and unidentifiable. Be an American and live peacefully and your welcome and follow our laws instead of using and abusing our laws to sue Americans because they're inconvenienced at airports. Americans are inconvenienced as well because they were attacked and are still threatened even on our own streets! Enough is enough! That's our law!
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Reply # 21
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 11:04 PM EST
Real Nazis?
Go Israel!
Until the problem of the Palestinians and Hamas is solved there will be no peace.
I say let the Arab nations take in the Palestinians and Hamas and give them land.
They are already supporting them anyway if for no other reason than to keep them where they are. If truth were known they want them to stay where they are so as not to spread protests and violence their own countries.
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Reply # 22
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 10:53 PM EST
JackDavid: With you right up to the last

sentence... "That's why Deepak Chopra is onto something."


IMO, Chopra is naive.... and I'm not so sure that he doesn't have a vested interest someplace.

And, I'm pretty sure the people in upstate NY might have just a little problem with the terrorists being re-located there.



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Reply # 23
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 10:42 PM EST
Anne
you are everywhere -- do you have a job? husband? family?

my sympathies to all of them if you do.
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Reply # 24
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 10:34 PM EST
daft: You really are an idiot.....
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Reply # 25
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 10:33 PM EST
Excellent Psychology
This hate that Jonah insightfully explains is indeed extreme in the case of Islamic terrorists. The detachment with which he explains it (the objectivity, I mean) is remarkable. Fortunately for many Palestinian civilians, Israel has excellent "detachment." They are truly trying to avoid killing the people. But Hamas deliberately puts the women and children in harm's way, thus hoping against hope for the PR victory. I think this tactic is really not working anymore. I, for one, blame the leadership, starting with those who from the get-go, in 1948, rejected peace.

Having rambled thus, the hatred, the seething resentments and prejudices afflicting the Palestinians also afflict others, including, at times, you and me.

Till ALL recognize what makes us ALL tick, we are bound to continue with the scapegoating, the road rage, the suicide bombings and whatnot. We are all sick when we lose it.

That's why Deepak Chopra is onto something. He's our greatest living psychologist.
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Reply # 27
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 9:47 PM EST
Summers: You betcha! The "Taiwan Teapot"

is OFF my Christmas Card List! So there! :-)
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Reply # 28
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 9:34 PM EST
Anne,
You know the Taiwan Teapot is a Scroll Troll. Scroll and ignore it. You have better things to do with your time and talent.
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Reply # 29
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 9:21 PM EST
Good Evening Everyone

Early schedule tomorrow.
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Reply # 30
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 9:20 PM EST
GENTLEMEN! May I step in here? You guys

(and I) are on the same side!!!!

Now, please shake hands! :-)



New topic! How much ya wanna bet al Qaeda is doing THE HAPPY DANCE and shooting their guns, knowing that Panetta is going to be head of the CIA?

Probably shouting and singing, "We're home free!"

And as we speak, Commie Colmes is having a fit because the guests "dare" disagree with Panetta as BHO's pick for CIA.

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Reply # 31
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 9:10 PM EST
Tim-PA: I'm first generation here....

Yes, the pipes always bring a tear to my eye and a lump in my throat...

Try not to miss the Delco Highland Games at the Devon Horse Show grounds each summer.

Still can't eat haggis! :-( Yuk!



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Reply # 32
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 9:03 PM EST
Retired Geek !

I save up my name calling for irrelevant smart mouth clowns,such as you.
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Reply # 33
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 8:56 PM EST
Anne !

Akagi is The Taiwan Tiger. I take him for what he is.

Secondly, Ahhh ! My brother-in-law was born there. He's Half Scot-Brit,half American.He's a Member Of The Saint Andrews Society and looks sharp in his kilt.His grandfather was an MBE.

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Reply # 34
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 8:47 PM EST
Tim

Do you normally resort to name calling or are you just having a bad day?
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Reply # 35
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 8:45 PM EST
O'Reilly just played the video Jonah

referred to in the column...

http://beltwayblips.dailyradar.com/video/pro_hamas_demonstr ation/

Here's the idiot irony of the muslims.

While on one hand they deny the Holocaust, yet this muslim women (and I'm using restraint with regard to what I want to call her!!!) is telling the Jews across the street to "Go back to the ovens......"

So, was there a holocaust with ovens, or not!

I'm thinking there were, and the muslims KNOW IT!
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Reply # 36
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 8:37 PM EST
Tim

I AM trying to understand your question.

Hitler was a strong believer in Darwinism and believed he could create a "Super Human" race by killing off anyone not perfect.

He did the same thing with animals.

Anyone not able to work, because of physical or mental handicap were killed.

NAZI stands for the 'National Socialist Party'.

In the last election America chose to become a Socialist state that wants Socialized Health Care - what will happen to those who are very expensive to care for because of physical or mental handicap?
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Reply # 37
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 8:35 PM EST
Retired Greek !

Perhaps you need medication for your senile dementia !
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Reply # 38
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 8:26 PM EST
Tim

Perhaps you need an anger management class?
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Reply # 39
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 8:23 PM EST
Tim-PA: "Annoying libs?" I do try to do

my part! :-) And now and then you throw in an "akagi" now that's another added bonus!

The thing with "akagi." One minute he's your "friend." the next day he'll try to slice you where you stand...


Oh hell, what did I say... "the next day?" How silly of me... Sometimes it's the next half-hour!


And me? Brit and Scots! :-) In fact, my kids swear I'm a direct descendant of Queen Victoria! LOL
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Reply # 40
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 8:15 PM EST
Retired Geek !

If ya take on that attitude, none.

Ya wanna make somethin'of it,jerk ?
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Reply # 41
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 8:10 PM EST
Anne Indeed !

Annoying Liberals has a value ,all it's own.

Also,I'm smirking at the repartee between you and Akagi,my new best friend.

Let me wipe this smirk off my face,I'm bein' such a twit.

Are you a Brit or Irish?
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Reply # 42
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 8:05 PM EST
Tim

Respectfully, what possible concern to you could my posting information and opinion be?

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Reply # 43
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 8:04 PM EST
Geek
Please tell us how many American lives was Rwanda worth--a country with ZERO strategic interest to the United States? If you wanted to save Rwanda, I suggest you and anyone that wanted to join you go get some guns and go there to stop it. The US military is to pursue its own interests, not stop people from cutting each other into fishbait.
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Reply # 44
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 7:49 PM EST
Anne
"BHO will be marching out the US military against us... you and me and everyone who might criticize him and his admin.?

The ONLY question will be how SOON it will happen!"

Yeah sure. What a loon you are!

Anne..I'm sorry. You are right. Obama has a thick file all on you. Better leave the US before January 20th or it may be too late for you. Off to the re-education came with you. You'll be made to carry a little black book and chant down with cow demons and snake spirits. It's all true.

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Reply # 45
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 7:46 PM EST
Tim-PA: Yes, Conservatives on this site!

But you'd be amazed at the people, and the number of people who just read and don't post.

It's a good thing that Ret Geek posts this information. We may know it, (and it probably annoys the liberals, an unintended bonus LOL) but you never know who may have logged on, and is just reading to get information.

Early last year Ret. Geek reminded me of that... and you'd be surprised of the number of people over the last many months (usually in the evening when the threads might be slow) who have seemingly popped up out of nowhere, saying, "I don't post often, or at all, but I read and follow your posts."

It is important.


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Reply # 46
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 7:43 PM EST
Akagi !

these Israeli weapons sales to Red China,The recent arrest of Israel Spy Ben Ami Kadish,The C.F.I.U.S. pressure on Israel Company Checkpoint to scuttle their Sourcefire deal for security reasons and more,indicate that United States National Interests toward Israel and The Palestinians and Our Financial and Military Aid to them need to be reappraised,reflecting U.S. National Interests in The Greater ME Region and Globally.
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Reply # 47
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 7:41 PM EST
Clinton's Genocide
Lesley Stahl on CBS's 60 Minutes.

Madeleine Albright When asked by Stahl with regards to effect of sanctions against Iraq:

"We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?"
Albright replied: "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price — we think the price is worth it."
------------------------------------------------
Samantha Power was rightfully awarded the Pulitzer for her finely written and downright horrifying book "A Problem From Hell" which, in macabre detail, describes the calculated indifference of the Clinton administration when 800,000 Rwandans were being systematically butchered. The red phone rang and rang and rang again. I don't know where Hillary was then. But her husband and his entire experienced foreign policy team - from the brass in the Pentagon to the congenitally feckless Secretary of State Warren Christopher - just let it ring.

NOTE Samantha Power now works for Barack Obama
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Reply # 48
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 7:38 PM EST
Joycey
Zero tolerance for the First Amendment, how American of you.

Saying "The Jews are the New Nazis" is protected you know?
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Reply # 49
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 7:38 PM EST
Warm & Fuzzy
They're not called "nazi's" anymore, they're called "liberals". They want to murder and maim and sabotage anything that doesn't agree with their psychotic, twisted principles. It's only liberals who cheer the deaths of other people. Liberals get excited when someone who doesn't agree with them dies miserably. They love it! Same thing with the muslims who hate Israel. And now we, Americans, have a muslim president. "My Muslims Faith"(Barack Hussein Obama). Doesn't it make you feel all warm and fuzzy? I'll see you all in hell. Be cool. Hey, at least he's black.
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Reply # 50
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 7:37 PM EST
Bill Clinton and Genocide


"In the course of a hundred days in 1994 the Hutu government of Rwanda and its extremist allies very nearly succeeded in exterminating the country's Tutsi minority. Using firearms, machetes, and a variety of garden implements, Hutu militiamen, soldiers, and ordinary citizens murdered some 800,000 Tutsi and politically moderate Hutu. It was the fastest, most efficient killing spree of the twentieth century."

