Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
Login | What's Hot
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons

Comment on: ANTI-LIBERAL ZONE

Oh Where, Oh Where has my BAILOUT GONE?

62 Comments
Saturday, November, 29, 2008 2:49 PM The Crawfish writes:

The wages and benefits

of being a union stooge are far better than what us poor uneducated schmucks in the military get.

We risk our lives for our nation, while union stooges only risk a possible DWI after boozing it up at their lavish union halls.

Send 'em to Iran!
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Saturday, November, 29, 2008 4:27 PM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

The Crawfish

Even better...BUST UP THE UNIONS!

Union bosses have to go back to work and earn a REAL LIVING!
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Saturday, November, 29, 2008 5:21 PM Navyvet writes:

The Golden Goose

This is same as the old story of the people who had the goose that laid golden eggs. They got so greedy and demanded that the goose lay more eggs and more eggs and more eggs, that they finally killed the Golden Goose. This is EXACTLY what happened to the Big Three.
Same with the iron mines in Northern Minn 30 years ago. The union threatened to shut down the mines if the company didnt give them what they wanted. They are still waiting, and still strong union members. They vote Communist every time becasue naturally they are on welfare. Gimmie Gimmie.
Same same same in So. St. Paul MN packing plants. They shut them down 25 years ago. They were going to teach their employers a lesson. Now it's "Do you want fries with that burger." (Note the meat for that burger is made some place else.)
They never learn. Who says they are dumb?
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Saturday, November, 29, 2008 5:30 PM clyde writes:

Gunny

I have a few posts at CK Hustler's blog about this subject. With the last UAW contract,the UAW takes on the hc.and pensions. Do THEY have the money for it? How about the Detroit 3? No? They were going to fund this primarily with Detroit 3 stock. We KNOW how much that is worth.THAT is why this bailout is for the UAW. The PBGC is saying the Detroit 3's funding request is WAY below the h.c. and pension benefits that are supposed to be funded NOW. This does not take into account the LATEST rounds of early retirements and buy-outs. CHAPTER 11 BANKRUPTCY. It is the ONLY way the idiots are going to get out from under that which THEY put themselves under. NO ONE held a gun to these automakers heads to sign contracts they KNEW FULL WELL they could not afford. Let'em sink. NO BAILOUT,NO WAY.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Saturday, November, 29, 2008 5:34 PM clyde writes:

Gunny

BTW,since WHEN do we bail out a PRIVATELY-HELD company,as in the case of Chrysler, with tax-payer funds? Cerberus wanted this basket-case,scruem,let them sink with it.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Saturday, November, 29, 2008 6:43 PM caday5 writes:

The problem here

is that the gov't has been bailing out our companies, via the Pentagon and other mechanisms, for years. These bailouts implemented the redistribution of wealth from the general public to selected targets in the private sector. So this redistribution consisted of the consolidation of wealth. This consolidation has happened to the point of reducing the number of viable consumers--and thus we had the collapse of the housing market

However flawed, what unions accomplish is the spreading rather than the consolidation of wealth. Do they ever ask for too much compensation? Certainly. But those who are without union representation are more vulnerable and thus tend to be subject to more abuse.

It is odd that that those who would stress self-reliance and the pick yourself up by the bootstraps would complain about legacy costs and not say a word about CEO compensation or the return stockholders receive. After all, it is the union member who does the actual work, not the stockholder. And when you compare the pay per person for the ceo and other execs vs the pay per union laborer, the pay for ceo and execs add far more to the cost of each car than that added by a union member. Add to that, ask yourself what kind of message we preach when we are far more concerned with the plight of the stockholder than we are the laborer?
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Saturday, November, 29, 2008 7:14 PM clyde writes:

