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Sunday, June 21, 2009
George Will :: Townhall.com Columnist
Taking a Razor to the President's Plan
by George Will
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


WASHINGTON -- To dissect today's health care debate, the crux of which concerns a "public option," use the mind's equivalent of a surgeon's scalpel, Occam's razor, a principle of intellectual parsimony: In solving a puzzle, start with the simplest explanatory theory.

The puzzle is: Why does the president, who says that were America "starting from scratch" he would favor a "single-payer" -- government-run -- system, insist that health care reform include a government insurance plan that competes with private insurers? The simplest answer is that such a plan will lead to a single-payer system.

Conservatives say that a government program will have the intended consequence of crowding private insurers out of the market, encouraging employers to stop providing coverage and luring employees from private insurance to the cheaper government option.

The Lewin Group estimates that 70 percent of the 172 million persons privately covered might be drawn, or pushed, to the government plan. A significant portion of the children who have enrolled in the State Children's Health Insurance Program since eligibility requirements were relaxed in February had private insurance.

Assurances that the government plan would play by the rules that private insurers play by are implausible. Government is incapable of behaving like market-disciplined private insurers. Competition from the public option must be unfair because government does not need to make a profit and has enormous pricing and negotiating powers. Besides, unless the point of a government plan is to be cheaper, it is pointless: If the public option conforms to the imperatives that regulations and competition impose on private insurers, there is no reason for it.

The president characteristically denies that he is doing what he is doing -- putting the nation on a path to an outcome he considers desirable -- just as he denies any intention of running General Motors. Nevertheless, the unifying constant of his domestic policies -- their connecting thread -- is that they advance the Democrats' dependency agenda. The party of government aims to make Americans more equal by making them equally dependent on government for more and more things.

Arguments for the public option are too feeble to seem ingenuous. The president says competition from a government plan is necessary to keep private insurers "honest." Presumably, being "honest" means not colluding to set prices, and evidently he thinks that, absent competition from government, there will not be a competitive market for insurance. This ignores two facts:

There are 1,300 competing providers of health insurance. And Roll Call's Morton Kondracke notes that the 2003 Medicare prescription drug entitlement, relying on competition among private insurers, enjoys 87 percent approval partly because competition has made premiums less expensive than had been projected. The program's estimated cost from 2007 to 2016 has been reduced 43 percent.

Some advocates of a public option say health coverage is so complex that consumers will be befuddled by choices. But consumers of many complicated products, from auto insurance to computers, have navigated the competition among providers, who have increased quality while lowering prices.

Although 70 percent of insured Americans rate their health care arrangements good or excellent, radical reform of health care is supposedly necessary because there are 45.7 million uninsured. That number is, however, a "snapshot" of a nation in which more than 20 million working Americans change jobs every year. Many of them are briefly uninsured between jobs. If all the uninsured were assembled for a group photograph, and six months later the then-uninsured were assembled for another photograph, about half the people in the photos would be different.

Almost 39 percent of the uninsured are in five states -- Florida, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California, all of which are entry points for immigrants. About 21 percent -- 9.7 million -- of the uninsured are not citizens. Up to 14 million are eligible for existing government programs -- Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP, veterans' benefits, etc. -- but have not enrolled. And 9.1 million have household incomes of at least $75,000 and could purchase insurance. Those last two cohorts are more than half of the 45.7 million.

Insuring the perhaps 20 million persons who are protractedly uninsured because they cannot afford insurance is conceptually simple: Give them money -- (refundable) tax credits or debit cards (which have replaced food stamps) loaded with a particular value. This would produce people who are more empowered than dependent. Unfortunately, advocates of a government option consider that a defect. Which is why the simple idea of the dependency agenda cuts like a razor through the complexities of this debate.

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About The Author
George F. Will is a 1976 Pulitzer Prize winner whose columns are syndicated in more than 400 magazines and newspapers worldwide.
 
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NHS
If you think Insurance bureaucracy is bad, wait till you see the Gov't at work. In NZ NHS, Herceptin is approved for 112 weeks, instead of the 52 weeks recommended for tx of breast CA.

Doctors are MDs
We are MDs, not PhDs. Why this is important is the following: the pattern of education is 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, then 3-8 years of residency (Family Practice being 3, Neurosurgery now up to 8). So anywhere from 11-SIXTEEN years of formal education is required. (Obama had 7)Phds tend to have 4 years of college and then a four to six year post-grad course.

However, the concept of giving MDs and hospitals tax breaks for uncompensated care is a good one---limited gov't bureaucracy, and acceptance of care means that the pt agrees to have info released to IRS auditors. Give the MDs and hospitals the Medicare rate for this---that would be useful.

DEMS MISLEAD PUBLIC ON HEALTHCARE PT A
Here we have the DEMS always needing a bigger shovel for the level of UTOPIAN propaganda they want to throw at the UNSUSPECTING PUBLIC.

wanna? know the latest??? Michael moore made a progpaganda film where they attempt to bamboozle the PUBLIC by claiming CUBA'S healthcare is better than the USA ....and that the USA should go to the CUBAN model for healthcare.

WANNA KNOW??? what the reality is and whaaat they are really HIDING... the reality is in CUBA people have to BEG FROM TOURISTS for allergy inhalers and aspirin. SOC HEALTHCARE is used as POPULATION CONTROL.

You can bet if Americans are allowed to be bamboozled into Socialist healthcare DEMS will make SURE USA is WORSE OFF than CUBA.

According to the new stimulus if your child needs antibiotics and the GOV only wants to give them Asprin or NOTHING guess whaaat they will get ASPIRIN or NOTHING.

Whats worse.. if your/adult/child are X percent sick they ARE LEFT TO DIE.

Soc healthcare is MORE expensive AND gives NO HEALTHCARE. We are no scholar, but you don't need to be a scholar to SEE whaaat is wrong with the DEMS scenario.

MEDICARE is not a HAND-OUT and neither is SOC SECURITY... WHY would anyone whom has worked for so long and paid into the SOC SECURITY AND MEDICARE system want to allow themselves to be 'abandoned' at the mercy of SUB-STANDARD healthcare at a time when their health is frail.


DEMS LIED to claim our healthcare system is broken and SOC SECURITY AND MEDICARE CANNOT BE FIXED

healthcare and school
I have to agree with another post by Joe, round up the immigrants, put more officers on border patrol and give back to the doctors. Many of the Dr's who earn their PhD's find themselves with a load of debt. It would be great if doctors were able to care for non insured people for a tax right off or have a certain percentage of money (from the government) thrown towards their student loans. I haven't done the research but if those who can not receive public aid needed help it would be alot easier and a bigger pay off for doctors to receive a break in some way NOT raise everyones taxes!!!

George Will, Taking a Razor to the Presi
Health costs are too high for most people. The fantasy sold by politicians in Washington, and bought by too many Americans is that the federal government can provide everything in healthcare "affordably." The reality is if healthcare is unaffordable for people as individuals it is also unaffordable for government. So costs must be cut.

The best way is to cut costs is by providing people with choices: real choices in health insurance, drugs, and hospitals. Not the economic protected market for health care providers we have today. The worst way to cut costs is to have government do it where service will be cut, health choices reduced, and government agencies healthcare providers are even more protected.

Health Care Costs/Savings
I know this sounds simplistic, but one of the opportunities for big time immediate health care savings, let alone getting rid of all types of other chatter going on about welfare, education costs, dual languages, entitled citizenship through birth, etc., is to round up all the illegals in this country and show them the door. Might have to endure some upfront costs, the blabbering of the ACLU, Pelosi, etc., but long term there would be a tremendous savings, and even would solve a LOT of this country's issues.

Health care
Where under the proposed Obama system would there exist any incentive for U.S. companies to continue to offer their employees coverage?

Example: The average 250 employee Manufacturing operation incurs approx. $1,500,000 in expense to provide coverage. Also deducting the cash outlay for Income Tax purposes. Which at a 34% rate amounts to a $510,000 savings in taxes.

If coverage is eliminated, and employees
had to join the new and improved "Obama-care" the tax deduction goes away, but $990,000 in net expenses would be saved ($1,500,000 - $510,000). I'm sure their would be some added employer tax/offset if no coverage is provded...but the way these guys do their math the incentive to dump plans would still be advantages. In the end everyone gets subpar care which will come as no suprise.

health care
Mr. Wills is right on the money I only hope we can stop another goverment wastefull program, the goverment cant run the post office,amtrack,
medicare and themselfs. Please read FAIR TAX
to stop what is happening today

ok, folks..... who gains?
Look closely at who stands to gain from a government monopoly healthcare....
SEIU..... organized by one Wade Radke, who also organized ACORN... Huge Obama supporters

..."Help Win REAL Health Care Reform
Every American deserves health care, and we're doing our part to make that a reality!
As part of our campaign to win REAL health care reform, SEIU Healthcare Pennsylvania is recruiting hundreds of volunteers to join a in a national day of action in Washington, D.C. on Thursday, June 25. We will be participating in a rally, lobbying in the halls of the Capitol, and joining some of our elected allies in town hall meetings..." from their PA website http://www.seiu1199p.org/

General Electric, who's CEO is Obama's close advisor, and source major campaign contributor. "....General Electric (NYSE: GE - news) (GE) is launching a $6 billion health-care initiative that, in size and scope, rivals its "ecoimagination" marketing ADVERTISEMENT
campaign and product development push into green technologies.... http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/090508/244/ikz95.html

Don't forget, GE owns NBC, CNBC, MSNBC.

Does any really believe that this has anything to do with concern about insuring the small percentage of uninsured Americans?!?!?! It's all about the money, and more political payback to contributors.

They're perfectly willing to destroy our healthcare system, lower the quality of services to consumers, to handsomely reward political cronies! WAKE UP! OPPOSE government controlled healthcare! Dems are trying to push it through as a "crisis", again disclosing as little as possible to the people, as little debate as possible. Like cap and trade, it's a scam!

Health care cost?
Doctors, nurses, technicians even the drug companies all contribute directly to our health care when we need it. Or can get it.

Why is there this 30-40% burden on top of them called the "Insurance Company". They do nothing to contribute to our care.

They are "Non Value Added" my friends.

In America Since 1627

I Can't Believe
That HENRY:IL and this many TH commenters read this article from a Hater today. Henry even wants his author to be President of the U.S. Henry probably voted for Obama like the author did, I would assume. Hey Henry, have you thought about Will may hate something you do, like eating ice cream with your children at Braum's. Be careful for you wish for, this is why Obama is President. George is a sicko, and a Socialist that believes he is in charge of telling you how you should live your life and raise your children. He has zero creditability with me. Consider me a troll when George is on TH.

Aptly named
The combination of open borders and free health care makes Universal Health Care the best named government program in memory.

Obama's misguided policies
George Will for PRESIDENT!
Obama is trying to be the Abe Lincoln of the 21st century--how soon can we get him to Ford Theater?

Obama, The Janus

He says that all people will get free health care, but he cannot.

He says that all those making under $95K will not pay taxes, but he lies.

He says that the US should not meddle in Iranian internal affairs, he is a moron and a young woman died buried alive.

He said that we should dialogue with North Korea, but they are ready to nuke Hawaii and Alaska.

He has begged communist China (which employes slave labor) for money, but was laughed at by the country.

He gave $150bn to the IMF, but Russia and Brazil have purchashed gold.

He won Vermont, but they now want to secede.

