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Sunday, November 16, 2008
Matt Barber :: Townhall.com Columnist
Counterfeit Marriage and its Counterfeit Movement
by Matt Barber
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With a unified voice amplified several million-fold through the ballot box megaphone, African-Americans have spoken on the issues of marriage, family and human sexuality. Whether young or old, male or female, Democrat or Republican, blacks are justifiably fed up with the deceptive antics of the self-described and craftily contrived "gay rights movement."

For decades now, well-organized, well-funded and highly influential "gay" political pressure groups have, with impertinence, hijacked the language of the authentic civil rights movement. In what amounts to a sort of soft racism, self-styled "queers" have disingenuously and ignobly hitched their lil' lavender wagons to a movement which, by contrast, is built upon the genuine and noble precepts of racial equality and humanitarian justice.

An illegitimate offspring of the '60s sexual revolution, the newfangled "gay rights" cult is today's postmodern, sex-centric cause célèbre. Its core tenets include, among other things, mandated moral relativism, social androgyny and forced acceptance of a pleasure-based, though demonstrably destructive, lifestyle. Apart from practitioners of "the sin that dare not speak its name," its devotees are in large part institutional fringe elitists confined to blue-state America who almost universally suffer the insufferable pangs of white guilt.

Like an addict jonesing for a hit, they long for that rush of self-righteous affirmation associated with belonging to something perceived as larger than themselves. Central to the movement's success is the ability to draft adherents who are easily manipulated through superficial slogans, appeals to emotion via anecdotal parades of horribles, and a mindless propensity to conform to nonconformity.

By drawing artificial parallels between the systematic persecution experienced by blacks over centuries past to the inherent aversion most have toward biologically unnatural, traditionally immoral and objectively perverse sexual behaviors, the homosexual lobby trivializes and diminishes the African-American struggle for civil rights. It's dishonest and offensive for people who choose to define their identity based upon aberrant sexual proclivities to compare sexual temptation and volitional sexual conduct to immutable and innocuous biological traits such as skin color.

"Don't compare your sin to my skin," goes the African-American mantra. Or, as influential black pastor Ken Hutcherson notes, "It has been said loudly and proudly that gay marriage is a civil rights issue. If that's the case, then gays would be the new African-Americans. I'm here to tell you now, and hopefully for the last time, that the gay community is not the new African-American community."

Understandably, blacks want all this nonsense to stop. Exit polls indicate that in the Democratic stronghold of "left coast" California, African-Americans – 96 percent of whom voted for Barack Obama – also voted to pass California's marriage protection amendment (Prop 8) by an overwhelming 70 to 30 percent. As luck would have it, the unprecedented turnout of black voters for Obama very likely tipped the scale and restored the enduring definition of natural marriage to the Golden State. This has made "gay" activists mouth-foaming furious.

But black support for legitimate marriage and natural sexuality has placed liberal elites in a real tight spot. They can either attack the African-American community with the same vitriol and empty, ad hominem rhetoric they've hurled at evangelical whites and other traditionalists over the years, or they can ignore them entirely.

In the aftermath of Prop 8's passage, they've chosen option A. Although one might find it incongruous to tag blacks – a community intimately familiar with genuine discrimination and bigotry – with the "gay" lobby's favorite monikers of "bigot," "hater" and "homophobe" – homosexual activists are doing just that.

But they've slunk to the gutter deeper still. There have also been widespread reports of homosexuals hurling the N-word and other despicable racial epithets at blacks throughout California and elsewhere.

Even more troubling – something the mainstream media refuse to cover – are the many threats of violence against Christians and other supporters of Prop 8 popping up on numerous homosexual websites and elsewhere. Some homosexuals have even called for churches to be burned to the ground. In California, some of those churches have already been vandalized.

In a blog entry titled "You'll want to punch them" on Queerty.com, poster "Billy Bob Thornton" wrote, "… I have never considered being a violent radical extremist for our Equal Rights, But now I think maybe I should consider becoming one." "Stenar" asked, "Can someone in CA please go burn down the Mormon temples there, PLEASE. I mean seriously. DO IT." And, "Jonathan," warned, "I'm going to give them something to be f---ing scared of. … I'm a radical who is now on a mission to make them all pay for what they've done."

Meanwhile, over at JoeMyGod.blogspot.com, "World O Jeff," said, "Burn their f---ing churches to the ground and then tax the charred timbers," while "Tread," wrote, "I hope the No on 8 people have a long list and long knives." "Joe," stated, "I swear, I'd murder people with my bare hands this morning."

And on the Americablog.com website, "scottinsf" posted, "Trust me. I've got a big list of names of mormons and catholics (sic) that were big supporters of Prop 8. … As far as mormons and catholics ... I warn them to watch their backs."

And watch their backs they should. Here we have homosexuals both inciting and directly threatening violence against Christians and other supporters of Prop 8. This is not free speech; this is criminal activity. Imagine if Christian websites were advocating such violence against homosexuals. There'd be outrage, and rightfully so. It'd be national front-page news.

But it gets worse yet. In recent days, there have been headline-making "gay" riots marked by actual acts of violence against marriage supporters. In one instance, an elderly woman was assaulted by an angry "gay" mob. She was walking peacefully, carrying a large Styrofoam cross when she was knocked about by enraged rioters. They ripped the cross from her hands, threw it to the ground and stomped it to tiny bits. The surreal ordeal was a live-action metaphor for the "queer" rebellion against God's natural order and the hard left's not-so-thinly-veiled hatred of Christianity.

