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Wednesday, June 03, 2009
Jillian Bandes :: Townhall.com Columnist
Canadian Healthcare Coming to America?
by Jillian Bandes
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Jack Layton, the head of Canada's New Democratic Party (NDP), is meeting with Obama administration officials this week to try to help mold Obama's working healthcare plan into something that resembles Canada's. If Layton is successful, Canadians’ liberal health care lobby stands to greatly benefit.

*** Special Offer ***

The Canadian government discourages its citizens from obtaining private health care, and most Canadians have no access to private care in their country. However, since 80% of the population lives within 100 miles of the U.S. border, Canadians commonly come over to the U.S. to get treatment. If the U.S. also outlawed private care, Canadians would be more inclined to stick with their own system.

“There is no doubt that strengthening our system in Canada will be easier with public health care in the United States,” Layton told the Washington Times.

If Obama adopts a national health care mandate, as was promoted by Secretary Hillary Clinton during her Presidential campaign and as is currently in place in Massachusetts, it would prevent conservatives from undermining a public Canadian-style system.

“If Obama succeeds, it helps us hang onto our public health care system because they're (proponents of privatization) always chipping away at it, trying to say that we need to privatize,” Layton said during an interview with the Canadian Press.

Edmund F. Haislmaier, a fellow at the Heritage Institution, doesn’t think there is a good chance Layton will be successful with his lobbying efforts. But the fact that he’s here, and meeting with White House Communications Director Anita Dunn and others, means that he’s serious about trying.

“To a certain extent, this isn’t about the U.S debate. It’s about Canadians becoming more and more aware that their system isn’t working,” said Haislmaier. Canadians are already using private U.S. systems so much that it is undermining the effectiveness of the public Canadian system.

“It’s a theological position that one shouldn’t make money off of health care, and [Layton] seems to share that ideological predisposition,” said Haislmaier.

On Monday, 24 Democrats met to discuss health care proposals, but did not invite a single Republican. Whether or not Layton met with the Democrats is unknown.

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About The Author
Jillian Bandes is National Political Reporter for Townhall.com
Canadian Health Care
I have had the opportunity to ask several of my friends and associates in Canada what they thought of their nationalized health care. A majority of them felt like it was the "right thing to do". Every single one of them admitted to crossing over into the US for health care if they had serious issues. When I asked them where they would go if the US followed their lead and socialized medicine, none of them had an answer.

We'll Love It
Americans are going to love free health care.

They're going to love dealing with foreign educated doctors, paid according to Federal wage schedules with no overtime or other incentives to work harder and every incentive to minimize work.

They're going to love jousting with former welfare mothers now on the Federal payroll manning phone banks throughout the country when the issue is life saving medical care that government regulations say aren't necessary, or authorized.

They're going to love having to wait months for treatment, then being told "no".

They're going to love it when they see our ruling elites getting the best care at the head of the line.

The good thing about this is that the sickest Americans vote democrat. So the quicker they die off, the sooner we can possibly get some spending discipline and maybe the repeal of government health care.


Now where will they go?
Where will dying Canadians stuck in long lines waiting for life saving procedures go now that the U.S. will have a system as useless as Canada's if you're REALLY sick.

Very soon the party that constantly
manipulates the US public with the "back alley coathanger abortion" ruse will have all of us operating on each other with pens and sticks and moonshine to dull the pain. Yee! Ha!

Live long and prosper
The CIA Factbook ranks Canada 14th for life expectancy, the USA 45. This can only be a good development for the average citizen of the USA.

Sri, Not a fair comparison...


Canadians rarely die young fighting for freedom, and they don't have Detroit to drop their rankings.

Canada has few people -and lots of oil, lumber, minerals, and fishing- to support their welfare state.

America has more deadbeat Democrats on Welfare than Canada has people.

It's just not going to work out.







Welcome Socialized Medicine!
Glad to hear that Socialized Medicine is coming to the U.S. Welcome! Let's give Capitalism the boot and good riddance!

