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Friday, January 09, 2009
Mike Gallagher :: Townhall.com Columnist
Hamas, Israel and the American Media
by Mike Gallagher
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I'll never forget the time my wife came screaming into our bedroom late at night. I was sound asleep; she usually stayed up later than me watching TV.

“Wake up! Wake up! You made the Daily Show!!” she shouted.

Convinced that the house was either on fire or an army of terrorists was storming our residence, I practically fell out of the bed, wild-eyed.

Thankfully, the huns weren't storming the place. It was, indeed, just a brief video clip of me saying something on Fox News that Jon Stewart, the host of Comedy Central's popular fake news show, used for a punchline.

My Denise was very excited.

The Daily Show is a cultural phenomenon. Fast-paced, hip, and smart, Jon Stewart hosts a nightly parody of the news, covering current events with his tongue-in-cheek, bemused style that usually skewers conservatives, although he takes a fair amount of shots at libs, too.

While undoubtedly not sharing many of Stewart's political views, I've always appreciated the way he treats conservative guests who appear on the show to hawk a book. He clearly has a liberal bent, but usually treats his guests with respect and courtesy.

This week, the new host of NBC's 'Meet the Press', David Gregory, was a guest. During a conversation about the current conflict in the Middle East between Israel and the terror group Hamas, Stewart said the following:

“Why can't any American politician criticize Israel in any way for their behavior? I'm watching these shows and there's not one person going, Gee, it's kind of complex. Yeah, Hamas is a bad actor and they shouldn't be throwing missiles, but, gosh, the treatment of the Palestinian people for the past 50 years, not so nice, either.”

The audience roared with approval. There's nothing quite like a prominent member of the American media bashing Israel that makes a bunch of liberals any happier.

Welcome to the USA.

One day before I die, I will finally understand why liberals, especially Jewish liberals, fail to fully support Israel in its right to survive terror attacks.

For months, Hamas has lobbed rockets into Southern Israel. Thousands of them, in fact. Israel decided enough was enough, that it was time to do everything possible to stamp out these implementers of terror.

The worldwide condemnation was immediate. The midnight oils burned at the United Nations as documents were prepared and meetings were held to determine ways to demand that Israel stop defending itself.

And even a popular Jewish television personality like Jon Stewart (born Jonathan Stuart Leibowitz) wonders aloud on national TV why politicians aren't allowed to criticize tiny Israel, a place surrounded by an angry, huge Arab world that is hellbent on driving it into the ocean.

As Stewart said, the entire Mideast situation is a mess. Of course it's complicated and nuanced.

But for me, things get pretty simple when I know that one side wants the other side dead.

Hamas, Hezbollah, and other Arab terror groups are committed to the destruction of Israel, a position supported by millions in the Muslim world.

All Israel wants to do is survive.

If Canada suddenly started raining rockets down on Buffalo, New York, I wonder if there would be worldwide condemnation over the United States' inevitable “disproportionate response.”

Not likely.

When I have guests on my radio show to discuss the Mideast, I often ask them why they believe so many liberal Americans don't have the wisdom to defend Israel.

Jackie Mason, one of the funniest people on the planet, told me he thinks it has something to do with liberals and Jews feeling oppressed and maligned and always longing for an underdog, and that they have somehow (stupidly) convinced themselves that the Palestinians are underdogs.

But perhaps the most astute observation came from Bill Gertz of the Washington Times. He believes that many American liberals, who have an utter contempt for the United States already, simply view Israel as a U.S. outpost in the Middle East. They resent the military might of our own country and they view Israel an extension of that dominance.

I think that's as good an explanation as I've ever heard.

Jon Stewart, and others like him, should be ashamed of themselves. No right-minded, clear-thinking American should waiver in supporting Israel in its current battle with Hamas.

Man up, Mr. Stewart, and do the right thing. You can still be Comedy Central's superstar if you do.

Perhaps you'll even sleep better at night. Unless, of course, your wife comes screaming into your bedroom.

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About The Author

Mike Gallagher is a nationally syndicated radio host, Fox News Channel contributor and guest host and author of Surrounded by Idiots: Fighting Liberal Lunacy in America.

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Who believes the MSM reporting?

We know the MSM is biased and reports everything with the slant of their view.

We are NOW supposed to believe everything they tell us about what is going on between Israel and Palestine?

I am reminded of the 'Doctored' pictures a few years ago that EVEN CNN reported on.

Watch this video from CNN - it is worth the time watching it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXy6q4cH4pw&feature=related

MSM does nothing but denigrate Israel
Stewart must be like his other "journalist" brethren--hear no evil, see no evil--as what MSM has championed Israel in this conflct or any other? And who stops him from criticizing everything he touches?

Two yearI ago in Lebanon, Reuters faked photos with pictures of old cracked-up ambulances behind pristine teady bear toys. Absolute LIES.

Even the WSJ last week ran back-to-back front page color pictures of *Palestinian victims.* When do you see Israeli victims in the Western press?

The Euorpeans and UN have deliberately kept Palestinians in fake refugee status--they don't do that in the Congo or Ethiopia--but they oppress these people whose leaders rival Hitler and then blame Israel for defending itself from terror and aggression.

BIASED MEDIA
Great article, Mike.
The liberal elitists, be they comedians of Jewish descent or just plain ol' Hollywood idiots, have to keep their left-wing credentials checked-off with the following requirements:
1. Hatred of George Bush.
2. Spiteful derision of any woman not supportive of abortion on demand.
3. Must pray at the altar of "Global Warming".
4. Support ANYTHING gay or lesbian.
5. All gun owners are slack-jawed freaks.
6. Religious Christians and Jews are cretins.
7. Israel BAD - Hamas/Hezbollah GOOD.
8. Hatred of George Bush.
Failure to keep up with required periodic media displays of their liberal-ness could result in being un-invited to the next red carpet event.
And now entering the war on terror from stage left, Leon Paneta. Good Lord protect us.

Dreamland
All the conservative commentators going nearly berserk over this issue are living in a dreamland. One can see it in Gallagher's central comment. He quotes Stewart as saying, the treatment of the Palestinians for the last 50 years is "not so nice" and the characterizes that comment as "Israel bashing." Stewart wasn't bashing Israel: he was simply saying there are two sides to every story. (I know, conservatives can't handle that concept)

It's sad too, because a realistic and honest assessment of the situation would indeed reveal the validity of Israel's position.

Here are two very real issues which are rarely reported. One, Israel continues to maintain and expand settlements in the West Bank. How would Montana folk feel if a bunch of Canadians moved across the border and created a bunch of new towns on the American side of the line? The settlements are a huge issue in the Arab and Palestinian world, but are rarely if ever mentioned in the US.

On the other hand, much is made of the blockade of Gaza. Much is made of the closing of the border crossings. But almost no one mentions that Egypt has border cdrossings with Gaza as well, and when there is trouble Egypt closes their crossings as well! Where are the relief convoys pouring in from the Egyptian side?

No one is being a realistic and honest reporter. Palestinian sympathizers spin things their way and Israeli supporters spin things their way. No solution can or will be found in the spin machine.







good defense of Hamas
This is a good defense of Hamas. After all what would Americans do if Canada controlled the flow of goods into America keeping the average American at a subsistence level. Clearly the firing of rockets over the border would be the measure of restraint.

Oh wait that wasn't what he was arguing he was arguing that the lesser hardship of inaccurate rockets being fired into Buffalo would justify the much more deadly response of an invasion.

I don't mean this to be a defense of Hamas anymore than it is a defense of Israel's invasion. But Gallegher's column seems to be designed to convince only the uninformed and simpleminded. People like Stewart note that the situation is more complicated than that because the situation is more complicated than that.

Ultimately Israel does not benefit from defending itself using arguments which would work better as defenses of the Palestinian side.

Jack
There is no spin machine at play in this situation where one side wants the other side dead. Hamas' charter calls for the destruction of Israel.

Why is Israel supposed to pursue a two state solution when the other side wants one state. The time is long past when Israel does exactly what is needed to guarantee her freedom.

There is absolutely no equivalency here as you are trying to suggest. Palestinian's are so warped that they raise their young to hate Jews and think their life's goal is to kill as many of them as possible even if they blow themself up in the process. All Israel wants is to live in peace.

If the Palestians would put down their swords and agree to live in peace, Israel would spare no effort to assist them in establishing agriculture and industry.

I've been there recently and am totally disgusted by the ignorance expressed by so many about this situation.

Israel has been far to moderate in their actions. None of us would ever tolerate a fraction of what they endure every day as normal life.

Bottle Rockets and Homer refs
Can you imagine if the guy living next door shot bottle rockets at you and your kids at all hours of the night and day?

Even when you call the police they just let him back out of jail and he continued shooting bottle rockets at you.

Then if you retaliate he tells the press and the police that he’s the victim of your aggression and will not rest until you move.

In hockey they call that hacking and slashing and then intentional diving so the refs call penalties on your team.

