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Sunday, February 15, 2009
Floyd and Mary Beth Brown :: Townhall.com Columnist
MSNBC is in Big Trouble Without Bush to Bash
by Floyd and Mary Beth Brown
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You won't hear executives at MSNBC chanting "yes we can." The network that they cobbled together as a TV version of the left-wing screed Air America is in the ratings dumper. Advertising dollars that have never been easy are getting thinner.

Since the inauguration of Barack Obama, Bill O'Reilly and the Fox News Channel have owned prime time. One night last week, for example, O'Reilly scored 3.5 million views compared to Olbermann's 1.4 million. Keith Olbermann may need to go back to sports. MSNBC is in big trouble without Bush to bash. Olbermann, Rachel Maddow and even Chris Matthews have filled their shows with nothing but anti-Bush hysteria for the last year. Now that their punching bag-in-chief has left Washington, they are lost. Bush hating came naturally for MSNBC; their commentators lampooned "Dubya" at every opportunity. In addition to attacking Bush, they enjoyed trumpeting bad news with the hopes that it would make President Bush look bad.

After Bush's farewell address, Matthews came on the air and bashed Bush as a stupid buffoon who hung out with jocks, and proceeded to laugh at the notion that he reads books. This from the same Chris Matthews who said he "got a feeling running up his leg while listening to Barack" and also said it was "his job to make sure this presidency (the Obama presidency) works." More people tuned into his diatribes that mocked the Bush presidency than the few who tune into his rants supporting Barack Obama.

Another commentator who loves to hate Bush, liberal activist Rachel Maddow, said on her show following the farewell address, "this is the start of the part where we don't have President Bush to kick around anymore. there can be no promise that we won't be compelled to try to keep on with the kicking around." She spoke with the caption, "goodbye and good riddance," situated behind her. She then proceeded to kick Bush around for ten minutes straight, blaming him for everything from Katrina, 9/11, the existence of Hamas, the recession, and "two worthless wars". She had practically filled her show with anti-Bush rants and guests. After January 20, she has struggled to find new material.

But we give her credit for attacking Obama, albeit from the left. She is a critic of the reluctance of the Obama administration to prosecute President Bush and Vice President Cheney and other officials for so-called "war crimes" related to interrogation tactics used on terrorists. She is giving relentless coverage to left-wingers' calls for a Soviet-style inquisition.

Media bias is not something unique to MSNBC, they just take it to a whole new level. As the balance of the left-stream media gushes over how much Obama works out, the same media complained about Bush's "weird obsession" with exercise. While they went gaga for Obama's inauguration, the same correspondents complained about how much Bush spent on his more modest 2004 event. While the media were slamming Sarah Palin, they ignored Barack's propensity for gaffes including "57 states" and Afghani-Iraqi translators. While the media drilled Republicans for a "culture of corruption," they give Eric Holder, Tim Geithner, Bill Richardson, and Hilda Solis a free pass, saying they made honest mistakes.

MSNBC could look on the Obama administration with an eye of skepticism and provide needed details about his Cabinet picks and their corrupt and shady dealings. They could help Obama succeed by acting as a watchdog to keep him from going astray; instead they seemed poised to help him "succeed" by acting as his lapdog and propaganda office.

If MSNBC and the rest of the left-stream media continue to attack George Bush and the Republicans, even though neither are in control of anything, their attacks will sound even more insipid. Partisan propaganda is putting the media on the path to irrelevance. They could start a renaissance by serving as a less biased source that reports what is actually occurring. Just check out how many times ABC's Jake Tapper was viewed on Youtube for challenging Robert Gibbs on administration ethics.

Americans are not stupid; they know FOXNEWS is more balanced. O'Reilly talks to Susan Estrich, Al Sharpton and other leftists brave enough to face him. We searched for similar balance on MSNBC and find none.

MSNBC could drastically improve their ratings performance by exposing all of the pork in the stimulus bill, the negative side-effects of increasing healthcare, environmental regulation and big-city political machine corruption. MSNBC could continue rebuilding legitimacy by exposing the corruption of labor unions. MSNBC hosts love to bash big business, fine, but why not hold big labor accountable and shine some light in their direction. Just a clear and simple examination of how Obama's stimulus-policy money will be spent would increase their credibility.

Being students of the media, we won't hold our breath. We suppose they will continue attacking Bush and praising Obama, until their viewers are all gone. NBC executives are doing the shareholders of General Electric a disservice if they don't start changing this programming to secure a larger audience.

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About The Author
Floyd and Mary Beth Brown are both bestselling authors and speakers. In 1988, working from their kitchen table, they formed Citizens United.
 
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Oh,Oh, poor Rachel:
maybe she can marry Ellen DeGeneris on her show to generate ratings. Chrissy Matthews is a pathetic girly boy. As for Keith Overbite, why does somebody that pathetic and bigoted even exist? He is a woman hater to boot.

MSNBC troubles?
I think they got what they deserved. Their news are half truth and only leftist listen to them. If it keep going down the hill probable will go bankrupt, which will be OK, since it's possible someone else will take over to report all news responsible. It's sickening to hear and see the disrespect they have for note only for the people but, for other reporters. I haven't watch them for sometimes already.

MSNBC IS FOR KOOL-AID DRINKERS
Fox News has ALWAYS been ahead of MSNBC's team of leftist losers and they can't stand it. Without Mr. Bush to attack they will continue to go after Fox News Channel, who makes monkey's out of them on a daily basis.


MSNBC IS FOR KOOL-AID DRINKERS
This loser network is filled with leftist hacks who constantly berate President Bush and Fox News. Fox has ALWAYS BEEN AHEAD OF THESE LOSERS AND THEY CAN'T STAND IT.

Ever hear of IANSA or Rebecca Peters?
Red Becky wants to ban ANYTHING that can send a projectile beyond 100 yards PERIOD!!!! I have the DVD of her debating Wayne La Pierre where she said just that.

ONE hundred yards? OK, I do stalk with my longbow to within 30 yards max and even with my .54 custom flinter I keep to 100 yards max. I will NOT let some twunt from Australia in love with socialism tell my hunting brethren that 100 yards is the limit.

Ever try varmint hunting? TYPICAL shots on woodchucks are 350-450 yards. Pronghorn antelope are so wary they are taken at an average of 300 yards.

Even the shot pattern of a duck or goose gun CAN travel 100 yards although so thin you could never count on taking a bird. Hell, a BB gun is about the only thing that can't shoot past 100 yards with reliability. Even a .22 rimfire is dangerous out to ONE MILE!!

Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

not far off subject
i just found an ad in townhall, requesting signatures for an inquisition into bushes presidential crimes. i would be willing to try him for his actual crimes, but this is ridiculous-----------"I hereby join Senator Patrick Leahy's call for the establishment of a truth and reconciliation commission, to investigate the Bush-Cheney Administration's constitutional abuses so we make sure they never happen again. These abuses may include the use of torture, warrantless wiretapping, extraordinary rendition, and executive override of laws." --------------- so the ever ethical democrat would investigate the few things bush did right. mr democratic senator leahy is not at all interested in the real crime, which was allowing unchecked illegal immigration for 8 years. now there is a crime which needs investigated, and if there was any way to get bush executed for willfully and maliciously violating the immigration laws, i would do it. that would be a useful precedent. have you considered resigning to improve the reputation of the state of vermont, and for the survival of the nation, "senator" leahy? dont answer that. you are a democrat.


Bush not the Man any mo'.
This is a terrific article. One of the most honest articles that I have read in recent times. Let's leave Bush and his people alone finally, and deal with the present. Ali Bambi has alot on his plate and he better focus on the more immediate problems. He keeps adding more peope to his administration that you really will need a program to know all the players. It is part of his MO, add more people which will then cloud the lack of progress. Incidently the unemployment rate in DC is about 2% as against the national average of about 7%. Everybody seems to be working directly for Ali Bambi, all answering to the WH. What a sham.

I'm on "THE PATCH"
I stoped watching MSNBC last year,during the election.I could not take UBERDORK anymore so i turned the hole network off.I have limitted myself to Lou Dobbs and Glen Beck.I'm not as stressed.

ROB

MSNBC
Hardball is the best comedy on TV, I hope it never gets cancelled!

Henrietta Hughes.
It was good that a Republican gave HH her 'hand-out ' house. She didn't have to depend on Dear Leader to do it for her.

I wonder.......
If MSDNC's Mad Cow, Overbite or Chrissy the Softball spitter will have the gonads to show this video and ask any questions:

http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandi ngpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3541216&referra lPlaylistId=playlist

I am sure that they are still showing Henrietta the moocher, but this 3 minutes will never get air time.

Trolls and paid hacks will have much to explain in just a few short months as we find out that the guy that is always late to work is going to be really late on delivering C-H-A-N-G-E

Wilson 54
This is part of an e-mail I received on inaugural day..........

Yesterday:

1. Outgoing President George W. Bush quietly boards his helicopter and leaves for Texas, commenting only: "Today is not about me. Today is a historical day for our nation and people."

Eight years ago yesterday:

1. Outgoing President Bill Clinton schedules two separate radio addresses to the nation, and organizes a public farewell speech/ rally in downtown Washington D.C. scheduled to directly conflict with incoming President Bush's inauguration ceremony.

Yesterday:

2. President Bush leaves office without issuing a single Pre sidential pardon, only granting a commutation of sentence to two former border patrol agents convicted of shooting a convicted drug smuggler. He does not grant any type of clemency to Scooter Libby or any other former political aide, ally, or business partner.

Eight years ago yesterday:

2. President Clinton issues 140 pardons and several commutations of sentence on his final day in office. Included in these are: billionaire financier, convicted tax evader, and leading Democratic campaign contributor Marc Rich; Whitwater scandal figure Susan McDougal; Congressional Post Office Scandal figure and former Democratic Congressman Dan Rostenkowski; convicted bank fraud, sexual assault and child porn perpetrator and former Democratic Congressman Melvin Reynolds ; and convicted drug felon Roger Clinton, the President's half-brother.



Bush Treatment
Of course Naddow, Matthews, and Olbermann will continue to bash Bush. This is how the MSM who are so in the tank for Obama will defend him and any mistakes he makes. They will claim that Bush messed things up so badly that it will take years if not decades of Democrat control of the White House and Congress to straighten things out.

I remember Inauguration Day and how Bush was treated when he and Laura left Washington on the helicopter. A dog would have been treated better. I didn't like or vote for Bill Clinton but I would have shown him more consideration out of respect for the office of President.

My mother always said "breeding will tell on a person". If this how far America has sunk God help us.

balanced is the difference
Although I am a conservative in philosophy, I will watch alternative viewpoints to get the whole story, however, I see little in honesty from the left, but, much in the way of rhetoric. I watched Rachel Maddow the other night and she had as a guest Alexandra Pelosi, who does video documentaries on Republicans?, and had also recently been featured on O'Reilly, anyway, Rachel's questions were far more purposeful/biased one-sided type than O'Reilly's whose was more balanced in terms of message and content. Propaganda only goes so far in this day and age, truth will always rise to the top.

Line Item
"his party had it declared unconstitutional in the Supreme Court."

Who filed in the case of Clinton v. City of NY? Well Rudy wasn't it and he is which party again? Oh that's right. GOP. He ran for the GOP nomination did he not in 2008?


Roland
"When the UN wanted to ban guns in this country."

Source please.

No fan of the UN but you can't hang you hat on 1441 or 660 for justification for the war in 2003.

Brought peace--a number of times. Cambodia, the Solomons. The sides have to want peace though and if they don't the UN can't do much to make them stop fighting. The UN gets in trouble when it goes into "peace making." See the Balkins and Somalia. Then look at Cyprus--when both sides want peace it is very good at what it does--when one or neither do--then you get Somalia and Rwanda.

Guess What

jim Location: CA
Reply # 133
Date: Feb 16, 2009 - 1:18 PM EST

This was posted here by mistake. But it's still a good one!

UN Akagi
Who cares what the UN does or dosent do where have they ever averted a war brought peace< their armys are armed but not allowed to shoot back they are totally toothless and inefective. The UNs only purpose is to collect our money and forbid us from doing anything if anybody paid any attention to them. When the UN wanted to ban guns in this country and around the rest of the world and have us pay for enforcement George Bush told them to go fly a kite and for that i will love and honor him forever.

