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Friday, April 17, 2009
Diana West :: Townhall.com Columnist
Team O Turns Left on Sanity with "Right-Wing Extremists"
by Diana West
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I've got it.

After reading and rereading the surreal Department of Homeland Security intel report on "right-wing extremism" that clearly designates conservative political dissent as part of the threat, I finally figured out why it all seems so familiar.

First, there's the report's leading villain, the "military veteran" returning from war in Iraq and Afghanistan -- the "potential lone wolf" terrorist with the lethal capabilities. That could raise goose bumps in anyone, right?

Then there are the "white supremacists" well known for their "longstanding exploitation of social issues such as abortion, interracial crime and same-sex marriage." (I don't get the connection either.) According to the government, we just might see a growing movement of similarly pro-life, pro-law-and-order, pro-marriage ... "white supremacists." Enough to make anyone hyperventilate, of course.

And what about the "right-wing extremist" who "adopts the immigration issue as a call to action"? Or the "many right-wing extremists" who "are antagonistic toward the new presidential administration and its perceived" -- perceived? -- "stance on a range of issues" including immigration, expanding government programs and gun control? According to the report, such "right-wing extremists are increasingly galvanized by these concerns and leverage them as drivers for recruitment." Sounds like a GOP voter drive to me. Cue up "Psycho"-strains of shrieking violins.

The fact is, we've seen this cast of characters before -- many times before -- in all of the schlock Hollywood movies that year after year harvest a diseased crop of villains from the American heartland, endlessly returning them to the screen as the "crazed veteran," the "religious zealot" and the anti-immigration "Nazi." These are the stock villains -- all racist, naturally -- who are now similarly demonized in the government's report.

This fantastic worldview that sees the country imperiled by military heroes, traditional values and even border security meshes perfectly with the also-official flip side to such paranoid liberal fantasy: namely, the harmlessness of the Islamic brand of "extremism," which Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano recently renamed, and with a straight face, "man-caused disasters." Hollywood, of course, doesn't touch such "extremism" either, sticking with right-wingers-gone-wild to the very last reel.

But Hollywood-fantasy-turned-Washington-reality isn't simply crummy entertainment. It presents a grave menace to political discourse in this country. "We want to move away from the politics of fear," Napolitano declared last month to explain her new secretary-caused euphemism for Islamic terrorism.

But not too far. That is, Napolitano, who supports the DHS report, is plenty content to deal in the politics of fear -- just not fear of Islam. Fear of conservatism, however, is OK by her.

How to make it stick? The DHS report repeatedly reaches back for inspiration to the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing of a federal building, citing "military veteran" and domestic terrorist Timothy McVeigh, one of 42 million veterans who, not incidentally, have not blown up a federal building, as American Legion chief David Rehbein noted in an outraged letter to Napolitano. But while the DHS report is thin on specifics and devoid of sources, it nonetheless quite helpfully exposes the federal government's outrageous strategy to portray conservatism as "right-wing extremism."

The report defines the term this way: "Right-wing extremism in the United States can be broadly divided into those groups, movements, and adherents that are primarily hate-oriented (based on hatred of particular religious, racial or ethnic groups), and those that are mainly antigovernment, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority, or rejecting government authority entirely. It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration."

Presto -- the federal government has just taken key conservative positions, from opposition to Islamic law to support for security along our Mexican border, and cast them as primitive, "primarily hate-oriented" pathologies that are therefore beyond civilized political discourse. So, too, is opposition to overweening federal powers and "single-issue" opposition to abortion. What we are seeing, in other words, is the most extraordinary governmental attempt in history to limit the spectrum of debate by demonizing a range of positions as "right-wing extremism." This attempt is surely not only unconstitutional but also un-American.

But not in the Obama era. This is a time when the following statement would surely set off a red alert with all federal, state, local and tribal law enforcement authorities who received Homeland's report:

"What we have to do is bring back the recognition that the people of this country can solve its problems. I still believe the answer to any problem lies with the people. I believe in state's rights and I believe in people doing as much as they can for themselves at the community level and at the private level. I believe we have distorted the balance of our government today by giving powers that were never intended to be given in the Constitution to that federal establishment."

In the language of Homeland Security, which "right-wing extremist" preparing for "right-wing radicalization and recruitment" said that?

Ronald Reagan.

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About The Author
Diana West is a contributing columnist for Townhall.com and author of the new book, The Death of the Grown-up: How America's Arrested Development Is Bringing Down Western Civilization.
 
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ALERT! ALERT!
AP- WASHINGTON The president of the United States Of America was frog marched out of the white house today. it seems that President Obama turns out to be a right wing extremist..Department of homland security explained that "the president has said he does not support homosexual marriage in past statment so at this time we at homeland security have taken the President into custody. we will release him when we have reeducated him into the proper mind set. Thank you and may freedom reign! " Mark

Ignore the risk?
So, do you deny there is a risk of right-wing extremists resorting to violence and perhaps recruiting those with weapons expertise to do so? Are there any other risks you would prefer our security forces to ignore?

The report merely calls for those protecting the homeland to be aware of the prospect. That's only prudent--particularly since the risk is hardly far-fetched (note Timothy McVeigh).

The military itself has long recognized the very risk mentioned in the Homeland Security's report and has cautioned its members about it. See http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon-soltz/military-training- on-extr_b_187924.html



doug
timothy mcveigh=187 dead
liberal abortionist=40 million dead

I'd say that the liberal progressive louts in this country have a lot more to amswer for.

Let's See...
If we assume (and we all know about what "assume" really means) that the liberal/conservative spectrum is roughly bell-curve shaped, what DHS has done is effectively demonize everyone on the conservative half of the spectrum. I'm sure the moderates to the right of center would be surprised to know they're now considered right wing extremists if they so much as utter in ANY forum even the mildest criticism of the current administration.

Check out my blog for links to my video from the Colorado Springs Tax Day Tea Party. All of us were generally polite. I can't say the same for the Obama lovers (by their own admission). But I'll let them speak for themselves (on the first of the two videos).

As for DHS, this fifty something female who wouldn't have a firearm in her house because it's too much of a temptation, says, "Bring it on. I refuse to sit down and shut up anymore. Involuntary servitude is NOT an Option! And it ISN'T Your MONEY!"

As for you, Doug Indeap, the left-wing radicals have caused a LOT more damage over the last 50 years than have the right-wing radicals. Or do I have to remind you of the 68 DNC riots, the Rodney King riots, and even the protests at last year's Republican Convention?

Now the DHS, acting like a hysterical ninny, has managed to insult the military, active duty and retired by smearing them with the guilt of a few bad apples, just watch out for self-fulfilling prophecies. "Be careful what you wish for!"


35 terrorist camps
Right here in America and easily found.

http://faultlineusa.blogspot.com/2009/03/video-35-islamic-t errorist-training.html
"There are over 35 terrorist compounds in our nation. This is about the spread of homegrown terrorists in our backyard. The group, Muslims of America, have established 35 compounds in the U.S."


Not one word from Janet Waco Napolitano.

Instead she profiles law abiding citizens and honorable Veterans.

This woman is nuts, and she herself is the extremist.

Mike Savage is filing a law suit against this conspiracy waco, Napolitano.

=======================

Savage sues Napolitano for targeting vets
DHS report 'would have admiration of any current or past dictator

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=95244

What About Black "White Supremacists"?
Don't forget that the majority of African-Americans voted in favor of California's Proposition 8 restricting the definition of marriage to "opposite-sex" couples.

To 'Dug In-Shallow' . . .
. . . take your Huffington Post garbage link and shove it.

Get real
J-10,

What a silly, gross idea. Aborting a fetus is legal and for good reason, bombing a building and killing those inside is not. Attempting to equate the two is ridiculous.

And don't change the subject. We're not talking about who has "more to answer for." We're talking about the nonsense offered in West's post. So far, I see no response to the points in my comment.

Phoenix Lady,

The report speaks of right-wing extremists who would go so far as to engage in terrorism. Plainly very few people fall into that category. Reading it to refer to half of the adult population is just silly. You're trying too hard to feel insulted. The report speaks of violent extremists, not the middle of the bell curve.

As for supposing the report insults the military, I repeat it sounded a warning that military veterans may be targeted by extremists desiring to take advantage of their weapons expertise. The military itself has recognized and warned of the same risk. Where the hell is this insult you are so quick to imagine?

This made up controversy is but a bunch of hoopla over nothing.