Finally, even more recently it's been reported that a group of about 30 militant homosexuals attacked the Mount Hope Church in Lansing, Mich. They reportedly pulled the fire alarm, stormed the pulpit screaming "Jesus was a homo," waved condoms, kissed one another and physically intimidated congregants in an attempt to provoke a violent reaction. Of course, the mainstream media will report on none of this. It doesn't fit the politically correct narrative. Homosexuals are the victims, you see, not the victimizers.

But good has, and will, come from it all. The left's venomous reaction to the passage of Prop 8 has showcased these people for who they truly are. It has removed the sublime mask, revealing an ugly and desperate countenance below. It has exposed the self-proclaimed agents of "tolerance" and "diversity" as the most intolerant, hateful and bigoted among us. It has revealed – as Scripture says of those trapped in homosexual sin – that they are "[given] over to a reprobate mind."

Yes, the mask is off and so are the gloves. It'll likely get worse before it gets better. But now is the time to stand firm ground. Thousands of years of history, every major world religion and uncompromising human biology have always had it right. Homosexual behavior will always be wrong and "same-sex marriage" forever a fantasy.

What God has cast asunder, let no man join together.

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About The Author
J. Matt Barber is Director of Cultural Affairs with Liberty Counsel and also serves as Associate Dean with Liberty University School of Law.
 
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Says it all for me..............
"These activists h8te God, they h8te those who believe in God, and ultimately their argument is with Him and against Him.

And if they believe America is uncomfortable as it is now, wait until they are faced with more eternal choices--should they choose to reject Him."

semper fi

To Pet Goat
Too bad your presentation of the "facts" is so selective. You failed to mention the multi-millions of dollars the mormon church has spent in humanitarian aid world-wide. Your prejudice does not lend you any credibility.





To Pet Goat
Too bad your presentation of the "facts" is so selective. You failed to mention the multi-millions of dollars the mormon church has spent in humanitarian aid world-wide. Your prejudice does not lend you any credibility.





To Pet Goat
Too bad your presentation of the "facts" is so selective. You failed to mention the multi-millions of dollars the mormon church has spent in humanitarian aid world-wide. Your prejudice does not lend you any credibility.





To Pet Goat
Too bad your presentation of the "facts" is so selective. You failed to mention the multi-millions of dollars the mormon church has spent in humanitarian aid world-wide. Your prejudice does not lend you any credibility.





To Pet Goat
Too bad your presentation of the "facts" is so selective. You failed to mention the multi-millions of dollars the mormon church has spent in humanitarian aid world-wide. Your prejudice does not lend you any credibility.





To Pet Goat
Too bad your presentation of the "facts" is so selective. You failed to mention the multi-millions of dollars the mormon church has spent in humanitarian aid world-wide. Your prejudice does not lend you any credibility.





Sympathy for the Devil
You violated their rights. OF COURSE they are going to target you. And they work to steal the minds of your children in the public schools. That is intolerable. If you would simply cease and desist from what you are doing, they wouldn't feel the need to do these things. Stop violating their rights, and they will stop targeting you. You have no sympathy from me. You deserve what you are getting.

Prop 8 will get overthrown, and by the time another such ballot initiative comes around again for another popular vote, it will be soundly defeated, because all the blacks who could possibly defeat it have already shown up but won't return, and the rest of society is changing. You are on the losing side of history.

What Would You Expect
Homosexuality is counterfeit in every way, so what would you expect from it's active practitioners.

Everyone who reads anything I have ever said may remember that at one time I was extremely liberal including being in favor of so-called "gay" rights---as stupid as saying "choice" is a right.

Anyway when I woke up to my selfishness and ego-centric ignorance I say "gayness" for what it is...self-obsessed denial of the only way that life works correctly. Don't give me the so called scientific evidemce my graduate work was in psychology---well until I figured I'd be better off with an M.B.A.

How difficult is it for someone who can walk and chew gum to see what "gays really are?"

Not very if you can think w/o submitting to failed or obviously stupid reasoning.

"You PUT IT WHERE?"

They want a "-ueer" nation Well, that doesn't even make sense. I was exposed to the culture in the extremes of my liberalism. They do not want NORMAL folk to know their real objectives. They are willing to force your children to accept their ways.

They can, and probably will, go to hell!

Recovering Liberal

As to wendy
30 states now prohibit homosexual marriage.

On nov. 4th another 1-15 million voted for one man, one woman for marriage.

Homosexuals in California did not lose a right. Marriage was never a "right" to begin with. Marriage has always been a privilege with requirements.

Wendy is on the losing side, and hates Christians. Wendy however has no problems with Muslims. Even thouigh Muslims murder homosexuals on a daily basis, and consider them "decay". Wendy has no problem with that.

Wendy thinks Chrsitians are bad people because they do not believe what she does.

Poor Wendy.

The pet goat spam
The 'no" side to proposition 8 from what I understand, outspent the yes side 6 to 1.

Makes pet goat look a tad foolish for omitting that small fact.

The mormon church for once walked the walk. They have my thanks, and at the first of the month, a donation with my gratitude for a job well done.

The good news
is a lot of Christians are speaking out in support of same sex marriage. I think it's dawning on Christians and other persons of faith that discrimination in intolerable, especially regarding something to fundamental as marrying a chosen mate. God made all of us, everybody is important.

It's hard for Christians of conscience to reconcile the ongoing legality of adultery and divorce, so despised by God, with illegal same sex marriage.