He said that Global Warning is a crisis, but Fat Al Gore is unable to explain why New Jersey froze in June.

Obama Lied And People DIED.

It's even more simple
The best argument I've heard, yet:
As auto insurance does NOT cover oil changes, tires, etc; health insurance covers EVERY ASPECT of health!
What a starting point!
And lets agree to change the title of the health industry to the- more accurate -
sick industry---
It may help in reducing enery put into a negative-describing empire!

Class warfare
All that needs to come out about the Obama health care plan is simply that everyone will pay more for less. As long as Obama's supporters believe that only the "evil rich" will pay either through more taxes or less benefits, they will be all for it. Obama won on a platform of pettiness and jealousy-period.

Summers of La.
Yes, I've read your earlier posts and you make some valid points. But I directed my view about no insurance for ILLEGAL aliens to the the non-employed. Sorry I didn't specify. Regardless, it has got to stop, no matter what methods are utilized.

Google "Envision Hospital Corp"
and you will see the mess that healthcare is an why. You may also google "Paul Tuft", it's CEO. The article appeared in the AZ Republic (repugnant) yesterday. For profit has a new face.

Stand with Iran!
I called the White House Comment Line (202)456-1111 this a.m..

I told the operator that the wreath on my front door was adorned with BLACK and GREEN ribbon, that I had battery powered candles in my windows also adorned with the BLACK and GREEN ribbons.I told her that it was my way of showing support for the BRAVE and BEAUTIFUL Iranian People! Then I asked...,What is our President doing? SILENCE!

Please show your BLACK and GREEN ribbons. Call the comment line and let Jimmy Carter Jr. know what you are doing. Remember NEDA!

After Sept. 11, 2001 it was the people of Iran who displayed candles in their windows as a show of sadness and support for the United States! the rest of the Muslim world were dancing on rooftops in celebration!

One advantage of the public option
is that when the Republicans return to power (as they eventually will), they can raise the premiums (to cover the excessive costs) so that the government plan will become non-economic. Then it can be shut down.

One only hopes that the Repubs will have the balls to do it.

The smartest man in the room
Once again, George Will demonstrates he is the smartest man in the room. Well said, Mr. will

Land of the free?
Russia is looking pretty good compared to the disaster coming in our health system.

REPEAL MEDICARE!
this, and other juicy tidbits of wisdom from Milton Friedman, circa 2001.

http://www.hoover.org/publications/digest/3459466.html

(so you know...i'm eligible for medicare in about 15 months)

I Bet That You Libs...

Are the possibly Philippians that entered Italy with Kennedy bearer bonds that were dated in the 1930s worth over $260bn.

And, that you can sing like Susan Boyles.

And, believe in the spew of Michael Moore.

And, know the words of L'Internationale.

And, believe that neither Progressivism nor the 1960s died.

Your cancer is killing the patient, America.

Ouck Obama and you.

Advance of dependency agenda
Solid article ...
The "believers" I think imagined better government ...
Perhaps top down pruning, improvement, etc. of gov's existing, staggering, set of involvements ...
Who could have imagined a set of leaders that anticipated a gov that needs deep, dramatic, correction ... would instead quickly extend it's problematic reach into new, expansive, complex involvements ...
These kind of moves wouldn't see the light of day in the private sector!

Rowly the Victim
An Irrelevant Congress

The Democrats in congress worked so hard to discredit George Bush for eight long years. Their BDS was breathtaking!

-GWB was a total failure!-`

The last two years they tried to lose the war and deliberately ruined the economy to kill any chances the Republicans had to make any strides in the election.

-So you are a Comedian also, GWB vetoed all progressive bills. Before that he never saw a Republican spending bill he didn't like. so blame the dems all you want. You cant point out a single bill that they (Dems) were able to pass, Bush vetoed them all. Cheney: "Deficits dont matter".-

Now,they are irrelevant. The man 'who walks on water' has made them nothing more than rubber stamps for him. He doesn't even ask their opinions about the unconstitutional decisions he has made.

-Only 5 months little lady, we'll see about the next elections now wont we? I think with all your propaganda and all. We still have a good chance of beating the crap out of you Conservative terrorists.-

Pathetic.

-Pathetic, look in the mirror. You guys are dead ringers.-


Rowly the Victim
Mario
Rowly is a lady. She has no reason to 'man up' and she is not a 'sissy boy'.

===================================================

Respectfully. If it walks like a duck, then it seemed it was a duck. go figure. Woman up then I guess!


Mario

Prott
So congratulations, there is no progressive reawakening insight and you can continue to bad mouth people, by using the "S" word, that don't follow/fit into a strict orthodox form of Christianity. Or people, who believe that plutocracies run solely on the whim of big fast food, energy, health, agriculture, finance, military industrial complex, drugs, or whatever, are unhealthy for a representative democracy.

You conservatives are more organized than we are, you have more people in media (Talk radio and Fox News) to come to your ideological defenses, and you have an easier time becoming bound to ideology.

So once again congratulations on being impervious to administration change and for proving that all the work we non-conservatives do to inform ourselves on issues is, at the moment, a waste.

=========================================================

Your analysis is dead on. The only real reason we won the last 2 elections was the Iraq war in 2006 and the economy in 2008. They definitely have the upper hand in propaganda. Ninety percent of their rhetoric are lies yet they lie all together collectively, over and over again. This strategy works. If you have a whole team telling the same lie eventually people will wonder if their lie is true. They have perfected their propaganda methods to a science. They are definitely more organized and their media outlets use the same lying technique as them. If we do not organize we are in trouble. Look at the Birth certificate, ACORN, Health Care reform, Stimulus BS they spew. They were able to get an audience even though everything they were saying are absolute untruths. Incredible. Your assesment is dead on. We won the election, they're running the show!

Mario

An Irrelevant Congress

The Democrats in congress worked so hard to discredit George Bush for eight long years. Their BDS was breathtaking!

The last two years they tried to lose the war and deliberately ruined the economy to kill any chances the Republicans had to make any strides in the election.

Now,they are irrelevant. The man 'who walks on water' has made them nothing more than rubber stamps for him. He doesn't even ask their opinions about the unconstitutional decisions he has made.

Pathetic.

WAY Down South #153: You certainly

nailed that one!

"The election of the most radical, fiscally irresponsible, economically illiterate, and internationally ignorant neophyte in American history..."

If Obozo had a clue, he'd do exactly what Harding did in 1920.

Harding actually INHERITED a $25 BILLION debt (remember it was 1920) from the previous administration.

* The one-year drop in the GNP price deflator was the steepest ever in US history.

* The one-year plunge in wholesale prices was the worst in recorded history.

* The ratio in percentage decline of the GNP price deflator compared to real GNP was the worst ever.

* Unemployment more than doubled.

Pres Harding...

* CUT FEDERAL SPENDING BY 21%

* Began to PAY OFF NATIONAL DEBT

* CUT TAXES ON CORPORATE REVENUES “EXCESS” PROFITS

* REFUSED TO BAIL OUT FAILED BANKING & BUSINESS INSTITUTIONS.


As a result, by 1922,

* GNP rebounded 6%

* Unemployment dropped 43% to 6 ..7% overall

"This astonishingly quick rebound from a severe, one-year depression served as a springboard to the “Roaring ’20s.”



Not only dependent ...
...but grateful to the Obama Administration and the Democratic Party for the wonderful benefits of their new health insurance. And therefore, presumptively ready, willing, and able to support his forthcoming "I'm not doing this", which will be to repeal the 22nd Amendment and become President-for-Life. I mean, it's easy to reward his supporters in ACORN; they're in at least two of the "stimulus" laws that Congress passed without reading. It's harder to reward enough voters to support you when you want to be President-for-Life. That the insurance won't provide them medical care won't be noticed, since the Democrats and their supporters in the media have managed to get nearly everyone to read "no medical insurance" as being "no medical care". The Emperor still has no clothes and the mob and the press still think he looks marvelous, simply marvelous.

A few fun facts on healthcare
1) Medicare is derived from the same market as healthcare, whose extra costs derive from misapplication of better technology and drugs, the payroll of hundreds of thousands of people who either find any discrepancies in your medical history or work for marketing, the people hospitals need to deal with the people who operate the bureaucratic waste in the health insurance industry, and profit. Hence it is the private sector health industry that drives up Medicare and not the other way around.

2) The savings from getting rid of the waste in the health insurance industry, by putting in single payer, that ranges from the marketing departments, billing departments, the people who try to find discrepancies in your paper work, the bureaucracies that deal with co-payments and deductibles, etc., will amount to hundreds of billions of dollars (current estimates are $350 billion). And private hospitals will break even by no longer needing oversized administrative staffs to deal with the massive bureaucratic niches in the health insurance industry.

3) Bush’s drug bill made drugs more expensive because it got rid of Medicare’s negotiation process that prevented price gouging in the pharmaceutical drug industry and in actuality was a handout to that particular industry.

4) American taxpayers already pay more to finance healthcare spending than the private sector does.

Obama Poll
Sunday, June 21, 2009 Email to a Friend ShareThisAdvertisementThe Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Sunday shows that 32% of the nation's voters now Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Thirty-four percent (34%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -2.

That’s the President’s lowest rating to date and the first time the Presidential Approval Index has fallen below zero for Obama (see trends).

Sixty percent (60%) of Democrats Strongly Approve of the President’s performance but only 8% of Republicans share that view. Sixty-one percent (61%) of Republicans Strongly Disapprove.

And it's going to get worse!

"They voted today to keep Americans jobless so multitudes of illegal aliens could keep fed jobs


http://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/beckr/june-12-20 09/look-their-names-they-voted-today-keep-americans-jobless -so-multitudes-i?jid=171215&lid=9&rid=1689&tid=317709


"The choice couldn't have been clearer. And these U.S. Representatives said a big fat NO to the unemployed voters of their Congressional Districts and said hundreds of federal contractor jobs have to remain with illegal aliens. See the list of shame below.
On Friday, the U.S. Representatives listed below took an amazingly callous action that told federal contractors that they can continue to use taxpayer money to hire illegal aliens -- instead of unemployed Americans.

"They voted NO on an amendment to let Americans have those jobs.

"REFUSING TO MAKE FEDERAL CONTRACTORS USE E-VERIFY TO KEEP ILLEGAL ALIENS OUT OF JOBS

(AZ) Ed Pastor
(AR) Marion Berry
(CA) Sam Farr
(CA) Michael Honda
(CA) Barbara Lee
(CA) Lucille Roybal-Allard
(CA) Adam Schiff
(CO) John Salazar
(CT) Rosa DeLauro
(FL) Allen Boyd
(FL) Debbie Wasserman Schultz
(GA) Sanford Bishop
(IL) Jesse Jackson
(IN) Peter Visclosky
(KY) Ben Chandler
(MA) John Oliver
(MI) Carolyn Kilpatrick
(MN) Betty McCollum
(NJ) Steven Rothman
(NY) Maurice Hinchey
(NY) Steve Israel
(NY) Nita Lowey
(NY) Jose Serrano
(NC) David Price
(OH) Marcy Kaptur
(OH) Tim Ryan
(PA) Chaka Fattah
(PA) John Murtha
(TN) Lincoln Davis
(TX) Chet Edwards
(TX) Ciro Rodriguez
(VA) Jim Moran
(WA) Norman Dickse
(WV) Alan Mollohan
(WI) David Obey


The Plan is
to get government-controlled medical care in place. The idea is, once in place, it will be almost IMPOSSIBLE to get rid of.

