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Tuesday, June 10, 2008
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Cocky Ignorance
by Thomas Sowell
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Now that Senator Barack Obama has become the Democrats' nominee for President of the United States, to the cheers of the media at home and abroad, he has written a letter to the Secretary of Defense, in a tone as if he is already President, addressing one of his subordinates.

The letter ends: "I look forward to your swift response."

With wars going on in both Iraq and Afghanistan, a Secretary of Defense might have some other things to look after, before making a "swift response" to a political candidate.

Because of the widely publicized statistic that suicide rates among American troops have gone up, Senator Obama says he wants the Secretary of Defense to tell him, swiftly:

"What changes will you make to provide our soldiers in theater with real access to mental health care?"

"What training has the Pentagon provided our medical professionals in theater to recognize who might be at risk of committing suicide?"

"What assistance are you providing families here at home to recognize the risk factors for suicide, so that they may help our service members get the assistance they need?"

"What programs has the Pentagon implemented to help reduce the stigma attached to mental health concerns so that service members are more likely to seek appropriate care?"

All this sounds very plausible, as so many other things that Senator Obama says sound plausible. But, like so many of those other things, it will not stand up under scrutiny.

What has been widely publicized in the media is that suicides among American troops have gone up. What has not been widely publicized is that this higher suicide rate is still not as high as the suicide rate among demographically comparable civilians.

No one needs to be reminded that suicide is a serious matter, whether among soldiers or civilians. But the media have managed to create the impression that it is military service overseas which is the cause of suicides among American troops, when civilians of the same ages and other demographic characteristics are committing suicide at an even higher rate at home.

Moreover, this is not the first time that military service overseas has been portrayed in the media as the cause of problems that are worse in the civilian population at home.

The New York Times led the way in making homicides committed by returning military veterans a front page story, blaming this on "combat trauma and the stress of deployment." Yet the New York Post showed that the homicide rate among returning veterans is a fraction of the homicide rate among demographically comparable civilians.

In other words, if military veterans are not completely immune to the problems found among civilians at home, then the veterans' problems are to be blamed on military service-- at least by the mainstream media.

Does Senator Obama know how the rate of suicides or homicides among military veterans compares to the rate of suicides or homicides among their civilian counterparts? Do the facts matter to him, as compared to an opportunity to score political points?

Perhaps even more important, do the media even care whether Senator Obama knows what he is talking about? Or is the symbolism of "the first black President" paramount, even if that means a President with cocky ignorance at a time of national danger?

The media have been crucial to Barack Obama's whole candidacy. His only achievements of national significance in his entire career have been media achievements and rhetorical achievements.

Perhaps his greatest achievement has been running as a candidate with an image wholly incompatible with what he has actually been doing for decades. This man who is now supposedly going to "unite" us has for years worked hand in glove, and contributed both his own money and the taxpayers' money, to people who have sought to divide us in the most crude demagogic ways.

With all his expressed concern about the war in Iraq, he has not set foot in Iraq for more than two years-- including the very years when progress has been made against the terrorists there.

You don't need to know the facts when you have cocky ignorance and the media behind you.

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About The Author
Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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No logic
So folks who want to address a problem such as soldiers committing suicide shouldn't try to make any headway because they can't save all the civilians who are committing suicide? That makes no sense.

Why did the following paragraph appear in your writing? How does that fit in with the suicide? Who are the people who Obama has supported that seek "to divide us in the most crude demogogic ways"?

//This man who is now supposedly going to "unite" us has for years worked hand in glove, and contributed both his own money and the taxpayers' money, to people who have sought to divide us in the most crude demagogic ways. //


Next President
NEXT PRESIDENT

By Joe Hernandez



The presidential race is on
The parties have spoken
The primaries are now gone
The democratic party seems broken

Who will it be among the two ?
Obama to the left or McCain to the right?
Which of these men will lead America through?
Who do we believe can carry Americas fight?

We must all take a stand and vote
We do not have the luxury not to
We must listen and take note
And exercise our vote to renew

Careful of what the media informs you
Forget what the politicians promise
Iran is the real threat known only to a few
The rest of us are doubting thomas

Iran is on the verge of having a nuclear bomb
Our options are beginning to get smaller
The Middle East can become our next Vietnam
Unless we have the courage to become Iran's mauler

Nothing else in the world will matter
If Iran develops the nuclear bomb
Terrorist will be free to scatter
Carrying out the orders of a dead Saddam




Obama will try to reach out and talk
But McCain will force their hand
Obama will balk at being a hawk
McCain understand that we need to take command

The window of opportunity is now
We cannot afford to miss this moment in history
With Obama's lack of experience and know-how
Dealing with terrorist states to him is a mystery

McCain understands what is at stake
He has proven that through the years
He calls a snake a snake
And does so without any fears

The choice before us is clear
Of this there can be no doubt
McCain has the experience to persevere
And to deal with our enemies with clout

To Captain
Your Hitler analogy is offensive and makes no sense. Hitler was a murderous dictator who wrote Mien Kampf. Obama wrote Dreams from My Father and The Audacity of Hope. Obama, just as others before, worked within the existing political system to become a state senator, a U.S. senator and possibly the next president of the United States. Unlike Hitler, he has never advocated racial superiority or the extermination of others. Futhermore, as a black man in a country with a history of slavery and racial conflict he has broken barriers through the rhetoric of racial concilliation and a rejection of identity politics. Hitler, on the other hand rose to power through German nationalism and identity grievance. Obviously, you have a shallow understanding of world history.

