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Comment on:
"one eighty"
Time for The "Conservative" Whiners on TH and Elsewhere to Celebrate!
89 Comments
Sunday, February, 15, 2009 10:31 PM
SLW
writes:
But, Sheila,
There is no difference in the parties. That's what everyone said. So, the whiners must be happy now, but they don't seem to celebrating...just complaining as usual.
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Monday, February, 16, 2009 12:22 PM
Sheila
writes:
Yup...
It's a little late now...
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Monday, February, 16, 2009 8:17 PM
KevInFl
writes:
Re "Conservative" Whiners
They all wanted to send a message....Just like they did in 2006! What did we get? Total Liberal control. What message did they semd? Was it to Repubs?? NNOOOOooooo! it was to Nancy Pelosi, Reif, Chuckie Schumer and of course our Dear Leader, BO and the message THET got from the election was WE WON!!!! and WE get to do what WE want
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Tuesday, February, 17, 2009 12:18 AM
Virginia Daddy
writes:
Hi Sheila
I was somewhere in the middle of that debate. I hated our options, but notice, and it may be a bit too soon to say for sure, but what they were arguing would happen just might be happening, too.
That is that the conservatives are starting to act more like conservatives and actually fight the dems in congress.
I don't think anyone said things would get better if Dems won, only that they likely would not change if Reps won. They would be arguing that McCain would be putting through some kind of stimulus, too, and that while it may not be as radical as what's coming through, the desire to stop such legislation would not be there. They would say it is there, now, at least so far there are signs of that resistance.
Personally, I am not sure that the risk of this chance of heart is worth it, but do remember a couple of things-- our legislature is fluid, and we have the courts to intervene. For our congress, when I say it is fluid, I mean that when the world sees how these guys mess up, they can be elected out, and we can clean up the mess.
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Tuesday, February, 17, 2009 11:29 AM
Sue
writes:
No whiners
Well, they wanted to send a message, of hope and change. Gosh, I really can't stand hearing that anymore. I need to poke my eye out everytme I do!
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Tuesday, February, 17, 2009 1:44 PM
Virginia Daddy
writes:
Who wanted to send the message
of hope and change?
The conservatives or the libs?
I am not sure the message conservatives wanted to send was hope and change? I think it was more on the line of "hope and change" will fail.
FYI-- I voted for McCain because I couldn't (and still loathe) stand the idea of Obama as president. I think he will usher in an era that is the antithesis of conservatism and wil cause unprecedented harm. McCain may have moved in that direction, but he would have been a lot more sensible about it.
But my hope, like I said in my last post, is the legislature is fluid, and the courts are there to keep some semblance of rationale...
But Obama will damage the nation, no doubt.
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Tuesday, February, 17, 2009 1:52 PM
Cindy
writes:
When things are bad they can always
get worse...That is something that was over looked.
Now we headed for a Revolution.
Was that the plan?
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Tuesday, February, 17, 2009 1:59 PM
Urban Ghost
writes:
Who's to blame ?
Maybe some of the blame should be dropped on the Republican party. Where were the real conservatives in 2007 ? Even now, where are the real conservatives ? Just sitting by watching things go down hill. Think maybe it's time to reorganize the Republican Party leadership ?
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Wednesday, February, 18, 2009 1:24 AM
Sanity102
writes:
Where are/were the "real" conservatives?
bashing the party of REPUBLICANS, joining their Liberal counterpart in blaming the REPUBLICAN president for everything, and refusing to call themselves REPUBLICANS like it was a dirty word.
And they wonder why the rest of America voted for the other party.
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Wednesday, February, 18, 2009 12:09 PM
Sheila
writes:
Kev...
"Total liberal control"...you got it, my friend...and now who is surprised at that result?
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Wednesday, February, 18, 2009 12:16 PM
Sheila
writes:
Hi Virginia Daddy...
The prob as I see it, is that dems don't play by the rules. They break the law. They change the law. They don't like the Constitution. When they have complete power as they do now, all bets are off. I don't know what we would do in this country if we wound up with a one party leftist govenment, who decided to change the constitution to suit their power goals, do you? And how could they be stopped? I don't know whether we would have the opportunity to throw them out. Look at Chavez. He now has the power to stay in forever...these people love Chavez and his comrads around the world. They are like him. They want more and more power, more and more brainwashed masses holding their hands out to the government...
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Wednesday, February, 18, 2009 12:18 PM
Sheila
writes:
Cindy...;)
The loud mouths that wanted perfection now have what they wanted. They gambled away the future of their kids...
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Wednesday, February, 18, 2009 12:26 PM
Sheila
writes:
Urban ghost
I know the argument, but losing the majority just gives the liberals more and more power. As I said earlier, they don't abide by the rules, the law or the constitution. Look at all the law breakers who remain out of jail on the left. They are now runing the country...I don't think that is a win win.
Look at the growth in government you now have. Do you think we will be turning that back after the unions grow by leaps and bounds and ACORN changes the community votes to permanently favor their party? And what about the
cencus? Now that was a real surprise wasn't it?
I think at this point the gamblers lost their bet...we will see what happens on 2010. Personally I think it was extremely irresposible and selfish of those who took the chance. I think it was unpatriotic.