To 'Jeffrey' . . .
. . . those aren't "Christians," they've succumbed to the dictates of political correctness and moral relativism.

When I see these rampaging mobs storming into churches, I am reminded of "Kristallnacht" in Nazi Germany in 1938. I don't think it's a coincidence that these riots are taking place within the 70th anniversary of Kristallnacht.

To Jeffrey and Wendy and the rest
On another thread both of you were challenged to explain and defend your homosexual morality values.

Jeffrey and Wendy and the rest have all declined to answer,or comment.

Why? 10,000 homosexuals had a street fair in San Francisco in this summer, in the public square, and this is a photographic recordng of what they did.

http://www.zombietime.com/up_your_alley_2008/

So Jeffrey, I suspect you were there, you and Mellor,du, etc.

Comments? Or are you still to much of a coward to address it?

Matt Barber
tells it like it is. Homosexuals hate him for it, and call him sick and twisted, which actually and accurately describes themselves-- psychologically sick and sexually twisted. And they desperately, violently want to be called normal. It isn't going to work.

Degenerates
Yes, everyone who doubts what disgusting people these homosexuals are should take a look at the website: http://www.zombietime.com/up_your_alley_2008/

Take a glance at those photos, and if you ever had any sympathy for these so-called "gays," you'll never again support any so-called "rights" for these filty, morally rotten people.

just not true
"Homosexuals in California did not lose a right. Marriage was never a "right" to begin with. Marriage has always been a privilege with requirements."

That is simply factually untrue. The Supreme Court, back in 1967, declared that marriage is an essential civil right. That's not open to dispute.

Robert, another laugher.
Yeah Robert, sorry. Wrong again.

As usual with you, you pretend facts.

If marriage is a "right". Why then would you need a license,as well as other requirements?

I know of no other "civil right" that needs a permit to be exercised. Need a first amendment license Robert?

sigh
I posted this on another thread, but it bears repeating:

The very definition of bigotry is assigning attributes to a whole class of people based on the actions of a few. I don't need to defend what happened at San Francisco street fairs because I wasn't there. Are you willing to take responsibility for every action ever taken by every heterosexual? Are you willing to accept responsibility for the crimes committed by Mao and his party in China?

Of course not, and I wouldn't expect you to, because I understand that heterosexuals aren't one big identical mass. But you don't seem to be willing to view gays and lesbians in that way. And that's bigotry.

Marriage is a privilege
Marriage is restricted to those that qualify under the current laws of the state they reside in.

Those laws have been passed by elected representatives, and whose passage has been in accordance with the wishes of the elctorate. Those laws fall within the framework of the constitution and the bill of rights. To say different is silly.

A license to marry is given as long as ALL of the qualifications are met.

simple facts
"Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man.'" Virginia v. Loving, US Supreme Court, 1967.

You should do some reality-based research before accusing someone of making up facts.

No Robert, you whiff again.
You define Bigotry. To suit you!!!!

Once again you label the message you disagree with right out of the homosxual militant manual.

If in doubt use the word hate, bigotry, etc. to describe any message you can not refute.

The actions of a few? 10,000 homosexuals is a few? And the 2007 folsom street fair, where every fetish is observed ? 1% of the population is homosexual. This is no small segment.

And how many others would do the same thing, if they could?

As a typical homosexual militant you quickly grab the worst moments in human history, draw an analogy, and point out a lame arguement.

Robert=Lame.




Violence is deplorable
It doesn't matter whether it's committed by gays or straights, it's deplorable. Now do you really want to get into a debate over whether gays have been more violent to straights, or vice versa? Because that's an argument the religious right REALLY doesn't want to find itself in.

Robert, whiff #2
I know about Loving vs Virginia.

As usual, you misconstrue every legal arguement, or case, in any way you can to distort the meaning and outcome to fit what you have decided it fits.

Now, Robert, answer the simple constitutinal question I asked that you ignored and tried to change.

What civil right do you need a license to use? Need a license to post here Robert?

Requirements for free speech? Restricted to those who meet licensing requirements Robert?

anderson, one last time
And then I'm going to bed.

You say you know about Virginia v. Loving, but you don't actually say anything to contradict the simple quote I cited.

That's par for the course for you. Assert the other side is wrong but don't explain why. What's the point?

There Will NEVER be Homo Marriage
We will not be lectured or intimidated by those with nothing but contempt for the laws of God, Nature and Man.

ALL of those now state that marriage is defined as the union of one MAN and one WOMAN. This will never change.

Until you STOP TRYING TO DISTORT AND CO-OPT these laws, faith and militant homosexuality will remain unable to peacefully coexist.

So it's time for our leaders to make your stand. Preserve the liberties that a dozen generations of Americans have fought and died to protect. Or succumb to an anything-goes culture to please a tiny sect of the populous who insist on wearing their lifestyles on their sleeves.

Yes on 8 is the first step
The next one is voting out the judges who legalized gay marriage.

Bigotry vs. Morality
Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lies with mankind, as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be on them." To Robert, Wendy, and other homosexuals - I don't hate you, but as a Christian, I cannot accept your sin nor promote it when the Word of God clearly (in many places) calls it an abomination. Sadly you are deceived into thinking that this is normal and acceptable. I will pray for you because I love you, but I do not love your sin.

Beth PA
and "Kumbaya" to you too...
It's time to end this nonsense of homosexual "marriage" and put these depraved, selfish, self centered abominations back where they belong:

IN THE CLOSETS!

