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Wednesday, August 20, 2008
John Stossel :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Idiocy of Energy Independence
by John Stossel
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It's amazing how ideas with no merit become popular merely because they sound good.

Most every politician and pundit says "energy independence" is a great idea. Presidents have promised it for 35 years. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we were self-sufficient, protected from high prices, supply disruptions and political machinations?

The hitch is that even if the United States were energy independent, it would be protected from none of those things. To think otherwise is to misunderstand basic economics and the global marketplace.

To be for "energy independence" is to be against trade. But trade makes us as safe. Crop destruction from this summer's floods in the Midwest should remind us of the folly of depending only on ourselves. Achieving "energy independence" would expose us to unnecessary risks -- such as storms that knock out oil refineries or droughts that create corn -- and ethanol -- shortages.

Trade also saves us money. "We import energy for a reason," says the Cato Institute's energy expert, Jerry Taylor, "It's cheaper than producing it here at home. A governmental war on energy imports will, by definition, raise energy prices".

Anyway, a "domestic energy only" policy (call it "Drain America First"?) is a fantasy. America's demand for oil is too great for us to supply ourselves. Electricity we could provide. Not with windmills and solar panels -- they are not yet close to providing enough -- but coal and nuclear power could produce America's electricity.

But cars need oil. We don't have nearly enough.

That doesn't keep the presidential candidates from preying on the public's economic ignorance.

"I have set before the American people an energy plan, the Lexington Project -- named for the town where Americans asserted their independence once before," John McCain said. "This nation will achieve strategic independence by 2025".

Barack Obama, promising to "set America on path to energy independence," is upset that we send millions to other countries. "They get our money because we need their oil".

His concern that "they get our money" is echoed in commercials funded by Republican businessman T. Boone Pickens, who wants government subsidies for alternative energy. He tries to scare us by saying, "$700 billion are leaving this country to foreign nations every year -- the largest transfer of wealth in the history of mankind."

Don't Obama and Pickens realize that we get something useful for that money? It's not a "transfer"; it's a win-win transaction, like all voluntary trade. Who cares if the sellers live in a foreign country? When two parties trade, each is better off -- or the exchange would never have been made. We want the oil more than the money. They want the money more than the oil. They need us as much as we need them.

And Obama is wrong when he implies that America imports most of its oil from the Mideast. Most of it comes from Canada and Mexico.

McCain and Obama talk constantly about how much they will "invest" -- with money taken from the taxpayers, of course -- to achieve energy independence. "[W]e can provide loan guarantees and venture capital to those with the best plans to develop and sell biofuels on a commercial market," Obama said.

What makes Obama think he's qualified to pick the "best plans"? It's the robust competition of the free market that reveals what's best. Obama's program would preempt the only good method we have for learning which form of energy is best.

Has he learned nothing from the conceits of his predecessors? Jimmy Carter, saying that achieving energy independence was the "moral equivalent of war," called for "the most massive peacetime commitment of funds ... to develop America's own alternative". Then he wasted billions of our tax dollars on the utterly failed "synfuel" program.

McCain promises a $300-million prize to whoever develops a battery for an electric car. But the free market already provides plenty of incentive to invent a better battery. As George Mason University economist Donald Boudreaux writes, "Anyone who develops such a device will earn profits dwarfing $300 million simply by selling it on the market. There's absolutely no need for any such taxpayer-funded prize".

Central energy planning and government-funded prizes are economic idiocy.

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About The Author
John Stossel blogs at http://blogs.abcnews.com/johnstossel/ is an award-winning news correspondent and author of Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity: Get Out the Shovel--Why Everything You Know is Wrong.
 
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Big John
I have long admired the thoughts of John Stossel. Lately I've begun to wonder.

Where to begin with this one? I think it would be a good thing to no longer worry about the Strait of Homuz. Trade is great if the partner prodices something we don't have e.g. bananas, we have oil reserves to dwarf the Saudi inventory and I would rather US dollars pay American workers and local taxes confiscated from those workers.

That's enough for me for now.

FOWG
He does have one thing right. Central planning is a bad idea. Let the market decide and not the government. The government should get out of the way and let the producers give the consumers the most bang for the buck.

Yeah... Where does McCain get
the authority to offer $300 million? Is he planning on ponying this up himself (using his wife's money, I guess)?

HE can't authorize that. Congress passes spending authorizations and budgets.




the real energy issue:
national security.

We need ALL of it.... especially nuclear.

Re: The real energy issue
National Security.

We need all of it...especially nuclear.

AMEN!

dependance
I not only have to disagree, I have to wonder where your thinking is coming from. For every dollar of oil we produce here, is money that stays here. It's wealth that isn't transfered. We might not have enough oil now, under the restrictions that are placed on our producers. If farmers had their hands tied the way oil producers are all tied up, we'd starve to death and not have enough food either!
There are huge reserves in alaska, california, in north dakota, oil shale in colorado, off the gulf of florida... everyplace you turn it's amazing the oil reserves we aren't even allowed to map and research. I grew up in Los Angeles and there used to be oil pumps all over town!

I'd never ever agree it's a good thing to depend on people that want to hurt us. Nothing you said overcomes the fact that many oil producers want us brought to our knees, too bad that the democratic congress is racing them too it!

Importing oil?
"We import energy for a reason," says the Cato Institute's energy expert, Jerry Taylor, "It's cheaper than producing it here at home."

Thats only true if the US government makes it true by preventing exploration and production.

Oil Shale
Hey, we have a lot of oil shale out here in Utah and Colorado. I've heard some estimates that there is as much oil here as is found in Saudi Arabia. Are we willing to do what it takes to get that oil?

I can guarantee no Democrat will be able to advocate energy independence via oil shale. Why? Because the Sierra Club (Democrat Fan Club) would never allow it. They oppose basically everything.

Stossel, If that's your real name...
You cleverly quote PART of Obama's speech:
"Barack Obama, promising to "set America on path to energy independence," is upset that we send millions to other countries. "They get our money because we need their oil""

Notice how stossel leaves off the quotes about "millions to other countries"???

That's because it's BILLIONS. LOTS of BILLIONS! 700 of them each year. That's 7/10ths of a TRILLION dollars for oil.

Yeah Energy independence is such a dumb idea. Stossel's just dumb enough to write about it.

Amen to Amen
John Stossel sounds like a real defeatist. One of the reasons I gave up my subscription to Human Events is because of editorials like his. We have our backs to the wall and he's raising the white flag.

Energy
I like John Stossel, but I don't agree with him this time. The US can produce enough oil at a price that will drive down the price of oil world-wide. That will deprive oil producing countries who do not like us such as Iran, Russia, and Venezuela of a lot of money, and will leave the money in the US. It will not take 13 million barrels of oil per day to do this; maybe 3 or 4 million would be sufficient. We could use nuclear power to provide the energy necessary to produce shale oil, a source that could provide 5 million barrels per day for a few hundred years. Increasing our oil production would increase the security of the country.

Independence
Free trade is probably the best way to raise the standards of people in the world. Unfortunately, corrupt governments usually steal the fruit of free trade from reaching most people.

However, the OPEC nations of the Middle East, Saudi Arabia in particular, fund anti-Western schools, mosques and propaganda. They seek to destroy the West and replace it with their Sharia based ideology of intolerance, corruption and hatred. There is no need to fund them, or Chavez, or the oligarchs of Mexico because we can be independent.

One of the things that drives me crazy about ALL the candidates is their utter lack of understanding or INTEREST of technology. McCain's $300M prize is nonsense; if he allowed the US government's civilian vehicle fleet to test ideas and measure results, then publicize them, he would be well on his way to energy independence. The big thing McCain has to do is reduce the regulatory maze inventors have to navigate. If I were the nominee and victor, every environmental group headquarters would get barrels of radioactive waste and a little order saying they were now a "temporary waste site" with all the rules of DoE/NRC than MUST be followed. Let them present their plans for handling the waste to their exalted standards. Oh, and alert all the members their homes are on the list to become sites. Make them put up or shut up. They've had 3 score years to come up with answers and I have yet to hear one. 30 days to put up or shut up; SCOTUS tells the federal judges to drop cases if no waste solution answers are presented.

Look up US Patent #6,846,967 as an example of a method to handle all types and levels of nuclear waste.

Sellers market Petroleum is real problem
Stoessel's article's logic assumes a free, competitive market. The OPEC cartel assures that this is not reality. Our aim should be to force "buyers" market, rather than the "sellers" market that we've had for the last few years; where buyers are bidding up the price to way over the cost basis. We have had 35 years since 1973, and Congress and the administrations never prioritized a real strategy. With the great growth in consumption by India and China it is harder now, than before. A threefold strategy is: 1) Cut drasticslly our consumption of petroleum; 2)Drill extensively for petroleum in non-OPEC areas; 3) develope the coal, shale, and tar-sands to oil industries.
Current prius technology Hybrids have only 1/3 the consumption of a typical SUV. Future plug-in hybrids will reduce tha by a further 50%. Extensive drilling will will at least compensate for the depletion of current wells(worlwide). The Germans, 1n 1944 got about 50% of their fuel needs from coal to oil plants. It can be done better today.
There needs to be theright combination of incentives for helpful actions and dis-incentives for harmful ones. the critical fuel crisis is liquid fuel that be carried in a car's gas tank. Wind,and solar are of no major help. Plug-in hybrids willbe charged at night when there is large eztra grid capacity. We hhave much more energy in Coal, Shale, and Tar sands than Arabia has in petroleum. Petrrolum is much cheaper to produce, but it is priced very high by the OPEC cartel,in effect putting a large tax on it that goes mainly to terrorists supporting nations. If we put the equivolent tax on ourselves, we would be able to use the funds for our purposes, and not to support terrorism.

What If . . .
the USA was energy independent and the Chinese were willing to pay $200/bbl? What would you do if you owned a oil company? You can either sell to the US market for $120/bbl or $200/bbl to China. That's right, the oil goes to China.

Everybody having access to the same oil seems to keep things in balance. And by having options, it keeps the middle eastern countries in check instead of being able to control everything.

Yes, we need to drill in America and produce more. But economics are global, not local.

Well...
I too like John Stossel's views. Mostly. Like this Global Warming stuff. It just makes sense.

This article doesn't reach that level. It's not so much a 100% energy independence Americans are looking for as a level of independence where we wouldn't be held hostage to regimes who don't like us very much. What that level is I couldn't say but I do know that importing 70% of our oil isn't it.

I say we develop our resources . . .
We should develop domestic sources of energy just as a matter of good business. This lunacy that there is some way for the US to be isolated from world energy markets is pervasive amongst the ill-informed and under-educated. We should produce resources just because we use them.


We Still Need to Drill
It's true that we can probably never achieve that fantasy "energy independence" -- but, in putting more oil on the market, we CAN increase the supply, which reduces the price.

One of the craziest thing I've heard from a politician (and there's plenty) is that if we start drilling now, the price of oil won't go down immediately.

Well, DUH. If you put $1,000 into a 5% savings account, you're not going to get $1,276 immediately either. But you CAN get approximately that amount after about a 5 year wait.

We need to invest NOW for when drilling CAN produce significant results.

The worldwide demand for petroleum products is ONLY going to go UP, even if we convert all of our houses to use solar panels, even if we build a thousand nuclear plants. The only way to keep the price under control is to let the supply increase to keep up with the demand.

Independence is always an excellent goal
I appreciate John Stossel?s perspective on the issue of energy independence, but I like the idea that we produce energy in the amount we consume. The effort of producing an equivalent of our own energy consumption, and increasing our refining capacity as necessary, provides jobs for our citizens and provides for a higher degree of energy security.

Independence is always an excellent goal
I appreciate John Stossel?s perspective on the issue of energy independence, but I like the idea that we produce energy in the amount we consume. The effort of producing an equivalent of our own energy consumption, and increasing our refining capacity as necessary, provides jobs for our citizens and provides for a higher degree of energy security.

Independence is always an excellent goal
I appreciate John Stossel?s perspective on the issue of energy independence, but I like the idea that we produce energy in the amount we consume. The effort of producing an equivalent of our own energy consumption, and increasing our refining capacity as necessary, provides jobs for our citizens and provides for a higher degree of energy security.

Stossell's right but drill, drill, drill
I agree with John. His words don't say a word against eyes-wide-open offshore/Anwar drilling, nuclear, coal, oil shale, wind, waves, solar, etc. Each of these things are part of the picture if we are even as smart as the OPEC ministers have openly said we should be. We can't continue to allow the stupidest people on earth (the Enviro-dem combine) to wreck our economy, making us the laughingstock of the world any longer. Nancy Pelosi and her brain-dead compatriots are our homemade disasters who have robbed our economy of hundreds of billions of our dollars.
The stupidest Americans shoot us in our own feet. No wonder our young people are largely w/o hope. Their are about 350 billion dollars yearly that we could be keeping here in America (of the 700 billions we send out yearly) in doing all of these aforementioned energy efforts. These billions would give our young people thousands of 50-100 thousand-dollar-a-year jobs, enriching all of our people across our nation. This money is being spent anyway, just being thrown overseas. There is plenty more value that we can give in venture capitol, but the single best value we have is the psychological value of America's "can do" attitude which will heal our unease and our needless fears (that the left needs for it's own reasons to be infected onto our people). The left's traditional hatred for "The Freedom Of The People" is expressed by Nancy Pelosi and the Dem's (my former party) by means of their shooting Americans in our energy backs.