Socialism as a political philosophy has proved far more efficient, fairer, and more responsive and more transparent than Capitalism. We need to adopt lots of Socialistic practices to repair the damage done to Americans by the Republican Capitalists.

Salaries of super greedy CEO's who've been driving up the cost of healthcare with no improvement in quality (such as CEO Dr. William McGuire $800,000.00 per HOUR salary in 2006) annual salary of $1.6 billion must be reined in. Retroactive taxes against his sinful and abusive behavior must be imposed to recover and return the money to reduce premiums to insurance holders.

In terms of overall health care, America has been a world loser in terms of cost/outcome ratio for years ranking #1 by a wide margin in world's costliest care, yet only 37th in quality and access next to Cuba. A very poor value for American consumers and proof positive that the Capitalistic model cannot be fixed after 40 years of "reform". Under Capitalism, health care is not regarded as a basic human right or need but as a privelege to be reserved for wealthy elites to enjoy while others are deprived and left suffering.

Medical tourism, medical bankruptcy, and millions more unisured citizens are added to the logs each year as casualties of private care.Private insurance has proven itself an unworkable system.

More advanced countries in Europe (such as France, Sweden, Norway and others) as well as Canada have far better outcomes and far lower costs while the U.S has been wasting 100's of billions on an inefficient system.

Let's face it. Socialism works better as proven around the world. Capitalism has been a dismal failure in healthcare. A failed system deserves the boot just like Republicans got for booted for their rank immorality and incompetence in office.



uh
I'm pretty sure we've been racking up some dead soldiers in Afghanistan. If nothing else our American allies will occasionally bomb our troops (by accident...... ????????)

First - This is Socialism First hand...

"...of Detroit's 194 schools, only 5 had their books in order.

http://www.wxyz.com/news/story/DPS-Audit-Finds-Problems-at- 97-of-Schools/xhgGYlOIekyNTcY-F_Jd1g.cspx

Imagine when these Union-Democrat thieves take control of our Health Care dollars. These are after all the people Obama wants to put in charge of our Health Care - Godless Criminals.

Now, wasn't your post kinda stupid?

Waiting times for treatment
In the past few years, there have been two occasions where my doctor felt an MRI would be useful. Once I had to wait about an hour. The other time I had to wait about 15 minutes.

How does that compare to any socialized medicine system? What is it in Canada? Several weeks?

Why is any sane person even thinking of destroying the best healthcare system in the world just to give more power to a bunch of corrupt politicians?

Americans want free medical care!!!!!!
Let's face it: Americans don't want to pay for medical care. They have been taught that good health - and medical care when they want it - is and should be free.

Competition? Capitalism? We haven't had that in decades in the USA when it comes to medical care!

What we have had is govt price regulation via medicaid and medicare (on which the ins companies do their figuring), outsourcing of medical education to third world countries (25% of docs are foreign grads), govt-guaranteed medical care (but not payment!) at hospital ER's nationwide with doctors pressed into service as a condition of their being able to work at all, and all capped-off with an army of hungry trial lawyers suing almost every doctor in practice at least once in their careers. Imagine what it would be like if almost every American were prosecuted for a felony at some time in their lives! And it is wondered what is wrong? Or why?

The hour is late. It may be too late. But don't worry. As in the UK and elsewhere, the VIP's and politicians will always get whatever they need and any who challenge the govt medical system will be branded as nutcases.

i ask some people from canada
about 5 years ago how they liked their health care,they said it cost about 50 percent of there wages.so hang on to your wallets friends.

No to Socialism
First

Nonsense. Where did you come up with that drivel? Socialism has failed everywhere it has been tried. And, even if Obama gets his way, it will not work here. If you want to live in a socialist country, move there.

The real beauty of the internet is that anyone can participate anonymously. That is why I would not be surprised if I found out that you worked for the Obama administration. You are probably paid to go on conservative leaning websites and pose as an average America. Then you opine about how great Obama's policies will be for this country. I am not buying it.

