It's a Black Thing...

....If you plan on seperating yourself as something other than American, then don't be surprised when you're treated as such.

Labeling yourself by race, claiming it's "a Black thing" or "the Black community", is leftist and I'm sure they would be happy to identify you solely on that basis like they do all races.

over on Reverend Jackson's column. The guy puts out a very well-written column, and what does he get? Granted, there's a lot of unanswered questions, but he just started and he mapped out when he would be answering those questions. How about waiting to see what he says before we judge him on it? Weird.

You're right, of course. "When the family unit is broken or nonexistent, that leads to many of the ills plaguing the Black community today." In school, I can tell which kids come from stable, intact families and which ones don't before I ever meet the parent(s). Sadly, many times it's the grandparents. Anyway, I'm afraid I've taken over your blog. Always a pleasure to read your posts. Keep 'em coming.

I agree that it doesn't matter what you call yourself so long as you're an American first. I also think it's important to remember your past. Not too many generations ago, my family would have called themselves German-Americans or Irish-Americans. But, several generations down the line, we remember and investigate our past (as you seem to be doing based on some of your comments) but become just "Americans" of German or Irish heritage instead of hyphenated Americans.

That said, your points about the problems caused by hand-outs and the need for society (government and private) to make it better for folks to establish stable nuclear families than to live on the government are right on.

I also agree that conservatives tend to talk down to "black" America and propose imposing solutions rather than offering tactful suggestions...and policies to back those suggestions up.

That said, I didn't realize you were black until you pointed it out. And, it didn't/doesn't matter to me anyway. You are your ideas...whatever forms them.

You don't get it do you? I am not setting myself apart by race or anything else, but the fact of the matter is that there are problems that the Black community does need to deal with.

The fact of the matter is that Black folks need to find our own solutions to the poblems that bedevil us. We have to find the answers to our crime rate, our lack of educational progress, our broken families. And there is nothing leftist about mentioning the Black community. Why does my saying that phrase or escribing myself as African American, Afro American, or whatever make you so upset? Why are you threatened by it?

Why is wrong for Blacks to have a cultural identity, but it is okay for Italians, Poles, Jews, Japanese, Chinese, etc., etc.? What problem do you have with Blacks attempting to solve their own problems, amongst themselves?
I thought that was the conservative ideal, people taking responsibility for themselves and solving their own problems.

Maybe you need to open your eyes and leave your preconcieved notions behind. Just because a person identifies with his ancestry does not make him any less of an American. Maybe you need to learn to look past outward appearances and inconsequential titles and look at the person you are dealing with.

And some things are unique to, or more prevalent in some communities. If the incidence of teen pregnancy, or broken homes, or crime are not huge problems in your life you don't have any real idea of how it should be dealt with. We Blacks are starting to leave the darkness that Dem policies have smothered us in for all these years, and we have to get up on our feet on our own. Help is appreciated, but condescension is not.

I read your post, and I agree with the idea of multi-culturalism as a Balkanizing agent. No problems there at all.

Where I our ideas split is in reading so much into the use of words. Simply saying that you are an African-American or Cuban-American does not mean that you value one part of your heritage over the other. You can only tell what a man is by how he lives his life, not necessarily by the words he uses to describe himself. Benedict Arnold called himself a patriot, yet he attempted to sell out the patriot cause; on the flip side Colin Powell calls himself an African-American, yet he voluntarily served this nation in conflicts from Vietnam to Desert Storm. Does his calling himself an African-American negate the fact that he willingly put his country and its needs above his own?

And as to Rev. Jackson specifically, I don't know all of his plans and I will wait to hear more of what he says before I pass final judgement on him. But if he is a true conservative, does it matter whether he is a Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, or Green? Why should he have to leave the Democrats to prove he is a conservative, when Zell Miller is routinely lionized for having the courage to refuse to be run out of his party?

Finally, if you feel the need to seek out the feelings of Drs. Sowell and Williams before you decide whether or not to support Rev. Jackson, feel free to do that. As for me, while I respect the aforementioned Doctors, I don't need their opinions on the subject to be able to form mine. I will read what Rev. Jackson has to say, I will judge him by his actions, and then I will decide whether I can go along with what he is doing. That is how it should be, no?

Curious comments. I guess I never considered conservatives as talking down to blacks themselves and telling them what to do. I am not sure that is the intent, but if that is how it is taken, then we need to adjust appropriately.