This aggressive/ victim strategy sound very familiar.

Can you think of some examples of how that strategy is used right here in the U.S.A.?

Homer Refs hard to play against.

Life imitates Hockey or Hockey imitates life?

When the press and the judges are homers for chaos and confusion only the Lawyers, Judges, and the press win the tax payers get stuck with the bill.

Re: Jack
You stated: "How would Montana folk feel if a bunch of Canadians moved across the border and created a bunch of new towns on the American side of the line?"

Mexicans are already doing this. We're not shooting rockets at them.

PV
Do you fall victim to the same error as Gallagher?

There is unquestionably a spin machine in effect and you may be part of it. For example, you frame this as a conflict between Israel and Hamas. That's a simplistic, localized and transient circumstance which was actually brought about by the US. What about the West Bank? The fact that Egypt actually supports Israel in this dispute?

Your inability to see the situation objectively leads you to major conceptual errors. Specifically, you write "There is absolutely no equivalency here as you are trying to suggest."
I did not suggest there is an equivalency. In fact I specifically said that an objective analysis would show the validity of Israel's actions.

For example, when a western journalist writes about Hamas rocket launches into Israel, the emphasis is usually on the number. 5,000 rockets. 10,000 rockets. But rarely is there an explanation that in 10,000 rocket launches, there were virtualy no deaths. These are the acts of lunatics and buffoons, not an existential threat.

That said, Israel is still 100% right in taking the steps it did, because a sovereign nation can't allow itself to be attacked, even by lunatics and buffoons.

The tendency to reduce things to simplistic extremes of right and wrong is the enemy of real understanding.

Chris
It's a reasonable, though not nearly perfect analogy. My question to you is whether you think we should allow it to happen?

Drop the Gloves
Sometimes the refs should get out of the way and let the kids play.

HIT 'EM

Good Article
Mike Gallagher,
It's such a tragedy that this nation and such a majority of Jews in this nation are against Israel. When Islamic rockets start raining down on the cities in this nation, and they will if Israel is destroyed, people will understand Israel's plight. One would hope, Israel will continue this war with Hamas until they are no more. Only by staying in Gaza can Israel protect themselves. I know that Hezbulla is next. Israel must be strong and we in this nation must, must back them to the hilt or we are lost.

JIm
Once again, I appeal to reality.

In some mysterious way you suggest that a group of lunatics who can't kill a single person ten miles away with 5,000 rockets will soon be devastating US cities.

How does that work, exactly?

Hamas Was Elected to Lead Gaza.
Is Hamas just a lunatic fringe element? I don't believe that's the case. This is more complicated than saying that Hamas is just a bunch of lunatics launching rockets into Israel which really don't kill anyone anyway. Well, maybe they don't kill anyone because the Israelis have perfected their alert systems and people are able to get underground fast enough to avoid the damage the rockets cause.

The "lunatics" firing from southern Lebanon the other day hit a nursing home. Luckily no one was killed. But I didn't see the outrage in the MSM for the attack on a nursing home, like they rant and yell anytime the Israelis hit "civilian" targets. Remember, Hamas and Hezbollah are deliberately attacking civilians in Israel because they enjoy killing them and they think this will cause Israel's eventual destruction. I have yet to hear Hamas say anything to the effect of "Hey Israel, if you would start providing money for jobs and relief into Gaza, we'll stop the rocket attacks". They have not come forward with any negotiable ideas to stop the rocket attacks from what I've heard anywhere. Maybe I just missed it or it hasn't been reported yet. Somehow, I doubt that is the case. I think the rockets are fired into Israel not for any negotiable reasons, but for pure hatred and the hopes of killing more jews. That's hard to negotiate with.

Re: Jack
We have tried to stop it peacefully. I'm not sure if many remember the Minuteman Project that was only in the news for about 15 minutes. We have asked our government to help stop the waves of illegals with nothing left to show for it other than our leaders left with their fingers up their noses.

My answer to you is this: We have tried to do something about it and tried to stop it. But we didn't shoot rockets into Tijuana about it.


West bank settlements
Jack says "One, Israel continues to maintain and expand settlements in the West Bank."

So what? A lot of the settlements are on land that was purchased by Israelis. Are you saying that you think it is alright to sell someone something that you will not let them use? Israel lets Arabs become full citizens why should areas contiguous with Israel and which have historic connections to it be Judenrein?

Talk about simplifying, you are a master of it.
Yes, there are two sides to every story but you are the one not willing to listen to any but your own.

"But rarely is there an explanation that in 10,000 rocket launches, there were virtualy (sic) no deaths."

So it is alright to engage in killing Israelis if you are incompetent at it and only do it in small batches? Talk about foolish.

"These are the acts of lunatics and buffoons, not an existential threat. "

Perhaps the rocket launches in and of themselves aren't an existential threat but Hamas is and they are involved in more than sending rockets across the border.

The only thing you got correct was that Israel is 100 percent within their rights in their reaction.

Hair Puller
That wasn't the quesiton. The question is whether you think we should allow it to happen. The point being, I suggest, that you don't think it is a good idea and that our government should not allow it to happen.

You would stop it if you could. DO you think Israel should stop it from happening in the West Bank?




Negotiating with Hamas.
Hamas: We want to exterminate you and drive you into the sea.

Israel: Let's talk about that. That's not really necessary. What is it you are really looking for?

Hamas: We want to exterminate you and drive you into the sea.

Israel: We will defend ourselves if you try to do that. But let's discuss some ways we might get along. Will it help if we remove some of the settlements from Gaza?

Hamas: You must leave the entire land which was once ours or we will continue to kill you. We want to exterminate you and drive you into the sea.

Israel: What if we were to provide money and technology to help create jobs in Gaza?

Hamas: We'll take anything you give us, but we want to exterminate you and drive you into the sea.

And so it goes.

Daily Steve

We probably agree on the endpoint, as you notes. In fact, I ultimately reach the conclusion that Israeli actions should go much further. But how we reach that endpoint and which directions those actions should take are probably much different.

An irrational process will lead to irrational acts. You may be subject to that. For example, wehn I wrote that the 10,000 rockets didn't actually kill anyone you wrote "So it is alright to engage in killing Israelis if you are incompetent at it and only do it in small batches? Talk about foolish."

I did not say nor did I imply that killing Israelis was OK in any way whatsoever. But the mere fact that I advocated honest and realistic reporting led you to completely misconstrue what I said. How can your opinion be trustworthy if the mere facts of the situation lead you astray so easily?








Should We Negotiate with Lunatics?
If Hamas is just a bunch of lunatics who enjoy firing rockets into Israel, even though they don't kill many Israelis, should anyone consider negotiating with them?

Obama thinks so. Geez, maybe he should have done the negotiating with the Branch Dividians. They too were labeled as lunatics. Maybe he could have prevented the loss of 80 lives instead of taking the Clinton/Reno approach of using force against them. Well, it's something to think about. Same goes for the Ruby Ridge escapade. Our government branded them as lunatics and this made it OK to use force rather than being patient with negotiations. So, if Hamas is just a band of lunatics in a very simplistic view of the situation, shouldn't they be the ones who are "taken out"?

Fundy Christians
want the end of Israel. They are anti-semitic, but have to love the Israelis because the end of that place means Christ is returning, right?

Most of the world believes that Israel should negotiate. Only American 'conservatives' think that Israel is right.

Utter nonsense.

hey Jack instead
of Montana and Canadians how about Texas and Mexican moving across the border and creat a bunch of new towns on the American side? That is happening today costing Texans billions of tax dollars ever year. Will you support Texans sending thousands of rockets into Mexico to stop the illegal invasion of the USA and the creation of Mexican towns in the USA? Will you support Texans sending rockets into Mexico to stop the Mexican army form attacking and treading Texans as happens ever month?


Lon Isreal doesn't
control the flow of goods into Gaza Egypt does. If they can ship in tens of thousands of rockets there is no reason they can't ship in food, medican or anything else needed in Gaza. Hamas elected to import rockets to kill civilians instead of food and medican to care and feed their own people.

Chloe
Please grow a brain and then come back.

Joel
There does not seem to be any reason to think that Hamas is just a bunch of lunatics. Hamas is the representative of a people whose borders are controlled by the Israelis to the degree that Gazans exist at subsistence levels like the worst part of sub-saharan africa. When the Prime Minister Haniyeh did a world tour collecting money to alleviate some of that suffering he was not allowed back in Gaza until the money was put somewhere where it could not be touched inside Gaza. (Note that for buying missiles it is better to have the money outside Gaza where the missiles are the point of this was to prevent Hamas from getting credit for relieving poverty).

Of course the Israeli blockade does not come out of nowhere, I don't mean to suggest it is the start of the mess just that it is the backdrop to the mess.

The situation in Israel is that if they do not feel they are getting the peace deal they want, they can generally wait and hope to get a better deal in the future. What that means is they can stand by while many palestinians die from the lack of a deal and hope that that leads to a deal that human beings wouldn't accept under normal circumstances.

