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Saturday, March 08, 2008
Ken Blackwell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Huckabee the Architect
by Ken Blackwell
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Now that John McCain has secured the Republican Party nomination, he will decide who should be the next chairman of the Republican National Committee. One name he should consider is Governor Mike Huckabee.

Some people are talking up the idea of Mr. Huckabee being Mr. McCain’s running mate. Should that not happen, the RNC chairmanship would be a perfect post for the young, energetic and charismatic governor from Arkansas.

About 30% of the GOP base is evangelical. Part of Mr. McCain’s crossover appeal is that he is not one, nor does he pretend to be. But having one as GOP chairman would energize them all the way to November, which is what Senator McCain needs.

Mr. Huckabee has proven himself a GOP asset. He was elected multiple times as governor in a Democrat-dominated state. Most Arkansas voters are Democrat, both U.S. senators are Democrats, his predecessor and successor were Democrats, and he had a Democrat legislature.

Yet despite that, he kept getting reelected. He even received 40% of the African-American vote, which is an extraordinary for a Republican.

Mr. Huckabee understands how to appeal to Reagan Democrats. As seen during the campaign, he knows how to connect with working families and lower-income voters, people with a small-town, common-sense attitude towards family and country, who usually feel that the GOP does not speak to their concerns.

The Republican Party is often portrayed by its opponents as extremeists and the party of “fat cats” and country club members. Having Mr. Huckabee as chairman, focused for on party-building and outreach for four years would be strategically prudent.

Consider how Governor Howard Dean has been as DNC chair, and compare that with Mr. Huckabee.

One of Mr. Dean’s obvious weaknesses is that he wastes money. Setting aside his profligate spending as DNC chair, recall how he blew through more than $40 million in his presidential campaign, only to lose Iowa. Mr. Huckabee, by contrast, had a shoestring budget for his campaign, and was such a good steward of it that he made it last, and then won Iowa.

Another of Mr. Dean’s weaknesses is that he demonizes the opposition. He characterizes Republicans in harsh terms that impugn their character and deny their patriotism. A perfect example was just this week, when he had the audacity to say that Mr. McCain lacked integrity. He’ll have a difficult time convincing the American people of that. If John McCain is anything, he is a man of honor. By contrast, Mr. Huckabee has always praised what is good about his opposition, and lauded their good intentions.

A third weakness of Mr. Dean is that he has no crossover appeal. He is a stridently- partisan liberal Democrat from a far-left state. Mr. Huckabee is the epitome of a social conservative and evangelical Christian, but has such a long record of framing issues in terms that appeal to the many conservative Democrats.

A fourth weakness of Mr. Dean is his wide-eyed, hard-edged demeanor. Instances like the Dean-scream of 2004 leave one saying, “Try the decaf.” Mr. Huckabee, by contrast, has a laid-back demeanor and good humor that you see in his Chuck Norris commercials, John Stewart interviews, and segments with opposition hosts like Chris Matthews that makes people laugh.

Yet despite all these weaknesses, Mr. Dean is in some regards making a successful DNC chairman. A big part of that success is due to his leadership experience as a governor, his energy and his ability to give a partisan speech.

If Governor Dean can be a fairly effective DNC chairman, then Governor Huckabee could make a very effective RNC chair. Mr. Huckabee has all of Mr. Dean’s strengths, and is also strong where Mr. Dean is not.

A key concern here is that Mr. McCain will need someone who can rally, mobilize and secure both social conservatives and working families. Mr. McCain’s priorities and strengths address the big issues of national security, cutting spending, entitlement reform, and other matters that will win swing voters. That is where the senator needs to be spending his time, and it’s where he’s strongest. A Chairman Huckabee would be able to build the party where Mr. McCain needs the party built, freeing up the nominee to reach the voters he has proven his ability to win.

There will be talk about someone who can raise money. The money-raising apparatus is there. It will work fine, and a strong finance chair at the RNC can guarantee that. The bigger concern from a party standpoint is that the people in the party who have had issues with Mr. McCain are going to need to be reassured and enthused. For that, Mr. McCain needs an established social conservative who has charisma, name recognition, an ability to give a good speech that wows conservatives, while not making any mistakes that turns off moderates.

Governor Huckabee fits that description perfectly. He could be a real asset as RNC chairman.

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About The Author
Mr. Blackwell, a contributing editor at Townhall.com, is a senior fellow at the Family Research Council and American Civil Rights Union.
 
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Huckabee perfect for VP
The attributes you describe for Huckabee would certainly be helpful in getting the votes needed to secure the presidency for the Republicans and, most of all we need to win in November. McCain will prove wise to select Huckabee. His millions of supporters can feel good about falling in line behind McCain with Huckabee on board. Huckabee can "fill in the blanks" in the McCain candidacy. McCain can help Huckabee with the military/foreign affair exp. They genuinely like each other, which certainly helps with the "chemistry" they will have on the campaign trail. There is no-one out there with the name recognition, experience and likeability factor that Hucakbee has. I believe McCain to be a smart man. We'll see if and when he offers the VP slot to Huckabee.....

Might work,
I've been saying we need to reform the R party, both elected and RNC. Huck could be a start with his pushing the Fair Tax .

Lately the difference between the major parties ahs been socialist and socialist lite. If we purge the Republican Party we may be able to offer a real alternative to people who actually pay attention and vote.

Just think, we could actually offer a conservative alternative.

Huckabee bad for Republicans
Huckabee is not a true conservative. He is ONLY a conservative on abortion. That's it.

He doesn't have broad base appeal. He doesn't get the economy - and that is where McCain is weak.

Huckabee only appeals to evangelical Christians and the liberal msm.

The liberal msm likes Huckabee because he's trying to dismantle and abolish the Reagan coalition.

Huckabee is bad for conservatives and bad for America.

Not!!
Huckabee is not bad for America. Why do you think he is not a true conservative. Social conservatism is just as important as fiscal and I see a balance of both. Is he perfect? Of course, not but who is. He is good for America and he relates and cares about middle class America. There is something wholsome in his character and that is not something we are used to seeing in politicians so they don't grasp it. Sorry, but this is something missing in America.

I beg to differ Thomas
Huckabee is actually the only true conservative & he would certainly be an asset on the ticket.

The best thing for the economy would be to replace our 96 year-old experiment with income taxes with the Fair Tax which would be much better in this global ecomomy. I doubt that the Wall Street/Washington privilged will ever allow that to happen though since the 66,000 pages of tax code basically allow the most wealthy in our nation to get by without paying taxes while the middle class pays for everything.

Economically, though, the Fair Tax would reduce the cost of producing goods and services in America and then tax the finished goods/services at consumption. If you think of all white-collar and blue-collar labor that goes into every aspect of getting products and services to market (including R&D, manufacturing, marketing, distribution, sales, admin, etc.) with 8.65% employer-side FICA and Medicare + corp taxes to contend with, it is easy to see 23% tax already priced into the goods/services at the register. Swap that out with the national sales tax + the prebate provision and we unleash our economy. We bring mfg back to the USA and we become more competitive globally. Problem is, that "the establishment" will negatively spin the fair tax because it takes away all of the dials, switches, and controls that allow them to flow power/money/privilege their way.

Huck's fair tax is best for the economy and "We the People". Our 96 year-old income tax is for the elite.

V. P. is best
I have been an avid supporter and volunteer since Sept. I was ready to leave the Republican Party after 30 years and just sit this election out until I discovered Gov. Huckabee. If we do not keep our social/moral base, then this party will be obsolete in a few years as we shrink in number. We will be a party only for the elite wealthy. I do not think Gov. Huckabee will be chosen by McCain who will do as the party bosses and big business dictate. It will be America's loss and a sad day for those who care about this country's future. SC

Ken Needs New Reading Glasses
“Mr. Huckabee has proven himself a GOP asset. He was elected multiple times as governor in a Democrat-dominated state. Most Arkansas voters are Democrat, both U.S. senators are Democrats, his predecessor and successor were Democrats, and he had a Democrat legislature.

Yet despite that, he kept getting reelected. He even received 40% of the African-American vote, which is an extraordinary for a Republican.” … Ken Blackwell

Ken, democrats DO NOT vote for conservatives. Read what you just penned again, and maybe the light will click on. That would be like stating Massachusetts voted for a conservative, Mitt Romney, which we all know is hogwash.

Huckabee raised taxes, destroyed government evidence by erasing his hard drives, and is listed as one of the TOP TEN CORRUPT POLITICIANS in this country.

Yeah, that’s just who we need representing the conservative values of America isn’t it, another corrupt politician who is a master at flip flopping and misrepresenting himself?


“If John McCain is anything, he is a man of honor.” … Ken Blackwell

Men of honor do not commit TREASON, McCain / Feingold or McCain / Kennedy, when they have taken an oath to defend and protect the Constitution of the United States of America.

This whole article is absurd and I am floored you would even author something like this.

Is this what the Coalition for a Conservative America is willing to accept as the footprint for our future in this country, or do you have the spine in your back to stand up and demand true American values and a Leader for the RNC who is recognized to have what America stands for, you know, someone like Duncan Hunter perhaps?

The Republican party left me, I did not leave the Republican party.




Yt_Knight
I'm a Fair Tax proponent and an evangelical Christian, but I think Huckabee is all wrong for this country. As Thomas wrote, he's really only conservative on abortion - although I confess I don't know where he stands on gay "marriage." I seem to remember him being in favor of taking the issue out of the hands of the courts. But I do remember his pro-illegal immigration stands.

The only reason Huckabee came out in favor of the Fair Tax was to shore up his greatest weakness: taxes. He knows he has a bad record on raising taxes in Arkansas, his feeble obfuscations notwithstanding, so he and/or his advisors decided the best way to counter that was to support the Fair Tax. The best part is that he knows it won't pass anytime soon. The Democrats will continue to hold both houses of Congress for at least another two years - likely more - and the Republicans wouldn't even pass it when they had the majority. Politicians like it better when they have red meat to dangle in front of us, and passing the Fair Tax would make the issue go away.

On the economy, Huckabee resorts all too easily to class warfare rhetoric, like when he took a cheap shot at Romney for being too much like "the guy who laid them [i.e., prospective voters] off" rather than "the guy they work with." Populism is just a euphemism for socialism.

So Huckabee is conservative on one or maybe two social issues. He's bad on taxes and spending (raised spending in AK, too). That leaves foreign policy. "Treat other nations the way we want to be treated"??? Enough said. He's clueless about how to approach serious foreign policy matters. And the illegal immigration issue overlaps with national security.

try reading instead of sound bites
Le Stat said:
So Huckabee is conservative on one or maybe two social issues. He's bad on taxes and spending (raised spending in AK, too). That leaves foreign policy. "Treat other nations the way we want to be treated"??? Enough said. He's clueless about how to approach serious foreign policy matters. And the illegal immigration issue overlaps with national security.

Ovewr the course of 10 years, the tax rate in arkansas actually went down by 1%. The taxes raised were to repair the education system and the roads. Immigration, he took a single stand on children in the state for educatation and still wanted the parents to become citizens. I suggest you actually check out his record, it will be an eye opener.

“Leave Huckabee alone!!!”

Number Six Most Corrupt

“I suggest you actually check out his record, it will be an eye opener.” … Jim Bowie

And riding in the number six spot, we have Mike Huckabee, sixth most corrupt politician in America.