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Wednesday, February, 18, 2009 12:27 PM
Sheila
writes:
"irresponsible"...
correction there, GG...;)
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Wednesday, February, 18, 2009 12:30 PM
Sheila
writes:
Sanity...exactly!
How does bashing your president, and your party win votes? Why would anyone vote Republican under those circumstances?
We now are seeing the results of that gamble...aren't we?
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Wednesday, February, 18, 2009 12:53 PM
drpete
writes:
I completely disagree, Sheila, with
your take. I am NOT, and never have been, a Republican. I am NOT, and never been, a Democrat. I did NOT vote for McCain. I did NOT vote for Obama. I wrote myself in.
As of January 19, 2009 2/3 of what the federal government is, does, and spends was unconstitutional. The light of the Constitution was dim long before Barack Obama came on the scene.
Last November,the menu was McCain trashing the Constitution or Obama trashing the Constitution. I chose to have Democrats take the blame for the destitution to come rather than have Republicans take the blame for the destitution.
I'm neither sorry for my decision nor am I whining. I'm busy as heck trying to change the menu for 2010.
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Wednesday, February, 18, 2009 1:03 PM
Sheila
writes:
Hey Dr. Pete!
I AM a Republican and proud of it! I am a Conservative and proud of it!
And I don't believe in gambling away the future of my country...;)that is your choice, but I'm not bying it.
What good do you think will be done by having no balance of power? You may be rethinking your position a couple of years down the road...
The best hope for America, in terms of parties, is the Republican party. That's where you find respect for family values and a love of God and Country.
I hope we will be able to bring back those values and the majority, because right now they are out the window...thanks a lot.
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Wednesday, February, 18, 2009 1:35 PM
drpete
writes:
Are you proud, Sheila, of the Republican
congress and prexy who brought us a doubling of the size and budget of the U.S. Department of Education. Please reference for me the source of the constitutional power to be involved in education AT ALL. Are you proud, Sheila, of the Republican congress and prexy who brought us Medicare Part D, the largest Ponzi scheme since the 1930s. Please reference for me the enumerated constitutional power for that. Are you proud, Sheila, of the Republican congress and prexy who brought us McCain-Feingold, a clear violation of the 1st amendment.
If, Sheila, we had Maverick McCain and a Democrat house and a Democrat senate, would prexy McCain have vetoed any of this? If he did, would the senate have any difficulty getting a few RINOs to overturn? History says no and no.
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Wednesday, February, 18, 2009 1:51 PM
Sheila
writes:
Dr. Pete
The Republican party isn't perfect but is the best hope to hold back the excesses of socialism.
I don't like gambling with elections because of my personal dislikes for what a few people do that I am not happy with.
There is no perfect person or party but there is definitely a better party, and the conservative ideals can only be moved forward through the Republican party, perfect or not.
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Wednesday, February, 18, 2009 2:14 PM
drpete
writes:
In my almost-always-humble opinion,
Sheila, it has been almost two decades since an American could simultaneously be both a proud Republican and a proud conservative. If one is a proud Republican, that person isn't a conservative, much less a proud one.
During the period 2001-2006, Republicans doubled the size of the federal government and its budget. And you say, "The Republican party isn't perfect . . . ?"
Ok, Sheila, I have to accept that you and I live on different planets. And this blog is yours.
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Wednesday, February, 18, 2009 2:29 PM
Virginia Daddy
writes:
Sheila
I understand, but that will take time for them to establish that. I am not familiar with Venezuala's government set up, but inherent in ours is a system of checks and balances between state and fed governmnent and in the fed gov't itself. It has a long history and is widely supported by virtually every American that these stay in put.
That said, I will not say it is impossible for the government to allow a Chavez, but it is unlikely if Americans stand up. And that, then, is my concern long term.
But that will not happen in the four years (maybe 8, but I don't think he'll get 8) that Obama is in office.
I have faith that Americans will see the emporer in his new clothes and make the necessary shift that they are empowered to make under the time honored federalist system.
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Wednesday, February, 18, 2009 10:24 PM
SLW
writes:
I need some advice.
I bought a home, and found some defects that I don't like and I hate my neighbors. I've decided to continue paying the mortgage but move out and let it be overrun by my sloppy neighbors.
Have I made the right decision? I'll lose my entire investment, but I will show my neighbors that I won't stick around while they run down the neighborhood.
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Wednesday, February, 18, 2009 10:56 PM
Virginia Daddy
writes:
Sincerely, I laughed, Sanra
But you may actually have some other remedies in the event you run into if you have found some defects in the house and neighborhood. Depending on what was promised, you can sue to give the house back. You can also fix the problems yourself and make peace with your neighbors.
In the context of the reality, you can hold all those in power accountable by electing good conervatives and not just republicans.
You can raise hell to the current representatives and standing for what you want-- kind of like what libs do.
And another thing to add, start by focusing at home and your community. Sincerely, and not to be condescending at all, but I think the best way to spread conservatism is to show its value in the local communities.
The game is not over, by any means. Might we go through some painful time? I think its likely. But I think because the Dems will create such a mess, people will turn on them and see they ain't what they thought they were.
Of course, conservatives (not just republicans) must show them why their way is better, and that is easier with a united group.
So, how do we unite?