caday

Don't even start with that crap.We've had that discussion. Irrelevant. I will give you these executive salaries,perks and bonuses, need to be brought a LOT closer in line to the actual performance of the company. caday,if profit is so obscene to people like you,and take shareholders (like myself,little disclaimer here)out of the picture,JUST WHERE do you think the MONEY is going to come from to provide for new tooling,plants,vehicle development,etc? This stuff is NOT CHEAP. Little bit of info may help you with your shareholder problem. You have a 401k ? IRA? Own mutual fund shares? Employer-paid pension plan? Know anyone who does? You do understand that most of these investments are capital-market driven. So you would like to see those who have saved for retirement in this manner lose it all? I seriously doubt there is enough money around to provide Soc.Sec. as the ONLY means of retirement income for the MILLIONS of people who have become part of the investor class. The same people who believe there will be NO Soc. Sec. for them when they do finally get to retire. While the markets may be down for now,I STILL would much rather depend on THAT strategy than the government.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Saturday, November, 29, 2008 8:07 PM CKHustler writes:

caday5

"It is odd that that those who would stress self-reliance and the pick yourself up by the bootstraps would complain about legacy costs and not say a word about CEO compensation or the return stockholders receive. After all, it is the union member who does the actual work, not the stockholder. And when you compare the pay per person for the ceo and other execs vs the pay per union laborer, the pay for ceo and execs add far more to the cost of each car than that added by a union member. Add to that, ask yourself what kind of message we preach when we are far more concerned with the plight of the stockholder than we are the laborer?"

You playing the victim card here? Sounds to me that you don't think quality of work should matter. It sure doesn't to unions. Do you think some guy just woke up some day and he was a CEO? People work to get where they are. I hope that someday I can be the CEO of a large company and I would like to be compensated for working my way up. Otherwise where is the incentive? Why risk anything? Just make 1 widget per day in a union and all is good right? Making 2 will only cause you more stress and you won't make a dime more. Don't compensate share holders and nobody will buy any shares. You are so completely ignorant of how the market works.

Unions are the link to communism in a capitalism society. Just look at the quality of teachers we have. Home-schooled students do better. If we had no teachers union, would we have better teachers? Well, lets ask the private schools who seem to turn out much better students, without the unions.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Saturday, November, 29, 2008 8:41 PM The Godfather I writes:

Buyout BS

They had to have this money three weeks ago or 3 millon jobs would go down the tubes and we'd be in the middle of a depression. What happened? They haven't gotten any money but they're still in business.

BTW I go past a Best Buy yesterday and there are people standing on line that streches around a long city block because the store is so crowed they can't let any more people in. There is nothing in Best Buy that you can eat, wear or use to heat your home. The libstain media is trying to tell us that well people are going to the stores but not buying. The MSM remind me of the guy whose wife caught him in be with another woman. He turns to his wife and says. "Honey are you going to believe me or your own eyes."
This whole worst ecomony since the great depression is a media storty that is just BS.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Saturday, November, 29, 2008 9:53 PM Steve writes:

Comments

Dear Clyde & CK: You KNEW that Caddy was going to say that, huh? That myth is the perennial liberal excuse for socialism. They nearly always have to draw a false moral equivalence to justify their steps to a controlled economy- and just about every other item of their agenda- to gain it acceptance. It's sometimes referred to as the "You're another" ploy.

Dear GunnyG:

Back in the 1980's, I used to tool around in an AMC Pacer... which my buddies snidely referred to as my "Moon Buggy". Like all AMC vehicles, it tended to rattle a bit. But the mileage was good, it had a low center of gravity, excellent visibility and was practically invulnerable to flooding out. Even Al Gore might have approved! Now... who bailed out American Motors? Didn't happen.