That you may sympathize with some of the political views of those who would engage in terror is hardly reason to criticize Homeland Security for remaining alert to a real security risk.

That's "deap" alright
"Owning a slave is legal, and for good reason."

Same excuse, different human beings.

THE BROTHERHOOD OF FEAR
The sweeping indictment of conservative Americans in the recent DHS report branding us dangerous right wing nuts should come as no surprise as it is symptomatic of an insecure administration quickly losing its grip on reality and devolving into paranoia; an administration fearing a strong populist backlash over its radical policies to socialize, transform and deconstruct America. An administration headed for the rocks. At the height of the madness that shook the late 60s Ayn Rand said of the New Left that it was "a brotherhood of fear." And so it was and still is as is evident from this document.....

Click ApolloSpeaks and read the rest of this piece.

Muslims killing across
the globe and the socialists are trying to polarise politics and demonise patriots and moderates who don't support their extreme positions at home - how long until O Hussein Obama gives up on the West too and leaves us in Europe to fall under the tyranny of his Muslim brothers?

isolate and ridicule
isn't that one of the principles of the puppet president's bible, "rules for radicals". I'm a military veteran but I didn't know that by being so I'm also labeled a "right-wing extremist" - how enlightning! Screw her, Obama and the rest of these criminals currently holding office (and trying to destroy our country).

What They Fear
The Dims fear conservative thought because it is more of a threat to their power than the Muslims that are actively trying to kill the rest of us. Socialists fear the voter more than anything.

Insulting and Lacking Imagination
That this report insults and alarms us about DHS
has been pretty well hashed over. The thing that kills me is its lack of originality.
This is basically a verbatim regurgitation of the standard alert scree issued by The Southern Poverty Law Center. (Unless I'm mistaken it was one of those that got the folks in Missouri in trouble recently).
Biden must be giving the folks at DHS lessons in plagerism. Obviously original thinking isn't high on this administrations priority list.
For those saying this report was started under the Bush watch fine and good. That only goes to
show the Leftist infection is systemic throughout the Federal Beauracracy not just in Foggy Bottom like it was 60 years ago.
One hopes as this report rose through channels under the Bush Regime at some point a responsible ADULT would have inserted it in its proper place in the ROUND FILING CABINET for a trip to the shredder. As it fits the agenda of the present administration they flew with it.
This report wasn't for public consumption but fortunately some fair minded individual saw fit to leak it to the Washington press corps.
It never would of stayed secret at any rate because even if they think they can control things in D.C. somebody at the State or Local level would of called it for the BS that it is.
Remember that your toadies drop exponentially with distance from the beltway and major metropolitan centers.

Well Douggie
What about your guy, the radical leftist Unabomber? HIS inpsiration was Algore's book "Earth in the Balance". How're his victims doing, these days?

How about the radical left ELF and ALF? These organizations are into vandalizing car lots and construction sites, torching ski resorts, maiming loggers. Do you align yourself with them? We can paint with just as broad a brush!

You lefties are always trotting out Tim McVeigh who has long since been sent to his reward, and rightfully so by the law-abiding right-wingers you so snottily disdain. Get over him, already. On the other hand, how many of the ELF and ALF maniacs are even in jail for the damage they've done?

The "release" of the
Obama administration's DHS assessment to the media appears to me to be a tool, its purpose being to give credibility to the leftest MSM negative coverage of the Tea Parties and those attending. (honestly, what kind of a sane individual would join a group portrayed the way we were in the MSM media...if I didn't know the truth, I wouldn't!)
If the Department of Homeland Security calls on police and other law enforcements agencies to be on the look out for right wing extremists. Having the report strategically placed before or after biased Tea Party coverage it would certianly lend an appearance of truthfulness to their slanted veiw.

Can we really allow this type of behavior in our news agencies and in our government. President Obama needs to set an example and fire the head of the DHS. He should send a message to all his appointees that using government funds for the coersion of the American people by his administration is not acceptable.
If he doesn't, I guess we will all have to determine for ourselves if it was his plan for minipulating the American people ...or not.

The
wording came from Obam's Regime & some sources say it was him.

Obama's Regime is also offended by having pictures of Jesus behind him when he is reading the teleprompter.
Obama's Regime also is exploring the possibility of requiring news AND bloggers to get a govenment approved license to operate.

Since i disagree with his Socialist aspirations, i must be a "right wing extremist"

I am sending Nancy Pelosi
a piece of "astroturf" with my families photo adhered to it. I will include a polite and very SINCERE note letting her know how I feel about being portrayed in such a negative way.

can't afford "astroturf"...
I will be sending the more affordable indoor/ourdoor carpet grass to Nancy Pelosi instead!

HOME LAND SECURITY REPORT
I had to laugh at the true fool who is head of Homeland Security standing by her report. I attended our local Tea Party in my hometown here in Texas. Who was there? Community leaders, my neighbors, grandparents, parents, veterans - in short THE BACKBONE OF THIS NATION - the people who have worked all their lives, paid their taxes, and voted. I dare say that less than 1% of these people have ever received a food stamp or government help check of any kind. A real terrorist, my 92 year old mother, attended her town's Tea Party in another state with her 85 year old neighbor. Those two widows are scary indeed! But maybe they are since Mom can't pass security at the airport without a total frisk since she has a metal hip from hip replacement - our Homeland Security at work!

For the head of Homeland Security to demonize these people is idiotic. As strongly as the left hates middle America, they should remember we're the ones who foot the bill for every giveaway they devise, pay for our military, and their salaries. With an idiot like this, who lacks a shred of common sense, running Homeland Security, I we are in real danger!

FYI
Fox News’s Catherine Herridge revealed that the report, along with an earlier report on radicalized left-wing groups, was actually “requested by the Bush administration” but not completed until recently:

HERRIDGE: Well this is an element of the story which has largely gone unreported. One looks at right-wing groups, as you mentioned. And a second is on left-wing groups. Significantly, both were requested by the Bush administration but not finished until President Bush left office.

Let's just remember...
...this woman was appointed by a President who favors the elimination of secret ballots in Union elections.

Doug
For what good reason is abortion legal?

IF YOU DON'T PAY ATTENTION, DON'T VOTE!
"Reverend" Jeremiah Wright did everything he could to let the world know all about who the total idiots of this country were getting ready to elect. O'Bama sat and listened to him for 20 years, for God's sakes! But no! Focusing on that was negative campagning! Remember? Remember the Moron Republican nominee telling everybody to knock it off? Anyone who was paying even the slightest of attention to what Wright was saying shouldn't be surprised by this. For all of you folks who voted for Barack O'Bama and are surprised by this, please don't vote anymore unless you get yourself some help - you're too friggin stupid. And to John McCain - may you rot for knowingly throwing an election!

TH readers...
Email your Senators and Representatives TODAY asking them to demand Janet Napolitano's resignation. Do it now!

I am...
...A political conservative
...a devout Roman Catholic
...opposed to legalized abortion
...opposed to same-sex "marriage" and other behavior-based privileges couched as "rights"
...in favor of tightening our border security
...opposed to allowing to stay in this country those who violated laws to get here
...a 12-year veteran of the US Air Force Reserve
...in favor of reducing federal power with respect to state authority and in accordance with the Constitution
...a gun owner
...opposed to government ownership or stake in private industry
...in favor of serious punishments for serious crimes
...strongly opposed to most of the stated opinions and positions of our current president.

Am I now a suspected terrorist?

This is not a conversation piece
This is an official document. This is an official "assessment". It is meant to be used by law enforcement agencies all over the US. The genesis of this report must be uncovered. It must be investigated by Congress. It must be retracted. Janets faux "apology" doesn't cut it.

Well
look where taking God out of schools has gotten U.S.. And don't get in MY face with YOUR God! Worship your God at home and under a rock cause I ain't puttin up with THAT! This is a free country! I'm ok, you're ok. Live and let live. How's that working for you now? There is only one solution for the infection that is rotting America. You rejected God's only Son and look what you got. Sooooo if you receive God's only Son......It's not a trick question.

Re: Happy Jake
Hey, so am I. Who would have thougt it. I don't think anyone who knows me would have pegged me as a terrorist, but it must be so. I need to go out and get a bumper sticker with a yellow caution sign stating that I'm a "rightwing extremist". Maybe that will scare liberals enough to quit tail gating me.

