Last December, the House Oversight and House Judiciary Committees conducted a transcribed interview with Carol Fox, an Americore Health trustee for their bankruptcy proceedings. On Wednesday, the transcript became publicly available, with a common theme pointing to questions and concerns with President Joe Biden's brother, James Biden.
🚨PRESS RELEASE: Oversight and Judiciary Committees Release Carol Fox Transcript https://t.co/CPNfh2bnYi— Oversight Committee (@GOPoversight) February 7, 2024
Americore Health, which James was somehow involved in, was a firm going through financial difficulties that had declared bankruptcy on December 31, 2019. Early on in the interview, Fox noted that "Americore had kind of a troubled business model." Fox filed a lawsuit against James Biden on July 7, 2022 to recover money that Ameriocore paid him.
Fox revealed she didn't even know what James Biden's role at Americore even was. A business card of his referred to him as "Principal."
During the interview, Fox read from Exhibit B that "Debtors even provided Defendant with business cards reflecting his position as a 'Principal' with Americore Health to assist his financing efforts. A redacted copy of the Defendant's business card is attached as Exhibit B. As a result, Defendant became a fiduciary to Americore Health," as she also confirmed that the Defendant is James Biden. Fox also later explained that "[w]hen somebody holds them out as a principal of a business, like an officer of a business, they have an implied fiduciary obligation to that business."
As the transcript revealed:
Q. What was James Biden's role at Americore?
A. I don't think we know.
Q. When you say you don't know, can you expand on that a little bit?
A. Well, we have what his business card says he does, but in as far as what he actually did while he was in the company, that preceded my involvement with the company. And so I think we have a business card that says what his stated role was, but what he actually did, I don't know.
Q. As part of being a trustee and filing this lawsuit, did you investigate or take any steps to try and find out what he did at the company?
Q. What did you do?
A. So I do know that, through Mr. Biden's consulting company, Lion Hall, he purportedly provided consulting services to the debtor, or to the debtors. But what those services were, yeah, I don't -- I don't -- I can't say specifically.
Q. Is it fair to say that you weren't able to identify any services that he provided to Americore?
A. Well, that's why I sued him, so --
Q. And just for people who don't understand what a healthcare company is or Americore, like, what type of services would you expect a principal of a company to provide to the company? Like, what are some examples of what a principal -- what you would expect to see if someone was providing or rendering services to a client of that nature?
A. Well, I guess that depends, you know, whether the person is medical versus nonmedical. So I think since we can stipulate that Mr. Biden was nonmedical, we'll go on that track. And so there's a variety of services that he could've provided. He could've provided financial advisory, could've provided some sort of financial services, investment banking.
Q. But you identified none.
A. I did not think that he provided services to the debtors, no.
Fox also read from a complaint filed against James Biden which noted that "By information and belief, Defendant procured the $600,000.00 in loans from Americore Health (the 'Loans') based upon representations that his last name, 'Biden,' could 'open doors' and that he could obtain a large investment from the Middle East based on his political connections," though she couldn't say where the quoted information came from.
As the transcript also noted:
Q. And so, based upon your knowledge, you don't know where this particular statement came from, but you believe there is supporting documents or information that you could provide us at a later date to explain this?
A. To explain the quote, "open doors"?
Q. Where do you think that information comes from?
A. I don't know.
Q. And about the next part, "...and that he could obtain a large investment from the Middle East based on his political connections"?
A. Right. Same thing.
Fox also touched upon bank loans that came from Americore Health to James Biden, in the amount of $400,000 from January 12, 2018. She shared during the interview, however, that she could not find a promissory note or any other form of documentation.
"That's correct," Fox responded upon being asked "there was no documentation that even showed any terms of the loan at all?" She also confirmed she agreed when asked "based upon your expertise in looking at loans, that there usually is, if it's a legitimate loan, a promissory note or something memorializing the terms of the loan to some degree?"
Fox responded in the same way when asked about a loan made on March 12, 2018. "So there was no document referencing a stated interest rate or repayment terms or collateralization," she said about the loan.
On June 4, 2018, there had also been a deposit of $10,000 to James Biden for "Consulting & Marketing -- 2018."
Again, there were issues with a lack of documentation that Fox spoke to, at least as she remembered it. As the transcript revealed:
Q. And so, just to be clear, when it came to consulting and marketing, there was bank records that supported that, but when it came to the loan, there was no promissory note or no other records that showed that there was the loan.
