Why Words Matter

You know how it is with the left though,Flag. It is they shall be judged by their INTENTIONS.Whole lot of so-called "clergy" going to have a lot of 'splainin' to do when their time comes. Good post.

Obama finally resigned from Trinity UCC yesterday, after Fr. Pfleger's act got out into the public. I guess now he can really say that any mention of his time at Trinity UCC is a "distraction"! Too little, too late!

The fruits of the labors of these two are yet to be impartially judged. I submit that enabling bad behavior, fomenting resentment and class warfare produce a bitter fruit.

Another good post Flag

I hit another part of this scandalous church in my other blog at http://www.vajoe.com . I'd appreciate your thoughts on the angle I used there.

This kind of stuff is what the next generation has to look out for,what with Facebook,MySpace,etc. It is all out there to see.Spot-on with Obama being too little too late. I sure don't think we need that kind of faulty judgement in the White House,we've had about ENOUGH of that!

We have had to deal with two terms of Clinton's bad ideas and decisions, and nearly two full terms of Bush...but at least neither of those men were naive to the way the world really works. Obama seems to be a product of academia, where the idea is the important thing, not if the idea will work in the real world. And that is dangerous.

my 4 year old has a lot of ideas. Thankfully she can put very few of them to practice.
Yeah, we also teach our kids that words matter.

Good post.

I have a 4 year old daughter who thinks she's the queen of the house; everything has to revolve around her! And I have been busy lately trying to get her to realize that words mean something, and if you don't understand the words you're saying...don't say them!

It seems that some of our fellow adults need to get a firm grasp of that concept.

Yessir,no doubt about it. Do these people have a CLUE about what the UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES of their proposals are BEFORE they drop these dog logs on us? I think NOT.

I’m back. I’m sure you missed me. Now before I go in depth about your op-ed and address directly your points, I would appreciate if you could read my post first.

With that being said, let'a get ready to rumble:

“First it was Reverend Jeremiah Wright damning America”

He said “God Damn America” for all the evil this nation has committed. Again, he was not wrong. If someone says “God Bless America“, then why not embrace the inverse? As I said before, God has nothing to do with the success of this nation nor its failures. Otherwise, one could say that by allowing slavery and the massacre of Native Americans, God really doesn’t care about the oppressed in a society. Also, have you actually seen the whole sermon in question?

“and pushing wild ghetto conspiracy theories from the pulpit,“

Why do they have to be “wild ghetto”? Kind of odd choice of words.

“…and now it is Fr. Pfleger mocking Hillary Clinton and insinuating that she is racially biased because “There’s a black man stealing my show!”

Well, if you take 2 minutes of a sermon, then you get that clip. Again, watch the whole sermon.
There's a link on my blog to it.

“Basically we are being told that their actions outweigh their words,”

No. What you are being told that don’t judge a person without knowing the whole story as well as the context. Pretty good life lesson.

“…and many are willing to simply go along with that line of reasoning.”

As did you when you voted for GWB 2x. Lol! Much luv Flag!

“After all, it’s not so much what you say as what you do, right”

Well, I’ll quote from the Bible (even though I think it really has no relevance in this convo. “But be ye doers of the word” (James 1:22)

“Well, it is not quite as simple as that. Open your Bibles, if you please, to Matthew 12:33-37 which reads”

However, you don’t judge all their words. You just selectively pick out 3 minutes from over 30+ years of sermons. Is that really fair Flag?

“See, what this means is that words do matter, and the words you speak often times will speak louder than any works you may do.”

True. However, why not present all 30 years of words?

“What you say is not by accident, but is what you have in the depths of your heart.”

Exactly. If you look at their sermons, you’ll see love and compassion from their hearts.

“Good works can be done by anyone, and often they are done for the benefit of the person doing them”

Well then Jesus was wrong about serving others and obeying the greatest commandment to love one another? So the Sermon On The Mount was a display in narcissism?

“…but the words spoken when you are among friends are much more likely to be a window to the “true you”.

Yes. However, if you only select a small percentage of words, then the “true you” can be twisted in all ways.

“This brings me back to Rev. Wright and Fr. Pfleger, and the words that have been spoken from the pulpit of Trinity UCC.”


“ It seems to me that both Pfleger and Wright have used the good works done by their churches to shield themselves from the words that they have spoken time and again.”

I think your dead wrong. Tell the truth: have you seen more than 3 minutes of clip for these men?

“They say, “Why I was wrong to say that, I’m so sorry to anyone I may have offended, but look at my neighborhood outreach. That justifies me.”

They never said that.

“But the Lord says, “For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.” It doesn’t get too much simpler than that, in my book!

However the Lord says to serve your fellow human beings. We must also not forget that Jesus Falsely Predicted the End of the World in Luke 21:25-33. “And that is why words truly do matter, my friends.”

“And that is why words truly do matter, my friends.”

You sound like John McCain. =)

Finally from the Amanda Carpenter article, you said

“but could you please stop with "racism at TH" bit? You know as well as I do that just because people disagree with you doesn't make them racists“

I had to think about how to respond to that statement. I‘ve been debating with you for a few months now. You know that just because someone disagrees with me doesn‘t mean I call them a racist. Have I ever done that to you? How about to str8talk? How about BrianR? How about clyde? You should know be better than that. I must admit I was disappointed that you would characterize me that way, especially on that specific board. However, I don’t know if you are naïve or clearly delusional when you insinuate that racism on TH does not exist. I can provide you with hundreds of posts where the “author” has attacked me, another liberal African American poster, or the African American community at large with racial epithets, stereotypes, and comments. Do you actually deny that exists? Come on Flag, smell the bacon dude.