Paranoia stikes deep
This administration should fear the public and try to label us. It is purposefully ignoring the Constitution and pushing the country into Socialism VERY WELL AWARE that it is going to face huge resistance on all levels.

What a better tactic than to label moderate and right wing Americans as a threat, redefine right as wrong and bastardize those of us who love our country far more than we respect a cadre of elected officials who are rewriting all of the rules. The odd thing is that the Leftist nuts are far more dangerous, on any level, than moderate or right wingers.

Christians, Jews, Catholics, atheists, veterans hunters, gun owners, anti abortionists, opponents of illegal immigration, those of us who DEMAND fiscal responsibility and transparency and accountability on all levels of government are a HUGE threat to these paranoid anti american fools and they know it.

Rest assured that the DHS statement is no accident and unless American's demand that DHS stop its brand of PROFILING and get the hell out of our lives, we will be forced to deal with the Marxists policies of this louse and flea infested administration.



What A Bunch of Loons

It's no wonder the Republican core is shriveling up like a piece of paper in a campfire. Basing an entire movement on disinformation and logical failings will, in the long run, turn you into ashes.

First off, the logical failing. The report neither said nor implied that conservatives are terrorists. Nor did it indicate conservative beliefs are terrorist in nature. The report said there is a population that poses a terrorist threat and that population tends to come from those who hold those beliefs and attitudes. This logical fallacy seems inbred in modern conservatives.

Second, the rhetorical failing. In the last two election cycles people tired mightily of a right wing propaganda machine that pounced on a fragement of a sentence or paragraph and hyperbolized its meaning. This is the same thing that drove scads of people away from you in teh past, and it will do so again. I mean, even Bernie Goldberg was on TV the other day telling conservatives to stop it, and when Bernie Goldberg is the voice of reason, you movement has lost its way in a big way.

Third, the denial of the facts. You can whine all you want about such claims, but the reality is that conservative blogs, incuding this one, regularly feature references to armed revolution and secession. You listen and applaud, and then when someone says "Hey there's a lot of talk about armed revolution and secession and it's coming from the conservative community." you go "who me?"


Jon A. and other like him
"Second, the rhetorical failing. In the last two election cycles people tired mightily of a right wing propaganda machine that pounced on a fragement of a sentence or paragraph and hyperbolized its meaning."

"rhetorical failing. In the last two election cycles people tired mightily of a right wing propaganda machine that pounced on a fragement of a sentence or paragraph and hyperbolized its meaning."


Seriously, you don't think the "left" is guilty of these very same things??? Go look at the comments in a liberal blog. Watch MSNBC news. I'm not old, but I'm old enough to have parents who taught me about people who live in glass houses...

Sorry Jon A--That was for "John"
My big mistake.

true
If one ignores the largest act of domestic terrorism on American soil, there has never been anything like the figure described in this report. Oh yeah, and the guy who set the bomb at the olympics and murdered abortion doctors, and the people who bombed abortion clinics. And then there is the guy who just murdered three policemen in Pittsburg.

But other than the real world examples, this is the kind of thing one can only find in Hollywood. Because if one doesn't count the real world examples, there are no real world examples.

More seriously, this is a report begun under the Bush Administration. It was paired with a similar report about left wing extremism. And what will matter is what policy actually follows from these reports. Sketching profiles of possible problems is something the government can do without violating anyones rights. But illegal wiretapping as was done under Bush is more dangerous. And a president, like Bush, who thinks he has the power to hold people indefinitely on his own say so with no oversight are particularly scary.

So far there is no indication that Obama is inclined to the abuses of the Bush years. His release of the torture memos yesterday was a good step to show he does not plan to repeat these abuses, even if he is not inclined to prosecute the people who carried them out.

Sorry for the double quote too
I'm battin' a thousand today. Just busy..

isolate and ridicule
That's right Scott! Can you post the rest of the "rules?" I think every "right-wing extremists" should keep a copy of these rules at hand. This is Obama's handbook. Isn't one of the first rules of warfare to "know thy enemy?"

While were at it, maybe we should all be well-versed in SunTzu's Art of War.

In any case, the left is growing increasing bold in their insults and ad-hominem attacks. This is a good sign. When they start throwing insults instead of facts, you've won.

Proud...
to be an enemy of the state, if that's what an enemy looks like that is. Funny thing is, all those young and ignorant people who voted for BO don't know about this and would shrug if they did. Way to go...

Wake up folks, BO just declared his political opposition "enemies of America". So much for hope, change and unity...lip service, nothing more.

Better take the gloves off people, Tea Parties are a nice start I guess...

From Joel-De Oppresso Liber
"If McVeigh had taken targeted Janet Reno, and/or Bill Clinton, then his actions would have been just, and he would have been a hero, instead of a murdering fool."

Ya'll agree with this?????

Napolitano "apology" means nothing
Janet Napolitano may offer some weak apology to the Veterans, but they and we are already labeled as dangerous rightwing extremists. I am afraid the damage will not be healed by a forced apology. And do we really think they will purge their lists? One million Americans are already on the “No Fly” list. A five year old boy was detained, searched, and his mother couldn’t even give him a hug because he had the same name as someone on the “No Fly” list.

They are playing the race card to the hilt. Claiming that there are so many who are incensed that a black man was elected – in other words so many dangerous WHITE RACIST rightwing extremists that they have to be sure that no Veteran joins their ranks. To my friends Pack and Shera, Don’t worry. Even though Pack’s a Veteran and we picketed the abortion center together, it is just we whites they are “afraid of.”

We must attempt to bring formal complaints against the Obama administration. July 4th should be a rallying day, but not just a Tea Party. Attendees should bring writen complaints against this Administration and serve the White House Resident and his staff and all appointees with papers addressing our grievances.

Mmm…Luther...95 Theses…would 95 be enough...

Re: John from Pennsylvania
The reason the republican party is shriveling is because they have been behaving like democrats. People complained about Bush saying that he was too concervative or calling him a neocon. Blah...Blah....Blah. The fact is, he was not fiscally conservative at all.
I would love to have a viable alternative to the two twin political parties which now masquerade as being different. The platform of such a party would be (among other things) to drastically reduce the size of the federal government and to establish term limits for legislative representatives. Abolish the income tax and establish instead a modest sales tax on all but the sale of groceries. There are many ways to solve the problems that are country is facing, but none of them involve the federal government intervening.

Lisa
I really don't disagree in principle. Of course the left does the same thing at times. However, that was never the heart of the liberal message. And conservatives offer nothing but this kind of misdirection and misrepresentation.

For example, none of the conservatives bloviating on the topic have mentioned that the report was initiated by the Bush administration or that a similar report details possible sources of left wing terrorism.

No one here has bothered to point out that such posts as this one, "If McVeigh had taken targeted Janet Reno, and/or Bill Clinton, then his actions would have been just, and he would have been a hero, instead of a murdering fool." provide a very basis upon which to draw the conclusion.

There is nothing wrong with the report, but there are dozens of screeds on right wing blogs which misrepresent it. Its all you have.



Gayle
It's not just the Republican party that is shriveling. If that were the case, a third party would be growing. Instead, the Democrat party now boasts a higher level of voter identification than at any time in recent memory.

At some point in the not too distant future, the conservative movement will be a bunch of cranky old men, almost all white, sitting around in rocking chairs, nervously fingering their assault weapons. All 50 of them will be whining about the government while they collect SS and use medicare to pay their doctors.




Re: Lon
Obama hasn't given up the right that Bush used to "wire-tap" whomever he deems an enemy.

What about the millions of babies being killed by "choice" proponents who want to abdicate responsibility for their choices. Generally speaking people choose whether thay have sex or not. Killing the baby because you made a mistake is even worse than GM, AIG, failed banks, and foreclosed home owners asking to be bailed out because they made a mistake.

I've come to find that "liberals" are defined as people who want to find someone else to blame, for their own choices. Hitler blamed Jews (he was of jewish decent). Obama blames the rich (he's rich). Gays blame haters (they are haters). Interesting isn't it, that no matter how much people try to pin responsibility on others, it just points back at them.

Yes, I am to blame for my own situation, and I plan on doing something about it by voting early and often ;-)

Robert
Y'all agree with this???

Do you believe Reno should be held responsible for the deaths at Waco?

John
"At some point in the not too distant future, the conservative movement will be a bunch of cranky old men"

You are delusional. You ignore the Obama backlash at your own peril (and no it's not about race).
Your comment doesn't even make sense demographically. Liberals have what, 0.8 children per family (they keep aborting them), while conservative families are much larger. I for one have 7 children. The most conservative state in the union, Utah, has the youngest average population of any state in the union.