Yeah, we really need to look at his record don’t we?

http://www.judicialwatch.org/judicial-watch-announces-list- washington-s-ten-most-wanted-corrupt-politicians-2007




Definitions
Conservative - conservative fiscally and socially
Liberal - liberal fiscally and socially
Populist - conservative socially, liberal fiscally
Libertarian - conservative fiscally, liberal socially

Very simple.

You Article is Stinko
Raise Huckleberry as the strawman, then burn it. I can readily think of two others for the RNC job - Owlgore and Bubba Bill. Both are willing to sell their souls for money and popularity and certaily not against lying to get there. They have a proven track record, not just a nobody like Huckabee (who).

This party needs to change
If the Republicans continue sucking up to the country club crowd this party is doomed. I think the Republicans could lose some core constituencies like social conservatives, and libertarians after the 2008 election. On the same point, if you take out the social conservatives and libertarians out of the Republican Party, all you are left with are LIBERALS. If Huckabee is not VP, there is no way, that I will vote for John McCain. Huckabee will be president in 2012 and 2016. just wait and see, Reagan did it the same way.

Third Party
The Constitution Party
http://www.constitutionparty.com
The real conservative party.

This party needs to change
Boutte
I resent that you call us Christians from the Southern United States "dumb". Its this kind of attitude from the big business crowd that has me seriously considering becoming an independent. The soul of this country is at stake. If we don't correct our moral wrongs, all the other problems (violence, economic crisis) will continue, you can't have prosperity without morals and ethics.

the Huckster has done enough harm
By derailing Romney in a crowded field, the Huckster foisted Amnesty John upon us.

It is only apropos that Amnesty John would coordinate with the RNC--> the Rino Network for reConquista. It was run last year by ethnocentric Sen. Martinez, who told Hispanics in Espanol in Fla. to vote for their man Juan McAmnesty in Florida's primary-- a key reason we got stuck with this neoCON, open border RINO/lib in a flawed nominating process where Florida effectively decided things for America on one side.

Now McVain's official "Hispanic outreach adviser" Smilin' Juan Hernandez (former aide to Vicente Fox, then running Mexico) can manipulate it further for Hispanic interests versus those of Middle America. How PC!

Folks, DO NOT WAIT! Join the fight NOW to save America from the ILLEGAL alien invasion! Contact Congress DAILY... tell them you support the SAVE Act and you want no semblance of scamnesty. Here is the official site for everybody in Congress, followed by the great site of NumbersUSA with FREE prepared, subject-specific e-mails. Bookmark them and rattle those cages in Congress often! They will cost us > $1 million per household over time... we CANNOT afford this "cheap" labor, which benefits ONLY the MISCREANT employers at unbridled cost to society and taxpayers.

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm
http://www.numbersusa.com/actionbuffet
http://www.numbersusa.com/news?ID=7712

Huckabee as party chair
Only one thing for a conservative evangelical activist to say....AMEN !

HUCKABEE IS A FRAUD
Mike Huckabee exploited anti-Mormon sentiments to further his candidacy. As a conservative, evangelical Christian I am appalled at his example. The other comments about his lack of conservaitve credentials are right on the money and render him absolutely unacceptable for VP or anything else. He is just like McCain - do as I say and not as I do.

?
WEll, maybe the Huck would be good and maybe he won't. The positive is he is a feel good candidate and he can try to make everybody feel good. That being said I'm not interested in the feel good society without the principles this country was founded and built on, and many have died to preserve. REminds me of another candidates cry of CNANGE. Change what, an how much is this change going to cost me??? I don't want change, I want to go back to the Original Intent of the Constitution and the founding fathers.
As far as Huck "has always praised what is good about his opposition, and lauded their good intentions." That is not true. He trashed and lied about Romney. Of course he praise McCain (what's in it for him)Quite frankly he acted like he was jealous of Romney. He flip flopped on illegal aliens and amnesty/benefits for Illegals. Then he took up the fair tax issue half way through just to get the vote. I don't trust him. He reminds me of a snake oil salesman that will say anything to get a vote. But, then maybe that is what is needed.

Tiresome half-truths!
Mr. Blackwell brings up excellent points and as far as the Huckabee detractors go, either they are Democrats, who understand that he is their most formidable opponent or misguided "conservatives", Christophobes or even normally good conservatives who aren't looking at the whole picture and basing their opinions on misinformation propogated by the media.

The Judicial Watch listing is a prime example: if you do the research you'd find that Gov. Huckabee's corrupt opponents (the Clinton Smear Machine, the entrenched Democrat controlled government beaurocrats, the State "ethics" watchdog committees and Democratic State Assembly)did everything in their power to derail the Governor with all types of false accusations and charges during his 13.5 years in government. They would leak misinformation and false charges to the press which picked up the stories without following up on the outcomes. In all cases these phoney charges were either dropped, dismissed or proven false.

Even with the deck stacked against him he prevailed and became in predominately Democratic Arkansas the most popular Governor the State has ever had inspite of being a Republican.

As far as only being a social conservative: How about the "Fair Tax", the only one who signed the NumbersUSA No Amnesty pledge, his fervent support of 2nd Amendment rights, his strong commitment to appointing constructionist judges etc. etc.

Thank you Mr. Blackwell for seeing through the muck and helping open the eyes of good conservatives!

Huck? Just say "No"
Yes, Huck would be the Great One to unite the party unless the party wants to say goodbye to each and every member who doesn't qualify as a "Christian" according to Huck and his bigoted minions. Farewell Mormons, Catholics, Muslims, and any other religion that just doesn't happen to come up to the Christian bar set by the Great One. He couldn't be worse as a RNC chairman. I love the Fair Tax but not near enough to support the Reverend Smuckabee. I'm over him. We're stuck with McCain because of his Anti-Mormon bigotry and I, and many others, may be willing to forgive but I will never forget.

Sign me,

Disgusted

Ronwik......pathetic , lodestar-right on
How in he** can you call huckaberry conservative
when he raised the taxes appx. 50 million.or was it 500 ? When romney and the host to a debate asked him..he avoided the question completely
and went into his glibtalk about something else!
The man bragged about appx. 40,000 illegal immigrants in little ol arkansas--wanted to give them the right to vote, give them soc. security,
special privileges for their education.are you totally stupid..or just having a bad hair day?
ON top of that..he had the computer system destroyed as he left ---he doesnt respect the law of the land (like the clintons...his pals!)
Lodestar..as usual good comments!
elvis

Not a bad idea
As someone who did not want Huck in the WH or on the ticket, I think this may be a good idea. He certainly is likable; my only question is can he raise money. He did not seem to do to well for himself. If he proves to be a good fund-raiser for the RNC now, it may be a good plan.

Garth
I qualify as a "Christian" and I would leave the Rep Party if Mike Huck became Party Chairman. Not all Christians fall for or support Mikey and his policies and tactics.

No and yes
VO: No. Nothing against him, but he brings nothing to the ticket that's needed.

RNC Chair : probably a good idea..

Huckabee Is Scum
Huckabee ensured we will have a liberal in the White House. Its time to drum him out of the Republican party.

I'm an Evangelical Christian who attends a Baptist church.

Huck Derails Romney?
I agree with Blackwell's article and am disgusted with some of the negative comments about Huckabee. In response to "lodestar," Romney derailed himself when exposed as a chameleon by the Ted Kennedy debate tapes. Plus, his affluent, fat-cat aura did not connect with voters. In these financially troubling times, Romney's attempts at empathy came across as hypocritical at best. Obviously Huckabee's message pentrated into hearts whereas Romney's money merely decorated a gift that was ultimately unwanted. Romney's demise came despite the support of the extreme right and despite his inexhaustible source of funds. Huckabee's successes came despite a shoestring budget and attacks from both the left and right. If that doesn't tell Huckabee and McCain haters that there has been a shift in the conservative base that should be duly noted, then the only hope I can offer is self medication because I don't see this new conservative mindset ending anytime soon. Fiscal conservatives have used social conservatives as arm candy long enough--bring on the divorce counselors.

Not a righeous bigot
Garth!
You don’t know THE MAN! We own a winery in the Bible belt. I think I know religious bigotry, having been forced out of town and nearly forced out of the county, and facing “drys” and religious bigots at every turn. Governor Huckabee went to bat for us against prohibitionists in special interest wholesaters, as the current democrat gov. has not. He is not a hypocrite and doesn’t drink, but doesn’t judge those who do.

Janet is a gracious and lovely lady. At a fancy dinner, she toasted with a wine glass full of wine, and my husband, being the perfect gentleman that he is, drank her wine for her!

This couple is the best we’ve seen in a presidential race in a long time. I’ve survived the Clintons running our state, and running our country. I’m ready for real change. Research the FACTS, not the HYPE.

Oh sure, Huck would be just peachy
Let's judge the Huckster by his own words and actions, shall we?

500 million in new taxes = hope.
We broke something in Iraq.
We need wingtips in Iran.
Eat fried squirrel.
Stay at a Holiday Inn Express for foreign policy creds.
Steal furniture from the Gov. Mansion.
Destroy computer hard drives when you leave office.
Register for "wedding" gifts at Target.
Hire someone who thinks the Reagan Coalition is dead and wants to kick Romney's teeth out and other unmentionable body parts.
Fakeout the press to get your negative ad distributed.
Talk about Bush's bunker metality.
Talk about hating the rich and hating big business.
Call Romney a liar.
Divide social conservatives with hate-the-Mormons rhetoric.
Call yourself God's choice.
Compare yourself to Jesus feeding the 5000.
Major in miracles, not math.
Ask a NYT reporter an "innocent" question.
Lie about your role in the pardon of a murdering rapist.
In fact, lie about anything and everything.
Ignore the ramifications of the NIE report. Oh wait, don't read the report at all.
Destroy the party for the chance to go on SNL.
To hell with everyone, in fact. Self-aggrandizement is the name of Huck's game.

Sure - Huck would be just peachy. But there wouldn't be much left of the GOP after he was finished with it. If we can't find better men than this, we are pathetic.







Energize me-Not with McCain on top!
There is absolutely NOTHING McCain can do to energize me for him. I will work for my Senator and Congressman (both R's) but I will do NO work for nor will I vote for McCain.

Huckabee was not my 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice, so his being placed in a power position of the party does not matter.

McCain is what I have issues with and there is little he can do (maybe if he walked on water- then I would still not trust him) to get my support. He has and can live by his standards and I will do the same. Good Luck Senator but it will be without me.

WRITING A NAME IN in NOVEMBER!!!

Huckabee
I don't have much against Huckabee but on abalance scale with McCain, Huck is more conservative. My opinion is McCain throws more bull than Huck. How can we even think McCain is a conservative when he trashed the First and Second Amendments voting against every pro-gun bill protecting the rights of law abiding citizens that ever came up on the floor.

Who knows McCain might even pick Chuck Schumer or even ha ha Ted Kennedy. I implicitly do not trust McCain.

I believe in my heart and soul the best man for President is the former temporary Ambassador to the U.N. JOHN BOLTON.

As for Hildebeast, I wouldn't be surprised if she selected AL GORE as the V.P.

I want to ask a question, Mr. Blackwell
Would you still support Huckabee if he was a racist against blacks the same way he is a bigot against Mormons?

Or to put it another way~ Would you still support him if he had used racist, anti-black statements and actions to appeal to racists for political gain?

To my mind, there is NO difference. And I think we all know what your answer is. No one would tolerate Huckabee's behavior against any other group. Mormons are the last acceptable prejudice left in America.

Yet, Mormons are the most consistently conservative voters. Apparently the only thanks we get is a kick in the teeth from Mike Huckabee and a silent conservative press and punditry.

