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Thursday, April 24, 2008
Amy Menefee :: Townhall.com Columnist
Voters Don't Care About Global Warming, But They Should
by Amy Menefee
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     If you’re not too concerned about global warming, you’re probably a regular American. If you think, however, that it’s on par with World War II as a threat to the nation, you’re the managing editor of Time magazine.

Al Gore’s “We” ad campaign drew a parallel between fighting global warming and storming the beaches of Normandy. Then Time took the iconic photo of Marines raising the flag at Iwo Jima and replaced the Stars and Stripes with a tree.

“[W]e say there needs to be an effort along the lines of preparing for World War II to combat global warming and climate change,” Time Managing Editor Richard Stengel said on MSNBC April 17. “It seems to me that this is an issue that is very popular with the voters, makes a lot of sense to them …” 

The election year has the media scrambling to put every issue in the context of “voters.” Newsweek’s April 14 issue devoted 18 pages to “Environment and Leadership,” pondering the presidential candidates: “Who’s the Greenest of Them All?” Yet these magazines are out of touch with what real voters are thinking.

Gallup reported April 21 that “While 61% of Americans say the effects of global warming have already begun, just a little more than a third say they worry about it a great deal, a percentage that is roughly the same as the one Gallup measured 19 years ago.”

Two decades of global warming alarmism and activism, and no more than a third “say they worry about it a great deal”? No wonder Gore’s rustled up $300 million to shout at people. The Washington Post reported April 18 that “the economy and the Iraq war are the top two issues on voters' minds, according to the new Post-ABC poll.”

Yet Newsweek’s Jerry Adler proclaimed: “At this vital juncture in the Earth’s history, it’s clear that the American people are looking for a presidential candidate who will take climate change ‘very seriously.’” His justification: “last year more than three voters in 10 said they would take a candidate’s green credentials into account.”

That’s about 30 percent of voters saying they would even take it “into account.”

Somehow, all the media hype hasn’t fazed us much. It looks as though global warming is more the concern of the media elite than the majority of working, voting Americans.

That shouldn’t be the case.

Voters must start caring, because all three candidates have said they would use government power to try to regulate the climate. And government power always translates to taking our money and controlling our lives.

According to Newsweek, all three favor a cap-and-trade system for carbon dioxide emissions. This is where voters should sit up and pay attention. The economy is our No. 1 concern, and a cap-and-trade system would cause chaos in the economy.

Everyone concerned about a possible recession in 2008 – after GDP grew less than 1 percent in the last quarter of 2007 – should consider the effects of a 4- to 5-percent reduction in economic growth. That’s what prominent economist Arthur Laffer projected under cap-and-trade programs, which he equated to “a potential income loss of about $10,800 for a family of four,” according to his study with Wayne Winegarden.

And that estimate was just for the example of reducing “greenhouse gases” 7 percent below 1990 levels (the original Kyoto Protocol target). Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama vow to cut those emissions 80 percent below 1990 levels by the year 2050.

The media don’t like to talk about how much that would cost us. In the latest study of global warming coverage, the Business & Media Institute found 90 percent of the stories didn’t mention cost at all, even though the networks urged immediate action to stop the “climate crisis.”

If journalists think today’s economy is bad, just wait until it’s gutted by the unlimited costs of climate “action.”

This is what the media aren’t telling you: Global warming policy and the economy are one and the same.

Voters must care, but not for Al Gore’s reasons. Plenty of scientists say we don’t have to fear a global warming apocalypse. The global food riots stemming from forced biofuel policy serve as a chilling clue of what we do have to fear. Instead of global warming causing food shortages, U.S. government policy has done that. Instead of rising sea levels, we must fear rising tax levels. Instead of ice caps melting away, we must fear our jobs evaporating.

Elevating the earth’s temperature to the prominence of our enemies in World War II is abominable. Ignoring what the next president could do to us is dangerous. 

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About The Author
Amy Menefee is Director of Communications for Americans for Prosperity.
 
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Exactly why McCain shouldn't
be elected.

Column: "all three candidates have said they would use government power to try to regulate the climate...all three favor a cap-and-trade system for carbon dioxide emissions...and a cap-and-trade system would cause chaos in the economy."


Precisely. So, if we're going to have some detestable liberal in the White House promoting these abhorrent policies, better there's a (D) behind the name, so the proper party gets the blame.



Defining year for GOP
Real conservatives voted in Pa. primary against McCain...real conservatives will not vote for McCain in general election in Nov. Real conservatives will take party back in 2012...global what in 2012!!!! Why? oil prices and food prices out of control due to global warming bs out of control and voters realize pols are out for a buck or two at their expense!

Food shortages...
Just a few years ago food prices were "too low". Our farmers were hurting and Africans were starving because there were little financial incentives to grow crops. Today food prices are too high.

This is a golden opportunity to cut back on government subsidies and let developing countries trade in food on equal terms.

As to global warming. Who wouldn't vote for a quick buck today rather than start paying for an unknown cost sometime in the future? Simple decision science psychology.

Amy
The reason most voters "aren't too concerned about global warming" is because it won't happen in their lifetimes.

If it's down the road, in our great grandchildren's lifetimes, nobody cares! Too far away! (Besides, Jesus will have come by then with the "Rapture"! Oh Praise the Lord!)

You don't seem to even have a conscience, Amy. You simply disregard all global warming scientists as propogandists. I'll bet you use tons of trash, think recycling is for losers, happily drive a gas guzzler & don't make the connection that our rampant oil consumption is one of the reasons we're in Iraq in the first place, "fighting for democracy" (North Korea also has an evil dictator...but no oil!; we wouldn't dream of fighting for democracy there!).


Most republicans have become apologists (& hedonists) for consumption excess. The evangelicals say, use it up!, Jesus is coming! No worries!

