DO THE AUTOMAKERS NEED ANOTHER HANDOUT

Expressed far too politely for my taste.

"This is allegedly a free-market economic system.

"If the car makers are too inefficient or incompetent to remain in business, they should be allowed to go bankrupt in accord with those principles.

"If unions are too greedy and stupid to see that they are contributing to the bankruptcies, then the members they will have ultimately failed will have to seek other jobs.

"The taxpayers should not be on the hook for financially bailing these fools out unless you're planning on distributing free cars as a result."


Now, THAT'S more along MY lines.

Befriend, beguile, and behold. Country first, or we will be even more socialized.

Excellent letter. And thanks for stopping by my place.

I once again find myself in agreement with BrianR~ Imagine that!! LOLOLOL (actually we agree on a lot of issues) What Unions have done to American manufacturing and education is a crime and now we have to bail out the auto industry THEY helped bankrupt? ANd then OUR tax dollars will go to the automaker's union employees via wages and then to Union dues? and to support extremly high pensions which I dont have myself? I cannot support this. Some type help may be neccessary as 2.5 million jobs at stake many in undustries that supply the autop makers but no, NOT a bailout with tacpayer money! Let the UNION step up to the plate with heavy cuts in benefits and rules etc

a alternative with the republicans as the heroe and not one taxpayer dime. The whole proposal puts the onus on the unions with the repub howing them how....not giving them anything.

Very well written Mildred...no holes in any of your suggestions.

Sadly, I find, when it comes to unions, government, politicians,...it always follow the money.

How long have they been asking for money to "fix" our schools? They get the money, and the schools get worse. They will never fix them...the union has ruined them, and the system employs too many single women.

They have decided (the elite of BOTH parties)to destroy us on purpose, in order to form a "New" system, OUR old system has been corrupted for a LOOOOOOOOG time. ANd they prefer dealing with a system like China.

I don't know how many CEO's on Charlie Rose say they HATE doing business here...too democratic.

They want a China here, and they will get it.

God help us if we don't fight back...but in a few short years, they will control all food, water, and they now control the banks.

They pretend it's all just "by chance"

Sure. I'm not hopeful.

And ditto Keys to the Right...

hat got us into this mess. It is time for us to rise up to the challenge an think outside of the box. The dems ere in our position in 05, and turned it around. We cannot leave this fight to the party. As citizens we owe it to ourselves t have our voices heard!!!!! If we offered hese alternatives, the we would not have had a banking bailout. We ned to take some personal responsibilty for our government. Conservative does not mean let someone else do it.
And thanks for stopping by.

Once again you have presented a very thoughtful case. We are now at the point of how much money does it take? Are the money presses overheated yet? Can I take those Benjis out of the oven? I remember way back in 1961, in grade school, talking about national resources and alternative energy. Conservation and electric cars. All our daddies wanted the big ones. So the auto industry built them with push-button drive! The truth is it all comes down to the Unions. My family background is blue-collar. My gramps was in the coal mines for 40 years and berated/hailed Tony Boyle on a daily basis. My uncs were heavy equipment operators, all hard working guys. The UAW has had the country over a barrel from the git-go. Beyond pensions, it`s the "free" healthcare that will get all of us in the end. Good post, Mildred!

free healthcare. This is about having the unions pull it out of their own poets and take persona resposibilty with republicansas the guide, not democrats as the answer. I wll carry out th fight on my own if necessary, but we all need to pull it together. That is how Obama did it, and we can bea him at his own game with a letter writing campaign. NOT ONE MORE DIME!
Thanks for stopping by.

Good post! How about no more unions? They strike over 40 cents. They strike when they have to pay $100 more per month for healthcare.

