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Friday, February 27, 2009
Burt Prelutsky :: Townhall.com Columnist
This War is Not the Answer
by Burt Prelutsky
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


I believe it is long past time to end the War on Drugs. That’s not because I approve of drug use or have any desire to encourage it. But this particular war has already gone on longer than the ones in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq, put together, with no end in sight and far less to show for it.

I would not only decriminalize drug use, I would give it the same legal status as tobacco and alcohol, and with the same age restrictions. For one thing, this would provide a great source of new tax revenue. Also, it would free up jail space for non-drug related crimes.

With the legalization of drugs, the profits that currently accrue to dealers, who use a portion of their ill-gotten gains to pay off politicians, judges and corrupt cops, could go to American companies and American workers.

In Mexico, the majority of murders and kidnappings can be traced directly to the illegal drug trade. Here in the U.S., just in the past two years, over 700 drug-related kidnappings-for-ransom have taken place in Phoenix, Arizona, and those are just the ones we know about. That city can now boast that in addition to all that sunshine and all those golf courses, it is the number one drug gateway to America.

In spite of what the bleeding heart liberals would claim, it’s not poverty, but greed, that has turned most of our big cities into shooting galleries where innocent bystanders seemingly get plunked more often than the punks battling over drug turf.

I realize that among those people opposed to my suggestion are those who’d see it as the government’s endorsing drug use. Considering all the rotten stuff the government has been up to, ranging from the confiscation of private property to the redistribution of wealth, I don’t think many people look to the government for their moral guidance. I would suggest that such people are not only naïve, but dangerously shortsighted. First of all, the War on Drugs has been going on for decades, and the good guys aren’t winning. I wish we were, but that’s simply not the case. Prohibition didn’t work in the 1920s and it’s not working any better today. And as was the case 80 years ago, it only works to the advantage of the criminal class to keep the price of the product so much higher than it would be if the drugs were made legal.

One of the most irksome aspects of the War is that we Americans are always claiming the moral high ground, righteously condemning the poppy growers in Afghanistan, the drug czars in Colombia and the Mexican cut-throats, as if they all conspired to turn us into a nation of junkies. The fact is, if so many of us weren’t infantile hedonists who can’t even go 24 hours without snorting, shooting or smoking, this crap, the Afghanis would start planting potatoes and the Latino criminals would have to find another way to make a living.

Besides, when millions of us go through as much booze, nicotine and Prozac, as we do, we’re hardly in a position to be casting stones at someone else’s habit.

Furthermore, without the high cost that goes with the stuff being contraband, there wouldn’t be such a major campaign to hook school children. Actually, if the drugs were as legal as soda pop, a good deal of their present allure would evaporate. And not just for the kids, but for most of the overpaid louts in Hollywood and on Wall Street.

If drugs were legalized, we could all finally stop pretending that addiction is an illness, and that those who commit crimes while under the influence are automatically entitled to a Get Out of Jail Free card. Using drugs in the first place is a choice, not an imperative. By this late date, even 10-year-olds know that the damn things are addictive.

I would think that rational people, whatever their political affiliation, could agree that legalizing drugs would be beneficial. After all, Libertarians don’t think it’s anybody’s business -- let alone the government’s -- what people elect to do to themselves. Conservatives, who already believe in smaller government and individual responsibility, should also be delighted by the additional tax burden that would be carried almost exclusively by liberals.

But even for Democrats, there’s a huge upside to my proposal; namely that there would be far fewer laws for scofflaws to scoff at and, as a result, far fewer of these pinheads would be sent to prison. And, as a result, they’d be free to vote.

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About The Author
W. Burt Prelutsky is an accomplished, well-rounded writer and author of "The Secret of Their Success: Interviews with Legends and Luminaries."
 
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Great article
Despite his clear misunderstanding of the nature of drug addiction (watch "Intervention" on Monday nights, on A & E, for starters), there are some really good points in this article.

I almost forgot I was on Townhall.com!

legalize it
let the morons self select themselves for destruction. meanwhile, the drug barons, and their counterparts, the criminals in law enforcement, are out of a job. good riddance to both. good riddance to the self selected morons too.

yep
I have been saying this for years and making the same points with one extra. We could let the addicts OD themselves and get em out of the gene pool.

at least
legalize marijuana. Here's why- California could climb out of debt much quicker by claiming marijuana as a cash crop! And no one would worry much about Glaucoma. In fact, I heard it helps reduce the risk of breast cancer and its invasiveness!

Burt.
A few months ago I made comments at some of your columns that were inappropriate. They were subsequently removed (fortunately!). I regret I did this. My apologies.
Sincerely,
rudolf

bravo burt
every article on townhall that broaches this subject gets alot of support.

it seems the politicians (on both sides) are the only ones who have not figured out what is obvious.

like the other drugs of alcohol and nicotine, we should let free americans decide for themselves to use or not use drugs.




This cannot be happening!!!!!!!!
A sane article from Burt and another one from Mike Adams. Both on the same day!

What is happening to TownHall? Has sanity set in?

Two Things
1. General question: Does drug use involve primarily Liberals and not Conservatives? I really don't know the answer to that question and am curious at what the response will be.

2. Is there a line to be drawn with legalizing drugs? I mean, are there some drugs that we shouldn't legalize? If so, why not?

Burt, out of respect for you I will revisit my knee-jerk opposition to legalizing drugs and raising the white flag on the War on Drugs. I know the argument for legalization seems sound, but there is just something about it that just doesn't seem right.


The authors points are correct
The problem is that there is too much money in it being illegal.

Secondly despite the all of the money sucked up by the war on drugs, any junior high student can get what they want in two phone calls.

The question remains, how do you fix it?

I spent 30 plus years in law enforcement. It is not the drugs, it is the crime behind obtaining the drugs that is the root of problem.

This REALLY can't be happening!
I agree with 659.

I think I'm going to be sick.

Drugs and Religion
The practical reasons for drug legalization have been known for years yet these arguments have made few inroads in the culture. The historical connection between drugs and organized crime is well known.

When the facts overwhelmingly favor legalization as a way to reduce crime we have to ask ourselves "Why don't people accept something that is so obviously true?"

Just as with Prohibition, the primary opponents of drug legalization base their opposition on their religious views although they seldom state this explicitly anymore.

At least the proponents of Prohibition were openly religious (Billy Sunday, the Women's Christian Temperance Union etc) but the supporters of the New Prohibition are less likely to openly base their arguments on religious grounds. Instead we are more likely to hear them argue that drug addiction destroys the will.

There is some truth to addiction having a physiological basis but when this argument is made by prohibitionists it sounds suspiciously like demonic possession. The argument usually goes like this "The drug addict's will is broken by the drug (demon) and he no longer can control himself or his actions."

If you accept free will then you must also accept that some people will engage in stupid, self destructive actions. Attempting to outlaw these actions must necessarily fail to prevent them.

I'm all for it
There'll be a downside, but this is an idea whose time has come.

I think we're a lot closer to this than many think - if our economy collapses, or if we have a long period of stagnation, something will have to give.

It takes a lot of resources to fight this
"war", convict and incarcerate the "enemy", and then do it all over again and again.

I think it will take a conservative to push this, since I think DEMS, although they probably support this by a far larger margin, are wary of the "soft on crime" label, and many on my side of the political fence would be quick to play this card.

Humans = Drugs.
The farmers of Ur liked their fermented grains. Washington and Jefferson made their living producing tobacco. The millions of doctors and physician's assistants can and will prescribe any drug you desire. Or, if you are tired of lying to your legal dealer, merely go buy the stuff on the street.