You shouldn't be so quick to naively put down environmentalists & tree-huggers & folks who want to reduce our independence on foreign oil, Ms. Menefee. Your picture shows a very pretty smile, but your post shows us vapid, unoriginal talking points passing themselves off as prose. It's like there's a well of unoriginal thoughts, and all you "conservative" bloggers dip into the same well, spouting out the same tired lines.

But, please, you're right, use it all up. Jesus is coming.

Will, you ecobot twit
The only vapid commentary here is yours, along with a little hatred of fundamentalist Christians.

A brand new study shows that to have any effect on the environment at all, CO2 emissions would have to be cut to ZERO. And that isn't about to happen in our lifetimes or anyone else's.

Al Gore is getting rich off climate propaganda but the average American will become very, very poor if these draconian measures are put into effect.

Our economy and way of life will be largely destroyed while India and China get a pass and continue to spew pollutants and greenhouse gases with impunity.

Fraud
The AGW scam now pervades the media in all forms. The liberals who put together programming somehow can not fail to make sure that it is mentioned in every show. A history channel show this week dealing with the apocalypse and the end of the world had to bring up global warming, the ice caps (yes plural) melting, and the oceans rising 20 to 30 feet. Yes, this show was made before the lie about both ice caps melting and the 30 foot ocean rise was exposed. All of this hype came out a few years ago and it didn’t take long after people started looking at it to expose it as a fraud.

The fact is that no responsible scientist and few responsible individuals believe the AGW scam for nothing more than what it is, a massive fraud. The purveyors of this mess should be in jail.

And yes, Mclame supports it through the cap and trade influence peddling scheme. The other two candidates favor both schemes, the cap and trade AND massive tax hikes.

Eco-morons rule, unfortunately.
Vic - you're right, it's fraud. I have found the History channel will insert global warming crap commentary into unrelated material - just following disinformation theory, and spreading the lie for the "greater good."

The real tragedy is that increased CO2 and warmth are just what the planet needs to promote true "greening." A 3x growth in CO2 will bring about optimal plant growth if our objective is ethanol from plant life.

Unfortunately, as the past winter has shown, the real driver is the big yellow ball in the sky. If old Sol doesn't perk up, the residents on the planet will face a far greater catastrophe than relocated beach-front property - mass starvation.


apb
Yes we are back to the new ice age scare but the pols are still stuck on AGW.

The Gingritch excuse for participating in the Albore ad.

http://newt.org/tabid/102/articleType/ArticleView/articleId /3345/Default.aspx

I say BS.

Global Warming....
aaaagggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..........

Manmade Disaster is Coming!
A classic cliched 'paranoid' obsession holds that the government is controlling the weather. It would appear the real conspiracy of the elite ruling class is to convince us government MUST start controlling the weather - by controlling us, of course.

Yes, I too am very concerned about "global warming" or "climate change," as an issue, not a demonstrated scientific phenomenon. We are indeed facing a manmade disaster, but because of totalitarianism promoted ostensibly to prevent artificial "climate change."

I knew, back in the late '80's when Dr. Jensen announced his little hypothesis, that this was coming. If the solution to "climate change" was LESS government & MORE energy & freedom, we'd have heard no more about it.

I believe voters haven't cared much about this in elections because it's NEVER BEEN AN ELECTION ISSUE nationally. How many times has a "warmie" candidate run against a "nonwarmie" candidate, & debated the theory and proposed solutions in a campaign? In the Presidential races, it NEVER HAPPENED, even tho GORE ran in 2000! He kept quiet about it!

Now, we have candidates who're all on the reservation, denying us (intentionally, IMO) any chance to witness open debate or to vote based on candidates' positions.

He said "the debate is over" but in fact there's NEVER been an honest debate. The hypothesis was just pushed in endless insinuating propaganda as though it had been proven. The question is begged, only scientific research that supports the dogma is onsidered credible. Politicians almost never run on it, but get "turned" once in office. They don't even want to honestly pass legisation, but to sneak it in via activist lawsuits & courts.

"Cap & trade" is rationing, & I garantee you once in place it will be run as political patronage, not in any way based on supposed "science."

It's a fraud Will
It's a good thing only young people fall for this globull warming crap. Anybody who has been around for more than two decades knows better.
You must be in high school or college Will. Don't let the media suck you into their entertainment world. Globull warming is just like every other hoax, make money. P. T. Barnum's old saying is still true today, "There is one born every minute."
What is really sad is the fact that anybody is actually listening to Al Gore. He was a boob back in the 80's and nobody payed any attention to him. He is still a boob and people are actually listening to him.

No, they should care about the cost!!!!!
In 1972 I thought the oil shortage and coming Ice Age justified all possible expenditures and government expansion. I will not make this mistake again.

To The Cap And Trade Dimwits
First: Everyone and everything has an established cap -- assumed to have been assigned by an educated government worker (an oxymoron). Now what happens? I sell you a carbon credit so that you can run your Hummer and I agree to emit less carbon. The net effect is - (Are you ready for this?) - NO Effect dummy. Except that I have your money. Sounds fair doesn't it? If you apply the same process using two manufacturing plants you get the same result. And as Don't Tread On Me said, it will be political patronage along with bribes and newer vote-for-me reasons.

They're lying to you, Will
Not the scientists, but the media. This isn't about science at all, but is rather about left-leaning media trying to control us.

A year or two ago, some conservative columnist -- maybe Mark Steyn or Jonah Goldberg -- was challenged to find any scientific articles that denied that global warming was caused by us, and he easily came up with five that talked about the strong influence of the sun on "global warming."

But, hey, don't bother listening to the conservatives here at TownHall. Why not try a skeptic on the left, Alexander Cockburn? Read this:

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/reviewofbooks_ article/4357

Tell us what you think of it.

To the "Wills" of this country...
... as in, "will" buy into any leftist claptrap as long as it is coated with a pile of "good intentions".

It is pure human arrogance to assume that present day climate is the "ideal" climate. Who is to say that a few degrees warmer (or cooler) isn't more ideal for human existence?