To me it ain't about...
...lowering fuel and energy prices. It's about our national security when foreign countries can control our interests and priorities. The EU will cave to Russia over the Georgia interlude because Russia controls the energy the EU needs. There goes the alliance with the USA. The same can happen to us and will if we don't look inwardly for our survival.

Oil
It's incorrect to say that we import their oil because it's cheaper than us getting it from ourselves. It is also incorrect to say that we don't have enough oil to supply our needs. Estimates indicate that we have something like 200 years worth of accessible oil within our own shores. 200 years is more than enough to support our needs while giving the marketplace more than enough time to develop alternative technologies gradually, instead of forcefully through government command. In addition, the reason we import oil instead of getting it ourselves is not because it's cheaper for us that way, but rather it's because our own government has INTERFERED with the market by making it illegal to get our own oil from almost every place we have it. Rather than having a free market of energy, we actually are suffer under our own government's imposed restrictions and manipulations of the market.

The oil issue.
WE do not need "economic independence" we need balanced trade. We should be able to export food and other goods in an amount to our needs for oil and other items. That should be the goal of governmental polices. Any efforts to the contrary will always interupt the supply of one item or another. But, the sporatic urges of Americans to get more of one thing and then another is not controllable by governmental policies. These fads are only controllable by supply and demand which control prices. Our energy policy is way out of whack due to governmental polices that are impairments towards a balanced trade goal.

Security
I am glad to see that Americans see this problem clearly and not just the cost of filling up your tank. Its a shame that the people we pay so much money to have vision for America are so dum. We are the last hope so for countries that want to live free and if we are held by foreigners that control our oil how can we help, europe is a example that will be us soon. This is the worst congress America has ever had and the worst time to have this congress.

To Unca Alby
I agree with everything you said, but one principle was left out. Once we have the "permission" to start drilling our own stuff again, the price will drop immediately. The market also works on expectations.

Energy Independence
I agree in general with most of Stossel's points, but would like to pick a couple of nits. There are good strategic reasons for wishing to increase domestic oil production and reduce dependency on oil generally, which are not necessarily economic in nature. As we have seen in the case of Russia, predatory countries both use oil as a weapon to influence the behavior of other countries, and as a means to fund the development of their military capabilities. Without the leverage provided by oil, Russia would be a colder, larger version of Turkey.

Therefore, the market price of oil is an important factor in U.S. security strategy. Were we to drive the price of oil down to less than $100/barrel, it would seriously impact the cash flow of Russia, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Venezuela. Furthermore, if more oil were available from the United States, we could use our leverage in the market to assist allied countries threatened with supply cutoffs by their oil-rich suppliers.

Conversely, by reducing the dependence of the U.S. on foreign oil, we would reduce our vulnerability to supply disruptions abroad, or the use of oil as a weapon against us, thereby giving us a freer hand in our international affairs.

As Churchill said, "The Kingdom of Heaven runs on right and wrong, the kingdoms of earth run on oil".


Challenge Prizes
With regard to the value of "prize challenges", Mr. Stossel needs to review his aviation history. It was precisely such challanges as the Orteig Prize (won by Charles Lindberg) and similar prizes for breaking aviation performance barriers that opened up air transport in the 1920s and 30s. These prizes were quite substantial for their time--the Orteig Prize of $25,000 in 1927 would be worth perhaps 100 times as much today.

The prize money attracted smaller entrepreneurs with "outside the box" approaches not being explored by established companies (Lindberg, e.g., was the only competitor who chose the single-engine, single-seat monoplane approach, which required him to develop--with Ryan Aircraft--the smallest plane with the necessary fuel and an extremely reliable engine).

Prizes of this sort also serve to generate public interest in the new technology, making it "sexy", and thereby attracting investors and customers, which in turn drives more innovation.

In general, the market is adequate to the tasks set before it, as long as the incentives are purely economic. "When it is steamboat time, you steam", and not before--government cannot force technological maturity before its time using purely economic motives (which is why war sees so much technical innovation: the incentives are not economic but strategic). Prizes, therefore, are a good way of nudging or jump-starting new technologies, provided they are properly structured.

It's a national security issue!
If we lose the imported oil and don't have the ability to pump our own because the dems are blocking it, the country would be shut down and there will be chaos. The strategic reserve is to keep the military running, something sanfran nan doesn't want to acknowledge.

The dems are placing this country at risk for political gain and should be thrown out this election for that reason.
The old dems were patriotic, this bunch are closet commies and ought to be tried for treason. They have obstructed everything Bush wanted to do starting with SS reform. They know it's broke and don't give a dammm because it buys them votes, if the republicans privatized it and people retired on 3 times what they get now and pass it on to the kids, the dems would be out and they know it.

Wrong Argument
I generally agree with Stossel's Libertarian views and do agree with most of his points in this column - but feel he's missed key points and found himself on the wrong side of the argument. Domestic oil production is good for America!

1) More supply lowers total cost to all and we have untapped resources

2) Our cost of production is artifically high (regulation, lawsuits, enviro protestors). Congress could correct all of these issues and competitiveness would magically appear

3) Higher domestic production would increase the tax base, which could (but probably wouldn't) be used to lower the debt

4) One can be for more American jobs being created without being against more foreign trade this isn't a mutually exclusive argument.

Who Bought You Stossel
Arab oil is the knife of Daedalus hanging over our heads. We need to develop alternative energy to prevent oil rich lands from punishing us as they did 30 years ago under Carter.

Ethanol, methanol, hydroelectric, wind, solar, will all be viable alternatives when developed, and developed they will be.

A very disappointed TH reader.

Mostly agree, however...
...LESS dependence on/being hostage to hostile, Islamic terrorism-sponsoring regimes is a good objective to achieve, and somewhat dries up their coffers.

thanks TH
Finally something more thought provoking then the usual political piece.
And...that's why this election is scary. We as a country feel out of control in a world where we thought we were the ones in control.

Where are the true leaders? Not in Washington, that's for sure.



H2O skier @12:31
is mostly right, but didn't explicitly mention the other side of the coin: central planning also extends to letting folks look for resources. If large portions of the land(and sea)scape are off-limits for drilling then the government is intervening in the industry as surely as if they socialized it.

STOSSEL IS WRONG!
Stossel's argument is based upon the assumption that we have a global free-market economy with respect to the production and supply of energy. But this is not so. Further, all forms of energy are not the same and cannot be equally substituted. There is a HUGE global demand for fossil fuel energy, which is held in abundance by many countries which have not had a free market perspective and whose interests have been hostile to the U.S. To make matters worse, the U.S. policies have hampered free market energy supply and development, leaving us vulnerable to the problem of global energy demand for fossil fuels.
Being an energy independent does not necessarily mean that we do not trade with other countries that produce energy when it is economically advantageous. Rather, it means that we have the ability to supply and meet our own energy demands if necessary. We are not vulnerable to the caprices of other nations. Our foreign policy concerns are not dependent upon us making decisions for energy at a compromise of other interests that are important to us. Energy is vital for our economy and for the well-being and prosperity of every American. So is our national defense, and we would never want to be dependent on another nation for that! The same can be said for energy.

Free Trade and Free Production
Of course we'll keep trading with Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, Nigeria and Russia. The difference when we produce huge amount of our own oil, will be that we'll have more leverage to defend our national interests and those of our allies against Putin and friends.

How many of you have called your Senators and Reps. demanding that we lift the offshore, ANWR and shale bans?

Capitol Switchboard (202) 224-3121

Gee, Stossel
"Crop destruction from this summer's floods in the Midwest should remind us of the folly of depending only on ourselves."

Yeah. And disruption of oil supplies due to war, terrorism, or any number of other reasons should remind us of the folly of depending too much on others.

The best part was his last sentence...
'Central energy planning and government-funded prizes are economic idiocy.'

However, I do not agree that energy independence is anti-trade. When oil is 5 times the cost today versus two years ago then having an alternative to oil makes sense. Ethanol - not only no but h*ll no. Electricity is the future because we are learning new and better ways of providing this energy. The market place seems to be responding very slowly in the area of hybrid cars. My question is why? Why so slow? It is true that batteries are not perfect yet but the internal combustion engine was not perfect for many years but it was put to work worts and all. So why is GM, Ford, Chrysler and others so slow to offer a plug in hybrid?

A plug in hybrid would give me the option to use electricity or gas. When gas becomes cheaper I decide how much gas or electricity I use. PHEV would likely be recharged at night. Power companies have to shut down generating facilities at night due to a reduction in demand. As more late night electricity is used, by PEHVs, the power companies will make more profits and will be able to pay off their facilities more easily which will make electricity cheaper for everyone.

In one sense sending oil money overseas takes money out of our economy and makes other items we all purchase more expensive. Imagine if just the money we send to Saudi Arabia were kept here at home because we had other energy choices. That amount of money would be a million times the price of a barrel of oil each day. At $150 per barrel that would amount to about $0.50 for each man, woman and child in America each day. That sounds small but on a yearly basis that would amount to over $182 for each person.

I like Stossel but this article smells like a three day old fish.

And once again.......
numerous posters miss the point and leap at the chance to yell "traitor." Nowhere in this article does Stossel say we should not drill. What he says is that there are current technologies that could provide electricity and greatly reduce our dependence on oil, if the government would remove its chokehold.

Also, he states right in the piece that we import most of our oil from Canada and Mexico, yet here are the posters screaming that we are financing those who hate us.

No one in power cares that the reason oil is expensive is because every other viable (that's "viable," meaning we know it works right now) technology has been taken off the table. If you make it illegal, things get more expensive because choice is limited. I've heard the same argument about drug money supplying terrorists. Drugs generate money precisely because they're illegal and can't be produced here. That's not an argument against or for drugs.

Reduce debilitating regulation and alloow more energy (not just oil) production, and we can be much more independent. Total independence is folly.

John is wrong on this one
I usually enjoy his articles, but he's all wet on this one.

First of all, we do have the ability to provide our own oil. Just in Oil shale alone, we have an oil supply equal to that of Saudi Arabia.

This all comes down to supply and demand. If there is greater supply, there's less demand, prices plummet.

The greatest oil fields have been off limits for decades, let's get to them and start pumping. Let's provide government loans for new refineries, which is the real bottleneck.

Carter said we can't drill our way out of this.
Clinton said we can't drill our way out of this when he veteod the ANWR drilling.
Obama says we can't drill our way out of this.

Not tomorrow! But if Carter had actually done something, we'd be energy independent today.

Not to mention the number of new jobs this would create.

There is no better investment the government can make today, than to start drilling everywhere, building new refineries, and building new nuclear reactors.

Until wind, solar, and other forms of alternative energy make the scene, let's invest in what we have now!

Russia is holding the Ukraine hostage over oil.
OPEC is certainly manipulating the market every time they cut back on production.

OIL is a huge sanction tool. OIL is vital to the stability of any economy. There is no easier way to manipulate the economic stablity of any country than with oil. Oil prices go up, and so does everything else.

It is in our national interest and for our national and economic security that we be fully independent for our oil needs. That's just the facts!

Pickens is no altruist
Pickens owns much of the land where his proposed wind farms will be built.

Now, individuals acting in their own self-interest do drive the ideal capitalist economy.

But let's not hand him any more public money, tax breaks, etc, than he has already received, just because he appears in commercials as Mr. Concern And Care. Let him develop the power on his own, and if it's cheaper, people will buy it.

Obama delenda est.

independance
Does anyone believe that we have achieved total independence in food production?
Do we produce all the corn, wheat and soybeans we need and then export some more?
Did anyone notice that it did not protect us from pricing of all the agricultural commodities tripling and quadrupling over the last year?
Speaking of “outrageous” gas prices.
About 30 years ago government kept prices under price control to make it “affordable” at about $1/gal.
Remember prices posted next to “NO GAS” signs?
Since then everything increased in price by a factor of 4.
So, today $4/gal is equal to “price controlled” $1/gal during Carter administration.

Mr. Stossel misses the point...
Energy independence does not infer that we would produce all of the oil we require from domestic sources. Rather it means freeing ourselves of that percentage of oil imported from hostile trading partners.

We need to be able to say "Not at that price!" and make it stick.

The strategic aspect is even more important. We could very well find ourselves cut off from certain energy markets. It has happened before.

It can't have escaped Mr. Stossel that the failed Carter "Synfuel" project he references IS the very same ethanol currently being touted as the answer to our energy problems.

Fair trade and free trade are not the same thing. We have a huge balance of trade deficit (around 800 billion dollars). It is not all from oil as T. Boone would have us believe but in large part due to the fact that our manufacturing base in not located in the U.S. any longer.

What is needed is for government to get out of the way and let the marketplace deal with energy. Mr. Stossel needs to spend some time with either Dr. Sowell or Dr. Williams.