This article on legalizing drugs is the nine hundredth uninformed one I have read, since 1980.

The self-righteousness of most responders is typical -- even Mr. Burt's self-righteousness is showing.

Have another cup of coffee, or Pepsi. These products are as harmless as anything in your medicine cabinet, maybe.

Good morning, Burt
Although I'm inclined to agree with a great deal of what you wrote, a handful of small problems remain:

1. Somebody at TH centered everything in your column except the first paragraph.

2. The _Afghani_ is the unit of currency used by _Afghans_.

3. Legal, regulated gambling is still subject to undue criminal influence, which may be a relic of the days when more gambling was illegal. Construction and trash-collection, however, have always been legal; but organized crime managed to set its hooks in those industries, too.

4. I don't care whether anyone wants to waste his life burning reefer in his parents' basement -- provided that he stay out of my way. My main misgiving about lifting prohibition on additional intoxicants is that legalization will transfer them from one set of moral idiots to another.

Those in charge now have few qualms about shooting indiscriminately and seizing cars, cash, and other desirable items from citizens breaking no law and harming no one. In their zero-tolerance zeal, they often see no difference between a teenager with a roach and a heavily armed Jamaican gang.

In any foreseeable legalization regime, they would be replaced by the compassion police. You know, the earnestly silly people who always offer hopeful suggestions like, "After legalization, we can make sure that substance abusers get treatment. We can make sure that mainliners get clean needles. We can put the pushers out of business and end muggings and overdoses by making sure that every addict gets what he needs by prescription." And so on _ad nauseam_.

By "we," of course, they mean the taxpayers. Well, if I have to pay through the nose -- humorous connotations intentional -- in any event, I should have some say in what I pay for. I work hard. Underwriting daily doses of heroin for idle losers isn't on my to-do list.

Won't Happen
Too many make their living from it being illegal. Millions to producers and dealers because the price is driven up and millions to those within the government to try (only try) and stop it. Drugs are an industry built on being illegal. From the fields of Afghanistan and Mexico to the guys that work as prison guards they will all vote to keep them illegal.

Mexico is being ripped apart because of this stupidity. Heroin pays for weapons that kill our soldiers. At what point will we stop stabbing ourselves in the butt?

Michael
Washington was also the most prolific distiller in the new Republic.

As for coffee, its bounty of antioxidants is so great that even sniffing the unbrewed grounds is beneficial. And I'm not addicted. I can quit anytime I want to go into convulsions.

Drugs
We must legalize them. The way Washington is managing the economy drugs will be the only business left in this country.

TEA PARTY'S SCHEDULED FOR TODAY
Tea Party Protests Being Planned

Washington, DC
Friday, Feb. 27th
12:00pm
Washington Monument White House - Lafayette Park!!!!!

Chicago, IL
Friday, Feb. 27th
11:00am central
Daley Plaza

Saint Louis, MO
Friday, February 27th
11:00am - 12:00pm
The Steps of the Arch on Wharf Street

Atlanta, GA
Friday, Feb. 27th
State Capitol (Washington Street exit)
12:00pm

Houston, TX
Feb. 27th
11:00am
Fondren Green at Discovery Green Park
(in front of the amphitheater)

Fort Worth, TX
Feb. 27th
The outside stage at The Cowtown Bar & Grill
7108 Camp Bowie Blvd
3:00pm - 7:00pm

Pittsburgh, PA
Feb. 27th, 2009
12pm - 1pm
Market Square

Fort Myers, FL
Feb. 27th from 11:00am - 1:30pm
Bowditch Point Park

San Diego, CA
Feb. 27th
The harbor, just north of the Star of India
9:00am

Greenville, SC
Feb. 27th
Main Street
6:00pm

Jacksonville, FL
Friday, Feb. 27th
12:00pm
Jacksonville Landing

Tulsa, OK
Feb. 27, 2009
12:00pm - 1:00pm
Veterans Park
21st and Boulder

Cleveland, OH
February 27, 2009
12:00pm - 1:00pm
Public Square in Downtown Cleveland

Orlando, FL
Feb. 27th
12:00pm-2:00pm
Lake Eola

Fayetteville, NC
Feb. 27th
Liberty Point Resolves Marker on Hay Street
12:00pm

Lansing, MI
Friday, February, 27, 2009
12:00pm - 1:00pm at
State Capitol in Lansing

Sacramento, CA
Feb. 27th
12:00pm
State Capitol steps

Sarasota, FL
Friday, February 27, 2009
12:00pm - 1:00pm
Island Park and Marina Jacks
Bayfront Drive (41) and Ringling Blvd

Denver, CO
Friday, February 27, 2009
10:00am - 11:00pm
Colorado State Capitol Building - EAST side steps
200 E. Colfax Ave

Friday, February 27th
High Noon
Hartford - State Capitol
12pm to 1pm (Meet Supreme Court - 11:45 AM, on front steps)

Wichita, KS
Friday, Feb. 27th
11:30 to 1:00
downtown, Douglas Ave.

Nashville, TN
Friday, Feb 27
12:00pm
Legislative Plaza
Downtown Nashville

The ANTI LIBERAL ZONE
attacks Eric the Gun Grabber Holder, Dopey's court jester and Janet Reno clone.

Paleocon.
What was in that "snuff" stuff, anyway?

And hey, you're already paying for all the drugs all the Medicare-Medicaid recipients use, to get through the day. Whatever one says is his pain, is his pain. Like, it must be a pain in the arse, to live in the ghetto. So there.

Legalization of drugs
would be the final nail in our coffin.

The Roman and British Empires collapsed over periods of a few hundred years, but we, the greatest country in History, are determined to sink our republic in a single generation.

Legal drugs would mean less productivity, more accidents, more violence than we have now.

I made a personal choice almost 21 years ago, not to drink any longer. I had put aside marijuana and other drugs years before that, because it was obvious that my habit could easily outstrip my income. Not being all that good at math, I could still see that it just wasn't going to add up.

Faith in Jesus is about the only way anyone can lay down an addiction, unless you are as willful and determined as I was and I knew very few fellow addicts who were.

The flesh is weak and putting all sorts of chemicals into the body sure doesn't make it stronger. We have ceased teaching morality, and without it, the body politic becomes what we have elected for ourselves - self centered, self serving, and the total lack of personal responsibility.

My Dad preached that constantly and must have told his children a million times that, "the world doesn't owe you a living."

What?
Are you really going to place hard drugs, most of which are stronger and more additive than most prescription medicines, on the market with only some FDA oversight? If a prescription is required to get the drug of choice, you have solved nothing. Just look at the black market for prescription medications. The administrative nightmare remains. The overdose risk remains. Underage access remains. The law enforcement issue remains.

Legal drugs?
I see three problems associated with keeping recreational drugs illegal.
1) The crimes associated withimpotation and distribution of the drugs.
2) The availability of drugs by children
3) The billions of dollars leaving the country to finance more cartel activity.

Support the Fair Tax

roadmaster

That's what I love about conservatives. They, like liberals, are all for freedom except when they disapprove of a particular action.


Burt
How libertarian of you!

While I can see the logic of your argument, I wonder if it isn't opening still another can of worms to legalize drug use.

It seems to be a slippery slope, and where do you draw the line (if there is one)?

We already have a difficult time prosecuting drunk drivers who kill/maim others while under the influence. It is the 'There but for the grace of God' mind-set of the jury that makes it difficult to condemn someone for something they've probably done themselves.