It's amazing to me that the liberals squeal about corporate overhead while failing to address the real problem... labor overhead. CEOs travelling to Washington with their hands out (via Algore Airlines!) was both arrogant and stupid. But, compared to the Union bosses, these guys are country cousins. The unions have all but killed the goose that laid the golden egg with their extortion of the auto industry. Now, seeing their folly bearing fruit, their Washington lackeys are trying to stiff the entire nation to keep the gravy train going. Now... who's going to bail out America when the bill comes due?
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Saturday, November, 29, 2008 10:14 PM clyde writes:

Steve

No,Steve,I would not have given a thought to what caday would have said. Must be he just wanted to see what kind of response he could get.It would be a shame IF he were to be truly this ignorant of how capitalism actually works.Not surprized he opposes it,or seems to,given his views on other subjects.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Sunday, November, 30, 2008 2:22 AM CKHustler writes:

Steve

Yea, I suppose if I thought what Caday would say I could just pull what he said out of Karl Marx handbook for communism. Its about equality, not success. Its about keeping everyone down on a level playing field instead of rewarding those who take risks. These liberals would rather everyone in poverty than half in poverty and half successful. At least everyone is equal right?
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Sunday, November, 30, 2008 7:50 AM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

Navyvet

"This is EXACTLY what happened to the Big Three."

You're exactly right. About two years ago, a commerical was being filmed in NYC and the union thugswhined that half of the crew was non-union. They b*tched so much until the company filming the commercial LEFT NYC for another. So all of them were now out of a job.

They live in a nanny state and have for 70 years!
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Sunday, November, 30, 2008 7:56 AM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

clyde

I agree. There should be NO BAILOUT of of ANY COMPANY that cannot hack it. That is what chapter 11 is for as you say.

Now the liberals want to take the secret ballot AWAY from "workers" when it comes to unionizing or not. I expect a lot of small businesses will just go under and restart again somewhere else.

BTW, WE can't use a secret ballot but yet, it's okay for Congress to use one!
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Sunday, November, 30, 2008 7:58 AM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

caday5

You get the award for the BEST PARROT. In all my years of attacking the false god of liberalism, I have yet to meet anyone like you, you spout the same nonsense no matter WHAT the subject.

Well done.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Sunday, November, 30, 2008 8:01 AM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

clyde

I told the wife at the outset of ALL of this nonsense that it would get worse and worse. Now we've got states asking for a bailout, and a few
private companies.

Unfortunately, in the Gunny G household, we pay our bills on time so we don't qualify for a bailout.

Socialism = rewarding failure with the efforts of others.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Sunday, November, 30, 2008 8:03 AM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

The Godfather I

BINGO!

I was reading an article yesterday where it stated that a huge amount of people in world now see globull warming as complete bullsh*t!

We're FINALLY waking up to the lies of the politicians.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Sunday, November, 30, 2008 8:05 AM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

Steve

Great question.

Here's the answer. The ones proposing this scam on the American people will be out of office and dead when the bill comes due. So they don't care. It's bread and circuses.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Sunday, November, 30, 2008 12:15 PM beachmom writes:

Michigan is

a closed shop state.
It is the law they have to be unionized and to work there you have to become a member of the union.
The domestic foreign companies like Toyota, et al are in open shop states. They have the choice of whether to unionize or not and the workers have the choice of being a member or not.
That is one of the big reasons the "Big 3" are having such problems and have been having these same problems for the past 30+ yrs.
The only difference now is that the lib dems owe so much to the unions that they are being called on for the payback and the lib dems are concocting these "too big to fail" lines in order to justify handing these car companies our money.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Sunday, November, 30, 2008 1:49 PM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

beachmom

What cracks me up is that the lib think that we'e so stupid that we can't figure out WHY they're doing it! More likey, they don't CARE that we know why.

I should be a member of Congress and take Piglosi to the wood shed on this.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Sunday, November, 30, 2008 2:11 PM Steve writes:

Comments

Dear Clyde: It's not ignorance on Caddy's part. Just an obsessive, engrained mental state which leads liberals to seek the overthrow of America.

Dear CKHustler: Everyone in misery EXCEPT the elite Mentors who manipulate them for the sake of their own (deserved!) privileges.