CHRIS MATHEWS
Chris Mathews is a jerk its very clear to anybody who has ever heard him that he is in the tank completely for any left wing project coming down the line, to get him to swoon like a little school girl just mention the messiahs name, this is the reason people dont listen to him anymore, he cant hide his hate and bias. You can always tell when he is lying, his mouth is open. As long as MSNBC has loosers like mathews on their payrole they are not going to be able to compete with FOX, the public realizes that FOX is truly giving them both sides of every issue. George w Bush is probably the most prolific reader of all the presidents in history, but all chris mathews could do was lie about and make fun of him for not reading, this is probably the reason for them loosing market share, the American people know he is lying about this and they wonder what else he is making up.

Wrat Wrangler
Adding onto your post about the line-item veto, Congress eventually approved it...but it was the GOP-controlled Congress who fulfilled their "Contract with America" who gave it to then-President Clinton...the only POTUS who had this weapon before his party had it declared unconstitutional in the Supreme Court. It was a major reason why Clintonistas can claim that he brought about a surplus...not that facts really matter to most left-wingers.

Medicare, No Child, Pre-emptive war, etc

I don't buy it. Bush was more of a Democrat than Johnson. It seems to me MSNBC is bashing him simply because there is a market for it. Just like Fox has a market for the big government Republican supporters. Doesn't really matter because both parties are the same anyway.
Vote Libertarian, vote freedom.

What about the STATE level?
Remember when Bush 41 asked Congress to pass a line-item veto (AFTER they all got through laughing at him) he pointed out that many state governors enjoy that privilege why not the POTUS?

In function the state line-item CAN be overridden by the lawmakers but it's tricky. They might hem and haw about a "package" bill that was vetoed but if they KEEP trying to force a measure down people's throats that no sane person would vote for it gets obvious.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Oh Please ?
Well, you had me up to the point where you said "Americans are not stupid" ?
They clearly drank the kool-aid. What would you call that ?

MSNBC OWNED BY GE
Remember if they take bailout money will Congress cap salaries? Groucho Olbermann should be capped at say $7.75 per hour since all he does is regurgitate KOS clips. Matthews @ $9.25 p/hr he's been there longer, Maddow capped @ $69.00 p/day Help her out she probably owes taxes like her Airhead Unamerica buddy Al Frankenstein!

1/20/09 The day the earth stood ill!

Wrat
There is no evidence that line item vetoes cut pork because the Congress will just lay on more and more pork in hopes some gets through so they can go back home and say "well I tried."

George Will pointed this out a number of years ago and states with line item vetoes do not have any less pork than those that don't.

And as I pointed out, it is unconstitutional and the SCOTUS ruled correctly in this regard. That such a law turned the president into a super legislator and that was a violation of the separation of powers. The president can't execute laws and make laws at the same time which is what a line item veto would do. It violates Article I, Section 7.

Want a line item veto? Amend the Constitution.


BIAS BY DEMOCRATS
THE NBC FAMILY ARE NOT HAVING TO LIVE UP TO THE STANDARDS THAT ALL OTHER FINANCIAL FAMILIES ARE HAVING TO LIVE WITH. GE OWNS NBC AND IS OPERATING THE NETWORKS FROM THE FUNDING OF ITS FINANCIAL OPERATIONS WHICH NOW HAVE LIMITS ON THE SALARIES OF ITS EMPLOYEES AND MANAGEMENT, WHICH SHOULD INCLUDE ANCHORS.WILL OBAMA REQUIRE NBC TO STEP UP AND BE HELD TO THE SAME STANDARDS AS THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION IS ASKING EVERYONE ELSE.

Raziel
There is nothing in 1441 that gave the US authorization to attack Iraq. The US went to the UN to get such an authorization and no such resolution was ever drafted or submitted by the US because it knew that France, China or Russia or perhaps all three would veto the resolution. There was even doubt as if the US could get many non-pernament members of the UNSC to vote for such a resolution. Not wanting for the UN to reject its resolution outright, it choose not to submit one at all. It didn't even try to back door it through NATO as Clinton did with Kosovo because France would have vetoed it there as well. Only three of the 15 said they would back military force to disarm Saddam--the three that sponsored the failed resolution--the US, UK and Spain--the US and its two European lapdogs.


Wrat is WRight Again
Your description of Rush and his positions in regards to Bush are dead on.

Rush was not shy about taking on former President Bush on a number of issues.

When will these people ever learn????

Kind Regards

I still want a line item veto!!
Even if it were eventually against my interests from time to time. I'd want a President to be able to carve out pork and earmarks and keep the good stuff. Congress LOADS up otherwise good bills with tripe. They know all they have to do is say "It's for the children!" or call it the Civil Rights Act of 2009 and NO President would ever veto it for fear of losing the next election.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

I disagree................
I disagree.

MSNBC will just ratchet up the O'Reilly and GOP bashing. Any Republican not falling in line with the "O", will be lambasted and as talk radio turns up it's dissent as it's been doing lately, they will be focused on more as "haters" of "O"Bama and simply replace Bush & Cheney as the new targets.

Besides, they will not abandon their favorite punching bags....they will continue to use Bush & Cheney as fallback, default reasons for all things gone bad

Alan Davidson

Rush tore GOPers a new one regularly!
That INCLUDED Bush, McCain and the rest of Talk Radio when they threw a kneejerk reaction to the Dubai Ports deal.

I won't rehash the whole Dubai story save to point out that one of our regular contributors at the time was a commercial cargo pilot. He explained that Dubai was one of the best places ANYWHERE in the world to refit a ship or cargo plane because they're so damned efficient.

Rush ripped Bush on Medicare Part D, the shamnesty bill and a large number of other issues. The only area where he gave Bush more leeway was on the War.

Rush is like Brian Whitman and myself. Individual patriot first, conservative second and Republican THIRD and DEAD LAST. He made that clear to me in a face to face conversation on Evil Tuesday (election day 1992).

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Akagi
http://www.state.gov/p/nea/rls/15016.htm

Sorry trying to get dinner for kids ready

Husker
Line-Item Veto was declared unconstitutional by the SCOTUS in Clinton v. NY City (a suit filed by its mayor--Rudy Giuliani.

Reagan also ran up the debt with military spending so his cuts weren't as much as cuts as shifts in spending.

Raziel:

The no-fly zones which were never sanctioned by the UN, even though the US tried to use a resolution of the UN to justify their use (UN Resolution 688) but the UN Secretary-General at the time called them illegal. But that is the rub--hard to do things against countries that have a UNSC veto--illegal or not.

If I were in Saddam's shoes, I'd have tried to blow them out of the sky too.

Kuwait was no more an ally than Iraq was in 1990. The US position was what happens between Arabs is their business which Saddam misread as a green light for the invasion. After he felt the US had basically stabbed him in the back.

You do note about the UN Resolutions that the UN did not give the US authorization to attack Iraq and the UN General Secretary at the time called the invasion an illegal act? Don't use the UN for cover here--it isn't there.


akagi
i've noticed references to don juan today where there is no post there either.

Censorship
Husker:

write chris.regal@(NO SPAM 4 CHRIS)townhall.com and ask him why--he will tell you and you can judge for youself if it was proper. Remove the (No SPAM 4 CHRIS)of course. Keeps the SPAM harvesters at bay.

As far as I can tell, the people at TH are pretty good at allowing minority views unlike Free Republic or Deomcratic Underground. My posting here is proof of that. Though they are as I said earlier very anal on protecting the authors (most of them). And to quote Chris, "insulting our authors beyond reasonability." Whatever that means. I've seen a post wiped because they asked Phyllis Schlafly's position applied to her gay son, John. And Robert is banned--every post no matter how civil is wiped once found because of his comments toward Michelle Malkin.

I'd have loved to have read her post too, but it seems it wasn't too popular here--but neither am I or mine.


Akagi
Sorry, I pushed the wrong button before I finished.

We need to allow the president to do what we allow many governors and mayors to do - veto, line by line, spending measures that are tacked onto bills.

Akagi
Reagan pushed through tax cuts, but Congress spent more money. Result - Recession.

Clinton wanted tax increases, but Congress pushed through lower spending. Result - Lowered deficits.

Bush pushed through tax cuts, but Congress pushed through much higher spending. Result - Recession.

You are correct. The president has very little to do with the issue, except to hold the Congress's feet to the fire to limit spending.


Akagi
Kuwait was an ally, and that was the first war with Saddam. The second was due to all the UN resolutions he broke all 17 and him shooting at our jets in the no fly zone. As for Korea, we can't win them all, and that was 59 years ago.

Censorship
Once again, we have a problem!

Since I am reading this late in the day, I find that some posts have been removed.

Reading from the start, several posts refer to comments made by Tabitha. Of course, Tabitha's post is no longer there, so people like me don't get to read it.

I've said it many times: Unless a post is obscene or threatening, it should not be removed.

We criticize the Huff and the KOS for doing that to Conservatives.

Charles
Just curious how Reagan could take credit for the economy boom from late 1992 until mid-2001 or so when the economy from say 1990-1991 or there about was in recession. If he was responsible for the expansion was he also responsible for the contraction which happened BEFORE the expansion?

Clinton's economy was due mostly to the dot.com and the runup in the marker due to venture capital related to it--neither Reagan or Clinton can take credit for this. And since the president has so little control over the economy--he can't really take all that much credit for 1982-1990 either.


Raziel
"And as far as Tibet we stated we would defend them if China attacked them. That is why they haven't."

Look here:

http://www.chinahotels.net/index.php?o=travelguide&lng=tc

Look at the far bottom left of the map--that is Tibet. Perhaps you are confused, and meant Taiwan? But even here your statement is untrue. The US has not said it would defend Taiwan if China attacked. The TRA doesn't require that at all and since 1979 when it withdrew from the ROC-US Mutual Defense Treaty which did require the US to defend Taiwan against a PRC attack, the US has maintained a "strategic ambiguity." Saying to Taiwan, "don't press Taiwan independence too far and anger China because we might not show up" and to China, "don't try to force Taiwan to unify or we might."






Guaranteed to Fail
MSNBC is helping the Obama administration to fail. They are ignoring the obvious re-run of the Clinton administration, who were not the brightest bulbs in the chandelier. They just got a way with a lot of underhanded deals. Such as allowing Clinton himself to take credit for a booming economy, which was Ronald Reagan's. George Bush was smart enough to see the economy was running into another down cycle and took steps to lower taxes and adjust it and it turned around in only a few months. That's all Obama had to do. If we get hit now, there is no money to fight another conflict. Someone will have to take the blame, and thank God it won't be "Dubya".

I can't read the comments
That's all. I click on the comments, and only the article comes up and the Reply to Thread. Is there a glitch. I know I can't read the reply, but would someone do something?

Raziel
Are you on drugs?

"And as far as Tibet we stated we would defend them if China attacked them."

China invaded Tibet in 1950. It has been what in Chinese is called a "Zizhi Qu" (Autonomous Region) since that time (Xizang Zizhiqu). Why don't you look into the 1959, 1989 and 2008 uprisings? Rapes, beatings, killings and the like of Tibetians by the Chinese authorities are common. China never attacked the US? So the Chinese joining the Korea War and smacking the US hard in November of 1950 (the greatest retreat in US military history)is all in my head?

When did Iraq attack the US? Iraq attacked Kuwait, not the US.

45
First, as I have often said I have never claimed to be anything--Japanese, American, Taiwanese--whatever.

You can claim what you wish. But as of 1867 Japan ceased to be a feudal state. As for killing servants and the like, that was legal in the US too wasn't it? Killing of Chinese out west and on and on.


By WWI, Japan was one of the most advanced countries on earth and had defeated three major powers in war--China (1895), Russia (1905) and Germany (1918). Japan at the time was probably the four or fifth major power in the world. This would be erased by the war with the US, but Germany found itself in the same boat didn't it?

If your description of Japan in your post is suppose to be today--it is totally false.



Akagi
Rape wasn't used as punishment, but as a way to keep the people in line. China doesn't attack us "yet" And as far as Tibet we stated we would defend them if China attacked them. That is why they haven't. They need us to keep buying the garbage they send us. I don't care for the UN either at least we have that in common.

