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Saturday, January 26, 2008
Robert Murphy :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Keynesian Corner
by Robert Murphy
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Last Tuesday the Fed announced a surprise rate cut of 75 basis points, the biggest cut in 24 years.  Even so, the stock market plunged, with the S&P 500 shedding 1.1% during the session, bringing its total losses to over 10% for 2008.

The Fed has now painted itself into a Keynesian corner.  According to old-school Keynesianism, the government faces a Phillips Curve tradeoff.  It can adopt a loose monetary policy, which spurs output but leads to price inflation.  Or, the government can adopt a tight monetary policy, which keeps prices under control but leads to recession.

The sobering experience of the 1970s demonstrated that this Keynesian orthodoxy was nonsense.  Ultimately, printing green pieces of paper doesn’t make a society richer, it just causes prices to rise.  Once citizens adjust to the constant injections of new money, unemployment returns along with massive price hikes.  Thus the term “stagflation”—meaning double-digit rates of unemployment and inflation—was coined.

Yet memories are short.  It has been decades since Paul Volcker took over the helm at the Federal Reserve in 1979 and jacked up interest rates—yielding the painful recession in 1980—to wean the country off of his predecessors’ cheap-money policies.  Since that readjustment, Americans have become used to the new paradigm, where unemployment can safely remain under 5 percent while inflation stays even lower.

Despite this clear-cut lesson, Keynesian thinking permeates the financial press.  Those concerned about recession clamor for aggressive rate cuts, saying that inflation can be handled down the road.  They ignore the fact that once the inflation genie is out of the bottle, it’s very difficult to get it back in again.

We are closer to the dark days of the 1970s than many people realize.  During 2007, consumer price inflation was 4.1 percent, the highest it’s been in 17 years.  The dollar is near record lows against the euro.  Gold and oil prices have set all-time record highs in the past few months.

If the national discussion on monetary policy is bad, the debate over fiscal policy “stimulus” may be even worse.  The politicians and pundits never explain how borrowing money from one group of Americans, in order to give tax rebates to a different group of Americans, is supposed to raise total spending.  Things would be different if the politicians proposed spending cuts to offset the rebates to taxpayers.  But naturally no one proposes such a sensible policy; they want to give us more money to spend, and to spend more money themselves, too.

The truly depressing feature of all the stimulus talk is that even someone as knowledgeable as Treasury Secretary Paulson believes a rebate is only good if the recipients “spend” it, rather than using it to pay down debts.  Here we see the true insidiousness of the Keynesian mindset:  In a time of recession, when we need to tighten our belts, the politicians encourage us to go buy new cars and plasma screen TVs.  The idea seems to be that if we all just ignore the recession, it will get bored and go away.

Those readers who believe in the virtues of hard work and thrift know that this Keynesian mindset must be wrong, but they may have a hard time pinpointing the sleight of hand in the trick.  So let me give a hint:  Whether you spend $500 on music CDs or on bank CDs, that money is still “in the economy.”  Everyone understands how spending money on music boosts employment in that industry, so we don’t need to explain that portion.

But people apparently don’t recognize that when you lend $500 to the bank, you are still contributing to employment and GDP growth.  The bank doesn’t put this money in a tin can under the bed, after all.  No, it lends it out to a business, perhaps, so it can buy a new factory, or it lends it out to a young couple, so they can buy a home.  Rather than output and employment expanding in the music and retail industries, in this scenario jobs are created in the manufacturing or construction industries.

A penny saved is a penny spent, from the viewpoint of the economy as a whole.  Rather than printing up new money through the Federal Reserve, or engaging in shell games with billions of tax dollars, the government should cut its own budget while we ride out the present crisis.

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About The Author

Robert Murphy has a Ph.D. in economics and is the author of The Politically Incorrect Guide to Capitalism (Regnery 2007).

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The real history
quote:
THE POWER ELITE'S USE OF WARS AND CRISES

By Dennis L. Cuddy, Ph.D.
January 28, 2008
NewsWithViews.com

When Congressional Reece Committee research director Norman Dodd's legal assistant Kathryn Casey looked at the planning documents for the founding the Carnegie Endowment, she found something quite revealing. She found that they determined war would be helpful in furthering their objectives. Relevant to this, Rene Wormser in FOUNDATIONS: THEIR POWER AND INFLUENCE (1958) wrote that the head of the endowment, Nicholas Murray Butler used the endowment's funds to get the U.S. into World War I.

The year after the endowment was founded in 1910, Robert Minor's cartoon in the ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH in 1911 depicted members of the power elites (John D. Rockefeller, Andrew Carnegie, J.P Morgan, etc.) welcoming Karl Marx and his "socialism" to Wall Street. The next year Woodrow Wilson ran for president, and his "handler" for the power elite, Colonel Edward M. House, assured his bosses that Wilson would support the Federal Reserve's establishment in 1913.

The year after that (1914), the power elite arranged the first World War long before the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand on June 28 by members of the Narodna Odbrana (Black Hand) secret society.
================= http://www.newswithviews.com/Cuddy/dennis121.htm

For almost 100 years, the destiny of this nation has been in the hands of Central Bankers tied to the U.S./European banking cartel.