Give me one good reason why LDS folks should stay in the GOP when there is clearly strident animosity directed at us?

Why did so few people stand up vocally against Huckabee's shabby, decidedly un-American tactics? This it truly disheartenng to Mormons.

Anti-Huck = pro-gov't as usual
Ronwik,

I have to think that the different folks who are paid by "the establishment" to keep mischaracterizations front and center so that those who aren't as informed will develop a negative perception of Huckabee.

These folks keep non-issues on the table.

Religious biggotry assumes that Huckabee as Gov of AR tried to convert all AR residents to S.Baptist. Can anyone uncover anything that supports this? No. I am not religious and I don't feel threatened by Huckabee being a man of faith. I haven't seen any evidence that he wil impose his faith on anyone as an elected official. Again, it is in the party boss' interest to keep mischaracterizations floating around which prevent Huckabee from gaining traction.

Our country is going off a cliff my friends. The dems are going to tax the hell out of us & inflation/falling dollar is going to kill us. Wolfs are spreading lies & sheep are buying them... all to keep power/wealth/influence flowing up to the privileged few. Pull your heads out folks.

YK

Even if . . .
Huckabee were not a liberal at heart, or a bigot, or a tax-raiser, or an amnesty-lover, or a foreign policy dunce, or a corrupt politician, or a murderer pardoner, he would still have the insurmountable problem of being an intellectual lightweight. The sad truth is that he is not the sharpest tool in the shed, and there's nothing he can do about that.

No More Compassionate Conservatism!
Huckabee is another compassionate conservative. Look what Bush has done to the Republican Party with his compassion.

The RNC does not need another compassionate conservative. It needs a real conservative, someone with real energy and someone who will help to turn this party around. If the socialists do not manage to get into power this go-around, they will on the next go-around. With McCain leading the party, his choice will be a RINO. It will not only be the end of the RNC but the end of the shining city on the hill.

I vote for Rick Santorum.


GOOD JOB FOR HUCK

.....Press Secretary ...with his wit and glib tongue he could keep the Press Corps entertained and off McCains back .....COLOSSUS

BLACKWELL

.....I don't think McCain would try to utilize Huck in his administration ...he would be afraid of looking like he was pandering to the Religious Right and jeopardize his standing as a maverick with the moderates .....COLOSSUS

Gossip
PC obviously reads the Arkansas Democrat Gazette. "Guess the NY Times costs too much.

No Ronwik
None of the things I posted about Huckabee are unproven and unfounded. They are all a matter of public record - and most or them I've heard with my own ears.

Yes, I do hate Huckabee, just like I hate others of the same mold. People like him are bad for America. And, yes, I am emotional about my country.

baseballdoc
McCain doesn't want Huck anywhere near his administration. He was a useful idiot for Rudy and McCain, never anything more.

Huckabee would be a constant source of embarrassment for McCain.McCain is simply not that stupid.

Huckster
Well, putting Huckabee on the ticket would be the best thing that ever happened to the Dems. That Independent and Moderate vote that McCain is getting would run the other way and unless Hill/Ob committed a major blunder, they would benefit.
As far as definitions are concerned.

IF one looks at those definitions:

Conservative: fiscally responsible and socially conservative.

It is apparent that there really are no conservative leaders in the GOP save for those that are more Libertarian like Ron Paul.

Unfortunately, the reality of it is that this administration is not Conservative but Neoconservative:

Neoconservatives: runaway spending, big government and nation building around the world.

Funny how that sounds more like a definition of Liberalism. The part about Neocon-sim that makes it worse than Liberalism is that they throw in lower taxes. An economic cocktail for disaster which is where we are right now. You just can't continue to spend profligately, reduce your revenue and expect to flourish. McCain is the new fuzzy math teacher.

Howard Dean may be an idiot but you can't say that spending $40 million for his 25 delegates was a worse deal than Romney's $35 mill. for 6.

PC
Based on reading your posts you appear to be caught up in your own hate.

You accuse Huckabee of being a bigot, yet the words you use give others the impression you are a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

Huckabee did not cause Romney to loose, Romney did that on his own.

Romney was the first republican candidate to attack other republican candidates running in the primary. Many of those attacks were lies because they were either known to Romney to be outright false allegations or portions of the truth taken or expressed out of context to imply a misconception about the target of the attack.

Each time he focused his attacks on one of the other candidates he drove up the support for those whom he attacked and lost support for himself. He did it first to Huckabee in Nov/Dec of 07 when Huckabee was rising in the polls, then again to McCain in Dec/Jan. The latter led to his loss in the early caucuses and primaries because most true conservatives want their candidates to make their stand on the positions and issues they are running on rather than attack and destroy other fellow conservatives.

Romney was a media favorite because he gave them the fireworks and sound bites they wanted for their news broadcasts.

When conservatives started looking at Romney's record and past statements they discovered a person who would do or say anything to achieve his goals. In this way he is more like McCain than any other candidate which ran over the past year. The only way McCain is better is that he doesn't try to lie and cover up when his positions differ from the party majority. McCain's speech at CPAC is a perfect example of how he admits the differences and admits where he and the party don't agree.

I'm not happy with McCain being the nominee, but I will not resort to the liberal tactic of name calling or labeling of him which Romney and many of his die hard supporters engage in.

You Huck supporters are willfully blind
You know all about the Huckster, but apparently his "Christian leader" sham is all you need to jump on board. He is the most obvious charlatan to come around in decades.

None of you can refute ONE thing I wrote about earlier. Try.

Willfully blind = willfully stupid. Only a fool would overlook his ethical problems, his lies, his fakeouts, his panderings, his stupidity, his silly egomaniacal run for the nom.

Christopher
None of Romney's ad were lies. He was consistenly meticulous about telling the truth about the records of his opponents. The truth hurts. And he NEVER got personal, as did both Huck and McCain.

Huckabee is directly responsible for McCain's rise and Romney's demise with his blatant anti-Mormonism. He appealed to just enough bigots to let McCain squeak by. Huckabee is to blame for the GOP nominating a RINO - with all the enormous implications that will bring. But, it probably doesn't bother him because he is a RINO himself.

Romney was never a media favorite. He was always the target of the MSM, the DNC and his GOP opponents from day one. He was, by far, the most qualified candidate on either side and represented the biggest threat.

And you are wrong again in your last statement. When conservatives really started looking at Romney, they started supporting him. Look at the way talk radio came out so enthusiastically. Look at his overwhelming reception at CPAC. (Huckabee received no such approval.) Romney was embraced as the new conservative leader of the party, and he is the defacto front-runner for 2012.

Romney was not well-known, but when people learned the truth about him, they realized he was the best qualified man to lead the GOP and the country. His credentials, record, talent and intelligence are unsurpassed in this field.

Huckabee's legacy of anti-Mormonism in this campaign and all of it's ramifications is not one an honorable or even decent man would desire. He will surely come to regret it as time passes.

Gov. Huckabee as GOP Chairman
Mr. Blackwell, in my humble opinion, I think this bears further exploration. Off the top of my head, I certainly think it's interesting in a positive way.
The GOP needs someone to pull conservatives together. So many Republicans seem to have become apathetic or so disillusioned. We absolutely need someone with some common sense to pull us together or I feel our party may eventually fracture.
Thanx for this article!

PS I voted for you Mr. Blackwell, here in Ohio. You were trying to do in Ohio what Huckabee is doing on a larger scale. I truly hope that we Huckabee supporters see and hear a lot more from you. I would be thrilled! I look up to you in the same way I look up to Mike for positive, common sense leadership.

Huckabee as RNC chair
Gov. Huckabee has been the most underrated candidate this time around. He is very wise, fiscally prudent, solid to the core. He should have a place at the table in this process. RNC chair - most assuredly. VP if he chooses this, I will vote again.

PC writes:
Look at his overwhelming reception at CPAC. Huckabee received no such approval.)
****

Proof of how wrong you are.

Part 1

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7iyV4UvYoCI&feature=related

Part 2

http://youtube.com/watch?v=s6Pc90IaPAI&feature=related

Part 3

http://youtube.com/watch?v=g5fXvKOMiNI&feature=related

Part 4

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pzvxc0Dx3Vc&feature=related

When you are wrong on such as simple thing to google and disprove, it calls into question any statement you make.

In the above video of the speech I hear the same if not better response from the CPAC audience to Huckabee than Romney and McCain both received.

But you will just dismiss the support and say it was bigots day at CPAC.

No religious freedom under Huckabee
I would be very concerned if we allowed a man who has shown himself to be a religious bigot to run the Republican party or be vice-president. This country was founded on the principle of religious freedom. That is one freedom I hold very dear. Huckabee does not.

I do not want the constitution rewritten by the evangelicals. I happen not to believe what they do. This would be no different then England's King being the head of England's Church. Huckabee would have the Baptist church as our state Church with himself as supreme leader. This is something we need to be very wary of if we truly believe in freedom.

I believe that Huckabee was speaking from his heart when he said he would rewrite the constitution to match the bible. I believe his statement after that was only a poor attempt at political spin. You may believe what you will, but this is what I believe is the case. I will never trust Huckabee and I hope America will be wise enough not to as well.

Empty envelopes to the RNC!! & even more
EMPTY envelopes if the "Huckster" were to be RNC chair.

I agree with everything PC has posted here.

My husband and I have not contributed any $$ to the RNC for over 2 years, and WILL NOT as long as they continue supporting RINOS, not only for President, but so many in Congress as well.

We may contribute to genuine Conservative candidates, or where it is in our strategic interest, but our $$ will NOT be going to the RNC, for some time, at least.

We would be even LESS inclined to donate to the RNC if that back-stabbing RINO Huckabee were RNC chair.

CP- you don't und. what happ. at CPAC
The lack of response I was talking about is no top conservative leaders approached Huckabee for a meeting as they did Romney. Huckabee was not annointed as the conservative leader, Romney was. It is a matter of record.

Sure, people clapped for Huckabee. They always clap for statements they agree with. And Huck has shown that he knows how to say consevative things, if not do conservative things.

People at CPAC were very emotional about Romney dropping out - I doubt they would have had such a reaction if Huck had announced the end of his campaign.

I think it's just plain silly for you to imply that Huckabee had as great support among conservatives as Romney. He clearly did not, due to his record on taxes, pardons, and moderate to liberal statements before and during his campaign, and his manifested lack of intelligence.

CP is WRONG, and PC is RIGHT--we were
(my husband and I) AT CPAC, Christopher--were YOU there?

Romney WON the CPAC Straw Poll, even AFTER his terrific, though heart wrenching to the crowd, speech in which he suspended his campaign for President.

You would have heard thousands of BOOS for Huckabee and McCain, if only Conservative people such as those attending CPAC were not so characteristically and inherently POLITE.

Since you're so fond of youtube videos, Christopher--this one is one of the best I've seen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbeiRKMA9hQ&NR=1

A Christian Reporter Interviews a Hindu
and they discuss both religions. During an "off the record" moment the Hindu, being a curious sort and not knowing much about Christianity, asks the reporter, "Don't they believe Jesus walked on water?"

The MSM picked up on that, distorted it, and took it out of context, as they are want to do, and many Christians took the bait, swallowed it hook, line, and sinker. Even after the Hindu explained the situation and context, apologized, and thereafter refrained from commenting on the subject many Christians continued to condemn and vilify the Hindu.

These Christians were blinded to the true feelings and character of the Hindu by their intolerance, bigotry, hatred, ignorance, misinformation, gullibility, naivite, and blind allegiance the the MSM.