"Clinton had shown virtually no interest in stopping the genocide, and his Administration had stood by as the death toll rose into the hundreds of thousands."

"In March of 1998, on a visit to Rwanda, President Clinton issued what would later be known as the "Clinton apology," which was actually a carefully hedged acknowledgment. He spoke to the crowd assembled on the tarmac at Kigali Airport:"

"We come here today partly in recognition of the fact that we in the United States and the world community did not do as much as we could have and should have done to try to limit what occurred" in Rwanda."

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200109/power-genocide
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Reply # 51
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 7:35 PM EST
Islamic School on Government Property

Islamic Academy of Virginia, Richmond, VA

Fairfax County head of the Board of Supervisors Gerry Connolly (Democrat), approved the Islamic School on Fairfax County owned ground, along with a unanimous vote of the Democrat controlled School Board.

Gerry Connolly was elected Congressman, 11th Congressional District.

"I bring a passion for progressive values, and an ethic of getting things done. I want to bring that same ethic -- the expectation that government will work for its citizens -- to the United States Congress."

-- Gerry Connolly

Text books at this Islamic school (on government owned property) include:
------------------------------------------
The authors of a 12th-grade text on Quranic interpretation state that apostates (those who convert from Islam), adulterers and people who murder Muslims can be permissibly killed.

The authors of a 12th-grade text on monotheism write that "(m)ajor polytheism makes blood and wealth permissible," meaning that a Muslim can take with impunity the life and property of someone believed guilty of polytheism. According to the panel, the strict Saudi interpretation of polytheism includes Shiite and Sufi Muslims as well as Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists.

A social studies text offers the view that Jews were responsible for the split between Sunni and Shiite Muslims: "The cause of the discord: The Jews conspired against Islam and its people. A sly, wicked person who sinfully and deceitfully professed Islam infiltrated (the Muslims)."

-------------------------------

There seems to be NO 'Separation of Church and State' with 'Progressive Democrats' towards any group except Christians?
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Reply # 52
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 7:30 PM EST
Retired Geek !

The Conservatives on this thread.

I'm tryin' to be polite with you.

Respectfully,What's your point ?
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Reply # 53
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 7:29 PM EST
Ret Geek: How much you want to bet that

BHO will be marching out the US military against us... you and me and everyone who might criticize him and his admin.?

The ONLY question will be how SOON it will happen!

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Reply # 54
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 7:28 PM EST
Geek
Weren't conservatives sniping at Bush NOT to go into the Sudan and Clinton for going into Bosnia? Is preventing genocide anywhere in the US interest? The US armed forces should become the world genocide cops?
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Reply # 55
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 7:24 PM EST
Ret Geek asks: "Is Obama Deluded or

this Naive?"

I have no doubt that Marxist Obama was deluded with ALL the time he spent with Davis, and the other Marxists-Communists.

Naive? Perhaps. I thought he was naive AND arrogant when, for example, he had the hubris to even entertain the notion that he could possibly speak at Brandenburg Gate this past summer.

How embarrassing for him, although no doubt he had no clue, but also how embarrassing for the US.


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Reply # 56
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 7:15 PM EST
Do not tolerate these people.
If there is even one Mosque teaching this crap in the United States of America we had better throw the bums out! Zero toleration!
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Reply # 57
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 7:14 PM EST
Obama OK with Genocide

July 2007 "Presidential hopeful Barack Obama said the United States cannot use its military to solve humanitarian problems and that preventing a potential genocide in Iraq isn't a good enough reason to keep U.S. forces there."



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Reply # 58
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 7:14 PM EST
akagi: WHAT PART OF "I've spent far too

much time bothering with the likes of you. So, if you need to believe you're right, yeah, yeah, yeah, ... have at it! :-)"

Do you not get the implication that I'm DONE WITH YOU!

You're NOT nearly as bright as you think you are, and you've always think you've got to have the last word... although it usually WRONG.

As far as Uncle B is concerned? Can you blame him? I don't, and YOU ASK FOR IT!!!

What did I tell you... (again!) " if you think I’m the only one who thinks that you're insufferably arrogant, pompous, pretentious, insolent, boorish, and uncultured, TRUST me, I AM NOT… NOT BY A VERY, VERY, VERY LONG SHOT!"



Puh! Now BUZZ OFF!!! You're annoying everyone!

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Reply # 59
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 7:12 PM EST
Is Obama Deluded or this Naieve?

AYATOLLAH ALI KHAMENEI

"The president-elect has promised changes in policies. There is a capacity for the improvement of ties between America and Iran if Obama pursues his campaign promises, including not confronting other countries as Bush did in Iraq and Afghanistan, and also concentrating on America's state matters and removing the American people's concerns."

"The Iranian nation never recognized Israel and will never ever recognize it," he said at a news conference. "But we feel pity for those who have been deceived or smuggled into Israel to be oppressed citizens in Israel."

"It is incorrect, irrational, pointless and nonsense to say that we are friends of Israeli people."

"But we are on a collision course with the occupiers of Palestine and the occupiers are the Zionist regime, This is the position of our regime, our revolution and our people."

----------------------------------------------

"Islam can be compatible with the modern world. It can be a partner with the Christian & Jewish & Hindu & Buddhist faiths in trying to create a better world."

Barack Obama 2008 Democratic Compassion Forum at Messiah College Apr 13, 2008

Is Obama a Dunce?
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Reply # 60
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 7:10 PM EST
Geek
Since no one has brought up abortion or Obama's abortion policies what does this have to do with Israel or Hamas?

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Reply # 61
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 7:09 PM EST
Obama voters are 'Rubes'

Conned by 'Obama' a Snake Oil Salesman

Barack Obama has never held a job that did NOT involve talking- unless you consider 'Organizing Communities for Communists' a job.

Barack Obama has 'ZERO' executive experience - he has never even run a lemonade stand.

Barack Obama was elected President of Harvard Law Review but published 'NOTHING".

Barack Obama was an Illinois Senator 1996-2004 - voted 'Present' 129 times.

Barack Obama never authored and brought to vote ONE BILL of his own. You know, the stuff, senators are supposed to do. Not just show up and vote 'present'.

Barack Obama, as a US Senator logged 143 days of which he accomplished 'NOTHING'.

Barack Obama (off teleprompter) name the most significant thing you have ever done? uhh umm er uh duh

Barack Obama could not even run his own campaign - David Axelrod did.

Liberals are bragging about being 'Conned' - how funny!

if you are a good enough 'Con Man' like Barack Obama – which involves appearing not quite good enough and rather sympathetic to those they 'Con' – you will get away with it.

Barack Obama is not what he seems, nor is he otherwise.

Barack Obama walking the path between the 'Obama Current Truth' and the delusions of those who trust him - this apparition is either a fiend or the 'Messiah'.

The advantage Barack Obama has over his 'Rubes', is that his lies about his past and lies about the future of his 'Rubes' are so outlandish - the Obama lies are transmuted until the 'Rubes' rejoice in their being conned.

This orgiastic moment could only be achieved on those decadent 'Rubes' that think they are so intelligent that they could NOT possibly be conned - what a group!
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Reply # 62
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 7:07 PM EST
Tim
The Python III was a concern as was the other things. Buchanan was so upset over the Python IIIs he wrote that the US should never sell Israel another bullet. The big thing was the Israeli attempt at the PHALCON. Like the AWACs, it would have given the PLAAF an early warning radar on par with the US and able to see and direct fire against American and Taiwanese assets in the skies over the Taiwan Strait if an outbreak happened. It would have given the PLAAF a very big leg up in the balance of power in the Strait. That was just too much for the Americans to stomach.

Pressure from the US caused Israel to kill the PHALCON sale and since the PLA--Israeli relationship has cooled.

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Reply # 63
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 7:07 PM EST
Tim et al

Who is we?
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Reply # 64
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 7:00 PM EST
Retired Geek !

We know about these Nazi experiments.

Respectfully,what is your point ?

Which Conservatives here are denying these experiments?
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Reply # 65
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 6:55 PM EST
Anne
It will NEVER happen because unlike you most people understand that most Muslims are like most other people and simply want to live their lives, go to work, raise their family, etc. Malaysia isn't Iran is it? My Muslim, Saudi neighbor how sold my house (he was a real estate agent) is one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. I'd pick that Muslim over many of you Christians--Christians like you Anne. When Gandhi said "I like your Christ, but I do not like your Christians..." he was talking about people just like you.

As for Obama and Muslims. McCain would be no different. Romney wouldn't either or Huckabee. I guess nut-job Tancredo who wanted to nuke Mecca, but he has as much chance at winning as I do at being selected the President of the NPC.

This isn't about open borders. This was about wanting to deport American citizens who are Muslims. So, Anne, you are a anti-Muslim bigot. That's okay. Okay to be a bigot in America and I am sure you have plenty of company here on TH too.
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Reply # 66
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 6:52 PM EST
What Conservative Deniers,Gestell ?

Put up or shut up Propagandist Agendist!

Akagi Never Denied that there were Nazi Camps and My Dad Liberated one of them ,you Puke .
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Reply # 67
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 6:52 PM EST
Obama's Support Partial Birth Abortion

Five steps to a partial birth abortion:
---------------------------------------

1) Guided by ultrasound, the abortionist grabs the baby's legs with forceps.

2) The baby's leg is pulled out into the birth canal.