For Hamas, the rockets, even ineffectual ones, do not make life as bad for the worst off Israeli groups as bad as they are for the average Palestinian. But they do make the "wait until enough palestinians die off so they get desperate for a deal" less tenable.

Note that Hamas did not begin to target Bath Sheba until after the Israeli response. They were not using their best weapons when they could have used them to maximize death toll. The bombing of Sderot is not so much a method for maximizing Israeli death as it is one of making the status quo as untenable for the Israelis as it is for the Palestinians.

Of course there is no more reason that it will change the status quo in postivie ways than that the incursion in Gaza will do so. So they just become futile exercises in killing.

Interresting myth Lon
but it doesn't change the fact that Isreal doesn't control acess to Gaza Egypt does. Things are bad in Gaza because Hamas and Egypt want it that way it is to their political advandage to have things as bad as possible in Gaza so they can have more control over the people there. The only reason there is trouble in that region is because the Arab rulers of Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Syria want trouble there its how they maintain their power.

Fundy Christians
Chloe - I think you may be reading a defective version of the Bible. In the final battle, Israel wins! As a fundamental Christian myself, I can tell you that I pray daily for the preservation and safety of Israel, and that against all odds and prophecy, there will be a peaceful resolution to this conflict that is as old as time itself. However, to suggest that Christians are secretly praying for the destruction of Israel simply denotes a complete lack of understanding of the faith that we Christians embrace.

As I have said in other postings, to make an argument for moral equivalence, one must first have morals. Relativism works for some things but not morality.

Ah, no.
Hamas does not represent the majority of people in Palistine, it's the gang that seized power in Palistine. Palistinians are not "their people", Palistinians are their involuntary tools and victims. Props for the Hamas Drama.

Hamas has been bugging the daylights out of Israel for years in order to provoke exactly this response, so they can be the "victims of Jewish aggression".

"The rest of the world wants Israel to negotiate" because the rest of the world gets it's news through a news media that is frightened of Moslems, when not out right controlled by Moslems.

Lon
I can't agree with you. There is some small chance you would be correct if you were talking about Fatah instead of Hamas. But Hamas is not a rational actor.

First, Israel only controls its own border with Gaza. Gaza has a perfectly functional border crossing with Egypt. WHy is that not open? WHy is that not the main avenue for trade into and out of Gaza? Talking about the Israeli blockade without giving equal time to the Egyptian side is not productive.

Likewise, it's too easy to suggest Israelis are holding out for the deal they want when its pretty clear Hamas has the capacity to end this whole thing almost overnight. If Hamas comes out, renounces violence, accepts Israel's right to exist, and commits itself to helping the Palestinian people in Gaza, it's over.

If the situation is as bad as you describe, then it's irrational for Hamas not to concede defeat. If Hamas would rather watch its children starve than accept Israel's existence, they are not rational. A man cannot exist as a sane person if his main raison d'etre is to kill other people.





Mark
Chloe is actually correct on this one point.

Many Christians hold a view of the end times that involves the rise and fall of Israel. The resoration of the Temple is, to some, a necessary precursor to the second coming.

Chloe
Regardless of what you or I think should have happened to the Jews after WW II, your last sentence, while correct, needs a corollary.

It is true that "we cannot allow our concern for Israel to mean that the Palestinians are always third class citizens."

But it is also true that "we cannot allow our hatred of Israel to mean that the Palestinians are always third class citizens."

Cheo study some history
the Palestinians all ready have three countries Egypt, Syria, and Jordan. The only reason they are third class citizans is because their own rulers in their own countries want them to be. There would be no troubles in the region if the Palestinian countries of Egupt, Syria and Jordan took in and cared for their own people.

Jack some people
have been predicting the end times for over a thousand years. Its a pretty common myth ever generation.

Californicators

CA can really turn out the loose screw dingbats...Taft, Chloe, Mule Kooze, to name a few.

Hamas has just instituted Sharia law to Gaza. That includes punishment by crucifixion. Does anyone of sound mind want to perpetuate this street gang government by a cease fire and negotiation? It should be destroyed to the last fanatical lunatic.


Richard
Absolutely true.

But that doesn't change the fact that it's a very real part of modern American Christian mythology.

In fact, as a sidelight, one of the things that needs to be confronted is the idea that literal readings of ancient religious texts is really a problem in the modern world. For some time America has not been in a position to point this out. But that is the reality that has to be confronted.

Hey Chloe...
You say that a state should have been created for the Jewish Holocaust victims in Germany after WWII. Well what about the MILLIONS of Sephardic Jews that have been driven out of THEIR homes in the Arab world? They were fprced to leave nations that they had lived in for centuries, deprived of their property and posessions throufh no fault of their own. Are they supposed to go to Germany as well? Or will the Arab world accept them back and compensate them for their losses(as Israel is expected to do with the Palestinians)? I will be waiting for your answer.

Nothing To Negotiate!!!
It would be GREAT is Israel and Hamas could negotiate and come to a peace agreement(not the cease-fire or ten year truce that Hamas speaks of). There are times when it is appropriate to negotiate. HOWEVER, there can be NO NEGOTIATION with Hamas until they accept Israel's right to exist. You can not negotiate with someone that wants to kill you. What is there for Israel to even discuss with Hamas? Its preferred method of death? When Hamas states a desire for a two/three state solution, it will be time for Israel to come to the table again. Until then, the Israeli government must do what all governments do: protect its citizens and land.

Lon:
There are two borders for Gaza to bring in or ship out goods, including aid. One is the Med. Sea and the other is the border with Egypt. Hamas could be importing food and other essential items such as medicine, building materials, etc. into Gaza from those avenues. Instead, they choose to spend money and resources on rockets to attack Israel. I don't know if it is still the case or not, but didn't Israel allow people from Gaza to enter Israel to work, at least at one point in time? I seem to have also heard that the Red Cross was entering Gaza from Israel. Is that accurate?

I don't buy this story that if Israel would just lighten up on Gaza that Hamas would lead the Palestinians to a peaceful coexistence with Israel as a neighbor. They could even work out some trade agreements with Israel if they were to take a peaceful route.

When Hamas comes out and says that they recongnize the right of Israel to exist, then I say that they should be brought to the negotiating table. For now, they are like a drug cartel who would rather live outside of the law and use violence to try and further their agenda. If Hamas was not the elected leadership in Gaza, I'd be willing to push the Israelis to agree to stop their current operation. Of course, if Hamas was not running Gaza, and if no rockets were hitting Israel, then I doubt Israel would be on the offensive.

Jack I'd say
the bigger problem is the growth of socialism or government slavery in the USA. In fact that is the real danger from literal readings of ancient religious texts.

Genocide of Palestinian people
It's not even a war, it's a genocide of the Palestinian people. Israel is killing hundreds of innocent people, women, children, and anyone who tries to enter the area for aid. If you have a problem with the rockets then aim for the rocket launchers, not innocent people, you cowards.

I hope the US or another big country will intervene and conquer Israel already. Of course it won't be America, but hopefully China or Russia will get involved.

Also, why do Americans often mistakenly say Hamas when they mean Palestine?

The American government needs to recognize Palestine as a country on par with the Israeli regime. Palestine had a democratic election and the American's favorite lost, so get over it.

The Arabs Tried to Fix this in 48.
The Arabs tried to carry out Chloes' wishes in 1948, 1967 and other times. Each time they lost. They tried to drive the Israelis into the sea, but failed miserably. Some of the Arab countries recognized that Israel would indeed continue on and have quit fighting to exterminate Israel. Egypt and Jordan both did so. When was the last time Israel invaded either of those two nations since those two nations agreed that Israel has a right to exist?

But Hamas and Hezbollah have not quit. They continue the war and even though they lose every time, they continue the attacks. I don't know how you convince people with such hatred to take a different road. They are very vocal and forceful in their statements about their desires to eliminate Israel from the face of the earth. Their maps don't even show Israel on them. They teach their youngins to hate in their schools. They teach them that there is nothing more glorius than to die while attacking Israel or anyone who supports Israel, such as the Great Satan, the USA. How do you change such a mindset?

Genocide?
Hardly. Israel could drop a nuke on Gaza if genocide was their real agenda. They have been going after Hamas targets but some civilians are always going to get caught up in hostilities when the bullets start flying. Hamas hides amongst civilians in order to try and prevent attack and make hay from any civilian casualties when they are attacked. Hamas runs Gaza. They were elected, yes. So, if they are the legitimate government of Gaza, and they are firing rockets into Israel, that's agression by a nation state. What's there to get over. We sometimes refer to our own government as the democratically controlled or republican controlled government, instead of always referring to the United States. That's nothing to make a big deal about. Hamas is the guilty party. Illinois elected Rod Blago. It turns out he's a crook. Do we blame all of Illinois' voters for his crookedness. Not unless they support him afterwards.