Dear GunnyG: It was a rhetorical question! LOL.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Sunday, November, 30, 2008 4:51 PM clyde writes:

Steve

I believe you have nailed it.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Sunday, November, 30, 2008 7:56 PM caday5 writes:

clyde

Again, when the emphasis is on owning stocks the deemphasis is on work. The problem is that we reduced the state of stock holders rather than looking at the whole picture.

Yous guys are the first to complain that the poor don't take responsibility for their plight and work their way out of it. And yet, the kind of economy you support is one that takes advantage of workers while protecting those who benefit from the work of others. This is a mixed message at best.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Sunday, November, 30, 2008 7:58 PM caday5 writes:

Gunny

And you should congratulate yourself for being consistent. You constantly answer by name calling rather than using facts and logic.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Sunday, November, 30, 2008 9:36 PM clyde writes:

caday

It truly saddens me to see the level of absolute ignorance you have displayed here. HOW on earth do you suppose I,or most others similar to me, had the money to acquire said shares? The 12+ hour workdays,sometimes 7 days a week,away from home 300+ days a year,along with not being there for my wife and 3 stepdaughters when they needed me,with the exception of the phone. A lot of sacrifice,caday,being one of the "workers" you claim to care so much about. You want to talk about poor,caday,I've been there as well. I worked my azs off to make damn sure I would not stay there. If I can do that,anyone else can as well. Not all of us were born with the silver spoon in our yaps,caday. Just to make you feel better,caday,our portfolio has dropped from a value of approximately $5,780,000 today is worth a tad over 3mil at this point. Not complaining,just explaining.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Sunday, November, 30, 2008 9:42 PM Steve writes:

Dear Caddy

Like a true socialist, you tell us that it's either stockholding or job performance. Why not both? What is it about owning a piece of a company that, in your world, automatically degrades one's work ethic? Presuming, of course, that it was ever there! In fact, aren't people inclined to work harder and better on an average if they have a stake in their company's future... and a voice to go with it? This is the key factor of a free economy... and it's called "personal incentive".

What you're attempting to do is continue the labor vs. management, "class warfare" strategy that the unions have traditionally forwarded. It's also an attitude rooted in the social conditions of the 19th Century, not the 21st. Things have changed. In fact, since the passage of the Taft-Hartley Act, the need for unions largely vanished.

The real "economic democracy" is not a Fonda-istic, limp-wristed bolschevism, but a free and open corporate structure where businesses, large and small, can compete and prosper; the government's role being confined to enforcing a few, necessary "rules of engagement". When this is allowed to flourish, the economy does well. When parasites infest it (GSEs and Big Labor), it collapses from exsanguination.

This is what has occurred recently. And liberals did it. And they did it to, 1) enrich themselves and, 2) to gain power fraudulently so as to establish a fixed social order that favors themselves.

It is to this process, Caddy, that you subscribe.

EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Sunday, November, 30, 2008 9:51 PM Steve writes:

Dear Clyde

Sorry to hear about your loss. I couldn't even conceive of having that much in assets, much less losing it. Let's hope that, somehow, we can get some sanity back into the economy and Marxists right back out. God bless.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Sunday, November, 30, 2008 9:53 PM Steve writes:

Dear Caddy

As per your comment to GunnyG: You congratulate YOURSELF by attributing to yourself facts and logic in the first place.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Sunday, November, 30, 2008 10:38 PM caday5 writes:

Steve

Who is the personal incentive for, the worker or the owner? Why not have personal incentive for both? Because when the bottom line is the only line, giving personal incentive to the worker can work against the immediate interests of the owner.

It seems that what you want is a privileged society for the owner. The owner can join with others and we call it globalization and growth. But why be against the worker form uniting?