As for your other comments, they are no more than Republican talking points. As a conservative, you should welcome Senator Obama's fundraising prowess because it is a perfect example of why public financing of elections is unnecessary. The man wants to win and he is using every tool he has to his advantage. I would expect no less from Senator McCain as well. Indeed, the Republican nominee has changed his mind on a number of issues in the pursuit of victory. This change of course by both men during the campaign does not make them "Hitler" as you have suggested. It just makes them politicians who are trying to win in November.

To Bonnie
Success by itself is not sufficient. Hitler was successful in obtaining political power. Great rhetoric is not enough - Hitler was good at that also. I am not comparing Obama to Hitler, just pointing out the flaw in your reasoning.

Obama talks a good game but he is not following his own message. Most recent example: for months he has promised to finance his campaign with public money which is provided to keep campaigns clean and fair - now he has gone back on his word. He is beginning to change positions way too often, not because of changing situations but because of self interest.

He is chairman of an important Senate committee on the middle east and has not held one meeting. He has accomplished nothing of real value but he has demonstrated what a great traditional politician he is. He has demonstrated an alarming ignorance of international affairs. And he has demonstrated amazing arrogance for someone with so little experience and accomplishment.

However, he will probably get elected and our country will suffer substantially. He will make Jimmy Carter look like a great president.

Dr. Sowell
I don't deny Dr. Sowewll's academic credentials at all, however his criticisms of Senator Obama is nothing more than hysteria and willful ignorance. The way he and other so-called black conservatives consistently put down their own race is a digrace to the human race. Here is man, Barack Obama, who is the embodiment of family values and intellectual excellence. Moreover, the fact that Senator Obama was just an unkown state legislator four years ago and has now won the Democratic nomination is an amazing acheivement in and of itself regardless of his race. This must be recognized regardless of one's political views or personal philosophy. Indeed, I would think a conservsative would welcome this achievement as evidence that any person can reach for their goals notwithstanding their background. Senator Obama is the poster child against black victimization that conservatives always rail against. Therefore, the hostility against Senator Obama's success is at best perplexing and at worst hypocritical.

Dr. Sowell
Dr. Sowell is an accomplished author on politics, economics and race. He speaks German, French and English. His thinking is not guided by the color of ones skin but by the efficacy of ones philosophy and the facts.
TPaine

once again

BO stinks!

To: VLADWE
Vladwe, get a grip, will you? I know this is serious business. Your hysteria doesn't scare me. This country is in desperate need for a new direction, and I have no doubt that Sen. Obama can lead the way to a better future for this country. The politics of fear won't work this time. It was Benjamin Franklin who said that a country who would give up his freedom for security deserve neither.

to Bonnie
...an "Outstanding President"? You are not even being funny. Obama has a personality disorder - a quasi-pathological need to have an other identity than his own. He has all his adult life been atracted to evil and mendacious people like Ayers/Dohrn, Wright (very wrong!) and that sick German priest Pfleger (the word means: one who cares for others. Like h.ll he does!) And the person with the brains that actively sought that company will make an "outstanding president"? Then again, maybe you are right: and Outstanding prez, meaning one that will ruin the only hope the western world has. Bonnie: this is serious business. No joke and no game. Look into the mirror, look at your loved ones - and vote McCain. Or better still:

Senator Obama
Dr. Sowell, I'm certainly not surprised that you and the other older black conservatives are viciously attacking Sen.Obama. You guys just can't stand the thought of a black man being President of the United States. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that you are staunch defender and supporter of white male supremacy. Stop being so jealous of Sen. Obama. He'll make an outstanding president.

Cocky Ignorance
Obama asks what the Def. Dept is going to do about the welfare and mental needs of our soldiers. I ask what has he done?? He and his colleagues have dummied down our school systems in exchange for tweeking our students (many who are now in the military instead of school)self-esteem. Give them a 'feel good about yourself' approach and a 'if it feels good do it' mentality instead of building up thier character so they understand better what they are in the militiary for and why!! Obama and those like him are always the first to cry protect me but he's not going to support them to do so...Today the house is supposed to be voting on a bill to give more money to our military and our troops as well as tax cuts to our small businesses yet only for a price..their favors must be met b/4 he/they will ok a bill ot spend our taxes on our troops....pitifull

suicide is not important
like most other problems that afflict males at a significantly higher rate that females.

According to the CDC 85% of suicides are committed by males.

Let's move onto something important like the potential health effects of nail polish and how the industrial complex deliberately holds back nail polish formulas that are safer, and how the cosmetic industry exploits women by price gouging, and how society's objectification of women forces them to doll-up. Now those are important topics!

Campaign money not needed...
Obama is the American Media's candidate he need not spend one red cent on his campaign.

Glowing and flowery language is used to bolster support for him in most print media. Softball interviews and excuses for inexcusable 20-year relationships abound. His stand on abortion and homosexual marriages is being sugar coated to the point that many of his supporters don't really know that he's FOR unfettered access to abortions by their teenage daughters and "civil unions" that look just like their real marriage-barring nothing except the title "marriage"- which he states is a term for which government has no use.

This is getting scary folk. He could be the next president. But those who lust after him don't even WANT to know the truth about him.

Misses the point...
We don't pay soldiers to commit suicide, we pay them to win wars. If the suicide rate among soldiers rises, then yes - that's cause for concern, and it needs to be addressed.The civilian suicide rate is completely irrelevant in this regard, civilians are not trained to cope with the hardships of war, but soldiers are.So Sowell doesn't like Obama, alright we get it - but he should leave the military out of it.

What is McCain doing for flood victims
Not only is the Obama campaign helping to raise money for the relief effort, the websites Community Blogs are providing information on where volunteers who live in or near the affected areas are needed to assist local residents in building sandbag levees to protect peoples' homes. They had specific information on what towns needed help and where volunteers should go to offer their help. This included an appeal for volunteers to bring cold bottled water for the folks working at sandbagging - it is grueling hard work and the floods have contaminated many of the local water supplies

Mental Illness ?