Umm Jared
Tell your friends to stop placing their rocket launchers in the midts of densely packed CIVILIANS. I guess Hamas has a right to launch attacks from homes and non-military installations and Israel is just supposed to smile and bear it? I regret the deatsh of innocents, and it is tragic that innocent Palestinian women and children suffer. But it is the democratically elected leaders, as you so happily point out, that put their own civilians in the line of fire. I am a Mother and if my child lost her life because my leadership fought from my home, I would be angry with my own leadership.

For Retired Geek @ 08:34
I can remember even 17 years ago, how unreliable North American LSM was then--specifically, writing in an article about India "Bihar declined from being India's third-richest state..." (note: it never was third-richest either in total or per-capita SGDP, always at dead-bottom in the latter--and India also never had only three states); and unfortunately, LSM has actually degenerated even from that sorry state.

Genocide of Palestinians
Jared if you are right, then the Israelis must be the most pathetic practicioners of genocide ever to walk this planet. After all the Israeli Arab population(you know, the ones that syaed behind in 1948) has increased tremendously. The refugee population has increased as well. Not much of a comparison to the amount of Armenians killed by the Turks, the Jews, Roma, Poles and other undesirables slaughtered by the Third Reich, the million killed in Rwanda in less than three months. But yes, accprding to you the Israelis are committing genocide.

The problem is that
Isreal will never follow through with what must be done because they are basically a civized nation of laws.

The only why to handle Hamas is the why Niccolo Machiavelli outlined in the Prince.

Men ought either to be indulged or utterly destroyed, for if you merely offend them they take vengeance, but if you injure them greatly they are unable to retaliate, so that the injury done to a man ought to be such that vengeance cannot be feared.


For Just_American
The "genocide" which Jared claims Israel perpetrates on Palestinians is basically akin to the "discrimination and genocide" which Pakistanis (and their lobbyists in Congress such as Edolphus Townes and Major Owens) oft claim India perpetrates on Muslims. Stats for Indian Muslims:
(*) 1951 census 33 million (out of total population 365 millions)
(*) 1991 census 139 million (total census population 845 million)
(*) 2001 census 148 million due to demand by mullahs for "more-rigourous" criteria to classify people as Muslim (using less-rigourous criteria of 1901-1991, the numbers would be 192 million--out of total census population of 1,037 millions)

Add to that the fact that three Indian Presidents, three Indian VP's (two of whom later were appointed President), one IAF Chief of Staff (from 1978-1981), over 80 Brigadier-plus-equivalent Armed Services (all branches) officers, several State governors and CM's of at least three non-Muslim-majority states, country's first Education Minister and one Home Minister (US equivalent: combined of Attorney General and Chief Justice SCOTUS) have been Muslims.

Yeah, Israel "discriminates against and commits genocide on" Muslims in the same way India does--in the irrecoverably-spaced mindset of groats such as "Jared", Owens and Townes!

Simple Trade
The Arab nations kicked out several hundred thousand Jews after 1947, seizing their property and lands.
One tiny, flegling nation, Israel, welcomed those refugees with open arms, providing them food, shelter, and economic opportunities at a massive cost to the nation.

Since nobody insists that the Arabs return to those refugee Jews their stolen lands and property, let's just make a fair trade. The several Arab nations can absorb the Palestinian refugees and give THEM food, shelter and economic opportunities, just like the Israelis did their Jewish brethren. Since everyone is willing to let the very real wrongs against the Jewish refugees lie forgotten and unrighted, then surely we can do the same with the supposed wrongs the Palestinian Arabs have suffered. It's a fair trade: stolen goods for stolen goods; stolen land for stolen land; immigrant refugees for immigrant refugees.

There are two problems, of course. First is that the world pretends to CARE about the plight of the Palestinian Arabs, while no one, particularly none of the whining liberals on this board, has ever cared one whit about the same hardships and wrongs inflicted upon those Jews kicked out of Arab nations.

The second problem is that the Arab world would NEVER care for and assimilate their brethren the way Israel did the Jewish refugees. When given the chance, the Arabs cold-heartedly kept the Palestinians penned into squalid refugee camps, kept them hopeless and sick and hungry, to use as tools for propaganda and to recruit them as terrorists.


Jack
Many liberal posters in the past several days have denounced conservatives because they cannot carry on a civil discourse, or that they are so intellectually-limited that they can only insult and call names.

Your post #5, with no provocation, contains the following: "he was simply saying there are two sides to every story. (I know, conservatives can't handle that concept)"

Why would you write that? Are you so intellectually-limited that you must resort to insults?


Egypt
A number of people have made the obvious, but as it turns out wrong, point that Egypt could simply open its border to feed Gaza.

The Israeli pull out of Gaza was done under an arrangement by which Egypt agreed to keep that border closed. There are procedures in place so that the Israelis can observe what is going through.

Periodically the Gazans have broken through a wall to Egypt which then lets goods flow until Israel threatens to do something about it and the wall is closed.

It is an interesting question whether Egypt should obey such a deal. And presumably if things got bad enough in Gaza or public opinion in Egypt threatened to topple the government there if it kept helping Israel then Egypt would abandon its deal with Israel. But the idea that Egypt is doing it for any reason other than that Israel made it a condition of the Gaza pull out is simply a mistake.

It is Israel and noone else that is preventing goods from getting into Gaza. It is Israel that threatens to sink any ships trying to get to Gaza by sea.

The fact that you want this not to be true just reveals the problematic nature of Israel's actions. But that does not affect the fact that they are Israel's actions. (Some defense can be made of those actions, but denial is not a defense.)

What's In a Name? A: Success
Jon Stewart with his rapier wit is fond of skewering the foibles of others but isn't it interesting that this comedian, who loves to blister the contradictions of others, mostly conservatives, is a self-created fake?

Ain't that right, Jon Leibowitz? LOL

Proportion
"For months, Hamas has lobbed rockets into Southern Israel. Thousands of them, in fact. Israel decided enough was enough, that it was time to do everything possible to stamp out these implementers of terror."

There is a graph, not far down the page, that clarifies casualties.

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/d9d90d845776b7af85256d0800 6f3ae9/be07c80cda4579468525734800500272!OpenDocument

oooh Jared #13
you read the Bible..my my my..Ezekial 38 talks about that very thing..only got a news flash for ya..YOU LOSE!
Chloe, are you that ashamed of your heritage that you have such bile regarding the land GOD
gave your people? That explains why so many of your ilk voted for O. Some things never change regardless of history, there were some like you back in the Old Testament days, but there was always a remnant that loved and worshipped God.
We 'fundy's" as you sweetly put it, LOVE Israel,
for many reasons and we know that if we curse
Israel God will curse us (and the U.S. if we ever turn away from supporting her) and He will bless those who bless Israel. Are you calling God a liar?

Husker2
The present open military conflict between Hamas and Israel, and the plethora of columns this war has generated in the last week by the columnists carried here on TownHall, have had an unexpected side benefit: judging by the submissions of the leftists we've seen on these threads, this war has caused the left to shed its masks and show us in unmistakeable clarity the utter blindness, morally, intellectually, and psychologically, that it is imprisoned in.

Not that most of us conservatives who come here needed convincing of that anyway, but as it's been said, war brings focus to things that peace never could.

Disproportionate Response
Dear Mr. Gallagher,

As you've pointed out, many thoughtful and well-meaning commentators have agonized over Israel's disproportionate
response (400+ jihadists dead vs. four Israeli ones).

The answer to this conumdrum is that Jewish blood has ceased to be cheap.

E. David Litvak

Those Crazy Canucks
Since when did the analogy of Canada raining rockets into the States fit for the Israel/Gaza conflict? Is that supposed to help the audience get the picture? Maybe if you had continued with the image of the States imposing a complete blockade of all humanitarian aid supplies -- not just to survive, but to bring to its knees the elected Canuck terrorist group in charge -- then the analogy would be a bit more complete. The Hamas/Israel cease-fire was not the only element here. Israel SHOULD be supported, and the fact that Hamas wants to push them in the ocean is a driver for clarity in the mind. However, to suggest that Israel has no culpability in the situation -- sweet saints as you would -- is just not realistic, but it IS how books are sold. Seeing a situation as complex doesn't rally passions and sell airtime. John Stewart got a studio cheer for making a statement about how both actors in this conflict are imperfect. He doesn't sell lots of books though, because complexity and dual-culpability is not exciting, fight-fight, win-lose, red-blue, meat to the wolves kind of stuff. Unfortunately, be it conservative or liberal, extremists on both sides paint themselves into a corner they can't get out of -- at least until they get old enough to no longer care about making money and their image and can finally call things for what they really are. Noone has a monopoly on the truth.

Contempt
is something conservatives feel about our country.

Does reality count?
1. Israel is often portrayed here as some sort of over-whelmed player in the Middle East. That is nonsense. Israel is in fact the 800 pound gorilla of the Middle East.

2. How did Israel become our great pal or as Obama said the other day "our great friend and ally" after the attack on Gaza?

