Vietnam Redux

Just read your bio and I hope there are more like you out there.

Some great posts you have, I'll read them as I have time but liked the last two (which includes this one) very much.

WE won in Iraq? We paid off a whole lot of tribal leaders, ya mean.

Nothing like money...to forge a win.

So PDX, what's your prescription for winning in Afghanistan?

p.s.
[please stop usin the 'redux' label. it is sickeningly overused.

Let's see..... we deposed a mass murdering, terror sponsoring despot with WMD desires and programs, we occupied their country and oversaw the creation of a new government, and after only six years they are well on the way to stability and we are withdrawing our troops.

Of course a Democrat will naturally see that as a war lost, and it IS a war lost for them.

If a simple word makes coopmeister sick, then it's a good word.

We gave a nation the freedom to choose its own leadership and took out the majority of the extremist groups that would threaten such liberty.

The leftists are just complaining because it didn't cost over 50,000 American lives and we ended up winning.

Less just get everyone out..

"We gave a nation the freedom to choose its own leadership and took out the majority of the extremist groups that would threaten such liberty."
____________________

Riiiiiight.

We went over there to spread freedom and democracy.

Uh-huh.

And there's a tooth fairy and an Easter bunny.(I guess they're the ones hiding all the WMDs!)

We took out a majority of the "extremist" groups??

Are you referring to men who were defending their nation, women and children from foreign invaders??

I have more respect for them than your average wussified American male.

Proof? 30 million illegal Mexican invaders.

And where's the American male? Spreading freedom and democracy. Hahahahahah!! Don't you just love irony?

"Let's see..... we deposed a mass murdering, terror sponsoring despot..."
__________________


Number of Iraqis killed by American bombs and sanctions > number of Iraqis killed by Saddam Hussein.

But hey - if you're gonna make an omelette, you gotta break a few eggs, right?

"Less just get everyone out.."
_____________
I disagree. There's a lot of poppy in them their hills in Afghanistan, and without it, the CIA would be out of business.

How would they then be able to funnel any money to Wall Street?

Are you an anti-American communist or something?

I believe that was the date we announced our planned troop withdrawals from Iraq.

Funny. That was also the day the oil deals were finalized.(Look it up.)

I don't remember reading about that here on Townhall.

Funny.

Before we...ahem..."liberated"... Iraq, it was a modern, first-world country almost.

Now? A radioactive cesspool.

But we can't have that, can we? Too hard to demonize. And if we can't demonize them... how can we steal their resources?

With respect to Iran... same story. Their only crime? Trying to modernize.(Oh, and no longer wanting to accept increasingly worthless federal reserve notes for their oil. How dare they demand real money for their goods!!!!)

I'm a good conservative!

I honor our troops be sending them places they don't need to be to get their faces blown off!

Are you referring to men who were defending their nation, women and children from foreign invaders??

_______________

Ummmm..... yeah. Specifically, the ones who were repelling an invader by blowing up their own women and children in the local vegetable market.

But in Moshe's book, these lads were brave freedom fighters, cut from the mold of Thomas Jefferson. And the Iraqis who supported the removal of murderer Saddam and the new government, and who opposed the insurgency? Moshe sees them as traitors to a noble cause.

The leftists are just complaining because it didn't cost over 50,000 American lives and we ended up winning.

____________________

Yep. They love Vietnam because they won and America lost. Democrats haven't opposed a murdering despot since President Johnson.

Democrats ended up calling HIM the murdering despot because he committed the ultimate sin – believing that freedom is worth fighting for and that murdering dictators must be opposed.

BTW- note moshe's cookie cutter excuse for war: oil. They claimed Vietnam was for oil also. LOL. Iraq? Of course it was for oil.... even though we get very little of it from Iraq, and we pay fair market pries. We get less oil from Iraq than we get from many oil producing countries - including Canada and Mexico. Using moshe's logic, we should have invaded invaded and occupied them already.

Note the top 15 countries from whom we import oil, in descending order:
CANADA
SAUDI ARABIA
MEXICO
VENEZUELA
NIGERIA
BRAZIL
IRAQ
ANGOLA
COLOMBIA
RUSSIA
KUWAIT
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
ALGERIA
EQUATORIAL GUINEA
ECUADOR

Note how many of those we have invaded an occupied. OBVIOUSLY for the oil.

If we were after oil, we'd be drilling in the Baaken and ANWR fields right now!

We didn't go over there to spread freedom and democracy. We went to take down a dictator that had repeatedly violated the terms of a ceasefire agreement from 1991. The ceasefire agreement, which was signed by Saddam's government, laid out specific terms that his government had to abide by. If they violated those terms, we were obliged to reform the Desert Storm Coalition and resume hostilities until the Iraqi government was removed. We just upheld that agreement.

Most of the extremist groups that we were taking out were either based upon Saddam's Ba'ath Party or were operated under Iranian guidance. We repeatedly made it clear to the Iraqi people that we would help them rebuild and had no intention of taking over their nation. We have spent more of our money on rebuilding their infrastructure than we will get in oil over the next decade...and we will PAY for that oil!

your assertion that more Iraqis have died at American hands than died under Saddam's boot is way off the mark. As of about 14 months ago the total number of Iraqi civilian deaths was 116,616 (Brookings Iraq Index, whose latest report is available at: http://www.brookings.edu/saban/~/media/Files/Centers/Saban /Iraq%20Index/index20090820.pdf), and most of them were killed by Ba'ath Party folks, Iranian backed militias, and al-Sadr's Mahdi Army. Saddam's government killed over a million of its own citizens.

'nuff said

The left excuses Saddam's mass murder by explaining that it took a firm hand to hold together diverse ethnic groups which didn't like each other. (Mass murder is SUCH a unifier!)

And yet they angrily castigate the U.S. and blame us for every Iraqi who stubbed a toe in the past 6 years.

It is de regeur among America-haters that all deaths caused by our enemy are not their fault. Indeed, they are counted as victims of American imperialism.