So Many People Know Sooooo Much

THAT ISN'T SO!

Firstly, John Maynard Keynes, the Fabian Communist, was a charlatan. His "ideas" have been thoroughly discredited by serious economists. The only people who buy into his buncombe are school teachers, "journalists," and Democrats (read commies.) And don't even get me started on GWB!!!!!!

The word "govern" means to inhibit and control. Who could possibly believe that a government could make positive interventions in an economy without totally screwing it up? Witness the Federal Reserve Board. What a phenomonal cast of over-schooled, under-educated morons!

A governor is something you put on a school bus to keep the speed down. So now we're going to use one to rev up the old bus? Gimme a break! What colossal morons abound here and in the rest of this country.

As long as morons are allowed to vote, they will vote for the most cagey morons amongst them - and THOSE idiots will DESTROY THIS COUNTRY!!!

Like Nock said, I feel like a naked man huddling behind a rock in a hurricane.

Iberian Inflation
"Just look at the effects on the Iberian economy of the sudden vast influx of plundered Aztec and Inca stores of precious metals"

Yes, inflation skyrocketed to around 2% a year, the highest rate ever seen before central banking.

The Federal Reserve is a banking corp.
It DOES run the economy, and unconstitutionally.
And if not for this system there would be no personal income tax.
Which makes them OWN US ( for the dumbed down like Wayfinder)




Without the Federal Reserve System, there would be NO DEBT.
NOR any personal income tax

U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK
The Outstanding Public Debt as of 28 Jan 2008 at 12:10:57 AM GMT is:
9,199,892,863,809.53

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

Goof ball
Wayfinder writes: 5:42 PM

Now, folks like Talent Scout who wear the tin-foil hats think corporations are all about super rich men who own us all. Only if that were the case. It's not a problem with corporations, but a government ran by people who have no idea how wealth is generated, that wealth has value, and that money has no value but what we in the market itself apply to it.
----

Never said that goof ball.


It just goes to show
That you can never rely on government to do anything right. I don't care if it's education, the economy, or even war (frankly, we've been way too nice in this war, far more than even Sun Tzu would've approved of), you can't rely on government to save you or to manage something as complex as an economy.

Now, folks like Talent Scout who wear the tin-foil hats think corporations are all about super rich men who own us all. Only if that were the case. It's not a problem with corporations, but a government ran by people who have no idea how wealth is generated, that wealth has value, and that money has no value but what we in the market itself apply to it. But of course, many of those people do understand that issue, but since they've got their value, their wealth, their decisions do not affect them as they would affect those of use who do not as yet have ours.

Instead of listening to the naysayers, I say just do what you have to do to make yourself financially secure. Individuals, by and large, can manage their own lives without Washington to save them.

Borrower is servant to the lender
Reducing all economics to this basic fact of life will teach us all what the problems are today with the central bank.

The Keynesian monetary system is based in debt, and cannot operate without debt being created.
It does not create wealth except for those at the top, like a pyramid scheme does.

Goods may be created with-in debt, but the simple truth is all working class's must borrow the money from bankers, who profit off the usery of their ability to create fiat paper, which costs them very little.

They end up owning all deeds to property, all titles to auto's and all the gold in Fort Knox.

Which is why America is now the most debter nation on this planet.
Thanks to the crooks at the Federal reserve Banking CORPORATION.

And corporation is exactly what it is.
A private group of super rich men who own us all.
Bodily anyway, not my spirit or soul at least.

My personal economy
Wacky writes: 4:59 AM
Talent Scout
Are you sure you've taken into account that people were not paid as much per year?
--------
ts:
Indeed I have
-----------

Wacky writes:
I remember reading the history books and (because I am a commonwealther) the average wage was something like $217.50 a week (adjusting for inflation.)
----------
ts:
Yes, however the 200 a week paid for all living costs and still paid for a few luxuries.
In fact when I got out of the US Army and married, my wages were not even a 100 a week, yet that paid for all my living costs and I bought a new Pontiac GTO.
That was in the 1960's before Nixon removed gold backing.
-------------
Wacky writes:
The normal wage in my country now is about $800. This makes complete sense, considering the advances in technology that have taken place and greater production capacity of the average worker. If, as you say, the government plays with money, doesn't the money naturally correct itself to how much it can actually purchase? The stock market fluctuations recently are perfect examples of that- in a mixed free market economy, overvalued stocks will become undesirable and lose value.
-----------
ts:
It takes more income today to meet the basic needs, as both husband and wife now work in most families.
This was not the case before the 1970's.
Keynesian economics is destructive for the working class of people.
It benefits bankers and governments only.

First, understand the problem.
Before proposing a solution,
it sure helps to know what the cause of the problem really is.

The cause of ALL our problems since the late 1990s has been: The incompetence of the Federal Reserve.

How many times in the last 100 years has the Federal Reserve allowed a market bubble to continue, get bigger and bigger, and then burst, before halfheartedly taking any action? Three? Four? Five?

