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Wednesday, September 17, 2008
John Stossel :: Townhall.com Columnist
Barack Obama and White Privilege
by John Stossel
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Complaints about racism still dominate media discussion of the disparity between black and white success. Comedian Chris Rock tells white audiences, "None of ya would change places with me! And I'm rich! That's how good it is to be white!"

I assumed that the success of Barack Obama, as well as thousands of other black Americans and dark-skinned immigrants -- many of whom thrive despite language problems -- demonstrates that America today is largely a colorblind meritocracy. But a white campus lecturer, Tim Wise, gets tremendous applause from students by saying things like, "[W]hite supremacy and privilege continue to skew opportunities hundreds of years after they were set in place" and in America, "meritocracy is as close to a lie as you can come." His message is in demand -- he is invited to more than 80 speaking engagements a year.

But black writer Shelby Steele argues that whites do blacks no favors wringing their hands about white privilege.

"I grew up in segregation," Steele told me. "So I really know what racism is. I went to segregated school. I bow to no one in my knowledge of racism, which is one of the reasons why I say white privilege is not a problem."

Steele claims, "the real problem is black irresponsibility. ... Racism is about 18th on a list of problems that black America faces."

Whites' preoccupation with guilt and compensation such as affirmative action is actually a subtle form of racism, writes Steele in his book "White Guilt". "One of the things that is clear about white privilege, and so many of the arguments for diversity that pretend to be compensatory, is that they advantage whites. They make the argument that whites can solve [black people's] problems. ... The problem with that is ... you reinforce white supremacy. ... And black dependency.

"White privilege is a disingenuous idea," he adds. In fact, now there is "minority privilege."

"If I'm a black high school student today, there are white American institutions, universities, hovering over me to offer me opportunities. Almost every institution has a diversity committee. Every country club now has a diversity committee. I've been asked to join so many clubs, I can't tell you. ... I don't have to even look for opportunities in many cases, they come right to me."

Of course, there is still racism in America. At ABC News we've aired hidden-camera video showing sales clerks spying on black customers, cab drivers passing blacks to pick up whites and employers favoring white-sounding names.

Steele says those are minor problems.

"The fact is," he adds, "we got a raw deal in America. We got a much better deal now. But we can't access it unless we take ... responsibility for getting there ourselves."

He makes good points. White privilege does still exist, but Barack Obama's success is more evidence that it's not the whole story. There are plenty of people in America who want to vote for someone because he is black. Or female.

It's not politically correct to say that. Hillary Clinton supporter Geraldine Ferraro said she wouldn't have been nominated for vice president in 1984 were she not a woman and that Obama would not have been doing so well were he not black. "Could I have said ... his experience is what puts him there? No. Could I say because his stand on issues have distinguished him? No ... If Obama were a white man, he would not be in this position. ... He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept."

For saying that, she was repeatedly called racist. The heat got so intense, Ferraro had to resign from Clinton's finance committee, and Clinton disavowed her remarks.

There is black privilege -- and white privilege. It's time to stop complaining about past discrimination and to treat people as individuals, not as members of a certain race.

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About The Author
John Stossel blogs at http://blogs.abcnews.com/johnstossel/ is an award-winning news correspondent and author of Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity: Get Out the Shovel--Why Everything You Know is Wrong.
 
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Debonair is just wrong...
Debonair writes in a post about how whites have the benefit of what white ancestors have provided whites so whites are a step ahead of blacks. This is bull and I would suggest he read a bit of American history along with seeing other ethnic groups succeed instead of making excuses. There are plenty of people from all cultures who have come to America and made something of themselves. This includes people of color who were not born here. The biggest group of whiners is those blacks who had ancestors in slavery. If a black person (or person of any race/ethnic background) can emigrate here and become successful through the American dream why can not blacks whose ancestry goes back generations? The answer is self pity and looking for someone else to blame for their own failings. This is the thinking that empowers the Democratic Party and this is why the Democratic Party must be stopped at all costs!

True Racists are Democrats
This article is spot on. The true racists are those who complain about racism and see a racist under ever rock or with every criticism they do not agree with. These true racists come from the left and the Democratic Party. You can say Obama is not qualified to be president (an accurate statement) and you will be called a racist. There will also be those out there who do not like you for your color, for your religion or if you are too short or the wrong sex. You can not legislate against stupidity. The greatest battle against any racism is to stop complaining and make something of your life. We all have challenges we must overcome. The true test of someone’s character is how we approach these challenges. I can tell you it is not Obama or the Democratic Party who understands American values or will ensure we become the best we can be.

