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Sunday, July 12, 2009
Debra J. Saunders :: Townhall.com Columnist
It's Getting Cold Out There
by Debra J. Saunders
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No wonder skeptics consider the left's belief in man-made global warming as akin to a fad religion -- last week in Italy, G8 leaders pledged to not allow the Earth's temperature to rise more than 3.6 degrees Fahrenheit.

For its next act, the G8 can part the Red Sea. The worst part is: These are the brainy swells who think of themselves as -- all bow -- Men of Science.

The funny part is: G8 leaders can't even decide the year from which emissions must be reduced. 1990? 2005? "This question is a mystery for everyone," an aide to Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said.

And while President Obama led the charge for the G8 nations to agree to an 80 percent reduction in greenhouse gas emissions in industrial nations by 2050, the same Russian aide dissed the standard as "likely unattainable."

No worries, the language was non-binding. Global-warming believers say that they are all about science, but their emphasis is not on results so much as declarations of belief.

Faith. Mystery. Promises to engage in pious acts. Global warming is a religion. While Obama was in Italy preaching big cuts in U.S. greenhouse gas emissions, he was losing some of his flock in Washington. The House may have passed the 1,200-page cap-and-trade bill largely unread, but Senate Democrats are combing the fine print and not liking what they see. As Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Mo., said of the bill, "We need to be a leader in the world but we don't want to be a sucker."

Republicans who oppose the legislation are positively gleeful. For some issues, it can be more fun being part of the opposition, as Democrats are discovering.

During the last administration, Senate Dems could slam President George W. Bush for not supporting the 1997 Kyoto global-warming treaty, secure in the knowledge that they would never have to vote yea or nay on a treaty that they knew could be poison for the coal industry and family checkbooks.

That's why the Senate in 1997 voted 95-0 against any global-warming treaty that exempted developing nations like China. Now China wants none of the G8's goal for it to halve its greenhouse gases -- and the Dems are stuck with a leader who wants to save the planet.

When the GOP was in the White House, Democrats got to play scientific martyrs. James Hansen, director of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies, would go running to the New York Times or Washington Post with the lament that the Bushies were trying to muzzle his pro-global-warming science. No matter how many times he appeared on TV, the stories kept reporting on allegations that Bush was censoring science.

Now GOP senators have their own Hansen: Alan Carlin of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. Be it noted, Carlin is not a scientist. He's an MIT-trained economist, albeit with a degree in physics from the California Institute of Technology, who has worked as an analyst at the EPA since 1974. In March, he co-wrote a 98-page paper that began, "We have become increasingly concerned that EPA and many other agencies and countries have paid too little attention to the science of global warming." He fears politics are steering what should be scientific research.

The analysis noted that global temperatures have declined over the last 11 years while carbon emissions have increased. It cited a 2009 paper that found "solar variability" may have had more to do with any warming over the last few decades than rising greenhouse gas levels. Carlin also wondered why the EPA bought into global-warming doom scenarios, when, despite increased greenhouse gas levels, U.S. crop yields are up, air quality is improved and Americans are living longer.

Did the EPA welcome a dissenting voice? Au contraire. According to e-mails released last month by Sam Kazman, general counsel for the Competitive Enterprise Institute, a free-market think tank, Carlin's supervisor told him not to "have any direct communication" with anyone in-house or elsewhere on the issue. And: "I don't want you to spend any additional EPA time on climate change."

Only later, Carlin told me, did the EPA grant him permission to post the paper on his personal website and talk to the media.

Kazman argues that the EPA's failure to post Carlin's paper officially violates court rulings that require agencies to disclose discarded evidence when making rules. And: "The bigger irony is that this administration has been touting its commitment to scientific integrity and agency transparency."

Now, you can argue that the Obama administration simply wanted to present a clear message on a policy on which it already had settled. But why is it muzzling science when Bush did it, but not worthy of a New York Times story when Obama does it?

Don't say that Obama has science on his side. As the Carlin paper noted, "We do not believe that science is writing a description of the world or the opinions of world authorities on a particular subject ... The question in our view is not what someone believes, but how what he or she believes corresponds with real world data."

The global-warming community's reaction to real-world data -- and the lack of warming in this century -- has been to remain true believers. Except now they call it "climate change."

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I hope this article is read
by multitudes. As one who has studied a lot of biological science, though it's not my teaching field, I have been astonished and appalled at the ecological ignorance of most people. Explain that plants need carbon dioxide and a lot of them will call you a liar. Explain that water vapor is the main greenhouse gas, and they say, "So what?" Further explanations, even those based on the simplest grade school science, seem futile.

In the following double limerick the LIE is the Liberal Intellectual Establishment and CACA is Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alteration. The LIE's current religion is CACA.

The LIE spreads the CACA all day
And tries to make all of us pay
To consume it instead
Of the good things like bread
For which we're directed to pray.

But praying is one thing that seems
Unlikely to enter their schemes
Of putting a price
On their every device
Designed to kill all of our dreams.

Not a religion,
A cult.
An Earth Mother/Goddess death cult, to be precise.