We have challenged that Obama needs to "have his head checked" since the beginning of his campaign.

A guy who runs the streets of Chi-town with some of Americas sworn enemies should be deemed incorrigible.

Obama's Performances
Obama's performances remind me a Broadway musical. He is the star of "The Wizardry of O". He is a wonderful actor. His character is believable and convincing. His lines are the same in every performance and his delivery is spot on. He is even a good dancer - he is so nimble in dancing around real issues. The audience is in love with the sing-song quality of O's voice. In his "show" there is always a happy ending as long as you believe (in him). When the show ends, people walk away and talk about how great the show was and how they can't wait to see it again. The critics (mainstream media) have given O rave reviews. Personally, being fickle, I'm tired of the "The Wizardry of O". I have the audacity of hope that others will "look behind the curtain" to see the truth of O's inability to lead the American people and this great country as our next President.

BHO----The Stealth Candidate
We don't know much about this guy, although we should be able to tell a lot about him on the basis of his radical friends and his radical church. If that's not enough, the many issues that Barack Hussein feels uncomfortable talking about are dismissed as being "distractions." This is a haughty, arrogant man who has been given far too much praise for his intellect. He is gaffe-prone, and the press does not cover it. If he is elected, he will rule the country with all the competence of Jimmy Carter and all the ethics of Bill Clinton. He will treat all who oppose him with all the compassion of Stalin.

The color barier-
When the Dem campaign started I came to believe that Obama was probably going to be the Dem nonomie and probablly become the next president. He had style, class, spoke with eliquence, but after a while you realized he never really said anything in his speeches. The nail that finished it off was the fact that for 20 years anyone could listen to the rants of his so called preacher. That old saying the people you hang around with tell a lot about your character. Case closed!

Democrats solve Global Warming!
Democratic genius Dennis Kuchinich and other intellectual Democrats have found the answer to Global Warming.

Future Secretary of Commerce Maxine Waters was explaining why NASA should land the 'Sun Lander' at NIGHT to avoid heat damage to the lander.

A common epiphany occured involving Maxine Waters, Dennis Kuchinich, Barney Frank, John Murtha and William Jefferson.

They said all of the sudden we realized what is causing 'Global Warming' at the same time!

DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME!

"Adding more hours of sunlight during the summer afternoons", a spokesman for the group said "is the obvious culprit".

The five congresspersons declared they would wear only 'Speedos' publicly until Al Gore acknowledges their momentous discovery.

A spokesman for Al Gore said "Mr Gore is in a bitter dispute involving his claim of inventing the wheel with Louis Farrakhan who claims space aliens created the 'Mother Wheel' and may not have time to comment on the discovery."

The 'Speedo' five will appear 'Speedo' clad til all congresspeople join in solidarity by wearing 'Speedos' - Harry Reid is expected to wear a 'Speedo' immediately.

The bill will be entitled "Stop Global Warming by Eliminating Extra Hours of Sunshine" sponsored by all intellectuals in the Democratic Party.

Call your congresspersons today!

Join the fight against Global Warming - wear your 'Speedo' everywhwere in solidarity with the 'Speedo Five'!

Insulting
If I know our soldiers, they are going to take this as an insult. Most of them consider suicide a weak, cowardly act. To insinuate that they need the govt to protect them from themselves is not going to sit well with them.

Neocon Conspiracy
When is someone going to expose the global neocon conspiracy to get "The Barry" elected?

It's as plain as the nose on your face. They have chosen to have a weak dolt who has done little more in his life than learn not so speak ebonics elected president of the US.

Why may you ask? Why to ensure another century or two of white domination after "The Barry" runs the country into the ground and they pull it from the ashes. It's a conspiracy I tell ya.

Cocky Barako
This cocky abomination has rich liberals coaching him.Their goal is to destroy our country to fill their pockets some more.

THIS COUNTRY'S GETTING WHAT IT DESERVES
Ignorance - That's why Barack Obama is on the verge of being elected President. More ignorant people are in a position to vote than ever before. Led around by agenda-driven media like mice after cheese. The situation has been magnified by the fact that the Republicans either can't lead, or don't have the backbone to do so. Casual analysis also shows that with only a few exceptions, there's not a dime's worth of difference between the career polititians of either party as evidenced by the Republican RINO nominee siding with his "drill nothing" colleagues in the House. It is what it is. It's time for conservatives who care about their country to originate another party.

Cocky Empty Suit
It is his attitude and his liberal friendships that made him so apealing to the greater machine behind his consideration for the candidacy in the primaries. I think he has achieved more in actually getting the nomination,which has left his machine backers in a lurch. They were not prepared to deal with his personality and the gaffes he is prone to make.

They are regrouping and winging it. Now would and is the perfect time for McCain and all of the GOP to attack quickly and furiously

Did Obama ever consider that...
I am not a mental health professional but as the father of a recently returned Army Reservist from Iraq, I have to wonder. My son is 23 years old and in excellent helath - thank God. But what if he concerned us with severe depression, talk of suicide, etc. Of course we would find any (Army, veterans, or private) help we could. Could I force him to go to doctor appointments? I could not overpower him into the car. Wouldn't that be kidnapping? Could a hospital come and get him by force? Would a judge make me a legal guardian? That legal process could take months and never happen if he fought it. If fully functioning young people who attend college classes, have jobs and perhaps wives and families be taken by force from their homes and treated in metal hospitals because some military doctor thinks they may be a risk to themselves or others? What if he/she has a slightly disfunctional family who does not even notice his depression? Sorry, Mr Obama, not all problems are solvable. War is hell.

Further correction
The RAW Numbers explained;


RAW NUMBERS. ALL MILITARY! NOT JUST IRAQ VETRANS!