The above is for you, PC, but you probably don't get it.

realitycheck
With all due respect, I think you need a reality check. I'm no Huckabee supporter, but he is hardly a religious bigot.

As an evangelical, I certainly don't want to rewrite the Constitution. I just want it to be enforced as written. The First Amendment guarantees the free exercise of religion for everyone - including evangelicals.

When it comes to religious bigotry, I say the proverbial pot is calling the kettle black.

Huckabee = Socialism
Care is important when evaluating Huckabee. His rhetoric and record did not match his platform. He believes we should take care of the poor, but he isn't going to raise taxes. (That fairtax idea has all kinds of problems. Goggle it and read some of the pages against it. The biggest problem is that we would just end up with a national sales tax AND federal income tax.) If we are going to take care of the poor we are going to have to raise taxes. (I am actually in favor of eliminating the entire federal welfare program and allowing the individual states and various religious organizations in this country to fill the void. They would, and they would do it better and cheaper then the federal government ever could.)

Huckabee thinks all children should attend college, and if you pinned him down on it, would support universal pre-K as well. Huckabee wants the government to control health care because he doesn't believe we can trust "the boss" in any corporation. To extend that, if we cant trust "the boss" then we must have organized labor, to keep "the boss" in line.

Right down the line Huckabee believes in Clinton's platform, and he will find a Bible passage to support the position. Huckabee was in the wrong party to start with. Now that the Republican electorate has rejected him he should go quietly away, or switch parties to the one whose platform he actually believes in.

CP - Romney won CPAC poll twice
At the 2007 CPAC, Romney gained a lot of support, and won. But in 2008 he sealed the deal with conservatives. By that time, Huck had done his dirty deed and it was too late for Romney to overcome it.

I will never stop exposing the Huckster. He is bad for the party and bad for America. We cannot let a man like him near leadership ever again. We owe it to our great predecessors, Lincoln and Reagan. We must put up honorable men who will represent the interests of all Americans.

Ken - have you been living in a cave?
Huckabee is most certainly a bigot and your choice to ignore reality is troubling and revealing. Apparently you have no prob with Huck's tactics and lies.

Had it!
PC writes:

Yet, Mormons are the most consistently conservative voters. Apparently the only thanks we get is a kick in the teeth from Mike Huckabee and a silent conservative press and punditry.

Give me one good reason why LDS folks should stay in the GOP when there is clearly strident animosity directed at us?
-------------------------

PC: I am one that dropped out of the GOP! I did so a few weeks ago. With the malignment of Romney by the GOP, and in some cases Conservatives, I decided it was time to stop being taken for granted; coupled with the deplorable spending record of those Republicans in Congress, the double standard of treatment of LDS people by the MSM and others, it was time to say "Enough!"
Oh, by the way, I don't hate the Huck, I just think he looks like Gomer Pyle is all!


PC
We all got it, you hate Huckabee! Fine! The truth is Romney did what he did to himself. Huckabee didn't do anything! Romney would have had majority of support had he not attacked MccCain. He sent MSM into a frenzy and the people didn't like his picking on McCain, If you hav'nt noticed mcCain does well when America feels their Great American hero is beeing treated unfairly. And another thing, I do not read Huckabee supporters hating on Romney and calling him names or putting the Mormon religion down, only Romney supporters taking that nagative agenda. Romney needed to come off more like the nice moral man everyone says he is, instead of beeing defensive and having the I always have to be right aproach.

Romney is the one
Who first began the personal attacks at the other candidates.
I can find more hatred on the internet for Huckabee(I would never vote for him anyway, but facts are facts)than you will find for Romney, or any other candidate.

The bigotry comes from the ones who are pointing the fingers at others.
Just like ole Joe Smith himself.
Who caused the division among main stream Christianity and then whined about the division he caused.

TH is conservative?
The brief description in "About Townhall" uses the term "conservative" ten (10) times. It seems some writers and a lot of commenters didn't get the memo. Any article here at TH on a social, cultural, or religious theme is followed by comments filled with vitriol, disdain, hate, name-calling, ignorance, and intolerance. It's disheartening that there are so many so-called conservatives and so-called Christians with clouded minds and cold hearts.

The same is true of comments following political topics. If the person mentioned is not the chosen one of the commenter then nothing but bias, bigotry, hate, name-calling, and lies are forthcoming.

TH has become only a forum for RINOs, CINOs1 (conservatives in name only), and CINOs2 (Christians in name only).

No talent scout
Romney NEVER attacked anyone personally - he just exposed their records. He was always careful to say the he respected them and counted them as friends.

The opposite is true with Huck and McCain. The did attack him personally and called him a liar when they were actually the ones lying.

And you have revealed yourself a bigot in your post, so congratulations, we all know who you are now.

ACP
How is it possible to read the news and come out with such a convoluted conclusion about Romney and Huckabee as yours? Truly stunning.

Huckabee
Not only does Gov. Huckabee strike a chord with middle class and social conservative voters, but he also understands that our tax code is stiff-arming our economy like Darren McFadden on SEC defenders. We need to enact the FairTax Act, HR-25/S-1025. If Sen. McCain wants to be the beacon
of the "change" movement, he needs to support the
FairTax.

John Steinberger
Charleston, SC

jim bowie
Huckabee was governor for 10 years? How can you give him credit for things that were done when he wasn't governor? You sound like someone from his campaign trying to whitewash his record again.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/huckabees_fiscal_re cord.html

"The total net tax increase under Huckabee's tenure was an estimated $505.1 million, says the Department of Finance and Administration's Whitney McLaughlin, adding that the figure has been adjusted for inflation."

That wasn't all spent on roads. Even if it had been, the conservative answer would be to cut other wasteful spending to free up funds for roads.

Huckabee's opponents have misled people in some ways, but Huckabee also lies about his own record. I gave every GOP candidate fair consideration when I was trying to decide whom to support. There are things about every candidate that I didn't like, but I refused to put on blinders and ignore their weaknesses just so I could pretend to like every single thing about my eventual choice. The way many of you gloss over, and even lie about, your preferred candidates' records is intellectually dishonest. You have made emotional investments in them and refuse to see the facts for what they are. You respond to honest questions and disagreements with emotional outbursts, including ad hominem attacks and paranoia (e.g., "try reading instead of sound bites," and claims by many here at TH that people just want to attack him because he's a Christian).

Funny how you also ignored a closely related issue that I cited: class warfare rhetoric. Would you like to claim he was taken out of context? Perhaps it just doesn't matter. Wait, don't look here, look over there! "They" don't want a Christian to win. "The establishment" won't let "an outsider" win.

Ken
I guess I have add an Amen, you beat me to it regarding reality check.
I agree with what you said, as an evangelical
I'm sick and tired of being painted as one who wants a theocracy. These people haven't a clue about American History and the part played by Christians and Pastors in the Revolution and forming the government, writing the Constitution.
Instead, rather than thinking critically for themselves they parrot the ACLU and other christophobic anti American groups propaganda about the so called establishment clause.
We are far down the path to destruction as a
free Republic, and if we don't (by we, I mean Christians) get our act together, forget about the IRS tax exemption which has muzzled the historic voice of the church in our society and government (for those of you in Rio Linda, that means keeping the corrupt politicians feet to the fire, informing the people of anti american laws coming down, (such as HR 5351..hike in gas taxes and Chavez getting a tax break..guess he aint rich). My Lancashire Granny used to use that phrase in the dialect "pon coin kekkle brunt ar...".

great idea!
Sure -- let's have some one in the top 10 most corrupt politicians (per Judicial Watch) heading up the RNC. It's been a long while since Watergate, and it's about time us Republicans get back to our roots.

Is this guy on crack?

Your biased is all
I did not like either man, so it allows me to see the attacks on both men from the bias of the supporters of each.

Where is the difference?
----------

PC writes: Saturday, March, 08, 2008 2:18 PM
No talent scout
Romney NEVER attacked anyone personally - he just exposed their records. He was always careful to say the he respected them and counted them as friends.

The opposite is true with Huck and McCain. The did attack him personally and called him a liar when they were actually the ones lying.

And you have revealed yourself a bigot in your post, so congratulations, we all know who you are now.
---------
ts:
Cause I do not sing and dance to your tunes?
Ha ha
You are what you accuse.
Romneys record.
FIRST GOVERNOR IN AMERICA TO AUTHORIZE SODOMITE MARRIAGE.
Put that in your bigoted pipe and smoke it

oh, and...
ACP,

Are you insane? "He sent MSM into a frenzy and the people didn't like his picking on McCain." McCain and Huckabee double-teamed Romney from the start, as best evidenced by the sleazy backroom deal in West Virginia.

But that's OK. I don't fault you. Rewriting history appears to be what Huckabee and his supporters do best.

ACP has a valid point
that Romney supporters and Mormon apologists consistently and constantly bash Huckabee and spew venom and hate. In contrast, check out the tens of thousands of comments at mikehuckabee.com and hucksarmy.com. Not one negative comment about Mormons or any other religion or denomination can be found.

Check out the comments and the list of "Bloggers for Huckabee" on the right of the home page. There are evangelicals, Christians of many persuasions, Catholics, Jews, social conservatives, economic conservatives, conservative and moderate Republicans, and even some Democrats all behind a common cause with acceptance, tolerance, camaraderie, kindness--virtues that are unknown and not experienced here at TH.

Palmetto
Implementing the fair tax would require overturning the 16th amendment which will never happen with the current make-up of congress. It's not a realistic plan, and Huckabee only signed on to it as cover for his horrible tax record.

Much like he plagiarized the immigration plan published by NR in 2005 and used it as cover for his horrible illegal immigration record.

jim bowie
Huckabee favored giving in-state tuition to children of illegal immigrants. Again, his feeble obfuscations notwithstanding. You can spin that however you want. You can make it sound all weepy by saying "It's for the kids." We're not buying it. It was yet another handout to people who broke our laws and are essentially tresspassers in our states. Even LEGAL US citizens cannot get in-state tuition in Arkansas unless they're legal residents of Arkansas.

Huckabee also commented that the illegal immigration issue offered us an opportunity to atone for our history with slavery. Aside from the fact that it's a poor analogy, it was also incredibly nasty and dishonest to suggest that those of us who want illegal immigration stopped are somehow akin to slaveholders or the defenders of slavery.

And I forgot to mention the crime debacle. Huckabee wrote that it was his desire that the criminal in question be released. Huckabee tried to deflect attention from the central questions, but he couldn't erase that letter from history.

mikey and ronwik...
Dont hate huckaberry...just see him for what he is...a similar copy of clintons except abortion!
you make a good point about illegal immigration
almost! I never said he caused illegals in the
country! But it is how he approached the situation..! and ron....you remind me of him! Avoid the exact points and rave on about indirect
points...clever..but it doesnt fly!
As for ignorance my level isnt as high as your dishonesty ! Explain why he shut down the computer drive when he left..so know one could figure out wht had transpired durung his gov.
ship!?Until you can give a good honest answer to that..there is nothing more to discuss with you
And another thing..ronnie boy, Romney posted
things about huckabees record that is a matter of fact a matter of record...as pc points out!
But as a person mitt liked mike and told him so in a debate..or did you catch that..or is that
one of your points of ignorance ? Ever hear of tyson chicken...ask mike huckaberry about them and the illegals? Treat them with respect? Well, how about respecting those who believe in getting in line and applying for citizenship..how about respecting the law ronnie baby?!
There are only two things i appreciate about mikey..he's not an adulter( i guess) and he's a
pro lifer! But from what I have seen in the campaigns...he's not worthy of being pres.
and is very ignorant on foreign matters..he proved that over and over again! I have to go and deal with somone more honest...my car!