Hawaiians Speak out
All this talk of suffrage, I feel compelled place our rung in the ladder of discrimination. Hawaiians have suffered greatly. We were happy to exist on our tiny islands in grass skirts and coconut bikini tops. All that was taken away and our gathering of grass huts was turned into a popular vacation destination.
I can point to recent discrimination. The all-white Bradys took a vacation to Hawaii. When plans went awry, they blamed a tiki statue. If that isn’t an indictment of our entire race, I don’t know what is.
Hawaiian males, unable to look past racial stereotypes, only find employment at local eateries juggling fire torches or as linemen in the NFL. We return home, forced to consume fried SPAM (I realize we actually go and purchase the stuff, but I take no blame due to my racial predilections).
Where is our white guilt? Remember people, every time you vacation in Hawaii, another can of SPAM is bought.
Let’s be serious, we know the Hawaiians were not to blame for the Brady fiasco. The tiki statue…was made in China.

So I am only 1/4 Hawaiian. Trust me, the 1/4 is pretty steamed. The 1/2 Caucasian feels pretty guilty about the whole affair. The 1/4 Hispanic…he’s napping right now.

In ending, I’d like to state one thing. Anything I have accomplished, I would rather earn than have a feeling it was given to me.

Right on
It's about time somebody said what everyone else was thinking. If everybody stopped being so afraid and just said what the feel, America would be a stronger place.

It's a free country


Nobody denies Chris Rock's rights to make a living portraying himself as cool, and openly saying the most obscene things. In fact, it's all over the place; even many woman comics are serial offenders.

He is funny sometimes. And I certainly don't hold it against him that he's black. The biggest flaw I see in the guy is,

He's doing that schtick helping Barack Obama. There's this unspoken BS about Obama in the media and show biz world;

. . . how it's more impressive than his politics to have a Chris Rock or Barbra Streisand working for him. To present Oprah, Chris Rock, et al, as cool supporters of his, is plainly false advertising, and adds to his demagoguery. Next he'll have the little green lizard from Geiko ads representing him and telling obscene jokes about Bush and Cheney.

This is the sick under-bottom of today's political pander. Chris Rock is just one of the gross rats.


Chris Rock
Cut Chris a little slack, he lays it on blacks pretty well sometimes, particularly when he gets into what I'll euphemistically call "black folk ways." He is not blind, as are so many "black-is-my-profession" politicians, entertainers, and talk show panelists. And Chris is funny, which is more than be said for those in the foregoing list of "black-is-my profession" practitioners.

Debonair


Heavy thinks you're Heavy.

White Previlege


Debonair you'll like this.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ONuBBmRRpM

For Dave 2 and A New Level
cont'd...To rap this all up, I'm not saying black people are not responsible for their own actions but many whites don't see the advantage the have had in the past and how that effects them today.

So, because it’s so many whites with this shared knowledge, you get the benefit of the doubt because people assume you know about it. An example, if you was picking a basketball team & didn’t know anything about the players, you had black, white, and Asian players. Who would u pick first and who will u pick last? Most people would pick the black players over the white ones and the white ones over the Asians ones because u just assume the black players know how to play. The black players that don’t know how to play get the benefit of the doubt over whites and Asians that do know. That’s exactly what white privilege is in this country.

For Dave2 and A New Level
You guys are like a lot of whites. You don't count all the benefits you receive from pass discrimination or a better way to put it the benefits that blacks didn't receive because of pass discrimination.

You benefit from accumulate knowledge. How many white people’s grandparents bought their first home and pension plan, were the first to go college after WWII because of the strength of union jobs, access to Federal loans for homes and a college education through the GI Bill.

So many of you learn about pensions, mortgages or you got your home down payment from your parents, or your parents was able to send you to college because they took out a second mortgage on the GI Bill home or the equity in those type homes built up over the years homes because they were denied access to buy a home in certain areas. Many black people were denied a whole generation of advancement just because of Jim Crow & other discrimination.

All of these things have accumulated effects over time. This knowledge was pass on to the white baby boomers and then on to their kids today. It was this advantage that lead to affirmative action in the first place.


To akagi
"There is an Asian-American history month. But you've never even heard of it I bet, but everyone knows African-American History Month because the media crams it down our throat each February (at least it is the shortest month). "

The problem is this: most folks agree that great evils done to human beings should be remembered. However, if the plentitude of words focused on the ills done to one group, results in a utter dearth of attention to others, then there is something wrong.