Debra Saunders
Her column and the Sporting Green are the only two reasons to ever read the San Francisco Chronicle. Even the entertainment section is politically biased!

Ms. Saunders

The envionuts are going to go batty. I have called global warnming, climate change, global cooling or whatever, GORELIGION for the longest time.

The believers don't like to have their cultish love of Gaia compared to anything close to a religion. It is not a religion, they say, but they do excommunicate anyone, who changes his or her mind about AGW in the slightest bit.

Prince Charles, who talks to his plants, claims that the Earth will end in July of 2017 unless the Earth is cooled right now. Mark Steyn suggests that you might not want to wait to before starting to reading a really long book. If you begin it now, you will find out how it ends before Prince (or King?)Charles' "scientific" clock runs out of time.

Gore claims that climate change presents a greater risk than did Hitler's Germany.

And, now, the G8 fools think that they can control the temperature of the Earth.

Does anyone know what the proper temperature of the Earth should be?

Hopefully, it is not 98.6 degrees.

What Obama Said.

Obama said. "The Debate on Global Warming is over."

My objection is the American people were never invited to the debate.

This is sooo Liberal.

Foreclosing debate on any issue
--
...is a tactic employed only by those who know they've lost the debate.

Scientific method doesn't work by counting noses. One man with a better picture of how the real world works automatically "out-votes" millions of dorks wedded to error.

This is one of the reasons why you can pick the kids who are most likely to become real scientists.

They're the ones marked out as "Doesn't work and play well with others."


lock up "SENATOR" Boxer - Al Gore

Lunatic Senator Boxer and depraved Al Gore
need to be locked up in a mental institution:

She must be drinking too much or on serious drugs or in need of a brain transplant:

GOOD GRIEF, talk about hysterical she is screeching that the world is going to end tomorrow if they do not PASS THIS TAX and double your energy costs plan to support the Boxer - Al Gore - Obama climate change hoax!

EXPLAIN why WE ARE IN A 10 year GLOBAL FREEZING trend:


JUST shut up and Drill: until !

STOP this obscene HOAX !

show up at your senator's town hall meetings,
home offices with petitions in hand !:

CAP N double your energy costs and thereby causing your food costs to double is the biggest HOAX in HISTORY !

FAX < EMAIL < write, call daily !

DO NOT LET THESE CORRUPT CRIMINALS get away with fleecing the middle class to advance their contrived CLIMATE WHATEVER HOAX !

SHUT UP AND DRILL: that creates jobs and will keep us warm this winter:

Democrats FORM LETTER !

IT appears that the democrats in congress who voted for the CAP n TAX BILL sent out an almost IDENTICAL "FORM" letters filled with lies about what was in the Cap N Double your energy Costs and food costs legislation to the citizens who sent emails, faxes and made phone calls asking them to vote against it!

These letters need to be PUBLISHED !

THE FORM letters are FILLED with LIES PELOSI crafted TALKING POINTS that represent certain provisions to be in the bill, that are NOT IN THE BILL! The form letters are lies about the bill that they of course never read!

LIKE OFF SHORE "DRILLING" provisions, etc.

VERY VERY CLEVER !

THE "FORM LETTER"

Dear

Thank you for contacting me regarding HR 2454, the American Clean Energy and Security (ACES) Act. I appreciate your thoughts and concerns regarding this legislation.

I happen to believe that our earth is getting dangerously warmer as a result of human activities. Even if one disputes this point, we can all agree that decreasing our dependence on foreign oil is critical to America's long-term energy security. As a farmer and a steward of the earth, I also believe that we should strive to leave our planet better off for the next generation. I voted for the American Clean Energy and Security Act because it is a good starting point for achieving energy security and protecting our planet.

...
Regarding the first question, I believe ACES offers us a good plan to transition away from foreign sources of energy while decreasing our carbon emissions. This is in part because the legislation recognizes the diversity of our country and the various types of energy we depend on. While the bill establishes nationwide renewable energy standards,

...
it also envisions some increases in oil drilling off the Gulf Coast, further research in clean coal technologies for coal states, and more investments in modern nuclear energy for eastern states.
....

Anyone ??

WHERE IN THE BILL DOES IT MAKE PROVISIONS for these statements ???????


HELP HELP HELP us find this !


Know nothing
Speaking of scientists and global warming, Al Gore is not a scientists and never has been. He got his knowledge out of an enviromental primer.
Al Gore is nothing but a silver tongued politician with a good line of b.s.