3. What has Israel ever done for the USA?

4. How has Israel ever helped the USA in the Middle East?

5. Why is every national politician in the USA afraid to say anything critical about Israel?

6. What does the Holocaust have to do with anything that Israel does to the Palestinians?

7. Name a bigger mistake in the past 60 years than the creation of the state of Israel?

8. Name the Israeli contributions and help they have offered to the USA in either Afghanistan or Iraq?

9. Name a nation that gets more USA tax dollars (along with all those neat weapons) than Israel?

10. Why do you suppose that Israel will never allow independent observers, reporters, or any type of inspections in their various "operations" such as Gaza or when they were trashing Lebanon for a decade?


tom
Here's your answers:

1. Israel does not raise its children to strap bombs on themselves and run into crowds of other children before detonating

2. Israel does not pack those same bombs, that they do not strap to their kids, with ball bearings.

3. Israel also does not pack those same bombs, that they do not strap onto their kids, with rat poison.

4. Israel also does not pack those same bombs, that they do not raise their children from birth to be the bearers of, with chlorine gas.

5. Israel also does not pack those same bombs, that their mothers do not brag about putting on their own children, with a.i.d.s. infected blood.

6. Israel also does not pack those same bombs, that they do not explode causing the body parts including intestines, skulls, brains, eyes, hands, fingers, whole faces, naked burned torsoes, etc. to be scattered over several city blocks, in the "best" possible way so as to cause the foregoing goal to come true.

7. Israel also does not vow to destroy their blood enemies, even after not responding to THOUSANDS OF ROCKETS, down to the last living soul and they never have.

8. Oh, this is getting old. You, "tom", are a stupid piece of nazi shiite and most likely a child abusing pervert so, WHO THE HELL CARES WHAT YOU THINK? You are pro-death. You are worse than a Chamberlain (from what I understand, he actually regreted the error of his ways). You want the monsters to win. You throw in with the nazi scum of the Earh which makes you no better than them. You are the getaway driver at the drive-by. You are the one offering candy at the playground. Go to hell.

2spothipshot
Does it upset you when you cannot even attempt to make a plausible reply to the questions I posed? You make yourself seem like a mindless goofball with your redundant sophomoric replies.

The first thing that any intelligent person does in a debate is take an honest look at the opposite side and formulate why your position might be more correct. Instead, like a lost lemming who has a position but doesn't even know why, you try to act tough and use insults. What a dolt!

Actually there is a soution.
Israel's biggest problem is most likely not Gaza, or Hamas, or the Pals...it's simple demographics...and they know it.

That is why Israel has such a racist immigration policy and why they are forced to act like they do per the "settlements" (a phony name for land grabbing) and "relocating" Arabs and Pals. What would the USA say if any other nation based it's immigration on race and religion?

Israel knows that the birth rate of the 1.2 million legal Arab citizens of Israel will soon be their major issue. So why don't all those Americans who seem to have such love for Israel simply allow the 6 million Jews in Israel come over here. Heck, Bush has allowed twice that many illegal Mexicans into our nation so why not give Israel (or let guys like Bernie Madoff and the Wall Street bankers buy) maybe Detroit and the UP or Idaho (or one of the states bordering Mexico would be great) and let that be their nation?

We would save about $4,000,000,000.00 of our tax dollars that we now send to Israel and we could find out exactly how good of a neighbor they are. Plus, then the Arabs and Muslims would lose one of their main reasons for hating us and if they screwed with us we could crush them with no qualms.

And then instead of simply controlling our politicians Israel could actually vote for them!

Pro-death is pro-death
Talk about non-responsive! You give substance free vagaries so I get to the meat of it and you respond w/ obfuscation.

ANSWER THIS: With the reality given by me above of exactly what the palestinians do to human flesh that they do not approve the existence of, please tell us, what would you have their victims do? Oh, that's right! They asked to be raped. They begged to be splattered, like so much corned beef, all over their cities and towns. You see, tom the grim reaper, you have it backwards. The palestinians produce death as their #1 import/export business, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THEY LOVE. The Israelis on the other hand act like civilized humans and try to help their fellow man.

Anyway, prove that wrong.

tom
I get it now. Evil people prosper and make all kinds of advances in medicine and technology AS A SMOKE SCREEN for THE REAL DESIRED PURPOSE of KILLING POOR, INNOCENT, JIHADISTS who MUST resort to doing some "unpleasantries" since all they have is rocks and such.

Also, GOOD people tell their enemy, and the world, that they will win because their mothers love death more than they love their own children. Obviously, when considering the evil plottings of the jooooooos, that is a very reasonable way to run a society. I mean, ANY old run of the mill society could go around inventing medical cures and doing humanitarian work. How mundane! It takes a people w/ REAL chutzpah and imagination to concieve, raise and train up a whole generation of kids to be walking, mass-murdering bombs in Nikes.

I've finally seen the light. Thanks tom. Oh yeah, and a hearty hile hitler to you too,
allu akbar - 2spotjewboy

2spothipshot
Let's see what you really know about those "generation of kids to be walking, mass-murdering bombs in Nikes." that you mention.

Tell us exactly how many suicide attacks occurred inside Israel in 2006 and 2007?

Or do you just run off the mouth based on what you "think" is correct?

And why would you say "hile hitler"...is that some sort of salute for stupid American draft dodgers when they cannot make a point? None of us former military veterans (Nam-1967) would ever say such a thing.

tom said,
"Tell us exactly how many suicide attacks occurred inside Israel in 2006 and 2007?"

That's too easy. It's because of that human rights atrocity that the joooos foisted on your Pals. You know. The fence dummy. Those heartless jooooos! Now your Pals have to satiate themselves with the blood of border guards and others AT the fence. How inconsiderate. I remember a couple of years ago when the fence was new, you know, your poor Pals had settle for blowing up some WOMAN (YUCK! I know, doesn't it just gross you out!?). Fortunately for them, and by extension, you, she was a filthy joooooooo w/ a brood of kids at home, so at least they accomplished something useful.

I'm getting kind of tired from this, but maybe later we can talk about the joys of strapping bombs packed w/ nails and such on the backs of dumb shmucks w/ down syndrome. Something tells me that you are really proud of your Pals for that bit of ingenuity. I know you don't pray, but you can always keep a good thought that your Pals will be able to spill more "innocent" (yeah right!) joooooooo blood. Good night Heir Goebbels!

Ten points to understand the conflict
Points to remember :
1) The land was given by God to Israel ; read your Bible and believe it. The covenants with Abraham, Issac and Jacob were never revoked nor totally fulfilled for the land provisions and temporal blessings due to Israel's disobedience! Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom and when he was not received as Messiah this kingdom was postponed till his second coming! See KJV Zech 12:10-14:21 with Isaiah 52-54. Judging from current events it may occur by 2037 or 2019 !
2) Archaeology clearly shows mountains of proof that this was Israel's ancient homeland.
3) God says to Israel : I will bless them that bless thee and curse them that curse thee. This was not revoked! See Gen 12:1-3 .
4) God prophesies in the OT he will be furious with the nations for parting his land and will "tear them to pieces". See Jer 3:2.
5) In the Psalm 83:1-8 it is prophesied that the very Muslim nations we see in the news today surrounding Israel desire what the Psalm says: to be confederate against Israel to destroy her and remove her name so she will be remebered no more.
6) God prophesys that Ishmael "will be a wild man; his hand against every man and every man's hand against him" in Gen 16:2. The Ishmaelites are ancestral to the muslims and people groups that formed the "Palestinians" of today.
7) If you think the spiritual implications stretched out above are lightweight in contribution to today's MidEast problem, think again! SEE Part 2 to follow.

Ten points to understand - pt 2
Points to remember :
8) While Israel has not always been perfect in her actions, she has tried very hard by giving away land for peace and having the agreement canceled with violence by the likes of Hamas before the ink could really dry-- not once but many times over 40+ years.
9) We need to be on the right side of history: with Israel and with God! The non-Christian world understands this instinctively by opposing the flow of history toward the Kingdom's establishment which requires the land for King Jesus!!!
10) No doubt this understanding will not be understood to be very "understanding" by others outside of scriptural truth.

Question : Do you really want to ally yourself with that which opposes God's will? Israel is now defending itself against months of rocket attacks on their land (His land?) . Therefore, let Israel do the job needed and pray for minimum loss of life on each side and the destruction of Hamas.

Please note those tunnels that bring guns and rockets into Gaza from Egypt should be able to carry in bread, milk etc and humanitarian aid and even provide access to Egypt where work could be found ! Hmmmmm! Imagine that : the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt should be able to accept and feed and help their brother Islamic religionists ? Right ?

Ten points to understand - pt 2
Points to remember :
8) While Israel has not always been perfect in her actions, she has tried very hard by giving away land for peace and having the agreement canceled with violence by the likes of Hamas before the ink could really dry-- not once but many times over 40+ years.
9) We need to be on the right side of history: with Israel and with God! The non-Christian world understands this instinctively by opposing the flow of history toward the Kingdom's establishment which requires the land for King Jesus!!!
10) No doubt this understanding will not be understood to be very "understanding" by others outside of scriptural truth.