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Wednesday, February, 18, 2009 11:09 PM
dawndawn
writes:
They Exercised Their Right
to protest! And look where rebellion has brought us! Rock on, Sheila! Great post! Must not forget to offer some government cheeeeze with their whine! A sad, sorry state of affairs. I am hoping pbho does a burn out and soon. You know, boredumb! Then we would have Joe the Plugs, followed up by Mad-amn Nnnnanncee! Something`s gotta give to save us! Halp!
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Wednesday, February, 18, 2009 11:16 PM
Virginia Daddy
writes:
DawnDawn
They 'rebeled' in a way contrary to what I am talking about.
I mean a get loud and angry sort of thing toward the current reps. Not anarchy-like, but by standing up and being heard by making noise that cannot be silenced. Really, taking part of the tactics used by the left.
I am prepping a blog about the media and its intent on being a '4th' branch of government in that it, too, was to keep them in check.
We need to utilize that forum, even if it may be run by lefties right now, which, really, is part of the problem, no?
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Thursday, February, 19, 2009 12:39 AM
Sheila
writes:
Dr, Pete...different planets...LOL
I think you're right about that. Being an "Independent" accomplishes nothing. It just gets the wrong party elected and weakens the country.
The ONLY way to change things is to have a super conservative majority!!! AND you have to elect REPUBLICANS to do that! What is so hard to understand about that?
We must not speak the same language on our different planets...:)
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Thursday, February, 19, 2009 12:44 AM
Sheila
writes:
Sandra...;)
Wow, now there's a problem...LOL
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Thursday, February, 19, 2009 12:48 AM
Sue
writes:
Hey
Hey, do you want some cheese with that "whine?" :)
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Thursday, February, 19, 2009 12:50 AM
Sheila
writes:
VDaddy...:)
Gambling on what might happen to our country by giving the dems a majority, knowing what their agenda is (which basically endangers our country's future) isn't an option IMO...
We're seeing how that gamble failed miserably already.
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Thursday, February, 19, 2009 12:52 AM
Sheila
writes:
dawndawn...thanks...:)
Yeah look at what it got us...tantrums never accomplish anything...
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Thursday, February, 19, 2009 12:55 AM
Sheila
writes:
Sue...LOL
That's good...;)it'll take a lot of cheese...
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Thursday, February, 19, 2009 1:02 AM
Sue
writes:
Sheila
I could also break out my miniature violin that can play with two fingers!
Bring on the cheese! :)
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Thursday, February, 19, 2009 1:36 AM
Sanity102
writes:
I heard a good one today
Medved had a guest who replied to a hard liner, who ranted about sticking to solid "conservative" principles and never again voting for a moderate, "why does conservatives want to have a solid 25% conservative party when they need at least a 51% majority to accomplish any of their conservative agenda?"
And Michael challenged the caller to pick any state that picked a "solid conservative" over a "moderate" McCain.
The fact is that the party of REPUBLICANS were taken over by conservatives aka Libertarians that never understood that to make up the rules, you have to be the majority. And to be the majority you have to have more people than just those who agree with you 100% of the time.
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Thursday, February, 19, 2009 9:35 AM
drpete
writes:
Three iterations back, Sheila, in my 1st
posted comment, my last line was, "I'm busy as heck trying to change the menu for 2010."
http://GetAmericaRight.org will seek, not only to change the REPUBLICAN message, but the REPUBLICAN messengers. We will -- just as a couple of examples -- seek to recruit, enlist, and support true-constitutional conservatives to beat Arlen Specter in Pennsylvania and John McCain in Arizona in their 2010 senate primaries. Then, we and Michael Steele and the RNC can join forces to get the new Republican candidates elected.
GetAmericaRight is trying to SAVE the Republican Party . . . from itself; and, thus, America . . . from itself.
Nowhere, Sheila, did I say that I'm an "Independent" . . . and I'm not.
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Thursday, February, 19, 2009 10:31 AM
Sheila
writes:
Sue...LOL!
I'm cracking up!...;) I love it!
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Thursday, February, 19, 2009 10:39 AM
Sheila
writes:
Sanity...;)
Yeah, it's weird...uh...ya can't win without having the numbers...
If we keep throwing everybody out with a few bad apples we wind up in the minority, with a bunch of socialist zealots running the country...like now, and we empower the very RINOs that we don't want running the show.
The lesson: no super majority no luck.
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Thursday, February, 19, 2009 10:53 AM
Sheila
writes:
Hey Dr. Pete!
Glad to hear your not an "Independednt"...;(
BTW, who were the people that got Reagan elected? If I remember correctly they were Reagan democrats.
Our message has to be one that wins people over. We will never have a super majority trying to keep only ultra conservatives in the party.
We have a real challenge now, because the current folks running the show don't play by the rules, want to open the floodgates to get new immigrant voters, and they don't care what happens to the country. It is going to be tough now to turn back the clock...look at welfare reform...it's out the door. Look at the size of government...it's totally out of control.
It doesn't pay to throw tantrums and wind up in the monority. It could be years and years (or never) before we ever get back a majority. The gamble was too costly. Now the work will be even harder. We are seeing how fast the country can be run into the ground.
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Thursday, February, 19, 2009 10:57 AM
Sheila
writes:
Hey Sue!
If you play the violin...maybe I can play the piano...;)
Pass the cheese...