I think every person who works for a union should spend at least 2 years being self-employed and have to pay everything out of their own pocket. I guarantee they will have a totally different outlook on benefits. Every benefit they have is more money to their hourly wage or salary and they should remember that! When I've been there and paid over $1,200.00 per month in health care which doesn't include vision or dental and still have to pay co-pays from $30-$75 and hospital copays of $300/day I get tired of their whining! This also does not include prescription coverage! No vacation pay or sick pay either!

The Big 3 have had years of opportunity and high rolling to go with the flow for research and development. What I meant to say before is the demands of unions in the UAW have "bankrupted" and bled the auto industry for years! I am not a Union Buster because the men in my family have all been hardworking Union men. I don`t have all the answers but I know people deserve the pensions they have worked for. Health care accounts make a lot of sense to me. When I was working, I had the option of joining an HMO. I had a serious orthopedic injury and received excellent care and therapy from the HMO for over a year. People should be responsible for making the decisions regarding their own pensions, health care, etc. I definitely see your point, Mildred, we may soon be robbed of all options. Once again, an excellent topic of debate.

Excellent post! Thanks for stopping by my place....and I will definitely be frequenting yours for more important information.....thanks for the invitation.

How many more industries are going to ask for a bailout? We'll be so bankrupt in this country, we won't even be able to pay for our roads to have potholes fixed.

Personally I'm getting sick of hearing one day after the next, the next industry looking for a handout.

What will people have when they bring home their paychecks? Let's see, you make $400 a week and you get to bring home $40 after your taxes get paid for all the bailouts.

Gee that won't even buy groceries.


btw, new article up at my place.

"If unions provided welfare coverage, then as a bargaining agent, they have the ability to invest in an umbrella policy at a lower cost for catastrophic illness."

My younger sister used to talk about this type of program. She was an RN, and a good one. She passed away about 3 years ago; and I miss her alot (she was a kind and caring person, although she could be just as sarcastic as myself). My daughter went into respiratory therapy because of her.

The unions, I think, will not support this because it takes too much money out of their pockets. However, they should support it because it help's their position in dealing with companies. It also helps their members.

bailout. This is how trade unions have operated fo the last 70 years, with welfare funds that they support, not the employer. Trade unions work from job to job, not wih one employr. They make more money because they are skillled and carry the weight of their benefits through weekly contributions.

This is an opportunity for the republicans to show the auto industy how to remain solvent without being owned by the government.
Whe you look at Nancy Pelosi, you should visualize Ebeneezer Scroge gleefully singing "Mine, Mine, all Mine".

The point is to rally against the bailout nd provide other alternatives that provide the union a opportunity to work while the auto industry remains solvent.
The old saying The enemy(unemployment) of my enemy (Pelosi) is my friend. If the repubs provide a logical solution and oppoe another bailout, the tide will start to change.

I am may be alon, but I'll write to every republican (not RINO) senator and congressman that I can in order to not to make Pelosi's Christmas.

is that we talk the talk but don't walk the wlk. We need to organize and present our ideas to our republican representatives. We need alternatives tha make both sides happy an unhappy.

Do yo want to pay higher unemployment taxes so that unions can continue to cotrol voting blocks and be indebted to Democrats. It time we banned together and not sit around and talk.

I propose this as a ltter writing campaign to preserve our economy, encourage innovaive answers, and stop the bailouts.

Thanks for stopping by.

Did you join the forces with Bobbie and get on the email list so we can fight as a group?

I misunderstood your article I fear. The repubs we have now have no ideas so you're right we need to start that Idea campaign.

I only turned to blogs over the last 3 weeks out of desperation. I am stll learning this one between finishing gradutae school ( Done in Jan). Show me how and I'l follow up.

I am a former Business Agent of a large public employee union. Graduate of the George Meany Center for Labor Studies and descended from an Iron Workers President, and he from a USW leader.

Having said that, let me say that there is a huge disconnect between what you are proposing and the realities of the trade labor movement.

Labor unions are the embodiment of socialism and most of the real communists I have ever known I met in that capacity.