It is pure human arrogance to believe that man can positively effect the climate even if we tried - and certainly not without bringing upon us the "law of unintended consequences".

With all of our combined wisdom and technology, consider that:

* We cannot cause it to rain where there are droughts.
* We cannot stop the rain.
* We cannot alter the path of a hurricane.
* We cannot accurately predict when and where a tornado will form - and cannot prevent its occurrence.

No - AGW may be the greatest scam ever pulled on human beings. But even if true, who is to say that this isn't the correct evolutionary path (for the atheists out there).

April 24, 2007
I spent theearly morning hours shoveling snow off my driveway.
Could you send some of that 'global warming' my way for a while? I could use some spring time, here in Utah.

Apocalypse Now
Of the mythical Four Horses of the Apocalypse, Islamists ride the Death and the War horses and the wacko enviromentalists ride the Famine horse. There is no proof that reduction of CO2 will mitigate AGW, nada, none. The Greenies, like all liberals, seem to believe that "wishing makes it so." Please deliver us from the Do-gooders who ride the Pestilence horse, because eventually they let loose Havoc throughout the world!

Time to Care
The time to care about "global warming" will be when the people who want us to pay $6/gal. give up private jets, boats, and fleets of cars; when Ted Kennedy replaces his compound with wind turbines; when India and China can't breathe anymore and decide to do something about it; when Al Gore lives in a 4,000 sq.ft. home on one acre and encourages all of his Hollywood friends to do the same; when my town provides a way to dispose of batteries, light bulbs, and electronics instead of creating a "global warming" task force.

sun???
THE SUN CAUSES WARMING?????

Somebody alert the presses!



Consider Y2K
That was a very effective scare campaign that generated millions and millions of dollars. Whole companies were concieved for no other purpose than to ensure all corporations were Y2K compatable.

Fear is a very powerful selling tool.

I do not believe it is wholly working on America simply because we have much more pressing issues than something that might happen 1,000 years from now.

In the face of global nuclear proliferation, should we really be focusing our attention on
1) Something we may or may not have caused?
2) Something that may or may not happen 1,000 years from now.
3) Something we may not be able to do anything about?

McCain will get the message loud and clear and put aside any cap talk soon enough.

It's truly amazing the pressure the MSM is able to exert on politicians to be politically correct on nothing of any consequence.

And then there's the idiots that listen and don't question and immediately become fanatics to save the planet. They just need a real life.

Oh, Will
" I'll bet you use tons of trash, think recycling is for losers, happily drive a gas guzzler & don't make the connection that our rampant oil consumption is one of the reasons we're in Iraq in the first place, "fighting for democracy" ... Most republicans have become apologists (& hedonists) for consumption excess. "

Will, I'm going to do you the favor of assuming you yourself sincerely believe that anthrogenic CO2 can ruin the climate. Nonetheless, you illustrate something I've observed.

I truly think a lot of the rank-&-file ordinary people who buy into the ACO2CC theory aren't so much convinced by the quality of the science, as they see (maybe subconsciously) an opportunity to use it to advance any number of daddy/nanny state big-gov initiatives or to stroke their little envy, spite, & hyperdeveloped self-righteousness. The ACO2CC dogma leads to so much control over peoples' lives, by restricting their access to energy, I'm hard pressed to imagine any condescending leftist agenda item it doesn't promote.

I'm sorry you disapprove of SUV's, but other people aren't here to cater to the whims of self-important leftists. You can within broad limits be as hedonistic or as austere in your own life as you like, but (again, within broad limits) it is not your place to decide how others go about their lives.

If, hypothetically an SUV existed that did not emit CO2 anywhere in its energy production/usage cycle, would you be OK w/ that? Or would you still carp because you have some problem with ordinary people using one, per se?


"... folks who want to reduce our independence (sic) on foreign oil,"

All right! So you support DRILLING! My man! ;)

I do not buy in GW, but I do..
recycling everything I can, produce very little garbage, refer to my self as minimalist. My husband and I are not big consummers, and we consider ourselves conservative/libertarians. We do not drive gas guzzling vehicles and try to limit our running around in our cars. For us it is about saving a few $$.

As far as I am concerned all this global warming BS is about power and control, pure and simple.

I was around in the 70's when everyone was talking about the coming ice age, hmm, what happen to that.



Still looking
I make frequent visits and trips to universities, and it amazes me that there is this cast conspiracy among the brightest scientists in the world. I cannot understand how absolutely all of them have bought into GW! Who is paying them to alter their research, especially since their reputations are on the line.

Oh, wait. Maybe it is the less than 1% who are paid by ExxonMobile who are shills.

Then again I am writing to a group of people who still believe that Iraq had something to do with 9-11 or had WMD.

Why do you guys always fall on the side of the ill informed? Doesn't the fact that there is a ratio of 1,000 real scientists working on real science versus your 1 or 2 getting interviews with Ben Stein? Come on. Go buy some grips.

Will the "enviromental fundamentalist"
Will,

So you sit, in your warm home, with lots of food, probably a car (or two), with electricity running (obviously or no nifty high-tech computer connectivity) and a lot of rage against christians and conservatives.

How ironic.

Look, you environmentalist nazi, if you really care about stopping pollution, well... cease to exist. That will completely erase your carbon footprint you CO2 exhaling fascist.

Global warming
Please, all of you who believe in man-made Global Warming, commit suicide immediately, so we non-believers can enjoy this wonderful earth that God has created for us. Stupid is as stupid does,and there ain't no global warming.

Semper Fi all,

WMR

Alarmists are Bejeweled Don Quixotes
The contemporary green movement is a perverted soiree for self-styled elites and establishmentarians. Throughout man's history soothsaying and conjuring fear of the unknown has been practiced by leaders to gain and maintain control of the masses. Attempting to mitigate global warming through carbon taxes is the equivalent of sacrificing a virgin to quench a pagan god's wrath.

