On Race In America

while we have been around and around on certain issues, this is the Ralph that I would love for many at TownHall to see. So many times I have seen you get agitated on the threads by the words of one or two people, and instead of engaging in the broader debate get hung up in those side conversations. But we all allow our emotions to get the better of us at times, and sometimes it takes our focus on the stuff we meant to be doing.

That said, I was not that impressed by Obama's speech...and you probably were able to anticipate that. He was well spoken, and he made some good points but there are some things that I disagree with him on...one of which is his attempt to make the ideas expressed by Mr. Wright seem as if that is how the entore black community thinks or how things go in black churches. While there has been a history in the black church of speaking ut against certain aspects of American policy, never has the black church stood to damn America, nor has it stood up and attacked a political candidate because she has never been called a n*gger, nor has it ever intimated that israel was somehow evil, nor has it held up racists like Louis Farrakhan as examples to out children. Mr. Wright has done that repeatedly, and Mr. Obama sat for 20 years listening to that, and allowing it to be taught to his children without ever raising one word in objection. So to say that he can't "disown" Mr. Wright isn't true; he simply chose not to do so.

Also, I feel that Mr. Obama, by remaining silent on these types of comments he gave them his tacit approval. His silence, his refusal to confront his pastor, to disassociate himself from that body, and his reluctance to even condemn the remarks...until he started to pay a POLITICAL price for his silence, tells me that Mr. Obama did not see anything wrong with those attitudes and sentiments, and calls into question his fitness to lead this nation. If yu cannot confront the evils that are in your personal life, how can you be trusted to confront the greater evils in this world?

We have all had people in our families that have said things that we were not comfortable with, or that were plain wrong...and we have gently, lovingly confronted and corrected those who have said those things. That is what Obama should have done, but instead he chose to do nothing and he should be scrutinized for that silence.

And I disagree with your introduction of John Hagee and Rod Parsley into this conversation, because there is a fundamental difference in this situation. While Pastor Hagee and Rod Parsley may hold views that are repugnant to many, they are not "spiritual advisors" to a presidential candidate. Neither are the 20 year pastor of John McCain, and neither has been a source of inspiration or guidance for him. Mr. Obama has chosen to stay under Mr. Wright's guidance for 20 years, has chosen to be married by him, has chosen to have his children baptised by him, and has chosen to make him an integral part of his inner circle, so the introduction of Hagee, Falwell, or Parsley here is simply an exercise in moral equivalence.

I'll check back this pm to see your response, and if you don't mind I'm going to plug your post at my blog.

With some great insights. I'm glad I saw Flag's recommendation at his place.

Flag and I have discussed this issue a bit. Bigotry is a very unfortunate aspect of human nature, and will always be with us in some form or another, IMO, unfortunately.

In this country, there are still people who are anti-black, anti-Jew, anti-Asian, whatever.

In Ireland, it's religious: Catholics v. Protestants.

In some places in Africa, it's tribal in nature, Blacks v. Blacks of other tribes.

I'm half Armenian, and there are still a lot of Armenians, particularly of the older generations, who are virulently anti-Turk. Greeks hate Turks, and vice-versa.

I thought it was wrong for Obama to be judged on the basis of what some else said, and got into quite a debate on this issue on another blog; needless to say, my point of view wasn't exactly the prevailing one over there.

Oh, well.

Very good essay, Ralph; I enjoyed it.

Excellent post,and you are right,I believe,that the racial divide may not be healed,but if we stop working toward that goal,how will we ever know if it can. Too much IGNORANCE in the world Ralph,end the ignorance,you go a long way toward solving the problem.

family heritage. I'm sure that it has had profound influences on who you are and how you perceive the world around you. Like all family influences, some are for the better, some not. I guess I could have just ditto's Flagwaver's post, but I wanted to tell that I appreciated and enjoyed your piece on your family.

On, BrianR, my wife is Armenian. I've had very interesting and informative discussions with elders from her family. In terms of percentage of population slaughtered, the Ottoman Empires systematic racial "cleansing" of Armenians dwarfs the Holocaust. Even so, the Armenians I've known all remember their history, but they have forgiven their tormentors so as to not continue to be held captive in their hearts by someone who hates them.

Pretty much, which is why I qualified it to being of the older egenration.

Context: I'm 59. My grandfather was a Genocide survivor. He and his generation were really big on the whole anti-Turk thing.

To me, it's a historical episode, not to be forgotten, but also not to be constantly relived and refought, like those old geezers from the South who are always going on and on about the Civil War.

Hell, when I was in my 20s, I seriously dated a girl I knew in Chicago who was of Turkish descent.