Asian-American History
Karen:

There is an Asian-American history month. But you've never even heard of it I bet, but everyone knows African-American History Month because the media crams it down our throat each February (at least it is the shortest month).

It is in May if you were curious and the official title is Asian/Pacific American Heritage Month. May was picked because it is the month that Japanese first came to the US and the railroad linking east and west was completed and much of the work on that railroad was done by Chinese.


Asian-American History Month
During this election, we've heard so, so much about black interests and problems. I would like to see other minorities spoken about much more. How about Asian-Americans? They don't protest, make demands, or complain. They're not represented on TV news shows hardly at all. They're hardly ever represented in movies except martial arts movies. Yet they feed us in hundreds of thousands of oriental restaurants throughout this country. They have made huge contributions to technology, science, and math. Their children take school very seriously and achieve throughout high school and college. And yet, many of them were virtual slaves in our country's history as they did so much labor in our mines and the building of our railroads.

P.S.
No Irish need apply.

Poverty and struggle are universal,and no one race has a monopoly on them.

Take a good look in the mirror. Set some goals for yourself. Reach them. Smile. (and finally) Laugh at all those who told you "you couldn't".

Affirmative action is an insult.

Can't we all just get along???
O.K. boys & girls, this is important so pay attention. THAT MEANS YOU

"Affirmitive action" is another way to say what?

If you're not white then there's something wrong with you. Therefore us white people will play nice and let everyone else into our clubs, schools & places of work...All Because You Don't Have The Ability To Do It Yourselves Without Our Help.

Do you get it? Liberals want to keep blacks down & subservant. Conservatives want everyone: white, black, orange, plaid, green with a touch of purple TO SUCCEED. TO RISE UP AND LIVE THEIR DREAMS & RAISE THEIR FAMILIES. TO MAKE A BETTER LIFE FOR THEMSELVES.(God forbid):)

To heavydoug
"I am usually not that mean spirited, but I hate stuck up people who can't respect the next man's struggle."

The problem lies partly in differing concepts of what 'respecting the next man's struggle' means.
For instance, you effectively claimed that NOBODY in America EVER had it as hard as EVERY slave. But until you've starved, until you've been blown up with dynamite while working on the railroad, you don't really have any foundation on which to base that judgement. You simply assume, because you've been told so, that everybody else in America had it easy compared to black folks.

That is the way to 'respect' your own struggle while denying everybody else's.

It is NOT 'disrepecting the other guy's struggles' to recognize that other people had lousy circumstances, too. It is not disrespect to confess that no, America does NOT owe all its wealth to any single group.

Previous Post
How strange. Something I posted elsewhere showed up here. Sorry 'bout that.

heavydoug
"The Country's life is longer than ours.. but if it our Country, we celebrate our good things and accept resposibilty for the bad."

Done. Now, what the he|| are you whining about?

R.A.M.
"It is good sometimes to go inside the internet's confederate trailer park"

No bigotry there.

And y'all think we don't get irony.

I hear ya, Dave


Man, you're talking to one who was not born with a silver spoon in his mouth. He never even SAW one during his lifetime.

But in case you thought I was branding you a racist; NO. Why would I?

I know in Doug's hood, they'd perceive you as Whitey. If they saw you calling one of theirs dung, that would seal the deal.

Names can be just as damning as prejudice. I'm usually a feisty enough guy. I'll use a derogatory name versus the kind of person who comes here from gay pride, or a leftist.

In cases of race, though that's just too incendiary. Better to err on the side of gentility. Even challenging the Chris Rock and Spike Lee Bozos. Speaking for myself; I'm never disarmed because I take a kinder approach.

dreadnaught
I was attempting to explain my pov. It seems you mis-interpreted my intent.

I fully acccept that people can succeed but that they are their own worst enemies at times. I have never advocated harm to anyone nor have I said that people shouldn't have access to opportunity

But if my failing as a human is that I have little patience for those who chose pity parties so be it.

I understand your points but doubt that others in the victim business would understand or appreciate your message.

I at least delude myself with the belief I am open to change and can adjust my thinking. That I lose patience with some who cry the same tune only points out the experiences I have had in life.

to start a war

Historically there's a never-ending condition in the world that punishes us with wars and terror.

One man or group of men turn into cold neighbors. At first only indifferent to the pain a neighbor feels. The usual impatience and lack of sympathy. Then contempt.

They turn away in disgust. Much like we in the U.S. have acted about illegal aliens. It descends into open hate.

Then we see a natural outcome of such feelings. The OTHER man is either harmed deliberately (lynch mobs, the KKK--) or casually hated and demonized. "Just bums!"