Question : Do you really want to ally yourself with that which opposes God's will? Israel is now defending itself against months of rocket attacks on their land (His land?) . Therefore, let Israel do the job needed and pray for minimum loss of life on each side and the destruction of Hamas.

Please note those tunnels that bring guns and rockets into Gaza from Egypt should be able to carry in bread, milk etc and humanitarian aid and even provide access to Egypt where work could be found ! Hmmmmm! Imagine that : the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt should be able to accept and feed and help their brother Islamic religionists ? Right ?

Israel returns what they were given
If someone threw thousands of apples in my backyard and nobody would make them stop I'd be mad, too. When I'd had enough of it, I'd bag all those apples and dump them right back where they came from. And you would, too. And that is what Israel is doing. GO ISRAEL! And this time don't stop until the job is finished.

God delusion
if rightwing religious nuts like Mike Gallagher would face the truth that god doesn't exist, then we could settle problems in the middle east. How do I know god doesn't exist? If he (he must be a man) existed, science would have proven god's results.

Catfish Keith
In Re your 7:46am posting: WHAAAA???!!!
I would ask you to explain yourself but I would rather not hear the tortured and twisted liberal illogic this early.

I guess we now know why they say that fish stink from the head down don't we Keith.

Gallagher's premise
>He believes that many American liberals, who have an utter contempt for the United States already, simply view Israel as a U.S. outpost in the Middle East.<

Utter contempt for the United States? As long as this type of characterization is the premise for discussion of this or any other issue, it is unlikely that progress can be made on any front.

I watch Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert occasionally, and I have never once thought,

"These guys have utter contempt for the United States."

god&Bravo
hey "Bravo" do you like the taste of Lobster? Also, can you give me one scientific example of the proof of god?

Catfish Keith @9:04am
Ok so far you have brought up God and lobsters. Neither of which were mentioned in the column. I presume that you are another of those bizarre liberals who wish to argue over topics not brought up by the columnist.

No dear boy I do not have proof of the existence of God, scientific or otherwise, anymore than you have proof of the nonexistence of God. The difference is that, as a respectful agnostic, I am not seeking any such proof in either instance.

You and people like you, are one of the reasons that nonbelievers are often seen as anti-God, rather than just lacking faith. You are representative of militant nonbelievers who have no respect for other’s beliefs while demanding that they all respect your views.

Do please grow up before trying to enter into adult conversation.

13Bravo
You make a good point regarding CatfishKeith. Why is he so angry at believers? Another question....why are liberal Jews angry at Israel...self hate?????

Are they related?
>You and people like you, are one of the reasons that nonbelievers are often seen as anti-God, rather than just lacking faith.<

I don't believe that not believing in a God, as it is presented in the major religions, necessarily means that a person is lacking in faith.

Hey Catfish
I'm with ya man, just as soon as the billion or so Muslims believe they don't need to kill Non Muslims....PUTZ!

Your proof?
>just as soon as the billion or so Muslims believe they don't need to kill Non Muslims.<

Of course the vast majority of Muslims don't believe they have to kill Non Muslims.

If they did, how do you explain that the 10 million Muslims that live in the United States, are statistically a very low percentage of killers by percentage of population, Muslim or non-Muslim?

How do you explain that thousands of non-Muslim businessmen and women operate daily in heavily Muslim areas around the world with no fear of being killed for bring non-Muslim?

Is it possible that you are the victim of a propoganda campaign perpetrated by persons who have had virtually no contact with Muslims ever in their lives?

loco @10:02am
I think that it is going to take someone much smarter than I to figure out the answer to that. I suspect that Keith is just one of those aimless angry people who want to make others feel as they do. I never have understood that type of hate.

Pancho @10:06am
Good morning sir. I did not mean to imply that one had to follow or not follow the major religions to have or not have faith. My point is that those who proclaim that there is no God are obviously lacking in faith. One may have faith in other forms of gods. For me; I was raised as a Christian but found that I did not believe watch was being taught. I still hold dear the principles and morals of Christianity i learned in church though I do not believe.

I have researched different religions (Wicca, Islam, Judaism, Zoroastrian etc) only to find that I was unable to believe in what any of them presented. Often I ran into hate for Christianity (from Wiccans), for Jews (from Muslims) and so on. The greatest lesson I have learned from my travels through the different religions is to live and let live. Honor all religions and disrespect none.

BTW the one exception I make to this rule are the pseudo-religions such as global warming. These deserve no respect and I give them none.

Catfish Keith @10:57am
Well now you did bring up subjects not related to the issues that Mr. Gallagher wrote about. You instead went off on an attack on Christianity. If you are not anti-God then do please explain your remarks about God. I stand by my assessment.

My handle is 13Bravo. Google that and army and see what you learn. Ego has nothing to do with it.

Your assertion that there is no God places you in an untenable position. It is impossible to prove that something does not exist so your position is ridiculous. The Christians, Jews, Muslims, Wiccans and all religions may one day have that proof that you so require. All they need is time; no amount of time will ever be enough for you to prove nothingness.

As for evolution; it is just another religion with no proof, so you are not completely without faith. Who knows, like the other faithful your proof may one day be found.


Chloe
You are stereotyping. I support Israel, and am a Deist, not a Christian, Jew, Buddhist, et. al.


Jews purchased 80% of of Israel proper, and won the rest fair and square.

Israel is not accepted, but Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Jordan, etc. are. Why? It is called antiJewish bigotry, a bigotry you own.

Chloe
Wherever Jews settled, they have "given the nation a belly ache" (Hertzl). If the West had taken a chunk of Germany, and created a Jewish homeland, how long do you believe it would be before another Holocaust annihilating European Jews? Not too long. Just read current European news regarding the continual antiJewish attacks in Europe.

Besides, Jewish land and valuablea were confiscated by the Reich, similar to what the Arabs and Persians, and a few self-hating Jews want.

Chloe, they want all infidels dead or dhimmi, and this includes you.

I see the question posed:

What has Israel ever done for the USA?

For one thing, Israel has voted with the USA in the UN more than any other nation and that includes Great Britain.

Life
here it is: amino acids (building blocks of life) embedded in asteriods (as they are today), hit the earth's warm and wet lagoons during a time conducive to climate and the first cells were formed, became yeast then made it all the way to the dinosaurs to prove evolution.
Religion is a myth and you all know it....

Mr Gallagher
One day before I die I hope to learn why so many Jewish people in the U.S.support the left,when it is clear many of them condemn Israel every day?

Political shows such as Stewart are the reason so many of our youth are so left-leaning now. They ridicule anything conservative and praise the other side.

Catfish Keith @2:17pm
Ulp, choke, gulp, gag, glank puke. Oh man I tried, I really did try, but I just couldn’t swallow it. Geez look at this mess. All over my keyboard, I really shouldn’t have had that tuna salad sandwich for lunch.

So you were there when it all happened? Wow I am truly impressed. Of course you caught all of this on video for us lesser mortals to view. Your using the words “to prove evolution” does not actually mean that your attempt was successful. Proof would be something tangible, say a verifiable transitional fossil.

You proved nothing except that you do not understand what I mean when I ask for evidence or proof. An opinion is not proof. You would make a lousy scientist or lawyer.

Cathouse Thief:
Darwin famously stated that he would let his THEORY (remember it is STILL unproven) stand or fall on the fossil record. Problem with the fossil record: there are NO intermediate forms of life.

For evolution to be a very slow process as Darwin claimed for each minute stage there'd HAVE to be HUNDREDS of miniscule "stages" in between. WHERE are the hundreds of thousands of fossils of fish developing legs? NONE exist.

EACH ichthyian species would have to have it's own progression of intermediate forms with protruberances, then lobes, then limbs, then lungs combined with gills then gills vanishing then lungs taking over then eyes adapting to use above water, etc.

SHOW me thousands of levels of developement from silurian to Triassic to Jurassic. I'll settle for CLEAR unbroken links from pre-cambrian to Silurian. We all talk about the "missing link" from ape to Man but we can't find a missing link from fish to squirrel.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

13Bravo
Tried to give you some cover fire. Hope it helped buddy. BTW, I'm Roman Catholic. We learn evolutionary THEORY in science class but we're not wedded to it. It is a THEORY. Note it's not taught at the LAW of evolution because that does not exist.

Note that the schedule of evolution though (including the Big Bang, aka "let there be light") follows the progression in Genesis. Hmmmm.


-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Liberals can't comprehend ...
... the inborn God-given right of individuals to fight against aggression.

Gallagher states:
"If Canada suddenly started raining rockets down on Buffalo, New York, I wonder if there would be worldwide condemnation over the United States' inevitable “disproportionate response.”

Not likely."

