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Tuesday, January 06, 2009
Phyllis Schlafly :: Townhall.com Columnist
Keeping Our American Identity
by Phyllis Schlafly
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Can you name the three branches of American government -- legislative, executive and judicial? If so, you are among the one-half of Americans who know this very basic fact about the U.S. government and Constitution.

The Intercollegiate Studies Institute (ISI), which earlier has conducted in-depth studies of what American college students know, and don't know, about civics, now reports equally depressing facts about grown-ups. It appears that adults, too, lack the civic knowledge they need to be informed citizens and intelligent voters.

ISI administered a very basic test on American history, government and economics to 2,500 Americans age 25 and older. The multiple-choice test asked citizens to identify terms that everybody should know, such as the New Deal, the Electoral College, Sputnik, "I Have a Dream" and progressive tax.

The 2,500 adults scored an average of 49 percent -- that means they get a pitiful F. Those who had received a bachelor's degree averaged 57 percent on the test, compared to 44 percent for those with only a high school diploma. Worse still, 164 adults who had held elected office also scored an average of 44 percent.

Almost 40 percent of respondents said they thought the president (rather than Congress) has the power to declare war. Only 50 percent knew that Congress shares authority with the president over U.S. foreign policy. And almost one in four thought Congress shares authority over U.S. foreign policy with the United Nations.

Americans who lack knowledge of our country's history, Constitution and institutions really have no frame of reference to judge current politics and policies. Federal law requires public schools to teach about the U.S. Constitution on Constitution Day, Sept. 17, but it looks like American adults need those lessons, too.

The 2006 National Assessment of Education Progress (NAEP) Civics Test revealed that the majority of eighth-graders could not explain the purpose of the Declaration of Independence. No wonder young voters are not shocked at those who talk about "interdependence," globalism, and becoming "citizens of the world."

It's not just that American citizens lack knowledge of historical and constitutional facts about our country, but they also show a declining appreciation of who we are. A survey by Harris Interactive reported that 84 percent of respondents believe we have a unique American identity, but 64 percent believe this identity is weakening, and 24 percent believe we are already so divided that a common national identity is impossible.

Political correctness in colleges and public schools over the last decade has gone a long way toward replacing patriotism with the trendy dicta of multiculturalism, diversity and global citizenship. Are we losing our identity as Americans?

To address this question, the Bradley Foundation has started a national conversation on America's National Identity called "E Pluribus Unum." The question is: Is America still "from many, one" ("indivisible," as our Pledge of Allegiance affirms), or are we fast becoming "from one, many"?

A review of history textbooks used in public schools today reveals a big source of the problem. Textbooks now emphasize America's faults and mistakes rather than our incredible achievements.

History textbooks should tell the exciting story that the United States has produced nearly all the world's greatest inventions and that these inventions have produced living standards that are the envy of the world. This exciting narrative is not based on Americans being smarter than other nationalities, or our having more natural resources than other countries, but on the wisdom of the Founding Fathers, who gave us the superior political and economic system enshrined in our Constitution.

We should celebrate and honor our nation's heroes, starting with George Washington. Federal law clearly specifies that the name of the "legal public holiday" on the third Monday in February is "Washington's Birthday."

Americans should refuse to buy the calendars that wrongly label this February holiday as "Presidents Day." This calendar mischief is very offensive because there are quite a few presidents who are not worthy of a special "day."

Maintaining our national identity depends on keeping our Constitution safe from the supremacist judges who want to change it to comport with what they call "emerging standards." Our national identity depends on keeping English as our official, national language so we don't suffer the conflicts endured by nations with competing languages.

America was founded by men who shared a common inheritance in the British rule of law developed over centuries (beginning with the Magna Carta), the Christian religion and the English language. They also shared the belief later expressed by Alexis de Tocqueville that America is "quite exceptional" and by Ronald Reagan that America is "the shining city on the hill."

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About The Author

Phyllis Schlafly is a national leader of the pro-family movement, a nationally syndicated columnist and author of Feminist Fantasies.
 
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Thank you Mrs Schlafly
I Homeschool and I'm forever going the rounds with my parents over it because my emphasis is on American History, reading, and math/science, not the other junk they try to push off on kids these days.

They're globe trotters and liberal, they think my emphasis on American History is crazy, my retort to them is they enjoy the freedom to globe-trot is because of the freedoms this great Republic gave them.

I don't need to teach religion the founding fathers do, I don't teach vocabulary, Thomas Jefferson,Patrick Henry, Thomas Paine, and Ben Franklin do. I don't teach, we read, original documents,autobiographies and books pre- 1960, before they became politically correct but historically incorrect.

My 8 year old scored well above 50% on the ISI civics test and the only reason she didn't score higher is we haven't studied post-depression yet or the ROE vs Wade SCOTUS judgement yet (not age apropritate)

There is no greater all encompassing story than this Country's founding it has it all!
Faith diversity..Geo. Washington abolishing popes day, Ben Franklin helping to pay to build a Jewish synogauge(sic)and the fighting Quakers.
Family..John and Abigail Adams, need I say more
and Country...
My beautiful daughter for her 8th birthday didn't want a Disney princess on her b-day cake...SHE CHOSE AND HAD PATRICK HENRY ON IT...if that's not cool, I don't know what is.

what we need
America is a diverse nation and we are more diverse than some give us credit for.

I do not think multicultralism is a threat that some view it to be. We will still have a dominant culture and that culture will most likely always be centered around our judeo-christian valutes, etc.

But that doesn't mean we don't have room for other languages, cultures, religions, or view points.

We have to realize that its okay to embrace difference and its okay that America is home to numerous religious faiths!

We should celebrate our diversity and celebrate the diversity of thought as well.

As for history. I think its better when we look at America objectivly -which means we examine the bad things and the good things).

I hate the textbooks used by private christian schools as they tend to majorly distort reality.

We have to examine the bad things about american history so maybe one day we wont keep repeating the same mistakes (espicially those centered around prejudice and discrimination).

We need to teach our kids about the diversity of America and the world. We need to educate our kids and give them that intellectual curiosity and that curiosity should allow them not to be taken in by blind patriotism but the ability to question authority and to question the radical ideals of the religious right, etc.

That is what we need.

Mathew...A diverse liberal
If you read the federalist and anti federalist papers, The autobiographies of Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson. The "disturbing" little phamplet" Common sense..we need nothing your philosophy dictates or socialism dictates

The answers are already there.
Obviously you're a product of indoctrination and lessons well

Oops
I meant to say lessons well learned

AN EXCELLENT QUICK READ

Recent Years have Blurred the Lines
I can see how people are confused about the question over who can declare war. The whole Iraq war authorization by Congress without actually declaring war certainly makes it confusing.

I celebrate the idea we should improve
our historical IQ.

But I can say that this is not a major problem.
As historians have made clear - students and
we can assume adults have for the last 100 years
not known much based on these tests.

Yet they fought and won WWII.
Defeated the Soviet Union in the Cold War.
And are currently home to the world's
preeminent political, military and cultural
power.

That said, more knowledge of history - all
history would be beneficial to us as individuals and the US as a whole.

See here for what I asserted earlier:
http://ed.stanford.edu/suse/news-bureau/displayRecord.php?t ablename=notify1&id=188

I have to second kgregt's post
regarding declarations of war (or something
that looks just like it)

This seems to be a case of description (how
it actually works) instead of prescription
(what we are supposed to do)

These terms (prescription and description) are
often used when studying the differences between religions religious documents and the
actual practice of the religion. I think
the terms are equally useful when describing
how governments are supposed to work and how
they do work

Huh?
"History textbooks should tell the exciting story that the United States has produced nearly all the world's greatest inventions and that these inventions have produced living standards that are the envy of the world."

While Americans have produced a great deal, this is a ridiculous exaggeration. Beyond all the great inventions, like the wheel, glass, and metal smelting, whose origin is lost and things invented by the Chinese, like paper, gunpowder, and the compass, there are still all those things invented by Europeans, like the radio, penicillin, the railroad, the printing press, the automobile, and the miniskirt.

"Almost 40 percent of respondents said they thought the president (rather than Congress) has the power to declare war. Only 50 percent knew that Congress shares authority with the president over U.S. foreign policy."

I don't think Bush quite understands this.

Eigth graders voting????
Sometimes I worry about Phyllis.
The following statement does not follow any logic:

"The 2006 National Assessment of Education Progress (NAEP) Civics Test revealed that the majority of eighth-graders could not explain the purpose of the Declaration of Independence. No wonder young voters are not shocked at those who talk about "interdependence," globalism, and becoming "citizens of the world."

Even if you know the purpose of the DOI would
that mean you would not be for interdependence,
globalism, and becoming "citizens of the world"

As a free and independent state are we not
allowed to:
"have full power to levy war [hopefully with
help from allies], conclude peace [on terms
agreeable to all - that includes the U.S.], contract alliances [nuff said], establish commerce [with countries who will support our
exports as we buy and use our imports], and do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do."

In could be said, the final statement of the
DOI is setting the right to establish
interdependence [as I have noted] on our own
terms. And world citizens is generally taken
to mean you are aware of the world and its
history - not as many on TH take it to mean as
a substitute for US citizenship.

Now, what is this about 8th graders voting . . .

That ISI quiz
I just took the quiz that Schlafly refers to. Scored a 94.

Shame on me. I should have gotten 100.

The country is in deep trouble
My congressman didn't (doesn't?) know that Congress has both the authority and duty to rein in the Supreme Court. He probably likes it just the way it is. The Supreme Court passes the laws he'd like to have passed and he doesn't get the blame.

I hear that those studying "Constitutional Law" in the major (minor also?) law schools in America are not taught the U. S. Constitution. Instead, they learn "case law."

The founding documents are somewhat "dry" and difficult to read. Many of our citizens would prefer to watch "reality television" or sports.

I fear our country is doomed! Many of the people who voted for Obama in November thought he stood on the side of the planks of the Republican Party's platform. Try to teach real history in the public schools and you run into flack, not only from the students, but also from the administration!

ISI quiz link
http://www.americancivicliteracy.org/resources/quiz.aspx

I got a 100%
My 8 year old got a 78.4%

She should be a voter.. rather than congress who flunked...she's better informed

reply to sjpatejak, and a rewording of
Phyllis.

sjpatejak, I agreed with you but think I
understand what Schlafly should have said,
which is:

"History textbooks should tell the exciting story that the United States has produced nearly all the world's greatest inventions
since 1789 (1791, to be exact with the creation of the patent office) and that these inventions have produced living standards that are the envy of the world."

This would be accurate.

List of top 25 inventions and why:
http://www.fpri.org/footnotes/1325.200810.husick.stonetosil icon.html

More on innovation and teachers:
http://www.fpri.org/education/teachinginnovation/

A recent US History text is _Inventing America_
which focuses on this theme, written by the
history professors at MIT

Mary...try...
HOMESCHOOL, autobiographies and visiting places like Williamsburg, Jamestowne, and Yorktown VA. keep history alive and not dry.

Make a tricorn hat and sing Yankee doodle
Eat peanuts and sing goober peas
Sit around a campfire in winter and talk about Valley Forge...

History is only as dry as the teachers make it.

PS
"History textbooks should tell the exciting story that the United States has produced nearly all the world's greatest inventions and that these inventions have produced living standards that are the envy of the world."

If you used that statement in a textbook it would be at best a wild exaggeration and at worst a lie.

Would you rather have textbooks that have the truth or textbooks that are little more than a cheerleading session? Yes the great things the US has done should be included, but so should the things it got very wrong. My bet is PS would keep these things under the rug.

See. I didn't mention the J-word, even if it does fit here.

Mod Mark good score
Think of it... you're twice as smart as CONGRESS in civics...

Does this not frighten you?

diversity
Anne/Matthew: You two cannot be real? You must be Kos or MoveOn posters. Our evolution towards what Anne? A nation like Bosnia/Herzegovina or perhaps Iraq, or France??? Look at what your diversity and multiculturalism got them. And Matthew the problem is that our Judeo/Christian heritiage is fading because of what Ms. Schlafly stated: schools, colleges, SCOTUS and Dems all favoring denying American execeptionalism and touting that we are no better than say, N.Korea, Cuba, Sudan, etc.. America has become ruled by the tyranny of the minority and as it continues to manuver through the courts with the backing of the Dem who seek total domination by one party, our American culture, traditions, values will continue to be expunged from the public. Anyway celebrating diversity means celebrating what we have different, which for Dems is what they want; they want to pigeonhole people according to color, religion, class, etc. which means we will be evermore spreading apart as a nation's peoples. Take for instance illegal immigration; wow, they are really joining the American culture aren't they Matthew?? How does diversity affect math, science there Matthew? Were is the diversity in historically black colleges? (I assume you are a white male)Wait until diversity asks you to take a lower position so that someone of diverse color can take yours; then you will sing a different tune. Examining history is fine but it should include the goodness of America.

Mod Mark
Scored 100%


Jumping to conclusions
Edna, I doubt that the:
"164 adults who had held elected office also scored an average of 44 percent" were the
members of Congress. This would be remarkable,
more than likely they were town councilors or
school board members so on and so forth.


