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Tuesday, May 12, 2009
Dennis Prager :: Townhall.com Columnist
Socialism and Secularism Suck Vitality Out of Society
by Dennis Prager
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Outside of politics, sports, and popular entertainment, how many living Germans, or French, or Austrians, or even Brits can you name?

Even well-informed people who love art and literature and who follow developments in science and medicine would be hard pressed to come up with many, more often any, names. In terms of greatness in literature, art, music, the sciences, philosophy, and medical breakthroughs, Europe has virtually fallen off the radar screen.

This is particularly meaningful given how different the answer would have been had you asked anyone the same question between just 80 and 120 years ago -- and certainly before that. A plethora of world-renowned names would have flowed.

Obvious examples would include (in alphabetical order): Brecht, Buber, Cezanne, Chekhov, Curie, Debussy, Eiffel, Einstein, Freud, Hesse, Kafka, Mahler, Mann, Marconi, Pasteur, Porsche, Proust, Somerset Maugham, Strauss, Stravinsky, Tolstoy, Zeppelin, Zola.

Not to mention the European immortals who lived within the century before them: Mozart, Beethoven, Dostoevsky, Darwin, Kierkegaard, Manet, Monet, Hugo and Van Gogh, to name only a few.

What has happened?

What has happened is that Europe, with a few exceptions, has lost its creativity, intellectual excitement, industrial innovation, and risk taking. Europe’s creative energy has been sapped. There are many lovely Europeans; but there aren’t many creative, dynamic, or entrepreneurial ones.

The issues that preoccupy most Europeans are overwhelmingly material ones: How many hours per week will I have to work? How much annual vacation time will I have? How many social benefits can I preserve (or increase)? How can my country avoid fighting against anyone or for anyone?

Why has this happened?

There are two reasons: secularism and socialism (aka the welfare state).

Either one alone sucks much of the life out of society. Together they are likely to be lethal.

Even if one holds that religion is false, only a dogmatic and irrational secularist can deny that it was religion in the Western world that provided the impetus or backdrop for nearly all the uniquely great art, literature, economic and even scientific advances of the West. Even the irreligious were forced to deal with religious themes -- if only in expressing rebellion against them.

Religion in the West raised all the great questions of life: Why are we here? Is there purpose to existence? Were we deliberately made? Is there something after death? Are morals objective or only a matter of personal preference? Do rights come from the state or from the Creator?

And religion gave positive responses: We are here because a benevolent God made us. There is, therefore, ultimate purpose to life. Good and evil are real. Death is not the end. Human rights are inherent since they come from God. And so on.

Secularism drains all this out of life. No one made us. Death is the end. We are no more significant than any other creatures. We are all the results of mere coincidence. Make up your own meaning (existentialism) because life has none. Good and evil are merely euphemisms for “I like” and “I dislike.”

Thus, when religion dies in a country, creativity wanes. For example, while Christian Russia was backward in many ways, it still gave the world Dostoevsky, Chekhov, Tolstoy, and Tchaikovsky. Once Christianity was suppressed, if not killed, in Russia, that country became a cultural wasteland (with a few exceptions like Shostakovich and Solzhenitsyn, the latter a devout Christian). It is true that this was largely the result of Lenin, Stalin and Communism; but even where Communism did not take over, the decline of religion in Europe meant a decline in human creativity -- except for nihilistic and/or absurd isms, which have greatly increased. As G. K. Chesterton noted at the end of the 19th century, when people stop believing in God they don’t believe in nothing, they believe in anything. One not only thinks of the violent isms: Marxism, Marxism-Leninism, Fascism, Maoism, and Nazism, but of all the non-violent isms that have become substitute religions – e.g., feminism, environmentalism, and socialism.

The state sucks out creativity and dynamism just as much as secularism does. Why do anything for yourself when the state will do it for you? Why take care of others when the state will do it for you? Why have ambition when the state is there to ensure that few or no individuals are rewarded more than others?

America has been the center of energy and creativity in almost every area of life because it has remained far more religious than any other industrialized Western democracy and because it has rejected the welfare state social model.

Which is why so many are so worried about President Barack Obama and the Democratic Party’s desire to transform -- in their apt wording -- America into a secular welfare state. The greatest engine of moral, religious, economic, scientific, and industrial dynamism is being starved of its fuel. The bigger the state, the smaller its people.

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About The Author
Dennis Prager is a radio show host, contributing columnist for Townhall.com, and author of 4 books including Happiness Is a Serious Problem: A Human Nature Repair Manual.
 
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Europe's Islamization vindicates Prager
All one has to look at with Europe to see just how true Prager speaks about the fact that socialism and secularism suck the vitality out of a society is to see the increasing Islamization of Europe - and even more remarkable, the fact that the Anglo Europeans seem to be blithely accepting their demise and the demise of their culture.

Any non-Islamic society full of people who still believe in something beyond the SELF would be HORRIFIED to watch in accepting silence, much less active accomodation, their society overrun by a belief system like Islam. Yet the Anglo Europeans seem to accept it, almost PROMOTE it, more day by day. They and their culture are dying - and they don't seem to care that they're disappearing down history's memory hole.

And if by mid-century the Europe of the last few centuries of our history books seems to be just as much a bygone relic as the Roman Empire, it should be Exhibit A as to what happens to a society - and a people - that embraces secularism and socialism.

It's probably just as well that G.K. Chesterton isn't around anymore to have to live through the fulfillment of his declaration that a people who stop believing in God won't also stop believing in NOTHING, they'll believe in ANYTHING.

France
Thought provoking points from Dennis.

1880 to 1920 +/- Paris was the place for for aspiring sculptors or painters. Philosophers went there to study the latest thinking. In addition, while the French did not invent the automobile or airplane they were the ones who developed the concepts into practical vehicles. Consider the words chassis and fuselage if you did not know that the French figured the prper place to put the major components and the contols needed to make them work at the bidding of the driver/pilot.

The list of French leaders of the era is nearly endless.

I satisfied myself that the loss of leadership coincided with the loss of a generation of creative young men in WWI. Dennis tells a different story worth thinking about.

Is Prager serious?
Famous brits/UKers:

the Rolling Stones

Sir Anthony Hopkins

Richard Dawkins

Stephen Hawking

J.K. Rowling

Coldplay (no, Dennis, I'm quite sure you've never heard of these guys)

David Beckham

Vanessa Redgrave

David Hockney

John Maynard Keynes

David Lean

the Beatles

Peter Sellers

Eric Clapton

Margaret Thatcher

Simon Cowell

Aldous Huxley

George Orwell



Oh, THIS IS FREAKING RIDICULOUS!

There are TONS of vibrant, innovative, creative brits -- AND I HAVEN'T EVEN GOTTEN TO THE FRENCH YET!!


This article is the result of a truly braindead mind.

ZERO STARS.

Prager is simply old and very out-of-touch.


@ Will: I need to make a correction...
You said: "Prager is simply old and very out-of-touch."

I think you mean: "Townhall is simply old and very out-of-touch."

Silly
Wow! I disagree with Prager more often than not, but generally find his viewpoints at least thoughtful. This, though, is just silliness, not worth reading, let alone discussing. Let's hope for better next time.

ignorant and parochial
With columns like this we wonder why Europeans have a stereotype view of the ignorant american. lets forget the hoity toity pompous stuff and name real products and innovations in a few fields, ok Mr. Prager:

1) Entertainment: mostly covered by previous poster, but just check your grandsons CD collection Il bet a lot more of it is British bands than a british tween would have American bands

2) Broadcasting: BBC world is so clearly higher quality in every respect than CNN International its almost a joke BBC IS the global news network, CNN is the silly sidekick and Foxnews is not taken seriously by more than a microscopic fringe outside American borders. PBS/NPR: HA HA HA HA!!!

3) News weekly: What magazine to the movers and shakers in the American business world read? THE ECONOMIST! as British as they come, there is no american business/economics/news weekly that
comes close in quality and insight. Time/newsweek is a semiliterate joke!

4) Cinema: Cannes Berlin Venice... Cant think of any american film festival of that international stature, maybe Sundance, but that is not
so well known outside American borders.

5) Technology: Ok pull out your mobile phone, NOKIA(Finland) perhaps? send a file to your grandsons computer from it wirelessly using a BLUETOOTH(Sweden) connection? Maybe, if your grandson is
clever, the operating system on that computer is LINUX(Linus Thorvar - Finland). Maybe your grandson is sitting at that computer chatting with his friend on SKYPE(Estonia)? When your grandsons computer was delivered it came in STYROFOAM(BASF-Germany)...
Linux Skype and Nokia represent entrepreneurship and innovation
at its peak, respected around the world.

6) Cars: two words: Italy, Germany

7) Fashion: again, two words: Paris, Milan

I think thats enough to make my point...