And btw, Steve, I don't spend my time insulting others like some here. I try to focus on logic and facts and how well I succeed can can be determined empirically.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Sunday, November, 30, 2008 10:38 PM caday5 writes:

clyde

Why do the interests of the owners have to oppose the interests of the workers?
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Sunday, November, 30, 2008 11:16 PM clyde writes:

caday

BOTH parties need to realize the benefits of the relationship,caday.I have always maintained it is too bad labor and management had to be at loggerheads with each other. Totally unneccessary,and counter-productive. I began acquiring stock in the company I was employed at around 1982 WHILE a member of the Teamsters Union. It was my contention that if I had a personal stake in the success of the venture,THAT would make me a better employee. In the auto transport business,caday, the name of the game was to haul as many vehicles as possible without tearing them up.On VERY EXPENSIVE equipment. Far too many of my fellow employees did not give a ratz rear about damaging a unit,nor about damaging their equipment due to carelessness. One guy cracked to another that tearing up a car didn't mean a thing,they build 60 of them an hour. f it,drive on. That type of thinking is in no small part what has brought a number of these companies to their knees. The "I'm only here for my check" attitude changes FAST when you realize YOUR money is at stake as well.NOT only as a shareholder,but as an employee as well.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Sunday, November, 30, 2008 11:22 PM clyde writes:

Steve

Thanks,but we knew full well that investing has a number of risks. Most of the losses have come in one of our managed asset portfolios,which the only thing we could have done was pull completely out. We had been doing fairly well,but the one firm had quite a bit of financial stocks,among them Fannie Mae,Countrywide,Lehman Bros.,among others. I'm sure that in time we will recoup most of our losses,but that's just the way the cookie crumbles,eh?
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Sunday, November, 30, 2008 11:31 PM clyde writes:

Gunny

Isn't it about time for AHOTY nominations? Got a GREAT field to choose from this year!
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Monday, December, 01, 2008 12:27 AM steve writes:

ok, Gunny

This is red meat. The unions need to be brought into a system that balances cost of living against the earnings of the workers.

But wait, we have that - it's called poverty.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Monday, December, 01, 2008 6:48 AM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

caday5

You constantly answer by name calling rather than using facts and logic.

When you finally POST something factual and logical, I'll answer it. You just keep puking up the same old Chumpsky pablum!
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Monday, December, 01, 2008 6:51 AM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

clyde

GREAT REPLY TO CADAY5!

I came from a lower middle class family and had FIVE siblings! We ALL worked our butts off, two of us went into the service, and NONE of us took a free ride. All five of us are professionals and one of my siblings is back in college for her MA at FIFTY!

It's funny, those of us who work hard for what we have fight the hardest to retain it! caday5 is a redistribution lover which says a lot of him and his ilk.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Monday, December, 01, 2008 6:52 AM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

clyde

AHOTY: caday5, stephen, or steve will be battling it out! haha. In any event, it'll only be to see who is in first place!
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Monday, December, 01, 2008 6:53 AM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

steve

Yeah, milk the cow until the cow dies. Smart thinking.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Monday, December, 01, 2008 6:55 AM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

clyde

That sucks about your loss. We took a 50K hit in the real estate market with an investment. Our company foreclosed on it but now what? Wait for a buyer. But that is life and as you say, we knew the risks.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Monday, December, 01, 2008 2:13 PM caday5 writes:

Gunny

Document your claim.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Monday, December, 01, 2008 10:04 PM steve writes:

gunny

aside from your neocon compensation chart, I think you make some great points. The problem with these guys is that the "tenured" - I sure wish I could get tenure - workers are bulletproof, while the younger/newer workers are making WalMart wages. That dichotomy is not sustainable (obviously since they're asking for billions of our money). So, lets get them to void those old contracts and get back to reality. The unions have their place, but the excesses of the 50's and 60's and current practices ("man-along" for contract workers etc.) are outdated and fraudulent to those who want to by an American car without getting screwed with a piece of garbage.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Monday, December, 01, 2008 10:17 PM The Crawfish writes:

what happened?

I know there were newer posts than this one at the Anti Liberal Zone earlier today......