Attacks
The media highlighted on the tensions and disdain Romney had for McCain every chance they could. The debates where Romney started the negativity really got it started. McCain got his share in to, I am definiately not saying it was ok, I am just saying that is when the tide started turning for Romney, I am not trying to say Romney wouldnt have been good for America either, I am just saying that it is my opinion that it isn't Huckabees fault. Personally if it were a choice between Romney or McCain my vote would be Romney,see I don't care that he is Mormon,If the choice was between Huckabee or McCain it would be Huckabee, I didn't get to make a choice becouse my state hasn't had primaries yet and now we are stuck with what we have.

johnfw
Maybe that is true now, but a while ago Mikehuckabee.com had plenty of anti-Mormon vitriol on the blog that Huck refused to remove.

Huckabee is the one who spewed venom and hate, not Romney'supporters.

What I have done is to tell the truth about Huckabee and how much I detest his dispicable actions.

talent scout
I can't help you if you don't know the difference between the court and the governor.

It is interesting that you need to lie about Romney to make your point.

A FAIRTAX TV SHOW...NOW!!!
30% of Repubs love Huck, so they like or tolerate the FairTax. This is REALLY the most important plan and issue in America. ALL things will project from this. It's also, believe it not, the most explosively exciting topic going! The tax world has bad guys, good guys, hopes, dreams, tragedies involved. I honestly believe a TV show about consumption VS. existing taxes could could draw enough viewers to succeed. No better host than Huck himself. This is a golden opportunity for any TV company, whether they agree with the Fairtax or not.

PC
"Huckabee is most certainly a bigot"

And your proof is...?

ACP Wrong again
The disdain was a one-way street coming from Huckabee and McCain toward Romney - not the other way around. Romney was gracious and took the high road at every turn. He didn't even get as mad as he should have when McCain pulled the dirty trick in FL and lied about Romney wanting a date for withdrawal.

You have no credibility when you consistenly get your facts wrong.

Ken -
I mean this sincerely - open your eyes. I promise, the light won't hurt you.

Find the hate
PC writes:


Huckabee is the one who spewed venom and hate, not Romney'supporters.

What I have done is to tell the truth about Huckabee and how much I detest his dispicable actions.
--------
You are despicable yourself, and the one spewing hate.
Find one sentence of hate from Huckabee and I will kiss you bigoted ***

hey talent..... ha ha ha
I dont smoke...so i cant stick it in my pipe and smoke it! ha ha ha I hope you still like me even tho I "is" mormon !Gee, what does is mean..i 'll have to call bubble brain bill clinton !!

elvis ..your mormon pal...i hope!? I will not tell your friends you like a mormon..if you still do!?
Like you once said we treat each other with our differences with respect...smile!
elvis

PC
I asked you to show proof of Huckabee's so-called bigotry. Put up or shut up.

Showing yourself dumb is not
Conducive to learn anything from you, but how much hate you spew and ignorance is dam busting.
------------


PC writes: 2:44 PM
talent scout
I can't help you if you don't know the difference between the court and the governor.

It is interesting that you need to lie about Romney to make your point.
-------
ts:
Its not a lie, you lie.
And hate
Court told the Legislators to change the law, not the Governor, but the Legislators IGNORED.
So should have Romeny, but no, he fell down in standing for Constitutional Government and Massachusetts Constitution and ordered it done as if it was law,
Too bad you do not know who makes law to begin with and who judges law and who forces law.



Who's good and who's bad?
Too many folks here are falling for the false notion that there are good candidates who need to be discerned from the bad ones. I've got news for you: They're all bad. Some are just less bad than others. That's exactly why our Founding Fathers devised our ingeniuous system of federalism and separation of powers. They knew that power corrupts everyone who holds it.

When it became clear that Duncan Hunter had no chance to win, and after Tom Tancredo dropped out, I decided to support Romney. Yes, he has lied about his problematic record just as Huckabee did. But at least Romney is singing the right tune now on almost all issues. Sure, he could go back on his promises and campaign rhetoric if elected, but it would be very difficult and probably fatal in 2012, as it was for Bush in 1992.

Guess what
I have had many friends who are Mormons


elvis writes: 3:00 PM
hey talent..... ha ha ha
I dont smoke...so i cant stick it in my pipe and smoke it! ha ha ha I hope you still like me even tho I "is" mormon !Gee, what does is mean..i 'll have to call bubble brain bill clinton !!

elvis ..your mormon pal...i hope!? I will not tell your friends you like a mormon..if you still do!?
Like you once said we treat each other with our differences with respect...smile!
elvis
-------
You are a good man elvis in my judgment.
Look, religion is like this for all of us, we even have disagreements with our own families.

I seperate individuals from a religion even while I will never accept their religion.

And Mormonism is way out of my beliefs.
Way way way way out there elvis.
Not you

PC--"No talent" scout is indeed a BIGOT
A few days ago talent scout wrote (in the thread after John McCain's March 4 TH column) "The problem we are having is the Stinkin Mexican law breaking scum."

He has made hundreds of diatribes on the TH threads castigating Joseph Smith and promoting audacious lies about him. (Such as that "ole Joe Smith himself. Who caused the division among main stream Christianity and then whined about the division he caused." from his 2:13 post here today)

And then--ts's blaming Mitt Romney (as in his 2:30 post here) for SSM in Massachusetts, instead of the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts--where the BLAME rightly belongs.

TriciaCT
Right. No point even responding to him, I guess. Most Huck supporters are immune to the truth anyway.

You are a hypocrite
TriciaCT writes: 3:13 PM
PC--"No talent" scout is indeed a BIGOT
A few days ago talent scout wrote (in the thread after John McCain's March 4 TH column) "The problem we are having is the Stinkin Mexican law breaking scum."
-----

Stinkin Mexicans are law breakin scum who come to this country and steal Identity and Social Security Numbers and work illegally.
All thieves, crooks, robbers are scum.
You support the criminals and makes you scummy too.
------------


TriciaCT writes:

He has made hundreds of diatribes on the TH threads castigating Joseph Smith and promoting audacious lies about him. (Such as that "ole Joe Smith himself. Who caused the division among main stream Christianity and then whined about the division he caused." from his 2:13 post here today)
--------
ts:
Smith started the divisions among Mormons and Christians.
Then whines about not having a unified following.
lol
Ole Joe is a false prophet
----------
TriciaCT writes:
And then--ts's blaming Mitt Romney (as in his 2:30 post here) for SSM in Massachusetts, instead of the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts--where the BLAME rightly belongs.

-------
ts:
Learn how the legal system operates, you are clueless.

Court does not pass law silly woman.
Here is something else for ya.
America went down hill when we allowed women like you to vote

Make that a Tancredo/Hunter/Paul
Supporter
-----------

PC writes: 3:21 PM
TriciaCT
Right. No point even responding to him, I guess. Most Huck supporters are immune to the truth anyway.
-----
ts:
Just trying to teach you not to be so filled with hate and bigotry for your betters is all.

Huckabee stands way above you in class, bigot.

Romney had no law
To force sodomite marriage.
He just done it without law and committed a crime against the people of Massachusetts.
He abused his power as Governor and legal obligations.
America does not need such a fool in office as President.


I LOVE it! ts just spews more HATRED,
with each succeeding post! Thus revealing who he truly is, although--judging from all the scriptures he is fond of citing in so many of his posts on other threads--I am under the impression that talent scout believes himself to be a "Christian."

Let's see, ts HATES "the Stinkin Mexican law breaking scum," women who dare to disagree with him, Mitt Romney, and all those "Mormons" who dare to consider themselves Christians (and/or defend Joseph Smith).

I'm sure many others who have read talent scout's posts on TH could add to the list of his "bigotry."

talent scout and ronwik
use phrases like "he done it" and "lily-livered". Tells me all I need to know about where their coming from.

Are you happy now, ts and ronwik?
It seems that you (and your anti-Romney, hate-filled cohorts) have succeeded in poisoning the atmosphere to such an extent that most more reasonable minds have fled this thread, hoping to find some civil discourse elsewhere--or to go on to live their lives.

As I am going to do now.

To PC and elvis--
Have a wonderful evening and Sabbath.

We will be privileged and greatly blessed this evening (in our stake here) to listen to L. Tom Perry (in person) this evening and tomorrow. Can't wait!!

PC
"No point even responding to him, I guess. Most Huck supporters are immune to the truth anyway."

Hmmm. That statement sounds terribly bigoted. Once again, the proverbial pot is calling the kettle black.

realitycheck
We share a common opposition to Huckabee's "populism." Where we disagree is on the Fair Tax. Have you read the FairTax book? It clearly states that the Fair Tax bill proposes a national sales tax IN PLACE OF the income tax. That's the fundamental premise of the entire book, and the legislation. Let me repeat: The sales tax would REPLACE all federal income taxes. It also proposes the repeal of the 16th Amendment so the income tax could not easily be re-imposed by a future Congress.

By all means, Google "Fair Tax" and read the negative commentary. But also expose yourselves to the pro-Fair Tax side. You'll find that most of the objections and criticisms are founded on the imaginations of their writers rather than on the facts about the Fair Tax as it has been proposed.

http://www.fairtax.org/

BTW, I have some problems with the way the Fair Tax is hyped in the book, but most of the predicted benefits are logically sound.

Example: The authors are correct to point out that consumer goods prices would fall because competition would cause those charging pre-Fair Tax prices to lose market share to those who do lower prices. That's basic economics. But they conveniently neglect to apply that same market force to wages. They assert throughout the book that workers would get to keep 100% of their paychecks and have to pay less, even including the national sales tax, for goods. No mention of lower wages.

pc
Implementing the fair tax would require overturning the 16th amendment which will never happen with the current make-up of congress. It's not a realistic plan, and Huckabee only signed on to it as cover for his horrible tax record.

umm with an attidute like that it wont get passed remmeber pc we controll congress and if enough people DEMAND not ask DEMAND for the fair tax and the repeal of the 16th ammendment it will happen poltions like there offices too much.

also i didnt realize that the govnor had that much control over state taxes i thought that it was the lesgislature that did all of that. from what i heard tax as a total percentange went down under gov huckabee but there was one tax increase on something cant really remmeber what (need to look it up but no time right now).

i dont really remmeber hearing any bigotted attacks from huckabee againts rommney can you tell us where you heard them? and while you are at it can you give us the sources for you claims aginst huckabee so we can so our own reasearch?

Huck would be a disaster
I'm getting tired of the paranoia exhibited by so many Huckabee supporters. I always hear them blaming "fat cats" and "religion haters" and "northeast republicans" for their candidate's failure in the primaries.

It's all nonsense. Almost as much nonsense as Huckabee calling his victory in Iowa a "miracle." Although I do believe in miracles, there are no miracles in politics, only surprises. And Iowa wasn't even that surprising, given the rural nature of the state and Huckabee's penchant for populist feel-goodery. If Huck had managed to feed every single caucus-goer with three burgers and and a fridge pack of Mountain Dew, we could talk about building a shrine. Until he does, though, as a Christian I find his election-as-miracle crap disgusting.

Politically speaking, though, I find Huck naive and unconservative. The Fair Tax is never going to happen, and I don't like his nanny-state mentality. Social conservatives, and my fellow evangelicals especially, need to realize that the Constitution is perfectly fine the way it is. If we rewrite it to mirror the Bible today, the Democrats can come along and make it mirror the Communist Manifesto tomorrow.