All I cared about was that she was HOT!!!!!

on what someone else says unless we accept it as part of our character. Sitting for 20 years in a pew with your family listening to Jeremiah's hate means you accept it as your own. Could be your actual feelings, could be for political reasons--doesn't matter--it's yours unless you reject it. Now is too late to reject it--when you are caught. Al Gore greened up his house when he was caught. To me that told me he really doesn't think the AGW problem is that big. Obama's refusal to "throw Jerry under the bus" is unexplainable considering his persona that he runs his campaign on--a uniter not a divider. I give him no quarter for loyalty, because blind loyalty without judgment is not a leadership trait. No one praises Bush for his too long loyalty to Rumsfeld. The speech was pap--an attempt to get people to focus on race--not on this vitriolic, anti American racist that Obama calls pastor and counselor and friend. It does not appear to be working--fortunately for America.

Good post! I don't want to think Obama is a hater--I never thought he was--but the speech gives me cause for concern. From your life you seem to have taken the best parts and the poat was well written. I wish I could open up like that. Wouldn't know how to express it.

Your family made it work. And you provide some good insight. I have always said one cannot choose who you fall in love with...and what choice was there? Even today some are not given much of one.
But my question is- do you honestly believe that a person can only say those things once and call it a mistake? They have to be ingrained and perpetuated. And Obama had to know this. He is adding to the farce by not admitting that. Obama clearly identifies himself through his black heritage. No one has any disagreement with that. Not me, anyway. It is that he is trying to defend what we can all see in his spiritual advisor. Obama should have rejected that, plain and simple.

Racism will always exist. It exists among Whites, among Blacks, among Asians, among Hispanics. And religious hatred will always exist. In fact all "different-than-me-isms" will always exist. Few people, Conservative or Democrat, will argue that.

The question is not about the existence of bigotry, it is about how can this bigotry best be beaten back? Will it be through government imposed programs/quotas/wealth redistribution/affirmative action/hate crime laws/etc, as Obama and the Democrats preach? Or will it be through the value provided to society by the various racial/ethnic/religious groups who bear the brunt of the bigotry, as Conservatives preach?

There are many, many examples to prove that government cannot legislate tolerance, but individuals and families can overcome intolerance. When the Democrats (including Obama) come to value individual and family initiative above identity political power, they will serve their constituencies, and the rest of society, much better.

I do thank you for coming by and reading my post. I also apologize for responding so late. I've actually had a family emergency that has taken up almost all my time over the past few weeks. Things are looking better now.

Anyway, thanks again for visits and posts.

I appreciate your visit and comment. I again apologize for responding in such a slow way. I had a family emergency that has taken up all of my free time over the past few weeks. Things are better, for now. As for myself, I am quite a highly charged person. I'm a fighter, like Hillary (lol!!!). That's just me. Again, I can be very calm and peaceful/non-threatening. However, when I sense hate/racism, I don't back down.

As for TH, many on here can't stand me. Personally, I really don't care. 100 people out of 6.6 billion people in this world don't like me. I think I'll manage. Plus, I am a proud liberal on an conservative website. I'm not expecting alot of luv. Lol!!

Also, I thought you would have liked Obama's speech. I thought it was perhaps the most honest appraisal of race in America we have seen in a long time (at least on mainstream media). I don’t think Obama was trying to speak for all 38 million African Americans nor the entire black church. As for Rev. Wright, I agree with the majority of what he said. Truth is on Wright's side, for the most part. As for the black church saying Damn America, Dr.King’s sermon he was to deliver on Sunday, April 7, 1968 was entitled “Why America Is Going To Hell”. Kind of harsh, I say. Personally, I don’t think we can say claim we are God’s chosen country or that God has indeed blessed America. I think wrapping the Cross in the American Flag is problematic to say the least. Indeed, I believe God neither Damns nor Blesses America. In fact, I believe God has more important things to do than worry about the USA.

Also, Wright was Right about Hillary. She is not an African American and to my knowledge has never been called a n@gger.”

Now, Rev. Wright did make some stupid statements. However, I find it funny that people take 3 minutes out of 30 years of sermons to characterize this man. I actually have heard the man speak on several occasions. Outstanding man. If I lived in Chicago, I probably would have been a member at Trinity UCC or Saint Sabina. I don’t think Obama should have to account for his choices of places to worship. Also, if anything, I give him credit for belonging to a church like Trinity. Again, there are 2 sides to every story.

As for Hagee and Parsley, it is true that they are not Grandpa Munster’s pastor. However, Grandpa Munster did describe Parsley as his “spiritual advisor”. He also has actively sought the support of Hagee too. Again, both men have said far worse and false things from their respective pulpits than Rev. Wright did. However, in America it is okay to condemn gays as evil sores on this land, call Islam an religion of the Devil, and support terrorism against the Palestinians since they don’t count in the eyes of Yahweh.

Again, I await your response. This time, I will respond quickly. LOL!!!