Will legal drug use make this worse? I really don't know.

In my heart of hearts it seems like an easy solution until you think about it further. I think we would only exchange one set of problems for another.

Add this 'addiction' to all the others and it will be a boon for another soon to be overwhelmed government program: Universal health care.

I'm already mad that my tax dollars are paying for deadbeats and illegals' health care, abortions, and other elective procedures (IVF: Octomom). I sure don't want to add recreational drug use to the list.

Liberty based on rule of law;that is what our Republic was supposed to be. When did our elected officials over-step their responsibilities to legislate within a limited framework (our Constitution) to a point where the beauracracy is overwhelming, burdensome and tyrannical?

It seems now that we love Law more than we love Liberty. Time for a new Tea Party.

Roadmaster...
Excellent!

Paleocon gets it right, Burt
This is an old song. The reality it seems, of ending the so-called war on drugs will just come with another, and probably more expensive, myriad of programs, policies and taxes similar to the anti-smoking campaign.

Jr. High "Johnny" will still be able to load his blunt with only a couple of phone calls so their will still be an illicit drug market.

Eventually we will be spending billions of dollars running campaigns to curtail drug use, create treatment programs, and build facilities to house the drug addled, not mention making trail lawyers richer. Imagine the civil liability lawsuits this idea could bring.

Welfare and Medicad will have to go up to cover the costs of the severely addicted since they currently don't produce and legalization will swell their numbers exponentially.

Consider the current war on tobacco. Billions of dollars are spent encouraging people to quit smoking, educate the youth, and government acquires new enforcement costs whenever smoking bans are put in place and must be enforced.

People respond and quit or curtail smoking. The tax revenue drops so state government raises tobacco taxes to cover the short fall. It is the classic scenario of one group digging a hole while another fills it in.

Come on, Burt. How hard can it be for you to get your dope in La-La-land?

Sgt Relic
Excellent!

Another "Conservative" Silly Article
Burt, does this mean we could grow our own stuff in my front yard or brew the crystals in my kitchen and have a neighborhood party? Surely your answer will make the high school proms go a lot smoother along with growing many more children. Will it be okay for 6 year olds have some? Also no need to control prescription drugs? Burt, you are as dumb as rocks!

Michael
"[Y]ou're already paying for all the drugs all the Medicare-Medicaid recipients use, to get through the day. Whatever one says is his pain, is his pain. Like, it must be a pain in the arse, to live in the ghetto. So there."

Yeah, I'm paying for Medicare, Medicaid, Boy George's pharmaceutical bribe, the Octomom in California, disabled workers who remain fit enough to go skiing, and on and on. As you can imagine, I'm not thrilled by any of this.

I lean toward solutions to the drug problem that combine the libertarian and the draconian. Let grownups destroy themselves however they please. But punish driving while chemically impaired with immediate loss of driving privileges (permanent for the second offense). Punish flying an aircraft, running a locomotive, or performing surgery while impaired with imprisonment starting at 25 years. Deal in like manner with any grownup who provides any minor with a regulated substance. Hang cross-border smugglers. You get my drift.

By the way, one wonders about the international reaction to mass legalization in this country. In the Opium Wars, Great Britain invaded China to maintain its illegal trade -- and picked up Hong Kong in the process. If our lifting prohibition makes drug trafficking less profitable, maybe the narco-terrorists will seize Miami in an effort to make us reinstate prohibition. Stranger things have happened.

I hope someone listens, Burt
Like most things liberals do, the war on drugs was not really about saving people, it was about getting control of the population in general.

All these crusades that liberals take on always result in new laws, restrictions and best of all some new way to hit conservatives over the head. A good example of that was everybody sticking their nose into Rush Limbaugh's use of pain killers.

My daughter and I both suffer from a genetic condition that causes chronic pain and we have lived with it for decades. I get so tired of being looked at like some kind of a junkie just because I am not willing to use "positive imagery" when dealing with pain.

All the people who think you can just get rid of pain by thinking nice thoughts have never had to deal with chronic pain. It does not work. If it weren't for the drugs I take, I wouldn't be able to function and life would not give me much joy at all. But the war on drugs has morphed into a war against all people who don't live like others think we should. It has become an excuse for busy-bodies to stick their noses into other's pain management problems even if those people are working with a doctor.

Like everything else, we cannot create a perfect work just by criminalizing everything we disagree with.

The war on drugs is nothing but a political excuse for more laws and more government meddling, and the people in prison for these so called "crimes" are nothing but political prisoners.


Sgt relic
"Eventually we will be spending billions of dollars running campaigns to curtail drug use, create treatment programs, and build facilities to house the drug addled, not mention making trail lawyers richer."

Where on earth have you been? This is already going on and has been for over 30 years!

You really need to do a little more reading.

Just for fun...


Open 3 or 4 teabags at home.

Place them in a 'zip-lock' baggie.

Go to a very public place.

Pinch a good wad into a 'Zig-Zag' paper,

roll an ersatz 'Doobie', light it up, pretend to inhale,

and wait for the fun to start.

Wait !

This is so common, you may have to repeat in several locations.

Just for fun...

Jeffrey
I would be very suspect of judging a complex issue like drug addiction by using material I get from A & E.

Doesn't it strike you a bit strange that these people use such a painful problem for television entertainment fodder?

Television always manipulates everything. Nothing is more unreal than so-called "reality television".

There is NO WAR on drugs...


And, another thing, we have not fought a War to win, since World War II.

A possible exception was R. W. Reagan's winning of the First Cold War.

When there are more Fifth Columnists in your own Country than enemy soldiers, guess who will win?

The enemy ( or enema as I prefer to call them ).

If we wanted to WIN the war on drugs, we would kill the enemy on the spot.

Every single time.

Since we don't do that, we are not TRYING to win.

Give it up, or prosecute the WAR the way it should be.

This is not a war. It is a farce.



Apollo
You make some generalizations based primarily on sterotypes.

I am what you would call an evangelical, fundamentalist Christian, and yet, I am in favor of legalizing drugs, and what's more, I don't think prostitution should be illegal either.

My reasoning for this is because I understand that you cannot create virtue with law. Laws should only be used to protect weaker people from stronger people, not to protect people from themselves. Only God can take care of sin.

A lot of liberals (many of whom think mankind is good at his core) think man can create heaven on earth by simply criminalizing all sin. Real Christians know this is impossible. People are not good at their core. All people are sinners at their core, and we can never pass enough laws to do away with human nature. If people want to sin, they WILL find a way.

It is better to allow those who want to sin against themselves to do so. Sometimes, when things get bad enough, these people turn to God for help. If they don't, putting them in jail won't help.

Sgt. Relic
Many thanks.

You hit several nails squarely. For example, the campaign against smoking is a sick joke because politicians are trying to talk like vegans while milking their cash cow.

And you're right -- it's easy to imagine lawyers, advocacy groups, and bureaucrats having a wildly expensive field day with legalization. How could the FDA justify imposing heavy regulatory burdens on drugs meant to fight cancer or Alzheimer's while giving salvinorin a pass? What if it ordered clinical trials of wacky tobaccy? What if it concluded that crack is pernicious and banned it even though Congress had made it legal? What liabilities would the taxpayers assume if the government began distributing recreational drugs?

The mind reels.