We have had to deal with two terms of Clinton's bad ideas and decisions,”

Things were pretty good for most of America. I long for those days. Peace, prosperity, and a smart president.

“…and nearly two full terms of Bush“

You voted for him Do you renounce your vote? Would you do it again? Actually you can if you vote for McCain,

“...but at least neither of those men were naive to the way the world really works.”

Flag, your kidding right? Bill got it, in more ways than one. Lmao! Bush and his cronies still don’t get it. See Iraq and Afghanistan for examples.

“Obama seems to be a product of academia,”

Yes, he is a smart man.

“where the idea is the important thing, not if the idea will work in the real world.”

Actually no. Unlike many politicians, Obama has used his academic prowess to tackle real problems among us ordinary folk when he was a community organizer. He knows how policy affects the little guy. Also, have you read his books yet?

“And that is dangerous”

Yes. Having Bush/McSame in the Oval Office is very dangerous.

Judging by the multiple posts i hope we can safely assume that the health problems in your family are starting to stabilize. I read about your grandmothers on your blog and they have been in my prayers, as have you. Here's hoping that my fundamentalist prayers don't rub you the wrong way ;-)

As to the posts, I'll try to be brief which means not responding to every one of yours individually. You know how I do it.

Now you asked me about my choice of words on the wild ghetto theories, and I stand by them. When you have a well educated man spreading the fable that AIDS was created to wipe out the black community and that the CIA put dope in the ghetto to kill blacks, that pretty much fits the definition of wild ghetto conspiracy to me. I don't know about you, but most of the black folks I know who honestly believe that live in the local housing project...hence the term "wild ghetto conspiracy."

On the issue of Fr. Pfleger and Rev. Wright, i have met neither of them...but that doesn't disqualify me from forming an opinion of what they said. And frankly, much of what they said was divisive and offensive. I saw at your spot that Fr. Pfleger earlier in his sermon preached the message of racial conciliation, but he then turned and preached something totally contradictory. So the words of James 3:10-12 ring true here that say, "Out of the same mouh proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so. Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening? Can a fig tree, my brethren, bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Thus no spring can yield both salt water and fresh."

As to the question about the Sermon on the Mount, I never said that men should not serve one another or fail to love one another. But Jesus and his disciples warned of those that would try to justify themslevs by their works, as Ephesians 2:8-10 makes clear when it says, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yurselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." The sermons and actions of Fr. Pfleger and Rev. Wright are self aggrandizing in that they are trying to use their works to build themselves up and as a shield against criticism. They remind me of the Pharisees that were told, "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleannes. Even so you also outwardly appear ighteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness." (Matt. 23:27-28)

And personally, I don't feel the need to listen to 20 years of sermons to get the flavor of these men and their views. I only read a few of your posts and knew you were a liberal, so I think I can form an opinoion of these men by their public words.

Finally, on the Amanda Carpenter article: I know that racism exists,and I know that some people at TH are prone to paint blacks with a broad brush and go on racist rants. But those few do not represnt the many, and when you start slinging the racist label around it smears all of the posters at TH. If you are going to make that charge, be specific with it, instead of saying anything that can be construed to be a slap at all of the TH posters.

Every day above ground is a good day for me, regardless of who the President happens to be. But the Clinton years were not all sweetness and light, but I suppose that Democrats will always act like they were. Somehow Democratic terms in office get mythologized, while the years a Republican are in office get a totally different treatment.

As for John McCain being GWB Redux, where are you getting that idea? Wasn't it just a few months ago that the media were cheerleading the "maverick" for constantly poking his finger into the eyes of the GOP's conservative base and for standing up against the big, bad, Bush White House? But suddenly, the moment he becomes the GOP nominee, he magically morphs into a Bush clone? Please tell me that you aren't buying this media created image!

Finally on Obama's books: No I haven't read them and I most likely won't be adding them to my reading list. I generally don't read books by politicians because I find too many of them to be totally self serving; that is also why I refrain from reading many autobiographies. When people write about themselves they have a tendency to make themselves more heroic or tragic, depending on the audience they are trying to reach and the image they are trying to create.

“Judging by the multiple posts i hope we can safely assume that the health problems in your family are starting to stabilize. I read about your grandmothers on your blog and they have been in my prayers, as have you.”

Well thank you. For this last absence, I’ve just been more concentrated on catching up on some work. Plus, I needed a break from cons opinion. I can only take so much BS at a time. LOL!

“Here's hoping that my fundamentalist prayers don't rub you the wrong way ;-)”

Well I’m sure we have divergent opinions on faith as well. However, your prayers for my family or myself doesn’t offend me at all. I’m actually quite touched by your concern. Funny thing is that my grandmother with ALS is a fundamentalist Christian like yourself (minus the whole anti -gay thing). She goes all the way back to the days of Billy Graham, Oral Roberts, Jim Bakker (She took me to Heritage USA once) etc. We actually had a serious falling out after I left the Church. I just wish that prayer could cure ALS or Alzheimer’s. I learned a long time ago that it doesn’t

“Now you asked me about my choice of words on the wild ghetto theories, and I stand by them.”