Anyway, new edition of The Weekly Claw is up.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Monday, December, 01, 2008 11:06 PM Devil Dog 0313 writes:

Gunny

How could they possibly compete w/ foreign auto manufacturers with the albatross of the unions hanging about their neck ? Hearings by Congress on Big Three bailout= Dog & Pony Show. What a bunch of douch* bags !!!

Gunny check out this article about BHO. I laughed my as* off so hard that I began caughing uncontrollably.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1090653/B arack-Obama-buy-rare-20-000-gold-ring-wife-saythanks-suppor t.html
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Monday, December, 01, 2008 11:10 PM Devil Dog 0313 writes:

Hey Crawfish

I'm glad you said something about that because I had noticed the same but thought maybe I just consumed to much coffee.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Monday, December, 01, 2008 11:33 PM Georgetwin writes:

GunnyG

New Post at My Place!
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Tuesday, December, 02, 2008 12:43 AM max writes:

Hey GunnyG!

Is there any progress or update on our SUPREME COURT BIRTH CERTIFICATE CASE???????????????

I promise this will be HUGE!
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Tuesday, December, 02, 2008 6:25 AM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

steve

I think H*LL just froze over. We agree on something!

My main point is that as a "worker" as the libs refer to us now, if one keeps their job skills up and shows a good work ethic, where is the fear of losing one's job?

Also, there are numerous State and Fed laws that protect workers so IMHO, unions are obsolete and should be done away with.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Tuesday, December, 02, 2008 6:28 AM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

Devil Dog 0313

THAT IS CREEPY!

Their whole marriage is creepy as far as I am concerned. The whisking of his wife and kids off stage at his victory speech was weird. The dude is skewed in the head and we're gonna all find out the hard way that the morons elected a pig in a poke.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Tuesday, December, 02, 2008 6:29 AM Gunny "knuckles" G© writes:

Devil Dog/Crawfish

I nuked them. I'm trying to condense the pages and recently went through and nuked a lot of stuff that was outdated, etc.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Tuesday, December, 02, 2008 6:54 AM Steve writes:

Comments

Dear Caddy: Doesn't an owner have a few rights, too? The right of private property is a cornerstone of any free society. Socialists know this as well as anyone. Hence, their hostility.

Dear Clyde: I admire your equanimity. Personally, I'd be fighting an urge to go after these guys with a meat axe! Unfortunately (?), that's impossible, as so many of them are now on Obama's staff and protected by the Secret Service. Ain't no justice!

Dear Max (et al): For more on the Obama citizenship question, go to WND.com. They've been on the issue since Day One. And-Sign-The-Petition! It's well over 100,000 and growing fast.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Tuesday, December, 02, 2008 7:32 AM caday5 writes:

Steve

Some totalitarian socialists are hostile but not all socialists are totalitarian or even hostile to private property.

Martin Luther King's comparison of Communism and Capitalism provides an example here. King commented that what Communism forgets is that people are individuals and what capitalism forgets is that life is social. So he concluded that we need a synthesis between the two.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Wednesday, December, 03, 2008 7:48 AM Peppermint2 writes:

Gee, where is my

UAW job? LOL!

Who wouldn't like this setup?

Bust the unions is the ticket, but not to be expected by the dims. We all know where their bread is buttered. Most likely we'll end up paying for this.

I'm already bent over.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Wednesday, December, 03, 2008 1:53 PM buck writes:

It's The People

The folks carry on this, "I get mine and to heck with you" attitude.

It is with congress critters. They KNOW their congressman is corrupt. But he brings them money from other districts' pockets.

Just like Murtha. He called HIS constituents Redneck and Racist. And they re-elected him anyway.
Talk about prostitution in reverse.