I understand what your trying to get at but it just doesn't work that way. Someone is going to pay for it and that someone is the consumer or taxpayer.

Labor unions brought about some needed reforms in business but they have long since out lived there usefulness. Individual responsibilty and freedom are far superior to turning to a giant collective for my prosperity.

Yes, we do mostly agree, Kev. That's a GOOD thing!

Mildred, I was primarily referring to style, of course, rather than the substance.

My point being that I think it's very nice that you're so polite.

I, on the other hand, am blunt. I don't think I'd be very good at the flowery Obambi-esque rhetoric.

Of course they must be paid off for services rendered.

WHEN was the last time that any of three automakers made a PROFIT?

Unions don't work and the steel, airline, and auto industry are proof positive.

I agree with Sgt...unions did some great work in the beginning, but money and power went to their heads ...they ruined the railroads and they have ruined the automobile industry.
Now they want the Dems to pass a law for open voting!! I don't undersstand why the Dems are even considering it, but maybe all the money contributed by the unions has them looking thru green-colored glasses.
So now is the time for those unions to do what is necessary to save the businesses they "serve" but I don't see them standing up to volunteer.
Maybe writing letters will help...I haven't found my letters convinced anyone...but I agree something should be done.

I apologize for misspelling Mildred. See I do know how...it's just my fingers which are stupid!

sit back and do nothing.

Sgt.
The trade unions remove the overhead of healthcare nd pensions from the industry, and it works. These are desparate times and rathr than expect handouts, the union must assume some accountability. Slf preservation should be ther concern,not forestang the inevitable.

Brian,
You get more flie with honey han with vinegar, besides...the Republicans should have more class than the Dems. Afterall, look at the hoodwinking that happened in Philly yesterday. And the result, more unemployment ad more public assistanc. The voters did not have all the information before they voted.

Gunny,
Unions don't work when they rech into everyone else's pocket. When they have to reach into their own, unions do work.

Rather than sit and kevetch, I'll do what I can and maybe someone can turn this into a small wind that eventuall turns the tide. In the meantime, the only inaction that I think was correct was not to bailout Wall Street. We supored the "common sense plan"

thanks.

an Economic Advisor. We have to do something and do it fast. Today, I sent to Martiez in Fl (7letters) from family members, 6 in NJ and I will continue.

I'm from a union family, but do not support the take, take, take attitude. Workplace advocacy is a wonderful thing....but the American people need to remember personal accountability & responsibility. If the unions were more vested in their health planning, they would be more realistic.

Look at Philly, these are state workers being furloughed and will be without essential services and on unemployment..... OBAMA knew i on Monay, and still let Rendell and the Philly machine lead them to slaughter. He was not honest Monday, and he is not honest today.

and thanks for viewing.
I just can't sit by and do nothing.

I am about to send to mine.

But 'Dear Congressman Waxman' at the head doesn't work at all. How about 'dear Senator Boxer'? There is not a single Republican elected official within fifteen miles of me. The ones that there are dont have the will to stand up against this anyway. Its all about Change and Change means that the Big Three become quasi-governmental jobs programs with the taxpayers (or the monetary printing presses)footing the bill.

Granholm as an economic advisor? I'll be under the freeway with my begging bowl if you need to get in touch with me...

I sent from my parent address, my Florida address, and here is nothing wrong with the US mail to send to arepublican rep. I used my work address to find a republican, and I did. I would not even consider sending to my democratic reps. I'll even use ou childrens addresses iArizona to contact McCain.
If Granholm is an economic adviser then I am the Virgin Mary.

SUPPORT! How can you buy "made in America" if America does not make it anymore? My next car was going to be a Chevy Hybrid, the Malibu....I don't want to buy an Korean car again. I want to reinvest in America Now that GM is into hybrids, I want one.
It is this kind of apathy that lost the Republican Party the election.If they went aftehe hispanic vote on Pro life iues, they would hae won. If they went into California's hispanic districts, Colorado's or New Mexico on prolife and pro family issues, they would have won. They need to go after the midde class with real proposals, not apathy, and the time to start is now.