That’s fine.

“…and that the CIA put dope in the ghetto to kill blacks”

Umm, that’s actually true Flag. Maybe not the “kill blacks” part, but the CIA operatives did funnel cocaine into African American neighborhoods.

“…that pretty much fits the definition of wild ghetto conspiracy to me.”

As does those believing that socialists are seeking to infiltrate America, the “Rapture” will occur just like how the “Left Behind” series detailed, or how homosexuals are seeking to indoctrinate children are idiotic redneck/trailer park theories.

“I don't know about you, but most of the black folks I know who honestly believe that live in the local housing project...hence the term "wild ghetto conspiracy."

Interesting. You have “housing projects” in your neck of the woods?

“On the issue of Fr. Pfleger and Rev. Wright, i have met neither of them...but that doesn't disqualify me from forming an opinion of what they said.”

Never said that. Just that you just selectively pick out 3 minutes from over 30+ years of sermons to form your opinion. Is that really fair Flag?

“And frankly, much of what they said was divisive and offensive.”

Well, that’s not true. Again, decades of sermons rather destroy your assertion.

“ I saw at your spot that Fr. Pfleger earlier in his sermon preached the message of racial conciliation, but he then turned and preached something totally contradictory.”

Not really. Did you see the entire sermon? What’s your opinion of the piece?BTW, are you a minister? Deacon?

“The sermons and actions of Fr. Pfleger and Rev. Wright are self aggrandizing in that they are trying to use their works to build themselves up and as a shield against criticism.”

Again, it seems as if you are saying that they had a grand scheme all along. Come on Flag. Are you serious?

“They remind me of the Pharisees that were told,”

Umm, I think a modern day equivalent would be the Religious Right in America.

“And personally, I don't feel the need to listen to 20 years of sermons to get the flavor of these men and their views.”

Well, I would suggest you listen to more than 3 minutes worth of grainy footage. Hopw about 3 sermons?

“ I only read a few of your posts and knew you were a liberal, so I think I can form an opinoion of these men by their public words.”

There’s a difference between deciphering someone’s political leanings and making abroad based judgments on someone’s heart and intentions. Also, which public words? The ones that are “highly charged and controversial”?

“I know that some people at TH are prone to paint blacks with a broad brush and go on racist rants.”

Finally!!! Don’t forget about the columnists.

“But those few do not represnt the many,”

I don’t know about that Flag. It’s about 50/50. Again, why do these racists feel at home on a cons site and not a liberal site?

“.. and when you start slinging the racist label around it smears all of the posters at TH.”

I never said that. Now as for hurting people’s feelings, I would say more need to stand up to these posters or censor their vile posts. I’m not the problem, they are.

“If you are going to make that charge, be specific with it, instead of saying anything that can be construed to be a slap at all of the TH posters.”

I have. Now, will these posters and columnists follow your advice?

“But the Clinton years were not all sweetness and light, but I suppose that Democrats will always act like they were.”

The majority of Americans long for the days of the Clinton administration. Lord knows the same can not be said for GWB.

“Somehow Democratic terms in office get mythologized, while the years a Republican are in office get a totally different treatment.”

Flag, are you living in fantasy land? What about the Cult of Reagan that exists in your party?

“As for John McCain being GWB Redux, where are you getting that idea?”

Fact.

http://www.truthout.org/article/joshua-holland-john-mccain- gop-nominee-bring-him-on

http://therealmccain.com/


“Finally on Obama's books: No I haven't read them and I most likely won't be adding them to my reading list.”

I think you should. What do you have to lose? How about a challenge? You read his 2 books and I’ll read 2 books. Deal? Come on Flag.

“I generally don't read books by politicians because I find too many of them to be totally self serving; that is also why I refrain from reading many autobiographies.”

Hold up. Didn’t you read that book by Clarence Thomas? Wasn’t that “self serving”? Remember when I asked you to read “Supreme Discomfort: The Divided Soul of Clarence Thomas”?

http://www.townhall.com/youropinion/comments.aspx?g=4730acf 1-9e21-4b23-abb9-73f2e4c4a30d

Come on Flag. Your starting to act like John McCain now!!! LOL!!!

“When people write about themselves they have a tendency to make themselves more heroic or tragic, depending on the audience they are trying to reach and the image they are trying to create.”

Great description of “My Grandfather’s Son”. LMAO!!!

So what about this little challenge? You game?

In answer to a few specific points:

No, I am not a minister or deacon...usher and VBS teacher have been good enough for me! However, my eldest brother was a minister and we had always planned for me to be one of his deacons when/if he became a pastor and my older brother is one of the leaders in his church. He pretty much all of the responsibilities of a deacon without the title.

As for "racism" at Town Hall, I simply haven't seen nearly the 50/50 split among racists/non racists that post here, and I fail to see this huge number of columnists who are racists either. As for why why some racists feel comfortable at a conservative website, I suppose it is the same reason that certain demagogues feel at home at liberal sites. At either place there are going to be a nunber of people who will agree, but those few don't represent all of the people there. I'm just not a person that takes the worst examples of behavior in a group and tries to make it fit the whole group.