Greenspan allowed the "dot.com" bubble to go on despite his better judgment (even he called it "irrational exuberance" but took no action). Then the bubble burst and took the S&P 500 Index down 48%. And then Bernanke, his successor, allowed the real estate/financial bubble to go on till it burst too.

Why do they keep doing this? To cover up the fact that our entire economy is increasingly based on debt--debt owed to ourselves, to the Chinese, etc. The long-term historical average is that some 67% of the economy is consumer spending (as opposed to capital spending). But in the last decade, this has risen to 72% of the economy, financed entirely with debt.

The right answer, in the long run, is to tighten credit requirements, slowly but steadily. And that is going to mean that consumers aren't going to have all these "gotta have it" luxuries like 45 inch plasma TVs and giant SUVs. We really have to start living within our means.

When did conservatism become synonymous with conspicuous consumption anyway?

Talent Scout
Are you sure you've taken into account that people were not paid as much per year?

I remember reading the history books and (because I am a commonwealther) the average wage was something like $217.50 a week (adjusting for inflation.)

The normal wage in my country now is about $800. This makes complete sense, considering the advances in technology that have taken place and greater production capacity of the average worker. If, as you say, the government plays with money, doesn't the money naturally correct itself to how much it can actually purchase? The stock market fluctuations recently are perfect examples of that- in a mixed free market economy, overvalued stocks will become undesirable and lose value.

Yes Doc

(And governments never take control of a country's currency *EXCEPT* to debauch it.)


On the other hand, here is what has happened to the US Dollar since 1913.
Instead of increasing its buying power as it did from 1800 to 1913, it is now worth what a nickel would buy in 1913.

What cost $1.00 in 1913 would cost $20.15 in 2006.

Also, if you were to buy exactly the same products in 2006 and 1913,
they would cost you $1.00 in 2006 and $0.05 in 1913.

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi

A suggestion from Robert Heinlein
--
...who frequently addressed in both his fiction and his expostulatory prose the issues of government and governmental debauchment of the currency.

(And governments never take control of a country's currency *EXCEPT* to debauch it.)

Look at how many hours or minutes it takes for the average competent journeyman carpenter to earn currency enough to purchase a loaf of bread.

That the buying power of the U.S. dollar was greater in 1913 than in 1800 should surprise *NOBODY*.

What should shock and dismay the observer is that the disparity is not *GREATER* in the direction of the 1913 dollar's purchasing power.

Think of all the innovations in productivity and market efficiency gained in the interval between 1800 and 1913, and you'll realize that the value of the 1913 dollar had been plundered by the U.S. government and various banks over and over and over again.

And Republicans did most of it. Consider McKinley and his co-conspirators, and just look into their authorship of the Sherman Silver Purchase Act.

--

Bankers are the problem, not Gold
What cost $1.00 in 1800 would cost $0.57 in 1913.


Also, if you were to buy exactly the same products in 1913 and 1800,
they would cost you $1.00 in 1913 and $1.76 in 1800.

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi

Gold was never the problem, bankers were, they were thieves.
Not a harsh comment, but a factual one.

correction
Anyone think that is wrong check out the buying power of the US Dollar from 1800 to 1913 using the "Inflation Calculator".

The dollar bought twice as much in 1913 than it did in 1800.

Whats wrong with that?
hitchhiker writes:
If currency is only gold, for example, what prevents the rapid increase in the money supply when new deposits are discovered? It doesn't grow on trees, it grows in the ground.
--------------

Nothing wrong with an increase in money supply.
Fact is when gold is scarce its value increase and cost of goods go down, not up.

Anyone think that is wrong check out the buying power of the US Dollar from 1800 top 1913 using the "Inflation Calculator".

The dollar bout twice as much in 1913 than it did in 1800.

Yet there is nothing wrong with an increase in money supply due to the mining of gold.

The problems of early America was counterfeiting and fractional banking, NOT gold.

Hitchhiker - the inflation of currencies
--
...based upon commodities (such as the commonly used "monetary metals" gold and silver) have occurred in history. Just look at the effects on the Iberian economy of the sudden vast influx of plundered Aztec and Inca stores of precious metals - accumulated over centuries of pre-Columbian mining, trade, and taxation - in the 16th Century.

The difference between such spasmodic leaps of inflation and the effectively unbounded propensity of central banks (like the Federal Reserve) to utter fiat currency is that the inflation of commodities-based money supplies is *LIMITED BY PHYSICAL REALITY*.

There is simply not the sort of limitless supply of monetary metals on the planet Earth necessary to support the constant and unremitting inflationary pressure placed upon the U.S. dollar since the Monster From Jeckyll Island strode ashore in 1913.

I remember, back in the late '70s or early '80s, when *60 Minutes* interviewed Lester Thurow (then Dean of MIT's Sloan School of Management) on the subject of currency inflation, and he dismissed the advocates of a gold-based currency by saying that it left the Soviet Union (one of the world's great operators of gold mines as part of the Gulag Archipelago) in a position to "dump" their huge gold reserves on the world market in a hostile destabilization measure.

What escaped that idiot was that this was something the Soviets could do *ONCE*. After firing such a shot, they'd be out of ammunition, the free world's markets would flex to adjust, and continue to perform with vastly greater superiority in both economic growth and military power.

