Kenneth Copeland Is An Embarassment To Christians

I believe Copeland and his ilk are preaching, and many cases, heresy and they are a bad witness to the world.

As you probably already know, Copeland and other were thoroughly exposed as preaching heresy in _Christianity in Crisis_ by Hank Hanegraaff. The documentation is all there.

http://walrus.blogtownhall.com/2007/11/15/god_is_not_a_cosm ic_bellhop.thtml

..I've often asked those that have given to these people,"what in the world are you doing giving to people that drive Porches ('minister' in Grapevine, Texas) instead of cancer research centers or burn units [insert your charity here]?"

I don't claim to know everything about Kenneth Copeland and I certainly understand your concern for the poor. However, what little I do know about Copeland is that he teaches Biblical principles of prosperity. Deuteronomy 28 and Malachi 3:10 are just two examples of what God has to say about prosperity. If an individual applies the biblical principles of giving, the Bible says he will be blessed. I strive hard to abide by these principles and I believe God has blessed me as a result of this. You seem to think that having wealth is sinful, but I believe in many cases it is a testament that one has been generous and applied biblical principles in their life. Solomon was know to have had extreme wealth, almost imeasurable by today's standards. Would you question the justification of his wealth? It seems to me you are playing the liberal game of wealth-envy.

I have no knowledge of The Copeland Ministries; but I knew both of the Copelands in college. Ken was a serious, quiet person, apparently very dedicated to his calling. I would have predicted a different result.

I know the church property well. It was an old World War II marine pilot training base. Before the church purchased it, i flew an L19 out of there many times to make aerial photgraphs for the regional AP and various news organizations. This is choice real estate. Long ago I would anchor my sailboat just offshore in the lake that forms the south boundary.

When did the "church business" exclude the church?

It is plain to see that most folks would rather give to the needy than to those who rip others off. My one response would be to Tom. I agree with you that God blesses people who are faithful to Him but I see no place where Solomon sent out letters begging for money. God blessed him as a result of his close relationship with Him. God promises to provide all our needs but our wants, that is another subject. Far too many today have been influenced by the health and wealth gospel, which is no gospel at all. It says that we are to get as much stuff for ourselves as we can. This is just not biblical.

Mega preachers with ministries that thrive in excess give all Christians a bad name. From expensive suits, to planes, special water and enormous speaking fees all this excess is unholy. Jesus never requested nor wanted any of these things. What does He think of people like this who are using His word for their own good and glory. The prosperity message is way over abundent in the church. The only ones with the prosperity are the ones who preach it. Jesus stated give up all your worldly goods to the young ruler and follow me. He could not. Do you think the Copeland's or T.D. Jakes or Jessie Duplantis or Creflo Dollar could do that? It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven. All these preachers will see and be amazed at who really makes it to the kingdom while they are on the outside looking in. Stating but Lord we did this and that in your name. His reply will be be gone I never knew you and cast them into the lake of fire. This excess is why I do not belong to a church of any denomination. I worship and believe according to the word of God. Try to live the best I can in accordance with the Bible. With God's assistance not any preacher or man.

The meaning of the prosperity message in Deuteronomy is not to make one rich but that God will provide your needs as long as you give to God what is rightfully His. The problem lies in the message preached by those listed above is send your money to our ministry and you will be blessed without measure. Some may feel moved by God, but some feel like the have been ripped off after they gave their money and nothing happened. God never promised riches, monetarily, but our needs would be met hear and our treasures for what good we do in obedience to Him would be stored for us in heaven. That is the true prosperity message.

Keep reading. The word goes on to say "but with God, all things are possible". Surely you are not saying rich people can not get into heaven.

Look, as I said before, I don't know much about Copeland so you may have some validity in regards to him asking for donations. However, if that is your point stick to it. You come across as being envious of the wealthy. I contend that it is God's desire for his children to be prosperous. the message in Deuteronomy is a message of prosperity, not of simply providing for one's basic needs. Again, I point to Solomon (although there are many other examples of prosperous godly men in the Bible). Malachi 3:10 talks about opening the gates of heaven and pouring out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it. That, my friend, is prosperity. I live my life by it and God blesses me. The more I give the more He blesses me.

are soon parted when they send it to guys like Copeland. Ostentatiousness is not one of the fruits of the Spirit.

Do you give to get or do you give to glorify God, even if He does not give back. Would you be as pleased with your situation if you lost everything you possess? Are you as content with little as with much? Huge questions that we must all answer.

I give out of obedience to God. It is called tithes and offerings maybe you have heard of it. You do not have the right to question my motives. God knows my heart. Rather than acknowledging what I am saying is true, it seems you would rather play a game of "gotcha". My point is simply that prosperity is not looked down on by God unless you use that prosperity to do wicked things. You seem to think that prosperity in and of itself is wicked. Do you not see the irony in the fact that one can abide by the principles of the Bible and, in turn, be blessed with prosperity, yet be criticized by fellow Christians for following those very principles. Look, we have our hands full dealing with the people who hate Christians, we do not need to despise other Christians.

I am not saying rich men can't get into heaven, but as the word says it is hard. Because when many rich come to Christ they are required to set aside worldly desires and take the cross and follow Him. That is what the word says. Now in no way did I say it is impossible, just that Christ said it wasn't easy due to the lifestyle that he rich lead compared to what He lived. But many have done it.

I am not envious of the rich by no means. While I have all my needs met, in the world standards I could have more. But it is not Gods will for me at this time, no matter how much I give. I proved that many years ago. I tithed biblically they amount I was supposed to my 1/10th and guess what no large financial blessing, I actually stayed the same. But I prospered in other ways. But also I gave of myself not just my money.