When Christ was in Jerusalem, the scribes and Pharisees at first confronted Him. They were condescending and superior, since they had no idea WHO had sent Him. He even looked like a BUM, to them. They began to openly hate Him. That led to plotting in secret.

They ended up demonizing Jesus; accusing Him of evils, as if He were a criminal. He "had a devil," or healed the sick by the power of Beelzebub. To them, He didn't deserve pity. They saw Him as an enemy of God!

Then they crucified Him. And they mocked and hated Him as His life was bleeding away on the cross.

Every war begins by hating another person or group. Nazis against Jews, demonizing them in public. Defaming and telling the German people they were sub-human. Then murdering millions.

Disgust and hatred --- Prejudice & discrimination --Demonize and curse the enemy --Kill him, harm him in any way possible, but always with an inner assurance that he's a devil who needs to be stamped out. He deserves to die. All unjust wars begin with that disgraceful feeling of disrespect and indifference to the pain in another man's heart.

Dear Dave:
You protested yesterday that you didn't need lectures, then you give us all another lecture.

You aren't suddenly revealing anything we didn't know going back for decades. So please stop the self-indulgence. God knows why this fellow is suffering this incredible let-down. You can be a friend or a supercilious white man. He's met your kind all his life, it doesn't mean a thing to him. If you were in his place you might find the inner strength so many good blacks have found. All of them aren't in that same sink of self-pity; they try harder for the sake of their children and their people. Others like Heavydoug are taught to hate white men forever; ALL white men, even those who love them. It's part of their syndrome of despair. If you express nothing but hatred and contempt for a man like Heavydoug, it reinforces his despair. Because he's a soul filled with self-loathing.

I'll explain something in the post that follows:

Dave2
Whites cannot be blamed for any bad choices that too many of the black community make for themselves.

When I read articles by obviously educated people of the black race, and when I listen to many people of that same race speak as the intelligent and educated people they are, I sometimes wonder how the "blame whitey" folks view them.

I've read it often enough to believe that a black student dedicated to doing well has been accused of "acting white". Very likely,
successful black adults are looked upon the same way.

dreadnaught
In order to be a racist implies being in a position of power over others. I have no power over others and have never participated in or witnessed blatant racism from any white.

There are a myriad of laws and statutes to punish anyone practicing racism against any citizen.

My perspective is that I have called him on his whining about all who oppose his candidate are at heart racist which is patently false.

Society is best served when all are productive members of the society. I have yet to meet anyone who believes that blacks are incapable of taking charge of their own lives. But like everything in life kyou only get out what you put in.

But with hs dropout rates approaching 70% in the inner city and the notion that getting an education is acting white and must be avoided it is hard to see anything other than blacks are their own worse enemies.

If anyone turned the school districts over to the kkk I doubt they would have been as destructive to the process than the blacks who are running them.

But at what point do blacks move on and take charge of their own lives. The idea that blacks are incapable of learning or are destined to only work in mcdonalds does not come from whites and their attitudes towards blacks but rather black attitudes about there is no reason to prepare for one's own future.

But closing in on 45 years of johnson's great society we have very little to show for the $44 trillion that has been spent on various entitlement programs, an insulting use of words, to ease the effects of poverty and segregation.

At what point can society expect to see real change. And at what point will blacks realize that as a group they can achieve. That I am tired of hearing these false charges of racism does no make me a racist only a citizen who would like to see some return on the investment and blacks taking charge of their own lives without relying on govt handouts and set aside programs.

You argue like a loser


By going this mean-spirited route you impress every black American who might read here as the typical dirty racist. Was that the cause you were interested in helping?

If so, go ahead. Be destructive. It's easy from where you are, alone and anonymous somewhere in Ohio. But you seem to forget; you're a representative of white people. You make a difference when a black man sees your open hatred. It's something he won't forget. The sorry part is you could have been a gentleman and served up some good counsel. Doug sure needs it. All he sees in you is the enemy.

End of lecture; and I hope you haven't rejected it already this minute. Because I give you credit for brains.

dreadnaught
I don't need anyone to lecture me about what I post to a hater and whiner like heavy dung as in full of excrement.

For weeks he has been spewing his hatred of whites and telling all who disagree with him that they are stupid or blatant racists.

I for one am fed up with the victim mentality having spent a lifetime of working 50-60 hours a week and resent anyone telling whites that we owe this great debt to blacks who have made their own problems.

His nonsense that only blacks have been victims and that no other people have suffered to the degree that he claims blacks have is pure bunkum.