Your assertion that "it became necessary to have a legal tender" (i.e., laws compelling the use of "house chips" as at a casino) is bloody nonsense.

--

SJ Doc
So is it Smith's contention that inflation simply did not exist prior to legal tender laws or institution of one national currency?

If currency is only gold, for example, what prevents the rapid increase in the money supply when new deposits are discovered? It doesn't grow on trees, it grows in the ground.

From the beginning, it became necessary to have a legal tender. Whether accepted by everyone by custom as gold was for much of history or government fiat, we have to trade with something besides goods or services. Much of our early history was characterized by various forms of currency issued by various organizations and much confusion resulted from people losing faith in a particular currency or bank.

We pretty much invented all this stuff as we went along due to the unique nature of our founding. England had currency, it was issued by the crown and the crown acted as central bank. It was relatively recently, that we abandoned the gold standard. It was kept on paper anyway for years because of superstition and fear from using only paper. Adopting a national currency is what allowed us to grow so rapidly from the simplification of commerce and processing financial transactions(still the biggest job of the federal reserve). Allowing currencies to fluctuate against one another has allowed more international commerce.

A good history is available here.

http://www.federalreserveeducation.org/FED101_HTML/History/ index.cfm

Trade still occurs, of course, outside the system when people barter goods or services. A kilo of pure cocaine is worth much more than its equal weight in gold.

Ah, econometrics
--
The spouting of mathematical forumlae which consistently prove nothing but the old adage:

"Figures don't lie, but liars *DO* figure."

The difference between normative (Keynesian) and positive (Austrian) economic theory.


--
"Inflation is made possible by a combination of three forces:

1) Legal tender laws;

2) A government granted money-supply monopoly;

3) Expansion of the money supply and/or credit.

"Legal tender laws force a country’s citizens to accept that government’s money as payment for all debts public and private. In practice, this means that if you tender (offer) U.S. dollars as payment for the purchase of gasoline at a U.S. gas station and the gas station attendant says, “No, I want gold or silver, not U.S. paper dollars,” the customer gets the gas for free. This result is mandated by law. It is not an economic phenomenon! Without this law, people could reject U.S. dollars as payment for their goods/services.

"A government-granted money-supply monopoly gives the money manufacturer (in the United States, that’s the Federal Reserve Bank) the exclusive right to print money and manipulate credit rates among the banks in that country. Others who create their own money will be prosecuted either for counterfeiting or violation of currency laws. Again, this government-granted money-supply monopoly is a political phenomenon, not an economic one. Without this law, people would be able to use someone else’s currency or establish their own competing currency when the government-preferred one becomes untrustworthy. Of course, the monopoly allows the final step: an expansion of the money supply."

-- Robert Jackson Smith



I understand
What you are pointing out Hitch Hiker and see it as you expressed it.

All I was talking about though is Congress never had control of the economy, never.
Its true they can have an affect on it with tax laws, but thats it........until.

The 16th Amendment allowed the politicians and the bankers to partner up in controlling the economy.

Federal Reserve Bank is the problem.
If we could rid the country of the central bank, the IRS would go with them, and politicians could not continue in deficit spending

McCain Record
Let us count McCain’s “conservative credentials”:

-he wrote the bill granting amnesty to illegal immigrants (co-sponsored by Ted Kennedy)
-he voted to give your social security money to illegal immigrants
-he voted against the Bush tax cuts multiple times (he has since flip-flopped and has campaigned as a lifelong tax-cutter)
-he routinely engages in Democratic class warfare against big companies in America
-as recently as December 2007 he admitted “he does not know the economy very well” and needed to get better at it
-he wrote the McCain-Feingold campaign finance bill that was declared to be an unconstitutional infringement of the 1st Amendment (co-sponsored by ultra-liberal Democrat Russ Feingold)
-he was called the “worst 2nd amendment candidate” by the president of the NRA
-wrote a bill (co-sponsored by his buddy Lieberman) imposing a massive tax on energy which, according to the Heritage Foundation, would drastically raise the price of gasoline and put many US companies out of business
-supports radical global warming legislation which involved him voting with every Democrat
-he joined forces with Democrats (“Gang of 14”) to block the Senate Republican’s attempt to confirm conservative, strict constructionist judges
-he joined liberals to fight against a federal marriage amendment supporting the institution of traditional marriage
-campaigning in 2000, he famously described Christian leaders as “agents of intolerance”
-he filed an amicus brief against pro-life advocates in Wisconsin
-he met with leading Democrats in 2004 to discuss the possibility of being John Kerry’s Vice-President
-with most of these positions, unfortunately, McCain hasn’t flip-flopped and vows to fight for these liberal causes as president
-if I wanted to elect a Democrat, I would vote for Hillary or Obama


talent scout
writes, "Congress NEVER had control over the economy, not ever"

Wishful thinking. Some guys at Harvard coined the term political economy to acknowledge the fact that the two are intertwined. I don't think it will ever be possible to completely eliminate government intrusion into the market. The question then becomes, do it intelligently based on empiral facts, do it as little as possible, what we do choose to do, do efficiently.