Socialist nirvana
All the efficiency and fine customer relations of the DMV combined with the compassion of the IRS!

Whats the exit strategy when everyone agrees that it isn't working?

PWQuinn & IL Stan right on
The only way government is going to control heath care cost is through rationing. Rationing will be done by long waits or just saying no.

Rationing will be doubly necessary. When you give something away suddenly everyone wants everything.

Doctors once thought of has professionals will be now be looked upon as lazy government functionaries doing a half a@@ job just like a any other bureaucrat.


Where will
my Canadian friends go to receive excellent medical care? They are devasted by this group in the WH. She was told to wait 5.5 months for a MRI in Canada. She went into Michigan and received the needed treatment quickly.

How will illegals receive medical treatment? Will they have to wait just like the rest of us or will they move to the front of the line?

Layton's Hypocrisy
In the last Canadian election, Jack Layton focussed on how BAD Canada's health care system is. He made an issue of the doctor shortage, wait times, and "underfunding" in general.

His sole motivation in seeking to impose Canadian standards in the US is to prevent rich Canadians from "queue jumping".

Do it NOW!

My advice to all ... While you can, get any and all treatment that you have been putting off NOW! If you don't, by next year you'll be on a 10 year health care rationing waiting list, a gift from the Messiah.

All Praise be to Him!


The Second protects the rest

No to Socialism
In response to the commentator who "quoted" from the CIA Fact book, the data is from the World Health Organization and has not been updated since 2000 ( as they admitted, it was too complicated to rate a health system in a country). Moreover, the factors that were utilized if you actually took the time to look at it rather than just use talking points from a liberal website or from some liberal talking head, you would have studied the factors and realized they consisted of only 8 factors many of which were purely subjective such as "Fairness in Financial Contributions." They did not take into account outcomes and objective factors that would actually make sense in ranking a system. As far as differences in life expectancy between Cuba and the US, there are massive differences between our countries. The US is a melting pot of cultures - the average life span of African Americans for example is 70 years (approximately) and whites is 76.8 years (approximately). Add to that mix, Hispanics, Asians, etc. and it is obvious that the number when averaged can be changed significantly.

False
Few Canadians travel here for medical care. Maybe like 1 in 10,000. The same probably go there to get care who can't afford it here.

Michael Moore
If you believe all Canadians come to the US for healthcare - it is the same as someone believing everything Michael Moore says, such as in Sicko. Clearly you are just listening the 'loud few' and not seeing the whole picture.

Tyler
Why would an American go to Canada to get health care? It is free for Canadians, but they charge non-Canadians a lot of money, and they would have to wait in line with everyone else.

Thousands of Canadians are sent by their own provincial health care system, at tax payer's expense, to receive treatment in the US because they would DIE on the waiting list otherwise.

Here's my idea!
We take everyone who voted for the secret muslim and line them up and one at a time, we euthenize them. After that, everything will work itself out.

Good point Sri.
Canadians live 2.5 years longer. Oh Canada!

Carlos.
40 million plus Democrats on welfare?

Libs Are Wrong! - I
I have told you before that the spending and the printing of dollars by the Federal Reserve are both unsustainable and neither of you believed me.

Well, now the first evidence is coming in that bears out what I have written.

Gasoline prices are up over 19 cents in 2 weeks.

Yields on 10 year bonds and 30 year T-bills are way up because the government must make them pay enough to attract investors.

The dollar is plummeting.

The Chinese laughed at Tim Geithner and Obama need $1.9 trillion dollars before the end of October to fund his new spending. The Chinese are not interested.

Geithner has admitted to monetizing the debt, which will cause hyperinflation.

And, what does Obama and the Democrats do?

They want to hire another 47,000 federal employees AND

Enact universal health insurance, which will lead to higher unemployment, rationing, and fewer scientific breakthroughs.

Plus, he is considering a 25% VAT on all consumer purchases.

Income tax rates will be:

If you are in the 10% bracket, you will see your tax rate increased to 25%.

If you are in the 25% bracket, your income tax rate will go to 67%.