Hillary, at least tried to find something that would work. Obama has no such interests. Once it's here, we're stuck with it. "Ha. Ha." says
our Trickster Prez, "Change you can believe in."

Obama is not leading a political charge
Look I know that the conservative base's main strength is to be fired up 24/7, but there's really no reason to put in the extra effort.

The only thing Obama has done that should scare people of conservative leanings is stave off a great depression. But Obama hasn't even followed up on that by reigning in the financial sector. Hence in the future complicated derivatives will still be able to be put into use, home equity will still be used as spendable cash, risky investments won't be overviewed, companies still "to big to fail" will still exist in their volatile forms, and the boom and bust cycle will not be any less frequent.

But Obama hasn't really done anything that would scream reform. And the dems in congress aren't pushing for any reforms either. These dems aren't progressive; they're barely left of center.

All you conservatives need to do is starve "the beast" (the U.S. government) and demoralize the crap out of people who are possibly drawing towards left of center positions and you win no matter how many people you lack on capitol hill.

So congratulations, there is no progressive reawakening insight and you can continue to bad mouth people, by using the "S" word, that don't follow/fit into a strict orthodox form of Christianity. Or people, who believe that plutocracies run solely on the whim of big fast food, energy, health, agriculture, finance, military industrial complex, drugs, or whatever, are unhealthy for a representative democracy.

You conservatives are more organized than we are, you have more people in media (Talk radio and Fox News) to come to your ideological defenses, and you have an easier time becoming bound to ideology.

So once again congratulations on being impervious to administration change and for proving that all the work we non-conservatives do to inform ourselves on issues is, at the moment, a waste.

Talent Scout

I studied in Germany so I am not qualified to give an opinion on the Austrian language.

Maybe they speak Switzer-dutch.

Judith
Earlier in this thread I said that, since Janet Napolitano said working illegals will not be deported, enact criminal and civil laws that require the employers of illegals to give them a work card showing where they work, the owner of the business and a 24/7 line where their employment can be verified. Make the employer pay for all of their medical, dental and prescription needs; they are making money off of them already or they would have hired a citizen. If the employer violates the law, have it provide for jail time and a hefty fine. On the second offense, send them to prison for a lengthy stay.

I would be happy if the illegals paid taxes. That would help address the debt we are sinking into.

Further, I would deeply appreciate not having myself or my family being victimized by identity theft any more.

If you get a moment, please scroll through and read my earlier posts. Thanks.

Mario
Rowly is a lady. She has no reason to 'man up' and she is not a 'sissy boy'.

Suicide in German
Selbstmord

Is Austrian not German speaking?

Simplicity....
Occam's razor, the simplist answer.
OK, a good place to start:
No. 1: NO insurance for illegals, period! (Notice the word is ILLEGAL, not legal.)

No. 2: If an illegal needs medical care while in the US, OK, but the Mexican or appropriate govt. will be billed, and if not reimbursed, total amount owed will be deducted from any foreign aid we give to that country.

No. 3: Those earning at least $75 Thousand annually, but chose not to buy insurance - Tough Luck! Perhaps I would relent and offer some type of one-time-only catastrophic coverage for an emergency, but nothing more.(I can be sympathetic if necessary)

Well now, these 3 points take care of a large portion of uninsured in the US
Results: Taxpayers given relief. Problem half solved!

I'm sure the average US citizen can come up with a lot more logical answers to this problem than the political wonks in DC. The more complicated, the better to hide the truth.
They do not understand the concept of Occam's razor.
Perhaps we should tell them.


A Great Nation Commits Suicide.

The election of the most radical, fiscally irresponsible, economically illiterate, and internationally ignorant neophyte in American history just proves how stupid, silly, and suicidal the American people have become.

How does one say suicide in Austrian?

OF IRONY AND TRAGEDY
While the Iranian People protest and fight, willing to sacrifice their lives for the FREEDOM and LIBERTY we Americans take for granted, our government is doing everything in it's power to TAKE our FREEDOM and LIBERTY from us.

They are We
One of Obama’s memorable statement during the campaign was that: “We are who we’ve been waiting for”. What did that mean?

To the gullible, he seemed to be saying that “we” have the answers to all of our problems and “we” can therefore solve them. That is not what he actually meant. He was speaking to a limited audience, his fellow elites and operatives, those who were in on the joke.

What he meant was: “They are who we’ve been waiting for”, they being the now majority of Americans stupid enough to believe their messiah had come to save them with free health care, free housing, jobs for everyone with high pay, mortgage free homes and, as that one ignorant ghetto mother said “free gas in the tank of my car.”

Finally, a nation of mental defectives, perfect for an idiocracy to be governed by kleptocrats, thieves. A citizenry who will patiently stand by, mouths open and drooling on themselves, watching while our geniuses print more money. No matter the bungling, his popularity soars because he goes on late night TV with the other Hollywood clowns and swats flies during interviews.

Cool, man! Octomom, Spencer and Heidi, Jon and Kate, Obama, Michelle’s toned arms, Oprah, Dr. Phil, Jerry Springer, Obama, big screen TVs, American Idol, Get Me Out of Here, Obama, Adam Lambert, People Magazine, Obama, Susan Boyle, Obama. . . .

PAD

Did you grow a Money Tree?

Diane
"our lives literally depend on it."

Drama Queens of the World, UNITE!

I wonder how the people on Medicare and in the Veterans Administration feel?

Rowley = Rowly, same crap!
What is 'the SOCTUS' and who is Rowley?

S-ociety
O-f
C-onservative
T-errorists
U-nder
S-atan

Rowley = Rowly same thing, you Moron. The Conservative Taliban terrorist. You and your little sissy nit picking. You an Elitist now mr spell checker. Grow a set, be a man. men dont nit pick about such little things. Or you one of those Elite Conservative Traitor Intellectuals. Go ahead sissyboy find spelling errors you little girl! Poor Victim Rowly, have a nice night, you hear!

Summers et al

I have been advocating trade schools since I was a teenager.

Medical training for nurses, is just one of the many areas that could provide good paying jobs for many people.

I have seen bright people who gave up on themselves because they couldn't make it in college.

When I was in broadcast television (technical side), I allowed a young women, who had been left 'holding the bag' with two kids by a worthless husband, to work at night after her regular job loading video tape for broadcast.

I couldn't even pay her, but she looked at the job as if she was paying to go to night school.

The first paid opening I had (several months later) I hired her and she more than doubled her pay at the time.

She eventually became a 'Broadcast Engineer' and more than doubled her pay again.

I received Christmas cards from her for several years and she always thanked me for helping her 'To Work For Nothing'. btw she was black.

the short answer is yes
*Isn't that one of the main problems now, people going to the emergency rooms and the cost of that? While they will have insurance, the overall cost of medical care will go through the roof.

in the 80's I worked at a company that provided a decent health insurance and as never having insurance before that time myself I thought this is great. We had one employee with a wife and 2 children that anytime that they had the sniffles they went to the emergency room and within 4 to 6 months the insurance was dropped for everyone at the company due to the cost that these wasteful, useless trips caused the premimums to rise to. The boss could no longer afford this benifit. This happened to +/- 20 people what do you think is going to happen with at least ......... million osama obamaites that dont want to pay for anything?

Simple solutions do work.
A large insurance company can dictate what they will pay doctors for their services (making them little better than an Obama government). Big insurances wants high malpractice cases, they want increasing costs. They not only make more if prices increase, but they crowd out any future competition.

The solution lies in that. Don't let insurance companies negoiate prices. Make the big guys have to pay the exact same price as the little guys. Then you will have a fair system where the little guys can compete with the big guys. It would make an industry that is completely uncapitalistic capitalistic. That is the only long term solution. Not more doctor (doesn't fundamentally change the industry) not government (replaces awful with something more awful).

Malpractice is another thing that needs to be fixed, but again changing that doesn't fundamentally change the dynamic. Insurance and the Health Care is set up to be uncapitalistic. Use that Occam's razor to fix the problem. We know capitalism works. If an industry isn't working then it isn't capitalistic. The solution is...to make it capitalistic. Nothing else matters.

Make the insurance competitive
A large insurance company can dictate what they will pay doctors for their services (making them little better than an Obama government). Big insurances wants high malpractice cases, they want increasing costs. They not only make more if prices increase, but they crowd out any future competition.

The solution lies in that. Don't let insurance companies negoiate prices. Make the big guys have to pay the exact same price as the little guys. Then you will have a fair system where the little guys can compete with the big guys. It would make an industry that is completely uncapitalistic capitalistic. That is the only long term solution. Not more doctor (doesn't fundamentally change the industry) not government (replaces awful with something more awful).

Malpractice is another thing that needs to be fixed, but again changing that doesn't fundamentally change the dynamic. Insurance and the Health Care is set up to be uncapitalistic. Use that Occam's razor to fix the problem. We know capitalism works. If an industry isn't working then it isn't capitalistic. The solution is...to make it capitalistic. Nothing else matters.

To dissect today's osama obama
dire straights debate,use a Jim Bowie Knife and rid ourselves of osama obama, frank, dodd, reid pelosi, raines, and the list just keeps on going between the dems and reps in office alike they are what is wrong with the country. These cancers need to be cut out.

PAD



Where are we going to get the money? Cuba?











ACORN pushing health care as a "right"
Why am I not surprised that probable ACORN surrogates, disguised as an "advocacy group" called "Health Care for America" are out in force agitating in support of Obama's plan. One of the questions asked of unsuspecting citizens is "do you agree (note the use of this leading term) health care is a RIGHT, not a privilege?" Here is a link to the article in today's Sacramento Bee = http://www.sacbee.com/topstories/story/1963916.html. No doubt some of our Stimulus money is going to pay these "volunteers" for their efforts. Makes me sick (no joke intended).

Camus
Camus
Location: NJ
Reply # 54
Date: Jun 21, 2009 - 12:18 PM EST Rowley
Not even the Soctus takes you nuts seriously anymore

************************************************
What is 'the SOCTUS' and who is Rowley?

Interesting
If just those who attended 'Tea Parties' were to do this, we could hit him where it hurts.

===================================================

Let me get this, if all 14 of you that went to the Traitor Tea bagging parties do this it'll hit him where it hurts.

Mario


I think you are a bunch of traitors, all 14 of you!

What Do You Not Understand?

Obama says that we are BROKE.

China is cutting up our CREDIT CARD.

China and Russia are buying GOLD and Brazil has dumped the Dollar.

ObamaCare will cost $1.2tn, according to the CBO OR $1.5tn as per the Congress, OR $4tn estimated by non-conservative "Think Tanks."

If you want free health care, then go to the Netherlands (but be prepared to may ASTRONOMICAL taxes) or Cuba where you will get a rice cooker.

If you want "free" dope, then go to the Netherlands, San
Obama says that we are BROKE.

China is cutting up our CREDIT CARD.

China and Russia are buying GOLD and Brazil has dumped the Dollar.

ObamaCare will cost $1.2tn, according to the CBO OR $1.5tn as per the Congress OR $4tn estimated by non-conservative "Think Tanks".

If you want free health care, then go to the Netherlands (but be prepared to may ASTRONICAL taxes) or Cuba where you will get a rice cooker.