Amsterdam
I went to Amsterdam with a friend who lived there for seven years before the police started looking the other way on marijuana and hashish. He couldn't believe the change. At the time he lived there, you couldn't wear a leather jacket because you'd be robbed for it by the junkies on every street corner. People painted NO RADIO on the windows of their cars so the vehicles wouldn't be vandalized. Junkies were everywhere because the WAR on ALL DRUGS didn't work.

Until the police started looking the other way on just marijuana and hash.

When I went there with my friend, those streets were safer in the dead of night than city streets in America are in broad daylight. There were no junkies anywhere in sight. Bar owners had signs up saying no cocaine or heroin allowed. And you could sit at the bar, listen to the live music, or in a coffee shop, toke a bit and enjoy yourself if you wanted. You could visit shops whose business was supplying seeds and other implements to help you smoke your stuff.

My friend could not believe the change. The cops had time and resources to rid the streets of the really bad drugs and their purveyors. I loved Amsterdam. If I wasn't such a patriot, I'd go live there. At least their authorities show some common sense about drugs. By giving a little, they gained a lot. And so did the people they're responsible for.

Military Man Grimes V. Obama
Here is another courageous active military man willing to satnd for the US Constitution and the rule of law.... The case is building against Obama ... he is destined to fall ...

Dr. Taitz,
My consent form is attached. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of this lawsuit. I was dismayed from the beginning at the attitude of Barack Obama towards us who wear the uniform. He accused me and my brothers and sisters in arms of "air raiding villages and terrorizing civilians" in Iraq.

I have commented many times that he (Barack Obama) would not be able to pass the background check to be a Naval Officer or a Police Officer. Additionally he does not support HR 218 which allows me t be able to protect myself and my family. I could go on and on. For the last 25 yearsI have painstakingly presented numerous documents over my police and Navy careers. If he a US citizen, presenting his birth certificate should be no problem. I believe that knowing that the person at the top of the military and law enforcement chains of command is eligible to hold the office is a reasonable request.

Very Respectfully,

Clint Grimes

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it!

http://defendourfreedoms.us/



a
I'm not sure who you are refering to when you say the "far left" but you are not talking about leftist politicians. It is the politicians, after all, who make the laws.

Maybe some CITIZENS on the left are in favor of decriminalizing drugs, and I say they are right. But the politicians on the left want things to continue as they are.

As for evangelical Christians, I can't remember the last time I heard them talk about it. Most evangelicals spend their time talking about Jesus not about politics.

If you know of any evangelical Christians who have been working to continue the war on drugs, I would like to know who they are.

Absolutely!
When the US legalises drugs, though, the government will have to be the dispensing agent, much like the state owned and operated liquor stores in Pennsylvania and other states. When the government goes into the drug business, it will target the price far below that of the illegal competition and thus drive them out of business. However, the crooks won't go easily - there will have to be heavy protection for the stores until the real cartels have been broken or gone into another business such as contract mercenaries.
Hey! Hire the out of work cartel muscle to guard your drug dispensaries! They've already got the equipment and have shown themselves to be thoroughly ruthless in defending their own turf. Wow! you can turn two illegal operations into two legal ones with one policy change. Sounds like a winner to me!
Of course, the law of unintended consequences might note that such a change would give license to all those of lesser discipline to become relatively unreliable for work and other responsible pursuits. No problem, pay for their welfare with some of the proceeds of the drug stores and the savings from dismantling the DEA.
The other unintended consequence would be that only disciplined and "straight" citizens would likely vote, work, and hold high (no pun intended) offices. This might give rise to a far more conservative political culture; indeed, it would probably lead to a real schism in the country: the drug culture on one side and the "straight" culture on the other. But while the druggies would be taken care of, the "straight" folks could get on with running the country without socialist interference. Everyone's happy - in one state or another.

Paleocon.
While "leaning" and "punishing," shall we include the soccer moms, while they try to raise kids, zonked on their doctor's recommendations?"

a
I would venture to say that if you took a group of people and set them down on a desert island with nothing and no way to gain anything, they would still find reason to start fighting and hurting one another.

Property or the concept of property does not make people evil. It is one influence that can contribute to evil, but so can other things.

A Sunday school teacher of mine once said "We are not sinners because we sin; We sin because we are sinners.

Burt
For once,I must agree with you. It is insane to buy a round trip ticket to Amsterdam, just to smoke "Pot".That $879.00 could be spent to help our economy. But the "War on Drugs" was really a war on minority voters. Using drugs as a pretense, has afforded the "Racist Elements" in America, a 40 year cushion for their policies. Having a mixed race President, proves how fruitless their efforts have been. Wise up America,it's tobacco that "Kills".

in addition to this proposal
To take this idea one step further , turn all the current DEA offices into drug treatment centers and supply the really hard drugs to the junkies free of charge , first thing that would do is eliminate all the crime associated with getting money to purchase these drugs and there would be a chance to try to get these people off of these life destroying drugs, plus we would know the people who need this help.

a
I should add that I agree with you about religious leaders whose lifestyles are extravagant.

Some of these leaders are trying to counter what was once an excepted view among the God fearing. That view was that the poorer you were, the more virtuous you were. If you read the Bible, excepting both testaments as authoritative, it is clear that God never meant for his people to be paupers. However, when “things” of earth become more important than the “things” of heaven, we have definitely gone off course. It is a balancing act, as is everything.

Being poor does not make one virtuous. There was also another position that was popular and that was that living in pain made people virtuous. Mother Theresa held to this view. I read some things that she had written on the subject. Christian leaders today have tried to refute this (mostly Catholic) view as wrong.

Some have simply gone overboard. I think God wants us to be comfortable and have a good life, but always with an open hand, ready to give it back or pass it on to others if God asks us to.

since we are legalizing
Since there will not be any regulations of drugs, does this mean we won't need pharmacies any longer. We can just make what we want and sell what we want to sell.

a
They might simply fight about who would be in charge.

"We will sleep on the beach tonight"

"No! We will sleep in the woods tonight"

"You can do the cooking tonight"

"No, I did the cooking last night" "And why do YOU get to decide everything".

Good Idea? ... Not so Much
As a former addict (25 years clean), I can tell you that making illicit , addictive drugs more readily available will not solve the root problem. There will always be a segment of society that cannot or will not face reality without a fix, but making it easier to obtain their escape of choice will only make it more common.

The real crux of the problem is the enormous amounts of money to be made in the business of illegal drug production and distribution. A better way of attacking the problem is to remove the profit potential. By instituting the FairTax, or another consumption based rather than income based tax, all the money being spent from ill-gotten gains but not taxed would suddenly be subject to taxation as well. Drug dealers don't pay taxes but they do spend their money. If the tax system tracked consumption and could recognize large expenditures with no legitimate income source, you can identify the illicit profits and eliminate them. This would have the side-effect of dampening the illegal drug trade as well as providing additional sources of tax revenue.

a
I should add that I agree with you about religious leaders whose lifestyles are extravagant.

Some of these leaders are trying to counter what was once an excepted view among the God fearing. That view was that the poorer you were, the more virtuous you were. If you read the Bible, excepting both testaments as authoritative, it is clear that God never meant for his people to be paupers. However, when “things” of earth become more important than the “things” of heaven, we have definitely gone off course. It is a balancing act, as is everything.

Being poor does not make one virtuous. There was also another position that was popular and that was that living in pain made people virtuous. Mother Theresa held to this view. I read some things that she had written on the subject. Christian leaders today have tried to refute this (mostly Catholic) view as wrong.

Some have simply gone overboard. I think God wants us to be comfortable and have a good life, but always with an open hand, ready to give it back or pass it on to others if God asks us to.