Edna
Actually Matthew is right. Sorry, but this is not 1787. The US is part of a connected and diverse world. Learning about other cultures, languages and the like is good for you. It allows you to be more marketable and easily navigate in a smaller, flatter and more diverse world.

He is also right that textbooks should be "fair and balanced" showing the good and the bad of the American experience.

Having a monolingual, monocultural, "American is the best ever" mindset does you no favors and you'll be left behind on the side of the globalization highway. You can curse these turn of events all you want, but as the saying goes there is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come. Reading Locke, Hobbes, Rousseau and de Tocqueville (the ideological fathers save de Tocqueville of the American ideology) is great, but so are other works--non-Americans and non-Western works as well, history of the US is great. One of my favorite subjects is US history, mostly the Civil War--toured a number of battlefields in the west (that being Tennessee, Georgia and Mississippi) and a few in the East. But understanding world history is just as important which is why public and private schools teach it. You do your child a great disservice by ignoring the rest of the world-its history, its philosophy and the like. In fact I'd say it borders on educational malpractice. Again, the US is not the center of the world, even if many of its citizens like to think it is.

Everyone....
Ok, even if they weren't congress(and I bet they are the like of the UNCONSTITUTIONAL hardluck Harry Reid, NAZI Pelosi)

They're still ELECTED OFFICIALS who are sworn in to UPHOLD the Constitution and base their decisions upon the Laws of the Land not on their agendas

AKAGI SPEWS HIS KNOWLEDGE:
One of my favorite subjects is US history, mostly the Civil War--toured a number of battlefields in the west (that being Tennessee, Georgia and Mississippi) and a few in the East

You sir, if you are a US citizen, which I really doubt, need a geography lesson...go find a UNITED STATES map before you spew your "high handed" opinions

None
Black colleges. The reason there isn't diversity in black colleges is because whites won't go to them by and large. Some state black schools like Alabama State even offered scholarships to non-blacks to increase diversity with little effect.

Diversity doesn't always equal Bosnia. And in any event, jumping up and down about it won't do you any good, the US will become more diverse as years go by not less. You do just as well about complaining about the setting of the sun. It is going to happen if you like it or not or to put it another way, better get used to it because it is going to happen no matter your thoughts on the matter. And please find me anyone that says the US is no better than the DPRK.

Execeptionalism? In what way? As for illegal immigrants, they aren't in the US to become part of America, just as American expatriates don't become part of their host country (see no J-word again). They come to the US, work and at some point leave. And no one is saying history shouldn't examine the good things about America and I bet there is no textbook out there that doesn't--if there is please send me the title. But history should also examine the not so good things about America in its history. You want whitewashed versions of US history like some other country I won't name.


Edna
In the Civil War, the war was divided into two parts (there was three but I'll ignore the Trans-Mississippi).

There was the West, Grant (until 1864), Sherman, Rosecrans, among others against Johnson, Bragg, Joe Johnson and others. This was Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, Georgia and then SC and NC. The East, McClellan (replaced), Burnside (Replaced), Meade and finally Grant against Joe Johnson (who'd end up in the west), Lee, Jackson, a number of others.

In 1863-1864, Tennessee, Mississippi and Georgia were considered the west. If you look at a map, you'll notice that western Georgia (Dallas-New Hope Line, Kennesaw, Peachtree Creek, etc) is west of places like the Wilderness and Cold Harbor in Virginia. I am aware that today Mississippi is consider the Southeast--which is why Ole Miss is in the SEC, but this wasn't the terminology used in the 1860s.

There was the Tran Mississippi as I said but pretty sparse really action wise. It was the last last Confederate command to surrender though.

The Next channel over
I wonder if our politicians are aware that when they make their I have a really big dream speech on cable T.V. that on the very next channel reality shows like Cops, and the Jerry Springer show and other shows are showing the tax payers what our tax dollars are really paying for?

The political drapes don’t match the carpet.

I want to see Judge Judy or Judge Joe Brown monitor the next Presidential debates and then let the judges ask the questions show us the facts that support your views please

You said this wasn't 1787
Actually the Civil War was in April of 1861 but I'll ignore that

You said you toured the WEST (Tennessee, Georgia, and Mississippi) and some in the EAST

Now unless you are 148 years old I call you a LIAR though a well studied LIAR but a liar none the less


"National Identity", history, and Englis
American history should include the positives AND the negatives. We should be taught about the lofty ideals upon which our country was founded, and the imperfection with which we have pursued those ideals. We should learn about great accomplishments, but also our failures. Our Founding Fathers should be celebrated for their accomplishments, but not deified.

Unfortunately, for much of our history the faults were airbrushed over; now I think the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction. But our history should be taught accurately, warts and all.

As for the statement: "Our national identity depends on keeping English as our official, national language so we don't suffer the conflicts endured by nations with competing languages." Not necessarily true. A common language does not guarantee a lack of conflict, nor does the use of multiple languages necessarily provoke it. Check the history of Switzerland, for example; they have four official languages.

Edna
Since anyone with a sense of history would know what I was referencing when I said I toured a number of battlefields in the west: Tenn. (Shiloh, Stones River, Lookout Mtn), Mississippi (Vicksburgh, Brice's Crossroads, Tupelo), Georgia (too many to name, but New Hope Church, Kennesaw, Chickamauga, Pickett's Mill, Allatoona Pass, Peachtree Creek).

Look at these sites and notice the term "the west" and where this west is actually located--it ain't Nevada.

http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/civilwar/a/amcivilwarwe st2_2.htm

http://www.amazon.com/Decision-Heartland-Civil-West-Reflect ions/dp/0275987590

From the Amazon review "The verdict is in: the Civil War was won in the "West"--that is, in the nation's heartland, between the Appalachian Mountains and the Mississippi River." A true statement that too. Since the term "west" confuses you in reference to the Civil War (an inaccurate term but the most common accepted one--The War of Southern Secession would be a better term but it is what it is), do you think you are qualified to educate anyone? Since you are from NC, be aware when the Civil War ended the West was on the NC-Virginia border which is where Joe Johnson surrendered to Sherman--given command again at the very end of the war just so he'd have the dishonor of surrendering. Davis loathed him and fired him just before Peachtree Creek and replaced him with that madman Hood.

Edna
"...toured a number of battlefields in the west (that being Tennessee, Georgia and Mississippi) and a few in the East."

This is what I said, because Shiloh is in the west, so is Stone's River, so is New Hope Church. They were in the western theatre of operations (not that was a term used in 1863) as opposed to The Wilderness which was in the east.

1787 is the date the Constitution was drafted if you were unaware. That sentence had nothing to do with the Civil War.

Semper
You're right
When I teach my daughter I teach the good the bad and the ugly.
Are we perfect NO
We are though the greatest experiment in self government though out the ages and that says a lot for AMERICANS.
This country should have gotten rid of slavery earlier yes Ben Franklin should have been a better dad and less of a womanizer true.
Carl Lindberg was a NAZI sympathizer and Henry ford was a anti-semite...all true
Should of the Bonus marchers been met with tanks and their shanty town burned out NO
This country does learn from it's mistakes but if the good isn't told then kids won't know how we rose above it and have PRIDE and a sense of Heritage.
Japan got rid of the samouri's (sic)but don't forget they were a part of it's history.
King Henry the 8th isn't the UK's shining star but he's not forgotten.
Africa doesn't forget the ZULU
We don't forget Donner's Pass
It's history..but in looking back you can look forward and do better.

Edna Eagle - 9:00AM Jan. 6
"If you read the federalist and anti federalist papers, The autobiographies of Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson. The "disturbing" little phamplet" Common sense..."

Edna, I best most folks today have not even HEARD of Richard Henry Lee's, "Letters of the Federal Farmer," let alone read these anti-federalist papers. (Gee, I do hope those were the papers to which you were referred.)

Semper Libertas
True. China has hundreds of languages that they call dialects for political reasons, Taiwan has three major languages (Mandarin (Guoyu), Taiwanese (Taiyu; Minnanhua; Hokkien) and Hakka (Kejiahua), Singapore has four official--Mandarin, Tamil, Malay, English and various Chinese dialects such as Hakka. India has 22 official languages and on and on.

Keeping English as official? When did this happen. Please cite the law that states this. Official language laws do little of anything and wouldn't stop what upsets the language police the most--press one for English, billboards with El Banco de Sur on them.

Jesus Obama said......
Whether Clinton, Bush or Barry Dunham......it's all about Meh-hee-co. Meh-hee-co 24/7/365. We must, must, must have more amigos coming to the USA for the political class want to grow our population to one billion.

"You don't need to worry about immigrants learning English, you need to make sure your kids learn Spanish". Jesus Obama.

Just IGNORE akagi! Otherwise.....

well, you don't want to know....


The very people that Schlafly is talking

about in her column, are the very people who were so clueless, than they voted FOR Obama.

Zogby Poll

512 Obama Voters 11/13/08-11/15/08 MOE +/- 4.4 points

97.1% High School Graduate or higher, 55% College Graduates

Results to 12 simple Multiple Choice Questions

57.4% could NOT correctly say which party controls congress (50/50 shot just by GUESSING!)

71.8% could NOT correctly say Joe Biden quit a previous campaign because of plagiarism (25% chance by GUESSING!)

82.6% could NOT correctly say that Barack Obama won his first election by getting opponents kicked off the ballot (25% chance by GUESSING!)

88.4% could NOT correctly say that Obama said his policies would likely bankrupt the coal industry and make energy rates skyrocket (25% chance by GUESSING!)

56.1% could NOT correctly say Obama started his political career at the home of two former members of the Weather Underground (25% chance by GUESSING!)

And yet.....

Only 13.7% failed to identify Sarah Palin as the person on which their party spent $150,000 in clothes

Only 6.2% failed to identify Palin as the one with a pregnant teenage daughter

And 86.9 % thought that Palin said that she could see Russia from her "house," even though that was Tina Fey who said that!!

Only 2.4% got at least 11 correct.

Only .5% got all of them correct. (And we "gave" one answer that was technically not Palin, but actually Tina Fey)



It's just a little disconcerting that in just a few days we will have a Marxist president, by in large, because he was voted into office by people who were uneducated!


Edna
"Japan got rid of the samouri's (sic)but don't forget they were a part of it's history."

Note to my fans--please note who brought this subject up--it wasn't me. I didn't start the J-word thread, she did. But here we go...

It is Samurai and it literally means "to serve." And Japan didn't really get rid of them--the Americans did. The influence of the Samurai were weakened during the Meiji Restoration (see the film the Last Samurai, mostly fiction, but you get the idea and not unlike real life events such as the Satsuma Rebellion)but many continued on as military and business elites. Many of Japan's WWII officers were from the Samurai. The end of WWII brought the end of the Samurai.

A better example of bad events in Japan would be China 1937 and Japan basically ignores this and those who call for Japan to be more open in this regard do so at their own peril--Japan has its right wing nuts too--e.g. Ishin Seito Shimpu.

Symantics will get us Nowhere Akagi
Hermitiage is there also but it's NOW considered the southeast.
If symantics is your game then ponder this...
The Constitution was begun to be ratified in 1787 and was finally ratified in when? and how many states needed to be on board for it to be ratified?.... Look,
We both posses a good grasp of history...Can't kids enjoy the same love and learn pride of their heritage?
My daughter wouldn't have gotten the score she did w/o knowing Plato and Aristotle now would she..
I'm not saying you're not well learned, in fact it's impressive.
I don't like your politics though..agree to disagree please

Race and language matter...
The reason why the US and England started and developed the whole "freedom thang" - liberty, free market economics, freedom of speech, separation of church and state, etc. is because Protestant, English speaking peoples developed these philosophies.

There's a reason why non-Protestant, non-English speaking peoples didn't develop these things and why the history of Africa, Asia, Islamic worlds is filled with totalitarianism, mass collectivism and "unity" is because race/ethnicity/language all play a part in human society.

The US should take strides to keep the country majority caucasian, majority Christian, English.
Even though the vast majroty of Americans agree with that, I have no faith that those majorities will be maintained.

Political correctness, diveristy and multi-culturalism will likely win out since the political class, academic class and media class are all 100% in favor of those ideologies.

Bye-bye sovereign, independent USA.......hello world government.

Akagi Lighten up
Please...
Japan should be proud of it's History was all I was saying...Jeeeezzzzzzzzz

Edna: My daughter homeschools as well.

What I'm waiting for is her already planned "civics lesson" when Congress is debating the "Censorship Doctrine."

Picture: Washington, DC...in front of the Capitol Bldg.

A multitude of concerned (worried) informed Americans, and among them my daughter with a 5yr. old, a 3yr. old, and a 1yr. old in the backpack, ALL carrying plastic pitchforks (LOL) thanks to Discovery Toys.

And I'm pretty sure my daughter will be carrying a real pitchfork.

I'll be with her, taking pictures. :-)


The rest of the uninformed public will have no clue about one more bit of legislation that was just passed under their noses.



