The powers that be have had quite the task explaining why it is that even people fully vaccinated need to wear masks indoors again in certain parts of the country.
Drs. Anthony Fauci and Francis Collins, the latter who, as the head of the NIH, is Fauci's boss, took to the Sunday shows to try to explain.
In addition to appearing on "Fox News Sunday," where he promoted the use of children under 12 being masked as "a really smart thing to do" and "a sacrifice worth making," Collins spoke with Jake Tapper on CNN's "State of the Union," where he clarified that asking fully vaccinated people to wear masks is "mostly about protecting the unvaccinated."
Here's how part of the exchange went:
TAPPER: I have to say, there's some confusion out there about the Biden administration and about the CDC's new guidance that vaccinated Americans need to again wear masks indoors in most of the country.
Can you clear this up? Do most vaccinated Americans need to wear masks indoor in order to protect themselves and other vaccinated Americans, or is this primarily about protecting unvaccinated Americans, including children under 12 or people who are refusing to get vaccinated?
F. COLLINS: It's mostly about protecting the unvaccinated. That's where the real serious risks of illness are.
If you're vaccinated right now, your likelihood of getting severely sick is 25-fold reduced. You gave some numbers right before this segment, Jake, about that. The vaccines work extremely well.
But the new news -- and much of this comes from that outbreak in Barnstable County, Massachusetts -- is that vaccinated people are capable of getting the virus in their nose and throat. And they do seem to have high enough levels of virus that they might be contagious, and hence the reason, if you're in a community where this virus is spreading, which is about 75 percent of counties right now, it is prudent to put on a mask even if you're vaccinated just in case you might be somebody who's currently spreading it.
And you don't want to do that to kids under 12 or to some of those other folks who remain unvaccinated. It's just good common sense. I know it has confused everybody because it's a change in direction. But if we can step aside from all of the political assumptions, which really don't fit here, and look at the data, that's the data.
It's worth noting that certain claims, such as those to do with "political assumptions" continue when Dr. Collins knocks "superficial interpretation" as the interview continued:
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TAPPER: Some experts fear that this new mask guidance could actually give the impression that the vaccines don't work.
To be clear, as we have been saying on this show for months, the vaccines work. The vaccines work. But do you worry that these misunderstandings might actually end up discouraging people from getting the vaccine?
F. COLLINS: I do worry that some superficial interpretation of this might lead to that conclusion, which would be absolutely wrong, Jake.
I am encouraged to see that vaccination rates are actually going up now, and not down, but we need to watch that closely. Again, the vaccines are incredibly effective, even against Delta. I'll give you the numbers again. If you're vaccinated now, your chance of getting infected go down by about 3.5-fold. Your chance of even having symptoms from that go down by eightfold.
Your chance of ending up with illness significant enough to be in the hospital goes down 25-fold. That is so fantastically good for any vaccine. We didn't really have a right to dare they would be this good in the real world. And they are even against Delta.
So, if anybody's listening who has been on the fence, it's a tipping point now. Let's really try to get everybody out there and start to be part of the winning team to roll up your sleeves.
Collins would also advocate for businesses requiring proof of vaccines for customers.
"Do you think, as a public health measure, it would be good for more businesses to require vaccine credentials in order to have vaccinated customers," Tapper asked.
Collins not only said "yes," speaking "as a public health person who wants to see this pandemic end," he shared he's "delighted" to see employers asking their staff to be vaccinated.
According to last month's POLITICO-Harvard poll, there is more support among Americans for employees to get vaccinated, or for customers to get vaccinated if they want to board a cruise ship or airplane for instance. But, there is much less support when it comes to requiring customers entering stores or businesses to be vaccinated.
Fauci, meanwhile, appeared on CBS' "Face the Nation" to discuss the matter with host John Dickerson. The two emphasized that no vaccine is completely perfect, and so breakthrough infections will occur.
The level of the Delta variant of the virus in those who have been vaccinated, Fauci explained, is high enough so that the vaccinated people with it can spread it to others. He called it "troublesome" when sharing that "the potential for transmission is there."