Michael
"While 'leaning' and 'punishing,' shall we include the soccer moms, while they try to raise kids, zonked on their doctor's recommendations?"

Well, if a soccer mom drives her own and the neighbors' kids to practice too stoned to stay in the correct lane, thereby endangering many people, one authority or another probably needs to get involved, no? Driving while impaired and neglecting one's children are, and should remain, crimes. Her culpability depends in large measure on whether her doctor has been giving her excessive or inappropriate medication, whether she's been doctor-shopping simply to stay high most of the time, and other considerations.

I am not so sure
about legalization because then we'd have to have even more stringent measures in place to ensure that folks who drive taxis, pilot airliners and helicopters, perform surgery and a dozen other tasks that directly involve the safety of others were stone cold sober while on the job each and every day. I surely do understand it from the point of view wrt putting the drug lords out of business and so forth, though. If drugs were at least de-criminalized, if not made quite legal, would we have the courage to make drug use as culturally unacceptable as using tobacco?

ModMark good to see you! I'm sorry I couldn't get back to you about your raffishness the other day! You've always been kind to me so I'll happily cut you some slack! ;) Today, I'm just glad it's finally Friday!

NEW ON THE ANTI LIBERAL ZONE
The DOPEY Mystery Magical Kool-aid elixir.

You too can drink it. Only $15,000 per can (your share of the coming 4 TRILLION dollar Dopey McChange deficit).

a - correction
should have read:

" If you read the Bible, ACCEPTING both testaments..."

Sorry about that. Someone started talking to me, and I got distracted.


re: war on drugs
Kudos to you, my friend! I am 59 years old, and I don’t drink, smoke or do drugs. USED to, but, do to my health, don’t anymore. I was a one to three pack a day smoker and drank a 6 pack to a case of beer every day until ‘95. I tried mary jane about three or four times and it put me to sleep! I have ALWAYS said that drugs should legalized, but taxed! I agree with you crime would be down with the cartels with nothing to do! BUT, do NOT put the drug addicts welfare, as they can get JOBS to pay taxes like everyone else!

Modus Markus Operandus...

Mod Mark
Location: NY
Reply # 52
Date: Feb 27, 2009 - 8:46 AM EST The Rat Strategy on Drugs
"If we wanted to WIN the war on drugs, we would kill the enemy on the spot."

Do understand for pot, there are alot of electric meters spinning out there with all those 1,000 Watt Metal Halite lamp in the basement of many homes in the US.

A nice hydroponic system will supply you with all the pot you desire for around $25/month in electric cost and another $20 for fertilizer.

Busting down the door and putting a bullet into the heads of a middle class married couple watching America Idol may not be the answer.

On the positive side with indoor growing and all that electrical use, it will p!ss off Al Gore!

~~~

As you almost always do,
You purposely misconstrue others thoughts and statements.


I said clearly, and categorically, that this IS NOT A WAR !

IT IS A FARCE !



Just legalize it, and stop screwing around !

I do not use any of the illegal mind altering substances, and would not want any of my progeny to use them either.

We have selective prosecution. Hollywoods or Sports or Politicians, all get a free pass.

Poor people go to jail.

How in he// is that fair, honest, or silly me, anything but a violation of that former docement, The Constitution, and its former rule of equal application of the law?



Burt, you are correct, again! But
the reason it will not happen is that too many in our government get too much of that money in bribes (oops, I mean campaign contributions). From both sides of the fight, the drug cartels are providing large, illegal contributions and the "law and order" groups also give tons of money to keep drugs illegal.

All of our problems can be directly traced to our out of control government.

Legalization
I've said for years that we should legalize ALL drugs from Heroin on down. Why? Give all these druggies all they want and within 18 months they'll all be dead from overdoses and we'll be rid of these weak sisters. If I were a Mexican or Colombian, I'd be mad as hell that the Americans have caused such trouble for my country.

Glade
"[T]urn all the current DEA offices into drug treatment centers and supply the really hard drugs to the junkies free of charge. . . ."

It was inevitable. This always comes up in any conversation about legalization that lasts more than five seconds. Always. Free drugs for all who want them. Free treatment for all who choose it. Free cleanup of all the mess that druggies make. Free lunch. Free ice cream afterwards.

The sad fact is, none of this is free. People who stay in their right minds long enough to keep society functioning, government running, and private charities funded pay for it all. And even if such things were free, why should anyone be compelled at gunpoint to give them away? Responsibility, personal or civic, doesn't begin and end with my supporting every ne'er-do-well in every way that every compassionate busybody thinks of.

Try this: turn your house into a treatment center, dispense "free" drugs that you buy yourself, and stay out of my pocket. Fair enough?



Legalize, decriminalize, or...
Legalization or decriminalization will just shift my tax dollars to the upkeep of those rendered unemployable by their drug induced haze. Will that be cheaper than policing and prisons, and result in neighborhood improvements? If so, I approve.

If not, just poison the stuff and put it back on the streets. Most of them will be gone in a few days; the rest will cold turkey real fast!

God forgive me for my lack of love for my neighbor.

WHILE WE'RE AT IT

.....Let's make prostitution legal ...the feminists justify abortion by claiming that a woman can do what she wants with her body ...if it is OK for her to kill her baby ...why is it not OK for her to accept money for sex? ...

.....When I was stationed in the Far East all bar girls had to go to a clinic once a week for a check up ...if they were clean their card was stamped ...without that stamp they could not work in a bar and no GI would be stupid enough to pick up a street walker ...

.....Consensual sex between adults is not a crime ...why should it be if the man is willing to pay for it? ...the government likes to regulate and tax things ...well here is a great oppertunity .....COLOSSUS

mad man mack, the blade (dull)
Mod Mark
Location: NY
Reply # 52
Date: Feb 27, 2009 - 8:46 AM EST The Rat Strategy on Drugs
"If we wanted to WIN the war on drugs, we would kill the enemy on the spot."

Do understand for pot, there are alot of electric meters spinning out there with all those 1,000 Watt Metal Halite lamp in the basement of many homes in the US.

A nice hydroponic system will supply you with all the pot you desire for around $25/month in electric cost and another $20 for fertilizer.

Busting down the door and putting a bullet into the heads of a middle class married couple watching America Idol may not be the answer.

On the positive side with indoor growing and all that electrical use, it will p!ss off Al Gore!

~~~~

OK, let me quote Mad Markx, as he does others, such as altering quotes or purposely misinterpretting them...

Altered quotes from mad max ( do you play sax? do you fax to the max inane jokes, I could go on, ) :

mad max:
Busting down the door and putting a bullet into the heads of a middle class married couple watching America Idol may be the answer.

On the positive side with indoor growing and all that electrical use, it will p!ss on Al Gore!

~~~

Silly child, if you comment on another's post, please try to understand it first.

Either that or stop consuming alcoholic beverages so early in the morning.

~~~~~~~~


Anne in PA, Please take over here. I am getting nauseous from this fool jerk.

It's obvious to all, you have a stronger stomach than the Rat.




Surrender this War
The War on Drugs is a war this country can never win even with the most advanced weapons and the best funded police force in the world. It is for one simple reason...demand. People do drugs because they make them feel good. There are risks involved with using drugs, but those are risks people have to weigh and are ultimately responsible for. And turning them into criminals isn't going to make their lives better. It's going to make them worse, which may lead them to doing even more drugs. It's a totally self-defeating system.