There is a conspicuously aligned group of financial institutions, energy companies and corporate conglomerates pushing the anthropogenic global warming agenda. And their members have repeatedly admitted that the cause of global warming is really about "stabilizing economies" (so that the economies work to their selfish advantage). "Global warming" is about creating conditions and restrictions to determine who thrives and who pays.

Only the fool or the co-conspirator would believe "global warming" is about the environment.


Tim
I bike to many of my client's workplaces. Fascists like you call me crazy. I have all energy efficient light bulbs. Fascists like you call me crazy. I work online most of the time, and take public transportation when I can, including buses and trains. Fascists like you...

Wait a minute! You can't win with a fascist like you! You are greedy, don't give a darn about anybody but yourself, and are probably holed up in your house with a gun, a laptop, and an internet connection. Maybe you are Dick Cheney in your undisclosed location.

Will, it would not matter how environmentally conscious you are. Tim is a selfish fascist with rage against anything that resembles concern for others. Time most likely is the biggest recipient of your tax money in the form of tax breaks, disability, unemployment insurance...

On the other hand, maybe I know about as much about Tim as Tim does Will. Hmmmmmm. Tim, any comments? Am I close? Are you raking in more money from the government that you give in?

Man-made global warming
is a hoax and a fraud. Only idiots like Will believe it.

inthemajority
Perhaps on this subject, you should change your screen name to:

"intheonethird"

And 1 or 2%???

What planet are you on?

Please send some warming
The winter rates on fuel have long since expired, spring sprang a month ago, but winter jsut won't let go. The temps are staying way below normal and in some cases breaking new low records. All of this despite all of the hot air about global "warming" coming out of DC.
The simplest, cheapest "do good" would be to institute the 50 mph speed once more....and enforce it.

Somebody still believes global warming?
There hasn't been an increase in average global temperature in a decade. It's over, folks.

All that's left is the scrambling for more totalitarian government control before EVERYBODY

As I've said before
It's an ECONOMIC issue more than an environmental issue.

The more people who make this distinction the better.
Most people's eyes glaze over when the scientific and technical conversation starts and therefore only catch on to the fear hovering in the air because comprehension is lacking. All people understand their wallets, though.

Global warming. . . sigh
Has anyone thought about how arrogant it is to claim humans are responsible for global warming? I'm all for conservation of natural resources, and responsibility of companies for any uneccessary waste or pollution, but global warming is a completely different issue. And conservation unfortunately should not come at the expense of the economy, there must be a balance.

A series of questions for you to answer and think about:

How many years has the earth been around?

How long have people/humans been on the earth?

How long have human beings had the capability to pollute the atmostphere with carbon dioxide, etc.?

How long have human beings had the capability of measuring the earth's temperatures and tracking them? And been accurate in doing so?

How much of the earth's surface is covered in land versus water?

How much of the earth's land is covered in developed regions, cities and such?

Before humans, were there any extreme variations in the earth's temperature?

Answer these questions, then tell me that human beings are responsible for global warming and I will lose brain cells listening to you talk. Besides, I read somewhere the earth's temperature is actually DROPPING. How is that so?

The Debate is Over
World's oldest tree discovered in Sweden

By Roger Highfield, Science Editor
Last Updated: 2:01pm BST 17/04/2008

The world's oldest tree has been found in Sweden, a tenacious spruce that first took root just after the end of the last ice age, more than 9,500 years ago.
The tree has rewritten the history of the climate in the region, revealing that it was much warmer at that time and the ice had disappeared earlier than thought.

Previously, pine trees in North America were thought to be the oldest, at around 5,000 years old.

But Swedish scientists report that in the mountains, from Lapland in the north to Dalarna in central Sweden, there are much more ancient spruce trees (Picea abies).

Prof Leif Kullman at Umeå University and colleagues found a cluster of around 20 spruces that are over 8,000 years old.

Styrofoam
Ok global warming cultists – Al Gore fans – you really need to sit down on this one. We don't want you to get too upset. This is about his Oscar winning film on global warming "An Inconvenient Truth." There's a scene in that movie that shows the Antarctic ice shelf breaking up and virtually disintegrating. The problem is that wasn't ice. That was Styrofoam. ABC News is reporting that Al Gore took that footage from the fictional movie "The Day After Tomorrow" and used it in his documentary. Way to go Al. That ice is just about as fake as you are.

Before we go on this day after Earth Day stuff ... you will be interested in knowing that only about 35% of the people in this country are all that concerned about global warming. That is about the same percentage as about 20 years ago. At least our collective ignorance hasn't increased all that much on this issue.
And while we're learning that Al Gore used Styrofoam in his movie to depict his dream of melting ice caps, here we have some sort of think tank in the UK saying that climate change (the newest term for global warming) could lead to centuries of world war. Read into the story and you'll find that the chief author of the report from what is termed a "defense think tank" is also the head of an environmental group. These people have an investment in so-called "climate change." When we all realize that this climate change is part of a normal cycle that has been going on for millions of years what are the environmental groups going to do to raise money?

Scam
The media portrays a dramatic image of how the ice is melting in the polar regions as a consequence of global warming. We are warned that the North Pole might become icefree during the summer months at the end of this century and that the polar bears might become extinct due to this development.

But is this really a realistic image? Sure, there is research that indicates that the ice sheets are being reduced, but there are also studies that show the complete opposite. An example of this is a study in the scientific journal Geophysical Research Letter where the Swedish researcher Peter Winsor compares data collected by submarines below the Arctic ice. His conclusions are that the thickness of the ice has been almost constant between 1986 and 1997.
If you look at the South Pole there are studies that show an increase in the mass of the ice. In a study published in the journal Nature a number of polar researchers showed that they had observed a net cooling of 0.7 degrees in the region between 1986 and 2000. Another study published in Science showed that the East-Antarctic ice sheet had grown with 45 million metric tones between 1992 and 2003.
Are the ices growing or melting? The simple answer is that there exist studies that point to both directions, perhaps indicating that scientists know relatively little about global climate. But what counts to most ordinary people is what media is reporting, and media is often highlighting the most alarming studies and seldom report of studies that go against the notion that human activity leads to global warming. To put it simply, the news is filtered through an environmentalist view of the world.