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Thursday, February, 19, 2009 11:42 AM
Sue
writes:
Sheila
Did you see CA got a budget? Loved how Boxer came in and had to talk to them to "put the state first." Oh please!
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Thursday, February, 19, 2009 1:15 PM
drpete
writes:
You asked, Sheila, "BTW,
who were the people that got Reagan elected? If I remember correctly they were Reagan democrats."
The "Great Communicator", Sheila, ran as a conservative and attracted many non-Republicans to him and his conservative agenda. They became like Reagan. Reagan didn't become like them.
Bush 41, Bush 43 (in concert with Karl Rove), and McCain all tried to attract moderates and Democrats by acting like moderates and Democrats. THAT is why the "Republican Revolution" died. THAT is why Democrats control the House, the Senate, and the White House.
McCain is an economics illiterate, a science illiterate, and a technology illiterate. That certainly doesn't make one a great communicator.
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Thursday, February, 19, 2009 1:18 PM
Sheila
writes:
Sue...yeah...
I heard on Fox last night that all our budget problems could be solved by drilling on the offshore govnt leased land, and not one new oil platform would have to be built, due to the new technology to extract oil and gas.
I had mentioned this myself in a blog a while back.
We are living in an insane world.
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Thursday, February, 19, 2009 2:09 PM
Saltwater
writes:
Virginia Daddy
stated “...our legislature is fluid, and we have the courts to intervene.”
Don't place too much faith in the courts for salvation. As Shelia pointed out, Dems don't play by the rules – or change the rules to satisfy their agenda.
Remember FDR's attempt to “pack” SCOTUS with the Judiciary Reorganization Act of 1937. That attempt failed. But how would it be received today?
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Thursday, February, 19, 2009 2:38 PM
Virginia Daddy
writes:
Saltwater
I think it would meet with great resistance. Sure, many would think it would be OK, as most don't even think. But I think that would be an example where all of us conservatives would unite.
Another result of the Roosevelt regime was that presidents can only serve two terms.
If I were to give my biggest concern it would have to be that too many in our populace either do not care or have been taught incorrectly about our government. This is a place that needs a great amount of attention to ensure the lib effects are not long lasting and to effect change.
As long as the libs have the willing and unquestioning masses, they will have great influence. It is less about republican party unity as it is about educating our people, or motivating them to actually care.
This is in large part why I think the best strategy is to start at home rather than only whining about it nationally.
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Thursday, February, 19, 2009 10:55 PM
Sue
writes:
Sheila
No driling, nope! Not here in CA. Lets just raise taxes and call it a day. Nice to know the $0.12 gas tax didn't make it. How freaking unreal. Ridiculous. The entire state is out of control!
By the way you can play the piano. I will play the violin and also the harp.
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Thursday, February, 19, 2009 11:37 PM
Bobbie
writes:
Hooray for you Sheila,
you are exactly right. The dunderheads that had to show how stubburn they could be helped elect this total commie loser to office. Couldn't you just pinch their heads off?
How come you haven't stopped by my place to join up with our THBloggers contact list? We've got the cream of the crop in our group and would love to have you. C'mon over, girfriend.
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Friday, February, 20, 2009 12:46 AM
Virginia Daddy
writes:
Sheila
I just wrote a piece you may be interested in reading, given your thoughts on this topic.
Basic premise/trailer-- remember bigger picture and not the first time groups in this nation have split after seeing success. Probably (hopefully) won't be the last...
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Friday, February, 20, 2009 1:55 AM
Sanity102
writes:
Why the Republican Revolution "died"
because too many non Republican people hi jacked the term "conservative" and drove out anyone that wouldn't march lock step with their beliefs and "principles".
because despite their ivy league degrees and their superior ability to "communicate", they couldn't do the math...you don't shrink your number to 25% of solid conservatives and expect to tell the other 75% what to do.
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Friday, February, 20, 2009 1:57 AM
Sheila
writes:
Dr.Pete
Reagan was one of a kind for sure. But as Thomas Sowel said we shouldn't throw tantrums on national elections. It's too dangerous, and puts the country at risk. The Democrat party has changed, they are into power and that is it, regardless of the concequences to the country.
I believe McCain who is a patriot, would have been a good president, and I believe Bush will go down as a good president, regardless of whether I agreed 100% with his deicisions or policies.
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Friday, February, 20, 2009 2:01 AM
Sheila
writes:
Saltwater...thanks for your comments
I agree...;)
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Friday, February, 20, 2009 2:07 AM
Sheila
writes:
VDaddy...
One of the reasons we have the brainwashed masses is the government education system has sabotaged free thinking. Picture the dems being in power another 40 years as they were before. They will finish the job they started...and it will be the Alynsky/ Aires education system for all American schools and universities.
We have been too naive about the intentions of the left, and have given up majorities too thoughtlessly. We may be paying the price.
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Friday, February, 20, 2009 2:15 AM
Sheila
writes:
Bobbie...thanks...:)
Right on brother..."dunderheads" to the max! Guess they don't mind huge increases in taxes, huge growth in government union jobs choking the private sector,gov. control of banks the auto industry and loss of freedom...just another day in the life of the average dunderhead who couldn't bring themselves to vote republican...
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Friday, February, 20, 2009 2:21 AM
Sheila
writes:
sanity...