Many of us, especially here on townhall believe we are way past the point that is optimal already, the libs don't think about it at all, completely lost in feeling great about voting for any new feel good program that comes down the pike.

The economy is subject to harmful intrusions from either a dictator or a popularly elected congress.

The low level of intrusion in our early history explains our rapid rise and also explains many of the libs complaints about brutal capitalist basta%ds.

Ron
I love it. I have long said there are as many effective tax rates in this country as there are people.
Think about it. Do you smoke? Do you consume alcohol? Do you ride the bus? They tax our phones with multiple fees and then add sales tax on the calls you made. Every choice you make involves a tax. Some think about it, some don't. How much gas do you consume? The share going to government is much much larger than the share going to oil company's bottom line to be invested to increase share price or paid out in dividends.

One tax. Put legions of accountants and lawyers out of work. Where do I sign?

How about this?
WE take all the environmental wackos and all the liberal traitors and drop them on Cuba. We replace them with true conservatives who believe in low taxes, small government, minimal interference, and using our own oil, coal, and nuclear power. We stand over them as they repeal all existing taxes, and replace them with a single, simple, fair, direct, individual,tax levied on living persons. We watch closely as they take all the strangleholds off our energy drilling, pumping, refinement and other development. We don't allow any more liberal traitors to have any power over anything.

THE ULTIMATE FEDERAL STIMULUS PROGRAM
We the people pay all taxes, and we are the sole ultimate source of all tax revenue. Regardless where government initially collects the money, all tax money ultimately comes from us, the people, even though business has to pay thousands or millions of dollars at one time and get it back from us one dollar at a time.
Since we the people are the one and only source of all tax revenue:
There should be only one tax to collect all tax revenue.
It should be a single, simple, fair, direct, graduated, individual, full-income tax levied on living persons for each level of government: One Tax and Done.
The best thing that government can do to help the country, the people, and even government, is to repeal all of the many hundreds, or thousands of existing taxes, fees, and charges. These taxes are the federal deficit. These taxes are the high price of everything. These tax eliminations are spending cuts. Every tax that is eliminated is a tax that we the people no longer have to pay. These taxes are the difference between the price we pay for health care and everything else, and the price we would pay if these taxes were repealed. Eliminating these taxes will remove them from the price paid for everything by everyone, including government.
There is no limit to the benefits One Tax and Done will provide:
One Tax and Done will reduce the price paid for everything by one-third.

The good news
If its the 70s all over again, maybe there's another Reagan on the horizon?

Hitch Hiker
Congress NEVER had control over the economy, not ever.

They would not have control if on the Gold Standard either, and that is WHY they HATE the Gold Standard.

THE ONLY ANSWER
Old Man writes: Saturday, January, 26, 2008 11:14 AM
Get rid of the Federal Reserve?
quote:

This is not a place for a treatise on the subject, but a brief dose of reality should serve. Real economic growth in the United States was greater in the nineteenth century without a central bank than it has been in the twentieth century with one. Real economic growth in Hong Kong during the latter half of the twentieth century outstripped that of every other country in the entire world, and it had no central bank.
http://www.elliottwave.com/features/default.aspx?cat=pmp*ai d=3650*time=pm

Look at any chart of the U.S. Inflation and you see that the more we have "manipulated" things, especially after going off the gold standard, and the worse things have gotten. It got so bad we had to change how we calculate inflation to keep it from scaring the daylights out of people and making them realize how much buying power they lose every year.
---------------
Restore the monetary system to its Constitutional LIMITS.

Take back the power over money and its value from the CROOKS that now manipulate the economy.
Bankers

Old Man
Excellent posts. While the actual need for the Federal Reserve system may make an interesting theoretical discussion, in practice, it would amount to leaving important policy in the hands of Congress. Yuk. Until we learn how to remove the many tentacles of the government from the economy, I like having a big one semi-removed from the grasp of fickle politicians.

The third option.
Murphy says the gov't can either adopt a loose monet policy or a tight money policy.

There is a third option: deregulation.

It makes no sense to loosen the money supply if you're going to choke production with hyper-regulation. The inflation boogeyman Murphy cites would not exist if loosening money would spark an increase in production and the creation of wealth. The reason Murphy contends a loose money supply will cause inflation is because money is not the bottleneck that is choking production. Regulation is. Especially in the energy market, which has been the source of nearly all inflation under the Bush economy.

No additional amount of money is going to increase energy production as long as it is illegal to drill for our own oil and impractical to build a coal plant, a nuclear plant, or a refinery. Over-regulation (and price freezes) caused the first "energy crisis" in the '70's. Gov't (and the left) has learned nothing since. Every form of energy production is taxed and regulated into near extinction and then people stand around and wring their hands over "inflation", "recession", and "dependence on foreign oil".

Stupid.

Hey Old Man
Like your thinking, and appreciate the clarity of expression. Please keep it up.

Stoic Patriot,
Good stuff. Afraid politics trumps reality.