BET
Nice editing. The real quote was this "I don’t understand when people are going around worrying about, we need to have English only. They want to pass a law, we just, we want English only...Now, I agree that immigrants should learn English, I agree with this. But understand this, instead of worrying about whether immigrants can learn English, they’ll learn English, you need to make sure your child can speak Spanish." He then went on to say "You should be thinking about how can your child become bilingual...We should have every child speaking more than one language. It’s embarrassing when Europeans come over here, they all speak English, they speak French, they speak German. And then we go over to Europe and all we can say is merci beacoup, right?"

And he is 100% right. You know the joke. "What do you call someone who can speak three languages? Trilingual. And two languages? Bilingual. How about only one? American."

He meant everyone should be bilingual at least. It makes you more marketable, and makes you a more rounded, educated person. In the long distant past, the educated in the US could always speak and read in other languages (French, Latin and Greek). But no more. Obama is right on this one. Now I won't say you have to learn Spanish, but you should learn some language--and one that is at least useful. Not talking about Gaelic here.



Edna.... Edna....Edna....YOU have GOT to

IGNORE akagi!

As usual, REGARDLESS of what a column is about, he's simply trying to hijack the thread, as he always tries.


IG-NORE him! Please, please, please.

Besides, he'll make you crazy because he's such a twit!

Edna
Some people just want to argue; WHAT they will argue about comes in as a distant second.

Yes, Mrs AL...Correct us usual
Letters from a Farmer in Pennsylvania - the “farmer” being the gifted and courageous statesman John Dickinson and Letters from the "Federal Farmer"-he being, Richard Henry Lee of Virginia. Together, Dickinson and Lee addressed a whole range of issues brought on by the crisis of British policies in North America.

Good show..sorry I was slow but we're building the Statue of Liberty (mini) and we ran out of "mortar" (plaster o'paris) and I had to mix some up.

Anne...Meet you there!
In DC...
And I'm pretty sure my daughter will be carrying a real pitchfork.

I'll be with her, taking pictures. :-)

Ok, done ...

Anyway, Anne one of the best things to come out for the grandkids on DVD is the Complete set of Liberty's Kids...The kids learn and watch cartoons at the same time I use it in all my 0-3rd grade history lesson I teach with our homeschool group...It's a hoot for us too...Sly Stallone as Paul Revere...Walter Cronkite as Ben Franklin and guess who Dustin Hoffman is...hint his initials B.A...lol

Anne
I don't hijack anything. I stay on point just as long as you will, but once you move off--everything becomes fair game. Jim and Denise began our little Pacific War excursion, I simply followed them there. And who brought up the Samurai today? Hint it wasn't me? Who brought up Executive Order 9066 (even if she had no clue the title of the exact order she referenced?). Who used the racist J-word? None of it was me. You want to stay on topic, stay on topic and I will as well. Of course pretty lame topic "liberals are liars, cheats..." I can see how that topic would go. Like something you'd hear in a middle school.

Make you crazy? No for me to do that you'd have to actually be sane

Edna Eagle 1:26PM Jan 6
"sorry I was slow but we're building the Statue of Liberty (mini) and we ran out of "mortar" (plaster o'paris) and I had to mix some up."
*****************
No apology necessary and talk about multi-tasking. Wow. I don't have that talent -- lol.

Good luck with the project!

akagi
Okay, look at some of the postings on MoveOn or Kos for comparisons to DPRK and other miserable nations. The left always compares us but finds fault in our America and finds glory in other nations.. Have you been living under a rock or are you so innured with hated for America that you ignore what the left has said about America? Next, What does being connected to a diverse world have to do with our losing our American culture; you actually sound enthusiastic about America becoming a third world nation. Education and being educated about the world is wholly different from America becoming a diverse and multicultural nation. What happens when, like in France, these other celebrated cultures in America start to complain about this being America? What if we get to the point where friction between races, cultures ignites into anarchy or war? Name me a nation where multiculturalism has actually improved ties between the cultures and with the host nation and its culture? UK, France?? Hmmm. A clue to where you are coming from. You lose all credibilty by questioning American execptionalism. Now I know I am debating a narrow-minded, America hating liberal. You gave up the game there. But I digress: OMG you think illegal immigrants come and go; okay then we should not have to support them with our entitlements and schools and hospitals, etc. Again you give up the game with your comments here. Illegal immigrants-good; America wanting to secure its borders and desire everyone to be American if you live here-bad.. And please do not argue that black colleges are under the same pressure to diversify as other major colleges. So mr. japanese aircraft carrier sunk at Midway there you go.

Anne..oops
Sorry for being such a goof you can get the complete set on Amazon..I was cleaning up mortar and typing..such is homeschool
Here it is...GREAT Investment for Amerca's future

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw_1_8?url=search-alias%3 Ddvd&field-keywords=libertys+kids+complete+series&sprefix=L ibertys

akagi: Uh, sorry, NO YOU DIDN'T!

That was some liberal "Anne" from NC...

Anne
Location: NC
Reply # 6
Date: Jan 6, 2009 - 9:40 AM EST Matthew
Very good post. I have enough faith in America that I am able to enjoy and celebrate its evolution. Diversity keeps us alive and moving forward.


You do need to start paying better attention.


Now, back to the point of the column... "Keeping Our American Identity."


Anna and Matthew
Screw diversity. In the name of "diversity," you people are asking me to accept things that I find morally repugnant. Not going to happen! Of course, with the latest political happenings, "diversity" is going to be shoved down our throats. I see it being illegal to be an independant thinker soon.

Still clinging to guns and religion!!!

everyonesfacts
I still don't think you make your case. Of the 25 inventions, not one is unambiguously by an American, and most, like money or law, are incredibly ancient. I would also point out that electromagnetism and natural selection are discoveries not inventions since they existed be fore they were known. Even since 1791 I don't think you can say "that the United States has produced nearly all the world's greatest inventions." I don't wish to get into an argument into what is a great invention and exactly who produced it. I will grant that the US has produced a disproportionate share of them.

everyonesfacts
I still don't think you make your case. Of the 25 inventions, not one is unambiguously by an American, and most, like money or law, are incredibly ancient. I would also point out that electromagnetism and natural selection are discoveries not inventions since they existed be fore they were known. Even since 1791 I don't think you can say "that the United States has produced nearly all the world's greatest inventions." I don't wish to get into an argument into what is a great invention and exactly who produced it. I will grant that the US has produced a disproportionate share of them.

Mrs AL
Thanks multi-tasking is fun! I got the Statue of Liberty kit online from edmund scientific for ages 8+ ( almost 400 pieces)

Have a look it's great and on sale

http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp?pn=3001524&cmss=st atue+of+liberty

Edna: Thanks. I'll forward the link

to my daughter....

That's ONE of the good thing about homeschooling parents... the networking to find the best curriculum, etc.

SURE beats a school board! :-)


jumping in on the discussion
I’ll jump in here:

none writes: “Our evolution towards . . .a nation like Bosnia/Herzegovina or perhaps Iraq, or France??? Look at what your diversity and multiculturalism got them.”

I think what they want is what they would call a better America.
France is much less diverse than the U.S.
Also France has had fewer “problems” with its outside minority
than the US with its black population. This is not to say the
US has not been the most welcoming country in history, it
has, but France has historically been more welcoming to blacks
from the U.S. than the US was (to its own)
And modern Iraq is an imperial creation of the Versailles Conference.


“And Matthew the problem is that our Judeo/Christian heritiage is fading because of what Ms. Schlafly stated: schools, colleges, SCOTUS and Dems all favoring denying American execeptionalism and touting that we are no better than say, N.Korea, Cuba, Sudan, etc..”

I do not know where you are getting the comparisons from and what
# or % you think they are (check your butt because you seemed to
pull it out of your arse). The heritage changes because America’s
citizens have increasingly come from new areas where the
Judeo Christian legacy is not as present.

“America has become ruled by the tyranny of the minority and as it continues to manuver through the courts with the backing of the Dem who seek total domination by one party, our American culture, traditions, values will continue to be expunged from the public.”

What?
Each party seeks one party rule in that they try to win all the seats.
American culture(s), traditions and values cannot be expunged
because they are ever-changing. As are each nations which still
exists.


jumping in on the discussion
“Anyway celebrating diversity means celebrating what we have different, which for Dems is what they want; they want to pigeonhole people according to color, religion, class, etc. which means we will be evermore spreading apart as a nation's peoples.”

I am not sure this is done any more by Dems than by Repubs.
Any evidence of this?
The national political conventions seem to tell a story that belies
your assertion.

“Take for instance illegal immigration; wow, they are really joining the American culture aren't they Matthew??”

I would say so.
Studies suggest recent immigrants are joining the American culture
at rates similar to the past.

“Where is the diversity in historically black colleges?”

Do you not understand what “historically black?”
In other words, they were black only because blacks weren’t allowed
into public (white) and private (white) colleges.

“Examining history is fine but it should include the goodness of America.”

sjpatejak
The list/link was added for fun.
I think there is no question that America has
been the most inventive country since 1791 -
by any measure. Before that date, are the most
important inventions.

The link was not meant to be confusing, just
interesting.

Anne...Beating homeschool blues
For your daughter:
A funny upbeat video for homeschooling blues to cheer her on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIOogqa-5GA

Matthew
There is nothing wrong with diversity; however, in the name of diversity textbooks distort American history by focusing not on the many American successes, but on the much fewer failures. I've gone through my daughter's Am History textbook from public school and as far as it is concerned, nothing American did was ever right or original or good for humanity. My daughter knows this to be propaganda because she spent eight years in a Christian school where the benefits of US citizenship were emphasized. Were these a distortion? Well, maybe, but given the one-sided treatment of public school textbooks, I consider these to be a balancing factor.

I would love to see a textbook that actually didn't give an unbalanced view of American history, but the last one I saw was written in 1954 and was the standard history text in my high school when our students were routinely scoring in the top 5% of the nation on the SATs.

Anne Chuck, something I just noticed
DUH...boy am I ...well never mind

Akagi is the copy /paste king...I was wondering how he got those "facts" up so quick. long post in less than 10 seconds..it's not knowledge it's lightning fast copy paste abilities...while I had typo's, and was using memory stored knowledge

DUH...I was having a "battle" with a CHEATER...sometimes it just doesn't pay to be HONEST

Consider him forever ignored..thanks for the tip!


The History of the
United States is Noble and true. The problem is there is a dearth of desire in this country to know what is noble and true.

The love of diversity and the profane crowds out the noble and true.

Watcher from Alaska
That's why I don't really use much material newer than 1960 (except for world geography)
Since that changes more than some people change their socks..lol
Fair and Balanced is no longer it's now politically (in)correct or nothing.

Edna
I don't paste anything. Which is annoying when the post fails due to the terrible servers at TH.

My knowledge on the subjects I care about are in my head--in general those dealing with Asia and the US Civil War. I do have to look up exact quotes though--on those you have to be precise--e.g. Obama's language quote.

And if you don't use anything before 1960 you are guilty of gross malpractice. Sorry, but knowledge didn't stop in 1960.

I won't be hurt if you ignore me. One less fool I have to waste my time on.


Nothing wrong with diversity
BTW, took the quiz, scored 91% and one of the three questions I missed was on the proper response of government during a recession -- I believe they should lower taxes and spend LESS, whether or not that's what they actually do or not. Alaska is doing that now; watch to see what happens over the next five years.

There's nothing wrong with diversity in US life. Think about the many signs fo diversity that exist here. My husband's family were Canadian wetbacks who snuck across the St. Lawrence waterway in rumrunning boats because Irish weren't welcome here then. Now they have big St. Patrick's Day parades in some cities. That's diversity. Look around the US and you see many examples where we took a newly arrived immigrant culture and absorbed into our national culture. I'm not sure what happened, why we lost the knack for that, but we need to get it back and realize that patchwork quilt IS our culture and there is nothing wrong with it; in fact, we should celebrate it. We shoudl also realize that no nation survives without internal cohesion. Language is the carrier of culture; therefore, we must choose a language that is THE language of the US. There was actually a vote on it a long time ago -- German almost won back then, but English was the agreed-upon language. We need to go back to that and realize that English may not be the greatest language in the world, but it's the language most US citizens speak and it should be declared our official language because no nation survives without internal cohesion and we're at risk of losing that very soon unless we act to stop it. Government, schools, elections -- all ought to be operated in English and then if people want to speak their languages at home, that's fine. It worked in the past and it produced a powerhouse of a nation. Let's get back to that.

I'm betting that slutty-sophie's mother

would TRADE children with Phyllis in a heart beat...

Who in their right mind wouldn't be happier with Phyllis' son, or ANYONE OTHER than slutty-sophie???






aurorawatcher
"...it should be declared our official language because no nation survives without internal cohesion and we're at risk of losing that very soon unless we act to stop it. Government, schools, elections -- all ought to be operated in English and then if people want to speak their languages at home..."

