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Comment on: First Accept In The Heart

Concept

15 Comments

whatever church you decide on...

...you might want to try http://www.berachah.org. They have bible studies on tape or mp3. this is strictly a bible study church. Exaustive studies. the Pastor teaches from the original Greek and Hebrew transcripts. They have over 6K hours of Bible studies available on tape or mp3. All lessons are free. You can order a list of available studies.
I'm not telling you to change churches but for supplemental studies this might be of help to you. If you order and don't like it you can pass it on to someone else.

Absolutes

Jesus said that the greatest commandments are to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and strength", and to "Love your neighbor as yourself" These are somewhat vague, but the simple way to apply this is for every action ask the questions
1) Is this honoring God?
and
2) Is this showing Christian Love to others?

If the answer is no to either of these two questions, then don't do it. Thats simplistic, but that is it.

"Where do you start..."

"Where do you start..."
start with the Bible.
then try other things that have been shown to be in line with the Bible such as the apostle's creed.
while it is true that a person can be a Christian whether they are messianic, baptist, lutheran, catholic, presbyterian, apostolic, pentecostal, charismatic or whatever-the converse of that is true also-just because you are a messianic, baptist, lutheran, catholic, etc., etc., does not make you a Christian either. what makes a person a Christian is Christ not their denomination.
be careful in your journey not to be like pliable in "pilgirm's progress" (by john bunyan). the journey is definitely a worthy and honorable one, but it is also quite dangerous due to the great deceiver (satan). still there is One greater then him and He will do all in His power to keep you on the right path.

william

Thanx for the comments. One point you made would be very worthwhile to apply not just individually but also denominationally. Too often we forget that we are accepting God's grace through Jesus which brings us into God's kingdom. It moves us from "this age" into "the age to come." However, many times we tend to want to stay in "this age" but get the benefits of "the age to come." This is another way of saying that we are called to be in the world but not of the world. IOW we become "citizens" of God's kingdom and should abide by God's instructions. Although we are residing in another earthly kingdom (doesn't really matter which country) with different governments, we must still live by the overall authority of God in our lives and in the life of the church. Just because bribery is OK in a country, doesn't mean that we can bribe, etc.

Absolutes

1) Primacy, fullness, and accuracy found in the Bible, ie, the Bible is the inerrant word of God.

2) The Trinity, that Christ is as much God as God, as is the Holy Spirit, and that they are one, eternal.

3) A belief in the ressurection of Christ three days after he arose from the dead.

These are simplifications, but I hope the ideas are clear.

Virginia Daddy

Thanx for adding. I hold a high regard for the KISS principle. So the simplifications are great. Part of the reason for starting these discussions is to build a practical application of the blessing provided by our Lord and help in listening to the Holy Spirit. I am Lutheran by doctrine and working on my MA in Religion at a Baptist Seminary. We need to start at the basics. Thanx again.

Flame

Just to run with what William said: the Church is not bound by time or geography, but it is made up of all those saved by G-d, regardless of denomination.

Where is the Catholic Church?

St. Ignatius of Antioch, born on or around 32 AD and die 107 AD, Apostolic Father of the Church, 3rd Bishop of the Church in Antioch (from 68 to 107 AD) after St. Peter (Bishop from 37 to 53 AD) followed by St. Evodius (Bishop from 53 to 68 AD), Ordained by the both Apostles St. Peter and St. Paul, in his Epistle to the Smyrnæans in Chapter VIII 4th sentence answered this question like this:

Epistle to the Smyrnæans
Chapter VIII.—Let nothing be done without the bishop.

"Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."

Where is the Catholic Church? - Part II

PS: St. Ignatius wrote about 13 epistles from which only 7 survived while en-route to his martyrdom and death in Rome.

Thanx

for making an interesting point. One thing that is not mentioned is the other "bishops" from other cities. IOW, there is not just one line of apostolic descent from Peter only but many lines of apostolic descent from all the apostles in many different places. This was the "leadership" group that met to discuss major issues especially apostasy and heresy.

Where is the Catholic Church? - Part III

Jee!!! That is an overwhelming task. I mean ... there are literally hundreds of historical books, research papers, Apostolic Church Fathers letters, Church Fathers and scholars theology treatments even early Christian Encyclopedias still conserved to our times that recorded the Apostolic Succession.

All of the Apostles are equal in Grace and Authority. Christ selects Peter as his Vicar.

From the Gospel according to Saint Mathew, Chapter 16, and Versicles 13 thru 20.

13:When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14: And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15: He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16: And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17: And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18: And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19: And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
20: Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

Where is the Catholic Church? - Part IV

The Apostles were Jesus Christ ordained Bishops. They spread all over Asia Minor and Europe. Each of them had the authority and the Holy Spirit Grace to ordain other Bishops and Priests as their successors by the imposing of their hands. During the Church’s first two centuries, St. Peter’s successors were selected by consensus between clergy, deacons, and laity and with the assistance of other Bishops. As the Church grew and organized, then St. Peter’s successors were selected in a conclave or a College of Cardinals. The fact of the matter is the Church has been very zealous in keeping records of the Apostolic Succession.

If you are interested in reading, how St. Peter’s successors were selected through time, then allow me to suggest starting your research for example here: http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=8954.

The Pope, Vicar of Christ on Earth, does not proceed from a narrow line of succession of the Bishops and Priest ordained by Saint Peter. It will be an error to say that Peter's successors are all from a narrow succession line of one Apostle only. All lines derived from each of the Apostles are equally valid. All bishops are equal, but only one is the Vicar of Christ on Earth, the Pope. Pope's selection is by consensus from all of the Bishops proceeding from all Apostolic lines of succession.

That is why I did not even attempted to enumerate or to mention other Apostolic lines of successions. I just wanted to give you a straight answer of where is the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is where its Bishop and the Mystical Body of Christ is. And all Bishops (i.e., Archbishops, Cardinals, and the Pope) are equal in status (in rank for the purpose of analogy), but only one is Christ Vicar and that’s the Pope.

Paco

I really don't want to focus on the doctrine of the RCC nor is that the reason for this particular topic.

If you look at the historical records then the RCC is a part of Christ's catholic (universal) Church however there is no "Vicar" and never was one until the Apostolic and Catholic Church in Rome decided that because the political power of the time came from Rome then they should be the "lead" of the Church. It was a self appointed task and one which led to more and more schism in the Church. I have mentioned this before on other posts, even Peter was rebuked, not only by Jesus but also the apostles and elders. Major issues were determined by meetings of the apostles and elders which continued the "bishops" and elders. So there is no biblical basis for a "vicar" nor is there biblical basis for "infallibility". The strength of the Church comes from fallible men, in Spirit guided scholarship, being accountable to each other to ensure that heresy and apostasy cannot enter by false prophets or teachings.

Golden Rule

I think "do unto others as you would have done to you" (to paraphrase) is the fundamental principle of Christianity (which unfortunately even the best of us at times fall short of).

If everyone worked (and I do mean work) to live by that one principle can you imagine what a wonderful, peaceful world we would have?

We might even be able to resolve the doctrinal differences within the Christian community and find the oneness Jesus describes in John 17.

I have

been reading the book "No perfect people allowed" and it seems to reflect more than just the Golden Rule. I will need to follow up with more research on it but I am really impressed with the manner that is suggested in the book.

Have to be careful using the Golden Rule especially since my last name is Golden and I might think we are talking about my rules! :) Just kidding!