Energy independence
John Stossel is wrong when he says who cares where the seller of the oil lives, by God I care. Pelosi and others are prone to tell us that using our own oil supplies will only reduce the price at the pump a mere 10 cents. SO? We will have to use oil for our forseeable future, why not keep ALL that $720 billion in the UNITED STATES of AMERICA, even if it only saves 10 cents a gallon? That's 10 cents in Americas pocket!
Why do our obscene congress-critters want to support those countries who would love to see our demise as a world power and seek our destruction??
Drill now, build now for the future of America. Build now means nuclear, wind, solar new refineries, clean coal technology plants ( like the one in Indiana),bio-fuel plants and any other means to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels.
Just face the facts, WE CANNOT EXIST WITHOUT OIL! Certainly not in the near future.

Energy Independence Propaganda
“Energy Independence” is just another government catch phrase that hides the true goal of the big government communists. If the goal were truly to get us off of foreign oil we would be drilling and pumping everywhere in the U.S. and congress would be passing laws making it illegal to import oil and gas. Note that congress has been strangely silent on that front.

The real aim of the Lamocrats is to advance the steady march in the U.S. to communism. If they can pick up a few votes from the loony-tunes eco-idiot groups they figure they are ahead of the game.

Speaking of loony-tunes eco-idiot groups I saw a piece of the news a few days ago about an idiot group who were fighting the building of transmission lines from a solar panel array in the desert. It seems that fighting transmission lines is the latest in the eco-idiot arsenal for returning mankind to the pre-fire hunter-gatherer stage.

It is easy to understand the motives of people like T. Boondogle Nosepickens; they are just out to make a buck off of the taxpayer and the ratepayer. It is hard to understand why people support the eco-idiots who wish to restore us to the days before fire was “invented”.

Stossel Has Lost His Mind, part 1!
I have always had a very high regard for you Mr. Stossel, and I still do. Your ignorance on this issue, however, is shocking!

Falsehood 1: If the United States were energy independent, it would be protected against “foreign” supply disruptions and the “foreign” political machinations of countries that wish us ill. This would not only free our foreign policy from blackmail, but it would greatly strengthen our national security. A person who fails to understand this lacks a basic understanding of foreign affairs, national security issues, and petro politics.

Falsehood 2: Advocating energy independence does not mean the person is against free trade. This isn’t either one or the other. One can be both for free trade and also energy independence. How could you possibly come to such a nonsensical conclusion? As you do not in any way justify this monstrous assertion, I have no argument to refute.

Disingenuous 1: No one claims that we would be 100% free of supply disruptions if we were energy independent, but we would certainly suffer far fewer disruptions. If we ever suffered a massive domestic disruption, we could always buy what we needed until the disruption was resolved.

Energy Independence
Dear Mr. Stossel, this is not a voluntary trade for either party, one has more then it can use for itself and the other does not have enough.Just wait and see what happens when the ones that now have surplus no longer have one.However, energy independence in for this country is a myth because even if we could produce enough to fill our demand, who says that it would be sold here? Since the extracting companies are in business to make money they will always sell to the highest bidder and that might not be us.So unless we would add a stipulation that crude extracted from US leases would have to be sold in the USA unless there is a surplus, oil independence will never happen.
Independence in electricity production is possible with nuclear, coal and a little wind and solar but not the rest, especially in a free market society.

John, You're Great But .. .
Energy independence doesn't mean opposition to trade. If we ever become energy independent, we'll still have the option of buying energy on the world market. Energy independence also means revisiting policies that haven't served us well. We should drill in ANWR, we should build refineries, we should build nuclear plants. I'm all for trade, but is there any virtue in sending those billions abroad when we could have efficient domestic sources of energy if we only had the will to develop them?

Most importantly though, it's just plain no good being hostage to hostile nations that produce much of the world's oil supply.

Stossel Has Lost His Mind, part 2!
Disingenuous 2: Yes, we do import much oil from Canada and Mexico. But, how many of the over 700 billion goes to countries like Saudi Arabia and Venezuela, countries which wish us ill? This too is an issue of national security.

You may be unaware of how much Chavez hates America and that he has invited Putin to build a military base in his country. Chavez uses his American billions to buy weapons and he spreads his influence and his brand of Marxism throughout South America. He should not receive even one dollar from the U.S.

Further, the production of countries like Canada and Mexico that we currently use could be diverted to Europe so that Europe could be less dependent on Russia and the Middle East. They too would be in a position to make much needed changes in their foreign policy as they would be much less prone to blackmail.

Disingenuous 3: The United States can become energy independent thru its own untapped oil and oil shale resources. We do not need to depend on and should not divert the nation’s agricultural production for fuel. If we use our farmland to produce fuel instead of food and feed, which is a horrible idea, than you are correct. Then we will truly be at the mercy of those plagues of locusts.

Oil independence vs US safety
Sorry, but you've lost me. you said that we may deplete our oil. Ans. we have approx 8 to 10 trillion bbls. More than the middle east, Nigeria, Venezuela combined. In other words, we have enough oil in the continental USA to supply us with oil for 2 to 3 hundred yrs. I understand that Mexico and Canada supplies with oil, but it's not enough. We still have to buy from countries that hate our guts. Also, we are at the mercy of the whims of countries that can cut us off whenever they feel like it. If we had our own oil, we have the option to do what we need to do for the best of the USA, not anyone else. Question; what would be our option be should Israel attack Iran or Iran attack Israel? The middle east countries have already said that if we support Israel, they would cut off our oil, we had better believe them. We must be free from oil blackmail from other countries. Being free from oil blackmail should be our only option.

Adam Smith, call your office!
If the baker made our bread for a cost of pennies per loaf, and then offered to sell it to us for dollars a loaf, we'd start baking our OWN damn bread in a New York minute!

That's how free trade is supposed to work, Mr. Stossel.

Drill here. Drill now. Pay less!

Sorry John
The national security issue is real. We have given control over our nation's well being to other countries. Watch what Russia is doing to have control of Europe. They are buying up energy sources as quickly as they can. They will be able to control the flow of energy and consequently, control the people of Europe. Wake up John!

We also have a terrible balance of trade problem in this country. We are selling our country to foreign nations because we import far more than we export. If we were to export goods equal to our imports there wouldn't be this problem. If our exports to the countries supplying us with oil were equal to the 700 billion we are paying out to them, it would be a different story. Get a clue, John! If you consistently buy more than you sell, you eventually are bankrupt!

Watch the movie IOUSA! We can't live on foreign credit much longer.


Missing the point
Most posters who are criticizing Stossel on this are being misled by Stossel's semantics. Stossel derides "energy independence", but what he's really opposing here is government intervention in the energy market.

He points out that we could provide all the electricity we need for our homes and businesses with nuclear power and coal (if the government would allow it). He also points out that we get nearly all of our imported oil from Canada and Mexico, not the Middle East.

But the main thrust of Stossel's article is that it is foolish for Presidents (like Carter) and Presidential candidates (McCain and Obama) to talk about government sponsored incentives to develop alternate fuels. He exemplifies this with a quote from economist Donald Boudreaux. "Anyone who develops such a device will earn profits dwarfing $300 million simply by selling it on the market."

This is what politicians, liberal economists, and liberals in general have never understood. The incentive has always been there for private industry to develop the successor (would you libs get it if I called it a paradigm?) to petroleum. In the meantime the left is so obsessed with artificially expediting this paradigm that they are willing to artificially create $4 gasoline and food shortages by foisting a total hoax (global warming) on America and the world.

If you want to solve our energy problems you must de-regulate the energy industry. Whether this creates "energy independence", by Stossel's definition or anyone else's, is irrelevant because this is merely a matter of semantics.

I don't get it.
No one is suggesting that we should stop trading, but I respectfully disagree if what you are suggesting is that for us to become less dependent of others, is somehow not in our best interest.

energy
nuclear energy. fine as long as a couple of questions are answered first
1, why is it that no american insurance company will insure an american nuclear plant, one already built or one contemplated. why did congress have to pass special almost secret legislation many years ago taking on this insurance by the u s government . at the same time these companies will and do insure nuclear plants all over the world including in Russia. Whatsthe big difference?
2, why is France, a county whose use of nuclear power is usually used as a prime example of how it can work, almost desperately doing its best, at trwemendous cost, to convert almost all its nuclear energy to gas and coal?
3, where wiill we store the waste, a question that really hasnt been answered for 50 years. perhaps this might explain why we invaded iraq. lots of open space and few people to resist in iraq what the hell, its as good a rason as any that were offerd by the administration.
OIL Production. 45 percent of our oil comes from Canada. another 25 peercent comes from Mexico. becoming independent of foreign oil may not be a good idea but assuming that these countries will always reamin our friends (under threat of military intervention if necesary ) it leaves only 30 per cent of our oil supply to be supplied by ourselvers. not an impossible dream. if the oil companies get land leases and then cant use them because they find out there is no oil on them, how can they know that oill will be available under the ocean. same dirt, with water added. if they cant use the land they leaswed why are the so desperate to keep it. its ours not theirs.

aspacia
I have two questions about your post:

1. If all those "viable alternatives" are so viable, why can't they survive in the free market without the federal government subsidizing them? (Especially ethanol, which takes more energy to produce than it's own output, how is that viable?)

2. What disappoints you? The fact that someone disagrees with you? This is an opinion site, not aspacia's special site where everyone agrees with you.

Energy Independence
I am going to avoid my temptation to attack the author for his misguided perspective and instead focus on what energy independence is all about. It is not about the per barrel cost, low gas prices, the elimination of fossil fuels or affecting world demand for oil. First and foremost, it is about significantly reducing or eliminating our "dependence" on foreign suppliers of this mandatory and critical resource.

As for not enough domestic supply, that is just bogus. We have enough oil both land based and off our coasts to supply our immediate requirement for at least two decades. In the interim, we are perfecting effective methods of obtaining oil from oil shale, the quantities of which are estimated to dwarf the reserves of the Middle East.

Finally and most important, it is about the "national security stupid." Until scientists and engineers can realistically develop the utopian windmills and their solar equivalent, oil is what we have and we need to secure it.

For those who still don't get it, Russia just invaded the sovereign nation of Georgia and the oh-so-civilized Western Europeans are quaking in their boots that Russia will cut off their oil supply. What Russia is to Western Europe, the Middle East, Venezuela and Mexico are to the U.S. Does anyone have a warm fuzzy as to their love for this country?

I love this guy too!
John Stossel for VPOTUS! Then he and Walter Williams can trade every 4 years.

What is wrong with...
John Stossel? What happens when the Middle East really comes apart at the seams? Should we not have the capability of being more dependent on ourselves, especially in times of emergency?

Trade is a good thing but being able to back off and be self sufficient is also necessary when the trade offs become too lopsided.

If government weren't subsidizing their pet projects and protecting others from competition, American ingenuity probably would already have solved many of our energy needs with alternatives and increased efficiency of what we already have.

Global marketplace
The whole point to "energy independence" is simply to flood the global market with oil. Open up the Bakken formation, shale oil in the Rockies, drill offshore, and you sent the free market prices through the floor. The price of Middle Eastern oil would fall down to a level commensurate with its cost of production, about $5 per bbl.

Oil Shale in Hawaii?
>Disingenuous 3: The United States can become energy independent thru its own untapped oil and oil shale resources.<

The product produced from shale(keragen) can be refined for jet fuel and diesel. The land where the shale exists is currently producing traditional crude and huge amounts of natural gas, cheaper to extract and cleaner to burn.

Those who believe oil shale will allow us to become energy independent are victims of propoganda. This product will never be any more than a cottage industry for a number of reasons.

wiseone
While I am not an expert on the collected works of John Stossel, I have read one of his books and also many of his columns. I have always received his message as straight and from the hip.

If you your interpretation is correct, however, I would recommend that he discontinue such an entirely semantic writing style. It doesn’t work and it makes him look foolish

Again, I write this as a fan of his who greatly appreciates what he does.

Echo Chamber
I had a feeling that I was not the only one who would express "energy independence" in the terms that I did. I was so upset with the article though, that I posted before reading comments. This is one time that I am pleased to be another echo to many who have also expressed energy independence in terms of national security.

Energy Independence
Dear Mr. Stossel; While I completely agree with your premises on the benefits of the Free Market, I would still rather NOT be dependent on non American sources of Energy.
Drilling in America (Off shore, ANWR) should not be seen as a “Solution” rather as an “IV” for a bleeding man
You’re also right, about nuclear power. I would recommend you look into Modular Pebble Bed Reactor (MPBR) http://www.nextgenerationnuclearplant.com/ you might also want to look at http://www.contourcrafting.org/ as a means for rapid construction of the sites

Full disclosure
This article is correct if you accept all the assumptions made.

However, the U.S. has sufficient reserves of oil to meet our needs for at least the next century. We have enough Coal to triple that supply. Most experts believe that in large production coal can be converted to liquid fuels (Synfuel) at the equivalent of $30 to $35/barrel. The military is all ready committed to Synfuel (The Air Force by 2015)
Furthermore, Synfuel burns substantially cleaner than petroleum based fuels. If we were to develop both of these resources in parallel, we would be virtually free of a few catastrophic events knocking our supply infrastructure.

As for the Ethanol, it is a very idiotic choice for fuel. Congress, by opting to make Ethanol a standard fuel, has driven up the cost of nearly all foods and has contributed to a world food shortages. It is also highly subsidized, hiding its real cost to the consumer.