No government ever made a sincere convert. Stop trying to pawn off your responsibilities as a witness to the federal government.

religion..and family...talent
religion is that way..disagreements in our own family...HA HA HA ! That is sooo true...i have tried for years to convince my family that iam
the Savior..not obama..not hellary, not the gop
....They sent me to a nice quite place where everybody wears white clothes...and iam sick and
tired of wearing this robe day and night!
Also...i cant sleep on my side since they strap me down at night... i told them i dont sleep walk...nobody believes me..Iam the Savior
not that flakey governor from Arkansas!! Not obama...will somebody please listen to me.....?
elvis

jim bowie
I apologize for questioning one of your comments. Huckabee was governor for almost 10 years. One and a half years following Tucker's resignation, then two full terms.

But it was a minor point that I was making. You still misrepresented Huckabee's net increase of taxes during his administration.

chr2254
Last time I checked the dems control congress and we are expected to lose a lot more seats in both the house and senate.

Huckabee raised 500 million in new taxes. At the debate he did not demy he was responsible for them, and called it giving Arkansans "hope".

I hate the IRS as much as the next guy, but the fair tax is not the answer. Even if we could appeal the 16th amendment and implement the fair tax, there are a whole bunch of unintended consequences that are unknown right now that could wreak havoc.

You can google everything about the Huckster, chr. You don't need me to hold your hand.

Without Huck FairTax won't happen.
Why would it?
Why replace a tax system that was created pre-global-economy that keeps power and wealth flowing to BIG Business and GOP party bosses with a FairTax that will bring opportunity back to Main Street USA and put small business and the middle class on a level playing field with BIG business and the elites?

I have nothing against big business except unfair advantage. I have every respect for big business and wealthy entrepreneurs and CEOs who get that way on a level playing field.

Huckabee would take the issue to the people - probably with semi-weekly television addresses until the people understood it, wanted it, and then demanded it.

Taxation without representation... we founded our independence on that injustice yet we allow it in this day and age. It slowly crept up on us like placing a frog in luke warm water & then slowly turning up the heat. Now we are near coocked & we let the only candidate who would champion our cause get beat up by the establishment.

To those party-boss surrogates (PC Lestat, & others) shame on you. My children will grow up in a less-free country because of the likes of you.

YK


Hype
Comes from you and "PC".
TriciaCT writes: Saturday, March, 08, 2008 4:04 PM
Are you happy now, ts and ronwik?
It seems that you (and your anti-Romney, hate-filled cohorts) have succeeded in poisoning the atmosphere to such an extent that most more reasonable minds have fled this thread, hoping to find some civil discourse elsewhere--or to go on to live their lives.

As I am going to do now.
----------
This thread was about Huckabee until you haters came along and spilled out all you bigotry against him.

Poor babies, just want the right to hate and be bigots all to yourselves.

People like you have used the name calling against anyway who does not agree with you and its become nothing but a joke to be called "bigot" "racist" blah blah blah.

Shut up and quit voting for the good of the country.

Huckabee good RNC Chair, Even Better VP
Huckabee's record is A+ conservative on pro-life, protecting marriage, Second Amendment, appointing judges, school choice, Katrina response, and managing a state. His record on taxes & immigration is A- ...not perfect but quite good. He pushed for tax cuts over 90 times & supported a tax 3 times due to a court order re: education & infrustructure needs in his state. The people supported it & the results speak for themselves---vastly improved schools & roads. That's why he was named one of the 5 Best Governors in the nation. (Romney didn't get that honor & BTW, Romney's record on judges, pro-life & marriage is horrible. Even since his "conservative conversion," in Jan 2007 Romney said he wouldn't bar homosexuals from the Boy Scouts. In Dec 2007, he came out in support of state ENDA legislation---a dangerous, pro-homosexual bill that would force Christian businesses to hire transvestites). But I digresss.... Liberals hated Huckabee when he was Gov, but he won over a lot of working class Dems because he's genuinely a nice guy & good man.

McCain NEEDS Huckabee on the ticket in order to win. Huck can gets lots of jobs---I'm not worried about him. McCain NEEDS Huck as running mate or he won't win the presidency. I work with grassroots conservatives every day of the week & they are clamoring for Huck as veep. Huckabee is about the only running mate I can think of that would get me out working for McCain this year.

Religion--
I am not one to gripe about anyone's religion. I am of Norsk and Russian background and believe in the Gods of The Vikings. Therefore I respect every American"s right to believe as they chose. But, don't try change me.
As far as candidates go, I want to see and hear a candidate who will say what he believes will bring this great country back to the way the founding fathers and the constitution meant it to be and have the proof of what the problems are and how to fix them with the help of the honest legal American people, not the special interest groups etc. He doesn't need to blast another candidates religion. He needs to stick to the facts. Some examples: Cost of illegals to our country, Cost of the outsourcing of jobs, Cost of fixing our infrastructure, How to really help our excelent military succeed and have the best equipment, medical care and care for their families here at home, How he will put an end and remove all the illegals and dry up their jobs. Tell the countries who encourage illegals to come here, we are sending them back, you deal with it. Have a workable plan for out education system to truly succeed. Quit giving money to every whining country that has its hand out, Put every able bodied person to work to replace the shipped out illegals. If they don't want to work, then it's tooo baad for them. These are just of a few items I and others would like for a candidate to put on his platform. He or she could then tell their audience, if you don't like my platform, then vote for another candidate. Others can and will add to this.
Am I wrong???

B.N. Svara

Your bi-as is showing
PC wrote "but a while ago Mikehuckabee.com had plenty of anti-Mormon vitriol on the blog that Huck refused to remove."

Speaking as a person who has visited the site several times a day since it opened, what you state is simply not true. If the first part of your statement is false then the second part, "Huckabee refused to remove," is not just false, it is absurd. Further, how do you know "he refused"? Did you ask him to? Did he send you a personal email refusing to? What's the source of either part of your statement?

I repeat: on mikehuckabee.com there is not one statement by Huckabee under "About MH," "Issues," news, blogs, videos or anywhere else that is negative towards Mormons or any other faith, religion, denomination, ethnic group, etc. The same can be said of the supporters who have written thousands of comments and I've read them all. Why would I read all of them? Because they are positive, kind, civil, supportive, informative, compatible, interesting, worthwhile, encouraging, and courteous. Amazing since the group includes such a variety of people--Christians of various denomination, evangelicals, Catholics, Jews, the not religious, social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, Republicans, Democrats, the educated, not so literate, wealthy, poor. All are welcome and we only have one two-word rule--be nice.

PC, please explain raised taxes.
You throw out a $500m number. I have always been curious... was this per year or over 10.5 years?

Wont vote for a bigot!
I wont vote for someone who is so desprate for power that he start hatemongering because of religen. If mccain picks huckabee for any potition my vote will go for obama, im not that thrilled with mccain to begin with.

English grammer ain't impotent
PC wrote "talent scout and ronwik
use phrases like "he done it" and "lily-livered". Tells me all I need to know about where their coming from."

PC, that would be "they're" (contraction of "they are"), not "their." Not good to mock someone's language usage when your own is deficient.

Lets have Huck or Paul instead of Mac
As a long time Dr. Ron Paul supporter, I have to say that Huckabee would have been a much better choice as the Republican candidate than is McCain the terminally befuddled. Huck is clear headed, in control of his temper and an excellent speaker, none of which applies to McCain, and all of which are vital to winning the presidency. After McCain has thoroughly disgraced himself, perhaps the convention delagates will choose Huck or Paul as their man for the job. If not, then two people will square off to fight for the presidency who have absolutely no business coming within a country mile of the White House.

Consider this...
at a rough guess, 80% of Huckabee supporters will not vote for McCain unless it's a Huckabee Vice-President.

Consider this, with so much loyalty for Huckabee, his supporters would even work for the McCain/Huckabee ticket.

And you know Huckabee supporters WORK HARD!!!

Consider all this, Mac Media!

Romney Obsession,Mormon Hypersensitivity
The obsession with and idolatry toward Romney is curious. Are you idolizers because he shares your faith or because you are well-versed in his record as governor and in his platform as President? It would seem the former because no one refers to the latter. In either case it's biased.

Huckabee supporters are dedicated; Romney supporters like Ann Coulter and some folks here are obsessed. Dedication is a virtue; obsession is a mental disorder.

Huckabee asked, off the record and out of curiosity--don't Mormons believe that Satan and Jesus are brothers? It's a question, folks! Just a question, not an insult, and the MSM and hypersensitive Mormons jumped all over it with accusations of bigotry. But no one has bothered to answer the question and I for one (make that two if you count Huckabee) would like to know the answer. If it's not true, fine. If it is, what's the explanation or justification for the notion.

Hyper-sensitivity is also a mental disorder, but more easily treated than obsessive personality disorder.


staying put
I respect BIGSKYER's point of view, but I will not be leaving the Republican Party anytime soon, thanks in part to Lestat, GOPJOHN, and RA. As a Mormon, I think of myself as a Christian first and Republican second, but you guys reminded me why I stick my neck out for both Christianity and conservative values. Many of the responses posted above are from bigots in denial, but Republican bigotry is harmless compared to the trash being put out by Lawrence O'Donnell and his anti-Mormon sympathizers on the left. Living in California, I'm just as skeptical of the Democratic Party's commitment to religious freedom as I am of Huckabee's.

sad commentary
Hard to believe the naivete of the nice contributors to this thread. Only innocent children would equate the GOP's chances against our Democrta opposition the SAME whether Ron Paul (Ha!) Huckabee or Romney represent us; or Mccain

Huckabee is clever but not presidential material. AT ALL. Paul would lose by a million votes; and Romney would carry 3 or four states total.

But John McCain can win. Like him or don't-- he's a national figure. He's very electable, drawing votes from the center, right of and left of centers. He'll attract conservatives as well as leftists, latins, men and women and the military.

Only NRAs and Fence-huggers dislike McCain. But he's pro-life, has credibility in Iraq, the military and tax reform.

Ron Paul is the equivalent of old Ross Perot without the big fortune. Huckabee stuck around to gain face and name recognition for upcoming 2012. They'd lose badly in 2008

One more try
Do the Mormons posting here only read the comments of each other?

Please, with all due respect and sincerity, put the anti-Huckabee sentiment to rest and let's move on.

I assure you that Huckabee holds no animosity to Mormons or any other religious groups. If any of his supporters do, none, I repeat, none have expressed anything negative toward any religious affiliation.

Huckabee most definitely believes in religious freedom (and the free expression of it in the public square). Please go to mikehuckabee.com and see for yourself and perhaps you can relieve the negative sentiments you harbor toward him and (by implicit extension) those of us who support his platform.

McCain is bad enough
Do we really need a member of the religious left running the party too. Bad on guns, immigration, welfare, the economy, oops sounds like McCain.

did anyone read svara's comments?
Excellent!
Johnfw..yes lets try to get along.
However, i must relate something to you about huckabee..in 1998 he went to Salt lake city and spoke as a main speaker..in a manner that was anti mormon..he was the main speaker! He knowas enough of our doctrine that his "dont they teach
believe that satan and jesus are brothers!" he was just being deceptive! In fact yes they are brothers!Who does mike think created everyone? Did satan create himself?! duh! In the beginning
all were created in spirit form by GOD! AN ANGEL REBELLED...AND WAS CAST OUT OF "HEAVEN" that was who we call satan(devil) he will never have a body like us!All this is touched upon in the book of revelation ! but many spirits followed him..and they are on this earth today!Why dont you remember this..God wanted us to walk by faith
so he place a veil of forgetfullnes upon our minds! Who was waiting for eve in the garden?
hmmmm!? Satan! He has a body of spirit only! But has powers to tempt and work natural powers..but nothing compared to GOD , of course! elvis

PC writes:
The lack of response I was talking about is no top conservative leaders approached Huckabee for a meeting as they did Romney. Huckabee was not annointed as the conservative leader, Romney was. It is a matter of record.
****

And you sum up the whole point.