AZPhil
Exactly. Global warming and cooling is nothing new and it has nothing to do with humans. Thinking we are to blame is arrogant and reckless.

Scam p2
An interesting example of how media sometimes gets it wrong is how journalists reported that there had never been so little ice in the Arctic than in 2005. This claim was based on satellite images by NASA which showed that the geographic extent of the ice sheet had never been so small since measurement began in 1979. One must however keep in fact that about half of the ice in the Arctic melts each summer and that two months before this measurment the extent of the ice sheet was the same as the previous year. The problem is that satellite images show the surface of the ice but not the thickness.
Capten Årnell at the summer expedition with the polar-ship Oden could tell that he had never seen so much ice in the Arctic than in 2005. It was with great difficulty that he had passed through the region. What had happened in 2005 seems to be that the ice had packed densely against the Canadian part of the Arctic. The geographical extent had been reduced but the ice was thicker.

Scam p3
As for polar bears, much points to that their numbers are increasing rather than diminishing. Mitch Taylor, a Canadian expert on animal populations, estimates that the number of polar bears in Canada has increased from 12 000 to 15 000 the past decade. Steven C Amstrup and his college have studied a population of polar bears in Alaska and reported that the number of females had increased from 600 to 900 between 1976 and 1992. Even a report from the WWF which is entitled "Polar bears at risk" and warns that the populations of the polar bears might become extinct due to global warming, supports that the number of polar bears is increasing. In the report the polar bears in the world are divided into 20 populations. It shows out that only 2 of these populations are decreasing, while 10 are stable, 5 are growing and 3 are not possible to comment about.
Global climate is an important issue to debate, but it is sad that what is communicated often has a clear shifting towards the worst-case scenarios and the doomsday theories. There is no reason to scare people by giving them only one side of the argument.

Somebody still believes global warming?
There hasn't been an increase in average global temperature in a decade. It's over, folks.

All that's left is the scrambling for more totalitarian government control before EVERYBODY finds out it's all over.

That having been said, conservation of energy is still a good idea because of the economic and political implications of continued reliance on Arab and Venezuelan oil. Development of domestic and alternative energy sources is still a good idea, because no matter how much we conserve, we will still require more energy.

Carbon credits are a total scam. The historical record shows CO2 increases FOLLOWING temperature rise, not leading it. We can expect to see CO2 levels decrease as the temperature decreases. If "greenhouse gases" are really a problem, CO2 is the least problematic. Water vapor is a much more effective greenhouse gas. Will we all be required to wear water recovery masks for our exhalations and have diapers on our exhaust pipes in the next big government program? Even your hydrogen fuel cell car produces water vapor.

Corn-based ethanol is a really bad joke that's causing food shortages and dramatic food price increases. The economics of ethanol are so bad that it would not be produced (except to drink) if not for government subsidies. For the ethanol scam the taxpayers get to pay twice -- once on the Form 1040 and again at the supermarket.

Environmentalists and AGW advocates -- get over yourselves. You don't have all the answers. You're just diddling yourselves and the worst of you are "Do as I say, not as I do" hypocrites. Get a life and get on with enjoying it.

Will the Wonk
Will,

You're pointing a finger at Tim calling him a "fascist"? Do you knot realize the global warming agenda is, by definition, Mussolini-inspired fascism at its finest.

Global warming is about assimilating money and power into the hands of those "leaders" who say it's a problem. I'm amazed by the ignorance and belligerence that pervades all levels of society and education on this issue.

Like all other man-perceived crises, global warming is about money and power. Only the fool and the co-conspirator think otherwise.

Inthemajority
Before you start calling anybody names start with your fearless leader Mr. Gorebull. I've said it many times that I'll start living that way when he leaves as small a carbon footprint as I do. I DO recycle as I'm more worried about the landfills which are more immediate. I drive very few miles per year. I have a 95 ford ranger in perfect condition with 37000 miles and a 2005 town and country van that has less than 25000 miles.I use as little electricity as I can as I, frankly don't like what I have to pay for it here in Ohio. And,by the way I'm a declared republican and have been all my life. See, I don't need the government to tell me these things are right as they make some common sense. So tell your fearless leader to come around to my way of thinking.

inthemajority
I suggested to Will that if he was tired of conservatives skeptical of global warming, maybe he should look at a leftist who is also skeptical. I'm going to say the same thing to you. Here it is, from Alexander Cockburn:

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/reviewofbooks_ article/4357

Tell us what you think of it.

Everybody needs to visit
http://www.carboncreditkillers.com

The Prophet Algoracle and his minions, the Gorons, are probably trying to get that site eliminated, since it violates their religion.

JFP
Cockburn nails it.
Thanks.

What conservatives should do
What conservatives should do about global warming is exactly nothing. Conservatives understand that there is no such thing as global warming. Religious conservatives have the advantage over non-religious conservatives on this issue because religious conservatives know that the earth just isn't old enough to have had all those climate changes many scientists talk about. There is no cycle of cold and warm periods, and glaciers never covered any more of the planet than they do now.

As for man-made global warming, again, conservatives know there is no such thing because there can't be such a thing. Human beings cannot generate enough of the so-called 'greenhouse gases' to matter.

And, conservatives, always remember that the people who talk about global warming are either scientists, liberals, or most likely, both. And everyone knows that scientists lie about such nonsense as ice core samples and other alleged 'measures' of global warming. They lie because they're scientists, which means they probably believe in evolution too. Plus, they're likely to be liberals. Surely all of these factors are reason enough to doubt global warming.

Save water
Should Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger consider a $17/gallon "fee" on corn fuel ethanol use?