As for the $700 Billion. Yes, it purchases a much needed product. But that money would be best spent. It is a huge part of the imbalance of payments.

If Congress were to just get the hell out of the way, stop kissing the behinds of nut-job environmentalists, and quit wrecking the economy to win elections, the free market (capitalism) would resolve the issue very quickly. In fact, if Congress had not been blocking the progress, the "fuel crisis" would have never happened.

The only Congress is really good as is screwing up and then passing the blame!

Pancho,
I never said what shale could specifically be used for. Also, I never stated or otherwise implied that we could become energy independent just from shale alone.

Second, I inadvertently forgot to also mention coal. (Also Nuclear, etc)

Toward the end of WWII, Hitler ran his entire war industry on synthetic fuel. (Hitler could not depend on Ploesti.) If Hitler could make Germany energy independent using Germany’s coal deposits 60 years ago, The United States can do it now.


mrbmrb
"45 percent of our oil comes from Canada. another 25 peercent comes from Mexico."

I'd like to see a credible source of information to back this assertion up. There are a lot of outright wrong statements being made about oil supplies, dependence, drilling capabilities and resources, etc.

The number I've heardmost often is 70% of our oil comes from sources outside the U.S. What you're saying here is that it ALL 70% comes from Mexico and Canada. If 45% comes from Canada and 25% from Mexico, that's 70% of ALL the oil we use.

Needless to say, there's no possible way that's accurate.

If you're going to post your opinions that's great. But let's not state "facts" that are way off the mark. There are people out there who believe this kind of crap.

Stossel's condescending
I think Mr. Stossell is seriously underestimating the intelligence of a decent portion of the U.S. population.

Nobody I know actually thinks we're going to produce a bunch of oil, keep it here in the U.S. and live solely off of it for the next 100 years.

The key is to make the global markets less dependent on oil that comes from non-U.S. countries. The key is to inject a lot more supply into the global market. We can have a much greater hand in controlling the market price of oil. That in itself will create a certain amount of "energy independence."

This is not "idiocy." It's reality.

It's not a free market
If the market in the US were truly free, then I would agree with Stossel. We're not talking about a free market vs. Government regulations that encourage domestic production. We're talking about a heavily regulated industry vs. a different heavily regulated industry.

I agree with Stossel that it doesn't make sense to pay more money to deplete our reserves first. It also doesn't make sense for our government to subsidize biofuel, just so we can sell it to Europeans.

What we need is a free market. The freedom to drill wherever it makes sense. And freedom from government subsidies at tax-payer expense.

False assumption
Stossel begins with a false assumption which leads him to a false conclusion. He assumes that we will always need oil to fuel our cars. Wrong!!!!! We are in a transition period from gasoline to electricity as the fuel of choice. We can generate all the electricity we need from a variety of energy sources, including nuclear. The distribution system is already in place. Park in your garage and plug in your car to recharge. The internal combustion energy is going away except for very specialized purposes. All we need to do is get the dumbasses in Detroit to start building and selling electric cars. You can drive an electric car for about $10 a week in fuel. See Teslamotors.com

Way down south
I don't think Stossel intentionally used a semantic writing style. I think he simply approached the issue from a different perspective than you or I would have. I think he approached it from the perspective that both candidates are repeating the mantra of "energy independence" and using that mantra to justify more government interference in the energy market at a time when most of the problems in that market are being caused by pre-existing government interference.

Because he starts from a point of origin that uses the words "energy independence" he gives the impression that this is what the article is about. He overlooks this obvious interpretation because he already knows what he really wants to write about, which is the "idiocy" of both McCain and Obama when it comes to proposing government-sponsored "solutions" to our energy needs when government is actually the problem.

He's right on one thing...
It's way too expensive to drill and refine in the U.S.

But why is that? Is it because labor is so much more expensive here?

NO!!

It's because our government puts a heinous number of obstacles in the way!! The regulations that are currently in place are ludicrous in the extreme.

So now we have liberals saying they're ready to expand driling rights. And people believe them. It'a all a crock, folks!

The limitations and regulations they'd saddle "big oil" with when the Federal Obstructionists supposedly open up these precious few new expanses of land and ocean would have the same effect as a total ban. And the Dems would get a bunch of pork passed in the process by pushing through a loaded bill like this Gang of 10 garbage.

This political farce will kill our economy.

Mostly correct but for Islam/OPEC
John's major point that all trade is beneficial works to the extent that your trading partners are driven by rational, economic interest. We do need "independence" from oil supplied by apocalyptic terrorist sources, as well as from price-fixing cabals such as OPEC. Other than such concerns, you get what you pay for, and everybody wins.

Drill now!
It would have to be cheaper to ship oil a short distance than a long distance.

From what I understand the pipeline is very close to ANWR.
So it makes sense for us to drill here. Of course Canada and Mexico may not want us to because the price will go down.

If we do not buy oil from the Middle East somebody else will and they will still have money to support terrorism.

About Stossel's knowledge and bravity
John writes:
"To be for "energy independence" is to be against trade."

Bravo, Stossel, how smart you are!

I just think : would Russia collapse if there is no oil import in Russia?
The obvious answer is NO.
Which means Russia is completely ENERGY INDEPENDENT, by the way.

I further think: is Russia against trade?
The obvious answer is NO.

Master, what did you drink before you wrote this your column?
It seems the influence of your previous drink is still in action...

The more I read you the less I want to.
I'm afraid this was the last attempt.


wiseone
"I think he approached it from the perspective that both candidates are repeating the mantra of "energy independence" and using that mantra to justify more government interference in the energy market..."

If that's what Stossel is trying to say then he's dead wrong.

McCain's plan involves removing at least a few regulatory barriers to allow our great U.S. oil companies to exploit our domestic resources.

Obama's plan involves taxing the hell out of the oil companies and destroying their ability to drill profitably. They've even mentioned the possibility of nationalizing the oil industry. If that's not the epitome of "government interference" then I don't kow what is.

While I disagree with McCain on a few important issues, I am convinced he is 100% behind our free markets. Obama on the other hand is 100% behind government control.

If that doesn't terrify you then you don't know enough about the way the world works.

The US can out produce the World
The US military oil production during World War II as compared to other countries is shown at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_production_during_Wor ld_War_II#Crude_Oil

This is what we, when our freedoms are threaten, are capable of doing. The US was able of producing 3 times the crude oil of the rest of the top 7 world producers COMBINED. AND due to the necessity of war we ramped this capability up in just a few years.

Sure, the world has changed since then, and so have we. Our capability to explore, drill, and refine is greater today and is only limited by the bans placed on us by the US Congress.

Oil energy independence is very doable and we are being threatened by hostile world forces.

Congress had better lead, follow, or lose their jobs in November.

Only 76 days to go until election day and I can't wait.



Jeepwonder, Stan, Paul
Amen brothers!
Logical solutions can be implemented quickly, but not with special interest agendas.

We the people need to become the new, most important special interest.

I say slam them in November! Even Chicago is getting a shot with new candidates. Bye bye Durbin!!

Curt
"You can drive an electric car for about $10 a week in fuel. See Teslamotors.com"

I agree with your assertion that we are headed for a serious bump in our use of alternative fuels. And I'm all for it, especially nuclear. It will certainly make electricity a far more reasonable alternative to petroleum.

But until the price of these mostly-electric cars comes way down and we actually DO build nuclear plants and improve solar power, etc., this is not a viable option. Until we can produce a lot more cheap electricity we'll just be trading one expensive resource for another. Rolling blackouts, sky-high prices, etc. would be the norm unless we pull our heads out of the sand and build up our power infrastructure.

As far as the waste, take it and throw it into those infamous caves in the mountains of Afghanistan. It's a useless country anyway, and maybe we can kill some terrorists with it.

Paul
McCain has been in favor of de-regulation for how long - 10 minutes?

For 30 years in Congress McCain has supported environmental regs that make it impractical to build nukes and refineries, bans on drilling offshore and in ANWR, and restirctions on when and where coal can be mined and burned. As recently as May he was still opposed to drilling offshore and even when he relented on that he remained opposed to drilling ANWR.

When it comes to economics McCain is a mental midget. He voted against the tax cuts because he, like every lib-Dem in the country, can't undertand the dynamics of the economy. He thinks it's a zero-sum game. He also thinks the purpose of the economy is to fund the gov't, when the gov't should be as disinvolved in the economy as possible and, when it must get involved, be subservient to the business of private business.

Now he proposes a $300 million bounty to the guy who comes up with a practical car battery. Aside from the obvious observation that the left claims we already have this battery, there is Stossel's touche response that the riches to be made in the free market from such a development would dwarf such a reward.

When Stossel talks about "energy independence" being anti-trade, he's referring to the kind of isolationist trade policies imposed by many countries after WWI. These embargoes caused the Great Depression. The idea that we can prosper under economic isolationism has been disproven countless times. The energy market is no different in this regard than the markets for food, manufactured goods, and white collar services.

Finally, if you think all the oil we produce under "energy independence" will be sold in the US you are mistaken. We already sell North Slope oil to Japan and we can't even supply ourselve with 50% of our own needs.

That's the way a free market works.

FOWG; h20skier,Brian, et al
The usually astute Mr Stoessel is probably unaware that when an oil company pays a royalty to a US citizen or entity, that payment is a business expense. However, if they pay a royalty to a foreign government, it is a tax credit. Since paying to foreigners gives them more keeping money they prefer to pay foreigners. Since this arrangment is by force of law it in no way qualifies as free trade.

(Got started in the Truman administration as a way of bribing a few Arabs without directly raiding the treasury.)

In addition to which, it used to be that shortages were met by increased production. But after our beloved feds defeated John D Rockefeller (just like he wanted to lose), it became illegal to guarantee prices for the increases. Thus, increases resulted in price collapses and increased production was rewarded by bankruptcies----if the increase was in the USA. If the increase was elsewhere it was and remains rewarded by prosperity. Mr Stoessel sir, this is NOT the free market at work.

Stoessel is right to deride all these "alternate energy" scams. However, if the market is allowed to work we probably will be "energy independent" in short order.

Oil, coal, natural gas, nuclear,
and every other combination there of...

Take off the shackles .......

Doing nothing but yammering only creates more NOTHING....Defeatism, constant criticism and obstructionism ARE the problem.

Now, for my post
I have reaad all the posts, and now I will submit mine.

The price of energy - indeed, all consumer products - is market driven (supply and demand).

Also, prices are controlled by competition. Prices drop in the presence of competition and rise in its absence.

Example: ( heard this on FOX, HNN, CNN, etc., so it must be true) Gasoline prices mushroomed because OPEC curtailed production AND China began buying and hoarding oil in preparation for the olympics. When Bush rescinded the "presidential ban" and the "threat" of American increasing efforts toward "energy independence", prices at the pump fell by almost 10 cents. With the star of olympics, China stopped stockpiling opil - result: price is now about 50 cents lower than it was a couple months ago (locally - a high of $4.05 and now at $3.51).

If/when we increase our supply, competition will lower the cost of the demand.

One of the problems is our $700-800 BILLION trade deficit. If I buy two cars from you and you buy two bikes from me - no way in H*** is that a win-win situation, as John suggests. By expanding our energy production (by every means possible), a decrease in trade deficit will follow.

Something no one has mentioned is it will provide a means of dealing with illegal immigration! It will be a tool, if you will, for demanding Mexico to do something for her people. Otherwise, the moeny we WERE using to buy Mexican oil will instead be used to deal with the illegals.

$300 Million Prize
If one concludes that a certain development is highly desirable, it is right and proper to offer a prize to he who develops it. The private sector went to space in 2004 for a mere $10 million dollar prize.

A super large prize will, while overpaying, attract a LOT of effort, not to mention financial backing. All of which will probably produce results in shorter order than would otherwise be the case.

Robert A Heinlein wrote at length about that form of battery called the "Shipstone". Diehard is to Shipstone as firecracker is to H-Bomb.

There are already elebenty-leven zillion ways of generating elctricity, including the brakes on your car. And draned cheap ways at that.
However, you can't use all this juice when it is generated and you lack adequate means of storing it.

If your car was like your house, it would not have a gas tank. Instead you would have a hose running to the refinery which pumps you all the gas you MIGHT use at a given moment. For that reason, most electricity is "wasted".

A Shipstone sure would be useful, now would it not? I will concede that offering the $300 million on the taxpayer's dime does not pass philosophical muster. However, that money can be raised by eliminating some boondoggles and
changing ongoing useless expenditures into a one-shot outlay for something highly useful, is more than acceptable.


Paul
It might not take as much extra infrastructure as you think. The heaviest use of electricity is in the daytime. There is excess capacity at night. I agree that electric cars are too expensive to purchase now, but the price will come down dramatically as the production volume goes up. Volvo has a prototype now that runs 60 miles on a charge. When the charge gets too low, a 1.8 liter engine runs a generator to produce more electricity. The future may be closer than you think.