John "No one here has bothered
No one here has bothered to point out that such posts as this one, "If McVeigh had taken targeted Janet Reno, and/or Bill Clinton, then his actions would have been just, and he would have been a hero, instead of a murdering fool." provide a very basis upon which to draw the conclusion."

Most conservatives here just ignore this sort of post, because they are well aware of the leftist agitators (probably paid by ACORN) posting here and urging each other on to sound more and more violent – just trying to make conservatives look like “rightwing extremeists” so more paid tools, as yourself, can come along and make the point that conservatives do indeed need to be termed “rightwing extremeists.”

You're busted.

right Wing Nut
I am not at all surprised by janet Hitler's report. It go's hand in hand with everything else up to this point.
For all intents and purposes the patriot act, makes the bill of rights null & void.
Operation garden plot; gives both FEMA & the military the green light to use lethal force against American people who protest to much. { just read the dang thing }
Fema, the state of MO. & VA. state that indicators for " domestic terrorist " are people who KNOW their property rights, carry camcorders or other recording device's, who wear the American flag or display it, who have bumper stickers of same or of the constitutional,libertarian, party, who support people like Ron Paul, the constitution, freedom, pro life. the list go's on..

Gayle
DO try to follow the actual data instead of teh dat you would like to see. At this point, only 24% of Americans disapprove of Obama.

I know you would hope there is a backlash, but thus far there isn't one.

Demographically you are wrong. On almost every key issue, young voters reject the uber conservatism of the current conservative movement. From gay marraige to environmental issues to the role of government, the conservative view is held by fewer and fewer voters.

In terms of reproduction, the most prolific group is Hispanic families, and they tend to vote Democrat.

Singing a different tune

I'd like to take janet napolitano and drop her off in the barrio of East LA or the ghetto of East St. Louis.

I'll bet she'd be wishing she was surrounded by a few gun toting rightwing terrorist nutjobs.

Case in Point
Right here on townhall today there's an article by Linda Chavez citing statistics showing that immigrants are not as dangerous and not as much a drain on society as popularly believed and that, in fact, they have strong values of family, work, education, and citizenship. Then follows a thread of posts denying that the figures Chavez cites are true and substituting posters' prejudices as "facts".

But I call your attention to one post in particular by a guy named Joe de Oppresso Liber. He calls for land-mines and machine guns along the border, the resulting dead bodies to be nailed to stakes as an example to others. He also calls for conquering and annexing Canada, Mexico, and Central America and burning down the house of the Mexican head of state. And, friends, I guarantee you that if you and I have a toothbrush, Mr Joe de Oppresso has a gun, if not an entire arsenal.

In other words, our Joe is advocating murder, suspension of due process of law, and invasion and the violent and forcible annexation of our sovereign nation neighbors. That kind of talk is why right-wingers are increasingly seen as dangerous extremists, people who wish (or even plan) to execute the "law" by executing people.

A typical tough-guy post to townhall says something like "I am locked & loaded and ready for them. It's time for Americans to rise up." This is not about dissent: march all day and all night, and we will defend you forever. It's when you are so eager to kill people who disagrees with you (or people who are different from you) that we find you dangerous. What is the point of bragging about your guns and arsenals unless it is to scare people and make them afraid of you? So, now you have scared people. Why is that a surprise?

Gayle – “Liberals have what, 0.8
children per family (they keep aborting them), while conservative families are much larger. I for one have 7 children.”

God bless you for rearing 7 beautiful children to love America. Please keep them out of public schools if you truly want them to follow your lead. Research The Call to Dunkirk - vidoe on youtube.

What you say is true. Libs are aborting their children, so are blacks. In fact, abortion was initially promoted by the collectivist liberals to decimate the black population. The Democrat Party produced the KKKers, Wallace, and fought against Civil Rights. No one seems to remember who the real “extremists” are.

Conservatives are not killing their babies, and, if left in peace and not stripped of their jobs and life savings, they could, in a generation, recoup to take back America. That is one reason why this campaign to demonize and DO AWAY WITH US is in full swing. We – God fearing Americans – have been the only deterrent to The USA being absorbed into a global government, which is Obama’s assigned task. He is moving so fast, because, if Americans quickly learn the truth, he still could possibly be impeded.

If America will heed 2 Chronicles 7:14, there is hope.

Nixon reborn
This list reminds one of the Nixon years with his "enemies" list. If you didn't agree with Nixon you were an enemy This is jut on amuch grander scale.

Right vs Left
It seems to me that DHS is screaming about Right Wing Extremists and really what they are worried about is that people are realizing just how far the libs are going. I mean this country has tilted so far to the left that the sun doesn't rise until 2 o'clock in the afternoon. I think they are araid that just maybe the folks in this country are starting to wake up to the bill of goods they were sold is going to cost a whole lot more than they were told and that the product isn't very good anyway.

John - the tool
You prove my point. Timothy McVeigh is your standard for conservatives, right? It would make just as much sense if I referred to Jeffry Dahmer or the Unibomber or ELF and ALF as liberal standards and tried to use these as stereotypes.

You’re busted.

complaints about the two party system
If a voter is looking for the Democratic or Republican party to act Constitutionally, he is verifiably STUPID! If you want a return to the government of our forefathers, you have no futher to look than several of the Third Parties. As a Libertarian, I find it appalling that people keep voting for big government.

Doug Indeap
If you want to be taken halfway seriously, don't cite the huffington post. People would believe you more if you quoted the Necronomicon.

Pamela
Nixon's looking better all the time.

Thanks Lilly
That was very nicely stated.

At this point I can predict what will happen in this thread. The rational conservatives, i.e. most conservatives, will abandon the discussion. The right wingnuts will seep in to fill the void and once again, the loony side of the conservative movement will emerge as the only voice of right.

"WE'VE ONLY JUST BEGUN"...
As the Carpenters sang a few years back, "We've only just begun"...to witness what this Obama administration is attempting to create! His "train" is still emerging from around the "curve" where we can't see all the boxcars, flatbeds and other containers, following behind the "lead engine", and holding who knows what!?

Whatever they contain, isn't going to be good for this great nation and for us as individuals!

Some (especially those on the left) were concerned about their "privacy" under the Bush administration. They were concerned about "profiling"! My, my how quickly one's perspective and opinion can seemingly change overnight! We've only "just begun" to see the invasion of our privacy and "profiling" to be conducted by this administration! Those of us on the "right" are not the dangerous ones! It's most of those in Congress (including some Republicans!), and this current administration, who pose the real threat to our nation! Begin stocking your shelves with good 'ol Lipton folks, because those of us who are genuinely concerned about the future of our wonderful nation, have only just begun! Ride swiftly Mr. Revere!!!


wow
I'm glad the left think so highly of our vets. Amazing! I think the only extremists live in the white house.

Lilly - “But I call your attention
to one post in particular by a guy named Joe de Oppresso Liber. He calls for land-mines and machine guns along the border, the resulting dead bodies to be nailed to stakes as an example to others. He also calls for conquering and annexing Canada, Mexico, and Central America and burning down the house of the Mexican head of state. And, friends, I guarantee you that if you and I have a toothbrush, Mr Joe de Oppresso has a gun, if not an entire arsenal. “

This Mr Joe de Oppresso - He is really one of yours, isn’t he? I publicly denounce him as a subversive working for the socialist liberals.


Alma
I think you are correct. An objective process for DHS would be to generate a report on left wing extremists such as the ELF or ALF, would it not? Wait. THEY DID.

McVeigh's acts were touted ON THIS SITE as being appropriate if the President were the target. Until someone challenges that, he is not my standard for conservatives: he is hte stanrd you have selected for yourselves.

You may also be correct about the unibomber, though he was also quite conservative in many ways. Yet no one I know suggests that the unibomber was anything but a crazy person. And if they did I would challenge that person.

Conservatives, on the other hand, speak wihtout challenge regarding rebellion, revolution, and secession.


ALma
You write:

"I publicly denounce him as a subversive working for the socialist liberals."

I notice that you still can't bring yourself to challenge what he says.

Don't expect an apology
for Demonizing Ronald Reagan.

The left despises Reagan and always has.

John wrote--
"McVeigh's acts were touted ON THIS SITE as being appropriate if the President were the target. Until someone challenges that, he is not my standard for conservatives: he is hte stanrd you have selected for yourselves."