Global Thermostat?
The climate has been cooling - so they're not going to let the temp rise from ??? which number? I haven't yet been able to get an answer as to whether the temp was rising from the average top number or the average bottom number. If from the average bottom number, it's hardly warming. For those who may be interested, here's a link to an article that easily proves my point that averages are meaningless:

http://www2.ljworld.com/weblogs/science-becoming-religion/2 008/mar/30/average-global-temperature-is-impossible/

"If, for example, it is 10 degrees at one point and 40 degrees at another, the average is 25 degrees. But if instead there is 25 degrees both places, the average is still 25 degrees. These two cases would give rise to two entirely different types of climate, because in the former case one would have pressure differences and strong winds, while in the latter there would be no wind.A further problem with the extensive use of 'the global temperature'"

or check out the book: "Places Rated Almanac" By David Savageau in which he points out that both St. Louis and San Francisco both have an average temp of 57 degrees, but San Francisco's climate is relatively stable, but St. Louis' is not.

http://books.google.com/books?id=S7yfFD7xMvoC&pg=PA499&lpg= PA499&dq=%22the+average+temperature+of+san+francisco+and+st +louis%22&source=bl&ots=uWzb-LD2KY&sig=M_DTa6tWZIzEKhX5heJm h84C1ZE&hl=en&ei=96xZSpHXGJGsMKergEM&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct =result&resnum=6

It's time to stop with the "average global temperature" nonsense. The weather doesn't operate according to the average. It functions according to the differences in actual temps. Man has precious little to do with it.

Know nothing
"Al Gore is nothing but a silver tongued politician with a good line of b.s"

I beg to differ on one point - Al Gore is a forked-tongued politician - but you're right about the line of bs:)

Liberals Censor Science
Anti-science movements are alive and well amongst the liberals as well.

I wrote about this at my blog (do not read if you are a religious creationist):

http://onestdv.blogspot.com/2009/07/liberals-who-deny-evolu tion.html

They also want to start regulating ancestry testing. Basically, they want to take hold of anything that has to do with race (what a surprise, right?).

http://onestdv.blogspot.com/2009/07/government-controlling- banks-cars-and.html

Good Article, Great Title
"It's Getting Cold Out There" Totally appropriate!

Thanks!

Tom

Don't overlook the date selected
There is another danger here. The base-line date is important. For example if the date that the global temperature was at its zenith, then any decline from that point will "prove" that the steps being taken to curb global warming has worked. Even if the temperature declines by a degree or so, the zealots will claim victory and press for more global warming curbs.


isn't it wonderful...
that we have the G-8 looking out for the world's future? Perhaps, just perhaps, they could regulate hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquates and the distribution of water...why stop at temperature control? They are so wonderful..just wonderful people doing their job. I wonder what God thinks of all this...is He listening? I sure hope that they have included Him in their discussion and decisions. Don't we just love those G-8 people with their "hope and change"...their great intentions; one has to be awe-struck...huh?? Keep it up boys!!

An important point
"G8 leaders can't even decide the year from which emissions must be reduced. 1990? 2005?"

When did we last enjoy the ideal global temperature? In 1900, well after the Industrial Revolution had begun to work its supposed mischief? In 1700, during the Little Ice Age? In 900, during the Medieval Warm Period, when modern industry was nonexistent and England was a wine-exporting country? Do we want longer growing seasons or more arable land? Do we want more polar bears or healthier rainforests? If we are in control of the planetary thermostat, where shall we set it,? Who will make that decision? Al Gore? Hu Jintao? The UN?


Still waiting for summer...
here in New England (following the miserable winter & non-existent Spring that we had). I'd like to ship all the Global Warming cultists up here for a spell.

Of course, they'd tell us that our temps in the 50s in July was the result of...Global Warming

Cap and trade
Democrat politicians repeatedly point out that the CBO says Cap & Trade will only cost $0.41 a day.

This estimate from the CBO assumes that the higher prices everyone will pay that go to the government do not count because you will be receiving a rebate or a service.

This is like saying my income taxes don't really count because I get a tax return or government services.

The democrats spouting this should at least be honest about the assumptions. You will be paying $1800 to $3000 a year for this nonsense and the government may or may not give some of it back.

I wish. I wish. I wish.
"G8 leaders pledged to not allow the Earth's temperature to rise more than 3.6 degrees Fahrenheit."

"A goal without a plan is just a wish.", Antoine de St. Exupery

Camelot
KING ARTHUR:

It's true! It's true! The crown has made it clear.
The climate must be perfect all the year.

A law was made a distant moon ago here:
July and August cannot be too hot.
And there's a legal limit to the snow here
In Camelot.
The winter is forbidden till December
And exits March the second on the dot.
By order, summer lingers through September
In Camelot.
Camelot! Camelot!
I know it sounds a bit bizarre,
But in Camelot, Camelot
That's how conditions are.
The rain may never fall till after sundown.
By eight, the morning fog must disappear.
In short, there's simply not
A more congenial spot
For happily-ever-aftering than here
In Camelot.

Camelot! Camelot!
I know it gives a person pause,
But in Camelot, Camelot
Those are the legal laws.
The snow may never slush upon the hillside.
By nine p.m. the moonlight must appear.
In short, there's simply not
A more congenial spot
For happily-ever-aftering than here
In Camelot.

China and India Refuse Carbon Caps
Sell your fur coat.

Buy a cave in the mountains.

WE"RE ALL GONNA DIE!

SCIENCE OF THE OCCULT

.....Just the idea that man can control the climate and world temperature is so bizarre that I cannot believe that "rational" men are considering it ...

.....OBAMA has become the tribal Witch Doctor of Quackery ...