Oil, Coal, Gas,Nuclear, and other energy
Factor in 3,000 deaths in WTC, passengers in the planes destroyed Sep 01, when considering the cost of buying fossil fuels from others. Instead of Synfuels in the 1970s by Jimmy Carter and others, if we had made our country self-sufficient with own assets, alternate fuel and renewable energy research, the destruction of WTC and loss of those lives may not have occurred. President of US does not control gangs in this country, so Saudi Arabia does not control Wahhabi (or other terrorists) in their country. And the terrorist groups have attacked all advanced countries. With US assets used, companies would not have gone to other countries, we would still have our "blue-collar" employees working and paying taxes in the US. I don't suggest isolationism, but we need middle class income and taxes paid.
I lost 2 retired, army friends in the Pentagon when plane came through the walls, Sep01. My youngest son worked in WTC in 2000, about 40th floor. So destruction of WTC was personal with me, and still is.

A very disappointing column
(A)Free trade and energy independence are NOT mutually exclusive.

(B) We are buying foreign oil mostly on credit without balancing that trade with exports. This devalues the dollar and increases the already high price for crude oil.

(C) Although we buy most of our crude oil from Canada and Mexico, the high price we are paying also increases the price for middle-eastern oil (irrespective of who buys it) and thus enriches countries unfriendly to us.

(D) The need for national security in energy supply is real.

(E) We have the resources and we need the jobs here.

(F) Foreign oil is only cheaper because of unreasonable government restrictions on our own oil.

(G) The high cost of motor fuel is working an undue and unnecessary hardship on working families. We can't replace our entire fleet of cars and trucks overnight.

You've got to be kidding.
You have the gaul to use the word idiocy in an article that's completely idiotic. In case no one told you, America relies on petroleum. Buying petroleum from foreign sources is as smart as buying oxygen from them. It's not a win-win if they decide to stop selling or their ability to ship is damaged. Try breathing when your supplier cuts back on your oxygen supply.
Your info on our suppliers is garbage. Here's what the Department of Energy says about our sources. http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publicat ions/company_level_imports/current/import.html
If this article is any indication of your ability to research and report information, you couldn't be any more incompetant.

John McCain Supports Market Solutions
From johnmccain.com

Today, Isolationist Tariffs And Wasteful Special Interest Subsidies Are Not Moving Us Toward An Energy Solution. We need to level the playing field and eliminate mandates, subsidies, tariffs and price supports that focus exclusively on corn-based ethanol and prevent the development of market-based solutions which would provide us with better options for our fuel needs.

Energy Independence
The best way to ensure independence when it comes to energy (that is the state of not relying on others to supply our energy needs) is to allow the market (consumers and corporations) to do what is necessary with as little government meddling as is possible (with zero being a good starting point, and working your way down.) Let us drill where we think oil is (drop the restrictions on off-shore and ANWR drilling). Let us build the necessary infrastructure to provide energy in the form of gasoline and power plants. Let nuclear power back into the economy (It's safe, effective, and efficient. 3 Americans have died in nuclear accidents in civilian reactors. And none were from radiation exposure. Chernobyl was a result of '60s era Soviet technology and good, old fashioned stupidity on the part of the operators and is not representative of the safety of more modern American reactors.)

Energy Independence
Energy independence is a necessity if for no other reason, military use. With out our own sources of oil, we are unable to protect ourselfs.


What a really wonderful idea!
Look how much trouble Europe could get themselves into if they were not reliant on the New-Soviets for their energy? The next thing ya know they might actually fight back... well with bellicose words at least! I mean, imagine the terrible pain V. Putin suffered from Germany's head apologizer when she said the Georgian invasion was; "Dis-proportionate?" Ouch! I mean, how could she?

We here in the US must be willing to learn from our mighty European allies. Looks like Stossel has.
Stay up on the porch John and wring your hankie.

EVEN IF THE COST OF OIL STAYS THE SAME
we still have the issue of where those dollars go. If we are producing the oil, we are producing American jobs. If the oil comes from the Middle East, the Arabs get the jobs. If we are producing the oil, Americans benefit from the profits of oil sales (via taxes). If the oil comes from the Middle East, Muslim extremists benefit, at least in part, from the profits of oil sales. Further, our own dollars are used to plot our destruction. The cost of oil is only one factor in this argument.

for wiseone
"what he's really opposing here is government intervention in the energy market."

Where the national security and sheer survival of America is concerned, I would even tolerate government intervention in the energy market, if absolutely necessary.

We've been through this track before. We had substantial government intervention in free markets during the Cold War, as the Government acted to produce technologies (like space travel) necessary to win that Cold War. Without Government action, maybe private industry would have developed kitchen appliances for the consumer marketplace instead of space ships and missiles. But we needed space ships and missiles to compete with the Soviets.

And we don't have a "free market" in energy RIGHT NOW as it is. We have substantial subsidies to the oil industry (just count the tax breaks) and to the nuclear power industry (the Price-Anderson Act). Those were deliberate choices made by the Government to encourage those industries. Our energy sources, like our oil-based transportation system, are the direct result of tens of billions of Government dollars.

If government intervention is the only way to make the West independent of Chavez, Saudi Arabia, Ahmedinijad, and Putin, I would even accept that. Right now, I'm open to ANY realistic proposal that would enable America to tell Ahmedinijad and Putin to shut up and leave the world alone.

The moral of the story is
Stossel's column illustrates a point I've made before:

1. Any discussion of the energy issue as a purely economic issue, without the foreign-policy and national-security aspects, is necessarily deficient.

2. And any discussion of foreign policy and national security issues that doesn't deal with the energy issue, is necessarily deficient too.

These days, the energy issue is inextricably linked with the national security issue as well as with the economic issue. We can no longer afford to set each policy separately without reference to the other aspects.

In a peaceful, harmonious world, we could let the free market and free trade solve everything for us. Capitalism assumes peaceful traders. But much of the oil used by the West comes from places where that's not the case. It comes from parts of the world where terrorism, war, revolution, coups, etc., can break out at any time. And it comes from parts of the world where ideology, like Islamism and anti-Americanism, often trumps rational economic choices.

That's supply risk, something Stossel didn't even bother to discuss.

Supply and Demand?
Supply is not only affected by demand, but the ability of the suppliers to produce. True free market forces are not at play here because of all the restrictions and barriers currently in place for all kinds of domestic energy production. I'd like to see what would happen if we were actually able to drill for oil, build nuclear power plants, etc, without all the red tape.

It never ceases to amaze me`
the number of people who comment on here that don't know atoms from *ssholes but think they have knowledge to comment on nuclear power.

The Price-Anderson Act is NOT a subsidy if you define subsidy according to the dictionary. There is no payment of federal funds to ANYONE in nuclear power. All the Price-Anderson Act does is keep lawyers from running amuck and force nuclear utilities to insure themselves. Insurance for a Nuclear Power Plant is provided through a PRIVATE COMPANY through which the utilities pay a premium.

In addition, the OIL companies do not get a subsidy or a tax break. They get to deduct legitimate business expenses just like ma and pa’s corner hardware store.

Energy independence & status quo shills
When running across drivel like this the term SHILL comes instantly to mind. The trouble is when a shill is partialy correct, it hides bull inside partial truth.
In this case both of the parties mentioned, MCcain & Obama are shills also & are obviously suspect.

The average citizen of the USA has few representitives.

Energy Independence
With respect, because I like most everything you write, I think you may be throwing out the baby with the bath. The short-term goal here is not COMPLETE energy independence. As you say, the bulk of our oil comes from Mexico and Canada. The goal is partial independence from those countries, many of whose citizens hate us and would do us harm, thus removing the leverage of some of the terrorists. Eventually there will be an alternative energy breakthrough, and all countries who choose to be energy independent will be. Do you believe that will signal the end of all meaningful trade (interdependence)? If so, that seems pretty naive. I suppose there are bubbleheads who think drilling is the answer to everything. But give Americans credit. While most of us favor drilling to lessen our dependence on the Middle East, few of us think that's the sole or long-term answer. My guess is that both of the presidential candidates are in the same boat.

Energy Independence
With respect, because I like most everything you write, I think you may be throwing out the baby with the bath. The short-term goal here is not COMPLETE energy independence. As you say, the bulk of our oil comes from Mexico and Canada. The goal is partial independence from those countries, many of whose citizens hate us and would do us harm, thus removing the leverage of some of the terrorists. Eventually there will be an alternative energy breakthrough, and all countries who choose to be energy independent will be. Do you believe that will signal the end of all meaningful trade (interdependence)? If so, that seems pretty naive. I suppose there are bubbleheads who think drilling is the answer to everything. But give Americans credit. While most of us favor drilling to lessen our dependence on the Middle East, few of us think that's the sole or long-term answer. My guess is that both of the presidential candidates are in the same boat.

Energy Security
Mr.Stossel is right about politicians spouting off about
"Energy Independence". They are promising something that
they can't deliver no matter which party they are from.

We can however achieve much greater Energy Security by
drilling for oil and gas here at home.
I won't go through all the reasons why, because most
folks that posted before me have already given excellent
reasons for using our own resources to lower prices of
oil and gas, and to get the government out of the way
of free markets.

fossil fuels
We are dependent on fossil fuels. They WILL run out especially at the rate we are burning them. Its energy dependence now or sometime in the not so distant future. So might as well get on with it and save selling our soul to the Saudis, Russians, Venzuelans who export the stuff. Mexico and Canada do not have limitless supplies.

A reminder that it was Reagan who dismantled Jimmie Carter's gas mileage requirements, and work toward solar and and other sources of energy. We might have some of the technological problems over come by now instead of a 5-6 year wait for really efficient solar panels we are currently facing. And we could be driving electric cars powered by those efficient solar panels. Instead here we sit biting our nails worrying if Russia will gain control over the oil pipe lines running through Georgia that supplies oil to europe. If that line gets shut down the demand for oil increases and prices WILL respond as well even if it is Canadian oil.




energy security is a better term
I think when most people talk about energy independence, they really mean energy security.

Energy security is having secure and dependable access to a variety of energy sources at predictable and economic prices. This will minimize the impact of any combination of two or three events happening in the world.

It will also give us more political independence from the Saudis, Iranians, and Jugo Chavez.

The strategy is not unlike a business continuity plan... that most corporations develop to make sure a single disaster or two will not shut them down.

True
Central energy planning and government-funded prizes are economic idiocy.

Our hands are tied
And the ones holding the rope are the democrats (and wimpy republicans)along with their loony enviro-wacko supporters.

The left not only doesn't want usa to produce oil, but they also refuse to allow Solar, Wind, Geothermal, and other "Alternatives".

We're not suffering from an energy shortage, we're suffering from a Backbone shortage.

Get the government the hell out of the way and let the market fix the problem.

On a related note,

Check out my blog (click my nick) for a humorous take on the reason we're in this mess.

True
"Central energy planning and government-funded prizes are economic idiocy."

JS's statement is true. One of the problems we have is the gvt distorting the market by banning domestic drilling in many of the promising places, and banning new Nuke plants, etc...

If the gvt stopped blocking things, and took the fees paid by oil companies and new nuke plants and funneled them into comercially run investment funds, we would have a natural strategy develop.

OOPs
that last line was to read Prices will go up even if we get much of our oil from Canada!

Also
Convincing article.

Also idiotic is our unnecessary provocation of certain Muslims--who brought us 9/11 as an initial "red flag." Our ally Algiers, I read in this morning's paper, had its police (people who support this oil-rich state) attacked by Al-Qaeda. Each week Al-Qaeda has a new surprise up its sleeve. But it should be no surprise.

As Ron Paul said in the Debates, they attacked us because "we are over there."

John, Why are we over there? We can stay over there and eventually be hit again; or we can take a look at why we're over there and reduce the likelihood of being hit again.

John, What is your choice?

"Energy Independence"
The ideology behind "energy independence" appears (maybe coincidentally) to have been behind India's pre-1991 "self-reliance" (aka "garibi hatao") economic policies--the results of which were disastrous enough for India's then PM, Narasimha Rao, to start opening Indian markets.

Energy Independance
"Energy Independance" is ofcourse a falicy, but we need not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Producing and exploiting our own domestic sources with less regulation and market driven cost and profit in play would allow the world fungible assets to increase enough to drop the crude price below 100 dollars a barrel. Still high enough to profit things like offshore and oil shale speculation. Right now it takes 7 years to get a drilling permit. And the lease for land is 8 years. sounds like a bad plan to make money on. any domestic drilling and development aslo creates high paying jobs and industrial production. Add to that a fast track for nuclear and you have the beginnings of a good solution. We could still be 50 years away from a real, viable mass production alternative. tr

There already is an electric car battery
About 1970 a friend of mine, in Arkansas, was asked to test drive an electric car for two years. (I've ridden in it.) It had six standard car batteries in a drawer under the back seat.

She drove a 50 mile paper route every day. In addition she did her normal running around. The terrain was mountainous, some on highway and some on dirt roads. She also had to go to Little Rock to a hospital there for tests once a month, a 175 mile round trip.

They put a meter on her electrical outlet so they could tell how much power she used to keep it charged. She drove everywhere at 60-70 mph when not actually delivering the papers and not on the dirt roads (35 mph was fast there).

It cost her about $12.50 a month for electrical power to keep the car running. She could get about 300 miles on a charge and drive at 70 mph. She had to buy a new set of batteries after a year (about $300 total cost).

