Where is GOD?

..."The belief, based on reason, in a God who created the Universe and has since assumed no control over life, exerted no influence on nature, and given no supernatural revelation."




You stated that you experienced miracles and the power of prayer. Then what are miracles if not God's influence? Then what's the point of prayer if not asking for God's influence?

.....Good question ...I guess this is where faith comes in ...I can't explain it logically but I have faith that it works ...

.....I think that there is a power in the universe ...A Star Wars "Force" for lack of a better explanation ...that individuals of faith can tap into through prayer ...While God does not control all actions as a giant pupeteer in the sky ...he might influence outcomes through the power of positive thinking ...

.....I can't do any better than that but I am a believer because I have been a beneficiary of this power ...in ways that go far beyond incidental coincidence .....COLOSSUS

..it's the same explanation used by Edison and Napoleon Hill to name just two.

WHY would God create a world, fill it with humans, and then leave it alone?

The faith of Deism is not one that I can quite get a feel for; on the one hand there is a God that cared enough to create us and a world to sustain us, OTOH this same God sits back and does not intervene in His creation. That just seems to be unfulfilling to me, as this type of God would be of little use in a world where He is sorely needed. I see religion not just as man's quest for God, but as man's quest to KNOW God, as anyhting can become a god to you if you allow it.

Don't take this as a criticism of you or your faith, just my thoughts on the subject.

And I'm glad to be of a little help to you in getting things running here, and don't forget to plug away so that people come visit you! Shameless plugs are the way to go!

.....If I had all the answers I would be as omniscient as God ...the sum of my lifes experience has taught me how ignornat I am ...

.....I accept that there is a God and that prayer can have positive results ...beyond that I admit to total ignorance ...

.....I don't think that man will ever have all the answers ...not in this life anyway .....COLOSSUS

and we're very much on the same wavelength with what you've posted, although my reasoning leads me down a slightly different path.

Allow me to elaborate.

I think we arrive at the same conclusion regarding the existence of the Creator in a very similar fashion. I also agree with you that the quest for God is a fundamental, probably the fundamental IMHO, quest of human existence. Also, as per your answer to SC and Flag, it is obvious that man is not capable of having all the answers.

In fact, I would state that man, on his own, can ascertain nothing about God save that He exists and is the Creator. Sort of through a reversal of Descartes' first meditation: I know I exist, I did not create myself and therefore was created, hence there is a Creator.

I would, however, posit that the Act of Creation was a positive and therefore a benign act, and I draw the conclusion that the Creator is a benevolent one. Besides, if he isn't benevolent, then none of this is worth a d*mn anyway so far as I can tell.

Now, since the Creator is omniscient, by definition He knows what will happen in His creation before He creates it. Thus while he might not have directly pulled strings to create man, He knew man would be created. He would also know of man's quest and need for knowledge of the Divine, and man's almost complete inability to achieve that alone.

Therefore, drawing on my conclusion that the Creator is benevolent, I can only conclude that such benevolence would result in some sort of guidance to man on his quest. Since such guidance could only come from the Creator, it would thus necessarily be presented to man via revelations of some sort. Thus my conclusion that differs from yours is that revelation must necessarily be an intrinsic part of Creation.

Of course there's always the slight problem of trying to figure out exactly what constitutes Divine revelation. Is it a uniquely personal thing, found in our consciences? Or did He provide some pretty plain messages directly to prophets, holy men and others?

When I look at those religions that claim to be based on Divine revelation, which is pretty much all of them, and I return to my first principles, I find that Christ's teachings and Christianity is most compatible with my conception of a benevolent Creator.

There is a branch of Christian theology called Apologetics, which attempts to demonstrate the rationality of Christian faith and relate faith to facts. You're probably knowledgeable in it, but if you're interested Interface has a post that contains a pretty good introduction to it part-way down:

http://theinterface.townhall.com/g/26843ef3-5475-4e95-91b9-dca1b80d0712

I also have a slight quibble of a more philosophical nature if you wish to entertain it. We have an omniscient Creator. Therefore, by definition, He knew all aspects of Creation before He created it. Since He knew every aspect of Creation before it occurred, it seems to me that the Act of Creation caused everything that was to occur in Creation. Thus the idea of the Creator as first mover, i.e. a hands-off Creator, seems to me to be logically impossible, because the Act of Creation directly and purposefully lead to everything in it, even though the Creator is not a celestial puppeteer.