I have a friend who works for the airlines. When you try to tell him the union is what got his job in jeopardy he gets red in the face. When you tell him Bush was not responsible for the economic downturn he starts frothing at the mouth..He doesn't care that the unions are breaking the airlines as long as he collects his $37.50 plus 'bennies'...
He votes for Obama because he hates Bush so much he would rather deliver our country into the hands of a Marxist than someone in the same party as Bush....
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Friday, December, 05, 2008 6:42 AM Steve writes:

Dear Caddy

Synthesis?! There can be no synthesis. No "third way". Either there is a free society where private ownership is respected and God is exalted above Man... or there's not. The very concept of socialism carries with it the seeds of oligarchy, depravity and downfall.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Friday, December, 05, 2008 11:44 AM caday5 writes:

Steve

I find it odd that a man of the clothe who fought for equality could see the need for a synthesis between the two, you speak so confidently saying that there could be no such synthesis. Let's look at a few of your points.

First, private ownership and where God is exalted above men are independent of each other. In fact, you will find at the end of Acts 4, a community where God was exalted far more than He ever was in America and yet no one claimed private property.

Second, private property is not done away with in all forms of socialism.

Third, exalting private property to the point of denying our responsibilities to our communities is not a way of exalting God.

Fourth, exalting private property to the point of denying that we are our brother's keep is also not a way of exalting God.

Fifth, the socialism that our country covertly committed murder to battle in Latin America during the 1980s was led by those who exalted God.

Sixth, socialism does not rule out freedom. Sweden is socialistic and free. Nicaragua was, during the 80s, and is now both.

Seventh, capitalism doesn't rule out oligarchy, especially when the elected officials are bought by the elite. THat our leaders constantly ignore the wishes of the majority of the people to pursue policies that benefit the rich indicates that is the case for our country.

Finally, both capitalism and socialism have their tradeoffs and how well they serve the society at large depends on the character of both the leaders and the citizens. Neither captialism nor socialism imply anything about the character of either.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Friday, December, 05, 2008 3:42 PM Granite Eagle writes:

Funny

As I was driving home a few days ago, I was listening to Detroit (read cesspool) radio.

It must have been Goettlefinger who was making comments.

Not Surprisingly, he was carping about how the foreign companies in the US are not paying their workers enough........Huh??
He said....well, we were here first...and we set the stage...these guys came in later......wha??
Ronnie...they are well paid and produce superior products.....
He also was carping about how they (must be marginal 3) had to pay city, state, federal taxes, property taxes, etc, etc, etc and the foreign car makers moved in and were given 100% tax abatements to locate there, had roads built for them, had all utilities provided, etc by the local governments.

Note to Ron....the big 3 is skilled at this too....don't think for one second that they don't do this same thing. I used to live near the Moraine OH plant. News Headlines one Sunday.....GM receives $110 Million tax abatement from city of Moraine" Why? Because GM hinted at leaving if they did not get what they wanted.

No Ron.....your employers are decaying from the inside. Just like a rotten tooth....looks good until you bite into something hard....then it all falls apart in a cascade of pieces and pain.

Ron, congratulations to the UAW for negotiating some cherry agreements with the marginal 3. I am a firm believer in getting what you can negotiate for.....however, your time has come.

Finally, I live next to a Ford Engineer. His take on the UAW? You don't want to know.....
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Saturday, December, 06, 2008 9:29 PM Steve writes:

Dear Caddy

1. So what?
2. So what?... again.
3. They are not mutually exclusive.
4. Who said we did?
5. Lie.
6. Is either really? Look again.
7. Monopolism is not capitalism. Nor are GSEs.
8. Utter bilge.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Saturday, December, 06, 2008 9:58 PM Jennifer writes:

Steve

I read your response in this post, Fri., Dec.5th, 6:42 pm, and from what you said there , you might be interested in reading a post from spincipher. It is still on the current blog run,

Gunny, hope you don't mind the communication with others on your post comment sight!
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Saturday, December, 06, 2008 10:19 PM caday5 writes:

Steve

Point 1, you made the claim a free society is where private ownership and where God is exalted above man. I simply pointed out that that is not true. You can have a free society where God is not exalted. You can have a society where private ownership is respected but not free. You can have a socialist society that also has private property. And you can have a socialist society that is free.