Akaqi
I know you are not a fan of the UN, guess I just got carried away. Sorry.

45
First I doubt you could charge Clinton--SOL has run. And seeing who is in charge, who would do that anyway?

Obama is resisting calls to drag up what Bush and his pals did or didn't do. That isn't going anywhere. Sorry KO.


Akaqi
I disagree with you about fuedalism in Japan but I can understand why you said what you did. As a Japanese yourself, none of you like to admit you were behind the rest of the world. But there were fuedalism mannerisms in Japan up until AT LEAST the 1960s. At that time it was still legal in some farming areas for samurai lords (regardless of what you called them) to kill their retainers who displeased them. Further, it was illegal for these retainers to leave with the lord's consent. Both of these represent fuedalism. It may still be that way in some remote areas. Even today, a company employee is expected to be loyal to the company, live in company housing, exercise and play with other company employees, buy from company stores, etc. And they also consider employees from other companies as enemies. Not everyone, of course, but a sizeable number do. And those who do are the ones who can expect promotions.

Still, as I said, I can understand why you don't agree. It is embarrassing.

RAZIEL
WMD in 1988 doesn't equal them in 2003. Radical Islam? Saddam was a Arab Socialist and was the arch enemy of the radicals--the reason he launched his invasion of Iran to stop the Islamic Revolution.

Saddam was bad. So? So is a host of others. When is the US going to invade them? Is thus now US policy to invade any country that uses rape as a form of punishment? Then when is the US going to invade China over Tibet?

N:

If you paid attention--even in this thread. You will note I am no fan of the UN.

Bruce
Tell me what countries that they were trying to establish democracy in? The US wasn't interested in helping countries establish democracy but helping those that were anti-Soviet. Neither Taiwan nor the ROK were democratic--both lead by military strongmen (Chiang Kai-shek and Syngman Rhee). The RVN was ruled by an equally anti-democrat Ngo Dinh Diem who was murdered just days before JFK was killed (and approved by JFK). Luis Somoza in Nicaragua and on and on. Forget the "pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty" nonsense. It had to do with bear any price to stop the Soviets and that meant getting in bed with some nasty fellows. I am not saying this was wrong. But let's be clear eyed about this. It had nothing to do with liberty--at least for the people of those countries.

Comment and Question
I'm sure that we can expect to see some further comments about Bush and the Republicans for some time yet. After all, the MSM needs to keep up their push as a form of exercise if nothing else. And, since they are afraid if they do research and tell the truth about Obama and friends they will lose them in the next election, you can't expect them to do that there.

Question: When Clinton left the Presidency, there was some talk about further search and charges on several criminal cases. It was decided that it would be a disservice to this country to pursue those as it might embarrass the country in front of the world for the rest of the world to learn we had a criminal in office. So no charges were pressed and everything was dropped. But now the Demicrats are seeking to indite Bush for "war crimes". If they do that, can we go back and charge Clinton too?

Akagi
You still didn't answer my comment on the receipt for the stuff we sold him that he used on the Kurds. He was a bad guy, remember all the videos we saw of his torture. The rape rooms, what I don't understand is how you feel we should of left him in power. What kills me is also the treatment of women in most Muslim countries, we need to stand up for them or should we look the other way like we did in Europe before we got hit at Pearl Harbor.
We did we did because was radical Islam got Saudi Arabia in line Europewas next then the US.

Akaqi
The threat of Iraq? Please, lets not even discuss it. Your beloved UN gave the OTHER Hussein 10 yrs to move his stuff as a result of their "inspection" tours. Did the Bush administration or did they not get agreement that Iraq was a risk to the security of America? I know you will whine "there were no WMDs" but thats with hindsight. Everyone who agreed saw the intel and made their own decision so I dont want to hear it.

As to democracies, things evolve, thats good. Democracy makes it possible for all people to be involved so a debate can ensue and people can make their voices heard. This is the opposite of what libs want in America. They now use an unelected judiciary to "legalize" their agenda. Libs have no interest in debate as is clear in this column. They demonize and seek to stunt the open exchange of ideas. THATS democracy!

Jerabaub
Are you a crack baby

RAZIEL
Only two active terrorist groups were in Iraq prior to the invasion the PKK--which was under protection of the US-imposed non-fly zone in Kurdistan and it was directed against Turkey and the MEK--an anti-Iranian terrorist group.

Saddam did support the families of Palestinian suicide bombers and so did every other country in the Persian Gulf. Going to invade Saudi Arabia which has members of the Royal Family doing the same thing?

And where are the WMD? Not in 1988, but in 2003. And Yellow Cake and buried shells on the Iranian border from 1988 with VX in them don't count. I could have a stockpile of lead too--lead doesn't mean they are small arms rounds now does it?




Bruce
Japan wasn't a feudal state at the end of WWII--it was a form of military-authoritarism like you saw in the ROK and ROC with a good deal of Shinto and Emperor worship thrown in. The Feudal system ended with the Meiji restoration in 1867. You may note also that Japan was also prior to WWII, democratic at one point. The Taisho democracy from 1918 to 1925. I never said democracy per se was bad, just that it was a naive and foolish policy for the US to try to spread it and that many countries were not ready for it. Taiwan is much better off today having been under authoritatian rule from 1945 until the 1980s (when democratic reforms began to take place) than having democracy in 1945 as a poor, war ravaged country. Same with the ROK and Singpore system post-1963 until this day.


Please
I can't believe you people talking about Maddow looking manly. That is shallow. Her real problem is she wants to be a man. So she has _ _ _ _ _ envy

akagi
Saddam was a supporter of terrorism and had WMD's. We have the receipt for the one's we sold him in his fight against Iran. He was paying every suicide bomber family $25 grand for their contribution to the cause

TS
Believe me, it wasn't easy, but I wanted to watch the whole hour to see if they had any balance. They did not.

Harold
I just hope that we do not get hit again due to the left and the new Neville Obama Chamberlain now in power trying to be as big an appeaser

Anderson659
I agree with you! Write to the (advertisers those that are left)and tell them that if they don't quit supporting these idiots, then you'll stop buying their products. If enough of us do so, it will affect their decisions on where to spend their ad dollars!

jerabaub; I don't think that I would be hanging my hat on a C-Span poll. Since there is a Democratic majority in Washington, one would have to question who exactly did they poll to get that "opinion". My guess would be that tey spoke primarily with Democrats. The British papers are just as suspect. They are largely ticked off at us for "dragging them" into Iraq.

Also, when has our foreign policy ever been perfect? Our stance on helping countries that want to establish a Democracy goes back to JFK's inauguaral address.

Akaqi; I'm wondering why, if you find democracy so bad, why you are here? Many nations have flourished under it, i.e. Japan, Isreal, Canada, so it can't be that bad. Imagine if Japan had stayed in it's fuedal system after WWII, where would they be?

M Sederoff; are you really naive enough to believe that Osama only went to Hawaii to visit his ailing grandmother? Obviously, she was critical, but the heat was being increased and he had the time to take away from poor, sick granny to meet with the ultra Liberal Governor of Hawaii, Linda Lingle to ask that his birth records be sealed! http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId =79174

Most educated people, with the exception of the MSM, would find this awful damning. If Osama had nothing to hide, then why did he have his birth records, THAT ARE PUBLIC RECORDS, sealed?!

n
And N how exactly did invading Iraq protect the US. I must have missed that.

The US had a well developed middle class, an educated elite, and a well developed economy. Compare where the US was in 1783 to say Haiti when it gained indepedence only a decade or so later. The US population in 1790 was under 4 million. Shanghai itself is more than twice that and Sichuan more than 20 times.

Countries that don't have the preconditions for democracy either fail outright or the democracy is weak--e.g. the Philippines. Spreading democracy into areas which aren't ready for it doesn't do the US any favors.

You might also note n that democracy in the US in 1790 was very limited. The president was elected by the EC which was elected by the statehouses, senators were elected by the statehouses, and only the House members and the statehouses were elected by the people and then only to white, male, property owners. A small minority of the US population in 1790 could actually vote for anyone. It was democratic only in the same way South Africa under the nationalists was democratic.

If you advocate a country only allow the educated elite to make decisions as a democracy--actually a white male-centered plutocracy in the case of the US--yes that would work. But it wouldn't really be a democracy either.

And before someone brings out the old saw "The US isn't a democracy blah blah bah." The US is not a direct deomocracy, but there are many types of democracies in the modern context of the word and under those conditions, the US is indeed a democracy.


LUCKYDOG
How is it even possible to watch one hour of that garbage?? You have a stronger constitution than me. It seems every time I glance at that cesspool, maddow and olberman are still slamming Palin. It seems olberman has a guy crush on O'Reily since he can't stop putting his picture on screen and talking about him.
I believe the management at msnbc thinks that a constant smirk equals intelligence. Obviously, not true.

Raziel
Don't forget the Oklahoma bombing. That happened during Clinton as well. Although, there is a group that blames that on Bush-Cheney as well.

And then there is a group that claims there is no war on terror because Al-Qaida doesn't exist. According to this group Bush made them up so that he would have an excuse to go into Afghanistan and Iraq. Their proof that Al-Qaida does not exist is that we can't find them. If they existed we would be able to find them. Someone should tell Jimmy Hoffa's family that he never existed because we can't find him either.

And then there are lefties, including members of the Black Caucus, who claim that 9/11 would not have happened if Bush had not gone into Iraq and Afghanistan. The fact that 9/11 happened first is irrelevent to them.

Another group, and this was a story that ran on the History Channel a couple of years ago, claim that Lee Harvey Oswald did not assassinate John F. Kennedy. George H. W. Bush was the killer. This was one of those episodes of conspiracy theories they ran. The difference was that they did not run a disclaimer saying that it was just a theory as they did with the others. They ran it as fact!

MSNBC is not news
When a friend told me that the media watchdog polls showed that during the pres. campaign, MSNBC had ZERO positive reports on McCain. I didn't believe him until I watched an hour of Olbermanna and Maddow. I was shocked. It is a campaign channel not a news channel. Thankfully their incredibly small numbers mean they are irrelevant.

MSNBC...
...whom I have dubbed the Joseph Goebbels Network will find something to fill the void of their Bush-bashing. Most likely it will be either Christianity or Fox News Channel. Most like both! Rachel Maddow (is she really a woman or some guy in drag?) Chris Matthews and Keith Olberman have got to be the most hateful people on the air. I thought Liberal Democrats were supposed to be compassionate and caring. All I hear from them is hate.

Akaqi
So whats your point? Governments other then democracies have peaceful transitions? OK! So what? You are welcome to move to any country you wish where peaceful transitions of power occur.

Now your next sentance is where you lose credibility. Akaqi says: "The spreading of democracy to Iraq sure was peaceful". I said the transition of power was peaceful not that spreading democracy was peaceful. You need to at least TRY and be honest Akaqi! As to your nonsense comment the US took steps to protect itself from the threat of Iraq. We should NEVER apologize for protecting ourselves.

As to preconditions please spare me. Please explain to us the "preconditions" that existed when America gained its independence. You like to talk so lets hear what you have to say.

What about prior attacks
First world trade attack = Clinton Admin
Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania=Clinton Admin
Uss Cole = Clinton
Mogadishu = Clinton Admin

n
Wasn't the transfer between Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao peaceful? Or did I miss that.

The spreading of democracy to Iraq sure was peaceful.

Democracy best for everyone? Yeah. And when a populist firebrand is elected president of the PRC by the popular vote who campaigns on a platform of it is time for China to take her rightful place in the world and decides to kick the US out of the neighborhood, you'll think back on that position.

And If I was Hu Jintao or anyone else roaming around Zhongnanhai, I'd oppose it too. You have 1.3 billion people, millions live on less than $2 a day while thousands of others are billionaires and millionaires. The educated elite chomping at the bit over Taiwan and Tibet and becoming more anti-American by the day. Faced with feeding, housing and clothing 20 million new citizens each year. Yes. This is a place that democracy would work just fine.

"Oppressive governments have no desire to unleash democracy in their countries."