China has hundreds of languages which for political reasons they call dialects. Is Fujian or Guangdong or Hainan in danger of leaving since they speak Hainnanhua, Minnanhua, Minbeihua, Guangdonghua instead of Putonghua? Singapore has four official languages and many dialects of Chinese. Taiwan has three--Mandarin (guoyu), Taiwanese (Taiyu; Minnanhua; Hokkien) and Hakka--Japanese is also spoken among many of the over 70 crowd and English is also widespread, plus the languages of the Yuanzumin tribes (9 of them which are the non-Han original inhabitants of Taiwan). There are bilingual public schools now in Taipei, India has 22 (actually Edna--I did look this one up--I thought it was 15, with English being an associate official language which was the case at one point, so I wanted to be accurate and I am not an expert on India) and on and on.

Oh and in case you were curious, Taiwan does have an official language--Mandarin. Such laws are mostly useless and don't address the major things that upset the language police--push one for English, billboards with "El Banco del Sur" on them.

Watcher
What's is different now is an awfully large part of immigrants (usually Illegal) don't want to be absorbed into American culture and citizenship.
They want to be called things like Mexican-American, Chinese-American or whatever-American, they intentionally put another country BEFORE the one they want to live in.
Is it wrong to be an American of Chinese decent or Mexican decent..
Absolutely NO
Once you become an American Citizen you gave up the other country as a place to live and adopted America as your homeland.
You don't have to forget old traditions and it's fun for me to experiance some of them.

That's what all the immigrants of old(the late 1800',early 1900's) did they took pride in learning English and becoming part of American Culture but also had pride they taught of their heritage to their kids but they still called themselves AMERICANS FIRST

re: BETWyan
Our country's success has nothing to do with maintaining a "white majority". As for it being related to our speaking of English, many of our Founding Fathers also spoke French, German, Latin, Greek. There was a time when enlightenment was considered a virtue.

What is the American Culture?
I remember when I was in a Christian University, the professor of sociology, a white middle aged lady, told us, “there is not such a thing as ‘American culture.’”

I was really perplexed at that moment, I did not know what to say. It was the first time some one told us that we have not culture. In other words America is a culture-less nation.

According to this professor who was very “sensitive” to other cultures but hers, believed that the English settlers were committing cultural suicide against the natives. In other words, after two hundred years of European invasion, whatever came up is anything but American culture.

That was a radical claim not supported by facts. The truth is that my professor was re-writing the history of America and denying the Judeo-Christian culture that the pilgrims and puritans brought to this part of America.

Diversity is the new “culture” in America. In other words, America has not identity. Therefore, there is nothing to be proud of. No wonder we have a new generation of teenagers that knows more about MTV and nothing about who were the Founding Fathers, how many they were, what is the role of Christianity in America, what the Constitution says about freedom of religion, press and speech, why America is the only one country in the whole world that attracts more immigrants.

When was the last time that American students in public schools read the letters of Jefferson, Washington, Franklin, Madison, and other Founders?

Now, when was the last time these same students heard about diversity, gay sensitivity, Hispanic heritage Month, Black heritage month, and all “heritage” races except the European heritage month?

If they are really proud of their own culture, why are they here? In the meantime, “guilty white” people, as my professor, will continue denying his or her own culture for love of “diversity

Anne
"Who in their right mind wouldn't be happier with Phyllis' son, or ANYONE OTHER than slutty-sophie???"

Remember Anne when I pointed out your habit of first strike insults yesterday when you claimed only liberals resorted to personal attacks but you only did so in response. Please show us the post on this thread where Spohie attacked you? And yet you reply to with "slutty-soophie."

Makes you out as a liar does it not? Or perhaps you are so deranged you don't recognize that.

Homeschooling
"That's why I don't really use much material newer than 1960 (except for world geography)
Since that changes more than some people change their socks"

Boy oh boy. No wonder 40% of the respondents think the President declares war. You really need to wake up, show your kid some respect, and give them a good education. Much has happened since 1960, and shame on you for dragging your poor child into the world of insanity you seem to reside in.

re: JimP
quote: "The History of the United States is Noble and true. The problem is there is a dearth of desire in this country to know what is noble and true.

The love of diversity and the profane crowds out the noble and true."

Sorry, but the entire history of our country can not be said to be "noble and true". Declaration of Independence? Yop, pretty damn noble. Slavery? Not so much. Victory of fascism in WW2? Noble. Treatment of blacks? Not so much.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. We need to realize the good and the bad, lest we repeat our mistakes.

Matthew
"We should celebrate our diversity and celebrate the diversity of thought as well."

Unfortunately, liberals who run the educational establishment think "diversity" includes only those who agree with them.

Well put Manuel
Great post

Edna: Thank you. I LOVED the video!

Just sent it to my daughter... I know it will immediately be emailed around to all the other mothers in her homeschool groups.

What a great "pick-me-up" and that song is my all time favorite. :-)

akagi: NOPE!!! Not even close!

Obviously you didn't read slutty-sophie's post, or perhaps you didn't understand what she was saying.

And, the fact that her vile post is GONE should give you a clue... since personal vile, reprehensible posts are pretty much the only ones TH pulls.

And again, I'm accepting yet another apology from you.... :-)


sdf
Get a clue....
My daughter (age 8) reads the classics in its original manuscript is learning Latin and scored higher on the civics exam than the ivy league college grads and is in the 5th grade according to those stupid educational skills tests that we're required to have them take...

You have no clue about homeschooling so before you spew nonsense get your facts straight.

Here's a link read up:

http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp

Anne..you're so welcome
Glad you liked! I hope your daughter will enjoy it too.
Edna

Ms Schlafly is mistaken
Ms. Schlafly,
I must inform you that you are mistaken that our ideas of liberty in the British rule-of-law started with the Magna Carta. King Henry I in the 1100 issued the Charter of Liberties. This predates the Magna Carta, and was part of the inspiration that lead the lords of England to force King John to sign the Magna Carta in 1215.

Semper
"Victory of fascism in WW2? Noble."

HUH??? Fascism LOST in World War II.

Besides, I would hardly consider a "victory of fascism" to be "noble."

I advise you to do a little proofreading before you post.

my own test based on posters
1. define American culture (limit your response
to one TH post)
2. When was the Unites States NOT a multiculutural country?
3. Can you be proud of a heritage that originates
outside the U.S. and still be an American?

my2centsplus writes: "I wonder if Ms.

Schfly a will stop her own relgious bigotry towards Christian chruches she does not agree with (LDS?)"


I am NOT taking "sides" but I do have a question.

IS it possible to "disagree" and not be a bigot?

Or, is it automatically assumed that if someone disagrees with an issue or a faith doctrine, that one is automatically a bigot?


sophist
"Oh Ken, being so pompous in catching a minor typo is sooooo tedius."

Did you mean "tedious"?

HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!


P.S. If you liberals would learn how to write, we wouldn't have this problem.

But slutty-sophie: Did I say that you'd

mentioned me? NO, I did NOT!

Did I say that your post was directed at me" NO, I did NOT!

You making things up again? Appears so!


Edna
"What's is different now is an awfully large part of immigrants (usually Illegal) don't want to be absorbed into American culture and citizenship."

Well illegals can't become citizens and in many ways they are like Americans working abroad who have no desire to become part of those countries either. Illegals come, they work and eventually return home. Today's immigrants assimilate no slower than those in the past. 90% of second generation Hispanics speak English well or fluently. In the Civil War, there were entire regiments who spoke only German and the battlefield commands given to them in German.

Written Laws
With out researching it, I think it was in ancient Babylon that the first code of written laws were issued by King Hammurabi. However, western culture looks to ancient Rome and Greece as its beginning. Rome also issued several laws during its 500 year republic that encoded rights for its citizens. It was because of these rights that the apostle Paul was sent to Rome once the Prelate of Judea learned that Paul was a citizen of Rome. However, origins of our laws are based upon those of Britain. So I fully acknowledge that several civilizations established laws and codes for their citizens. That does not change the facts that our codes are based upon the ideas of liberty developed in Britain.

Anne/NC: Yeah, the left has a HUGE

problem with a Conservative point of view, and especially with anyone who has no problem with saying it!!!

But, the question is, why would anyone from the left, who OBVIOUSLY DISAGREES with anything Conservative, logon to TH in the first place?

Perhaps just to argue and insult and be generally ignorant?

Kind of like those leftists who go out of their way to attend Conservative lectures, and such, and then storm the stage (as they did when Minute Men pres. Gilchist was speaking at Columbia, or throw pies at Ann Coulter at U AZ???)

Don't see Conservatives behaving so reprehensibly now do you? No, you do not!

And then there's the issue of all Conservative posts being immediately pulled from Puff-Ho and dailykos... and the poster usually banned? Don't see that on TH with liberal posts.

In fact, the ONLY time any post is pulled at TH is when they're reprehensible, vile, foul, disgusting, posts such as sophie's.

The beginning of the problem for her
"but know that it is more important to be a citizen of the world than any one country."

Written Laws
With out researching it, I think it was in ancient Babylon that the first code of written laws were issued by King Hammurabi. However, western culture looks to ancient Rome and Greece as its beginning. Rome also issued several laws during its 500 year republic that encoded rights for its citizens. It was because of these rights that the apostle Paul was sent to Rome once the Prelate of Judea learned that Paul was a citizen of Rome. However, origins of our laws are based upon those of Britain. So I fully acknowledge that several civilizations established laws and codes for their citizens. That does not change the facts that our codes are based upon the ideas of liberty developed in Britain.

sophist
"How will I overcome my overwhelming shame???"

The idea of you having any shame is even more laughable than your poor writing.

"Ken, you doofus."

Coming from you, that insult is more than a little ironic. Unfortunately, I suspect your sense of irony is as poorly developed as any of your other senses.

Written Laws
With out researching it, I think it was in ancient Babylon that the first code of written laws were issued by King Hammurabi. However, western culture looks to ancient Rome and Greece as its beginning. Rome also issued several laws during its 500 year republic that encoded rights for its citizens. It was because of these rights that the apostle Paul was sent to Rome once the Prelate of Judea learned that Paul was a citizen of Rome. However, origins of our laws are based upon those of Britain. So I fully acknowledge that several civilizations established laws and codes for their citizens. That does not change the facts that our codes are based upon the ideas of liberty developed in Britain.

sdf: re "material newer than 1960"

Which btw, is when our public school system started straight DOWNHILL!


"Boy oh boy. No wonder 40% of the respondents think the President declares war."

And that's not even counting the people who actually don't know that CONGRESS needs to pass the national budget, and approve all expenditures.

And then, if that's not bad enough, in a few days we will have a VP who doesn't know the difference form Article I from Article II from Article III.

And that VP loser (and plagiarizer, btw) teaches Constitutional law.



Confusing
"They will be taught to be thankful and proud that they were born in the most free and prosperous nation on earth, but know that it is more important to be a citizen of the world than any one country."

Yeah, especially those other parts of the world that are less free and prosperous.

Poor kids.

americanization rates
Edna writes:
“What's is different now is an awfully large part of immigrants (usually Illegal) don't want to be absorbed into American culture and citizenship.”

But absorbed they are. The Americanization of these immigrants
happens as fast as it once did if not faster.
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=5015

“They want to be called things like Mexican-American, Chinese-American or whatever-American, they intentionally put another country BEFORE the one they want to live in.”

Does the order mean anything?
So if they were American-Mexican or American-Chinese
that would be ok?

“Is it wrong to be an American of Chinese decent or Mexican decent.”

“Absolutely NO” and more or less the same thing as
Mexican-American – the difference is semantics.


“Once you become an American Citizen you gave up the other country as a place to live and adopted America as your homeland.”

Agreed. What you call yourself has little to do with any
of this.

“That's what all the immigrants of old(the late 1800',early 1900's) did they took pride in learning English and becoming part of American Culture but also had pride they taught of their heritage to their kids but they still called themselves AMERICANS FIRST”

Ummm, no. See report link earlier. Also see groups like the
Nativist / Know Nothing / American Party of the mid 1800s
And TR’s speech on hyphenated Americans. You are glossing
Over the real history to make it more rosy than it actually was.
Phyllis would totally approve.


The challenge to readers is still open:
1. define American culture (limit your response
to one TH post)
2. When was the Unites States NOT a multiculutural country?
3. Can you be proud of a heritage that originates
outside the U.S. and still be an American? Explain.

Sophie
"Would you support your country even if it was in opposition to your christian values?"

Sophie, this country's values ARE in opposition to Christianity.

It's just that the others are much worse.

Magna Carta vs. previous codes
The Magna Carta checked the king previous codes
did not.
If the king wanted to tax he had to ask the
nobles first.

Edna
The Romantic, Heritage-issued, Hallmark Card picture that you paint of "immigrants of old" is just fantasy. All four of my grandparents were immigrants, I could hardly exchange 3 sentences with any of them because of their lack of English speaking skills. My parents learned in school, not at home. In situations of emergency, they did the translating.

The town they came from had a large Finnish community. When Russia invaded the eastern borders of Finland, almost half the community went there to live because they believed it was a communist Utopia, fairer and more just than the U.S. But that's another story.

My grandparents were interesting, bright, hardworking people, but they weren't models for the little fairy-tales you tell your kids.

Edna
“Once you become an American Citizen you gave up the other country as a place to live and adopted America as your homeland.”

Untrue. Depends on your "old country" some allow dual nationality--e.g. Taiwan, others don't--the PRC, ROK. And other do in some cases and don't in others--Germany.