I do have some questions, though. First what does the black community think need to change? You say it is something the black community needs to workout themselves. Fair enough, to an extent. But what is the message that needs to be send and how do you get them on board?

Perhaps I am mistaken, but when blacks themselves, such as Bill Cosby, speak out in a conservative manner, they get torn apart for not being black. Why is this the case?

You mention the "title" given to blacks, Afro-, African-, Black- Americans. Really who cares, I agree with that, to a point. I fear that the words can mean something and identities can indeed be influenced by names. So, I urge caution on the use of the words. I think you have it correct. It is others who may have an issue.

And to merge this last point with the previous, what does it mean to be black? Celebrating your heritage is great and should be encourgaged. But if being black means that the black community is separate from the American community as a whole and should be treated differently solely because of that should not be.

First you state that your post is in reference to Mr. Jackson's column and the responses to it. Go back and notice how I did not leave a single response to his column.

You state you are not setting yourself apart by race and yet you immediately use the term "Black folks."

Nothing in my initial response shows I'm threatened by your use of the terms Afro-,African-,Black-, whatever, nor did I show signs of being upset.

Addressing the rest of your statements, I never mentioned it was wrong to identify with cultural heritage, I mentioned nothing about teens, crime, broken homes, etc...and yet you responded as though I attacked such issues.

"Maybe you need to learn to look past outward appearances .." You called yourself "Black." So then what is wrong with seeing a "Black" person?

"...inconsequential titles..." Then drop the qualifiers: Black, Afro, African, etc....

"Help is appreciated, but condescension is not." Again, there was absolutely nothing condesending in my original response.

My response was addressing people who want to seperate themselves from all America with prefixes.

I think people who want hyphenated modifiers want the privileges of being American without relinquishing any advantages that go along with being a "minority."

For the biggoted responses you have read. I feel for both you and for Celtic Dragon. But biggots are not just with the right or the left. They are shallow thinking people who have more mouth than brains.

That said, I do have a problem with calling yourself black-American or African-American. When my mother and father took me to Selma in 1965 to march with my brothers and sisters, they did not call me white and I did not call them black. I called them Fred, Alice, or brother.

I don't identify myself to others as English-American and know of very few who call themselves German-American, Jewish-American, or anything else. Yes, some friends of mine go to the Danish American dinners and belong to the club. And I often ask people if their name is French or Algerian or....

It is an aspect of them, but only an aspect. If someone asks about your ancestry yes, you come from African stock. But you are no more an African-American than you are a North Carolinan-American or I am a brunette-American. And that is my complaint with the labels.

Good job on setting it up, Flag.

I must admit, I'm a bit suspicious myself. Not because Reverend Jackson is a Democrat or because he called him a "Son of Africa" or because he was in the same room as the other Reverend Jackson. But because I don't know him. Haven't heard of him before. But, because of this, I'm also willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and the time he needs to fully express his views before I come to a conclusion.

I will say this: Reverend Jackson seems like the kind of guy that I would respect even if I disagreed with him. He seems like the kind of guy that will add to a debate rather than subtract from it, even if I end up disagreeing with him. In short, I think he will end up being a valuable addition to the Townhall family.

Justaguy: You ask some good questions in your post and I will give you the best answers that I can. Please take into account that my answers are drawn from my personal experiences and interactions with other blacks.

I think, and most of the people I talk to think that our first priority has to be to reestablish the bonds of the family. We need to encourage strong, intact families that are giving guidance and safety to our children. We have to stress to our men that they are essential to the health and well being of their children, and that it is not healthy to have fatherless children running around. There has been a celebration of the black mother and a demonization of the black man that has taken place over the years that has convinced both men and women that one is more important than the other. The fact is that a strong community starts with strong families; strengthening the family will go a long way toward starting to deal with the other problems.

As to getting folks on board, I think that more are on board with this idea than you may know. The problem is that the media tends to highlight people that really hold no sway among blacks. The media are the ones that run to Jackson, Sharpton, Farrakahn, and the like because they will give them the soundbyte they want, and will perpetuate the black victim narrative.

With Bill Cosby, just notice that it was not 'regular' black folks that went after Cos, it was the so-called civil rights leaders and academics. And even they could not say he was wrong, because blacks talk about it among themselves all the time. They howled mostly because he aired our dirty laundry publicly, and his ideas threatened the position of the victimologists. In the churches, barber shops, and hair salons there was little disagreement with Cosby; but the media ran to the people that they knew would object and give them a ready made controversy.