2006 102 suicides
2007 115 suicides

That is an overall increase of 12.7%
Math Lesson 12.7 IS NOT 90.

The reason for the 137 figure is National Guard was included in that figure which was not tracked before, nor is it included in the 102 figure for 2006.

National Guard Suicides for 2007 is 22.

jd

Sowell's Sorry Ignorance
Thomas Sowell has revealed his own sloppy ignorance in his attack on Obama's inquiry to the Secretary of Defense concerning U.S. military suicide rates, even putting down Obama's addressing his letter to the Secretary requesting a "swift response." Any citizen has the right to send such a letter. Even in Obama's case, an aide to the Secretary will prepare a response and the Secretary may or may not personally sign it. But worse, in attacking Obama's questions, which derive from the Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) crisis that has reached an epidemic level among soldiers deployed to combat operations in Afghanistan and Iraq, Sowell misses the general mental health issue set forth in Obama's first question, so he can he can denigrate Obama's inquiry as vacuously ignorant, based on Sowell's irrelevant demographic data comparison he contrives to make between soldiers and civilians. Obama's concern is with the mental health of U.S. soldiers, who are committing suicide in the combat zone as well as on returning home at alarming rates; and in addition, discharged veterans are claiming permanent mental health disabilites with the Veterans Administration at alarming rates, plus thousands are living as homeless street people in the U.S. and Canada. The problem is enormous in the loss of lives and in the continuing social and fiscal costs. Since the all-professional military was formed in 1972 as the solution to permanent military force preparedness, for the first time the mental health of combat troops has become a major, multifaceted issue that itself has become a threat to the national security of the nation. Sowell's sorry attempt to put down Obama's concern about this issue is itself a sign of his own sloppy ignorance. Hopefully Sowell will learn his lesson that mediocrity ought not try to compete on the same level with genius.

Correction
2007 137 suicides

Not 127

12.7 is still the increase!
I misstyped 127 vs. 137.
jd

Bryce
It matters not how fast or slow you quote inaccurate statistics!

It matters not how fast or slow you tell a lie.

The truth exists independant of your personal opinion and the increase was 13% one 90%

You are so totally a liar as well.

RAW NUMBERS. ALL MILITARY! NOT JUST IRAQ VETRANS!

2006 102 suicides
2007 127 suicides

That is an overall increase of 12.7%
Math Lesson 12.7 IS NOT 90.
Math is Math!

jd

deal with it
Now I get it. White people can't stand an "uppity" negro. Here is my advice to you- face head-on your inherently predjudiced attitudes. You cannot conquer that which you do not confront.(Joyce Meyer)

Subject: Typical Right-Wing Rhetoric
"Any objective observer...will concede that the current President...and the current VP...would be better suited for any article that discusses the attributes of cockiness and ignorance."

BigFred, if I'm not mistaken, this article is not about the current President nor Vice President, but is rather about the Democrat presidential hopeful, about whom the liberal media is reluctant to write anything negative. I seem to recall, however, that the liberal media has been very prolific in the number of articles written about the "ignorant" current President and "cocky" Vice President. I would think that Dr. Sowell is simply trying to shine some light on an area the liberal media would never touch.

Kudos, Dr. Sowell!

Typical Right-Wing Rhetoric
While I don't agree with all of Obama's positions, I don't think the Republicans currently have much to stand on. Any objective observer, (which there are not many posting on townhall) will concede that the current President (who is definitely ignorant) and the current VP (who is far more cocky than Mr. Obama will ever be) would be better suited for any article that discusses the attributes of cockiness and ignorance.

Pappy Michael
My numbers come from the source material, the Center for Diesease Control web site, and the Army Behavioral Health web site.

Once again JD
I'll say it slowly.

In 2001 the military rate was 10 per 100k, as of 2007 the rate was 19 per 100k. That is an increase of 90%.

In 2001 the civilian rate was 20 per 100k, as of 2007 the rate was 22 per 100k. That is and increase of 10%.

If you are calling me a liar because I originally said 10 fold instead of 9, you are rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. At nine or ten times the rate of civilian increase, this is an alarming trend.

Sen. Obama & the North American Union?
Barack Obama YOU HAVE SAID NOTHING about the N A U (SPP.GOV). You MUST know this “business deal” was done by Pres. Bush with his friend, confidant & past Pres. of Mexico, V. Fox. This quietly done "deal" was ORALLY solidified at the Bush ranch. It was never debated by the legislature or told to American citizens. We now see plans for a Super Highway, where thousands of acres of tax payer property will be confiscated through (the Kelo vs New London Court rule) eminent domain process. PRIVATE PROPERTY IS CENTRAL TO THE FREEDOM AMERICANS ENJOY. The N A U- “NAFTA Super Highway” deal negates this basic, American right to own, retain, safeguard and preserve property owned by families, in many cases, for generations. The NAU, surreptitiously done by President Bush in 2005, with NO debate or vetting by the legislature, completely disenfranchised Americans of any knowledge of or say in the matter. It is the equal of a virtual coup in surrendering U.S. sovereignty to a trilateral entity that, in the form of a N A U, could equal the European Union that dictates to the citizens of 27 European states. Senator, you need to tell American your position on preserving U.S. Sovereignty. The N.A.U., if actively denounced in your campaign, could win you the presidency. Your opponents have never talked of this vital issue - - meanwhile the Bush admin. is proceeding as thought this private scheme is a “done deal”. American is watching, listening & waiting to see how you stand on this critical matter. P.S. House Concurrent Resolution 40 states Congressional DISAPPROVAL of the NAFTA Highway & N A U. You are NOT among the 48 COSPONSORS of the bill. Why? Ron Paul introduced H.R. 5191, prohibiting use of federal funds for N A U highway projects. Back this bill & show you support the sovereignty, independence & freedom of America.

bryce

Just a little advice, don't believe statistics that are found in the magazines you like to read. Editors often trim the words (and numbers) to fit their agenda.