Good for you Edna!
This country desperately needs more parents like you.

I'm the product of post WWII politically-correct "textbooks." For many years, I've been continually working to free myself from the leftist brainwashing I suffered while growing up in a feminist/leftist/athiest household.

This week I'm picking up my first firearm (after enduring the mandatory 10-day waiting period). This is one of the most profound ways in which I declare my independence from liberalism.

material newer than 1960
Wow! that is missing a lot.
The best Lincoln scholarship has been done in
the last 20 years.

The same can be said of nearly every era.

It is true that the people's history as opposed
to the elite's history has entered into history
and textbooks to a much greater extent and so
has a focus on race, class, and gender, but I am of a mind that these are a good thing. Not
to mention the use of Cliometrics = history +
mathematics.

The field of world history did not really exist
until William McNeill's The Rise of the West
in 1964 - this don't trust under the age of
50 seems unrewarding to a serious student of
history

And students of history
the challenge to readers is still open:
1. define American culture (limit your response
to one TH post)
2. When was the United States NOT a multiculutural country?
3. Can you be proud of a heritage that originates
outside the U.S. and still be an American? Explain.


Anne said
"TH is when they're reprehensible, vile, foul, disgusting, posts such as sophie's"

Yeah, unlike Anne, who never says anything foul or reprehensible and continues to be the conservatives spokewoman, from who's mouth only flowers and little puppies emerge!

Recovered Lib
"This week I'm picking up my first firearm (after enduring the mandatory 10-day waiting period). This is one of the most profound ways in which I declare my independence from liberalism. "

What, you're going to blow all of our brains out? Should I warn the women?

textbooks and these tests
repost from earlier:


I celebrate the idea we should improve
our historical IQ.

But I can say that this is not a major problem.
As historians have made clear - students and
we can assume adults have for the last 100 years not known much based on these tests.
[So all this romaticization of pre-1960s test
did not help the test takers historical IQs]

Yet they fought and won WWII.
Defeated the Soviet Union in the Cold War.
And are currently home to the world's
preeminent political, military and cultural
power.

That said, more knowledge of history - all
history would be beneficial to us as individuals and the US as a whole.

See here for what I asserted earlier:
http://ed.stanford.edu/suse/news-bureau/displayRecord.php?t ablename=notify1&id=188


the challenge to readers is still open:
1. define American culture (limit your response
to one TH post)
2. When was the United States NOT a multiculutural country?
3. Can you be proud of a heritage that originates
outside the U.S. and still be an American? Explain.

Awe poor rum.dog: Another one who has

trouble with someone who stands up to you and your intellectually limited ilk?

Ooooohhh, so sorry.


Sophie
'Ken caught me in a typo too!"

Oh, Sophie, you're just making so much work for conservatives like Ken and
Recovered. Now they have a whole new group of Americans to hate!

So much venom, so little time.

As a blow against diversity
four major district and appeals courts have upheld localities' abilities to pass laws regulating what gov't owes illegal immigrants.

Four states and fed. courts gave imprimatur to town and city laws that restrict illegals' hiring, housing, and social services. One judge said that the complainants had no standing to sue the legal gov't of the US as they were illegally in the country to start.

Only PA turned town the Hazelton city laws on immigration on the grounds that those laws abrogated fed. statutes. That ruling is under appeal, and if that appeal follows the trend, higher courts may well endorse Hazelton for stepping up where the federal gov't has failed.

Illegal imm. is one of the greatest threats to Am. identity at this time. Maybe 20-30,000,000 (or upwards of 10% of the pop.) are illegals who apply for Soc. Sec., use hospitals for free, are granted welfare, in CA take up over 25% of the prison population, and flood pub. schools with non-English-speaking students who interrupt entire curricula and force the taxpayer to provide bi-lingual or English as a second language education, even as schools cut busing for sports and programs for gifted and talented, arts, and music.

In fact, Sophie
Recovered lib has warned us that as a gesture to his hatred of liberals, he is picking up a new gun today...

I'd definitely watch my typing skills, if I were you, you might end up as roadkill for Sarah Palin's sunday dinner.

public schools going downhill
Anne from PA writes

"Subject: sdf: re "material newer than 1960"

Which btw, is when our public school system started straight DOWNHILL!"

Considering that 1947 or 48 was the first year
over 50% of 8th graders went to 9th this is not
good. It is also not true. Tests like the
one mentioned here and NAEP and other tests
that have tested the same populations year
afer year show little improvement since 1970
but they show some improvement. (The SAT does
not qualify since the pool of test takers
grows nearly every year)

This in a country that has accepted more
immigrants than any country in history. And
Edna can tell you how bad they are at learning
English.

the challenge to readers is still open:
1. define American culture (limit your response
to one TH post)
2. When was the United States NOT a multiculutural country?
3. Can you be proud of a heritage that originates
outside the U.S. and still be an American? Explain.


(I'll check back tomorrow for answers)

LOL, Sophie
Does she sew the skins together before or after she serves them up?

(This is sort of a reference to "he-man" Doug Giles board yesterday on hunting, where conservatives bragged about all the animals they had offed and eaten in their lifetimes.)_

Anne (from Pa)
Put on your puppy-skins and go home.

Shoot...Anne From PA Carry on for me
Bloody creek is flooding towards the house
Wish me luck
edna

To Be One Or Many
America has always been a multicultural country for start to finish, where the many became one in purpose and spirit and libertyTo Be One Or Many

America has always been a multicultural country from start to finish, where the many became one in purpose and spirit and liberty.

Principle and law governs the universe, moreover it governs life and existence. Are we to suppose that we can ignore principle or law in our lives as we work together?

Diversity and equality create the oxymoron "DIVERSEQUALITY." They do not go together like a horse and carriage, they are divisive, and in fact cancel each other out.

You cannot claim diversity and maintain unity or harmony. There is only conflict where diversity rules, and nothing is right or nothing is wrong. This is ignorance to the nth degree. This is stupidity given a Doctorate degree.

Diversity compromises Liberty and freedom, because truth and virtue would no longer be part of the moral compass. No, no, no to diversity, because diversity fractures society and destroys unity.

True American patriots stand on principle, live and die for the belief that freedom is more than security, above diversity and is the only guarantee of equality and unity in the truth.

Diversity is a monster that is without principle mercy, liberty or equality in the truth. Diversity is not equality; it is the Bid Lie!

Every culture must adhere to Constitutional principles; and truth must be our mutual standard or there is no liberty at all.

Oh good grief!The intellectually limited

LIBERAL children are still here having a mud fight... Ugh!

Uh, rum.dum... in case you hadn't noticed, Town Hall is a CONSERVATIVE site... so if anyone should pack up and go home, it's YOU! :-)

Do you need directions? It's the door to the LEFT! :-) Duh!


Is there something about Am. identity
that attracts trolls?

Try Huff or Kos and make yourselves laugh silly at your witty sarcasm and sophisticatedly elucidated comments on conservatism, of which you know nothing as you know little else.

Liberals have given us $9 trillion in fed. debt (and about to climb a few trillion with the O in charge),

$39 trillion in Soc. Sec. unfunded obligations,

bankupted Medicare and Medicaid,

stagflation under Carter,

depression under FDR,

Vietnam under Kennedy and Johnson,

highest taxation ever under Clinton,

most scandals under Clinton,

and Jefferson (I keep $96,000 in my freezer), Spitzer (she was only a sex worker), Gov. Blago (f------g whatever, just pay me), Jesse Jackson (she was a love child), Al Sharpton (Tawana who?), McGreevy (pass the tutu), Stubbs (I seduced a 17-yr.-old male page--Congress applauded me), Barney Frank (Fannie/Freddie are all ok with me, also prostitution in my DC apartment), Schumer (on talk radio, we regulate pornography don't we--not enough for me), Nancy Pelosi (hires all non-union labor at her hotels and vineyards), and Harry (have I got a bridge for you) Reid (I never saw a piece of NV property I didn't want to buy).

Truman dropped the atom bomb and had a 22% rating when he was voted out of office--Bush has 29% (Cong. 8-11%), and all we hear is how terrible Reps. and cons. are.

Next year, when unemployment is 7% (it was under Carter) and printing money to pay for the stimuli has raised inflation to 10%, I'll be on TH laughing even more at the trolls.

Anne from PA said...
"But, the question is, why would anyone from the left, who OBVIOUSLY DISAGREES with anything Conservative, logon to TH in the first place?"

The answer is that in general, liberals tend to not shy away from information that is counter to their world view where as conservatives tend to look for information that reinforces their world view.

Obviously, these are just generalities, but Edna Eagle's views on education seem to support this anecdote.

Sophie: I couldn't agree more with you about putting humanity above nationality. Nationism is one of the most dangerous "isms" of all.

Everyone's facts
I'm actually still thinking about a definition of American culture, it's a good question.

As for pride in either American culture, or another that originates somewhere else, I think for me the questions are unanswerable. I certainly admire many things this culture, as well as other cultures, have produced, but why would I take personal pride in them?

Romans were extremely proud of their country and their culture, and had reason to be...their engineering skills were superb and many of their accomplishments were not seen again until the last century. But they also practiced slavery, were expansionist, and seem to have had little interest in empathy, so I guess my feelings would have been mixed.

William
"Nationism is one of the most dangerous "isms" of all."

That is such a stupid statement. No, it's not.

Chuck
Thanks for your well thought out response. Care to elaborate?

Wanna know what bothers me? Part 1
Akagi writes:
"Sorry, but this is not 1787. The US is part of a connected and diverse world."

Please don't be sorry. Only recall that the United States of 1787 existed in a world that was just as "connected" and "diverse" as this one is. There were "Mohammedans" and Turks and Barbary Pirates back then; there were Sub-Saharan Africans and Papists and Jews; there were Presbyterians and deists and Quakers. The Founding Fathers were aware of and informed about all of that, and much else besides. And just because there was no Internet then, does not mean they were not "connected" to the "world."

"Learning about other cultures, languages and the like is good for you. It allows you to be more marketable and easily navigate in a smaller, flatter and more diverse world."

Well, it is not any learning about other cultures and languages that bothers us at all. It is rather the appalling ignorance among "Americans" about our own culture and our philosophies of governance; about our Constitution and its uniqueness and power as a ruling document; about the history that has made this nation great and distinct among all the nations of the earth; and about the basic principles of English grammar and usage -- it is disgusting ignorance about these that is bothering us. Understand?

"[T]extbooks should be 'fair and balanced' showing the good and the bad of the American experience."

Well, if you ever find such a textbook in any government school system anywhere, please let me know. I would very much like to see such a unicorn. The only ones I've ever seen focus exclusively and ruthlessly on "the bad of the American experience."

To be continued


Sophie
"What is more important:

Being a christian or being an american?"

You speak from a different perspective than me and my answer won't make sense to you but they are not two different choices.

Unfortunately, that America no longer exists and I do not recognize what people today call "America" so the question is no longer valid.

William
You first. You made the assertion.

Sophie
Thanks for boiling world history down to a roughly 10 year period in a single European country in the mid-twentieth century

OK, everyone's facts
Here's how I would define American culture, ( as a culture, I want to make clear):

Materialistic
Empathic
Class-conscious
Religious
Noisy
Child-like
Fat
Impatient
Incredibly puritanical
Kind-hearted
Sense of fairness
Idealistic
Mutable
Highly socialized

I see American culture as innovative, Impatient, Empathic and essentially kind, with a strong sense of fairness and fair play which is oftn misplaced but is always referenced. I think this culture is also very childish and child-like, which is revealed in our impatience, our unwillingness to delay gratification (shown by our obesity and desire for everything to work quickly), the way we fantasize and romanticize our cultural narratives, and our extreme puritanism.

We are mutable, open to new ideas more than many other cultures, are generous, boisterous (shown in our popular music and entertainment), idealistic, noisy, materialistic, class-conscious, not very introspective, and for now, highly socialized.

Sophie
One of the most patriotic countries in human history was nazi germany afterall.

Yes, that's true, but is there a difference in meaning between "patriotic" and "nationalistic"?

Before I look it up, I would guess that although much of what Americans call patriotism is actually nationalism, which is also inclusive of racism, fictional history, and a rigid, inflexible sense of loyalty.



William-FL writes: "... in general,

liberals tend to not shy away from information that is counter to their world view..."

Ha ha ha... Looks good on paper, but if that were the case they'd spend time and effort DISGUSSING the issues rather than immediately launch into name calling, insults, and put-downs.

Take a quick peek at rum.dog's and sophie's posts above. (And they're mild compared to most.)

"... where as conservatives tend to look for information that reinforces their world view."

And you KNOW that how? Well actually, you don't, but see the first part of this post!

You'd be amazed at the RESEARCH and reading of all kinds most Conservatives do... Really, you would! :-)

Wanna know what bothers me? Part II
Akagi also wrote:
"Having a monolingual, monocultural, 'American is the best ever' mindset does you no favors and you'll be left behind on the side of the globalization highway."

