GEORGE BUSH, IRAQ AND IRANIAN CONTEMPT FOR BARACK OBAMA AND THE ANTI-WAR LEFT

Nice assessment and you are probably closer to the truth than you know.

Good grief, Obama can't be concerned about a little thing like Iran. He's got a country to dismantle over here. Despite what is admirers think, he can only mess up one country at a time.

Sarcasm spigot off ...

Now for a Q, if I may:
Notwithstanding the issue of Israel, how does the U.S. benefit from some type of democracy in the Middle East? (No, I am not an isolationsist; Yes, I am a supporter of Israel.) But I have yet to hear what I beleive to be a credible argument for promoting "democracy." Our respective histories and cultues are drastically different as far as I can tell.

Thanx in advance for your information and patience. Even us old dogs can learn new things, you know.

There you go. That's the problem. The Ala Messiah dosen't want Democracy in the middle east. He hates the Bush Doctrine succeeding. He most likely beheaded his George Bush Bobble head.

Word from Olympus

Mrs. Al,

You raise an interesting point.

When we bring democracy to an Islamic people, as we have in Iraq and Afghanistan, what we unavoidably get is an Islamic democracy, illiberal and limited where church and state are not quite as separate as in our country, and women and non-Molsems are not quite regarded as equals enjoying the same rights and freedoms. But democracy must begin somewhere. The Republic of the Founders and Framers was illiberal and limited allowing slave owners and treating women as second class citizens. Just as we have made great strides in becoming a truly liberal democracy so will Afghanis, Iraqis and the people of Iran (who, I believe, are on their way to freedom).

You have given me a lot to think about with your response. Yes, I will 'analyze' it and munge on this for a time. I very much appreciate your input.

Oh, I note you added a Post Script. Interesting.

We are not understanding these Iranian demonstrations,its not for "democracy" most support the governments policies its just they wanted a new president to carry out their policies.

So it seems given appearances. But don't be deceived. The protesters have the numbers, not the guns. They rightly fear the Revolutionary Gurard, a 125,000 man terror-thug force with a stake in the survival of the Khameine-Ahmad regime. If the protesters call for revolution and radical democratic change-which they want-it will bring down the wrath of the Gurards and the movement will go the Tiananmen way with thousands dead and little or nothing gained.

Anyway we should be concerned about our own country which is under attack by this two bit African Dictator and his goofy followers.

First things first.

Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth. ~George Washington

I think the lesson that history has taught us, even as we struggle to maintain our own liberties, is that a free people is a peaceful people. Free people are not opressive or warmongering.

When the seed of liberty is nurtured, it will grow tall and stiffle out the weeds of tyrany and opression. Even weeds as steadfast as Islam.

I believe I understand what you are saying and it is a noble goal.

I have two Qs based upon your post: first, will "liberty" ever mean the same thing in a country like Iran as it does (or used to) mean here in the U.S.A? Second, are you suggesting that Islam is more a governing model instead of a religion with the term "weeds as steadfast as Islam"?

Just call me curious and always learning (or pain in the rear end).

Liberty and freedom mean the same everywhere. These are not concepts that can be molded by governments or religion. In fact, it is the very opposite.

Ilsam is a method of keeping people under rule. Plain and simple. The same can be said for all religions. It's just a matter of the Rule. Islam demands imperical rule. It is fundamentally flawed and cannot survive in the presence of free will.

You see, most religons attempt to persuade non-believers to their point of view. Islam attempts to force people to follow strict docterine, with no exceptions, and any one woh doesn't follow is a lesser form of life and not fit to share the same planet. I think the term is Infidel, or one who is un-fit.

True freedom means freedom for all. Islam in itself demands a structure of "higher-ups" who impose themselves on those deemed to be lesser.

William, appreciate your response. I will be considering your POV and thought process. In my 'thinking' mode I usually don't respond directly to what has been said. Sometimes my initial reacions are not correct.

Thanx again for taking the time to respond!

Did liberty mean for the Founders what it means for us today? Not exactly when you factor in slavery and the absence of equal rights for women. In time Iraq will slowly evolve into a liberal democracy; now Iraq is in its illiberal period similar to where we were 233 years ago. Our illiberal period lasted up until 1920 when women got the vote, or perhaps with the passing of the Civil Rights Act in the 1960s. The same process of political and social evolution will occur in Iran when it goes democratic.

Good analogy. I couldn't have said it better.(obviously)

Thanks. Your posts have added value to this blog.