Yup..."couldn't do the math"...and now they will learn how to "do the math" as they count their hard earned dollars flying out the window, with massive national debt for the rest of their lives, and their children's lives.
It's a sad day when arrogant know it alls throw the nation's future to the wind.
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Friday, February, 20, 2009 2:22 AM
Sheila
writes:
VDaddy...I'll be by
...
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Friday, February, 20, 2009 1:21 PM
Virginia Daddy
writes:
Have we been too naive?
Or have we not faught hard enough, or in too many cases, been accomplices?
I don't know the answer for sure, but I think sticking up for what we believe and leaving the idea of comprimise behind is one way.
Another idea is to stick to our guns-- which is/should be simple arguments. People like simplicity-- the contract with American was simple and understandable, as was Obama's basic premise of "Hope and Change". As empty as these promises were from the current prez, they resonated with masses because who doesn't like hope and who doesn't like "moving forward"?
Finally, part of the answer has to be shifting gears from the national scene to the local scene. When people see conservatism, they like it. But when they see people whining to the government about it, it turns them off as condescending. People like seeing people succeed as a result of their own hard work and they like seeing the fruits of basic education. But if they don't see it, they will follow the loftier sounding rhetoric of hope and change.
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Friday, February, 20, 2009 9:51 PM
Sheila
writes:
VDaddy...
We have turned the country over to radical leftists. That is the bottom line. All the speculation, guessing, "what ifs" are no longer relevant. You don't play around with the future of the country like some have done in this last election.
The fact is there is one party that has the country's best interest at heart. And I think you know which one it isn't...the one that now holds majority power.
We will either wake up or keep this charade going. We will either realize there will always be a few losers in the party. Can we get over it, and do what's best for the country? Doesn't look like it.
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Sunday, February, 22, 2009 2:18 PM
Sheila
writes:
And VDaddy...
You're right about working at the local level...of course, but when you have laws being implememted under cover of darkness by power hungry Washington politicians that affect local govenmt, (ie, executive orders, stimulus pckg) it becomes impossible to change outcomes, I'm afraid.
I have always been optimistic as you about America, but corruption ruins countries, and the future looks rather grim to me right now.
I think too many took a gamble that may not pay off...
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Sunday, February, 22, 2009 3:37 PM
Virginia Daddy
writes:
Sheila
I think we can all bicker about this until the nation does go up in smoke, but I think that is part of the problem. Why ought people who have similar goals divide like this? It makes no sense. I do understand your argument, but do you understand that one of the biggest rights in the country is the freedom of association? In other words, we all have the right, in this context, to vote our conscious. If that is lost, even under the banner of defeat the evil party, then we have lost arguably our most important right.
I think instead of b*tching at them, we ought to appreciate them for standing up for what they think is right. Doesn't mean you have to agree with the method, but we definately should give credit where credit is due. Standing for something bigger than political expediancy, acknowledging and using the rights given them in an honest forum and manner, and being as passionate about something to take the risk deserves some credit.
The efforts to 'bully' them into voting does nothing. As I have stated, I did vote for McCain, because of the reasons you give, and I cannot in good faith allow Obama into office without a fight. But I do appreciate their stance.
And here in another revealing moment, I will say that both political parties are beginning to wear on me. Its not about the ideology. Its about the methods and rhetoric.
Where have the virtuous gone? It is hard to find them on either side, and that is a problem for me.
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Sunday, February, 22, 2009 3:45 PM
Virginia Daddy
writes:
Sheila
I think you are mistaken on options at home. We do have power, and we can change everything. It may not be immediate, but why does it have to be?
States are free to do many things. And while the Fed government has usurped many things, states and locallities are free to ignore much of what the Fed government does. The Feds may keeep money or support, but there is nothing that says the Feds have to control everything.
It is cowardice that often precludes states from standing up. And here's the thing-- as long as states and localities continue to "take it" the Feds will encroach more and more. Further (and more importantly), when people see conservatism for what it is and what it can do-- actually empower individual success and growth-- it will gain support. I would argue conservatives are far more compassionate and concerned with the well being of the community than the liberals, but because liberals make more noise and are more aggressive, people do not see the benefits of conservatism. Thus, conservatives need to raise the level of attention they give in their communities.
A final point, and I am almost surprised I am making this argument, but conservatives far too often get lost in the moral arguments and don't focus on the most basic of ideas-- success is earned. The moral issues are important, but if the appropriate love and respect are shown to all, coupled with the message of hard work earns success, that is when conservatism shows the best face.
The wars will be won at home, not in Washington.
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Sunday, February, 22, 2009 4:04 PM
Sheila
writes:
VDaddy...
You're exactly right. Bullying is what the "lose at all costs" people have done. Frankly I'm tired of it too.
We have a new moveon.org of the right, and it's the people who have been badgering some people into submission here on TH. I am no longer part of that discussion. That's why I have not visited those sites.
That's what I am sick of. Think of it. We will never have a completely conservative party. But those who call themselves the pure conservatives are willing to sell our country down the toilet in hopes of getting a party that is 100% conservative! Unfortunately this is their mentality and look how divisive they have been.
I'm sorry if I have sounded irritated with you. It's not you. It's some loud voices here on TH who have badgerered people into submission to get their way...
I'm glad not to associate with them.