3) The abortionist delivers the baby's entire body, except for the head.

4) The abortionist jams scissors into the baby's skull. The scissors are then opened to enlarge the skull.

5) The scissors are removed and a suction catheter is inserted. The child's brains are sucked out, causing the skull to collapse. The dead baby is then removed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 2004, as a candidate Barack Obama's wife Michelle, sent out a fundraising appeal to keep 'Partial Birth Abortion' a legitimate procedure and Constitutional right.

"U.S. Senate candidate Barack Obama's wife, Michelle, sent a fund-raising letter with the "alarming news" that 'right-wing politicians' had passed a law stopping doctors from stabbing half-born babies in the neck with scissors, suctioning out their brains and crushing their skulls. Michelle called partial-birth abortion 'a legitimate medical procedure,' and wouldn't supporters please pay $150 to attend a luncheon for her husband, who would fight against 'cynical ploy[s]' to stop it?"
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Reply # 68
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 6:50 PM EST
Obama and Sancity of Life


2000-2001
=========
Obama opposes a bill that defines as a “person” a fully born baby who survives an abortion.

Obama votes “present” on legislation that would require doctors to give medical attention to babies who survive abortions. Obama argues that defining “…a pre-viable fetus" that survived an abortion as a "person" or "child would essentially bar abortions, because the Equal Protection Clause does not allow somebody to kill a child, and if this is a child, then this would be an anti-abortion statute."

2002-2003
=========
In 2002, Obama, as an Illinois legislator, votes against the “Induced Infant Liability Act,” a law meant to protect the lives of babies who “inadvertently” survive attempted abortions and then need medical attention to survive; Obama’s is the sole vote against the bill, and a similar bill later passes unanimously in the United States Senate.

Obama votes against an Illinois bill banning state funding of late term abortions.

In 2003, the Born Alive Infant Protection Act again comes up in the Illinois Senate; as chairman of the Health and Human Services Committee, Obama shelves the bill, preventing it from even being brought to the Senate floor for a vote.

Michelle Obama, in February of 2004, sends a fund-raising letter with "alarming news" that "right-wing politicians" had passed a law preventing partial-birth abortions, which she called "a legitimate medical procedure;" she asks supporters to pay $150 to attend a luncheon for her candidate husband, who would fight against "cynical ploy[s]" to stop late-term abortions.

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Reply # 69
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 6:49 PM EST
NAZI Doctors Experiments 2
Mustard Gas Experiments
to investigate the most effective treatment of wounds caused by Mustard gas. Wounds deliberately inflicted on the victims were infected with Mustard gas. Some of the victims died as a result of these experiments and others suffered intense pain and injury.

Sulfanilamide Experiments
to investigate the effectiveness of sulfanilamide. Wounds deliberately inflicted on the victims were infected with bacteria such as streptococcus, gas gangrene, and tetanus. Circulation of blood was interrupted by tying off blood vessels at both ends of the wound to create a condition similar to that of a battlefield wound. Infection was aggravated by forcing wood shavings and ground glass into the wounds. The infection was treated with sulfanilamide and other drugs to determine their effectiveness. Many victims died as a result of these experiments and others suffered serious injury and intense agony.

Spotted Fever (Typhus) Experiments
to investigate the effectiveness of spotted fever and other vaccines. Numerous victims were deliberately infected with spotted fever virus in order to keep the virus alive - over 90 percent of the victims died as a result.

Experiments with Poison
to investigate the effect of various poisons upon human beings. The poisons were secretly administered to the victims in their food. The victims died as a result of the poison or were killed immediately in order to permit autopsies. In or about September 1944 the victims were shot with poison bullets and suffered torture and death.
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Reply # 70
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 6:48 PM EST
NAZI Doctors Experiments 1

Freezing Experiments
to investigate the most effective means of treating persons who had been severely chilled or frozen. The victims were forced to remain in a tank of ice water for up to 3 hours. Extreme rigor developed in a short time. Numerous victims died in the course of these experiments. After the survivors were severely chilled, rewarming was attempted by various means. In another series of experiments, the victims were kept naked outdoors for many hours at temperatures below freezing. The victims screamed with pain as their bodies froze.

Sea-water Experiments
to study various methods of making sea water drinkable. The victims were deprived of all food and given only chemically processed sea water. Such experiments caused great pain and suffering and resulted in serious bodily injury to the victims.

Malaria Experiments
to investigate immunization for and treatment of malaria. The victims were infected by mosquitoes or by injections of extracts of the mucous glands of mosquitoes. After having contracted malaria the victims were treated with various drugs to test their relative efficacy. Over 1,000 victims were used in these experiments. Many died and others suffered severe pain and permanent disability.
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Reply # 71
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 6:44 PM EST
Akagi !

The Jerusalem Post also recognized American concerns. “The Americans, meanwhile, are apprehensive about the cozy ties being forged on this side of the world, which, they fear, may involve the illegal transfer of U.S. technologies in Israel’s hands,” the Post reported. It’s interesting to note that nowhere in the article did the Post deny the legitimacy of those concerns.


Attribution: http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0199/9901054.html
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Reply # 72
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 6:42 PM EST
Anne
Well as soon as UncleB stops saying for the 100th time I am an alien taking orders from the DPRK, I'll stop calling him what he is--an idiot. Deal? Maybe at some point in time he will actually have something intelligent to say--hey, it can happen.

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Reply # 73
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 6:40 PM EST
akagi

Something I learned about debating with Anne a long time ago, as Ike once said about McCarthy, ""I will not get in the gutter with that guy."
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Reply # 74
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 6:40 PM EST
Anne
No Anne, the frail little flower who can dish it out but can't take it. From you those are compliments--what do they say, boos on the road are cheers?
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Reply # 75
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 6:39 PM EST
Akagi: And YOU criticize MOI? ha ha ha h

Location: GA
Reply # 148
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 4:44 PM EST UncleB

"You aren't all ignorant--just many of you are. You for one."


Now, that was nice... really nice, wasn't it? And of course, it was a necessary post?


Remember, you really NEED to work on trying NOT to be "insufferably arrogant, pompous, pretentious, insolent, boorish, and uncultured."

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Reply # 76
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 6:36 PM EST
Gestell
I have yet to see a single post here that has denied the Holocaust. I did see that unlike what many Jews like to put forth, a post that pointed out that they were not the ONLY victims of it.

Tim pointed out that the Hamas-Israel fight was a fight between two groups of foreigners and the US shouldn't be pushed by the "Israeli agendists" into something not in the US interest. Is that denying the Holocaust?

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Reply # 77
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 6:27 PM EST
akagi: The PROBLEM IS, YOU CANNOT ADMIT

when you're WRONG! (In spite of the countless times you ARE WRONG!)

"The chance that ANY president or congress would bar someone due to their membership in a mainstream religion from immigrating to the US is so remote as not to be worthy of discussion."

BINGO! YEA! HORRAH! And isn't THAT EXACTLY what I posted (#82)?

Why yes, that IS precisely what I posted (#82) before you inserted your inane comments, so let me share that with you AGAIN, for at least the SECOND or THIRD TIME.....

And I QUOTE... (copy and paste #82!)

"OF COURSE, this will NEVER HAPPEN since we have a pres-elect who is all for "open borders," let everybody and anybody in, and who has stated that he will "stand with the muslims...."

And, you will notice that "NEVER HAPPEN" was in UPPER CASE for EMPHESIS!... ***** "NEVER HAPPEN." *****

I haven't a clue how to make that clearer, even for YOU.

Obviously, you have a HUGE problem “working and playing well with others!” It’s a “personality disorder!” You are one of the most arrogant, pompous, pretentious, insolent, boorish, uncultured posters on TH. And, if that’s “offense,” TOUGH! TOO BAD! DEAL WITH IT!

Try to imagine just how “offensive” you are to most of the posters on TH.

And, if you think I’m the only one who thinks that you're insufferably arrogant, pompous, pretentious, insolent, boorish, and uncultured , TRUST me, I AM NOT… NOT BY A VERY, VERY, VERY LONG SHOT!

Sometimes facing UP to the truth is painful.

But, I've spent far too much time bothering with the likes of you. So, if you need to believe you're right, yeah, yeah, yeah, ... have at it! :-)


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Reply # 78
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 6:20 PM EST
the Holocaust-deniers come out
I'm delighted to see that conservative Holocaust-deniers have surfaced here. Just when many TH readers were congratulating themselves for their love of Isreal by expressing support for the current IDF action in Gaza, the real, hard-core, old-fashioned right-wingers come out to give voice to the anti-Jewish animus that has always been part of conservatism.

Back int eh great days of conservatism in the US (the golden age of Buckley, Kirk, et.al.), American conservatives had no problem vocing the traditional conservative disdain for Jews. Buckley even admitted it in his book on anti-Semitism. "National Review" despised Israel because Israel had been created by a group of left-wing European Jews. Eventually, Buckley and Co. covered their tracks and wouldn't let butter melt in their mouths about Israel and the Jews.

So every now and then, for old times' sake, I look forward to some conservatives who haven't shifted their hatreds with the times.
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Reply # 79
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 6:12 PM EST
Robert
"Jewish people have been persecuted more than any other ethnic..."

Really? I am betting some Africans, Chinese and various others will dispute this claim.