I look forward to...
...Obama's swift defeat.

kimberly
... and furthermore, your stupid Demoncrap lefty liberal lugnut lunatics kiboshed any bill that would give the supplies needed to the troops - Bush tried, but Pelousy and Raid and their companion ilk saw to it that all THOSE bills got gutted! So much for CONGRESS being on the side of the military.

Give it up!

kimberly
said:
"Here at TH I read not outrage over the lack of proper equipment and care for the wounded, but rather outrageous belittling of the facts that would show the man who led us to war on lies was also not supporting those he sent in to fight for his lies. Instead of outrage that our soldiers were not properly protected, we heard the likes of Malkin claiming that protective gear was "too bulky" for the soldiers to wear."

To which I say: GET A LIFE KIMBERLY, OR BETTER YET, GET A BRAIN!!!! YOUR BELOVED AND FAVORITE WOMANIZING W-MONGER WAS THE ONE WHO CUT THE MILITARY! GET IT THROUGH YOUR ADDLED BRAIN IF YOU CAN ... SIR CLINTOON IS THE ONE WHO LEFT THE MILITARY IN ITS PITIFUL CONDITION!

President Bush has had to try to deal with every stinkin', rotten, lowdown treasonous thing Clinton and his old lady did while in office.

I'm sick of you and your stupidity! Go over to DailyKooks or HuffHoPo where I'm sure you're much more appreciated!

Yep, bryce, just in time
to spread more lies

so you say," I never made any of the assertions you credit to me. "

Well then, lets look at post 180, by who? Why it's by you!

begin quote
Here's the thing Joycey
Military and civilian rates have risen and fallen at commiserate rates for decades, including the Vietnam years. Since the present hostilies began the military increase has outstriped the civilian 10 FOLD! There is something unique and very serious going on here.

As to whether government can play a role, the answer is a resounding yes! In Australia and Ireland the gov'ts embarked on an aggressive campaign to combat youth suicide and in the last five years their rates have dropped 50%. It can be done, but not with propagandists like Sowell encouraging the partisans here and elsewhere
end quote

did you see it up there? the 10 Fold?

You lie the, you lie now, like all liberals words have no meaning to you othere than tools to get your way.

The numbers I've given are acruate and you will not find any proof they are not.

You also insist on staying with the scalars because they look like they support your case!

But they are a distortion of the truth.

99 total suicides, yes it's up 13 percent, yes it went to 17.3 per 100,000. But in the end, it is still only 13 additional suicides for a total year.


Where is the dishonesty?
The dishonesty is twofold:
1) The failure to acknowledge that despite being in a war zone with negative support from the New York Times and the major broadcast networks, the military suicide rate is still less than the civilian counterpart. Getting stuck on ''rate of increase'' is a fool's game.
2) The military person upon returning home (and when over there) is subject to slander and libel from the major institutions of ''Higher Learning,'' Code Pink, and other groups. This gross disrespect is a factor in the suicide increase. Let he who is without sin cast he first stone.

Correction
I should have said for nearly 30 years, not over 30 years.

jd I see I got home just in time
To refute your distortions of my posts. I never made any of the assertions you credit to me. Read this carefully.

In 2001 the suicide rate for civilians was 20 per 100k, and according to latest figures from 2006 the rate had increased to 22 per 100k, a rate increase of 10%.

In 2001 the rate for the military, not just Iraq, was 10 per 100k, and according to the latest figures increased to 19 per 100k, a 90% increased.

What is significant is that while the civilian has always been higher, the two rates have increased and decreased at roughly the same levels for over 3 decades. In other words the civilian rate has been consistently double that of the military for over 30 years. Since 2001 that scenario has changed dramatically. The rate of suicides in the military has increased at nearly 10 times the rate as civilians.

Where is the dishonesty?

Followup
Quite simply put, the suicide rate among all military is up slightly. However, among vetrens of Iraq it went from 76 to 99. That increase among the smaller group provides greater scaler numbers (13% increase) than among the entire military. So, of course, the MSM runs with the larger scaler and provides no context.

Now, mind you, this is not so bad as the increase reported by Dishonest Bryce, who has no concept of math in as much as it doesn't matter if you use 500,000 as a baseline, you simply multiply by 5 to get it from the 100,000 baseline - amazing how math works, isn't it Bryce.

Oh yes, Bryce, a TENFOLD increase would have been from 76 to 760. Nothing of the sort happened, so you are totally sitting with egg on your face! Again, you need to take some remidial math.

Anyway the 500,000 figure is approximately how many Iraq vetrans we have. That's where that number comes from. Remember I said approximately, not exactly, so when Bryce says there were 572,274 of them he is not playing a trump card.

So, as I was saying, the hard numbers, do not add up to commiting suicide all over the place, in fact they don't even add up to 1 additional suicide per state. The total is less than 2 per state (I know not very much, but it is still less than 100)

Since Bryce wants to stick to the FACTS, I've given him some facts. And those numbers aren't wrong. They are the ACTUAL NUMBERS!

My own opinion is that the 13 can easily be accounted for by the treatment our soldiers are receiving from the left when they return home. It is upon all of us on the right to make a point to Thank a Soldier whenever, and whereever we run across them.

jd

Razzle Dazzle
Razzle Dazzle, eh? Have you visited my blog to see my parody of the song Razzle Dazzle from CHICAGO? Check it out. It was a while back, but I'm sure you'll find my Obama parodies interesting. Hope you have time to drop by. Leave a comment. THanks.