A. There's the same amount of documentation for the consulting and marketing agreement as there is for the loans -- none.
Q. So there was no -- you couldn't find any documentation to support the consulting and marketing services either?
A . There wasn't a consulting agreement that I came across in this litigation.
Q. What about a marketing -- or any type of agreement that reflected payments for marketing?
A. Let me just frame this by saying that there were none that I came across when I filed this lawsuit. He might've -- Mr. Biden might've produced something in mediation that I'm not remembering. But at the time I filed this lawsuit, I hadn't seen a promissory note or a consulting agreement in the documents that were produced in this litigation as of July 7, 2022. I just -- I want to be clear that that could've happened and I might not be remembering it.
Q. So Mr. Biden might've provided something at a later time, but when you reviewed Americore's records at the time that you filed this lawsuit, Americore's records, there was nothing that you reviewed as far as a marketing agreement?
A. Right. I just want to be as honest as possible with you --
A. --and so he might've and I might not remember it. But what you said is correct. At the time I filed this lawsuit, neither a consulting agreement not promissory note for the $400,000 and the $200,000 loans existed.
President Joe Biden was also referenced during the interview. On March 1, 2018, Sarah and James Biden signed a check to Joe Biden for $200,000, with the "For" column reading "loan repayment." This came on the same day as Americore Health gave a $200,000 loan to James Biden.
Fox revealed that "I saw it today for the very first time," speaking about the check that was part of Exhibit 2. She also shared "I did not" when asked "[i]n your review of the materials related to James Biden and Americore, did you see anything where James Biden informed Americore that he was going to take the $200,000 that was purportedly a loan and give it to Joe Biden?"
She also confirmed that the check "would be the same amount date, and -- that you allege in the lawsuit as a fraudulent transfer."
Americore Health being "a red flag" also came up:
Q. Is it a red flag to you that Americore was undergoing financial hardships and was giving $600,000 in loans to someone who's acting in a fiduciary role? This isn't a company where they are making tons of money and they're trying to recruit the best talent, and so they're bringing him in and giving him this big loan to go buy a home or something to recruit them in. This is a company, at the time, that's undergoing some significant financial hardship and then giving $600,000 in loans. I mean, is that a red flag to you?
A. Hundred percent agree with you. That's why I filed the lawsuit.
Q. And there's, just to be clear, there's no documentation, there's no emails or anything that you're aware of -- that you can recall, of course -- that -- where James Biden said that he was repaying a loan with this loan?
A. Right. That's correct.
Later during the interview, Fox also discussed how Americore took "ill-advised bridge loans" from Third Friday Management, LLC the same month that James Biden received the first loan from Americore:
Q. Okay. What was the ill-advised bridge loan?
A. It's the loans that were extended from Third Friday -- and we're referring to that as the LP as opposed to the LLC -- the money that Third Friday loaned to the debtors.
Q. Do you know when that loan began?
A. I believe the loans from Third Friday started in 2018.
Q. And in January of 2018 -- so now if we go to paragraph 11 of your complaint.. the first payment to James Biden was in what month and year?
A. It was in January of 2018.
Q. So that is approximately around the same time that Third Friday is beginning to make loans to Americore, correct?
Q. And now if we go to the SEC complaint, exhibit 6, and paragraph 2. . . . And I'll read it to you. "In January 2018, Lewitt used the Fund's assets to make an initial $2 million loan to the Bankrupt Entity." So that would be Americore, correct?
Q. So this same month that Lewitt is making the $2 million loan through the Fund to Americore, that's the same month that James Biden is getting paid the $400,000 purported loan, correct?
When discussing where the loan money came from, Fox described it as a "possibility" that "there could be a money trail where money comes from Third Friday Total Return Fund, which comes from, according to the SEC's complaint, senior citizen investors, to Americore Health, to James Biden." She also described it as a "possibility" when it comes to "if $200,000 of that money is then transferred on to a third party, such as Joe Biden, that could be the source of the money that goes to Joe Biden."
As it was put to her, "[s]o the money that goes to Joe Biden very well could be sourced from senior citizen investors who were investing into Third Friday Total Return Fund." Fox responded that "the money was sourced from one of two places," either "Third Friday Total Return Fund or merchant cash advances."
James Biden himself is set to appear for a closed-door interview on February 21.