I think as much as McCain attempted to appeal to the hispanic vote he fell short.

I was disappointed that abortion wasn't even on the table as an issue the way it has been in previous elections. With Obama's completely appalling take on abortion and determining when life starts being "above his pay grade" that should have been pounded onto the American people as a whole.

And yes, we all need to invest in American companies and American made products.

The last thing I need is my kid dying because he is playing with a Chinese made toy loaded with some sort of poison.

ourselves. We need to reinvest in American products. We need to protect our way of life. But we need to do it with responsible planning. If people have a vested interest in their future, instead of saying that "I worked for it", then they can grow it and appreciate it more. The same holds true for the benefits of organized labor and their benefits. You have look to the future and prepare for the changes and challenges of time.
What I suggest prepares the unions to provide for the future in healthcare for their employees If we go to the Obama Plan, there is great uncertainty that we will have any organized healthcare at al, and no real pensions for the workforce. If we work towards pride in ingenuity, we create and maintain more jobs in industry and healthcare and less government intervntion.

I live in the "air capital" of the nation and yet we can never get good flight connections. We have six major aircraft manufacturers here.

My biggest gripe is not so much with the Unions, it's with some of the people who complain that they aren't getting enough! We recently had one company on strike for two months over 40 cents per hour. This will take until Christmas to make up for the time wasted while they were striking. My Dad worked in the aircraft industry for 35 years. He was management not union, but he worked with union workers and with every job you have good workers along with the bad. You have some who will work and some who want to just show up.

Then the feds are bailing out every company that cries help. When the AIG failed I lost my job, so when I hear someone whine about 40 cents per hour or $100/mo over health insurance I have no sympathy. Just wanted to explain where I'm coming from. Before I was self employed for eight years and I already had my say on that. I don't want to offend anyone who works union.

The point of my letter is that unions need to take responsibility for their own health care and pensions and not look for handouts from the employer and the fderal government. We are talking about 3 separate unions that are coming to the table with the industry for yet another bailot from the government and they want ouble the money. The prior bailouts have not worked, so what is the likelihood another will work. If all issues remain the same, the industry will fail without concessions or changes.

Everyone is missing the point. If we change how the unions receive their benefits, thn the industry has a better chance of survival. By using the trade unions as a primary model, you make the auto union the stewards of their own healthcare and pensions, not he industry. That reduces financial responsiblity of the auto industry from executing health care and pensions, a substantial savings for the industry. This plan provides jobs within the union for union workers, and they contribute to their benefits. At the same time, if the industries become involved in creating healthcare cooperatives, then they cretae more jobs in healthcare and in the community. I could continue, but if everyone just balks at unions, we will not accomplish a single thing. Loo at Southwest Airlines after 9/11....they took paycuts and reduced pensions for self preservation. They also have more job satfaction.

We own a small business and I am in union. So I knw both sides of the coin. We live off of hubby's business and I provide the benefits. If ou look at companies like Lowes and Homedepot, not everyone ants a union, and if the card check passes, we will see these jobs disappear too.

There are many people in your situation, where one works self-employed and the other provides the benefits, one of my best friends has this situation. The benefit provider is facing cancer at this point and has excellent insurance, but how long will they carry them if their disease turns long term? What do they do? I know that's off-topic a bit. But these are things we don't prepare for, just like divorce, which I've been going through for months and my job was through our 'family' owned business. Then b4 that I owned my own company, I found a job, but that's the one I was referring to when the AIG failed.

What you say makes sense to me, make them be responsible for their own healthcare, they'll appreciate it MORE! You gave an excellent example in SW Airlines. Just make the cos responsible, not the taxpayers, it works for me!

write your republican representative ad do it in force. I too was divorced ad worked several jobs to make ends meet, and non were union.