Tim:

Illegal is a bit strong but they did so without the US knowledge. The US didn't know about the Python III sales until the PLAA's J8s began to buzz the US EP-3 Orion flights in the South China Sea in January of 2001. It helped China develop the J10 which was based on the Lavi which the US helped Israel develop. Then there was the PHALCON. The problem is these were either jointly developed by US and Israel or developed by Israel itself and the US thus had no legal way to stop the exports unlike if it was say a Israel F15 sold to them by the US--the US could block those sales legally and if Israel went ahead and sold them that would be illegal, but technically the China sales were legal--they hurt Taiwan security (and US, Japan security), but they were legal.
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Reply # 80
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 5:38 PM EST
Oh Yeah Robert !

My Dad led troopers from Normandy ,to Paris,to The Bulge,to The Rhine To one of those camps,where he cut out troopers,a medical officer and medical supplies to aid them ,while he moved his Mech.Recon and Ranger Command forward to chase down German Forces.
More than 70 Million people died in WWII and My Dad and his Troopers weren't there just to serve the interests of cheap Agendists,who neglect the deaths of The Non-Jewish victims of those Nazi camps and The Greater Historical Significance of WWII.

Got It Bub,Get It !
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Reply # 81
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 5:27 PM EST
I address this

to the libturd population of parasites who live off the Town Hall host.

I am prompted to do this by yet again another rant that Bush lied about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. They are jubilant about this unfact (like Gore winning FL in 2000) because they hate GWB with an unreasonable passion. They have only one reason to exult and that is out of hatred for Bush and our military.

Reasonable, patriotic, compassionate people were relieved there were no WMDs used against
our troops, as Saddam had employed against the Iranians and his fellow citizens, thereby sparing us the casualties and death of our troops which could have run into the tens of thousands.

I'm glad there were no WMDs for humanitarian reasons. The libs are only glad for selfish reasons.

Bush did not lie about WMDs. He believed Saddam had them just as the upper echelons of the Clinton democratic party who are caught on tape saying the same thing long before Bush came on the scene. To deny this is akin to denying the holocaust.
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Reply # 82
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 5:19 PM EST
Tim from PA - Please grow up.
Your statement really shows your ignorance. Now I'm not Jewish ok, the Jewish people have been persecuted more than any other ethnic Group on Earth from the beginning of written History, so please give it a rest. The People of Israel have been going out of the way to get along, the Palestinians just cannot accept that Israel exists at all. Israel has every right to defend itself from attack.
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Reply # 83
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 5:15 PM EST
Uh Oh, Akagi's Right Again !

Israel illegally sold U.S. Weapons Technology to The Red Chinese,jeopardizing Taiwan and Japan.
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Reply # 84
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 5:00 PM EST
Taft
"Its as tho the Federals had never left the South."

They haven't. McPherson Barracks named for one of Sherman's chief aides who was killed during the Battle of Atlanta (and why at one time a developer in Atlanta named many of the streets after Confederate Generals (now renamed after Civil Right leaders)then from 1885 onward Fort McPherson--it is going to be closed though--nearly 150 years after the fall of Atlanta.
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Reply # 85
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 4:59 PM EST
45 caliber !

The problem is that Jewish Agendists have attempted to minimize the deaths of those Non-Jewish victims of The Nazi camps and have attempted to rewrite WWII around The Holocaust,cheapening History by using it as political argument tool.



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Reply # 86
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 4:44 PM EST
UncleB
You aren't all ignorant--just many of you are. You for one.
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Reply # 87
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 4:42 PM EST
Destiny

The killing in Gaza has nothing to do with the holocaust, but the continued subjection of the Palestinians. Its as tho the Federals had never left the South.
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Reply # 88
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 4:42 PM EST
Holocaust Deniers and Lies
When General Eisenhower first saw one of the death camps, he ordered his men to take as many pictures as they could and to make careful records of everything. His reason? He said that sooner or later someone would insist it never happened - and he wanted to make sure there was plenty of evidence to refute them.

The pictures are there. And don't tell me that they deliberately starved themselves to death or close to it just so someone could take pictures. And while 6 million Jews were killed, so were about 7 million other people, including a huge number of Gypsies.
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Reply # 89
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 4:31 PM EST
Holocaust Deniers - Come on Down!
I thought these Israel-haters didn't think that the Holocaust ever happened? According to Amadinejad and other Islamic fundamentalists the Nazis didn't exterminate the Jews of Europe. So why, according to them, should Zionists return to the ovens if they were never in them to begin with. This is top flight thinking and indicative of why Israel is now kicking Hamas from one end of Gaza to the other.
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Reply # 90
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 4:26 PM EST
As I said folks......
Akagi gets all of his information from his North Korean handlers
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Reply # 91
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 4:26 PM EST
fc
Pure BS. So if you oppose Israel selling advance weapons to China, it means you hate Jews? Same idiotic claptrap that's been pushed by the Israel firsters for years and it is total tripe. So, if Japan does something you don't like and you vocally oppose it does that make you automatically are anti-Shinto?
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Reply # 92
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 4:24 PM EST
akagi
It is your irritating presence and holier than thou you are all ignorant I know it all demeanor that is getting OLD. YOU should leave.
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Reply # 93
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 4:18 PM EST
Crazy Mike
Not sure why you directed that post at me--care to be clear on what issue you have with what I said exactly since your post is pretty confusing. You might think of taking the caps off too.

Me a Republican myrmidon? Ask Anne about that. Anne? Do you think I am a GOP myrmidon like yourself? No. Didn't think so.

Stalin and Hitler would have loved to have the powers Bush had? Might I inform you that Stalin and Hilter had unlimited power over the state and its organs--something Bush could only dream about in his most wildest dreams. Let's take a few examples--Hilter or Stalin didn't have to concern themselves with opposition parties--there were none. Nor worry about some court issuing opinions counter to their desires. Gitmo? Under Stalin and Hitler they wouldn't be in Gitmo--they'd have been killed as soon as they were seen as no longer needed. No worry about them appealing to some court to protect their rights. Spy on their citizens? This was SOP for the regime. Bush more power than Hitler...sure...but not in this universe.
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Reply # 94
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 4:11 PM EST
HansFury
To what post is your post number 3 referring to?

Scared little rabbits!
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Reply # 95
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 4:10 PM EST
Israel's Enemies
Anti-Israeli activities are a disguise for those who hate Jewish people. A simple tactic that can be effective.
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Reply # 96
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 4:04 PM EST
Me
Well I guess the Jews and Muslims blowing each other to bits doesn't matter. Maybe make it all easy--build a giant stadium someplace and give all the Israelis swords and all the Palestinians swords and have them go at it--last one not hacked into fishbait wins--maybe have it on pay-for-view.

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Reply # 97
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 4:01 PM EST
Who Are The Real Nazis??
Reply to comments by Akagi: Are you kidding me ?? G.W.(Go To War) BUSH who lied to the American people about WEAPONS OF MASS DECEPTION!! G.W.(Go To War) BUSH who is the American Dictator who has the nerve to call Chavez, Ahmedinijad, Castro, and Assad evil dictators when he is the one who single - handedly destroyed the CONSTITUTION AND THE BILL OF RIGHTS of EVERY AMERICAN CITIZEN WITH THAT STUPID UnPATRIOT ACT!!! How DUMB do you REPUBLICAN LEMMINGS HAVE TO BE?? G.W.(Go To War)BUSH who ALONG WITH THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS SPENT MORE ON THE WAR IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN THAN ALL THE PRESIDENTS IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES!!! FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE PARTY?? WHEN DONKEYS FLY!!! STALIN, KRUSCHEV, HITLER, KHADAFI AND EVERY OTHER TYRANT WOULD LOVE TO HAVE HAD THE DICTATORIAL POWERS (PLAYING GOD) THAT G.W.(Go To War) BUSH HAS EXERCISED, WITH THE APPROVAL OF THE REPUBLICAN PARROTS LIKE ANN COULTER. RAVAGIN' SAVAGE, SLUSH LIMBAUGH, SHAWN VANITY, MIKE GALLAGHER AND ALL THE REST OF THE SO - CALLED CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH TAKING ALL YOUR FREEDOM AWAY IN THE NAME OF FIGHTING FOR YOUR AND MY FREEDOM!!!! WHAT A BUNCH OF HYPOCRITES!!!
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Reply # 98
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 3:55 PM EST
Some here have it right
Globug, Richard from FL, etc. This is THE AGES OLD WAR!!!

You want a solution? He's coming back. You laugh and say "when?". He's coming back, just as surely as he came the first time, when no one suspected. 400 years of silence from God the first time, 2000 years or more this time, but He is coming back to judge the quick and the dead.

So the solution? Accept Christ as your Lord and Savior before it's too late. When is it too late? When you die or He come's back, which ever comes first. Laugh all you want. They lauged as he died on a cross. You won't be laughing as He throws you into the eternal lake of fire. Confess. Repent. The ONLY solution.
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Reply # 99
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 3:52 PM EST
Left out author
of disgusting quote. Marty peretz
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Reply # 100
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 3:51 PM EST
Anne
I think you have some sort of mental defect that keeps you from remembering what you write. Is calling me 12 a result of me calling you a twit? Do you recall this line you wrote to me some 39 minutes prior? "Subject: akagi = Arrogant twit!"
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Reply # 101
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 3:51 PM EST
Dehumanization
The point here is that if you dehumanize anyone, even Nazis, the that same label might be put on you next.

Everyone is created in God's image, even Hitler.

Adolph was a baby once.
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Reply # 102
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 3:51 PM EST
Goldberg

Asks who the real Nazis are? Hamas is a bad entity but not equal to the Nazis, nor is the Hammas leadership like Germany's.