As well as smart ones that don't have the preconditions to support it. Whose plan stood to be the correct path--Deng's Juyou Zhongguo Tesede Shehui Zhuyi (Socalism with Chinese Characteristics)which was economic reform but little political reform or Glasnost put forward by Gorbachev? Political reform while the results of economic reforms had yet to be realized. Since the USSR is no more and the PRC is still with us, we can see that Deng and those that came after (Jiang and Hu) were right. Political reform towards democracy at this juncture would be a road to ruin.

I Double Dare Them, Too


And, the same goes for our gooberment, who should be telling the World that it is not going to happen; instead, so much is made of walking hand-in-hand globally. If the OIC decided that Sec. Clinton is being "too nice" to Israel, then she could be forced to face a tribunal. If the US doesn't meet some carbon emission number, then the UN can fine.

It is all insane. If an American citizen does something unlawful, then the national political and criminal policy should be applied and not be based on what Chavez or some other dictator "determines" to be unlawful. Even that is dangerous, because Washington can do show trials pretty well.

Fifth Column News Media
Even if we get hit again 3 years from now, the fools at MSNBC and the rest of the media will find a way to blame it on Bush.
I loathe Chris Matthews and Olbermann on MSNBC. However lets not forget so many of the other propagandists on the other networks:Katie Couric, Brian Williams, David Gregory, Terry Moran, Diane Sawyer, etc. and the number one man in the media slime hall of fame: Dan Rather.
The liberal media in this country are nothing but a fifth column. Notice how you never hear the "Fairness Doctrine" pertain to them.

Akaqi
We finally agree!!!! Lets shut down the UN and ship out all the illegals clogging up the halls of that bulding! It would be a dream come true.

The UN should go
The UN is run by anti-American tyrants and despots who use our money to enslave their own people and build their armed forces. They need to go to Brussels and let them for the garbage they do

Americans are not stupid?
Americans elected as president a junior senator whose political ideals come from a man we spent half a century fighting against and whose only experience was being a community organizer, and he may not even be a natural born American citizen as required by our Constitution.

What evidence do you have, Mr. and Mrs. Brown, to support the above proclamation?

Denise
I don't think the US government--even Obama and the Democratic Congress could stand for the UN going after a former US president like he was Augusto Pinochet. Remember the Rainbow Warrior? A Greenpeace ship sank in New Zealand by the French security forces? The agents were arrested and France threatened to sink the New Zealand economy by making the ECC boycott its products and since it's life blood was trade with the UK--it would have crippled them--if the agents weren't released (and they were).

Now what if the UN tried this stunt the US could withdraw and cut off all its aid to the UN and while the UN HQ is per se international territory and not on US soil--it doesn't have an airport or a port and its employees still have to get US visas and enter through a US port--the US could simply declare every non-US citizen/permanent resident working for the UN persona non grata giving them 48 hours to leave the US. Basically, making its HQs in the US unusable. How long before the UN would fold? The League of Nations lasted about 20 years without the US and even while alive it was a joke (like the UN today). Again. Go ahead and try it UN--I dare you. I double dog dare you.




Akaqi
First of all you wrongly assume because I think democracy would be best for everybody that I would IMPOSE it on everybody. I could care less if a country says we dont like it, let them rot in their own garbage I REALLY dont care!!

As to spreading democracy I would use "diplomacy" just like the libs. However I think the best way to spread it is to be the best example of it in the entire world which America has done.

Who do you think is opposed to democracy? The people of any given country or the government with an interest in maintaining the status quo? The sinlge best symbol of democracy which seperates us from all those other countries is the peaceful tranfer of power between presidents. Oppressive governments have no desire to unleash democracy in their countries.

Sheepdog
The Jindun Gongcheng (the real name of the Great Firewall of China--the Golden Shield Project and run by the Gong An Bu--an organization similar to Taiwan's National Police Administration)now has a version being run by the Australians--one of the bastions of democracy. Clinton put forward Canivore in the US and who knows what under the guise of the War on Terror has been done since Carnivore was killed off in 2001.

However, since the SCOTUS has been pretty protective of the Internet in regards to speech--e.g. Reno v. ACLU; Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition, I doubt the US is going to have any Jindun Gongcheng project anytime soon.

Waxman can say what he wants. That criminal Ted Stevens when he was in the Senate wanted to give the FCC authority over cable, pay for view and satellite too--in an effort to go after Stern and Opie and Anthony among others--where di that go? Stern is still on the air and Ted is going to probably die in prison. Good!


Agaki - UN & Bush

"Yeah. UN go down that road. I hope it does and then I hope the US does what it should have done almost 38 years ago--withdraw from the UN and basically letting it die, a slow death off in Geneva someplace."

I have said the same thing about the threat of UN show trials. That our government would not stand up for fellow Americans, even if you disagree with them, is shameful. They are ceding our sovereignty. Look at the list of names on the Human Rights Commission over the last 10 years. Syria, Lebanon, Cuba, etc. are named. Why would the US allow any individual to be targeted by the UN is outrageous.

You could write something that another country disapproved of and find yourself in front of a tribunal. And, you know some of wild inaccurate "truths" that many of the countries believe.

Real Fairness Doctrine
Should apply to all media, not just Conservative AM radio. Will we be able to get the chance to rebutt Chris tingle in my leg Matthews or Obermann. I don't think so. The left can't compete with Rush so they do what they can to shut him up. You can start your own AM radio program but it will flop like Air America due to the fact that hate doesn't sell.

Apologize first
Before MSNBC can criticize the Obama administration, they must first apologize for failing to properly vet him as a candidate. They can't take the moral high ground unless they admit their sins.

sheepdog - War on Rush

Remember what the anit-war protesters assert that our military efforts have increased the number of terrorists and the closed for discussion mentality.

Assuming that is true, I believe that a War on Rush would create a similar impact. People have hardened on the subject and conservative listeners are doing to do what they have to in order to listen. The will pay for it, if necessary.

What I find a so disgusting is that GE Capital accounts for about 55% of GE revenues, got bailed out, and owns a freak-flad cable station. If the gooberment can demand that banks, who received bailout funds, perform and control what they do, then why is MSNBC off limits? Olbermann receives something like $4 million/year, which is much more than Obama's salary cap permits.

Left never listened to Rush
If you did you would hear him bash Bush.This proves you just say what your masters tell oyu to say

n
So. How do you think the US should spread democracy? What if country a says, we don't like democracy--we think it inefficient and like our system so you go and work that democracy crap. Then what?

First, democracy's universality will cause as many problems as it solves. The Chinese people are more hard-line on Tibet and Taiwan than the government is. Are you willing to accept the implications of your policy suggestions?

Second, it will be pretty difficult to transform many countries to democracies. You willing to use force to accomplish this?

Third, as many experts on democracy have written for years--especially when Developmentalism crashed on the rocks of Vietnam--there are certain prerequisites for democracy to be sustainable and few of these non-democratic states have these. Would democracy work in China when a sizible part of the population live on less than $2 a day, and a true literacy rate (the ability to read a newspaper) is under 50%? China says no--and I agree.

"Democracy works."

In many countries it hasn't. You know the joke Lee Kuan Yew used to tell about Democracy in the Philippines (compared to Singapore's more efficient one-paty rule). He would say 99% are waiting for a telephone and the other 1% a dialtone.

Democracy in China today would make it more dangerous, not less. It would be driven by the elites who are the most anti-American and anti-western. Who want to see China as the apex power in Asia and see the US support of Taiwan and human rights in Tibet as an American plot to weaken China. Is democracy in China--today--in the US interest? I'd say no.

As for your last point on talking, when have I ever said this. I oppose talking to the president of Iran or as far as that goes Chavez and Castro.

akagi
what i was trying to say is that if sarah would have given a response that said she even had a rudimentary knowledge of the subject she would had gotten a pass.

Denise re your post @1:05
That doesn't surprise me. Pretty soon we'll be like China where the internet will be heavily censored. Forget the First Amendment. Thats going out the window. Liberals know that if they even try to shut down radio talk show hosts, they'll meet alot of resistance. So there trying to make an end run around the constitution figuring most people will believe what there doing is right. Hopefully the ones who can figure out what there doing will stand up and beat back that attempt.

Roy
Japanese preemptive war pre-date 12-7. Japan had been doing that for years. 12-7 was an outgrowth of the US using economic warfare against Japan as well as giving direct aid to the ROC--Japan's main foe in China. What Japan did on 12-7 was not unlike what Japan did to the Russians in 1904. So calling preemtive war a Tojo Doctrine would be false as that had been a tactic in Japan for decades and even goes back futher to the pre-Meiji days.

Japan also used it in 1931 when it created the Liutiaogou Incident and invaded northern China to create Manchukuo.

But in any event, preemptive war was version 3.0 and had now been replaced by version 4.0 (spread democracy throughout the world) by the time Gibson asked the question. Palin's correct response should have been: "which one?" And he'd have responded..."What do you mean?" And then she. "There has been four of them--we are on nunber four now--which one do you mean do I agree with or not?"

Many people use the e

JFK screwed a thousand babes and the Demos thought he was the great one. Newt screwed one that we know of, and the Demo Hate machine took care of him.

George Allen said one word as a joke, addressed to one person, who really didn't care. He apologized immediately, and no one else in the world would have even known he said that, but the Demorat Hate Machine made sure it was repeated, but not explained, a million times.

Obam bam called people “bitter” and that was ignored.

A teacher gave Dan Qauyle a 3x5 card with a misspelled word, and the Demo hate Machine spread the word, but never mentioned the teacher. Dan did not want to embarrass the teacher, so destroyed the card.

Many years ago I sent the LA Times a receipt I had received from a well known store that said I bought “potatoe.” I have the letter in my file from the Times, that says they have a thousand examples of that spelling, so didn’t care about mine.

Quayle didn’t want to embarrass the teacher, so wrote the word once. He wrote it once and the media spread it a million times. Millions of Americans spell it with an “e” all the time, and the media and the Demorat Hate Machine (that is redundant) has never mentioned that fact. Living in Penna and Ind. I have seen it spelled with and e, as often as without an e.

One editor said to me, “I don’t care how many millions spell it potatoe, that is still wrong.” But look in the dictionary, the language changes to reflect what people are saying.

Akaqi, Akaqi, Akaqi
First of all yes we should spread democracy around the world. Its the best way to help the most people of a society live free. Democracy works so well it even lets lib pea brains spout their garbage which by the way I support wholeheartedly. Everyone has aright to express their stupidity!

As to which "version" who cares? I am for whatever version that says takes it to the people who want to destroy us and protect us at all costs. You realize that terrorist never asks your party affiliation before they blow you up right?

While you blather on about nonsense people in the world actually want to destroy us and you think we should "talk" to them to understand them huh?

Akagi
"Yeah. UN go down that road. I hope it does and then I hope the US does what it should have done almost 38 years ago--withdraw from the UN and basically letting it die, a slow death off in Geneva someplace. "


Well said. We shell money out to their incompetency of "talking." I believe much money could be contributed to better causes here in the U.S. Every year, Americans pay around $7 billion for U.N. operations and peacekeeping, and the dividends on our investment are paying off like Enron. I have read about many scandals carried out by UN Peacekeepers, but their punishment was usually "sending them home." I do not believe in the UN at all.

Sheepdog - Look At Waxman

" The Fairnes Doctrine won't affect the rest of the liberal media i.e. Televsion or newspapers, only radio."

Henry Waxmand and the White House have been meeting to discuss the formation of a House committee designed to formulate a manner to encompass even the internet in the Fairness Doctrine.

Floyd and Mary Beth


You made a terrible mistake. The call letters of that station have been changed from MSNBC to

MSDNC.

Akagi
Generally agree on the various manifestations of the Bush doctrine, altho I think to include the term "Bush" with the term "doctrine"(which implies a a consistent policy)degrades and besmirches the notion of "doctrine".

Bush had no coherent foreign policy, until the neocons duped him into believing theirs'.

The spread of democracy(in the Muslim world), which you cite as installment #4 of the Bush doctrine, is merely a manifestion of half-baked neocon drivel that was not conceived to benefit the United States, but rather to benefit Israel.

And Bush's desperate last-minute clutching onto this #4 neocon-inspired manifestation only occurred when all the previous rationales Bush presented on justification for Iraq war were proven to be false, if not lies.