If you want "free" dope, then go to the Netherlands, San Franscio, etc.

Obama=Mullah.

Obama=Mullah

the BIG mick
Cap what a plaintiff's (patient's) lawyer can make on a malpractice case and sanction him or her for bringing a nuisance case.

Don't forget the jerk insurance defense lawyers who cause cases to go to trial before they pay the insurance proceeds they already know are due. Cap what those leeches can make and sanction them for pursuing frivilous defenses, plus tag them with all costs of court to come out of their firm's bank not to be reimbursed by the insurance company.

Lawyers are slow on the uptake, but they learn.

Charles of Ca.
Janet Napolitano said she will not be deporting illegals who are working. As we both know that the employer is making more money with illegal employees than citizens, order the employers to give employment cards to each illegal worker that gives the name and address of the business, the name of the business owner(s), and a telephone number where employment can be verified 24/7. Then make the employer responsible for the health care costs of his employees and their families if they do not buy insurance.

Make the failure of an employer to provide this card and pay these bills a felony offense and prosecute those who behave like they don't have to follow the law. Make it a two strikes you are off serving serious time and paying serious fines and watch how fast those bad boys learn to follow the law.

the BIG mick
I hope you didn't have bb's in your grits this morning.

People lose sight of Physician's Assistants. They are more highly trained than nurses and less than a physician. They can see patients with the usual sore throat, ear ache, nausea, and the like without a doctor. They can even write prescriptions. They work under a doctor's supervision and charge less per visit.

That is one way to cut down on the cost of a routine visit.

Retired Geek
As I am repeating myself from the other day in giving this thought, please excuse.

I don't know why we don't teach basic nursing skills in high school. It serves two purposes. It familiarizes kids with a good paying job opportunity for both males and females and it could be used as a science credit for graduation.

As a practical matter, many kids are not college bound. The beauty of an RN is that you can earn one with or without a college degree. Earning an RN or learning to be a tech does not take more time than attending a trade school and there are grants and financial aid for students.

Moral Imperative
There are literature and petitions in the rear of our church today. It seems that health care is a moral right. It makes debate difficult when one side is moral and the other isn't.

It appears to me that things must get much worse before they will start to get better.

Summers et al

Good post!

Logic would dictate that adding millions to the Health Care rolls - would require a substantial push to Provide Health Care workers as well.

I have no idea what the ratios of Doctors to Nurses and other Health Care workers would be.




Shortage of $ for Illegal Aliens
health care is what we should be considering. We provide an attractive bennifit package at no cost to them. Wefare, cash aid, medical bennifits and section eight for housing, (if you dont work). What a deal for those who dont work....They get a better bennifit package than I do and I have worked, lived and was born here. What a great country we have!

this really is it--thanks chuck
Summers,
I've been saying for 2 decades now that the solution to ANY economic problem (in this case the REAL problem is the high cost of Health CARE, not INSURANCE) is an Economic Solution.

One does not address High Cost by Restricting Supply. Indeed, the CAUSE of High Price is often Artificially Restricted supply.

Double the number of Doctors, triple the number of Nurses and other health care providers allow others besides Docs to provide MOST of what Docs do short of major surgery and watch the price of health care plummet without sacrificing much quality at all.

Of course the key to that is shooting every Medical Malpractice Lawyer.

Once you've done that though, you'd have to THREATEN to shoot all the members of AMA boards who refuse to hang bad docs on their own.

Get that right though....

mick

Shortage of doctors, cont.
'Washington has also been training a microscope on the groundbreaking effort in Massachusetts to provide everyone in the state with health insurance: Adding 340,000 people to the rolls of the insured there since 2006 has underscored a shortage of doctors. It takes 63 days on average to get an appointment with a family doctor in Boston, more than twice the wait in Washington, and seven times as long as in Philadelphia and Atlanta, according to a Merritt Hawkins survey.

"If Massachusetts is any guide, with increased access you'd see pent-up demand for health care and you'd see a lot of frustration with the waiting time to access health care," Phillips said. "It'll swamp the emergency rooms, and those people will be seeking health care in the most expensive settings."'

*Isn't that one of the main problems now, people going to the emergency rooms and the cost of that? While they will have insurance, the overall cost of medical care will go through the roof.

Tim LOL! and a parting Happy thought
"Aunt Zetouni" was that from Disney's "Holes"? Something to do with pigs?

Brilliant!

A happy thought just occurred. Anybody see the Headline about Health Care Workers and Swine Flu--that don't matter but it got me thinking this chain: "Swine Flu=Mexican Flu=Stinko de Mexico Flu....WAIT A MINUTE!--if the North Koreans miss Hawaii with a Nuke, MAYBE it will hit MEXICO! Or California--win win on an "over".

mick


TheBigMick
"It’s all about Envy, Covetousness, and Hatred of their Betters. And underneath that is a denial of their own inadequate, incompetent, lazy, parasitic, and bigoted nature."

Nails it.

Not enough doctors
Article by Ashley Halsy,III of The Washington Post

The Association fo American Medical Colleges thinks the shortage of doctors will grow to 124,400 by 2025. It warns that the demand for primary care doctors and reduction of immediate access to specialists under universal health coverage may be even more severe.

The number of primary care physicians has been dropping and the number of specialists has been rising due to a 'disparity' that 'results from Medicare-driven compensation that pays more to doctors who do procedures than to those who diagnose illness and dispense prescriptions. For example, Medicare, in Chicago in 2005, paid $89.64 to a primary care physician and paid $422.90 to a gastroenterologist for about the same length of time with the patient.

'By 2000, 14 percent of U.S. medical school graduates were entering family medicine. Five years later, the figure was 8 percent, and a recent survey of students interested in internal medicine showed that 98 percent wanted to become specialists.'

Mario 's Profound Amentia Disorder !

Since Ya brought it up !

Let's See Here.

Can Tim Recall The 6 Mario Failed Mario Marriages in Order ?

1.Fidel's Old Girlfriend

2.Raul's Old Boyfriend

3.That Dog Named Poochie

4.That Really Ugly Lady

5. The Blow-Up Doll

6. Aunt Zetouni

How'd I Do Mario Cuban Commie ?

Huh,Huh ?

RG! Well done!
PADbutt surely is a legend up his own behind.

Have a balmy and slothfilled Father's Day afternoon gents.

see ya at the barricades

mick

PADbutt Ranger Robber 69 incognito?
"Long live the Repubelick" was Ranger Robber 69 aka PerBerts signature phrase.

PADbutt, I keep looking for one of these "myths" you "slay" and I ain't found nary a hare yet.
Matter o fact, last time you tried to engage me you were reduced to the rhetorical equivalent of "not tonight, dear, I have a headache". Something about my words meaning nothing, but then, if that was the case, you should have been able to slay my myth without breaking a sweat. You declined? Why?

Were you unable to UNDERSTAND the arguments?

As I told you, better to remain silent and be thought a fool, PADbutt, then to play with the Adults and remove all doubt.

mick

Retired Geek
Be careful about reducing your withholding.

When you file at tax time, if you haven't paid at least 90% of your total tax liability you will be hit with a penalty. In addition, you will be forced to pay estimated tax next year every quarter.

The only exception to the 90% rule is if the amount of total amount you had withheld was higher than your total tax liability for the previous year.

I'm in favor of denying oxygen to this illegitimate and corrupt government, but be careful not to cut your own nose off in the process.

Retired Geek
Good stuff. I am taking your advice and cancelling the my deductions and increasing my dependants. This will cost the illegitimate Sonsadogs a couple thou per year. If everybody did it, the crunch hits sooner. It can't be everybody until it includes me, so here i go.

Your advice on trolls goes unheeded because i long ago despaired of a response that was even on topic, let alone showing any kind of applicable facts. Your examples make as much sense, but are much higher class than the usual from a troll.

Ready for 4th of July?
To those of you who are past fed-up with this style and manner of governing...

Are you ready for the 4th of July protests being organized in cities and towns all across America? Find out when and where you local protest rallies are scheduled, make your posters and bring a bucket of chicken and some cold drinks. Bring your family, friends and neighbors; Americans coming together to scream at their leaders-

THE SILENT MAJORITY CAN AFFORD TO BE SILENT NO MORE. RALLY ACROSS AMERICA TO STOMP OUR BIG BOOT DOWN IN SUPPORT OF OUR CONSTITUTION AND DEFENSE OF OUR LIBERTY.

July 4th is the most opportune day to do just that...

Response to Withholding Taxes

David from AZ responded yesterday about claiming the maximum deductions allowed by law.
------------------------

David wrote: "Right on! My wife and I used to have the max taken out of our pay on taxes so we would have a nice refund each year to buy our Cardinal season tickets etc.

I would point out to my wife that what we were doing was giving the government an interest free loan but she did not seem to mind until she found out that people in California who was expecting a state refund instead got and IOU.

We have listed the highest number of dependents allowed by law and have auto deposited the amount going the Fed and State to our savings account where it is getting interest.

The amount we owe the Fed and State will be paid on April 15th and the rest will be our refund which I’m sure will be much more the refunds received from the Fed and State.

Instead of the interest free loan the Fed and State has been getting 26 times a year, they will be getting the minimum amount we owe once a year.

Can you imagine if just one million tax payers did the same, how much money the Fed and States would be losing every 2 weeks?"

Great ObamaTax News!

Receipts for all taxes received by the Federal Government is down (26.1%) over the same period of 2008.

Tea Parties are NOT the only thing we can do.

Everyone who has taxes taken out of their paychecks, should list the the highest number of dependents allowed by law.

Save the amount that you receive extra, to pay the extra taxes you will have at next filing time.

Help the rest of us who are trying to cut the money off to Barack Obama.

DO NOT GIVE BARACK OBAMA AN INTEREST FREE LOAN.

If just those who attended 'Tea Parties' were to do this, we could hit him where it hurts.

WARNING about Mario

Trying to converse with Mario aka PAD will usually go like this.

Why I don't Converse With the Insane.

Geek, "I think that Obama's idea of Islam and Israel becoming partners for peace, denies historical facts".

Mario response, You are an Idiot, do you not know that Sea Kittens track Squirrels?

-----
Geek, "Obama is trying to destroy 'Individual Rights'.

Mario response, my red panties give me all of the rights I want.

-----
Geek, "The Barack Obama plan of 'Borrowing and Spending' to eliminate debt is ludicrous."

Mario response, I was sleeping in my oatmeal, when Al Gore kissed Santa Claus
-----

Geek, "Taking money from those who work hard and giving that money to the indolent who refuse to work is stealing."

Mario response, The drool bib that was designed for me, has sold well Stimulating the economy.

chuck's incredulity at commieqrdumbness
chuck,
not at all, think it through–as Samuel Johnson pointed out back in the AmRev days: “Your ‘Levelers’, sir, always want to level DOWN to themselves, never UP to themselves.”
The commieqrs are about nothing but “getting, punishing, bringing down, taking ‘vengeance’ on, those more Productive and Prosperous than they are. It’s all about Envy, Covetousness, and Hatred of their Betters. And underneath that is a denial of their own inadequate, incompetent, lazy, parasitic, and bigoted nature. They don’t want to acknowledge their inferiority, so they seek to eradicate the successful whose mere presence reveals the inescapable Truth.
mick

Incontinent
A little buzz for PA doofa$s
On PA day. I've got a daughter in Afghanistan, a son-in-law in Iraq, two firefighters on duty and another wondering if he can keep his employees with Oblaba's plans so you keep on spouting, troll. Now if you need an interpreter just let me know.