BobSimp
Prager is hung up on his self-congratulatory line that nothing good can be accomplished without religion. He is wrong. American society is more free, more entreprenurial, and perhaps more vibrant. Certainly more innovation comes from America. However, European societies are far healthier and happier.

Yahoo.com recently featured a global poll of happiness and life-satisfaction and 8 of the top 10 countries where European. America didn't crack the top 10.

European's physical health is better than Americans in virtually every catagory. And, of course, all Europeans have health insurance.

Compare social pathologies in America and Europe. Denmark has 1/6 the per capita abortion rate as America. There were 17,000 murders committed with hand guns in America in 2008. Europe's murder rate was almost negligable in comparison. America has the largest prison population in the developed world.

Alot of things are going wrong in America that are working just fine in Europe. Let's not be so quick to pronounce religion as the basis of a successful society.

Robert


The sad part is:
Posters can provide proof in comment after comment after comment against Prager's deeply flawed thesis.

Yet, he'll simply ignore all the common sense presented here, and still talk on his radio show about how Europe "has lost its creativity, intellectual excitement, industrial innovation, and risk taking. Europe’s creative energy has been sapped. There are many lovely Europeans; but there aren’t many creative, dynamic, or entrepreneurial ones."

Who's more creative? Brits --- or folks from Montana?

WELL, DENNIS
I think your posters proved your point. British cars. Italian cars. Maybe one or two German makes, built primarily by Turks offer some technological novelties, if they weren't so ugly. The Italians produce some beautiful rolling sculpture, if only they'd last more than 50,000 K. The Brits used to dominate motorcycle racing, and for awhile, even F1. Where are they now? It's been the Japanese bikes, and Italian F1 cars.

As for fashion, and rock, if that's what you think is culture, OK.

Brits?
Dear Mr. Prager: That's derogatory. Say "British."

This is silly
Standshisground - nice racist screed.

As for Praeger, how silly! The reason Americans know nothing of Europeans is that we are completely self-absorbed and our media offers little information.

If you look at history, it's easy to see that cultural developments (art, science, etc). wax and wane across time. Islamic culture peaked between 600 and 1300, Chinese culture peaked around the same time (Tang dynasty), as well as earlier during the same time as the Romans (Han Dynasty). European culture came to life during the Enlightenment and of course produced some great art and science. But this same European culture crushed many other cultures in the process.

If European culture (art and science) is now in decline (and I have my doubts), I would look toward the world wars (including the cold war) as one of the main causes. I doubt that secularism and socialism have anything to do with it.

More important, culture is more than art and science - it also involves the quality of life arising from politics and philosophy. In this respect, today's European culture is way beyond anything in its past.

What a great article...wow!
What we need right now in this country is a reverting back to the traditional American values of liberty, free markets, and private property rights. We've done a HORRENDOUS job on the conservative side of things of explaining these things to people....partly because they should be self-evident so we figure people "get it" already when they dont...party because we've gotten complacent.

Please take a minute and read this fascinating column I found on this very subject. http://robbymoeller.blogspot.com/2009/05/free-free-markets -part-i.html

Self-indulgence...
seems to be the common thread of the examples offered to refute Prager's thesis.

will
All of your examples fall into one of two categories: The past or entertainers.

The past:
Keynes
Huxley
Orwell

Everyone else was entertainers.

One exception:

Thatcher, a truly great lady who is presently derided in England and only revered here in the USA.

you should think before you type.

Love things European?
Move there, you're no loss.

West's Dying Whimper
Western culture is dying as Prager notes. Affluence in the West has created people who only are interested in obtaining as many toys as they can.

Tattoos, gay marriage, and rap music symbolize what the West is all about--back to the primitive jungle dancing around a roaring fire.

Meanwhile, Islam waits in the wings, a 13th Century religion that wants to turn the clock back and Europeans couldn't care less as long as they can have their month-long vacations in the south of France.

Europeans have surrendered their freedom for security and will eventually lose both--as will Americans.

Sic Transit Gloria.

Socialism? Maybe. Secularism? No!
Socialism removes the penalties for failure and deadens the benefits of dreaming big. Why invent or build when the government will just tax it away? If socialism had never been tried, reasonable people would argue that inventiveness and ingenuity would wan.

The same can NOT be said of secularism. In fact quite the opposite. If god exists, then what point is there in doing anything on earth? Hitchens made this point to you in person, Mr. Prager, please take it seriously. If there is no god, then we are only limited by unknown barries. If we can invent the internet, who knows what's next! There's an excitement there that is amply demonstrated by the most secular institutions in the world, science departments.

Our main institution, pt 1
This might be off-topic but I think it continues this columnist line of reasoning. As an early social institution the family unit of one man and one woman is the most frequent social structure in the world. The family unit provides the most basic unit upon which a society can founded. Giving all societies a mechanism to perpetuate themselves passing important knowledge about social norms, customs, culture, laws, wealth, values, etc. The family unit was the first educational system. The first economic system. Having children provided the labor pool, etc.

A "stable family" of one man and one woman made for a "stable society." De-stabilize the family unit logically destabilizes society and the social systems in society. Families of one man and one female teach the products of the family, the children, how to assume adult roles of males and females in that society.

Therefore, we can conclude that to attack, damage and weaken a society the first line of attack should be at its basic institutions, the family unit. And, this can be accomplished by redefining what constitutes a family. Or, removing one of the main elements of the family, the man or the woman because that will change the family's atomic structure.

To test this theory look at how liberal policies have damaged and have destroyed the black family.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moynihan_Report

http://www.aps-pub.com/proceedings/1492/490213.pdf

Our main institution, pt 2
Liberal Democrat and New York Senator, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, predicted that liberal policies would destroy the black family and create social problems, crime, prison population increases, etc.

Efforts to protect the "family unit" as an institution, in fact, are efforts to protect our society's most basis element, one man and one woman having children to perpetuate our society. Damage that institution, the family ... and it leads to conditions where Barack Obama has adults believing he, from Washington, will pay their mortgages and buy them gasoline ... like dependent, magical thinking, children!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_thinking

http://pt5.psychologytoday.com/articles/200802/magical-thin king

democrat political policies require an adult voting population that engages in childish "magical thinking!" Creativity requires a thinking mind; liberalism requires a dependent mind that thinks those that support freedom and free thought want to deny them help from the government:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck

Well said, Dennis
Dennis Prager wrote : "Outside of politics, sports, and popular entertainment, how many living Germans, or French, or Austrians, or even Brits can you name?"

As for Germans, I can think of the great evangelist Reinhard Bonnke. With him, the list just about begins and ends. For Britons and French, I my lists are even shorter. Dennis Prager is right on the ball. Socialism and secularism have neutered and gutted the continent that led the world for the many centuries.

To Brent
I am reminded of my age-sixtyish neighbors who, ten years ago, made their first trip outside the United States---to Toronto, Canada. When they ventured beyond their hotel, they were astonished and appalled to learn that they could not pay for their purchases with US currency. "You'd think," they sputtered in indignation, "that that would be grateful for anything we give them."

To J-De-O
I thought the second paragraph of your 7:07 post was pretty interesting because if you take out the part about the concubines, it sounds a lot like what many conservatives---and you, yourself, Joel---have said in praise of the duties and habits of American conservative women: relatively high birthrate, marital obedience, strict faithfulness to a religious/political ideology, and failure to assimilate into the larger culture. A woman who is obedient to her husband, who doesn't go to school much or work outside the home, who doesn't think much beyond the parameters of what her religion has taught her, and who fears and avoids the influence of society on her children---sounds like both an Islamic sister and a good townhall conservative. With this exception: I don't recall ever reading that Islamic women won't even send their children to school, but teach them at home, as do American conservative homeschooling women.

Prager is right
I'm old and out of touch, but I've been to Europe 5 times in my life. I think it is slowly descending into another dark ages, with the possible exception of the eastern countries; however they, too seem to be signing on to the EU treaty, whose regulatory morass will burden them out of the chance to grow. Religion may be a good counterweight, though: we'll just have to wait and see.

The Reactionaries are getting it
"...America has been the center of energy and creativity in almost every area of life because it has remained far more religious than any other industrialized Western democracy and because it has rejected the welfare state social model..."

Utter rubbish LOL. Again why are not the Red States the center of American progress and education. Why isn't Jackson, MS the mecca (pardon my word choice) of all science and progress?

Prager's piece does show that they are getting it finally. Notice the use of passive voice. This country WAS the undisputed leader in every area of human endeavor. Now the only leader where we MAY be the undisputed leader is military but considering how badly that has been abused and damaged even here we are slipping. This entire slide is due to reaganism turning viral. Ronnie would be aghast at what he started. Now all they have to do is own up....uh, wait, I forgot being a modern conservative is never having to say you are sorry


Those of you
listing entertainers and sports figures as a rebuttal to this column apparently did not read it to closely -- Prager says very clearly that Europe has popular culture figures.