Gay marriage lack intelectual intergrity

The fact that Gays are only seeking the priviledge of marriage for their particular segement of society shows how narrow minded and selfishly focused they are.

How about the man that wants to marry more than one person? Perhaps one woman and one man?

How about two men in prison that want to marry to gain benefits behind bars?

How about people who would want to marry a pet? (cat/dog or whatever)

If people truely have a "Right" to marry as gays claim, then they should be able to marry whoever, or whatever they want.

You like 5 woman, marry all five woman.

You like children, marry children. If children are old enought to decide to get an abortion, they certainly are old enough to get married.

You like a tree, marry the tree.

You like your refrigerator, marry the refrigerator.

Egon
I never said we should not put an end to this. But to call names and hate in return you stoop to the very same level that they do. I am all for bans on gay marriage and marriage amendments to protect one woman/one man unions, but will not lower myself by calling names and hating these people. Be blessed! And by the way, Kumbaya means "Come by here", so yes, Lord, kumbaya!

Gay Civil Rights a Fraud
Thanks, Matt, for exposing the homosexuals' despicable attempt to use the Civil Rights movement to achieve their goal to distort the honorable tradition and definition of marriage as one man and one woman.

New York Senator Moynihan called it correctly many years ago. When he noted they was a widespread movement to define deviance down. In order to gain faux respectability the homosexuals want to destroy the time-honored institution for men and women.

First they mock our institutions then they destroy them as they did in the Catholic Church scandal.

Robert and his Rights?
To paraphrase James Carvel,
It's the BEHAVIOR stupid!

Point #1 The Rectum was not designed
to be a sexual organ (period)! Sodomy
is not a right (it's a wrong)...

Point #2 According to the CDC in Atlanta,
male homosexuals are FOUR TIMES more
likely to pass along a life threatening STD

Point #3 Your “UNHEALTHY” behavior and
Demands for reduced “Age of Consent” laws
for sex between adults and Children is WHY
you should not be allowed anywhere near
children... (March on Washington DC 1993)

Point#4 “The Pink Swastika” by Scott Lively
and Kevin Abrams explains the ORIGINAL
homosexual “Brown Shirts” and their tactics.
America beat those Nazi Perverts and we will
do it again, and again, and keep winning!

Point #5 That's why it's NOT OK to be Gay!
Now go and find yourself a nice DARK Closet
because there is NO Gay Gene and Homosexual Behavior is a choice!

Beth PA
Since when is defining a behaviour "name calling"?
The problem with being politically correct is that you can't call it like you see it.
The homosexual movement is indeed self centered, depraved and no matter how you'd like to coat it, it's definitely a depraved abomination and yes, they do belong inside the closet, not out!

I am with Michael W. ME - Thank you, you said it all!

Disturbing trends
The Prop. 8 brouhaha has only amplified what has always been there in the gay community. There is a scary elitist self-righteousness that permeates gaydom. I hope their illuminati strategists will see the need to unhitch their wagon from the black civil rights movement as that is only an illusion that is not working and is highly offensive.

Civil rights?
Even if a judge DID say marriage is a civil right, that doesn't make it so. I seem to recall judges that said black people were property to be bought and sold. Judges do not make the law, nor do they decide what is or is not moral.

homosexuals are "Christophobes." They hate Christians for one reason: They know instinctively that homosexual behavior is wrong and against nature, and every time they look at or hear a Christian their guilt is brought up full force in their face. Their guilt about what they are doing makes them hate anything to do with truth, Christianity and God.

Not illegal discrimination
“...the gay community is not the new African-American community."

The courts have ruled in the past that a group has been the victim of illegal discrimination if it meets all three of:

1. Its members have been systematically denied the right to vote;

2. Its members have been systematically denied educational opportunities; and,

3. Its members have been denied economic opportunities.

Sodomites meet none of these requirements. In fact, they have more formal education than the society at large and they enjoy a higher than average income. As far as voting is concerned, none of them have complained about being denied the right to vote.

Issues at Hand
Way to go Beth!!!I have nothing against anyones color.However GOD put us here for one reason to populate,MAN-WOMAN thats it.HIS LAW no one elses.Thing is we all r listening to another ruler satan.This is why the world is the way it tis.No one is LISTENING to GOD. Im totally against 2 women & 2 men. I do care for all people as Beth states but NOT what their doing. Our CHILDREN r the ones to suffer not us.Think of them. They have 2 women-dad & mom,or 2 men dad & mom. How do u think their going to feel as others will laugh at them??No one is is thinking that far ahead. GOD put us here NO ONE else did. So why dont we start for onnce listening to HIM??Ashes to ashes.The resao is why we cant cope together as man-woman,we all have issues in which we dont want to deal with. There r many ways to do it but we all feel we need drugs. Anyone out there know about EFT-Emotioanl Freedom Technique??Look it up & give it a try??In private see what happens. Have a GREAT day !!

People like Matt Barber and
most of the posters in this thread are why our political party is seen as hateful, moralistic (not moral!) and bigoted.

You people cost us the Presidency.

You people are making it more and more difficult for those who hold the valuable ideology of governance that is conservatism to get elected.


Complete Lack of Self-Control,
If you think about it, why would we have expected any other reaction?

We're talking about people who have refused to exercise the slightest self-control over their perverted impulses. People who reject the very concept that impulses should be controlled at all.

Why were we foolish enough to think that they would control their violent impulses either?