When the owner came to get the car after two years she tried to buy it or another just like it. They couldn't sell; GM had bought them out. But the car was built and tested; they could do that again.

The real problem is taxes. How do you add fuel tax to the electricity you use at home for cars?


Energy Indepence
It may not mean that we will never again need to use energy but it does mean, I hope, that we will not be in a position to be blackmailed by oil producing countries as we can be now. Russia moves against it's neighbors and uses oil/gas supplied to Europe as a means to suppress european protests. Iran can threaten to block the straight of Hormuz to cause havoc with the U.S. ecomony as a means to back us off. Drilling for oil, here, now, will put downward pressure on oil prices reducing revenue to these rogue states as well as to provide a buffer until we can transition to alternative (clean coal, nuclear, wind,solar etc.)sources for power and to wean us off gasoline for transportation (e.g. hydrogen or electric). That is, of course, if the congress does something about drilling and also about the ability of tree huggers to stop drilling, getting licenses, etc. via the courts. It should not take more than a year to process the permits and in some cases less than that depending upon whether it is a new project or a repair etc. Not to mention jobs as some have already pointed out.

The same old bull
The "energy independence" nonsense is the same old bull that Americans have swallowed for much of our history--the fantasy that we can put some sort of barrier around us to keep us from being linked to the the world's economy. It was idiocy in the 19th century and it still is, but Americans just love to be told we can be "independent" in all things. This myth is all wrapped up in lies our parents and our teachers and our politicians told us for generations. And the lies just keep on coming.

I don't think any rational arguments from economists can prevail against such a powerful fairy tale. So we'll pony up billions to T. Boone Pickens and others and 20 or 30 yeras from now, my kids and grandkids will listen to some politician or businessman on the make, or some ideologue who read it in some book someplace that, once more, Americans are "dependent" on some evil foreigners who control our oil or whatever. [I'm tempted to add that these foreigners are sapping our bodily fluids too.]

gov get out of the way
people keep takling as if the government is preventing oild companies from making money. when all oils conmpanies are making recore profits ine the 10s iood billions per quarter, when their stock prices are rising astronomically, where is the fo==government interfering . how mush lessintefereence do you want. how much profit is legitimate befor you stop comoplainf =-g about excessive government regulation, especially when it doesnt exist. whar=er is government regulation over the 100 million acres leased by these oloil,companies, that they wont do anything with and wont giver back. if we did lower tha amiont of givernemnt regulation and the oil companies did increase tha ==e amount of oil available how o we kniow that they would sell the oil to us and not some foreigh=n country. it wll==ill go to the hight=-east bidder as it does now. in that case we would be partially subsuduzing foreign purchases oil our oil. is ther anything to stop themm.

45cal
How sure of that data about the electric car. A modern 48v electric golf cart has a top speed of 20 mph and will only get about 30 miles on a full charge. It uses 4 deepcycle batteries and has regenerative breaking s well.

I have seen one advertised with a solar panel on the top that advertised 50 miles on a sunny day.

It depends on your definition John...
Where is it written that the US can't be energy independent and continue to buy foreign oil? All of the risks that John cites regarding production are also present in any oil producing nation. Perhaps if we were able to produce enough energy to meet our needs, the dictators around the world would have to lower the global price. Then, we would at much less risk of embargos, price gouging, short foreign supply, etc. Most importantly, we could sustain our military in a time of war.


Response to SteveL
"Where the national security ... is concerned I would even tolerate government intervention in the energy market..."

This suggestion is self-contradicting. The best way to get the most energy is for government to get out of the way. Instead you want to use national security as an excuse to obstruct the attainment of an adequate energy supply. This is a classic example of what I discussed in the last sentence of my post. You want to solve the problems of energy production that are caused by gov't interference with more gov't interference. Your argument reeks of flaming liberalism.

"We had ... government intervention ... during the Cold War... Without Government action, maybe private industry would have developed kitchen appliances for the consumer marketplace instead of space ships and missiles."

That's right, but only because THERE WAS NO DEMAND FROM ANYONE BUT GOV'T for "space ships and missiles." There is enormous demand for oil. This argument is just plain stupid. The reason Exxon/Mobil makes $10 billion per quarter in profits is because there is enormous demand for its products.

"We have substantial subsidies to the oil industry (just count the tax breaks) and to the nuclear power industry (the Price-Anderson Act)."

Stupid and false. The oil depletion allowance is a tax reduction, not a subsidy. The remaining tax is still an interference. So is the federal excise tax on retail sales of fuel, which exceeds the amount of profit the oil company makes on that sale. Your statement that the feds subsidize nukes is an even bigger joke, since federal law has made it it impractical to build one.

They say that if you want less of something tax it and if you want more of something subsidize it. Today we tax and regulate oil, nukes, and coal to death while subsidizing wind, solar, and ethanol, yet more than 95% of our energy still comes from oil, coal, and nukes. Get the picture?

America First!
I can't believe I said that--it's not Christian or humanitarian or self-giving or enlightened.

But I've lost my virginity on the issue of national security and energy security, two sides of the same coin.

I've lost my "innocence."

There is something to what Patrick J. Buchanan says these days; there is something to what Ron Paul says about 9/11--it happened for reasons plainly published by OBL; there is something to the book, "Marching Toward Hell," by Scheuer.

Cannot in conscience vote for either candidate. Ron Paul had it right in that debate in which he courageously explained in plain English just why 9/11 happened.

And Stossel gives us this?

Idiocy of Energy Independence
Great article!

One point you didn't mention...probably because it's sensitive. Wouldn't our not buying oil from the middle east impoverish them -- at least to some extent? And wouldn't that create instability and outmigration? Do the American people have the stomach to close our doors to Arab/Persian huddled masses? I lived in the Middle East for a time and made many friends. But I am not ashamed to say that I do not want to see an increase in the Arab/Muslim population in the U.S. And I don't want to see the Arabization of Europe accelerated even more.

Thanks again,

Ralph

Stossel is Right
"Energy Independence" makes no more sense than "car independence," or "banana independence," or "clothing independence." These are all market choices and individual choices.

If the Japanese can make better quality cars for lower prices, then let them do so, and leave Americans free to make that choice. That is, don't set up trade barriers to force Americans to buy lower quality cars at higher prices.

The same goes for bananas. Guatamalans can grow better bananas for a better price. No need to waste $300 million in taxpayer loot to figure out a way to grow bananas in Kansas.

Same for clothing. If the Italians can design cooler clothes, and then produce them cheaper and better in Bangladesh, then that is how they should be produced.

Regarding energy, all the US government has to do is GET OUT OF THE WAY, and we'll have plenty of energy. This is true not only of oil and coal, but especially of nuclear power, where regulations and nuisance environmental lawsuits have essentially killed off a virtually-unlimited source of cheap energy.

Stossel is right. I could not give a hoot about Obama's or McCain's opinions about what is the best way to produce energy; these two nitwits are not experts in that field (or any other field, so far as I can tell). As a libertarian, I always notice that freedom is the answer, no matter the question.

Wiseone
As I said any previous columns, the liberals all have a different definition of subsidy than most people and the dictionary. At least SteveL doesn’t call being regulated to death a subsidy as HalD did one Sunday last year.

And BTW, the oil depletion allowance was phased out many years ago and what they get now is accelerated depreciation of oil wells. Personally I think that they, and any other business, should be able to declare any expense fully in the year they spend it.

Not Often
It's not very often that I read someone who actually applies economics to trade deficit. Some of you are even accountants. In accounting there is always a credit for every debit, that way accounts balance. When a company buys a million dollars worth of office furniture, sure it's out a million dollars worth of cash but it's up a million dollars worth of office furniture. But the full story isn't told until you calculate what the company was able to do with the furniture. How much more productive did it make the company and could they have been as productive with the cash?

Same thing with oil, sure they go the cash but we got the benefits of the oil. How many goods got from farm to store? How many combines cut record amounts of grain?

We tend to think that we're just out the money and forget that we get the benefit of what we buy.

Mark Levin stated,
“All investments are anticipatory.”

Mark Levin 18:41 EST, 20 August 2008.

The Idiocy of energy independance.
Stossel must also believe in the tooth fairy.
Back in the 1950's when the U.S. was producing nearly 70% of America's oil, gas was a lot cheaper. Economics 101--the more we have the cheaper it will be. We need to get with all of the energy producing methods and quit sending billions of dollars overseas that could be used right here in the USA. Sounds to me like Stossel has been talking to Polosi and buying her crap.

The Idiocy of John Stossel
Stossel has said repeatedly before that he wants people to live their lives independent of government, yet apparently self-reliance also meets with his disapproval. Instead, he wants us to rely on foreigners and their benevolence to meet our energy needs.

Tell me, how is a life of "I need [X] to live my life and provide for me" better lived when X = "foreigners" rather than "the government"? Is there some particular reason why foreigners garner such admiration, yet the entity which you are a citizen of is so quickly disparaged? Perhaps Stossel would better consider himself to be a "citizen of the world."

Energy independence is a good idea for both national security as well as trade balance issues (that current account deficit's mighty ugly... so is that capital account and foreign direct investment seizing U.S. owned assets).

If you want to push rugged individualism and self-reliance as guiding principles, then for the love of God, MEAN it.

Stuart Koehl -- irt Challenge Prizes
Your point is valid, with the exception that the prizes you mentioned had the moneys put up by private parties, NOT the US federal government.

It's not the job of the government to encourage economic activity, or to "pick winners". It just needs to get the heck out of the way.

Let George Soros or Warren Buffet put up a $300M dollar prize, and I'm all for it. That prize does not need to come out of my tax dollar.

Don't take 'independence' too literally
When people talk about energy independence I doubt that they literally mean we shouldn’t import ANY energy at all. It’s common sense that we should be able to trade for energy and other products whenever it’s advantageous to do so; but our current situation is the equivalent of living paycheck to paycheck. This is not good for our national security and it gives us no leverage to affect prices. So it needs to change.

Stossel is right on other points, though:

*The free market is the best determinant for viable energy alternatives.
*Politicians should be kept out of the energy business altogether unless they have a background which makes them knowledgeable on this subject.

And Yet
>It's not the job of the government to encourage economic activity, or to "pick winners". It just needs to get the heck out of the way.<

There's a huge contingency of people who seem to think that public or federal lands should be the sole domain of the extraction industries at the expense of every other interest.

Michael Savage
Michael Savage needs to read this and realize that much of our lack of drilling in our country is due to government restrictions and not oil company control. Fuel prices in the 70's were about twice as in the 80's as the new president deregulated the oil companies in the 80's

Independence
The idea that any country can shut the flow and cripple our economy is scary. The Japanese fought WW2 over the fact that we shut off their oil and stopped selling them steel. We need to have a Manhattan Project type of program using our best minds to create new technologies.
Having someone able to hold you hostage over energy is not trade. You have forgotten the 1973 oil embargo.

Freedom is the underlying principle
Stoic Patriot,

We need to reject the premise of defining energy independence by how little we can import. This is about 2 parties being free to make voluntary transactions. The only energy independence worth more than a bag of excrement is independence from our own government so we can have the freedom to buy oil from wherever it can be best produced. We must increase freedom to buy our own domestic energy (drilling, nukes, and coal) without limiting access to imported energy.

I define idiocy as demonizing foreign countries for providing better access to their oil than we have to our own oil. Sheer lunacy is buying into any solutions that increase our own government’s role in regulating our access to energy whether it is foreign or domestic.

Energy Independence is a cash commodity,
To be Independent of any source is to be saturated init to the point it is worthless to you. IE, Saudia Arabia.
But as much as we are oil dependent, the Saudi's are consumer goods dependent, everything from Shoes to Airliners.

Drilling into the Contenental Shelf or ANWR, will not make us independent of oil. It may ease the over all cost of oil, as we export it to others for a profit.

The word independence from oil is used way to much in place of 'Reliance' on oil or fossil fuels to power our Industries and cars or heat our homes.

A lack off or heavy dependence on makes one vulnerable to pressures from those that have it. In an Example, EU relieves heavily on Russian Oil and NG to heat and power they economies. Remove that dependence on it and Russia has no threat other than force to get its way.

Congress needs to back off as Some has suggested to let new enterprizes develope, but they also must not allow those with money and influence to block these developements.

CW of TX says, "*Politicians should be kept out of the energy business altogether unless they have a background which makes them knowledgeable on this subject." I concure with this 100%, and add that these Enviromentalist must be told that if it is with in reason their requests for perserving the ecology will be met but not blindly doing so.

Also, how many of you have seen advertised that a company can support its gas needs from a land file. Just within 35 miles of my town Akron are five landfills just burning off the Methane gas being produced in them. Cap them and sell it to industry to raise county coffers, I say.

Do not let everything good be wasted away because your to lazy to use it.

Well said!
This column needed to be written. Sheer lunacy and paranoia has taken over the energy conversation. It's going to be okay.

I agree, but...
You make a good point as always, Mr. Stossel. I believe the term 'energy independence' is just some feel-good term politicians use to get elected and scare the populous. I agree that capitalism is the way to go when solving the energy crisis. But I do think there is real harm in depending on certain countries for our energy.