As too many koolaid-swigging Townhall posters ably demonstrate, the insidious neocon virus has invaded and infected the body-politic of conservative thought.

It may destroy traditional conservative thought.

Ben Wattenberg, a self-described neocon, actually has written that the neocon philosophy was created by liberals.

Google "Ben Wattenberg", "neocon", for those who are in denial.

The fact Bush so readily accepted its odious philosphy underscores how simple-minded Bush 43 was, being incapable of refuting its tenets due to his own breathtaking ignorance.

Irving Kristol, one of the main founders of neoconservatism, wrote that it became necessary for neocons to hijack conservatism, and change it so as to be what Kristol and his crew wanted it to be.

Bill Kristol(Irving's son), Charles Krauthammer, Fred Barnes, are its cheerleaders at Fox News.

Regrettably, on hijacking and twisting traditional conservatism, neocons succeeded...and kool-aid swiggers, with breathtaking ignorance, defend them every step of the way.

Sad.

Akagi - Rush


Rush was critical about the spending of Bush and his Congress for many years.

Did you see yesterday that the UN is demanding that it get a substantial bailout and subject the US to the UN Human Rights Commission on religious ineolerance, which assails everything not islamic?

It has long been time we leave the UN. The US pays the most of any member country and carries the most military prowess. Somehow, they convince a lot of the world that it could do a better job with their blue helmet rapists and murderers. Take a look at the abyssmal efforts of the UN in Africa.

Aka:
Unlike you, I don't pretend to be a world class intellectual, you pompous twit.

One word of advice: EDIT.

bush doctrine
i think if sarah would have just said that she agreed with bush's stance on pre-emptive war that would have satisfied charlie and the public. but it was obvious she didn't have a clue what he was talking about. and isn't that stance on pre-emptive war kind of like what japan did on dec.7,1941? i mean shouldn't it be called the tojo doctrine or something similar? we were challenging japanese hegemony in the south pacific right? they figured war was coming sooner or later and did what every schoolboy learns real fast. he who strikes the first blow usually wins.

Publius4254
Although I don't listen to Rush or Sean very much, they really must be getting under the liberals skin. Why else would the libs bring back the Fairness Doctrine? They need a way to silence conservative opposition so there trying to make an end run around the constitution instead of just going in and shutting them down. The Fairnes Doctrine won't affect the rest of the liberal media i.e. Televsion or newspapers, only radio.

Liberal
Rush was pretty much a shill for Bush. Hannity mostly--but at times he did cross the line to oppose Bush. O'Reilly often attacked Bush--on Iraq, illegal immigration, the oil companies, Wall Street and on and on. O'Reilly has said good things about Obama--did Keith ever?

The other day, he was excited that a UN official was looking into investigating Bush for violating international law--war crimes and the like.

Yeah. UN go down that road. I hope it does and then I hope the US does what it should have done almost 38 years ago--withdraw from the UN and basically letting it die, a slow death off in Geneva someplace.

The vagueness of it all
Notice how Obama and company always talk in vague, empty, unprovable generalities about the effects of the Stimulus Bill..... how it will HELP to create OR to save 4 million jobs.

How in the world will anyone ever know which was which? And will they prove it?

The answer is they can't

Exactly how much it will help is always purposely left vague..........

Wake up folks - you are looking at a one trillion dollar package to benefit the very same people who will forever defend racial preferences and gender double standards and who voted in huge numbers for Obama/Biden

Lou
You saying anyone has no value is the pot calling the kettle black. Let's see some of your highlights for this thread.

"Go away, you pompous pseudointellectual.
I'm on to your half-truths, misinformation and disinformation."

"You have diarhhea of the mouth. You cannot control your output. You are a crashing bore, you twit."

"One reason to watch Matthews at least once is to get a look at his drooling maw. It's fascinating to watch--the man has no lips. He looks like a cartoon character."

"One reason he often seems incoherent may be his blood sugar problems. He has diabetes and it may be affecting his brain."

"I'm on to you, you pompous pedantic twit."

"Such a pseudointellectual though."

"It's a tough call with the boy named Rachel. The bobbling adams apple complicates matters. He makes Rosie O'Donnell look feminine."

"Chris Matthews can't speak without spittle flying out of his mouth. Rachel Maddow's manliness is off-putting. Keith Olbermann is said to be a prevert. Why watch MSNBC--they're creepy."

And this to Tabitha:

"Do you realize you have absolutely nothing of value to say?"

And as the above shows, neither do you.

Of all your posts all but one were insults are saying "you have no value." And that one was asking if a staff member of Obama's was male or female (and why does it matter?).

Lou
I am. So want to put forward your c.v. for us, since you are obviously a world class intellectual yourself. Have you ever posted anything of substance here. I don't recall it.

Bleeding Heart Liberal
You just proved that you have no idea what you are talking about. Rush, Sean, Glenn and others absolutely did bring Bush to task when he was doing things they felt violated conservatism. They have much more credibility than Olberdork, Matthews and Maddow, who wouldn't say a bad word about their Lord and Savior, The Glorious One, if that was the only thing that could save their souls.

The Media
will continue to back H. Obama and his Socialist party until we literally kick the hell out of them..

n
I say very little to those who don't understand. So you agree then that it should be the policy of the US to spread democracy around the world? That was version 4.0 right? Great. When does the US invade China and Saudi Arabia and the DPRK, send the 7th Fleet into the Taiwan Strait. It is going to be a long, tough slog.

To paraphrase from a rather popular Chinese book from the 1990s "Zhongguo Keyi Shuo Bu, (the China that can say No)" If the US plans to spread democracy at the point of a bayonet like in Iraq it best start building the war memorials and find the land for all the American war dead now--because you are going to have lots of Americans in body bags.

Your post is putting forward the merits of version 1.0--that is so 2001. We are well beyond that version or didn't you know that? Try to keep up.

Tell me something, n. Is Bob Barr a liberal? How about Brent Scowcroft? Just because a person doesn't agree with you or that idiot Bush 43 doesn't make you a liberal. I am no liberal as any clear thinking person here would know. But I am not a mindless Republican Myrmidon either.

eric,
it remains to be seen how long the msm can give the messiah a pass. The messiah promised miracles and said he would get the economy rolling again.

Now he has condemned future generations to pay for his porkzilla and the losers who voted for him are expecting miracles now, not 10 years down the road

But I wonder if the messiah will stop talking depression now that he has gotten the billions he said he needed to fix the economy

No, Aka
No mindless insults, just accurate descriptions. I'm on to you, you pompous pedantic twit.

n:
Such a pseudointellectual though.

Gotta be this or that...

FLOYD & MARY BETH BROWN, as "students of the media," citing sources, devote an entire column to informing us that "MSNBC IS IN BIG TROUBLE."

On the other hand, the Browns and their fellow Ultra Conservatives hold MSNBC and other members of the MSM responsible for helping to elect Barack Obama president, as Ultra Conservatives at eery opportunity charge that the MSM is responsible for the current sorry state of our nation.

How can the MSM be so powerful when, as Ultra Conservatives keep reminding us the MSM is in decline?

And if as the Browns and their fellow Ultra Conservatives contend, the MSM is in freefall decline, what does it matter what members of the MSM say?


Yes Lou
Your post (which was nothing but mindless insults) was so much better than mine which actually contains facts--so much better.

Lou, ever heard of the Chinese idiom "Dui Niu Tan Qin?" Look it up sometime.

LouLouise
Its GOOD to have Akaqi around. Its a reminder of just how wrong libs are and Akaqi is ALWAYS good for a few yuks.

Akaqi
As always you type alot but say very little. The bottom line is it is the #1 job of the president to protect the citizens of the United States of America! There is NOTHING I care less about then what the rest of the world thinks when it comes to our own self interest and preservation. Quite frankly I dont care what the president has to do to protect us thats his job! I dont even care what Hussein does to protect us I just worry that he wont. Husseiin will have only one doctrine... kiss everybody's butt. God help us all.

a
Yes. They are a little sensitive on abuse of their authors and Ann and MM are probably high up on the protective list.

In their words "insulting our authors beyond reasonability." Pretty broad standard--what exactly is "reasonability?" Some authors it seems are fair game: Linda Chavez, Kathleen Parker, Pat Buchanan among others, but Ann and MM probably are more protected since they are some of the most popular authors on here.

But have seen posts such as one directed at Phyllis Schlafly in reference to her gay son, John (which I felt was well within bounds)was also deleted. Attacks against us, laobaixing (the great unwashed)is all fine and good, but can't touch the high muckamucks who write the columns--unless they break some rule--attacking Israel, saying Obama was not evil, saying illegal aliens are human too--then the cloud of protection is lifted and you are free to abuse them at will. And in one case, Linda Chavez, her entire column for that week was pulled.

Keith, Rachel, Chris, Rush, Sean, Bill
They all have their axe to grind and people who agree with them will find their bully pulpits.

I don't know what MSNBC will do without Bush in the White House. Bush was such an easy target, the left media rarely had to do any work. From braggadocio to arrogant stupidity, he led the way.

Did Hannity, Limbaugh, or O'Reilly ever have anything bad to say about Bush 43? Isn't it remarkable that in 8 years he never did anything wrong to stimulate their editorial juices.

Oh No, Not Akagi
Go away, you pompous pseudointellectual.
I'm on to your half-truths, misinformation and disinformation.

You have diarhhea of the mouth. You cannot control your output. You are a crashing bore, you twit.

Big Trouble
MSNBC is not a news channel, it never was. They have no credibility and wouldn't be in business if it weren't for GE whose CEO is now Obama's consultant. I will never buy another product from GE again. I hope they go broke. BTW--- GE is the only company in the USA who was selling products to Iran while it was illegal...In my opinion they are nothing but traitors. Obama's staff is full of corrupt people and they wonder why there is no confidence in this administration.

N
Me? Hardly. I in fact did know what the Bush Doctrine was. I disagree with it in its current version (and Bush violated his own doctrine as it applies to version 4.0 anyway).

Version 4.0: naive and foolish and impossible to accomplish even if it weren't naive and foolish.

Version 3.0: While in some cases valid, not so in the case with Iraq as many of his father's foreign policy experts warned him on.

Version 2.0: Mostly a valid position.

Version 1.0: I agree mostly. The world can't have a veto on US action, but when the entire world is against you--even your key allies, you might want to look really hard on the question of is acting in this manner really a good idea.


MSNBC
I still think that they'll continue to Bash Bush. Nothing much else to talk about besides the recession, the one, and his decisions to implement failed policies. I don't watch the msm and don't plan to. I was disgusted by the media during the election race and have sworn off all the major stations. I find my news elsewhere.

Article misses the point
What passes for "the media," that would be all broadcast and most major newspapers, is a front for political activism. "Reporters and Journalists," hide their political agenda under the first amendment and declare themselves "untouchable."

If the media intends to continue to function as a political party, they lose that immunity and are subject to the same vetting and personal career examination as any political candidate.

Ladies and Gentlemen, start your keyboards, let the (expletive) exams begin.

James
There was in fact a Bush Doctrine--four incarnations. I believe it was Charles Krauthammer who coined the term. There was also a Reagan Doctrine ("rollback of communism), a Clinton Doctrine (interventionism), a Nixon Doctrine (US allies should provide for their own defense--e.g. Vietnamization), a Johnson Doctrine (US right to basically overthrow regimes it viewed as unfriendly to the US in the Caribbean), amd of course the Truman Doctrine (contain communist expansion but do nothing against it where it existed already--e.g. Eastern Europe.)

Now the Bush Doctrine:

Version 1.0: The US right to act unilaterally--withdrawing from the ABM, Kyoto, etc. (pre-9/11)

Version 2.0: There is no neutrality in terrorism--you are either with us or against us. This directed especially toward Pakistan--January 2002.

Version 3.0: The right to wage preemptive war--Spring 2003. And the one Charles Gibson thought was THE Bush Doctrine.

Version 4.0 (and last version): Spread democracy throughout the world. Circa 2004. Few Presidents issue a formal doctrine. What a doctrine is is the general ideological backing of foreign policies of an administration--e.g. Reagan's anti-Communism or Nixon's Vietnamization. SO yes indeed Bush 43 did have a set of policies that can be called the Bush Doctrine.

And I never saw a post from a Tabitha? Her post(s) were deleted?