Thanks BrianR for your response. I also apologize for responding so late.

I agree that bigotry will be with us until the entire human race is extinct as an result of Global Warming. Maybe then, we will stop this foolishness and grow up. Now, I believe that as an society, we should try our best to make the playing field somewhat level. Will we may disagree on the tactics, I think we share the same goal. Thanks again for the kind words and for stopping by.

Thanks for the post and visiting my blog. I agree that ignorance is the barrier to progress and understanding. If you fight ignorance, I think some common goround will be found found and progress can be made.

I also think that battling against ignorance will result in more Democrats and less Republicans. LOL!!!!

Thanks for the comment and visit. My family, like everyone, has influenced me profoundly. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worst. I am proud of my heritage and my ancestors. Though not perfect by a long shot, I wouldn't be here without any of them.

I also encourage everyone to research their own personal family trees. It may just suprise you what you find.

Thanks for the post and visit. First off, I don't think Al Gore wasn't serious on Global Warming. The man obviously is committed and has been for a long time now.

As for Jeremiah Wright, I don't think you can call this man Anti-American, racist, or a hater. Nor can you call him perfect. He is a man, not God. Obama has the right to stay at a wonderful churc like Trinity. I really don't think that 3 minutes of clips accurately describes Rev.Wright.

As for the speech, I loved it. It was profound and above all honest.

Thanks for the post and visit. Indeed, my family made it work. It wasn’t necessarily perfect however. I love my grandfathers and owe them so much.

As for Obama, I don’t think 3 minutes of clips give an accurate portrayal of what Rev.Wright, Trinity UCC, or Black Liberation Theology is. I don’t think everything Rev. Wright said was false either.

As for black heritage, I identify myself as African American just like Obama does. My mother (who is half white like Obama) also identifies as African American. It is not somehow ignoring our German heritage. Indeed, if you were to look at me, you can see I’m not exactly pure African. You may think I am Hispanic (Has happened to me on several occasions) LOL!!!

I do so because I strongly identify with my African heritage/ethnicity and have throughout my life been viewed/treated as black man in America. When I can’t hail a cab on Pennsylvania Ave, the fact my grandfather was white doesn’t play into that cabdriver’s decision to discriminate against me.

Thanks for the post and visit. I agree that racism/prejuice/homophobia/xenophobia/sincere ignorance will always exist among human beings.

However, we disagree on how to best beatback bigotry. I am an enthusiastic support of AA/hate crime legislation. I beieve that present day reality in conjuction withthe legacies of the past make such programs/policies necessary.

While we disagree on the methods, I hope we can agree on the goal.

Hope all is OK with your family.

Glad you gave me the heads up at my place; I kept checking back for a while, then gave up.

On that line, whatever the family issue was, I hope it resolved well, and to your satisfaction.

Also, per your response, I agree that the playing field should be level.... truly level.

I don't think government preferences or penalties -- one way or the other -- are the answer.

I think that education, enlightenment, social pressure, things of that nature, are the ultimate solution..... at least as much as there ever really will be a solution.

Thanks for your concern about the family. Things have settled down tremendously. Hopefully, it will be the norm.

I also agree with some fo your methods as well as the ulitmate goal when it comes to equality. We disagree on the role of the government. Then again, I am a liberal and you are a conservative (I think?)

Again, I believe as long as each side shares the same goal, things can be somewhat fixed/improved.

My thing is that sometimes the other side had a nefarious goal in mind. Ward Connerly come to mind. Don't get me started on that man!!! LOL!!

Again, thanks for the post and I agian apologize.

I now must retire. I see a can of Sprite I am about to devour. Also, wifey and I are about to watch our favorite show besides The Wire:

REAL TIME WITH BILL MAHER!!!

Good night and have a great weekend.

We agree that God has way more important things to do than pay all of his attention to the USA...especially since Israel are his chosen, not us. The idea that America is especially blessed is one that I can look around and see, but it is a theology that I reject; it gets inot that Kingdom Now sectarian belief that leads some to think that America is the light of the world instead of Christ. That is blasphemy and I reject it out of hand.

On other matters, I simply don't believe that the images of Mr. Wright are the only 3 minutes he ever went oiff the rails like this; people do not suddenly start to thik and act this way overnight. Mr. Wright is free to teach whatever he chooses in his church, and his parishoners are free to believe it...but they are not free from scrutiny and rebuke if it comes. It is not an attack, nor is it out of bounds to ask Obama if he shares these views, because it says a lot about who he is is and how he is likely to govern. (Check my archives for "The Soul of a Man" for a broader explanation).