.....I never thought I would live to see the day when I would agree with a RUSSIAN autocrat over an American President ...I guess if you live long enough anything is possible .....COLOSSUS

A fundamental error
of the Gaia worshippers is their belief that there is a "proper" temperature for the whole earth. Earth's temperature, along with all other climatic factors, is always changing. This has been true since the earth was formed out of the steller dust cloud. It will remain true until Sol goes nova in about five billion years.

Then we'll see true global warming!

At least they're consistent
The goal of the current group in Washington is wealth redistribution. They believe they have a mandate to SPOM (Spend Other People's Money). Just keep that in mind when you read anything about their initiatives.

Designer Label Laziness
In the US we fall for the old scam that if it has a designer label, it must be better made, more stylish, more attractive and all around superior.

The whole global warming scam is about the same way. The accepted theory depends on who is pushing it, not whether or not it is true. We don't let facts get in the way of theory, just as Izod must be better than LLBean.

For the incoming trolls:
Do some Google searching. Look up Maunder Minimum, Medieval Warming and Little Ice Age. AFTER and ONLY after you've read, absorbed and UNDERSTOOD all that material will you have even the most elemental basis for an argument or opinion. One not based on the current Goreligion.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!!

Holding Back the Sea
The G8 leaders make me think of King Canute trying to command the sea to stay back--and doing nothing but getting his feet and those of his court wet. However, Canute was trying to teach a pack of servile flatterers a lesson; while these G8 leaders apparently think they can change climate by fiat.

hail to the chief
Nothing but a bunch of crap. Now it is climate change, not global warming. A good P.R. move so that the same stupid nonsense sells better. The rest of the world is not interested. China and India has said no deal, we will continue to use fossil fuel so that our economy continues to grow. America is looking to save the planet. I have news for those interested, it aint going to happen. As Obama stated, We should not be meddling. Nuff said.

And...
China,India and Russia also said that they want a different world currency,to think these are our allies.

India seems to have higher ambitions then China or Russia.

While Russia is easily predictable.

China is just Lost.

Climate BS
The sky is falling, said Chicken Little.
There's looming catastrophe.
The glaciers will melt, the oceans will rise.
It's doomsday for you and me.
The politicos use sketchy science.
Their goal is total control.
Cap and Trade is a smokescreen.
As they clamor to govern our souls.
One man is at the forefront,
The environmental lord.
He's making millions, refuses debate.
Me thinks the World's getting Gored!

Wrat Wrangler
"For the incoming trolls: Do some Google searching. Look up Maunder Minimum, Medieval Warming and Little Ice Age."

Gee, you ARE an optimist.

"AFTER and ONLY after you've read, absorbed and UNDERSTOOD all that material will you have even the most elemental basis for an argument or opinion."

But there's no time for developing informed opinions, and any argument against the scientific consensus [_sic_] is by definition antiscientific. Whether the climate is warming, cooling, or exhibiting random variation is irrelevant. Whether our program to save the planet turns out ineffectual or even destructive is not a concern. We've wasted enough time already. Fall in or be trampled.

P.T. Barnum...
... if he were alive, would be smiling at his own wisdom about "suckers".

As several other posters have pointed out, there appears to be silence from so-called "experts" on the question of what the "ideal" global temperature should be, and, more importantly, who decided and how.

Mankind has accomplished many things, but the arrogance of these "experts" is astounding.

There is absolutely NO scientific agreement that AGW is a "fact" - or even that AGW is a viable "theory".

Real science DOES NOT recognize "consensus" as a proven result - only as a proposed hypothesis.

Nobody yet has made a convincing argument that mankind could so damage a planet in a cosmic micro-second that nature herself could not cope with it.

AGW is nothing more than a power grab and another creative way to extract money from our pockets for the enrichment of our "betters".

New Theme Song
"Baby It's Cold Outside"

Cap-n-TRADE - I
Fat Al Bore invested $2mn into "green energy" and he is now worth $100mn. Further, he is fast on his way to being the first "Green" billionaire.

The Pelosi family owns STOCK in a "green energy" company.

Obama has admitted that Cap-n-Tax will not decrease emissions.

Paul Krugman stated that there will be no net increase in American jobs.

Microsoft, among other corporations, has said that it will move overseas to avoid Obamanism.

General Electric and Goldman-Sachs, both recipients of TARP funds, have already established "green energy" arms to TRADE carbon credits. You missed that part of Cap-n-TRADE, didn't you?

I can go on, but suffice it to say:

Ladies and Gentlemen, when the baseball players bet on the game, you get a bunch of Pete Roses.


Cap-n-TRADE - II
Guess which company first supported Cap-n-TRADE?

Any takers? It was ENRON.

You thought that credit default swaps were a catastrophe. Just wait until you get a load of the "exotic financial instrument" known as a carbon credit.

Iran has the world's 5th largest oil and natural gas reserves; yet, it imports gasoline because of a lack of refineries.

The United States has ~2,000 TRILLION cubic feet of natural gas, which has yet to be tapped. It is #1 in the world, as far as natural gas reserves, but is the #1 importer of natural gas.