My wife and I gave our time to minister to the youth in the church we were in at the time. We were rewarded by the youth's respect and love for us. They all would do anything for us. When we left that church and moved, as these youth have gotten into their twenties they have made it a point to visit us here in Fl. The change we were able to effect thanks to God in their lives has changed these kids forever. Changed them for the good. That is true prosperity, those young souls belonging to God and having unshakable faith. Being used by Him in that way is better than having all the private jets etc in the world.

When God mentions prosperity in the bible it does not mean money. That is the deception behind the message. That is what is preached only financial prosperity. Nothing is said about spiritual prosperity and our rewards in heaven. As for Solomon he was granted riches for his obedience to God. But even the great wealth of Solomon came at a price to him. He sinned in Gods eyes because of his allowance of idol worship to be in a biblical form of political correctness. He then suffered for that sin. But to say the more you give the more you are blessed monetarily, that is the wrong message to give off.You can give to God not just monetarily but also by action and dedication of your life. These sacrifices are rewarded not just in money as these preachers state, but in peace in ones heart, knowing God, joy in your life and wisdom and understanding God. Being used by Him to effect His causes. Those are true signs of prosperity not how fat the wallet is after tithing.

When you mention "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven" without adding "...but with god all things are possible", the assumption is that you believe a rich man can not get into heaven because it is ,indeed, impossible for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. This is why the disciples asked "Who then can be saved". My point is it seems you, like many others, were trying to manipulate the Word to back up your point that wealth is ungodly.

Your absolutely right. What you described is true prosperity. God bless you for your time and service. But, please remember, God works through people in many different ways. Ministries have to be financed. The church has to be financed. God can and does use the wealth of Christians to bring others into His kingdom. I would also say to you, keep sowing. The law of the farm is clear in the Bible. If you plant a corn seed, you will reep a crop of corn. However, that seed needs to be cultivated and time must pass before the crop is ready.

I am not saying that 'the more you give the more you receive" should be anyone's motivation. My motivation is obedience to God, just like Solomon. Also, just because people give financially does not mean they do not give of their time. You are acting as if the two are mutually exclusive. I give as much of my time as I do my money. I am only trying to make the point that God wants to bless His children. You seem to be annoyed by the fact that I stand on biblical principles. Sowing and reaping is a biblical principle, so what is wrong with that. After all, the Bible is the word of God given to us to use as a manual in our lives. All aspects of our lives.

Fleecing and stupidity go hand in hand. So many Christian viewers give to these indulgent telepreachers because they are bamboozeled by the promise of getting multiple returns for their gifts. How pathetic that these misguided souls ignorantly give so that a preacher, who is more concerned for the luxury he lavishes upon himself than the impact of the gospel message, can continue in a wealthy lifestyle. That their donations from hard earned money paid for his/her $2000 shoes. It is more than a travesty. It is wickedness. When an unbeliever flips the channel to a TBN telethon and witnesses preachers acting like the publisher clearing house, teaching on miracles and God's goodness, and then placing a catch, "if you want your miracle, pick up the phone and send in your thousand dollars." That is insane wickedness. Anyone who defends this behavior by taking scripture out of context is either quite dumb or just as guilty. "Freely you have received, freely give." Jesus warned about this kind of hypocritical greed, but apparently some are not going to get the message until he says, "I never knew you, depart from me you workers of iniquity."

And no, there is nothing wrong with being wealthy, and enjoying that wealth, when it is honestly gained. But remember what Paul the Apostle said, "All things are lawful for me...but all things edify not." 1Corinthians 10:23. And excessive, rich, lifestyles by televangelists does not edify at all.
Give to your church, brothers and sisters, give directly to the poor in your neighborhood, give to those who honestly live humble lifestyles and do the work of God with love, and then you shall be rewarded for your giving.

I am not annoyed Tom. I just wanted to express the falsity of the prosperity message as it is preached by Copeland and others. I agree with you that God uses wealth for His purposes. I just disagree with the teaching that these preachers put out regarding prosperity. I also applaud you for your service and obedience. My whole point is in this message that these preachers preach is the more you give the more you get. What sets people off is when it doesn't happen them they wonder why, because no one told them that God may prosper you in other ways not just financially. I also agree that ministries need money to reach people and function. I just disagree with the excesses like private jets etc. Some of these mega preachers have pre-requsites that must be met before they will even speak. Things like type of hotel, brand of water and temp it must be chilled at, pre payment etc. Did Paul or Peter or Christ do this? No thats why I said what I said before. It seems the prosperity message these people preach is for their own prosperity not their followers. I enjoyed the debate.

I am just now back on line with this blog. I in no way, by my questions, meant to demean you in any way. These are honest biblical questions in dealing with this issue. Is there any need of huge houses, luxury cars etc. in the Christian life? How much of our money do we give to ministries outside our church. Am I hoarding the prosperity that comes to me or am I using it to reach the world with the gospel?
JC Penny and others actually gave 90% of their income and lived on 10%. This is what I mean by generousity. Wealth can be an idol in our lives and wanting luxuries for ourselves can become greed. I have seen firsthand, around the world, the poverty and destitute conditions that fellow believers live in and to have someone like Copeland, who has numerous airplanes and extreme personal wealth, it just smacks of blatant sin. He is being asked to reveal his personal income but is using a lawyer to keep this secret. Why hide it from the eyes of your own supporters and public officials if there is nothing deceptive?

The Copelands do not and should not represent Christ teachings.