I don't think anyone is being deprived an opportunity to succeed in this country but I resent being lectured that whites are wealthy because blacks did all the work while whites stole the profits.

But the victim mentality will probably never stop being a part of the black mantra. But as long as blacks believe they are victims they will continue to fail.

And b hussein continuing to bring up race and that to oppose him is a sign of racism is more of the same victim mentality. But since the media's messiah is, 50% white and 42% arab it seems strange that he and his acolytes still maintain he is black and it is an insult to america's intelligence they still feel the need to mention this.

But my opposition to the messiah is his politics. My opposition to heavy dung is his victim mentality

Wake UP!!
I have read several of the posts. Katrine was the STATES job first. There is law that the Federal Government not put in. Bush called the Governor 2 days before and REQUESTED that she make plan to get the people out. SHE and MAYOR decided not to. If you remember the photos there where around 100 school buses sitting there and could have been used. The STATE made a BIG mistake and the Federal Government had to over ride and try to clean up the STATES mess. I figure that the STATE did it for Federal money . You see New Orleans was given money for repairs large sums of money and could not account for it. The Federal Government won't say another word about it because of RACISM. So there again the tax payers cover. The working tax payers have been paying for RACISM long enough. It is time that Blacks stand up for their selfves and get jobs and be useful part of the Country. Don't let the Dems do this to you again. KEEP YOU DOWN AND THROW YOU TAX PAYER MONEY. They want you on their side and in your place. I am a Repub. and have feel that way. You can work and success in this COuntry.
I know because I am a women in my 60's and I had to fight my way too.

Dave has to back off


Until a certain level of understanding for the other guy; respect for whatever he says even if you hate it--

Until we deny ourselves and admit another person is human, he's sincere--

--The dialogue is poisonous. It kills.

I dislike giving opponents names that denote contempt. A silly one or ironic, sure. But HEAVY DUNG; it's too contemptuous. Dave has his points to make. But he isn't supposed to talk down. Not to a pig or a dog. He's talking to men. Stop that stuff, Dave.

I say Doug has some growing up to do ahead.

His candidate in this election is sure to crash and burn. Obama doesn't have the goods!

But another one is coming with the qualifications. It's just a rain check this time. Until that one I would wish the African American community would keep the faith. Keep the faith and raise up somebody cool who can walk the walk, not only talk the talk. We're not hoping to avoid it just because we're white people. We keep the faith too. All of us are brothers.

heavydung
I could care less what your world view is. I see you as nothing more than a whining loser.

That blacks ruin their lives while a tragedy for society means nothing to me. I have done enough with my life that I don't need to worry what you think you know about me.

The day I need any loser like you to do anything for me hasn't happened and never will. Unlike you and the losers you claim to speak for I don't need the govt to make my life work.

And this presumption you have carried anybody is a sad delusion that you are actually somebody. But like many of the trolls that show up you think just being here wins your arguments.

Point in fact trying to convince others than you have accomplished is a sad joke. I not only consider you irrelevant but post just to annoy and tick you off.

But I doubt you give any thought to the plight of black folks. I think it is just a ploy to get out your frustrations that you are unhappy with your life and can't stop blaming others for your own failures.

But I am not the only one who views you are a loser, a whiner and a clueless troll who has no understanding of history but reinvents to make yourself feel better while accusing others of being more of a hater than you are.

My guess is the real depression will set in when your messiah loses big time come november. There just aren't enough blacks and college educated libs to give him the presidency. Plus the country has never taken a liking to those exploiting the victim mentality

Anyway

Despite Dave the great white man,

There is a simple analogy that explains what is gooing on with black people.

The analogy is a highway.

If the highway was African people before slavery then it was just going along at it's pace.

Then slavery caused a huge traffic jam.

When you are in a traffic jam and they move the accident to the side, does the traffic just start flowing again?

No. It take a while for traffic to get back up to speed. And there will be a slow spot where the accident was for some time.

So that where blacks are now. The main impediments have been removed but it will just take more time for everyone to get up to speed.

Dave 2


What a negative, sad post. What you say, and your view of the world leads to.. despair.

I don't care about changing your mind or you as a person. I only hope you have not reproduced.

If I and Condoleeza are both playing the victim card by merely explaining the current state of affairs then you are playing the Idiot card.

You are weakling that guys like me have to carry on their backs.

While you cry like you're doing now.

RACISM....?? .....just "axe" THEM.
I am just as much of a racist as JESSE, MICHELLE, AL and BARACK.