Was that by someone posting on a board, or an actual columnist? I ask because, as I'm sure you can see, opinions on a discussion board can vary widely, and on poster's opinion "doth not a consensus make" . . . welcome to the world wide web . . .

Blarn (ey)
The comments came from a poster, not from a columnist. My point was not that most conservatives would agree. In fact, I specifically indicated they would not. My point was that no conservatives challenged the poster.

Failing to speak when one of your compatriots declares that assassinating a President would be a heroic act opens one up to charges of tacit agreement.

I recall Peggy Noonan, a Reagan speech writer, pointing out that she was appalled at the kind of things she heard Republicans say that went unchallenged.





Joe de Opresso
. . . is wrong about the minefields, invasions and so forth. I doubt he is serious, and he certainly doesn't represent anybody I know. This doesn't change the seriousness of the border situation with crime, illegal immigration, and habitat destruction, to name a few of the myriad problems that exist because we won't control our border. As a person increasingly affected by border crime, I will say that the government must settle it or the people will.

John - how idiotic - Alma is right
You said, "I notice that you still can't bring yourself to challenge what he says."

I exect she has more sense and wisdom than to leave fodder for you to chew ruminate over.

Proverbs 26:4: Answer not a fool according to his folly.

Well, lets see...
Christians- always setting off IED's and terrorizing people. Jews- always prespared to attack the weak and innocent and subjegate women and children. Hindu's- always ready to attack population centers of innocents. Buddhists- always ready to demand adherance to their beliefs by terror. Conservatives- yea- those TEA parties- did you see how unruly those cretans were- I mean the police had to be on high alert. Anti-abortionists (with the exception of those FEW who have bombed a clinic)-Yea- they are always forcing people into having unwanted children. AND of COURSE-returning veterans all hopped up on hatred and ready to attack and bomb and rape and pillage. Have I got it about right? Now that I know who the enemies are I can be prepared. Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, Hamas and Hezbollah and Syria and countless others including the misunderstood leader of North Korea if old Bushie hadn't called them names- I mean they aren't responsible for their actions- they wouldn't even have done any of that if HE hadn't been so mean. But now we have Messiah in office and I await the flowering of love and cumbaya and all the wonderful singing of the birdies and well you get my drift- and now that we have found the true enemies- well I AM WAITING!

John
Fair enough--honestly, when I see something posted like that, I don't really see the point in even responding to it. Semi-intelligent discourse isn't going to come of any sort of condemnation, so I find it best to ignore. Perhaps more people should "admonish" when violence is preached on the threads, but I also realize that a virtual "Townhall" has to have room for opinions of all stripes . . . it's often hard for me to control myself and not respond to a couple of posters in particular who call for the right to vote to be taken away from people with religious beliefs, or that people who teach a religious viewpoint to their children are guilty of child abuse.

Silence doesn't always mean approval--sometimes, it may mean embarrasment for the person doing the rabble-rousing.


They make us all "seem bad"
My black friend called crying and apologizing because 2 blacks and a Hispanic had attacked and robbed a white man and brutally beaten him to death. This man was well respected by everyone and the whole community was grieving.

She was not related to them, but she asked, “Wy do they do these horrible things? Every time I turn on the news there is something like this. And then everyone complains that they are watched by security guards everywhere. Don’t they know they are making us all seem bad?

I don’t know for sure that the vitriolic posters on TH are liberal plants, but it seems they ARE trying to make us all seem bad.

Blarney and Pray
"Let me try to draw this together."

You really need to be patronized, talked down to, huh?

That/s what O did when the MSM (all three major nets local newscasts) should have been reporting on the Tea Parties and letting attendees or local hosts expound on their reasons for being there, They aired very brief shots of part of the crowd and then flashed O on the screen saying what amounted to: dear, dear children, I know you are upset, but it is going to take your great benefactor a little while to sort things out, and I promise you, next year tax day will be different. It will be easier.

And I wonder, easier for whom? I have not seen anything that should convince Americans that O has any good thing in store for our country.

John - PA
Any rational person knows that the DHS report does not mean anything close to what this and dozens of other articles claims it means. John

-----------------

I disagree, I think this article is spot on.

John, name me a recent pro-conservative, pro-America documentary from Hollywood?

I don't bother with movies much these days, they are all about liberal ideology. And the daily bash of America and Americans who do not comply with their ideology. Look at Olberman and Garofalo -- Tea parties are all about racism to them. What utter BS. Couldn't be about policy, now could it? Noooo that wouldn't fit in their twisted little minds.

The government hangs with Hollywood - no wonder Napalitano feels comfortable with that report.

We need more Tea Parties, plan for July 4th!

John
You make some good points about the threads, but I have to disagree on the DHS report.

So many are taking umbrage to this report because they see themselves in it. Why then did DHS apologize to Vets because of the wording?

I have a 14 yr. old son who's the most devoutly religious (I don't go to church, but I drive him on Sunday, receiving a pretty stout devotional along the way as to why I should attend), gentle and intelligent soul I've ever met. When he was looking online at stories about the DHS report, he noticed that anti-abortion proponents "might be" security threats. He saw himself in that description, and asked me (rather innocently), "why would they (the State)see being against abortion as bad . . . isn't that a good thing?" I was embarrassed to tell him that the adults of this world are doing our best to hand him a world where evil is good and good is evil.

John - PA
An objective process for DHS would be to generate a report on left wing extremists such as the ELF or ALF, would it not? Wait. THEY DID. John

Difference is they had groups to be legitimately concerned about, this report admits they were speculating and had no groups to name.


Joel-De Oppresso Liber, Location: NV
You are a false flag. You are using your statements to put words into our mouths.



Lisa, Reply # 34
Seriously, you don't think the "left" is guilty of these very same things??? Go look at the comments in a liberal blog. Watch MSNBC news. I'm not old, but I'm old enough to have parents who taught me about people who live in glass houses...
-------------------------------------------------------
While conservatives may think the government is focusing unfairly on them, the DHS is aware that extremism exists on both sides of the spectrum. Which is why they released a report on Leftwing Extremism earlier this year.

http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/leftwing.pdf

Obama Stealth Gun Control HR45
HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of 2009 Please send this to everybody on your list...

Very Important for you to be aware of a new bill HR 45 introduced into the House. This is the Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sale Act of 2009. I just learned yesterday about this on the Peter Boyles radio program. Even gun shop owners didn't know about this because it is flying under the radar. To find out about this - go to any government website and type in HR 45 or Google HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of 2009. You will get all the information. Basically this would make it illegal to own a firearm - any rifle with a clip or ANY pistol unless:

.It is registered
. You are fingerprinted
. You supply a current Driver's License
. You supply your Social Security #
. You will submit to a physical & mental evaluation at any time of their choosing
. Each update - change or ownership through private or public sale must be reported and costs $25- Failure to do so you automatically lose the right to own a firearm and are subject up to a year in jail.

There is a child provision clause on page 16 section 305 stating a child-access provision. Gun must be locked and inaccessible to any child under 18.

The Government would have the right to come and inspect that you are storing your gun safely away from accessibility to children and fine is punishable for up to 5 yrs. in prison. If you think this is a joke - go to the website and take your pick of many options to read this.
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/text


There is no such thing
as conservative extremists. Conservatism respects individual freedom while respecting the rule of law. That is the point of the Constitution. That is why that document is so important and the basis of the conservative movement.

Conservatives ARE the moderates.

thankyouverymuch
John -

In the past few years I have been told I am not a real conservative because I am critical of Republican hysteria of which this article is a case in point. The recent Tea Party falls into the same category not because I do not support most of the ideas but because the same players who have been suspiciously silent for the past 8 years are suddenly concerned about the power of the federal government. In my view, conservative principles need to be defended regardless of the party in power and today's Republicans have lost all credibility because they clearly say one thing and then do another once they are in power.

ALERT! Stealth Obama Gun Control
HR45 was just introduced in the House and is going to have far reaching effect on your ability to own or even keep your firearms. Please visit my blog dfor details as the robot censor keeps preventing the post. Please visit NOW!:
http://spinnada.blogspot.com/

Ridiculous
This is how we treat our brave soldiers? We hamstring them in battle and bring them up on murder charges for killing the enemy. Then when they come home after serving their country, they are suspiciously regarded as potential enemies of the state. What the heck has become of our country!?