The logic is mind boggling. The government spends so much money on combating drugs and when it doesn't work what do they do? Just ask for more money! Pretty soon they'll ask for so much money they'll bankrupt this nation more than any bailout. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different response. And I think it's safe to say that when it comes to the war on drugs, the government is certifiably insane.

Ratas y Ratones
You want a quote from Mod Mark, I'll give you one.

This is an EXACT QUOTE from a post he made last year in response to another post by Lolo1:

"And why did Christianity take such a radical change with the birth of Christ?"

Although within the last couple of weeks, Chloe showed that she wants to put HER oar in the water of the deepest depths of liberal deep-thinking to appear on this site when SHE said on Ann Coulter's thread of last week, "Black American cannot by definition be racist".

Eureka!
Don't let the Dems get a hold of this idea. Through executive order they might require mandatory marijuana use for every citizen. Heck PROVIDE the dope at taxpayer expense. Coke too - talk about a stimulus!
Get everyone really, really stoned and then they won't be able to argue against the government's increasing encroachment on our personal lib...libert...uhmmm...can I have a bite of your hot dog? Y'know dude, every time I see a picture of the great one-O, I get this craving for Hostess Ding-Dongs. And I'm like, "Whoa, dude! I said CHEESE WHIZ, not a BLOCK of cheese!"
(whatever)

Legal Use
When I smoke a cigarette it doesn't impair me. When I drink a beer or have a glass of liquor, I'm not necessarily doing it to drunk. Drugs are taken to get high - period!
Sure,we're losing the war on drugs because we haven't taken it serious enough to conduct an all-out war and have instead handled it the same as we do our real wars, with all kinds of limiting restraints and restrictions. With our judicial system, it may be we won't ever be able to be successful, but this doesn't mean we should give up.
Even making drugs legal will only produce so much in the way of taxes and, just as presently with cigarettes, it won't be long before we will need new customers to produce all the tax dollars we'll need for all kinds of pork projects. Has anyone ever thought that if everyone quit smoking, how would we fund the programs dependent on smoking taxes?
Making drugs legal will just lower the age accessibility. Kids will start becoming dealers to the younger kids, since laws against this will only meet with the same lack of success as we're touting in this discussion.
Legalizing certain drugs will only lead to a stepping-stone approach to other drugs being legalized. Those against capital punishment, if successful, will turn to life imprisonment being unfair. There is always a cause to fight for.
It is serious enough we have to do something different and we need to tackle this problem with pro and con and discussions such as this help. If we change laws, we must anticipate potential loopholes that could cause harm if not properly considered.

ModMark
No worries! :)

But seriously
IF treatment becomes the focus instead of deterrent (which I agree, has been useless to everyone but the illegal narcotics "industry"), I wonder how the bureaucrats who manage socialized medicine will feel about the expenditure of federal monies to treat a "disease" that began as a personal choice.
Hmmm....

War on Drugs
If you really believe that the policy ain't broke, don't fix it.

Btw, what are our exit strategies from the quagmires of the wars on drugs and poverty?

War on Drugs WORSE than quagmire
from get-go, as Bill Casey's CIA was actively smuggling Jamrud-heroin into US to ostensibly "help Afghan insurgency" (which Casey had been told by his friend--and Zia's toady, killed along with him--ISI chief Akhtar Rehman).

Dr. Druhl...

Dr. Druhl
Location: MA
Reply # 47
Date: Feb 27, 2009 - 8:35 AM EST Absolutely!...

[ Your last paragraph, only. 'word limit' is justification. ] ...