Look, a socio-cultural and political mindset that rejects a national language, which alone can unite us; that eschews respect for our fundamental philosophical and religious principles, which stabilize us; and that ignores the unique genius of our traditional governmental and social systems, which have preserved us, this is what does us "no favors" -- unless you think national self-destruction is favorable. And if you do, then you are beyond all reason, redemption and recovery anyhow. And please -- DO leave me by "the side of the globalization highway." Please.

"You can curse these turn of events all you want, but as the saying goes there is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come."

Yeah, OK, whatever. But aren't we still waiting for that time to come when socialism is better than the free market, when feminism is better than a healthy family, when agnosticism is better than faith, and when statism is better than libery? Just askin'.

"Reading Locke, Hobbes, Rousseau and de Tocqueville (the ideological fathers save de Tocqueville of the American ideology) is great, but so are other works--non-Americans and non-Western works as well, history of the US is great."

Fine. What I want to know is, where are those authors in our national discourse and academy anymore? "Gay" studies we have coming out of our pores; identity politics, victimology, the theories of racial resentment -- all this we have in droves. Where is Locke? Blackstone? Just askin'. And we don't need Rousseau.

To be continued


Sophie
"You avoided my other question as well...

Is an american life more valuable than a non-american's?"

Didn't know you asked it.

No. Not more valuable. As a comparison.

Sophie
Well, I went to http://www.dictionary.com.

The essential difference seems to be that nationalism is basically chauvinistic, and that it holds that one's nation is superior and the only country which is of importance. It is also defined as "fanatical patriotism".

I'm not comparing the US to Nazi Germany, of course, but the definitions of both patriotism and nationalism can apply to both in most ways.


David S.
"Look, a socio-cultural and political mindset that rejects a national language, which alone can unite us;"

That's ridiculous. Most of the world speaks English (usually, along with one or two other languages) and it has now become untenable to travel 100 miles without it.

This is a non-issue, drummed up by talk-show hosts when they are out of topics, similar to the "war on Christmas" or the "super highway" or the "trilateral commission is going to destroy us" issue. It is identical to all the TH posters who were warning us that Obama was going to form a communist army and rise up on California shores to turn Washington into a gulag.

Give me a break.

chuck
"Unfortunately, that America (religious)no longer exists and I do not recognize what people today call "America" so the question is no longer valid.

Grow up, Chuck. The America you are dreaming about never did exist, this is what I meant by the romanticization of our cultural narrative.

Wanna know what botthers me? Part III
Akagi wrote further:
"But understanding world history is just as important which is why public and private schools teach it."

Who ever said that learning world history is not important? What we are saying is that to subjugate, to annihilate our own national identity in the name of some globalist, utopian pipe dream is not only suicidal but senseless. What is the point? What will the other nations gain from it even if we do? How silly is this thing going to get?


"You do your child a great disservice by ignoring the rest of the world-its history, its philosophy and the like. In fact I'd say it borders on educational malpractice."

No one is ignoring "the rest of the world." We are expressing a legitimate pride in what we have done well and striving to learn from where we have erred. What is the problem?
But if you want to see "educational malpractice," you need look no further than the teacher's unions and the federal and state education departments. Abomination, baby.

"Again, the US is not the center of the world, even if many of its citizens like to think it is."

But the whole point is that we ARE CITIZENS of these United States. And that is what CITIZENS do: They celebrate national achievements; they cherish national treasures -- traditional Western and American culture, in this case. What is the problem?!?
No the U.S. is not "the center of the world." So what IS, in your opinion?
In any case, center of the world or not, it is OUR COUNTRY, and we LOVE it.
What is the problem?!?
Dang.


Nothing 'ridiculous' about the truth
rum.dog wrote this:
" ' "David S.
"Look, a socio-cultural and political mindset that rejects a national language, which alone can unite us;" ' "
"That's ridiculous. Most of the world speaks English (usually, along with one or two other languages) and it has now become untenable to travel 100 miles without it.
This is a non-issue, drummed up by talk-show hosts when they are out of topics … "

To which I reply: I don't care WHO speaks WHAT and WHERE, because in this country, there has long been an aggressive assault on English as our national language. This is where I want to see English honored, and it is NOT. Rather, "bilingual education" in the government schools robs poor children of any chance to ever succeed within this environment -- except as slaves of the state.
This is part of the drive to destroy our nation by selling us out to a globalist -- read communist -- putsch that aims to overrun us with ignorant mobs and rob us of sovereignty, and to enthrone tyrants who hate our experiment in self-government and want to enslave us to world communism.
All such are welcome to stuff themselves. I resist them.
And as for those talk-show hosts, they will NEVER run out of topics -- thanks to the "liberal," "progressive," "enlightened" liars who never cease trying to subvert and destroy America.
Losers.

Nationalism vs. Patriotism
I think I'm stealing this, possibly from Shaw, but I've always thought of patriotism as one's love of their own country and nationalism as the other guys love of his country.

Chuck: nearly every conflict in the 19th, 20th and 21st century has had nationalism as one of it's causes. And by extension, artificial-nationalism created by colonial powers has also been responsible for much suffering (i.e. most of sub-Saharan Africa, Israel, the Balkans, etc...)

Anne PA said...
"Ha ha ha... Looks good on paper, but if that were the case they'd spend time and effort DISGUSSING the issues rather than immediately launch into name calling, insults, and put-downs."

It seems to me Akagi was trying to "disguss" the issues but Edna was spoiling for a fight so she nit picked one of his responses and then you joined the band wagon.

But hey, what do I know?

decision
well, as an unbiased observer,i have to give the decision to the liberals on this thread.sorry,i call 'em as i see 'em.

Losing our America
I agree with your article completely. Not only are we raising a generation of unknowledgeable people, but we are raising a generation of people who have no pride in being productive, independent and self-sufficient. They want to be taken care of by the government and they feel entitled to hand-outs for doing absolutely nothing. Our schools no longer allow God to enter and "The Pledge of Allegiance" is not allowed. Everyone who is upset by the way things have changed - not for the better - should speak up and make your vote count. We have to elect people of good moral character, who want to do what's best for our country instead of career politician's who want power and money. Every person should be given a copy of the Constitution and be given a test on it before they are allowed to vote. Just like you have to pass a written test to drive a car! Your vote can effect everyone, so it is important that you understand what you are doing. We are already in the middle of a Constitutional crisis because Obama refuses to provide documentation to prove his eligibility to hold the office of President. Most people don't understand the big deal regarding this issue and that is because they have never read the Constitution. Our form of government is based on the Constitution, every elected official and military person takes an oath of office to support and defend the Constitution, yet Obama believes he does not have to meet the requirements set forth in the Constitution to serve as President. This is arrogance to the MAX! We have been quiet for too long - NO MORE!

What came first the chicken or the egg?
What came first the chicken or the egg?

Religion or the constitution, which came first?

A belief is not a religion, nor is a religion a belief.

Most correctly, a religion is an institution that is founded on true principles, guided by their knowledge and understanding of truth. Moreover, with the experience, knowing that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely the American Constitution came out of our multicultural and multi-religious, or diverse beliefs.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, which among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

'These words—called by historian Joseph Ellis "the most potent and consequential words in American history" came to represent an ideal for which the nation should strive, notably through the influence of Abraham Lincoln, who popularized the now-standard view that the Declaration's preamble is a statement of principles through which the United States Constitution should be interpreted.'
--From Wikipedia

It has been by device and ignorance that the Liberal minds use, covert, divisive and deceptive means to promote their philosophy of "live and let live" while the fail to admit that it also means, die and let die. "Do unto others before the do unto you,” as apposed to “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

In truth, in knowledge, in wisdom and understanding we cannot afford to allow diversity to put preference before principle or law, or the disciplines that make us the greatest nation under God, one nation out of a multitude of people, religions, and cultures to work and live as one in truth and virtue. Harmony results when we do, but creates discord when we do not. We are free to choose, but the consequence of not doing so will surely follow in kind.

Nice try, Sophie -- forget it
You wrote:
"Not even in 'communist' San Fransisco schools are children being "taught to subjugate, to annihilate our own national identity in the name of some globalist, utopian pipe dream"

Well, YOU get a grip. They get taught Native American pagan rituals, but nothing about the Puritan Pilgrims that is not unbridled slander and fiction. Don't make me laugh, Sophie.

In New York City the government "education" establishment sought to introduce Heather's two lezzie mommies and Daddy's sweet little "roommate," to teach children to reject the traditional views of their parents and embrace the propaganda of anti-family, anti-Christian, anti-traditional elitists.
No vote, no debate, no nothing -- not until outraged parents got wind of it and raised holy fire. Even then, these noble "professionals" kept pushing, and other forms of the same gay garbage are now part of the "curriculum." These connivers can't even respect parental authority. They will surely not respect the Constitution. YOU get a grip.
Meanwhile, the daughters of The Papaya Messiah will be attending a school that "emphasizes consensus." Whose "consensus"? Presumably, not that of those who respect our constitutional republic.
You wrote:
"All over this country, students are taught american history and to take a healthy realistic pride in their country."
Of course they are, Sophie. That is why the average score on that American civics quiz was 49 percent. These kids are learning nothing of what you falsely claim, Sophie. But they will learn to bring in vegetables for the homeless on Wednesdays. They will learn junk science in the name of UN environmentalism. YOU get a grip.
Sophie, I can see that you yourself are quite the expert on "fabrication."
Go sell it somewhere else, girlie.

G'grief someone said....
Obviously, these are just generalities, but Edna Eagle's views on education seem to support this anecdote.

A 8 year old kid reading the literary classics in their original manuscript, learning Latin, and working at a fifth grade level is a bad thing??? Her getting 78% on an adult civics test by ISI is BAD?

The fact that my 8 year old is doing work 3 or more levels higher than her peers is a bad thing
Malpractice some called it...because I don't allow "R U w/me on thz" as acceptable communication skills I was told I'm cheating my child

You people who said that, need to get a grip

I expect my little American to shine and be the best she can be...And she does that quite well.. with out the indoctrination camps called public schools thank you.

You politically "correct" liberals have some seriously warped ideas and I want NO part of them take your diverse low standards and put them where the sun don't shine.

Education of Yester-year vs Today's
Something is definitely wrong with our education system to see our students flunk these basic questions about America. I was required to recite the preamble to the Constiution and memorize the Bill of Rights, of all places, in middle school. We were tested on them to make sure we learned them. Last July I emailed our state's department of education to ask if they provided civics classes in our schools. I have yet to receive a reply; which means they do not. For shame. This is probably why those who subscribe to Town Hall came up through this same educational process as I did to manifest the more than casual interest we have in our government and politics.

Kent, It used to be:
Before you entered Jr High you had to be able to recite Lincoln's Gettysburg address as well.
No more...
Pride and Respect are gone as well demonstrated on this thread.

Kids are reading King and King (story of two gay princes who get married) instead of Great
Expectations by C.Dickens or Swiss Family Robinson or Treasure Island (unabridged versions) Now, they have "modernized" aka dumbed down versions and people wonder why America's report card is horrific.

That's why I used pre-1960's books (though everyone thought It only to text books) and jumped down my throat.
The sad fact is they probably look at their kids and say they couldn't/wouldn't do that it would bore them to tears or the language is irrelevant..no it's beautiful and the gift of the English language is that a gift but it's been reduced to poor spellers who rely on spell check and MS word.

You did a good job, Sophie,
holding the line while I was gone.

Of course Leave it to Beaver was real!!! So were Ozzie and Harriet!!! And David and Ricky!!
and Lucy!!

My family was exactly like that.

correction ...accidental omission
I mistyped:
That's why I use pre-1960's books (though everyone thought It only to text books)

Corrected type
That's why I use pre-1960's books (though everyone thought it only applied to text books)

It's late and I'm tired and I still have to finish pumping from the flooded creek that ran into my cellar.
G'night all

MOD MARK...hide no...protect yes...


We should not hide the real corrupt, in more ways than one, world from your kids. But as a parent I will protect my kids from this corruption until they are old enough to truly understand what they are hearing and seeing in this terrible world in which we now have to live. Once they are adults they to can chose and make their own way. And I am confident they will and have grown into outstanding adults; with kids of the own and they too are protecting their kids from the corrupt and immoral world in which we live. For they understand the consequences if they do not.


David
"They get taught Native American pagan rituals, but nothing about the Puritan Pilgrims that is not unbridled slander and fiction. Don't make me laugh, Sophie."

David, David, David! You are really telling us that the American school system is so busy using the NCLB act to convert children to native American religion and diss pilgrims? That they are trying to get their little students to switch gender preferences?

Why is it that you constantly distort what seems like some story you read somehwere, blow it up into a giant generalization, and pronounce it as truth?

The people you lie about, wrongly accuse, and who make you literally sick with fear constitute over 1/3 of the American population.

Who's the America-hater here?



Neal
"they too are protecting their kids from the corrupt and immoral world in which we live. "

This is so sad. In fact, you, Edna, and David all make me sad. It must be a terrible life to constantly see the world around you as corrupt, corroded, evil. I feel sorry for your kids and grandkids.