I think where Europe is lacking is small to medium businesses and inventions.

Personally, I just assume that Europe is a lovely place (well most countries) that will soon cease to exist as European. Within in my lifetime I will more than likely see large portions of Europe become part of the greater Islamic Caliphate. What depresses me is the loss of art and architecture that will likely follow.

Decline and Fall of the West
larry22: You're on to something as to a man and a woman, husband and wife, being the foundation of society. The black family was destroyed by the liberal programs of LBJ. Come to think of it, President Obama's family went through that same crisis. His father was not a black American but he emulated thousands of black Americans by deserting his wife. Fortunately, his white wife had parents who took over the upbringing of Obama.

O'Reilly's program last night featured a discussion about triads--a marriage of three. His cultural "experts"--two lovely blondes did not think current U.S. law would permit that--but they agreed that marriage was appropriate and accepted by society for two people. I notice they didn't specify that the two people should be of the opposite sex. They had already surrendered to the current homosexual propaganda and agenda.

We're on the slippery slope and all combinations are possible and probably will be a reality 20 or 30 years from now. I think human society reached its peak in the Fifties and now is degenerating into chaos, which will lead to tyranny eventually. Well, we had a good run while it lasted.

Oh and not to give
Europe a pass but the quality of literature, art, and music as declined greatly in the West and Russia which includes America. Personally, I think it is the greater culture which may include increasing secularism but also includes the failure of universities to revere, teach and and strive for greatness. And the rewards given for completely ridiculous thought and inconsequential accomplishments. We have created an almost homogenous popular culture (see Japanese metal bands) that caters to the lowest common denominator. We also have in the fine arts a desire to stand out by being shocking and a complete condescension in these circles to capturing beauty or truly representational art.

Very good, Dennis
Substitute New York or California every place you describe Europe, and there you go.

Unfortunately, there are simply too many people wandering around who are uninvolved. They find politics distasteful and don't pay attention to what is happening unless they catch a biased blurb on the tube or maybe the slanted news at the top of the hour on the radio.

Only when gubmint with it's socialistic, heavy handed, oppression begins to creep into their lives will they realize what they're losing, although by that time it may be too late.

How did we get here? Fifty years of gubmint funded education which has dumbed down and undermined the traditions and values that made us great. The NEA is the enemy within. I can't even recommend parents resort to homeschooling, because these same people are products of the system and aren't equipped to educated their own children.

I've watched for years as inferior teachers with secular and socialist agendas turn out inferior students, who in turn, become even worse teachers. A downward spiral not just to mediocrity, but to ineptitude and ignorance = a perfect electorate for the statist.

reason.com
"If we can invent the internet, who knows what's next!"

Al Gore invented the internet, so I can tell you exactly what was next. He invented global warming.

Christianity brought us:
Modern hospitals, prisons that segregate by age and offense, modern education, open to all, modern banking. The list is endless. You may not like the facts, but they are facts just the same.

Oh and for those of you
saying that MT or UT would be a hotbed of creativity if Prager's thesis was correct. He's talking about America as a whole and the effects of the greater culture. You do know that all musicians, artists, inventors are not born and raised in major cities -- they move there because that's where the opportunities and larger populations are. I see the influence of Catholicism in popuar culture all the time, and most of the movies, music, art are created by non-Catholics. Art or even pop music is not created in a vacuum it is influenced by the larger culture. I think the lack of exposure to anything beyond the politically correct will ultimately destroy the fine arts as well as the lesser arts.

And a further argument on Prager's theme, is black cultural contributions in America. Black America is as a whole very religious and they have produced jazz, the blues, R&B, and rap. Out of the more religious areas of the country came folk art and what is now known as hard country. And finally, the best literature America produced in the late 19th and 20th centuries came out of the American South -- Faulkner anyone? (And the list of great Southern writers is endless.

LuLu
"Date: May 12, 2009 - 8:11 AM EST
Those of you...I think where Europe is lacking is small to medium businesses and inventions.

Personally, I just assume that Europe is a lovely place (well most countries) that will soon cease to exist as European..."

When is the last time you had an extended visit or lived there?

roadmaster
"Date: May 12, 2009 - 8:26 AM EST
Very good, Dennis
Substitute New York or California every place you describe Europe, and there you go..."

You sound like every old person since recorded history...after me the deluge. Are you up in age?

WIll
Learn how to read. Mr. Prager wrote that "outside of politics, sports and popular entertainment how many living (Europeans) can you name".

Other than Hawking, and maybe even he, you listed people in those categories. Congratulations on proving your own irrelevance.


Modernism and post-modernism
Modernism is the foundation of empirical-ism. Post-modernism is the foundation of relativism. The research method of modernism, quantitative research, is the basis of many scientific discoveries through the ages. The post-modern research method, qualitative research, holds how one feels is relative to ones perceptions and perceptions form many unique realities with no one view of reality dominating another view of reality.

Engineering, medicine, science requires modernist thinking of absolutes, one plus one is two. This is not relative; it can be empirically proven through experimentation.

Liberal arts and the humanities require post-modernist thinking; beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Views of beauty are relative and cannot be proven through empirical research or hypothesis testing or experimentation.

Now, the left-coast, liberal, is dominated by post-modernist thought which claims to embrace science but rejects science's requirement of absolutes to establish that there are laws that govern the natural world and these laws can be discovered through experimentation and hypothesis testing from a mindset that accepts there are absolutes.

Modernist thought, accepting that there are absolutes that can be discovered, transformed the world with scientific discoveries.

In all Universities, Colleges of Science flows from modernism, using quantitative research methods. These essays and literature is based on the literary form of argumentation. Colleges if liberal Arts flow from post-modernism, using qualitative research methods. These essays and literature is based on the literary form of rhetoric and rhetorical persuasion.

Conservatism is based on modernism and absolute-ist modernist thought. Liberalism is based on post-modernism and relativistic post-modernist thought.

Liberals talk about science and claim for themselves the good fruit of science ... but reject scientific thinking because it is intolerant.

I agree with Praeger..
Read Stark, the Victory of reason(and references contained therein).

Of course Will's list is rampant with musicians and entertainers. Quite impressive.

Dawkins is a mediocre scientist, but I will acknowledge Hawking (of course!)(even a blind chicken finds a worm once in a while).

And perhaps you'd explain why European scientists flock here to be educated?

Oh and Brent, Linux is a a freeware version of Unix(invented in the US). The maintenance and success of freeware is due largely to the spread of the WWW and the PC (both invented and developed in the US). And those cell phone rely on solid state technology ( transistor invented in the US) and it's great grandson (the IC, invented by TI).



Rap, a Leading Indicator of Decline
Lulu, I agree with you about the cultural decline. As a senior citizen, I can't hear, or understand, most of the lyrics in the songs today. At a time when almost anyone can be a "rock star" the music is atrocious. I remember the great bands and the great jazz of real artists like Louis Armstrong and Count Basie.

The deterioration of music is a leading indicator of the deterioration of our society. Also misuse of language and reliance on four-letter words to express emotions. I'm happy that I lived through the apex of our culture but I feel sad for my children and grandchildren who will never know how great it was to live in a vibrant, culturally rich country not yet suffering from the detritus of rap and rock.

Well if you want to be happy
you might try Northern European socialism
according to "happiness studies":

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/story.html?id=1576835

Of course many Americans are like me interested more in freedom than happiness.

None are so blind,
as those who will not see - Lilly.

I was married to a woman just like you, once. Super intelligent, but inculcated with the woman's lib propaganda. It was h_ll on earth. When I found my second wife, she had wised up, thanks to her smarts and basic religious beliefs that had finally overcame the insanity and counter culture baloney with which the "movement" had tried to displace common sense. Life was wonderful, but alas, she died.

My third wife was also a militant feminist in her younger years, but when she found Christ 20 years ago, it was only then was she truly liberated. She is an incredible partner, submitting to her husband.

But as a husband under Christ, I have obligations too. That is to love my wife and treasure her. She simply glows and grows with each passing day and makes me better. By being a Godly man, joined with a faithful woman, we are a hard team to beat.

I recommend this way of living to everyone. It is so liberating to let God direct your life and your marriage.

Maybe it's even worse than we think
Europe is as Mr. Prager says. But, it would be even worse were it not for the fact that the US has been dynamic over the past 80 years. Europe has been able to benefit from the US's advances -- in medicine, technology, arts, not to mention hiding under our military umbrella -- and still they fall behind. If the US goes socialist, as Obama and the Democrats cleary want -- there'll be no free rides for anyone, and the decline of Europe will accelerate.

larry22
"Date: May 12, 2009 - 8:40 AM EST...Liberals talk about science and claim for themselves the good fruit of science ... but reject scientific thinking because it is intolerant."