For those in the 35% bracket, taxes rates will mushroom to 88%.

And, the income tax revenues will still not pay off the deficit and national debt.

Good grief! Even the Washington Post, no Conservative newspaper, agrees with me.

Libs Are Wrong - II
"The Social Security Trust Fund" doesn't exist. LBJ started raiding Social Security during The Great Society and it will be bankrupt in 2016

"The Medicare Trust Fund" doesn't exist and Medicare will be bankrupt in 2017.

"The Medicaid Trust Fund" doesn't exist and Medicaid will also be bankrupt in 2017.

"The Highway Trust Fund" does exist and will be bankrupt in August.

The Automotive Task Force does exist and it full of people without automotive experience. The head of the ATF, Brian Deese, is a 31 year-old Yale Law School dropout with no economic, business, manufacturing or automotive experience. He did work for two "Think Tanks," including one funded by George Soros.

I can't wait to get a look at the who's who of the Healthcare Task Force!

If you still TRUST the Government, then you are a FOOL!


But a word to the so-called wise, head to a veterinary clinic. There exists no waiting lists. You can get a MRI faster than in the Canadian socialized medical care. They can get you your meds. If you need surgery, go to a private French clinic, but do it on the QT because Canada will cut you off if they find out that you went out of the system.


Rudolf

Carlos is correct.

Not a Right
Canada has a law stating health care is NOT a right for its citizens after lawsuits made by Canadians who were tired of waiting so long for care sued the government. To solve the problem, Canada declared health care a privilege to stop the lawsuits. This is what we have to look forward to.

The Canadian self study report is available on line if you google it. There's enough there to convince thinking people not to accept one payer socialized health. Even Tom Daschle said we will need to ration health care as they do in other countries. I don't want to be the one waiting - nor do I want my parents, siblings or grandchildren not able to get the help they need in a timely fashion. How crazy we must be to reduce what we have today? Next will be black and white TV and horse driven carriages? Where is our common sense? Outrage?

Do You ...


Really want the same folks who run the Post Office, the IRS, DMV and other to run your health care? If you call the IRS help line, use their advice and they believe you made a mistake, you get fined and may go to jail! Do you really want rationed health care from peole like that?

The Second Protects the rest

I LIVED IN CANADA
Honestly the public health insurance is a costly disaster.

GONE ARE THE DAYS
Gone are the days of our Country being the Greatest Nation on Earth.
Now our Country is the Greatest Insurance Company on Earth.
With mandated:
health inusrance
car insurance
education insurance
mortgage insurance
diaster insurance
State and local government insurance
world-wide poverty insurance
AND
LIFE INSURANCE--When we die, with a little HELP from our friends in the liberal left government, guess who will 'collect' on our Life Insurance Policies? The liberal left government which insured us, that's who, NOT our heirs.
And to government we will be worth far more to them DEAD than alive and KICKING.

The biggest problem is
Obama has publicly stated that does not intend a single payer option like Canada's system.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/index.php
Now he is actively working for a single payer system here in the US.
This is at least the fourth major, outright lie I have seen from him. He makes Bill Clinton look like a petty story-teller with the magnitude of lies he is telling.
It is time that the American people are shown his lies and he is held accountable for them. With the US media showing its total lack of ability to factually evaluate ANYTHING that Obama says, who is going to do that? The answer is the conservative media, which is a group he is trying to shut down through his FCC puppets under the "diversity" banner.
http://www.internationalfreepresssociety.org/2009/05/acting -fcc-chairman-says-no-to-fairness-doctrine/

60%
Why are medical bills the cause of more than 60% of personal bankruptcies in this country?

This is not a joke!

Its about strengthening the SYSTEM
Its ALWAYS about strengthening the SYSTEM! Of all of the grotesque, arrogant, tyrannical power moves NO ONE has any business making in any free coutry. How DARE these grimy little bureaucrats make ANY choice for private care illegal (except, of course, for themselves)

All gov't systems exist for the sake of themselves, and look at them: corrections, education, social services, etc... ALL are horribly expensive, impotent at best and dangerous at worst. Now add "healthcare" onto the dung heap. Liberals are every bit as destructive as, say, Ebola Virus. They turn everything into putrid rot.