The disturbing trend that Neocons are buying into is the old Nazi tactic of killing in revenge, not just in kind but 10 fold. For every Nazi killed by the resistance, 10 innocnt people were lined up and shot, and if some big wig was killed, a whole town would pay. Here is one example;

"So at 11:30 on Saturday morning, according to both the Jerusalem Post and Ha'aretz, as well as the New York Times, 50 fighter jets and attack helicopters demolished some 40 to 50 sites in just about three minutes, maybe five. Message: do not f*ck with the Jews.

Remember, in the last 6 months, not one Jew had been harmed."
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Reply # 103
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 3:47 PM EST
No Anne
Being 12 would mean I was at least three times your mental age. The reason he was stripped of his citizenship was because HE LIED ON HIS VISA APPLICATION meaning his visa application was fradulent which in turn meant his visa was invalid as well as his citizenship application and thus his citizenship. The point that the Nazis were a movement hostile to America isn't all that Germane--it doesn't matter why the US government barred Nazis only that they were barred.

The chance that ANY president or congress would bar someone due to their membership in a mainstream religion from immigrating to the US is so remote as not to be worthy of dicussion. Better chance that Georgia will leave the Union over your mindless idea.

FYI: Check out Act 237 of the Immigration and Nationality Act--the phrase is "PARTICIPATED IN NAZI PERSECUTION, GENOCIDE, OR THE COMMISSION OF ANY ACT OF TORTURE OR EXTRAJUDICIAL KILLING. Act 237 also covers "terrorist" activities--so Hamas would be covered, Muslims would not.



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Reply # 104
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 3:35 PM EST
Truth? Lies?
It amazes me how usually intelligent people would rather believe a lie and then pass it on than to recognize it for a lie. I've spoken to American soldiers who saw the camps first hand and know the grand- daughter of a survivor. Why would hundreds of thousands of people tatoo themselves with the designation of death? Why would these same people willingly lock themselves up in these camps with little food or anything else? Or why would people work themselves literally to death and accept beatings , unless they knew their lives were at stake?
If we of European decent denied the Crusades every Muslim in the world would be livid. Why then do sane men listen to the lies about the Holocaust? WWII wasn't so long ago that all the victims or the perpatrators have forgotten. The Holocaust deniers are calling everyone who liberated a camp , German records, survivors , and those who wittnessed the horror of those days liars who have conspired to dupe the world. The Muslims however, have somehow seen through these lies. How much garbage can one people swallow? As for Isreal being the "new Nazies" That's just a sick way of being as obnoxious as possible. How about a sign that says " Osama Bin Laden is a pig eating son of a Pig hearder " That's about as disgusting to a Muslim as you could get. It's also , nasty, untrue, hurtful, and inflammatory speach. Someone somewhere would believe it then the anger would spread everywhere. Like I said, even sane people will believe lies and then pass them on as truth.
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Reply # 105
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 3:19 PM EST
akagi blubbers:"Twit(that means you Ann)

What are you, 12yrs. old?

Let me repeat this for you ONCE AGAIN!

"... because he was a member or PARTICIPATION IN A MOVEMENT THAT WAS HOSTILE TO THE UNITED STATES."


And OF COURSE, you reacted (again inappropriately) before you read my entire post #82....

So, let me repeat THAT again for you.....

"OF COURSE, this will NEVER HAPPEN since we have a pres-elect who is all for "open borders," let everybody and anybody in, and who has stated that he will "stand with the muslims...."

As of Jan. 20, 2009, we will be officially "sca-roood!"


Now, I ask you, did you also flunk out of the Helen Thomas School of Charm?
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Reply # 106
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 3:11 PM EST
Anne
Yes. I suppose the US could declare Islam a hostile force and the US could then bar entry into the US by such and those that lied on their applications could have their visas revoked and citizenship stripped, but what do you suppose the chance of that coming to pass?

Members of terrorists organizations such as Hamas are already barred and thus they could be stripped of visa status and/or citizenship for belonging to such an organization and then lying about it on your visa/citizenship applications. But you didn't say Hamas or terrorist organizations, you said Muslims.

And by the way, I could go through the streets carrying a Hamas flag chanting Al mout li Amreeka and I'd be perfectly free to so--protected by the First Amendment.
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Reply # 107
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 2:50 PM EST
Sorry Twit (that means you Anne)
"The court declared that Reimer's original visa, which he received under the Displaced Persons Act of 1948, was invalid. The act barred people who persecuted others because of their race, religion or national origin from receiving visas."

That is exactly what I said--he obtained his visa by fraud which meant the visa was invalid. If the visa was invalid so was his citizenship application and thus it could be revoked.

Now if you can get the Congress to bar Muslim immigration and a person who is a Muslim then lies on their visa application that they are a Muslim--then you can revoke their visas and citizenship. Good luck with that though.
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Reply # 108
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 2:40 PM EST
akagi = Arrogant twit!

"The reason why they can revoke is that former Nazis lied on their visa application..."

NOT EXACTLY! :-) Wrong again!

"Specifically, the government contends that, pursuant to section 13 of the DPA, Reimer was ineligible for a visa, because during the war he assisted the Nazis in persecution, or alternatively, because he was a member or participant in a movement hostile to the United States. See DPA § 13, 64 Stat. at 227."

Did you get that part??? Want me to repeat it?

"... because he was a member or participant in a movement hostile to the United States."



But, the POINT WAS (which you ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS MISS) is that it IS POSSIBLE! (Ooooh, perhaps YOU should start worrying! LOL)

"And no, I can't tell when nutcases like you are being facetious."

Ha ha ha ha... whose the "nutcase" now? :-)

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Reply # 109
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 2:39 PM EST
For Anne @ 14:24
Indian history is replete with exactly such acts by Islamic rulers.

Another little factoid: in which other religion than Islam would propaganda be approved which states that "descendants of forced converts are heroes, while descendants of voluntary converts are cowards" (editted from ACTUAL pamphlets found on Pakistani 1971-POW's)--especially when the ethnic groups of the original forced converts have had "a historical tendency to bow before any invader", while those of the voluntary have a perennial history of rebellion and unruliness?
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Reply # 110
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 2:31 PM EST
I am no surprised ...
by the harpings of the hateful woman in Ft. Lauderdale. She is simply another example of those who only spew hate and have no real knowledge of the situation.

I am reminded of an incident that happened a few years ago when Shindler's List came out in the theatres. My husband took our son to see it. Behind them was a woman with a little girl who looked to be about 9 years old. This little girl constantly kicked my husband's seat all through the movie. Finally, my husband turned around and asked the mother to keep her child from kicking his seat and the mother was enraged.

Added to this event, everytime the "girl in the red coat" was shown on the screen, this little girl would vocalize "Die Jew, Die!"

When the movie ended, the mother poured all her Coke on my husband and stomped out with her child. The biggest problem we have with the haters in our country is that they continue to rant their hatred and breed.
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Reply # 111
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 2:24 PM EST
45caliber: Well said! Good points!

And what of those statements are common with the islamic mentality???

"Nazis believe that all people different from them should be exterminated or subjected as slaves."

islamics believe that all people different from them... ie "infidels" should DIE!

"Nazis would risk their lives to kill those they considered inferior."

Islamic terrorists! Suicide bombers!


"Nazis would torture, rape, and kill for fun."

islamics do the same, but added to that, they STONE rape victims.


"Nazis insisted that no one else should be allowed any part of the world."

The islamic goal is to convert the entire world to Islam.

Now take a look at the Israelis and the Hamas. Which group most closely fits the descriptions above? NOT THE ISRAELIS!


And if anyone can say "the Israelis" with or without a straight face, they're either a muslim OR a liberal.
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Reply # 112
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 2:22 PM EST
Anne
Yes Anne. The reason why they can revoke is that former Nazis lied on their visa application (they ask you that question) and then ask you again when you apply for citizenship. He lied both times. If he had told the truth, he never would have been granted the visa or been approved for citizenship. Both the visa and citizenship were obtained by fraud and thus can be revoked.

However, you can't revoke a naturalized citizen's citizenship short of fraud which is the crux of Afroyim v. Rusk. And no, I can't tell when nutcases like you are being facetious.

svpallava:

Again, that was your pals Jim and Denise doing that. He brought it up, not me. What did Executive Order 9066 have to do with liberals being liars and cheats?

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Reply # 113
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 2:12 PM EST
AW
"I think they'd find Israel isn't a bad neighbor."

Except for checkpoints throughout the occupied territories making a drive that should take 15 minutes into hours, closing the border at random times, enacting what is little better than South Africa's pass laws, Nazi-like collective punishments and on and on.

If I had a neighbor like that I'd think about moving--I suppose that is Israel's idea.

Uncle B:

The Akagi is a non-citizen routine is getting a little old, maybe you should get newer material.

John:

Perhaps you should investigate the condition of Gaza before Hamas, before Fatah. Basically Gaza is one large refugee camp--the size of DC and the 6th most densely packed country on earth. The per capita income is $600 a year ranking near the very bottom. Yeah, you could do much with that

"'Club Med' resorts, hotels, and casinos on their 25 mile long beach and prospered."