Humans.. any other species would have been put to sleep by now.

heavydung
you continue to post this nonsense that blacks have made america wealthy. Exactly how did plantation types of skills limited to working on the plantation and functionally illiterate make all this money that was stolen.

If blacks were so industrious in the past what happened. All we see is cry babies like you crying that only blacks have been victims and nobody understands hardships but blacks and nobody has been persecuted but blacks.

Since some $44 trillion has been spent to alleviate the effects of poverty and segregation post figures that prove those picking cotton and working on farms ever produced even a fraction of that figure

The only people crying victimization is blacks. But if blacks are content to lead the lives of second class citizens that is their business. But being functionally illiterate isn't the road to success.

But this notion of being a man is a pathetic joke. You are nothing but a whining loser. You keep insisting whites owe blacks but you deny that that 400,000 whites who died to end slavery made a sacrifice. What of their families who had to survive without their loved ones.

In the land of opportunity blacks as a group remain losers. And you epitomize this thinking. But continuing to blame whites for black failure remains a fruitless exercise. Other than white libs I doubt many americans really give a rat's rear end that blacks throw away their lives.

heavydung
you have not evolved in the least. You have remained a victim who hates whites living today for events in the past.

But it was your ancestors not mine who sold others to the arabs for slavery. What we got was the trash that was either too stupid or too lazy to protect themselves from other tribes or their own family

But we see how well the blacks in any inner city thrive under the mentality of being victims. I guess that fully explains the high rates of illiteracy, the high crime rates, the high numbers of blacks in prison who committing crimes and the popularity of the gangsta culture with teaches blacks to hate others.

But who made you the spokeswoman for all these victims you constantly cry about. And exactly what debt is owed to these layabouts content in their ignorance and their lack of working to do something with their lives.

Why have blacks threatened violence if their messiah didn't get the nomination. When b hussein loses in november there are predictions of more civil disorder and rioting.

But with you it always the same thing. Blacks are permanent victims who like children can't take of themselves. But you have yet to prove one instance where you have been the victim of racism or have seen it occur.

But like all those living in a world of denial you imagine white boogeymen are conspiring to keep black folks in their place.

You call white people idiots for not accepting your truth. But if we call you and your people shiftless, lazy, parasitesand stupid for their lifestyle they live it is due to our racism not that your fellow blacks have wasted the opportunities given.

But you will continue to blow hot air, prove you are the hater and nothing more than a loser who enables victimization.;

But no amount of money will ever make blacks into responsible citizens. And nothing whites can do will ever stop you from hating us. So stop the pretense you are open minded.

larry22


I was that democratic boy on the south side of Chicago.

Now I'm a Independent man on the south side of Chicago.

I'm not advocating reparations.

I'm just fed up with all the perfect white people WHINING that black people aren't what they want them to be.

That's not realistic and it's not productive.

It is what it is. It's one of the things that America has to deal with.

Plus welfare is a drop in the bucket compared to what Black people have contributed to this nation.

You Babies.

So stop whining and playing the victim.

heavydoug, what have you done for...
blacks in America? Other than feel sorry for them, what have you done? What can you do? Can you make them go to school? Can you make the white hire them? Can you stop racism against them in America? You and white America basically can't do anything for them at this point except to treat them like all human beings should be treated.

If reparations are paid, should reparations be paid to every incoming generation? Or, should there be a cut off date for who receives reparations? Then, later generations will complain that they still experience the negative effects of racism. Won't they deserve reparations, too? Perhaps every black living today should receive $2 million in slave pay. Then, every black born in the future should also receive $2 million at birth. Will that settle the score? What if blacks foolishly spend their $2 million? Should they get a second bite of the reparations apple and get another $1 million?

There is no way humanly possible to correct past injustices.

heavydoug, one thing about human history, it isn't fair and life isn't fair. And, life will never be fair. Therefore, life is what you make it. Man has been very bad to his fellow man throughout human history. At some point a person must do what they can to overcome what has happened to them and do the best they can.

heavydoug, I know it feels good to be superior to others because you have this heavy heart for blacks ... but how does your heavy heart help a young black boy in the democrat urban of Chicago make a better life for himself? Unless the young black boy decides to make a better life for himself?

Dave 2

You have not evolved much farther than those ancestors apparently.

What a stupid thing to say.

once a marine
we remember the past to avoid making the same mistakes and to understand what occurred. But living in the past prevents us from moving forward.

Many folks have tales of woe concerning events in either their lives or the lives of family from the past but focusing on those things prevents you from making the most of the here and now.