My advice is to learn homeopathic medicine and take excellent care of your health. There will be no options for those who become seriously ill.

Tyler, here's what I see
There is a confluence of things at work that make medical care so expensive in the states. Litigation is HUGE factor, and open borders is another. There is also the lifestyle choices of the "frequent flyers".

I have worked fo many years in poor areas and have yet to see anyone denied healthcare- no matter where they are from in the world. Its odd- there seems to be a correlation between the socio-economic status and the amount of surgeries had. A school I work in that is espspecially poor boasts nine kids in the 7th and 8th grades who have had their gall bladders out! Many of these kids and their families are constantly at the hospital for surgery and from their continue to live very unhealthy lives (smoking, diabetes, drinking, drugs, fight injuries, obesity, STIs, etc...).

I believe increasngly self-indulgent lifestyles have lead to increased unwellness; and that ther is a confusion of not having health itself with not having health care. Often the allopathic response is to medicate and operate which often causes more health problems than it solves.

Tyler, things are a mess and going to get a whole lot messier.

Linda's post is all anyone need read
I just wish someone in power actually cared. They don't, because their own private health care isn't going anywhere.

Tyler, while I'm on a roll
Here's an example of why health care is so expensive and bankrupting many people:

One girl in my school, who is an illegal from Ecuador who lives with a family friend during the school year to get special ed services receives the following health care accommodations at the school:

A fully motorized and climate controlled wheel chair because she is completely inambulatory.

Her own physician attending 3x per week.

Her own nurse attendant (RN) all day long

Her own phyical therapist 3x per week

Daily occupational therapy

Her own teachers aid

Her own room and bus

All costs absorbed with daily living pertaining to "health", including "therapeutic trips" back to Ecuador for holiday breaks. This girl is in a vegetative state and always will be because her brain is physiologically underdeveloped and cannot change- yet we spend millions on her alone.

Many people- wealthy ones included- have learned that they can get every accommodation possible and do so. We are being pillaged by those who claim to be downtrodden and needy, and the law is on their side.

North American Union
another step towards

Healthcare Only For the Super Rich
If Obama succedes in destroying America's private healthcare system with his healthcare for all deception, Americans will go from almost everyone getting excellent care to everyone getting terrible to no care--unless you happen to part of the elite class of the super rich who will be able to bypass government care for private care.

Canadian Healthcare
Working in healthcare for over twenty years I cannot tell you how many Canadian citizens are treated in the state of New York alone. People with real problems who would not live if they had to wait. Diagnostic testing key to treatment is denied for months in Canada. The poor in this country that are covered by medicaid get far quicker treatment than anyone in Canada. For all those who want free healthcare you are living in la la land. This will be costly and inefficient at best.

oldsocialworker
While I certanily appreciate your insights and clear thinking, I would like to point out that you are wasting your time with little Tyler -- a high school kid aping the kind of crap he and his little schoolmates toss around in their Young Democrats club under the approving eye of a poorly educated 20-something high school social studies teacher.

As you have vast experience with this inchoate juvenile mindset, you have to know that everything you say to him is wasted on ears full of teenage wax. Until he reaches the age where parroting liberal teachers is not perceived as a way to get the panties off of sophomore girls, trying to educate the little twerp is a waste of your fine talents.

WHERE WILL THE CANADIANS GO NOW?
Where will th Canadians go now that the U.S will have shitty service too?

Cuba has Government Healthcare.

Cuba has government healthcare. Every Cuban can received medical care at no personal cost.

Unfortunately people are still risking their lives to escape Cuba.

Clearly living under socialism is not desireable.

Liberals support Socialism.

Diane
You are lying to prove your point. You maybe saw 1 a week which is really insignificant.