As for Clarence Thomas's book, i have not read it and probably won't...at least not in the near future. Like I said, I don't hold a great deal of truck for autobiographies, no matter who wites them. About the only autobiographies I like are "Up From Slavery" and "The Autobiography of Malcom X", and even they aren't entirely truthful. Both gloss over parts of their lives they don't want to touch, so reading biographies fill in those blanks. As for your offer, I must regretfully turn you down. I have already compiled my reading list for the summer and right now I'm about 2/3 of the way thru "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" and I want to get "The Man in the Iron Mask" finished , as well as "Red Rabbit" by Tom Clancy. And I am going to have to decompress after "The Rise and Fall".

I see that you sent me to an opinion piece to "prove" that John McCain is GWB redux. Why? Let me explain this, if the first lines of the piece are a name calling screed odds are that it's not going to be too objective! I skimmed it and the tenor of the article was a bit too angry for me to take seriously, since the writer seemed to be more interested in venting his spleen at McCain than actually showing any real linkage between McCain's stances and those of the Bush administration. I know you can do better than point me to an opinion piece!

“As for "racism" at Town Hall...”

I disagree with you on the number. I’ve seen the vitriolic hatred that is directed toward me and/or the African American community at large by some of the posters and columnists on TH. Again, I know this is a cons site and I’m a proud, loud liberal. However, my being African American really seems to get some of these posters express emotions through the screen they aren’t able to share in public. The larger truth is Flag that many cons have a negative impression/view of the African American community (even those who are African American like Sowell, Williams, Parker, etc). One could successfully argue that many cons principles and GOP policies specifically are anti-African American. However, I’m sure you disagree.

“As for why some racists feel comfortable at a conservative website, I suppose it is the same reason that certain demagogues feel at home at liberal sites.”

I don’t see many columns or posts on liberal sites that disparage people based on their race. Again, seems as if the cons movement/Southern Strategy has shown its 21st Century base.

“At either place there are going to be a number of people who will agree, but those few don't represent all of the people there.”

True. However, there is a pattern here with you cons. Did you hear what Grover Norquist said today?

“ I'm just not a person that takes the worst examples of behavior in a group and tries to make it fit the whole group”

Same here. I’m sure you knew that.

“As for Clarence Thomas's book, i have not read it and probably won't...at least not in the near future.”

I thought you did. You would probably like it. I’m sure you know my position on that disgrace of a person named Clarence. Yuck!!

“Like I said, I don't hold a great deal of truck for autobiographies, no matter who writes them.“

I agree. However, Obama’s were great. I really hope you read them. Also, let’s not go down the Booker T. road again. LOL!

“As for your offer, I must regretfully turn you down.”

Ok. We’re on for the Fall right? It’s my goal to convert you to a liberal (I’ll settle for a moderate) and a Redskins fan. I truly believe anything is possible!! LMAO!

“And I am going to have to decompress after "The Rise and Fall"

I would hope so. Take all the time you need.

"I know you can do better than point me to an opinion piece!"

Well, I wanted to start you off with a bang. Lol!

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/beyond/2008/06/obama-vs-mccain- voting-records.html

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_maverick_my th

http://mccainsource.com/mccain_fact_check?id=0015

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080505/mccain_video

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080512/maverick_video

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080616/scheer

http://www.aflcio.org/issues/politics/mccain_bush.cfm

Question: Are you planning to vote for John McCain? What does he offer that will dramatically affect healthcare, education, oil dependency, global warming, etc? Where is John Mcain planning to lead this country?

I say again, the actions of SOME cannot be put onto the shoulders of ALL or even half! Deal with those individuals that insult you as individuals, but do not say that because they are at TH that they represent the site, the columnists, or the members that post here. When liberals at DailyKos or HuffPo are writing things about killing Bush or Cheney, or are calling conservatives racists simply for being conservatives, or a person like Julianne Malveaux wishes death on Clarence Thomas because she does not agree with his politics or his legal opinions, that is no different from what some columnists may write or what some members here may post. But because I know many liberals, and nearly every professor I have had is a liberal, I know that these extremes do not represent all liberals. And because I know this, I do not attempt to link the rantings of Julianne Malveaux to every liberal because I know that she only speaks for herself. So instead of accusing 50% of the members at TH of racism because a few of them may be, you should deal with the individuals as such. Furthermore, you are not exactly an innocent bystander here. You have lobbed plenty of bombs and made plenty of accusations of racial animosity, if not racism, to a lot of people who disagree with you on racial matters. Not everyone who opposes the continuation of affirmative action, or who has a low opinion of Al Sharpton is a racist!

As for Clarence Thomas's book, i probably would enjoy it. From some the exerpts i have seen, I would probably be able to relate to him, as we seem to have a some things in common, mainly our childhood circumstances. Just like Thomas, the primary male role model in my life was my grandfather who took my family into his home and helped my mom raise us. He was a hard worker who never took a dime of charoty from anyone, paid his own bills, and was only in debt when he farmed...and he always managed to pay that off at the end of each tobacco season. He was hard on me and never told me that he loved me as I can remember, but I always knew he did and I always knew he wanted me to be the absolute best I could. That much I know that I have in common with Clarence Thomas, and that's fine with me.

