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I reckon you pushed the wrong buttons on that one responder. Anyway I see your point on the other forms of slavery that grip the minds and attitudes of people (especially children) and the historical analogy on American slavery you presented. Freedom is not a given, it must be fought for and preserved in every aspect of the meaning and application of the word.

You may have discovered this already, but you'll find that there are cliques on this web site: warning, creating followings, advising, and back ground email gossiping, just like any other serious blog site. If they like you, they'll patronize your article; they don't, they'll pass you by. So what. The important thing is that you state your mind and give anyone a chance to read what you think. That is freedom, and why I recommend for good thinkers and writers to blog and post on as many other independent sites as possible.

Reform, and finding new and better ways to help students break free of "conditioned mindsets" and develop freedom of thought in order to achieve their full potential was your main point. Although, 'fighting' is a fitting word. I don't recall anyone, anywhere, ever being free without a fight. An addict will fight the habit; a last place sporting team the stigma; and a physically challenged person the defect.

Anyway I just stopped by again after reading more of your blog; and as you shared, mostly educational oriented. Politics(especially hot off the press politics), finances, major events, and some theological discussions, are the main topics that drive TH blogs. Yet, most people are kind and will be appreciative of any creative input, including a squirrel's view.

P.S. Glad you took a Sabbath day. You are absolutely correct. The sabbath was created for man. God in His wisdom knows best. Not only does it relax the mind and the body when we take a day of rest, but it gets our minds off ourselves.

"And on the seventh day God ended his work which He had done, and on the seventh day He rested from all His work which He had done." Genesis 2:2

I want to thank you both for your kind comments. As I noted in my post, I like to have people comment on what I write. If I'm writing anything worthwhile, people won't always agree with what I write.

Everyonesfacts responded to what I wrote rather than to a few sentences or to his opinion of me. While he did not agree with what I wrote, he was willing to communicate. That's the kind of response I want.

From other things he has written, I also think that he is more in agreement with the concept of my post than he thinks. The word "slavery" is what pushed his buttons.

but how it was used "pushed my buttons"

Not as quickly as in more mechanized industries of the day I'll agree, but it was on its way out.

The share cropping system and implementation and enforcement
of Jim Crow policies show that slavery would have remained.
Left to their own devices it is probably that the CSA would
have imperialized to extend slavery and would have allowed
for the importation of slaves.

I think you missed my point [the difference between slaves and wage-slaves] here. I was contrasting working by choice with working under slavery.

I get your point, but neither want to work for “as little as possible”
And most students I know want the highest grades for doing a little or a lot.
There are some looking just to pass, but I doubt that is what is common
in your school.


“You'll note I wasn't arguing against compulsory schooling. These are children after all. I was simply pointing out that they are in school against their will and the system has encouraged many of them to pick up a helpless attitude.”

This is the crux of my disagreement. It is not the system as
I see it, but their home/family culture. Successful parents
do not let their children to adopt or maintain this attitude.


“Sure it's patronizing [that slaves need to learn to be free]. That doesn't mean it's not true. Look at what happens with many high school graduates when they leave for college. Outside the protection of family and the structure of family, many stupid choices are made.”

It has always been thus – one can read of students in the Middle
Ages wasting their lives. Maybe today it is more so?
And this does not really work for your argument, unless all of
a sudden college is a kind of freedom. College is a continuation
of the k-12 system.

“Call it what you want. Some people call it the poverty attitude. Some call it learned helplessness (normally my favorite). I was attempting to illustrate a concept. You've taken exception to my example.”

I have, because you chose a bad example.
If the article had been on “learned helplessness” the historical
Fallacies would not have entered into your post.



“Yes [slavery] was an international phenomenon, but not because people suddenly became altruistic and good. It became less "necessary" and so people had the luxury to fight it. I put "necessary" in quotes because I don't think it was ever truly necessary, but it was part of human culture and intertwined in most economic systems for thousands of year.”

Actually, both, the history of the abolitionist movement is a
history of altruism and goodness on behalf of others. And
Great Britain spent money destroying the slave trade which
did not help their treasury or trade. Agreed, it was never
necessary and it has existed for thousands of years.


“We're fighting human nature (yes, I'd rather read a book and drink a cup of coffee than try to improve my unit on Newton's Law of Motion -- I'm no different from the kids in that respect) [trying to teach skills].

Human nature has nothing to do with it. It does not even exist.

“However, we're also fighting "learned helplessness" or "slave attitude" or whatever you want to call it.”

Learned helplessness would be better if your history is going
to be inaccurate.

“Students have no buy-in.”

I think again this comes from the home. Students can enter the
fray of what should be taught at levels higher than the teacher.
Unfortunately, this nearly never happens. And what you get
is complaining. Democracies like school governance are slow
and boring processes, but this is where the fight should be if
one was a student who wanted to change curriculum. This did
happen at a school I taught at where high achieving students
wanted the ability to drop gym and computer classes in exchange
for taking AP and other courses that would be better for college.
(note the students were athletes and/or wanted to test out of the
computer courses). The process of trying to change the curriculum
requirements imho was the greatest lesson the students learned.

“In too many cases education is done to them rather than with them”

Possibly true. Home and school have to be on board and “in too many
cases” that is not the case

Although I do not like Gatto I do recommend his books as part
of the conversation about schooling.

Dear TH,
And it would be nice if one could write a long
response and no I do not want to start a blog.