They will be responsible for the chaos in this country IMO, and frankly they are not worth the time.
I am very saddened for our country. We are in a very dangerous slide downward, and it seems some on the right wanted it to happen. That is disgusting to me.
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Sunday, February, 22, 2009 4:52 PM
Virginia Daddy
writes:
Sheila
No worries.
I think I know who you speak of and see that trait show quite often.
As to the moveon.org analogy, my comment would be to make sure the desire to have people vote Republican does not end up the same thing in and of itself.
We cannot get too entrenched in our own beliefs to forget to see the forest and the trees. Focusing on one or the other will not get us where we want to be. And focusing on one or the other will only divide the groups further.
The point of my post at my place was to provide some of that perspective. First, to say we cannot come back together is pre-mature, second, it is a different thing to actually rule than it is to run (something Obama himself is finding out), and third, in the event of an irreversible split, we have encountered them before. If that happens, the movement will carry on and so will the country.
In the end, I'd say no matter which way you go (R or not R), stick to the conservative values. Don't comprimise too much, and don't let the folks in charge abuse the notion of conservatism to the point it loses its importance.
A win at any cost message is dangerous, but so is not winning. Finding that balance is the tough part in an era where the media wants certain things...
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Sunday, February, 22, 2009 5:23 PM
Sheila
writes:
VDaddy...
My big concerns are the more time we lose with the dems in control, the more crucial things can be reversed and never again ragained...such as welfare reform...(we've already lost that in this stimulus), potential lefwingers on the Supremem Court, the budget out the window (already fact) increase in union power, fixing elections, not funding the military. We've already (in one month) turned back the clock, and we may be in for a 40 year dem "run the country into the ground" repeat...
Today, with terrorists with nuke potential, a weak American government is extremely dangerous.
So, what I am saying is, while certain quarters in our party have been unable to vote for our candidate (a patriot and hero),and worked overtime to convince others to do the same, calling him all kinds of names, and wanting all or nothing, they have put the rest of us at risk, to get their way...all or nothing sometimes gets us nothing.
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Sunday, February, 22, 2009 7:11 PM
Virginia Daddy
writes:
Sheila
I understand your concern-- but do you see their point, too?
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Monday, February, 23, 2009 12:13 AM
Sheila
writes:
That's a tough one, VDaddy...
it's a free country...
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Monday, February, 23, 2009 12:17 AM
Sheila
writes:
for now..
.
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Monday, February, 23, 2009 12:48 AM
Virginia Daddy
writes:
If the Dems go too far, there will be a
revolution.
Interestingly, Jefferson wanted there to be revolutions fairly often, and really kind of expected the current constitution to be temporary, to be replaced every generation or so.
Freedom is too embedded in this nation for it to be taken all at once. The concern is long term, and that is Brian's contention that unless conservative principles are allowed to prevail, we'll end up in a place we don't want to be no matter who's in office. The only difference would be timing.
Looking at CA, there is likely wisdom in that because Arnie is a Republican, after all.
Just a thought right there, because as I have stated, I did vote for McCain because I couldn't allow Obama in... Make no mistake about it, I think these guys will hurt our nation right now.
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Monday, February, 23, 2009 11:25 AM
Sheila
writes:
VDaddy...
Seems we will be discussing this from here to eternity...;)
The main thing is that we need to outnumber the opposition, and until we can achieve that by winning people over to our way of thinking, we lose.
Hopefully Steele has a good game plan for doing just that, and hopefully it's not too late.
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Monday, February, 23, 2009 6:34 PM
Virginia Daddy
writes:
Majorities are good to one's cause
No doubt.
Steele is intriguing... He had great commercials a few years back in MD...
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Monday, February, 23, 2009 10:39 PM
Sheila
writes:
Yeah...VDaddy
It could be interesting...;)
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Monday, February, 23, 2009 11:34 PM
bob's my uncle
writes:
Sheila and all
I have been reading this thread for a couple of days now, here and at Va Daddy's. I saw a question posed here, "how do we unite?"
IMO it has to be about the issues. There are a couple hundred million Americans that will possibly vote in a national election. There are some very big 60% - 80% issues that Conservatives could run on. (Newt Gingrich has done some great work on this no matter what you may think of him.)
Right now, the Dems have everybody running scared on many of those issues. Energy production, border security, national security, gay marriage, immigration, etc. All of these issues could gain a majority consensus if the right message is delivered directly to the people and over the heads of the MSM and the Democrat-Socialist Party.
Somehow, BHO stole the issue of lower taxes from the Republicans, but we can see the Bush Tax Cuts coming to an end in 2011, can't we? So he's really going to be a tax-raiser. Another issue!! Also all of the spending going on must result in higher taxes down the road.
The thing is, conservative ideas WORK! We must stand on them and defend them. We may have to emphasize some over others at times, but never compromise on them.
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Tuesday, February, 24, 2009 12:42 AM
Virginia Daddy
writes:
Bob's my uncle
Precisely.
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Tuesday, February, 24, 2009 1:12 AM
Sheila
writes:
Hey Bob's My Uncle!
You have been thinkg this through...;)
This is hard, because Republicans don't march in lock step like the dems.
We all have strong opinions one way or the other, and we may never be completely unified. Some conservatives have argued with me that national security isn't a big issue!