The only solution I see is a bit frightening. Especially since the name of our new political party would have to be something like the Liberal Cons or maybe the ConTrarians

chicaree
So you note a lot of problems. What do you see as the way to treat the afflictions?

Here are the 70s all over
OPEC formed and raised the price of oil to $30 a barrel of oil (oh, my!!)--our oil is $100

Kissinger gave the wheat crop to Russia and started inflation in food--ethanol is making corn scarce and raising grocery privces

Nixon tried price controls which goosed inflation; the FED is stuck with much too low interest rates and will pump the money supply which will goose inflation

Liberals convinced the US that pulling out of Vietnam without winning was "peace with honor"--they're still trying to lose Iraq

By the time we got to Carter, we had double digit inflaiton, double digit interest rates (credit cards invented the 18% rate), recession and high unemployment (7% nationally but as high as 10% in NJ), the perennial experts wondered if the DOW would ever hit a 1000, and then the Iranians saw us as so weak, they kidnapped our embassy and the USSR invaded Afghanistan.

The current boom market started in 1982 from 1981's Reagan tax cuts. Maybe it will be killed by gov't intervention in banking (after all, the stupid Congress already demanded banks always have bad loans on the books to prove they weren't discriminating), and gov't meddling with the money supply.

Stoic Patriot Expects Too Much Of Voters
Stoic Patriot offers, "It would be helpful to remind folks of the monetary identity ...."

The majority of the voters, the pitch-fork weilding force behind the give-away, feel-good economic remedies, never learned how to give change, much less basic economics 101. So, when you say, "..REMIND folks of the monetary identity..", it makes me laugh, out-loud.

You are quite the optimist. I will grant you that, for sure.

Feel Dumb About Econ? -Thank An Educator
When over half the voting public, including our political leaders, think that fixing prices, interest rate caps, minimum wage, rent control and handing out cash to Consumers are all good economic remedies, discussing the absurdity of populist economics is a fool's errand.

The fact is, people are not born this stupid. It has got to be learned.

We can thank our public school systems for this. After all, what do we expect out of an educational institution that spends more time teaching the value of condoms, than it does finances. We need to get the public schools out of the hands of educators and back in the hands of the Consumers: Vouchers.

Until the voting public 'gets it', we will continue to see short-term, feel-good economic disasters as we are watching, today.

My law of opposites
For some reason, government economic intervention always produces the opposite of the intended result. For the most recent example, look at the food shortages in Venezuela generated by Chavez and his efforts to reduce hunger among the poor. He radically increased government spending, shich increases inflation. To stifle inflation, he introduced price controls, which caused shortages of consumer goods.

In the US, Bush wants to help people suffering under debt by increasing spending, which will cause inflation, which will drive up interest rates, which will increase the burden on those living in debt.

There is a great Simpsons clip which illustrates think way of thinking: Jasper (Grandpa Simpson's bearded friend) gets his beard stuck in the school pencil sharpener; Grandpa tries to fix the problem by cranking the handle, which pulls Jasper in deeper; grandpa thinks for a second and says "how about this", and cranks the handle again, making things even worse; after about three or four cranks, Grandpa announces he is out of ideas.

stimulus package
We borrow money from China and then use the money to stimulate the economy. The recipients take the money and buy more goods from China. Huckabee had it right, and he was the only one in the debates to get it. If you noted the rest of the Republicans were complaining that the package was not enough.

We all need to stand up and call for a action to address Bush's ridiculous deficit, point out the stupidity of the earmarks, stop the bleeding of our jobs overseas, and while we're at it demand action to combat climate change. None of these major issues are even mentioned in the debate questions. They are key to what the US is going to be like in the future. America is asleep.

Get rid of the Federal Reserve?
quote:

This is not a place for a treatise on the subject, but a brief dose of reality should serve. Real economic growth in the United States was greater in the nineteenth century without a central bank than it has been in the twentieth century with one. Real economic growth in Hong Kong during the latter half of the twentieth century outstripped that of every other country in the entire world, and it had no central bank.
http://www.elliottwave.com/features/default.aspx?cat=pmp*ai d=3650*time=pm

Look at any chart of the U.S. Inflation and you see that the more we have "manipulated" things, especially after going off the gold standard, and the worse things have gotten. It got so bad we had to change how we calculate inflation to keep it from scaring the daylights out of people and making them realize how much buying power they lose every year.

Stoic Patriot
WOW!!Your post today, have made me want a cigarette and I don't even smoke.It was better than SEX.Dr. Friedman would be so proud.In fact for a moment, I thought I heard his voice.He would get so excited when he talked about the importance of velocity as it relates to money supply.I agreed with your final assessment in regards to interest rates.The CDO and CAO derivatives were created at 3.5 or below,therefore in order for them to avoid a crisis,the cost of money must go below that level.Hence the FED intervention.The velocity of the debt instruments far exceeded that of the money supply,which made it impossible for a majority to cash out.The system is "CEASED"(binded-up). Check this "P",I had a discussion with someone,yesterday,I was trying to bring him to this point in the debate,but he refused to get here.What I was trying to show him was the importance of Adam Smith.Mr.Smith wanted us to find the natural Price,which can only be produced from a natural market.But this person likes the Austrian School.Hayek and Dr.Mises were "CHILDREN" to Adam Smith...If I were close by,I would SHAKE YOUR HAND!!!!THANKS..