LMAO You mean things like evolution, education, healthcare? You want us to go back to your shaman and the earth being the center of the universe?

everyonesfacts
"Date: May 12, 2009 - 8:45 AM EST
Well if you want to be happy
you might try Northern European socialism
according to "happiness studies":

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/story.html?id=1576835

Of course many Americans are like me interested more in freedom than happiness."

Yet you have less of both. Are you saying it is an either or situation? I find it interesting that you life in a very blue state with lots of amenities. If you really mean what you say why don't you move to say NW Mississippi?

doofass-the-dimwit: Same ol', same ol'..

The dimwit has NOTHING BUT... LMAO and condescending comments...

Could it be that doofass-the-dimwit really doesn't have two functioning brain cells to rub together to start a thought???



Prager
"Outside of politics, sports, and popular entertainment, how many living Germans, or French, or Austrians, or even Brits can you name?"

Just because you are ignorant, don't assume everyone else is.
Anyway, ask anyone outside of America to name some famous Americans and they'll name people out of politics, sports and popular entertainment.

"The issues that preoccupy most Europeans are overwhelmingly material ones. How many hours per week will I have to work? How much annual vacation time will I have? "

Right, how material can you get - wondering how much time you'll get to spend with your family? And of course, no-one in America is concerned about their jobs at all.

What a load of nonsense.

Mr. Prager
Good column. I live in the blue state of MN, and see the results of the things talked about in your column. MN has a very progresive welfare program. Minneapolis/ST.Paul being of coaurse the largest areas of such benevolent programs. The resaults are sad; High crime, out of wedlock berth rates, sky high drug use, gang issues, ect. The welfare state makes disconected citizens.
Kirk

Prager2
Actually if you ask anyone IN America to name some famous Americans, all the people they'll name will be in politics, sports and popular entertainment.

In fact there are many famous business men and women in Britain, from Richard Branson, the recently deceased Anita Roddick, Duncan Bannatyne, Peter Jones, Sir Alan Sugar. Many famous scientists too: Hawking, Dawkins, Steve Jones, Susan Greenfield.

If you don't know who there are it's probably because you either don't live in Britain, or just that well-informed.

Everyone believes in micro evolution...
...because if you take a dog from Africa and put that dog in Iceland that dog will evolve to survive in the new environment though the genetic adaptation of dominant and recessive genes. However, macro evolution, which is the basis of the theory of evolution, is questionable. Why?

Because if a dog evolved into a cat where in the fossil record are the dogcats? And, the pigbears? And, the monkeyrats? And, the fishchickens? The fossil record should be filled with the transitional bones of all of these transitional creatures. When did the chicken lay an egg with a dog inside? When did two horses bred and have a fox? And, where is this occurring today. Or, has evolution stopped? When did evolution stop occurring in nature? Or, is evolution only a thing of the distant past? What stopped evolution?

I know ... I know ... as Algore said, the debate is over ... liberals have placed all faith in evolution and worship at its altar!

Getting back to my points. Bones of transitional creatures should be more than bones of the static creature. But, we have fossils of past extinct creatures. And, current fossil bones of static creatures. However, we do not have one single fossil bone of transitional dogcat creatures. Charles Darwin’s work never supported macro evolution! His research supported micro evolution, genetic adaptation within a static species, which still occurs today though dominant and recession genetic adaptation.

Faulty premise
If this is the case, why are all of the really good movies these days coming out of Europe? American movie makers are putting out mostly pop oriented trash.

Looking at Nobel prizes I see that America has by far the most, but almost all of them are for science, which is different from a purely creative field like Literature. And a lot of the ones claimed by America are actually foreigners.

And interestingly, we had a boom of Nobel Prize winners for literature in the thirties forties and fifties: John Stienbeck 1962, Hemmingway 1954, Faulkner 1949, T.S. Elliot 1948, Pearl Buck 1938, Sinclaire Lewis 1930.

Since then, all we have is Toni Morrison in 1993.

Is it a coincidence that this spike in creativity came at around the time of The New Deal? Hmmmmm.

And weren't these guys mostly secular?

Also, a lot of the greatest art has been produced under extremely poor conditions. Anne Frank, for example.

And that GK Chesterton quote is getting tired. As if there are no believers who believe crazy stuff. Please. Prager is religious, and he believes that there were ties between Iraq and al Queda, and that George Bush will someday be considered a great president. Hah!

Phylo out.

Kirk
Do you realize that Minneapolis, and Minnesota consistently rank near the top in almost every category of quality of life standards? Minneapolis, which voted for Obama by 82% to about 16%, is one of the best cities in America, by far, in terms of quality of life measurements. You should try living in a place like Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas, West Virginia. Yeah, those red staters have it all figured out. These states always reside at the bottom of quality of life measurements.

Have you ever noticed how all of these conservative talk show hosts just happen to reside in liberal areas? Bill Bennett? Washington D.C. Dennis Prager? L.A. Michael Medved? Seattle. Hugh Hewitt? L.A. Rush Limbaugh? Palm Beach FL. Sean Hannity? NYCity. Why do you suppose that is? They could live anywhere they want to, but they choose to live in the bluest of blue areas. You think that's a coincidence?

AndyR
You missed the entire point of this article

Phylo Se Fiser
The Nobel prizes in the humanities are highly politicized (have you read the crap Morrison produces?). I don't think Nobel prizes are a legitimate argument.

IMHO the best literature of the last 25 years has come out of Latin America, and many of the writers are Marxists or atheists. But they were born and raised in cultures that are decidedly not secular, and they are also from countries that are 2nd world if not 3rd world in some areas -- meaning they are not living European style socialism. These countries are still filled with those who are striving often to survive. Complacency does not produce great art or science. That's how you get Europe's slow death march (see birth rates and innovations in the last 50 years).

It is what it is, and America was heading there although we still had scientific and technological advances. The impending move to a more government controlled society and economy will just get us there sooner.

Talent scout
"You missed the entire point of this article"

I don't think I did. Perhaps you didn't read my posts properly.

By the way, what's Prager's explanation for Europe's lower teen pregnancy rates, and better infant mortality rates, and higher average age at death than Europe? Is that down to Europe's socialism and secularism too?

Larry22
"Because if a dog evolved into a cat where in the fossil record are the dogcats?"

Well larry, dogs didn't evolve into cats, hence the lack of dogcats. So that answers your question.

However, we do have a fossil record for the evolution of the horse, and indeed the animals that evolved into dogs and cats respectively.

larry22
"Date: May 12, 2009 - 9:20 AM EST
Everyone believes in micro evolution...
...because if you take a dog from Africa and put that dog in Iceland that dog will evolve to survive in the new environment though the genetic adaptation of dominant and recessive genes. However, macro evolution, which is the basis of the theory of evolution, is questionable. Why?..."

It is not questionable at all. Just one example, the transition of some dinosaurs into birds is fairly well documented. You deny the incredibly slow nature of evolution. A dog does not produce a cat for example. Subtle changes over time draws species away from their beginnings look at the very subtle difference between chimps and humans. As you sit down careful you don't hurt your 'tail bone". You are made of spare parts. If a divine creator made you as a specific creature he did a pretty poor job just look at you appendix

Egalitarianism, Naturalism
Good observation, Dennis. The egalitarian longing expressed politically in socialism stultifies any notion of the exceptional that infuses a free society. It therefore tends to drag a culture to the lowest common denominator. And without religion, a society is stuck within the confines of naturalism. There is no celestial rudder to guide its imagination and aspiration higher. Exhibit A: reality TV.

Lulu
I agree that Morrison's stuff is weak. Though I haven't read much of it. But you seem to be intentionally skipping over my argument about America's golden age of literature. Those guys were great. Their stuff still holds up well. And is it a coincidence that they came at around the time of the greatest expansion of government in America's history?

This is not to argue for bigger government. For me the argument is not bigger or smaller, but what works and what doesn't. Private health insurance, for example, doesn't work nearly as efficiently as government run health insurance. But I would hate to see the government taking over the means of production. And so would Barack Obama, by the way.



will:
Read the article carefully:

"Outside of politics, sports, and popular entertainment..."

That takes away like 7/8 of your list! And when you add another qualifier, "In terms of greatness..." that definitely cuts out Richard Dawkins. Add the final qualifier, "living", and you lose Orwell and Keyenes, and Hawking will not be far behind. That leaves J.K. Rowling, though many would argue she is included in "popular entertainment".

Whose mind is brain-dead this morning?

Without profit
there is no growth.

Phylo Se Fiser
What is the basic principles of the left?

All I have ever seen is politics without founding principle.

The left chooses its enemies, and leave all principles aside.

Truth means agreement with their politics.

Loyalty means to the person of their dear leader.

