MULLAHS BEGONE OR NUCLEAR WAR!

that our own intelligence does not support.

I take very seriously Iran's genocidal rhetoric threatening Israel with extinction.

about the Mullahs is their commitment to the Arab initiative which would bring full recognition to Israel. What you might be overlooking about Israel is that the only Palestinian state they are willing to recognize is a subservient that must be willing to be further divided until eventually, it disappears.

In addition, there is no genocidal rhetoric. There is rhetoric that addresses the current form of Zionism and that should be taken seriously. But there is a vast difference between the rhetoric that exists and one you think exists.

Read the article linked to below and let me know what you think:

http://www.watan.com/en/the-news/569-curt-day-.html

Those nations, like Iran, who are for Isreal's destruction as a Jewish State champion the Arab Initiative which requires the return of more than one million Jew hating, anti-Israel Palestinian refugees. If the "refugees" want to "return" to Israel they will have to take up arms and fight their way in. There is no other way for them.

Your comment regarding the Palestinians as Jew haters is a racist comment unless you can produce scientifically gather evidence supporting your claim.

And, btw, it is the testimony of many activists working in areas like Gaza where the people have been brutalized by the Israeli army that these people simply want peace.

In addition, I have met people from that area with one of them being a born again Christian, who give personal testimony that what you are saying is completely false.

Again, unless you have scientifically gathered evidence supporting your claim, then how you described the Palestinians is racist and since the Palestinians are Semites, your comments are anti-semitic.

Just listen to the Palestinian media or read Pali school books that depict Jews as apes and sub-human swine. The peace that Palis want is "ISLAMIC PEACE." Not your idea of peace, not my idea of peace, not Israel's idea of peace; peace according to Islam, the Koran and Sharia law which means ISRAEL'S EXTINCTION AS A JEWISH STATE. Don't believe me? Then read Hamas's Genocidal Charter. Until the Palis evolve out of their primative, medieval mentality and transend their racism, cultural imperialism and religious intolerance the war continues and thousands more will suffer and die.

Again, where is your scientifically gathered information. To say some hate Jews, would be fair. But you said that all 1 million plus are Jew Hating.

And then you might want to consider the context for those who express hatred for Jews. It is the occupation, the continual confiscation of land and resources, the killing all people including women and children. Suppose we eliminated those variables such as the confiscation of land and water, the killing of men, women, and children, and so forth. What would be the result?

Certainly the killing if Israeli civilians is horrible and criminal. But why aren't you concerned about the killing of Palestinian civilians? Or it at least it seems that you are not concerned. Why find fault with the Palestinians while taking the actions of the Israeli gov't for granted?

When people find fault with only one side, and it doesn't matter which side, it tells me that principle isn't the issue for them, it is gang loyalty.

Consider what Augustine said

"Justice being taken away, then, what are kingdoms but great robberies? For what are robberies themselves, but little kingdoms? The band itself is made up of men; it is ruled by the authority of a prince, it is knit together by the pact of the confederacy; the booty is divided by the law agreed on. If, by the admittance of abandoned men, this evil increases to such a degree that it holds places, fixes abodes, takes possession of cities, and subdues peoples, it assumes the more plainly the name of a kingdom, because the reality is now manifestly conferred on it, not by the removal of covetousness, but by the addition of impunity. "

The context is very clear and very well known: Arab and Islamic Supremicism. Violent Pali-Arab anti-Semitism pre-dated the founding of the Jewish State. Israel's very existence is a crime against Allah and an aggression against Islam and its vision of Islamic imperial restoration. The poor little Islamists, as long as Israel exists they can't restore their ancient empire of evil and oppression.

For me its a war of good verses evil, right verses wrong; freedom, progress, individul rights and the future verses despotism, regression, intolerance and the past.

Do you really close your eyes to reality? THe context started not with any Muslim or Arab supremacy, some of which is here today but is not held by the majority of Muslims or Arabs. The context started with Modern Zionism, of which some forms, from the beginning of its movement, wanted to ethnically cleanse the land of Arabs. And violence and hatred that some have is a response to that stealing of land and desire to remove Arabs from it.

It started in the 1800's by Jews who were so horribly treated by European Christians that they sought a homeland of their own and one in which they would have control and be able to remove non-Jews.

Zionists who want an Arab free Israel are an insignificant and powerless minority inside Israel. They are so despised by their fellow Jews that it is illegal for them to run for the Knesset. Compare that to America where neo-Nazis like David Duke can run for Congress.

Actually you are wrong. That form of Zionism is called Revisionism and it is the form that has held sway since 1948. It certainly isn't 100% free land of Arabs, but Arabs are not recognized as equal, either the Palestinians or Arab citizens of Israel, and it is the form of Zionism that drives the building of the settlements. The building of the settlements require that Palestinians be kicked off their own land.

And historically speaking, this is the sentiments of the father of Political Zionism, Theodore Herzl who wrote about ethnic cleansing, though in nice terms, in his diary while, in public, he gave the impression that he recognized Arabs.