Yes. total aid for all of the PA is 200 million compared to Israel's 3 billion and much of this is just to carry on basic services. You are totally clueless about the conditions. Even if Hamas signed a non-aggression pact with Israel and lived up to it life wouldn't improve much for those living there--Gaza is basically a hell on earth.
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Reply # 114
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 2:10 PM EST
its the same here
Its amazing that people who preach their racial superiority also complain about racism ( Loony Farrakan ). And those who complain that Jews are keeping, or have kept, them down are racially inferior. In my younger days I was bitten by the anti semitism snake and believed this crock too. It struck me one day that if jews were keeping me down then they must be superior to me and if I, scizophrenically argued, that they were controlling my life then I deserved to be led. Of course this led me out of the wood of stupidity and I started to realize that I was soley responsible for my own happiness and I have nobody else to blame. I can't blame jews, blacks, mexicans, tobacco comapnies, or evangelical christains for any bad decision I have ever made. God bless you all. Let Isreal do what it has to do to survive. They deserve it until they decide that they don't want fight anymore. I hope they they keep at it.
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Reply # 115
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 2:06 PM EST
What Is a Nazi?
Nazis believe that all people different from them should be exterminated or subjected as slaves.

Nazis would risk their lives to kill those they considered inferior.

Nazis would torture, rape, and kill for fun.

Nazis tested many of their toys, such as poisonous gas, on prisoners.

Nazis insisted that no one else should be allowed any part of the world.

Now take a look at the Israelis and the Hamas. Which group most closely fits the descriptions above? (And if you can say "the Israelis" with a straight face, then you have absolutely no idea of what the Muslims believe and do.)
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Reply # 116
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 2:02 PM EST
Arabs
Who cares, the Gazans deserve what they sow, they're reaping their crop. You can't kick the pit-bull without realizing it will eventually come for your throat. I have no sympathy for the residents of Gaza. You elect terrorists to govern you, you are complicit, you are NOT innocent.
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Reply # 117
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 2:01 PM EST
For UncleB @ 13:38
Shukria--you've explained nicely why Akagi posted essays recently about WW2 (Pearl Harbour, Midway, ...) where no non-groat could see any relevance thereof.
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Reply # 118
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 1:59 PM EST
For aurorawatcher
Also another comparison: the Israeli Arab can be considered akin to the Indian Muslim--basically, the two groups both enjoy peace and democracy (a misquoted stat is that Muslims have a higher poverty-rate than Hindus, but when "state-adjusted" this difference disappears entirely)--in contrast to repression/oppression in Muslim/Arab countries.

High posts achieved by these minoritys:
(*) every Indian federal cabinet has included Muslims; the country's first Education Minister (not a token post) was A.K. Azad.
(*) A Telenganese Muslim, Idris Latif, was Indian Air Force Chief of Staff 1978-1981
(*) India has had three (technically four, but one was a short interim term by a VP) Muslim Presidents (while the post is largely ceremonial, Indian President can dissolve Parliament or dismiss PM)
(*) In Israel, Nazareth Christian Arab Azmi Bishara ran for PM in 1999.
(*) Raleb Majadele, Israel's CURRENT Sports/Science/Culture Minister
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Reply # 119
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 1:52 PM EST
Akagi #88: Can you read? Can you even

comprehend? Are you sane? Are you worried that that would INCLUDE YOU? (Now that I think about it, it wouldn't be such a bad idea!)

Can you ascertain when someone is being facetious?

But don't be so damn smug you little twit!
Check out, United States v. Reimer, 02-6286

"U.S. Citizenship Revoked for Former Nazi
Tom Perrotta" New York Law Journal, February 2, 2004

"A federal appeals court has revoked the citizenship of an 84-year-old New York resident who admitted he was a member of a Nazi firing squad in Poland that killed Jews during World War II."



Okay, okay, okay... I'll accept your apology AGAIN! But this IS getting a bit tiresome.
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Reply # 120
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 1:49 PM EST
Akagi:
If the nutcases in Israel and Gaza were really equivalent, there would be no Palestinians left. They would have been exterminated or driven into the sea. The Israelis have plenty of power to do so, yet they pulled back from their settlements in Gaza and on the West Bank to allow the Palestinians to have some land with no Israelis living there.

If the Arabs are destined to eventually take over Israel through a political majority, what in the H-E double hockey sticks are they doing shooting rockets into Israel now and provoking more deaths on their own side? That seems really stupid. I agree with you that some of them are just pure nutcases.
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Reply # 121
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 1:45 PM EST
Uh Oh ! Akagi Are Agreeing !

Gotta give That Little Devil, Akagi his due !

Irgun were as much terrorists as Hamas are.

Here's a few of their operations:
June 12, 1939 A post office in Jerusalem was bombed, killing a British bomb expert trying to defuse the bombs. -
June 16, 1939 6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Jerusalem. -
June 19, 1939 20 Arabs were killed by explosives mounted on a donkey at a marketplace in Haifa. -
June 29, 1939 13 Arabs were killed in multiple shootings during one-hour period. -
June 30, 1939 An Arab was killed at a marketplace in Jerusalem. -
On the same day 2 Arabs were shot and killed in Lifta. -
July 3, 1939 An Arab was killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa. -
July 4, 1939 2 Arabs were killed in two attacks in Jerusalem. -
July 20, 1939 An Arab was killed at a train station in Jaffa. -
On the same day 6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Tel-Aviv. -
On the same day 3 Arabs were killed in Rehovot. -
August 27, 1939 2 British officers were killed by a mine in Jerusalem. -
September 27, 1944 ~150 Irgun members attacked four British police stations; unknown number of casualties [11] -
September 29, 1944 senior British police officer of the Criminal Intelligence Department assassinated in Jerusalem [11] -
July 22, 1946 King David Hotel Bombing; 91 fatalities, most civilians -- 41 Arabs, 17 Jews, and 15 British [12]

One man's Terrorist is another man's Freedom Fighter !
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Reply # 122
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 1:44 PM EST
SOCK IT TO HAMAS NOW! AND IRAN ALSO!
HAMAS got all of Gaza--in good condition, without Israelis. They could have decided to live in peace, run the farms and country for their people's benefit. They could have used the international aid to build "Club Med" resorts, hotels, and casinos on their 25 mile long beach and prospered.
***
They elected to keep doing Nazi Germany type attacks on innocent neighbors since they couldn't win against the Israeli military. They train their children in jihad and hate--like Hitler did. There are not many "innocent" people left there--only terrorists and their enablers, and supporters.
***
The U.N. and Egypt allowed HAMAS to import their rockets, AK-47's, RPG's, explosives, and bullets through the 5 mile long Gaza / Egypt border. No decrying of the daily rocket attacks on innocent Israelis was heard.
***
Fight on to victory--peace follows victory--it does not precede it. Then take over the place and re-educate the people like the USA did after WW2 in Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. War worked well then.
***
Take the war to Iran--oil embargo after the USA achieves energy independence--if we ever do. Remove the source of the cancers spreading throughout the Mideast.
***
Shut down all Madrassahs--a 10 year prison sentence for teaching Islamic hate. Then take away U.S. citizenship and ship HAMAS supporters back to their benighted third (or fourth) world S**THOLES--we don't need them in any civilized country.
***
Rocketman
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Reply # 123
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 1:41 PM EST
Granite Eagle #87: Ooops! You're right..

Sorry for the typo... :-(
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Reply # 124
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 1:38 PM EST
Akagi - Rules of War
If you attack another country and lose, you don't get to dictate the terms of your surrender. The Arab of Palestine had already sold about 40% of the Mandate to Zionists before WW2, when Hilter and the Mufti confiscated Zionist property and gave it back to the Arabs. The Arabs acted all shocked when they were told by the Britist they'd have to give it back. The partitioning of the Mandate was easier for the Brits than sorting out the titles since most of Hitler's records concerning Jewish property were in disarray. All-told, considering that they'd sold them the land for a fair market value, the Arab Palestinians were treated fairly in the Mandate partition. In fact, the Zionists had bought the much-better land of the West Bank, but ended up with the more difficult land. They made it flourish. When the Palestinians participated in the multiple wars against Israel, they also lost and had their land taken. Last I looked at a map, they've been given a great deal of that back, but Israel was under no obligation to give it to them. The Palestinians and their allies started the wars. Israel won. Rules of war say Israel gets to dictate the terms. They've been generous under the circumstances. If the Palestinians would stop lobby rockets at Israel, I think they'd find Israel isn't a bad neighbor.
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Reply # 125
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 1:38 PM EST
jmind
with regard to akagi the non US citizen, sometimes his North Korean handlers give him too much info to regurgitate coherently. He doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. Just spewing forth any and all info supplied to him.
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Reply # 126
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 1:36 PM EST
Shoshana's 13:10 post on-the-nail!
The one similar case to "Palestinians", AFAIK, is that of Biharis in Bangladesh. They left India for newly-created East Pakistan at Partition, and benefitted greatly from the declaration of Urdu (spoken as native language by Biharis and mohajirs who then constituted about 10% of entire population--as against Bengalis 55% and Punjabis 25%) as Pakistan's national language. In 1971, the Biharis willingly joined the pro-government razakars (goonda-militias) against their Bengali (somewhat reduced by then, to 53% of total Pakistan population) neighbours, who naturally wanted them to leave newly-independent Bangladesh. Initially (1972-1976), Biharis were accepted by Pakistan, but acceptance was halted in 1976 (don't know the reason, but perhaps Biharis in truncated Pakistan had really high crime-rates? After all, they did originally come from India's crimepit state) never to be resumed (even under Muzaffarpur-ancestored Musharraf) in manner analogous to Arab refusal to resettle "Palestinians".
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Reply # 127
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 1:34 PM EST
Satan
Then I guess those that attacked the Cole and the Pentagon weren't either--there were military targets, correct? Glad we got that sorted out. Next time someone blows up the Pentagon, I'd expect you not to complain--it is a military target--fair game. Note also that the Zionist "terrorism" also killed innocent civilians so I guess those on board flight AA flight 77 could be seen in the same light--"Collateral damage." Can't have it both ways.
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Reply # 128
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 1:30 PM EST
Shoshana & Akagi
Shoshana, what you say is true and easily found in a good history book, or even on Encarta. I know an Israeli Arab who lives here in the States and he reports that he and his family (who still live there) have always been treated well and had good jobs in Israel. Most Israelis, he claims, have no problem with Arabs. They have problems with militants. There is a difference.