" The other unintended consequence would be that only disciplined and "straight" citizens would likely vote, work, and hold high (no pun intended) offices. This might give rise to a far more conservative political culture; indeed, it would probably lead to a real schism in the country: the drug culture on one side and the "straight" culture on the other. But while the druggies would be taken care of, the "straight" folks could get on with running the country without socialist interference. Everyone's happy - in one state or another. "

~~~

Dr. Druhl

Your last para...

I need to think some more about this, but you may have hit the entire crux of the issue, and simultaneously explained why it will not happen.

Much of your other comment has merit as well.

I suspect that may happen in the first year or so, but soon, every person in the country would be growing their own 'grass', 'pot', or whatever it is called today, that is, if they wanted to grow the 'weed'.

Some of course would be too lazy to do so, as that is a characteristic of the users.

The drugs that do not grow well here, cocaine and opium would be the problems.


Drug traffic.
Lets face it,there's to much money involved in all this and they ain't gonna give that up,so if you get in the way;Howdious! It's just like the Korean war and Vietnam War;we could have beat the crap out of them,but the
politicians had to get their nose in the way,so we left in humiliation.

Had Truman kept his nose out,McArther would have blown the Chinese off the map.The thing is,they give you the right tools,but you may offend somebody if you use them.

M Sederoff Reply # 43 8:15 AM
I didn't say that all religious people oppose legalizing drugs, I said that there is often an unnamed reason for opposing legalization that is religious in nature.

However, your point about many liberals trying to criminalize everything they dislike is valid. The pseudo-scientific war against second hand smoke is one example. The attempts to censor talk radio is another.

I disagree that man is "sinful" by nature. "Sin" is a religious concept that uses offensiveness to God as the basis for morality. The standard of morality is life on earth. That which furthers and enhances life is the good, that which diminishes or destroys life is evil.

Human beings survive by the use of their minds and freedom is necessary for human beings to live by their own judgment.

Being free to make mistakes and fail is necessary to maintain the freedom to live successfully.


other kids moms let them jump off bridge
Burt,
We haven't won the war on murder, either. So, we should quit trying to stop it, because it's a lost cause?

Abuse of drugs is bad, and would only increase with a lower price. Not a good thing.

I can only hope you are being facetious.

Jim in Philly


Mod Mark
I am Libertarian also and agree with you that Marijuana should be legal. That is where it should stop though. The reason for this is that one cannot overdose using Marijuana. This is not the case with other illegal drugs. Marijuana is less harmful to someone than alcohol or tobacco.

Also parts of the plant that are not currently used, ie the fibers, have many uses that could create new industry. ethanol and bio-diesel can be made from hemp (marijuana).

Marijuana effects driving less than alcohol does, but can still impair ones driving.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn2063

And Marijuana is less addictive than nicotine

http://www.drugscience.org/dl/dl_comparison.html

http://www.saferchoice.org/content/view/24/32/

Weird



OFF THE CHART WEIRD...

From Drudge Report ~ relating to drug usage.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090227/NEWS0107/902270 346/1055/NEWS


Who is taking the drugs?
Welfare recipients?
A high mother couldn't possibly take care of a baby. Would the gov't have to step in and take all of the drugged mothers children away when the substance is legal?
Who is going to supply the drugs? the government? You want the USA government to become drug pushers? Do you want marijuana marketed to our children? There will still be an underground if there are too many restrictions and there will have to be too many restrictions. The answer is abstinance.
I hope all of the druggies across the nation realize the spilled blood of many innocent bystanders is on their hands.
You can't compare marijuana to caffeine or even a glass of wine. You don't get kind of high on drugs. You get high. There is a difference between having a glass of wine with your husband and a pothead.

Obama could win the Libertarian vote and spend the rest of his candidacy in happy land. Maybe it would be good for the country.
Libertarians are not conservatives.

Well, you could start...
...making everyone arrested on drug charges accessories to murder and kidnapping, given how the drug trade seems to result in these two crimes. No Re-Hab for the Hollywood starlet, no probation for the NBA star, no protection from the NFL players union, no excuses for politicians or their kin, do not pass Go do not collect $200. Going to need a lot of jails though and a lot of gaurds, Mr. Obama could make that part of his stimulus package, get people to work building and manning prisons.

But we all know that ain't going to happen, we can't treat the darlings and important people like commoners.

Problem I see with Burt's idea is that there is a big business around having drugs illegal, and it's not just the drug cartels. Look at all the government money funneled into the treatment programs that don't work, so we shovel more money into, not to mention the billions sent over to countries, then how are you going to shut down the DEA.

If you make drugs legal, look at all the drug smugglers who would join the ranks of the unemployed, who's going to pay their mortgage?

Oh wait......

Joycey
I will respectfully disagree with you. And yes I am conservative. If you look at the links i posted you will see what i am talking about. Marijuana IS less harmful to someone than alcohol.

THE GREAT OBAMA GIVE AWAY
THE METHOD OF FREEDOM THAT WORKS IS CALLED WAR. YOU WOULD BE LIVING IN LIVING IN SOME OTHER COUNTRY IF IT WAS NOT FOR WAR. THE BRITISH WOULD HAVE THE ATLANTIC PART OF THE COUNTRY, WHILE MEXICO WOULD HAVE THE SOUTHWESTERN BORDER STATES CLEAN UP TO THE DAKOTAS, THE FOOTBALL GAME BETWEEN THE NORTH AND SOUTH IS CALLED THE RED RIVER SHOOT OUT II. THE FRENCH WOULD HAVE THE MIDDLE OF THE COUNTRY, BY NOW NO THEY WOULD NOT THEY WOULD HAVE LOST IT WITHOUT WAR. IT WAS FUNNY TO HEAR THAT A FRENCH NUCLEAR SUB HAD A WRECK, FIRST OF ALL WHO KNEW THE FRENCH HAD ANY NUCLEAR WEAPONS, OBAMA LIED IN HIS CAMPAPIGN SPEECH OVER THERE.

joycey
you are turning a blind eye to alcohol as a drug.

it is classified as a drug and there are more problems in our society from alcohol than all other drugs combined.

do you know your history?

there is a reason prohibition did not work and that very prohibition is what caused the rise of american gangsters like al capone in the first place.

you say this

"You can't compare marijuana to caffeine or even a glass of wine. You don't get kind of high on drugs. You get high. There is a difference between having a glass of wine with your husband and a pothead."

that is a ridiculous statement.
there is no difference and if you think there is than you have your head in the sand.

one glass of wine and you get high just as much as a person smoking pot.

the only reason there is violence attached to drug use is because it is illegal.

take away the illegality of it and the profits and the violence will go away.

you are justifying your behavior of drinking as something different but they are the moral equivalents.

GunnyG-Eric-CLPKY-MPaddy-USNB-Others
TOO MUCH time and TOO MUCH of OUR money has been spent trying to stop the unstoppable. Legalize ALL of it, tax ALL of it and sell it ONLY in bars and ONLY to those 18 and older. Like Burt says, tax revenue will increase (at least in the short term) and crime will drop as the profit is GONE. Last but not least, ANYONE that is STUPID enough to snort, smoke or shoot themselves to death is a MORON and America is better off without them. JUST THINK about how many LIBERALS this will kill off! ANYTHING that kill offs LIBERALS is a GOOD THING for America.

Joycey - Mocha Marvin and libertarians
--
Write Joycey:

"Obama could win the Libertarian vote and spend the rest of his candidacy in happy land."


Nah. Remember, most of us American conservatives (read: "libertarians") care far more vehemently about how the Moolie Motherphucker invades our bedrooms and our bank accounts than what he lets us put in our bongs.

Besides, who ever said that he (or any other federal government "Malevolent Jobholder") ever had any power in law to criminalize drugs in the first place?

Read *A Drug War Carol* (online at http://www.adrugwarcarol.com/ADWC.php in its entirety) to get an accessible view of the history of this arrant, arrogant, aggravated stupidity in whole.


Meanwhile, Mr. Prelutsky, welcome to plain goddam common sense on this subject.

Consider also that ending the "War on Drugs" - in total - will also de-fund the Taliban and the Mexican drug cartels.

Leave off the taxes. They'll only perpetuate the incentive to smuggle.

No government price support program for illicit psychoactive substances means that dopers will be able to purchase their brain-blot for amounts so close to the margins of production and delivery that the profit structure in the criminal sector will collapse.

Interest parties are referred to Dr. Sowell's writings, especially on Say's Law.

--

How about Agent Orange?

I'm not a Chemist, but Agent Orange caused some kinds problems, so why not come up with some kind of a spray for the fields of drugs.

Make it something that will turn the users ear pink, or something else like that, and turn them lose.


Christianlib
For once, you and I agree on something.

I think what someone decides to put into their own body is their choice to make.

Besides, smoking a joint is really no different than smoking a cigarrette and having a shot or two of scotch (or whatever alcohol one prefers), a pastime that many people engage in across the land legally.

GT
Last but not least, ANYONE that is STUPID enough to snort, smoke or shoot themselves to death is a MORON

you forgot Drink :)

So the Government is going to work with
dems in charge? I've never heard anything so funny in my life. When Conservatives do drugs at least someone is shocked. When socialists do drugs........well let's just say it's expected.
Hey loopy big government never works no matter who runs it. You still have time to wake up. Open your eyes.

Of Course This Makes Sense
I have voted Republican in every election since I was eighteen, and never voted for a single tax increase - no matter how miniscule. (I will never do it againa dn am going to start voting libertarian and voting for secession when I move to Alaska in a couple of years).

I regularly use DMT and magic mushrooms in conjunction with my meditation practice. It is infuriating that compounds which grow in nature are illegal. In the case of DMT, it is produced in the human body. I would also use LSD if it was possible to get it. Since however, access to that compound involves being fairly enmeshed in the "drug culture", I don't know how to get it. (With mushrooms and DMT, I can either grow them in my home, or purchase organic ingredients off the internet and then extract the necessary compounds in a non-dangerous way with benign household products).

The war on drugs is just totally bizarre. There is nothing to show for it, it is a huge drain on resources and lives. It is totally irrational for so called conservatives to oppose legalization of drugs. What really needs to be allowed is to let the states decide what to do with drugs. When conservatives want the federal government to fight drugs, they cease to be conservatives because they want big government to accomodate their (usually religious) perspective.

christian lib
by the way there is no such thing


have you ever done drugs?

LEFT COAST LEADS THE WAY
Assemblyman Tom Ammiano (D) of (where else?) California is urging that marijuana, the state's largest crop, be legalized and taxed to help fill the state's budget shortfall.

With that reasoning, can Ammiano or some other left-headed left coaster be far behind in advocating the legalization of crack, crank, meth, heroin and other illegal drugs?

Speaking of drunks, Sophie,
who in Congress can hold a candle to Ted the Swimmer Kennedy and his son Patrick? Driving and killing people while drunk only seems to be a crime if one is not an elected Dem.

Medicinal pot, Sophie?
I am just surprised that California hasn't made morphine an over-the-counter drug.

oh yea summers
and burt is a liberal too.

do you think alcohol, nicotine and caffiene should be made illegal too.

those are harmful drugs.

i will take a pot head over an alcoholic any day and so would most americans.

Government doesn't work
To me,It seems You are the one who doesn't work.Your sister Nancy is doing such a great job along with your
brother Reid;why are you whining?

JimRed ( Another Plan... )


JimRed
Location: NJ
Reply # 71
Date: Feb 27, 2009 - 9:32 AM EST Legalize, decriminalize, or...
Legalization or decriminalization will just shift my tax dollars to the upkeep of those rendered unemployable by their drug induced haze. Will that be cheaper than policing and prisons, and result in neighborhood improvements? If so, I approve.

If not, just poison the stuff and put it back on the streets. Most of them will be gone in a few days; the rest will cold turkey real fast!

God forgive me for my lack of love for my neighbor.