=====================================================

What is this a pissing contest? You are not the only one who has children serving overseas. I've got one son in Afghanistan and my other boy on his second tour in Iraq! But mine are imaginary and only yours are real. Democrats NEVER go off to war! You have a nice day, as for my lying as$, time to join the festivities and spend time with the imaginary children i have here are home. Tim AKA ED How many imaginary marraiges do I have six is it. If your lucky i'll come back and debunk more of your lies later, we'll see!

Mario (Conservative Myth Slayer)


God Bless america!


Long Live The Republic!

Proud to be a Dumb Floridian Voter
Hola, PADbutt! (any Harry Potter readers out there?)

C'mon, ol sod, even you can't think that the FEDS are going to let you see any Doc you want when you want? The whole point to FED control is to MAKE people do what YOU want.

Put the FEDS in control of Health Care and you can kiss Mickey D's and KFC goodbye.
No more BBQ or Frozen Custard.
Raw Fisheads and Rice for the rest of us baby, while the Health Police do caviar.

Work camps for Fat People are just a pen-stroke away you old Collectivist Dictator you.

6 months on Jughead Der Schwarze Fuehrer's Health Plan and you will be BEGGING for a return to HMOs.

mick

indycantidim
It's incredible, isn't it?

They live in the most prosperous and free nation in the history of the world and they're still whining about how bad it is and are working hard at bringing it down.

Don't bother, Chuck
This guy is all alone in his weed hazed world with his brainmovedon/daily kommie/huff-n-puff almanac reading his latest Oblaba puff piece in Newsweek.

We don't want no stink'n government
meddling with our care. Keep out!

When my mother was 82 she was diagnosed with breast cancer. This required a radical masectomy removing both of her breasts. She received excellent treatment and care and has fully recovered. She is now 89 and still on the go. She still drives a car and does volunteer work "taking care of the old ladies" although she is older than most of them herself (note to Obama - this is real volunteer work, not the kind where you bribe someone with benefits to do it!)

If Obamination's care was in place at the time she was diagnosed, the Comparative Effectiveness process he wants to institute would have some ACORN-like bureaucrat making a decision that she was too old to receive the treatment and incur such an expense. They would decide that some 20 year old illegal immigrant who never paid a dime to the US was more deserving of her health care dollars than she was. This is absolutely despicable as are any of the people who are promoting it.

Keep out of our lives. Go provide for yourselves and leave us alone.

Good ol Chuck
Mario
I'm in an HMO.

Try again.

===================================================

Of course your HMO would be the only one in the country where you can go to any hospital and see any MD. Conservative alternate reality is great, huh.

mario

A little buzz for PA doofa$s
On PA day. I've got a daughter in Afghanistan, a son-in-law in Iraq, two firefighters on duty and another wondering if he can keep his employees with Oblaba's plans so you keep on spouting, troll. Now if you need an interpreter just let me know.

Mario
"And you know that statement was false because?"

Perhaps you need a refresher course in rhetoric, Mario.

I never said it was false.

Mario
I'm in an HMO.

Try again.

Right back at ya Chukie
GeorgiaGal
"These are Americans with pre-existing medical conditions (the majority of which were given to the individuals by God, and NOT by "lifestyle choices".)"

And you know this how?

===================================================

And you know that statement was false because?


Mario

No answer hey chuckie, run out of talking points have ya!

Padoofus
76% want the prices down not government intervention. We all know what the government's capable of and its not good especially after these clowns get through with it. There are many options that could be pursued and everybody knows it but you. Now who's following a master?

Entitlements

“No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth.” – President Ronald Reagan

http://rsc.tomprice.house.gov/UploadedFiles/RSC_Sunset_Cauc us_Two-Pager.pdf

Incontinent
Oh that's right, mario
You're the one that's always writing through the haze. Yeah, that border stuff with the cartels has you concerned about cutting off the supply. We don't burn crosses here, loser, we tell you to get in line...ACROSS THE LINE. If you don't want to be an American, don't call us we'll call you. What'd they float you in and forget to Reno you back to Cuba?

==================================================

Look, you addressed me, if you want me to respond make a little sense. Dont just throw random words out. I'm not here to de cipher your babble. If you cant tell someone to help you put together a coherent message. Otherwise buzz off!

Mario

Well Rear Echelon Hal !

We've watched you laying in your own barf out on the curb outside Daddys Tavern over on Stafford ,for years.

What's Your Health Plan ?

A half bottle of Cheap Whiskey a day keeps the c doctor away !

Drink Up Boy !

Good ol Chuck
Camus
"Do you think you can chose any Dr ?
Try choosing the Top cardiologist in the US with regular Insurance"

I have regular insurance and have had three different types of ablations in one of the highest rated Cardiac care hospitals in the nation and by their top Cardiologists, who have been trained and mentored by one of the developers of the minimally invasive ablation technique. (Yep, problem cured!) During that time, I have switched insurance from Aetna to Blue Cross and Blue Shield with nary a problem.

What are you talking about?

=====================================================

Consider yourself lucky, because the rest of the nation uses these things called HMO's and PPo's. HMO are managed care. You get a list of participating MD's. If your family doc is not on there tough luck. PPo's are very similar. If you need to visit say an orthopredic MD you have to first be given permission by the primary. Funny thing is that you guys knock a public option because the government supposedly would be between you and the MD. Right now it the for profit Insurers between you and the MD. They deny coverage all the time. That is why 76% of Americans support reform. What about the people with preexsisting conditions? You guys say let em die!. That is until that person is one of your family members. conservatives are dead wrong on this one. you are just looking out for your corporate masters.

Mario

Oh that's right, mario
You're the one that's always writing through the haze. Yeah, that border stuff with the cartels has you concerned about cutting off the supply. We don't burn crosses here, loser, we tell you to get in line...ACROSS THE LINE. If you don't want to be an American, don't call us we'll call you. What'd they float you in and forget to Reno you back to Cuba?

GeorgiaGal
"These are Americans with pre-existing medical conditions (the majority of which were given to the individuals by God, and NOT by "lifestyle choices".)"

And you know this how?

Profound Amentia Disorder Says !

Saludos mi amigo. Feliz dia de padre. Espero que esten bien. tengo visita hoy en mi casa. No voy a poder ensenar le a los conservadores mucho pero un poco no duele. Que estes bien!

Translation : Hi Comrade ! Happy "It Takes A Village " Day ! Come and visit me , in my refrigerator box ,under the bridge. I'm beat to crap from mouth fightin' Conservatives .
They yell at me , " Hey Imbecile Cuban Commie,next time don't bring a knife to a gun fight ".

Ah Chihuahua !

Camus
"Do you think you can chose any Dr ?
Try choosing the Top cardiologist in the US with regular Insurance"

I have regular insurance and have had three different types of ablations in one of the highest rated Cardiac care hospitals in the nation and by their top Cardiologists, who have been trained and mentored by one of the developers of the minimally invasive ablation technique. (Yep, problem cured!) During that time, I have switched insurance from Aetna to Blue Cross and Blue Shield with nary a problem.

What are you talking about?

incontinent
PAD
How is the coyote business anyway? We'd heard the economy was driving them away. I'm not buying it. I bet Oblaba's got a special ACORN fund for hiring illegals so that he'll have more voters for 2010/12.

========================================================

Dont know. How is the Cross burning business? I heard it was getting better as the economy goes to the tank. I heard the minutemen found a new revenue stream, robbing drug dealers to fund their cross burning parties. Good Times! Later Moron.

Mario

Carlos
Proud American Dem
Is 911 an inside job?

====================================================

In Reality no, it was not.


But in Conservative Bizzaro Alternate Reality where you exsist, it is. Just ask Charles or Tim AKA ED. They'll tell you all about it.

911 being an inside job is just as real as Obama not having presented his birth certificate. But hey in Conservative Bizzaro Alternate Reality, anythings possible!


Now buzz off, you behave like a little troll looking for acceptance from these other bigger trolls. go find a local KKK meeting and leave.

Mario

PS: Dont tell me you are some Minority and therefore cant be a bigot. Because your contemporaries here debunked that in Bizzaro world!

Tim
"Date: Jun 21, 2009 - 2:26 PM EST
Personal Responsibilty !

Placing responsibility squarely where it belongs, on the shoulders of the patient, will encourage individuals to make healthy lifestyle choices. Infusing personal responsibility into health care reform allows us all to maintain our cherished freedom to live our lives without government intrusion."

Can we watch them die on the streets too? LOL What is your health insurance? medicaid?

What did 52 consecutive months
of growth get us during GWB's Reign of terror. The so called longest expansion in our history. The housing /financial / banking bubble thats what. Now hopefully we will not have to face an equally long recession. Interest rates were low, the Bushies told everybody to go shopping, and shopping they did. Homes became ATM's and banks lent to everyone and anyone. Not only are poor folks not able to pay back loans but even rich developers cant pay back either. GWB totally ruined our national economy and the world economy. All except Canada that is, although times are tough there they kept their banking regulation in place and are faring much better that everybody else. If Bush were like the Conservatives there we wouldnt be having this conversation. they regulated their market, not deregulated like GWB and goons!

http://antidismal.blogspot.com/2008/10/worldwide-financial- crisis-largely.html

Republican Party spells DOOM for the USA!

http://www.tcoasttalk.com/2009/06/12/another-st-lucie-proje ct-bites-the-foreclosure-dust/

PAD
How is the coyote business anyway? We'd heard the economy was driving them away. I'm not buying it. I bet Oblaba's got a special ACORN fund for hiring illegals so that he'll have more voters for 2010/12.

Personal Responsibilty !

Placing responsibility squarely where it belongs, on the shoulders of the patient, will encourage individuals to make healthy lifestyle choices. Infusing personal responsibility into health care reform allows us all to maintain our cherished freedom to live our lives without government intrusion.

Camus
Primuaaasss
The founding Fathers are smiling , life is good
I am doing well, making lots of Money
The economy is getting more stable


Proud American
Hola Mauricio , me echaron otra vez
Pero sigo la guerra
Saludos Y feliz dia de los Padres

=================================================

Saludos mi amigo. Feliz dia de padre. Espero que esten bien. tengo visita hoy en mi casa. No voy a poder ensenar le a los conservadores mucho pero un poco no duele. Que estes bien!

Mario

Proud American Dem
Is 911 an inside job?

Cuba is the Pinnacle of Healthcare
according to Michael Moore. That probably explains why Castro called in a doctor from Spain for himself. Google the story from CNN.

Tommy
"Date: Jun 21, 2009 - 11:38 AM EST
Mr. Donahue
"The simple answer is that universal healthcare works and has succeeded everywhere tried."

You cite this as a "fact." Prove your assertion, and begin by defining the word "works."..."

Shall we start with infant mortality and life expectancy for a starter? Then amounts spent on healthcare in a given economy? All that data is available please research it.

"...Given the disennobling nature of federalization and the gross inefficiencies, systemic corruption, and mediocrization of everything it touches,..."

Really? You must really be young because try and take medicare of the older citizens. The states tried and there was far more gross inefficiencies, systemic corruption, and mediocrity and tremendous expense

"...what is the true agenda of you people who are so very quick to demand that the federal government metastasize until it controls every waking aspect of our lives?"