What's astonishing is how you all love to claim America but you never waste an opportunity to condemn the country, the culture, or the people who live here. You fictionalize the past and pretend that somehow, if you just could find a way back (which is also a way back to segregation, domestic violence, secret child abuse, polio, just to mention a few of the wonderful privileges) your life would be perfect.

You don't need the past, guys, you need a good therapist and an SSRI for your serotonin. And, if you are particularly religious, I don't think that's doing much for you, either.

Edna
I'm sorry your house is taking in water, that's a terrible experience, I've been through it.

But pre-1960 books? Are you serious? Do your kids know anything about Martin Luther King, Little Rock, the first moon landing, Shakespeare, poetry, world religions?

I once read that the conservative movement started in the 60s, because there were people who were not up to the changes and couldn't handle it. Were they writing about you?

it's over
Diversity is now what people want, not assimilation. It began in earnest about 25 years ago. Today, what people think is what they think. "Whites" are historic oppressors, "Hispanics" are victims, Obama is an oppressed minority. You cannot even challenge any of these kinds of incorrect things at most universities and in government.

This will generate lots of future problems. Think of what it did to Kosovo -- at one point a Serbian place but due to immigration an Albanian place. It might be worse in the United States since in Yugoslavia there was an attempt for 45 years to assimilate diverse groups -- here the reverse has been going on for a long time.

rum dog and William
rum dog:

"Grow up, Chuck. The America you are dreaming about never did exist, this is what I meant by the romanticization of our cultural narrative. "

Yeah, you're probably right. But tell me you can identify anything "American" that you feel a loyalty to today.





William :


"Chuck: nearly every conflict in the 19th, 20th and 21st century has had nationalism as one of it's causes. And by extension, artificial-nationalism created by colonial powers has also been responsible for much suffering (i.e. most of sub-Saharan Africa, Israel, the Balkans, etc...) "

My mistake. I see your point. I was confusing patriotism with nationalism.

confusing patriotism with nationalism
They're the same thing.

William
Patriotism is one of the most dangerous "isms" there is?

Now that's just goofy.

re: Ken
quote: ""Victory of fascism in WW2? Noble."

HUH??? Fascism LOST in World War II.

Besides, I would hardly consider a "victory of fascism" to be "noble."

I advise you to do a little proofreading before you post. "

Woops! Obviously I mentioned "victory OVER". Unfortunately, they don't let you edit your posts.

Hating Christian Textbooks
Matthew WV (Reply #2) claims to know "what we need". He pontificates: "I hate the textbooks used by private christian schools as they tend to majorly distort reality." He says this in the same breath as claiming to be for diversity. Like many insincere advocates of diversity, what is really intended is not genuninely diverse diversity, but merely anti-Christian collectivist diversity.

Our family home-schooled for years, so have experience with over a dozen publishers who specialize in home school curriculum as well as more general publishers some of which have little interest in helping home schoolers. We've used home school publications, public school publications, publications from outside the education field. We have not found that home school publications, including Christian, Jewish, and Muslim - all three of which we have used and continue to use - distort reality any more than other publications. It would be nice if people who claim that Christians intentionally distort reality "majorly" or any other way, would provide a list of examples. All publishers whom I have had opportunity to contact on various issues relating to their curricula have demonstrated sincere desires to correct any "distortions" that are pointed out.

(Homeschoolers and other educated people begin proper nouns with capital letters, such as "Christian".)

More faithless, lebereal tripe
If you feel you must spread your socialist horse dung on concepts such as patriotism, of which you have no concept; please do so on some suitable lib blogosphere. That way you can share your love for the destruction of this country with those of your kind.

The rest of us would like to discuss what if any options we may have slow down Marxist socialism, the destruction of western civilization, the extinction of individualism, and so on.

Why you faithless, mono tone, souless people would have any interest in these things is beyond me. Go away now; and play with some razor blades on the freeway.

Our History
Do they teach about an American institution that lasted for more than 200 years and subjected as much as 15% of the population to unspeakable horrors.

I'm speaking of slavery.

Do they teach about the Civil Rights Movement? It was only 40 years ago that Martin Luther King was assissinated.

Do they teach about segregation, voter suppression and lynching?

Isn't this also part of our American identity?

RALPH
A few questions for you...

Which two countries led the effort to abolish the world-wise accepted practice of slavery?

Which countries opposed these efforts?

Which ethnic groups have never been forced into slavery?

Which ethnic groups never owned/used slaves?

On a global scale, when did slavery begin and end?


This will definitely be a test of your knowledge and integrity.

Correction
"world-wide" ...it's early.

The key idea is BASIC
I don't dispute Schlafly's argument that public school curriculum has a built in hostility to American identity. After all, the school is a government agent of socialization that assumes it is essential. By implication this means that other, non-government institutions are inadequate. Actually, it goes further than that. They must actually be bad - an idea which justifies the school (i.e. government) taking over the functions of those other institutions.

Regarding the lack of knowledge of basic civic information, however, that can best be attributed to stupidity. While all people who don't know the three branches of government can't be classified as stupid, a great many can. For these people, remembering three words (Executive, legislative and ju.....) is a stretch. Remembering the different functions of each branch is pretty much out of the question and understanding how the three separate components work as a whole (which requires analytical ability)is a mental function limited to a minority of the population. At best, the typical student can hold some of this information in their head for a brief period of time and can parrot someone else's analysis but not do their own.

It is certainly true that many leftist teachers substitute ideology for civics and history, which would mean that 100 percent of their class would not get adequate exposure to basic information. If they did, only about 5% of the class would remember it anyway. As a matter of fact, most of the students in a left wing class can only parrot back a few slogans of leftist ideology and really don't understand it either. By definition, this means they don't know what they're talking about.

Rumdog asked
But pre-1960 books? Are you serious? Do your kids know anything about Martin Luther King, Little Rock, the first moon landing, Shakespeare, poetry, world religions?

Yes,of course we do that to not do it would cheat them and learning about different things and cultures is fun.
I teach respect for them however I don't emphasis/glorify them. They exist, know enough to understand, but, America first.

However back to books, Have you looked at some of the junk coming out as "reading" books...The grammar is horrid, the topics are just re-worked classic's. To give credit where credit is due the Harry Potter series is good and a new spin even I enjoyed it. I prefer my daughter read The Hobbit instead of Eragon but she read both.
Let me think..Swiss Family Robinson or "Lost, TV show" hands down win, Swiss Family Robinson...see what I mean..pound for pound the classics have more entertainment value.

chuck; patriotism and nationalism
They are the same. Patriotism is one of the most dangerous "isms". Think of it like a gun. Perfectly safe in responsible hands, but you wouldn't want to give a crate of them to a bunch of fanatics.

If you think they are different, what is the difference? I still maintain that "love of your own country" is patriotism and "the other guys love of his country" is nationalism. Same thing.

Over here, Rim Dog … Part I
OK, Troll, let's roll.

rum.dog wrote:
"You are really telling us that the American school system is so busy using the NCLB act to convert children to native American religion and diss pilgrims? That they are trying to get their little students to switch gender preferences?"

Yes. Exactly.

You wrote:
"Why is it that you constantly distort what seems like some story you read somehwere, blow it up into a giant generalization, and pronounce it as truth?"

Well, why is it that you perennially blow gas out of your large intestine and then waste everyone’s time pretending you are actually engaging in legitimate debate and that you know what you are talking about? Listen to me Mocker: This is not your forum. This forum is for serious adults.

To be continued

Over here, Rim Dog … Part II
Let's continue, Troll:

And why do you lift your leg and spray baseless accusations about as if they were facts? The example I cite about the Children of the Rainbow Curriculum crime in New York City is something I observed and experienced firsthand. I was involved in the resistance against that perpetration of government abuse of authority. I lobbied and debated city officials to fight it; I wrote letters published in newspapers to expose it; I ran for elected office to try to stop those usurpers responsible.

I SAW IT and I LIVED IT. I did NOT "read" it somewhere. Them's is the facts, Troll.

I don't care what you think about any of that or about anything else, Troll. I mention it only to expose you before everyone here as the simpering blowhard you are and to show that you haven't a clue what you are blabbing about.

You wrote:
"The people you lie about, wrongly accuse, and who make you literally sick with fear constitute over 1/3 of the American population."

I don’t care WHO constitutes WHAT.

I feel no “fear” in the face of the slanderous and the ignorant.

Who is lying here, Troll? Who is "wrongly accusing," Mr. Proverbial Fool?

You wrote:
"Who's the America-hater here?"

You are.

This is my final word to you, Troll.

Re: my own test based on posters
1. define American culture (limit your response
to one TH post)
2. When was the Unites States NOT a multiculutural country?
3. Can you be proud of a heritage that originates
outside the U.S. and still be an American?

1. Any element of culture that is homegrown and or unique to America is "American culture." This could range from Ragtime music to the relative mass popularity of guns and hunting in the middling classes. There are thousands of other examples. I would also add that I think that American culture is shaped by America's unique history. For example, American's propensity for risk acceptance vis-à-vis Europe has a genesis on the frontier where Americans had the opportunity to take on the considerable risks of moving west to in order to acquire new land and riches. The original colonists who founded (who were roughly 90% from the British Isles as of the first US census) America have also left an indelible cultural mark even though their genetic imprint as a percentage of the population has become more diluted due to the addition of immigrants over the years. Our language, as well as, political, legal, and economic system has a distinctive Anglo legacy. In summary, what makes American’s different (often to the chagrin of the left) is what makes us uniquely American. That is the kind of diversity I am proud to celebrate and embrace. It is about abiding love of country, not “hate” as some would sanctimoniously presume. Yes, we have so much in common with the universal brotherhood of man--that is a wonderful thing. But restricted within limits (e.g. nationalistic extremism, etc.), having a strong and positive national identify augments our experience as human beings.

Re: my own test based on posters
1. define American culture (limit your response
to one TH post)
2. When was the Unites States NOT a multiculutural country?
3. Can you be proud of a heritage that originates
outside the U.S. and still be an American?


2. I think a better question would be, “are there any countries on earth that you could argue that don’t have a history of having multi-cultures and minority ethnic groups in them?” Yes, the United States has always had lots of cultures and minorities within its borders, but that doesn’t mean that it hasn’t had unifying cultural elements that spring to mind when outsiders think of America. I was born in 1967 and I can’t recall being exposed to the concept of “multiculturalism” or “diversity” as slogans and ideologies until about the 1990’s. This lack of browbeating never prevented me from learning about and appreciating other countries or cultures. This gets to the point of contention that many conservatives have with multiculturalism which many of us view as a weapon to culturally cleanse what is uniquely American. I think the best insight has been made by the author Mark Steyn who points out that multiculturalism as an ideology is less about appreciating other cultures and more about denying and denigrating one’s own. It also seems to exclusively endemic to rich Western countries which I think raises interesting sociological questions in its own right.

Re: my own test based on posters
1. define American culture (limit your response
to one TH post)
2. When was the Unites States NOT a multiculutural country?
3. Can you be proud of a heritage that originates
outside the U.S. and still be an American?

3. Of course one can be proud of heritage that originates outside of the United States. However, if you are going to abandon your native land to ride the coattails of another country in order to capitalize on the economic and political benefits, please realize that for the sake of that other country's well-being you must conform to a large degree to the culture that is already there. It is called gratitude and common sense. This is an interesting argument as to exactly how much and in what way immigrants should conform, but I would argue that speaking English in public is a must. I will end by leaving you with a great quote from TR, "The man who loves other countries as much as his own stands on a level with the man who loves other women as much as he loves his own wife." Enough said.

Re: my own test based on posters
3. Of course one can be proud of heritage that originates outside of the United States. However, if you are going to abandon your native land to ride the coattails of another country in order to capitalize on the economic and political benefits, please realize that for the sake of that other country's well-being you must conform to a large degree to the culture that is already there. It is called gratitude and common sense. This is an interesting argument as to exactly how much and in what way immigrants should conform, but I would argue that speaking English in public is a must. I will end by leaving you with a great quote from TR, "The man who loves other countries as much as his own stands on a level with the man who loves other women as much as he loves his own wife." Enough said.

Jeffrey's Own Test Based on Posters
Hey, Jeffrey,

Thank you for a very intelligent post -- one of the very few on this or any other Townhall thread.

Thank you for actually contributing to a legitimate debate, using ideas that you have evidently thought out and presented clearly and soberly.

Thank you for ideas that can inspire and encourage my own thinking and growth, and from which I believe I can actually learn something.

Thank you for your respectful and civil tone and spirit, which restores some level of civility to this forum.

Above all, thank you for returning this thread to its original point and to the news article that engendered it.

I am sick of the left-wing and sophomoric trolls that prowl this forum, wasting our time and proving to us why they are vastly unqualified to speak, vote, govern or participate in a constitutional republic -- as if we needed any such evidence.

But thanks again for your proper and respectable post.

Over here, Mad Mark
I just got finished dealing with that other troll. Now I turn my attention to this one. OK, Troll, let's go.

Mod Mark wrote:
"So you want to hide the real world from our kids, where gays don't exist and all kids are raised by a happily married couple."