France gets more than 75% of its energy from nuclear plants. It has an innovative method of recycling nuclear waste, which it reuses in nuclear facilities.

Jimmy Carter put into place a ban on nuclear waste recycling.

Italy will be exporting its nuclear waste to Oak Ridge, TN.

The Chinese are drilling 50 miles off of Florida.

There are ~800,000 barrels of oil that naturally seep onto California beaches.

The best fishing is, and has always been, around an offshore oil/gas platform.

So, environuts, chew on that.

1% = Almost Stone Age

Wind and solar account for 1% of energy nationwide.


When the Kennedys say YIOBY and allow windmills off of "The Compound", then I will put a solar panel on my house in the French Quarter.

It is always NIMBY, but Texas and Louisiana, "we just love your oil and gas."

Did you know that 75% of our natural gas flows through a pipeline to the Northeast?


At the risk of double-posting
"the same Russian aide dissed the standard as "likely unattainable'"

(hardly a surprise that he'd say that. How much of Russia's GDP comes from oil and natural gas?)

I don't know about the 80% reduction, but Waxman-Markey's short- and mid-term goals are quite attainable:

http://www.finepolitics.com/paul-coulter-driessen/

Wrat Wrangler
"Look up Maunder Minimum, Medieval Warming and Little Ice Age."

I have. So? If you're trying to say that it happened naturally then so it's happening naturally now, that makes about as much sense as saying that no one died from guns before 1300, therefore no one can die from gun violence now.

I'm perfectly happy to consider the possibility that the warming is from a natural cause. So, what's the natural cause?

Uh Frey
I think that the cause is variations in radiation from that big, bright, round thingy up in the sky. I believe they call it the Sun.

Javapoppa
OK, show me the chart that shows the solar variations of the last thirty years or so and how they correspond to temperature changes over the same period. The sun can't be causing the change if it's not changing.

Having said that, solar change is probably contributing to current cooling (La Nina accounts for the rest), but for about twenty years prior, it was stable while the terrestrial temperature was increasing. Obviously something else is going on.

Frey: Do your own research
Here's a small sample of what's out there:

Forecasts of a sharp cooling trend are backed by the UK’s Armagh Observatory, which has been observing solar activity for over 200 years.

The observatory notes that solar cycles 21 and 22, which were characterized by being short and intense in their activity, led to the natural global warming observed in the 80’s and 90’s.

“Cycle 23, which hasn’t finished yet, looks like it will be long (at least 12 to 13 years) and cycle 24, which has still to start, looks like it will be exceptionally weak,” writes one observatory scientist.

“Based on the past Armagh measurements, this suggests that over the next two decades, global temperatures may fall by about 2 degrees C — that is, to a level lower than any we have seen in the last 100 years….“Temperatures have already fallen by about 0.5 degrees C over the past 12 months and, if this is only the start of it, it would be a serious concern,” concludes David Watt.

javapoppa
I found a 2007 paper by Armagh researcher Emma Reilly, but it doesn't really support your premise. According to her figures, solar activity has been decreasing since 1990. Meanwhile, the Earth definitely warmed between 1990 and 2000, and probably between 2000 and 2005 (NASA rates 2005 the warmest year on record worldwide). Did the Earth just not notice that the sun was cooling down? Like I said, something else is going on.

Charts
Frey,

Show me a chart that has changes in CO2 plotted against temperature.

You can do one at woodfortrees.org. Go to interactive graphs and plot their temperature index (or use the UAH series or even GISS) and add the series ESRL CO2 (you have to normalize to 10 the CO2 to get it to fit.)

CO2 goes up steadily from 1980 up to 2009. Temps are flat from about 1980 to 1995 and then again from 2001 to 2009. There is a similar period from 1940 to 1970. If temperature increase is dependent on CO2, why is temperature flat during these periods?


Useful Idiots
I'm with you! I don't remember ever being invited to the global warming debate, or the discussion or vote on whether the POTUS should take over the car companies, or the health care debate. No debate, no vote...just cramm it all down our throats by noon tomorrow! Anything else they can make us eat until we drop?

And speaking of being "green," has anyone done any research on these squiggly bulbs that are full of mercury and ultraviolet rays, that the Gov wants us all to use because they save energy? Those bulbs are crap! A friend of mine emailed me a story about all kinds of health issues people are experiencing because they have replaced all their incandescent lights in their homes with these squirrelly bulbs. I read the article and immediately changed ALL the ones I had in my place back to the incandescents. More junk from the Gov. I might have been skeptical had I not seen my friend's partner with a strange skin rash he needed to get medication for. We couldn't figure out where this strange (really strange) rash came from. Well, skin rashes are on the list of health problems because of these bulbs. Here's the link if anyone wants to check it out.

http://www.renewableenergygeek.ca/energy-efficiency/energy- saving-light-bulbs-dangerous-to-health-and-environment-part -1/

And mind you, to get rid of these bulbs I have to call my town and ask about destroying hazardous material...as if I were destroying some sort of bomb or something. yegads!!!!