LIBERALS'S DNA

We conservatives really have to be more understanding of these liberals. They can't help themselves or their behavior, after all they all have the same DNA as Pelosi, Reid, Barney Frank and Obama.
Mommy did not give them enough attention so they are still acting like adolescents and their absent fathers spared the rod.



Akaqi
my point EXACTLY. Charlie brown gibson didnt know either nor did you.

MSNBC-LOOSER
MSNBC and the rest of the left supporting so called News Media that have been pushing our new empty suit Democrate led government will soon find out how drastically wrong they have been. It is starting now and will only get worse. What is that you ask? Soon fuel will be $10.00+ per gallon, but we will have windmills and solar panels for energy(if the wind blows and the sun shines because we are unable to store this type of energy). 20-40% iflation, tax increases 30-50% on everyone, interest rates rates 15-30%.These news outfits pushed change and change is what we are getting, so ENJOY as you are standing in the soup line, if our nation will be able to afford soup lines.Thanks for nothing, MSNBC LOOSER.

n
What Bush Doctrine is that since there were four of them?

Little ACORNS
I have no doubt many of these mindless musings from the left here at townhall are paid agitators for ACORN.

They have come out from under rocks,out of sewers and various and sundry places. They have the smell of filth that makes me feel ill just reading some of their drivel.

ACORN people are all over the country,plying their trade. They use different names but their work is easy to spot.

GE
First, MSNBC is doing what GE wants--it isn't MSNBC that is doing this to its shareholders, it is GE--the company that did business with Iran while at the same time it was helping anti-US forces in Iraq by supplying them with weapons and tools to make IEDs.

Second, remember MSNBC tried this road before--to "Out Fox Fox." It hired Michael Savage, fired Donahue and hired Joe Scarborough. Then--as is often the case--Savage went insane telling a caller he wished he got AIDS and die then going to break showing a a pan of sauages while playing the Marine Hymn.

The network gave up any sense of balance and went hard left as it simply couldn't beat Fox at its own game, so instead it became the anti-Fox and that hasn't gone so well either. I don't think going back to a 2003-2006 stance will help it all that much.

Chris Matthews, The Lipless Wonder
One reason to watch Matthews at least once is to get a look at his drooling maw. It's fascinating to watch--the man has no lips. He looks like a cartoon character.

One reason he often seems incoherent may be his blood sugar problems. He has diabetes and it may be affecting his brain.

LuLu
Thank you for bringing me up to speed on the corridor dwellers. It sounds like liberal heaven over there. The REAL welfare is the money paid to the hordes of people who work for useless government agencies. Lets get rid of that pork!

a:
If your post was deleted it was because you are nothing more than an ACORN opperative and it SHOULD have been deleted.

I may be repeating myself but I'll say it again: You have no value. Get a job and get off the dole.

a
The problem is you have no point!

Nee:
Was the staffer that Obambi banished to Martinique, or whereever, a man or a woman? Just asking.

From Press Room To Strip Club
A couple of years back, around the time he was turning 50, Michael Precker was in his prime as a journalist. He'd never imagined himself doing anything else: "I knew in seventh grade I wanted to be a newspaperman."

A graduate of Columbia Journalism School, he was a foreign correspondent for 11 years in the Middle East and wrote feature articles on countless subjects for the Dallas Morning News. One year, the paper nominated him for a Pulitzer Prize.

Now he has a new job: running a strip club. "I feel lucky," he says.

Mr. Precker's career adjustment reflects the recent chaos of the newspaper business. It happened in 2006. Back then the industry was already pretty far along in its path to today's never-ending reports of bankruptcies and layoffs.

At the Lodge, Mr. Precker writes speeches for Ms. Rizos as well as advertising copy. He has given the club a new slogan: "For the finer things in life." The old one: "Where a man can be a man."

Ms. Rizos says Mr. Precker combines "great intelligence and writing ability" with a willingness to handle operational duties. This week, for instance, he wrote a press release about the guest appearance of a burlesque star named Tiny Tina. Then he drove to the airport to pick up the 3-foot-9-inch entertainer.

MSNBC
I used to be an avid watcher of MSNBC when they were balanced. They had Chris Matthews and Keith Olberman but they also had Joe Scarborough and Tucker Carlson on primetime. When they went far left I left too.

Stoned Loned


"RUSH RADIO" Denise, WRONG!
Not a GOOD TRY on your part.

GOOGLE WRNO 99.5 AM AND TELL ME WHAT THEY CALL THE STATION.

THE FCC DOES NOT "OWN" A STATION. IT CAN "REGULATE" THE USE PUBLIC TRANSMISSION LINES.

RUSH DOES NOT OWN THE CHANNEL.

REP. HENRY WAXMAN AND THE WHITE HOUSE HAVE MET TO DISCUSS FINDING A CONSTITUTIONAL METHOD TO INFORCE A NEW FAIRNESS DOCTRINE ON THE INTERNET.

PUT DOWN THE PIPE AND REALIZE THAT THE GOVERNMENT WANTS TO PUT YOUR MEDICAL RECORDS ONLINE, BUT ALSO WANTS TO PROHIBIT YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH.

ACORNS At Work.
I think many of these new trolls are ACORN operatives. They are growing in numbers and know they will be subsidized by the Pork Bill.

These ACORNS are nuts. Even the squirrels won't touch them.

I'm Sure
I'm sure that I am one of many americans who would have no issue with punching rachel mancow in the face.

Some will say its not nice to punch a woman....I would say....prove she's not a woman.

Watch in ecstasy as the liberal media continue to eat their own.......As for the rest of the hacks.......there is no money in liberal media.
People only watch the old media because its presented as "news"....which we know it is not......

Rush had the right idea:
WHEN and NOT "if" the Dems overreach to the point that we have another 1994 this time we first WEED OUT all the RINOs. I'd start with McLame, Collin, Snowe, Chaffee and Arlen Sphincterface.

Then with the money behind FOX News and other outlets we snap up a few newspapers at fire sale prices which won't be long anyway.

But wait, there's more as Billy Mays would say. Then with a veto-proof majority we RAM conservatism down THEIR throats like they've been trying to force feed us Socialism for 50 years.

How will THEY like it when hybrids no longer get tax incentives to keep them competitive or the tax props for "alternative energy" dry up like old dog poop? THEY want to tell US what kind of cars to drive? Well then we open EVERY LAST OIL AND GAS FIELD we still control to full development and when the cost of unleaded drops below 1989 levels let them eat SUVs!!

Most of the Wildlife Refuges (which are almost solely funded by hunting licenses) already allow hunting. Open them ALL up to small game and waterfowling and let the PeTA freaks' intestines explode.

Pass a NATIONAL UNIFORM type of CCW and watch St. Sarah Brady leap off the Capitol Dome with Josh Sugarman.

When Ruth Buzzy Ginsberg finally croaks stall ANY appointee who isn't a clone of Scalia with a little Bork thrown in. At least 2 more strict constructionists on the bench and even the last liberal loser will retire because "it's no fun to play here anymore".

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

How 'bout them apples?
MSNBC tilts left of center just as Fox News tilts right of center...except on foreign policy where Fox News shills the leftist neocon script(Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer, Fred Barnes).

O'Reilly does have larger viewership than Olbermann, but I believe in recent years Olbermann's show has generated more growth in viewers than O'reilly.

It is patently absurd to claim MSNBC only highlights leftists, with Pat Buchanan and Joe Scarborough constantly offering commentary on the network.

Ain't sure I'd say MSNBC's commentators are prone to "perversion", given the problems in the past of Bill O'Reilly and Dick Morris.

If the argument is that MSNBC tilts somewhat liberal, I concur.

By the way, conservative publications such as "Wall Street Journal" and "Washington Times" have been losing subscribers too.

So I ain't sure subscriber losses are only a liberal newspaper phenomenon.

One last point.

Both "The Times"(British publication), and C-Span, recently conducted rankings of U.S. presidents obtained from commentators("Times") AND historians(C-Span).

In BOTH cases, G.W. Bush was regarded as among the worst presidents in history.

So maybe instead of "Bush bashing", it is simply a recognition of reality.

How 'bout them apples?

one more thing
Since MSNBC is under discussion here, I have a tale to tell.

Once upon a time

A few months after the invasion of Iraq, American troops found 550 metric tons - that is more than ONE MILLION ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND POUNDS of yellowcake uranium. (To me that would qualify as WMD, but that's just me.)

For obvious reasons the discovery was kept secret. (Could there be more?)

Last June the uranium was shipped to Canada. It arrived in Montreal on July 5th and is now being used in Canada's nuclear energy program.

Source: MSNBC.COM July 5, 2008

LoneRules
I'll throw out the same challenge to you that I gave to two other tools. If you are so concerned about there being competing points of view on the radio the raise the start-up money and launch you own network. Don't just sit around whining and complaining because Rush, Sean, Glenn, FOX News, et al., consistently beat liberal butts when it comes to ratings. Start your own network and show us how its done. Then you can go bankrupt just like Airhead America did because nobody wants to listen to your nonsense and you can't get sponsors. Or would you go suck at the government teat to keep your screeds on the air?

JD
I know exactly where you're coming from. Every wish on your list will be granted. The process has already started - the dems are so dumb that now that they have power they will expose themselves in all their fraudulent splendor. This porkulus bill is just the beginning.

A friend of mine here in Maine, John Frary, ran for Congress. He got swamped, but in an interview with the Bangor Daily News the night of the election after it was clear what was going to happen he said "someday they'll get the connection between the government they despise and the congress they keep re-electing."


21 months to go until mid-terms

n
The Balitimore Washington "corridor", is an area from Baltimore through Northern Virginia that includes DC. It's population is made up of legal and illegal immigrants from third world countries who provide the services for low wages to the large population of black and white residents who live entirely on the government teat. Some are on welfare, but the majority are federal employees, or employees of organizations funded by government like contractors, union headquarters and other lobbyists, and associations. These people make tremedous salaries for very little work in the case of federal employees and feel they are better than most of the country. It is not surprisingly an area filled with angry and rude people that your and mine tax dollars subsidize their entire lives.

my two cents
what goes around

comes around

They prefer subtle propaganda

The key to propaganda and brainwashing is subtlety. When you’re selling socialism, higher taxes, expansion of welfare, leniency for criminals, amnesty for illegals, weakened defense systems and bigger government it needs to be disguised in terms that hide your real intent. When it becomes too blatant, all but the looniest leftists will finely tune it out, as evidenced by the ballistic demise of Air-unAmerica.

BTW, does anyone else think Chris Matthews looks like a Muppet?

Irony of Irony
Let's face it, the entrepreneurs (that means people who launch business ventures, for you BHO voters), and successful Americans are the vast majority of Rush listeners and Fox viewers. And we/they/us, are the ones being fleeced for the trillion dollar welfare bill going to the msnbc viewers. While at the same time the recipients of our hard earned dollars are seeking to use their ill-gotten gains to shut down our news media of choice.

Even so, I would rather be a part of this minority out of power, than a part of the new fascist majority.

a
Olberman is 6'3"? Thats a pretty big fertilizer bag and fills every bit of it. And matthews is 6"3" around the middle full of hot air. msnbc is an insignificant boil on the butt that is the MSM

Y__A__W__N


Who cares what MSNBC does or doesn't do? Who watches that garbage anyway? GEEZE. Get a life!!!

Chris Mathew's tingle...
Now that MSNBC has been involved in tanking our economy and rising to the throne King corrupt O(vomit)
Hopefully the people will boycot MSNBC as they did the kings tea

And Chris Mathews will have a trickle running down his leg as he receives a pink slip like so many other Americans

Nee
Great post! Tabitha wont understand it. She lives in the Balitimore Washington "corridor", whatever that means and she wants us southerners to go back to watching Daytona 500 reruns because she doesnt believe we have the same intellectual abilities as the corridor dwellers.

LoneRules
Heres the POINT! Hussein has already proven himself to be of questionable ability at best. You shouldnt have to be in office very long in order to pick honest, qulaity people for cabinet posts. Hussein seem not to possess that capability. As for Bush HE IS GONE!!!!! He has no more influence. Hussein campaigned on the bad job Bush did so it should be no surprise. Its HUSSEIN'S job now top fix it so shut up about having to fix it. See pointing back and blaming Bush only makes people wonder if in fact this clown even hasa plan to fix things. Instead of pointing he should be DOING

Tabitha the troll
Whoop, der it is!! Another chest puffer talking about Bush being morally bankrupt. Hmmm, where shall I start?