Unions were not born to drain the corporate world, nor were they ever to be a politcal force. In other words, if churches and religiou groups cannot support politics without losing there nonprofit status, the same should apply to unions, especially those with welfare funds. Do you see the doubloe standard?

What I propose goes back to the fundamentals of unionization. Unions provide the healthcare through a prorated employee contribution. The hourly wage is the only negotiation the corporation sets, and basically the union set that standard. Corporatons employing unions should never be in the human resources or pension business. The trade unions exemplify this. Your union dues shoud do more than support the union execs and should never be used to support candidates. That is why you can contribute small amounts per pay to union PACs.

You ask about illness. When you are furloughed in a trade union, your welfare fund contiues to provide your healthcare., You pay into and receive unemploymet when eligible, so you still have a responsibility to pay your dues, which is less and still have benefits. Survivng spouses/families are part of the welfare fund.

As for automobile industries,you aretalking of 3 hugeunions with 3 different healthcare plans and pensions. Can you imagine the savings to cut the administrative fees negotated with both, and place the management aspect along with negotations between the unions and the insurers and the pension funds.

Kevin mentioned 2.5 mil employees X 12,000/yar per employee in benefits, you are talking 300,000,000,000 in one year. Bailouts have not built a more competitve car yet.

dial up here in Fl. And not used to all the typos. But, I think you get my message.

Thanks for doing some leg work for us. I am gonna send this one off Monday. I already called my Rep's office last week over the 401k possibility. Man it is going to be a busy term contacting Congress.

around. I appreciate you stopping by and recommend forwarding it to GOPAC for the support of rising GOP star Michael Steele.

If you read some of my responses, you will see how unions like Southwest stepped up to the plate and made a difference in America.

WRITE TO YOUR REPUBLICAN REPS OR GOPAC AND FIGHT THIS NOW.

UNIONS NEED TO FOLLOW THE SUCCESS OF TRADE UNIONS AND REMAIN INDEPENDENT. THE AUTO INDUSTRY SHOULD NOT BE IN THE PENSION, HEALTH, OR INSURANCE BUSINESS.

I know Boxer's voice mail was full the other day and so was Feinstein's. I think they are getting hammered with Prop 8.

Here is a question that maybe someone can answer for me. How did the car companies get here? Was it high gas prices? Unions? Taxes? Lack of designs? Are they suffering more in Michigan than in other states with plants? Are they suffering as much over seas? What exactly.

Over the last few months the government has been throwing money left and right. I have yet for anyone to really stand up and say, hey, how did we get here and how do we avoid this in the future? As we look for solutions, learn from mistakes.

I do give kudos to Senator McCain. During the third debate while talking about education, he made the statement (I am paraphasing here), why should we keep throwing money at something that does not work? It seems money is the solution for everything, but no one wants to admit the mistakes and understand how we got here.

Let's start in the 70s when the Japanese started selling their small and cheap foreign cars in the US. Everyone laughed and we continued to make big cars for more money. In the 70s and 80s we had 2 gas crisis and we started making smaller cars. But we were behind in the technology.
Toyota and Honda do not pay union wages or benefits in Japan, but they do here. Asisan cars are now more expensive but cost less to run and last longer. The US got drunk again when gas stayed inline with income buy producing SUVs and everyone had to have the gas guzzler. I had a woman whose 3 kids were on free lunch and breakfast at school, and she pulled up in a Hummer. In order to make smaller cars that are more efficient, an entire plant has to be fitted to produce a new car.
When you build a car, the price tag builds in the union wage, health insurance, life insurance, sick pay vacation pay,holiday pay, pension, and union dues, not to mention education benefits,union administration fees, and PAC contributions.
In the last 10 years, the only US company to take a cut n benefits was Ford, about 2 years ago.
NJ used to have a GM assembly plant and a Ford plant....not no more.