IMO, Freud and most of the rest of the pyschobabble is bunk, but his idea that homosexual perversion was the result of arrested development -- people never growing out of normal same-sex social preference of the pre-adolescent -- could have some merit here.

They're certainly acting like spoiled pre-schoolers throwing tantrums because they've been told that they can't have a cookie until after dinner and that even then they don't get to eat the whole batch.

The sad truth...
The Northeastern states and the 'church,' in complicity with them, are to blame for this entire concept of marriage being licensed and sanctioned by the state. For many years, these very same hypocrites feared a great influx of "free negroes" invading their states, integrating and marrying their sons and daughters.
The result, the states in the north and their church leaders agreed to make marriage a state licensed privilege as opposed to a church membership only privilege. Common law marriages were the only other means by which persons outside of a church could be 'legally' joined. Once the church made its pact with the state to license pastors and require a marriage license, the real abomination, i.e., the church becoming subservient to the state began.

As for those who argue the issue of a, "right to marry," how can any activity which requires a state issued license be a, "right?"
If any activity requires a license it is defacto a privilege and as such is subject to rules and regulations promulgated by the entity issuing the license.
Is driving without a license a right?
Buying drugs from a non-licensed drug dealer?
Is hunting the kings deer on the kings land without a license a right?
Is engaging in business without a vendors license a right?
As such...
Can marrying without a license be a right?

One could effectively argue, "yes," to all the above. However, you won't last long in attempting to exercise your right nor will you enjoy the benefits of your newfound liberty. Far too many of your neighbors will wag their tongues and call upon the ministers of 'justice' to send hitherto their swarms of highwaymen posing as inventors and enforcers of, "The Law." Worse, your own pastor will aid them in seeking you out, all while quoting "... submit yourself to the governing authority."

GOD s Law??
I have to ask.How do courts/judges have any rights to marrythe same sex??Did they ask GOD permission??Im NOT against colors to marry. Ur still human.I have nothing against anyone of their opinion except of GODs law.He has his rules of which Mosses wrote down. Remember??
What we do is seen thru HIM.I know we all make him angry at the sins we do & we have made millions. How about changing ourselves & do what is right for HIM?We have no idea how long we will be here til He & Jesus arrive.I will pray for u all.

wing nuts
This site and the comments to this article once again show the hate that comes from the radical religious rights.

Look at how some of you describe some of your fellow Americans; as "perverts", etc.

The Religious Right are a bunch of zealots. They are fear mongers, hateful, and often extremely ignorant on a whole host of subjects.

Some of us are christians that are fighting hard to reclaim our faith and our party from the radical religious fringe that often defines our party and our christian faith.

It's a sad day when people start railing on minorities and being angry at them for fighting for their rights and for their equality.

Some of you act like you are not haters but when you read your articles or your posts the hate and the discrimination is screaming from your posts.

Get over it. Gays are not going back into the closet. They will always be among us and they will always be among our family, our friends, our church members, and our communities.

I can't blame the gays for being angry they get treated like garbage for centuries and they have to put up with ignorant religious nutters on a daily basis.

Allen is right. It is the radical religious fringe that cost the republican party and it will continue to do so.

Young people are turning away from religion because of the disgusting ways in which christians target gays and others.

Some of you radicals have hi jacked the christian faith and it is YOU who have perverted the message of Jesus Christ with your constant hate and fear mongering.

Good job there wing nuts.

Is Barber earning his pay as a hater aga
Does anyone doubt that if Barber was 40 years older his job 40 years ago would have been writing on the evils of interracial marriage?
He already has all of the arguments down pat.

The argument that black opposition to gay marriage shows that same-sex marriage is not a real civil right is a real stupid argument. Anyone even moderately familiar with the history of civil rights in this country knows that as groups gain acceptance in this country the natural pattern has been to try to close the door behind them. (Jews are a nice exception to this rule, but that stand out for being an exception).

The fact that blacks don't like to have their problems expanded to gay rights just shows they are like the Italians and Irish before them. That is frustrating for people who support civil rights on principle rather than for group advantage, but not surprising.

The fact that the first half of the article is meant to show that the homosexual movement is different than the same-sex one, and the second is an attempt to show that the homosexual movement is developing an angrier side, much like the black civil rights movement shows that not much depth of understanding is expected from the articles readers.


Egon
Be that as it may, these people still need salvation through Christ just the same as you and me.

It is His world.
Being a homosexual is immoral by God's standards. God created people of all different colors because He loves variety and beauty.

EXCELLENT ARTICLE!!!
Matt Barber's words are inspired by the Holy Spirit and all homosexuals or homosexual activists need to take heed.
Learn to rein in your lusts and beg forgiveness from God. You will find lots of help in COURAGE (a group with a large rehabilitation track record). Deal with your mental illness-do not try to project your sinful lifestyle onto others who are trying to help you. Break free of your chains. The African Americans did just that and now they are trying to help you do that also--they have used their voices in the voting booth to help you--God is SO merciful. Heed His warnings and quit all this "civil rights" nonsense. You have every single civil right that everyone else has.

When Will It Stop???
The gay community will not stop until all states are forced to recognize same-sex marriages. Gays will not stop until all states have their constitutional amendments banning same-sex marriages overturned. Gays will not stop until those who preach, think and believe that gay marriages are an abomination (or sin) are sued, prosecuted and jailed. Gays will not stop until churches that keep them out of their memberships are closed or loose their tax-exemption. They will not stop until all religions and faith which refuse them the use their buildings for wedding ceremonies and receptions are sued or their trustees are jail for defamation. They will not stop until those who refuse to perform their ceremonies on any grounds are jailed, fined and/or sued.