Obama had an affair with a campaign staffer and banished her to Martinique. The media ignored it, completely and there are corroberated reports.

Obama had was the rep in the 9th ward of Chicago where the public housing was unfit to live in. Tony Rezko ring a bell?

The Rev Wright and his G-D America doesn't seem cause the Pres concern, does it?

Auntie Z somehow managed to get into this Country and she was here illegally!! How could he not know?

William Ayers domestic terrorist extraordinaire...gave the COW his coming out party.

Emmanuel, Getihner, Solis, Richardson, Daschle, to name a few tax cheats, with two of them in high places.

Shall I go on about morally bankrupt? President Bush was a man of character and integrity. But you wouldn't know it it if kicked you in the asss. He rarely made remarks about Clinton and he has never (to his credit and demise) come out swinging at all the nastiness dumped on him in eight years. Neither did his father.

So, now. STFU about morally bankrupt. You are no better than the rest of your cronies or the current President who has already lied and pulled the wool.

Tabitha917
You are one of the most racist posters I've ever seen on TH.

BTW, you might be a less angry woman if you tried dating Southern men. It's nice to be around men who are actually men.

laura capp
there is said to be some provision in the unfairness doctrine the dims are proposing that excludes much of the msm from making changes should this attack on the 1st amendment occur.

There is the presumption that abc, nbc, cbs, nyt's are by their very nature already presenting both sides of the issue and thus immune from any changes.

But it seems what the talkers have done is dare criticize the messiah and that can't be allowed. It seems that while he continues to screw up and prove he is a clueless clown and first rate liar the msm can't stop worshiping him.

But when it finally dawns on even the lefties that the messiah can produce no miracles, the msm will not be able to admit their mistakes out of pure embarassement. After all the created the messiah and to acknowledge their mistake is something the lefties are incapable of doing


Newspaper
One of the Seattle and Minneapolis newspapers is about ready to go belly up if they don't find a buyer. And a buddy of mine in Baltimore said the Sun could go out of business in the near future. So the market along with the Internet is going to cause a good number of these left wing rags to disappear. We can only hope that the remaining press will be able to do investigative reports with less money, but I won't hold my breath.

The worst part is we taxpayers are
subsidizing this propaganda. GE got a 140 billion dollar bailout from the government. GE's CEO is an adviser to Obama -- coincidence.

Also, Olberman is making 7 million a year for a failing product -- shouldn't Congress limit his salary given the bail-out.

MSNBC would almost be tolerable (despite the ridiculous bias) if they weren't such hypocrites. These leftists who want government to limit the pay of bankers and corporate execs are themselves making millions. These same millionaire's think the rich middle class households consisting of nurses, teachers, firemen, etc. need to pay more in taxes.

Tabitha917
You're an idiot. You don't know what the "Bush Doctrine" is because there is no "Bush Doctrine". Yes, there are Bush policies, but there is no official Bush Doctrine like there is the Monroe Doctrine.

That question was basically the equivalent of asking, "Do you agree with Bush's policies?" And then, a fair response question would be: "Which ones?" (Oh wait...I think that WAS Palin's response!!!)

And, as has been mentioned, the "I can see Russia from my house" quote was spoken by Tina Fey, you moron.

BTW, same reporter asked Obama the following toughie: "How did it feel to accept the nomination?"...Yeah, that's fair and balanced coverage! Grill the VP candidate (not something I'm complaining about), and ask the Presidential candidate how he felt! (something I AM complaining about)

william
"We won. You listen"????

I think Hitler had the same basic line of thinking...

The whole "Fairness Doctrine" should scare the crap out of all of you. Why? All dictators and oppressors know that to control the public, first you control the media. I know you libs won't believe this because you're blind to anything true, but I would be just as angry with the "Fairness Doctrine" if it were targeting liberal news sources like MSNBC, ABC, etc.

Any government involvement with the media should be a cause of at least SOME worry!

MSNBC Pork?
I can't wait until the Fairness Doctrine kicks in and they put an equal amount of Conservatives on MSNBC. What? What? It doesn't include television?

Say, is MSNBC getting any money in the stimulus package? Maybe it's on Page 998 and no one has gotten to that page yet. May as well throw more of my tax dollars (probably soon to be Ameros) on another losing entity.

j d handsome son
i must take umbrage with some of your posts to dr doolittle/know nothing from socialist oregon.

It seems you have made him crawl into a corner, wrap himself in his blanky and suck his thumb or is that some part of the messiah's anatomy.

You must learn that you can never critisize or talk reason to the wacky left, less you ruin their self esteem.

Because of people like you, oh wait I forgot to include myself, dr know nothing probably has to visit some shrink before he can start to feel good about himself.

But there is the possibility he can analyze himself, he needs only look in the mirror and ask/answer the questions that he can answer and make himself feel good

By looking in the mirror and doing self analysis he can also ape the messiah who did the same thing at last week's love fest with his pre-screened media dupes


MSNBC
GOOD BYE AND DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU ON THE WAY OUT....useless POS station

I hope they crash and burn and there's not a dime earmarked in the porkulus bill for them...
They failed years ago... time to let them die!

With MSNBC It's Just Business
The line came from the Factor a few weeks ago and is an accurate assessment.

MSNBC might lose money as a stand alone network. However, as a part of the GE portfolio, they're a gold mine. Here's how it works. MSNBC and to a lesser extend NBC builds up Obama's image, destroys the credibility of opponents and keeps the good press rolling for Dems. In exchange, GE gets huge payback in the Stimulus package, Congress passes stupid rules, such as requiring people to buy GE lightbulbs, even when they are overly expensive and contain dangerous materials. And, oh by the way, good ole Immelt, is named as a member of Obama's new economic advisory board (pretty good for a CEO who's stock has never once gone above the price it was the day he took over). MSNBC works as an unpaid PR firm for GE, and other GE companies like Technology, Energy and Consumer/Industrial are paid back in Congressional earmarks and other tangible favors from the administration. It's a pretty good deal in terms of money, but a disaster for both NBC's good name and the GE brand.

GE used to stand for unwavering ethical standards. Thanks to MSNBC, they now represent the new breed of "sold out good ole boys". GE has become the face of corrupt businesses who sell their credibility for government hand outs. Way to go Immelt, way to go GE. You've sure come a long way since Jack left.

Pick one
Lone Rules, #19;
"WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF?" you squawk!? 2 words: Selective Targeting.

Would it apply to MSNBC? AP? ABC? Or just conservative talk radio? And who decides?

NEWS BIAS
ALL OF THESE NEWS"EXPERTS" NEEDS TO ADHERE TO THIS PHRASE."YE WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE",WHO YOU GOING TO BASH NOW?

Igna-runts
like Tabitha #54, #42;
Guess what Tabs? That "see Russia" remark was by Tina Fey. SNL is not a news broadcast, surprise, surprise!

BTW, the specific miss-Fey-quote was about seeing Russia from Palin's back window. As it happens, there ARE places in Alaska where Russia is visible, but not there.

As for Bush, his IQ and grades were higher than Gore's or Kerry's. So what are they? And he's an avid history buff, and could (and sometimes did) hand trumps and aces to university profs and hold his own with them.

JD
On target. Fire at will

Prayers for a Better Tomorrow
I want the media to continue to pressure the America's new leadership to prosecute Bush and all the GOP for every sort of crime. I hope the democrats are goaded into every time of virulence and insanity by the extreme left.
Americans need to be exposed sharply and overtly to who they put in charge of this once mighty and proud nation.

Then I want to see the democrats over reach and start their people's terror, with oppressive laws that punish us with high taxes and felony indictments for our day to day behaviors and constituional rights. Gun confiscation, wealth redistribution, leniency toward violent criminals, massive welfare spending and capitulation to our foreing enemies.

I want Americans to see their represenatives and the chief executive openly mock our values, religions, our military and other heroic figures who the left secretly despises so much but is afraid to show it openly at the moment because the public would revolt.

That will come in due time, though, just as it did 40 years ago. Some of us remember a time when even those who went to Vietnam were revered like those in Iraq today still are. But just wait, those guys will be torn down and reviled as the earlier veterans were.

I want to see the great silent majority afraid to go outside their homes in lest they run afoul of the many minor infractions that might cause them to have to attend sensitivity courses, perform public service, or conduct slave labor in a camp.

The quicker all of this happens the better the chances that perhaps the great silent majority will be repulsed by the devils they've allowed dominion over them and maybe, just maybe, we can have what is so desparately needed in this country: a second revolution in which the left is overturned and lined up against walls with hoods over their heads.


".....with all the other crackers."
"....with all the other crackers."
Tabitha the RACIST. This constitutes "hate speech", pal.

Liberalism's True Idenity
Democrats are latent fascists and they reveal this overriding character defect when they try to shut down conservative talk radio. If they can't compete in a medium like radio then they use political muscle to muzzle their opponents, thus disclosing the true nature of liberalism--fascist to the core. It would not surprise me at all if in the next stimulus package there's a healthy sum for the preservation of the nut jobs on MSNBC.

We Won, We Listen.

Since localism is the new mantra, we won and we listen to our Republican Governor and Congressman.

Rudolph
You and a handful of people would believe your post.

The NY Times is nearly bankrupt, the fairness doctrine is being let loose as a trial balloon, it will come up, and you as a militant homosexual from the Netherlands, should get out more.

Fresh air always helps critical thnking skills.

American media.
PBS is of course by far the best tv-channel, nothing even comes close. The NYT is the world's most prestigious newspaper, the New Yorker is the most prestigious American magazine. What are we talking about? The Fairness Doctrine does not exist, just like the North American Union does not exist. Get a life!

We won
You listen.

Lone- Make That 9 Hours.
I forgot to add the two hours of Mark Levin.

Throw in 2 more for Dennis Miller, who talks movies, music, Arizona football, and adds liberal doses of comedic relief.

LONE: "Maybe in your "abducted by aliens" community, aliens ARE of "public importance", BUT, ONLY IN YOUR COMMUNITY."

IT IS A NATIONALLY-SYNDICATED PROGRAM THAT ORIGINATES IN L.A.

Lone - Did You Add Up The Hours?
RushRadio in NOLA has a total of 9 hours in conservative talk a day.

We have hours of local coverage, which has equal amounts of opinion.

We have hours of Coast-To-Coast coverage.

We have hours of UFO and paranormal coverage.

We have hours of sports and convicted ex-Democratic politician.

What do you want? All Obama, all the time? They tried that in DC and converted to conservative talk because even the Liberals weren't listening.

"RUSH RADIO" Denise, WRONG!
Not a GOOD TRY on your part.

The FCC License, the BROADCASTER AGREES TO HONOR, is SPECIFIC.

"TO OPERATE IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST AND TO AFFORD REASONABLE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE DISCUSSION OF CONFLICTING VIEWS ON ISSUES OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE."


Maybe in your "abducted by aliens" community, aliens ARE of "public importance", BUT, ONLY IN YOUR COMMUNITY.

====

Big trouble? How 'bout...
"Mission Accomplished"

If MSNBC evolved and developed as an answer to the FOX and Bush madness then the best day in the world is the day MSNBC won't be needed.

They did their job magnificently and God bless them for getting America back on track. All the ratings are saying is that it may be time for an "honorable discharge".

So let Fox and O'Reilly (and Rush Fonda and the Coultergeists) now blabber away, flaccid, impotent and irrelavent, from the sidelines while the rest of America gets on with our great new President.

Job well done MSNBC! Welcome home!

MSNBC - Like NASCAR On Radio
This afternoon, my local Rush Radio station aired hours of NASCAR, which is like asking David Patterson to ref a football game.

Watching MSNBC is useless unless you want to see Matthew's leg tingle, O-mann explode, and Mr. Maddow have a meltdown.

IMO, they have a right to air that which they choose, but people have a right to turn them out. And, advertisers have a right to stop spending money on a cable channel that has a many viewers as Drew Peterson has ex-wives.