* Lower price for food, gas, water, beer and cleaner air… and… funds for the budget from oil profit

* Clean Air Performance Professionals

I'm confused
"only about 35% of the people in this country are all that concerned about global warming. That is about the same percentage as about 20 years ago."

I thought 20 years ago the scare was the coming ice age? Or was it the vanishing ozone layer?

BTW: right or wrong, if you want to fight global warming then build nuclear power plants!


"Global Warming" is a farce.
"Global Warming" or at least man-made "Global Warming" is one of the biggest scams ever perpetrated on American citizens who should really be smarter and do some more research on the subject. A surprisingly high number of Americans have swallowed the "Global Warming" crisis, hook, line and sinker.

The Earth's temperature fluctuations are well within normal boundaries when considering the history of the planet. Furthermore, the temperatures of Venus and Mars are on the increase at the very same rate as Earth.

When multiple planets in our solar system have the same percentage increase, isn't it common sense that it has been due to a fifty plus year in the rise of solar activity.

Up here in Maine, I still have snow in my yard and we just endured the fifth highest snow totals since weather records have been kept. "Global Warming" and the push for humans to do something about it, is a phenomenon that we'll be able to look back on in thirty years and laugh at ourselves.

Marc
http://www.SaveTheGuns.com

Just remember, SAM's will only
allow you to buy 80 pounds of rice at a time.

Alarmism
The problem with environmental alarmism is that it doesn't work. The environmental movement as a whole has been making dire predictions for decades, all of which either were made so far in the future (100-150 years) that no one who's around to hear them will be alive to see if they bear any fruit; or were targeted much closer and have failed to come to pass at all.

Furthermore, in the last 10 years or so (maybe more, I've lost count) EVERYTHING that even resembled a natural disaster was attributed by some "expert" or another to Global Warming. EVERYTHING. The heat wave in Europe in 2003? Global Warming. Cold Snaps in Quebec several winters ago? Global Warming. More Hurricanes than average in 2005? Global Warming. Fewer Hurricanes than average in 2006? Global Warming. Hurricane Katrina specifically hitting New Orleans? Global Warming (more accurately, President Bush's failure to sign Kyoto, according to RFK, Jr.) Flooding in Florida? Global Warming. Drought in Florida? Global Warming. The 2004 Tsunami (a seismic event caused by a massive earthquake)? Global Warming. (see: http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5CNation%5Carc hive%5C200412%5CNAT20041228a.html)

Even if you discount the Tsunami claims as either total morons or conservatives trying to discredit the envronmentalist movement, the fact that every significant weather event of the last 20 years has been attributed directly to global warming is as absurd as attributing Global Warming as the cause of an earthquake.

If we could have reasonable, scientific debate on the subject -- rather than having to listen to politicians and leftist celebrities throw out wild and idiotic claims that man is responsible for this storm or that heat wave or the other drought -- then MAYBE we can figure out what needs to be done, if anything at all (and "nothing" is a possible, and viable answer).

Grumpy
No, Global Warming alarmism started about 20 years ago (Mid 80s). Global cooling was 30 years ago.

Nuke and Hydro. No emissions, no CO2, no new technology to be invented out of thin air, and they are proven.

Eeek, Cooling! No wait,, Eeek, Warming!
In 1975 it was Global Cooling and the ice caps were going to get us! Check out this old Newsweek Article.

http://www.denisdutton.com/cooling_world.htm

And here's the really funny part. "Climatologists are pessimistic that political leaders will take any positive action to compensate for the climatic change, or even to allay its effects. They concede that some of the more spectacular solutions proposed, such as melting the Arctic ice cap by covering it with black soot or diverting arctic rivers, might create problems far greater than those they solve. But the scientists see few signs that government leaders anywhere are even prepared to take the simple measures of stockpiling food or of introducing the variables of climatic uncertainty into economic projections of future food supplies. The longer the planners delay, the more difficult will they find it to cope with climatic change once the results become grim reality."

Back then they wanted the Arctic ice cap to melt... okay, so IF it is really melting, why aren't they happy? And they didn't even have to pour black soot all over it. rofl

Loonies... EEek!



To Time & their advitisers
When I heard about the Time cover and story, I quickly shot them an e-mail:

Global Warming War?
OK, but you're the enemy in this fight. You, and all others that are using lies and trumped up predictions of catastrophe to grow government power. You have about as much credibility as Al Gore , the guy who says polar bears are dying, even though their numbers have increased about 100% since the 1970’s. Most of us remember your 1970's B.S. about the coming ice age. If it’s a “war” you want, fine, we're fighting back. Hopefully this time your readership and ad revenue will completely dry up.
Want to end global warming? Figure out a way to blow up the sun. But cut the crap about CO2 causing warming. Take a look at the nifty little chart in Gore's slideshow. Warming or cooling comes first, then about 800 years later CO2 levels rise or fall. CO2 is not pollution, it's plant food. It helps plants grow stronger and healthier, and helps plants survive droughts.


And to their advitisers I wrote:

Time Magazine has declared war on reason by pushing the global warming farce. Blackberry (and Fisher Investments, Hotels.com, Nissan, Comcast, HP, Target, etc.) is advertising with Time, therefore you are supporting the enemy. We will not support you until you pull all ads from Time.




BrianR
Spot on, re the three candidates. The only viable strategy for this election is preventing supermajorities for the Democrats in Congress, so that the core of "movement" conservatives there will have a hope of putting a brake on whoever becomes president.

Achieving that outcome would actually be easier with a D in the White House. Frankly, we're in for an ugly four years no matter who wins the Oval Office.