Faithfulness means killing and murdering anyone who opposes their politics.

Once the fruit of their politics controls a nation like Russia, Germany, Italy, Cuba, Vietnam, Cambodia, China and other lessor known communist regimes.

The one and only principle Marxists hold true to is the principle of control

Always in rebellion against civil rights and calling their destructive politics about civil rights.
The very last thing on earth Marxists care about.

Steinbeck was turned into the enemy of the left for his support of the US Army in Vietnam.

The left cannot handle disagreement in peace.

All it takes to bring out rude personal attacks on persons is a simple disagreement with them on any of their politics.

Politics is their only principle.
Agenda is their only faith.
Control is their only goal and principle.

There is no such thing as Liberty in the politics of socialism.

There is only oppression and control, and liberty from peace and happiness

Europe is Good
As an American, I think Europe does things better than us....they are more open to ideas than we are...and who isn't concerned with health care, hours, vacation, etc? Frankly, I think we could learn a few things from them...by the way, my wife is from Bavaria..so at least I know one name from Europe....

Phylo
Explain to me your exact reasons for believing even one single word that comes out of OBAMAs mouth.

Phylo dough: "Minneapolis, and Minnesota
consistently rank near the top in almost every category of quality of life standards?"


Where did you get that, Steve Sailer's iSteve Blog? HA HA HA


Actually, the areas with the worst standards, and the highest unemployment have voted dem-o-crat for decades.






Hal
LuLu is very accurate in her post on dying Europe and you again show your ignorance.

I currently live in Europe and have spent a total of 15 years living here (1992-2006 and 2008 to present) and I can tell you Europe as it was known will soon be a thing of the past.

Native Europeans have a negative birthrate - 1.1 to 1.4 per couple, while the flood of Muslim immigrants (allowed in to build up the workforce required to sustain the European's unlimited ridiculous social entitlements) are breeding like rabbits.

Read "America Alone" by Mark Steyn if you are interested in all the facts (although we both know you're not)


talent scout
Your hyperbolic rant suggests to me that you don't spend much time with actual liberals; you just hear about them from right wing radio hacks.

Barack Obama is supposedly a radical leftist. How many people has he killed that oppose his politics? Where are all of the personal attacks on people who disagree with him?


Phylo
You forgot architecture. European architecture is superior to the crap the United States is putting out these days.

But the best artistic explosion in history would be Italy (renaissance). In this era the entrenched aristocracy spent all their money on art and excess. Another "great" art society is Indian. If they had a choice between feeding their people and building great art there really was no choice.

When America was at it's greatest we were the cultural laughing stock of the world. We were small "grubby" communities. Europeans thought we wore "awful" clothes that one had to "work" in. We were so pedestrian and lowly. Amazingly we were the most productive when we were the least obsessed with grandiosity.

After World War 2 growth counts, but not as much as at this time because we actually had to compete with others. It's easy to be the world's top producer when everyone's cities are bombed out. It's easy to be culturally superior when all the other countries cared about was not starving.

We got lazy
We got lazy. We cared more about Hollywood than the community. We cared about building monuments to ourselves. We believed in "my corporation is bigger than yours." We forgot how to be practical or as Europeans would say "lowly and pedestrian." We forgot to how to ask the simple questions? Is this practical? Does this work?

Instilled in the American the spirit was the wariness of the snake oil salesman because we were grounded in "does this work." We forgot that in the 90s we when threw all of our money in these "corporate" entities because we though the entities really care about profits and the individual at the top couldn't just care about themselves and steal all the money for themselves. We lost a bunch on this ponzi scheme. Then we went to another ponzi scheme in the dot.com era. Then another with the real estate. All the while we forgot the biggest of all the ponzi schemes during this time which was the government. "Don't worry we'll take care of that." "The community doesn't know what you need." "We do." We forgot the questions that made us great: Does this work? Is this practical?

I hope Prager and other conservatives remember when America was at it's greatest. And I hope they can be able to articulate it better than Prager did in this article. Because now more than any other time in our history we need to be able to educate people on American Exceptionalism. Because it's not the art work. It's not who can write the most Harry Potters wins. It's the respectabily the individual and the community.

Perhaps when you educate them ask yourselves: Is this tactic working? Am I being too preachy? Does this work? Instead of thinking these people are stupid. Why won't they get it.

There is no God
I have no purpose. Life is meaningless. Why create anything. And let us make sure our children are protected against faith in God, Creator of the Universe, so they can be as miserable and doomed as we.

In fact Europeans despair of life so much they aren't even having children.

Joycey
One reason is that I actually read real newspapers and transcripts of his speeches. You, on the other hand, only listen to right wing shock jocks who only give tiny little parts of stories and speeches, and then they mischaracterize those. So it's no wonder you have such a mistaken impression of him.

Another reason is that he is doing everything he said he would do during the campaign, which lasted for two years. And he is exactly the same person who I got to know by reading his books. He is very consistent in what he says and what he believes. So I have no reason to doubt his sincerity.

My question to you is: Why would you believe anything that Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity say? Sean Hannity, about twelve times a day, says that Barack Obama wants to unilaterally disarm America. There is ZERO truth to that statement. Rush Limbaugh says, every day, that Obama wants to destroy free enterprise. Again, there is ZERO truth to that statement. The only reason the government is taking over banks is because the banks failed and got themselves into trouble. And letting them fail would've meant economic disaster.

So why do you believe these lying sacks of garbage?



Townhall
Has many trolls from the left who come every day and use personal attacks on posters, Phylo.

I do not need to listen to the radio to see it here every day.

You people are extremly hateful, rude, belligerant and pushy.
Smart elecks, egotists, whiners, spoiled brats, empty headed mouth pieces of your dear leader.

And Phylo
You skipped over answering my question.

What is the basic principles of you Marxists?

I know the answer, but want to see how many loops you will jump through to twist words as you come to do

Phylo's Seeming Naivete
Phylo: "Barack Obama is supposedly a radical leftist. How many people has he killed that oppose his politics? Where are all of the personal attacks on people who disagree with him?"

You really must get up to speed! Obama has coordinated personal attacks against Rush Limbaugh even before he became president. And have you heard his attacks on Sean Hannity?

As for the killing, we conservatives expect that his next move is to destroy conservative talk show hosts' livelihood through manipulation of a new Fairness Act.

Jeez! It's embarrassing to see the depth of your ignorance--or maybe it's deliberate!

Jerseyvet out!

Icedog
"Date: May 12, 2009 - 10:08 AM EST
Hal
LuLu is very accurate in her post on dying Europe and you again show your ignorance.

I currently live in Europe and have spent a total of 15 years living here (1992-2006 and 2008 to present) and I can tell you Europe as it was known will soon be a thing of the past."

Hmmm I started living there earlier 1976 to 1990 and on and off for short periods since. I maintain a club in the UK and have access to a home. I served three plus years flying with the RAF. I was a fairly high executive in both a large German and a large French company. I too am familiar.

"..Native Europeans have a negative birthrate - 1.1 to 1.4 per couple, while the flood of Muslim immigrants (allowed in to build up the workforce required to sustain the European's unlimited ridiculous social entitlements) are breeding like rabbits."

so what? Times change

"...Read "America Alone" by Mark Steyn if you are interested in all the facts (although we both know you're not)"

nice slam why do that?

damn your good!
Prager nails it right between the eyes!

but the predictable crowd will rage against this notion. this challenges them at such a visceral level that it will cause a dumbfounded, confused and frantic response.

But, history proves Mr. Prager absolutely correct. i wish he wasn't right because this is exactly where we are headed as a country.

so many say how cerebral obama is and are in awe of his intellect...i question if someone is truly a thinker if he ignores history and are proven to know little of it (both obama and biden suffer from this deficiency!). they both live and act through emotions and ideology without sifting them through the lens of history. after all...isn't it ALL about them, anyway? who cares about the future of this country, hence, the world. it will be an ugly place without the light of the U.S. guiding through the darkness.

Within a species there...
...are sub-species that become extinct, change in size, or change to inhabit a new environmental niche. There are whole groups of species that have become extinct. Birds are a sub-species that included extinct dinosaurs causing birds to share similar genetic material with dinosaurs leading up to today. If they want to re-create a "dinosaur" they will use the genetic material of a "bird" to do it because they are "genetic" distant relatives.

However, macro evolution does not answer how does the genetic material of one species becomes the genetic material for another, new species, when the new species is born by two members of the static species? Does this macro evolution process of two members of a static species giving birth to a member of a new species continue today? Where are the new species of creatures that a brand new to the world at? Show me seven. Show me two. Show me one.

On the many animal farms around the world, where are the new creatures, yet to be classified, being born by two static animals for the first time? There should be many. How was the new genetic material introduced into the gene pool of the static genetic material to produce the new creature?