As to John McCain, I won't be voting for him in the general election because there are simply too many liberal tendencies in him for me to trust him. I have written this on TH threads and in some of my posts here, and nothing has changed that. I also will not be voting for Barack Obama; he has plenty of other people clamoring to vote for him without my adding my vote to that total. I may just skip voting for President and vote just for my Congressional races and the state/local races in November.

On the book front, we will have to revisit that at a later date, since I don't know just how heavy my reading load will be in the upcoming semester. But I will never become a liberal or a Redskins fan...that is "Mission Impossible". As for being a "moderate", what exactly does that mean? I feel that I am a pretty moderate guy already; I hold conservative views but I have never been doctrinaire in those views. Just look at the reacion I have gotten for daring to say the Texas Rangers and CPS overstepped their boundaries in raiding the YFZ Ranch!

“say again, the actions of SOME cannot be put onto the shoulders of ALL or even half!”

I never said all. Maybe half is a bit extreme. I’ll be fair and concede that point. However, they do exist and seem to have free reign on TH. I SAY AGAIN, RACISM DOES EXIST ON TH AND IN OTHER CONS QUARTERS. WHY IS THAT?

“Deal with those individuals that insult you as individuals, but do not say that because they are at TH that they represent the site, the columnists, or the members that post here.”

These people are members of TH, some are columnists who are paid by TH/Salem Communications, and I do deal with them. However, many cons or the paid filters/,moderators consistently do nothing. Why is that?

“When liberals at DailyKos or HuffPo are writing things about killing Bush or Cheney,”

Changing the subject are we?

“…or are calling conservatives racists simply for being conservatives”

Changing the subject again Flag. Now on this side point, you must realize why many liberals and moderates feel this way. I mean, cons have a problem with the perception that they are intolerant toward African Americans, Latino Americans, GLBT Americans, Poor Americans, Secular Americans, etc. Reading some of the columns or posts on TH don’t really help your cause much.

“…or a person like Julianne Malveaux wishes death on Clarence Thomas because she does not agree with his politics or his legal opinions,”

Really off topic as well as an old story.

“…that is no different from what some columnists may write or what some members here may post.”

Actually it is. It is quite widespread in cons circles unlike that in liberal corners.

“So instead of accusing 50% of the members at TH of racism because a few of them may be,”

I’ll retract the 50% mark. However, I stand by my assertion of accepted racism on this site. Also, I hope you realize that I’m not calling you a racist or putting you in the same category as these ignorant posters. You’re a good guy Flag, minus the Cowgirl thing and the GOP thing. LOL!!!

“ you should deal with the individuals as such.”

I do. However, I’m always the only one. Vary rarely does a cons poster correct a fellow psoter. The majority of the time they side with their ideological comrade.

“Furthermore, you are not exactly an innocent bystander here. You have lobbed plenty of bombs and made plenty of accusations of racial animosity, if not racism, to a lot of people who disagree with you on racial matters.”

Such as? Plus, almost always I am proven correct. It is also funny to see these same posters call me a racist!!! It is also funny to see them get angry when IAlso, I never said I was perfect. I KNOW I'M NOT!

“Not everyone who opposes the continuation of affirmative action, or who has a low opinion of Al Sharpton is a racist!”

Really Flag? You know I don’t believe that and have never said that. That was low Flag!

“As for Clarence Thomas's book, i probably would enjoy it. From some the exerpts i have seen, I would probably be able to relate to him, as we seem to have a some things in common, mainly our childhood circumstances.”

I don’t know about that. Clarence has some real issues.

“Just like Thomas, the primary male role model in my life was my grandfather who took my family into his home and helped my mom raise us. He was a hard worker who never took a dime of charity from anyone, paid his own bills, and was only in debt when he farmed...and he always managed to pay that off at the end of each tobacco season.”

Interesting and a powerful story. Now he wasn’t a Republican was he?

“He was hard on me and never told me that he loved me as I can remember, but I always knew he did and I always knew he wanted me to be the absolute best I could.”

That reminds me of my grandfathers and my father. However, they always told me they loved me.

“That much I know that I have in common with Clarence Thomas, and that's fine with me”

Trust me, you don’t want to have much in common with that man.

“As to John McCain, I won't be voting for him in the general election because there are simply too many liberal tendencies in him for me to trust him.”

Really?

“I also will not be voting for Barack Obama; he has plenty of other people clamoring to vote for him without my adding my vote to that total.”

I think you should reconsider. Plus, every vote counts. Who knows, Obama may win your state!
“ I may just skip voting for President and vote just for my Congressional races and the state/local races in November.”

I hope your voting straight Democratic right? LOL!

“On the book front, we will have to revisit that at a later date, since I don't know just how heavy my reading load will be in the upcoming semester.”

Well please focus on your studies.

“But I will never become a liberal”

Well I think its possible.

“…or a Redskins fan”

I understand you aren’t ready to experience the Burgundy and Gold experience. Keep rooting for those Cowgirls and waiting for that elusive playoff win……

“As for being a "moderate", what exactly does that mean? I feel that I am a pretty moderate guy already; I hold conservative views but I have never been doctrinaire in those views.”