The solution, Akagi, is for both Hamas and Israel to stop lobbing rockets at one another, but as Hamas has lobbed about 8000 rockets into southern Israel in the last three years, it seems they are not able to keep up their end of a cease-fire. It seems rather unfair to ask Israel to put up with that sort of daily attack without retaliating while we do nothing to Hamas for their continued aggression. Yes, yes, closed borders and all that! Israel has a right to protect itself from aggression. If Gaza wants a return to normality with the ability to work in Israel and acquire goods, get rid of Hamas and stop the rocket rain. Then if Israel attacks Gaza, it' their fault, but not until the rocket attacks coming from Gaza have stopped. That's the solution! BOTH sides accept a cease-fire and actually abide by it. I don't think Hamas can do that.
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Reply # 129
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 1:27 PM EST
Why The Wait?
Israel should recruit all to their side and launch an all-out ASAP. Let the chips fall where they may. No more insane than what's been going on forever. There is no Palestine!!
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Reply # 130
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 1:26 PM EST
Shoshana
"Rather than absorb these poor people, the Arabs have let them languish as pawns in appalling conditions."

The reason why is because they don't want to aid in Israel creating facts on the ground. If they accepted them--the country that was usually suggested was Jordan--then Israel would turn around and say there is already a home for the Palestinians--Jordan. The Arabs were unwilling to enable Israel in this way and many Palestinians don't want to live in Jordan or Egypt or Syria either. If NJ became part of Mexico, would you want to live in Canada--after all, Canadians, Americans--what is the difference, you all look the same anyway? Talk the same, Just would mean Canada would get another NBA team and Hockey team and I guess the Giants and Jets would end up in the CFL (hint, there is no 4th down). On the plus side, you get much better beer.

Tim:

We agree. Funny that.
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Reply # 131
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 1:25 PM EST
Akagi
I just fundamentally disagree with that assertion. The United Nations formed Israel in 1948. It occured in the same manner that most land grabs occur --- as a result of conflict (World War 2). Given your claim ("valid claims to land"), we should give all land back to the indians, all land (including Texas) back to Mexico etc etc etc all down throughout history.

The actions of the Palistinians RIGHT NOW are what I take issue with. They (meaning Hamas) purposely target civilians. Israel is not PURPOSELY targeting civilians. That is not to say collateral damage is not occuring. Also Hamas is purposely placing missle installations in residential areas to use their own citizens as human shields.

You are essentially undertaking an "intellectual exercise" to prove Hamas/Palistinians have a "right" to that land.
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Reply # 132
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 1:18 PM EST
Akagi
I am not sure why you posted that to me, or what you wrote, since it's very convoluted.

I do not care for the opinion of anyone who wants to send people into a big oven. I simply seconded Lolo1's post. As to the rest of your post, from what I can make out, it seems rather relativistic. I would counsel you to stick to Pan-Asian history.
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Reply # 133
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 1:15 PM EST
JMind
"That is like saying Christians used to wage holy wars in the crusades."

What exactly is it that I said is like saying that?

And as for stealing, depends where you sit doesn't it? Bunch of Europeans flood your country and you are soon in a refugee camp driven off the land your family has been on for generations--yes, you can make a case for that. If the Mexicans retake the Mexican Cession. If Mexicans (as many of your claim) continue to poor into the old Mexican Cession and then manage to rip it from the US driving Anglos off the land they have had for generations, think you or they wouldn't claim it was stealing.

Yes. The Jews were on that land in the first century and the Mongols were in Poland in the 13th--should Poland become part of Mongolia? The Palestinians have no less a valid claim for the land than they do.

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Reply # 134
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 1:10 PM EST
Myth: Palestinians being "forced" out
I have to respond to the reference to residents of Palestine being forced out of their land. Take a history lesson, please: When Israel declared statehood, the surrounding Arab nations told their brethren in Palestine to get out because they were preparing to destroy the fledgling nation; afterwards, they could return as victors. After the defeat of the invading Arab nations, Israel offered to negotiate for the return of these former residents who had voluntarily left. Not one Arab nation was willing to negotiate with Israel as a political entity, because they refused to recognize its existence. Rather than absorb these poor people, the Arabs have let them languish as pawns in appalling conditions. While Israel extends a welcome to any Jew, anywhere in the world, not one Arab country will accept their fellow Arabs. It is also worth noting that those Arabs who have chosen to remain in Israel have full rights as citizens and probably live a better quality of life than they ever could in an Arab country.
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Reply # 135
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 1:06 PM EST
..............
-----"Now, as to the substance, the historical facts back up Israel. Hamas is a terrorist organization."

Akagi: "So were the Zionists in pre-1948 Palestine."-------

No fool, the Zionists were not terrorists. They attacked British military and military installations. They did not indiscriminately murder and maim random arabs, unlike the arab pogroms towards the Jews.
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Reply # 136
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 1:02 PM EST
..............
--------MYK: "And, statistically, I would be willing to bet that McCarthy, in doing so, was correct MORE OFTEN than the Leftist "fascist"-branders are now."

wrightsrong52: “How would you prove that? With a discussion in your own mind?”-------


wrightsrong52, considering you’re an intellectual ignoramus let me tell you wher you can find your answer of proof: Venona Papers.
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Reply # 137
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 12:59 PM EST
Joel
I agree in part, but it is not just the Palestinians, but the Israelis as well--there are nut cases and hawks on both sides. The best solution would be a multi-ethnic, multi-religious state--call it the Federation of Israel and Palestine (or visa versa--flip a coin to see who is first or play a soccer match, rock, paper, scissors--who cares)--have the flag with three stripes (black white and green and a white canton with a blue Star of David). But the Israelis want a Jewish only state and the Arabs want to see the Jews in the sea--so this is not going to be solved for a long time. In the long run though, demographics may end this as the Israeli Arabs will not too far in the distant future be the majority in Israel and soon after the political power that follows unless Israel wants to create a South Africa and deny the majority their democratic rights--and if they do that it won't end well.

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Reply # 138
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 12:58 PM EST
Agendists Spin This Foreigners Fight !

My Dad came across one of those camps and cut out some men and supplies to aid them ,but kept his column rollin',since he was chasing down enemy forces.

Agendists on both sides are attempting to rewrite history and spin their agendas.

Those Nazi camps were incidental to U.S. Operations in The ETO.Those camps had as many Non-Jewish victims as Jewish victims.

Beyond that,this Palestinian/Israeli Fight is a Foreigner Fight and The United States needs to be a reappraise how it weighs on The National Interests of The United States in The ME Region.
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Reply # 139
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 12:48 PM EST
Akagi
What is your point? That is like saying Christians used to wage holy wars in the crusades. Are you suggesting that Zionists stole Israel for the jews?
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Reply # 140
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 12:45 PM EST
YLG et al
Some deny the Holocaust and others don't. Some make claims like Hilter didn't go far enough. And in any event, no one knows the opinion of the Holocaust the woman who said "Go back to the oven! You need a big oven, that's what you need!"

Also saying the Holocaust was a "big lie" doesn't make the statement that the Israelis are the new Nazis" illogical (not saying I agree with either). You can accept the Nazis were anti-Jewish and did nasty things to them like pushing them into ghettos (which I guess is what many claim Gaza is) and still claim there was no Holocaust. For it to be illogical, you'd have to claim the Nazis were pro-Jewish and then call the Israelis the New Nazis.
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Reply # 141
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 12:40 PM EST
Akagi wrote:
"Like me to remind you the many many Indian Wars the US fought from say 1800 until the 1890s?

And many of the Indians were not the original "owners" either--e.g. the Apaches, the Navajo, the Sioux in much of Nebraska, etc."

As to paragraph #1, I am well aware of the Indian wars that the US fought. The Arabs have also fought several wars over the past 60 years trying to drive Israel out of the Middle East. They lost everyone of them. It's time to accept that Israel is not going away and for the Palestinians so get on with leading productive lives, and let go of the hatred and violent acts fueled by such hatred. That was my point. The Indians fought hard, yes. They lost, yes. They quit reacting with violence and have become part of the civilized world. I'm sure it wasn't easy.

As to paragraph #2, who is the original owner of any land on earth? It would be very hard to discern that. My point is that continued violent acts over decades based upon the idea that your ancestors used to occupy or own some piece of land is to doom yourself to destruction eventually. Why won't the the Palestinians make peace with the Israelis? Haven't they struggled long enough under the false assumption that they'll be able to drive the jews into the sea?
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Reply # 142
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 12:34 PM EST
Money quote for the day:
The distinction goes to our very own Lolo1:

"I find it hilarious and blatantly stupid that these idiots first deny the Holocaust, but then go onto compare the Israelis to the Nazi's. If the Holocaust never happened then there should be no comparison. They over played their hand with their mob mentality."

Talk about Ka-BLAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

;)
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Reply # 143
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 12:28 PM EST
"Terrorists"
"Now, as to the substance, the historical facts back up Israel. Hamas is a terrorist organization."

So were the Zionists in pre-1948 Palestine.
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Reply # 144
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 12:27 PM EST
ulrich s.
The fact that the liberal media gives credence to the Islamofacist leaders by broadcasting and printing their obvious idiotic statements is one of the reasons why articles like this have to be printed.