The federal government works for we the people if you fear it you fear yourself and your capabilities

"...Is there anything there beyond an angry hatred of individualism? Inherent in all these kinds of solutions is the magical belief that corporate man is evil, but governmental man benign..."

LOL no man is an island. You come into the world weak and incapable and often leave it in the same fashion. It is about competency what works most effectively that is how the nation was built.

"..Name a collecivist state that hasn't in one way or another ended up slaughtering its citizens by the millions."

WWII America

Camus !

We showed The Lotus 7 2 weeks ago and got a second place.

As long as We got Our Man Caves , and WeGot Our Toys ,All's Right With The World !

Beats Ties !




mario: GWB great recession? HA HA HA

,

Indentured Servants
Retired Geek - great description of what liberal government is trying to do to all of us.

And GeorgiaGal, why do you think your need gives you the right to place a claim on my property? Why don't you find ways to affilitate with other people voluntarily so when need arises, they may be WILLING to provide assistance.

There is no RIGHT to health insurance, or for that matter, health care. Our only rights pre-exist the formulation of the government that has only those rights we gave them.

Health care was not one of them.

I am so sick of all you people who think you have a right and someone else has an obligation to provide it for you. DO IT YOURSELF, and if you can't, then beggars can't be choosers.

These people would never dream of venturing into their neighbor's house and helping themselves to what they wanted/needed. But they think nothing of hiring government strongmen to go steal for them. You are all immoral and are actually thieves.

Accountability !

Making health care services more accessible, transparent and open through standardized insurance claims forms and equal tax breaks for individuals and companies will control costs by helping consumers and businesses compare "apples to apples" across the health care spectrum.

Old progrmr
Right on target!

And may God help the mentally-handicapped child who has a chronic medical condition! Uncle Sam surely won't!

Willie Camus , Al's Illegitimate Son !

Try buying a Maserati !

Do You think anybody can choose a luxury sports car ?

Like everybody in England gets a Top Cardiologist.

I gotta tell Ronny and Steve ,my surgeon buddies .

They'll get a good a good laugh outta it.

Happy Mother's Day !

Just Funnin' !

Happy Father's Day !

The REAL Healthcare Insurance Goal
There are numerous approaches to solving the Healthcare Insurance situation in the country. These potential solutions have been presented many times and have been evaluated and discussed for many years. If our "government" really wanted to reform our National Healthcare Insurance System, it could be accomplished rather quickly without bankrupting the country.

The problem is that the leftists who now control our rapidly expanding Central Government do not really want to fix the "problem". Their GOAL is to destroy those hated capitalistic private insurance companies. They care little for the healthcare needs of the people. The left is focused primarily on gaining more and more control. Destroying private enterprise associated with healthcare is a gigantic step toward total government control. Rational discussion of the issues associated with healthcare inefficiencies is impossible with the leftists since their goals are NOT to fix the system and provide better, less expensive care for the public, but to simply destroy private enterprise. They are only interested in destroying those hated captialists.

The left doesn't really care about those so-called 47 million uninsured (a very phony figure by the way), they wil celebrate their victory when they see all of the private insurance businesses out of business.

These leftists will dance with glee only when they see those hated insurance executives out of work. These leftists will celebrate when they and they alone can set the salaries for healthcare providers and there will no longer be any of those dastardly, rich doctors. "By God we are going to show all of those rich bast**ds." And, if we do it right we can also destroy Big Drug and eliminate those huge profits and those expensive R&D programs; the NIH can produce all the drugs the Central Government decides are necesssary.

Anne the deceptive one
mario is on pixie dust again!!!


Rasmussen reports:

Obama's approval rating is 32% while his disapproval rating is 34%, giving Obama a -2 presidential rating.


Gallup Poll:

40 percent of Americans identify themselves as conservative,

35 percent say they are moderate

21 percent answer to the liberal description.

Liberals are outnumbered by almost four to one.

===================================================

If you add 21% liberals plus 35% moderates you get 56% of the country that are Not Conservatives. Regardless of your bunching up moderates on your side here is the breakdown on how they vote. I am citing the very poll you do:

Thus far in 2009, Gallup has found an average of 36% of Americans considering themselves Democratic, 28% Republican, and 37% independent. When independents are pressed to say which party they lean toward, 51% of Americans identify as Democrats, 39% as Republicans, and only 9% as pure independents.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/120857/Conservatives-Single-Larg est-Ideological-Group.aspx


Again Anne you lose. Your ideology is shrinking. We are dealing with the effects of the GWB great recession. If bush inherited a recession from clinton, then Obama has also inherited a recession from Bush. You cant have it both ways Anne. No matter how much you want to blame Obama. Even your King Reagan was blaming carter for years about having inherited a mess from him. But you Conservatives conveniently overlook this.


Camus !

Congress passed a law in August of 1997, which provides health insurance for free or at a very low cost for millions of children nationwide.

Eligible CHIP Coverage :$35,300 for a family of four.

Tommy ... I agree
Obama's cure is worse than the disease. I think we should be looking at reducing costs and increasing the supply of healthcare providers before we just expand coverage. Trial Lawyers like John Edwards got rich off our healthcare system. That's not the only issue - but it's one of them.

Choice !

A patient must have the right to choose their own doctor, and must protect a consumer's right to choose the health insurance that best fits their needs and budget.

SteveL
Thank you, a very interesting and thought provoking point. I had not meant to get into minutiae in my attack on the simpleminded solution of having government take over, but of course this is a very complex problem. Obviously we need to wring the wasted expenses out of the system, and that includes disincenting malpractice law suits by adopting English loser pays all fees so that only the most meritorious claims even see the light of day.

There are still a thousand better possibilities for improving the system without declaring it, as this Chicken Little administration does, a total failure in immediate need of the benevolent mercies of federalization.

Camus

Is "Camus" your latest incarnation to bypass your banning from Townhall?

If you believe the Founding Fathers are smiling - then your "education" of U.S. history is woefully inadequate - and I suggest you ask for a tuition reimbursement (assuming you actually PAID for an education).

Summers:So wimpy-limpy got banned again!

:-)



Camus !

The Employer would pay somewhere around $ 9,500.

The Employee would pay somewhere around $6,000.

mario is on pixie dust again!!!


Rasmussen reports:

Obama's approval rating is 32% while his disapproval rating is 34%, giving Obama a -2 presidential rating.


Gallup Poll:

40 percent of Americans identify themselves as conservative,

35 percent say they are moderate

21 percent answer to the liberal description.

Liberals are outnumbered by almost four to one.



Rowly
Actually, I have found Hal to be one of the best barometers of "truth".

Whatever he states as absolute "truth", I bet on the opposite.

Using this method, I am correct over 90% of the time.

On one thing I disagree with you and actually believe Hal.

He claims he does not get paid for being a troll here.

I believe him - Hal is too intellectual limited to ASK for pay - which he'd probably get.

Oh - and besides being a recruiting tool for conservatives, Hal DOES contribute mightily to the hits on Townhall's website, increasing ad revenues and thus helping to insure Townhall's long term existence and influence.

Maybe Soros should ask him to STOP!

"LMAO"

Happy Father's Day
to all the Dads and Granddads on TH.

Proud American Democrat.... Oxymoron?
Same goes for Proud American Republican - it's Un-American and arrogant. The term should be Proud American Teacher or Police Officer or Nurse. Or how about just Proud American.

Camus !

The Employer would pay somewhere around $ 9,500.

The Employee would pay somewhere around $6,000.

Here is my letter to Dr. NO,

Senator Coburn from Okla.

Dr. Coburn,

If citizens and the Congress insist that there be a single-payer health plan, here is an idea that should be looked at. This is page one, of a 5,000 page document, but it must start somewhere.

I’ve talked to several doctors and pharmacists and to economists, PhDs and others, and they all think it sounds great.

Health care would be free to all, except all would pay taxes and a co-pay, rather than for health care insurance.

The way to reduce Health Care costs is simple. Just eliminate all insurance companies, their buildings, computers, and employees, and get rid of all Government health care employees. That would also eliminate the people in each and every doctor’s office and hospital, who spend their day filling out insurance forms.

I understand that there is a list of the procedures and the cost of each, for various parts of the Country.

Give every qualified doctor, hospital, and pharmacy a blank checkbook so they could write a check each evening for all the services they had provided that day.

Find the right line on every income tax form, multiply that number by a percentage that would equal the total cost of health care. Based on that number, issue a card that would tell the co-pay (a progressive number, based on income). No one would get in for free, with maybe at least a dollar for those who can prove they had little or no income.

Just hire a bunch of auditors to randomly check and made sure they aren’t stealing any more than is being stolen today. And on and on.

And I bet the cost would be cut in half.

Health costs in this country are so high because these days, a $5,000 funeral, is delayed by a much more expensive medical procedure.

Those costs could be reduced if the doctor was not permitted to use a medical procedure, or prescribe a pill that the patient can not pronounce.

michael moore's movie sicko was a joke
When Castro got sick, they flew in a doctor from Spain. It was right after Moore's movie that tried to make case that Cuba's healthcare system was the envy of world. Check out the CNN report.

Google on spanish doctor examines castro cnn.

Great News!
Frank Rich:

That First 100 Days hoopla seems like a century ago. The countless report cards it engendered are already obsolete. The real story begins now. With Iran, universal health care, energy reform and the economic recovery all on the line, the still-new, still-popular president’s true tests are about to come.

Here’s one thing Barack Obama does not have to worry about: the opposition. Approval ratings for Republicans hit an all-time low last week in both the New York Times/CBS News and Wall Street Journal/NBC News polls. That’s what happens when a party’s most creative innovations are novel twists on old-fashioned sex scandals.

Crises everywhere!

Everything with this administration and the Dem controlled Congress is a "crisis" that needs a government "fix" NOW!

Some of you will never learn that you have traded your individual liberty for statism - and soon full-blown socialism.

As President Obama's Chief of Staff, Rahm Emmanuel, has been quoted, "Never let a crisis go to waste".

This is a purely political statement - and has NOTHING to do with actually confronting a legitimate crisis.

Our Founding Fathers are rolling in their graves...

Obama is a usuper III
It is those same doubts discussed so openly in the Minor case that need to be discussed in open court today.  If SCOTUS expressed such doubts then, then our current SCOTUS ought to enlighten us now.  As I’ve stated over and again, this is a legal question already considered by our highest court in 1874 – a full six years after the 14th Amendment was adopted.  This is an important time reference which should be wielded at all who state the 14th Amendment is controlling as to nbc status.  It is not.  SCOTUS expressed their doubts clearly six years later in the Minor case which has never been over-ruled.

The issue is not a conspiracy theory, it is a legal question, a legal question that SCOTUS precedent admits to not having cleared up yet.  It is not settled law and until it is our country and the Presidency are not legitimate.



for Tommy
Tommy asks: "Why wouldn't simply mandating that insurance companies can no longer disallow coverage for such conditions solve the problem"

Because that will drive the private insurers out of business too. You would be asking them to take on a huge additional cost--paying the claims of the severely ill, while not increasing the number of policyholders paying premiums to cover those costs.

In Massachusetts, the Grand Bargain was that the private insurers would agree to take people with pre-existing conditions--IN EXCHANGE FOR mandating universal coverage, which would give the insurers a large new pool of healthy insured to spread the cost of the pre-existing claims over.