Excellent article, Debra
On the subject of climate change, the lies of the left are legion. This is the 'big lie' of the type the Nazis learned to push in their ascension to power. All it takes is constant repetition by very partisan predators and power mongers, amplified by an allied media propaganda apparatus that drowns out dissenting voices and facts.

The world's climate has changes over the eons. The earth actually wobbles on it's axis. The north pole was at one time in Greenland. Glaciers and ice covered the state of New York relatively recently in geologic terms (tens of thousands of years ago). The sun spot cycles are well known as to the radiation that reaches the earth.

AND NONE OF IT IS CAUSED BY MAN, NOR CAN ANY OF IT BE ALTERED BY MAN.

Gore and the other high priests of AGW are just like the powerful Catholic clergy of the middle ages selling their flim flam scheme they same way they sold forgiveness through indulgences.

By proportion, the relatively minor amount of CO2 in the atmosphere affects nothing nor is a pollutant. In fact, it is a necessary gas for ALL life itself since it is REQUIRED for plants to grow. How idiotically ironic: they keep yapping about greening everything and yet they would vilify the very fuel of the process.

The other great industrializers (China, India) are not having anything to do with this scam - they will not handicap their economic growth and standard of living which, apart from feeding on it like parasites, is exactly the purpose the leftist fascists want to foist upon this nation's economy.

Businesses and employment will be wiped out wholesale by this economic brigandage.

Let those senators know: JUST SAY NO TO TAX AND WRECK.

Evelyn
You are correct. Those damned FedBulbs are highly dangerous. In fact, you are supposed to call a HAZMAT team, if you break one.

If the FedBulb runs for the full 10,000 hours before buring out, which is unlikely, your savings would only be $30.

$5,000 for the HAZMAT team or old bulbs, keep the change.

Mark
(Man, the TH servers really suck today. This is the third time I've tried to post this.)

That's a good argument against anyone who claims that CO2 is the only, or the always dominant, influence on temperature. No one claims that.

climate change
HARI KHRISHNA.....

Frey
Thank you for your response. I take your point. But, I think the lack of correlation is also a good enough argument against the hypothesis that CO2 is a primary driver. There are other factors and if we don't know what they are, maybe we should try to find out. So if CO2 is not the driver what is and how does CO2 enter into the equation? Since there is no apparent obvious increase in temp from increasing CO2, how do we know stabilizing CO2 will stabilize the temperature.

And you can reverse it. You asked for a plot of sunspot activity against temperature. Now maybe sunspot activity is not the dominant driver, but....

Regards

Damned AGW Skeptics - I
"Why don’t they just shut up!
The science is settled! We have consensus."

Well, except for those 32,000 American scientists who have signed a petition saying they don’t agree that anthropogenic, or man-made, global warming is threatening society as we know it.

And now we have another one – another skeptical scientist who attempts to enlighten the cult of AGW as to how the science actually works. I’ll let him lay it out:

So why the fuss lately about man-made global warming? The melting Arctic? Do you know we’ve only been monitoring the extent of Arctic ice via satellites since 1979? And while Arctic ice coverage has declined, it’s actually been rising since 2006. And have you heard Antarctic sea ice has increased by nearly 14% since 1979?

The global warming crowd is quick to blame the release of carbon dioxide thru the burning of fossil fuels, such as oil, gasoline, natural gas, and coal, for warming our climate and setting us on a path for doom.

Since before the industrial revolution the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has been rising, up to around 385 parts per million by volume today. That amounts to a miniscule 0.0385% of the atmosphere. Increased CO2 levels are beneficial to plants since they require carbon dioxide to grow. In this experiment, plants exposed to CO2 levels of 1,090 parts per million by volume by far exhibited the most growth.

(cont.)


Damned AGW Skeptics - II
So, does carbon dioxide drive the climate? The answer is no!

Natural cycles play a much bigger role with the sun at the top of the list. A look at total solar irradiance since 1600 shows a distinct correlation to temperature readings. Readings are higher now than anytime in the past 400 years!

Then there’s El Nino Southern Oscillation, the North Atlantic Oscillation, the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, the Atlantic Multi-Decadal Oscillation, the Arctic Oscillation, the Pacific-North American Teleconnection, Milankovitch forcing, ocean variations, and so on and so forth.

Is there any way to model all these variables? Again, the answer is no! The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, or IPCC, has tried and failed!

Back in 2001 the IPCC released a suite of computer model solutions depicting the future state of the atmosphere. These reports by the IPCC are used repeatedly to drive policy around the world. But, if you look at what’s happened since then, global temperatures are actually on a downward trend, whether you look at actual thermometer readings across the world or satellite-derived temperatures. This when the IPCC models were predicting continued warming.

http://www.qando.net/?p=3517

AGW Emphasis Obscures Real Issues
The sad thing is that global warming hysteria sucks all of the oxygen from the room. It may increase the skepticism of the public to many serious environmental issues like depletion and contamination of groundwater, rising atmospheric mercury levels, overfishing, soil erosion, pesticide, fertilizer run-off, deforestation, etc.