Not all scientists believe in GW
I live in a town with a major hard science university on the edge of the supposedly melting arctic. You'd be surprised how many of the scientists I've rubbed elbows with who are skeptics on GW. When Bjorn Lomberg was here a couple of weeks ago, students barely let the man speak, but the few professors, all scientistis in highly technological fields, who were able to gain the microphone all noted that in their fields they're not seeing the evidence for alarmism. The climatologists were alarmed by the arctic ice pack, but that's 80 percent returned in just one year. We had a "normal" winter in the Interior -- overall a little warmer than it was when I was a kid, but with plenty of 40 below to remind us this is Alaska. It looked like spring was coming early -- the snow was melting, you could see the roofs. Then, it snowed three inches during tax week and everything froze again. I saw geese who had arrived earlier in the week flying SOUTH. Now, it's melting again, but the forcast is for freezing temperatures in the day over the weekend. IOW, this is one of the latest and coldest springs we've had in my lifetime.

My teenager daughter points out that she'd believe GW if OUR weather was getting warmer, but she hasn't had a tan in two summers on account of rain. She'd believe GW if Al Gore weren't using all those carbons to jet all over the world to talk about how we shouldn't use carbons. She'd believe GW if we could grow crops in Greenland like the Vikings did 1000 years ago.

This is why we're not too concerned about GW itself, because the evidence for it is hinky and we have common sense.

The other problem with alarmism
The other thing about alarmism (aside from the fact that the people are sick of the Left crying "Wolf") is that none of this consternation has anything whatsoever to do with the environment.

The people who scream loudest are Limousine Liberals and Learjet Environmentalists, that is rich liberals who "earned" their wealth through inheritance, marriage, ambulance chasing lawsuits, the entertainment industry, or a lifetime of political positions. These same people would end up putting themselves in control of an environmentalist regime, thus exempting them from the regulations they would impose on the rest of us. They'd still have their SUVs, 10K Square-foot houses, private jets, limousines, and more money than they could spend in a lifetime.

The whole thing is about them being the elites in a new world order that will have the rest of us as their serfs and vassals. Those who publicly follow in their political views will get the perks. The rest of us will get to stand in Soviet-style bread lines.

Gestell, Will
“What conservatives should do about global warming is exactly nothing.” That’s exactly what I was trying to do, but you liberals keep trying to force me to reduce my “carbon footprint!” and monitor my bodily gases.

I recently moved north (from New Orleans, where practically everything is north) and now I’m too darn cold. In an effort to speed up global warming, I’ve had to “use tons of trash, think recycling is for losers, and happily drive a gas guzzler!” Now it seems that nothing’s happening! The earth has stopped warming in the last 10 years! Not only will GW not happen in my lifetime, it won’t happen at all!

I’m going to have to move back south.

I am vindicated.
Editorial: Melting snow to bring relief to Washington and Oregon.

Snow melt in the Colorado Mountains will provide more water in the rivers and raise the level of Lake Powell. What is that snow but a short-term glacier on the mountains?

If most of the glaciers in the world would melt, the resulting water would end the drought in much of the world. Much of the water would soak into the ground under which the glaciers are now. Some would run into the waterways; and much would be evaporated into the atmosphere to become normal rainfall.

Global warming aficionados insinuate that the glaciers would change from solid ice into water instantly, and flood the world. It would take years for all the glaciers to melt, and, during that time, the water would slowly soak into the ground, flow down the rivers, and be evaporated, preventing rapid water flow.

Flooding would end because melting and the end of the sub-freezing cold from the glaciers would allow enough evaporation to take place to provide the water needed to be distributed for normal rainfall for the entire world. It wouldn’t all fall at the same place, as it does now with the present water shortage caused by glaciers.

We need normal cyclical global warming now to normalize rainfall worldwide.

To Time & their "advertisers"
D'OH! Should have done a spell check!

It's Willie Nelson's fault
"The global food riots stemming from forced biofuel policy serve as a chilling clue of what we do have to fear. Instead of global warming causing food shortages, U.S. government policy has done that." The two most poignant sentences of the artcle.

The really wacky proponents of AGW have called for population control and cheered the extinction of the human race, and by gosh, I guess they'll get their wish.

More biofuels equals less food on the table, causing massive starvation, and a thinning of the herd, so to speak. So we all have Willie Nelson to thank, as he is a major spokesman for ethanol gas.

Re-defeat communism!

This newest fad is getting old
Years ago, there were no plastic bags at the grocery stores. Then some brilliant people realized that we were killings trees to make our paper bags, and the plastic bag was born. Fast forward about 15 years, and suddenly some brilliant people have realized that plastic bags are not bio-degradable and it is no longer a sin to use paper bags.

Ethanol, the greatest thing since sliced bread. We can GROW our fuel - the only problem is that it requires more energy to produce than it provides AND it causes what could have been used for food to be used as fuel, causing food prices to increase around the globe. Another great idea from the brilliant people.

I think I prefer smart people, people who observe what is happening and make reasonable decisions based upon their observations. During the 20th century, the brilliant people predicted a couple of ice ages and a couple of global warming cycles. All we need to do, is do nothing - and just wait for the brilliant people to predict another ice age. Global warming solved!!

Global warming?
Want to get rid of this so called global warming? It's real simple. It is caused Caused by a select few humans. Get rit of all the politicians and the global temp. should drop by at least a few degrees. Just think of all that hot air over Washington D.C.!!!!!

Won't happen in our lifetimes......
The only peer-reviewed scientific papers I have seen in the last 5 years concerning Global Warming (which IS real and at the current rate will bring us back to medieval warm period temperatures in 50 - 100 years) have indicated that the primary cause in decreased reflectivity in the outer atmosphere due to a reduction in ionizing radiation coming from the sun and other sources outside the solar system. Al Gore has declared that the debate is over, but refuses to debate. How is reducing carbon dioxide going to increase ionization in the outer atmosphere?

Some important things to consider:
We've been that hot before, and we survived.
These events are cyclical, and the earth will begin cooling again no matter what we do.
Man is not God, and does not control the universe.