Tommy
You are the high school kid. A proud member of the young wingnut club. Because you only have meetings for it once a week, you spend the rest of your time on here saying other people are in high school without putting together two sentences of thought. The unfortunate part is that most 8th graders are probably smarter than you.

High school was fun though.

Canadians are dying
waiting on treatment in both Canada and Great Britian. So why not close off the only path left to them to get life-saving care by adopting their system in the U.S. What a idea; you could say it is like "killing" two birds with one plan.

Little Tyler
I think we're just going to let the quality of your writing stand in comparison to what else is on Townhall, and allow everyone to make their judgement as to your age, education level, sophistication, and maturity. How's that, son - you just keep posting your little bon mots and we'll let them speak for themselves. Ta ta!

Republican Rednecks have no clue
Let me clue the rednecks in. The united states ranks 29th in average life expectancy where as Canada ranks in the top ten in average life expectancy.

Yes I will put up with a Canadian styled healthcare system if it means living longer.
And as far as Canadian's crossing the border for medical care. US citizens cross the border to canada to buy their medications.

Tyler
Tyler, the numbers of canadians who come here for health care, isn't the issue. It is the reasons they come here. Do a little research while your sitting in your school library hammering away on the keys.
People under the socialized medicine of canada and england often are made to wait weeks, sometimes months for a procedure or treatment that they can obtains in an outpatient fashion in a privatized health care system.

Jeffery
"Where will th Canadians go now that the U.S will have shitty service too?"

Canadians live long then US citizens they have a lower infant mortality rate.

Maybe a few rich canadian's come over hear to get the care that the rest of us are denied because we are not rich.

And if you say that Health Insurance does not deny or ration health care you are stupid and disullusioned!

Poor Canadian's are dying?
Of course the poor canadian's are suffering because of their inadaquete health care system.
They only live 2.5 years longer on average then we in the US.

Poor Canadians and their poor healthcare system!
I don't know if I should cry for the poor Canadians or the clueless republicans on this board?

Canadian health care
Well, that should put us 7 points up the UN
scale anyway. It's a start, but I would like
to try for Italy's or France's standards.
Why settle for less than #1 and #2.

a viable option for health care

re:
"Imagine if we each as individuals went out and shopped for our own health care. If we didn't have to sacrifice wages for the employer to provide it or pay taxes for the government to provide it, we would have enough to pay for health care. We might also think twice about using more expensive options for health care for minor problems."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

There have been local area experiments where individuals contracted directly with physicians rather than using third part payers (guvment or insurance)... costs went way down and satisfaction went way up all-around (doctors and patients) as immense paperwork and bureaucracy was eliminated.

Doctors hire multiple people JUST to handle the 3rd party paperwork.

But the guvment WANTS to be in the loop because that is where the 'Crats get their power.

Then again, guvment is ALREADY involved (Medicare/Caid) in 50% of all medical claims-- how's that working out for you?

NUTS?
Are these people nuts? With Canadians coming
across the border to get quality and timely
health care they want to export their substandard
system to us???

On the issue of Canadians living a bit longer,
what are the external factors involved? Maybe
they actually live a healthier lifestyle because
they can't run to the doc with every little
sniffle???

lies, damm lies and statistics
re:
(spelling corrected)
Poor Canadian's are dying?
Of course the poor Canadian's are suffering because of their inadequate health care system. They only live 2.5 years longer on average then we in the US.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You can "prove" many things with statistics... 25% of our population is black and Hispanic-- Canada does not have its average dragged down by those groups with shorter life expectancies.

And when they really want surgery, Canadians flock to America.

oracle1
It ain't working out very well at all for me.
I've just recently had 2 rounds with Medicare
and I can't believe they want to turn over all
the country's health care to whackos like that.

In the first case I found a source for the
supplies I needed at a savings of about $150
($65 as opposed to over $200) and they would
not pay it because the supplier was not a
"Medicare approved provider". Go figger!

Oh God...
Oh hell no!

Oh Canada, go back to where you came from.

So where will Canadians go for their health care then?