Jewish settlements on the West Bank are built on land that was taken by Israel from the state of Jordan, not from Palestinians; taken in a defensive war against an aggressor. It was the price Jordan paid for it's defense pact with Egypt and aggression against Israel in the 67 War. Those settlements are permanent. Period. If the Palestinians want to steal those lands from Israel then they will have to arm themselves and take it from them. There is no other way.

You are so mistaken. First, much of the land being taken now on the west bank is land in and around Jerusalem. Jordan had no land around Jerusalem. In fact, the West Bank is named after what? The land of the West Bank was part of the original partition of Palestine. You can consult maps of the area at

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/maps.html

Second, you seem so scared to fault Israel with anything seriously wrong. That certainly is not the attitude of many Israelis especially those that work for Gush Shalom, ICAHD, or those working in ISM. All 3 groups show that there is no inherent hatred by the Palestinians. Rather, in all three groups, you see Israelis, Palestinians, and internationals working together in opposing the occupation

Finally, you are certainly missing the parallels that exist between the group you favor and the group you hate. For centuries, even without the Holocaust, European Jews suffered tremendously at the hands of European Christianity. There were occasional truces, but they would be followed by persecution. In the 1800's, some Jews dreamed of a land for Jews because they realized that they could never be regarded as citizens of the European countries they called home. So the emigration and purchase of land started. This was the start of Modern Zionism. Though some Zionist wanted to include the indigenous Arabs, others did not. In 1948, there was a partial ethnic cleansing of Palestine with atrocities committed by both sides--both sides suffered and both sides were guilty. In the end, even with acknowledgment of Arab Citizens but not as equals as was promised in Israel's documents, Jewish domination to one degree or another was established in Israel.

The Jewish domination was a reactive, rather than proactive, one. It was the result of centuries of abuse and persecution. Domination was thought of as bring security. This brings to the group you hate. Those Muslims who want supremacy are simply reacting the same way as the Jews. They want supremacy in reaction to Turkish followed by Western and Zionist domination and abuse. Certainly the majority of Muslims don't seek this domination, but too many do. But for the same reasons that Zionists sought Jewish domination, that is for the relief from oppression and suffering, so you see attempts to establish Muslim supremacy by SOME Muslims.

The idea of establishing supremacy after persecution is a human idea, not an idea that belongs to any ethnic or religious group. It logically, though not necessarily, follow domination because it basically says that the only people you can trust are your own. Examples like Gandhi and King broke away from that pattern bus such examples are sadly too far and few between.

No, the land that has been taken since '48, is the land confiscated after the occupation started which followed the '67 war. And Israel fired first in the '67 war though they didn't need to. Since the '67 war, Israel has confiscated approximately half of the remaining 22% of the land that belonged to the Palestinians, not to Jordan.

Gush Shalom, like anti-Zionist religious Jews and anti-Arab racist Israelis, is a small discredited uninfluential minority in Israel regarded as radical loons and the useful idiots of Israel's sworn existential enemies.

The lands you talk about are "disputed territories." The Palis claim ownership of these lands, most Israelis disagree with them. You're on one side of the dispute, I'm on the other. We are at an impasse, there is nothing more to say.

The three major schools of Sunni jurisprudence believe in Islamic domination and imperialism. Most Pali Arabs are brainwashed with these teachings and cannot tolerate the presence of a non-Moslem state, Jewish, Christian or otherwise, on the Arabian Peninsula. Anti-infidel bigotry and hatred, cultural imperialism and xenophobia, nourished and justified by primitive, medieval, regressive Islamic law, is the driving force behind the Arab-Israeli conflict. Until Arab-Moslems overcome their outmoded beliefs and medieval past regarding unbelievers the conflict continues.

Discredited by whom? See, discrediting others is the foundation of many TH conservative arguments. Instead of using fact and logic to discuss issues, many, though not all, TH conservatives focus their attention and why we shouldn't even consider the issue because of the source.

If you want to avoid the authoritarianism that leads to fascism, then avoid the use of discrediting others as a method of argument because authoritarianism is all about assuming that one side is right and the other side is wrong. Once one assumes, we have no need to think through the issues. All you need to do is to tune into the "authorized" source of info.

Again, the organizations I listed show that Jews and Palestinians can work together peacefully. All 3 organizations were either founded or co-founded by Israelis.

The fictitious findings of Gush Shalom were discredited by the second intefada. There are some Palestinians who do accept Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, but they are in a microscopic minority, not enough for there to be peace now, yesterday, or tomorrow.

Again you are making claims about the Palestinian people that are not backed by evidence. The majority of the Palestinians want peace with Israel. This is not only what polls have shown but is the testimony of activists working in the occupied territories. Israel's occupation against the Palestinians is aggressive including the building of settlements on confiscated land which is a clear violation of international law.

Also, what "fictictious findings" made by Gush Shalom are you referring to? Why do these "findings" discredit everything Gush Shalom does? ANd how do these findings discredit everything that ICAHD and ISM do?

You are right in saying there will be no peace. But that is more due to Israel's aggression. It was Israel who broke the last ceasefire. Their violation occurred last fall. And even when Hamas does not fire rockets, Israel bombs Gaza everyday-- that comes from the personal testimony of activists who work in Gaza.

When will you stop pretending that the groups you are supporting are practicing evil just as the groups you oppose are?