It will take a strong candidate that can articulate conservative ideals in an up, optimistic way, that everyone can get behind. Unfortunately, though, independent thinkers like us will not always agree on everything. If we put the country first and not the party, we should be fine, but the die hards won't do that...;)
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Tuesday, February, 24, 2009 1:17 AM
Sheila
writes:
By that I mean, BMU,
that it appears that unless the party does exactly as the "die hards" say, they will go off and sulk and not vote for our candidate. Instead of keeping a majority and working from strength, weeding out the bad apples, and keeping the radicals from winning, they want the party to be 100% conservative on EVERY issue!
And thus, we get a radical leftists majority that will run the country into the ground and make America into Amerika, but we had to have a perfect party...to me it does not make sense.
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Tuesday, February, 24, 2009 9:43 AM
bob's my uncle
writes:
Sheila
I cannot be 100% certain, but I think you and others might be misreading the "diehards", as you say. McCain was a big problem last election because his conservative record was so sullied by crossing the aisle, poking conservatives in the eye, etc., etc. Most of them, Brian R included, will vote for a better candidate, with a COHERENT conservative philosophy. I was a "nose holder" when it came to McCain. Some issues tests before the election showed me agreeing with him almost 80%. One of the problems with that is that, on the "hot button" issues, agreement was less than 50%. So, yes, a better candidate would go a long way toward solving the unity problem.
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Tuesday, February, 24, 2009 12:43 PM
Sheila
writes:
Well, bmu
My point is always that I will not give the country over to radical leftists. This is a different time. I realize we live in a fallen world with imperfect people and candidates. I would rather have a patriot who agrees with 95% of what I believe as pres, rather than the opposite...and guess what's happening now...
We obviously disagree...;) My point is being made in full color as we watch. What is the plan after we are a 100% socialist country and the Constitution has been changed to suit the whims of the new leader?
Never underestimate those who don't play by the rules...that is how dictatorships are made.
You may never have a candidate that you agree with 100%...then what?
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Tuesday, February, 24, 2009 1:34 PM
bob's my uncle
writes:
Sheila
I don't think we disagree much. We do agree on a better candidate being necessary. We probably agree at least 95% on issues. 95% conservative agreement with a candidate would have been great last November, but McCain being the candidate was a non-starter for a lot of people. I didn't jump on with him until he spoke at Saddleback Church and then picked Sarah Palin. I would have voted for him anyway given the alternative from the Dems, but I couldn't work for him until he showed me those 2 things.
My dilemma: I have a near hatred of John McCain (and I'm not alone), but I have an abject fear of Obama and total Dem control. So, pragmatically, I chose McCain.
All this to say, McCain was a bad candidate because if you can't coalesce the base, you cannot win. I think he did fairly well with the base for the above reasons. Saddleback, Palin, and fear of the Socialist Obama. But the election was almost like a choice of 'do we want to go quickly into Socialism with Obama, or continue compromising our way slowly into it with McCain'.
But, it is what it is. My hope and prayer is that this will wake up the American people to the danger we're in. There are some signs. We all need to learn the lessons we've been taught.
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Tuesday, February, 24, 2009 3:40 PM
Sheila
writes:
bmu...
We agree on all I'm sure except the idea that McCain would have been a bad president...
I think it's sad that we lost our majority instead of building on it, and some spent all their time bashing Bush and republicans instead of going after the real enemy.
We will always have the battle of Rs that aren't compeletely concervative. Some will always get elected. But I prefer that, and getting our agenda moved ahead than the left changing the country to what we are seeing now.
The truth is, bmu, that in the larger scheme of things, obviously God allowed this to happen, so this must be part of the plan, and the march toward the culmination of all things here on earth. Scripture speaks of times when the world will be a different place, and when evil will have it's last stand...we may be approaching those days.
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Tuesday, February, 24, 2009 6:18 PM
Virginia Daddy
writes:
Sheila
"I think it's sad that we lost our majority instead of building on it, and some spent all their time bashing Bush and republicans instead of going after the real enemy."
Interjecting with your comment to BMU here, I think it is not so simple. I think there is a very real difference among many in the Republican party, a difference some cannot reconcile.
As I stated in my post, there is a real difference in campaigning against a common enemy and ruling once you get there.
History is replete with such examples, and one being the war against Nazi Germany. The west and the Russians were actually allies during that time!
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Tuesday, February, 24, 2009 6:55 PM
jevica
writes:
Sheila
I never bought into the "teach them a message" and not vote Republican idea. If that was the ONLY reason not to vote for McCain it was real stupid, due to what we would get.
On many issues I did not see much difference between the two of them. Some of the things McCain had done made me really not like him; gang of 14, McCain/Feingold, his trust me on the judges I will appoint, his reach across the aisle ideas [seems like more often than not.]
Seems like I was not the only one that McCain turned off.
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Tuesday, February, 24, 2009 11:16 PM
Sheila
writes:
VDaddy...
I know what you mean...but I am the type who sticks by the better man even if he has flaws...I couldn't see having radicals in charge of my country...
History will prove me right or wrong...;)
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Tuesday, February, 24, 2009 11:28 PM
Sheila
writes:
Hey Jev...
On the issues I was concerned about, McCain/Palin were a no brainer...the radicals gainning a majority (plus the White House) simply was not an option for me...