No, I do not want to "hide the real world" from children. I want children to know these things at an age-appropriate time. And I want them to know the truth: That those "gays" are narcissistic and miserable, that those "gays" are protected by a cynical and power-obsessed political class, and that those "gays" are increasingly aggressive and predatory.

You wrote:
"Lets keep the fairy tales for bedtime ok?"

Sure, that's what I'm trying to do -- keep those Fairies' Tails inside their own filthy bedrooms and away from innocent children.

I don't care whether you like it.

You wrote:
"And just how did you get elected as spokesman for all parents?"

You are a bore. Do you know that?

You wrote:
"I for one have no desire to shield my kids from the truth."

Good. Who cares?

You wrote:
"It is a different world today and there is no turning back."

So? Doesn't mean you aren't going to self-destruct. I'm glad.

That's my last word to you, Troll.

Hello, troll No. 3
You're welcome, Annie.

I'm here to help.

Diversity Does not Promote Equality
Patriots are loyal supporters who protect their country and their way of life. If we are not patriotic, we are spoilers causing division. Division is not the mark of a strong individual much less of a strong nation.

We are free to choose, and in so doing we determine the direction of our own life, good for good and ill for ill.

"The virtues and values that we hold to be true are the virtues and values that will crown us with victory."
Phillip L Hansen
"Virtues and Values to Cherish" Sept. 1, 2005

"Behavior and action are considered most important, while attitude and disposition are almost ignored, yet they are the composer and director behind the scenes."
"Behavior is a child of one's attitude and disposition, born out of spiritual and emotional values cherished and nurtured."
-- Phillip L. Hansen
The Roots of Human Behavior

If we fail to cultivate the values and virtues of a loyal, honorable, strong character, we are incapable of personal self-mastery and unqualified to serve others faithfully. "If we fail to tame and train our own nature we are of an unreliable character, incapable of loyalty to ourselves much less to others." --Phillip L. Hansen

"The constitution was written for a moral people, and it will serve no other." --Thomas Jefferson

The constitution was frame so our multicultural nation can govern the diversity of the American people, because they sought unity that overcame the divisive conflictive nature of diversity to enjoy equally the opportunity of the American dream.

Mastery is about overcoming weakness and the folly and ignorance in diversity, which conforms to the base in human nature. The purpose of the executive branch is to administer the commonwealth or nations business in accordance to the laws legislated and enacted by congress and enforced by the judiciary branch.

One more thing, sophomoric troll No. 3
And by the way, Annie:

If you are truly, truly dissatisfied with my "hypocrisy," then you are most welcome to leave.

And I wish you would. This is our forum, not yours.

You are looking for the Looney Lefty forum next door, and that is where you belong. Notice that WE do not go THERE, but you losers LOVE to come over here.

Go figure.

I was thanking Jeffrey because he was bringing the discussion back to where it is supposed to be, and where it would have been all along, had we not had to waste time dealing with silly trolls like you -- but please, I mean that in the most civil, respectful way.

This, though, is my very last word to you, Silly Trollie No. 3, so I will in no case be wasting any MORE time with you.

Next troll, please.

"This is our forum, not yours"
David S.; actually, this is a free, public forum. You are just going to have to enjoy the diversity of opinion, such as it is at TH.

Anne is right, your comments about civility followed by comments about sophmoric trolls gave me a chuckle.

Jeffery OR
Great posts Jeffery!

I took a "music appreciation" class in high school, I didn't like all the music we studied, but I learned to appreciate it. I'd like to see people appreciate Christmas or any other traditional holidays/cultural events in America, even if they don't like or believe in it.

I love to learn other cultures, religions and traditions, I like some of it; some I don't but I can APPRECIATE them all.


William
Fair enough.

Textbooks and teachers
Keep up God's work Mrs. Schlafly. What if the schools did not teach History at school but every child had to take an on-line class to pass. That way we could keep the lunatics from filling our children's minds with garbage. History teachers are not really necessary.

Geoffrey and David S
David S. said: "I am sick of the left-wing and sophomoric trolls that prowl this forum, wasting our time and proving to us why they are vastly unqualified to speak, vote, govern or participate in a constitutional republic -- as if we needed any such evidence"


Geoffrey said:
\\If you feel you must spread your socialist horse dung on concepts such as patriotism, of which you have no concept; please do so on some suitable lib blogosphere. That way you can share your love for the destruction of this country with those of your kind.

The rest of us would like to discuss what if any options we may have slow down Marxist socialism, the destruction of western civilization, the extinction of individualism, and so on.

Why you faithless, mono tone, souless people would have any interest in these things is beyond me. Go away now; and play with some razor blades on the freeway.
---------------------------------------
Ya gotta love the conservative means of discussion and open, civil debate.

TH has to be more fun than a tree full of hummingbirds, more awesome than the lobster claw lady and the old freakshows.

Strife caused By Greedy Selfish Pride
The gift of vision is to see the world as if is. Some see the world as a reflection of their own prideful nature, others see the world as they dream and hope it may be. True vision is the ability to see the potential in all things for good or for ill matched with equal faith and understanding of how bring it to pass. The first see their ego, the next see the dream, and the last see the truth harnessed with purpose, faith, hope and charity; to live, serve and die for the truth that brings liberty to all humanity.

If opinions were buckets, they would not hold water because they have so many holes in them. If it is not true, why even say it. We should keep our opinions to our selves, except in a learning atmosphere.
Opinions should remain opinions if unproven or unverified as a truth or veracity. The assumption that, "my opinion is worth as much as your opinion is really true; a worthless unfounded assumption, until proven correct. What is the point otherwise?
We may first ask, "Is my understanding of a truth, a veracity of merit? Or is it a timeless truth without flaw?" If it measured by your truth or my truth, it is worthless, so what is the point, it is worthless until proven correct.
Is Truth What Was, What Is, And What Becomes?
This is not a paradoxical question of whether something was true in the past, is not true in the present or future, but asking, "At those times is or was it true, and if so is it true now, and in the future?" If always true in time, place and every condition, it is a timeless endless truth, it is eternal, always true. If it is conditionally true, as are the boiling point and the freezing point, they are true under those conditions without exception.

What I have stated is in principle, actually and really true. Our liberty hinges upon these principles of truth, and we should learn to understand and master them.

Joyce-Breaking the law here in AZ
I shamelessly break the homeschool law here in AZ.

I am required to teach: Grammar, Reading, Mathematics, Science,and Social Studies.

No way! I teach (along with Spanish, Latin and Greek Roots, Formal Logic, Literature, Music and Geography) Grammar, Reading, Mathematics, Science, and HISTORY.

Subject: Icedog
You miss the point.

No one denies that slavery has been around from time immemorial and was possibly practised (in various forms)by most civilizations. No one said tha the US was the only place on earth that practised slavery.

As for abolition there have been cries against slavery, again from time immemorial.

Do you understand the enormity of the Transatlantic Slave Trade? Do you know that it is commemorated by several countries as the International Day for the Remembrance of the Slave Trade and its Abolition.

The point of my post was that we should not gloss over the disturbing parts of our history. Yes, there was a time in our history when our fellow man was seen as less than human and then(within our lifetime) a lesser human.

I noticed that you steered clear of the Civil Rights Movement.

What do you think of that period of our country's history?

reply to posts #1
Was away from my computer yesterday so didn't
have a chance to post, but here goes:

The point that we cannot be diverse and united, but
that we are and have always been multicultural and
multi-national – does not make sense. Unless Spiceman0
is arguing we have never been united. I will agree
that as a people we need to have united beliefs –
inalienable rights and equality. That could do it.

Renny misses the fact that most of the budget deficit
was created under Republican presidents (who do
have a veto). That Obama will add to it – there is no
doubt, but McCain was going to do the same and so
would Bush if he were staying in office. This is a
non-starter. Far be it from me to stop your laughing,
though, however misdirected.

The world of 1787 was neither as diverse or connected
as today. It was connected and diverse, but since c.1492
the world has increasingly become more connected and
diverse (in many different ways).

Nationalism is one of the most dangerous isms – if we
can agree it was one of, if not the, major ingredient in
starting WWI and WWII. Patriotism, not so much.

There has not been an assault on English in this country
there has been an attack on the English-only crowd. As
the report I linked to earlier suggests Hispanic immigrants
are picking up English as fast or faster than the ones
Edna finds so commendable.


reply to posts #2
Mary writes: “I agree with your article completely. Not only are we raising a generation of unknowledgeable people, but we are raising a generation of people who have no pride in being productive, independent and self-sufficient.”

As the Wineburg article I referenced earlier shows students
around WWI failed these tests so didn’t the Greatest Generation
of test takers. No time in the last 100 years have these tests
been passed. Something to think about – in what ways is the
younger generations less or more productive, independent,
and self-sufficient – a good T-chart could be made.

The Pledge of Allegiance is allowed – maybe not in that one
town in VT – I don’t know how did that turn out? But everywhere
else, yes.

Mary, Obama has posted more on his birth certificate than any
President ever. T or F? This is dumb. You see but still don’t
believe.

David S. writes: “That is why the average score on that American civics quiz was 49 percent. These kids are learning nothing of what you falsely claim, Sophie.”

Actually that’s a misreading of the statistics which show that
the more schooling one has the better one scores on this test,
on average. Maybe they’re not teaching enough, but they are teaching
something as the results, on average, show. And again see Wineburg
article on the history of these type of tests.


reply to posts #3
Edna writes: “Kids are reading King and King (story of two gay princes who get married) instead of Great Expectations by C.Dickens”

Ummm, no King and King is a picture book about 32 pages.
To think that it is a large part of any curriculum is bogus.
It is generally used to make the point that there are different
kinds of families. Most interesting is that in the Lexington, MA
Case one of the student’s parents were of the same sex.
Maybe they should have been outlawed from picking up
heir child together!
The kind of bogus thing cons seem to not let go of – as in
they think all 180 days of a health class constitutes putting
a condom on a banana. Get a grip.

No one is against using books that date before the 1960s.
If that is all you use, you are missing a lot.

Joycey, the belief that the majority of kids will just go and study
US history on-line is a bit too simple to fathom. Why go on-line?
Why not books? But either way I think the kid would need an
adult to check on what they learned until they reach a certain age.
So, that is a good case for homeschooling. But homeschooling
is the most expensive type of education when one calculates the
parent’s lost income. I also think on average it is the best.


Answers to the test
The questions again:

1. define American culture (limit your response to one TH post)
2. When was the United States NOT a multiculutural country?
3. Can you be proud of a heritage that originates outside the U.S. and still be an American? Explain.

#1 All answers were correct

Jeffrey and rumdog and you if you had tried confirm
my belief that there is no American culture there are
American cultures. What ties Americans together
is not culture but beliefs.

That belief in inalienable rights is not part of American
Culture because it originated outside of the U.S. would
Disappoint many Americans. But Jeffrey is free to
Believe and he is right, for him. Rumdog’s list is also
right as well, for him. That these two are not close to each
other in definition is the whole point.

#2

We have always been a multicultural society.

Jeffrey so you learned what could be called multiculturalism
But it wasn’t called that so that was a better way to learn
“multiculturalism?” I think I got it.
The following I did not get:
And this was good and we are multicultural, but learning about
Multiculturalism denigrates ones own society which you have
admitted is our own? This is hard to follow.

#3

Jeffrey, sorry you got it only partially correct.
Americans have always spoken different languages – even
were allowed by law – reference American Indian tribes
and Mexicans after the Mexican-American War and Puerto
Ricans among others. So this part is wrong. Maybe some
day it will be right. And fitting in with American culture –
refer to answer #1

Just an *aside*
My Totally illiterate Great GrandFather talked a lot about "Sh8T-House Philosophers" which we seem to have in abundance on this thread!!
Another Favorite was:
When Ur in Alligators up to Ur ARSE, It's hard to remember that Ur Original Intent was TO DRAIN THE SWAMP!!! CHEERS!!

Diversity vs Equality
everyonesfacts
Location: MA
Reply # 4
Date: Jan 8, 2009 - 11:17 AM EST
----
Thank you for your well express and respectful post. You exemplify one of the very important attitudes and values we should all share.

Diversity is a natural state when two or more individuals share in any arena or environment. Diversity of thought, belief and intent and purpose are areas where we have diverse takes that may be in conflict because they may not be shared values; things all consider of merit.

Where the real conflict of diversity needs to be strictly shared are where, natural, national, local and spiritual laws are concerned. These laws must not interfere with good conscience, having knowledge or understanding of the ethics; but not situational ethics that promotes diversity and only adds to conflict with the standard definitions that do apply universally to all.

The best definition of ethics, in two parts states:
Standards apply to all cultures and faiths
- Things to be and things that ought not be
- Things to avoid and things to be sought

There are no two individuals who are alike. We are as diverse as are snowflakes. The sea and the shore line shape each other and seem to get along with that symphonic arrangement.

Modesty and morality in question: if what one considers moral, is in conflict with what another considers and infringement on their freedom that would violate the freedom of the former. While the former exercises restraint the other makes a mockery of ones liberty and call that freedom. The first lives by a principle, where the second violates the principle of schooling ones, thoughts, feelings and behaviors. Obviously the first is more respectful than the last. Diversity here out of bounds.