I understand the point but it saddens me to disagree. There would be liberals who would justify such an attack by saying "we had it coming." These are the same people who consider 9/11 a justified attack on the U.S. There is a viewpoint among liberals that Israelites or Americans or any people should prevent violent confrontation at any cost, even if avoiding confrontation costs the lives of their fellow countrymen. But of course, not if it involves their own.

I was confronted by a carjacker last summer who was armed with a knife. How I wish there had been a liberal around to step between the two of us and talk him out of his warlike ways.

Lacking a liberal to solve the problem for me I solved it by telling the guy I was going to fight as hard as I could. He decided against escalating the conflict and I kept my car and my blood. The microcosmic point is that sometimes war is the only good choice.

Israel is acting in concert with a belief stated by one of our patriot forefathers that it is better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

Israel has a God-given right to protect itself and the courage to do so. May they succeed.

Chuckles
PS. In case you think I'm a Jew writing in support of Israel, I'm an English-German Methodist.

Wrat Wrangler
An excellent posting @3:21pm. You make my point as well as, if not better than I could. The problem with Keith and his fellow travelers is that they have made up their minds and do not wish to hear dissenting opinions.

I went to the First Church of the Nazarene until I was in my early teens. The Catholic Church was one of the houses of religion I looked into when I was investigating different religions. I thought that a different form of Christianity might make a difference to me. No luck. To be honest I envy those who have faith. I try to explain to people that for me it’s as if I were born with a handicap, only instead of being blind or deaf I was born without the ability to believe in anything beyond the physical.

Thanks for the backup. When one is dealing with the irrational, one needs all the help one can get. You know it has been decades since I read the Bible. I will have to look into the similarities between evolution and Genesis.

never have so many...
been made to do so much for so few while alienating so many.

The Israel-America relationship is stunning, really. There are times when the U.S. is the ONLY country in the U.N. voting to support some radical action in the region by Israel. Is it not odd that we alone fathom the justice in such a case?

We have as many Arabic Americans as Jews, but do you EVER see them among the analysts/experts discussing the M.E.? Seriously, a round table will include Krauthammer, Kristol, David Gregory and Mara Liasson-- no bias there!

Israel is a country of only 5 million, but it manages to be the focal point of continual unrest in a region where opponents outnumber it 200:1. It survives through grit and a fortune in American military support. Arguably, the Iraq war was engendered by the neoCONS (Feith, Perle, Wolfy, Libby, etc.) then pulling the strings of Bush Doctrine policy to fulfill their Project for a New American Century (PNAC) which called as early as 1996 for the takeout of Iraq to establish permanent American bases there for Israel's defense.

http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/spheresInfluence.h tml

http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/09/02/john-mearsheimer-a nd-stephen-walt-pro-israel-lobby-influence-over-us-foreign- policy-on-the-recent-israel-lebanon-war/

Presidente Jorge Bush was asked recently about his greatest regret of his presidency-- he said he wished he had had better intelligence about Iraq. Think about that-- and about WHO convinced him to go there-- and REALLY WHY.

Now we have the $3 TRILLION mistake-- helluva time for it!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_c ontributors/article3419840.ece

NSA
go to the websites of the National Academy of Sciences and type in evolution or global warming.
I suspose you fundamentalists think a man w/a long beard up in Heaven created the dinosauers by sprinkling dust? Evolution is a scientifc fact, see twins being born, cell separation.

13Bravo and Wrat Wrangler...
...made this thread worth reading. Incorporating logic AND humor, who'da thunk it? Y'all can by-pass "Cathouse Thief" and orifice1, but don't miss those other two. Good stuff.

Catfish Keith
Catfish - that is a very interesting theory. I will buy it 100% if you can tell me where the amino acids, the astroids, the earth and its lagoons, and those first cells came from. We who believe in religion can explain it all, whereas you cannot explain any of it.

Catfish Keith @5:24pm
Ok big boy, I did as you ask and saw nothing stating that we were in a global warming cycle. All I found was a lot of talk on climate change which is redundant since the climate is always changing. In point of fact I do not deny global warming; I merely have seen no evidence that the globe is warmer than is normal. My objection to the global warming cult is that they blame it on mankind. It has never been proven that humans cause the climate to change.

Let me ask you some questions concerning global warming:
1. What is the Earth’s normal temperature?
2. Who decided what the planetary temperature should be set at?
3. If it is decided that we actually have overcorrected and the Earth comes to be in a global cooling cycle. Do we then begin to release excess “greenhouse gases” to warm the Earth up again?

As fascinating as it can be to observe any birth (as a former EMT I have delivered a few babies) I do not see how any birth (even twins) proves anything about evolution.

Does anybody remember what the column was actually about? I think that we may have strayed.

2spothipshot
Thank you very much, but most of the credit really should go to Catfish Keith. If he hadn’t given us so many strange proclamations we would never have had anything to come back on him with. Feel free to join in, the water’s fine. You know this is kind of fun in a mean sort of way. I feel like a cat playing with a new mouse that is too stupid to run and hide. Come here little mousie!

Catfish vs. God
Were you born extemely ignorant or did you work hard to become so? Nothing like an atheistic barking moonbat Liberal denying the existence of something he has NO understanding of to prove Liberalism & atheism to be the utter mental disorders they are. All men who deny the existence of God are utter fools who are putting their own heads in the noose so to speak. Will you be so defiant in your unbelief when the gates of Hades open after the judgement as well? You have to ask yourself which is more important, attempting to prove God doesn't exist or saving your soul. You have nothing to lose & alot to gain by accepting God's great gift of salvation through the blood shed by Jesus Christ on Calvary. You have NOTHING to gain in your vain attempts to prove God does not exist. Think about it before it's too late.

Wrat W
Yeah, no sense in believing scientific theory when you have all that solid stuff that guys have stuck into the current bible. Right?

Tell us, do you believe literally everything in the bible or do you pick and choose what to believe?

If you are a literal believer, I have some very interesting questions for you. We will start with Genesis and work our way down from there.

Please advise.


Israel is not going anywhere.
What sane person could conceptualize Israel just disappearing?

BUT... Muslims insist that that is what must happen to achieve peace. Yes, Hamas and Hezbolah and Al Qaida and all the other outfits in the Muslim world, including such "benign" gangs as CAIR, are definitely insane. Every one of them.

The only thing they respect is superior fire power and the willingness to use it. Israel has to kill many more thousands to get to the point where the Islamic murderers will really think twice about more suicide attacks and so forth.

The will NEVER honor a treaty. The have to be killed.



Libstomper
Right On!!!!

Sortof like Libstomper said,

When someone demands that a person of faith
PROVE that faith, it is a sure sign that they
do not understand the very concept of faith.

It is not and need not be proven; it is faith.

On the other hand, those of a scientific, mechanistic,
secular outlook who proclaim that there is no God…

Are essentially saying that they, the mostly hairless
primates on a tiny planet of a minor star, have figured
out the truth of the entire cosmos from their limited
perspective, from this place, in their short lifetimes.

Is that not the very hubris, the very arrogance of a god?

Isn’t that the arrogance of AlGore: “The debate is over.”

To the rational scientific mind, the debate is never over,
there is always more to be learned and discovered.

Therefore the only valid scientific perspective is
Agnosticism, which means I question, but do not KNOW.

So insist there is no god is simply another statement of
faith, without sure knowledge.

To insist otherwise is self-delusion.

Mary/Origins
the physical world has no need for a creator since thats a human concept. Looking for the origins of rocks going back billions of years is not life related, it was there before the god concept was created.

Mr Difar @8:49pm
You shame me sir. Here I am enjoying myself with my little mousie and you actually address the issue at hand. Not only do you keep on subject, you are incredibly astute and accurate in your analysis. My hat is off to you.

My personal belief is that should the terrorists and their patron nations ever actually succeed and overrun Israel, the last act of the military leaders of Israel will be to launch their nukes and wipe out millions of Muslims.
Want to talk about a Pyrrhic victory? The Muslims need to decide if they are willing to see Mecca evaporated. Just how important is it to them to eliminate Israel? If you do not believe that the Israelis have Mecca targeted along with every capital city the Muslims control you are kidding yourself. I know that if I were in charge of Israel I would do just that.

Catfish Keith @9:29pm
Oh joy, my mousie is back. Well back off topic.

Hi mousie, er Keith, glad to see you came back. At 7:24pm I posed 3 global warming questions for you; please answer them.

Terrorist Hamas must go
There is most definately a need for God, and that is NOT a human concept; it is a divine concept.
The earth is NOT millions or billions of years old. Our earth is about 6,000 years old. It was 2,000 years from Adam to Abraham, 2,000 years from Abraham to Christ,and 2,000 years from Christ to the present.

Israel has shown great restraint and patience with Hamas, and if they choose to continue to fire rockets at Israel then Israel has every right to defend itself and try to destroy the terrorist Hamas before Israel is destroyed. Anyone who supports Hamas is also a terrorist.