Economic Stimulus Package: Rebate or Wel
CNSNews.com) - Congress and the White House have reached tentative agreement on a $150 billion economic stimulus package, but analysts on the political left and right differ on whether this deal will help boost the U.S. economy or whether it’s just another swipe of the federal government’s credit card.

The proposal would give checks up to $600 to individuals, and married couples could get up to $1,200, plus $300 per child, with no limit on the number of children eligible. People with an adjusted gross income of $75,000 or couples who make $150,000 would get less, depending on how much higher their income is above these thresholds.

The package also includes tax incentives for small businesses and raises the cap for federally insured home loans, meaning Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac could sign off on loans of $729,750, up from the current cap of $417,000.

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/economic-stimulus- package-rebate-or-welfare

Crisis management
Not how you get out of a crisis but how you use it for other agendas, is what I am referring to in this comment.

This crisis has State demanding the Fed. spend billions on "infrastructure" to bail the states out of falling tax revenues they are currently experiencing. The majority of states are in trouble.

The majority of state also have a NAFTA highway planned to go through them. There are 5 routes that will go from Mexico to Canada or northern states.

What better excuse than the states demanding federal projects to keep them going than moving ahead with Super-Corridors. Here in Az. we are already working on the NAFTA hwy 19 bypass Bridge for the Hoover Dam. California's NAFTA route up I-5 is being worked on but, think of billion more plowing into bridges and more lanes as well a the other routes including the main one through Texas to Canada through Kansas City and the one from Texas through Louisiana and up the eastern states.

For those, like Michael Medved, that say there is no "union," whether technically correct or not, there is a lot of work already going on in the highway system NAFTA calls for. This will be the perfect excuse for this federal government to move ahead with the spending to bail the states out.

Will they? Will the states fall for the "bait" if they do? Will the people see what is going on?

Old Man
Correct. And what is the antidote? Only one possibility.

The FairTax.

Who wins
The Chinese, Koreans, Taiwanese. That is where the money goes that is spent by most low wage earners who get their basic needs at Target, Kmart, Walmart, etc. They, in turn buy oil with the dollars and OPEC loans the money back to us and collects interest from us.

We need a strong economy with manufacturing of the goods we need for everyday life made here. That is impossible with compliance costs that are often higher than the 42% fed and state tax paid on after expense, after compliance, after deductions, after loophole, profit.

We also add 15% tax for entitlements to the costs included in prices. No wonder the consumer prefers imports over domestic product on.

Without total government reform we will continue to have the problem grown even with rebates, tax cuts and growing government spending. We have consumers that have $934 billion in credit card debt and are falling behind in not only that, but home loans, equity loans, boat loans, car loans, payday loans, etc. From 13% of discretionary income in 1980 we now have 18% of it going for debt. It is debt and bad government policy that has our nation in this mess.

But, if we slow spending and pay down our debt, we will cause a recession. So the government is trying to keep us going deeper into debt to avoid the recession which reduces tax revenues they have to have to fund the 44% of national income that comes from government spending.

Great column
This author is good. Can you believe Bush is involved in this BS? Well, yes, insofar as his absolute lack of character has become clear. He cannot really believe that he can pim p the economy like this . . . then again, look at what Bush I did. Have they no decency at all? How did these people get elected. Proof alone that military service does not equate with honorable political leadership (even if it is honorable in itself).

Bush budget won’t fully fund Iraq war


Economists Predicted Prolonged US Presence In Iraq Could Spark Recession



POLITICO-The White House confirmed Wednesday that its new budget next month will not request a full year’s funding for the war in Iraq, leaving the next president and Congress to confront major cost questions soon after taking office in 2009.

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/us-war-costs-in-ir aq-up



Re: Kbainaian
I think we have seen pretty clearly that the banks are running short of funds, hence the huge losses faced by Citigroup and Merrill Lynch et al., some of this nation's largest and most reputable investment banks.

In addition, if firms aren't able to borrow money, they have difficulty keeping their operations afloat, employing individuals, and making a profit (obviously speaking in broad generalities here). I think it goes without saying that firms are interested in borrowing funds in the regular course of business.

The point being...
Nowhere here are transfer payments included since a "rebate" is simply a transfer of Y. A tax cut/rebate may aim to redistribute Y within the household sector, or decrease the feasibility of G, and increase the C flow, but nowhere does this cause Y itself to rise unless you can provide some growth function for Y. I would like for someone to explain to me how such a "redistributional rebate" both within the household sector of Y, and a redistribution of where the flow of money goes (from T and G to C and S) in any way increases the velocity of money, and more importantly, real GDP (Y). The only way this can happen is if you don't decrease G and you instead borrow.

Guess what, though, that comes back to bite you in the end with the interest you pay! Unfortunately our monetary policy is such that the Federal Reserve seems to be promoting just this.

On the fiscal stimulus plan...
I've always been skeptical of proposals such as this because these proposals are essentially nothing other transfer payments which do not count towards GDP.