~~~


Ah, yes. That would be most effective.

Still laughing here.


At the same time, we need to determine a way to manufacture 'Soylent Green' out of the waste.

I say this, because our food source will be that, and only that, in the near future.



joycey
my drug of choice when i was young was alcohol but when i saw the devastation it caused on peoples lives i quit.

i also did caffeine but when i got withdrawls when i didn't have it, i quit.

as far as Christian liberals, you are just as misinformed on that as you are on drugs.

i am liberal because i am a Christian.
i believe in the soul
i believe in John 3:16
i believe in faith and the power of prayer
i believe in the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost.
i believe that oswald acted alone.
i believe in the sweet sound of a basketball swishing through a net.
i believe Christians who judge other Christians are not reading their bible enough.

war on drugs
First off, I believe in freedom with responsibility. As a nurse I believe in doing no harm. I believe drugs are a harm I do not wish to experience the effects of or encourage in others.
I have seen the effects of drugs on lives of addicts, their friends and family, and the drain on society. The negative effects of drug abuse are spiritual, emotional and physical in nature. Ok many people can drink without becoming alcoholics. However, Heroin and Meth are different. One most definitely will become addicted, and very quickly. Do we really want
I believe this is a fight for people's lives and can't condone approving drug use.
Personally, I would be very scared if drug use was legalized. Is the pilot flying my plane high, is the driver heading for me incapacitated in any way, what about my doctor operating on me, what about the technician in my local nuclear plant responsible to keep it running safely? etc etc. How could safety be maintained? What would daily drug testing to ensure safety cost???? What would wasted lives cost us?
By the way, would you get rid of traffic laws and hope for survival of the fittest driver in the name of liberty?
We need some common sense restraints and laws to keep us a safe and a sane society.

I Agree
My attitude about such wars, as the war on drugs, is that you are trying to stop people from doing what they want to do, and no society has been able to stop people from doing what they want to do. Besides, like most efforts like this one, you are trying to solve one problem and creating another set of problems. So, the question to me is, is it worth the goal you are trying to achieve, when in the end you will not succeed. My answer is NO, it is not worth the effort. And I am a life long republican and a life long conservative.

WAR on drugs?

More like playing footsies with dangerous criminals.
We need realistic consequence for drug crimes.
We need a serious death penalty that does not let killers die of old age waiting for their last appeal.
We need to punish dealers for every drug OD, just as we would punish someone who poisoned someone for pay.

The reason we have criminals ignoring our laws is the penalties are a joke!

Murderers execute several victims every year.
How many murderers do we execute each year?
How many murderers do we release from prison each year?

Burt, Burt, Burt...

Luv ya, dude... but me thinks that you need to go back to bed and get some more sleep.

And yes, you did. You gave up.

And the rat is right. This "war" has been a total farce... just like so many other laws that are NOT enforced.

And others are also right, that it will open up a huge and a grotesque can of dangerous worms...

...of which our beloved gubmint will be in "charge".

Oh, perish the thought.

Zero stars.... but I still luv ya, dude.



Time to pull out


“. . . this particular war has already gone on longer than the ones in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq, put together . . . “

. . . Yes and it has been responsible for more deaths than all those wars combined.
That’s not hyperbole, read Dr. Mary Ruwart’s Healing our World.

Government doesn't work - when the GOP'
Government doesn't work with either in charge...

anyway i was the same way picked up cigarettes first then pot, quit pot easily it was 20 years later when i finally beat cigarettes.

Don't twist and turn, Sophie
You called Boehner a drunk. I simply pointed out that the Kennedy Klub belches its drunks out onto the streets with great regularity. Ted the Swimmer has set the bar (maybe a poor word choice) for drunks in 'public service'.

By the way, Sophie, what was bigger, Ted's tumor or his brain? Which one did the surgeon remove?

Government doesn't work
Take a look at yourself in the mirror;quit blaming everyone for all your woes.If this place is so bad,try China for awhile and see if you can spew all your dislike for their country.Good luck,but stay!

Yes legalize drugs
The drugs should be made available through our normal pharmacies by the government. The cost should be so low that it basically yields no incentive to other drug dealers to compete. The drugs would be purified, dosage controlled and packaged by Big Pharma with competitive bidding as the contract letting mechanism.

The money our government saves by suspending the war on drugs would be well spent by cutting taxes and reducing government spending.

Any crimes committed by a perp under the influence of drugs would carry a higher penalty. A law would be needed to absolve health care facilities from being compelled to use extreme measures to treat a drug user that had overdosed. Of course, if the family of the drug user were to present cash for services rendered the treatments could be provided.

Government doesn't work
That was probably your father the devil that did the whisper.
Try Jesus;he never fails!
Read John 3:1--36 KJV that is.
verse 16 and 36 may give you aclue.

Margaret writes
"Personally, I would be very scared if drug use was legalized. Is the pilot flying my plane high, is the driver heading for me incapacitated in any way, what about my doctor operating on me, what about the technician in my local nuclear plant responsible to keep it running safely? etc etc. How could safety be maintained? What would daily drug testing to ensure safety cost???? What would wasted lives cost us?"

Has the thought ever crossed you mind that the same people could be drunk?

Burt - Free Thinker
.
Marijuana should absolutely be legalized and restored to it's status as one of the great medicines of all times, cancer, bone crushing pain from the spine, in fact the oil of cannabis, not the smoke, is undoubtedly the greatest single medicine and curative power in the world today. We just are not being allowed to access it.

As for the other drugs, of natural origin, I am open to the question of their introduction into legalized possession and use.

Thanks you Burt for an eye opener. We all know you are a thinker and questioner of attitudes and their consequences of the most respected kind. And we respect you.
.

More drug users on the street
Please tell me how having more impaired people on the road and in the work place will help. There are people, believe it or not, who don't use because it's illegal and would if it were legal. Want your airline pilot or doctor high on pot?

No thanks.
America is becoming a sewer fast enough. No need to hurry the process along. I now have to avoid drunks, racist idiots, ill-educated morons & every manner of low-life that our freedoms insist I put up with -- and you want to toss druggies into the mix as acceptable life-forms?

Further, it's a false assumption that crime will decrease. Criminals are criminals. Drugs are only their medium of exchange in the present environment. Make drugs legal & they'll soon figure other ways of plying their trade. Maybe they'll then come to your neighborhood, Burt, and victimize you.
But one thing is certain: they won't have a sudden conversion to the straight life and go looking for a job.

You don't like the 'War on Drugs?' Think of the flip-side as the 'War on Civilization.' Surrender the one, promote the other.

To those who have never
smoked pot. Don't. You will become a pot-head. Life is boring most of the time and we need to learn how to deal with that. Pot makes everything more interesting. Which is very inticing to children. The problem is you must smoke more and more to get the same effect. So you become a pot head. Pot heads don't care about anything. Which may be tempting now that we are in such dire straits with OBAMA and his utopian dreams. But don't start. It sucks your life away and you loose all passion for life.

Richard