Jo to John - DHS and ELF and ALF
Right on target, Jo.

Bravo

Lamafobe - I felt the same way when they swift-boated John Kerry. I did not like the mans' politics but to wear band aids to the convention and cast dispersions upon a decorated veteran made me sick.

Head To The Fort!
OhNo - Oh no, they are going to take my guns! Or, could this be another hysterical Republican rant that has no substance to it? Probably. The party is very good raising blood pressures.

Joel-De Oppresso Liber - Alma
"Nope,I am not one of the enemy. If you came on TH often enough to read all of my posts, you would know that.

You are welcome to denounce me, I care not. I care only for the truth, not what is popular."


I am afraid that you care not for many things. Such as making conserative writers look like rabid beasts. –Since you claim to be one of the freedom loving conservatives, then all are deemed guilty of approving your views by appearing on the same page as you. Liberal thinking you know.

Apologize for the damage you have done, and stick to the truth.

Lightning Fast - real slow
"Head To The Fort!
OhNo - Oh no, they are going to take my guns! Or, could this be another hysterical Republican rant that has no substance to it? Probably. The party is very good raising blood pressures."

If you have read this bil and still say the same, you must hate the Constitution and your fellow Americans.

Joe
I live on the border in a town that is half Mexican. Maybe if you did you'd have some sort of realistic solution to a very complicated problem.

Report for non-white RW extremists?
What an insult to anyone who espouses any one or all of the concerns referenced in this report (term used loosely). One other angle I observed is that this "assessment" continues to affirm my belief that the liberal elite construes African Americans and Hispanics (and any other non-white racial/ethnic group) to be completely stupid and unable to see through the haze. Why is the conservative movement (whether fiscal, social or both) painted as a "white" movement by the LE? I am a Hispanic woman married to an African American man and all of the concerns cited in this joke of a report are ones we share. They would have the rest of the world believe that conservatives are racist and even white supremacists. However, we have many friends that share our race/ethnicity as well as these very same concerns; we consider ourselves very much social and fiscal conservatives. So where is the separate report for folks like us and Sowell, Blackwell, Malkin, etc - the RW extremists who are non-white? Absolutely insulting! The organizers and attendees of the tea parties as well as those of us who have expressed outrage over this document clearly reflect that we cannot be neatly packed into racial categories or income brackets as much as they need it to continue to spew this propraganda.

2_chronicles 7 v.14
"...if my people, who are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."

"Not by might, not by power, but by my Spirit, says the Lord."

Our prayers brought down the Soviet Union.
They will also bring down this present regime.

Crtitcal Thinking Skills
Alma- I do not hate anyone; even people that I disagree with. Because I do not hyperventilate over a gun bill introduced in congress doesn't mean I hate my country. The two ideas have nothing in common with each other. It's like saying because I like doing lawn work then I must hate illegal-immigrants. Making wrong conclusions is what political propaganda is all about.

One idea that does follow from HR45 is that it is one of many that we've had over the years that has no chance in passing. There are a number of bills working their way through congress that are much more threatening but bills like HR45 distract from what is really going on.

Proud to be A Right-Wing Extremist
If opposing our new Nazi president's Nazi agenda makes me a right-wing extremist then I'll wear that label with pride. First, we were called racists for opposing him. That's another label I will wear with pride. Now. we're right-wing extremists. Three cheers for all right-wing extremists!!

No one should really be surprised at being labeled an extremist. All despots give their opposition such labels. Herr Obama is a desot and a would-be dictator. He believes that he was elected dictator not president and therefore has tje right to say and do whatever he desires. No one has the right to oppose him. He has turned the Department of Homeland Security, created by George W. Bush to protect us from terrorist attacks, into his private Gestapo to be used against us! We, the American people are now more dangerous than the Muslim extremists who want to destroy our country. Maybe, that's because Obama is on their side.

One last thing. If Afghanistan and Iraq war veterans are a danger to this country and are now labeled terrorists, what about Vietnam veterans like myself. Are we included in that? We're probably just as, if not more, dangerous than our fellow vets who served in Iraq and Afghanistan. Go hide under your beds Obama regime. And watch out of the boogey man as well.

It's time for another American Revolution!!

Good summarily Diana
Why on earth did Bush and the Republicans go along with the creation of a department of Homeland Security? We could have weeded out the dead wood in the CIA and the FBI after 9/11 and avoided the political bs and ineffectiveness that this report represents. We would be more effective in meeting real threats had we not gone here to begin with.

While DHS goes looking @ bumper-stickers
...searching for their next blonde-haired, blue-eyed example of 'Domestic Terrorism'...

the enemy is already INSIDE the gate.

http://www.e3gazette.com/2009/04/domestic-extremists-that-d hs-isnt.html

- MuscleDaddy

Lightning slow - you've put on your cap
Now Start Using Those Crtitcal Thinking Skills
You said: "Alma- I do not hate anyone; even people that I disagree with. Because I do not hyperventilate over a gun bill introduced in congress doesn't mean I hate my country. The two ideas have nothing in common with each other. It's like saying because I like doing lawn work then I must hate illegal-immigrants. Making wrong conclusions is what political propaganda is all about.

One idea that does follow from HR45 is that it is one of many that we've had over the years that has no chance in passing. There are a number of bills working their way through congress that are much more threatening but bills like HR45 distract from what is really going on."

I take that to mean you still haven't read the bill. But I am so glad to know that you will stop it and thet we have nothing to worry about. BTW I don't own a gun, but I support the Constitution and rights of all those who choose to own them.

I am aware of many other bills that have not been stopped and are a piece of the whole fabric to stifle any opposing viewpoints and take away citiaens' rights. Have you studied the GIVE Act? Do you think you will stop HR 1444? If not, you may be part of the problem, not the cure.

Joel-De Oppresso Liber, Location: NV
You may be true. I can't read your motivations.

But if we characterize our positions with a call to arms, we are giving Napolitano and Obama the opportunity to attack us with the justification of sedition. We must choose peaceful and lawful tactics to throw these people out of office.

That is, unless you really want to give them a green light for the creation of an American gulag archipelago.

Perhaps your are right, but let's not let Obama choose the conditions of the contest.


Denmark, WW2
The SS ordered occupied Denmark to make every Jew in the country wear a yellow star of David. The King of Denmark road out that morning wearing a Star of David. By the end of the day, every single Dane was wearing the star, Jewish or not.

I see this labeling by the Obama administration backfiring on him like it did to the Third Reich.

Joel-De Oppresso Liber, Location: NV
Joel, did I say JUST pray? No. But God's intervention is essential in all these matters.

It's clear what this administration is trying to do. They are textbook Marxists, flooding the airwaves with profane accusations and calling the opposition racists. My son attends a mostly black private school. I haven't got a racist bone in my body.

What they are doing is incrementally imposing totalitarian rule. Now the question of how to stop this plan is our most pressing subject.

(back to prayer) I am praying that, among other things, the good people in our law enforcement and military are willing and ready to resist all anti-constitutional orders from the "commander in chief." Particularly, I want assurance they will prevent the use of military and police power against the (probably more than) 50% percent of American voters who voted against Obama.

Will they choose the honorable direction when their careers are on the line? I don't know, but I am praying.





elf terrorists
I wonder if the earth liberation kooks are still on some type of terrorist list.
Seems these terrorists who have attacked and destroyed car dealerships, building developments, ski resorts and other things are still under pursuit for their breaking the law.

Oh wait my bad, under the socialism of the messiah there is no such creature as a leftist terrorist.

And with admitted socialist carol browner heading up the epa the eco terrorists are probably getting their marching orders directly from the messiah's administration.

Afterall the new mantra of the dims under flap ears, is no crisis should be missed , even if the dims and their minions have to create them.

Joel
Slip of the typing, Joel. Sorry. I don't live in Phoenix. I live very near the border, like I said. And if you did, you'd have to be more realistic in what we did.

Joel
There's a clear line between being willing to defend yourself against a tyrannical government and advocating the overthrow of one that is merely annoying or showing dangerous tendencies. I believe you cross that line. It is especially in troubling times that we have to be very clear in our loyalty to the United States government as well as the Constitution. Only if the Government both clearly and violently violates the Constitution is there any right and obligation to resist with violence. So far they have only made vague rhetorical gestures in that direction. We cannot give them the excuse to act in a tyrannical way. Since Ruby Ridge and Waco, there have been no more government atrocities. The terrible impression those two events made have made them (you'll excuse the pun) gun shy. Let's keep them that way. So far, you're not helping.