These real problems don't have high profile champions like ALGORE et al. to encourage conservation and responsible stewardship of resources.

Correlation & Simulation
I teach my students one of the basic concepts of statistics: Correlation is not causation. Another concept that students of science should embrace: Simulation is not reality.

The CO2/Global Warming crowd, with a straight, condescending, face touts the correlation IS causation mantra even when the correlation reverses!

So much for holding Science sacred.

Mark_0454
Here is the relationship between CO2 and the earth's temperature, When the temperature rises, the CO2 levels rise about 800 years later. AlGore's graph doesn't show that because he uses a very long time scale (600,000 years). It takes the oceans about 800 years to respond to changes in earth's temperature. The oceans are a huge CO2 sink. When the water warms, the gasses come out of solution, like a glass of cold water on a warm windowsill collects gas bubbles inside the glass. The same thing happens on a much larger scale in the oceans.

The sun has a far greater effect on climate than any trace gas, such as CO2. Current theory postulates that with more sun spots, the solar wind inhibits galactic cosmic rays from impacting the lower atmosphere, resulting in fewer clouds, hence more solar warming. With the sun in a very quiet period, one would expect to see a cooling climate, which is what we're seeing.

There's a paper on this effect by U.S.G.S. scientist Charles A. Perry at:
http://www.greatglobalwarmingswindle.co.uk/pdf/Gamma Rays and Climate - Perry, Charles.pdf. Take a look, if you dare!

Thanks guys but
You're confusing the faithful with facts and science.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Real Global Warming
Man made global warming is a hoax. Science shows that it is solar activity that is responsible for rising temperatures, which makes more sense than all these theories from the liberal environmentalists and Obama--who want Americans to cut down on use of energy while he flies around the world with his family in tow--including his mother-in-law, on taxpayer dollars.
In this age of technology why does anyone have to fly anywhere? They can hold a meeting in their office via computer! Now that would save a lot of money for taxpayers.

As I observe the weather in the region I live, I have noticed that we have not had continuously hot days as we normally have. The swimming pool isn't used as much because the water gets too cold several days out of the month. Global warming? I think not!

What arrogance for the G8 to think they can control the temperature on earth! I guess Obama really does believe he is God.
He is an evil man and he will reap his just rewards at the last day. He will experience global warming on a level that will be really above his pay grade."But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up."2 Peter 3:10
That is REAL global warming!

St. Denis-LA
U say "Prince Charles-He talks to his plants"..
Something wrong with that?? I do that all the time (especially those *cute little ones*) CHEERS

Roy

Yes, he talks to his plants and claims that the world will end in 96 months, which must mean that the current Pope will die before then. According to the Prophecy of St. Malachy, there will be 112 Popes. Pope Benedict is the 111th and the one after him will, supposedly, see the end of the world. Perhaps, Charles has recalculated the Mayan Calendar!!! Cue the "Twilight Zone" music.

Forget about Cloward-Piven and financial collapse, but party like its the end of 2013.

Say, "Bonjour pour moi to the petunias"! :)

Abra Cadabra

The polar bear photo use was a ruse. The Ice Cap is two fee thicker this year. Coldest summer since when? Scientist say warming is
not so. They can't make real predictions. Obama holds back the EPA anti-warming memo.

Which volcano's will blow and fill the air with ash? What earthquake will mess up the continent? There is no way to control nature - we have tried for so long and nature just laughs at us.

Lhat magician can wave a wand and say "no rise in temperature, no decrease?"

The whole thing is stupid.it is a control move by OBAMA to ruin our economy and control us.

Do what we can to get clean coal. Build atomic plants and find some way to dispose safely.

DO NOT USE THE MERCURY LIGHT BULBS. They can kill

Do one thing at a time, slowly to make the earth as good a place as we can. Don't starve and ruin people to save a minnow - a march mouse. Who needs dirty mice? They caused the bubonic plague.


Faith
GE already has a clean coal system developed

Brain Fart
I was thinking the other night - Remember back before catalytic converters on cars? All that stuff coming out of your tailpipe was pollution. Well with the catalytic converter, we "cleaned" up the environment. All that "stuff" was converted to water vapor and CO2! I wonder how many billion tons of CO2 has been spewed from our tailpipes for the last 50 years or so. So I guess we have to hold government partially responsible for contributing to climate change. Wake up, people.

The Science ???


The "Science of Global Warming"...

[ Pardone moi. Snort, chuckle, cough, cough... ]


When the " Weather Predictors " can accurately prdict the weather two days from now, then I will begin to listen to the weather predictors.

And not until then.




ot a scientist?q
How is a person with a degree in physics "not a scientist"? Did he fail to sign up for membership in the "scientists'" union?

Furthermore, the reason organizations like the EPA use economists as data analysts is that economists are trained to analyze data and the honest ones are very good at it. Read Dr. Thomas Sowell and Dr. Walter Williams, for example.

False gods
The one thing they did not settle on was which image they wanted on the golden calf.Barack Obamas's or Al Gore's?

The leftists are hilarious.