As for Hillary not being called a n*gger, what does that mean in terms of policy or ideology? That is why so many, including myself, objected to that...it unnecessarily injected race as the reason to vote for Obama. It is as if Hillary should be politically punished for not being born a black man in America; besides that tyoe of political cheerleading doesn't belong in a pulpit. When a minister goes to the lectern on Sunday mornings, he is supposed to be preaching the Word of God to his flock and to any visitors in the congregation, not leading a political rally. "Render unto Ceasar..." and all that, right?

First off, I wanted to thank you for the "plug" on your blog. I appreciate that.

Again, we do agree that the USA is not "God's Nation". I think we also agree that "American Jesus" is totally blasphemous. As for Israel, we disagree a bit. I believe that the Jewish People are God's chosen people (then again, who wrote the Bible?). However, chosiness doesn't equal superiority. Jews and Palestines are equal in my book.


As for different theological prspectives, I think you know by now that I'm not the mystical/evangelical type. What does disturb me is the whole Kingdom Now/Literalist/Left Behind/Prosperity Movement. I think we agree on that.

Now you know I had to disagree with you somewhere. On the Wright matter, you are not looking at the entire body of work of Rev. Wright. This man is not a racist nor anti American. he is someone who is angry at the state of his country and his people. I understand that. However, he does preach in hate, but in love. He doesn't claim black superiority, but doesn't accept black inferiority either. I admire that.

Again, a 3 minute grainy clip doesn't do the man justice to say the least. I've seen the man speak at Crampton Auditorium on several ocassions. He never once said anything close to what the clip shows. All I ask is that you be fair.

As for Hillary not being called a n*gger, it is true. The reason why he made the point was NOT to secure votes for Obama or make race the deciding factor. Again, look at the ENTIRE sermon.

Finally, I am quite suprised that you want preachers to remain politically neutral on Sunday mornings. You better talk to your party about that. Their famous for it.

I await your response.

i like your article.

i notice brian r stops by.

he is a rational and reasonalble conservative who i have had discussions with before.

the point it like to make to people who say going to wright church says something about obama is to point out that many of our current mormon politicians i. e. hatch, reid, romney and his father spent 20 plus years attending mormon churches that had institutionalized racism as part of their church doctrine.

blacks were considered an inferior race and had the mark of the devil on them.

now its seems to me that hatch and reid and romney came out of that experience without being racist so certainly obama must be given the same opportuinity to prove he is his own man.

finally, my brother is a baptist minister in the midwest and leans conservative but he found nothing in wright s sermons that offended him.

in fact he said that his congregation wanted him to put his sermons on itunes or youtube but he refused becase he did not one or two emotional outbursts to cause him problems.

he said some days he has just come from a funeral or heard something that upset him and acts emotionally in the pulpit and doesn't want those moments frozen in time.

what surprised me cause he is more conservative than me is that he defended wrights right to say what he did because as he put it "sometimes preachers have to tweak the government a little if they are doing something the preachers fell is immoral.

finally, i have talked to 5 other ministers and all of them defended wright.

ok enough for now.

I part ways with Wright on the idea that there needs to be any type of liberation theology at all; the only liberation that a minister needs to be concerned with when he steps into the pulpit is the liberation from sin. And again, I still do not see the relevance of pointing out that Hillary has never been called a n*gger; i'm pretty sure she's been called a b*tch or worse, so does that make her even with Obama in the "bad names called" column?

As for preachers politicking from the pulpit, you say that the GOP or conservatives are famous for it. I say show me the proof. If you say the Moral Majority, I can credibly say that Jerry Falwell started that organization, and whie it was beneficial to the GOP it was not their operation. And I can't recall seeing GOP presidential candidates beinfront and center in puplit after pulpit, Sunday after Sunday like Slick Willie, Al Gore, and John F. Kerry were during their campaigns. And if the GOP were standing in the pupit at Thomas Road Baptist Church, my feelings would be exactly the same. The pulpit is for preaching the Word, not for scaring up votes!

Nice essay and I like the picture of your grandfathers, it warms my heart! My son-in-love who is adopted, has a brother by his adoptive parents (they are all white.) His brother recently married a black girl whose father is black and her mother is Phillipine. The daughter is dark like her father and just gorgeous. I've met her and I adored her, I thought their whole family story was really neat. Now I have yours which is equally a very interesting story.

Thanks for sharing!

Thanks for the kind words about my grandfathers. Thank you also for sharing your story as well. I find it just as heartwarming.

Indeed, love truly conquers all.

http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=4719157

"Selectively quoting someone to remove context can be devious, but the only one doing that is … Barack Obama, at least twice so far in the campaign. He flat-out misquoted John McCain in claiming that McCain said he would want 100 years of war, and he recently put out an ad that completely mischaracterized McCain’s view on the economy by cutting out a significant portion where he said that times had gotten tough recently. So far, Obama hasn’t apologized for either, although he has stopped using at least the first claim lately."