To me it was a clear choice...and like I said to VDaddy, history will show if I was right, if our country goes down the tubes...
I don't trust people that haven't played by the rules (ie, broken the law) to govern with integrity...and chosing between a patriot and an unknown, with the information we had on his associations,property favors etc. plus the Pelosi/Reid combo...it was a slam dunk decision for me...;)
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Tuesday, February, 24, 2009 11:37 PM
Virginia Daddy
writes:
As long as you are reasoned it doing so
and can support it, all is good.
Many just hop on a band wagon and go.
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Wednesday, February, 25, 2009 1:38 PM
bob's my uncle
writes:
Sheila
While I agree that for me McCain/Palin was a "no-brainer", at least for me, it was very difficult to reconcile support for him as Presidential candidate with opposition to him as "maverick", and the one Republican who more than any other thwarted conservatives and the issues that are important to us, even bitterly opposing our views.
I live in Texas, and though border issues are not equally important across the land, I am strongly for gaining control of the border and of the illegal immigration problem we have. This has been polled as an 80% issue. If the courts had not mandated that they must receive education, healthcare, and welfare benefits, it wouldn't be such a big problem. But, as we see in California, it has been argued that their deficit is approximately equal to the benefits received by illegals. Some say "But they pay taxes, too". Not nearly enough to make up the difference. To me this is common sense. Control who enters our country, and make sure they are here to contribute, not harm or freeload.
Ever since May Day parades in 2005, when millions of illegals and supporters marched in the streets, many of them carrying signs reclaiming all of the SW US as part of Mexico or a new country Azatlan. That smacked me upside the head.
McCain undermined a strong conservative response to this issue, (as did George Bush). Just one of the reasons McCain was on my naughty list.
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Wednesday, February, 25, 2009 1:52 PM
bob's my uncle
writes:
Sheila
In addition, you said, "The truth is, bmu, that in the larger scheme of things, obviously God allowed this to happen, so this must be part of the plan, and the march toward the culmination of all things here on earth. Scripture speaks of times when the world will be a different place, and when evil will have it's last stand...we may be approaching those days."
I could not agree more with the above statement. My God is absolutely sovereign over the affairs of men. He does not compromise with evil, either. But, the culmination of all things will come to pass in His time. I don't know if this time will lead to that time or how soon. I look at history and there have been other times that were worse. Life is uncertain, at best. That is why I cling tightly to His Hand. "I don't know what the future holds, but I know Who holds the future."
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Thursday, February, 26, 2009 12:06 PM
Sheila
writes:
Hey bmu...
I know the illegal problem is one that needs a solution, and I agreed with Michael Medved that it needed "comprehensive" measures. There are no easy answers. After years of allowing the flow of illegals, and people having families here, what exactly do you do? W did more than any president to stem the flow.
I thought McCain was on target with the solution.
Since this has been going on for years and has been complicated by mixed messages from the govnmt, it is not an easy solution that can be handled overnight.
Here's my point on the issue... without a SUPER MAJORITY conservatives can't do anything...and now you have a SUPER MINORITY, and guess what...the guys in charge want the "world" to move here to ensure they are in power for ever...good luck on illegal immigration reform...
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Thursday, February, 26, 2009 12:11 PM
Sheila
writes:
And bmu...
No one knows where we're headed in the immediate future, but the signs of the times are easy to read. God gave us warnings to be aware of, and I believe we will know what is happening, and in this global economic downturn unprecedented in history, and the current leadership of our country, we could be on a rapid march toward those times...
May God be with us.
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Thursday, February, 26, 2009 2:06 PM
bob's my uncle
writes:
Yes, Sheila
In hindsight, maybe the "comprehensive" solution would have been the "best we could hope for". Maybe the reaction I and others had was so emotional and visceral we couldn't see beyond the BETRAYAL of our government and business interests. It seemed logical and right at the time to shut it down completely, but the country didn't agree. I thought at the time, if we couldn't win this battle, maybe the country is too far gone, anyway. Maybe there is no going back, no return to my vision of America. Maybe I'm a dinosaur.
Maybe, the End Time is upon us. I cannot say it with certainty, but I DO believe it. "Even so, come Lord Jesus." Amen.
I just had a brand new grandson on Tuesday. I fear for his future, if there is no stopping all that is happening, now.
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Friday, February, 27, 2009 1:26 AM
Sheila
writes:
bmu...
It's hard to understand how this could all be happening in this country...but looking at it from a spiritual perspective, we know things aren't going to get better here on earth. But we can look forward to what God has promised for those who trust in Him.
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Friday, February, 27, 2009 1:32 AM
Sheila
writes:
And bmu,
We can only pray that God has a strong future for America for generatons to come, and continue do what we believe is right for our families and communities, and the country.
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Friday, February, 27, 2009 2:13 AM
bob's my uncle
writes:
Amen, Sheila
It's like I said, I don't think we disagree on much. Isn't it true, that when we have strong convictions and advocate for them with all we've got, it comes from our strong desire for righteousness and justice in this world.
Whenever there is righteousness, as in a good end to a story, we can get a glimpse of heaven in that. A mere shadow of a glimpse.
BTW, if you get a chance to stop by my Backyard Grill Blog, I have an announcement of some personal good news.
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