Well that’s good and true. I’d like to see you possibly be more socially/culturally moderate. However on the list of things I’d like to see in my life, your personal political positions rank rather low on that list. Winning a $245 million jackpot or seeing the Redskins win another Super Bowl come before you. I hope you understand. LOL!

“Just look at the reaction I have gotten for daring to say the Texas Rangers and CPS overstepped their boundaries in raiding the YFZ Ranch!”

True. LMAO!

This is mostly to address some of the issues raised in your first post:

You ask me why racism exists at TH, as if there is a different reason than the obvious: as you are so fond of pointing out, racism exists in this society. If racism exists in society, why do you somehow expect that TH is going to be free of individual racists? Racism exists in San Francisco, in DC, in NY, and in Winston-Salem, so why wouldn't it exist on the internet? There are always going to be people who hold racist views, but again that is not everyone at the site. So stop with the attempt to smear all the people, or half the people at the site with the racism brush. Besides which, the purpose of this site is not to stifle or squelch ideas or attitudes that are objectionable; it is a forum for those ideas to be aired. That is why there is ample space provided foer members to converse, debate, and challenge one another on any issue or comment made. Wage war on those that oppose you, but don't try to bring everyone else into the fight. And if you see something that is truly racist and offensive you can always flag it and let the site administrators deal with it. The people that run the site cannot monitor every thread, so use the tools that are at your disposal to report it. I have known some people who were banned from the site by the administrators for the things they were saying, but you have to bring it to the attention of the administrators.

Second, you accuse me of "changing the subject" when I point out some of the things being written at liberal sites, but you well know (or should) that I was attempting to make a point to you. If you didn't get it here goes: When the people who advocate killing the President or Vice President post that drivel, or Julianne Malveaux vents her spleen against Clarence Thomas it does not represent all posters at Kos or HuffPo, or all members of the media. I can be unhappy with them for what they say, but I cannot credibly use their words to represent all liberals. Get it? Good!

And forgive me for forgetting that liberals live on a higher moral plane than the rest of us humans! I forgot that no liberal has ever made a n*gger joke, no liberal has ever said a discouraging word about gays, and liberals never stoop to name-calling! And I forgot the rule that when they do say stuff like this and it is pointed out that it becomes an "old story"; but just to clarify Trent Lott's comments at Strom Thurmond's birthday party is to be forever used as a bludgeon against all conservatives, while Ms. Malveaux's comments can never be referenced again, as they are "old news". I'll make sure to remember that the next time Barack Obama premeptively accuses the GOP of making race an issue, when no one has.

Second, you accuse me of "changing the subject" when I point out some of the things being written at liberal sites, but you well know (or should) that I was attempting to make a point to you. If you didn't get it here goes: When the people who advocate killing the President or Vice President post that drivel, or Julianne Malveaux vents her spleen against Clarence Thomas it does not represent all posters at Kos or HuffPo, or all members of the media. I can be unhappy with them for what they say, but I cannot credibly use their words to represent all liberals. Get it? Good!

And forgive me for forgetting that liberals live on a higher moral plane than the rest of us humans! I forgot that no liberal has ever made a n*gger joke, no liberal has ever said a discouraging word about gays, and liberals never stoop to name-calling! And I forgot the rule that when they do say stuff like this and it is pointed out that it becomes an "old story"; but just to clarify Trent Lott's comments at Strom Thurmond's birthday party is to be forever used as a bludgeon against all conservatives, while Ms. Malveaux's comments can never be referenced again, as they are "old news". I'll make sure to remember that the next time Barack Obama premeptively accuses the GOP of making race an issue, when no one has.

“You ask me why racism exists at TH, as if there is a different reason than the obvious:”

No. I said why is their a strong strain and frequency of racism/racial animus at this website. It seems, to me and others, that cons are more apt to tolerate racists than liberals.

“…as you are so fond of pointing out, racism exists in this society.”

Well racism does exist. Now, how am I “fond” of pointing out a reality? I’d love for you to explain.

“ If racism exists in society, why do you somehow expect that TH is going to be free of individual racists?“

Flag, I never said that. Again, “there is strong strain and frequency of racism/racial animus at this website that seems to fester without a repudiation from moderators or fellow posters. I am 100% certain that Daily Kos and HuPo would not tolerate such a plague.

“…or Racism exists in San Francisco, in DC, in NY, and in Winston-Salem, so why wouldn't it exist on the internet?”

Again, I never said that.

“There are always going to be people who hold racist views, but again that is not everyone at the site.”

I agree. Never said it was everyone. Would you actually read all my words and stop twisting them around. I’m serious about that.

“So stop with the attempt to smear all the people, or half the people at the site with the racism brush.”

First off, I’m not and you know it. Again, I would appreciate if you would stop twisting my words.

“Besides which, the purpose of this site is not to stifle or squelch ideas or attitudes that are objectionable; it is a forum for those ideas to be aired. That is why there is ample space provided for members to converse, debate, and challenge one another on any issue or comment made.”

So that’s the TH mission statement?

“Wage war on those that oppose you, but don't try to bring everyone else into the fight.”

Maybe it’s the liberal in me, but I don’t know how anyone can stand/ignore racists and bigots who post garbage on this site. It’s funny how your cons brethren will “gang up” on a liberal, while at the same time will not say a word about these posters. Ironic don’t you think. Now, would you join me in this crusade to rid this site of racists.