Give it another 10 years or so, and when the WWII vets and actual holocaust survivors have all passed away, the Liberal / Islamofacist denier machine will kick into high gear.

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Reply # 145
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 12:22 PM EST
Anne
"Are you just an intellectually limited liberal, or insufferably stupid, or certifiably crazy?"

Pretty much blows up your "I don't engage in personal attacks unless attacked first" theory out of the water don't you think? But of course to you there are no such thing as personal attacks against those you aren't in bed with--ideologically speaking.
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Reply # 146
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 12:17 PM EST
sdf
The problem with your and Al Franken's specious argument is there are times when Ann Coulter will act as a satirist and make a derogatory comment about someone (reporter or otherwise) using humor. These types of things don't need to be based soley in fact because they represent her opinion of someone based on her experience.

Then there are the times when she is making an actual assertion about the person that needs to be backed up by facts. That is where she uses the 40 pages of reference to back up the point.

Have read Al Franken's book it is also riddled with lies or exaggerations, which is fine since he is also acting in the capacity of a satirist. The difference I find is that while the media celebrate Franken as a brilliant satirist, they condemn Coulter as mean spirited based soley on the fact that the media agrees with Franken. If you have read anything by Al Franken you would at the very least realize he is AT least as mean spirited as Ann Coulter.

Now, as to the substance, the historical facts back up Israel. Hamas is a terrorist organization.
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Reply # 147
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 12:16 PM EST
Anne
"Visa? Too bad! Visa revoked!
Green Card? Too bad! Green Card revoked!
Citizen? Too bad! Citizenship revoked!"

What a fool you are. First, citizenship. Read Afroyim v. Rusk (1967) some time. The key part of the ruling is US citizenship can not be taken away without consent. Taking away citizenship based on ones religion or protesting would be unconstitutional. Read the 1st Amendment some time. Free exercise thereof, redress of grievances...

Permanent residents--what grounds would you revoke their status? Their religion...protesting. The First Amendment protects them as well.

Non-permanent residents, but holding a valid visa. Revoke visas due to their religion? Again, it would be unconstitutional. As the courts have ruled over and over, the US constitution applies to aliens as well.

And people call me UnAmerican.
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Reply # 148
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 12:10 PM EST
Anne in PA
That would be the MN senate seat.

A MI senate seat would mean that (since I just moved to MI) that Franken would be a Michigan Senator.......which would mean that 2 months from now.......Franken would have an unfortunate hunting accident while he was hunting with Ted Nugent......

Viva la Ted!!!
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Reply # 149
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 12:06 PM EST
what no holocaust
And if not that, how about this is just a little self defense after all they have been getting attacked by hamas rockets and other weapons for how many years?
For those of you that don’t believe in the fact that the holocaust happened then you should talk to (while you still can) some of the few remaining WWII veterans of the war in Europe that took part in the liberating of the POW’s and other prisoners from the camps like (Auschwitz, Dachau, Buchenwald, Ohrdruf forced labor camp). These places were nothing but death camps, where you could be worked to death due to bad medical treatment or just plain lack of food. Then of course you could just be led to the gas chambers or marched into a ditch and shot. But please don’t take my word for it ask a veteran that was there. My father has told us about it and shown us pictures of what it looked like. So you believe what you choose, but I’m going to believe the men that I have had the pleasure of knowing that where there.
Israel on the other hand is just saying enough is enough and doing what is necessary to defend its country and its people.
PS: Dad was in the 3rd Army and was awarded the bronze star with clusters among other medals.
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Reply # 150
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 12:05 PM EST
sdf
Too funny dear sheepherder..........

Quoting a franken book to dispute Coulter......

You do realize that he is the goofiest card in the deck, don't you?? No...you don't..

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Reply # 151
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 12:04 PM EST
NAZI'S:
Right now, these are the real nazi's: http://nfpa.typepad.com/firesafecigarettes/

but there's some thing that may be able to be done about it:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/repeal-fire-safe-cigarette -laws

Please help. Thank you,
Thad Bouchelle
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Reply # 152
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 12:02 PM EST
sdf #77: Oh puh-lease!

Are you just an intellectually limited liberal, or insufferably stupid, or certifiably crazy?

You actually think for a split second that al franken... I repeat, al franken, can be taken with any seriousness at all?

You mean, al franken who claims to have won the MI Senate seat with MORE votes than they had registered voters, and MORE votes than were actually cast? THAT al franken?

If you do, there is no question, the answer to my question, are you intellectually limited liberal, or insufferably stupid, or certifiably crazy? is, "ALL of the above!"
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Reply # 153
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 11:52 AM EST
This is so reprehensible, it's beyond...

description.

Those reprehensible arab/muslims should be sent home...out of the USA. Make them take their irrational hatred home, wherever their "home" is, because it should no longer be the USA.

Visa? Too bad! Visa revoked!
Green Card? Too bad! Green Card revoked!
Citizen? Too bad! Citizenship revoked!


OF COURSE, this will NEVER HAPPEN since we have a pres-elect who is all for "open borders," let everybody and anybody in, and who has stated that he will "stand with the muslims...."

Tom Trento's video:
http://beltwayblips.dailyradar.com/video/pro_hamas_demonstr ation/

As of Jan. 20, 2009, we will be officially "sca-roood!
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Reply # 154
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 11:50 AM EST
Also
It wasn't Hitler who recruited Husseini, but Husseini who approached Hitler to help him in ambition to be Sultan (he wasn't satisfied with Mufti--for which many Arabs in Egypt and Syria considered him unfit due to lack of scholarship--to which the British had appointed him).
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Reply # 155
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 11:42 AM EST
Ignorant Masses
Part of the problem is a lack of interest in and knowledge of history. Most people these days appear to get their education in history from Hollywood and teachers who have a political axe to grind. How many of our young voters know what actually happened in WW2? How many of them know what a Nazi or a fascist is? As shown in the last Presidential election many do not even seem to know what socialism and communism are.

They have grown up hearing conservatives called Nazis and fascists and hearing anyone who opposes socialism or communism being treated as ignorant liars, rednecks and bigots. For those with weak minds the conclusion is obvious; conservatives are a continuation of fascism, while socialism and communism are fine. We desperately need to teach the coming generations how to evaluate what they are being told and how to check the facts for themselves.
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Reply # 156
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 11:40 AM EST
Joel
"History is full of struggles where people were driven of their land and forced into refugee camps, reservations, or other lands. Take our own native Americans. I haven't seen a rocket fired out of a reservation and into a nearby town or city for some time. In fact, what they have done is to build casinos and "legally" take away the white man's money. This has proven to be far more effective for them than had they been launching rocket attacks at the pale faces settlements.

Besides, the Palestinians were not the original owners of said property either. They did happen to be the current residents when Israel was formed, that much is true."

Like me to remind you the many many Indian Wars the US fought from say 1800 until the 1890s?

And many of the Indians were not the original "owners" either--e.g. the Apaches, the Navajo, the Sioux in much of Nebraska, etc.

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Reply # 157
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 11:32 AM EST
Birds of a feather
I'm with the other reader from Alabama - Why is it neccessary to explain the obvious - Most half way intelligent people realize that Hamas and the Arabic biased news media are trying to peddle a load of crap!
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Reply # 158
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 11:26 AM EST
40 pgs of Reference
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Reply # 159
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 11:25 AM EST
Time for Israel to get rid of Gaza
This is the reason why General Dwight D. Eisenhower,United States Army ETO Commander ordered our US Army photographers to photograph all the murderous acts by the Nazis for history because in his own words " some SOB will say it never happened"
Thank you, President Eisenhower.
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Reply # 160
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 11:23 AM EST
One more factoid for Taft
Guess where the idea for Hitler's "yellow star" ID'ing of Jews came from--Haj-amin Husseini!
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Reply # 161
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 11:23 AM EST
sdf
Man....you are batting a thousand at missing the point.

Go tend to your sheep.......
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Reply # 162
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 11:22 AM EST
Looks like you missed a keyword Taft
I did specify the word "coincidental" similarity between Islamic rule and Nazism.

Also, you stated " Yes, the Nazis propagandized and recruited many Muslims. But so did our allies; we had muslims fighting for us, and the Nazis were pretty scared of them."

Note that there was little propagandisation required here, as most of the Allied Muslims were from South Asia as British-Indian Army troops and officers (albeit few promoted above Major prior to 1945).

More notes:
(*) "Operation Searchlight" was ordered by one of these Allied Muslims, Yahya Khan (graduated class-of-37 from Dehra Dun) and implemented by three others (Tikka Khan, class-of-40; Amir Abdullah Khan Niazi, class-of-38; Rao Farman Ali, class-of-42)
(*) Zia graduated class-of-45 from Dehra Dun
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Reply # 163
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 11:20 AM EST
svpallava
The Nazis also supported Zionism too, does that make the Israelis Nazis as well?
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Reply # 164
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 11:20 AM EST
wrongsrong52 #14: re McCarthy was correc

MORE OFTEN....

wrong's response, "Or did you use one of Ann Coulter's books as your source?"

Actually, not a bad diversionary attempt. But yes, as a matter of fact... Try "Treason" where Coulter has 46 PAGES of notes and annotations of sources and FACTS.

You might want to try reading some actual FACT BASED and RESEARCHED material, now and then. No telling what you'll LEARN! :-)

Unless, of course, you prefer to run around with your hands over your ears, shouting, "La la la la.... I can't hear you. "La la la la.... I can't hear you. "La la la la.... I can't hear you. "
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Reply # 165
Date: Jan 7, 2009 - 1