"FAIRNESS" a SCARY WORD to GOP
So let's recap,....
"The Fairness Doctrine"

A STATUTORY "fairness doctrine" is SIMPLY to follow the TERMS ALREADY ACCEPTED BY THE BROADCASTERS IN TAKING THE LICENSE, for actual FCC enforcement (IF needed).

YES, CONSERVATIVES ARE SHAKING IN THEIR SHOES!

======

Lone Rules
So, you would agree that my local Rush Radio is fair? Right? I mean even people, who were abducted by aliens, are given equal access.

On weekdays, there is only 9 hours of conservative talk.

Oh, and on the weekends, we get Bob Costas and Campbell Brown's convicted Democratic father.


Good riddance!
Maddow, Olbermann, and Matthews are embarassing to say the least! I have, on occasion, tuned in to their balthering idiocy just to see what they're saying...which is always, NOTHING! Why anyone would want to air commercials on any of these "shows" is beyond my wildest imagination!

These hosts are nothing but sarcastic, cynical, and totally hateful in their comments. They all deserve to fail! Good riddance!!!

What htey are
People who watch msnbc are all a bunch of Pinkos

Fairness FACT!
====

Broadcasters AGREE, via taking the FCC license, to allow for the "DISCUSSION OF CONFLICTING VIEWS". So, WHY NOT RESTORE the "Fairness Doctrine"? WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF?

Companies are given a license to operate public airwaves FREE according to the terms of the FCC license, "TO OPERATE IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST and to afford REASONABLE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE DISCUSSION OF CONFLICTING VIEWS ON ISSUES OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE."

====


Necessity Of Fairness Doctrine?
If Conservatives are so passe', then why the need to enforce fairness? If Republicans are so marginalized, what's the necessity?

True Liberal, Camille Paglia rips the Fairness Doctrine to shreds and said, “Every true liberal Democrat should be speaking up in defense of talk radio.”

With regard to localism, my local Rush Radio station has 7 hours of local coverage, 9 for Beck, Hannity, and Rush, 4 for UFO & paranormal coverage, and the rest is a national free-for-all. If anything, my local Rush radio station has more diverse coverage than does the local African-American station.

The fact that some are contemplating the resurrection of the "Fairness Doctrine" is evidence of the thin-skins of politicians. If you disagree on anything, you are therefore unfair.

If MSNBC fails, it is not because of the "unfair conservative criticism", but does demonstrate its BDS.

COME ON "Real World" HANNAH!
"knowledge and experience to be president"....
You mean like "the BUSH"?

Would that be his.....
THROWING OUT BALLS or BUSH'S FAILED OIL VENTURE Spectrum 7 WHEN SOROS SAVED THE DAY?(George Soros was a MAJOR investor in Harken which bought Spectrum).


HA!HA!

====

hannah
Sorry, Mr. Bush has a lot to atone for.

It was six years of Republican 'cut taxes and spend like drunken sailors' attitude that led to this debt bubble implosion.

It was Republicans (2001-2007) who spent more than the Democrats. They increased pork barrel spending from 3,000 to 14,000 projects a year, NOT PAID FOR.

They have engaged in a six year social engineering project in the Middle East that costs $120 billion a year and may well last another 100 years, NOT PAID FOR.

They have added another layer of entitlement spending that costs $50 billion a year called Medicare Prescription, NOT PAID FOR.

Mandated $4 billion a year in ethanol subsidies, as well as drastically increased cotton, sugar, soybean, corn, wheat handouts, NOT PAID FOR.

Doubled the size of the Department of Education, NOT PAID FOR.

How would you have paid for all this spending? It took 210 years for the first $5 trillion and debt and only 7 years of Republican control to more than double it.

Real World
Some of you do not live in the real world. You re still trying to bash Bush. He is no longer president. You twisted and distorted everything he did for eight years. And sadly you will never give up or grow up. No matter what happens, it still will be Bush's fault. How silly and sad.

You now think that someone without the knowledge and experience to be president is going to make the world all better. All he has to do is say the magic words.




Bad spelling--
My post mispelled immigration.

Rowly, "Fairness" Facts
"FAIRNESS" TAKEN BY REAGAN.

Starting with his appointment of FCC Chairman Mark Fowler. A communications attorney who had served on Reagan's campaign staff in 1976 and 1980, and who once equated television to a "toaster with pictures." Fowler was determined to rescind the Fairness Doctrine over the objections of Congress.

A 1986 BACK-DOOR LEGAL DECISION about "TELETEXT" coming from Judge Robert Bork and then-Judge Antonin Scalia, both REAGAN appointees.

The issue involved whether the FCC should apply the doctrine to the new technology of “teletext”. They, CONTRARY TO LAW, embraced a novel third position that had not even been argued by either party.  They concluded that the Fairness Doctrine DID APPLY to teletext but that THE FCC WAS NOT REQUIRED TO APPLY IT. 

Their 2–1 opinion avoided the constitutional issue altogether, and simply declared that Congress had not actually made the doctrine into a law, which meant REAGAN'S FCC had final say in the matter.

In the 1987 case, Meredith Corp. v. FCC, the courts declared that Congress did not mandate the doctrine and the FCC, under new chair Dennis R. Patrick (a lawyer and REAGAN White House aide) did not have to continue to enforce it.

CAPITAL HILL, AS A WHOLE, REVOLTED.

BOTH houses of Congress voted to put the fairness doctrine into law, a statutory fairness doctrine which the FCC would have to enforce, like it or not. passed the House by 3 TO 1, and the Senate by about 2 TO 1, but it was vetoed by REAGAN.

The Senate with support by Rep. Newt Gingrich, R-Ga., and Sen. Jesse Helms, R-N.C., were among those who led the BIPARTISAN charge to save the Fairness Doctrine, and in the halls of Congress, Phyllis Schlafly, president of the conservative Eagle Forum, lobbied on its behalf.




Conservative speak--
Being a conservative who speaks out against illegal immingration and the cost that it imposes on legal Americans is criminal. The only ones that fight against the illegals on a regular basis are Lou Dobbs and Glen Beck. Sometimes Sean Hannity does.
The Oblama dissaster will continue the open borders that started with peso George and billy jeff. The so called fairness doctrine is a sham, just like p-lousy and the prune reid. I like what Chuck Norris and other solid conservatives have said about our borders here in the Southwest. The fence should have been finished years ago, like 2003.

Hussein
He cant seem pick a cabinet nominee who hasnt enjoyed the "tax breaks" for the rich which they blame the republicans for but had no problem using for their own advantage. Its the first commandment of liberalism " dont do as i do do as i say"

LouLouise
You can only have fun with libs since they add nothing legit to the discussion. Just look at lone rules here STILL holding onto Bush. He's gone their man is floundering so its back to Bush bashing.

Mr rachel will make someone a fine husband someday

the FAIRNESS DOCTRINE
First, WE DESTROY THE GOP with the FAIRNESS DOCTRINE, then the WORLD!!!

HA!HA!HA!

(for your tool, Rowly)

Tabitha
You really are stuck on yourself and your kind huh? Someday I will tell you what the mason dixon line REALLY is but I will refrain so as not to offend others like you seem so anxious to do.

My Soul Nobody Cares....MSNBC
Come read the Times article..

LettersToPOTUS.com

Paleocon
Let's face it. FOX is the only fair channel. Lou Dobbs on CNN is ok on some subjects. Almost all the entertainment industry is liberal. It is good that they are losing. It is chic to be liberal.

You will be HEARING ABOUT THE BUSH!


Starting with his $125 billion "rebuild Iraq" SCAM, you will be HEARING ABOUT "THE BUSH" BRAIN-DEAD YEARS, for YEARS TO COME!

Investigating Graft in Iraq
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/world/middleeast/15iraq.h tml


THE INVESTIGATIONS HAVEN'T EVEN BEGUN!

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BW Corridor-Few Crackers
but many, many Katrina types.

The best thing to do about MSNBC
The remedy for those who are so blatantly prejudiced is to not support them in any way.

Conservatives should not watch MSNBC, or buy from their advertisements.

Without conservatives this bunch will be in the toilet in record time. Supporting anything about them makes no sense.

Tell everyone what you think of them.

Tabitha Drinks Haterade
Tabitha: Do you realize you have absolutely nothing of value to say?

cactus head
You are right I should be more respectful of Mr rachel otherwise the thought police will be putting out an apb on me. maybe i culd hide out in the AZ desert?

Tabitha
Now I do admit W didnt have a way with words but he kicked terrorist butt which btw is his #1 job. As to you, isnt just like a lib such as yourself to be culturally insensitive and use derogatory references to a fine southern gentleman as myself. Do you know what the mason dixon line is?

Minority?
Theres no minority of republicans. Most people in America work hard want to keep most of their own money and what the government out of their lives. Now that doesnt sound anything like a liberal democrat to me.

Rowly
Yeah, the AP is a crock, but it will probably survive because it's the biggest wire service left.

NPR and PBS aren't exactly mainstream media. They're something like the broadcast equivalent of the _New Yorker_ -- elitist organs not meant for people in flyover country, especially those who shop at Wal-Mart or know what Dale Earnhardt, Jr., does for a living. They, too, will survive, for we're compelled at gunpoint to support them.

MSNBC is toast, however, as are the Big Three commercial networks, the New York Times, and other failing newspapers -- unless the gummint bails them out.

Tabitha
Then you are the ONLY one wh did know the Bush Doctrine was. Uncle joe a BIT of a gaffer. He will make Sarah look like einstein when its all said and done. As to his jock i may not be able to hold his but at least I know where to wear it. I cat wait to see him wearing his over hiw head. I can hear him now "nice earmuffs huh"? He's an idiot but your precious media wont take their lips off hi butt long enough to show us that. Pathetic libs all of you

n
have you no respect for an air america talker and a proud champion of the glbt movement. Maddow just knows little beyond bashing bush, being a prison activist and pushing the gay agenda as another victim group suffering from some imagined homophobic bias.

Dan Rather
Thats all I have to abou the MSM. He downright lied to try and make President Bush look bad. He is the only one more useless then mattews except maybe olberman.

Paleocon
I hope you are right. Almost all media are biased toward the left and don't much care if everyone knows it. Remember the AP stories and pictures that were doctored from Iraq? They have no shame.

msnbc
LouLouise I agree msnbc IS creepy especially spittle boy with the tingle up his leg business. And is that a pic of rachel in the upper left hand corner of this column? He looks crepy too. Who would name their son rachel. Maybe its a boy named sue thing?

Tabitha
You are a fool. You didntknow the what the "bush doctrine" was either and I KNOW charlie brown gibson isnt smart enough to know it. You mean russia cant be seen from Alaska? And they arent our neighbors?

But I gues we shouldnt discus crazy uncle joe biden. Even hussein himself said (I am paraphrasing)"I am not suprised I dont know what joe was saying" Joe is a certified idiot because he made the "genius" statement (paraohrased) even if we do everything right we still have a 30% change of failure. And hussein is no bargin either he cant tell economics from his a@@

we will need good luck with these 2 coneheads in the WH

The choice
Greetings, Pistol, Renny, and Rowly.

Democrats are in charge now and rapidly laying the foundations of perpetual one-party rule. Consequently, every major domestic story and most minor ones will involve Democrats for a good while. The choice that this turn of events forces on MSNBC and the other Mendacious Scumbag Media is stark.

They can begin to report honestly the occasional story involving Democrats. Anything approaching serious journalism will certainly outrage many on the left, however, and probably move our arrogant, vindictive, and thin-skinned president, House speaker, and Senate majority leader to limit offenders' access. When Eason Jordan confessed some of CNNs failures in covering Saddam Hussein, he revealed for the umpteenth time that the Maudlin Sycophantic Media will do almost anything to preserve access to tyrants -- the bloodier or farther left, the better. (An irony: after sucking up to Hussein for years to maintain a presence in Iraq, many of them closed their Baghdad bureaus once the surge began to succeed.)

These outlets have only two alternatives: continue with Let Us Now Bash Famous Republicans or simply concentrate on happy news generated by Dear Leader's flacks. Either course will lead to ruin. Only the most ardent Obama cultists will stay tuned for long.

Whatever they choose, the MSM are doomed to greater irrelevancy or outright extinction. Good riddance.