Theirs is an agenda which gays intend to force down the throat (no pun intended) of all of American society.

If the big one hits - the 7.6 earthquake along the San Andreas fault - and the "left coast" were to fall into the Pacific, not only will a third of the gay community in the U.S. be wiped out, but the remaining homosexuals will find a way to sue Christians for supposedly praying to God that He wipe them out like He did Sodom and Gomorrah. The problem with that would be Obama's liberal court appointments will find a way to rule in their favor.

J Corson
I found your post eerily accurate. God has a way of surprising us though. He is already chastising the good with the bad with all the wildfires in CA. Do people take heed? God uses the nature which HE created to warn us. Not to mention that the blood of 45 million murdered babies is on our hands. God is still in control....

Good grief
Who cares if gays marry each other? What possible harm is doing to anyone else? This thread just goes to show that everyone needs someone to demonize. But the good news is that if the GOP continues to focus on the "culture wars" it will remain where it is today - out of power.

Matthew
What you say is simply not true. All of our college aged kids knew homosexuals and they are all sick and tired of you flaunting yourselves in their faces. So are all of their friends and their friend's friends. They all agree that they have never met more narcissistic, arrogant people as the in-your-face homosexual groups. The serious students (the ones who pay their own way and don't party with mommy and daddy's money)are also serious about life. They are anxious to get their diplomas (they know that a good education is almost non existent)but they will get that diploma in order to get a good job and they will marry and have lots of children who will also be brought up in God's ways. Meanwhile, homosexuals will be dying of diseases that don't even exist yet. Don't you understand that God's will IS the will of the people?? They have spoken loudly in CA and yet you refuse to listen to the will of the people. You are anti-American as well as anti-Christian. We are Republic of, by and for the people. The people have spoken. Change your ways before it is too late. Take heed. God is merciful but chastisements are still coming....

I wonder...
What many churches will do when their licensed pastors are ordered by the states to perform all manner of marriages to state marriage license holders?

Will they risk losing their license? Will they risk losing their tax-exemption? I wonder...

Hey Joycey...just curious

I was always taught Adam & Eve were the first two people.
So...were they multi-racial?

Since when does Civil Rights have color?
Now the blacks have a corner on Civil Rights? They don't own everything you know.
Everyone has a right to Civil Rights no matter what the color of the person might be and that is a fact.
Just because we will be getting a black President doesn't mean that own everyones mind, the way I think about Civil Rights is people have to civil with everyone that means be tolerent with everyone no matter what their color or their believes and that is a fact.
The blacks just feel it has to do with them because they need something to help what they want out of society never mind the real meaning of the words.
I think if the law was passed in California it should stay passed and not reversed that is just not fair. I am not gay or lesbe but I just don't think it is fair to anybody no matter what law it might be and no matter what the law might pertain to.
Everyone should be able to do what ever they want to do as long it isn't harmful and that is a fact.

Hypocrisy
"Being a homosexual is immoral by God's standards. God created people of all different colors because He loves variety and beauty."

Adultery is also a sin, as is divorce. Yet the "Christians" don't seem to be making much effort to get those outlawed. What gives?

You do have the right to choose sin
You do have the right to go against God's statutes and natural laws and choose to sin. Accepting of course the consequences, receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. But that doesn't give same sex people the right to enter into His Holy Covenant of Marriage. Which He instituted with the first man and first woman. Giving each corresponding sexual parts that create more human life and families naturally. It was good.

There are no rights involved.
Wendy (9:51 AM) wrote: "You violated their rights. OF COURSE they are going to target you... If you would simply cease and desist from what you are doing, they wouldn't feel the need to do these things."

Prop 8 did nothing but clarify the meaning of the English word, "marriage." How does that affect civil rights?

A marriage, both here in America throughout her history, and really throughout the world's history, involves a male uniting with one or more females for the purpose of reproduction and child-rearing. There are variations, but the bi-gender thing is universal.

The California court attempted improperly to alter the law by redefining the word "marriage" to mean something other than what it means. We're supposed to have a government of laws and not of men. If the court can arbitrarily change laws by changing the meanings of words, then laws have no meaning, and our liberties have no protection.

Where do you derive a citizen's right to change laws by arbitrarily changing the meanings of words?

We have done nothing to homosexuals. They are engaging in sociopathic violence because they were foiled in their attempt to hijack the culture to soothe their own wounded egos.

(Unrelated to this topic, please visit my political blog, "Plumb Bob Blog," at http://www.plumbbobblog.com. Thanks.)

That's great
for Christians....what about the non-Christian world. Are they bound by Christian rules? And why is it ok for Satan worshipers to enter into the "Holy Covenant of Marriage"? No one voted against their participating in marriage.

Hate crimes
Are homosexuals capable of "hate speech"?

Jeffrey
The church is not promoting divorce.

What is marriage?
Robert in the posts above is more or less right about Marriage being a right. He leaves out the context of the case and earlier cases which undermine his argument, but that isn't the important point.

Assume that marriage is an absolute fundamental right which cannot be abridged in any way. We know that this is not true, but lets assume that it is. The first question that should be answered is "what is marriage." The word needs to be defined for it to have any meaning. The court in 1967 wasn't speaking about two men getting together when it spoke of marriage. Marriage does not mean two men or two women.