They actually think humans can control the earth's weather.

This takes delusional to a whole new level.

Even if people could control the weather
the unintended consequences would soon be catastrophic. Too many variables, as with economic control. Dr. Walter Williams' archive (last March, I think) has an excellent article on the miracle of our economic system. Everyone should read it.

Government efforts at controlling climate make me think of someone trying to perform brain surgery using only a meat ax: stupid, futile, and horribly destructive.

Surely the Current Occupant of the WH is well-intentioned. He couldn't possibly be plotting our economic, political, and cultural demise, could he?

It's Getting Cold Out There
Global Warming believers and those with other leftist causes are neo-pagans (polytheists), who deify -- for examples -- trees, oceans, small critters,etc. This is not science but, truly, religion. When I was growing we learned with puzzlement about previous pagans and wondered how they came to be. We felt confident that monotheism had triumphed, but perhaps the game is still on.


Sooooo unnecessary!
It is great when Republicans speak out against "Cap and trade"---but I want to see them argue not just against the policy, but against the false premise it is based on. There is no proof that "global warming" or "climate change" is caused by man's activities. Rebublicans should make that point and not allow Al Gore's proclamation that "the debate is over" to stand. They've been cowered into silence for too long.

Republicans should speak boldly that liberals are leading America into economic ruin on the basis of a hoax. The truth is NOTHING can be done to stop the cycles of climate change, because they occur naturally. Republicans should make NO concessions that this issue has any relevance.

"Cap and trade" is a needless sacrifice for Americans to make, and the Republicans should not be afraid to frame the issue in that way.



Roy...



Roy
Location: WV
Reply # 60
Date: Jul 13, 2009 - 12:12 AM EST St. Denis-LA
U say "Prince Charles-He talks to his plants"..
Something wrong with that?? I do that all the time (especially those *cute little ones*) CHEERS

~~~

You heathen. Talking to plants.

We are enlightened. We talk to animals and the birds.

O.K. we talk to a few plants.

I pet a few of my favorite trees. We planted over 6000 on 10 acres, so we atoned for our carbon sins before they became sins.

You should hear what my wife says to weeds. Hateful. Just Hateful.

Some of my folks left the area of Virginia, which later became West Virginia with the War Between The States, c. 1861 when Va. seceded.

My folks left that area in the late 1700s.

They also talked to plants, all the way West to Indiana, which was still Indian Territory at the time. So, they married Indians. Go figure.



Liberal religion, part 1
The current devotion of many libs to some form of earth-worship is hardly surprising, since those who, in a religious sense, stand for nothing will fall for anything, including the most primitive forms of paganism.

When devotion to Christian beliefs declines, we should not expect to see any great enthusiasm developing for true atheism. Some form of religion will arise because people need it. I don't know who made the following translation from Pascal, but it certainly strikes a chord:

"What else does this craving, and this helplessness, proclaim but that there was once in man a true happiness, of which all that now remains is the empty print and trace? This he tries in vain to fill with everything around him, seeking in things that are not there the help he cannot find in those that are, though none can help, since this infinite abyss can be filled only with an infinite and immutable object; in other words by God himself." [Pascal, Pensees #425]

Liberal religion, part 2
It can be persuasively argued that the Christian faith, commonly mocked by the MSM and rejected by liberals everywhere, is the most complex, paradoxical, and in the long run intellectually satisfying of all religious systems. When rejected it is commonly replaced by some simpler imitation. Both Islam and Marxism have been described by theologians as Christian heresies, much simplified from their real source. One can get some idea of this (in greatly simplified form) from C.S. Lewis's popular little book Mere Christianity.

But both Islam and Marxism are major faiths, with rich traditions when compared to the earth worship that captivates many modern liberals. The nice thing about earth worship is that its practitioners are not required to do anything beyond paying lip service to issues like ecological awareness (without necessarily becoming ecologists) and climate change (without necessarily becoming climatologists).

One hardly needs to study difficult sciences to be a full-fledged cult follower. And one certainly need not be concerned with how one treats fellow humans, individually or collectively. After all, the earth religion commonly sees humans as parasites on the planet, deserving mainly of extinction--the cult followers' equivalent of hell. An earth worshipper can feel perfectly righteous while engaging in behavior that Christians, Jews, Muslims and even Marxists would condemn as immoral. It is almost the ideal liberal religion.

environmentalism is a religion
Too bad the Lib media and other Lib apparatuses Hollywood, academia) are so deep in their fraudulent scheme, they can't get out. Nor do they realize how stupid they sound and act! We need to save our Country from these urban atheists. From the late author Michael Crichton:


"Today, one of the most powerful religions in the Western World is environmentalism. Environmentalism seems to be the religion of choice for urban atheists.


And so it is, sadly, with environmentalism. Increasingly it seems facts aren't necessary, because the tenets of environmentalism are all about belief". (Crichton-official.com)


It's time for us to get active...and fight back...demand they stop forcing their religious beliefs on us. Read Mr. Crichton's speech in its entirety...copy it...pass it on to everybody you know and tell them to do the same.
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