Countries like Saudi Arabia, the oil kingpin of the world, are our allies on paper, but there are a lot of people in that country that hate America. Remember 15 of the 19 Hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. They use our money to nurture anti-American ideology and we should be concerned about the way we spend our money over there. We need to be able to have incentive against the people like the Saudis and we don't have that because if we don't buy their oil, there are a long list of nations that will.

So energy independence to an extent is a good thing, just not the way politicians describe it. We can do better, that much I agree with them on.

Pancho --
UA: It's not the job of the government to encourage economic activity, or to "pick winners". It just needs to get the heck out of the way.

Pancho: There's a huge contingency of people who seem to think that public or federal lands should be the sole domain of the extraction industries at the expense of every other interest.

Solution: Sell off the public and federal lands to the highest bidder.

I think it was Walter Williams who suggested that we make an outright gift of ANWR to the various major environmental groups, then see whether or not they're willing to let trillions of dollars worth of crude sit forever untouched. His bet was that they'd start drilling immediately.

It seems like most people still...
don't get it. Free trade is the only way to best allocate our resources. You can choose oil independence just like you can choose to buy only American-made products. You will just have to pay more for it and in the end you get less for your money and the economy goes into decline. We all lose.

I don't think the national defense argument is sound...not with enough military to obliterate the rest of the world several times over.

farmers wife...again
you bring up a good point..that my bro/law talks about...when Israel attacks Iran..and their is an uproar like you have never seen in the mid east..and the oil get cut off or whacked to the point that america is going to get whacked................................
economically...then we shall see how smart stossel looks!
How about being more Independent,as Independent
as possible,etc! I can't believe Iam reading all these comments advocating that we are foolish for seeking more independence..!
elvis

Excellent Article!
Well said.

Drill Here, Drill Now Is Not A Cure
elvis offers, "How about being more Independent,as Independent
as possible,etc! I can't believe Iam reading all these comments advocating that we are foolish for seeking more independence..!"

I think that you missed the point.

Stossel only offers that "energy independent" is a false prophet. Certainly, the more oil that we unearth, the greater the supply versus demand. Always good.

Heck, we aren't even food independent, even though we make more than most of the world combined!

Relax. Drill Here, Drill Now is not a cure, but it does level the playing field.

Mac
More oil is better than less. Greater supply is better than lower. More domestic is better than less domestic. Less foreign if better than more foreign. As NON-DEPENDENT as possible is BETTER than INCREASINGLY Dependent.
It is more reasonable to expect disruption of foreign supply by commies and Sandnazis than it is to fear Acts of God domestically.
LESS dependence on Sandnazi oil means MORE freedom of action to wipe the sandyknickers off the planet. I won't drive my car less or drive a 4 wheeled moped to please the RedGreens, but I would drive less (still won't buy a 4 wheeled mo-ped) if it meant we could tell the Sandnazis to kissourasz and make it stick before we wiped them out.

Stossel's full of crap on this one.

The Big Mick

Stossel Wrong!
Stossel didn’t do his normally excellent research on this one. We can become energy independent and in only a few years if our congress would adopt a crash program to develop the oil in shale of the Rockies. The reserves of these deposits will provide 100% of our oil consumption for 250 years. I’d say that’s independent.

We are held hostage by environmentalist who wish us to return to the 19th century of windmills and water wheels. If your representatives in Washington don’t adopt a crash development program of these reserves, elect new ones.

Energy independence may not be....
an absolute but the closer we are to it the more likely we can keep the cost of energy down. We need a well balanced energy policy in this country not set by the government but set by business. We need to take full advantage of all sources of power. I am a capitalist and I want to save my money.

Energy Independence IS Goodness
I'm not in the mood to read all the current posts so my apologies in advance if my opine is a duplicate.

I'm no economist or free trade theorist so I will accept John's piece with a few exceptions:

1 - the Billions now being sent to others will be sent to our own energy companies, which will increase the incentive for even more energy production and new technology development.

2 - increased profitability of our own companies means increased benefit for direct and indirect (pensions / insurance policies, etc) stockholders in dividends + capital gains.

3 - increased profitability also means increased tax revenues. Golly Whiz, what pol could be against that?

Energy
Shame on you Mr Stossel, how dare you look at this situation objectively. We should be knee jerk fools buying into the anti-trade, anti-foreign camp. On our local radio station some Govt Employee Union SEIU are running smear ads against McCain. If you can't/don't think on your own, these people make sense.

oil war
Increasing the supply of oil here is not "making war" on imported oil; it simply increases the supply which should work to our overall benefit.

Decades of trying to develope alternatives to oil has fallen far short of any meaningful alternatives to oil.

Let's concentrate on everything, but especially what does work: domestic oil production, coal and nuclear. This ain't brain surgery, but maybe such is what the liberal mind requires.

Al

Independence not equal to isolation
IT seems to me that Mr. Stossel is playing up the "isolationist" energy theory.
By energy "independence" those of us who support it want to dergulate the land so that oil comapanies can be free to do what they do best... find,extract, and refine petroleum. Did I mention... make a profit? (but I'll stray from my Pro-Profit discussion).

By allowing the oil companies to execute that in which they specialize, they increase the oil supply, allow us to engage in exportation, create new jobs, lower energy prices, and, experiment/discover/invent/perfect new energy technolgies.

I'm hedging my bets that these companies can not only be more productive and efficient, but also cleaner with their exctractions and refinements then we can even imagine. EPA policies etc, are keeping them stuck to archaic methods.

Dereuglate, and enjoy the benefits of a wealthier, healthier, INDUSTRY ACTIVE nation.

Incoherent Mish-Mash
Stossel is commingling the issue of foreign trade *in general* with foreign trade that *benefits the enemies of Western Civilization*. Attempting to throttle down the latter as quickly as can be accomplished with minimal economic damage is a national security issue.

Who is the Idiot?
Hi John,
I usually agree with your opinions, but in this case you are way off base.
Your economic arguments are valid only for cheap energy.
When oil rises in cost as it will continue to do long term, then alternative forms of energy become economically viable.
In your argument you talk about Carter and the calls for energy independence by he and other presidents. However, you don't discuss the Arab Oil Embargo which caused double digit inflation, high unemployment and long lines at gas pumps.
The oil arab embargo occurred when this nation was only importing about 30% of its oil needs, and the embargo only affected a drop of imports of about 5% of the total oil we consumed.
Now, the United States imports approximately 70% of its oil and over 40% of that comes from unstable or unfriendly places such as the Middle East, Nigeria and Venezuela.

Imagine, what the results will be if suddenly oil was reduced by 5 percent because of a terrorist, man made, or a natural catastrophe in one of those areas.

I don't need to imagine. I remember the 1970's vividly and using that as a model I shudder to think what can happen if we don't work towards energy independence.

Keith Sanderson
President and Co founder
USA Energy Independence dot com.

hold up everybody
This is actually a good point by Stossel but he addresses it clumsily.

He is arguing that other regions have a distinct competitive advantage in the production of energy that the US would not necessarily match were it to begin matching these regions in production. However, and what he ignores, is that much of the competitive disadvantage America has owes to 30+ years of bureaucratic barriers to energy exploration and development. It would be inefficient on the whole to forsake the production of some good or service that we own the competitive advantage in to focus on energy production, at least immediately.

He also makes a good point about the security offered by foreign trade. Trade does make us more secure, nations that exchange goods frequently are less likely to engage hostilely. This was the primary motivation behind Nixon awarding favored nation status to China.

Energy Independence
We can and should have energy independence but not the Obama way.

We should immediately remove all barriers to the domestic production of energy. Oil companies should be able to drill wherever they can find oil (and can pay the owner). Nuclear plants should be allowed to go up wherever the utility companies want to build them. We ought to be able to build coal and hydro plants without jumping through a bunch of hoops. Anybody with a stiff wind should be able to put up a turbine without having Teddy Kennedy on his back. And companies ought to be able to convert waste into energy without the EPA trying to shut them down.

Within 10 years or less, we could achieve energy independence -- if we'd get the government out of the way.

Independence in a Global Economy
John's so right, I've seen oil production, when they invest, they produce.

Nothing new
[It's amazing how ideas with no merit become popular merely because they sound good.]

John, that's nothing new...it describes Leftist ideology since the 1790s.

Drill on the mainland Jon
I couldn't disagree more with Jon! With overwhelming bureaucratic permitting process there hasn't been much oil exploration her. Why look when the moratorium would prevent you from recovering the oil. We can be oil independent. And in a few short years if we shift McCain's emphasis from off shore to the Bakken fields and Anwr. Easy to recover. We can drill ourselves out of this mess. And without expensive shale recovery or coal liquification. Just start looking again in AK and the Mainland.
Go here and see the truths about our known reserves.
http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlfmvwxxgHM

What Jon forgets is the miserable trade imbalance we now suffer with. Lift the moratoriums of 30 years and see all the oil that could be exported...reversing the trade imbalance. Lets bring wealth back to America!

battery
I laughed when I heard McCain offer a $300 million reward for someone to come up with a better battery for a car. There already a couple of mnufacturees well on the way to developing a better battery.

Reminds me of the Astralian government just offering millions (I think $70)as an incentive to a Japanese car manufacturere to manufacture a alternative fuel car in Australia after the already signed contracts to come to Australia.

400 PLUS YEARS OF OIL IN AMERICA---2008!
John,

What have you been smoking?!

We have the proven, technologies, the
proven coal resources, the proven
nuclear resources and technologies
to convert America's huge reserves
of coal into diesel fuel, gas, lubricants,
etc..using PROVEN German processes
developed during the 1920s and 1930s and
used by the NAZIs during the 1940s to
produce thousands of tons of petrochemicals
for the German War Machine.

We can use that proven technology for
peace!

The US was so confident in our ability
to make the US totally energy independent
by YR2000 that President Eisenhower offered
the world America's advanced energy technologies
in his 1953---that's 1953---'Atoms for Peace'
speech to the UN General Assembly!

"Many might fear the awesome power of The
Atom; but, if we do not use Atoms for Peace,
We Most Assuredly Will Use Atoms for War.
Therefore, LET US CHOOSE PEACE."---Dwight
D. Eisenhower, Atoms for Peace speeches
1953-61.

Sounds like John, Neal Boortz and other
???? are so concerned about problems surrounding peaceful uses of the Atom or
those surrounding US total energy independence
that they would prefer the certainty of
Energy Wars.

Choose 1. Peace and Prosperity through
Energy Independence or
2. Want and War by keeping the US
Energy Dependent.

Sincerely!
William J. Bryan III
email: EducationChoiceActivist at yahoo dot
com

"Beware the Military Industrial Complex"---
from President Eisenhower's Farewell Address
1969



smokescreen
Thank you for cutting through the rhetorical smokescreen of "energy independence" talk with the incisive razor of sound free market economics. We are not "addicted" to foreign oil--our need for it is a manifestation of our wealth and success, not of some pathological process. The so-called "shortage" is an artifact of government intervention in the first place. Central planning-type solutions could only exacerbate the problem, which the market, freed from current restraints, could elegantly resolve if politicians would quit distorting it with ineffectual "feel-good" solutions.

Economics and energy.
Because we can produce something here does not mean we are better producing it here. The basic example is onions and lettuce. Two neighbors have gardens. They both grow onions and lettuce. Neighbor one is much more adept at growing onions and neighbor two is better at growing lettuce. It is better for both neighbors to concentrate on that product they produce best and trade for the other.

The Word of the Day is "FUNGIBLE"
Trade is good, and globalization is the connective tissue of a world with credible alternatives to war.

However, "energy independence" is *not* in opposition to trade. Oil which we extract domestically either increases supply if sold on the global market, thus lowering prices...or else it is consumed domestically, which lowers the net demand on the global market (i.e., for the oil we would otherwise be buying), which, again, lowers prices.

Even if --for the sake of argument-- we use only the oil we produce domestically, and cease all imports (so that we are never actually *paying* the lower prices on the global market), lowering those prices is a Good Thing.

Let's leave aside for the moment the easing of the strain on poor people worldwide which would come with the drop in energy prices. Let's not focus on the galaxy of economic benefits which would radiate outward from such lower energy prices. The fact is that a steep drop in the global petroleum price would be a *catastrophe* for the likes of Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, and Russia. Their capacity for geopolitical mischief would take a steep nose-dive, and they would ultimately be forced to diversify their economies beyond the pathological over-reliance on mineral wealth (a point often missed: no one is more "addicted" to oil than a society whose *SOLE* source of meaningful revenue comes from unearned lucre from the deep strata of the earth). A more diversified economy means more wealth in more hands, and a higher probability of societal reforms as entrenched power bases find themslves sand-blasted by an increasingly empowered "army of Davids."

That, my friends (*wink*), is a thing eminently worth doing in its own right.

Glaring omission
I agree with your points about the free market, but to really convince me you'd have to address the problem of our free market trade financing the people who are actively working to kill us. You know that's the main reason that "energy independence" is so appealing to the masses. Otherwise, do you think anyone would care? DID anyone, up until 2001? Why did you completely ignore this issue in your article?

imported oil dependence
I am afraid this is oversimplified. We can not afford to send close to $1 trillion overseas each year and then burn up what we pay for. That money really does need to stay in the country.