"Yaco"???
See post at 5:59 PM
-----

What's the matter, Robert?

Did Townhall finally fix the bug that allowed you to re-register as "Robert"?

Why would you further embarrass yourself by continuing to return to a site that has clearly indicated you are unwelcome?

Is your life THAT much without meaning?

Incidentally
Senator Obama is throwing his weight around. Anyone in the Dept of Defense has 48 hours to respond to an inquiry by anyone from Congress.

That's right. 48 hours.

I would say that is 'swift' by any standard.

THis is Barack's SWIFT BOat.

The numbers
sphatick,

The 99 and the 13 are the hard numbers, the 500,000 is an approximate.

Dear Bryce
I notice you insist upon using the scaler rather than the raw numbers (which I provided early on) which shows that you are in face dishonest and insincere in your approach.

Simply put you are no different than someone who says a Baseball Player hitting .650 on the second day of the season deserves a bigger contract.

The increase in raw numbers is 13 additional suicides. 13. Yes that is terrible for 13 families and a tragedy. But it is not a crisis!

It is not something that requires policy change.

It is a small number from a small group which creates a scaler that looks terrible until you see it in full context.

Now, quit trying to tell us how much you care because the truth is you don't.

jd

Again you said it So well
The razzle-dazzle keeps on shining for Obama, it has worked so far with the ignorantly educated. Still it is nice to see not everyone is agog with his rhetoric.

EGO!
Feeling his oats he pens a hasty and letter to the sec. of Def. and indicates a demand for a speedy response he expects. Looks to me he can't wait for his subjects to start bowing down to the demogague... I know I'm ready to bow down and give my very life in service to the mighty obama!! Aren't you?? I just can't wait for him to become president so he can start steering this bad, terrible shameful country to a new healing!! OK everybody chant with me obama cumbaya dali lama black mamba!!! OOH I feel better already!! I gotta admit he's got some huge b@ll$

My dear Dr. Sowell . . .
I see through your subtlety. You want us to assume for a moment that any politician--messianic or non--will be telling us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. While you come from an academic world of facts and researched theories, our political class can only act on what they know: the majority of the public are sheep without a clue, so if you can make it sound good it'll work magic!

Secondly, politicians telling the truth would result in single term conditions and people who have no job skills (other than lobbyists or memoir/expose authors) post-term would create for themselves hardships beyond repair and they would actually have to find real jobs out of office. That would be a travesty because unwary employers would be subjected to half-truths and time away from work while they look for their next public office to escape the real world. Would that be fair putting these "vote whores" out on the street looking for more johns?

I think--at this point in time--we should just send a ton of Mexican tomatoes to the Congressional cafeteria and let nature take its course. That way the BS would be coming out of both ends. And that's the whole truth . . .

TCG
Don't you just love Ray coming out to show his parties true colors? People, its no use to reason with a lunatic!

Yea, I have to say bryce, we are looking at a 10 person increase? maybe 20? seems to me that spending millions on 10 people could be spent better elsewhere. Saving 10 lives in another place. If spent well millions should be able to save much more than 10 lives as well.

We have all been there.
When I became a teacher after working in other fields we had to go through a stand up interview by 3 principals and administrators. Two years later I met one of the administrators that had interviewed me. I told her that she had really grilled me hard and she said that she remembered me well -- that I had had "all the answers". I commented that after two years in the classroom I didn't know everything anymore. Ignorance is bliss. It's a wonder that Obama can stop laughing long enough to read those silly speeches.

Not just suicide stats
but a lot of the stats on the war are self serving. For example, about 20 to 25 percent of the deaths in Iraq would have occurred anyway in normal trading. Duh.

Cocky Ignorance is cute but too soft!
Ignorance is the result of a lack of knowledge and or experience within a given topic.
BO has never served in the military, probably due to cowardice since he is smart enough to recognize words do not stop bullets.
One death is too many, regardless of the cause.
At least BO, with his racist attitude, has not YET tied the suicide rate to racism in the military. I guess he will leave that up to his wife.
I have seen combat and suicide. BO is a jerk for trying to make this a political issue. (He needs to be careful, given the heroic record of McCain as a POW).

Mr. GAtes has...
bryce
Location: MI...

The greatest obstacle to getting "Mental health" treatment for troops in the field and out of it was the security clearance form.

In the past putting on it that one had gotten mental health counselling was kind of a problem.

Mr. Gates and the Chiefs has ended that. Mental health counseling for combat related issues now can be disclosed and "have no affect on the applicants security review process".

The vast number of suicides comes from two reasons...in theatre it is "Dear Jane/John" letters and back home it is people not being able to talk about what they saw to others....

That is a very important need and most back home just dont want to hear it. Indeed some mental health professionals ahve gone back to WWI to try and understand what is going on. There were record number of suicides back home after the war among the "doughboys" because of that very reason.

Robert

Cocky Ignorance
There's a difference between first hand knowledge and cocky ignorance. Mr. B. H. Obama has plenty of cocy ignorance and shows it in a messiah-like fashion where ever he takes the stage. Real knowledge come from experience and honest work. From where I sit, Mr. Obama and his wife, have loads of education and little real life experience, thus the cocky ignorance that makes it alright to belittle this country and all it's men and women in uniform. God Bless america, we're gonna need it. It's sad for me to watch, I gave 26 years of my life in uniform and live with a lifetime disability, for what??

CKHustler
That double standard trips them up every time.

KILLER

.....An old girlfriend of mine once said that she could not live without me and that she would be willing to die for me ...