Consider your simple circular-flow model. If one wants to look at a basic economy, one would do well to remember that it can be broken down into several basic sectors:

- Households
- Businesses
- Foreigners
- Banking
- Government

From each sector there exists a series of "flows" going to and from it. Households engage in consumption of goods produced by businesses. Thus, if one traces the flow of money, consumption (C) is a transfer of money from households to businesses. Likewise, there is a flow of money, a discharge from businesses to households in the form of income earned for services rendered (Y). There are of course "leakages" from consumption in the form of the flow of savings (S) which households give to banks and taxes (T) which households give to government, but these are "injected" back into the business-household dichotomy through investment (I) and government expenditure (G). The business sector receives C, G, and I, and also net exports (Xn) since it is the actual agent importing foreign goods. Net exports is the last "injection" needed to be earned by the business sector to remit income (Y) back to the household sector.

Since each discharge can only happen if the other discharges occur (hence the circular flow) ad infinitum, we get the identity for GDP. (Y = C + I + G + Xn)

With all due respect to Dr. Murphy,
I find it hard to believe that banks, borrowing from sovereign wealth funds around the world and accessing the Federal Reserve's newest Term Auction Facility, would be in a financial position to lend freely from new savings. Nor do I think, in the current position, that firms are eager to borrow. This is the nature of the Keynesian argument, and until you show that the banks are short funds and that the firms want to borrow them, your case isn't made in this article.

Not quite on...
"According to old-school Keynesianism, the government faces a Phillips Curve tradeoff. It can adopt a loose monetary policy, which spurs output but leads to price inflation... Ultimately, printing green pieces of paper doesn’t make a society richer, it just causes prices to rise."

Output is not identical to wealth. It is important to remember that how rich one is is a measure of wealth. Output measures "national income" (real GDP). It would be helpful to remind folks of the monetary identity, namely that:

MV = PY

(Money Supply)(Velocity of Money) = (Price Level)(Real GDP) = (Nominal GDP)

It is also important to note that the Federal Reserve here has engaged in open-market operations by engaging in the purchase of private bonds (commercial paper). This is not the same thing as monetizing the debt. One injects additional liquidity into the economy but is ultimately a temporary measure due to interest that is gained on said financial instruments. The other (monetizing the national debt) is an attempt to ordinarily generate seigniorage. The Federal Reserve may monetize some of the debt, but you shouldn't be so hasty to equate an expansionary monetary policy with debt monetization.

Minus 10% for 2008
It was up about 10% at the end of October, so what does that make it? Freefall. With our $1,200, we are going to buy more Citicorp and Countrywide stock. Now lets hear it from the gurus who say - plan for your retirement, get a 401k, etc. In 1951 the old professor had two things to repeatedly say during one semester - the Fed is a hoax, and there were too many cars on the road. The Fed is still a hoax and there were about 7 million cars on the road then.

Dave/Trulib
The real politics of the stimulus package won't come in to play until Harry land deal Reid and his cronies get a hold of it.
Power Power & more Power is their main goal. They really don't care if it helps the economy or not.

Who's Doing What and Why?
As Dave noted this is all about political advantage. The question is what advantage do the players see in the course they are charting. The Dems probably see short term gains from the quick bribe to the recipients of the 'rebates'. Any bad effects from the policies can be ignored as the media will cover for the Dems.

They may see long term gain from bad effects as they have been able to sell the idea that everything bad that occurs is a result of Republican policy. Were a Democrat to take the White House profiting from bad effects will be tougher but as the media belongs to the Dems not undoable.

Why the Republicans are going along is probably a result of the media effect also. If they fight dropping money from helicopters they will be portrayed as cruel and uncaring. Who among them can explain the folly of this type of action in the world of sound bites? So they make do by getting as much real economic stimulus included in the package as possible and go along with the money drop.

The ringer in this is the huge numbers of people looking at their retirement accounts. The markets don't care about the media. Whatever policy is put in place if it fails to make sense the markets will communicate that to the account holders in the form of less wealth. That is one of the reasons the politicians don't want Social Security privatized as it puts more people into the market and forces the politicians to do things that make the market happy. Bad economic policy makes for unhappy markets.

Keynesian Supply-Sider Pre-Eriksonian?
What the writer of this column blatantly fails to appreciate is that this stimulus package has absolutely nothing to do with economics. It's about politics.

and so what?

the prostitutes, oops sorry, i mean the elected officials know this, the republican conservative prostitutes, oops, sorry, i mean our honorable thomas jeffersons of today, know this, and so what?

the people are ignorant of economic science, it isnt even considerd a science today, but an opinion, until economic opinon is considered a science, like the law of gravity, and is recognized as a scientific law by most Americans, economic opinion will rule, sometimes the economic earth will revolve around the sun and sometimes the economic sun will revolve around the earth, and economic Galileo will be put in ignorant prison.

Ron Paul and Ludwig von Mises may be the Galileos of economic science, but so long as Economics is a land of controversial opinion and not popularly accepted as a science, we are all in in for a roller coaster ride of changing, elected, prostitute opinion.
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