That's the deal: You want the private insurers to take pre-existing conditions, you have to expand the pool of the insured to get more premiums to pay for the pre-existing conditions.

Tommy,Primus
Probably still hungover,Hal is delusional. He says it,that settles it!! He doesn't believe it. If we say it is white, he says black. We say hot ,he says cold.

Arianna tells him what to say after she gets her talking points from Soros,ACORN,etc. He is just a paid agitator who will learn soon enough that what I said in my post is correct.

An America-hater,he is a mouthpiece and a lapdog for the socialsist in the White House.




Obama is a usuper II
In 1874, in the Minor v. Happersett case, the Supreme Court affirmed the definition of natural born citizen which had appeared in the 1797 English translation of Vattel’s Law of Nations:

…it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. (Minor v. Happersett, 1874)

In Minor v. Happersett, the Supreme Court expressed “doubts” regarding the citizenship of U.S.-born children whose parents were not U.S. citizens. In Wong Kim Ark, 1898, the Supreme Court examined these “doubts”, but did not render any decision or ruling pertaining to natural born citizenship. The Court ruled that Mr. Ark was a citizen; it did not rule that he was a natural born citizen. To date, the Supreme Court has never answered the question as to whether natural born citizenship extends to children of non-citizen parents.


Obama is a usuper
Leo Donofrio has asked his readers to post this everywhere so that this can become common knowledge.


Obama Presidential Eligibility – An Introductory Primer
Posted in Uncategorized on June 16, 2009 by naturalborncitizen http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/

One of my readers by the name of  Stephen Tonchen has created an introductory primer on Obama POTUS eligibility.  Much of the substance of the primer has been culled from my blog and helpfully supplemented by Mr. Tonchen’s own research.  This is by far the most clear, concise and powerful document created to help educate your friends and family on the eligibility issue.  I strongly urge my readers to download it and to link to it wherever possible.
I will just reprint its discussion about the important and still controlling SCOTUS case – Minor vs. Happersett:

In 1797 (a decade after the Constitution was adopted), the English translation of Emmerich de Vattel’s, Law of Nations was revised to include the term “natural born citizen”. The revised English translation helps to clarify the meaning of “natural born citizen”, as English-speaking people generally understood it towards the end of the 18th Century:

The natives, or natural born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. … I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country. (Vattel, Law of Nations, Book 1, Chapter 19

Competition !

Leveling the playing field for doctors, insurers, and consumers will result in healthy competition that drives down costs and increases favorable outcomes. Providers should publicly post their prices so consumers can shop and compare. States should eliminate burdensome regulations so insurance companies can compete equally across state lines.

Hal
I see you've finally managed to crawl out of bed and begin your "public service" of being a caricature of liberalism - and a recruiting tool for conservatives.

Hope the hangover isn't too painful today.

As Tommy has noted, you cite absolutely no sources to back up your claim that, "... universal healthcare works and has succeeded everywhere tried."

Please cite your sources - or I'll assume what you meant to refer to was "conservatism", not "universal healthcare".

Conservative Solutions !

The Health Care Plan Must Have :

1.Competition

2.Choice

2.Accountability

3.Personal Responsibility


Rowly
"Date: Jun 21, 2009 - 11:31 AM EST
Obamas' Total Control Plan.
Anyone who can't see or doesn't mind what Dear Leader has in store for the country is either blind,stupid,socialist or a combination..."

and rowley of Georgia is so elitist that he/she can see what the vast majority of Americans cannot. Gosh so superior.... LOL or wait is it possible rowley could be wrong and just ignorant, afraid and deluded????

Mr. Donahue
"The simple answer is that universal healthcare works and has succeeded everywhere tried."

You cite this as a "fact." Prove your assertion, and begin by defining the word "works."

Given the disennobling nature of federalization and the gross inefficiencies, systemic corruption, and mediocrization of everything it touches, what is the true agenda of you people who are so very quick to demand that the federal government metastasize until it controls every waking aspect of our lives?

Is there anything there beyond an angry hatred of individualism? Inherent in all these kinds of solutions is the magical belief that corporate man is evil, but governmental man benign. What in history teaches you that? Name a collecivist state that hasn't in one way or another ended up slaughtering its citizens by the millions.

Obamas' Total Control Plan.
Anyone who can't see or doesn't mind what Dear Leader has in store for the country is either blind,stupid,socialist or a combination.

They are rapidly doing away with any opposition to the take-over of the country and all its' consequences.

They intend to shut down all anti-Obama Administration voices and make everyone totally dependent on them for EVERYTHING !!

Daily we see the price of every commodity we need to live rise higher and higer. Gas prices have risen almost daily for two months. Unemployment at 10% is routine,now.

We will soon see just what Obamas' 'CHANGE' we can believe in entails. Believe it!!

George
"...Which is why the simple idea of the dependency agenda cuts like a razor through the complexities of this debate.."

Let's cut right to the chase. The simple answer is that universal healthcare works and has succeeded everywhere tried. US healthcare costs too much for too little care. Both of the above are simple facts. Now where should we go? You make the classic conservative argument about "principal" rather than the moderates' very simple argument what works and is most efficient. I guess this explains why conservatives cannot govern well.

TheHistorian writes about Dr. Douglas:
"Dr. Douglas, you and your entire state utopia need to get some common sense."
-----

Actually, this comment reminds me of Jack Nicholson's line as the Joker in Batman - referring to Gotham City:

"This town needs an enema..."

Dr. Douglas, as well as many Oregonians, should heed Joker's advice.

Government insurance=waiting death
In one country with socialized medicine one fifth of the people who had cancer died from it due to the waiting from the rationed medicine caused by socializing healt care. I propose that the cause of death for these people be listed as Obamacare when it happens in this country.

On the road to slavery.
If you had to pay all of your earnings to the government, you would be a slave. Considering that businesses pass on their taxes to consumers in the form of higher prices-and therefore are "hidden" taxes- we are probably paying 50% of our earnings to the government. We are half slaves today. If Obama gets all that he wants, we will be 75% slaves tomorrow. To him all money belongs to the government-they print it after all-and they determine what we get to keep. This allows them to spread the wealth and make us all equal. Equally dependent upon the government. Our kids will not grow up in the same country that we were lucky enough to grow up in.

georgiagal
Guess what. The only way for the government to cover everyone is the way they do it in Europe and Canada. Raise everyone's taxes considerably and rationing. So either way we all loose. Under a government plan, in Europe for instance, your child would be the first to go. Look at Michelle Obama's plan in Chicago. Get rid of anyone coming into the emergency room who can't pay and dump them on another hospital. I have serious injuries from a hit and run auto accident. I am now on disability. First off the government stalled on approving an operation that could have kept me from becoming paralyzed even though doctors from several hospitals thought I needed it badly. Next I get shipped all over the place. Several times I have been told that there was nothing wrong and sent home and then had to be rushed to the hospital in an ambulance. The government can't pay for this and the sickest people will be the first to go. And then as rationing spreads everyone else goes with it. Medicare and medicaid are a disaster. I know I lived through both. The only time I was getting help was when I had private insurance.

Taking a Razor
Looking at all that paper reminds me of the environmentalists and the trees! Obama wants the doctors to become more electronically efficient, but look at this waste! What hypocrites we have in Congress! I say either term-limits or vote them all out every two years from now for the next 14 years or so.

Since all bills originate in the House, if we only followed up with this simple procedure, we would eliminate most of what's going on.

The problem is finding decent Americans who would run every two years!

If you have the time,
google or bing Canada's government sponsored healthcare. The two main issues are (1) wait time and (2) human medical resources.

The Canadians don't have the specter of as many illegal aliens being eligible for the care either. They are already over whelming ER's so I would expect hospitals and their staff to be even more stressed.

One thing I know for sure. Every member of Congress and the Senate, along with and especially the messiah and family, will have the best...right on time and from the premier physicians and nursing staff.


Taking a Razor
GeorgiaGal: Some states require you to have insurance for 12 months, then pre-existing conditions are covered; for babies, always. The fact is if this is not the way it is in Georgia, or wherever you're from, change it through your own legislature.

Also, what's to prevent someone from not purchasing health insurance because they don't want to spend the money, then they get sick, then they need, then they want everyone else to suck up their irresponsibility?

If they take the risk, they lose their property. It's simple to understand.

Obama "Change" -> Indentured Servants

An indentured servant is a form of debt bondage worker.

Historically 'Indentured Servants' were required to work a specific number of years, usually (3 to 7), but the 'Hope' Obama brings with his 'Change', is that the 'Indentured Servants' will only serve from April 15 of one year to April 15 of the next.

The 'Indentured Servitude' class or 'Collective' that Barack Obama is creating, will only be a segment of the American Citizens, comprised of those who willingly work in an attempt to provide for themselves and their families - all others are exempt.

The children of the 'Indentured Servant Class' automatically inherit the 'Debt Bondage' of their parents.

Barack Obama hails this 'Indentured Collective' as Patriotic and a 'Sacrifice for the Common Good'.

This 'Collective' is quite similar to 'Share Cropping', where the worker is allowed to keep a small portion of their labor for personal use.

Barack Obama is NOW destroying the American farmer and food supply, by with holding water to 100,000 square miles of the most fertile land on Earth in California.

The control of the 'Food Supply' is necessary to Barack Obama, so that he can ration enough food for the 'Indentured Servants' to remain alive and work.

Those who are NOT in the 'Indentured Servant Collective' will become the owners and operators, of the 'Indentured Servitude Collective'.

This is but one small aspect of the 'Hope and Change' Barack Obama is bringing to America.

What is the goal?
It seems that our leaders say this new health care plan is going to reduce costs? Just how do you reduce costs by adding another 50 millions users, at taxpayers expense, to the existing system?

Several posters mention/complain that people with pre-existing conditions can’t get insurance. Well I think what they mean is that they can’t get insurance at regular premium rates, but will be charged premiums that reflect the real costs for treating the ailment . Once a person has an ailment, then what was an insurance policy becomes a maintenance program, and it is going to be more expensive. Is that hard to understand? Insurance Companies are not benevolent, they are there to make a profit. While Congress is in this for what they can skim off the top.

When Congress mandates that Insurance Companies MUST insure pre-existing conditions, it just makes the rest of the us pay for the higher costs, in higher premiums. Every mandated coverage increases premiums for those that don’t require that coverage. If you want to know who is responsible for high health care costs, look to Congress.

NOTHING TO LOSE
When do people make wills, buy insurance or draw up trusts?? It's when they have a home or children or savings or investments or an estate---SOMETHING to LOSE.
NOTHING TO LOSE--no reason to buy insurance.
Young, healthy, single people with little savings and renting may have car insurance because it's mandated, but other than that, they see no reason to waste their money on other insurance or see a need for a will.
The 'Poor' with no savings, no investments, no estate, 'owning' nothing outright or of no significant value have nothing to lose and Can get Health Care in emergency rooms, free clinics, government programs etc, so they have NO NEED for insurance or wills having Nothing to Lose or of value to bequest.
Health Care Costs and Insurance DOES NEED to be REFORMED--for those of us WITH SOMETHING TO LOSE, and government should step in to do this. BUT, 'reformed' in the Private Sector NOT taking control of it.
If congress can legislate 90% taxation on private sector bonuses with the stroke of a pen, then they could legislate 'rebates' of a percentage of Insurance Companies profits to be given back to the consumers of their insurance, and keep the Health Care of our Country's people in the hands of Health Care professionals and out of bureaucratic and political 'malpractice, negligence and abandonment'.