All that is needed is for government and its green NGO cohorts to get out of the way. Get out of the way of leases for Colorado oil shale -- which has more than enough oil to replace ALL imports for decades. Get out of the way of oil sands and oil refineries. Get out of the way at ANWR. Get out of the way of nuclear plants, coal to oil/gas, non-corn alcohol, coal-fired electricity. Get out of the way of wind and water power. Get out of the way of power lines and pipe lines. Stop allowing NGO's to sue development to a stop for decades at a time.

Stop forcing power companies to buy solar at $10,000 a KW, stop subsidies of wind and solar and let the market price decide if and where it's wise.

Our energy mess is a classic outcome of centralized government authority. Get out of the way and revolution will happen - on its own.



Pure Market Forces
William, market forces are usually all we need. In the case of oil, however, it has killed the industry more than once. Mid East oil is super cheap. At one time it costs about $1/bbl to produce. Domestic oil wells produce much more expensive oil. Off shore oil from 5,000’ deep water produce even more expensive oil. The virtually unlimited oil from shale in the Rockies will be even more expensive.

In the late 1970’s the price of imported oil leaped from less than $10/bbl to almost $50/bbl, We had lines of automobiles with empty gas tanks trying to buy a few gallons. Every oil rig in the United States was working; every rig manufacturer was running 24 hours/day. Exxon invested hundreds of millions of dollars in the extraction of oil from shale in Rifle, Colorado. At the time they estimated the cost would be about $50/bbl. By 1983, the oil industry was in a state of collapse because the price of imported oil dropped to $10/bbl. Our banking industry was in worse shape than it is today because of the trashing of the oil industry which trashed real estate which trashed banking. After hundreds of billions of dollars of government spending, the Reagan administration righted the ship, but the oil industry remained in the toilet until only a few years ago.

We can be oil independent, but we must legislate a prohibition for the use of cheap foreign oil or our greed will land us once more in the control of foreign governments. More importantly, we will again be providing the fuel for corrupt leaders who encourage our destruction. How can our leadership be so focused on the latest popularity poll as to fail us completely for decade after decade, soon to be generation after generation? We voted them in. We should vote them out!

Financing People Who Hate Us
There is nothing new in these arguments.

I forget which Russian leader said we (the US) were going to sell them (the Soviets) the rope they'd use to hang us with. And look what's actually happened. It just works out, even between people who hate each other's guts, free trade is the best way to work things.

Even when people hate your guts, they don't want to cut off their income, if they can at all help it.

We just need to open up more drilling. At $100+/bbl, it should be quite profitable to open new platforms, retrofit old ones, sink new shafts, etc. We will be sending *less* money overseas if there is *more* oil to drive down the price.

And I'll say again: the demand for petroleum products will ONLY go UP. Where we DO have the oil available, we MUST go down there and GET it.

It's not a matter of "if" the demand, and subsequently the price, continues skyward -- it's a matter of "when" -- the sooner we start drilling, the better.

We could be exporting oil
We can synthesize all the oil we want for a fraction of the current world price if we use nuclear power for the energy input to the process, instead of burning coal to do it.

$8 worth of coal plus nuclear-heated steam from a high temperature nuclear reactor such as the Toshiba 'nuclear battery' makes a barrel of oil.


Shortsighted
John tries to make a living by writing on the extreme edge of reality. Oil is a commodity of finite supply and at some point it will be exhausted. When it's crystal clear that supply is on the decline, John's children and grandchildren will pay the price for this shortsighted view. John and people who share his opinion should realize that today's "energy policy" (do we even have one?) is not sustainable.

Let's get relatively independent
OK, I'm convinced that absolute energy independence has a big down side. But would the USA not be better off if we were less dependent on foreign oil, if not wholly independent?

Not being an expert, I can't help but think in analogies. A farmer would not find it cost effective to grow and raise all his own food, but would he not be better off raising more and buying less of it than an urban apartment dweller does?

Seems to me the same thing holds true with oil. Say we produce 80% of our own and buy 20% overseas. (Maybe we already do and I don't know it.) Price shocks on the 20% won't hurt too much, and if some disaster strikes the 80% we can scramble to replace it.

A distorted market
This has it mostly right but some real flaws.

Jerry Taylor from CATO would be right of the market were not distorted by government regulations. It is not necessarily cheaper to buy oil from overseas, but we have to because the government limits the amount of oil we can produce through limiting where we can drill.

Drilling here does not insulate us from price shocks, because if the price goes up elsewhere as a result of war or natural disaster, we would sell our oil to the highest bidder thereby causing an increase in the domestic price.

What drilling does do is increase the available supply (not real supply which is large but finite)of oil around the world, thereby reducing prices overall -- for people in India and China as well as in the US. What this also does is reduce the leverage that foreign countries have by threatening to turn off the spigots. That ultimately self-defeating strategy (because the perpetrator suffers as much from lack of revenue as we do from lack of oil, not to mention the lack of trade when our economy dips) is taken off the table. We don't ahve to produce all our own oil, we just need to be able to produce enough that any such shocks are damped out.

There is no downside to drilling domestically. It can be done without environmental damage, as shown in Alaska or with our current off-shore rigs. Sure we should look for other sources of power, but in the meantime let's increase the world supply instead of regulating ourselves into the poorhouse with no compensating benefits.

Exactly
Dave the Fave hit it exactly right. We cannot be energy independent because oil is a worldwide product, but we can stop locking up our own resources which help drive up worldwide prices.

The other problem I have with Stossel article is that it only takes into account economic factors as if other factors don't influence economics rather just like economic factors influence other things. An example is how Russia is able to use its economic influence because of its natural gas supply to change the political landscape.

If Europe wants to retain its political independence they may want to take a look at energy solutions that the market might ignore because economically they are not as viable.

Call it ''Godwin's Law'' if you like...
--
...but I don't think it would be appropriate to let things in this forum go without specific mention of the fact that the "energy independence" under discussion is part and parcel of a concept known in political economics as "autarky."

And that it was official policy of the National Socialist German Workers' Party government of Germany in the 1930s.

It didn't work then (indeed, it *couldn't* work then), and it won't work now. It's inefficient, costly, and politically dangerous as all hell. It fosters every international condition required to kindle war.

Hell, it *did*.

Every decent, rational, sane, and human economist since Adam Smith has argued against this kind of spurious "independence" - this quest for autarky - and only damned fools and people with the morals of child molestors speak in favor of it.

That being understood, what can increased exploitation of American domestic energy sources do for us and for the rest of the world's markets? Why it is *STILL* a good idea to open up East-coast offshore oil exploration, the exploitation of natural gas fields, progress in oil shale pyrolysis, thermal depolymerization systems, and F-T synfuel manufacture from coal?

The world market in petrochemical fuelstocks handles fungible commodities the prices of which are resposive to marketers' and producers' perceptions of supply and demand.

*ANY* broadening and deepening of the production base upon which this market depends must have a settling effect on price fluctuations and (all other things being equal) will bring prices predictably into line, stabilizing both the American economy and the economies of every other nation on the goddam planet.

Acknowledging that autarky is both impossible and a Major Bad Idea, the government must therefore GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY of private sector exploitation of this nation's energy resources, and they've got to do it *NOW*.

--

Stossel's flaw
Stossel's thesis rests on the assumption that the crude oil is traded through a free market system. Unfortunately, OPEC is a cartel, not a company. Its members raise prices arbitrarily without competition or accountability.

McCain's energy plan simply allows our oil companies to do their job: seeking and developing new sources. This is a realistic and proper free market remedy.

MCCAIN 2008

Great Thoughts
John Stossel provides a needed balance to the neo-isolationists and their un-witting allies. Increased oil production should not be a back door to protectionist trade policies. But, oil will be a product for 20 to 50 years. Can we develop a greater GDP without exploiting our Oil resources in these years? Better energy solutions will replace oil before oil runs out. So let's use it or lose it.

Stossel's view on this problem!
Let us agree to disagree with this article. John has some good points and both comments from numbers 1 and 2, just to cite two, are presenting an insightful debate on the oil issue. If the solving of this isse were so easy then it would have been solved many years ago. We are still facing it, but now it is coming out and everyone gets to view it in a new light. I am indeed impressed with your many outlooks, for many of you prove much more insightful in your outlook on the future of oil in our future, than do our politicians. Plus you are all present and not vacationing with Ms. Pelosi. Solutions to all potential problems can be discussed with the goal of finding a viable solution, while keeping a sharp eye out for greed, avarice and other skills mastered and subtly used by lobbyists. Thank all of you for your input and adding your thoughts before a public forum.

Two Canes - Sanity and lucidity are easy
--
...and problems considered honestly from their factually verifiable qualities are in essence *solved* problems long before the first physical effort is made to implement their solutions.

The present high dollar-denominated price of petrochemical fuelstocks is one such "solved problem."

The difficulty lies in the fact that the people who have sought the authority to address this problem (and all other matters) in these United States aren't scientists or engineers or even average men and women use to rolling up their sleeves and taking things honestly and purposefully into their own hands.

They're being dominated by career popularity contest winners.

Politicians.

The overwhelming majority of them lawyers.

Now, to a politician the first and most important job - his top priority, after which everything (up to and including getting to a bathroom without soiling himself) is distantly secondary - is getting elected.

His next priority is getting re-elected.

After that, it's getting elected to a post of greater authority, prestige, and power.


People with these priorities (and the skill sets that make for their successful attainment) are the *LAST* sonzabitches to which anyone can ever entrust a problem of any kind, much less one that requires honest, informed, "wonkish" knowledge and expertise in fields like geology, petrochemical engineering, economics, and environmental science.




=====
"To politicians, solved problems represent a dire threat — of unemployment and poverty. That's why no problem ever tackled by the government has ever been solved. What they want is lots of problems they can promise to solve, so that we'll keep electing them — or letting them keep their jobs in a bureaucracy metastasizing like cancer."

-- L. Neil Smith

Call me an idiot, John...
...but I don't see any fault in folding $700 billion back into our "own" economy rather than it going into the bank account of Saud, Putin and Chavez.
I'd like to see my nephew able to go every day to a high paying oil field related job rather than his present low paying mall retail job.
John, I'm not going to call you an idiot like you have done to me. But I think you are way underestimating the abilities of the U.S. worker. We can find a way to get the job done. DD

Darvin - I'll call you an idiot, too
--
First, you're an idiot because you refuse to look beyond the fact that money in the bank accounts of "Saud, Putin and Chavez" represents an exchange of conjured-up fiat currency (which is what the Democrats and the Republicans, beginning with the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, have been making of the once-solid U.S. dollar) for real petrochemical feedstocks.

Not to mention the fact that once the money gets into the bank accounts, what the hell d'you think the bankers do with it?

That's right. Capital formation. It gets loaned out to gain interest, in the process supporting the creation of productive enterprises in the most advanced (which are the most lucrative) national economies.

Like ours. Capital formation is the essential engine of industrial civilization, which is why Communism and other forms of socialism can't compete with the free market - whose advocates were CALLED "capitalists" by Marx and Engels because even those cement-heads understood how central is capital formation to the prosperity of the Western world.

So this hurts us only if we let our politicians "socialize" (i.e., government-regulate) our economy into Communism. Which they'll do, unless you keep the "Liberals" (who are nothing more than socialists) in your gunsights, ready to kill them whenever they get out of line.

The free market is your friend. If your nephew is going to get that hot-stool "high paying" job (whether it's in an oil field or elsewhere), you need capital and raw materials flowing into the U.S. economy.

Box that off in a quest for autarky (see my posts above), and you starve the American economy of both, meaning an increase in poverty and other suffering.

You're an idiot for many other reasons, but I'm reaching the end of this "Reply" box. If you want me to go on, however, just let me know.

You're one helluva soft target, you stupid sumbitch.

--

It's not that complicated...
If we focus on producing more of our own energy/oil, we will be successful (America always is when it focuses) and there will BE MORE energy/oil available.

When that happens, not only will the OVERALL supply be greater, but the amount that the US currently imports will be left floating around out there, looking for a new buyer.

When the SUPPLY increases asimetrically to the DEMAND - the price goes DOWN.

This business of "autarky" is a Red Herring - I haven't heard anyone talking about cutting off all international trade - and Nazi Germany is a bad example anyway, since in Hitler's wildest dreams Germany simply didn't have the resources to even realistically CONSIDER such a thing...

...not that it's being suggested here anyway.

Put simply, it is FAR too obvious that the WORLD is dependent enough on oil that it impacts ALL aspects of life & governance - developing resources to protect ourselves from UNDUE foreign influence, by reducing our dependence/vulnerability on/to countries who do NOT have our best interests at heart - HARDLY meets the minimum requirements for either 'autarky' or even an unhealthy level of 'isolationism'.

- MuscleDaddy

Sorry: "asymetrically" - MD
...wish there were an 'edit' for these moments.

Oil Con
We've heard conservation for oil's sake for forty years. Now we know between shale and off shore we have enough oil to last us for decades. The Congress of this country bolstered by various degrees of competence and concern from the executive branch have failed us miserably.

If Canada and Mexico provide us the most oil then common sense tells us the reserves we now know about would just about make us energy dependent (if we renew nuclear and free up coal)
That sounds l