What is happening is that the gay marriage movement is attempting to redefine a word. What if there were a fundamental constitutional right to have oranages. Does this mean that you have a right to apples? No, the right is to have oranges. So along comes a group that wants to have apples. There is no right to apples so they call apples oranges and say we have a right to apples. They are wrong. Just because you relabel an apple an orange doesn't make it an orange. It is still and apple and there is no right to apples.

There is a word for two men or two women who are in a relationship vaguely similar to marriage--civil union. If the gays were to be campaigning for civil union rights rather than "marriage" rights, the opposition would have much less to say.

Jeffrey
The church does not promote living together out of wedlock.
The church does not promote extra-marital affairs.
The church does not promote pre-marital sex.
The church does not promote homosexuality.
All of these are immoral.

What do any of these have to do with marriage?

Divorce is legitimate in many cases. God hates divorce because it harms children. But it is a necessary evil because we are sinners.

Joycey
So what? The church isn’t promoting same sex marriage, far from it. If same sex marriage violates Christian tenets in some way, (forget for a moment that the rest of us are under no obligation to follow Christian tenets), and Christians consider marriage a sacred thing (forget for a moment that they happily permit Satan worshipers to partake in this blessed ritual), that it’s important enough to make same sex marriage illegal, isn’t marriage sacred enough to make divorce illegal? Adultery illegal?

@ Michael W.
Homosexual brownshirts? 500,000 gays were approximately killed in World War II by the Germans.

Illuminati?
What is always meant with this right-wing "illuminati" stuff here at TH? Reading too much Dan Brown, I guess.

Prop 8 debate
It is not "hate" to stand against perversion.
It is not "hate" to oppose evil.
It is not "hate" to call sin what it is...sin.
Thank God the homosexuals aren't well armed, are typically cowards and cannot reproduce. They've got money (as is evidenced by the millions they threw away to stop Prop 8) but money can't convince Americans that homosexuality is perversion and homosexual marriage is an abomination.

Keep your powder dry.

Why Not Let Petifiles Marry Children?
To me lesbians and homosexuals are in the same catagory as pedifiles, and serial killers, afterall they say they were born like that and could not help there natural instinks to there actions. You might think the difference is that lesbians and homosexuals don't hurt any one else, but beleave me, it does hurt a lot of other people, especialy there family.

Oranges and Apples
Converting the word orange to apple might be hard to do. On the other hand, converting the word orange to fruit; A judge would tell you, you might be on to something.

Many of you are confusing divorce with dissolution and annullment.
They are not the same things.

Adultery was, at one time, considered illegal, and as such, was and still is, grounds for a divorce.

Contrary to the ramblings of Joycey
Biblical grounds for divorce are not many.
They are as follows:
1. Adultery by either party to the marriage
2. If an unbelieving spouse abandons a believing spouse a divorce may be granted.

BIOLOGY, HOMO-SEXUALITY & THE MEANING ..

.....OF LIFE ....

.....The biological purpose of life is to propagate the species ...some insects are born, mate and die in a single day ...

.....There is no biological purpose for homo-sexuality .....COLOSSUS


Gay Marriage is Wrong for Many Reasons
Please note that the argument is against Gay Marriage - Not homosexual behavior.

1. Allowing same sex marriages by defining it as a Civil Right means that there is no legal support in the United States to deny marriages of three or more individuals. (Such marriages are recognized in other countries and are considered moral and proper by their standards.) It also would present a challenge to Blood Relation Laws regarding marriage.

2. No other culture, including those known to be tolerant of homosexual behavior, has ever sanctioned same sex marriage. Some ancient civilizations even considered heterosexual marriage to be a civic duty, regardless of sexual preferences.

3. Same sex marriage is a self-destrucive behavior - when a species no longer seeks to reproduce, it becomes extinct.

4. Male/Female marriages were originally introduced to be a stabilizing factor for a civilization. Marriage was once considered to be the "responsible" thing to do in doing one's part for society. Legalizing same sex marriages threatens to destabilize our society by making marriage all about convenience and sex.

5. Same Sex marriages are predicated mainly on sex. Relationships based on sex are the most frequent to fail, dooming a majority of same sex marriages to also fail. (IIRC, the divorce rate for same sex marriages in Europe is higher than any other segment.)

Sexual preference and sexual activity is one's own business, and should be kept in the bedroom. Marriage is a civic responsibility and should be a concern for everyone.

Marriage as a civil right.
All this nonsense about marriage not being a civil right. It is what it is, it's all just a matter of definition. If we define marriage as a civil right, then it becomes one. Who cares what blacks think about gay marriage? Now if gay blacks would oppose gay marriage, that would be interesting.

And I suppose...
If 'we' call cars, cats and dogs, trucks the result is the same?

Now that's what I call logical reasoning.

Maybe if we call the moon the sun and the sun the moon we can call the night day and the day night.

Just might work to solve the "global warming" crisis too.

reality in labelling
1. There is nothing at all "gay" about being sexually perverted.
2. The only people who can be correctly designated as "African-Americans" are those who were born in some African country, then moved to our country and became naturalised citizens. That would include Egyptians, White South Africans, and Mrs. Kerry. If you were born here, irrespective of your skin colour, you are an "American," no hyphen.
3. The so-called "blue" states are as "red" as Red China, the Old Soviet Union and communist Cuba. Everywhere in the world, except here, red is the colour of the left, of the communists and the socialists. Blue is the colour associated with the right, the conservatives, the Tories in England for example. Who reversed it for this country? Who do you think it was?