“and if you see something that is truly racist and offensive you can always flag it and let the site administrators deal with it. The people that run the site cannot monitor every thread, so use the tools that are at your disposal to report it. I have known some people who were banned from the site by the administrators for the things they were saying, but you have to bring it to the attention of the administrators.”

I have. Nothing has changed. That’s why I’m increasing “withdrawing” from this site. I have tried to “broaden” my horizons and view the inner workings of my enemy, but it’s getting quite trying and sickening. I’ve got to admit that some of the cons thought and opinion makes me physically ill and weep for this nation. How are some of these people so stupid?

“Second, you accuse me of "changing the subject" when I point out some of the things being written at liberal sites, but you well know (or should) that I was attempting to make a point to you.”

My rationale for my critique of those points was threefold. First off, they didn’t address my original question of why is it that cons websites attract more racists/bigots than liberal websites. Secondly, those examples are quite old and are easily matched with far more examples from your side of the isle. Thirdly, I hope that you weren’t justifying bad behavior with bad behavior.

“If you didn't get it here goes: When the people who advocate killing the President or Vice President post that drivel, or Julianne Malveaux vents her spleen against Clarence Thomas it does not represent all posters at Kos or HuffPo, or all members of the media.I can be unhappy with them for what they say, but I cannot credibly use their words to represent all liberals. Get it? Good”

When did I ever say that I judge everyone on the words of a few ignoramuses? I never said that I judged you or the entire TH site based on the words of a few posters/columnists. I did say 50% and I retracted that number. Seems as if we are having some communication/reading comprehension problems here. You should hopefully know me better than that Flag. However, I’m thinking that you are transposing some of your anger/stereotypes of African American liberals on me. Case in point the constant twisting of my words as well as the total mischaracterization/smearing of my past statements/positions. Again, when did I ever say that anyone who doesn’t like Al Sharpton/AA is a racist? You never answered or provided examples. I would appreciate a retraction of some sort.

“And forgive me for forgetting that liberals live on a higher moral plane than the rest of us humans!”

Flag, please don’t give me that sob story about the poor conservative in America. It gets quite old. Again, I never said liberals are perfect. Also, why are you so sensitive about being a cons? It was YOUR choice to be a cons. I’m sorry you get heat from being a African American GOPer. It’s not fair and the jokes/jibes that come with it are terrible. However, do you understand why people have such a problem with it? If you did, maybe you could generate a better comeback to those who oppose your beliefs. Maybe you could “evangelize” and gain some new GOP converts? Why not start at WSSU?

“I forgot that no liberal has ever made a n*gger joke, no liberal has ever said a discouraging word about gays, and liberals never stoop to name-calling!”

Please Flag. Cry me a river!!! I’m just pointing out a perception problem of cons that is widespread in many circles (liberal and moderate). Many people view your party and philosophy in a negative light when it comes to racial minorities, GLBT Americans, and compassion toward the marginalized in society. You never answered that either. As for liberal name calling, never said we were perfect.

“And I forgot the rule that when they do say stuff like this and it is pointed out that it becomes an "old story"; but just to clarify Trent Lott's comments at Strom Thurmond's birthday party is to be forever used as a bludgeon against all conservatives, while Ms. Malveaux's comments can never be referenced again, as they are "old news".

Personally, I felt the story about Ms. Malveaux was quite old and has been used by the Right too much. I disagreed with her statements as quite evil and sick. As much as I don’t like Clarence, I would never wish fir his death. Maybe a early retirement from the SCOTUS, but not his death. As for Trent Lott, I was offended by his comments. However, they fit a storyline/pattern of fact based cons animus toward African Americans. Do you want examples?

“I'll make sure to remember that the next time Barack Obama premeptively accuses the GOP of making race an issue, when no one has.”

Flag, are you f@cking kidding me? Are you saying that no one affiliated with the cons movement or the GOP has made the race of Mr. Obama an issue?

***Alert: Before you respond to me, PLEASE READ MY WORDS IN CONTEXT AND DON’T MISCHARACTERIZE THEM. ******

Thanks, THE MANAGEMENT

PS: I must admit I do enjoy our debates. =)

These are your exact words:
"I don’t know about that Flag. It’s about 50/50. Again, why do these racists feel at home on a cons site and not a liberal site?" and...

"The larger truth is Flag that many cons have a negative impression/view of the African American community (even those who are African American like Sowell, Williams, Parker, etc). One could successfully argue that many cons principles and GOP policies specifically are anti-African American."

It doesn't take me twisting your words to paint the picture. You said that the percentage of racists at TH was about 50/50, and yous painted "many" conservatives as having a negative view of blacks...not me. I just pointed it out and called you on it.

As for joining the crusade to rid TH of racists, all I can do is confront the one's I come into contact with and flag them for the TH people to deal with. Nothing that I say or do is going to rid TH of anyone; if the site gets as bad as you seem to think it is, I'll simply spend my time at other siites...which I do most of the time anyway.

And you metion the perception of conservatives as racist as if the perception squares with reality. People have all sorts of perceptions of people and events that are not grounded in reality, no matter how many anectdotes one points out. Because a person that is conservative on some issues is also a racist does not mean that all conservatives are racists, no more than the fact that some liberals are basically socialists means that all liberals are socialists. Perception is not reality, and never could be because it is much too subjective. Perception is often based on what people what an individual thinks or feels, and when emotion is involved there is not much room for reason.