Point 2, again contradicts your original statement that declared you can have no synthesis.

Point 3, any kind of denial of our responsibility to our communities not only can cause God to be blasphemed, it also is an attack on God.

Point 4, when an the CEO of a major oil corporation explicitly states in a TV interview that the only stakeholders of his company are the stockholder, then it is evidence that we are doing those things. The same goes for those corporations who close plants here regardless of the harm it causes so their investors can increase their profits or when they do not pay their full-time employees a livable wage.

Point 5, our proxies and American trained paramilitary fighters murdered liberation theology clergymen and women. Even now, American trained personnel torture union members for belonging to unions.

Point 6, Nicaragua has had free elections since the Sandinistas overthrew the American supported dictator Somoza. That included the time when the Sandinistas were ousted by an election--caused by American sponsored terrorist attacks. And yes, Sweden is a free country. I learn this from those living there.

Point 7, I will grant you point 7 if you grant that we have not had a true capitalism here for decades.

Finally, any system developed by people have tradeoffs. That is a basic fact of life.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Saturday, December, 06, 2008 10:44 PM Steve writes:

Dear Caddy

Point 1: Wrong in all respects.
Point 2: Point 1 obviates it.
Point 3: You've just condemned yourself!
Point 4: Pointless blather!!
Point 5: Liberal insanity!!!
Point 6: Nicaragua- lie. Sweden- fading and decadent.
Point 7: Of course I do. Socialism (and depravity) in many increments. Liberal S.O.P.
Point 8: Those "tradeoffs" usually translate into another attack on America's heritage, freedom and future.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Monday, December, 08, 2008 11:58 PM sheepdog1 writes:

Gunny

Mind if make a suggestion? First though I would like to say that I really enjoy reading your blog. I wish I could get this at work but unfortunatly the firewalls at work prevent me from doing that.
Anyway I was wondering if you could do an essay about W. Edwards Demming. I learned of him last year during a class I was taking on Supply Chain Management. The man was absolutley brilliant. Anyway I learned that he had ideas on how to make a company succesful. He took his ideas to the Big 3 back in the Mid 50's. The companies told him to get lost. He then took his ideas to Japan where the the Japanese embraced his ideas. My instructor told me that that the Japanese revered him. His picture hangs in the Toyota Headquarters building in Tokyo. The reason I'm asking is because you are so much better at research than I ever could be. I always wonder what the Big 3 would be like today if they Big 3 had embraced his ideas back then. I seriouly doubt they would be where they are today.
I'll understand if you don't want to do it. If you could, I would really like to read what you have to say. Thanks and Semper Fi
P.S. Keep slamming the libturds.
EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive
Tuesday, December, 09, 2008 2:10 PM caday5 writes:

Steve

In all of your rebuttals, you simply make blanket statements. For example, for point 1, the founding fathers founded this country on the deistic principles more than Christian principles. Where you had communities founded strictly on religion, such as the Puritans, you had religious persecution. For example, the puritans persecuted and even killed quakers because of their religion (4 quakers were killed for example).

Why not document your counterpoint to point 3.

Point 4 is meaningful because it shows the corporate culture that exists in too many corporations. But here one must decipher whether your main concern is to defend corporations or our country.

Point 5 is too well documented.

Point 6, What we did in Nicaragua is also well too documented to dismiss with a single statement offering no supportive documentation. In fact, we were condemned for our actions there and ordered to pay restititution by the World Court. And, Sweden is still doing quite well and outperforms us in quite a few categories.

Point 7, Capitalism, which relies on self-interest as a guide, is not depraved? It is as depraved as any other system.

Point 8, the issue is not the object of the attack, such as American Heritage, the issue is the truth of the attack.



EmailItEmail It | Print It Print It |  Flag as OffensiveFlag as Offensive