Bravo
pose those global warming questions to the National Science Foundation and see if you can comprehend the answers....

Catfish Keith @10:06pm
Come now little mouse, I’m asking you. If you are unable to answer the questions just man up and admit it. If you do not at least try to answer them, I'll be justified to assume that like all members of the global warming cult you are unable to answer the questions. Perhaps you are the real cause of global warming since you are apparently all hot air and no substance.

Good night
Gak, gag hack, ptooie. Sorry hairball.

Well my lady cat just circled on the bed 3 times has curled up and is giving me that look, so I gotta go before she kicks me in my tender vittles.

I’ll be generous and give mouse-man Keith the night to ruminate on the questions. Let's see watch he comes up with in the morning.

Good night all.

Literarily NOT literally!!
THAT is the way we are taught the read the Bible in Catholic schools. The Prophets who recorded the story of Man's relationship with God, aka the Bible, had to teach a bunch of itinerant goat ropers about the origins of the Earth, the species and God's plan for both.

HOW do you tell an illiterate herdsman who can't count more than the number of his goats about the Big Bang? "Let there be light!". THAT would have been a light such as has never been seen since.

The void is space. The firmament is the solid planets being separated from the primordial protomatter of the universe. Then the seas form. Then dry land. Then sea creatures followed by air breathers and flying forms until Man appears.

If you were a Prophet ordered by God to start teaching the people about His Plan and His Law you'd HAVE to use simple references.

I note that nobody here has listed a thousand variants of ANY species over say, a hundred million years, to show a clear progression from fish to amphibian to reptile to bird to mammal.

13Bravo, instead of just reading the Bible talk to a Catholic science teacher, particularly a teaching brother or priest with a science background. "Intelligent Design" didn't start with Ben Stein.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Direct Quotes from The Quran:
The impetus for hate shared by all Islamic terrorists is contained within its pages.
Every American should study the Quran and Hadith. It is only then that the context of what is happening in Israel, as well as around the globe, to increasingly include Europe, will come into focus.


YOU WHO BELIEVE! DO NOT TAKE THE JEWS AND THE CHRISTIANS FOR FRIENDS; THEY ARE FRIENDS OF EACH OTHER; AND WHOEVER AMONGST YOU TAKES THEM FOR A FRIEND, THEN SURELY HE IS ONE OF THEM; SURELY ALLAH DOES NOT GUIDE THE UNJUST PEOPLE. (5:49-51)

When the sacred months have passed away, THEN SLAY THE IDOLATERS WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM, AND TAKE THEM CAPTIVES AND BESIEGE THEM AND LIE IN WAIT FOR THEM IN EVERY AMBUSH, then if they repent and keep up prayer [become believers] and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them (9:5)




CatfishKeith...that is your opinion.
Obviously your theory can not be proven, anymore than the idea of a Creator(God)can be disproven.
Fact is, science is limited in its scope and ability to discern in conjunction with the limited intelligence of man.
Theories are just that. The athiests and agnostics control the field and approach their research with pre-determined conclusions.
Unwiling to accept data that doesn't agree with their beliefs.
Those whom challange the "accepted" theories are blackballed and barred from working again.

It takes more faith to believe that somehow the universe just came into existence from nothing and that life evolved from a primordal soup or organism, evenetually into Apes...then Man.

In fact Modern genetics and micro-biology tend to corroborate the idea of an intellgent designer.

There is NO missing link(several frauds,later exposed, notwithstanding). DNA research shows that a complex genetic code is passed from parent to child. It can not pass on something that it does not contain. Hence, there is no fossil record of any species in transition from one to another(only within kind).

genetic drift occurs when a segment of the population is isolated. There will be mutations or loss of genes which will coincide with environmental conditions. Ergo, the differeent races. The same process is used in breeding of animals to attain specific desired traits.
You will never however get a different animal.

Mutations which occur over long periods of time are proven to be either neutral or detremental, therefore you can never have one species evolve into another.

The Fatal Flaw
"Israel decided enough was enough, that it was time to do everything possible to stamp out these implementers of terror."

Really? Everything possible Mr Gallagher? Bulls--t!

The tribe of Israel is surrounded by other tribes that hate it. Sad -- but true. The world knows Israel simply does not exist without the U.S. -- and the world also knows that Israel has no intent on "doing everything possible" to stop Hamas -- because the only way to stop the hatred would be to eliminate Palestinian presence in Gaza entirely.

Israel will not do this because they know the U.S. would never allow it -- so what IS the true purpose of these attacks? What are they really going to accomplish?

I know. 900 dead Palestinian parents and children who's surviving families for generations to come will never forget the pointed spears of the Star of David killed their relatives. It is tribal blood feud to the death -- and for eternity.

Pope Benedict XVI on Intelligent ....
http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/213210?eng=y

Keith? Are you there mousie?
Hey, my little mousie didn’t come back?!? Come on Mousefish Keith give me a straight answer. Is it that you don’t like me calling you mouse? Well come on, squeak up.

OK gang, I’ll check back on the thread periodically for the next day or two and see what, if anything, the boy comes up with.

Mousefish ran out of cheese
or "advanced to the rear" like a typical lib.


-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Wrat Wrangler & Truth seekers everywhere
I tell you what, I suggest that wherever the boy (or any man-made global warming cultists)does show up on other threads, we all hit him/them with those questions he is avoiding. From now to the end of time (or he gives a plausible answer), when he rears his Mickey Mouse self we put the questions to him.

For those of you who do not know what questions I am referencing here they are:

1. What is the Earth’s normal temperature?
2. Who decided what the planetary temperature should be set at?
3. If it is decided that we actually have overcorrected and the Earth comes to be in a global cooling cycle. Do we then begin to release excess “greenhouse gases” to warm the Earth up again?

These questions were put to Keith @7:42pm 1/10/09. His response was posted @10:06pm 1/10/09, to wit:

“pose those global warming questions to the National Science Foundation and see if you can comprehend the answers....”

Can you say cop out?!?

P.S. I should mention that these are not my questions. They are variations of ones posed by Mr. Pat Sajak.


Inconvenient concepts abound!
13 Bravo;

I have often advised AGW clowns to Google certain terms and get back. They either tell me to stuff it or never answer.

Those terms are: The Medieval Warming and the Maunder Minimum as well as the Little Ice Age. The National Geographic Channel has a nice DVD on the Little Ice Age but it falls on its face at the very end by embracing the Algore School of Chicken Little Science.

I guess it's a knee-jerk reaction to reality typical of lib-trolls.

Did you know that the Little Ice Age gave us Stradivarius Violins or that in the Medieval Warming period they grew GRAPES in England and made their own wine? The Vikings only became the seafarers they were because there was a warming trend for several centuries that ended about 1400. The seas were almost ice-free then.

Hmmm. Grapes in England, ice-free North Atlantic and massive shifts in global average temperatures CENTURIES before SUVs! Who'd have thunk it?

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

UNCIVIL DEFENSE
Jack wrote: "But rarely is there an explanation that in 10,000 [Hamas] rocket launches, there were virtualy no deaths. These are the acts of lunatics and buffoons, not an existential threat."

Casualties from the Hamas rocket fire have remained low because the Israelis have been copping these kinds of attacks since 1948.

They have a sophisticated civil defense system in place and every house and kibbutz has a cellar bunker system that can be readily accessed at short notice.

Even so, it must be awfully stressful and disruptive to life to live within rocket range of the Gaza Strip and at any time of the day or night when you are eating, sleeping, taking a dump, tilling your fields, working, getting the leg over, mixing a bottle for the baby etc to receive a 90 second warning to race into a bunker.

The bottom line is in 2, 000 years there has never been a state called "Palestine" with a capital of Jerusalem. The so-called "Palestinians" are just Arabs like those who live in the surrounding states, all of which were created after WWI from the British and French Mandates that came out of the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in 1918.

The Gaza Arabs could go live in any Arab country, but their leaders have kept them in those squalid refugee camps for upwards of 60 years as a political weapon against Israel.


The problem Lon is that
Egypt has allowed tens thousands of tons of weapons across its border. If instead of weapons they had allowed food and medical supplies there would be no problems in Gaza.

The reason that they allow weapons and war matteral through and not food and medical supplies is that Egypt wants and needs fighting between Isreal and Gaza to keep its own political power save.

Freddie
You say that there has never been a state called Palestine for 2000...but does that work both ways?

Was there a state called Israel in the 1950 years before Israel was created by dolts in 1948?

Israel Has Had Enough
Israel has held back using its military force too many times, and what has it gotten them? Nothing but more hatred.

I always hear our politicians saying that they've urged Israel to hold back. I've never heard them say they urged a terrorist group to hold back. That's good because nobody would believe they were able to get in touch with terrorists anyway.

Wasn't it Iraq that kept denying access to their country's nuclear facilities to U.N. inspectors? I think other countries have done that, too, like Syria and North Korea.

There sits Israel, surrounded by so much hatred. They have the right to protect their country and its people.
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