As to the black community being seperate, thatis not the aim. There is just a realization that there are problems and challenges that we have faced for generations that we have to deal with ourselves. The respect for our parents, the need to stress education among our children, the establishing of stable supports for our families are things that have to come from inside...they cannot be imposed by outside forces.

Jimmy: My post to you was not in response to every word you said. It was an attempt to further explain things that you seemed not to be paying attention to in your previous post.

In my opinion, when you ask that a person not say that he is black, African-American, Italian-American, whatever the case may be that your are asking him to deny something about himself. maybe you don't see it that way, which is fine; but I am black and just saying that I am American will not change the fact that I am black. Black is not all that I am, but it is a big part of me and I will not in any way deny it, for any reason. I have acepted America for all that it is, so America must accept me for ALL that I am! I do not call myself black to hold on to any "advantages" that come from minority status; I say that I am black because I am! I cant't change it and I am sure as shooting not going to deny it for any reason.

I understand your suspicion, though I think it's more caution than anything else. I am taking a similarly cautious stance until I can get a better take on where the man is coming from so i will withhold judgement until he makes his stances clearer to me.

As for the labels, I still think that they are best viewed on the basis of who uses them, and to what purpose. It is true that some folks use the African-American title to set themselves apart and seek some type of advantage, ala Jessie, Al, and Louis. However the majority of blacks that use these titles to denote a pride in and identification with others of their 'race'. usually there is nothing more to it than that.

What we all need to do is stop pretending that we live in a colorblind world. If any one of you saw me you would note that I am black and I would note that you are white, tere is nothing wrong with that as I see it. So long as we treat each other fairly and with the respect that we have earned, race will not matter. That is what we should be striving for and making judgements about people because of what they call themselves gets in the way of that.

You can tell more about people by what they do and how they live than you ever can by what they call themselves.

Hi! I received an e-mail from the Vernon Robinson campaign yesterday, that one of his donated vans that had 7,000 yard signs in it, was burned beyond repair due to sabotage!
I immediately sent a small donation to help. I'm in Wisconsin, but I see this Congressional candidate as a good Christian, and I felt I had to do SOMETHING to help to right this wrong.
Did you hear about this in N.C? The man has forces working against him, I believe, that REALLY don't want him to win. Is this because he's a black conservative? -- There - I tied it to your subject.

I think your response to me sounds very reasonable. I, as you may have guessed, am not black. So I cannot know from the inside and my questions come from what I see on the media and hear liberals crying all the time. I think these goals are we should all strive for.

I am glad to hear thay they do not speak for most. Unfortunately, as you say, their voices are the ones we hear the most...

IT is ok to acknowledge ones heritage but for me when a person says "its a black thing " I think of evolution believers belief of the different races.I believe that we are all one human race and we all have the same needs .Supporting strong marriages is good for all people. So for me there is no need to state what a person " color" is.

The genetic code for all persons was in the first man...Adam .. we are not descendants of monkeys

I didn't read the referenced column, so I'm ignorant on that score or of the issues in it.

I find it unfortunate that race seems to still be an issue on whichever side of it you're in. I admit I had a very unusual upbringing, being raised in a military family and spending most of my youth in Third World countries where I was the minority. We hung around with our fellow American kids, and didn't pay attention to race among ourselves; many were mixed race, too, as in that post-WW2 era many career servicemen had married foreign-born wives. My Mom's Armenian, for instance.

I always think of the race-pimps as being on the other side of the aisle, exploiting any opportunity they can to keep themselves in positions of influence.

Interesting.

Congratulations on maintaining colorless posture. I had no idea you were black.

Just like there are black things, there are white things. I'm not going to go into my regard for black people, i'm going to assume you are after information leveled from the heart and that there is NO judgment implied here, only a light on the path to brotherhood.

I see Jimmy Carter's point about the hyphen. In your case, with your eloquent statement of what it means to you, i feel no discomfort or threat. This is not always the case. Its a loaded word, like boy or ni**er. In the 60's i saw a young black ball player get hauled away in handcuffs because he tok umbrage at a coach who used the term boys to his team. In the south, being called a good boy is an accolade in sports. But the word has negative conotations that the coach was not aware of. Good will can find a middle ground. My perception is that many blacks are one way. Its human to take advantage of a one up situation, but its not smart or kind. Just as blacks have memories and cherish plans for revenge, so do whites. I read some where when blacks riot they loot. When whites riot they say You're fired". The guys i play ball with call each other ni**er all the time. I don't join in. Why put a possible brick on the path for miniscule gain. I must brag. I had a 19 year old kid tell me in unthinking surprise after a good move "man, you play this game just like a ni**er". High praise. Consideration and openness would seem to be the name of the game.