No one should be anointed (you need to check your spelling before posting) to leadership by the elite few in power, they should be selected by the members of the party.

Huckabee has been the black sheep in the parties eyes from the beginning because the existing party leadership sees his supports as a group to use and pander to only when they need their votes to win an election.

If Romney is the best hope of the future for the party then the party is even more separated from the conservative ideals which it supposedly represents than I thought.

We already know the party and the elected party members have lost their conservative ideals. In the last 8 years we have seen an explosion of republicans abusing earmarks (bridge to nowhere), engaging in out of control spending (2 tax rebate stimulus packages which will be paid for by our children and or grandchildren), creating more government entitlements (medi-care prescription drug program) and unfunded mandates which states are burdened with compliance with (No Child Left Behind).

Now people like you say the future lies with a man who was instrumental in (and takes pride in) creating a government mandate to; force health insurance coverage on everyone in MA or face the force of government to seize funds in penalties, force private insurance companies to offer products or services below market value or loose their license to sell insurance of any kind in the state, and make up for insurance company losses due to government mandates by taxing citizens to give subsidies to the insurance companies.

I don't know who is worse, Romney or McCain. I do know that the republican party is becoming more and more democrat lite every day.

johnfw
You assuring me that Huckabee holds no animosity for Mormons rings hollow in light of his actions. You cannot separate the man from his actions or words. Elvis is right, Huck went to SLC as the key-note speaker at an anti-Mormon SBC convention designed to "unmask Mormonism".

I won't ever put away my concern for the un-American bigoted actions and words of Huckabee. We need to make sure that no man like him is ever in a leadership role in the GOP. He is a disgrace.

Also, many Huck supporters here at TH had plenty of anti-Mormon vemon to spew.

I'm sorry John, but I cannot respect anyone who overlooked what Huck did and supported him. They are in the same bigoted boat as he is when ethey do so.

I would instantly reject any candidate who was a racist, bigot or anything of the sort, and SO SHOULD YOU!

Elvis, okay for the sake of argument...
For sake of argument, let's say Huckabee slipped up... Put the worse possible intent behind his comment. Let's turn back the clock to December. At that time Romney was spending more money on negative ads toward Huckabee in Iowa than Huckabee spent in the entire election process. Huckabee is not perfect. If he did slip he definitely realized it and apologized for it. Why can't folks take the apology for how it was intended..?

I, as a non-religions (not atheist) person see the logic in Jesus and Satan being brothers. So what? You know, Romney could have explained this in his speech about religion and I would have been fine with it. I still have no positive or negative view about Mormonism or any religion with the exception of radical extremists of any religion.

I suggested on a TH forum before Super Tuesday that Huckabee and Romney have a meaningful debate. Guess what? No Romney backer thought that was a good idea... Hmmmm.

There is a thing called "substance" and there is a thing called "show". Substance has a way of proving out as long as game isn't manipulated. Ever wonder why a McCain/Huckabee debate never took place after Romney dropped out? Because it would have been suicide for McCain to go head-to-head with Huckabee on substance period.

YK

Christopher
The evangelical vote was split evenly between Romney and Huck. (I think it's fairly easy to see which evangelicals are the smart ones and whic ones are easily duped, but that's not my point.)

You want to diminish Romney's huge advantage over Huck at CPAC. You don't want to understand the significance of what happened there. He won both in 2007 and 08. He won because he WAS THE MOST CONSERVATIVE CHOICE of the field. Huck didn't because he wasn't. He is a liberal at heart as evidenced by his problematic record. (Huck is a black sheep in the GOP because of this.)

Romney proved his conservative credentials by his actions - hence the "anointing" at CPAC. Simply stated - he earned it. He also earned the support from conservative radio. Why else would they come out so strongly for him?

You seek to re-write history in a favorable light for Huck. But I won't let you get away with it!

BTW - Romney's healthcare is exactly what we need. It relies on the private sector, not government, and it holds everyone accoutnable for their own healthcare expenses. That is a very conservative thing to do.

I'll tell you who is worse than McCain - the Huckster.

Mormon Missionaries alllover Arkansas
elvis writes: 8:06 PM

However, i must relate something to you about huckabee..in 1998 he went to Salt lake city and spoke as a main speaker..in a manner that was anti mormon..
-------
ts:
All the while Mormon Missionaries were all over Arkansas.

What?
No churches in Arkansas?
If Mormons can preach and teach in Arkansas, whats wrong with a Baptist in Salt lake City?

Mormons teach that all other church's are wrong too, else why teach their doctrines when Arkansas is Church rich?

This is an unfair gripe if I ever heard one.






Knight - HA!
Sure Huck apologized AFTER the dirty deed! Just like he pulled the negative ad at the last second, but showed it to the press anyway! Just like he didn't know about the floating cross. Just like he didn't know the governor's mansion furnture belonged to the state and not the Huckabees. Just like he said the courts made him raise taxes! Just like he forgot he urged the pardon of DuMond. Just like he didn't know he wasn't supposed to erase the hard drives when he left office.

This man is the biggest lying sack of crap I've ever seen, and those who believe him on all this nonsense are fools.

By the way...
I just went to maps.google.com and did a search on Utah... Then did a search on businesses with the search criteria being "Southern Baptist Church" and then did the same for "Latter Day Saints Church" in Arkansas & I got the following:

Results 1-10 of about 1,738 for Southern Baptist Church near Utah

Results 1-10 of about 8,662 for Latter Day Saints Church near Arkansas

It sure seems to me that the LDS faith is fairly well represented in AR... It may make sense for those who insist on playing the bigotry issue to call there brethren in Arkansas and ask if what they think about Huckabee... You might learn a little something that will surprise you.

Peace,

YK

If Romney is the favored one of so many
conservatives as some would like us to believe then why is it that of the 17'219'377 total republican votes cast thus far;

McCain only has 41.78%

Romney only has 25.19%

Huckabee only has 22.66%

Paul only has 4.6496%

Because neither Romney nor Huckabee apealed to the majority of the active voters or caucaus goers.

I'm willing to admit Huckabee has faults and those may have led to his loosing to McCain, but those who blindly believe Romney doesn't are so caught up in their love of him to see the truth.

Like it or not (and I'm in the not camp) McCain is the favorite of the active republican voters.

In compairison, there have been 28'140'489 votes cast thus far in the democrat race, and the two front runners have a near split of the active vote. (Obama 47.31% & Clinton 47.29%)

Democrats look to be more active in the primary season than republicans. Maybe that is due to the failings of the party leaders and elected members who's actions have chased away voters and quality candidates.

The numbers I'm basing my post on can be found at:

http://maps.google.com/maps/mpl?moduleurl=http://www.google .com/mapfiles/mapplets/elections/2008/primary/primaries.xml &utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-na-us-google-mp&utm_term= decision2008

PC... really...
Romney proved his conservative credentials by his actions - hence the "anointing" at CPAC. Simply stated - he earned it. He also earned the support from conservative radio. Why else would they come out so strongly for him?

----

Uh, because Bain Capital acquired Clear Channel Communications in November 2006 (ahead of the campaign season)... Hmmm, think there might have been (how do I put this nicely...) "incentives" to get behind Romney?

Fair play would but Huckabee in the White House. Everything else was just the Party/Wall Street elite pulling strings for the candidates who play the game.

The GOP's ''fat cat'' stigma is correct
--
...both in terms of perception and with regard to the Republican Party's long, hideous history as the "court party" in American politics.

To reinforce this impression in recent years, you need look no further than the history of both the G.W. Bush administration and that of the Republican-dominated Congress. This image of porkslurping, preferments, and pandering to well-funded lobbyists is what resulted in the disastrous elections of 2006, and not even the most rabidly brainless Republican partisan (as opposed to those of us in this conservative Web site who actually *ARE* conservatives) can deny this.

Frankly, Mike Huckabee poses a threat to the plutocratic "Rockefeller Republicans" running the RNC, and they have to find some way to neutralize him.

Short of luring him off into someplace in the woods and dealing him a bullet to the back of the head, nullifying him in much the same way that the Democrat Party disposed of the embarrassing Dr. Dean - kicking him upstairs and into a *Flowers in the Attic* sequestration as RNC Chairman - looks like a pretty good idea.

Assume the most probably outcome of the '08 election, which is John McCain "doing a Dole" (a la '96) and losing ingnominiously.

If the RNC does *not* find a way to swaddle Mr. Huckabee into electorial silence, his infantile squalling will continue over the next four years, and he *would* be able to parlay his surprising 2008 primaries performance into a real threat in 2012.

The "Rockefeller Republicans" are *ALL* about maintaining their dominance over the GOP, and they want neither social conservatives like Huckabee nor *real* limited-government constitutionalists - like Ron Paul - overturning their reeking little manure wagon.

--

Jesus does not claim satan
For His brother either, but as an enemy of God and all Righteousness.

elvis writes:

"He knowas enough of our doctrine that his "dont they teach
believe that satan and jesus are brothers!" he was just being deceptive! In fact yes they are brothers!Who does mike think created everyone? Did satan create himself?! duh! In the beginning
all were created in spirit form by GOD!"

------

Jesus defined who His brother was, and He said it was only those who do the Will of God.
Mt 12:50 -
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother

I know satan is not included.

The Son of God never existed until born of a woman, except in the plan of God.
God, The LIFE,that dwelled with-in Him did, but the flesh did not.


False doctrine to call satan the brother of Jesus Christ

PC - your 4:53 PM post
"Even if we could appeal the 16th amendment and implement the fair tax, there are a whole bunch of unintended consequences that are unknown right now that could wreak havoc."

May I remind you that we did not have a federal income tax until early in the 20th century? I don't see how returning to the previous system would wreak havoc. I think the only unintended consequences would involve short-term adjustments to the new system (like many tax accountants and all IRS ees having to find new jobs).

Read the FairTax book and subject it to critical analysis. I did. Read my 4:19 PM post for an example. It may not be AS great as the authors claim, but it is a great idea. It deserves a thorough and candid debate in the public square.

PC writes:
(I think it's fairly easy to see which evangelicals are the smart ones and whic ones are easily duped, but that's not my point.)
****

It may not be you point, but every time you post you demonstrate your utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

Yt_Knight
I'm no "party-boss surrogate." For example, I plan to vote for a third party candidate or write-in in November rather than blindly support the GOP nominee. You need to stop the defensive, paranoid, ad hominem attacks and deal with our arguments.

You and I agree that the Fair Tax would be enormously beneficial to the country, but we differ on whether Huckabee is the guy to make it happen. Be careful not to attach the great idea to whoever claims to believe in it. You never supported your proposition that "Without Huck FairTax won't happen" with any evidence or logic.

Everything about Huckabee screams "compassionate conservatism" and GW Bush. I'm willing to bet that Huckabee doesn't continue to fight for the Fair Tax, except at election time. I doubt that he truly understands it. He never gave me the impression he did during the campaign. Anything on his web site has to be discounted because advisors tend to heavily influence that information, if not write it entirely themselves.