How does this process of macro evolution occur two times? And, how does this process of macro evolution, done twice to produce a male and a female new creature, occur to enabling the new creature species to reproduce themselves as a new static creature line?

I know ... I know ... as Algore said, the debate is over. But, the prime ethos of science and of the scientist is skepticism and when Algore or the liberal says the debate is over, that should make us skeptical because when will we know all there is to know about anything in order to say there is no more need for debate because we, Algore and liberals, know it all!

Huh?
"In fact Europeans despair of life so much they aren't even having children."

Another, more accurate, interpretation would be that they enjoy their lives so much, they are not willing to undergo the radical change in it that having children would entail.

Certainly, a brief glance at the birthrates around the world should be enough to convince any fair-minded person that they don't positively correlate with happiness or a well-run society.

Now, you can argue, as Dennis does, that that means they are selfish. I don't necessarily disagree with that, but then you are in the position of arguing that the problem with the European model is not that it causes unhappiness, but that it causes selfishness. Whoops.

How many people
Have Mafia Dons killed Phylo?

They do not kill anyone but build an organization that does.
Same thing you Marxists do.

Marxists are all thugs and criminals.

They have no respect for the Rule of Law unless they make the Law bend to their politics, like this criminal fraud in the WH, Obama.
======================


Phylo Se Fiser writes:

Barack Obama is supposedly a radical leftist. How many people has he killed that oppose his politics? Where are all of the personal attacks on people who disagree with him?
=======================

His policies will do the job on all America, marxism brings nothing but violence and crime.

Its a demented political rebellion against the Creator.

Nothing new in Marxism, its ancient rebellion against Liberty and Truth.

The most criminal and violent governments the world has ever known came about from the plans of an insane man, Karl Marx, and his useful idiots like Phylo.

The man was mad, insane with envy and greed, and only fools follow this demented old man to their own destruction

Jason
"Date: May 12, 2009 - 10:16 AM EST
We got lazy
We got lazy. We cared more about Hollywood than the community. We cared about building monuments to ourselves. We believed in "my corporation is bigger than yours."..."

But this is where fundamentalist conservatism leads. It is all about the individual; it is not about the community or other generations.

By the way the greatest period of US history was the great Depression and WWII. That is when we fought off the allure of fascism and communism to work together and rebuild a nation. Then we threw our all into tilting the balance against the forces of oppression and arming the world and fighting off those evils. Those traits that produced those results were the founders' values and the American spirit.

"...I hope Prager and other conservatives remember when America was at it's greatest...It's not who can write the most Harry Potters wins. It's the respectabily the individual and the community."

You just endorsed President Obama and the Democratic Party thank you and welcome aboard

Karl Marx was a dingbat
Truly an insane degenerate fool.

His children are just like him, greedy, envious and crazy as a loon

Obama is More Successful than Thought

The director of the Congressional Budget Office today updated his projections for the budget and economic outlook and is now anticipating a $1.8 trillion deficit this year, and $1.4 trillion in 2010.

This is up from CBO director Douglas W. Elmendorf’s January 2009 projection of a $1.2 trillion deficit this year. In short, the US government is borrowing 50 cents for every dollar it spends.

The new projected deficit is four times the 2008 deficit, which was a record high for its time.

Barack Obama's plan for 'Economic Failure' in America, is advancing faster than he had 'Hoped' for at this point.

Barack Obama will probably plan a 'Party' to celebrate the news, fly in $139 a pound steaks and get down.

Obama actually Worked?????

If Maureen Dowd can be believed, I may have to apologize to Barack Obama.

I have often said that Barack Obama has absolutely NO business experience.

Maureen Dowd wrote this in an article in the NYT May 9, 2009.

"Once, during his campaign trip to Europe, Mr. Obama told me that he had briefly sold subscriptions to The New York Times when he was at Columbia University to help pay for school, but confessed he wasn’t very good at it." Maureen Dowd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Barack Obama may have much more business experience than any one could have imagined - he sold newspaper subscriptions door to door - I am impressed, at least he has worked some time in his life.

Curchill Bust reminded Obama of Patriots

Why did Barack Obama send the bust of Churchill back? Well Obama doesn't want to be reminded of Patriotism.

If Barack Obama had been Churchill

The famous speech by Winston Churchill after the evacuation of the British Expeditionary Force from Dunkirk, would have been like this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

We shall appease and apologize to the end.

We shall appease and will NOT fight in Europe.

We shall appease on the seas and oceans.

We shall appease and apologize with growing confidence and weaken our superiority in the Air.

We shall NOT defend this country, whatever the cost might be, because America is the problem.

We shall appease and apologize on our beaches, We shall appease and apologize on the landing grounds.

We shall appease and apologize in the fields and in the streets and in the hills and mountains.

We shall always appease and apologize, for America being the cause of all problems in the world.

Test:
Name GREAT people that are known internationally (not artists, popular entertainers, politicians, athletes, etc)... that live in Montana.

If you cannot dot this, then the so-called "anti-creative" effect of socialism has affected Montana.

Brits vs. Montanans: Who is more creative, dynamic, entrepreneurial, innovative, intellectual, risk-taking?

Whoever loses is the most "socialistic".



This article is ready for the trash heap, nothing more than scared "traditional" religious americans Europe-bashing (these americans are a small minority of haters here; true americans must distance themselves from them. If these american sanctimonious ultra-religious types cannot bash hispanics or gays anymore... well, then EUROPE will have to do!

(Remember: Satan is always alive and working his evil. If gays are normalized now, and feminists aren't a real threat, THERE HAS TO BE A NEW OUTLET FOR THE EVANGELICAL'S SATANIC FANTASIES. Europe will do.)

Other posters stole all my points!
So I'll just say that this has to the most moronic piece by Prager I've seen yet. Jeez.

The air is getting heavy
Dennis Prager is correct to a large extent. There are so many views to the article
mostly well written. However, the overall content of some reflects the lack of sincere morality and respect to others.
It's essential that we all understand this; God's thoughts and His way are different than our thoughts and our ways.
His thoughts and ways are as far apart from our thoughts and ways as heaven is from earth.

Many years ago an old friend of mine asked me, "how come a smart person like yourself believes in God"?
I responded, " how come an intelligent person like yourself does not believe in God"? I continued with, "Who's better off,the one who doesn't believe and there is one, or the
one who believes and there isn't one"?
I for one, believes and knows there is one God.

To Will
Will wrote:
Name GREAT people that are known internationally (not artists, popular entertainers, politicians, athletes, etc)... that live in Montana.

If you cannot dot this, then the so-called "anti-creative" effect of socialism has affected Montana.

Brits vs. Montanans: Who is more creative, dynamic, entrepreneurial, innovative, intellectual, risk-taking?

You're not exactly a PHD candidate in Geography or History are you? Are you aware of the population of Montana or how long it's been a state?

May want to re-think your analogy.





RETIRED GEEK
At the White House Correspondents dinner Obama said the first 100 days of his presidency had been a success and in the next 100 days he would get everything done in 72 days, on the 73rd day he would rest.

Even though this was suppose to be said as a joke, I guess he really believes that he is the Messiah.


Reba
"Date: May 12, 2009 - 11:23 AM EST
RETIRED GEEK...Even though this was suppose to be said as a joke, I guess he really believes that he is the Messiah. "

Not at all he was making fun of people like you calling him the messiah LOL

Typical Marxist
Frey writes:- 11:13 AM EST
Other posters stole all my points!
So I'll just say that this has to the most moronic piece by Prager I've seen yet. Jeez.
=======================

Here is all the Marxist come to offer, an attack on persons.

These people are insane.

I do not choose to use the word insane in an attempt to hype a point.

I am calmly stating the state of mind it takes to come on TH and make such rude and hate filled attacks on the person instead of pointing out some path to understanding for peace.

These people do not know peace and only know rudeness and hate, being filled with hate through frenzy like personal attacks.

These people appear on the surface as normal, but inside they are full of every vile emotion produced by degenerate mankind.

Obama has already lowered his self to attacking individual citizens at a level unheard of by past Presidents.

He cannot lower the Office, as the Office is far above this fool's insolence for Liberty and Truth, Constitution.

He is digging a pit for himself and his supporters is all.

No man escapes Justice through fraud as this man thinks he can do.

He is not true in anything he says, but is a deceiver, a destroyer and an omen of the coming unrest

King George or King Obama?

"...He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent.

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people."

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

John Hancock

Evident even 40 years ago
and the primary reason (secondary was monetary which still applies today) that India suffered a "brain-drain" of doctors, professors, ... to Canada, US and UK at that time.

Reba et al

One of Barack Obama's 'Spiritual Mentors', neighbor in Chicago and close friend Louis Farrakhan stated that Barack Obama is the 'Messiah'.