Looking over the above, i'm seeing one way over sensitive whities too. Whatever. People like you and Skip and the Talladega Airmen and some of the people i worked and partied with while i lived in DC restore my hope for brotherhood and the future of our glorious experiment, our shining city on a hill.

I realize I have come late to this discussion but I would like to remark.

Flagwaver, your remarks on the 'hypenated thing' gives me a new perspective. You are honoring your heritage rather than than putting your race before your country. I respect that, and I wouldn't want to deny you the priviledge. I'd like to point out that 'putting race before your country' isn't the only bothersome thing about it, though. It also an exclusivity thing. When black people say they are African-American, they are (to me, sometimes) seperating themselves from the rest of us Americans. It's a club I can't join.
I don't see anything inherently wrong with that on a small scale. I'm sure that to be black in America is to live an experience that IS seperate from mine. And people often, naturally, want to associate themselves with those that are similar.
But..I don't know. On a larger scale, to make it your official moniker, your title..the thing that you want to be recognized as and recognized for..has always implied to me that you are not interested in finding commonalities with me or with the rest of society that does NOT belong in that club. That you want to remain seperate in any way that really matters, because what you call yourself obviously matters to you. A lot. Nobody, it seems to me, would chose to call themselves by a name that they consider the second most important aspect of themselves. So black people chosing that as their identification has always implied to me that it is far more important to remain an excusive group than it is to identify with the rest of us in meaningful ways.

I hope this adds to the discussion and gives another perspective. As I said, I haven't usually seen the title as a form of respect for heritage, so you have given me a new perspective.

I'd like to remark on some of your other points, but it's LATE. Maybe I can come back later

than i did.

When I hear Cynthia McKinney use the term, I can feel my bones vibrating as she slams her mallet on the wedge. Some people seem to use it to widen the rift in our society and to prevent any healing of our communities.
But two different people can utter the exact same phrase and mean two totally different things.

I've had various friends of the hammite race who didn't want to be refered to as Afro-Americans. One advised me to "stay away" from those who refered to themselves as Afro-Americans as (according to him) they were the staunchest racists of the hammite race.

While employed with USWest, after politically correct racism was practiced, I was refered to as a Nazi by a black homosexual apparently as German is part of the heritage of my family. He became quite threatening when I pointed out to him that the non-German Hitler was indeed a homosexual (as were many of the "top dogs" in the Nazi party while controlled by Hitler). I then pointed out to the person who advised me on black racism that Hitler & Margaret Sanger were turning in their graves as Jessie Jackson was accomplishing what neither of them could do - control the population of the hammite race by promoting abortion. Since that day he has hated Jessie Jackson & all other black pro-abortionists - considering them black Nazis.

Like others commenting here, I had no idea you were black. God bless the Internet, where all you need to be is LITERATE and persuasive to be successful.

I've been watching your posts on Town Hall for a long time, and this is the first time I've been moved to reply. You are extraordinary and I hope you do become a teacher. Your future students would benefit from your perspective on things, and your talent for a logical, persuasive argument.

That said, here's MY perspective on the whole African-American thing. Like several others, I consider the AA label to be divisive rather than inclusive, not to mention the fact that most American blacks would not survive in today's Africa for more than a week or so, because there is no air conditioning, no supermarkets, and no Jessie Jackson....also, most real Africans don't claim American blacks, so why would American Blacks want to claim Africa?

I understand where you're coming from though, and none of us can argue with your life experience, your perspective or your opinion. All of those things are yours and yours alone, so call yourself what you wish and I'd like to call you....smart!

Just remembered something. When ever more than one interpretation is available, choose the one which attributes the highest motives to all. It is wonderful how often they will then make this the accurate one. So i now choose to see Flagwaver's chosen ethnic label as merely a positive acknowlegement of who he is. I could choose to see something devisive, but that would be my problem, not Flagwavers. Thank you all.

Thanks for all of your comments on this thread. This is what debate is supposed to be, the ability to advance different arguments without name calling or personal attacks. To those of you that have shown somw agreement with me, thank you, and for those that disagreed thanks to you as well. It is heartening to see that an issue as explosive as race can be handled in this type of constructive manner. This type of open, substantive discussion is one of the reasons that I am proud to be a conservative!