Lightning - Read those bills?
HR 1388 GIVE Act later Senate’s Edward Kennedy Serve America Act

HR 1388
Title VI of the bill originally contained a provision – Sec. 6401 -- providing for the creation of a commission to investigate “Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the National and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds.”

I read this and alerted my friends, then they had to strip this out to get it passed. However, it puts in place all the machinery necessary to carry out massive mandatory service requirements.
But, not to worry: they put the same language in HR1444 setting up a Commission to study…then they strip that out and change the “purpose of the bill” language adding “as introduced.” Which means this could sit on the shelf for two years and be brought out at a moment’s noticed and the mandatory stuff be added and the bill passed “as introduced” and we are slaves.

Libs will say "No big desl. Just two years of our children/youths lives between the ages of 18-26. They'll just be trained for civil emergencies like....
trained to spy on families, neighbors, report environmental crimes, confiscate guns....?


One More Time
Alma - You are reading a lot into HR-1388. My point is that the infrastructure is already in place and being used to gradually strip away our constitutional rights. After less than 4 months we have already seen HSC tip it's hat to conservatives. That is what has gotten my attention. The Patriot Act (already the law of the land) gives this administration unlimited power to jail, without a trial and for an unlimited period of time, people who the president deems a threat. They don't need any new laws, we already have them on the books and that's what I am worried about.

I find it odd.
If Bush was such a violator of our civil liberties, then why hasn't Obama and the Dem congress repealed the Patrio Act?

Robert to Joel
No quote - you know what you wrote.

Robert, you need a reality check. (As you and Joel know) I agree with your premise that we should not engage in inflammatory or rabidly radical speech, but to say that government is to be trusted because “Since Ruby Ridge and Waco, there have been no more government atrocities” is to stick your head in the sand like an ostrich. Obama and Napolitano make Clinton and Reno look like schoolchildren playing cops and robbers. (In my day, of course, you can’t play that now.) Don’t lean so far that you start trying to appease political terrorists to avoid being their target - you are probably already on the list, huh?

HSD is as off its rocker as O is
over the left coast.

For a gov't to disrespect its veterans and compare them to terrorists is beyond the wildesr drea,s of the insance.

Cons. here denigrate the Rep. Party, but it is the only neans of addressing this monster that has taken over DC. Splinter groups and third parties just keep the Dems. in power.

They have since the 30s wrecked banking, created the rubble of the inner cities, sunk black communities in drugs and illegitimacy and yet call themselves champions of freedom and castigate the party of Lincoln.

Call Cong. Write them. March in tea parties. Go on campaigns and reg. real people and not the dead and invisible of ACORN and take back pols. in the country.

So ridiculous
Our federal govt is out of control. What kind of amateurs would allow this to see the light of day?

Ultimately what this is all about is a better way of doing things that our govt has been ignoring for some time.

I read a great blog on this today! You guys gotta check it out.

http://rjmoeller.com

lightning - 1 more time - read the bills
Study those bills
Alma - You are reading a lot into HR-1388. My point is that the infrastructure is already in place and being used to gradually strip away our constitutional rights. After less than 4 months we have already seen HSC tip it's hat to conservatives. That is what has gotten my attention. The Patriot Act (already the law of the land) gives this administration unlimited power to jail, without a trial and for an unlimited period of time, people who the president deems a threat. They don't need any new laws, we already have them on the books and that's what I am worried about.

L_F One More Time – Study those bills and you won’t sound so, well, I hate say, so ignorant or foolishly trusting? O and the Fascists want us think that nothing is getting worse, we have plenty of time. For what? To elect another bunch of *** that will keep the heat gradually turned up until the water comes to a boil and we find we can’t get out of the pot?

This is not about taking individuals to jail. This is about Hitlerian fascism and a nstion of people with NO rights. Study the bills. And check out Michelle Bachman's slip of the lip that exposed most of these volunteerism stuff and caused them to change so much of it. A Democrat I am proud of..

Joel-De Oppresso Liber, Location: NV
I have a number of family members in law enforcement and military. They are all good people, and I hope their judgement remains sound. I am not in any way willing to submit to tyranny, nor am I any kind of pacifist.

However, now is a time for all peaceful and lawful means. Period.

Any crazy talk erodes all peaceful outcomes for both sides of this political disagreement.

Joel-De Oppresso Liber, Location: NV
My apologies to you, too. I was wrong. We are on the same side. If not, you would have been answering my challenges with the usual leftist profanity.


Baradiel - wonderful posts
Baradiel: I find it odd.
If Bush was such a violator of our civil liberties, then why hasn't Obama and the Dem congress repealed the Patrio Act?

ME: Hmm...great question, and if CIA interrogation tactics were so horrible uner Bush, why does Obama say don't change a thing now?

Denmark, WW2
The SS ordered occupied Denmark to make every Jew in the country wear a yellow star of David. The King of Denmark road out that morning wearing a Star of David. By the end of the day, every single Dane was wearing the star, Jewish or not.

I see this labeling by the Obama administration backfiring on him like it did to the Third Reich.

ME: Let us pray that will happen. I have some ideas...for helpful, peaceful, non-violent agression. Working on it.

There is no such thing
as conservative extremists. Conservatism respects individual freedom while respecting the rule of law. That is the point of the Constitution. That is why that document is so important and the basis of the conservative movement.

Conservatives ARE the moderates.

ME: Absolutely. I know that thought has been trying to surface, thanks for putting it into words.

ME:
Baradiel - wonderful posts
I’ve wanted to say that all day, but I was compelled to address some issues.

Joel-De Oppresso Liber -
I appreciate your post. Now I know you are thinking about how your writing is perceived by others. And that matters.

I believe you do love America and hate what it is becoming at the hands of the “progressive democrats” really socialists/fascists. We all feel angry about this sellout of America. We fear for our childrens’ future. But I find peace in my relationship to Christ and in the fact that when I pray, God opens the doors wide for me to stand before Him and plead my cause. May all the children of God pray for one another. Blessings.

FYI
As to the claims that 1. the Bush admin ordered a report be done and 2. that a similar report was done for Left-Wing Extremists, let me say this.

1. He may have, but the Right Wing report came out April 7, 2009, almost 3 months after Bush left office and it clearly states that part of the concern is the New President and how his policies are perceived.

2. Peter Roff of U.S. News and World Report (and others) have looked at both reports and you can read his piece on line. He clearly sets forth how the Left Wing piece, which came out January 9, 2009, contains way more actual facts to support its conclusions. Not as many as an older report from early 2001, but certainly more than the Right Wing report.

As an attorney, I can tell you that the Right Wing report would not hold up in a court of law. It is conclusory at best. And fear-mongering at its worst.

How to Fight Back...

Michael Savage & Thomas More Law Center
Sue Janet Napolitano!

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=95244

Why isn't anyone else reporting this?



doug the sphinx
dougie just spams any site that supports the military against the nuts in homeland suckcurity by posting the exact same message.
i am a veteran. i am insulted. do not tell people what we think you sphincter.

adios,
ab
lancaster, prop8ifornia
push 1 for english you gringo dummies
phubai 1-69 31m

(ok ok i will attend reeducation rehab classes)

got Comprehensive Immigration Reform?
coming to a country near you soon.
p.s.
they will shove 70 million illegal aliens into new citizen voters so that the menshiviks never loose power in d.c.

boxcars
so, as a patriotic american where do i turn myself in?
i will not plea bargain.
i will admit to several charges.
count 1:
i am against abortion.
count 2:
i am against illegal immigration.
count 3:
i am against gay marriage.
count 4:
i am against big government.
count 5:
i own a pistol, shotgun, rifle.
count 6:
i am a vietnam veteran familiar with weapons, i.e. m14, m16, m79, m49, concussion and phos. grenades.

can i choose my boxcar?

adios
ab
lancaster, prop8ifornia
push 1 for english you gringo dummies

got Comprehensive Immigration Reform Bill?

Where is the Conservative Leadership?
This should have been a gift for the Republicans, something concrete for them to show how far this administration is willing to go for political power. Instead the only voice speaking out is Bennie Thompson!

As bad as the Democrats are, the Republicans are not much, if any, better.

Frightening

What is frightening about this is that a "president" puts puts far-left types in powerful places and no one can or will stop him. Patty hearst with a AK-47 could be the head of some agency next week.