Prescription Drugs
Paul, the reason drugs are expensive in this country is we, U.S. citizens, pay for the development of the majority of the new drugs in the world which take years and millions of dollars to develope. These other socialized medicine nations fix the cost that the drug companies can charge for them. The companies therefore are forced to recoup to cost here at home instead of spreading across all countries and people which would make it cheaper here.

Questions to ponder
(1) Since NAFTA was established, how many Canadians have moved south either temporarily or permanently?

Answer: in 1998, the number stood at 660,000 (I was one of these, frustratingly delayed in converting my temporary worker status to Green Card)--and that was the number ACTUALLY PRESENT in the US; cumulatively, over a million

(2) Correspondingly, how many Americans have moved north?

Answer: Cumulatively--including USC's marrying Canadians and moving to Canada, AND US-born (to Canadian couples including NO USC's or Green-Card holders) anchor-babies moving back with parents...less than 100,000!

Not exactly a ringing endorsement for Canada.

"DearLeader's" speech
6,000 Words long? Yikes!

Our 'DearLeader' is acting more & more like Castro...

He's earned a new 'Nickname'
O'Blah-Blah-ma

Nationalized Health Scare...
As the US debates if to adopt Nationalized Health Care...

33,000,000 Canucks...85% of whom live less than 100 miles from a US border, are nervously '$'hitting Bricks wondering what the: John 'F'-ing Kerry are they going to do when they need immediate life saving health care?

Ain't Socialism grand...


To Tyler 60%
Once again, you need to check your sources. The "study" although conducted by Harvard (I know a big a name), was entirely funded by the Robert Johnson Woods Foundation. One of their main missions is to ensure universal healthcare coverage and has been for decades. The CEO of the company was on Hillary Clinton's first task force back in 1993 so the study that was conducted was unlikely to be fair. The first study that Harvard was conducted that Bill Clinton cited during his re-election run (also conducted by Harvard) was demonstrated to be biased. Funny how that works. By the way, their sample size for this study was only about 2100 people. Not very large to come to the amazing conclusion that 60% of all Americans that file for bankruptcy file due to medical bills. Lets also not forget that when one has a serious medical condition, other things happen such as a lost job or leaves of absences, etc that are the actual cause of bankruptcy not medical bills. These "studies" don't take those issues into account.

Here's your glorious Canadian system:
Surgery postponed indefinitely for 1,000 Kelowna patients
- Cathryn Atkinson, April 8, 2008 [Globe and Mail]

Majority of Que. dentists quit health-care system
- March 27, 2008 [CTV.ca]

Why Ontario keeps sending patients south
- Lisa Priest, February 22, 2008 [Globe and Mail]

Will Socialized Health Care in the US Kill Canadians?
- Don Surber, March 3, 2008 [Acton Institute]

Wait times for surgery, medical treatments at all-time high: report
- October 15, 2007 [CBC News (Canada)]

The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care
- David Gratzer, Summer 2007 [City Journal]

Cancer patients question why PET scan not covered
- May 28, 2007 [CBC News]

BC Medical Association: Waiting Too Long for Hip and Knee Surgery Costs $10,000 Per Patient-Maximum Wait Times Should Be No Longer Than 6 Months
- June 28, 2006 [CCN Matthews]

Ont. physician turns away patient for being 55+
- March 17, 2006 [CTV.ca]

Canada inches toward private medicine
- Rebecca Cook Dube, August 8, 2005 [CS Monitor]


Read more about it:

http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/healthcare/socialized.ht ml#canada


More notes
If the consultant had at least been Ralph Klein (successful as mayor of Calgary and as Premier of Alberta), then there would be much more credibility than with Layton.

Oops, I forgot one factoid: Klein is of Conservative Party (originally PC, stayed in after merger with Reform/Alliance--showing he actually has conservative principles, which are anathema to the US-misruling Dhimmicruds)!

Once the government...
...controls health care, they will literally have the power of life and death over us. The Evil Empire didn't die, it moved west!