Obama I am already equal ...
Obama I am already equal under our Constitution and Bill of Rights. I / We do not need more "equality"! Your and liberal definition of equal is redistribution of my income. You have no right to my income except as defined by our Constitution & Bill of Rights. Take a long walk on a short pier!

public does not =government run
The problem with Obama and other leftists is, when they hear the word "public," they think "government" or "government-run." But they are not synonymous. There is plenty of room, many organizations, open to the public, that are not run by the government, especially the fedgov. This is like the fallacy of calling certain schools "public," when what is meant is government-operated school. This business of there being only 2 realms, the individual and the State, began with the paradigmatic event of all liberalism, socialism and totalitarianism, the french revolution.

GeorgiaGal
I'd like to see some stats to back up your claims that millions of American cannot get health insurance due to pre-existing conditions. I know there are many such, but "millions of Americans" sounds more like a political formulation designed to sway an argument rather than a useful, precise figure.

Why wouldn't simply mandating that insurance companies can no longer disallow coverage for such conditions solve the problem just as nicely without the inefficient, bloated and wasteful federal government taking over a sixth of the national economy? Formulas for premium limits could be easily built in to such a prohibition and what you're complaining about could be solved without uprooting and possibly destroying vast swaths of the American health care industry.

Why is it always the draconian, most intrustive and most totalitarian solutions that appeal to people like you? Why not something as simple as a few well thought out tweaks of insurance law?

By the way, your facile and histronic closing paragraph does nothing to further debate, but exiles yourself into the ranks of the insipid and closed-minded, a place that, if you wish to be thought a serious policy advocate, is to be avoided at all costs.

GeorgiaGal: You actually make a

good point... to a point...

"Private health insurance companies business plan is to insure only healthy individuals for routine ailments, and to find a way to exclude individuals (or, failing that, deny treatment to individuals) who have expensive but treatable diseases like diabetes or epilepsy."


There is no question that our health care needs some work. BUT, that doesn't mean that we need to jump from the frying pan into the fire.

Both the Canadian and British Socialized health care systems routinely DENY care and treatment, and on a far greater scale than ins companies.


Misleading Statistics
From Will's article: " And 9.1 million have household incomes of at least $75,000 and could purchase insurance. "

George Will is willfully ignoring the fact that there are literally millions of Americans that Health Insurance Companies will not insure at any price. These are Americans with pre-existing medical conditions (the majority of which were given to the individuals by God, and NOT by "lifestyle choices".) And, yes, some of these people make over $75,000/year, but the individual's income is irrelevant if the Health Insurance Company refuses to sell a plan to the individual that covers the costs of their pre-existing medical condition.

SCHIPS is another mis-leading example. If the child has a serious ailment (juvenile diabetes, epilepsy, cancer, sickle cell anemia, etc.), private health insurance often does not cover the treatments needed to preserve the life of the child. Only the unjustly-maligned "Cadillac plans" offered by Fortune 500 companies will cover those expenses ..... and SCHIPS. So, if I'm a middle class family struggling with an ill child and junk private insurance, sure I'm going with SCHIPS. And, you know what? Private insurance companies are more than happy to see families with ill children leave their plan for SCHIPS.

Private health insurance companies business plan is to insure only healthy individuals for routine ailments, and to find a way to exclude individuals (or, failing that, deny treatment to individuals) who have expensive but treatable diseases like diabetes or epilepsy.

Democrats promise access to care. Republicans promise to pray at your funeral. Guess who is going to win this arguement?

Sounds like Iran
The Mullahs and their ilk could have learned a lot from The Great Oz and his Munchkins (the Dems, the Leftists, the Liberals, Hollyweird,etc.) Whether it is election fraud/stealing or trying to get the people under your thumb; through health care, the banks, the auto industry (and other things Big Brother should not be part of) The Great Oz could have taught them the best and most covert ways to steal people's freedom. Here in this country which used to be the U.S. we have a similar situation to that of Iran, i.e. the people (when I say the people I mean the legitimate citizens) vs. the government. Although it seems that our government is not as oppressive as that of Iran...yet. It will be if The Great Oz and his Munchkins have their way...2010 may be to late. After all, they stole one election what makes you think they won't steal another?

Paper Shredder....
Should be used on this stupidity.

Broad ax
No razor.
No scalpel.
Take a broad ax to the Obama plan.

Dr. Douglas DOES need to explain
How the wonderful medical and personal ethics in HIS state of OR is withholding chemotherapy from people, and instead is offering the stuff needed for assisted suicide. This is where we will go under single-payer.

Dr. Douglas also claims there are MANY steps to a single-payer. The only one needed is for them to be cheaper, and they will put the rest out of business. And, initially, they WILL be cheaper, because they have your full faith and credit backing their loss leader insurance.

Dr. Douglas, you and your entire state utopia need to get some common sense.

GOVERNMENT'S GAME
Our government has turned our Country into 'THEIR' Game. They have named it and made up all the Rules. But, there are TWO sides in this Game, government VS the American people.
So far, everyday, the government's team shows up in their fancy suits and their mainstream media fans and the American People's team stays home, thus We the People default.
Well, it's time, Americans, for OUR TEAM wearing our American Flag uniforms, TO SHOW UP and start playing.
If the government team WINS the game of Health Insurance, the American People's team MUST WIN the game of Health Care, becoming Surgeons to SURGICALLY REMOVE the cancerous players on the government's team; starting with the Primary Tumor and all his metastatic cells in his administration, congress and the mainstream media.

Guns and health care are related
Once the government gets your guns, the health care will be that of the serf. You will be enslaved to the government whim in every item, including health care.

The solution? The people in this country need to tell their legislators that they are OUT if they pass this abomination in ANY way, shape, or form. And then keep their threat in Nov of 2010. It is about time that the legislators and President represent the people, not think of themselves as some ruling body.

Dr. Douglas
Rather than explaining, as he should, why this is the simplist explanation, Will goes on to deliver the usual misinformation regarding the effects of the public option.

To put it mildly, getting from a public option to the dreaded single-payer option would actually be extremely complex.
__________________________________________________________________

Dr. Douglas you like the President take something simple and feigning obtuseness confuse the issue completely. Mr Will's use of Occam's razor was to show intent not application. Intent is important when attempting to descry President liar's objective. It is simple afterall.

Just Like
with guns, its all about control. Control of the people. It has nothing to do with healthcare.

Illegal Immigration

Within the healthcare debate illegal immigration is being treated as an oxymoron first, as a justification second.

The brilliant campaigners that manage to climb to the top of elections are deceiving the American public into a feeling of hopelessness. It seems that character and honesty is the first casualty of political success. Our president contradicts himself--ie. lies--in record time when within calling distance of a microphone and camera.

They are happily spending us into bankruptcy and cheerily watching as our symbols of freedom fall.

Single Party Rule

The Democrats reigned supreme in Congress from the 1930's to the 1990's because the New Deal created a dependency mentality in the majority of American voters. Understanding this, the Democrats want to go one better and create actual dependency, which Mr. Will identifies as the Democrats' dependency agenda. Actual dependency will lead to perpetual single party rule in America, that is, the Democratic Party's permanent rule over America.

Sweden has a similar story. The Social Democrats / Unions exercises single party rule over that country for something like 80 of the past 90 years. During that term, the Social Democrats / Unions launched a scheme to nationalize Sweden's economy by requiring companies to transfer some of their voting stock to union funds every year until the union funds owned the majority of the companies' voting stock. I can see the Democrats / Unions doing the same thing in the US 25 years from now.

Could America embrace communism someday? Perhaps, but the necessary preparatory steps are the dependency agenda and perpetual Democratic Party rule.

Mommy Kiss the Booboo.
Virtually all in this country seem to me to be attention starved, which is the reason for their addiction to health care, needed or not. It sickens me to observe there is no known cure.

Insurance
I've been arguing since the days of Rodhamcare that what is needed is a simply means tested voucher program...say for $4000/yr..so that the uninsured could go shopping themselves for a basic HMO or plain vanilla private policy...and if they want extra bells and whistles on it,they have to pay for it out of their own pocket...this would keep private health insurers competitive and the illegal aliens and those who can afford it but choose instead to spend their disposable income on giant flat screen TV's or jet skis can fend for themselves

Old Sayings
One old saying is "you get what you pay for." I believe that means if you want the best, you have to pay for it.

In this case, "you get what you vote for." I believe that means (even though 47 percent did not vote for it) we're all screwed.

Just take2asprin and pass on soc. med.
Occam's razor wonderfully and worthily wielded, Mr. Will.

There is absolutely nothing to stop them from nationalizing hospitals soon after. Private practices would quickly become dependent on federal money. Private insurance would be strangled out by excessive requirements and legislation. Policy makers would then make your medical decisions, and dictate your personal habits such as caloric intake, as well as become interested in your weight.

I think I am not far from the mark.


Will doesn't understand simplicity
Will pretends to be applying Occam's razor in claiming that (in regard to Obama's stated preference for a public option) "The simplest answer is that such a plan will lead to a single-payer system".

Rather than explaining, as he should, why this is the simplist explanation, Will goes on to deliver the usual misinformation regarding the effects of the public option.

To put it mildly, getting from a public option to the dreaded single-payer option would actually be extremely complex. Think about how many steps would be involved to get to a single-payer, such as the dissolution of all these health insurance companies and the weakening of the pharmaceutical companies, all of which have tremendous power over our government representatives and media. This would be highly complicated and highly unlikely.

In contrast, if we really want to play Will's Occam's Razor game, the simplest explanation would be that the public option, being more efficient and cheaper than the insurance plans, would increase competition and cause the insurance and pharamceutical companies to reign in their greed and lighten up on the gouging of their customers. This may not be as efficient in the long-run as the single-payer approach, but given the extent to which these companies control our government, it is far and away the simplest explanation.

Keep in mind that the present system, which Will apparently favors, spends twice as much per capita on health care as other developed countries, and at the same time rates something like 37th on overall health outcomes (and we don't even cover everyone).


Health Care
I hate everything this administration is doing, but the overhaul of our healthcare system to include a government insurance plan is the SCARIEST thing by far. The Republicans have got to get a plan to fight this - our lives literally depend on it. And we have to do our part by calling our politicians and telling them we have had enough of this crap!

Befuddled consumers
GW says: "Some advocates of a public option say health coverage is so complex that consumers will be befuddled by choices."

Those advocates are correct.

The consumers who will be befuddled are those who are too stupid to figure out that they have to connect a converter box or purchase cable to receive television after the change to digital transmission.

They are the people who find it difficult to get a job and build skills so they can get better jobs later. They would rather wait for welfare checks.

They are the people who sit in New Orleans on a bridge waiting for "somebody" to help them, when they can start by helping themselves.

They are the people who are so dependent on the government that they can't function unless someone tells them what to do.

Yeah, they'll be befuddled all right. But hey, why not screw up the entire medical system for everyone else, just because a few aren't insured.

Why aren't the parents, siblings, and children of those without insurance helping them? Since when did it become my responsibility to provide medical coverage for the deadbeat down the street?

There you go again George
Stop being divisive and partisan. Reach across the aisle and embrace the wondrous social policies being bandied about by The Great and Powerful Obama. Dependancy upon him shall be the very definition of bliss.
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