I could sing a tale of woe, but to what effect. I can accept the tragedies of others and understand their regrets of past events. But I can't accept people using what happened generations ago as an excuse not to make the best use of today.

My ancestors once wore animal hides and hunted with spears but I don't see it as a tragedy that had to kill in order to eat. And I am sure they also went to war against the tribe in the next valley but understand that was for survival and not because they loved war


Anyone


Want to help LuLu?

LuLu


You're joking right.

Vikings?


Let's get down to it, LuLu.


If it's not the aftershocks of slavery that blacks in America are experiencing what is it?


The victim mentality? Maybe you think we are inferior? Oh, maybe it's welfare?

Maybe you know more than me, and Condoleeza Rice about being black.

Heck, silly me, I should have known YOU have all the answers.


So please, tell me, what is me people's problem?

ditto
.
ditto, ditto, ditto.

Let me count the ways.

Well, it has all been said, but I wanted John to get an out in the open vote for a well written and accurate article.

Gee, will they ever learn.??.

How many generations have to go by for someone to get the idea. The idea that rewards are directly proportional to effort.

Not for each individual mind you, but they certainly are for the group.
.
.

HeavyDog writes
Did not answer the question LuLu.


Selling one's family members may cause a unique psycological deformity...hmmm?

I'm going to answer this one question and then disengage as another poster suggested.

As all people have been enslaved at some point and had their family members sold why don't we see similar rates of family dysfunction among Jews, Slavs, Irish etc. You do know that the Vikings took Irish and Slav women as slaves and that many of the one's kept by the Vikings (not sold to the Arabs) were kept as sex slaves and that any children they conceived in the Norse country were killed at birth because they would be another mouth to feed. (I'd call that psychologically traumatizing, but what do I know I'm just a woman and women have always been treated so well throughout history -- why look at how great it is to be a woman in Muslim countries in 2008 boy are they living well)

Get off the victim train -- seriously humans have been viscious to each other since the before recorded history and every ethnic group has been victimized but to use the victimization of ancestors as an excuse is foolish and self-destructive.

Actually



I am usually not that mean spirited, but I hate stuck up people who can't respect the next man's struggle.

Black people in this country have been heroic and tragic.

As have Asians, Irish and every other group.

Who can sit up on a wall and pass judgement?

You may not know everything, you know.


Whenever you see some person you think is just beneath you.. a homeless man, a prostitute, just think:

Who would you be and who would they be if you switched parents?

To heavydoug
A good evening to you, as well, neighbor.

re: Al
". . he cites the Republican Bible on race affairs by way of Shelby Steele. Take it from ONE African American who says what Conservatives want to hear, which of course makes him the foremost authority on the Black condition in America."

I guess you must really hate Bill Cosby too.

I'm sure the real sign of intelligence is to follow "camera chasers" sharpton & jackson.


Tallilong


Have a nice evening.

LuLu


Did not answer the question LuLu.


Selling one's family members may cause a unique psycological deformity...hmmm?

Final to heavydoug
"You have a theory, I have reality."

You have been utterly unable to support your 'reality' with historical fact. The rest of us have repeatedly supported our 'theories' with fact.

Tell me, doug, what do you call a theory which is supported by demonstrated facts? What do you call a 'reality' with is based on nothing but supposition and myth?

"Don't need to read it."

Of course you don't. This is representative of your whole philosophy: "I don't care about facts -- I know the TRUTH"

I leave to you the question of how enlightened your philosophy is.

Tallilong


I..I..I challenge you to a deul!




ROTFLMAO



How dare you!


LOL

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To Lulu
Don't bother to continue the discussion with heavydoug. He has fled into the final refuge of the loser -- he insults everyone and buries his head in the sand so that he doesn't have to see his own sorry state.

You can't beat someone who has no shame at his own obvious disgrace.

Regrettably, he displays nothing but ignorance about history, and won't heed any factual information that would drive him out of that paradise of the mentally lazy -- his cherished stereotypes.


Tallilong


Don't need to read it.

Two different countries, two different circumstances.

You want have some theoretical debate on slave economics and it's silly.

Free labor is free labor.

Plus, it happened. You have a theory, I have reality.


To heavydoug
Every single position you have staked out has been demolished. Every question that you THOUGHT would clench your case, backfired (like the one on the Chinese bringing their wives).

If you wish to call that 'victory', be my guest.

But it is your stooping to adolescent name-calling that proves the case: you lost, on the basis of fact, so now you call names.

Even children know that the loser calls names. The winner doesn't have to.