Louis Farrakhan whom Jeremiah Wright and Barack Obama gave a 'Lifetime Achievement Award' is the one who started calling Barack Obama the 'Messiah' NOT conservatives.

FARRAKHAN: You are the instruments that God is going to use to bring about universal change and that's why Barack has captured the youth.

FARRAKHAN: And he has involved young people in a political process that they didn't care anything about. When the Messiah speaks, the youth will hear, and the Messiah is absolutely speaking.

Joel-De Oppresso Liber
"Date: May 12, 2009 - 11:15 AM EST
Force vs. Choice...There is NO salvation without choice. Being FORCED to 'do the right thing' does NOT result in growth, but rather resentment!"

Really? Home school, controlled environment and then married off. How much choice is that? Most Muslim woman gladly embrace their chains - they know no better. There is only freedom when there is freedom for the minorities not the great average

An odd column
Americans are rather inword looking, so it is hardly shocking that most Americans do not keep up with european litterature. One suspect that Prager never did.

After all he begins his list of great Europeans of the past with Bertold Brecht whose great idea was a very naive faith in Communism as it existed in the USSR. He was a good writer, but his motivating ideas were strictly secular.

Prager begins by ruling out all of the classes of people who that Americans tend to know about, and then find significance in the fact that people don't know about them.

But top theoretical work in physics is being done in Europe. It is just not surprising that Americans (or most non-Americans for that matter) do not know who is doing important theoretical work.

There was a shift of dominance from primarily Germany to primarily the US in the 1930's but this was a result of an exodus of german thinkers, mainly jews and socialists, to the safety of the US and Britain.

But Prager is primarily taking his ignorance of anything that happens outside his immediate vision as showing that nothing is happening.

The idea that europeans are more concerned with material things than people in the US because they have more vacation time is a particularly odd one.

Obama and his mindless minions

Liberals want 1st Amendment Rights for everyone, as long as the 'Free Speech' always agrees with Liberal 'Feelings' and NO Liberal is offended.

Freedom of Speech to a Liberal, is to narrow the range of thought and speech.

Crimes at one time were actions, now crimes are not only actions, but speech and even thoughts.

Liberals want people prosecuted not only for an action, but what was being said and what was the person thinking.

Penalties for an action, could be less than the penalties for the words and thoughts during the action.

2009 = 1984 by George Orwell, 'Speech Crimes' and 'Thought Crimes', unless one uses "Liberal Speak".


Smallest minority is the Individual

America was founded on the concept of 'Individual Freedom'.

The individual citizen is the smallest minority in any society, NOT some Liberal Collectivist group.

A primary element of individualism is individual responsibility for self-determination, decisions, actions, deeds and accepting responsibility for everything one does or fails to do.

The individualist reasons that their identity is based on individual actions and pursuits and not on a 'Collectivist' group whether that group is race, gender, sexual preference or industry.

The individualist does not seek a life apart from others but understands that others are only a part of reality whereas ‘collectivists see the group as reality’.

Barack Obama and his 'Supporters' are AGAINST rights for the 'Individual' and want 'Rights for Collectivist Groups'.

What Liberals 'DO NOT UNDERSTAND' is that without the 'Individual Citizen' there is NO United States of America.


To Lulu
I want to reassure you that if Europe becomes "part of the Islamic Caliphate", European architecture won't necessarily be lost. Go look at the South of Spain---Andalucia. It was occupied and ruled by North African Muslims for 800 years (during which time their civilization flourished and gave Spain and the world the world many advances in mathematics, medicine, science, architecture (stone and tilework, fountains, shutters, patios), agriculture (hydraulic irrigation, canals, wool and silk and cotton culture). Then in the 15th Century when Spain became ultra-Christian it either threw out the Muslims or forced them to accept Christianity (remember the Inquisition? That's what it was about. When the Christians, like, you should pardon the word, tortured people) or else burned them alive if they wouldn't turn Christian.

Problem is, among the people that got thrown out (or killed off) were pretty much all of the architects, builders, artisans, and engineers, who were mostly Muslim, so there wasn't anybody around to build Christian churches. And left behind were all those bothersome mosques. So here's what the Spanish did: they turned the mosques into Christian churches. The minarets became campaniles. They stuck crosses on the rooftoops and angels over the doors. All of which you can still see, all over the South of Spain, these ex-mosques now-churches. Today, the Grand Mosque at Cordoba actually has a cathedral inside it.

So the opposite may be true. The cathedrals at Chartres and Reims and Alsace and Canterbury could become mosques: just unglue the crosses and angels and stick up Islamic symbols. We Christians did it: why shouldn't the Muslims?

oops
I must surely have misunderstood my history lessens in school, Did't ol' teach say that some of the greatest things in the world came about IN SPITE of religion????
How many was put to the death because what they were finding did not agree with the church????
while I do believe in God and an afterlife and Jesus. it really dose upset me when ones say great thing came about in europe because of religion, they came about in spite of it....

RGeek-Anne-SHGround-Others
So the Libtards put The Beatles and the Rolling Stones in the same league as Strauss, Freud, Einstein, etc?!?!?! LMAO at Morons! This gives away the REAL reason that Libtards LOVE Europe. The Liberal Gods of Morphine, Alcohol and Promiscuity run RAMPANT in Europe. It will be interesting to see how this changes as Muslims takes over Europe. The Muslim Takeover of Europe will lead to a new Artistic Phenomenon known as Splatter Art. If will be the Blood Splatter Patterns left on canvas when Muslims behead a Liberal Infidel.

Steven
Did the teacher happen to instruct you about basic spelling and grammar rules?

Reba et al

Barack Obama has NEVER repudiated or called in to question anyone who says he is the 'Messiah' - even Joe Biden said that Obama thought Easter was all about Obama.


"... a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany ... and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Obama" - Barack Obama Lebanon, New Hampshire.
January 7, 2008.

“It is absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.” Barack Obama

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"...Barack Obama isn't really one of us. Not in the normal way, anyway.

...A Lightworker -- An Attuned Being with Powerful Luminosity and High-Vibration Integrity who will actually help usher in a New Way of Being"
Mark Morford San Francisco Chronicle, Friday, June 06, 2008
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"What Barack Obama has accomplished is the single most extraordinary event that has occurred in the 232 years of the nation’s political history"
Jesse Jackson, Jr.

"I'll do whatever he says to do. I'll collect paper cups off the ground to make his pathway clear."
Halle Berry

"He is not operating on the same plane as ordinary politicians. . . . the agent of transformation in an age of revolution, as a figure uniquely qualified to open the door to the 21st century."
Gary Hart

"This is bigger than Kennedy. . . . This is the New Testament." | "I felt this thrill going up my leg. I mean, I don't have that too often. No, seriously. It's a dramatic event."
Chris Matthews

oT Ret Geek
Robert Frost has a poem about a man who is chopping his own wood when two professional loggers happen to walk past and critically watch his chopping technique, then Frost gives us a great line, "Except for the way a man handled an axe/ They had no way of knowing a fool".

Often on townhall I see this philosophy, that unless a leader has experience identical to one's own, he cannot possibly be a good leader. Thus, the Evangelistic Christian wants a born-again president; the uneducated person distrusts an intellectual president; the businessman insists that running a hardware store is the only preparation for being president; and someone is sure to say that Sarah Palin's qualification is that she resembles the poster's sister-in-law.

So what are we saying here, that we ourselves are so brilliant that only someone like us deserves to be president? Listen. A president needs to know the Constitution and the law: Obama taught Consitutional law for 12 years at a prestigious university, not to mention he's got a JD. A president needs to know how society actually operates: Obama learned that working in community organization, which included work in labor relations and economics. Business? He worked in corporate law, which is not a philanthropy. Government? He served 8 years as a State Senator. So don't give us that "Obama never worked".

George Washington was a land surveyor and a gentleman farmer. Abraham Lincoln was a country lawyer and a scholar. Having a good mind has generally been thought to be an advantage in high public office. Until townhall, that is.

More Great Brits
Arguably the greatest living painter is Lucian Freud, who is British. Several other members of his family are also famous in fields outside of the ones Prager prohibits (eg Matthew Freud).

Probably the most successful entrpreneurial artist in the world is Damian Hirst, who is also British, and has made hundreds of millions out of his art (it's not to my taste, but that's not the point).

As for science, Stephen Hawking is arguably the most famous Physicist in the world. You may not like Dawkins, but I'd say he's the most famous Biologist in the world.

Richard Branson is one of the most famous entrepreneurs in the world.

And come to think of it, when I think of famous American businessmen, the first two that come to my mind are Bill Gates and Warren Buffet. They don't really fit Prager's model as they're both atheists. And a far greater proportion of American scientists are atheists than you'll find in the general population, so it's a stretch to put their success down to religion.