.....I asked her to prove it and she left me .....COLOSSUS

Mr. Sowell-Honest Man
This is truly a refreshing piece of work Mr. Sowell. American's have turned into babbling idiots in support for Obama just because he is the first black man to win the nomination of a major part. There is nothing wrong with being a black man in any position. This hoopla about being a black man is nothing but hoopla. Most Americans that I know could care less about color. They care more about substance, integrity, character, and abilities. Obama has no substance, integrity, character and his abilities are certainly questionable. His Socialist ideas tell you a lot about him. He has adopted the Marxist Model and working to create Class Warfare. What class does he think he belongs to? If the Class Warfare he seems to promote ever occurred, he would be a target himself. Class is not about color, it is about conditions of wealth. He appears to be rather wealthy thanks to his political contributors who have bought his influence in government, including a hefty 200 thousand dollar pay raise for his wife who works for an establishment who got huge federal grants after Obama became a Senator. Over 300 thousand dollars in salary is quite a lot for a glorified secretary, which is what that U.S. Hating Michelle Obama is. So, Mr. Obama, you need to stop promoting class warfare. Your Harvard Quota Degree, Your White Shirt, and Millions of Dollars in assets makes you one of the Privileged Class which a Class Warfare Scenario would make you the enemy by the have nots that you claim to love and support.

Jerome Ennis in Tuscaloosa, Alabama

Ray the bigoted moron.
Ya know Ray, I don't care what color you are. Your posting is filled with vitriolic ignorance.
In your world, anyone who is against BHO is bad.
If your white, you're a racist. If you're black, you're an Uncle Tom. Why? Why can't people just disagree with BHO as the Democrat nominee? BHO has zero practical experience and says nothing of substance. NOTHING!!! So, Ray, take your bigoted, moronic rantings and find a way to be a productive member of society. Not another divisive distraction to any and all people.

Ditto to That Cocky Ignorant Traitor
Obama is worse than just a cocky and ignorant demagogue. And yes, the sensationalist media with a left wing agenda, have not held him accountable for anything. This man is dangerous. Ignorance can be deadly. The very idea this clown puts questions out there to the Secretary of Defense or anybody else shows his arrogance. But, of course, this is just political posturing that his handlers have directed him to do. As for the military men and women, their problems with suicides, etc. is for the most part, not due to their being in the military or their tours in Iraq. No, their emotional and other growth problems most likely started when they entered the public school system where great emotional and psychological damage is done to youth who go through the process of being brainwashed and dumbed down by a federally mandated system being directed from Washington D.C. The reason for the Columbines, the Virginia Techs, the suicides and homicides all over the country can be put square on the backs of the public school system and the U.S. Congress that has been mandating perversion, political correctness and the dumbing down of America's youth for the past 40 years. It is time that Obama, the impostor, be exposed for what he truly is: Ignorant, Arrogant, and Dangerous. Vote in November Against Not Only Obama, but any and All of His Allies.

Jerome Ennis in Tuscaloosa, Alabama

Ray
That was what I wanted, some nice, well reasoned argument.

Thanks for your contribution.

By the way, anyone else notice that the number of comments continually changes? Last time I looked at the page, they only ran through 12:11, even though it was almost 5 PM. Then they all vanished,t hen they all appeared.

Very strange behavior today. Even for Townhall.

Ray
That was what I wanted, so nice, well reasoned argument.

Thanks for your contribution.

SilenceIs
Actually, I think some of the increase in suicides may be the stress of being away from home for a prolonged time. I bet you would see the same increase in merchant seamen on long trips vs short ones.

Our military still has fewer suicides than comparable civilians, but whenever more troops are deployed away from their family and friends for a prolonged time, I would imagine those predisposed to depression and suicide would do worse.

It doesn't have to be a war, even a lot of peacetime overseas deployments could do it.

Of course, war keeps them from their families the way a peacetime deployment would not,so maybe it is a bit worse.

Still, the total increase when viewed in absolute numbers is much less dramatic than the percentages suggest.

Baron
Just append "?Page=2" by hand to the URL.

Actually, some of the links work, some don't. But you can always add a page number.

Oh, and bloggers, if you have more than 1 page of drafts, just replace the page name from ListPosts (or whatever it is) to Drafts, and you can see the drafts on pages greater than 1.

Ah, Townhall workarounds! I have fewer at my day job than I do when "relaxing" here.

Baron
Just append "?Page=2" by hand to the URL.

Actually, some of the links work, some don't. But you can always add a page number.

Oh, and bloggers, if you have more than 1 page of drafts, just replace the page name from ListPosts (or whatever it is) to Drafts, and you can see the drafts on pages greater than 1.

Ah, Townhall workarounds! I have fewer at my day job than I do when "relaxing" here.

Bryce
While I view Obama's letter as an arrogant political ploy, I view your questions as revealing a real concern. My thoughts why an increase in suicides is a response to the oft repeated slurs on our troops that sap their pride and mock their patriotism. The troops have been referred to as cold blooded murderers, to dumb to be anything else,like those who ran the gulags etc. The bad actors got all the unending publicity for abu graib while those who perform heroically do not get any publicity from the MSM. Who can name the medal of honor winners? What political leaders attended the ceremonies and spoke of their admiration for these heroes. When a senator speaks to the MSM, how often is it to give positive commentary about our brave men and women who serve. I hope we are making efforts to reach out and help those who feel their lives are no longer worth living. Most of us care and our concern is genuine. It is that we understand Obama does not really care but will utilize any means to appear caring as a means of getting votes.

Gil
Maybe some of us vets should see if our uniforms still fit and go ride a subway or two?

Resources for Military Members
For those wondering what resources are available for military members, here is the DoD link http://www.tricare.mil/pressroom/doctor_is_in.aspx?fid=17

Someone alert McCain


This article by Thomas Sowell is a marvel of clear-thinking and wise observation.