@ Matt Barber.
Perhaps you are yourself a counterfeit columnist?

@ Allen.
Amen to that, and I'm an atheist!

Proponents of Same-Sex Marriage
What is the legal or logical justification to deny a marriage between 3 or more individuals or between a consenting minor and adult if there is no legal or logical justification to deny same sex marriages?

Reply to Carol in FL
Reply to Carol in FL

You are sadly mistaken with all of your assumptions. Gay marriage is NOT a civil right and NO, everyone should NOT be able to do whatever they want. To even think that is to take a giant step toward the breakdown of our society. We have laws for a reason.

The true agenda of the homosexual activists is to make homosexuality mainstream. They want to “teach” (a better word would be indoctrinate) our children to think of homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle. The right to marriage is just one step toward that agenda.

Homosexuality historically has been the downfall of many a great nation. It has nothing to do with basic human rights. Like it or not, homosexuality is an aberrant lifestyle and it is a CHOICE. They cannot procreate and thus they have no need for marriage. They already have legal rights with regard to sharing benefits, etc.

@Deornwulf.
You can use the same argument, even with only opposite-sex marriage. A man and a woman marrying, why not more than one woman like the FLDS wants? I guess statistics is an argument. ~ 5% of the world's population is homosexual and they would like to have the opportunity to get married to someone of the same gender. Minors should never be allowed to get married, they are not consenting adults by definition. It's a non-argument against gay marriage.

Perspective an Christias may be wrong
Moral majority in getting out the vote, claimed abortion, now gay marriage and tomorrow, maybe ellicit sex, lying, or who knows what morality to make a law on.

Our forefathers made it quite clear on individual freedom. The problem lies directly in the government. They should not define my marriage, nor encourage me to or not to do it with taxation money from those that may or may not agree.

Civil Rights was not needed if everyone would have recognized an individuals right in the first place. Did not recognize blacks with the pursue of happiness and freedom.

Tell the government to get out of my life and others lifes. Yes, I believe in man and woman. Yet, I believe in the individual freedom for others to do as they see fit. It may be sin in my eyes, but it is between them and their creator what they do. Neither needs any priviledge from the government, including tax breaks, insurance, retirements and the list goes on. These issues should be between my agent and I in a free capitalist society of individual freedom.


I first heard of homosexual militants...
when I moved to the US. Never heard about it in Western-Europe. Of course, there is no such thing as homosexual militants, it only exists in the heads of ignorant Christian extremists.

Isn't it funny...
that homosexuals demand tolerance but give none. If you're not fully on their side, your labeled as a bigot, a homophobe, or worse. If any sort of Christian, right-wing group had attacked a group of gays, there would be mass panic, anger (and oddly enough, joy) in the media rooms throughout the country. Did anyone see this attack on an old woman carrying a cross on the news? By the way "homophobe" means to be afraid of homosexuals. Tolerate, yes. Afraid, not so much. Furious at the denigration of churches by gays, absolutely.

Boom Boom Doesn't Disappoint
Being the official mouthpiece for a fringe Rightwing Group suits MB well, because he doesn't have to write anyting original. All the distortions and lies have been written before for blacks and other groups. Just substitute the word "homosexual" for Negro and all the vitriol retains its poison.

The fact is, black folk are very conservative people. Why they vote Democrat consistently is an argument for another blog. It's not surprising they voted against Prop 8 in large numbers, since they are church-going people and the black pastors (and Latino) are true Protestant Evangelicals.

In this case, and in many others, the Bible in that hands of some people is worse than a gun. Leviticus appears to give full license to anyone to oppose gay people, and do whatever it takes to make sure the "abominations" are countered. Whatever happens to them, happens. This of course is not hate on the part of Christians, but is the fault of the gay people for being uppity.

However, for fun discussion, check out http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm and see the debate among Biblical scholars about the meaning of Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1, 1 Corinthians 6, etc.


as expected
Those who scream intolerance are usually the ones who will be shown to have none.

The "Gay" movement is what it is and is completely out of sync with biology, history and any stretch of interpretation of scripture as being acceptable.

The movement is free to exercise it's bad behavior. It is not free to choose the consequesnce of that choice.

Simply put, they want God (and all of us) to agree with them. They want all of us to make their ideas of moralism the mainstream...thus their conflict is justified in their eyes.
That will not bring them satisfaction either.

The vote is in, they have lost.

"Get used to it."

To Melissa
If a new Proposition took away the tax-exempt status of all churches, would you display tolerance for the government or exemption-repeal advocates? Would you sit quietly and show no emotion, or would you organize protests, block traffic, hold prayer-circles, chain yourself to government buildings, or make some gesture to display how you feel?

Don't be so surprised that us gay people are upset and are reacting to the stripping of our rights. The same would occur with any group who seriously understand what's at stake.

Matthew From WV
A conservative agrees with you.

You are correct many on Christian Right do appear to display an irrational hate of Gays. Their conduct, words and deeds are not "Christ Like".

But that doesn't make them wrong on the issue at hand. And the issues is redefining the term marriage which they oppose.

Many people from Greenpeace hate whalers. Are they wrong on the issue?

Many people from Peta hate cruelity to animals. Are they wrong on the issue?

Many Enviormentalist hate Corporate Pollutors. Are they automactically wrong on the issue.

Hate can be a good thing if it motivates people to become involved. Hate can also be a bad thing if you let it consume you.