To Jo-De-O
Ah Joel, I do so enjoy a chat with you when time allows and unfortunately now my time is short. I have to give you a point re the coercion of Islamic women since it's unlikely that even the most conservative Christian husband would have his wife stoned to death for marital infidelity. But I ask you to consider that there are other kinds of coercion. A few years ago in a wealthy suburb of Chicago (gorgeous home, plenty of $$$) a woman snapped, emotionally, and drowned her five children. She had suffered severe clinical depression after having her babies, but her husband thought they should have all the children God might send, so they kept conceiving. She was a professional operating room nurse, but her husband (a physician) didn't want her to work so she stayed home with the five. And she really was with them 24/7 because she homeschooled them as well as raised them. And from reports in the paper, my only source since I didn't know the family personally, she did not receive psychiatric treatment but was directed to a) her GYN and b) prayer. So one day she became delusional, something about saving the kids from Satan or thinking they were possessed by Satan, I forget, and she killed them. The baby didn't know what was happening, but the older children fought for their lives, a detail that makes me shiver as I write it.

Nobody stoned her. Nobody locked her in the house. But somehow she couldn't get out. Social pressure and marital authority did the job.

AndyR
You and will both missed the point of the article

will
Is eaten alive by his lust.
No matter what the subject is, he speaks about sex, and degenerate sex at that

Lilly et al

Lilly, you can be wealthy beyond your wildest dreams.

Just simply apply the Barack Obama 7 step 'Financial Logic', to your own personal finances.

1) Charge all of your credit cards to the maximum.

2) Apply for more credit cards and charge them to the maximum.

3) Mortgage everything you own to the maximum that you can.

4) Buy everything you can that you DO NOT NEED.

5) Invest money in the 'Worst' businesses you can find, especially those that have a history of mis-management.

6) Whatever cash is left, give it to the most human failures you can find.

7) Quit your job.

Sit back and wait for your personal economy to become successful, beyond your wildest dreams.

Don't Wait - start today with the 'BRILLIANT' Barack Obama wealth plan.

Christianity and science, pt 1
http://www.christianity.co.nz/science4.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Kant

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kant-moral/

Centuries ago early scientist, who were also Christians, believed that the natural world was governed by laws. And, the laws governing the natural law were established by a Law giver. And, a stable world based on the belief in a stable and constant God was the belief-system giving rise to empirical scientific inquiry centuries ago. Christian scientist believing God is knowable by studying His creation to uncover and know the Laws He set in place throughout His creation. Using these methods, the knowledge of man-kind has grown in all areas of human inquiry.

Christian scientist developed the modernist world-view grounded in the belief that there are absolutes and there are constants, like 1+1=2. This modernist philosophy and world-view gave rise to empirical inquiry forming quantitative research methods to test hypothesis to explore the natural world and uncover the laws, rules and relationships that influence the natural world in order to form theories of probability to test predictions about cause and effect.

Lilly - I am sure you will agree

WARNING Liberals like Lilly are the only ones who can follow the Barack Obama logic.

Obama's Logic:
--------------
1) Bankrupt the coal industry. Cutting out 50% of electrical production in the US.

2) Stop importing steel, only use American steel.

3) Coal is the only way to produce heat to make steel.

4) Make and buy only American cars out of steel, this will save the US auto industry.

5) Don't drive those cars, because that will minimize the environmental gains of bankrupting coal.

6) Build highways and bridges to drive the cars on that we shouldn't drive to save the planet.

7) Don't build nuclear power plants or drill for oil, so America can reduce its dependence on foreign oil imports.

8) Give money to mis-managed business's and then act indignant and betrayed, when those bad money managers mis-manage the money you gave them.

9) Give money to those who cannot manage their own budgets and buy things they cannot afford, so they can catch up with everyone else.

The Obama financial 'Doctrine' - if you have spent to much money on credit and cannot pay your bills, spend much, much more on credit to decrease your debt and ensure financial success.

Invest in failure to secure success.

'Failing Upward' is the Obama plan for success.

Retired Geek
Some of the "quotes" have already been debunked. They are made up.

Christianity and science, pt 2
Hypothesis testing involved experimentation to get numbers to enable the analysis of variance (ANOVA). Modern science and scientific inquiry flowed from the river of the Christian world-view in a stable world governed by laws established by a stable God, the creator of the natural world. Whose Laws they wanted to discover in order to know Him. Christian scientist believing in God, believed God was the measure of all things. And, knowledge starts and ends when we seek to know God, who is the sum total of all true knowledge.

Liberalism, rooted in post-modernism is human-centered and believes man is the measure of all things.

Since the 1970’s foreign enrollment in College of Science programs is greater than natural born American enrollment because foreign schools and programs mainly focus of teaching math requiring logical reasoning and working with stable numbers and thinking in terms that there are constants, which are the main components of the modernist world-view and quantitative research inquiry, which flows from the historical modernist world-view.

Post-modernism and the research method that flows from it, qualitative research, are mainly focused on feelings, emotions, and the relative interpretation of each human’s experience of reality, that varies from person to person. This world-view and belief-system never serves as a basis of science as proven by Algore and global warming as weather is governed by the chaos theory making weather forecasted reliable for no more than three days, not fifty years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

Obama practice what you Preach

"President Obama has repeatedly urged Wall Street executives to show restraint if they expect government help. “You can’t get corporate jets. You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas or go down to the Super Bowl on the taxpayer’s dime, ” Obama said at a town meeting this week in Elkhart, Ind.

Apparently, that’s no problem for another set of taxpayer-subsidized recipients looking to drum up business:

And what better way for a new Democratic administration to symbolize cutting out excess in a time of hardship for millions of Americans than to hold a mega-fundraiser in Las Vegas, that urban personification of understatement, for a guy with millions in hand already and no one to spend it against?

Though the Democratic Senate Majority Leader’s May 26 fundraiser at The Colosseum at Caesars Palace will feature Strip headliner Midler and songstress Crow, the biggest draw will be the Commander-in-Chief himself. …

Well, now that they finished their $357,012 taxpayer-funded photo op over the Statue of Liberty, Air Force One is coming to the capital of neon with the somewhat less-new president, who’ll become the fundraiser-in-chief at least for a night."

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/05/12/obamateurism-of-the-d ay-40/

Obama is Creating Jobs

Obama Jobs Available at May 26, 2009 Democrat fundraiser.

Several hundred-job opportunities are available for the Barack Obama event.

Experienced chanters are needed.

1) 'Yes we can' - experts
2) 'Change we can believe in' - experts
3) 'Hope' - experts
4) 'Yes We Can' - experts
5) 'God Damn America' - experts to assist Mentor Wright.
6) 'Obama is the One' - experts when Obama arrives.

Experienced fainters desperately needed (bring smelling salts).

People to carry water to fainters.

People to assist those experiencing extreme leg shivers and to mop the floor around them.

People to assist those having involuntary orgasms that will not stop. (Bring wipes)

People to hand out 'Save The Planet' tire gauges.

People to hand out 'Obama Current Truth Flyers' as Obama changes solutions.


Apply for employment today!

Para hablar en Espanol Oprime el Numero Uno

Press 2 For English

NOTE: Ask for your free video on how to be a ‘Believer Follower’ of Obama, instead of just a voter for Obama.

Socialism is a proven loser
Of course socialism is a dead end. It punishes those who work the hardest and take risks through punitive tax rates. And to morally justify the exhorbitant tax rates, they must demonize the successful by portraying them as greedy and criminal.

And on the other end, you have the dimwitted loafers. The Left convinces these people that they're not failures because of their own bad decisions and slothful habits...but because they've been cheated and victimized...once again giving them the moral high ground and a moral pretext for punishing the greedy successful.

Works like a charm too. The only downside is that you destroy your economy over time and wind up with fewer and fewer producers...and more and more angry parasites with a sense of entitltement.

You want proof? Look at Europe. What they have is economically unsustainable...it's just a matter of time before the socialist ponzi scheme collapses.

talent scout: Yes. will is our resident

depraved pervert...



Isaiah

Care to share with us what you are talking about?

Sort of difficult to interpret "Some of the quotes have been debunked."

Who, what, when and where are the quotes you are talking about?

Anne & ts
will too reminds me of the toad-faced Egyptian bisexual paedophile murderer (who deservedly died of AIDS in 2004) in a way; as he could only answer every question from Ed Bradley (in 1982) with the lie of being "the elected representative of 'Palestinians'", so too will cannot answer except in gomorrahite style.

SFA 1973
Awwwww, thank you so much for pointing out the lack of my spell chk. tho I did apply the spell chk. it must have malfunctiond somehow. but thank you anyway

Look
"Look at Europe", said JohnR22.
My bet is johnR22 looks at Detroit, too, and sees the devestation resulting from liberal and socialist polcies.
Right, John??...
Good post from you, by the way...