The way I see it is
those who voted for Obama and marxism are the ones most likely to need healthcare...it's beginning to look like they are prime targets. If I had voted for him ...I wouldn't tell a soul.

Blame organized medicine
I'm a physician. Read the chapters on health care in Milton Freidman's "Capitalism and Freedom". The first time I read it I was angry at old Milton because I had absorbed all of the prejudices of doctors, But after a while realized that if the same was true of other industries and businesses that go into partnership with the govt to regulate their competition and arrange monopoly power for themselves, it was true of my own profession, as well. All that really needs to happen in order to have a free market in health care (which we haven't had for over a century) is for the doctors themselves to repudiate their partnership with the govt. Of course, this isn't going to happen. The ratchet Maggie Thatcher desribed will keep on pumping.

TESTING ONE TWO THREE
It's time for a test of Canada's system. Somebody go ahead and cap this Jack Layter in the center of his forehead with a 45 calibur round from about 6 feet away. Curious to see how fast, efficient, etc., the service is. He's the perfect testing Subject since he is choosing to inject himself in a scenario that will involve life or death for thousands.

US heading down a slippery slope
I am from Canada and watching Obama turn America into a Marxist state is extremely frightening. The Canadian health care system is woderful if you have a cough or a sneeze, but if you have a serious medical condition you are screwed. A broken ankle in Calgary took 19 hours in emergency to get looked at. I know many people that have went to the US to receive life saving medical help and no, they were not rich. Also, Jack Layton is not a very well looked upon person in Canada, he is commonly know as "snake-oil salesman" Layton.

As to little Tyler's fact spewing, What is the population of Canada? Where is the majority of the population located and where did you get your numbers for Canadians seeking medical attention in the US.

I pray for your country and the slippery slope it going down.

Greg..
Why don't American physicians lobby as an industry group for their own cause? Why can't doctors form their own healthcare mall? I am currently undergoing treatment for a detached retina. My retinologist is brilliant. Columbia undergrad, Harvard Med, residency at Emory Hospital in Atlanta. He knows the industry as well as anyone. Yet they - physicians as group - do nothing to help the situation evolve. One of the earlier posters had it right, Americans want free healthcare. Isn't Obamacare a threat to your livelihood?

It's funny
Everyone here claiming to know it all about Canadian healthcare must have talked to one of the 10 conservatives in Canada.

The fact is the most Canadians think the US healthcare system is a joke.

Not one average Canadian comes to the US for healthcare.

Why? Because they don't want to re-mortgage their house.

Wake up people.




To Tyler
Tyler writes:
"Everyone here claiming to know it all about Canadian healthcare must have talked to one of the 10 conservatives in Canada."

Why don't you read some of these stories below, of the wonderful Canadian system, written by the Canadian press and not just conservatives.

It's interesting that the people who think it's a good system are the ones that haven't had to go in for anything serious yet.

http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/healthcare/socialized.ht ml#canada


Canadia Healthcare
Is it just me or is Tyler a planted mouthpiece on this thread? Just so everyone knows, Canada has a Conservative government in place and they would win hands down if there was another election called, according to Canadian polls.
80% of Canadians live within 100 miles of the US/Canada Border. In Canada it is ver easy and cheap to get traveller's medical insurance. Get the insurance, go for a southerly drive and go see a doctor. This is very common.
We also have "Snowbirds". Snowbirds are people who vacate Canada for the winter months and head down to Cali or Arizona. If you have problems just leave early. Most of them have doctors in the US, as well as Canada.

This is what you have to look forward to, if health care is put under Government control.

-Extremely long waits in Emergency
-Maximum 10min with family doctor
-6 to 18 month waits for ECG, MRI's and CT Scans
-3 to 6 month wait for Surgery after getting your ECG,MRI,CT scan done.
-Incompetent doctors who rush, due to being paid per visit (see 10min with doctor)
-Specialists are overbooked, because no doctor wants to come to Canada and get paid peanuts

Welcome to the wonderfully, unfufilling state of socialism.



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