You have one union with 3 separate union arms. What you need is one union with one plan that they are responsible for. The best example is the trade unions that absorb their own administrative costs for the management of their health, life insurance and pension plans. We waste money becuase we pay the administrative costs for this through the nonunion employees that perform these functions...and of course the unions always want the bestand costliest versions instead of a welfare plan where they hae a good plan and the union pays the deductible to reduce the overall cost of the plan. If 3 unions consolidates they would get a lower group plan.
If the unions went for a higher deductible and used the welfare plan to cap the out of pocket expenses, they would lower the average cost because not everyone in the union has 2 or 3 hospitalizations in a year. Not everyone in the union needs a size fits allplan. And not everyone exercises good and healthy life behaviors, so they want everyone to pay for their chronic illness such as obesity high blood pressure, COPD, and heart disease.

One of the first things we have to do is get automakers and manufacturing out of the union business and return it to the unions where it belongs.
Industries and education absorb all of the clerical and management responsibilities of the unions. This country needs to return to the business of business and write the unions one check a week to administer to the needs of the worker. When they have to purchase healthcare and pensions, then they will be better stewards of their union, healthcare, life insurance, disability and pensions. They will also incorporate these costs into the union dues and relieve the industries of carrying the personnel costs to oversee it.
Trade unions operate in this fashion, leaving the contractors free of the bloated overhead of supporting these needs. In addition, they have the opportunity to go from contractor to contractor. he auto industry has proven that the highest paid employee does not make the best car.

As I told you, we sent out 7 letters from our Florida family this weekend. And we did not know that he was on the banking committee.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081110/ts_nm/us_autos_aid

THANKS for the info on Martinez I didnt know that either!!!

on our blog to get them emailing Martinez???????? Before we give the taxpayers money away, we need alternatives.

How about "Dear Mr. Representative". Please include a free SUV for each citizen helping with the bail out, and oh btw, an additional mortgage payoff bonus for everyone in the red on their home loans, and while we're at it, a free vacation to a high priced spa for each one of us too...after all, we want equality now that the dems are taking over...;)

I'll continue my list in our next correspondence...

Respectfully, your boss and the payer of your salary,

----- the Taxpayer

I amunion and it makes me crazy that these people can't think for themselves... and if we continue down this path, the country will be bankrupt.
Hubby is in a private practice, so you know that we are conservative. The point of my letter is to show how the oldest unions in our country survive and remain independent. Just so the country knows, farmers participate in healthcare cooperatives to help provide their health coverage, as does the fishing industry. Business is slow, but you don't see them crying and whining for a bailout. And with trade unions and these independent businesses, they continue to carry on as models for independence.

That is the entire point of my letter. We have options! And if the pensions reinvested in US Savings bonds, instead of Wall Street, they would always have money. As a tax exempt organization, they would not pay the capital gains either. STUPID, STUPID, STUPID!

Expansion of my quiz, actually an explanation and a comparison of the two that I was searching for. Stop by when you have the chance.

All your readers are welcome, this is a must see for ALL AMERICANS!

Thank you very much for all of that information. It was extremely informative.

Another handout, they just keep coming.

As for the Hummer, I have friends who walked away from their McMansions, but are still driving around in their BMW and MBZ SUVS.

want the bailout. Here is a take on the effects from the WSJ.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122628060458212379.html

Like anyone expected him to remember that he is not president yet. After stating that we can only have one president at a time, Obama is urging Bush to give not $25 Bil. to the auto industry , but give them $50 Bil. Bloomberg reports that otherwise, they will only be back in July. And heavens “No”, we can’t have the Messiah dealing with a crisis that might cause him to decide against his constituents, the unions.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/ablcucxr33jw

And I had to do a post on this too. Good job Mildred, stop by when you can....

I was thinking of doing more on this. Thanks for stopping by, and I'll be over between students. I am trying to get the kids vision and hearig tested before the NCLB and state mandated tests...we are an urban district.