You can starve all the Africans you want, the earth will still keep getting warmer until the cycle starts going back in the other direction.


will, if you are going
to spend time posting, at least have the sensibility to actually debate the issues within the column rather than attack the columnist (who you most likely do not know from Adam but will pretend you do based upon her picture.)

By attacking the columnist you simply highlight your own ignorance instead of showing that you can debate with sound argument of your own.

US does not equal globe
Primus54 writes: Thursday, April, 24, 2008 9:46 AM
"inthemajority
And 1 or 2%???
What planet are you on?"

Well, the very planet that has been proven to be warming. You know, the one that 99%+ of scientists know is warming. Look at all those duped posters who think the globe is cooling or steady. No really, many think that. After all the proof handed to them they still think that some cold town in Iowa is proof enough.

More noted scientists named "Steve" that know global temps are rising than the sum total paid shill deniers. Kinda makes you want to rethink your position.

Not so fast inthemajority
99% of the scientists know the globe is warming? Based on what? Could it be that there exists more than 1% of scientists who disagree that humans are causing global warming exist, but are silenced and ignored for the 99% you speak of? Oh, but then again, you probably believe everything you read in the news is true right? How could the media possibly deceive us?

Get a grip. You can convince me that globe is warming if you can prove the temperatures and data collected to prove this theory is actually accurate (doubtful), and is not intentionally skewed to produce the desired GW result.

Perhaps you also think the Emperor's clothes are nice as well? Guess what? HE'S BLOODY NAKED!!!

Furthermore
Refusing to debate the issue at all is all the more reason I am convinced it is complete BS. Why no debate? Afraid someone might debunk the whole thing? Very curious. . .

intheminority
"Well, the very planet that has been proven to be warming. You know, the one that 99%+ of scientists know is warming."

Really? 99%? I'd love to see where you get those figures.

I have another question for you. What is the Earth's temperature suppose to be?

inthemajority is a liar and a crook
who belongs in jail.

inthebottomthird
If you can, please post a link to quantify your claim that "99%+ of scientists know is warming."

I'll sit here and hold my breath while you research that - keep my carbon footprint in check.

cure?
The global warming nuts want the U.S. to reduce the number of coal fired energy plants by 33% by I believe 2020. Right now Russia is building enough coal plants to equal those 33% which wiil be built in the same year. What have we gained? Nothing except we lose more sources of energy. By the way, as an afterthought, there are scrubbers and filtration methods that can be retro-fitted to make their out-put of polution almost to zilch! We have an abundance of coal. Why not use it if we can do so cleanly?

Food emergency and environmentalism
Why are food prices high? The price of fuel.

Why is the price of fuel high? Refining capacity cannot meet demand.

Why can't refining capacity meet demand? Environmental standards make building new refineries financially untenable.

Ease off restrictions on refineries, for the good of the planet!
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop Global Warming, burn biodiesel. What is biodiesel made from? FOOD!

End biodiesel NOW before it is too late!

Stop waste, embrace the free market
Thomas Sowell has been running a series of articles on the economics of college, one of which explains how simply subsidizing excessive tuitions encourages colleges to waste money. Sowell cites the fact that Soviet factories used far more electricity, cement, steel, and well, just about everything, than Western factories used to make the same output.

Think about this. If the government tightly regulates and subsidizes the economy, which is what environmentalists claim is the solution to the problem, they will create MORE waste. When we spend our own money and pay for everything we receive, we are very careful not to be wasteful. When we have the cost defrayed by government people are hugely wasteful.

The US DOES produce a lot of waste. But if you allow government to get back in the regulation and subsidy game it will be far, far worse (see 1970s, the).

RIsk Management
Ultimately, the AGW crowd argues that we should do something about AGW, because if they are right, the costs of doing nothing would be catastrophic. A compelling argument.

If I do not get a million dollars by the end of April, the world will be destroyed! Can you take that chance? Start taking up a collection for me now and send the money to http://www.theresasuckerborneveryminute.com.

Please note, the preceding paragraph is intended to be satirical. If I were serious, it would be called "fraud" and they could put me in jail. DO NOT SEND MONEY TO ME (just in case any liberals were convinced).

Cleverness of me
Nah, they wouldn't put you in jail, just look at Gorebull.

inthemajority
Your screen name is a good indicator of your opinions; not only the topic- but about yourself.
The issue is virtually the same.
You affirm that your opinion is shared by the majority, ergo the handle.
Since the majority consists of whoever agrees with you on a given topic, your declarations are a little presumptive, as well as arrogant, to say the least.
Since you are an expert on fascism, explain to me how a minority in this country can impose their will on Americans through feelgood legislation and judicial fiat.
Fascism never took over a country with guns.
Every fascist state extant was voted in by the majority after the youth were corrupted by educational secular dogma designed to make our children as little like their parents as possible.
The greens are the new Nazi Brownshirts, with constant support from schools, the press, and Nickelodeon's Green Kid's Club ads in every commercial break.
Fascism in America is being ushered in under the mask of compassion, and is wholly driven by passion.
And you are merely a useful idiot for the cause.
It boots little how fascism finally ruins America; through the use of guns OR flowers, if the results are the same either way.

Suppose global warming is real
Let's suppose global warming is real--the scientific research finally proves it beyond all doubt. What then?

The polar ice caps melt, Bangladesh becomes completely submerged. Now you have two choices: Either resettle 200 million refugees from there elsewhere. Or allow all the world's Muslims to blame the "Great Satan" for having drowned the entire Third World, for which they declare total jihad against America.

Which do you like better?


global warming
All the political leaders that are pushing global warming are preaching to the stupid,and gullible people.

Global Warming
This "global warming" is a hoax on the people
of America and the world. There is no scientific
evidence to support the "global waming". Yes, it
is good to keep the planet clean and recycle etc, and plant trees and bushes and do what we can to preserve what we have.
I also must say that maybe the sun, with it's
eleven or seven year cycle may have a role to play with our weather systems on our planet. Also
solar radiation may play a part in the changing
weather patterns.
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