And you Catholics (pro-life extremist) and young veterans who voted for this mess, I've a question:

ARE YOU HAPPY NOW ?!!!!!!!

The Second defends the rest

We knew this was coming!
"Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you,persecute you,and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad,because great is your reward in heaven,for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you." Matthew 5:10-12

Problem is this...
THe country is being run by angry fringe types...Barney Frank-angry, hateful gay man...Nancy Pelosi-angry, hateful, feminist who needs power more than anything else..Barak Obama-hateful black man who spent his life trying to be 'equal' to the whites and now that he has achieved it, he has no idea what to do with it....and Finally, but not leastly-Janet Napolitano....a lesbian full of hate, guessing she is not happy with her private life.
These people have an agenda...it is not about keeping this country safe...it is not about holding up the working man...IT IS ABOUT THEM AND THE AGENDA THEY HAVE HELD SINCE THEY WERE DIAPER WEARING HIPPIES OF THE 70's....
This is about hate....and not about anything else.

It makes Nixon's enemies list...
Pale by comparison.

Each and every American, of whatever political view, should be chilled to the bone by this despicable over-reaching smear of conservatives, our military, and people of faith who earnestly oppose our federal drive to make abortion a tax-subsidized right that cannot be opposed.

I think it makes very clear how much respect the Obama Administration has for those in opposition to it, and its real capacity for "bi-partisanship".


Years invested
by the Marxist - judicial activism, social-engineering our children, creating a nanny state - The greatest threat to their liberal utopia, now that are on the verge of destroying the America they hate, IS the "Right Wing." They are about to win it all, and they are scared to death that the "Right" will rise up and ruin it all for them.

I wonder.....
There are many pro gun, pro life, patriotic democrats in America. I wonder how they feel now being thrown under the bus by the liberal fascist in Washington and are now considered a threat and part of the right wing.

John - PA
DO try to follow the actual data instead of teh dat you would like to see. At this point, only 24% of Americans disapprove of Obama. John to Gayle

====================================

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/scoreboards/by_the_numbers2 /by_the_numbers

Obama by the numbers shows that most people side with the conservative "Tea party" view, such as:


56% rate the economy poor.
58% say he's more partisan
51% say tax increases hurt the economy
63% say tax cuts help the economy
57% say US on the wrong track
68% say spending will go up
68% say he politically liberal.
74% say he's not doing enough to secure the borders.
35% approve of Obama
32% disprove of Obama

etc...

No wonder the Tea Parties are bi-partisan and so successful!

We're in good company

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were right-wing extremists...

Race Card: Get ready for the whole deck
The closer we get to exposing D.C. for the elitist profiteers they are and actually waking the populous up to their Marxist ideals, the more often they’re going to play the race card.

The “extremist” label is only a precursor. When it finally comes down to the people actually having to FIGHT to preserve constitutional capitalism, our complicit media will have framed it as racists vs. diversity.

Those of us who wish to return to our foundational liberties are going to be the BAD GUYS until we win. Then our children will recognize us for the heroes to democracy that we are.

Get used to being put down by the mainstream media, colleges as a whole, and the bulk of the politicians (including Republicans). We’ve proven we can be a threat, so marginalization will be the order of the day. We’re not freedom fighters; we’re haters. That’s how this will play out in the papers and on TV.

They have defined the "Enemy"
And it is us.Members of congress, those deep thinkers, have already laid the groundwork for roundups of anyone who dares to speak out against this administration. The CBC contributes Hastings HR-645 which will build the re-education compounds. Rush gives us HR-45 which will provide the mechanism to take our weapons, and our local idiot, Kucinich gives us HR-808 which would provide the 'civilian security force' to gather us in. I suppose it would be led by Farrakhans Militia. I've noted some folks think HR-45 can't happen, and I'm sure if you take the time to read these bills you would agree that in a rational,bi-partisan congress which operated for the good of the country it couldn't. But, we live in a time where there is no rationality, only personal interest. It would take little or no effort for the sponsers of these bills to bury them in another massive piece of garbage like the bailouts, which no one would read, which would pass with Democratic votes only, and which would be law which once passed is hard to undo. The TARP and Recovery bills spring to mind. Be alert. Obviously I am a right wing radical, and proud of it.

AND IT BEGINS!
The DHS report is nothing but a preemptive hit piece, the left has always feared the military, and this is just more proof.

This insulting report is no different than a large corporate law firm attacking the character, of a justified whistle blower, in order to paint them as the disgruntled crazy employee.

I Am An Extremist
I am white.

I have guns.

I fish.

I have put animals out of their misery.

I am a Constitutionalist.

I am fiscally-conservative.

I wear FMPs, which can kill a man in an instant.

I am a Christian, who was married to a Jew.

Have I missed anything?

Oh, yeah! I, jokingly, thought about purchasing 2,000 pounds of fertilizer, renting a U-Haul, phoning in a call to evacuate the building while wearing Chanel, and driving the "bomb" down to Harrah's Casino since it steals from those on welfare, the working poor, the addicted and those that have retired.

DHS: Sign me up, but you might want to wait until I finish my pro bono legal work for the disenfranchised.

Double Ditto Baby!!
The only thing left for me to say regarding this "Report"?: I'm both proud and happy to be in such good company!

DHS report is not what some here think

The DHS report does not say, as some seem to suppose, that everyone who has certain political views is, by virtue of that alone, a rightwing extremist. Nor does it say that all rightwing extremists are violent terrorists. It merely warns that rightwing extremism may drive a few people to engage in violence or terrorism. Duh! There's no disputing that possibility, since it has already occasionally happened.

Rightwingers feeling unfairly picked on by DHS may take heart from the fact that DHS has already has already issued a similar report about leftwingers, replete with warnings of the risk of cyber attacks, bombings, and arson by "leftwing extremists," including "animal rights extremists" and "environmental extremists." See http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Leftwing_Extremist_Thr eat.pdf

Doug Indeap Location: CA
You must be the dumbest man in America

Who REALLY GIVES A Rat's A$$??
These recent/not so recent DHS reports are of NO Concern to me because I see this as another ploy to run up another smokescreen to detract from the REAL Depredations being implemented by this bunch of LOONIES!!
I, like Denise and most others, own ALL KINDS of *Guns* and if I could buy Fully Auto Weapons, I would just for the H(LL of it..All I know for sure is I'm SICKENED by the Lack of Knowledge exhibited by these ROOKIES.. CHEERS

The Agenda
This attack on conservatives is all part of a plan. Are those FEMA camps real after all? Law enforcement people say so. They also say that this DHS directive is in local hands and being used. I was told that state and local police have become “spies” – actually the term used was secret. Do you know a law enforcement officer at state or local level? Ask them.

Obama knows he has to work fast before the citizens understand the whole agenda he is working to put in place. Clinton by Exec Order established the President’s Council on Sustainable Development. Al Gore became the propaganda machine and, if he had been elected, and 9-11 had not happened, he would have been doing exactly what Obama and his regime are rushing to accomplish today. It is critical that all of you, especially those who are moderates or left of center, watch this and do your own research.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5udza_agenda-21_news

I tried to raise awaremess about Agenda 21 in the 90s, but people just couldn’t see it, After you watch this, go to my blog and leave a message if you like. But please do your research before you just lash out. I promise that if you research this you will be glad you took the time.

motherhood
The report omitted motherhood and apple pie as a threat!

DHS report forgot...
...to include PMS and post pardon(sic) females.

Department of Stupid
Also forgot, ignored, allowed, encouraged, supports these extremists and religious fanatics.

They are not mentioned on any report from DHS, or even on their web page as the real danger these kooks are
======================


Actual video of terrorist cells training to kill on American soil. They have recruiting bases on university campuses, and some of their training camps in America are as large as 300 acres.

There are over 35 terrorist compounds in our nation. This is about the spread of homegrown terrorists in our backyard. The group, Muslims of America, have established 35 compounds in the U.S


http://faultlineusa.blogspot.com/2009/03/video-35-islamic-t errorist-training.html


Wake up people, the DHS has become a political tool of the conspiracy nuts and fanatics themselves.

Turn off the TV's
And dig up the information the so called media is intentionally hiding from all of us, if it were possible.

It is not possible but for the people who trust TV news to give you the right info and what is important.

4US, exactly right about Agenda 21.
Its also why they will not stop illegal immigration

Wrong, Talent Scout!!
It's Dug Sheep Dip and he's baack.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!
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