PC... biased lenses
Too bad... You are either a paid party surrogate or you are really really naive. If you are a paid party hack, shame on you. If you are just naive... take a step back & think man.

Turn the tables... If Huckabee had spent $20-40 million in Iowa attacking Romney's record with half-truths and mischaracterizations... don't you think it would influence the electorate?

I am telling you that Romney's (and Thompson's) attacks were mischaracterizations?

PC, what do you really know about the tax raising other than the kool-aid that you have been bottle-fed? Were the tax increases per-household or a positive result of getting people off wellfare? Over what period of time does that $500million figure represent? One year? One term? 10.5 years? You tell me since you are such an expert.

Think you guys! We have a bunch of sheep letting the Wall Street and Washington elite flow power/Wealth to the privileged & we need folks who are real thinkers to team up and get our nation back to "We the People". Huckabee is an agent to get our nation back. Take the blinders off.

YK

PC writes:
You want to diminish Romney's huge advantage over Huck at CPAC. You don't want to understand the significance of what happened there. He won both in 2007 and 08. He won because he WAS THE MOST CONSERVATIVE CHOICE of the field.
****

I don't seek to diminish it, just put in proper context that all candidates, even McCain, garnered support at CPAC.

You use CPAC as evidence of Romney's greatness, but in truth it just demonstrates the division in the party.

The key lies in the fact that even you say he was the most conservative of the field.

If he is the most conservative that leaves a lot to be said of the field.

And if the party leaders seek to convince us that Romney is the one we need to look to for the future then the party itself is failing to represent conservatism.

Lestat... agree and disagree.
This political season has made me think that there are folks lurking on these forums that are paid surrogates (not just civil people differing on opinion).

Whenever the hyper-tension around religion surfaces I really roll my eyes. We need to get past that.

With regard to your belief that MH is a "compassionate conservative" a la GWB... I just don't see it. MH is strong on immigration (build the fence, have illegals get in the back of the line - but quicken the process like quickening the DMV process), MH is tough on crime (take the Wayne Dummond letter in full context please), MH is for stong military, etc.

If you strip away the mischaracterizations and half-truths, you have a social and fiscal conservative. Remember also that MH is the only one behind the FairTax. Think any other remaining candidate has even the slightest interest in getting the USA on a common sense tax system? McCain won't. Romney wouldn't have. It was MH or it isn't going to happen. Sad but true.

YK

To all Evangelical Christians
who didn't support Mr. Huckabee and voted for McCain instead, you better examine yourselves whether you are of faith or not. You may be attending a Baptist Church, it doesn't mean you're a Christian. McCain is not totally a pro-life guy. He's not a true conservative so he's not qualified in the Republican Party. The only true conservative among candidates is Mr. Huckabee.He chose the wrong candidate, folks.

Christopher Parisho
Actually, exit polling (not perfect, but the best info we have) has shown McCain consistently losing the conservative vote and not doing nearly as well among Republicans as among "independents," which I'm sure includes many Democrats. McCain was the choice of some Republicans and almost all independents and Democrats. The problem was, as you seemed to acknowledge, that conservatives could not agree on a single candidate because they were all deeply flawed. On the issues, Duncan Hunter was my choice. But he apparently lacked the drive to raise funds and the ability to excite people.

I'd rather see none of the 2008 contenders run again in 2012.

PC writes:
BTW - Romney's healthcare is exactly what we need. It relies on the private sector, not government, and it holds everyone accoutnable (spelling again) for their own healthcare expenses. That is a very conservative thing to do.
****
It doesn't rely on the private sector, it is a government mandate which forces the private sector and citizens to comply or face the wrath of government power.

A true private sector solution would be to remove regulations which dictate what policies must provide, remove legislation which prevent individuals from writing off insurance expenses as corporations are allowed to do, remove legislation which makes it difficult for individuals to join forces and seek a collectively bargained policies as do companies, and enact laws which punish insurance fraud more.

These simple steps would; give private sector has more freedom to to offer policies tailored to the many types of policy buyers, give individuals the financial power to look for insurance not offered by their employer, and reduce costs by penalizing those who defraud the insurance and health care systems rather than the honest people who ave to pay higher rates and premiums to make up for losses due to fraud.

Romney's solution is Hillary care hiding behind the facade of the private sector, and if you can't see that you are even more blinded by you love of him or hate of anyone who isn't him than I thought.

BTW:

accoutnable should be spelled accountable, and healthcare is two words health care

Yt_Knight
You're right; I'm sure there are "paid surrogates" on here shilling for their respective candidates. But I don't presume to know who is one and who is a good-faith, grassroots supporter. We're better off when we argue the merits of a case rather than motives (as you seemed to acknowledge in your last post).

We'll have to agree to disagree on Huckabee's resume. I just think it's clear that neither he nor Romney was able to attract enough genuine support (not just protest votes against McCain) to justify running again in 2012. We need a consensus candidate who satisfies all the major factions within the GOP. That means someone with an impeccable record of conservatism on economics, security/defense, and social/judicial issues. It also means a good messenger: someone with charisma and some kind of relevant experience. Some say we almost had that in George Allen before he lost his re-election bid. I don't know much about him. Maybe it's not unrealistic to hope that someone like that will emerge in the next four years.

Lestat
Exit polling may show as you say, but then why is it the actual vote is different?

Because exit polls, like any poll, can be twisted to produce desired results by forming the questions in such a way as to make almost any answer favor a desired outcome.

My point with the numbers and percentages post above is to dispel the contention by some that Romney has or had the majority of the support of voters. Clearly McCain had/has more.

I would argue that on the issues and ideals Hunter and Tancredo were more conservative than the rest of the field, but failed to get the support they needed to go all the way and really offer the voters a true conservative option at this late stage in the process when we need it most.

Lestat
....in 2012. We need a consensus candidate who satisfies all the major factions within the GOP. That means someone with an impeccable record of conservatism on economics, security/defense, and social/judicial issues. It also means a good messenger: someone with charisma and some kind of relevant experience.
****

With this I agree.

I'd also say the party itself needs leaders with these same traits and ideals to get it back on track.

The question then is who?

To those who say Romney, I say no!

The other question is will the nation survive till 2012 with either McCain, Clinton, or Obama as our president?

Yt_Knight - the Fair Tax...
--
...is not an option the powers-that-be will permit, and for a number of reasons beyond those tht you perceive when you say:


"The best thing for the economy would be to replace our 96 year-old experiment with income taxes with the Fair Tax which would be much better in this global ecomomy."


The problem with the Fair Tax - for the "bipartisan" power brokers on both sides of the single Stupid-and-Evil Party (which today masquerades as Republicans and Democrats, respectively) - is that its implementation in daily life makes it starkly, inescapably obvious to every American how horribly he's being ripped of by his government.

Condemned as "regressive" (which it most certainly is), the Fair Tax openly and honestly makes clear the fact that *ALL* forms of taxation are regressive.

Whether charged at point-of-sale or not, all taxes ultimately have to be paid by the consumer.

Just because you don't see it printed on the label when you purchase your box of corn flakes doesn't mean that you're not paying for every goddamned tax and subsidy incidental to the creation of that product.

You *have* to. If the producers can't get full compensation out of you for the taxes they suffer in creating those corn flakes (as well as some kind of profit at ever step in the productive process), they'll be out of business tomorrow.

Thus you pay huge amounts of tax - *WAY* to hellangone more than the simple sales tax imposed by your state and/or municipality - every time you pony up your money for that box of corn flakes.

And coupons ain't gonna help one significant bit.

All that taxation is "buried" in the costs of goods and services for a reason.

To hide them from you.

The Fair Tax brings them out in the open.

And the politicians do *NOT* want that.

--


Christopher Parisho
PC's comments about Romney's plan relying on the private sector were I think misunderstood. I have been studying our health care systems for a long time. If you work for an employer who provides any part of health care, these things are happening. My employers share and my share increase yearly as well as benefits decreasing and deductibles and or out of pocket increasing. This is because, like it or not we already have a form of national health care. If any one shows up at the hospital for urgent care and has no insurance, it is governmnet mandated they be cared for. This is why the hospitals charge us $10.00 for an aspirin. We (my employer and I) are paying for the free aspirins that the hospital is forced to provide. This applies to all medicines and treatments.
The Romney plan is not perfect, but unless it or something similar is implemented, we will get a type of health care not unlike the Peoples Republic of Canada. There will be a shortage of doctors who will avoid the field due to government controls, delays in care, a government department as efficient as the Postal Service, Social Security and the like. Romney's plan makes all participate and sacrifice so that some who are lazy and want us to pick up the tab at the emergency room will not have to. His plan also creates pools that the private sector competes for the business. This is definitely better thatn Hillary care or similar.

Fair Tax discussion
SJ Doc, I do see everything you point out.

Sam, I completely disagree. Your inflation argument assumes that all else being equal... our current tax system is less inflationary... tell me that at the pump & when you buy gold.

Our current tax system was the brainchild of the industrial revolution. The government needed revenue & BIG Business/elite needed a way to avoid contributing. Now, with globalization, we are in a real mess because BIG Business goes elsewhere for manufacturing... why? Paying labor here (with 8.65% FICA + Medicare) adds too much cost to labor here. Super wealthy have all of their assets in Cayman Islands or Switzerland so they don't pay on investment income. We pay. You and me and every other middle-class taxpayer.

With regard to being regressive... There is a provision called the tax prebate that pretty much says that all who reside here legally are untaxed to the poverty level. Furthermore, the more affluent folks consume more & therefore pay more into the system (about as fair as you can get).

Cheers,

YK

Christopher Parisho
I understand what you're saying, and I agree that Romney was not the greatest candidate. My point is that there's a difference between winning the GOP primary with the help of independents and Democrats, and being the favorite among conservatives and/or Republicans. I was mostly taking issue with this statement of yours:

"Like it or not (and I'm in the not camp) McCain is the favorite of the active republican voters."

If you add up the votes for Romney and Huckabee, you get more than McCain's total. And that even includes the suppressive effect of McCain's perceived inevitability on voters for other candidates, plus Romney stopped campaigning after Super Tuesday. So while McCain may have won the nomination, it's a stretch to say that he is the favorite just because he won a plurality of the vote, especially under those circumstances.

Regarding CPAC, if the folks there were anything like me, they may have meant to cheer on Romney because he had been the best alternative to McCain and Huckabee. A cheer for Romney was like a jab at McCain. I don't pretend to know what they meant by it, but I like that explanation just because it aligns with my own sentiments and I've seen no evidence to the contrary.

Sam
I used to think you were just spouting Ron Paul's talking points about monetary policy. I was wrong. Your last post suggests to me that you really do know what you're talking about. I agree that inflation is a problem and that the Fed sometimes uses it to devalue gov't debt, but it can't work often because the markets will anticipate a regular pattern. They have to surprise the financial markets to get the desired effect. Otherwise, investors in gov't securities will simply demand higher T-bond rates to account for higher anticipated inflation.

The problem I see with your claim that the Fair Tax would be used to increase taxes by causing inflation is that they can do exactly that now. As the cost of living rises, wages tend to rise. Employers who receive higher prices for their goods and services can afford the corresponding shift in the "supply curve" for labor. So supply and demand for labor can meet at approximately the same level of production as before, but at a higher price. Higher wages, ceteris paribus, generate more income tax revenue for the federal gov't.

Sam
I also think you do your case a disservice when you question people's motives. I am a good faith believer th