As the conversation continued with:
JOHN DICKERSON: And that's why the mask guidance for those who have already been vaccinated, because there are these cases in which it's possible to spread.
ANTHONY FAUCI: Right. I mean, the-- the situation is that if you get breakthrough infections in-- in individuals who are vaccinated and they don't spread at all to anybody else, then you would not worry about if they went home to a vulnerable person in the household, children or an elderly person, there wouldn't be any issue. But since we know now that (a) they can transmit when they get breakthrough infections, even though, they have minimal symptoms or no symptoms, we know they can do it. We know the mechanistic reason for it is that the level of virus is high. So you want to make sure they don't get infected. And that's the reason why. And the fundamental basis for the CDC modifying their guidelines and saying, now, if you're in an area of a high or substantial trend-- level of virus, namely a red or an orange zone, you-- when you are in an indoor public setting, you need to wear a mask. That's the fundamental reason for that change.
On when it comes to vaccines working, Fauci had this to say:
JOHN DICKERSON: Looking at the Massachusetts-- the Provincetown study that was a part of this mask guidance, we've talked about the ability to transmit among those who are already vaccinated. But it looks like the story of that study could also be the vaccines work.
ANTHONY FAUCI: Oh, absolutely. I mean it's understandable how there could be kind of a dual or a mixed message from that study, but the predominant message is that if you are vaccinated and you get a breakthrough infec-- first of all, if you're vaccinated, you're much, much more protected against getting infected than an unvaccinated, who is completely vulnerable. So you have a degree of protection against infection. But the critical issue, John, is that if you do get infected, the likelihood of your getting a severe outcome of the infection is very low. It is much more likely that you will be either without symptoms or minimally symptomatic. So the vaccine is doing what you want it to do. It's protecting people from getting sick.
Fortunately, Dickerson also spoke with Dr. Scott Gottlieb, who served as the FDA commissioner under the Trump administration and who seemed to have a much easier time with providing easy to understand answers. Here's what he had to say:
...We know that there is more people with this Delta variant who've been vaccinated who are probably spreading the infection, but it's still a very small percentage of people who are becoming infected after vaccination and who then are going on to spread the infection to others. Remember, the original premise behind these vaccines were that they would substantially reduce the risk of death and severe disease and hospitalization. And that was the data that came out of the initial clinical trials. That premise is still fully intact. We still see that these vaccines are doing a very good job preventing symptomatic disease, preventing hospitalization and death. The second premise around these vaccines is that they would reduce the incidence of infection, any infection, including asymptomatic infection, and they can also reduce the risk of transmission. And therefore, they would be an important public health tool at effectively ending the epidemic, the pandemic, because they would prevent people from transmitting the virus. That premise is still intact. But what we see with the Delta variant is it's diminished. There is more evidence that people are likely to spread the Delta variant even after vaccination than they were likely to spread the other variants. But it's still a very small percentage of people. But we need to recognize, especially for vaccinated people who might be in contact with young children, with elderly individuals who are at risk, that there is a risk that they could develop a mild or asymptomatic infection and go on to spread it to others.
The vaccines are still authorized under emergency use, which may explain some vaccine hesitancy.
There was also, unfortunately, no discussion about the need for booster vaccines with Drs. Fauci and Collins, and as to if getting a booster would mean fully vaccinated people don't have to wear masks anymore.
News coverage shows that opinions are mixed, with that perhaps best being summarized by Maria Cramer and Jenny Gross' July 29 report for The New York Times that "Some Are Chasing Extra Vaccine Shots, While Scientists Debate."
Gottlieb had come out in support for "speed[ing] up... thinking" on boosters when it comes to "the elderly and the vulnerable population," though he noted the vaccines are as of right now still effective.
It is worth emphasizing that breakthrough infections among the vaccinated are rare, as is it that they will spread the virus onto others. Even this panic porn piece for The New York Times by Apoorva Mandavilli admits as much.