I couldn't help but notice you had the first post on Baseballdoc's first ever blog entry. You've quite outdone yourself; I doff my cap to you sir.

so glad you wrote it.

I think I'm a 'Deist' simply because I need to believe in God, and believe that Jesus taught us about a loving Father.

As to God's intervening or not - I think He set it all in motion and it's up to each of us to earn our way.

Very interesting reading. Congrats on the new blog. If you're going to continue, and if it's of this quality, I'll add you to my Blog Roll (what a signal honor, I'm sure). Let me know.

My path to my faith followed along the same lines as yours, interestingly enough, though I maintained my atheism/agnosticism through the war. My change came afterwards. Also, miracles, inexplicable phenomena, etc. Long and very cool story, for another time and place.

However, I didn't reach Deism, I concluded with general Christianity and a belief in the afterlife...all pretty traditional stuff.

I think of God as the Great Engineer (I'm an engineer, too, as I see you are). No sense building something if you don't tinker with it from time to time, so I do believe God can and does intervene as He sees fit.

I feel that given a good foundation we may stray and try to find answers but we always return. My life also took a few bad turns but I never questioned God. I feel He does not always give us what we ask but what we need at that time. He has never been wrong ,even when I questioned my decisions, they were what I later found to be the right choices for that time in my life and the lesson I was to learn.
God Bless You.
(We just moved to Montana from N. Richland Hills) My nephew Will Gilbert used to live in Whitesboro.

I thoroughly enjoyed reading this essay and look forward to others. I see many parallels to my own journey in the quest to know God.

Keep up the good work. BTW, I always enjoy your comments on the TH columns. I seldom comment myself but enjoy reading others' comments.

I really like your essay. I have never truly have had my faith shaken, but I learn from those who have. Please keep writing.

Hi BBdoc: great to see that you finally started your own blog !!!


Remember Animal Girl ?? she has her own also
" leaning left" I haven't been there in awhile so I am not sure how often she posts . Last time she said she was sick of the mean posters on townhall. (Again )

How many observe Christ's birth-day! How few, his precepts! O! 'tis easier to keep Holidays than Commandments."

-- Benjamin Franklin

"It is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such homage, and such only, as he believes to be acceptable to him. This duty is precedent both in order of time and degree of obligation, to the claims of Civil Society. Before any man can be considered as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe."

-- James Madison

Benjamin Franklin

1I have lived, Sir, a long time; and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this Truth, that God governs in the Affairs of Men. And if a Sparrow cannot fall to the Ground without his Notice, is it probable that an Empire can rise without his Aid?


Thomas Jefferson

And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever.

".....Logic tells me that there is a Creator (God) because the Universe and life are far too complex to exist without an "Intelligent Designer" ...when I pray ...I pray to this Creator ..."

If complexity requires creation, then we are created by a complex being, by a simple being or by a being of equal complexity? If we are created by a simple being then your statement is false. If we are created by a being of equal complexity then your statement may be false. We can only safely assume that the Creator is a more complex system.

So, is it possible that an infinitely complex being could exist?

According to your statement complex systems must be created, so we can assume that an infinitely complex being cannot be created because nothing is more complex than an infinitely complex system and that infinitely complex system, having no creator could never exist.

So, we can reason the Creator is more complex than a human being, but not infinitely complex. Any one Creator is, therefore, both finitely complex and was designed by a Creator.

So, your logic tells us that there are an infinite number of finitely complex Creators and that you arbitrarily pray to one of those beings. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Why is there a need for an infinite number of unceasingly complex beings to create a finite number of human beings? The simpler explanation is that complex systems are made up of less complex systems and less complex systems are formed by combining even simpler systems. If we accept this premise there is no longer a need for a Creator.

.....To acept your premise I would have to believe that life is eternal and thus needed no Creator ...it is easier for me to believe that the Creator is eternal ...

.....There are many concepts that are beyond man's reasoning power ...time itself is a man made concept ...time measures movement between two points ...if all motion ceased, even Atomic ...then there would be no time ...can you grasp that concept? .....COLOSSUS