Finally, I am sure that some conservative has made arguments against Obama because of his race (although I haven't heard any high profile conservatives doing it), but Obama has been much more likely to use race as a weapon against his opponents than the other way around. It was the Obama camp that basically accused Bill Clinton (of all people!)of racism during the primaries; it was the Obama supporters in the media who spent the primary season casting voters who did not support Obama as racists, and it was the Obama camp that played the pre-emptory race card against McCain...when McCain has never mentioned Obama's race in any speech or in any of his criticisms of Obama. McCain has done his best to go after Obama on the grounds of their policy differences, not on personality, and certainly not on racial grounds. But mister "Hope and Change" went right for race, even though his opponent has NEVER brought it up.

But hey, it's alright to smear McCain and the GOP that way since "The larger truth is...that many cons have a negative impression/view of the African American community..."

Right?

One of these days I'm going to post something original so we can go at it on something else!

Hold it down till next time!

“It doesn't take me twisting your words to paint the picture. You said that the percentage of racists at TH was about 50/50”

I did and you are twisting my words. I also said,

“I never said all. Maybe half is a bit extreme. I’ll be fair and concede that point.”

“ I never said that I judged you or the entire TH site based on the words of a few posters/columnists. I did say 50% and I retracted that number. Seems as if we are having some communication/reading comprehension problems here.

Seems as if you missed that.

“and yous painted "many" conservatives as having a negative view of blacks...not me.

I stand by the point that those in the cons movement have a negative view of the African American community at large. Whether it is racism, anger at over 90% of African Americans voting for liberal candidates, etc, there is a strained relationship between cons/GOP and the African American community.

“I just pointed it out and called you on it.”

No. Just like with Father Pfleger, you only focused on the words that stuck out to you and ignored context. You even ignored my retraction. Gotcha games don’t work with me pal.

“And you mention the perception of conservatives as racist as if the perception squares with reality.”

In the minds of many, it does.

“People have all sorts of perceptions of people and events that are not grounded in reality, no matter how many anectdotes one points out.”

Yes they do. Didn’t you vote for GWB twice.

“Because a person that is conservative on some issues is also a racist does not mean that all conservatives are racists, no more than the fact that some liberals are basically socialists means that all liberals are socialists“

True. But you all do have a problem. You do realize that right?.

“Perception is not reality, and never could be because it is much too subjective.”

True in a way. Sometimes perception is based in reality.

“Perception is often based on what people what an individual thinks or feels,”

True. However in this case, cons do have a problem that is not the fault of the individual, it rest with you’all.

“and when motion is involved there is not much room for reason.”

You mean emotion right? Sounds like your talking about religion.

“Finally, I am sure that some conservative has made arguments against Obama because of his race (although I haven't heard any high profile conservatives doing it),”

But wait Flag. Didn’t you just say,

“ Barack Obama premeptively accuses the GOP of making race an issue, when no one has”

Well Well Flag. Seems as if you were wrong and I was right!!!

“…but Obama has been much more likely to use race as a weapon against his opponents than the other way around.”

Really? This man has been running as the “post racial” candidate (whatever the hell that means). He has run away from race at almost every opportunity.

“It was the Obama camp that basically accused Bill Clinton (of all people!)of racism during the primaries“

Umm no.

“it was the Obama supporters in the media who spent the primary season casting voters who did not support Obama as racists,“

Wrong again. Just those who openly said to exit pollers that Obama’s race was a negative in their voting selection. What should we call them if not racists? Republicans?

“…and it was the Obama camp that played the pre-emptory race card against McCain“

How Flag?

“...when McCain has never mentioned Obama's race in any speech or in any of his criticisms of Obama“

True. At least, not yet…..

“McCain has done his best to go after Obama on the grounds of their policy differences,”

In a way. McCain loses on every policy discussion.

“…not on personality,”

How can he?

“…and certainly not on racial grounds.”

Others have. Look at Grover.

“But mister "Hope and Change" went right for race, even though his opponent has NEVER brought it up.”

Again how? He NEVER said McCain specifically. Please go back and READ CAREFULLY HIS WORDS. COME ON FLAG, YOU ARE STARTING TO EMBARRASS YOURSELF. Still luv ya though. Lol! Also, what is wrong with Hope and Change??

“But hey, it's alright to smear McCain and the GOP that way since "The larger truth is...that many cons have a negative impression/view of the African American community..."

Oh please. I never said McCain or the entire GOP. Now if you want to continue lying to yourself about the REALITY that the GOP and cons have with minorities, then go ahead. Just know that your party is dying (THANK YA JESUS!!!!) and it needs to change in order to survive.

“Right?”

Wrong. Nice try though Flag. You gotta do better. How about by answering my questions.

“One of these days I'm going to post something original so we can go at it on something else!”

How about you post something that we can both agree on, if possible? Like the color of the sky? LMAO!

“Hold it down till next time!”

I will. Just start READING CAREFULLY and MISCHARACTERIZING MY WORDS. Remember that WORDS DO MATTER!!!!

Until our next quarrel………