If you want to behave like a spoiled little boy, be my guest. You don't even have sufficient sense of pride and honor to be ashamed of your behavior, so remonstrating with you can hardly be worthwhile.

Good night.

heavydoug writes
akagi
Comparing any Chinese or Irish shows how much depth you lack.
For instance:
The most important element in human developement is their family.
Slaves were bred Akagi.
How many of your Asian ancestors came home to find their children sold?

The Chinese weren't allowed to bring their wives or any Chinese women over -- so they didn't get to have children at home. The Chinese also were forced to do the most dangerous jobs because they were considered disposable and many died.

As for the Irish in the early days the scotch-Irish were sent here as indentured servants and because they had to be freed after so many years the plantation owners literally worked them to death because they knew they couldn't keep them forever. Black slaves had the saying Thank God we're not Irish because there treatment on the plantations was so much worse.

You are grossly uninformed.

It is you that are grossly uninformed. The enslavement of blacks by people in the US was atrocious but many people suffered the same treatment in this country -- not to mention slavery has happened in almost every corner of the earth and almost every ethnicity has been enslaved.

To heavydoug
"Just google "slavery prosperity America" and start reading."

Okay.

http://www.climatechangefraud.com/content/view/974/218/

The above contains an interesting quote from Robert Kennedy pointing out that England's economic growth accelerated with the abolition of slavery.

akagi


What a loser.

To Sophie
"can someone please tell the Palin camp to shut the hell up with all their manufactured outrage over imagined sexism????!!!"

I will say this one thing to you, before reverting to ignoring you like I generally do:
we might be willing to tell the Palin camp to shut up over imagined sexism, if you'll go back in time and tell Senator Clinton the same thing, back when The Boys started playing too rough with her, and she had to send her Big Strong Man onto TV to protect her.
Because you SURE weren't heeding you own words then, were you?

Back to oblivion for you, now.

Because I am not
"Cowardly not admit you got it wrong."

Wrong that is. But as they say never argue with a fool, he will bring you don't to his level and beat you with experience.

Tallilong


Still you fail to learn.


Are you wearing your helmet, T. Are you waiting on the short bus?

Did you disagree with Condi?

Guess she was playing the victim card.

And you are too stupid to know you lost.

One last thing
Dougie, in case you were unaware. This is the 146 anniversary of the Battle of Antietam the bloodiest single day in US history and which would lead to Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation five days later on the 22nd which would lead to ending of slavery at the wars end with the ratification of the 13th Amendment--ironically Georgia giving it enough states for ratification (December 6, 1865).

I think blacks were given plenty of reprations on the fields and rocky faces of places like Shiloh, Antietam, Fredricksburg, Gettysburg, New Hope Church, Kennesaw Mtn, and the like.

Don't you? I think 600,000 dead can be considered payment in full don't you?


why isn't obama an uncle tom?


The ghetto toughs and Black Muslims like to label those black people who earn their respect instead looking to hate, like Clarence Thomas and Michael Steele--
Label them Uncle Toms.

You can call a man a Tom, and make him ashamed he worked himself up from the hood. But he has been strong, not weak. If being strong and on your own feet makes you a Tom, being a whining, hating kid all your life makes you-- What? --A loser! You might as well say Obama is a Tom.

The trouble with him is, he's no leader.

To heavydoug
"Who do any of you people think you are? Like you know someone else's problems and when they should solve them."

We are the ones who have read history. We are the ones who have steadily demolished, using historical fact and reason, every single false or exagerrated stereotype you have vomited up. Further, we have done it *without* denying the very real evils that have been done to blacks in this nation.

But you don't want a balanced view, and you certainly don't want members of other races daring to voice opinions and, yes, factual knowledge about slavery. You are trapped in a racist worldview -- a view in which ONLY members of one race can know or understand ANYTHING pertaining to that race. This is one of the arguments that white racists used to defend 'separate but equal', but you wouldn't know that.

By the bye, my grandmother Ruth's family were sharecroppers in Arkadelphia, Arkansas. She was out in the summer sun chopping cotton for eight or more hours per day. She was white.

What were YOU doing when you were eight? Did you know that poor whites sharecropped? Do you assume that somehow the bags of cotton must have been lighter for the white folks?

OncealwaysaMarine. My respect, sir, and
heartfelt thanks for your service. Your posts 1-4. Very well said, my friend. Kudos.

akagi

"slinks off with his tail tucked formly between his spindly legs."

Cowardly not admit you got it wrong.

But I didn't expect much.