McCain needs to read it; on account of what Sowell said, RE: this Bozo dressing down the Defense Secretary before there's even a new Pres. In the matter of the suicides of our guys; McCain has to be ready for the same third degree Obama gives the Secretary. Actually using the same rebuttals here written by Dr. Sowell. He knocked each one for a homer. McCain can also do it at the national level, in the debates upcoming between him & The Siamese Cat Who Walks Like a Man. Show Mac this important article!

Off topic but
And people wonder why I want an automatic death penalty for child murderers

http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8458961

Doc
Ever since they changed the look, it has been having some problems. Also, when a column gets a lot of responses my browser gets really slow. Kills my processor. I want the old scheme back simply because of that! Overall the columns are getting lower responses since the change and I think it is because its hard to scroll, post, do anything on your browser, once a column has 200+ responses.

Harrassment
Military officials in the DC area have been advising servicemembers not to wear their uniforms while commuting on public transportation, This is in response to verbal assaults and threats to those in uniform. Think BO cares about this?

Observation
Obama defenders are becoming rather sparse on these threads. I'm wondering whether that correlates with the passion wearing off.

As for the few defenses of him on this issue, they are pretty darn weak (laughable: at least he CARES...)

One poster made a pretty good attempt by saying 'he sent this letter not as a presidential candidate but as a senator on the armed services committee...'
YEAH RIGHT!
(Would that be the committee he's the chair of but has never convened?)

TH
Really has the gremlins running things today. My post are in the right order, but the post numbers are counting down LOL Heck sometimes with a new post all I get for the whole page is from the check rating box down to the join the debate box, but of course all the ads. LOL I X it out and open a new browser and it seems to be the only way to get the whole page.
Why are Republicans so frugal? LOL

CKHustler
Simply amazing?

Not really with some of them. LOL

TCG/SSGT
Isn't it crazy the racist comments like that coming from the libs around here. I thought they were the tolerant types. They claim our racism is disagreeing with Obama while they call Sowell Uncle Tom for being a conservative. Simply amazing

SSGT sayz:
Its tuff talking to the pup that long.

Not really, unless he starts answering you. LOL
Mrs. Paddy, I am all for free speech, but lib's are always the first to be yelling about racism, and unlike them, I really hate any form of it, so I flagged her old dried up butt too.

American Democrats
Forging the Future by turning warriors into victims.

JMO51
You wrote that "Webbs Bill to provide a GI bill simular to that provided to Vets of WWII. Opposed by John McCain."

If you had actually looked into it, Sen McCain opposed the bill because there is another bill that will be better for vets, by allowing them to transfer some of their benefits to family members.

No one said he wasn't "smart". This is just a political stunt. He's full of those, for someone who vowed to be a different kind of politician.

Doc./TCG
glad to hear that Doc. I was gonna try to catch up with you last night when I got home, but we were getting pounded too. No electricity for 6 1/2 hours. Its tuff talking to the pup that long.

TCG, I am on the same page with you about prudence. Did it right away!

SSGT
Sorry, I would like to say I was busy knocking a couple of libs back to their senses, but that would be a waste of time. Oh well at least there are one or two who come to TH and have reasonable discussions, like bryce.
Hey, thanks for asking, I am just north of there but my boat is ready. lol I used it to help the boy get his G/F and her cat out of a few feet of water. She waited to long to drive out, but it sure came up fast so little choice really. Luckily the water did not end up getting high enough to damage anything.

Constant Gardner
Yes the post is offensive. I think it should stand so that we can uphold that little notion of free speech. She isn't advocating violence or anarchy, so her ignorance should be allowed to stand.

I'd be interested if anyone would defend her comment.

Oh, the irony of Prudence as a 'handle' with that diatribe.

prudence
Come on tell us how you really feel, and then get the he!l out if racism is all you have instead of facts. I would call you a libsquirt, but you are prolly just a dried up old prune.

Doc.
this is the third time that I have tried to get this to you!!! TH, whats going on today?

Doc, I hope that you are not in the path of any of the rains and flooding.

prudence
I have flagged your 2:40 PM post and ask that others do the same. You should exercise some prudence in your speech.

Nice Try Libs
So ends another liberal strawman. Funny how libs will never even broach the subject of combat, military incursions, war, or anything having to do with what is called the Art of War. But the minute someone creates a victim, let the grandstanding begin.

War is hell. Some wars are more brutal than others, but from the prespective of an infantryman, they all suck. Yet, soliders and Marines continue to enlist and re-enlist. Liberals only value the people of the military in as much as they can make victims out of them. Some soliders will survive a tour of combat in Iraq just fine, while an Air Force jet mechanic who spent a year in Afghanistan in an air conditioned base will return and blow his head off. No one is to blame. I had an older brother who survived Vietnam as a Marine (1967-1969), but came back an alcoholic. He worked as a steelworker for 15 years before dieing in a car accident he caused. Some of his freinds said he died long ago in Vietnam -which is pure bs. If he was alive he'd say the same thing. I had relatives in Germany who fought in WWII. The Russian Front would make Fallujah look like live fire manuevers. Yet, none of the few who survived committed suicide. They were to happy to be alive. Some men can take the stress of combat better than others. It all depdends on the individual.

Well, the dems
got defeated, and only one thing right in this windfalltax proposal, the market speculators are the ones who need to be investigated. But they don’t want to get is, we need to open drilling and tear down the walls to increase our own dam capacity!

http://www.townhall.com/news/us/2008/06/10/senate_gop_bloc ks_oil_taxes

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=956&title=Vietn am_Veterans_Against_McCain&vpkey=62acaf320c

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

patriotic
Great article, Dr. Sowell! What the older generation used to call a "know it all" attitude will not get BO elected, regardless of the "packaging."

redeyerex
said:
"Just remember